88

America’s Secret Planned Conquest of Russia

by Eric Zuesse

The U.S. government’s plan to conquer Russia is based upon a belief in, and the fundamental plan to establish, “Nuclear Primacy” against Russia — an American ability to win a nuclear war against, and so conquer, Russia.
This concept became respectable in U.S. academic and governmental policymaking circles when virtually simultaneously in 2006 a short-form and a long-form version of an article endorsing the concept, which the article’s two co-authors there named “nuclear primacy,” were published respectively in the world’s two most influential journals of international affairs, Foreign Affairs from the Council on Foreign Relations, and International Security from Harvard.  (CFR got the more popular short version, titled “The Rise of U.S. Nuclear Primacy”, and Harvard got the more scholarly long version, which was titled “The End of MAD?”.)
This article claimed that the central geostrategic concept during the Cold War with the Soviet Union, Mutually Assured Destruction or “MAD” — in which there is no such thing as the U.S. or the U.S.S.R. conquering the other, because the first of the two to attack will itself also be destroyed by the surviving nuclear forces of the one responding to that attack — will soon be merely past history (like the Soviet  Union itself already is); and, so, as the short form of the article said, “nuclear primacy remains a goal of the United States”; and, as the long form said, “the United States now stands on the cusp of nuclear primacy.” In other words: arms-control or no, the U.S. should, and soon will, be able to grab Russia (the largest land-mass of any country, and also the one richest in natural resources).
Neither version of this article mentioned the key reason why nuclear victory is exceedingly dangerous even under the most favorable conditions, which reason is the concept (and the likely reality in the event of nuclear war between the two superpowers) “nuclear winter” — the scientific studies showing that a resulting sudden sharp cooling of the atmosphere after all those enormous explosions would produce a global die-off. America’s aristocracy and its vassal-aristocracies controlling the U.S.-allied nations (billionaires, centi-millionaires, and their top agents in both the public and private sectors) are buying and building deep-underground nuclear shelters for themselves, but they wouldn’t be able to stay underground and survive on stored feedstuffs forever. (As for everybody else, those other people are not involved in geostrategic decisionmaking, and so are being ignored.) However, many of America’s (and associated) elite are paying those bomb-shelter expenses, but none of the West’s elite are condemning the path toward nuclear war that their governments are on. So: buying or building nuclear-war shelters is more acceptable to them than is stopping America’s planned conquest of Russia. The higher priority is to conquer Russia.
A far less influential scholarly journal, China Policy, published later in 2006 a critical article arguing against nuclear supremacy, but that article has had no impact upon policymaking. Its title was “The Fallacy of Nuclear Primacy” and it argued that, “American nuclear supremacy removes the root source of stability from the nuclear equation: mutual vulnerability.” It presented a moral argument: “U.S. leaders might try to exploit its nuclear superiority … by actually launching a cold-blooded nuclear attack against its nuclear rival in the midst of an intense crisis. The professors discount significantly the power of the nuclear taboo to restrain U.S. leaders from crossing the fateful threshold. If crisis circumstances grow dire enough, the temptation to try to disarm their nuclear adversaries through a nuclear first-strike may be too strong to resist, they argue.” The concept of “nuclear winter” wasn’t even so much as just mentioned (much less dealt with) in this article, just as it was ignored in the two that it was arguing against.
The co-authors of (both versions of) the article that had proposed and endorsed nuclear primacy, then published in 2007 (this one also in International Security), a response to that critical article. This reply’s title was “U.S. Nuclear Primacy and the Future of the Chinese Deterrent”. But it had no more impact than did the obscure article it was arguing against.
Thus, nuclear primacy has become U.S. policy, and MAD no longer is U.S. policy (though it remains Russian policy).  The U.S. government is planning to take over Russia (basically, to install a puppet-regime there).  That’s the reality.
Central to the nuclear-primacy concept is that of what’s variously called a “Ballistic Missile Defense” (BMD) or “Anti Ballistic Missile” (ABM) system: a system to disable or knock out Russia’s retaliatory nuclear weapons so that a U.S. blitz nuclear attack won’t be able to be met by any nuclear counter-attack.
As “The End of MAD?” put it: “Russia has approximately 3,500 strategic nuclear warheads today, but if the United States struck before Russian forces were alerted, Russia would be lucky if a half-dozen warheads survived.”
In other words: America’s establishment aren’t necessarily hoping to protect all of the U.S. population from a counter-attack, but are willing to sacrifice perhaps a few million Americans here and there, in order to achieve the intended result: conquest of Russia.
That article then says that a BMD-ABM system wouldn’t necessarily indicate America’s determination to pursue nuclear primacy against Russia, because it could instead be intended purely and authentically defensively, to protect against nuclear attack from Iran, North Korea or some other country.  However: “Other U.S. nuclear programs are hard to explain with any mission other than a nuclear first strike on a major power adversary. For example, the decision to upgrade the fuse of many SLBM warheads (the W76s) to permit ground bursts makes sense only if the mission is destroying hundreds of hardened silos. One might argue that ground bursts could be useful for a variety of other missions, such as destroying North Korean WMD bunkers or remote cave complexes housing terrorist leaders. The United States, however, already has a large number of highly accurate, similar-yield warheads that would be ideal for these purposes.” The article even notes that: “Other analysts have noted that the current U.S. nuclear force looks surprisingly like an arsenal designed for a nuclear first strike against Russia or China.” And, “A group of RAND analysts agrees: ‘What the planned force appears best suited to provide beyond the needs of traditional deterrence is a preemptive counterforce capability against Russia and China. Otherwise, the numbers and the operating procedures simply do not add up.’” So: the co-authors here are claiming to be merely giving a name, “nuclear primacy,” to America’s existing strategic military policy — not to be inventing or creating it. They are, above all, saying that this is the reality now in U.S. policy-making circles; that MAD no longer is.
And their article has, indeed, described the guiding strategic-planning objective not only of the George W. Bush Administration, but also of Barack Obama’s — as will now be documented.
U.S. President Obama has always been saying that the reason why America is installing anti-ballistic missiles (“ABM”s, otherwise known as ballistic-missile defense or “BMD”) in Romania, Poland, and other nations that border (or are near to) Russia, is in order to protect Europe against Iranian missiles that might be aimed against Europe. He says that this is purely defensive, not aggressive, and that what it’s defending from is Iran, not Russia — so, Russia has no reason for complaint about it.
But then, Obama reached his nuclear deal with Iran; and this deal ended, for at least ten years, any realistic possibility that Iran would develop any nuclear-weapons capability — Obama himself emphasized that this was the case; he wasn’t denying it.
So: Obama’s claimed reason for installing ABMs in Europe was now, quite simply, gone. (Not that it had been credible anyway, since Iran didn’t have any nuclear weapons. It was merely a pretext, not honestly a reason.)
Here is how Russia’s President, Vladimir Putin, stated the matter, at that time, during the meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club, on 22 October 2015:

The use of the threat of a nuclear missile attack from Iran as an excuse, as we know, has destroyed the fundamental basis of modern international security – the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. The United States has unilaterally seceded from the treaty. Incidentally, today we have resolved the Iranian issue and there is no threat from Iran and never has been, just as we said.

The thing that seemed to have led our American partners to build an anti-missile defence system is gone. It would be reasonable to expect work to develop the US anti-missile defence system to come to an end as well. [But] What is actually happening? Nothing of the kind, or actually the opposite – everything continues.

Recently the United States conducted the first test of the anti-missile defence system in Europe. What does this mean? It means we were right when we argued with our American partners. They were simply trying yet again to mislead us and the whole world. To put it plainly, they were lying. It was not about the hypothetical Iranian threat, which never existed. It was about an attempt to destroy the strategic balance, to change the balance of forces in their favour not only to dominate, but to have the opportunity to dictate their will to all: to their geopolitical competition and, I believe, to their allies as well. This is a very dangerous scenario, harmful to all, including, in my opinion, to the United States.

The nuclear deterrent lost its value. Some probably even had the illusion that victory of one party in a world conflict was again possible – without irreversible, unacceptable, as experts say, consequences for the winner, if there ever is one.

He called Obama there a “liar,” and that’s a blatantly truthful characterization of the situation.  But Putin missed there saying what’s even more basic for an understanding of what Obama was doing in this matter — and which makes that “lie” from Obama particularly heinous: Putin missed saying that an anti-missile system can be at least as important as an aggressive weapon as it is as a defensive one, because if a first-strike attacker wants to eliminate the defender’s ability to strike back from the attacker’s first-strike attack, then an anti-missile system is the weapon to do that, by eliminating the defender’s missiles before those strike-back missiles can reach their targets. It nullifies the other side’s defense — and to do this is enormously aggressive; it strips the victim’s retaliation.  The whole distinction between offensive and defensive can thus be pure propaganda, nothing having to do actually with aggressive and defensive.  Whether the use will be defensive, or instead offensive, won’t be known until the system is in actual battlefield use.  Only the propaganda is clear; the weapon’s use is not.
So, Putin understated the heinousness, and the danger to Russians, that was actually involved in Obama’s tricks. All that Putin did was to vaguely suggest an aggressive possibility: “It was about an attempt to destroy the strategic balance, to change the balance of forces in their favour not only to dominate, but to have the opportunity to dictate their will to all.” Most people don’t relate to such abstractions as “strategic balance.”
Obama and other agents of the U.S. aristocracy know that their public have been trained for decades, to hate, fear, and despise, Russians, and especially the Russian government, as if it were the Soviet Union, and as if its Warsaw Pact and communism still existed and Russia hadn’t ended its hostility to the U.S. in 1991 (though the U.S. continued its hostility to Russia — that rump remaining country from the former communist empire — and during Obama’s second term the hostility soared).  So, for example, at the conservative website Breitbart, when that statement quoted here from Putin was posted as part of an honestly written and presented article titled “Vladimir Putin: U.S. Missile Defense System Threatens Russia”, almost none of the reader-comments indicated any ability or inclination of the readers to sympathize with the plight for Russians that Putin had just expressed. Instead, to the extent that the comments there were relevant, they were generally hostile, such as:

“Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday he has concerns that the U.S. ballistic missile defense system threatens Russia’s nuclear capability.”

Vlad, its supposed to, its called defense. The only way it could harm your nukes is if they were shot down…………….after you launched them!

 and

How can a defense system threaten anything? Like Obama would attack Russia. That is laughable.

 Most people’s minds are straight-jacketed in bigotries of various sorts, preconceptions such as that a “missile defense” system, and a “Defense” Department, can’t be aggressive — even extremely aggressive and war-mongering.  The first thought that comes to mind about anything that’s ‘defensive’ is that something else must be ‘aggressive’ or ‘offensive’, and that whatever is ‘defensive’ (such as an ABM) is therefore good and even necessary.  That’s thinking, and receiving the term “defense,” like thinking just one move ahead in a chess-game, but this is the mental limit for most people, and every propagandist (such as the people who professionally design propaganda or PR slogans and campaigns) do precisely what Obama and the rest of the aristocracy and their agents do in order to deceive their gulls: they phrase things for one-move-ahead-limit thinkers, like that.  The cardinal rule in the deception-professions is therefore, first, to find people with the desired prejudices, and then to play them as that, with one-move-ahead-limit sales-pitches, which are directed to precisely those prejudices.  This report at the Breitbart site was instead presenting a high-quality news-report, to a low-quality audience, and so the reader-comments it generated were few, and generally hostile.
Obama is a master at deception.  Another good example of this was 26 March 2012, during Obama’s campaign for re-election, when he confidentially told Dmitry Medvedev, “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him [the incoming President Putin] to give me space. … This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility.” Obama was privately communicating to Putin (through Medvedev) that Obama was pushing the ABM installations only so as not to be politically vulnerable to charges from the knee-jerk Russia-haters, Republicans, and that Obama’s fakery regarding the supposed ABM-target’s being Iran was only in order to appeal to yet another Republican bigotry (against Iran), and so Obama was intending to back away from supporting the ABM system during his second term.
But actually, Obama had had Russia in his gunsights even prior to his coming into office.  Two specific objects in focus were Moscow-friendly leaders of nations: Assad of Syria, and Yanukovych of Ukraine.  America’s strategy, ever since 24 February 1990, has been to strip Russia of allies and friends — to leave Russia increasingly isolated and surrounded by enemies.  When Obama entered the White House on 20 January 2009, there already was a plea in the pipeline from the Syrian government for urgently needed food-aid to address the all-time-record drought there, which had decimated Syrian agriculture.  Obama’s Administration never even answered it.  Well before the Arab Spring demonstrations in 2011, Obama was hoping for turmoil in Syria and the overthrow of Assad — lots of starving Syrians would be just the thing.
Moreover, the planning for the February 2014 coup to overthrow the Moscow-friendly democratically elected President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, started in the U.S. State Department by no later than 2011.
So: when Obama told Medvedev and Putin, on 26 March 2012, not to worry about Obama’s intentions toward Russia, he was lying.  He wanted his intended victim to be off-guard, unprepared for what was soon to come.
On Obama’s way out the door, he did two things that significantly advanced America’s ABM-BMD threat against Russia.
On 10 December 2016, ‘Defense’ Secretary Ashton Carter stated, burying it in a speech he gave in Bahrain — site of a major U.S. military base — “just this week, we reached an agreement for Qatar to purchase a 5,000-kilometer early-warning radar to enhance its missile defenses,” and he said nothing more about it, as if this announcement weren’t the bombshell it actually was.  Alex Gorka headlined about that at Strategic Culture, “US-Qatar Deal Threatens Russia: Reading News Between the Lines” and he explained that this system “is designed to be used as an early warning system against strategic offensive assets – something Iran does not possess.”  Near the start of Carter’s speech, Carter had said that he would be talking about “checking Iranian aggression and malign influence, and helping defend our friends and allies,” including Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, and Saudi Arabia.  Gorka noted, “The announced range of 5,000km (3,100mi) by far exceeds the requirement to counter a missile threat coming from Iran,” and, “[t]here is no other reasonable explanation for the choice, except the fact that the AN/FPS-132 can monitor large chunks of Russian territory,” the objective being “to surround the Russian Federation with BMD sites and neutralize its capability to deliver a retaliatory strike if attacked.”
One of Obama’s last actions as the U.S. President was to sign into law a bill that had been quietly passed in Congress, which included a key change in U.S. law that would enable the government to spend unlimited funds on realizing former President Ronald Reagan’s dream of a space-based ABM system, “Star Wars.” On December 22nd, David Willman of the Los Angeles Times, headlined “Congress scrapped this one word from the law, opening the door to a space arms race”, and he reported that the eliminated word was “limited.” Willman explained that, “The nation’s homeland missile defense system is designed to thwart a small-scale, or ‘limited,’ attack by the likes of North Korea or Iran. As for the threat of a large-scale strike by China or Russia, the prospect of massive U.S. retaliation is supposed to deter both from ever launching missiles.” He noted: “The bill awaits action by President Obama. The White House has not said what he will do.” Willman also noted that on an earlier occasion, “the Obama administration criticized the changes in the Senate bill, saying it ‘strongly objects’ to removing ‘limited’ and to placing anti-missile weaponry in space. The statement stopped short of threatening a veto.” But then, the next day, on December 23rd, Willman bannered, “President Obama signs defense bill that could spur new space-based arms race”. Whereas Obama’s public rhetoric portrayed himself as being the type of person who had deserved to win the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize, almost all of his actual decisions in office were the exact opposite — and here was a superb example of that.
Whether Obama’s successor, Donald Trump, will continue with that longstanding (ever since 24 February 1990) plan to conquer Russia, or instead finally end the Cold War on the U.S. side (as it already had ended in 1991 on the U.S.S.R.’s), isn’t yet clear.
This is what happens when what President Eisenhower called “the military-industrial complex” takes over the country, and everything (including the ‘news’ media) serves it, rather than the military-industrial complex’s serving the public.
It fits in with the massive data which indicates that the U.S. government is run by an aristocracy or “oligarchy”, instead of run by people who represent the public — a “democracy.” Obama as President fit right in.


Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of  They’re Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of  CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event that Created Christianity.

SUPPORT OFFGUARDIAN

If you enjoy OffG's content, please help us make our monthly fund-raising goal and keep the site alive.

For other ways to donate, including direct-transfer bank details click HERE.

Categories: empire watch, latest, Russia
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

88 Comments
newest
oldest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Mike Jones
Mike Jones
Feb 2, 2021 10:49 AM

“So long as Esperanto is disregarded, all these things must be.”
“Mr. Britling Sees It Through” by H. G. Wells

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 9:21 PM

……………………….GAMMA’ SOLDIERS…
I wondered why, I asked the sky, how infantry can justify, their peace with war where infants die..in a never-
ending, game of soldiers?
“With a mind half-tracked”, the sky shot back, “by exponent-driven heroism, through atavistic thoughts misgiven to fathers bias in denial..of a never-ending, game of soldiers:
Take uniform and flag and schism, make oath and troth to rags and isms, leave numinous sloughed up in prisons..of the never-ending, game of soldiers:
Dehumanize and demonize, they’re only targets win that prize, you don’t repent you rationalize the never-ending. game of soldiers:
Strike a light ignite that fuse, confirm to peers..ignis fatuus!.. let ignorance be your excuse for the never-ending game of soldiers:
It’s all right son you’ve done your best, pin this tin medal to your chest, good folk are all congratulating, another batch of graduating, fully baked indoctrinated… dead set brainwashed..GAMMA’ SOLDIERS:

Peter A.
Peter A.
Jan 10, 2017 4:02 AM

The U.S. government’s plan to conquer Russia is based upon a belief in, and the fundamental plan to establish, “Nuclear Primacy” against Russia — an American ability to win a nuclear war against, and so conquer, Russia. If the “U.S. Government”, whoever they are exactly (the Pentagon? the P.N.A.C. monsters?), have such a plan, then one can only assume they are either seriously deluded or just plain insane. The very concept of nuclear supremacy is, at base, seriously flawed, due to the very nature of current technologies that assure a retaliatory capability following a pre-emptive first strike, and this fact has been recognised since at least the mid-1960’s. According to most sources, Russia at this time actually has a (slight) advantage in deliverable nuclear weapons, but even if this were not the case and the U.S. had a huge advantage, this demented dream of “conquering Russia” would still just be… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 6, 2017 6:20 PM

Reblogged this on Taking Sides.

Doug Colwell
Doug Colwell
Jan 5, 2017 3:42 AM

StAug, Norman, thank you for a very interesting conversation. You’ve both given me some very nutritious food for thought. And from an Eric Zuesse article! Who could have imagined?

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 5, 2017 6:21 AM
Reply to  Doug Colwell

Was there an Eric Zuesse article about? Oh, my . . . ( 😉 )

essedelendam
essedelendam
Jan 4, 2017 12:38 AM

Without the conquest of Siberia the global empire will fail inevitably.
Carthage Syndrome! Water & Carbon Empire!
http://geoarchitektur.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-carthage-syndrome-water-carbon.html
desert fracking & farming

Peter A.
Peter A.
Jan 10, 2017 4:16 AM
Reply to  essedelendam

Then it will fail, because they’re not getting Siberia. If they make an attempt, their ‘indispensable’ country will be turned into a desert of radioactive, vitrified glass overnight.

missulenny
missulenny
Jan 4, 2017 12:22 AM

It only makes sense when you consider who the ruling US oligarchy are (Js), what they want (world donination), and what they think of the lives of the non-Js (subhuman/snakes/animals according to the Talmud).
Eureka! now it makes sense why a few million western lives is a small price to pay, to overcome Russia. Mr Zeusse never seems to mention this in his articles though.

Peter A.
Peter A.
Jan 10, 2017 4:11 AM
Reply to  missulenny

I really do believe that far more than just “a few million Western lives” would be lost in any nuclear exchange between the U.S. and Russia: there would almost certainly be no one left alive on Earth, even those who managed to find fallout shelters. The occupants of the I.S.S. would be the only ones, and they would have front-row seats to the entire spectacle.
Why did you even mention the Talmud? What does that have to do with the topic discussed?

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 9:30 PM
Reply to  Peter A.

At least there’ll be no more lawns to mow…no prols to mow ’em either.

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 9:27 PM
Reply to  missulenny

A retirement village for expat Refuseniks ?

BigB
BigB
Jan 3, 2017 5:20 PM

Here we go again, my, how the powers that be missed the Russian Bear. In the lull in the Cold War (’91 to say ’15) the controllers in Washington and Westminster (and the other nominal power centres) had to invent an external threat (called variously al Qaeda or Daesh) to keep us in line – but they couldn’t quite carry the clout of Armageddon. As soon as Russia was ready to develop a credible presence on the world stage – the nuclear arms race takes off again – only this time it goes hypersonic. I usually like Eric’s articles, but my impression of this one is that Dr Zeusse needs to up his meds. His quoted policy documents are way out of date; Obama was never a “master at deception” – he was a liar and he took no one in. In the meantime the technology has moved on –… Read more »

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 9:53 PM
Reply to  BigB

…..WHAT’S A NUTATION MUMMY?…
The polar, melted-mass migration, will deviate the earths nutation, and alter plates of isostasy, and inundate all state and nation:
Ice-cubes in rjts’ half-smart glass, ignores an Archimedian art, where melts are not displacements part, but dilettantes should still have heart:
In Hervey Bay there’s whales in May but don’t say, “Global- Warming”..and very soon no snow in June with a more portentous warning..
.That when poles unweigh, then Terra will sway, and you’ll soon get the gist of this.
But don’t run to church when you feel that lurch,
it’s a global, axial, shift:

Ron
Ron
Jan 3, 2017 3:53 PM

Informed people are ushered into a reality where they see that their humanity has set them and their children up for nuclear genocide, as it’s clear this planet is run my psychopaths who have no respect for human life. As RTJ 1211 puts it, we need to take extreme actions against them (the main directors of the insanity do not number more than 10,000) and let them know they and their progeny will be exterminated unless they show convincing alternate plans — letting things progress will be writing our own death sentence. Further, Mr Putin has given many hints about what he will do about the aggression against Russia. He vowed to destroy the BMD system if it ever looks like going live. It is now live. However Russia has in the meantime developed various counter-measures, so perhaps they do not need to keep that vow. But wait! Putin now… Read more »

Bamboo Gatherer
Bamboo Gatherer
Jan 3, 2017 12:29 PM

LOL, considering United States of Mass-Murderers couldn’t even properly handle 3rd world state Iraq properly, only a lunatic would hope to win a war with giants like China and Russia.
All the idiots in the world: SPREAD THE WORD! It is impossible to win any such war, and it will end with loss of BOTH SIDES.
All the intelligentsia in the world: You know what to do! It’d be out of place for me to teach you!

Brian Harry, Australia
Brian Harry, Australia
Jan 3, 2017 9:30 PM

The USA, despite massive military superiority, was unable to beat the Vietnamese, and their efforts to get rid of Mr Assad in Syria(using mercenaries) was thwarted by the Russian Air Force. I think the “gun-slingers” in the Pentagon had better wake up to these facts before they start thinking about war(conventional or nuclear) with Russia.
“History has shown, there are no invincible armies”

jag37777
jag37777
Jan 4, 2017 2:41 AM

Yeah but the US elite won both wars. Victory may not be what you think it looks like.

Brian Harry, Australia
Brian Harry, Australia
Jan 4, 2017 3:48 AM
Reply to  jag37777

America “Won both wars”? Are you a 10 year old?
“We lost sight of one of the cardinal maxims of Guerrilla war. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose, the conventional army loses if he does not win. The North Vietnamese used their armed forces the way the bullfighter uses his cape- to keep us lunging in areas of marginal political importance”….Henry Kissinger.
In case you haven’t noticed, Mr Assad is still Syria’s leader.

jag37777
jag37777
Jan 4, 2017 5:37 AM

No. I’m not a ten year old, sir.
Nor, sir, are you a part of the US elite.
Please take the time to read my comment.

Brian Harry, Australia
Brian Harry, Australia
Jan 4, 2017 6:40 AM
Reply to  jag37777

My apologies. “Elites” sorry, I ‘misunderestimated’ what you said….

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 10:01 PM

Gotta watch the reactionarism eh Brian? might end up being urged to war?

Sm
Sm
Jan 5, 2017 10:28 PM

I think what he meant was that the American elite still made money profiting off the wars fought. They always do.

Brian Harry, Australia
Brian Harry, Australia
Jan 5, 2017 10:32 PM
Reply to  Sm

Of course, he’s right. I just misread him, in haste…….

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 8:56 PM

Talk to some Vietnam vets who have snapped out of their denial and military dogma Brian..they will tell you That America never intended to win a war in Vietnam..that “war”..was an exercise in ordnance consumption. The boogyman of WW111 started after WW11..its buisness model is perpetual war. The raison d’etre of the exponents of the big three is to make a profit and survive the strategies and tactics of the exponent-driven programmes….of a self-culling, global, never-ending, game of soldiers:

Schlüter
Schlüter
Jan 3, 2017 7:58 AM

See also:
“US Power Elite Declared Bio War on the Southern Hemisphere, East Asia and all Non-Western Countries in September 2000”: https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/us-power-elite-declared-war-on-the-southern-hemisphere-east-asia-and-all-non-western-countries-in-september-2000/
All the best for the New Year!
„Thanks to my Readers – Dank an meine Leser“: https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2017/01/01/thanks-to-my-readers-dank-an-meine-leser-3/
Regards

michaelk
michaelk
Jan 3, 2017 7:29 AM

It’s interesting and rather depressing, that our media is full to bursting with stories about the threat we face from terrorism, which, looked at rationally and without emotion, are acts that are actually designed to fit into our news flow, like a hand in a glove; they are media stunts that work. Yet, the real threat from nuclear weapons, which is growing because changes in nuclear doctine are moving the threshold for their use closer and closer, so these weapons are now on a ‘hair trigger’, is almost totally ignored and passes virtually without debate in our media, even though the threat is so much more real and massively more devastating than these terror attacks. You’d think that the journalists, who despite appearances, are humans and have families, loved ones and children, would be somewhat concerned that the cities they live in risk being turned to smoking ruins and that… Read more »

rtj1211
rtj1211
Jan 3, 2017 8:54 AM
Reply to  michaelk

No journalist can work being a journalist, so they are mouthpieces. No lecturer at college can work if they warn students about this. No one in the military can question policy higher up. No politician will be funded to run on a humane platform. The time is ripe for a people’s revolution and the only question is how many US citizens the madmen/women are prepared to kill to keep power. Millions is my judgement. Decide how many children/grandchildren of those in power you will kill to make them back down. Obama has to know his daughters will die. Blankfein must lose his children, so must Dimon, so must every arms lobby company on the Hill. They must be the ones who suffer and it must be suffering that wipes their bloodline out. Stop treating them the way they demand, instead implement US foreign policy against them. See how they like… Read more »

michaelk
michaelk
Jan 3, 2017 3:27 PM
Reply to  rtj1211

Steady on there. Your rhetoric steers very close to the wind, and in times like these too.

StAug
StAug
Jan 3, 2017 4:05 PM
Reply to  michaelk

Indeed. I’m not fond of slinging clichés but one will be “playing right into their hands” if one’s rhetoric slides from expressing mere indignation or contempt to what could, conceivably, be parsed as a call to violence of any kind.

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 4, 2017 3:37 AM
Reply to  StAug

Steven, With all due respect, and don’t take this personally, but if the psychopaths on high can openly threaten and what is worse, even openly plan and prepare and instigate the liquidation of innocent people in their millions, who is inciting who, exactly? Fuck ’em. If they don’t like the fact that I truly want to see them strung up for the crimes that they have already committed, let alone see them prevented from committing even more slaughter, they can kiss my fucking arse. I myself can’t stop them. But “we” in our numbers most certainly can. And “we” need to say it among ourselves, as often and as boldly as we can, to help ourselves shake off what in effect is a profoundly complicit lethargy and apathy. What are they going to do? Arrest me? Have me disappeared? And if they start down that road in their own house,… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 4, 2017 5:16 AM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

Norman! I’m definitely sympathetic to your outlook on this, but we aren’t the ones capable of shutting down websites, are we? They are. I think it’s tactically wiser to make Them work a little harder, and take a little longer, at obstructing us/ our sites because the time is coming, without a doubt. And are They less or more secure if we give them any excuses to shut us down even quicker…?

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 10:18 PM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

Glad to see the contingency plan of, inciting them to violence so we can turn them loose on each other (with put-options on the bullets of course).. in classic, divide and rule strategy, has no effect on you, Norman Pilon?…. Beware mate!, they control the horizontal and the vertical. Protect you and yours by all means but, watch the hands you are being delt…….even in these forums. And perchance…your own shift as a dealer:

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 10:04 PM
Reply to  rtj1211

“Meet the new boss!”………..”Same as the old boss!”

Jason marth
Jason marth
Jan 3, 2017 3:51 PM
Reply to  michaelk

The media people probably also have access to the bunkers and think they will survive themselves!? They have deserted America along with all those elite traitors!! Its really sickening already!! They must be stopped!

Eurasia News Online
Eurasia News Online
Jan 3, 2017 6:33 AM

In short – Caliphate of Chaos and Kingdom of Genocides must be destroyed to preserve life on this planet. How are we going to do that is irrelevant but it will be done.

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 4, 2017 4:49 AM

I disagree. “How” is absolutely crucial. It’s called organization and proselytizing. And as V.L. once put it (I’m paraphrasing), “you can’t have a game without a game plan, nor a game plan without a rule book, eh.”
Until people start coming together in earnest, understanding that stories about the effectiveness of non-violent civil disobedience are just that, stories designed to stymie serious challenges to minority establishment rule, everything remains little more than empty gesture and bluster. Outrage by itself wont do it anymore than a blind populist upsurge.
A certain amount of institutionalized, centralized, collective intelligence to direct and coordinate the actions of such a challenge, though not a guarantee, is a prerequisite for getting the job done. I mean, if people were ever to decide to get serious about this . . .

StAug
StAug
Jan 4, 2017 5:30 AM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

“Until people start coming together in earnest, understanding that stories about the effectiveness of non-violent civil disobedience are just that, stories designed to stymie serious challenges to minority establishment rule,..” I totally disagree with this, Norm. They love violence, they know exactly how to deal with it and they are ready for it… they even encourage it. They know, for example, that the majority of adult Serfs out there aren’t even fit enough to dare being violent for more than a few minutes; it’s not that society at large is full of jungle commandos… lots of the people clever enough to be dangerous, physically, aren’t up to it. What They aren’t ready for is people refusing to participate in “society”… people refusing to go to work and buy petrol and i-phones and so forth. Marching and all that is harmless ceremonial display… but organizing massive targeted boycotts would rock The… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 4, 2017 6:20 AM
Reply to  StAug

Have you ever read Chris Harman? Whoever hasn’t, should, in my humble opinion. A good place to start would be with this chapter from his short book, How Marxism Works (May 1979), and titled: How can society be changed? And if you like what he had to say in that chapter, you might want to read the whole of that small book. “. . . none of the evil bullshit we loathe about the World would be possible if people simply stopped supporting it.” No. Sooner or later, if sufficient numbers balk and disengage, the police, the military, and the judiciary are mobilized against the dissidence, and then boycotts as such, just like strikes or even the wrong government being elected, can be counter-boycotted by the establishment, as exemplified by “factory closures, flights of money abroad, hoarding of necessities, inflationary price rises,” and so on, exactly as is happening in… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 4, 2017 6:55 AM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

Norman!
I’ll have a look!

StAug
StAug
Jan 4, 2017 7:22 AM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

Okay! So, I’ve read that chapter, and, first: I’m not advocating a “reformist” application of strikes. I’m not saying we should hold their feet to the fire until we force a few cosmetic concessions like longer paid vacations or whatever. I’m saying that if we just STOP being The System, The System is history. It requires the collaboration of millions of Serfs to make this thing function. My second point flows from that. When Harmon writes: “The parliamentary electoral system contains built-in secret ballots and cooling off periods. For instance, if a government is brought to its knees by a massive strike, it is likely to say, ‘OK, wait three weeks until a general election can resolve the question democratically.’ It hopes that in the interim the strike will be called off. The workers’ confidence and unity will then fade. Employers may well be able to blacklist militants. The capitalist… Read more »

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 5, 2017 1:29 AM
Reply to  StAug

“Karl Marx, from the Ruling Class, who was nurtured at the very bosom of the Oppressor? Another clever illusion. In our never-ending hunger for heroes, we are too often duped. No movement is possible without leader(s). A movement of Serfs will need to be led by a Serf.” Wow, talk about an ultra-superficial dismissal of Marxism! You talk as though the working class isn’t in need of a concrete class-based analysis of their exploitation, and as though the most important thing about Marx (and, by your allusion, Marxism) is that he was born from the ruling class rather than that he developed a framework pointedly denouncing their very existence. It’s really not that difficult to work out that Marx’s dream wasn’t for the workers to prop up Goldman Sachs. Your criticism might hold some validity if Marx only wanted the workers to push for some mild reforms while staying under… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 5, 2017 3:07 AM

Nice!

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 5:29 AM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

More like boilerplate, Norm. Do you know anything about Karl’s admiration for the ideas of Charles Darwin, btw….? Interesting period, the mid-19th century. We’re still living with so much of it.

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 5, 2017 5:40 AM
Reply to  StAug

Why don’t you enlighten me?

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 8:55 AM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

Who wrote the following, Norman? “We are firmly convinced that it is not the practical Attempt, but rather the theoretical application of communist ideas, that constitutes the real danger; for practical attempts, even those on a large scale, can be answered with cannon as soon as they become dangerous, but ideas, which conquer our intelligence, which overcome the outlook that reason has riveted to our conscience, are chains from which we cannot tear ourselves away without tearing our hearts; they are demons that man can overcome only by submitting to them.” Or, no, forget that for now. Let’s go after a less-revered figure… maybe it will be easier to see, then… Andreas Gottschalk (“He was a member of the Cologne community Communist League. He was an exponent of the “Left” sectarian tendencies of the German working class movement.”): “In Cologne itself, Gottschalk headed a very large workers’ association—something like every… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 5, 2017 3:11 PM
Reply to  StAug

You write: Norman, you wrote (with no reply button left, above): “Why don’t you enlighten me?” That’s a very familiar rhetorical sneer there, Norm. But I wrote that in response to a question you put to me: “Do you know anything about Karl’s admiration for the ideas of Charles Darwin, btw….?” My question to you can be interpreted in one of two ways: a) that no, I don’t know about Karl’s admiration for the ideas of Charles Darwin, at least not in terms of the possible relevance of “that” to what you seem to be wanting to imply about Karl, namely, that he’s some kind of bourgeois agent set upon disrupting and demobilizing the efforts of the working class to rid itself of the parasites ruling over it; or b) I do know, but only want to set you up to engage in a bit of trolling with you. From… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 5:21 AM

It was “Ultra Superficial” because it was a sentence long. As I said: I’m not going to go into all that here. It’s as pointless as arguing with Jehovah’s Witnesses. I just happen to be fascinated with Revolutionaries who set out to destroy the Established Order… yet were shown astonishing clemency by The Powers That Be. You know… like Marx, Hitler, Castro…?
“but we’re talking about someone who actively sought to rouse workers for their complete emancipation against the capitalists.”
Yes, because the stated goal is always the actual goal! Laugh. Sweet.

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 7:22 AM
Reply to  StAug

Norman, you wrote (with no reply button left, above): “Why don’t you enlighten me?” That’s a very familiar rhetorical sneer there, Norm. I’m not going to waste any more of the precious hours of my life laboring over the crafting of sacrilegious comments the great bulk of which Believers will skip over or deliberately misread in order to preserve their cherished beliefs. You’re “radical” and “dissident” to the extent that you question the things that “radicals” and “dissidents” are schooled (and allowed) to question, but, do you ever question who first schooled you in your “radical beliefs”? I mean, I think you and I can both agree that Believers in Chomsky-Style Radicalism, with their 9/11 Denialism, are being led down a particular path for a particular reason, right? Is it possible they’re not the only ones…? Our Oldest Beliefs are the ones we cling to most tenaciously. This applies not… Read more »

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 5, 2017 10:00 AM
Reply to  StAug

“Yes, because the stated goal is always the actual goal! Laugh. Sweet.” Using this “logic”, if it can be called that, everyone is an agent of the “powers that be”. However, you ignore that the “powers that be” (the capitalists and their state) have fought Marxism bitterly for decades, with invasions (the imperialist attack against Bolshevik Russia, which sought to “strangle the Bolshevik infant in its cradle, as Churchill put it), war, economic strangulation, propaganda, an arms race and coups, but from this you’re somehow extracting a lesson about Marx being an agent of the people he provided a concrete systematic analysis of. Laugh. Sweet. “Do you know anything about Karl’s admiration for the ideas of Charles Darwin, btw….?” Which ideas of Darwin’s in particular? And why should we lament this? You don’t say; you just present Darwin as someone we’re supposed to dislike. Marx did celebrate Darwin’s theory of… Read more »

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 5, 2017 10:28 AM
Reply to  StAug

“Yes, because the stated goal is always the actual goal! Laugh. Sweet.” On this again, I should also mention that it cravenly ignores that many of Marx’s followers put this into actual practice – the Bolshies executed the Russian royal family and held the capitalists at gun point, while the Chinese communists booted out the comprador bourgeoisie and feudal landlord relations embodied in the form of Chiang Kai-Shek’s regime and its collaborators – and wasn’t simply putty to be molded into whatever shape the rulers desire as you snidely. You don’t have to LIKE what happened in Russia or China, you simply have to acknowledge that a class of privileged exploiters were forcibly ejected or put in front of a wall. This lineage of theory to action provides concrete examples of the stated goal being the actual goal. No surprise, really, when you consider that Marx hailed the Paris Commune… Read more »

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 6, 2017 9:36 AM
Reply to  StAug

“Your latest comment is so full of weird logic that I can’t even begin to untangle it, and after this I’m done even trying.” No, this describes how I felt about your post, with its weird as hell belief that Marxism is a capitalist ideology and conceptual framework. “Uh… obviously? Che wasn’t a mole, Fidel was.” Errr…but Che was more of the Marxist, and Marxism, according to you, is itself something conceived of and deployed in a “mole” role. Also, there’s no evidence whatsoever that Fidel was a mole. The US initially thought he was going to be just another bourgeois nationalist they could bend to their will; when they found out that he was more MARXIST than he had been letting on, the assassination attempts and terrorism commenced. Again, this doesn’t jive with your conception of Marxism as a Trojan Horse. If flies violently in the face of it.… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 5:31 AM

“Also, who said that “Marx” was going to lead the “serfs”?”
Well I certainly never said that anyone did. Ah, the beloved Strawman maneuver. Yawn.

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 5, 2017 10:04 AM
Reply to  StAug

“Also, who said that “Marx” was going to lead the “serfs”?”
No one did, so why bring him up a dead guy in the first place? That’s my point. Someone who has READ Marx might well lead the serfs. If that’s what you’re disputing, then be clearer next time.

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 11:56 AM
Reply to  StAug

@Sorry Not Buying It “You don’t have to LIKE what happened in Russia or China, you simply have to acknowledge that a class of privileged exploiters were forcibly ejected or put in front of a wall. ” Naive reading. As if all capitalists, across all national boundaries, represent one mutually chummy collective of like-minded entities: would you be shocked if Apple were delighted if a calamity befell Microsoft? Can you imagine any circumstance under which Warren Buffet might be delighted to see George Soros put in front of a wall? I can. This generally naive reading of yours… this sort of Sunday School Effect… like children reading from The Bible… is the problem. It’s not natural… I think you’ve been trained NOT to read between the lines… to take a text’s surface as Gospel. The real question would be: in what way did Marx fuck up or in some way… Read more »

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 6, 2017 6:27 AM
Reply to  StAug

“As if all capitalists, across all national boundaries, represent one mutually chummy collective of like-minded entities: would you be shocked if Apple were delighted if a calamity befell Microsoft?” Naive reading, as though capitalists didn’t share certain fundamental class interests related to preventing the workers anywhere from rising up and threatening capitalism more generally by spreading class-based understandings with an explicitly internationalist call (it’s not for nothing that the bourgeoisie has often referred to Marxist revolutionary politics as a “virus” that must be “inoculated” by force against or reformist accommodations with labor). “Workers of the WORLD, unite!” was Marx’s cry, not “Workers of [particular company or country] unite”. The workers in the former British Empire were part of the world. The workers in England were part of the world – and the rulers there would have met a less than happy fate if the English proletariat had succeeded in carrying… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 6, 2017 7:54 AM
Reply to  StAug

@Sorry Not Buying It (can’t find any more reply buttons) Your latest comment is so full of weird logic that I can’t even begin to untangle it, and after this I’m done even trying. “So you’re saying that “the powers that be” “allowed” HIM [Che] to be killed, even though he was MORE hostile to the capitalist system than Castro and MORE in tune with Marx’s basic points.” Uh… obviously? Che wasn’t a mole, Fidel was. Che is the one who died. Difficult to comprehend? Yes, TPTB wouldn’t particularly care for any guerrilla who was genuinely fighting for Marxist principles, no. And my argument is that if Marx’s actual goals had been consonant with his stated goals (and lined up with the ideal of Marxist principles as stated), things would have been very different for both Marx and the world. It’s not a complicated paradox… it’s the paradox of The… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 11:27 AM

There’s an interesting book you should read, by Jonathan Sperber, but you have to read the contradictions it highlights as telling (as in Real Life), rather than anomalous (as in hagiography), to get the most out of it. “Karl Marx: A Nineteenth Century Life”. It’s just one door in. Also, read Marx’s collected quasi-journalistic writings for the bourgeois American newspaper the New York Tribune… in some passages, Marx’s project (alienating the bourgeoisie from the proletariat by scaring his readership… the bourgeoisie) is quite striking. But here’s a quote regarding the Sperber book: “In a speech to the Cologne Democratic Society in August 1848, Marx rejected revolutionary dictatorship by a single class as “nonsense”—an opinion so strikingly at odds with the views Marx had expressed only six months earlier in the Communist Manifesto that later Marxist-Leninist editors of his speeches mistakenly refused to accept its authenticity—and over twenty years later, at… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 12:31 PM
Reply to  StAug

“No doubt a lot of other dissidents were being shown similar “clemency”, as were people of your ideological take, which by your logic must mean that you’re being “nurtured at the very bosom of the oppressor” (yes, I know, it’s always someone else). ” If you’re suggesting that I come from a family of wealthy industrialists (like Marx himself)… nope. Your “logic” regarding my logic is flawed by your need to win a comment thread battle. I was far from nurtured by the oppressor: I was demonized at birth as a non-white Serf. Next…? Re: “Clemency”: I have not known any historical cases in which real “enemies of the state” weren’t summarily executed or jailed for life or so thoroughly smeared that they were utterly neutralized. Name one and then let’s have a CLOSE look at the project. Nobodies like us are pretty safe. Controlled Opposition like Chomsky (or Amy… Read more »

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 6, 2017 8:12 AM
Reply to  StAug

“There’s an interesting book you should read, by Jonathan Sperber, but you have to read the contradictions it highlights as telling (as in Real Life), rather than anomalous (as in hagiography), to get the most out of it. “Karl Marx: A Nineteenth Century Life”. It’s just one door in.” Contradictions abound in all areas of life and across all ages, and will persist for all of human existence. Marx’s contradictions are telling – of a man living in a particular historical context. Acknowledging this, however, should not commit me to buying into your flights of fancy painting Marx’s focus on class relations and conflict as being conducive to making him loved by the bourgeoisie, an unhinged and preposterous notion if ever there was one. If the bourgeoisie are as farseeing, cunning and jealous of their interests as you allude to, they’d surely know that Marx’s focus on class didn’t only… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 6, 2017 7:18 AM

Thank you! And brilliant, by the way, each and everyone of your comments, down to the last!

StAug
StAug
Jan 5, 2017 4:18 PM
Reply to  StAug

@Norm
“Now what am I supposed to think, Steven? ”
I should only hope that your curiosity might be piqued, Norm. None of the sentences I quote are supposed to represent the entirety of the case I think can be made. Just food for thought. Nothing more or less.

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 6, 2017 7:33 PM
Reply to  StAug

Steven, Quotes are fine if either you yourself contextualize them so that your reader can get a fix on the point(s) you are aiming at by means of them, or they very obviously and logically merge as elements in an ongoing exchange as supports for some contention being upheld. In this respect, your allusion to Darwin and your two quotes fell well short of your intended mark. And by the way, if Marx admires Darwin, it is exactly as Sorry, Not Buying It put it, that Darwin’s theory dispensed once and for all with the metaphysical mystification of teleology in both of the disciplines of natural and human history, and not, as you seem to have wanted to imply, because he understood it could be leaned upon as a perverse rationalization to justify the brutal neglect and oppression of the working class in the name of profits. To insist otherwise… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 6, 2017 11:59 PM
Reply to  StAug

Norm, like far too many comment thread warriors, you make the classic errors of A) making common cause with the first bog-standard (and doctrinaire) commenter who agrees with you and B) you pad your arguments with spurious appeals to sentiment… very much like The Normals who shut down discussions about Sandy Hook by claiming any such discussion is “offensive/ outrageous/ intolerable” because “children died!” But what if no children died? Which question being the point. Too bad if it’s just too, too much for you to bear, Norm! You’ll get through it. So your embarrassingly mawkish “To insist otherwise betrays either a willfully malicious distortion or an ignorant incomprehension of the spirit of what Marx actually committed to print, a deeply humane concern for the plight of all of the wretched victims of capitalism” … doesn’t do anything to dispel the question: was Marx’s project what he claimed it to… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 7, 2017 2:13 AM
Reply to  StAug

Bye, bye, Steven. I’ll miss you.
I’ll be sure to keep your advice about financing in mind, but above all, the criteria by which you have reliably and habitually come to differentiate between authentic and inauthentic revolutionaries, that only the murdered ones were ever truly worthy of being followed, leaving all who yet live or have died of natural causes deserving of only contempt and mistrust, for somewhere in this prescription of yours, it’s almost as if an irony was lodged, as well as an admission on your part that maybe, just maybe, the way forward might indeed entail having to confront a ruling class that does not scruple to murder. So you see, in one respect at least, it’s almost as though we saw eye to eye.
–N

StAug
StAug
Jan 7, 2017 8:38 AM
Reply to  StAug

I’m done with the topic of this flamewar, not the OffGuardian, Norm! You’ll see me commenting on other threads, I’m sure.

Sorry, Not Buying It
Sorry, Not Buying It
Jan 7, 2017 11:20 PM
Reply to  StAug

Wow, talk about a sulky retort! Naively, I actually wasn’t expecting that, but I have to say that I’m impressed in how easily you’ve given up. I noticed that you didn’t address a single thing I wrote in my last couple of posts. You just threw a tantrum where you proclaimed that you have “more interesting” things to do than to be engaged in a debate with “a couple of soi disant Communists over Marx”. But..but…I thought you were hear to disabuse us of our erroneous notions about Marx? Could please tell us what you have in mind that’s “more interesting” than that, given your admitted “irrelevance” and intellectual nihilism, and concession that “probably half” of what you’ve said is “wrong”? “Great slogans you’ve got, though! Those slogans plus a nickle (as we used to say) will buy you a nice cold cup of Kool-Aid.” Again, you whip out your… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 4, 2017 10:17 AM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

“No. Sooner or later, if sufficient numbers balk and disengage, the police, the military, and the judiciary are mobilized against the dissidence, and then boycotts as such, just like strikes or even the wrong government being elected, can be counter-boycotted by the establishment, as exemplified by “factory closures, flights of money abroad, hoarding of necessities, inflationary price rises,” and so on, exactly as is happening in Venezuela and as has happened time and again in history.” Doing that to Venezuela is one thing… but a paralyzing, long-term, nation-wide walk-out at the very heart of the Empire is something very different, I think. In any case, any blanket retaliation They could mount against people striking/ boycotting/ opting out They could just as soon (or much sooner) unleash against your violence-based solution as well. Of course, either way, one couldn’t expect Them going without a fight. But being that Their military (domestic… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 4, 2017 4:15 PM
Reply to  StAug

Hi Steven, I’ll briefly address both of your comments here: You write: “…he’s not really arguing against the effectiveness of the concept I propose, he’s arguing against the concept as it might be applied within the range of certain limits: how many Serfs and for how long.” Actually, he very much is arguing against the idea that the ‘system’ can be challenged beyond a few cosmetic changes on the expectation that the establishment will not ‘react’ with the instruments of violent repression that are already in their hands,i.e., the police, the army, the air force, and the navy. That’s the lesson, for example, to be drawn from Chile, the reason why that ‘peaceful by-the-ballot revolution’ failed (to quote Harman): “The experience abroad is the same. In Chile in 1970, the socialist Salvador Allende was elected president. People claimed that this was a ‘new way’ to move to socialism. Three years… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 4, 2017 9:00 PM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

Norm! We could go around and around on this, and that would serve no purpose… we simply fundamentally disagree on a few points. But that’s no problem as long as we’re not working together! Laugh. But I’d like to clear this one up: the last thing I believe in is the possibility of “changing The System from within”. Certainly not in ‘peaceful by-the-ballot revolution’. But I also don’t think you’ve shown, really, that The System (in the US, say) can somehow continue to control/ oppress anything if no Serfs continue, internally, to support it. The “King” is a pantomime head because “he” is powerless (in every sense) without Serfs as agents asserting the King’s will upon other Serfs. Kings aren’t magical beings… yet. In a hundred years maybe they’ll each carry a Special Button in a fancy briefcase for manifesting Kingly wishes without Serfs having to do the dirty work.… Read more »

StAug
StAug
Jan 4, 2017 9:02 PM
Reply to  StAug

erratum: “misled”

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 4, 2017 11:44 PM
Reply to  StAug

Well, we agree and don’t agree. Power as inhering in psychological operations has to do with indoctrination, inculturation, education and propaganda. That certainly is one facet of it, and we both agree that any way forward must take that aspect of social control into account and attempt to devise appropriate ideological counter-measures. That’s where argument and counter-education and counter-information have a role to play in any strategy of resistance. But ‘power,’ social control, isn’t all just what exists and plays out in the realms of the ideological or cultural. Institutions matter, i.e., organizations implying varying degrees of disciplinary adherence to assigned tasks make the difference between group actions that are effective and those that aren’t. At any rate, he state, in the effectiveness of its organizational structures, is resistant to both external and internal ideological disruptions, and its repressive arms in the form of the military, the police and the… Read more »

pavlovscat7
pavlovscat7
Jan 23, 2017 10:40 PM
Reply to  Norman Pilon

And when you are king?..what does dominion do with dialectical materialism?

ragheadthefiendlyterrorist
ragheadthefiendlyterrorist
Jan 3, 2017 5:18 AM

There is a fundamental misconception in this plan; it is the fact that – no matter what the mass murdering monster in the White House fantasises – eradicating Russia’s arsenal will be impossible, simply because land based immobile missiles are supplemented by submarine and air launched, as well as mobile land based missiles. Also, as Arthur C Clarke pointed out as long ago as 1986 in a critique of Reagan’s Star Wars, it’s easier to jam and evade anti missile defences than it is to destroy missiles. Also, as he also pointed out, since nobody wants to waste expensive missiles, they’d be “salvage fused” – triggered to explode if attacked. What do Obama’s European slave colonies think of the idea of hundreds to thousands of Russian nuclear warheads exploding on their cities? (And that’s not even mentioning the Dr Strangelove option of defence; I hope everyone’s getting ready to eliminate… Read more »

Bob Harvey
Bob Harvey
Jan 3, 2017 2:44 AM

Russia also has rail mounted ICBMs. I presume these cannot all be located and destroyed in a first strike. Then, there are the multiple re-entry ballistic missile systems. Can’t see you how they can be well-defended against. Similarly, decoy missile launches could be effective in using up Western defences.
It seems that submarine launch of nuclear weapons is going to be virtually impossible to protect against. They won’t be eliminated in a first strike, and can hang around as long as food lasts (6 mos+) before launching their strike backs.
Most scientists thought Reagan’s Star Wars approach was impossible. Has this really changed?

MrGermany
MrGermany
Jan 3, 2017 2:16 AM

Let us not forget – Israel would also “love” to nuke Iran – off the table.
… to rebuild their temple and god knows what else. take over the world… whatever.
This is so nasty and wrong and evil and satanic – i just hope Russia’s Military can develop it’s advanced new stealth-nuclear cruise missiles fast enough (they said 2020) to keep those crazy power-addicts from sacrificing 50-80% of mankind.
and let us also not forget… if you drop a nuclear bomb… this place will be inhabitable for HUNDREDS of years. Just look at Chernobyl – it is still not inhabitable.
So if mankind is stupid – it is solely our problem – the universe and nature will not care about such “clever” species going extinct because of their own “cleverness” = suicidal stupidity…

MrGermany
MrGermany
Jan 3, 2017 2:35 AM
Reply to  MrGermany

PS: Germany is not allowed to help Russia – whatever the US embargoes – stupid Merkel is embargoing as well… after “showing up” with Putin at Car shows. An US-BigBrother is watching you. http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/putin-visibly-amused-by-topless-femen-protest-in-germany-a-893128.html
… while at the same time giving billion-usd-worth-nuclear-capable-submarines to ISRAEL.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/israel-deploys-nuclear-weapons-on-german-submarines-a-836671.html
… which they loaded in 2012 with nuclear warheads…. mankind is truly insane. thanks israel – you are contributint MASSIVELY to that. Yeah i say sorry for my grand-daddies holocaust – (he was actually not involved… but involved into the offensive against Russia… and many more insane operations) – but maybe we should look closer at the Bankers and Wall-Street and Profiteers of all this madness…

John's Aghast
John's Aghast
Jan 3, 2017 2:42 AM
Reply to  MrGermany

Don’t forget, its not ‘habitable’ either, or is that what you meant?

Mixasik
Mixasik
Jan 3, 2017 4:39 AM
Reply to  MrGermany

If you look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, people still live there. What they fail to mention in this article is that there’s a strong possibility that Russian nuclear power plants might fail to shut off automatically and/or they might get destroyed in an attack. At the same time few remaining russian subs could have their rockets aimed at US nuclear power plants to maximize the fallout.

Jim Porter
Jim Porter
Jan 2, 2017 11:02 PM

The technology of nuclear weaponry is quite old these days (albeit very powerful) and quite expensive and I saw a speech by Putin about this. He was saying that Russia had decided long ago that it could not keep up with US spending on nuclear and had started to look into other ways to defend against nuclear attack. He seemed quite happy with what they have to neutralise the apparent imbalance with a different avenue of technology. He could be bluffing or maybe not – do you feel lucky, punk?

Arrby
Arrby
Jan 2, 2017 10:59 PM

This was very interesting. The policy shift is enormous and something we the people should shove in the faces of our ‘leaders’ who yammer on about national security. Nothing shows more clearly what they mean by that than this sick game playing – riches for the strongest – that is played at the people’s expense. They are literally planning to sacrifice people, like so many pawns, in this demonic geopolitical game.
This article, I think, goes into my blog’s list of Important Articles By Others.

Arrby
Arrby
Jan 5, 2017 2:13 AM
Reply to  Arrby

an aside: “‘Comments on Eric Zuesse’s Christ’s Ventriloquists” – http://bit.ly/2jbSbte

Frank
Frank
Jan 2, 2017 10:58 PM

I think military strategists should be compared to economists; they both tend to lay down finely detailed plans which nearly always come to grief when they are tested in the real world. To quote Robbie Burns, ”the best-laid plans of mice and men oft gang aglay.” In a similar vein, it was the German military strategist Helmuth Von Moltke who pointed out that “No Battle Plan Survives Contact With the Enemy”. History is littered with all these grandiose and vainglorious battle plans which more often than not end in disaster for the planners. They always seem to miss the obvious flaws, overestimate their own abilities and underestimate their opponents. Let’s have a look through the history books. in 1916 the British and French high command decided on a huge push to finish off the German Army on the western front. This became known as the battle of the Somme, the… Read more »

Ray Ross, Jr.
Ray Ross, Jr.
Jan 3, 2017 1:56 AM
Reply to  Frank

Amen to all comments. Economic development with Russia and China and military co operation with them to remove radical ideolgies would be so much more productive for our global future. However, the current bankrupt financial system wants war rather than give up its power grip on nations.

MrGermany
MrGermany
Jan 3, 2017 2:24 AM
Reply to  Ray Ross, Jr.

then we – the people – should move fast – to become independent from this evil-monetary system… create your own system – try hard to grow your own food 2017 – purify your own water – and say “fuck you” to the USD and € imperialism. The only way how they can not afford to pull off what they are about to do… NATO just got a new HQ… wtf?

Anna Zimmerman
Anna Zimmerman
Jan 3, 2017 12:08 PM
Reply to  MrGermany

Whilst I totally agree with you on the need to detach as much as possible from a dysfunctional system (and this excellent article only discusses one aspect of the dysfunctionality) there are signs that the US government is beginning to persecute the ‘prepper’ community for exactly the reason that it represents a threat to its power. See https://www.sott.net/article/291196-Government-officials-all-over-America-are-cracking-down-on-preppers. Of course this is not a reason to stop – it is a reason for encouraging more people to join the cause. There is still (some) safety in numbers.

Norman Pilon
Norman Pilon
Jan 4, 2017 5:07 AM
Reply to  Anna Zimmerman

Hmm. What happens to all those nations that either are independent or are on their way to becoming independent?
Do you believe that the empire would permit people in significant numbers to claim their independence from the system while it yet existed? That’s why, if people are ever to gain something resembling freedom, the “system’ must fall.

Brian Harry, Australia
Brian Harry, Australia
Jan 4, 2017 4:01 AM
Reply to  Frank

“Helmuth Von Moltke who pointed out that “No Battle Plan Survives Contact With the Enemy”.
That reminds me of Mike Tyson. “Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face”