The farcical reality behind Theresa May’s “novichok” story
We already know UK PM Theresa May misrepresented the Russian law on executing terrorists in foreign lands, in order to bolster her currently evidence-free claims of Russian culpability in the poisoning of ex-MI6 employee Sergey Skripal. Her narrative remains, as of March 15, bald and unconvincing. But it seems things may be about to get even worse for her and what some see as her bid to “Falklandise” her flagging premiership. It seems the “nerve agent” she claims was used to attack Skripal and his daughter may not actually exist.
the 2008 book in which dissident Soviet scientist Vil Mirzayanov published the formula for “novichok” which Theresa May pretends is a secret known only to Russia
Incredible as it may seem given the tale of certitude told by May in Parliament, and given the column inches used up in the media assuring the UK public how terrifyingly toxic “novichok” really is, the evidence for this alleged super-poison’s existence currently rests solely on the unproven claims of a dissident soviet “military chemist” named Vil Mirzayanov.
Mirzayanov told his western handlers a group of new (“novichok” in Russian can be translated as “new stuff” or “new arrival”) and allegedly highly dangerous compounds which he claimed could be created by combining commonly available substances, but it turns out western scientists were far from convinced by his claims, and, even as recently as two years ago, the efficacy and even the existence, of these “novichoks” was still deemed to be entirely speculative.
For example in 2013 the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (the body the UK refuses to work with in the Skripal case) had this to say about the potential reality of novichoks:
Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”. The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks” Report of the Scientific Advisory Boardon Developments in Science and Technology for The Third Review Conference p. 3, section 8
And again in 2016 Dr Robin Black, former head of the detection laboratory at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down made the same point:
In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the ‘Foliant’ programme, with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published. Robin Black (Dr), Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry 2016, cited in “Doubts about novichoks” by Piers Robinson & Paul McKeigue
What these publications are effectively saying is – there’s no evidence any of these compounds work in the way claimed and Mirzayanov may very possibly be exaggerating or inventing.
Which raises the question – how did the scientists allegedly sourced by May suddenly feel able to not only identify this previously poorly understood and questionable substance, but identify where it came from and lay claim to it being massively deadly and toxic? As Craig Murray says (our emphasis):
…now, the British Government is claiming to be able instantly to identify a substance which its only biological weapons research centre has never seen before and was unsure of its existence. Worse, it claims to be able not only to identify it, but to pinpoint its origin. Given Dr Black’s publication, it is plain that claim cannot be true.
But that’s not all. There’s also problems with May’s claim that the “novichok” formula is a deep secret, known only to the Russians. Mirzanayov was interviewed by AFP about the Skripal case and this is what he said:
“Only the Russians” developed this class of nerve agents, said the chemist. “They kept it and are still keeping it in secrecy.”
Exactly what May said in Parliament. Great. Just one problem. Mirzayanov neglected to mention that this “secret formula” known only to “the Russians” had been published in 2008 in his own book – still available on Amazon today.
Given the fact that anyone with an internet connection and $8.16 to spend could have obtained the “secret” recipe for novichok (which it seems most scientists don’t think would work anyway), and anyone with a decent professional laboratory could presumably manufacture it (again supposing it even works as claimed) will May correct her deceptive claims to Parliament and the British public?
Will the media continue to help her maintain her crumbling narrative? Are we watching WMD#2 with added depths of cynicism?
Read more about this at Moon of Alabama and at Tim Hayward’s blog
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i find
amusing as the british government has executed “terrorists” in northern ireland and gibraltar, and allowed members of parliament to starve to death! the british government has also deliberately split countries in two, along blurred lines, thus necessitating british troops to separate the restive natives (northern ireland, palestine!) or allowing britain “in the interests of fair play” to arm both sides! something about motes, eyes, and beams!
Published on 21 Mar 2018 If you were running for the presidency of a country, and about to host a major international event – would you poison a defector, who many years earlier was in your possession, with a toxic substance that leads right back to you? It seems the Russian cookie monster always leaves a convenient cookie crumb trail – or so the Western audience is led to believe. All symptoms of a provocation are clear. Furthermore, “Novichok” is not a widely known substance in Russia itself – it was developed by a chemist who moved to the US and published a book on his development. Make sure you watch until the end to see the briefing on the Skripal case by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The British side refuses to provide a sample of the nerve agent used in Salisbury to the Russian side – because,… Read more »
oddly enough, anna chapman was swapped in that exchange!
A MUST watch, it is brilliant!
Andrey Vadjra: About the Coma Patients at the Service of Her Majesty
The dog barks, and the caravan moves on.
I so miss that biting wit. I would love to go back but I think I would be too embarrassed!!!!!
Discussions of the finer points of nerve gas do not interest me at this time. What I would like to see is some proof that this alleged attack actually occurred, nerve gas or otherwise. Since I have no confidence in the word of those could furnish proof, if it exists, I guess I won’t be getting any.
Pssst, Tim, they’re in the Bahamas.
Meh…I don’t know. It’s certainly in-fashion to defend Russia no matter what they do…but it seems to ME that they’re the ones who’d want the guy dead! Seems like a “duh” moment to me. But I remember Russian tactics and behavior from the days when the KGB ran the show openly…instead of from behind the scenes. If we were REALLY supposed to believe the Soviets were gone…they shouldn’t have “elected” a retired KGB THUG to run things for DECADES!
This is very low grade trolling, unworthy of any reply, except that, in times when so many children are hungry even in the rich countries, and medical care is rationed and desperately needed by millions, it seems particularly inappropriate that public funds are used to finance troll factories, and that persons skilled only in the dark arts of misleading others and bending the truth wax fat.
You speak of this so called KGB thug as some sort of hitman. He was just an analyst. All you do is parrot off what other people keep saying. Russia is no longer communist. The Bolshevic jews were kicked out long ago. Under President Putin’s leadership, poverty has been reduced 50 percent, wages improved and Russia is now the biggest producer of non GMO wheat and other foods. He is also giving free land to those who will farm it. President Putin is the only sane president in the world.
And, and, HE forgave Cuba her debts so that she could prosper, whereas the US have loaded Puerto Rica with more debt and privatised the electricity.
God I hate to say this but if there are any people left who believe this utter bullshit, then they are fucking lazy and stupid.
What are you referring to when you say it is bullshit?
wow, things must be better in the ukraine if you can afford vanity licence plates! what you couldn’t afford sv0d0da? they’re not paying you enough, man!
I live near Salisbury. [I was away in Vienna from 5 to 12 March, so I come to all this with a certain freshness]. When I went into the village shop, shortly after my return, I was told that Livery Road was closed [briefly], because the Army was picking up a vehicle. Yesterday, March 17th, at about 12.45pm, I was driving to Andover, and had to wait at the lights for the Porton turn. The road was not only blocked by the traffic lights, but by police motorcyclists, to secure the passage of an Army low-loader, and ambulance marked Incident Vehicle, a police-car, and other police motor-cyclists, coming out of the Porton turn. Their blue lights were flashing, but they didn’t have the siren on, as they drove past towards Salisbury. The restaurant is still closed, with plastic tarps in front and constables [usually one] guarding it. There’s a tent… Read more »
so life in salisbury is normal enough? cool! have there ever been military exercises disrupting town life?
Your ‘article’ is utter garbage. You are only quoting one small section of Dr Black’s article (you haven’t read the whole RSC article have you?).
The section you quote is simply stating that there are no OPEN publications of the more lethal Novichok agents, which DOES not mean they don’t exist, nor that Porton don’t know about them. There is such a thing as SECRET intelligence.
There are no open publications on nuclear weapon design either, which doesn’t mean they don’t exist!
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/legacy.images/smosh-pit/112010/main-troll.jpg
Don’t even bovva Paul. The Russian scientist put the formula for “deadly novichoks” in his book. Probly wouldn’t have been allowed to do that if it was a secret ongoing military project would he.
You numpty
There are no novichok nerve gases, They are made up.
does the light hurt your eyes when you see it, or do you just keep your eyes closed all the time?
Last evening the Russian newspaper “Komsomolskaya Pravda” posted an interesting note/article about Vil Mirzayanov. The journalist’s name is Abbas Juma (https://twitter.com/IBN_MOHAMMAD/), he is well-known in Russia (and not only) and he specializes in the Middle East and, in particular, in Syria. In this artilce Abbas Juma is talking with a close friend of Vil Mirzayanov. The article is not big, so i translated it: Russophobe and Tatar separatist: who is the creator of the “Novichok” gas? The attention of the world press is now focused on a scandalous story with the poisoned ex-colonel of the GRU Sergei Skripal. Let’s recall, in the mid 90’s, Skripal collaborated with British intelligence, he was exposed, convicted of espionage. Then he was exchanged with a group of other spies for Russian spies detained in the United States. 11 days ago, Sergei Skripal and his daughter found poisoned on a bench in a small English… Read more »
Wow, Alaffcreator, that’s mindblowing, well theory-blowing, anyway.
Thank you so much for the translation. Just more plots to split up, sow dissent and destroy Russia. President Putin mentioned several in the film on another thread (which I call “Without Russia, what’s the point?”) especially Kazakstan and Belarus.
Having this man in place plus the ultra fast appearance of the “newbie” with its very own well developed wiki page, suggests that the ‘plot’ with the Skipals was well thought out BEFORE it supposedly happened.
Indeeed, but I think they moved too quickly and contradicted themselves too often. People are waking up everywhere.
Well, in my personal opinion, Mirzayanov now in “chemical dossier” is the same as G. Rodchenkov in “sports dossier”. He says what they (those who made this provocation) need. And he will say this as much as they will need. His “testimony” will be used (among other things) to legalize the “evidence of Russia’s guilt”. I can be wrong, but I have no doubt that ALL this was prepared in advance – the “incident” (it was planned in advance, cuz you can’t do such a thing spontaneously), the “official reaction” (indignation, tough statements, options for response), the results of “investigation” (you’ll see – the investigation will come to the only right conclusion). The reaction of UK’ allies is also VERY characteristic – still a few days ago most of them reacted carefully and even neutrally. France, Germany, even the US… – they said smth like this: “we are worried, of… Read more »
The sudden change of position by US, France and Germany is easily explicable. They received a dossier from HMG which convinced them that there is credible evidence that Russia is the instigator of the attack in Salisbury. Whether that dossier is genuine or has been sexed up, very few of us will ever know.
Good God.
very interesting! thanks!
Operation Beluga coming to an hysterical crescendo as Russia’s Presidential Election looms: https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/03/15/operation-beluga-the-plot-to-demonise-putin/
This is from a real chemist (with a title Dr) from Moon of Alabama’s comment section: Regarding the synthesis, as I understand it, this class are binary agents, i.e. non-lethal till mixing, so the two ‘halves’ could be made without specialist kit. Even active nerve agents could be prepared using a just fume cupboard, and the right PPE. Nothing too special required other than non shaky hands. Could be made anywhere the precursors are available. We worked with HF, OsO4, Thallium etc in such environments. Regarding the analysis. Typically small quantities are analysed (I used to install them) using GCMS. Gas Chromatography Mass spectrometry. This can detect down to femtogram levels. OK. So there exists databases of substances and their breakdown patterns under fragmentation, which can give possible matches to known compounds. This compound may have been on there. However, for an allegation of such seriousness, these would be ‘indicative’… Read more »
And that’s from Craig Murray, who seems to agree:
Porton Down is still not certain it is the Russians who have apparently synthesised a “Novichok”. Hence “Of a type developed by Russia”. Note developed, not made, produced or manufactured.
It is very carefully worded propaganda. Of a type developed by liars.
UPDATE
This post prompted another old colleague to get in touch. On the bright side, the FCO have persuaded Boris he has to let the OPCW investigate a sample. But not just yet. The expectation is the inquiry committee will be chaired by a Chinese delegate. The Boris plan is to get the OPCW also to sign up to the “as developed by Russia” formula, and diplomacy to this end is being undertaken in Beijing right now.
Ah! I love it! Yes, this is the most beautiful piece of verbal jujitsu that I shall use at all appropriate times from now on –
“Carefully worded propaganda, of a type developed by liars”
So many occasions to use this when perusing our favourite decaying media sources.
Much obliged Craig!
Alternatively, novichoks don’t exist and the Prime Minister was simply lying or had been duped into believing something fictional existed.
Porton Down easily has the skills to construct the molecules mentioned by Mirzayanov. Those substances get the name ‘Novichok’, even if Mirzayanov is lying. HMG is unable to identify the source, which implies that they don’t have ‘fingerpirnt’ samples.
UK’s claims questioned: doubts emerge about source of Salisbury’s novichok
A ceremony to mark the destruction of Russia’s stock of chemical weapons may have been held too soon
Ewen MacAskill Defence correspondent
Thu 15 Mar 2018 19.53 GMT Last modified on Thu 15 Mar 2018 22.00 GMT
note that they are saying that its Russia’sstock even though it was in Uzbekistan,andtheyfailto mentionthe involvement of the US in decommissioning the research base at Nukus.
So the ‘newbie’ chemical story fell apart. Next to go is the incident itself:
The Skripals, as I keep saying, are in the Bahamas.
First one to get a photograph………
According to Nikulin, the gas was produced in the city of Nukus in Uzbekistan. In 1992, the company was dismantled under the control of the Americans. Accordingly, the US would have samples of this substance. “In the case of using the gas, Nowitschok, I would look for any Russian track, but for an Uzbek or better American. That will be closer to the truth, “Nikulin continues. He emphasized that this nerve poison had never been used in the service of the Russian army.
It was never produced anywhere because it doesn’t exist.
It’s a fiction made up by a defector singing for his supper and later trying to sell his otherwise very boring book.
The plot thickens… Curiouser and curiouser, quoth Alice!
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/theresa-mays-novichok-claims-fall-apart.html
The ‘whistle-blower’ Vil Mirzanyanov who ‘revealed’ the ‘Novichok’ program and its poisons is furiously milking the story. He must be out of cash and wants to sell more copies of his book!
He must be jealous of all the attention fellow whistle-blower dissident chemist Grigory Rodchenkov got recently, what with that “Icarus” film getting the Oscar for Best Self-Aggrandizing Propaganda flick and the attention lavished on Russia’s supposed government-sanctioned sport-doping scheme.
Ah yeah, he must be out of cash as you say … times must be tough when you have a million-dollar house to maintain. Electricity bills running sky-high when that electric fence is on 24/7.
( … mournful violin playing in the distance … )
Sorry, forgot to provide the link:
https://twitter.com/dgaytandzhieva/status/973938123221676033
I don’t know where it’s better to post it – here, or in “The Skripal case. An open thread” topic… Anyways, I tried to collect several possible motives – why the UK, or someone else, could be interested to kill Skripal. Motive is the most important thing in any crime. Therefore, it is important to consider the possible reasons for what happened. The following selection is based both on my personal opinion, and on the generalization of the versions of Russian experts, analysts and political scientists made in last 2 weeks: (1) motive – To increase T. May’s rating and strengthen her positions in the structure of the British government. “Bold, tough and resolute measures” of T. May is called upon to raise her rating, to show the British society that she is a strong leader. This is a long-known method – the artificial creation of provocation (outside or inside… Read more »
I was reading about my 9th edition of Brittanica, the one which in 1889 refused to accept that blacks were human. I came across this comment which seems to apply here, given the American poodling foreign policy which characterizes May and colleagues. It was written when the Guardian was a relentless force for truth, justice and the moral way. It was the 100th anniversary of the sale of Brittanica to the Americans. God bless and help Jimmy Swales. How many times have Blair and May asked the question “How high?” “The full horror of what an American editorial monopoly entails is seldom appreciated. The American editors who write short in-house articles are ignorant and parochial…The Encyclopædia Britannica is a publication so contemptuous of Britain, the land of its birth, that it cannot be bothered to ascertain correct usage when speaking of the Thames, a publication so insular as to give… Read more »
Richard Seymour (someone whose writing I often read appreciatively) demonstrates – well, I don’t know what: extract: ‘Now, for what little it’s worth, I suspect the Russian state was involved in this attempted killing. It would, moreover, hardly be the worst of Kremlin actions in the post-Stalinist years, from Chechnya to Ukraine to Syria. But with relatively little to go on at a still early stage, people are entitled to reticence, if not a degree of downright scepticism. No one is obliged to agree with the British intelligence services, or Number 10. And the opposition, I would say, has a duty not to militantly fall into line behind the government.’ We are entitled to reticence. Thanks Richard for that reversal in the burden of proof masquerading as even handedness. ‘Relatively little to go on’ means what exactly ? Nothing ? MI6 briefing notes ? This encapsulates the failed Left thinking… Read more »
Seymour… often irritates me with his conceit, or is it merely arrogance? The point with academic life is that one has to remember that there’s always so much more to study, learn, and not least, understand. The more one learns, the more one sees how much more there is to learn. Which keeps one’s feet on the ground. There’s also the ‘uncertainty principle’ as I call it… what if I’m wrong about this? What if what I think I know and understand, is wrong? I just don’t understand, not fully anyway, how Seymour can be so certain about events in Ukraine, Syria and Chechnya. How is it possible for him to know so much about these faraway foreign places and pronounce judgements on them with such authority? Syria, for example, is an old country with a fiendishly complex, contradictory and multi-layered history and ethnicity. The more one studies Syria the… Read more »
It’s the almost gleeful detached intellectualism which doesn’t ‘disturb the surface’ as Pilger puts it, that nauseates me. The pontificating on something which others have felt, seen, experienced suffered, in order to gain kudos or money or position or fame. It is parasitical.
I am so sorry about your grandmother and that you have to suffer afresh – both from the right wing take over in Kiev and the utter crassness of the MSM.
I am sorry to hear what happened to your grandmother as well.
You understand far more than The Guardian and Richard Seymour do. They see with the clarity of simpletons.
It would, moreover, hardly be the worst of Kremlin actions in the post-Stalinist years, from Chechnya to Ukraine to Syria.
In other words, he’s on the side of imperialism, and their nazi/wahabi death squads. It’s convenient, these days, for the CIA’s mercenaries to pretend to be something other than what they are, so people like him can cheer for them without impairing their left-wing pose. Once you get started with the 9/11 Denial, why stop there, especially when a comfy career writing for the Praetorian Guardian awaits you?
What a f***ing asshole.
The clue lies in the “stalinism” reference. Seymour is a classic Cliffite tip toeing his way into a prosperous middle age by thinking up ‘leftwing’ reasons for agreeing with the imperial ruling class. He is following in the footsteps of Chris Hitchens.
I believe he was also able to detect symptoms of Stalinism in Ghaddafi and would hold a victory of the Zionist/Saudi axis in Syria as another blow against Trotsky’s enemies.The path from “Trotskyism’ to Neo-conservatism is so well worn that it is becoming a canyon.
Test of Theresa May’s Rule of Law, An Application For Habeus Corpus for Yulia Skripal
by John Helmer
http://johnhelmer.net/test-of-theresa-mays-rule-of-law-an-application-for-habeus-corpus-for-yulia-skripal/#more-18852
“An application to a British court for a writ of habeus corpus on behalf of Yulia Skripal is the last chance, British and international lawyers believe, to preserve for public accountability the evidence of the poison attack against her and her father, Sergei Skripal..”
John: do they have a body to produce would be a legitimate question? Four people (the Skripals, PC Nick Bailey, and an unnamed doctor) were admitted to Salisbury District Hospital with severe exposure to Novichok – yet the hospital has remained open and functional throughout. The ‘Novichok’ has persisted in ‘dusty form’ all week on a parking meter – when was the hospital quarantined and decontaminated? Reason would suggest that an open hospital would serve as a ground zero for further contamination of the community? Alternatively, it was never contaminated? The updates that we are now getting are for the Skripals and PC Bailey: what happened to the doctor? We know she treated Yulia (who had lost control of her bodily functions) for half an hour: and that after a few days she was “feeling fine” – due to that inconvenient truth: has she now been memory-holed? If they have… Read more »
Oh right, they are clamiing to have found the mythical powder form of mythical novichok now?
What an utter farce.
After a week and more than an inch of rain!
A deadly nerve agent which failed to kill? That was my first red flag, right there.
Indeed. A red flag and a deafening siren.
To be honest with everyone on here, I am actually really scared by whats going on right now and I don’t even know what to say or think about the insane things I am seeing being said by the political class and the media.
I feel the very same, I am worried about my three sons all of whom are in their 20s. These people are a criminal entity, determined to bring war, determined to ensure Imperialism lives on regardless of the outcome, death, devastation and ultimately a nuclear winter at this rate of pure insanity.
I feel the same way with a 17 year old son and 20 year old daughter. We seem to be sleepwalking into another war but this time the “enemy” isn’t some defenceless state but Russia who despite the post cold war nonsense about it being spent as a military force, can shoot back. It destroyed the Georgian army in a couple of hours and, if it wanted to, could have been in the center of Kiev in a morning.
For all the propaganda about how wicked Putin is, he’s predictable, sober and not easily provoked. I feel sure he will not start a nuclear war without carefully thinking about the consequences of such an act. I can’t say the same for May, the Blairites or Trump’s merry band of torturers and war criminals.
People, what are you talking about? Do you really think someone will start a WW3 because of some unknown (has anyone heard of Skripal before the incident? I doubt) old man poisoned (IF he really was poisoned) in a small English town?? This is not serious. What we have here is a game, obviously a well directed/staged spectacle. It’s just clearly seen. The spectacle has a scenario and in-advance-designated “guilty” side. Actors play their roles, everything goes according to plan. You should not be scared (this is what they want you to be), you should laugh on this. You should laugh right in their faces and constantly ask them inconvenient questions, every day. Maybe dome kind of mass protests with banners and posters. Maybe there is a sense to create a petition with demands to UK’ authorities to stop lying, to answer all questions (where’s concrete evidence, why they refuse/afraid… Read more »
Yes I know the Georgians started the conflict first, the point was that the Russian military are perfectly capable of fighting anyone and assumptions by the west particularly Americans who keep telling me that they’ll have their arses whipped by the good old USA is way off the mark and rather delusional.
The reason for our dismay is the irrational performance by politicians who should know better but seem to be hopelessly short of a brain cell or two and prepared to ramp up the jingoistic bollocks that started WWI for political advantage.
I think if anyone isn’t scared they aren’t paying attention or are living in the media fantasy that deems wars never happen here and nothing will ever interrupt the supply of chianti & avocados at Waitrose.
I simply don’t know what to do. We are talking about the most precarious situation in our lives – WTF is the government doing putting us all at risk like this? I live with family and could’t just leave to go to other side of the world. Is it worth withdrawing large amounts of money and buying supplies? Has it really come to this now? I need a hug 😉
It’s pretty risky, but the situation in Ukraine in late Feb 2014 was a lot worse. Let’s remember though this is theatre. We can be pretty sure while they are doing all this strutting and fretting they are also contacting Russia behind the scenes to try and make reassurances it’s all for show. They have no intention of actually declaring war on Russia. The danger is they are too stupid to see they are going too far and might kick something off by accident.
I an sending you love and peace over the airwaves. I certainly would start buying seeds to grow food, anyone with room for chickens should invest in a chicken run.
It may not come to this but I have felt for a long time now that WW3 is on its way. We no longer have a free press in UK, we have a media, political class in cahoots , there has to be a reason. The abuse Corbyn has had to deal with has been positively insane, why? The level of chaos since May took office is terrifying, I believe she is out of control, on a roll and is too crazy to see the wood for the trees.
I find evening meditation helpful, with a wee smoke of the queer stuff before bed.
“I an sending you love and peace over the airwaves.”
Thanks – and right back at you 🙂
I have been sending emails out, trying to avoid social media, linking to critical articles.
Little response.
I think people are generally regarding this like a reality TV show featuring celebrity politicians, (text your vote to the number at the bottom of the screen and include the word ‘OMEGA’).
Shocks coming.
I think if anyone isn’t scared they aren’t paying attention or are living in the media fantasy that deems wars never happen here and nothing will ever interrupt the supply of chianti & avocados at Waitrose. And then England — southern England, probably the sleekest landscape in the world. It is difficult when you pass that way, especially when you are peacefully recovering from sea-sickness with the plush cushions of a boat-train carriage under your bum, to believe that anything is really happening anywhere. Earthquakes in Japan, famines in China, revolutions in Mexico? Don’t worry, the milk will be on the doorstep tomorrow morning, the New Statesman will come out on Friday. The industrial towns were far away, a smudge of smoke and misery hidden by the curve of the earth’s surface. Down here it was still the England I had known in my childhood: the railway-cuttings smothered in wild… Read more »
Well that was interesting, I just left a comment on the a Guardian live blog about the longstanding resentment by the establishment for its failed World Cup bid for the tournament in 2018, which the Russians won.
If you remember David Cameron, Prince William and David Beckham blessed the proceedings with their presence but the FA claimed the result was a fix and we should boycott it, a constant theme in the following years although it later emerged they’d tried some bribery themselves with some watches?
I also speculated whether there would another event that would confirm a full boycott. Comment immediately deleted.
Could that be the real reason for this farce so we can boycott the World Cup!!???
Can you imagine a World Cup without England? England vs anybody are hardly marquee match ups.
Yes I can imagine the World Cup without England, but I suspect people like Boris don’t quiet understand it and would willingly sacrifice it for political advantage. It’s like some establishment figures have to have a football team, Dave’s Westham Villa and Prince William’s support of Villa which seems to be a choice of a team that offends by no one.
Of Course Boris and the rest of the Etonians went to school that played rugby and their sport of choice is ripping foxes to shreds with hounds. Millions here would be very disappointed and they would definitely be a political hit. So football pffttt.
“…..Villa which seems to be a choice of a team that offends by no one.”
Quite a few Birmingham City fans who would disagree…. Up the Blues!!
So the questions requiring absolute clarification are: 1) Have the compounds described by Mirzayanov been either synthesised in the West or supplied to Western agencies? 2) Do unique analytical signatures for those compounds exist, such that a professional analytical chemist could sign off identification of those agents? 3) Do standard pure samples exist at Western Standards Agencies so Accredited Laboratories could compare unknown samples with supplied standards? 4) Have detailed physiological/pharmacological studies with such agents been completed by the West to provide Porton Down with the biological signatures necessary to confirm equivalence of collected samples against standards? 5) How long do such physiological tests take to carry out? 6) Given the extreme secrecy attributed to such agents by Western politicians, how on earth could Western politicians have such certainty so quickly unless the killers had informed them directly as to the agents used? 7) How could Porton Down carry out… Read more »
The test of an effective education is to produce in the student the “unshakable conviction that snow is black.”
Bertrand Russell
Worth reading Canthama’s slant on this “Theatre of the Absurd” 1/2hr ago on Syrian Perspective:
Canthama
“Now we see the MI6/CIA CW playhouse in UK, all aimed at Russia but also related to Syria: there are dozens of US-UK-France-Israel-KSA-Jordan illegal Special Forces operatives in East Ghouta, and it is sealed tight, they can not escape. All you hear and see around this pathetic British “CW Theatre” is showbiz to create a behind the scenes deal for exit of these spies, who by Geneva conventions have few to no rights at all. It seems their deal is not working, hence the high pitched and desperate squealing from May, Nikki Binomo etc…”
blueschist posted in the “London” Guardian today in response to John Crace:
” . . . The sick joke is that the UK has failed to act credibly on too many occasions, just consider the radioactive murder of a Russian dissident in London in 2006 – . . . ”
I responded:
“MOSSAD has form on with polonium. Sharon admitted they’d used it to murder Arafat.”
The London Frauniad removed it with:
“This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn’t abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted.”
Thank goodness the OffGuardian is restoring the integrity of the Manchester Guardian.
This Mirzayanov joker has caused havoc with his bullshit book.
I am a UK Journalist and MP for Oceania, I unfortunately missed my two minutes of hate against Russia yesterday, could I make amends by hating Russia for four minutes today with increased fury.
See your supervisor about that one Harry – and don’t do it again or you’ll face demotion..
Hi Harry – we are really back to Dr Assad today as forces loyal to him (i.e. his army) are once again killing children in Ghouta, attacking the poor rebels and preventing food getting to civilians. I know this because two ‘doctors’, who could be in Ghouta, told a man in Coventry and it was all reported by a ‘journalist’ in Istanbul.
If that is good enough for the Guardian it must be true.
Yes their motto should be…Tomorrow’s news today.
March 15th 10am UK time.
Ten days since the incident.
ITV report that 38 people have been treated for contact with the alleged substance.
34 have been released after ‘assessment’. Skirpals, Bailey and one other (unamed- condition described as ‘being monitored’) in hospital.
Only report on this in past few days is on ITV. No interviews. No names. No details of medical treatment.
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2018-03-13/total-of-38-people-treated-in-hospital-after-nerve-agent/
And why isn’t there the same hysteria around Nicholai Glushkov (even had to look up name)?
Why isn’t our Luke shouting, “another one!!! another one!!! Ohhhhh, the Russians did it again!!”
Spookey Luke seems to have another tack in his article looking at Mrs Thatcher’s, ooops, sorry, Maggie May’s “moderate” response:
“Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, makes no secret of his loathing for the UK.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/14/mays-modest-response-to-skripal-attack-will-not-deter-russia
The speed with which the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary jumped on this incident to blame Russia reminds me of the exchange between Karl Malden [the Sheriff] and Marlon Brando [the accused] in that fine 1961 film ‘One-Eyed Jacks’ Karl Malden [T May] ” We are going to give you a fair trial, then we are going to hang you’.
Not just the speed, but the implication only traitors cannot accept at face value the idea of Russian guilt without due process.
Such hysteria only confirms our worst fears that truth and justice will go flying out of the window once geopolitical imperatives reach a certain threshold.
And the speed with which ‘ooh, I love a good fireplace, give us a kiss’ Gavin has opened a new chemical weapons laboratory:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/15/uk-set-up-48m-chemical-weapons-defence-centre-gavin-williamson
Note he is quick to point out that 77th Brigade (cyber warfare) is “not yet fully operational”.
Having escaped Morgan’s inquisition, the same RT journalist, rather a brave fellow, seeks to examine the government’s case for ‘propaganda warfare’ with Russia, which is, unfortunately, often just the starting point for real warfare with disaster following close behind.
https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/421350-theresa-may-skripal-saga/
A cynic might be tempted to think that this whole affair has its roots in UK domestic politics and a very unpopular and incompetent government that’s failing and falling apart, attempting to divert attention away from its dismal situation and the Russians have become an easy target, as one can say and allege virtually anything about them, however ridiculous, in this ‘with hunt’ atmosphere, with close to total impunity, no questions and no evidence apart from what one ‘Knows’ and crucially, no accountability.
Here a journalist from RT in the UK faces the inquisition on Good Morning Britain and, tellingly, is asked repeatedly about his ‘beliefs’ and what he ‘thinks’ about Putin and his evil ways, by an interviewer who apparently already knows the pure and unvarnished ‘Truth’ about Russia and Putin.
I especially enjoyed the part where Morgan asks the guy where he comes from and what his citizenship is, which comes across as being rather racist, when he replies that he comes from Cambridge, Morgan doesn’t even seem to notice, apparently he obviously looked… foreign!
http://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/thread/1521102307.html
Much of the hysteria now centres on the “traitor” Corbyn suggesting this whole thing is more for internal politics. On the Today programme this morning this was pushed to an extreme. Basically a failure to say “Russia definitely did it” is traitorous even though there is no evidence they did! Sounds as if the Tories anticipate an election soon.
Brave BoJo Boris, interviewed softball style on BBC Breakfast this morning, on being asked what evidence the government had that Russia did it, he replied, ‘The Russians smirked when questioned, that proves they are guilty’.
Mindboggling, BoJo really is a kind of Enid Blyton boarding school character.
Well in BoJo’s life, if you are addressing the plebs who only went to St Pauls, not Eton, you would undoubtedly smirk when correctly accused of shagging their girlfriend.
So by extension, anyone else who smirks must be guilty of whatever you accuse them of….
New 21st century First Commandment: Thou shalt not smirk at self righteous tossers.
I don’t know who revolts me the most the braying Tories in full-on lynch-mob mode, or the ghastly Labour ‘class traitors’ who have far more in common with the Conservatives than Corbyn, who is in an incredibly delicate situation trying to inject a tiny bit of caution and rationality faced by a howling phalanx of blood- thirsty warmongering zombies ready and eager to tear any dissenter to shreds with their claws.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/15/ukru-m15.html
Yeh, he’s like the independent schoolboy, with some integrity, surrounded by the bully’s gang who are all chanting ‘ you are with us, aren’t you?’
Well, if they are that bloodthirsty, give them a rifle and parachute them into Syria to fight…..
The Labour ‘class traitors are no longer representative of the socialist movement – they are basically of the same ilk as the Tories whose frenzy in smearing and defaming Corbyn (and any other rational thinking person) is now reaching absurd heights. Come the run up to the election, these Parliamentary Labour Party MPs will once again crawl out of the woodwork and further attempt to undermine and discredit Corbyn. However, the momentum is increasing day by day and this contamination of the Labour Party will be analysed, identified, isolated and quarantined. The Neo-Liberal Media presentation, as usual, is a complete inversion of the truth with the Daily Mail, and its cabal of useless idiots (Glover, Letts and Littlejohn) are presenting narratives that are completely divorced from the reality of the situation. With her attempt to re-live the glory (sic) of Thatcher and her bespoke ‘Falklands War’, this deluded and foolish… Read more »
I believe that is spelt NATZO. Rhyming with matzo but on the rise.
@Artur Cadbury..”However, the momentum is increasing day by day and this contamination of the Labour Party will be analysed, identified, isolated and quarantined.”
I’ll believe it when I see it. Until that happens, Labour Party will not be getting my vote. Those attacking Corbyn now are all in the “Friends of Israel” cabal i.e. bought or blackmailed by Zionists and serving their interests, not ours.. Which prompts me to believe that Mosad orchestrated or performed this latest psy op. http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/jewish_community.html
While one doesn’t necessarily have to agree with the political views of the WSWS, it does present a lot of interesting material like this stuff from France, which shows the potential path we’re on; a path leading to war with Russia with horrific consequences to follow. The current situation reminds me a lot of the time before the outbreak of WW1.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/15/fran-m15.html
It’s like the airliner shot down over Ukraine, which was quickly blamed on the Russians. The Russians know that the attack in Salisbury wasn’t carried out by them. They know that the British know this too. This leads to a level of contempt, animosity and mistrust that’s hard to quantify and extremely dangerous for future relations. How, in a real crisis situation, can these people, who seemingly despise each other on an increasingly personal level where emotions are clearly involved… talk and negotiate with each other in a civilized fashion? You’d think that this would occupy the minds of at least someone in our media ‘spectrum’, so large and so free, bustling with ideas and expert knowledge, but no, not a word of reflection or, dare one say it? questioning the party line. Which makes one think that we’re heading for war and no dissent is allowed anymore. The norms… Read more »
It has always been thus – we have only just opened our eyes. Perhaps because of the alternative news websites? These will, without a doubt, be the next target after RT. The Government has stopped Leveson II and have replaced it with their own enquiry with ‘different parameters’. It will, no doubt, find that on line media is too powerful and needs to be contained. This is also supported by the MSM/Parliament push to show the dangers of the alt-right and their influence via online ‘propaganda’. Bearing in mind that RT went down (was taken down?) for a time this week, Sri Lanka banned the internet for security purposes and, today, Indonesia took Bali off the internet for ‘quiet reflection’ over the New Year, if (or when), our Governments decide to shut down the internet, no doubt for security purposes, perhaps we need to be prepared to communicate in an… Read more »
“Mirzayanov neglected to mention that this “secret formula” known only to “the Russians” had been published in 2008 in his own book”
In fairness to Mirzayanov, he did mention it, which makes him sound absolutely ridiculous:
“The only other possibility, he said, would be that someone used the formulas in his book to make such a weapon. ”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russians-says-chemist-uncovered-existence-novichok-075342077.html
Lulz.
Last night at the United Nations the British ambassador proclaimed that this Russian attack showed that they had broken international law by creating a secret and illegal chemical weapons facility to manufacture dangerous and deadly chemical weapons and the West, the international community had to take action! This is really turning up the wartime rhetoric. The US ambassador supported May… 100%, linking the attack to Russia’s behaviour in Syria and demanded not just internatioinal condemnation, but action against Russia. Pointedly she emphasized that next time in could happen on the streets of… New York! This is incredibly belligerent language and at the same time a hint on a silver platter to Islamic State terrorists, for example, or some other actor, to do just that; carry out some kind of ‘chemical attack’ on the streets of an American city, which would then be blamed on Russia, classified as ‘an act of… Read more »
a hint on a silver platter to Islamic State terrorists, for example, or some other actor, to do just that; carry out some kind of ‘chemical attack’ on the streets of an American city, which would then be blamed on Russia, classified as ‘an act of war’ and pretext for military action against Russia
Who do you think runs the “Islamic State”?
https://off-guardian.org/2015/11/07/the-idiotic-media-version-of-isis-are-we-losing-our-critical-thinking/
Absolutely nothing that has officially happened since 9/11/2001 is actually real. It’s disinfo and psyops all the way down. One wonders how much longer the establishment left can continue to pretend otherwise, without losing all credibilty with their former audience, and therefore all utility to their ruling class sponsors. Disinfo is only functional if it isn’t OBVIOUSLY disinfo. For any rational person, it seems like that point should already have been passed, some time ago.
https://off-guardian.org/2018/02/09/denying-the-obvious-leftists-and-crimestop/
I don’t actually think that the organization… ‘Islamic State’ would or could exist in its current form with substantial logistical, financial, diplomatic and military support from the West. So, in reality an incident in New York doesn’t even have to be carried out by them directly. It could be the CIA itself, or some other ‘rogue’ grouping creating another ‘Pearl Harbour’ with chemicals.
My point was that the statement by Hailey should have been examined and criticised as amounting to an ‘encouragement’ to the terrorists and highly irresponsible, by our ‘free and independent’ media, that never loses a chance to attack Trump, yet, strangely, not when it comes to war and relations with Russia; which by itself is rather scary as it has the effect of steering his administration in that particular direction.
You are looking for logic; fairy stories don’t have logic.
Murray points out an empirical fact – that the list of Labour MPs supporting EDM against Corbyn’s demand for evidence is basically a list of Labour Friends of Israel.
Henry Jackson Society doing the rounds on the hysteria factory.
@milosevic, h/t regarding Atzmon.
Forgive me, I thought this was obvious. Surely anyone who has followed politics in the UK for the past few years knows this? Craig Murray does seem to have a habit of ‘revealing the truth’ just after the truth has been revealed.
It’s ironic how western politicians are indignant about what happened to a man who, when he was active years ago, they would have dismissed as a “commie”. Now we may be heading to war with Russia……over a red?
it’s instructive to see what Russian TV is saying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESqOR87y9Y
reminiscent of the US TV show The Lone Gunmen miraculously predicting the 9/11 event, it turns out that British TV miraculously predicted this latest WMD outrage:
the US TV show The Lone Gunmen miraculously predicting the 9/11 event
— in March, 2001. It’s almost like they’re laughing at us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)#9/11
They’ve been laughing at us for years, Milosovic. They call us ‘sheeple’. So funny, watching the children die in Iraq; oooooh, even funnier, the children in Yemen; the US soldiers topping themselves through guilt (not PTSD); making propaganda films with dead babies – that was real fun – the list goes on. They are evil – we are so not prepared.
Grasping at straws and finding only _ _ _ _
straws.
Reblogged this on Floating-voter.
Thank you to all the honorable people on Earth with the moral courage to stand strong against the war criminal deceivers.
Why not honour the willingness in everyone to question and challenge deceits? Why make ‘good’ people and set them against ‘bad’ people? Standing in integrity is for the integrity in all. Anyone living in this world will find cause to believe they have lost it – and thereby seek to mask in ‘moral’ appearances and justifications. It is the nature of the deceived to propagate deceit – for do we not all in a sense ‘teach’ the world we perceive and believe real? – thereby reinforcing our beliefs rather than questioning them when they hold a sense of dissonant experience. The deceiver is not ‘in’ the story, so much as our proclivity to take the bait of wishing it so. Protecting the ‘people’ from reality by feeding a false bubble conception and conception in place, is also the suckling of the ‘people’ on others willing to provide it. We generally… Read more »
Irrelevance and meaninglessness raised to a high art.
Does anybody still wish to argue that the entity above, whether human, robotic, or some combination thereof, is anything other than a disinfo shill?
Binra,
You wrote: “I believe we need a due process of transparent and accountable law to deal with conflicts and transgressions. But I don’t hold that we need a moral self-specialness to mask vengeance.”
Might we respectfully ask for your suggestions, free of any moral self-specialness, on how to prevent what looks like imminent world war? Thank you.
This Prime Minister is turning out to be a female Tony Blair!
One thing is sure, unless any hard evidence is produced [which looks increasingly unlikely] it appears the British Public are being lied to yet again. Why we are in this current situation where the government and MSM are in cahoots projecting a narrative which is neither cogent nor verifiable is the question to ask. What is their agenda? Let’s briefly summarise: A failing weak government fighting for survival. Desperately trying to look capable… A failing [financially] weak media fighting for survival. Desperately trying to look credible… No better example do we see of this than at the Guardian who despite their opposition to May and her shambolic premiership, they seem to rabidly concur with this travesty of justice. So far there is not a shred of evidence that points to Russia and I doubt any will be produced. The echo chamber of manufactured consent cranks on and on like a… Read more »
Jeremy Corbyn (obvious Kremlin stooge) actually had the effrontery to ask if there was any evidence!!!
Whatever next!!!
I thought all the Red Tory Blairites would explode with rage.
Corbyn is in an impossible position although it might be different if more people read Off-G rather than the Guardian. It is a real David and Goliath moment for him given the range of powerful forces currently orchestrating the anti-Russian psy-ops. For decades Corbyn has been portrayed in the media as an IRA loving, Hezbollah supporting Trotskyite, so any overt condemnation of the false establishment narrative (i.e. Russia using deadly chemical agents to kill enemies on NATO soil) more or less ends any chance he has of bringing the tories down at the next GE; a chance that is slim to begin with given the range of reactionary forces he is up against, not to mention a propensity across broad swathes of the British electorate to vote against their own best interests. Corbyn also has to content with a nest of Blairite vipers including the smug Chuka Umunna and former… Read more »
“Government and MSM are” …under the same directed agenda. There may well be all kinds of ‘failures’ of function that in and of themselves may be seen as result of misdirected thinking. But the core failure is a failure of spirit or purpose. Mis-directed thinking or a falsely framed narrative survival, is the hacking into mind that usurps the laws and jurisdiction of true governance or indeed of reporting news information. Misdirection may include diversionary tactics that work the populace into conformity of thought and compliance in deed. But may also set the conditions for changes in law or starting war. Yes you have to be cracked to believe it and so how can those participating in propagating it believe it? Perhaps they believe their safety and survival depends on complying and conforming. Perhaps top ‘insiders’ are privy to information of which we are unaware, not so much of Russian… Read more »
Dodgy Dossier is back, and this time he’s far-fetched with a vengeance!
Reading about the so-called whistle-blower dissident chemist Vil Mirzayanov on Moon of Alabama, Craig Murray and Tim Hayward’s blogs gave me an odd feeling that I’d read about his type before … Yes! Reminds me of the whistle-blower dissident chemist Grigory Rodchenkov who was the main source among others of claims that Russia runs a state-sanctioned sports doping scheme!
Just what I was thinking. Couldn’t remember Rodchenko’s name.
I’m sure they can come up with another “Curveball” for this.
Cue another wild goose chase looking for chemical weapons labs in Russia.
Maybe they’ll dust off those diagrams of the mobile labs they provided for Iraq.
Strange how Putin’s assassins didn’t manage to kill anyone with their “incredibly deadly, 10 x more dangerous than VX” nerve gas. Standards must be slipping at the FSB. Putin should do something about it.
My thoughts exactly. If this is so deadly, how is it that, after nearly two weeks, nobody has actually died?
Like, the Emperor has no clothes on?
Rob I think that I read somewhere that the attack was botched because the attackers were delayed and therefor they were Russian.
There I have provided the proof.