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	Comments on: The story of Charlottesville was written in blood in the Ukraine	</title>
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	<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/</link>
	<description>because facts really should be sacred</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:53:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Norman Pilon		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38705</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norman Pilon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 22:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38705</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38701&quot;&gt;Christopher Barclay&lt;/a&gt;.

Will Christopher Barclay make good my request, I wonder, or will he be content with having merely cast his racist “white man” aspersion?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38701">Christopher Barclay</a>.</p>
<p>Will Christopher Barclay make good my request, I wonder, or will he be content with having merely cast his racist “white man” aspersion?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Norman Pilon		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38704</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norman Pilon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 19:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38704</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38702&quot;&gt;Paul&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;I’m not sure what point Rehat1 is making here.&quot;
A certain tribe is evil.  It is behind every single intrigue, war and destabilization currently under way anywhere in the world, exactly as it explains everything bad that has ever happened in the past.
You now know the only thing you need to know to understand absolutely everything: one tribe, one world, one conspiracy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38702">Paul</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m not sure what point Rehat1 is making here.&#8221;<br />
A certain tribe is evil.  It is behind every single intrigue, war and destabilization currently under way anywhere in the world, exactly as it explains everything bad that has ever happened in the past.<br />
You now know the only thing you need to know to understand absolutely everything: one tribe, one world, one conspiracy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Norman Pilon		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38703</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norman Pilon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 16:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38703</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38701&quot;&gt;Christopher Barclay&lt;/a&gt;.

Do explain the difference between a &quot;white&quot; man and a &quot;black&quot; man to me.  I mean, the &quot;essential&quot; difference between the two.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38701">Christopher Barclay</a>.</p>
<p>Do explain the difference between a &#8220;white&#8221; man and a &#8220;black&#8221; man to me.  I mean, the &#8220;essential&#8221; difference between the two.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38702</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 16:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38702</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38699&quot;&gt;rehmat1&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m not sure what point Rehat1 is making here. The fact that Ukraine was widely involved in the murder of Jews was well known and dated back to the 19thC. Perhaps the most telling account is that of the Police Chief of Odessa boasting he had himself killed thousands of a Jews as they fled the city naked and on foot in 1941. Tens of thousands were killed. The area was at the time under the occupation of Romanian forces and according to some it was on the insistence of the King and the Catholic Church that the police chief and colleagues were arrested for mass murder and imprisoned in Romania for some months. The Romanian authorities forbade anti Jewish programs. The police were later released after German pressure. It is also well known that killing of Jews in places like Lviv started in 1941 before the German Army even arrived! 30,000 Jews were massacred on that single occasion. Ukrainian Auxiliary police largely manned the Extermination Camps in Poland. The large scale of killing of Poles especially in Western Ukraine goes  unremarked on today, it no doubt being a &quot;sensitive&quot; subject. Ukrainian Nationalists were still fighting a terrorist war against the Red Army in the 1950&#039;s although many ended up in Canada and the US where their descendants are important  politically and as can be imagined were delighted by the 2014 Kiev coup and had helped fund the Maiden &quot;protesters&quot;. Is it now argued Ukraine isn&#039;t deeply anti Semitic? Phillipe Sands book East West Street gives fascinating insight into some of these events.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38699">rehmat1</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what point Rehat1 is making here. The fact that Ukraine was widely involved in the murder of Jews was well known and dated back to the 19thC. Perhaps the most telling account is that of the Police Chief of Odessa boasting he had himself killed thousands of a Jews as they fled the city naked and on foot in 1941. Tens of thousands were killed. The area was at the time under the occupation of Romanian forces and according to some it was on the insistence of the King and the Catholic Church that the police chief and colleagues were arrested for mass murder and imprisoned in Romania for some months. The Romanian authorities forbade anti Jewish programs. The police were later released after German pressure. It is also well known that killing of Jews in places like Lviv started in 1941 before the German Army even arrived! 30,000 Jews were massacred on that single occasion. Ukrainian Auxiliary police largely manned the Extermination Camps in Poland. The large scale of killing of Poles especially in Western Ukraine goes  unremarked on today, it no doubt being a &#8220;sensitive&#8221; subject. Ukrainian Nationalists were still fighting a terrorist war against the Red Army in the 1950&#8217;s although many ended up in Canada and the US where their descendants are important  politically and as can be imagined were delighted by the 2014 Kiev coup and had helped fund the Maiden &#8220;protesters&#8221;. Is it now argued Ukraine isn&#8217;t deeply anti Semitic? Phillipe Sands book East West Street gives fascinating insight into some of these events.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Barclay		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38701</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Barclay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 14:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38701</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38698&quot;&gt;Norman Pilon&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, white man, for editing brother Baraka&#039;s article. Now you&#039;ve put him in his place, I&#039;m sure, he&#039;ll be a good boy and submit his next article to be corrected by you before publication.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38698">Norman Pilon</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, white man, for editing brother Baraka&#8217;s article. Now you&#8217;ve put him in his place, I&#8217;m sure, he&#8217;ll be a good boy and submit his next article to be corrected by you before publication.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Barclay		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38700</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Barclay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 14:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38700</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38686&quot;&gt;Eric Blair&lt;/a&gt;.

An inevitable consequence of identity politics based on ethnicity was that racist whites would say, &quot;We&#039;ll have some of that&quot;.
Also worth noting is what is happening on many US campuses especially Evergreen University, where African-Americans are attempting to re-introduce formal segregation on the basis of race.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38686">Eric Blair</a>.</p>
<p>An inevitable consequence of identity politics based on ethnicity was that racist whites would say, &#8220;We&#8217;ll have some of that&#8221;.<br />
Also worth noting is what is happening on many US campuses especially Evergreen University, where African-Americans are attempting to re-introduce formal segregation on the basis of race.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rehmat1		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38699</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rehmat1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 12:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38699</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On July 28, 2017, UK-based African writer and blogger Adeyinka Makinde posted an article, entitled: Post-Maidan Ukrainian Antisemitism: Another Tragic Blowback From US Interventionist Foreign Policy. Interestingly, Makinde claims that he is not Jewish even though 50% of his blog posts are about Jewish sufferings. He also admits that he delivers lectures on African Jewish heritage at synagogues and other Jewish gatherings.
According to Makinde, the Maidan coup was overseen by Jewish Victoria Nuland in collaboration with other American Israel-First such as Sen. John McCain, Sen. Lindsey Graham, etc. but he still blame Ukrainians for hating Jews.
“Anti-Semitism is embedded in the history of Ukraine. Ukraine composed a large geographical segment of the Pale of Settlement where Jews were largely restricted at the time of the Russian empire. Babi Yar, the ravine site of an infamous massacre of almost 34,000 Jews in 1941 is situated in Kiev,” claims Makinde.
Ukraine is home to 450,000 Muslims, mostly Tartars expelled by Russian dictator Josef Stalin. Country’s richest person, Rinat Leonidovych Akhmetov, is a  Tatar Muslim. He is a coal and steel magnate and owner of Shakhtar Dontesk soccer, and Ukraine’ English newspaper Kyiv Post. Rinat is married to Russian singer and actress Liliya Smirnova.
Ukrainian Muslim singer Susana Jamaldinova won the 2016 Eurovision Song Contest in Stockholm, Sweden last year. Listen to her below:
https://rehmat1.com/2017/08/18/lobby-ukraine-is-ruled-by-neo-nazis/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On July 28, 2017, UK-based African writer and blogger Adeyinka Makinde posted an article, entitled: Post-Maidan Ukrainian Antisemitism: Another Tragic Blowback From US Interventionist Foreign Policy. Interestingly, Makinde claims that he is not Jewish even though 50% of his blog posts are about Jewish sufferings. He also admits that he delivers lectures on African Jewish heritage at synagogues and other Jewish gatherings.<br />
According to Makinde, the Maidan coup was overseen by Jewish Victoria Nuland in collaboration with other American Israel-First such as Sen. John McCain, Sen. Lindsey Graham, etc. but he still blame Ukrainians for hating Jews.<br />
“Anti-Semitism is embedded in the history of Ukraine. Ukraine composed a large geographical segment of the Pale of Settlement where Jews were largely restricted at the time of the Russian empire. Babi Yar, the ravine site of an infamous massacre of almost 34,000 Jews in 1941 is situated in Kiev,” claims Makinde.<br />
Ukraine is home to 450,000 Muslims, mostly Tartars expelled by Russian dictator Josef Stalin. Country’s richest person, Rinat Leonidovych Akhmetov, is a  Tatar Muslim. He is a coal and steel magnate and owner of Shakhtar Dontesk soccer, and Ukraine’ English newspaper Kyiv Post. Rinat is married to Russian singer and actress Liliya Smirnova.<br />
Ukrainian Muslim singer Susana Jamaldinova won the 2016 Eurovision Song Contest in Stockholm, Sweden last year. Listen to her below:<br />
<a href="https://rehmat1.com/2017/08/18/lobby-ukraine-is-ruled-by-neo-nazis/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://rehmat1.com/2017/08/18/lobby-ukraine-is-ruled-by-neo-nazis/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Norman Pilon		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38698</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norman Pilon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2017 00:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38698</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Power has no color, but coincidentally. I would edit Baraka&#039;s piece by dropping the color adjective from his analysis where inappropriate.
For example, I take issue with this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The white supremacy that some of us see as more insidious is not reflected in the simple, stereotypical images of the angry, Nazi-saluting alt-righter or even Donald Trump. Instead, it is the normalized and thus invisible white supremacist ideology inculcated into cultural and educational institutions and the policies that stem from those ideas.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Rather, to break free of the racial paradigm in  order to decisively shift the narrative and come a bit closer to a better approximation to the truth, what Baraka should have written is something like this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The [ideological] supremacy that some of us see as more insidious is not [accurately] reflected in the simple, stereotypical images of the angry, [white supremacist] Nazi-saluting alt-righter or even Donald Trump. Instead, it is the normalized and thus invisible [fascistic] supremacist ideology [unconsciously] inculcated into cultural and educational institutions and the policies that stem from those ideas.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In that fashion, I would amend the whole of Baraka&#039;s piece.
Capitalism doesn&#039;t have or even favor a color but for purely contingent historical factors, although in its fascistic phase, in periods of crisis, of potential or actual mass rebellions, it may indeed (and does) opportunistically foment divisions along the lines of existing popular racial prejudices, as along the lines of any number of other culturally reified (or ontologized) ethnic &quot;differences.&quot;
Other than that, Baraka&#039;s piece is well worth the read and mulling over . . .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Power has no color, but coincidentally. I would edit Baraka&#8217;s piece by dropping the color adjective from his analysis where inappropriate.<br />
For example, I take issue with this:</p>
<blockquote><p>The white supremacy that some of us see as more insidious is not reflected in the simple, stereotypical images of the angry, Nazi-saluting alt-righter or even Donald Trump. Instead, it is the normalized and thus invisible white supremacist ideology inculcated into cultural and educational institutions and the policies that stem from those ideas.</p></blockquote>
<p>Rather, to break free of the racial paradigm in  order to decisively shift the narrative and come a bit closer to a better approximation to the truth, what Baraka should have written is something like this:</p>
<blockquote><p>The [ideological] supremacy that some of us see as more insidious is not [accurately] reflected in the simple, stereotypical images of the angry, [white supremacist] Nazi-saluting alt-righter or even Donald Trump. Instead, it is the normalized and thus invisible [fascistic] supremacist ideology [unconsciously] inculcated into cultural and educational institutions and the policies that stem from those ideas.</p></blockquote>
<p>In that fashion, I would amend the whole of Baraka&#8217;s piece.<br />
Capitalism doesn&#8217;t have or even favor a color but for purely contingent historical factors, although in its fascistic phase, in periods of crisis, of potential or actual mass rebellions, it may indeed (and does) opportunistically foment divisions along the lines of existing popular racial prejudices, as along the lines of any number of other culturally reified (or ontologized) ethnic &#8220;differences.&#8221;<br />
Other than that, Baraka&#8217;s piece is well worth the read and mulling over . . .</p>
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		<title>
		By: michaelk		</title>
		<link>https://off-guardian.org/2017/08/17/the-story-of-charlottesville-was-written-in-blood-in-the-ukraine/#comment-38697</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[michaelk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://off-guardian.org/?p=39975#comment-38697</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Martin Jenkins in today&#039;s Guardian warns about the obsession of the liberal left with Trump&#039;s &#039;evilness&#039; to the exclusion of almost all other political issues. This is because the liberal left don&#039;t have anything else to sell but opposition to and demonisation of, Trump. Their anti-Trump and that&#039;s about it, and that isn&#039;t enough to win elections.
Essentially the left, the liberals, the Democrats , the combined media, and the Republican leadership are still fighting the last election campaign, only now it&#039;s a &#039;de-election&#039; campaign their on, attempting to reverse the election result. Trump and the hysteria surrounding him shows a ruling elite in the advanced stages of total collapse. Apart from clining to power they have nothing really to say to the American people and they are losing their mandate to rule. The social contract between the ruled and their rulers is breaking down, which is what the electoral success of Trump really means. The people preferred a &#039;fascist&#039; or a &#039;socialist&#039; to the vetted and approved candidates they were presented with and allowed to chose between. The rise of both Trump and Sanders shows how willing most Americans are to reject their twin-party system and vote for a candidate that promises to &#039;destroy&#039; the system they despise.
I also think people forget what NAZI means. It sold itself as a national, socialist, workers party. Sometimes the emphasis was on the nationalist part, other times they dialed-up the socialist part. In Europe one can see a strong current of &#039;nationalist socialism&#039; flowing and gaining momentum in many countries, for example Denmark. Today&#039;s successful nationalist socialists, or nazis, have dropped the overt military trappings in favour of business suits and female leaders, but just below the surface many of the core ideas of nationalist socialism remain.
Arguably, the ideology of the neo-conservatives, which has been embraced by both the Democrats, the Republicans, vast swathes of the liberals and the media, is far, far closer to old-school fascism than Trump is and far more dangerous, because the neo-cons have more power than Trump and have started many more wars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin Jenkins in today&#8217;s Guardian warns about the obsession of the liberal left with Trump&#8217;s &#8216;evilness&#8217; to the exclusion of almost all other political issues. This is because the liberal left don&#8217;t have anything else to sell but opposition to and demonisation of, Trump. Their anti-Trump and that&#8217;s about it, and that isn&#8217;t enough to win elections.<br />
Essentially the left, the liberals, the Democrats , the combined media, and the Republican leadership are still fighting the last election campaign, only now it&#8217;s a &#8216;de-election&#8217; campaign their on, attempting to reverse the election result. Trump and the hysteria surrounding him shows a ruling elite in the advanced stages of total collapse. Apart from clining to power they have nothing really to say to the American people and they are losing their mandate to rule. The social contract between the ruled and their rulers is breaking down, which is what the electoral success of Trump really means. The people preferred a &#8216;fascist&#8217; or a &#8216;socialist&#8217; to the vetted and approved candidates they were presented with and allowed to chose between. The rise of both Trump and Sanders shows how willing most Americans are to reject their twin-party system and vote for a candidate that promises to &#8216;destroy&#8217; the system they despise.<br />
I also think people forget what NAZI means. It sold itself as a national, socialist, workers party. Sometimes the emphasis was on the nationalist part, other times they dialed-up the socialist part. In Europe one can see a strong current of &#8216;nationalist socialism&#8217; flowing and gaining momentum in many countries, for example Denmark. Today&#8217;s successful nationalist socialists, or nazis, have dropped the overt military trappings in favour of business suits and female leaders, but just below the surface many of the core ideas of nationalist socialism remain.<br />
Arguably, the ideology of the neo-conservatives, which has been embraced by both the Democrats, the Republicans, vast swathes of the liberals and the media, is far, far closer to old-school fascism than Trump is and far more dangerous, because the neo-cons have more power than Trump and have started many more wars.</p>
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