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Open Thread: Skripal Suspects Interviewed on RT

For those of you who missed it – the Skripal suspects came forward, approaching RT to tell their story. The whole interview is embedded above and available here, with a transcript here.

A quick rundown of their claims:

  • They are civilians, not GRU officers.
  • They are tourists, who travelled to Salisbury to see the cathedral and visit Stonehenge.
  • They are were not carrying, and have never seen, the Nina Ricci perfume bottle.
  • They did not know Sergei Skripal lived in Salisbury and had never heard of him before he was in the news.
  • They urge the UK police to show the CCTV footage from Salisbury cathedral, which they claim serves as their alibi.

In the interests of impartiality we point out they produce no evidence to back up these claims, and the case remains very much a “he-said-she-said” situation.

These developments open up new questions

  • Will the UK request extradition?
  • Will Russian authorities invite UK police to Russia to question the men?
  • If asked, would the UK police go?
  • What prompted these men to come forward?
  • Will the UK police release the CCTV footage of Salisbury cathedral?
  • Are they really civilians? Will they produce passports and/or documentation as evidence?
  • How many tourists visit Salisbury cathedral every year? How many Russians visit the UK as tourists every year? How many Russians, excluding the named suspects, were in Salisbury around this time? These statistics could be revealing.
  • This move could bolster the UK cause, at least in the media, is it part of a quid pro quo diplomatic arrangement? Possibly with the UK making a concession in Syria?

Whatever the truth of the matter, this interview certainly serves to confuse things. Their story is possible, but not supported with evidence. They are clear on some details – and their request for the police to release the cathedral CCTV rings true – but yet they are also cagey about their business and personal life.

The talking heads in the mainstream media have already dismissed the interview as lies from start to finish – they would do this no matter what was said – but it is foolish to seize on the translated words of two obviously anxious men as evidence of guilt. Especially when the “official narrative” is so full of holes in terms of the timeline, logistics, motive and method.

However, it would equally partisan, in the opposite direction, to declare their story watertight and totally believable. There are certainly a lot of unanswered questions here, and we have a duty to withhold judgment and attempt to be impartial.

What happens now? And do you believe the two men? Comment below.


Kit Knightly is co-editor of OffGuardian. The Guardian banned him from commenting. Twice. He used to write for fun, but now he's forced to out of a near-permanent sense of outrage.

Filed under: discussion threads, empire watch, featured, latest, Skripal case

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Kit Knightly is co-editor of OffGuardian. The Guardian banned him from commenting. Twice. He used to write for fun, but now he's forced to out of a near-permanent sense of outrage.

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Shring
Shring

The entire story is fake imo.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

The reported : “chemical weapon assassins’ birth date attributes” …

The reported birth date attribute for the script entity known as “Ruslan Boshirov” is 12 April 1978

The reported birth date attribute for the script entity known as “Alexander Petrov” is 13 July 1979

Quote : There are almost no open sources of information about Boshirov. According to the “Fontanka”, he was born on April 12, 1978 in Dushanbe, was registered in Moscow in a 25-storey house on Bolshaya Naberezhnaya street.

Quote : Petrov is even less known. According to the documents, he was born on July 13, 1979*. A person with such a date of birth and a given name can be found in the list of employees of the national manufacturer of immunobiological preparations – the FSUE NPO “Microgen”. It was created in 2003 by the merger of fourteen enterprises of the immunobiological industry. The structure of “Microgen”, subordinate to the Ministry of Health, includes nine branches.

Hillary Clinton announced her 2016 Presidential candidacy on 12 April 2015

Quote : The 2016 presidential campaign of Hillary Rodham Clinton was announced in a YouTube video, on April 12, 2015.[5]

Theresa May’s first day as UK PM was 13 July 2016.

Quote : Assumed office 13 July 2016

Hillary Clinton announced her 2016 Presidential candidacy on “Ruslan Boshirov”‘s 37 th birthday.

Theresa May’s first day as UK PM was on “Alexander Petrov”‘s 37 th birthday.

Hope this helps.

MG

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

Whilst not forgetting, the vassal state we are in …

“Trump to May ?

six six six months, weeks and days” …

*

Theresa May’s first day as UK PM was 13 July 2016[1]

Donald Trump was born on 14 June 1946[2]

= 666 months, 666 weeks, 666 days [3]

*

[1] Theresa May

[2] The Jo Cox script …

Donald Trump was born on 14 June 1946, the same day that the inventor of television, John Logie Baird died.

The cryptic, “tune in a TV” narrative node in the Jo Cox / Thomas Mair script, clearly referenced Donald Trump via the John Logie Baird allegory.

[3] Date calculation method is INClusive ISUAF = Include day 1 and the last day in the calculation. If Smaller Units Added First. ( Days & Weeks, then Months & Years ), so two date calculation URLs are required :

Links to follow.

MG

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

“Ruslan Boshirov” and Hillary Clinton’s Presidential Nomination.

See above : The reported birth date attribute for the script entity known as “Ruslan Boshirov” is 12 April 1978

Hillary Clinton won the Democratic Presidential Nomination on 26 July 2016

Democrats Make Hillary Clinton a Historic Nominee

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/us/politics/dnc-speakers-sanders-clinton.html?_r=0

By PATRICK HEALY and JONATHAN MARTIN

JULY 26, 2016

PHILADELPHIA — The Democratic convention formally nominated Hillary Clinton for president on Tuesday, making history by choosing a woman to be the first standard-bearer of a major political party, a breakthrough underscored by a deeply personal speech by Bill Clinton calling her “the best darn change-maker I have ever known.”

INClusive =

= 666 + 666 + 666 weeks

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=12&m1=4&y1=1978&d2=26&m2=7&y2=2016&ti=on

MG

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

The Yulia Skripal Reuters video and Hillary Clinton’s Presidential Nomination.

The Yulia Skripal Reuters video :

OffG : Whose words was Yulia reading?
https://off-guardian.org/2018/05/24/whose-words-was-yulia-reading/

“Yulia Skripal allegedly making voluntary statement May 23 2018”

*

See above : Hillary Clinton won the Democratic Presidential Nomination on 26 July 2016

= 666 days

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=26&m1=7&y1=2016&d2=23&m2=5&y2=2018

MG

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

“Alexander Petrov” and “Ruslan Boshirov” rt.com interview and Hillary Clinton’s Presidential Nomination.

Hillary Clinton accepted the Democratic Presidential Nomination on 28 July 2016

Hillary Clinton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

Clinton made a second presidential run in 2016. She received the most votes and primary delegates in the 2016 Democratic primaries and formally accepted her party’s nomination for President of the United States on July 28, 2016 …

*

The “Alexander Petrov” and “Ruslan Boshirov” rt.com interview was broadcast on 13 September 2018

= 777 days

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=28&m1=7&y1=2016&d2=13&m2=9&y2=2018

MG

Peter Schmidt
Peter Schmidt

Dr Chris Bushby was arrested and released today. He never bought the argument that Russia had poisoned the Skripals. One of the leading figures in the science community. He do know what he’s talking about.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

Thank you Peter Schmidt.

Dr Chris Busby’s home was raided by police on 13 September 2018, the same day as the “Petrov” and “Ruslan” RT production …

COP POISON PROBE Police taken ill with ‘chemical poisoning’ after raid on home of British nuclear expert who appears on Russia Today

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7250170/chris-busby-devon-police-ill-chemical-poisoning-nuclear-expert-russia-today/

Dr Chris Busby was held by police after a dramatic raid on the nuclear expert’s home in Bideford, Devon
By Neal Baker

13th September 2018, 1:48 pm

*

Dr Chris Busby on the Skripal Russia Poisoning affair

Video: Dr. Chris Busby on Novichoks and the Skripal Russia Poisoning Affair
https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-dr-chris-busby-on-novichoks-and-the-skripal-russia-poisoning-affair/5635305

MG

Ross Hendry

MG – sorry I’ve just seen your video after posting mine below. As far as I can tell mine is a shortened version of yours covering just the last 2-3 minutes.

manfromatlan

Re Dr. Busby, harassment of any one who questions the official narrative too closely: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488667/Why-I-know-weapons-expert-Dr-David-Kelly-murdered-MP-spent-year-investigating-death.html
Why I know weapons expert Dr David Kelly was murdered, by the MP who spent a year investigating his death
By NORMAN BAKER

Last updated at 00:13 20 October 2007

Posing as a freelance journalist, he had attempted to contact the key policemen involved in investigating the case. In this he was unsuccessful but within an hour he received an unexpected return call.

The person on the other end of the line did not bother with formalities, but instead cut to the quick. How would my contact welcome a full tax inspection of his business, VAT, national insurance, the lot?

Life could be made very difficult, he was told. How did he fancy having no money?

jdseanjd

Thank you.

So, the only 100% conclusion that can be drawn is that TheArse May & BlunderButt Boris are completely stupid liars, so insane as to attempt to demonise Russia, on a transparent false flag, even to the extent of risking WWIII?

John Doran.

Ross Hendry

He’s clearly a thorn in the side of the U.K. our intelligence agencies. Here’s his view on the Salisbury false flag:

https://www.express.co.uk/videos/555051/Dr-Chris-Busby-Novichok-poising-was-a-false-flag-operation

manfromatlan

The full range of harassment against anyone who questions official stories too closely
Why I know weapons expert Dr David Kelly was murdered, by the MP who spent a year investigating his death

By NORMAN BAKER

Last updated at 00:13 20 October 2007

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488667/Why-I-know-weapons-expert-Dr-David-Kelly-murdered-MP-spent-year-investigating-death.html

<

blockquote>Like me, he had many doubts about the true circumstances surrounding Dr Kelly’s death and he had begun making his own surreptitious inquiries around Southmoor, the Oxfordshire village which was Dr Kelly’s home.

Posing as a freelance journalist, he had attempted to contact the key policemen involved in investigating the case. In this he was unsuccessful but within an hour he received an unexpected return call.

The person on the other end of the line did not bother with formalities, but instead cut to the quick. How would my contact welcome a full tax inspection of his business, VAT, national insurance, the lot?

Life could be made very difficult, he was told. How did he fancy having no money?

<

blockquote>

Matt
Matt

Moscow, October 8

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Bohirov, the two men suspected of poisoning the Skripals in Salisbury, have been found dead in an empty garage outside Moscow. An independent investigation by the Moscow police has concluded that the death was a double suicide. A letter found near the bodies stated: “We cannot live any longer as two innocent men being hounded to death by the Western media and secret services. This is all the Western media’s and secret services’ fault. The Western media and secret services hate Russia and the Russians, and it is because of them that we died”. The men have apparently chosen to enter a suicide pact by shooting each other 17 times in the back.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

Upvoted yourself three times, have you, troll? Think yourself funny, do you?

Jen
Jen

Probably bribed his call-centre cubicle pals on either side of him and in front of him to upvote his comment.

Just when you think Matt the pretend Venezuelan aka #DownWithAssad couldn’t be any more crass, immature and vulgar in his trolling, he straight away descends to depths hitherto believed unfathomable.

Matt
Matt

The irony of one who accuses another, without evidence, of being part of a “call-centre” and getting posts upvoted from fellow colleagues, of calling me a “troll”, is simply too great for me to handle.

Which call centre do I work at? If you were serious when making this accusation, and not merely trolling (which is probably the reality), then present evidence to support your claim.

My “call-centre pals” did such a poor job of upvoting my comment that it only received 5 upvotes vs. 72 downvotes!

I must tell them to work harder.

Matt
Matt

Dear rude commentator,

It is also possible that 4 people upvoted me. Look again. My comment has 72 downvotes, so if I were to upvote myself, it would be to go over that amount. Duh.

Think a little before you accuse people of “trolling” and of upvoting themselves.

manfromatlan

Are you being sarcastic, or just suggesting their impending demise? Sometimes, it’s just being offensive.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

The Golden Rule : If a narrative contains references, then they are included for a reason. Always.

So, has anyone managed to work out the connection between :

Sergei Skripal’s alleged son Alexander & his reported meanderings on Russian Rail / the Sapsan train …
The “Ruslan” and “Boshirov” narrative “New Balance sneakers” …

and :

the Donald Trump 2016 Election Campaign ?

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned any of these “narrative nodes”.

For example, why do you think that 2 alleged assassins, in such an important media interview, would feel compelled to mention their trainers / sneakers by their brand name ?

BTW : Today, there is another ongoing Prezzo restaurant “medical emergency” in Salisbury High street once again …

‘Medical incident’ at Prezzo restaurant in Salisbury
https://news.sky.com/video/medical-incident-at-prezzo-restaurant-in-salisbury-11500210

MG

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

The reported : “chemical weapon assassins’ birth date attributes” …

The reported birth date attribute for the script entity known as “Ruslan Boshirov” is 12 April 1978

The reported birth date attribute for the script entity known as “Alexander Petrov” is 13 July 1979

Source : https://www.fontanka.ru/2018/09/05/075/

Translation : https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=https://www.fontanka.ru/2018/09/05/075

Quote : There are almost no open sources of information about Boshirov. According to the “Fontanka”, he was born on April 12, 1978 in Dushanbe, was registered in Moscow in a 25-storey house on Bolshaya Naberezhnaya street.

Quote : Petrov is even less known. According to the documents, he was born on July 13, 1979*. A person with such a date of birth and a given name can be found in the list of employees of the national manufacturer of immunobiological preparations – the FSUE NPO “Microgen”. It was created in 2003 by the merger of fourteen enterprises of the immunobiological industry. The structure of “Microgen”, subordinate to the Ministry of Health, includes nine branches.

Hillary Clinton announced her 2016 Presidential candidacy on 12 April 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016

Quote : The 2016 presidential campaign of Hillary Rodham Clinton was announced in a YouTube video, on April 12, 2015.[5]

Theresa May’s first day as UK PM was 13 July 2016.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_May

Quote : Assumed office 13 July 2016

Hillary Clinton announced her 2016 Presidential candidacy on “Ruslan Boshirov”‘s 37 th birthday.

Theresa May’s first day as UK PM was on “Alexander Petrov”‘s 37 th birthday.

Note also :

Theresa May’s first day as UK PM on 13 July 2016, followed Donald Trump’s birth and John Logie Baird’s death [1] on 14 June 1946 by :

= 666 months, 666 weeks, 666 days [2]

MG

[1] The Jo Cox script …

Donald Trump was born on 14 June 1946
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump

14 June 1946 was also the same day that the inventor of television, John Logie Baird died.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logie_Baird

The cryptic, “tune in [ to ] a TV” narrative node in the Jo Cox / Thomas Mair script, clearly referenced Donald Trump via the John Logie Baird allegory :
https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?p=1062862847&posted=1#post1062862847

[2] Date calculation method is INClusive ISUAF = Include day 1 and the last day in the calculation. If Smaller Units Added First. ( Days & Weeks, then Months & Years )

So, two date calculation URLs required :

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?d1=14&m1=6&y1=1946&type=add&ay=&am=&aw=666&ad=666&rec=

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=14&m1=1&y1=1961&d2=13&m2=7&y2=2016&ti=on

.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell

No takers then ?

The Golden Rule : If a narrative contains references, then they are included for a reason. Always.

So, has anyone managed to work out the connection between :

Sergei Skripal’s alleged son Alexander & his reported meanderings on Russian Rail / the Sapsan train …

and :

The “Ruslan” and “Boshirov” narrative “New Balance sneakers” …

and :

the Donald Trump 2016 Election Campaign.

See the Wikipedia page for : “List of Donald Trump presidential campaign endorsements, 2016”

Among that list is the owner and chairman of New Balance is Jim Davis, [503]

“New Balance founder gave nearly $400,000 to Trump – The Boston Globe”

Also we read that Vladimir Yakunin, Russian businessman, public figure, former president of Russian Railways, and founder and president of the World Public Forum “Dialogue of Civilizations”[541]

also contributed to Donald Trump’s Presidential campaign.

The Wikipedia page for the “List of people sanctioned during the Ukrainian crisis”

lists Vladimir Yakunin among those who were sanctioned over the “Ukraine crisis”.

These script nodes are easy to find and understand, nothing more than basic research and clicking on a few links.

But first of all, one needs to read the narrative. All of it.

Hope this helps

MG

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

Looks like raging nutter Christo Grozev has been working on this story for Bellingcat along with Aric Toler.

Now the number 495-195-79-66 is what appears on the matrackuksis mattress firm’s website, dated 2016.

Aric Toler is claiming that the Ministry of Defence’s number is 499-195-79-66, and it looks like they are going to claim they called it and recorded the call in their next Bellingcat post.

It turns out that the 495-195 area code changed to 499-195 between 2016 and now.

So obviously 499-195-79-66 is still the mattress retailer’s number.

Any supposed recording of a ‘Ministry of Defence clerk’ claimed to be on that number will be a total fake.

By the way I’ve called the number myself, it rings but there’s no answer today. Bit strange that the Russian MoD reception doesnt answer the phone, perhaps they were at lunch.

manfromatlan

Bellingcat sources Western presstitutes Novaya Gazeta and Yulia Latynina for their MOD ‘connection’ because it’s from the same district as the ministry, LOL and when they called the number someone hung up 🙂
Source: https://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/2018/09/14/145085-novaya-gazeta-obnaruzhila-dopolnitelnye-dokazatelstva-vozmozhnoy-svyazi-cheloveka-obvinyaemogo-v-otravlenii-skripaley-s-ministerstvom-oborony-rossii?utm_source=push

Except:

Man From Atlan
Spiritual Answers For the New Age
Russian. Journalism?

September 01, 2017
https://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2017/09/russian-journalism.html

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

There’s no answer either on the number they say is the phone number for ‘Foreign Military Review Magazine’, 499-195-79-64.

They say this is the official magazine of the Ministry of Defence, but it appears to have no website of its own and as far as I can see hasn’t been published since 2011.

I could be wrong obviously, I’m just an amateur bellingcat style.

manfromatlan

Bless the “amateurs” I say.

Matt
Matt

Patrick Reevell of ABC’s Moscow bureau called the number and got through to the MoD:

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1040768754421035009

Oliver Carroll, Moscow correspondent for the Independent and Evening Standard, also earlier called the number and got through to the Ministry of Defense:

https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1040766698620690432

Now that the MoD has wised up, expect no more calls to the number to be picked up.

manfromatlan

And maybe the Atlantic Council with their enablers in Russia got the MOD number from “a publicly available database” and the gullible western media called them up to confirm they got through to the ministry as if that proves they were Russki spies, LOL.

It is for this reason that Bellingcat blocked me, not because I was ‘abusive’ but because I skewered their thin gruel connect-the-dots logic with ridicule then sends their followers to argue their case here on OffGuardian.

Assertion repeated endlessly is not proof of anything, as I say to the “Q” cult or Jordan Peterson/Sam Harris fan boys on Twitter 🙂

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

It’s not the MoD’s number.

Of course someone could call the actual MoD, record the call, and pretend they’d called 499-105-79-66 (The mattress retailer) which is likely what Bellingcat have done.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

Don’t you just love Russophobic trolls quoting the Western presstitute propaganda sewer?

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

Matt wrote:
Patrick Reevell of ABC’s Moscow bureau called the number and got through to the MoD:

He can’t have done. Any recording of the call?

Admin
Admin
Admin

Is it significant even if he did?

We currently have no provenance for the alleged docs, no information on if they’re genuine or how they may have been tampered with, and no data to show the alleged markings would be how ‘spy passports’ would be processed.

Given the obvious incongruities and the fact the source (Bellingcat) is a known dumpster for the worst pseudo-research and fake intel, there’s no reason to give any of this any real world credence at this stage, whoever the alleged phone number may belong to.

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

He can’t have done, he literally called the number that’s written on the mattress firm’s webpage.

Your site for some reason won’t let me post even an abbreviated version of the firm’s page.

Admin

We aren’t stopping you posting. Send it to us directly

manfromatlan

Sent link twice already.

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

Well yes, it seems highly unlikely that the procedure for issuing GRU members passports is with blank forms with a special stamp mixed in with everyone else’s normal civilian passport forms.

manfromatlan

That passes as ‘evidence’ nowadays. Extreme scepticism is sometimes called for when it comes to MSM claims.

Matt
Matt

Bellingcat is far more truthful than many other alternative media outlets. It may make errors from time to time, but that is perfectly natural and not reason to smear them. Are media outlets not allowed to make mistakes every now and then? If they, say, make repeat errors that derail their entire claim, then perhaps it would be cause for concern. But most of what they publish is perfectly reasonable, truthful, and backed up by solid analysis.

Your visceral reaction to the mention of Bellingcat comes from your reliance on RT, which has engaged in an unprecedented smear campaign against the outlet and its founder. I’ve never really seen anything like it, and here are a bunch of people who repeat these horrible smears.

Funny thing is that Bellingcat’s research has been published numerous times in a positive manner by the Russian media… but only when the articles discuss Ukrainian neo-Nazis and their crimes. Did you know that Mr. Higgins, before joining Bellingcat, used the same open-data analysis technique back in 2013 to track weapons shipments from countries like Croatia to the Jihadists? He was widely praised for this work.

But when Russia sees articles like this, then it’s obvious why an entire state and its army of state media organs would so viciously attack a group of less than a dozen researchers:

“The Kremlin’s Shifting, Self-Contradicting Narratives on MH17”

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/01/05/kremlins-shifting-self-contradicting-narratives-mh17/

Many websites, including this one, published the above disinformation. And none have retracted it. Why?

manfromatlan

How Fancy Bear Destroyed Eliot Higgins Bellingcat Credibility
https://washingtonsblog.com/2018/06/how-fancy-bear-destroyed-eliot-higgins-bellingcat-credibility.html

So Eliot Higgins sources re Russia are US State dept funded “dissidents” and Ukrainian intelligence, LOL. Now can your passive aggressive voice, Matt.

manfromatlan

And I challenged @EliotHiggins directly here, got blocked for my pains 🙂 https://twitter.com/manfromatlan/status/886628839887187969

manfromatlan

Response to these guys broke every rule in the KGB/GRU handbook comment on Twitter: Like the 9/11 “hijackers” who broke every rule in the Muslim, Jihadi, and suicide bombers handbook, and were “too incompetent to fly a single engine aircraft” according to instructors at their flying school in Florida but left a Boeing 767 handbook in their car, LOL.

Troy Albertson
Troy Albertson

My impression is that these guys had nothing to do with the Skripal poisoning. On the other hand, their business dealings are probably illegal, and if they came clean, they–or people they associate with, in Russia or abroad–would go to jail. The evidence that would exonerate them of Skripal involvement would most likely destroy their business and/or their lives–and those of associates who might take revenge for being ratted out. I wouldn’t want to be in these guys’ shoes.

JudyJ
JudyJ

And, I suspect, if they were to come clean they would risk ending up face down in a lake somewhere at the hands of their ‘business associates’.

thorella

All comments disputing the UK government narrative of the Skripal poisoning are being rapidly deleted in this article published in the Independent. What does the UK government fear?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/salisbury-novichok-attack-suspects-passport-russia-skripal-putin-petrov-boshirov-a8539666.html

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

And now Putin has poisoned a Pussy Riot member, The Guardian tells me. Not with novichok though.

I’d imagine Putin has his remaining novichok up on ebay now since it’s proven to be pretty rubbish.

theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/13/pussy-riot-activist-in-hospital-after-being-poisoned-says-group-pyotr-verzilov

mog

Bad batch of coke?

Jen
Jen

Pyotr Verzilov was treated by doctors at the Sklifosovsky Institute in Moscow. They say he was poisoned by anticholinergic drugs which are used as neurotransmitter-blocking medications to treat conditions such as vertigo (Verzilov reported feeling dizzy after a courtroom hearing earlier on the day he fell ill) and respiratory conditions such as asthma. Verzilov may have overdosed on the medicine or had a reaction to it. Anticholinergics are rarely used for recreational purposes.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/09/14/pussy-riot-member-pyotr-verzilov-has-regained-consciousness-he-s-been-hospitalized-for-three-days-and-his-friends-fear-he-was-poisoned

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

My post with the link seems to be stuck, so just in case anyone missed it, the phone number 195-79-66 claimed by Bellingcat, Insider Russia, Novaya Gazeta etc to be the number of the Russian Defense Ministry’s Military Intelligence Directorate belongs in fact to a mattress retailer.

J Garbo
J Garbo

Good old Bellingcat. Fantasy news backed by waffles and syrup. Since their MH17 Buk missile fantasy, they just get better. Soon they’ll try news.Indicative of the Groin, that their nonsense is used as “evidence”.

manfromatlan
Paul X
Paul X

The Mail’s story has a ‘traditional’ story line; the Baddies smoked weed and had noisy sex with a prostitute according to an unnamed ‘witness’. No references to the Hotel management and presumably no questions are allowed. So these skilled Agents on a murder mission either brought cannabis with them or bought it in London on arrival as well as procuring a prostitute.

manfromatlan

Beats having to visit Stonehenge and Salisbury Cathedral then 🙂

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

The GRU doesn’t employ gay men so the Daily Mail got the directive from HM Government to turn them straight with some ‘witnesses’.

Admin
Admin
Admin

Are you assuming this, or is there some evidence to support it?

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

Bellingcat a ‘respected investigative website’??!! Fake news at its fakest!

alaffcreator

I thought it will be good to post my comment on this platform too. Yesterday i posted this comment on Bellingcat’s website in their topic about “Suspects passport data”. Not sure they will publish it. Maybe they’ll do, maybe not.
Anyways, here’s what I answered to Bellingcat’s “investigation”:

(1) First, and the most important – It’s useless to seriously discuss this topic (read, this version of events) simply because any normal & sane person understand that real personnel who work for special/secret services will never (i repeat, never) be presented in any kinds of public/civilian databases – passport database, tax database, address database, drivers licence database and so on and so on. This is rediculous.

And even if we assume purely theoretically (as the most incredible and stupid fantasy) that secret agents are actually present in some civil databases, it is absolutely clear that they will never use their real names – i.e. if Petrov/Bashiros would be a secret agents and use these names in their “passport forms”, then they would never call themselves the same way – Petrov/Bashirov – giving interview to RT. Mean, we would hear something like “I am Ivan Zubov, i am Maksim Moshkin”.

(2) Bellingcat – we know who you work for and what your task is. So, why did you need to “search” for the alleged “passport data” of these two men? Britain issued them a visa, so the British side has very detailed data on these men – their fingerprints, foreign passports, HQ photos, addresses, phones, contacts, a list of their closest surroundings (also with contacts) and much more. All this is in the British side (which for some reason is afraid of all this to show).

I mean, it’s strange that your sponsors/supervisors didn’t take care that the British side provided this information for your “investigation”.
Although… yes, obviously, you need to create the semblance that you “tracked down”, “found” these data during the “investigation”.
Ok.

(3) “…two Russian nationals identified by UK authorities as prime suspects in the Novichok poisonings on British soil…”

Hmm, but what about Mikhail Savitskis aka “Gordon” and his 6-people “killer team”? Bad, “unconvinient” version? Savitskis is too “unseen”, “mystical”. It’s hard to show him to the public. Look, here we have these two guys right on our cameras. Let’s better use them. In this case we can show screenshots to the public and it will be some kind of “evidence”. This version is better, so forget about Savitskis, let’s use these two gawks.

Btw, if the poisoning ever happened (still no info it really happened), than victims most likely were poisoned by BZ agent, not by substance you call “Novichok”. Symptoms, the very possibility of recovery, other signs – everything speaks in favor of BZ. For some reason British side afraid of this info and try to hide it from the public. S.Lavrov was, in fact, the ony one who reported this data to the public in April, based on the expert opinion (data from the laboratory of the Swiss city of Spiez, who analyzed samples from Salisbury).

(4) If British side claim what these two say is not true – what’s the problem? You can always visit Russia, interrogate them, you can test them on lie detector. You can do many things. Why not do? Though, we know the answer, right? British side will not like the results, as it didn’t like after interrogating Andrey Lugovoy, and checking him on lie detector in a “Litvinenko case”. Lugovoy’s testimony, confirmed on lie detector, did not suit the British side, because contradicted their version of “Russia’s guilt”, so it was simply ignored in final conclusions. How nice, isn’t it?

(5) “…However, no records exist for these two personas prior to 2009…”

‘No records exist’, or… you simply failed to find it?

(6) “…no records exist for these two personas prior to 2009. This suggests the two names were likely cover identities for operatives of one of the Russian security services.”

Haha, a stunning, ingenious conclusion! Naturally, if you didn’t/failed to find the data for two men, dating back to 2009, then it definitely means that they are “operatives of one of the Russian security services”. Can there be any more conclusions? Of course not. Hahaha.

You know, people who draw such conclusions as you are usually called conspiracy theorists.

(7) “…at least one man’s passport files contain various “top-secret” markings, which, according to at least two sources consulted by Bellingcat, are typically reserved for members of secret services or top state operatives.”

Yeah, sure. Russian special services (who last year celebrated its 100th anniversary) are so dumb that they leave “various “top-secret” markings” on the paper forms of their secret agents, and moreover they let these papers to be in some civil databases that some “online investigators” can obtain one day. Isn’t it funny for you yourself?
Facepalm. And see (1).

(8) “These findings, along with peculiarities in the two men’s bookings of their flight to London, make Russia’s official statements that Petrov and Boshirov are civilian tourists implausible…”

You take two obviously rediculous, strange and suspicious things and use it as a base to claim Russia’s statement is implausible. But why do you ignore the direct data/information that these two guys told? They told a lot of information. Not difficult to check out. If really interested, of course. They told they failed to visit Stonehenge because of snow. There was snow in that time in London/Salisbury. They told they wanted to see Salisbury Cathedral because this is a very famous/popular/beautiful place. This is true, this place is really famous. They told what they did, where they were, what they saw, where they were drinking coffee and many other things. Why so afraid(?)/lazy(?)/not interested(?) to theck out reliability of this data?

(9) Russian rules for issuing passports assume:

passport is issued in 14 years before the age of 20 years.
passport is issued in 20 years before the age of 45 years.
passport is issued in 45 years and no longer changes.

You claim Alexander Petrov was born on 13 July 1979. If so, he should have received his first passport in 1993 when he was 14 years old. The man on the b/w photo does not look like a 14-year-old teenager. Then Petrov had to change his passport in 1999 when he turned 20 years old. Again, the man on the b/w photo does not look like a 20-year-old young man. Judging by the photo, I would give him ~ 25-30 years old.

(10) Regarding the date of birth. Again, you claim Alexander Petrov was born on 13 July 1979. And you mentioned Russian media outlet Fontanka. Yes, Fontanka reported on September 5, 2018 about a person with that name (Alexander Petrov) born on July 13, 1979, but… for some reason you don’t say that Fontanka meant a completely different person. Namely (quote from Fontanka): “A person with such a date of birth and a surname-name is found in the list of employees of the national manufacturer of immunobiological preparations – the FSUE NGO” Microgen”. Alexander Petrov from the “Microgen” company has long denied his involvement in this whole story – https://www.gazeta.ru/social/2018/09/06/11951875.shtml

(11) On the whole, what do you show? You show b/w photo of some man, presumably Alexander Petrov. Yes, color and b/w photos are similar, but it’s unknown if this is the same one person. Then you show some very strange “trimmed” line with a title “Do not provide information”, some number and handwritten name Petrov Alexander Yevgenievich. It is unknown if the name on this trimmed line and real Alexander Petrov (the one interviewed by RT) is one same person. It is unknown what is this line (is it from some real document, or was it made in Photoshop etc). Then you show a blank passport data form with “There is a letter. S.S” title. Again, it is unknown if this passport data form has any relation to Alexander Petrov interviewed by RT.

In total, you showed some scrappy strange “documents” (they look like made in Paint 1.1 graphics editor, not even in Photoshop) and tried to “link” them to a person.
Very unconvincing.

(12) Btw, regarding your blank passport data form. What’s wrong with your “pictures-evidences”? Why so low quality, blurred, illegible? You were too haste to make a “proof”? It seems so.

Here’s the original Russian passport form:comment image

This is intended to receive or replace a passport. This is the official form.
In the upper right corner, it must be necessary indicated “Форма №1П (оборотная сторона)” (in English – “Form №1П, (reverse side)”).
In the lower right corner there will be a mark “ДПК604”.
Where’s this “Форма №1П (оборотная сторона)” and “ДПК604” on your fake picture?
Instead you have some “Do not provide information” strange title. Can’t even call this a stamp. It seems it was created in Paint 1.1 graphics editor.

Why your lines are so intermittent? The real, original form comes with normal straight smooth lines.
Sorry, your “documents” look like a cheap fake.

(13) “A source working in the Russian police force who regularly works with the central database confirmed to Bellingcat and The Insider that they have never seen such a stamp on any passport form in their career.”

You must be kiddin’? A “source working in the Russian police force” that “confirmed” something to Bellingcat? Especially a “police force” who “regularly works with the central database”? Obviously, you have no idea what rules are in force in the Russian law enforcement bodies. For such “consultations” to an outsider/foreigner, your “source” may be threatened with dismissal – and this is the softest punishment. I don’t know who your “source” is, but I very much doubt that this is a real police officer/official who has access to databases. Definitely.

(14) “..That source surmised that this marking reserved for operatives of the state under deep cover.”

So the source surmised? I mean, he not clearly stated/claimed? It means, the source, in fact, have no idea.
Ok.

(15) “Per the same source interviewed for this story, S.S. is a common abbreviation for “sovershenno sekretno”, Russian for “top secret.”

Haha, why didn’t your “source” think that the abbreviation S.S. can denote, for example, a banal name and surname of some official? For example, Sergei Savinov, or Semen Suvorov.

Btw, Russian designation “Top secret” – in fact it sounds like “Absolutely secret” – look like “Совершенно секретно”, i.e. it is written completely, not by just two letters. Sometimes “Совершенно секретно” (“Absolutely secret”) can be written a little shortened as “Сов. секретно” (“Abs. secret”), but, again, not by just two letters.
comment imagecomment image

So “S.S.” is not a “common abbreviation” for the Russian version of “Top secret”.
Does anyone in the US write “Top secret” as “T.S.”? I doubt. So what makes you think in Russia they act differently?

You talk about what you don’t have a clue about (as in many your other “investigations”).
Gluing together the conjectures, strange conclusions, dubious “documents”, you are trying to convince the reader these two guys are “GRU secret agents sent personally by Putin to eliminate Skripal and his daughter”. This is very funny. For all adequate people, it has long been clear that Russia has nothing to do with this whole story. Russia will continue to consistently and quietly expose the lies of the British authorities.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

Bellingcrap is a notorious propaganda disinformer working for MI8, NATO and the Atlantic Council. The mere mention of its name ought to invoke contempt and mirth, nothing else.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

MI8? MI6.

vexarb
vexarb

Mis-Information 8, the media arm of MI6.

J Garbo
J Garbo

Relax. Good work, but wasted on Bellingcat, a name that reeks of fake news. Any article using Bellingcat as a source can confidently be disregarded. The “Groin” has sunk to a UK govt mouthpiece and should also be disregarded, except for sports scores, menopausal confessions and fad diets.

tutisicecream

Freedland and Harding in Versionland through the looking glass.

The Graun in its never ending racist spiels about Russia has rushed to judgement again this time about the two identified tourists purported to be Skripal assassins. Freedland in his self proclaimed farce accuses Russia of messing with the truth, something which he clearly thinks is the roll of RT. Not of course the Graun??!!

However in his gleeful canter to condemn, he fails to realise that he, the Guardian and Harding have been endlessly pilloried for the same – their lack of balance even total abandonment of the facts in reporting on all things Russian. Russia did it/ Kremlinesque/ Putin Dr Evil screeds.

How best to fight for the facts? What Freedland says as Harding explaining, “Versionland”, in which there is no single truth grounded in fact but competing versions.” as though it is used exclusively by Russia, Is exactly what they are doing by accepting versions put out by government and not questioning any of the available facts.

For example the “D” notices which were issued by the British Government instructing media not to report on Miller’s connection to Sergey Skripal. Never questioned by the media and the Graun, when instructed to comply they mindlessly obey.

Because as we clearly now know the original version of the Skripals movements of the 4th March does not tie up with the movements of Ruslan and Boshirov on the same day visiting Salisbury. But why let a few inconvenient facts get in the way of joining the dots for the Darleks Freedland and Harding who only follow orders and think this is freedom of the press in Britain. How quaint, how stupid, how totally disingenuous.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/15/lies-russia-rt-salisbury-suspects-putin

So Jonathan how about a few questions for the British? Where are the Skripals? Where is DC Bailey? And of course Rowley all disappeared. Very strange for a threat of such magnitude to the British population and the tourist industry of Salisbury. But not a whisper about these inconvenient facts and of course no actual reporting of them…

Paul X
Paul X

How do citizens get to know what D notices are issued? It’s an offence to even report there are D notices in force? Currently there must be more than the one forbidding reference to Agent Miller but what about the owner or manager of the Hotel in East London? S/he could cast light on the whole business and especially whether other later occupants were sought in case they were ill? As for the staff at the Salisbury hospital….It is a bit odd isn’t it that in a country that proclaims it has a ‘free press’ Ministry of Defence Orders to keep stuff secret is commonplace?

bevin
bevin

Maybe I’m too excitable, but the Guardian stories to which you refer have all the appearance of shark jumping to me.
The story based on Bellingcat ‘research’ is a direct and sharp insult to the intelligence. While Freedland’s “Russia’s brazen lies mock the world. How best to fight for the truth?” simply turns the knife in the wound.

What is shocking is that, inevitably and in short order, the truth about these banalities will come out. Whether these people are GRU agents is not something than can now be disguised, which suggests to me that they cannot be.
Whether it is so easy to discover their ‘secret’ status that even Higgins can do it without the Home Office and MI catching on seems extremely unlikely. Obviously the pair were neither followed nor monitored, surely, were they known to be agents of the state they would have been.
The more one thinks about this case the worse it smells: it is difficult, if not impossible, to believe that neither Yulia’s visit nor the coincidental Chemical and Biological manouevres moved authority sufficiently to keep Skripal’s house under the most rudimentary surveillance. The suspicion is that the house was monitored, by CCTV, and that the records of what went on, who came, who left, when and what, if anything was done to the door lever, are being suppressed.

bevin
bevin

The Guardian is investing heavily in satire. A Carole Cadwalladr today writes:
“…These intelligence officers, we now know, worked for the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency that, in July, special counsel Robert Mueller identified as responsible for hacking the emails of the Democratic National Committee, an act that went on to play a defining role in the US election. These same intelligence officers last week went on air and took what can only be described as the piss. Because having been identified by the British authorities after months of painstaking detective work, Boshirov and Petrov coolly spun a preposterous tale about their burning desire to see a cathedral, a cathedral that in two days they never managed to visit because there was “too much slush” on the ground…”
I have never seen the Establishment so short of arguments and so ready to defend the indefensible as it seems to be over this minuscule matter. It is as if it realises that much depends on sustaining these ludicrous concoctions.
What is at stake is the right of the elite to assert that black is white and that up is down and that any dissension from these obvious facts is a sign of either mental illness or loyalty to a hostile power.

mog

Cadwalladr nailed.
Mental.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

Freedland brings that trade-mark Zionazi frenzy to his hate-filled denunciations of Russia, like his simulacrum Cohen. But the ultra-odious Cadwalladr (sic) exceeds both today with a crazy diatribe worthy of Streicher at his most unhinged. Just why these creatures are striving for a war with Russia that would exterminate humanity is the only really important question to be answered. Evil does not come more dire than this.

Kidocelot
Kidocelot

And as always comment is closed which stops us dissenting voices from pointing out the pot calling the kettle black element in asserting the Russian’s are lampooning and trolling the UK…..who have lampooned and insulted the Russian’s at every turn!

vexarb
vexarb
Mikaelvuo
Mikaelvuo

The Metropolitan Police confirmed at 5. September “that ‘low’ levels of the nerve agent were found in the two-star £48 a night hotel in May – two months after the poisonings – during part of their investigations.”

Why the police did not warn the visitors already may?
Why it did took still three months to find the 2 russians, if the police did know the hotellroom…?

Mikaelvuo
Mikaelvuo

The novitshok had to be on the surface and not in the air, because the police did take away all novitshok in two samples.
But if the hotellroon was cleaned normally after several visitors for two months, so how there where could be any samples left from novitshok?

The Metropolitan Police writes:
”On 4 May 2018, tests were carried out in the hotel room where the suspects had stayed. A number of samples were tested at DSTL at Porton Down. Two swabs showed contamination of Novichok at levels below that which would cause concern for public health. A decision was made to take further samples from the room as a precautionary measure, including in the same areas originally tested, and all results came back negative. We believe the first process of taking swabs removed the contamination, so low were the traces of Novichok in the room.
Following these tests, experts deemed the room was safe and that it posed no risk to the public.”
http://news.met.police.uk/news/counter-terrorism-police-release-images-of-two-suspects-in-connection-with-salisbury-attack-320534

Mikaelvuo
Mikaelvuo

Because now visitor did gett ill in that hotell, the amount of novitshok had to be minimal (0,0001 g). But it is possible take samples from that. Craig Murray writed: “What matters is whether they can be connected to the novichok, and here the safety of the identification of the microscopic traces of novichok allegedly found in their hotel bedroom is key. I am no scientist, but I have been told by someone who is, that if the particle(s) were as the police state so small as to be harmless to humans, they would be too small for mass spectrometry analysis and almost certainly could not be firmly identified other than as an organophosphate. Perhaps someone qualified might care to comment.” (https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/lynch-mob-mentality/comment-page-8/#comment-782606)

Jonny
Jonny

Because they are lazy and went on holiday over the summer. Now they’ve returned matters or facts don’t really mean anything, just the outcome. They say Russia is bad as it has interfered in their plans. They forget, prod the big bear enough times and eventually it will bite.

hmm
hmm

In the case of anything to do with Russia, guilty until proven ‘probably guilty’ is the norm. The indoctrination of the British people runs deep. Seemingly rational people can see that the lamestream media conduct unjustified vilification campaigns against the likes of Corbyn but can’t stretch their imaginations to believe the same is being done with Putin or any other enemy of the month (past and present). But let’s take heart from the fact that the Toady program on Radio 4 has lost 800,000 listeners. The cringe-worthy explanation that it’s because listeners don’t want to hear bad Brexit news is just the usual BBC denial of fault. Newspaper circulation is fallIng – my local supermarket has a deal where you get a free newspaper with your shopping. They no longer remind anyone of this! Look around on the train or other transport – how many people are reading newspapers compared with pre Iraq war times? The mainstream is a busted flush. And good riddance. The only people who discuss the media in earnest is the media. As a former newspaper journalist i am profoundly embarrassed for them.

vexarb
vexarb

Warning, this video is from Utube. I have not viewed it, because I no longer view Utube:

https://youtu.be/wBaVe19amhU

Matt
Matt

A leaker from the Russian government gave Bellingcat access to the pair’s passports. The findings? If these two men aren’t agents of the GRU, then pigs will start flying.

The passport data showed various.. oddities.

First, please read the article. And don’t let RT’s smearing of Bellingcat get in your way; the former is still bitter about the latter’s debunking of Russia’s multiple, contradictory conspiracy theories about MH17.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/14/skripal-poisoning-suspects-passport-data-shows-link-security-services

My Reddit comment explaining my thoughts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/9fy2x8/skripal_poisoning_suspects_passport_data_shows/e602tzb/

Matt
Matt

I would very much appreciate it if Off-G, in the interests of debate, posted Bellingcat’s article about the passports.
In my opinion, it’s a slam dunk.

I don’t think the Russian government was involved, however. It’s likely that these GRU agents had links to organized crime in Europe, and Skripal senior’s work with various state and private intelligence agencies irked a mobster’s ire. Similarly, I suspect this is why Litivenko was killed. False flags pretty much never happen, despite the alternative media’s penchant for discussing them.

Charles Wood
Charles Wood

I suggest they do that at the same time publishing the excellent takedown of the Bellingcat article by Elena Evdokimova at https://twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1040764359998230528

And the text of the Netherlands law 138ab about illegal access to a computer system or the use of data stolen from a computer system – similar laws apply to Eliot Higgins in the UK – given this series is part authored by Daniel Romeijn in the Hague, along with Aric Toler in the US, and Eliot Higgins in the UK

Article 138ab
1 With a term of imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine of the fourth category, a person who deliberately and unlawfully invades an automated work or part thereof shall be punished as guilty of computer intrusion. At least there is a question of intrusion if access to the work is acquired:
a. by breaching a security,

b. through a technical intervention,

c. using false signals or a false key, or

d. by assuming a false quality.

2 A term of imprisonment not exceeding four years or a fine of the fourth category shall be punished for computer intrusion if the perpetrator subsequently processes or transmits data stored by means of the automated work in which he is unlawfully taken over by himself or another party, drains or records.
3 If a prison sentence of no more than four years or a fine of the fourth category is punished, a computer trespass will be punished through a public telecommunications network, if the perpetrator subsequently
a. with the intention of making use of processing capacity of an automated work with the intention of making use of himself or of another person unlawful;

b. through the automated work in which he has invaded gains access to the automated work of a third party.

Matt
Matt

Russia’s First Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN retweeted that thread by Elena Evdokimova:

https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1040791463402135552

Elena first claimed they looked “Ukrainian”. Thats about the “quality” of work we’ve come to expect from Russia and its associates. Disgustingly xenophobic.
comment image

Regarding the hacking claim, I have only two things to say about that:

After so passionately defending WikiLeaks and its release of hacked materials, why do you all suddenly have an urge to prosecute hackers of important information? I thought that releasing hacked information was “ethical” as long as it shed light on the truth. What happened to all that? Hypocrites.
There is no evidence that Russia’s passport database was hacked, or that the Bellingcat folks did it. First, Russia has not presented evidence of the database being hacked, nor have they even officially made this claim. It could have been an inside source that released these files. In fact, this is what Bellingcat is claiming. After seeing Russia’s free PR for Assange, I must say, the hypocrisy over hacked information is hilarious.

Charles Wood
Charles Wood

Let me assure you that using information stolen from some information system by any means including ‘hacking’, bribery, and physical theft is a criminal offence in all of the EU. This is in addition to the actual crime of unlawful access to an information system which does not have to be in the EU.

Your friends Eliot Higgins and Dano Romeijn are both in EU jurisdictions that enforce this. They have admitted to using stolen personal information from an online retailer website. This is in addition to using information illegally obtained (stolen) from government records by some means.

To be frank, I don’t think the Bellingcat group are clever enough to do an even basic hack, and rely on some dissident Russians or Ukraniane to do it for them. Their crime is either commissioning the hack and/or using information they know has been criminally stolen against EU law.

My day job is forensic analysis of crimes involving computer and communication technology and I am intimately familiar with the law in a number of jurisdictions. You?

And as I don’t recall ever ‘passionately defending wikileaks’, can you point out exactly where?

manfromatlan

As a one time Wikipedian I can confirm that ever since Jimmy Wales married a Blair appendage the site has gone way down. Their metric is not verifiable truth but that as long as it’s reported by a ‘reliable source’ (usually western media but also various front NGO’s) then it gets special protection from their sub-editors, witness the numerous malicious edits to the George Galloway/ Vanessa Beeley/ Brian Whitaker pages.

manfromatlan

That would be Tony Cartalucci’s 2012 piece
US State Department’s Russian “Journalist”
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/05/us-state-departments-russian-journalist.html

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

Only a hasbara troll would utter such a ludicrous lie as ‘..false-flags pretty much never happen..’. The audacity of the lying is typical.

vexarb
vexarb

Mulga, the Hebrew word for that typical audacity is “hutzpah” — a lie so audacious it takes one’s breath away. Like St.Theresa of Westminster with her Novijokes.

vexarb
vexarb

St.Theresa told such dreadful lies / It made one gasp and rub one’s eyes
And when in the House Theresa spoke / They rolled on the floor with the Novijoke.

— with apologies to Hilaire Belloc

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

And it is also Adolph Hitler’s ‘Big Lie’ process in action.

mog

Strange ‘slam dunk’.
Aside from the consideration of how the alleged ‘anomalies’ can be explained by mundane reasons, we should wonder at the logic of Bellingcat’s article.
Why do secret operatives create fake personas? I mean what is the point of creating a fake persona nine years ago and then living under it openly, even going on TV before a hundred million people as that fake persona ? It’s just ridiculous. Real operatives use fake identities for a specific job then abandon them so as to be able to function afterwards under their real (or a different) identity.
Or is Higgins suggesting that Petrov and Boshirov (NB no passport story there) are their real birth identitites? In which case, why did they travel under their real identities with their ‘Spy’ passports, instead of simply taking an alias for the most high profile assassination attempt of the century?

Admin

This is clearly some new usage of the words ‘slam dunk’ we weren’t previously aware of.

But you know we may just do that – with our own commentary added

manfromatlan

Wherein those strange personalities at Bellingcat get so impressed with their own internal verification processes they automatically validate their own arguments’ LOL. One sees similar self-
validation in every emanation from Q/4chan which is just another western psyop in my opinion.

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

You don’t honestly think Bellingcat have the slightest idea what they’re talking about when it comes to the details of GRU agents getting passports, do you?

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain

‘Bellingcrap’ is an agent of the USA, of the NATO Atlantic Council and a proven disinformer. Must try harder, hasbaranik.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym

‘Hasbaranik’ is good, Mulga. But it’s not sufficiently derisive to the deliberately-deceitful goons who do it (‘Matt’ being one, perhaps?). Try ‘hasbarollocks’ and ‘hasbarollockser’. Both portmanteau words; I needn’t detail the other word besides ‘hasbara’ that’s included, need I? Good British-English word meaning both ‘testicles’ and ‘utter rubbish’.

PS: I hope the Off-Graun editors won’t contaminate this website by giving any space – and thus some possible credence – to the USukiznato-axis propaganda-mediawhore Eliot Higgins’ lie-stream. Anyone wishing to wade in that 30-piecesofsilver-funded moral cesspool can google him, if they really feel the need. In an honestly-run world, Higgins would be one of a multitude of minor, fourth-rank war-criminals on trial as enabling accessories to high crimes against humanity by the first-rank Western gangsters-in-high-places; in the dock of a new international Nuremberg 2 tribunal.

And should you happen to read this, Eliot: Do sue for libel. I dare you! I keep emailing the same challenge to Comical Ollie Kamm, whenever I call him out publicly as the professional liar and smear artist for the Murd gang that he is. But he always chickens out. Just asks me to stop emailing him… Courage of his convictions, eh? As a frail, white-haired old seventy-eight-year-old, I’d have such fun conducting my own defence against you lying toxic clowns. The McLibel show wouldn’t hold a candle to it! :O)

Martin Larner
Martin Larner

All that “gets in my way” is Bellingcat’s record of spurious propaganda and their equally spurious funding sources. You’re getting into the realms of intelligence agency disinformation here, which will be kicked out by all parties in an attempt to muddy the waters. Bellingcat are funded and connected to that.

alaffcreator

“Russia’s multiple, contradictory conspiracy theories about MH17”

Haha, you must be kiddin’? It has long been clear who shot down the plane. The name of this country begins with the letter U. For some incredible reason, this country participates in the “commission of inquiry”. Naturally, the “conclusions” of this commission are objective and unbiased. Sure.

Russia has provided (let’s note – provided on a voluntary basis, because Russia was not obliged to) already enough factual and serious material, clearly speaking about who shot down the plane. A large-scale scientific experiment, declassified data on “BUK”, original radar data and other. But for some reason “commission of inquiry” (the one who’s “objective and unbiased”) prefer “not to see”, to ignore all this important data. What’s wrong, haha? Instead, the “investigation” is based on some data and photos from social networks (whose authenticity/reliability, by the way, has long been exposed), and “investigations” of some bloggers.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher

Russian passport holders need a visa to visit the UK. This means the government would have already known about these two’s passports well in advance of their arrival in the UK. I’m not sure whether getting the visa as a Russian is as complex as getting a visa when you’re from India or West Africa (can anyone help with info?) but I’d guess there would be some checks on the applicants since Russians would be regarded as an overstay risk.

So its quite possible that the passport information didn’t come from a Russian leaker but the UK government itself. It just adds another layer of confusion; I only mention it because the story seems to be fine tuned to fit a British person’s experience of global travel (which is mostly visa-free for tourists).

Admin

You think the Russian security agencies stamp the words ‘top secret’ on their agents’ passport applications?Just to make sure everyone knows how secret they are?

Has anyone yet shown the smallest piece of evidence that this is what the initials even mean?

FYI – Bellingcat has no skills, no training, does NO research, and is simply a conduit for third rate fake ‘intelligence’ the professionals don’t want to be associated with. They gave him the shoddy BUK nonsense and now this. Too silly. Reddit is where anyone who believes this junk belongs

Matt
Matt

Sorry, but the story was about INTERNAL passport files, so no, Russian intelligence does not stamp “top secret” on the public passports of their agents. Reading comprehension fail.

Russia’s First Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN retweeted this popular thread attempting to debunk Bellingcat:

https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1040791463402135552

Read this reply:

https://twitter.com/ASpinOfTheWheel/status/1040963253898235904

Zakharova confirmed that the leaked files are real:

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1040679184396374018

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1040937364657459205

Google translation of the tweet by the Russia MFA:

“And again, a hoax from the “storytellers” from Bellingcat. We really need only guess where you got the data from FMS. Hacked you “base” or you just bought it, it remains on your conscience.”

More tweets:

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1040670751005859840

Combine the above information with the phone number, and it’s obvious these guys are Russian intelligence agents. It’s funny how some people are saying the phone number belongs to a mattress retailer, claiming the area codes were swapped a few years ago. Fine. Let’s assume that’s the case. Out of all the locations that this mattress retailer could have its phone number swapped with, it just HAD to be with a building belonging to the Russian MoD? Wow. What a load coincidences.

Incidentally, Zakharova also accidentally vouched for the quality of Bellingcat’s MH17 work:

http://tass.com/politics/1021728

“Zakharova also recalled that earlier this website almost monopolized the right to the truth in investigating the MH17 crash in Donbass in 2014. “They provided such details, which could not have been collected by the entire scientific and research institute, not to speak about a private company.”

The funny part is that Bellingcat simply analyzed open information, including satellite images and such, to arrive at their conclusions about MH17. None of it ever came from “secret sources”, nor did it ever rely on leaked information!

Russia lied multiple times about MH17, and you fell for it. Just admit it. Remember Carlos, the fake air traffic controller introduced to the world by RT Spanish, as the man who knew an SU-25 shot down MH17? He was tracked down and is a convicted fraudster, not to mention he was never an ATC working in Ukraine:

https://www.rferl.org/a/catch-carlos-if-you-can-mh17-russia-ukraine/29065244.html

Did your favourite media outlet, the one that you believe blindly, retract their false article? Did they issue a correction that this information was false? What about the hundreds of millions of people in Russia and around the world, who fell for these lies? Do they know the truth?

No.

Look in the upper right-hand corner of that RFE/RL article. A measly 1100 social media shares. How pathetic the U.S. government has become at counter-propaganda. That’s why the rag known as RT didn’t bother retracting their disinformation. Because they knew that their useful idiots, many commenters here included, simply would never see this article. Ignorance is bliss after all. So they made the calculation that it would be better to let the story fade away into obscurity.

Will Off-G and the other alternative media fake news platforms that published these lies retract their articles?

Never.

You are dishonest and have no right to take the moral high ground merely because you make some anti-war statements. A lie is still a lie, regardless of how you present yourselves.

The above is one example of a major lie told by Russia. There are many more. Shall I discuss them some more? The lies about a mythical SU-25, “false flags”, oligarchs/Nazis trying to shoot down Putin’s plane (my personal favourite), etc.

Admin
Admin
Admin

The fact you blindly trust the idiot-level propaganda put out by the western media, even to the point of thinking the lamentable underwear salesman Eliot Higgins is a serious source is your personal tragedy. By all means believe what you need to believe, since serious analysis, comprehension or basic sense are beyond you, but don’t trash this site if you want to continue posting here – that’s trolling, and we don’t permit it.

Further name-calling will be erased.

Matt
Matt

You literally just ignored everything I just said.

You refused to argue against even a single one of my points.

You refuse to admit that you were wrong about thinking these passports were public ones; they were internal files, hence the “tops secret” markings.

You refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs admit that the passport data is completely real and true.

You refuse to acknowledge that Russia has been caught lying about MH17, including the fact that Carlos was a fraudster.

When you found out that you made mistakes when interpreting the article, you instead decided to make an ad hominem attack against Higgins. So what that he used to sell underwear? Does that change anything about Russia lying about MH17? Or Carlos being a fraudster? Or the Russian MFA admitting that the passport data is real?

Please, I’m begging you, address my points. Or at least have the humility to admit that you are wrong.

I also have one more thing to say: a commentator here has been harassing me and claiming I am a “Hasbara”. Why haven’t you removed those comments? Is it because you simply wanted to find some way to avoid arguing against my points and thus, struggling to find something to criticize, decided to criticize my use of the term “useful idiots”?

https://off-guardian.org/2018/09/13/open-thread-skripal-suspects-interviewed-on-rt/#comment-130817

https://off-guardian.org/2018/09/13/open-thread-skripal-suspects-interviewed-on-rt/#comment-130815

manfromatlan

Funny, how comments disappear or don’t show on the Bellingcat site and they tend to block people on Twitter (I suggested the Bana El Abed story was fake since East Aleppo was served by 3G networks therefore they couldn’t post video from there but instead of rebutting, they blocked 🙂

Matt
Matt

I agree that blocking people is bad, but considering that Bellingcat has been the subject of unprecedented attacks (sometimes personal) by a government, its state media and various allied Western “independent” media outlets, it can probably get frustrating dealing with all the state-sponsored abuse. This could lead to preemptive blocking of critics online.

manfromatlan

I see Bellingcat references my friends Yulia Latynina and Novaya Gazeta to confirm their specious Russian MOD “connection”.
Source: https://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/2018/09/14/145085-novaya-gazeta-obnaruzhila-dopolnitelnye-dokazatelstva-vozmozhnoy-svyazi-cheloveka-obvinyaemogo-v-otravlenii-skripaley-s-ministerstvom-oborony-rossii?utm_source=push

Except Yulia, and I, have er, history 🙂
Russia. Journalism?
https://manfromatlan.blogspot.com/2017/09/russian-journalism.html

Matt
Matt

Admin, I would like a proper response to my claims, especially for those which directly contradict your own claims.

I’m sorry for the insults I used before; they were counter-constructive to the spirit of debate, and won’t happen again.

Paul X
Paul X

No, there is no need to tell us about it, we understand your meaning already

manfromatlan
manfromatlan
Matt
Matt

I already read that response. There are numerous mistakes made. First, the author forgets that these are internal passport files, not ones that are open to the public, hence, the “top secret” markings. Admin made the same mistake.

Secondly, the author refuses to acknowledge that someone from Russia could have given Bellingcat this information. It’s completely plausible.

Thirdly, the author repeatedly claims the documents are fake, claiming they were faked, due to their blurriness and squiggly lines. The author forgets that the documents were scanned, and potentially a long time ago, by the Russian government. So it’s not the fault of Belligncat that the documents are blurry. Also, the Russian Foreign Ministry has already confirmed the documents as being real, and is now claiming that Bellingcat either hacked or bought the information online, or that a “Western special service” gave them the data to leak. This lack of denial and accusation all but confirms that the information is real. There is no longer any doubt about that.

manfromatlan

My mother in law, who actually reads Russian, says the spokeswoman “confirmed” no such thing (it could be she asked you to have your sources, ie: British passport control to confirm it).

Pty your lot uses Microsoft translate, LOL

Matt
Matt

Of course she never directly confirmed it. But not only did she not deny it, she accused Bellingcat of “hacking” the information, or getting it from “Western specials services”. This implies that the information is real.

But it gets better:

The passport number was issued by the “VIP” Federal Migration service (unit 770-001), which is used when granting passports in sensitive or high-profile cases. For example, here is the passport of the actor Gérard Depardieu, who received his passport after Putin signed an Executive Order granting him Russian citizenship:
comment image

So, Petrov and Boshirov are just your normal sports vitamin salesmen, right?

Witnesses have now come out, who were near the pair when they stayed at a hotel. They say that the pair invited a prostitute to their room, had loud s*x, and there was the smell of cannabis coming from their room:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/russia/article-6172497/Novichok-suspects-drug-fuelled-night-cannabis-prostitutes-75-night-London-hotel.html

Quotation:

“A guest who recognised the pair from CCTV images released by police told the newspaper: ‘I could smell weed from their room. It was by the door and in the corridor, it was unmistakable. It must have been around 7pm.

‘Later there was a woman in there. I think she was a prostitute. They were having sx. Definitely. I heard them having really loud sx for a long time.

‘It was definitely a woman. I don’t think the men were having s*x with each other.”

Also, according to the Telegraph, the pair were ordered to go on Russian TV for punishment for their botched and unprofessional assassination attempt:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/15/russian-secret-services-crisis-fallout-botched-salisbury-attack/

Quotation:

“Russia’s secret service is in crisis after the botched assassination attempt of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

The GRU, Russia’s military intelligence service, have been accused of ‘crossing the line’ by rival agencies over the way they attempted to kill the Skripals.

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Bohirov, the two secret service agents accused of carrying out the attack, were ‘wheeled out’ onto Russian state TV as a punishment for leaving a messy trail of evidence behind them in the lead to the Salisbury attacks.”

I’d like to remind you of the context that many are forgetting:

A few hours before the interview, Putin said this:

“I would like to call on them so that they can hear us today: they should go to some media outlet. I hope they will come forward and tell us about themselves,” Putin said.

Less than 24 hours later, the pair “voluntarily” requested the editor-in-chief of RT for an interview.

It’s all coming out in the open now, just like with MH17.

mog

A good run Matt, but all you have is a presumption of guilt and the unverified statements of known liars, all wrapped around a story that is patently ridiculous from start to finish. All told by a group of desperate sociopaths with an obvious motive to throw out the long held principles of justice and shore up their own diminishing power.
https://www.theblogmire.com/petrov-boshirov-and-the-burden-of-proof/
I might be wrong, but until I see something proven or even just credible…

mog

RT on MH17 story from today.
The JIT include Ukraine, but exclude Russia, and consider evidence from Bellingcat- who is qualified how exactly?

https://www.rt.com/news/438596-mh17-downing-russian-briefing/

Thomas Peterson
Thomas Peterson

Yes I read it. Total pile of bollocks.

D'Esterre
D'Esterre

“Yet they are also cagey about their business and personal life.”

As would anyone be, were they suddenly thrust into the public eye in this fashion.

“How many tourists visit Salisbury cathedral every year?”

We visited that cathedral in late November/early December, supposedly the tourist off-season. But there were many tourists there alongside us. We were visiting the UK from overseas at the time. Not from Russia, as it happens…

“…it is foolish to seize on the translated words of two obviously anxious men as evidence of guilt.”

I’m not surprised that they were anxious: wouldn’t any of us be, suddenly being adjudged guilty of a crime in such circumstances? To my mind, this bespeaks innocence: the truthful story has gaps and inconsistencies.They weren’t expecting to have to explain themselves. If they’d given a smooth account, I’d have concluded that it was a narrative, a just-so story, designed to exculpate themselves.

“…the “official narrative” is so full of holes in terms of the timeline, logistics, motive and method.”

Indeed. You could shoot peas through it. Which suggests that, whatever happened to the Skripals (fentanyl or similar overdose, Montezuma’s Revenge), the incident was seized upon by the UK authorities as a convenient (Syria, World Cup, Russian presidential election) pretext for blaming Russia. And the unfortunate Amesbury couple were – qu’on dit – collateral damage, in an attempt to shore up the holes in the original narrative.

vexarb
vexarb

@D’Esterre. And St.Theresa regime is still trying to shore up those miraculously multiplying holes. Yesterday Admin detected the regime trotting out “a friend of the Skripals” to confess that he had made a mistake when he testified that the Skripals had left their house in the morning, before the plane from Russia had even landed; his new story has the Skripals waiting patiently in their house until well after the “Russian suspects” had left the airport, so now they had enough time to commit that dastardly doorknob Novijoke — always supposing they did not waste that time wandering around Salisbury and visiting the cathedral.

remorris
remorris

They still look like a couple of gay guys to me., struggling not to say they were there for love, caught out by the cruelties of the odious MI6/tereason MAY psyop.