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9/11 – A Firefighter’s Perspective

Greg Bacon

Here we are, at the 17th anniversary of the event which shocked America–and most of the world–that was protected by massive lies still in use today. I am going to use two examples to show the readers why the official 9/11 story is a fraud and massive psyops campaign to give the USA an excuse to illegally invade nations, kill millions, wound millions more, create untold misery and fear for innocent people, at the same time knocking off predominantly Islamic states that Israel wanted destroyed and which would make Wall Street & defense contractors a ‘killing’ off the killings. And to use the 9/11 lies to justify an ever-growing police state both in the USA and most of the West, especially England.

And like the Skripal False Flag, anytime a lie gets exposed, the liars double-down and lie some more or tell a new, more confusing lie.

But first, will give you some of my background, to show you that I know a little of what I am about to say, due to my firefighting experience and extensive training in that field.

Between my start with the local county volunteer Fire Department, then getting hired as a career firefighter in a Midwest medium-size college town I accumulated almost 23 years of firefighting experience, fighting fires as a firefighter; a step-up Engineer–the one who drives the fire apparatus and is responsible for manning the fire engine’s pump panel when pumping water to the crews fighting the fire(s). Also as an Acting Lieutenant, Lieutenant and even twice as Incident Manager, the one who stays on the exterior of the structure fire and manages the various crews fighting the fire.

In addition to that, our Fire Department was dedicated to weekly training of personnel at our Fire Training Academy, where we honed our skills in class lectures and also by doing training evolution’s on the Academy’s grounds, which included a large concrete and steel burn building, where we would set fires in 50 gallon drums, close the steel window shutters, let the fire and heat build up, then attack the fire as if it was the real deal.

There was also a five-story concrete and steel tower, which was used to practice getting hose lines up stairwells and bringing victims down the same. There was also in-house training, where the station officer would create, then teach a class on not only firefighting, but all aspects of emergency work. Some times we’d pair up with another fire company, and go to the Training Academy to hone our skills.

Also, I have over 400 hours of college-level firefighting credits–in a variety of subjects dealing with emergencies, like proper Hazmat (Hazardous Material) response; extricating victims from wrecked vehicles; medical emergency training; Fire Officer training and of course, firefighting. These credits were thru the State University’s Fire Academy, that held Winter and Summer Fire School classes.

I write this not to brag, but to give credence to my original point; the official 9/11 story is filled with lies, fabrications, distortions, half-truths and propaganda.

Here’s two examples proving that:

ONE:- A shocked America was told that due to the passenger jets hitting WTC 1 & 2, the fuel exploding and resulting structure fire was the cause of both Towers collapsing, using the firefighting term, ‘pancake collapse.’ That term comes from the end result, after the building collapses, there will be a number of floors that fell on top of each other, looking somewhat like a serving of pancakes, hence the term pancake collapse.

Here’s a picture of one of the’ ‘Twins’ collapsing, spewing out clouds that look more like a volcano’s pyroclastic flow, which is the bottom picture so you can see the similarities.

There were 2,753 victims at the WTC attack, and of those, 1,642 have been positively ID’d, one very recently using advanced DNA techniques. That leaves over 1,000 that have NOT been identified.

Some of the WTC dead readily ID’d were in the Lobby and lower levels of 1 & 2, the rest thru bone fragments, most less that 1/16 of an inch long, but enough for DNA testing. DNA testing was used to ID 89% of those body parts found that they were able to match up with relatives DNA.

Some of these bones bits were found on the roofs of nearby skyscrapers. Pretty amazing feat for a simple building collapse to have enough energy to blast a tiny bone hundreds of feet thru the air, wouldn’t you say?

Human bones–especially the large ones, the femur and pelvic bones, are very resilient and tough. Modern crematoriums can’t even completely incinerate some human bones:

Temperatures within the chamber often reach the 1800°F – 2000°F range. It generally takes about 1-1/2 to 2 hours for a body to be completely reduced to just the bone fragments by cremation. Even at the high heat, bone fragments too large to fit in the urn are pulverized mechanically.”

So what kind of energy was needed to obliterate a human body into hundreds of pieces? Not a pancake collapse, that’s for sure. But we still have over 1,000 WTC victims that have NOT been ID’d, because they haven’t been able to find any DNA to test.

Again, what kind of energy does it take to vaporize a human body. Not the energy generated by a structure fire and building collapse.

TWO:- Minute bone fragments and vaporized bodies weren’t the only oddities from the official story line. When the South Tower collapsed–more like exploded–it ejected a steel beam weighing about 20 tons, sent it flying thru the air over 350 feet, and still had enough energy left over to impale itself in the Deutsche Bank building.

Here’s that steel beam, protruding from the bank. Again, a simple structure fire and building collapse doesn’t generate enough energy to fling a 20 ton steel beam thru the air like it was a 2×4 piece of wood.

Or as Scientists for 9/11 Truth state:

One good place to begin is this video of the North Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC1). Does it look like a building collapsing under its own weight? Or does it look like a descending series of explosions, progressing at about the same rate as the falling debris? Jet planes are fueled with kerosene, which is not a high explosive and cannot sever steel or pulverize concrete.”

These are only two of a slew of factors that expose the US government LIES about 9/11, which they used to go on a murderous spree, first to Afghanistan, which was NO threat to the USA, had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, but which needed invading so a certain ‘Deep State’ outfit that has been around since 1947, could occupy parts of that nation, and build bases from which the Pentagon can threaten Iran, Russia and China. And to plant poppy fields in record numbers, with the amount of opium and heroin produced each year breaking the previous year’s record. Poppy fields that are guarded by US troops, ensuring that the fields stay safe so hundreds of billions of dollars of opium and heroin can be extracted and sold each year, with some-or a lot – of that filthy lucre being laundered by those ‘Too Big to Fail’ Wall Street banks.

From there it was on to Iraq, another nation that had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and was NO threat to America, but which Israel wanted destroyed as part of Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties.”

A once prosperous ME state was bombed nearly back to the Stone Age, effectively neutering Iraq by letting, if not encouraging, religious divisions to break Iraq into several mini-states. Oh, did I mention that Iraq’s gold reserves went missing after the USA invaded?

From there it was onto Libya, busting up what was once one of the most prosperous African states and turning it – like Iraq – into a couple of mini-states, with warring factions fighting over the oil. Libya’s gold also magically vanished after western troops got in-country.

Then onto Syria, using a ‘rat line’ to ship Libyan weapons and terrorists to Turkey, Jordan, Israel and Iraq, so they could be trained and enough gathered so the USA, KSA, England and Israel could send their terrorist buds into Syria, using three fronts, with the USAF supplying transport of terrorists and weapons, and bombing the Syrian Army, while our MSM lied thru their teeth, saying they were bombing ISIS or DAESH or IS or al Nusra or al Sham or…take your pick.

If not for the intervention of Russia, Syria would now be another failed state, busted into pieces, with Israel possibly now having a legit claim to the land they stole from Syria in 1967, the oil and water rich Golan Heights.

Now the lies are being recycled again, this time the MSM and White House have put Iran in it’s psychotic gun sights, even though they had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and are NO threat to the USA, but which Israel wants destroyed so they can be the only ME power, both financially and militarily.

If we let those blood-thirsty WH maniacs attack Iran, the world’s economy will probably collapse, since very little oil will be shipped out of the Persian Gulf. If you think the 2008 MBS fraud that set off that recession was bad-and it was-attacking Iran would be an even bigger economic nightmare.

I am asking those that are still with me to find their voice and be like that Howard Beale news anchor character in the movie “NETWORK” that would standup during his newscast and shout, “I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore!”

That’s what we need to do regarding the 9/11 LIES. We need to expose the truth or forever resign ourselves and offspring to a life of poverty, tyranny, terror attacks, misery and a police state that will smother our inner light.

I thank you the reader, for your precious time and OffGuardian for being gutsy enough to print this blog. For as we all know, telling the truth can get one in a lot more trouble than telling lies.


  1. Just a quick thank you for all concerned here in a very useful discussion.
    There is certainly disagreement on how to interpret all kinds of evidence, but valid points are made on all sides, and although the material put forward can add to a confused picture, a little perseverance can put it all in its rightful place.
    It’s always good to know how your opponents think in any case.

  2. Thomas Prentice says

    This is insufferable, evidence-free speculation, but I am to ca 1970 in the Mossad /Shin Bet / IDF book “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations” by Ronen Bergman and guess who was taking down multi-story buildings by this time? Not skyscrapers, mind you, but ten or twelve story buildings in cities.

  3. harry stotle says

    I see no chance of a legal redress for 9/11 because in effect we are relying on the perpetrators to be their own judges.

    Ask yourself this – how many war crimes have been committed by the US since Hiroshima, then ask how many indictments have arisen.

    On the face of it we being asked to believe that the US is not guilty of anything while in Britain Blair is portrayed in the Guardian as a kind of elder statesmen.

  4. Rhisiart Gwilym says

    Perhaps Greg could give a few basic lessons in physical reality to ‘Writerman’ Roddis, to bring him up to speed – finally. Respect as ever, Greg, from this long-time supporter of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Keep sluggin’ buddy!

    • Admin says

      Philip Roddis has had the grace and generosity to admit a change of mind and perceived previous error. It takes a certain courage to do that, especially after the ferocity with which he was attacked back in 2016. I think we should respect that.

  5. First, kudos to OffGuardian for bringing up 9/11. Secondly, speaking of missing gold, there were supposedly vaults of gold beneath the twin Towers. (I say supposedly because I’m not a detail person but I read it somewhere.) In a prior OG article, the David Ray Griffin book review, one of the reviewers wondered why we needed a 7/11 as an excuse to invade the ME, why not just invade? That’s a good point but one I think can be answered by watching the movie Ocean’s 11. I think the unofficial version of 9/11 is a story about an elaborately planned robbery.

  6. Here’s one for FlaxGirl from this very brave fireman: “There were 2,753 victims at the WTC attack, and of those, 1,642 have been positively ID’d, one very recently using advanced DNA techniques. That leaves over 1,000 that have NOT been identified.”

    • vexarb, what is the source of this positive ID’ing? Are you kidding me? They’re just keeping the lies going with the positive ID’ing bullshit. I know it took me four years of study to get there but now I’m here it’s just so beyond obvious that 9/11 was a hoax just like so many other “terror” events. I thought it was different from the others because I was foolish in swallowing the disinformation agents but when I finally recognised them the penny dropped big time.

      Below is a link to my 10-point Occam’s Razor exercise on the 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured. I also offer $5,000 to someone who can come up with 10 points favouring the claim that 3,000 people died and 6,000 were injured on 9/11. It is beyond obvious, vexarb, that 3,000 people did not die and 6,000 were not injured. That would not fit their modus operandi one bit. Do you seriously think that if they can propagandise people into believing that 3 steel frame skyscrapers collapsed from fire when they obviously collapsed by controlled demolition and that four planes crashed when they didn’t that they can’t also propagandise them into believing 3,000 people died and 6,000 were injured – and that they’d much rather do that than actually kill them. It is sooooo ridiculously easy, it takes your breath away. Check out the 14 photos of the injured in my exercise (you will have difficulty finding many more photos on the internet of the alleged injured, interestingly). They are very, very obviously of people who are not really injured and are just participating in some kind of drill – evacuation, anti-terror or somesuch.


  7. A tale of Lucky Larry and Poor John. Pacificnorthwest BTL SyrPer yesterday:

    “On this day 17 years ago the Mossad, its traitorous PNAC allies and other crime families (the Bush & Silverstein crime families in particular) murdered more than 3000 New Yorkers. Israelis however, who worked in the World Trade Center were warned by the Mossad to not go to work that day. So, Lucky Larry Silverstein skipped breakfast with family at the top of the world trade centers — the first occasion he did so after his very recent purchase of the world trade center.

    Never forget this mass murder!

    Never forget the five dancing Mossad agents, and who was behind this Gladio style false flag terror attack!

    Lucky Larry Silverstein was supposed to have breakfast with John Patrick O’Neill, his new head of security at the WTC. O’Neill had recently got fired from the FBI for asking too many questions about the alleged Muslim attack on the USS Cole, which O’Neill probably found out was done by Israel when one of their submarines fired a Popeye missile at the American ship. Then the Israelis said the damage was done by Muslim fanatics in a boat that pulled along side. Yeh right. Like we don’t know the watch commander of the USS Cole would have seen that boat approaching from a mile off.

    Anyway so John O’Neill shows up for breakfast on his first day on his new job, and his new boss Larry Silverstein is nowhere to be found. I wonder if John ever figured out what was going on before he died. I bet he realized he had been set up to die.”

    • vexarb, now that I know better I think the dancing Israelis were truther-targeted propaganda over which the perps would have had a great laugh. I mean, seriously.

      What needs to be understood: the perps know the truth is out there but they also know that only a small percentage will pay attention. This is why they have no problem pushing out “their version” of the truth along with lies so that they can propagandise both truthers and believers alike. They push out the “truth” all the better to control information. They use the “truth” to propagandise the truthers to believe in the 3,000-dead-6,000-injured lie so that truthers only have half the truth. They know that the believers will be completely unreceptive to the truthers because they won’t believe the government would kill its own citizens in that way – and they’re completely right, they wouldn’t! Sure, they’ll kill hundreds of thousands in distant lands and send their soldiers to self-generated wars to get killed or suicide on return but they wouldn’t kill the people in the buildings or the planes. Not their MO at all … except perhaps for a select few. They’re so clever, no? Although their ends are simply stupid and sad.

      • Perhaps John O’Neill was one of the select few … or perhaps he’s living it up on a desert island. Who the hell knows?

        • vexarb says

          Flaxgirl, perhaps his friends and relations know more than you do? As do the F&R of the 1,600 people who were due to be in the WTC that mornyng and whose DNA was subsequently identified from bone fragments. A new way to get rid of corporeal evidence: vaporize the bodies with nanothermite and presto! Nihil corpus delicti (no bodies from the crime).

          John P. O’Neill, US Counter Terrorism expert, died NYC 11Sept2001. RIP.

          By the way, I do appreciate your sceptical querying elsewhere — recently re probable ‘posed’ position of dead woman in Gladio’s Bologna False Flag. But when you deny, in the face of F&R evidence, that nearly 3,000 people were probably engulfed in the WTC holocaust, of whom 1,600 have been probably identified by tissue DNA, you are passing beyond healthy scepticism into a pathological version of pyrrhonism.

          • vexarb, I only judge by the evidence … and lack of. It’s the same for Bologna as for 9/11 … and for Sandy Hook, Manchester, Westminster, Berlin Truck, Nice, etc. If 3,000 people died and 6,000 were injured I want more than the claim of DNA tests. Are you kidding me? On my webpage there are 14 pictures of alleged injured people at 9/11 that are obviously images of people who are participating in a drill. They do not match “injured from building collapse” event. They do not match in any shape or form. When what I’m shown doesn’t match what it should I don’t believe it. Can you give me a good reason why I should? I’m not skeptical. I do not believe it one little bit. I think 9/11 was a big fat hoax.

            Where are the loved ones of the 3,000 dead and the 6,000 injured and the 6,000 themselves? When controlled demolition is so very, very obvious the perps are not going to kill and injure all those people are they? They’re obviously extremely clever and they’re not going to do that. It doesn’t fit their MO. Does that not make sense to you? Don’t you think that the loved ones of 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured and the 6,000 injured themselves would be marching on the capitol very, very quick smart? On the internet we read that there are only a small number of family members agitating because the rest have been “paid off”. I swallowed that totally. But now I realise how ludicrous that is, the idea that the perps would rely on killing and injuring all those people and then being able to pay off any troublesome loved ones. Do you not agree that it would be ludicrous for the perps to rely on being able to pay off troublesome loved ones and that they would not do that and, in fact, there is zero evidence of it, just intimations on the internet.

            • Admin says

              We asked you this yesterday but received no response. We’re asking it again because it needs to be addressed.

              Have you made any effort to verify the numbers of dead? If you haven’t looked for the evidence you are in no position to claim it doesn’t exist. That’s on a par with NIST saying there was no evidence for explosions!

              • Below is Point 8 of my Occam’s Razor exercise that I think answers your question fine. Also, the 10 points in the exercise add up to a compelling case.

                You don’t necessarily need direct evidence of something to prove it. For example, if you can show that there is not a single compelling image of an injured person I think that proves that the event was staged and that people didn’t die. How would “injured staged” but “3,000 actual dead” be a possibility?

                This is a link to an image of a dead person which I think is pretty obviously fake. Warning: gruesome. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=images+of+dead+9/11&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTzc-qn5fdAhUaUd4KHe1lAawQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=894#imgrc=wVTfLHoOMhFXZM:

                Point 8 of Occam’s Razor exercise

                Memorial anomalies and Social Security Death Index anomalies

                There are many anomalous aspects to the names of the alleged dead. On this webpage dated January 2010, Simon Shack, points out a number of discrepancies:

                — Nine years after the event the memorials are all showing different numbers, and names on one memorial do not appear on others.
                — The first two names on the Wall of Americans memorial are Diana Aaliyah and Justin Aaliyah but these are not on the other memorials. Simon asks, “Wouldn’t the loved ones make contact and point out that these names are not on the other memorials?” He also questions the names themselves. If we say them, they can sound like “Die in a lie” and “Just in a lie”. (The power elite giving us their clues.)

                For more on these anomalies go to the webpage.

                Ersun Warncke did an exhaustive check of the list of victims provided on the CNN website. He found that of 2,970 people listed, only 446 appear in the Social Security death index and of those only 249 have a confirmed death certificate on file. Of those, not a single one has a valid “last address of record” on file.

            • MoriartysLeftSock says

              @flaxgirl, have you not read about the numerous petitions by 9/11families? There’s a current one demanding a new inquiry.

              • These people are disinformation agents. That’s why it took me four years to figure it out. I believed all the alleged family members and others were real. They’re hired. And we have proof of it in the strangely doctored photos of Bobby McIlvaine. See my Occam’s Razor exercise, Point 5.

                • Admin says

                  You mean you believe they are disinformation, based on a single photo you believe has been doctored. This is not proof in any accepted sense of the word, it’s simply subjective interpretation. And your whole premise is simply flawed reasoning. You use the alleged absence of grieving families as evidence no one died, but then when someone points out the grieving families exist you simply counter that they aren’t real!

                  What evidence would you accept at this point that would prove you wrong? If the answer is ‘none’ then something is very wrong, because you have an unfalsifiable hypothesis.

                  • There are two photos which are obviously doctored. I don’t believe they’re doctored, I know they’re doctored. How many doctored photos do you need? And doctored photos is part of their MO. Admin, you really have to accept the power elite methods. You cannot always come at them as if they’re hypothesized and you don’t actually accept them. There is far too much evidence of doctored photos in these events to pretend that they don’t doctor their photos as one of their clues.

                    I perfectly accept that there are alleged grieving families. What I don’t accept is that there is a number commensurate with the number of dead. Alleged grieving families are part of my hypothesis. They’re included, I’m not denying them. And what about the injured? Was it just all dead people and only slightly injured people? Were no people crippled or similar so that they are crying out for justice or their loved ones are? Where are the badly injured crying for justice? Where are the grieving families of the passengers in the planes? As far as I can tell all the grievers are loved ones of people in the buildings. For goodness sake, can’t you see that things do not add up? And that it makes no sense for the perps to kill and injure the people. Can you not see that it would make no sense for them to do that?

                    • Admin says

                      How do you know they’re doctored? If there’s hard evidence that’s a whole other issue of course. Can you take us through it?

                      What do you see as a realistic figure for the dead on that day?

                    • Admin says

                      You said you had proof they were doctored. Proof requires objective evidence. Subjectively deciding this or that photo looks dodgy isn’t proof of anything. You can legitimately say ‘I think this looks fake’, but you can’t say ‘this is a proven fake.’

                    • I didn’t say it “looked” fake in my Occam’s Razor exercise. Have you read it or at least referred to Point 5 where I describe exactly what I think shows doctoring, namely:
                      First photo:
                      —The hand on the mother’s shoulder (which can only be Bobby’s) has red on the fingernails and sports a thumbring. This is not consistent with the rest of his image.
                      — Bobby’s arm extending “around” his father’s back actually extends into the air and tapers prematurely to the wrist – it looks completely and utterly ludicrous. People do not put their arm “around” someone extending it into the air.

                      Second photo:
                      —Bobby has his arm along his mother’s back to rest on his father’s hand on top of his brother’s shoulder seemingly up against his brother’s cheek. I have never seen people do that in a photo before.
                      — His trousers form a straight line against his mother’s dress. A straight line cannot form that way when two people are standing together that way.
                      —The background is obviously photoshopped in as it is so dark while they are very brightly lit.

            • BigMamma says

              Are you trying to say that the buildings were pretty much empty on the day of the attack?

              That’s what it would take for there to be no injuries or deaths…

              I’m pretty sure the fire crews would have noticed if the buildings had been empty and i’m sure the vast majority of people working in the building would in no way go along with a scenario such as you’re suggesting, and we would have heard from at least a few firefighters if somebody had tried to coerce them into such a mass scale hoax.

              These are men and women of great integrity.

              The insidious forces behind this attack have no qualms about killing and maiming thousands of people so as to further their agendas…

              Trauma, grief and fear are the dynamics which drive them and that’s what they need to keep on infecting people with, all over the world and within the USA, so as to try and maintain their illusion of power….

              You can be sure that between 2000 – 3000 people died in the twin towers on that day…

              • No the buildings were not empty. The plane crash was faked, of course, so they would have just let off a couple of small bombs on empty floors to create the damage or something along those lines and then after the “plane crash” they would have evacuated ALL the people from the building instead of just some. Easy! I’m afraid some of the fire crews would have had to be involved in some way. 343 of the 3,000 people who allegedly died were firefighters and that is bogus. Also, the Firefighters for 9/11 Truth page is extremely muted compared to other groups’ pages and especially as 343 were allegedly killed you’d think firefighters would really be jumping up and down, demanding justice.

                You really need to look at the evidence (and lack of) rather than thinking of what the “insidious forces” are capable of or judging by the integrity of firefighters. I know what they’re capable of but killing the people in the buildings would not be part of their MO. It wouldn’t make sense because of the loved ones marching on the capitol apart from anything else. We do not have evidence of 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured and any of the purported evidence is not convincing in any shape or form. They’ve propagandised us good and proper.

                • Admin says

                  You seem to keep changing your claim. Sometimes you suggest no one died, sometimes you suggest some died but not the 3,000 alleged. Which is it, none or less than 3,000?

                • No I don’t. I say that there is zero compelling evidence of any of the 3,000 deaths while there is at least one example of a photo of an alleged jumper that clearly looks faked. Similarly, there is zero compelling evidence of any of the 6,000 alleged to be injured while there are 14 photos in my exercise that show people who obviously are participating in a drill.

                  However, that isn’t to say no one died. These events may well be used to bump off a few inconvenient people – I have no idea – or people may have even died accidentally.

                  I assert that for an event where it is claimed that 3,000 died and 6,000 were injured that without any clear evidence of it for 9,000 people (I’ll say it again: 9,000 people) I say it is a fakery.

                  Are you OK to accept a story of 9,000 people either dying or being injured without a SINGLE instance of compelling evidence and with evidence of fakery?

                  • And just to add – everything else was a lie: the terrorists, the people on the planes, the planes themselves, the buildings coming down by fire – why is it so shocking to think that a big fat lie was told about the people dying? It was a PSYOP – in psyops they want you to believe things, they’re not interested in the reality of them – for 9/11 they really did want the buildings down but they didn’t care about any other reality of the operation. Why are people who recognise that the buildings came down by controlled demolition and thus understand it was an inside conspiracy so shocked to think that the US government actually didn’t kill their own citizens in cold blood in the buildings. Why is that so shocking and hard to take onboard? To me it makes perfect sense. I simply do not understand why people are so resistant to what, in my opinion, is a complete no-brainer (yes, a no-brainer that took me four years of study to get to but if someone had pointed things out the way I now am I would have got it much sooner.)

          • vexarb, you are so very much more knowledgeable than I am. I’m essentially a know-nothing who cottoned onto false flags after watching JFK to 9/11 Everything is a Rich Man’s Trick. However, I think from watching certain YouTube videos I’ve gotten a sense of the power elite and how they operate that people who have a much wider knowledge of history and politics don’t necessarily have. Of course, I still know very little about the power elite myself but enough to understand a little bit better how they operate – at least, in relation to some of their methods.

            • vexarb says

              Flaxgirl, the most knowledgeable person on this thread is Greg Bacon, and I believe his figures. Contact Greg re where to get names and addresses of the bereaved. Then spend your $5000 on a trip to interview as many of them as you can. By talking to real people you will see the real enormity of this crime. Yes, the criminal regime who were prepared to kill millions of Middle Easterners for money were also prepared to sacrifice a couple of thousand of their own US civilians on 911 — and a few thousand US military personnel KIA later.

              • vexarb, these events are done right in our faces. I’ve done an 10 point Occam’s Razor exercise. Have you read it? Can you not see the impossibility of them killing the 3,000 and injuring the 6,000? Can you not see that it wouldn’t be part of their MO? Any purported evidence of the 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured is unconvincing.

                I assert that if an event covered by the media is claimed to have killed 3,000 and injured 6,000, convincing evidence of these claims should be present. It would be an impossibility for these two occurrences to be real if there weren’t convincing evidence of them. There isn’t convincing evidence of a single injured person or a single dead person (though there is quite strong evidence of fakery) therefore I assert ()without requiring further evidence) that the claim that 3,000 died and 6,000 were injured on 9/11 is false. Do you think that if there is no convincing evidence of a single dead or single injured person that I need to fly the US and do investigation? In fact, Point 8 in my exercise shows the SSDI does not match the people claimed to be dead. What more evidence do you need vexarb? What more evidence?

    • Antonyl says

      Did Muslim fanatics do any terrorism at all by themselves Vexarb? Was it all Israelis dressed up as Islamists?

      • vexarb says

        Antonyl, to date only Israelis have been caught in flagrante (and released pronto). But there must be at least a thousand non-Israeli (or dual-citizen U$-Israeli) criminals at large; starting with George Bush Sr & Jr, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Mayor Giuliani and the chairman of the official Report. The only Arab suspects I heard of were: head of Saudi secret service, a man nicknamed “Bush” for his pallyness with the Bush crime family; and the Bin Laden family who were guests at the Bush ranch the night before 911. I need not remind you that Saudi Arabia is Israel’s only ally in the ME, currently cooperating in NATZO’s invasion of Syria and Yemen. So 911 is a remarkable case of interfaith cooperation on a truly worldshaking scale.

  8. I wonder, were any of the building elevators out of service for maintenance that day before the impacts? If so that would be a potential avenue to move explosives up from the garage to floors below the aircraft crash fire floors. Did all the elevators have drive units at the top of the building or were elevators serving lower floors operated from drive units located on intermediate floors below the fire floors?

    It is obvious from replaying the collapse of the North Tower that those lower floor “squibs” were off-timing by probably a second or more. Perhaps debris came down the elevator shafts and exploded outwards through elevator doors after hitting stopped elevators but the timing of those lower floor sudden smoke or explosion emissions were were off on time by at-least a second if this was nothing other than a building collapse.

    I feel that in a building collapse of a building this tall, it would have been nearly impossible for the portion of the building above the collapse to have been completely vaporized before even reaching the fire floors. The upper part of the building should have remained more or less intact to drive through the floors below the collapse and that simply isn’t the case.

    It is like the entire upper part of both buildings above the fire floors exploded outward rather than falling vertically as they should have initially. Especially the upper part of the South Tower above the fire floors, which appeared to be already leaning after impact, should have fallen at-least mostly to partially intact to the side rather than exploding into little bits within 1-2 seconds of the initial purported floor(s) collapse on the fire floors that began the entire collapse.

    There are obvious questions such as the fact that burning jet fuel and burnable building components is not nearly a hot-enough fire to melt structural steel. Moreover there really isn’t much of an airliner that is strong-enough to rip through the structural steel beams in this building either. Yes, maybe the engines the landing gear struts, and maybe some of the aircraft frame, but 90% of both aircraft should have pancaked on the outside of the buildings.

    I can see both engine cores penetrating right through the building and out the other side, possibly taking-out 1-2 vertical exterior columns each, but both would have had to miss the central core columns, which were much thicker. There is no possible chance that the building collapses even with that kind of fire with just 2-4 outer columns destroyed by the engines. What were those jets carrying for cargoes, hardened press dies?

    A cargo of a half-dozen 12,000-lb hardened press dies would have penetrated the central core columns but they should have survived the fire and the collapse too. Lead ingots are even smaller than hardened press dies. A lead ingot that is just 3 ft square by 1 foot thick would weigh 5000 lbs. Figure a dozen lead ingots for cargo on the aircraft and they would have penetrated all the structural columns that they hit too.

    Not the aircraft fuselage though, which should have pancaked on the outside of the buildings and then fallen to the ground. I doubt that the outer wing spar is strong-enough to penetrate those outer steel columns either. Maybe bend them but certainly not penetrate them, and no chance anything in those aircraft could penetrate the central core columns unless they had already been cut partially through or coated with some kind of explosive like thermite.

    Were the aircraft carrying drums or pails of thermite as a cargo in liquid or paste form? We already know that some Israeli alleged college students were allowed to camp-out on a construction floor before 9-11 too. Maybe they sawed partway through some of the structural columns as has already been alleged or planted explosives. I find it very odd that the debris was hauled-off and immediately melted before any chance of investigation was done too.

    It is like whoever did this didn’t want anyone to have any opportunity to investigate what actually happened.

    • Shaped charges for demolition are explosive charges that propel just angled thin copper relatively…yes copper…through steel beams. So it can be a soft material. There was a documentary on tv that claims the alumium of the aircraft reached a sufficiently high temperature to burn through the steel. Just saying.

      • HardEvidence says

        NIST specifically stated the temperatures of the fires was not hot enough to melt steel. The idea the aluminum could somehow super-heat while exposed to these fires is completely unscientific and has never been suggested by anyone basically competent in metallurgy or physics

    • Detroit57,your point about an airliner not being strong enough to rip through the steel girders of a skyscraper ignores the fact that these were “modified” airliners being used as drones — some of the 33 new 757 airliners that Dov Zakheim, Pentagon comptroller, bought for the air force to modify into refuelling tankers. They could have been covered with hardened steel to turn them into armour piercing weapons. I think the generally accepted hypothesis is that the real airliners were landed by remote control override (another Dov Zackheim contribution, since his company SPC specialized in this) at an airbase and replaced by drone versions of modified 757s which hit the towers. They were thought by air traffic controllers to be the same planes because of clever merging of radar profiles. The black pod seen under the plane that hit the second tower has been variously interpreted as the remote control equipment and as a missile fired simultaneously with the crash to carve a pathway into the building. There does seem to be a flash at the moment of impact, assuming the video we have all seen dozens of times is real.

  9. Antonyl says

    Most suspicious for me:
    1) how 4 huge planes can go undetected over continental USA in 2001 just after the end of the Cold War.
    2) the aftermath report with all the strike outs and secrecy – very fishy.
    3) the cooperation of Al Qaida before in Afghanistan and now again in Syria with the CIA.
    4) the Saudis being allowed to fly out of the US while Americans were grounded just after 9/11.

  10. Also, it was known long before 9/11 that there are trillions’ worth of largely untapped natural resources in Afghanistan, including a huge amount of natural gas, a large amount of oil, lots of gold, precious and semi-precious gems, other metals, and especially rare metals and rare earths. This is why the US’s powers that be are hanging on to Afghanistan. It is not just military bases (they have built some) and poppy fields used for opium and other opiates. Already in 1971-1972 when I was living in Kabul, I heard about the oil and the huge natural gas reserves from various westerners living there and working in ONGs, as well as in the ICRC and in UNICEF, with whom I spent a lot of time.

  11. I saw it live and immediately noticed the squibs, I instantly understood that it was a controlled demolition from top down (had it been from bottom up, the towers would have collapsed sideways onto a large number of nearby buildings). I immediately realized that it was a false-flag operation, and when I explained it to friends and family along with other details – most of the kerosene exploded outside of the building, and burning kerosene is not hot enough to even weaken steel, if it were, no airplanes and jets could’nt possibly fly. Also, had there been enough heat to weaken and even melt steel, all the people inside would have been incinerated long before the collapses, yet people were phoning relatives up to the moment of the collapse). Of course, most of my friends and all my relatives thought I was crazy…

  12. Fair dinkum. says

    That was then, this is now.
    Seventeen years of struggle with almost zero acknowledgement by the psychopaths who rule.
    The facade of democracy must be undermined by anti consumerism, BDS, demonstrations and networking between those seeing justice.
    Nothing else works.

  13. There are only two theories which remain scientifically feasible to me and one of those is left feasible at present due to my technical inability to critically evaluate claims of 21st century ‘micro-nukes’.

    The two theories may be combinable.

    1) Nano-thermite driven demolition.
    2) Destruction using a focused micro-nuclear device housed in the basement car park, somehow designed to operate its destructive energy in a cylindrical-not spherical manner.

    The first creates explosive conditions hot enough to sever solid steel structures and is consistent with first responders reporting explosive noises consistent with controlled demolition. Does it produce the effects necessary to expel huge steel structures outward?

    The second creates prolonged reactions consistent with weeks of extreme heat under the rubble at Ground Zero. It would create explosive power necessary to expel steel structures. Would it produce the ‘clean kill’ of demolishing just one vertical building?

    There is no question that 19 Arab patsies did not carry out the attacks and there is also no doubt that those who did had the highest level knowledge of the planned scenario simulations on 9/11 to be carried out by US Security Organisations. There is also no doubt that both Saudis and Israelis were allowed to breach the air curfew imposed across the country to hot foot it back to the Middle East.

    There is also a huge Jewish footprint across many critical arenas
    1) Operation of the security systems at various airports;
    2) Ownership of WTC;
    3) Sending of warning messages to Jews immediately prior to 9/11;
    4) Co-ordination of Defence against Class Action Suits;
    5) Heading the Official 9/11 Commission;

    Finally all the false wars benefit Israel, possibly Saudi Arabia and no-one else. They do not benefit the USA or NATO nations, they do not benefit the Middle East and they do not benefit Iran.

    It will be interesting seeing whether a Federal Grand Jury will be constituted following petition of Federal Legal Officials. I have signed that petition and I recommend all readers here do likewise……

  14. May the good man Greg Bacon, his family and friends live healthy, happy and blessed lives.

    “When the South Tower collapsed–more like exploded–it ejected a steel beam weighing about 20 tons, sent it flying thru the air over 350 feet, and still had enough energy left over to impale itself in the Deutsche Bank building.”

  15. Edward Crowe says

    WTC7’s plane was diverted into a field. WTC7 was then demolished very symmetrically to attract suspicion. This was done to cover-up the failure of the bomb in the school that Bush was visiting. Rumsfeld’s plane was looped at the pentagon to avoid killing him, so that it would not look like a coup d’etat, giving Cheney the power.

  16. Edward Crowe says

    There are three mysteries: delay at the school, looping of Pentagon plane, symmetrical demolition of WTC7.
    WTC7’s plane was diverted into a field. WTC7 was then demolished very symmetrically to attract suspicion. This was done to cover-up the failure of the bomb in the school that Bush was visiting. Rumsfeld’s plane was looped at the pentagon to avoid killing him, so that it would not look like a coup d’etat, giving Cheney the power.

  17. DavidKNZ says

    Kudos to Greg Bacon. I have been following his posts on various internet sites; its always to the point, checkable, and more importantly, courageous. I like to think he’s doing this on behalf of his fellow fire fighters who did not survive 9/11

    • Very astute observation, Mr DavidKNZ. A few years after 9/11, when I realized we had been told lies, I swore that I would work to help expose the truth until the truth emerges about that day, and keep fighting till I turn into worm food.

      Not sure which way it will turn out, but the fight goes on.

      • DavidKNZ says

        Perhaps you could assemble your various postings into your own blog?? You have a truth to tell, and a common collection point helps in this.
        I see you are venturing into Pat Langs space 🙂 Good luck; he tends not to take prisoners
        Best David K

  18. zach says

    Millions of Americans share your perspective, Greg. But last week’s bipartisan sanctification of McCain suggests the nightnare has a long way to run yet. All the politicians and media are as mad for empire and blood as ever.

    • Archie, in time for what?

      “Time is no healer — the patient is no longer here”. — TS Eliot

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