OPEN THREAD: Brexit – Deal or No Deal?
Theresa May’s proposed “deal” for leaving the European Union has been criticised by MP’s from all across the political spectrum. Cabinet Ministers have resigned, jobs have been refused, letters of no-confidence have been sent.
Where is this going?
Will we see a Tory leadership election? If so, who’s going to win it?
If the deal is voted down by Parliament, a vote of no confidence in Theresa May is almost inevitable.
A vote of no confidence will almost certainly trigger a new General Election.
A General Election Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party would be favourites to win.
This puts the anti-Corbyn Blairite MPs in a difficult position – will they ruin what’s left of their credibility by backing the “deal” proposed by the Tory government? Will they call for an election and hope to replace Corbyn if/when Labour win? Or will we see a third Labour leadership election?
Discuss below.
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This changes everything. Everything we think we know about Brexit is a lie. This is the deal, the whole deal, and nothing but the deal. NO ONE voted for this, and a “People’s Referendum” won’t change a thing. Everyone, whether Leave or Remain, should unite to reject it, or so I would hope. The Whitehall farce, the media circus, the Chequers deal/no deal, the Withdrawal in out, shake it all about …are just mendacious counterfeited distractions. There has only every been one agenda, and this is it.
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/emergency-briefing-defence-and-security-david-ellis
Maybe we should have another Referendum on whether we should have another Referendum.
The idea that rather than ‘stupid’ or failure is by design rather than by error has a basis in human ‘psychology’ or more accurately in our psychic-emotional defences. Some of this is reflected in deliberate blocks to true progress or human solutions in fear of losing budgets, funding, markets, protections, privileges and any other attribute of a sense of maintaining or increasing power, or control with regard to protecting such invested identity. Attachment to a failed or outdated model is an inflexibility or refusal to change that consolidates power in the ‘establishment’ as it clings to the power to outsource (dump) the pain-consquence of its false thinking and resulting actions onto the ‘unworthy’ or un-personed or de-voiced population. Opening the IDEA of people having a voice (the ‘brexit strategy’) is dangerous and therefore overseen as a ‘managed debate’ in which nothing ‘threatening’ to the existing order is to be allowed… Read more »
Don’t think for a moment that the EU has seized enough power from its constituent states. https://twitter.com/Tim_R_Dawson/status/1063801536571236354 The pro-EU ideologues must be blinded by dogma not to see this. The EU is like the parasite toxoplasma gondii which infects the brain into not fearing predators. In 20 years I will be dead but by then, your children and grandchildren will be living under a dictatorship and will probably love their dictators. But I will die knowing that did not cheer the occupying EU army as they marched through the streets as some will. Wait, what EU army? The one that conspiracy theorists warned about and were deservedly ridiculed for. The one which on the eve of the referendum, europhiles scoffed at the ridiculousness of the idea. The one which they started talking about in real terms the very next day. The one which Merkel and Macron are now calling for… Read more »
I assume that the person who gave my comment the thumbs down watched the video clip of Guy Verhofstadt and thought, yeah, that’s what we need to do, transfer more sovereignty and powers to the EU. Either that, or they didn’t bother to watch the clip because they were did not want to hear the truth coming from the mouth of somebody for whom furthering the EU’s agenda is a mission.
Oh. I’m sorry , I thought we had already give it to them, have we found some more powers we didn’t know we had and handed that to them as well? those nasty Europeans taking 0.7 % of our total expenditure which we GIVE every year, and those nasty laws they impose on us until you ask them which ones are they, then the idiots can’t tell you, maybe you could, you seem to know what you’re on about?
“I assume that the person who gave my comment the thumbs down…”
I have hit the occasional random, non-cancellable thumb just aiming for the cancellable ‘Reply’ on my informal (tablet) browser rather than my formal (desktop) system. Bad UI ergonomics.
Indeed I have also. But I note the mind’s capacity to project itself into circumstances that are in fact unverified – and react emotionally as if they are true. As for giving up power of choice or decision making such as is at least hinted at in ideas of soeverignty – to the EU – the question is then to who or to what are the idea of consensual and relational choices or outcomes given up to? The people fronting the organisation(s) involved are not their backers or handlers, and the ideas that are structuring or framing such decisions as the forming and direction or purpose of the EU, are a mixture of well intentioned risk-aversion, social management, corporate hegemony (transnational powers), and technocratic pretensions. I say pretensions, because I see science is for sale, not just for funding, but for power – just as is every other human activity.… Read more »
Take it from a European (Romanian):
It only infects the brain of the ignorant brainwashed BBC indoctrinated idiots you lot have become, we won’t be going anywhere, get used to it, you’ve got your silly little blue passport what else do you want?
Huh? I don’t watch television but I cannot bear to listen to Radio Four anymore; every programme seems to be seasoned with some anti-Brexit theme or subtle injection of bias.
Out, no deal, it has been the best outcome for us from the start.
I guess you are not like most Brits in a JAM situation (just about managing), living from pay payket to pay packet.
I guess you have never worked in operations or logistics and fail to understand the depth of what crashing out of the EU will do in the REAL world.
Academics, retirees, affluents, expats, can theorise and wish for whatever they want safe in the knowledge that their own incomes will be unscathed from a no deal.
No deal is an utterly reckless outcome which the neoliberals wish for. Disaster capitalism is their playbook, causing chaos thn sweeping in to grab and transform countries and their assets. They, and anarchists.
Don’t even attempt to educate them, it wouldn’t matter if they lost their jobs and they became homeless, their children taken off them, the morons would still vote leave
Tommy, Reread what you say lest you become the the thing you say you hate. Education is not force upon anyone. But supported, encouraged or led out as their own desire to learn. If you write off the human race, even down the generations you can occupy the same template as everyone else who hates life and claims grievance as the basis for vengeful destruction as a moral duty. There IS no debate in polarised identity, so you are right not to seek to persuade another when they are no even listening. But you CAN observe the self-same attitude and act in yourself. Whoever has the awareness in the position to act from something less conflicted and conflicting than the other(s) for the sake of the whole – but in doing so will risk ‘losing’ their group identity and perhaps meet rejection. Life IS an education – until of course… Read more »
You’re obviously a highlt educated person coming out with that comprehensive reply.
A more important question how will it affect the Premier League transfer window? Will players be stuck at Calais or will they be coming via the Republic of Ireland?
The British decision rulers were never going to leave the EU. The last two years played out was simply a conditioning of the public to accept a watered down brexit or to be exact, a rejection of brexit. It also takes time to infiltrate and drive into the sand the real party that wants out of the EU, I.e UKIP.
I’m sure that this is going to be very unpopular with a lot of people but it just occurred to me that we are doing this all wrong. The UK voted to ‘leave the European Union’ – verbatim. So we should not have to negotiate our way out; we should just leave and negotiate whatever is necessary from thereon.
This whole negotiation drama is a charade to appease the remainers whilst trying to project the appearance that we have left.
We are not negotiating our way out, we are trying to negotiate some kind of arrangement after we leave,sorry if it seems a bit hard to grasp, we are the ones who have chosen to leave, and who are now trying to tell the 27 remaing countries how to run their club in our favour, are you that blind not to be able to see that.
just for a moment, lets pop into eurozone – have a chat to some normal folk in, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Germany etc …..see what they think of zee euro…or on second thoughts, perhaps not – as don’t want to burst that oh so wonderully strong and unified E.U bubble…do we ?
“Just for a moment let’s…” compare apples with apples, not oranges. Britain is a member of the EU, not the Eurozone currency union. We are leaving the EU, not the Eurozone. Try talking to people who live in the EU but are not part of the Eurozone, for example, Poland, Sweden, Denmark who have control of their own currencies. You’ll find that their socio-economic wellbeing is generally excellent. Look at where Poland came from and look at where it is now, the Polish people are massively better off. The Eurozone is a different kettle of fish. Under a single currency it is essential for the member states to abide by very strict rules, otherwise the currency falls apart. If that happened there would be chaos, blood flowing on the streets and impacts outside the Eurozone too. All countries who joined the Eurozone signed up to the rules of the currency… Read more »
Leaders are targeted, bought, installed, compromised. Puppet regimes can be installed by brute force. They can also be a bought. If your ‘leaders’ sell you into imprisonment, is it because they are slaves seeking personal privilege or protection within the prison? 1. Screw the people. 2. Set the narrative to outsource blame and consequence to the people for screwing up. Banking – financial regulation – Health – medical regulation Environment – thought regulation Industry – health and safety regulation Politics – Media regulation Now some but not all regulation operates legally above board and some of what is technically legal is done in extremely obscure or labyrinthine ways and some is an extortion racket that is protected by law or by the power to ignore or not comply to law and remain unchecked. The mind of the intent to dominate or indeed undermine any rival, threat or challenge to its… Read more »
The average voter simply cannot comprehend most of what you are explaining and indeed, short of instigating a revolution, it’s not really solvable. Voters need to look at what is put in front of them and make a choice, even going for the best of a bad bunch. Why? Because things have to carry on, businesses need to kee in business and pay their workers, schools and hospitals need to stay open, etc, etc. We can have intellectual debates and discuss Rothschild, Zionist, Bilderberg conspiracies, etc, but assuming those things are happening, none of us can really do anything about it. If you and others think that Brexit, a hard Brexit is the revolution needed to free ourselves from these sinister forces, you and they are massivley mistaken. We’ll be hurled into a Disaster Capitalism scenario and taken over by neoliberals. That’s what they intend to do? Is that what… Read more »
I haven’t met the average voter and so I cant speak for them. I wasn’t aware that voting was anything to do with effecting policy in the EU – at least the MEP’s have no such powers. If you are indicating an imminent election on the EU and therefore desire to influence voters. Go right ahead. The choices offered may be damned either way – or we would not have been offered a choice by established power. The City of London had both options covered – wasn’t that what Cameron sorted before calling the referendum on EU membership? Why did he do this? Who are his ‘advisors’? I lean to the possibility of the idea of sovereignty of the will and away from technocracy or its faceless tech-extended bureaucratic replacement – regardless the front-end ‘face’ applied. The belief that you have to ‘do something about it’ is not my sense.… Read more »
binra, Great post. Thank You.
and I thought it’d all gone Pear shaped – but as with the wizardry of any manipulated hybrid – shhhhh it’s in the appearance….as when beauty made it’s entrance , all stupefied, by the sweet promises to come…little did it realise – the house was built by scum….and vot iz dis – by 2020 all members must join the currency union – or else…boo hoo “we’ll stamp our feet and cut off your wine quota” etc etc……..but “If you fall I’ll fall with you baby?”..nahhh, .I dont think so somehow – because nights fallin, on the wet dreams home – buts gettin harder to see stars for storm clouds….above the Treaty of Rome. Hey-Ho.
🙂
I’m quite happy to have a difference of opinion about EU membership with anybody but I have no time for anybody who didn’t like the result of the referendum and supports pulling any trick out of the book to reverse it. My God, I have had to live with election results that have not gone the way I wanted going right back to the 1975 referendum when I was three years too young to vote. I have never once cried foul, demanded a rerun or moaned incessantly like a rheumatoid ghoul. Does anybody think that Brexit supporters would have been behaving like this had the result gone the other way. This abhorrent behaviour stems from the arrogance of the remainers believing that the result was in the bag just like the supporters of Hillary Clinton. If this decision is reversed by any means, by a second referendum or by political… Read more »
@ Okulo “I have no time for anybody who didn’t like the result of the referendum and supports pulling any trick out of the book to reverse it.” Give me a moment. What if there was vote manipulation? What if people were targetted and individually served up a personalized adverts on their facebook accounts? And such adverts weren’t cleared for advertising standards? Or declared in the brexiters spending? i.e it is clear voter manipulation FaceButt have refused to say how much they charged for the billion ads, to how many people, or what these ads were. The purpotrators, the self proclaimed bad boys of brexit and others who set up the data, using Cambridge Analytica, AIQ, and the ovetarching SCL, deep state controlling setup, who proudly claimed how they stole the referendum – are ignored by the politicians, MSM, police and the Electoral Commission. If they got just one person… Read more »
Remain outspent Leave by over 2 to 1. The referendum was rigged – it was rigged in favour of Remain. And they still lost anyway.
@DunGroanin I could not have created a more accurate caricature of my point if I had spent five years at art school. You illustrate my point with grotesque precision.
If only you were to live up to your soubriquet.
The question is whether the old Western Powers wish to carry on in the old way? It appears that all the old nations are fixated by economic liberalism as a means of growing an economy. Austerity as it’s called is in actuality an admission of defeat not a cry of triumph and the US and other acolytes had better come up with something that grows economies not shrink them. Chomsky calls austerity ” Class War ” and it is just that. The western governments have always transferred most growth in GDP to the rich and the better off so, nothing new there but the Financial Crash temporarily cost the asset classes dearly but they knew they could rely on their government backers to come to the rescue.And rescue them with no strings attache or quid pro quo they did. Put simply the Crash is THE reason for austerity. Relative to… Read more »
Most Brexiteers have benefited from the UK being in Europe for 4 decades but are denying younger generations the same opportunity. Britains economy was utterly broken until we joined the EEC.
I’m alright Jack and I’m pulling up the drawbridge is the typical Brexiteer mindset. Not all, but the vast majority of Brexiteers who i know are selfish and spiteful bastards.
Just to add, Brexiters possess genuine concerns over democracy and sovereignty, but they are missing the elephant in the room: British democracy is what is broken rather than that of their European neighbours. That broken democracy also allows the fueling of a dangerous neoliberal worldview by an foreign and offshore based media. After Brexit the 1% will be dancing around the bonfire of workers rights and human rights and “Red tape” as England, in a disintegrating Kingdom, spirals away into a neoliberal wet dream, but nightmare for everyone else, of a deregulated corporate low tax haven, becoming the sweatshop of the Western Hemisphere. Respectable Brexiters such as Corbyn and working class voters are regrettably naive and supporting the wrong cause. Once the constituency boundaries are redrawn there will never be another Labour government. Tory neoliberals will rule the roost in Brexit Britain and make the lives of millions of decent… Read more »
The irony of you using broken democracy as an argument is astonishingly arrogant.
All EU laws are de facto UK laws until they are repealed by acts of Parliament, they don’t just vanish into thin air. The British population would have to elect a government who stated in their manifesto that they were going to repeal EU human rights laws for that to happen. And that is never going to happen.
For you to propagate this myth shows that you are either ill informed, misinformed or deliberately spreading disinformation.
It’s not just BREXIT, and you may think It’s all closing in. I know of all sorts of people, of every political persuasion, who have had, not just their comments deleted, but their blogs closed down, and everything deleted without warning, notice or reason.
It’s not just me, but the internet doesn’t work like that. It was designed to maintain communications, even in the event of a nuclear war, by The American Military Industrial Complex. it was made available to everyone by Tim Berners Lee. He gave the World Wide Web away for free. I used to work for the same British company at the same time as his Dad – Conway Berners Lee, who is still alive and well at the age of 97. Any obstacle, can be routed round, often almost automatically or relatively simply.
“Nine Inch Nails – Head Like A Hole”
Tony
You do realize that linking to a video like that is essentially an act of violence against people who are attempting to keep a clear head here while they try to make sense of this messy subject… Let’s by all means enjoy Nine Inch Nails when the mood takes us, but let’s also not give anybody good reason to close our blogs down without warning. Noise pollution and unauthorized shock treatment are recognized offences today.
Sorry wardropper. What exactly is allowed? Is this O.K? I Don’t watch TV.
“Peter Gabriel – Shock The Monkey”
Tony
I’m fairly certain that what we are going to see here is exactly how many figs our “representatives” do actually give for us. Brexit has, predictably, become the proverbial hot potato that nobody has the nerve to handle. They’ll all just run away from it as fast as they can. It’s simply too much hard work, and I am sure a comfortable early retirement suddenly looks very appealing to many of our utterly decadent Westminster relics.
The “Establishment” we are stuck with at the moment belongs in an ancient history book, and anything we can do to hasten its relegation to that domain has to be a good thing for human kind.
Moved out of UK to Spain thanks to being in the EU. Could only do that 40 years ago with millions in the bank. There are aspects of being in Europe that bypasses many of the brexiteers and millions of Brits in Spain are hardly mentioned. The UK got cold feet once they started talking about an EU army and Germany getting access to nuclear weapons would be an interesting scenario after the last world war when most of Europe flattened Germany.
Just some aspects that seem to go over peoples heads. Good and bad.
In the real world, there are still men and women of courage and integrity, and most are much younger than all the occupants of Westminster, including The Civil Service.
Thank God, I never worked for any of them.
They are all completely useless. In fact they are a disgrace.
I know some of them. I mix with them socially, but no one I know would employ any of them.
Tony
While deceit has ever worked the mind of man – both in himself and to others, these times lead me to take nothing at face value. The sideshow politics is a divide and rule by appeal to side with invested identity and against identified threats. As a drama it is exciting, fearful or exhilarating and thus has all the qualities of an addiction or persistent diversion from un-owned and un-faced relational experience. So I am not writing to the drama here. My sense is that ‘one hand’ works both or all ‘sides’ of conflict in a way that MAY be to some degree conspired or contrived but is also the nature of the power of denial. Or rather the power given denial of the true feeling – where such feeling is self-conflicted,self-contradictory or chaotic. The mind makes an overlay reality by your own convictions. The mind as ‘commander’ operates the… Read more »
“Politics is the entertainment branch of the Military Industrial Complex” Frank Zappa Semantics matter. There is what is said (the locutionary act): and there is what is not said (the illocutionary act). There is even that which is not said, and not even implied. Then there is what is done regardless (the unspoken perlocutionary act) Brexit is a lie on the last two counts: that which is not spoken, written, or even implied (except very obliquely) is ‘EU Military Unification’. This has been referred to as an ‘EU Army’, and various other euphemisms, such as ‘aggregation’. David Elliss has just made the salient point: “if it has no name, no terminology, there can be no dissent or action taken against it” (my phrasing). The most crucial element of Brexit, the surrender of our military, followed by our military procurement, followed by our taxation, to a supra-sovereign Brussels has been mendaciously… Read more »
No excuses: here’s the archived version. It’s pretty much the whole show devoted to the topics I raised:
https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-16th-november-2018
The option that is not listed is the one that is most likely – a soft coup in parliament – to deprive us of a general election to elect a government with a sufficient majority and clear mandate to implement a manifesto that we vote for.
It is not just about Brexit.
Standby for a ‘crisis’ coalition government as the tory right splits off. The Labour right splits off and joins the tory rump for a grand centrist doctrine supported by all the live PM’s neocon banker muppets- Major through to May trumpeted in and supported by their MSM stormtroopers.
I shall be preparing to take to the streets and march on Parliament and Whitehall.
Btw, Looks if a trolley bus has pulled into O-G today – must be getting the attebtion of the new Atlantic Council type Cyberthought police.
There’s only one way of leaving that can ensure full control over our borders, law making and the judiciary, the key prerogatives of a sovereign country, it’s leaving without a deal.
You are right – we need to become as sovereign as North Korea.
We don’t need International Laws and regulations to tell us how to coexist on this planet. We have our own air and rain, we are going to stick a big glass bowl over it and not let any foreign country or superstate have any of it.
👹
Sorry but that’s delusional nonsense. Slapping automatic WTO tariffs on all imports and exports will decimate our feeble economy, aside from business in chaos and gummed up ports both sides of the Channel.
The EU is not perfect by any means but for the vast majority of Europeans they are better off in it than out (the Eurozone is a separate discussion).
The EU’s success and standing up to US corporations is the very reason that the neoliberals are hellbent on breaking it apart and the reason for Brexit.
From Heath to May, High Treason all the way
And if we still haven’t found a way of stopping it, we’re in for a pretty horrendous 21st Century.
They were never going to let it happen- too many snouts in troughs-
The UK govt. have allowed the EU to bully them, when they sell more to us than we to them!
German car makers the worst affected, plus Irish farmers, etc.
And May Kow-Tows to them!
Even the Chinese stood up eventually…
I voted Leave for those worst affected by a free movement of people- Marx’s dictum that Capitalism needs a pool of
surplus labour is so true. I had a ‘safe’ ‘job for life’ in electronics, many don’t.
You voted leave not because of your persona experience and knowledge but because you thought someone somewhere was ‘worse affected by free movement’ ?
You need to revisit that dog-whistle you reacted to and ask who told you? How? When?
Then you will know Why.
Did you see any of the BILLION facebook ads?
The only thing that almost everyone, both pro brexit and anti brexist people, seem agreed upon is that May’s Brexit deal would be an extremely bad deal for Britain. Perhaps no deal at all (and no money,no billions of pounds, paid to the EU by Britain) until such time as a more acceptable deal is brokered in good faith would be preferable. May has to go. And this deal has to be rejected.
In the 1975 referendum I voted against the then common market, When the result went against us I most certainly didn’t spend the next twentyfive years weeping but thought we’d better make the best of it. The euro changed everything. The appalling treatment of Greece, their democracy taken from them and the imposition of debt so high as to be unpayable at interest rates four times higher than that even the IMF saw as prudent. That caused barely a ripple here and seems ignored by all of those who get a warm feeling on hearing the Ode to Joy. A good friend who voted remain said to me just before the vote: ‘The EU is going to collapse sooner or later under the weight of its own contradictions. The real question is, do we leave now before it happens?’ When the worm turned in 2016 the result was utterly unexpected… Read more »
Yes, it has been the emergence of the euro which has done more than anything else to undermine the EU. A monetary policy without a common fiscal policy was never going to work and the EU is not, never was and never will be an optimal currency zone. The euro is the largest and most recent example of an optimal currency area which doesn’t work. Since the rise of the EMU and the adoption of the euro by participating European countries in 2002, the subsequent ongoing European sovereign debt crisis is cited as evidence that the EMU did not fit the criteria for a successful Optimal Currency Area. Other than arguable cultural barriers such as different languages, the EMU did not adequately provide for the greater economic integration necessary for cross-border risk sharing. As Greece’s sovereign debt crisis continued to worsen in 2015, there was discussion suggesting that the EMU… Read more »
Yes indeed, and it gives me no pleasure whatsoever to say that what those Tory backwoodsmen were warning back in the 1980s and before has turned out to be true. Almost imperceptively, step by step, we have ended up with what the Nazis had planned for Europe- a greater Germany co prosperity sphere.
Or as the second Viscount Stangate, one of the few actual socialists to belong to the UK Parliamentary Labour Party since its inception, warned at time of Britain’s entry in the EEC, as the evolving EU was then called: “Once we are in it will become difficult, if not impossible, to get out equitably.”
Or as Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, founding father of the EU said: “We (Jews) intend to turn Europe into a mixed race of Asians and Negroes ruled over by the Jews.”
‘Or as Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, founding father of the EU said: “We (Jews) intend to turn Europe into a mixed race of Asians and Negroes ruled over by the Jews.”’ A bit of a stretch there. The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today’s races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals. — Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi You need to be careful or you’ll break your carotid artery. Whatever Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi was, he was not uncouth. On the other hand he was a committed right winger and, as Nietzsche had foreseen the rise of Jewish power and a material/secular Jewish nouveau power aristocracy in Europe, Coudenhove-Kalergi saw and applauded its beginnings, while the position of Africa in his… Read more »
There is something seriously wrong in the configuration (probably) or coding (maybe), or both. of this editor.
EWG.pdf ———- You mean this plan?
Michael Hudson has a more sociopolitical take on the Euro(zone). Its relevance to the EU and Brexit lays in the ultimate implications of Gordon Brown’s conditionality stance (the Five Economic Tests) in the context of the relationship of the EU to the Euro(zone), which implications are that, in the end, a bremained Britain vill join the Eurozone (adopt the Euro) because both the EU and the Euro(zone) are expressions of the same deep, fundamental facism. The EU never (pace Varoufakis) had any intention of negotiating a workable Brexit any more than there is within the EU any intention to permit any member states ultimate fiscal indepedence of its ultimate sanction, the Euro. Fish rot from the head down. The Eurozone was designed by rightwing politicians. It was basically a fascist plan, fascist as in the 1930s, fascist as in the Austrian School. Their pretense is, “We don’t want government spending… Read more »
He comes across as a bit over the top but I think what Hudson says is in essence correct. Another good piece of his recently on Governments and Central Banks saving the banks and sacrificing the economy.
https://www.unz.com/mhudson/rescuing-the-banks-instead-of-the-economy/
I agree with you. I also voted against remaining in the ‘Common Market’ and since then I haven’t changed my mind. I think forty odd years is enough time to be able to decide whether or not something is working and I’m sure now the EU hasn’t worked, isn’t working and won’t ever work for the UK, not for ordinary people anyway.
So ‘no deal’ is fine by me – the quicker the better!
You’ve benefited from the UK being in Europe for 4 decades but are denying younger generations the same opportunity.
I’m alright Jack and I’m pulling up the drawbridge is the typical Brexiteer mindset.
Not all, but the vast majority of Brexiteers who i know are selfish and spiteful bastards.
No deal was always the only option. This has been a complete waste of two years. What the real Left need to realise is that membership of the EU is a Neoliberal prison. No EU country can elect a socialist government and then have it implement socialist policies as we have seen with Greece. Since the anti-imperialist alliance between Russia, Germany and France was destroyed by the UK and US, then the EU has also become a staunch supporter of Neocon US imperialist foreign policy. The best thing for this country would be to exit the EU with no deal and then elect Corbyn and a proper socialist government. Then real investigations into the great financial drama, 9/11, Iraq, Libya, Syria, QE and the BoE and a full enquiry into how corrupted neoliberal crony capitalism has really become enriching the 1% massively and impoverishing the masses. It turned out that… Read more »
I made that comment earlier in the Courier Mail (Australia): The brexit negotiations were handled in bad fad faith on both sides. The Tories were trying to make sure that it will fail. The EU would never allow hard brexit and neither the City of London, where the money is. The whole EU would collapse if workers from Eastern Europe, particularly from Poland and the Baltics were sent home. They are needed to be kept happy as these two countries are used to keep the sanctions on Russia. I am originally from Hungary, have been here for 30 years. Since Hungary joined the EU, the quality of life have deteriorated fast. Everything that had value were taken by the west, the remaining stuff were taken by Hungarian oligarchs, who appeared on the scene after the fall of socialism. Hospitals are rubbish, people are forced out of their homes, poverty everywhere.… Read more »
It wasn’t socialism that collapsed.
It was communism.
Socialism is alive and well throught the EU, there is need for more of it in the whole world.
Meanwhile in the real world it’s Food First. From SANA Syrian Arab News Agency: President Bashar al-Assad affirmed that _food security ensured by the agricultural sector is one of the key factors that consolidated Syria’s independent decisions over the past decades_. President al-Assad was speaking with members of the Arab Agricultural Engineers Union. The delegation members congratulated the Syrian Leadership and People on their imminent victory against terrorism, _hailing the Syrian People as productive_ whose self-sufficiency in the agricultural field was one of the factors of their steadfastness in the war _that targeted the basics of their lives_. _President Assad considered Trade Unions Political Role as the genuine intermediate between the executive authority and the people_, as well as their Social role given their proximity to all social strata. The President added that Trade Unions must assume their role in alerting to the problems befalling society, _chief among them being… Read more »
“Meanwhile in the real world…”
About 510 million people live in the “unreal” world of the current EU. The “People’s Vote” organisers may yet see the, by implication, “unreal” (or non-) people who had previously voted to leave it returned to its “unreal world” fantasy. Perhaps they could find asylum in “real” Syria? Or perhaps you should just have posted your Syria report without the categorization?
@Bob: “About 510 million people live in the “unreal” world of the current EU.” About 50 Million people lived in what I call the “unreal” world of postwar Britain: a socialist boom slowly eroded by a preoccupation with finance over production, with superpower politics over civil investment, with erosion of trade unions and technical colleges, with buying food rather than growing food, with a reliance on “invisible” banking wizardry rather than visible production. All this “unreality” led Great Britain to its present ignominious impasse; because neither In? nor Out? addresses the real issues. I believe the same fate awaits the EU$A, and for the same reasons. Dr.Assad, speaking to Trade Unionists about Food Productivity, Technological Advance and Social Cohesion is flying right on the beam. He has proved the realism backing his words by winning against NATZO and the Jihadis who represent “our irresistible armed might” of our EU$A. In… Read more »
There is no question that elites want to keep Britain in EU no matter what happens. Letting Britan escape from the clutches of EU with a minimum cost would be a bad example for the other prisoner-countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, etc. No, Britain should be made an example, showing the “futility” of even trying to escape from the EU prison. British people should be mocked and humiliated, accused of “not understanding the economy” and chided for “making the wrong choice”. So, together with their British collaborators, especially British media, they put a wool on people’s eyes. As if all of this was not discussed before the EU referendum, British people were told it was an “economic suicide” to leave the customs union with the EU. Bogus statistics and threats were printed in the Guardian and other MSM to make sure that all Brexit effort should be geared towards “staying… Read more »
Scottish independence gets ever closer. Thankyou Mrs May.
And Irish Unification. Thanks Cameron?
Then the Welsh then London then the North of England leaving just the area of Thanet for Nige and his chums to Lord it over.
Ironically May’s missives about keeping the UK together are going to blow it apart.
Then again as long as the Elites keep the Isle of Man and Jersey ( local offshore islands ) Mogg and his chums
will be quite happy and sleep well in their comfortable beds.
No tax will be paid to the EU or the UK.
A few years ago I visited an ancient copper mine in Wales. It was in operation 4,500 years ago. The archaeologists reckon that it was in operation, being worked with stone tools, for thousands of years. They estimated that perhaps as many as 10 million copper axes were produced there, and 80%+ of the production was exported to the continent. And they did it without the EU or WTO rules or anything else.
What was their life expectancy, and morbidity? Without EU or WTO rules.
But of course! Britain almost single-handedly invented what we moderns call ‘industry’. How insulting the thought that she could never survive without the EU!
Your point is? We should go back to the early bronze age where you think they had ‘no rules’? To give you a fuller understanding of which you write try this: “c. 1800 BC First industrial-scale copper mines are dug Shortly after 2000 BC the first deep copper mines were dug. Two of the best known are at Mount Gabriel in County Cork, Ireland, and Great Orme, north Wales. Another major area of prehistoric mining was in mid-Wales. Most Bronze Age mines went out of use in the Iron Age. The scale of metal production was truly industrial. Mount Gabriel is thought to have produced about 370 tonnes of copper and Great Orme 175 to 235 tonnes.” http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/timeline/neolithic_timeline_noflash.shtml It is a great time line. You may get apoplectic with : “Before circa 4500 BC, Palaeolithic and Mesolithic (Early and Middle Stone Age) people were nomads, hunting and gathering wild plants.… Read more »
DunGroanin, thanks for that timeline. 4,500 BC as the start of City Culture from The Continent and 1800 BC as the start of deep mining for copper and tin in Britain (Bronze Age) fits in well with the flourishing of The Old Silk Road, a trade route that spanned the whole of Eurasia from Britain to China via Greece, Rome, Egypt, Syria, Persia, Afghanistan and India. Goods and Ideas flowing back and forth across the EurAsian land mass (and by sea). Have you read, The Shape of Ancient Thought? I am halfway through it. The Chinese and Russians are working on a New Silk Road under the concept of A MultiPolar World. Might make In-or-Out of the EU$A seem a rather narrow ground for discussing the future of Britain. The old sea dogs of the British Merchant Marine, who saw “the dawn come up like thunder from Rangoon to China… Read more »
What is fascinating about this political crisis is that there is a time limit on sorting things out, of the end of next March, and that the stakes for the country are so high. Someone has to defuse the bomb. It is hard to see how we can simply muddle through. My guess is May’s deal will collapse and that she will be forced out fairly soon. At that point a caretaker Tory leader, such as Hunt, will be appointed and ask for more time from the EU, with Article 50 suspended. This would also stave off a Labour government. I think this interim Conservative administration would also fall, and that a Labour government is likely before the middle of next year. It may well be they end up negotiating the final deal, which will probably include membership of the Single Market and Customs Union. With the right leadership, I… Read more »
” Labour government is likely……. end up negotiating the final deal, which will probably include membership of the Single Market and Customs Union.” In other words Remain with all the geopolitical issues of EU expansionism to the East for more missile bases on our neighbours (Russia) border. More impoverishment of countries like Greece etc. I hope Corbyn stays true to his historic mantra and avoids such an outcome.
The 2016 referendum should have required a 75/25 majority in order to change the status quo – anything less would simply create a fermenting division. A new poll should now be implemented for many reasons – but we must respect the default position is now for Brexit and insist that a 75/25 majority for remain would have to be attained for Brexit to be abolished.
That is the only way through the impasse.
Maybe any MP or Tory or Labour government should also need a 75/25 majority to be elected. Or maybe the 1973 referendum to join the Common Market should have required a 75/25 majority as well. Anything less simply creates a fermenting division.
How could anyone ever advance such an argument, Mark? What’s so magic about 75/25, why not 74.5/25.5, better still some other permutation of the two numbers, over which we would argue even longer and more bitterly than we are at each others throat over Brexit. But even if we were to agree on your 75/25, the probability of ever achieving it would be close to nil. And not just on the Brexit. Demanding a result anywhere near 75/25 on a complex issue such as Brexit would cement the status quo forever. Until the nervous breakdown of the remainers, after each and every election conducted on the basis of an openly unfair FPTP system, everyone has accepted the results even though most of the MPs don’t get anywhere close to securing 50% of the constituencies’ votes. Why cannot the remainers live with the decision of the over 17.4mn people, or 52%… Read more »
Quite right. I’m sure that at the next election MPs or party leaders will say, “I only won by 52%. That’s just not enough, so I’m going to refuse to take my seat/ form a government until I get 75%.”
At least 55/45.
11 people of every 20 voting – a reasonable majority.
That is a clear 1 person majority of every 10 voters Certainly not one vote out of 33, which is the obviously unfair basis of brexit.
Why not unanimity?
What a mess! I feel a bit sorry for TM. She was handed a poisoned chalice by that craven coward Cameron who went into hiding after he lost the vote. TM has no choice but to try to implement some form of Brexit. No choice. I voted remain, but I have to some extent changed my mind. Ever get tired of being asked if you want cookies when you go on a website? Courtesy of the EU bureaucrats. The crass new data protection rules. Courtesy of the EU bureaucrats. And the new copyright rules that threaten the internet itself. All courtesy of the bureacrats of the EU. I think we would be well rid of that aspect of European influence. With that said, I still detest the brexiters. What I could never understand is why anyone fell for the “taking back control” con. Do you seriously think that Boris and… Read more »
John, so you feel a bit sorry for Saint Theresa, “handed a poisoned chalice by that craven coward Cameron who went into hiding after he lost the vote.” ? What an apt confirmation of Solzhenitsyn’s prophesy, 1978: Clip from Full Spectrum Domino BTL Saker Vineyard, November 15, 2018: I read his Harvard speech in 1978 as a young teenager in my school library. … ‘A decline in courage may be the most striking feature which an outside observer notices in the West in our days. The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole and separately, in each country, each government, each political party, and, of course, in the United Nations. Such a decline in courage is particularly noticeable among the ruling groups and the intellectual elite, causing an impression of loss of courage by the entire society. Of course, there are many courageous individuals, but they… Read more »
Solzhenitsyn’s Harvard 1978 commencement address– A World Split Apart:
https://www.solzhenitsyncenter.org/a-world-split-apart
What is really obscene about the current UK government at this particular moment is the buying of billions of US weapons of war ( which on past facts do not even work as proposed ) while at the same time the daily consumer costs have been elevated by 200 per cent in the last two years, on every day usage from 250% thinner paper products to 100% on fresh fruit and megre vegetables. No wonder the press has not commented upon these astronomic price/profit taking ?
She didn’t have to take the job.
Another example of a total incompetent dropped into a role to keep someone else out.
Just like Major, to keep Heseltine out. At least Hezza knows about how to run a business!
We certainly seem to have come to a political fork in the Road and it will be interesting to see how that reveals itself in the coming days. When I started looking into the EU, back in the run-up to the referendum. I read in it’s own manifesto that all countries would be militarily and fiscally tied to the European Project by 2025. It is my thought that the EU Army was also on the cards, as they systematically carried out, under the guise of austerity & funding cuts, which slowly dwindled the power of individual European militaries. This in readiness, to make every EU country Soverign militaries unable to function independent of one another, then the move for the left over militaries, under the guise of NATO and UN peaceful collaborative missions, to finally hand over powers to Brussels. This alongside the slow militarisation of our then Police Authorities,… Read more »
Very interesting research. It is all about the long game and as you pointed out – the manifesto for a United States of Europe, for better or for worse. There is absolutely no discussion on whether this is a positive or negative for the citizens of Europe, the fact that it is being implemented almost ‘under the radar’ gives me cause to doubt its net positive. Ireland has already signed up to PESCO – the EU army, losing its historic and constitutional neutrality with barely a squeak, infact most people I speak to don’t even know it has happened, or even how this affects them, maybe the uproar will only happen as their sons and daughters start getting conscripted. Italy’s inability to pass a budget that works for its citizens should also be raising a flag about the ‘goodness’ of the EU project. To say nothing of the state of… Read more »
Hi Lorraine
I did respond to you, but my response seemed to get lost in the ether! Either way, I agree with what you say. My feeling is all the chaos, censorship and dishonesty is engineered and just masks the fact that the Emperor has been butt naked for a while. Neuro Lingustic programming, helps with the group think narratives. Alongside the use of the Overton window to change the unthinkable into the accepted norm. It’s amazing how much film/news/media/current trends/products/celebs/sports personalities etc are used to sway you one way or another!
TheThinker Very good research, much on the lines of my own. Methinks you are a fellow UK Column subscriber? If not, you should be: especially when they have Mark Anderson on. He reports on all things ‘globalese’ (resilient cities et al). Very minor detail: EU Army = EU Military Unification. So I am very much in broad agreement with you. However, I could not let this pass unquestioned: “I now in relative terms we have never been better off, a book on factfulness I read said on 9% of the world now lives in relative poverty – but what is the baseline and who defines poverty these days[?]” You are right to question the mathematicised definition of global poverty. Neoliberal ideologues (such as Steven Pinker, Christopher Lakner, and Branko Milanovic (the latter two being of the World Bank)) have long been trying to pass off versions of this fallacious statistical… Read more »
Hello BigB Thank for your considered response along with very interesting links. Calling me out on that remark was quite right and really I should not be taking things such a statistics in a book as gospel without further research. The book I talked about interestingly is a 2nd year reading book for Sociology students, who also just accepted that if it said it, then it must be true. Yes, I am a fellow subber to your other ask, I stumbled across the Column some time ago whilst rooting around after reading Agenda 2030 and looking into Common Purpose and all its effects. That then led me down all sorts of interesting rabbit holes, which had me truly looking through the looking glass! When I found The Column, I found I knew almost everything that was there already and I’d put the pieces together. It was reassuring there were other… Read more »
TT
I hoped you watched the Column today. Clarifying the terminology for EU Military Unification turned out to be more crucial than I thought this morning. Somehow, even through our own limited social networks, we have to make it known what is going on under the Brexit deception plan. (See my comment above.)
I don’t think that they would be handing out texts to potential future sociologists with my interpolated 80% figure. It might precipitate a social revolution: heaven forbid!
The UK has been living in a nostalgic fantasy world for decades, wallowing in past glories. Turning defeats, magically into huge victories. Like Dunkirk, like the disaster that Churchill really was. Britain’s diminished role in the world, the loss of the Empire, can’t be reversed. There’s no going back. That’s why the UK joined the European Union in the first place. Better to be part of something bigger and stronger, than a mere US protectorate obeying orders. An influential European state on a par with others, like Germany and France, which after their decline were determined to find a new role for themselves, a partnership after decades of war decided nothing. Now the UK chooses to diminish itself even more by pulling out of Europe and losing the influence it has, with no real practical alternative, clinging to dreams instead. It’s madness and a tragedy. The whole idea of a… Read more »
How is it better to be part of the EU?
You could ask the people of Greece that one. Or Spain. Or Ireland. Or Portugal. 50% + youth unemployment. Policies that are identical with the IMF. Or Hungary and Poland, who are being ordered to accept a mass influx of Third World immigrants? If you had to choose a few adjectives to describe the EU, what would they be? Corrupt, arrogant, remote, anti-democratic? Is it in any way an organisation that serves the interests of ordinary people? Or those of billionaires like Soros and the huge tax dodging corporations? Do any of the EU institutions inspire the respect and confidence of ordinary people? Or is it a job creation programme for corrupt, discredited and failed political has beens?
Is the current situation a unique opportunity, that will never come again, to break free of this organisation?
Correct, more or less, but you omit the fact that the EU has also become an institution that lives within a bubble, is essentially undemocratic, and is more concerned with its own well-being than that of the citizens it supposedly exists to serve.
When you consider England’s Imperial record, with the tens of millions killed in genocides in India, China, Ireland, Scotland, Australia and North America, anything that happens to the place now is simply Nemesis, or just retribution. Unfortunately the oligarchic and hereditary parasites, for whose benefits the vast crimes against humanity were committed, will be the last to pay, as usual. I do smell the whiff of civil war, but that stink is pretty universal at present, from one end of the planet to the other.
Democracy = rule by the people. Regardless of whether you are in the remain or leave camp, what is unfolding before our eyes shows the truth…the uk is an elected dictatorship. Remainers have absolutely no need to worry, the uk dictators never had any notion to allow us to leave the EU, and have been subverting democracy for 2 years. Originally, I was happy to remain, not now. I don’t want to live in a dictatorship and remainers be careful what you wish for, EU army is on the way. Would anyone be happy for the Government to have a referendum on paedophilia so they no longer have to protect their friends in high places? We would all vote no, our government refuses to let our decision stand, how would we feel if our kids were then victims? Project fear was ridiculous, I’ve even read recently we may run out… Read more »
Two months ago May was saying this… makes her look rediculous ————————————————- While both sides want a deal, we have to face up to the fact that – despite the progress we have made – there are two big issues where we remain a long way apart. The first is our economic relationship after we have left. Here, the EU is still only offering us two options. The first option would involve the UK staying in the European Economic Area and a customs union with the EU. In plain English, this would mean we’d still have to abide by all the EU rules, uncontrolled immigration from the EU would continue and we couldn’t do the trade deals we want with other countries. That would make a mockery of the referendum we had two years ago. The second option would be a basic free trade agreement for Great Britain that would… Read more »
I can imagine that the EU is quaking in its boots at your display of British bull-dog spirit.
General elections can be fixed through postal votes once they’ve been processed and checked. The slips are then put in containers waiting in council offices to be mixed in with the polling station votes on election day.. A ‘cleaner’ could enter the offices overnight and swap the bags for bags filled with just Tory votes The postal vote is very important because it’s usually is about 20% of the total. Therefore, swapping containers would be very effective in marginal seats.
This is the United Kingdom not the US. We count our votes.
Postal votes are also useful as ‘canaries’, to indicate which constituencies require ‘adjustment’.
I voted for Brexit for what may sound like an unusual reason. I had to do some work for the Local Authority and got to know some of the local council officials. One of these was the Electoral Returning Officer, the man in charge of the ballot boxes and the pencils. I asked him who the Common Market MP/ MEP/ whatever, was. He didn’t know. Nobody else I asked did either, like some local reporters. I made quite a few enquiries but I could never find out. Whoever it was, you wouldn’t know him if he jumped up and bit you. He/ she? obviously just merged into the wallpaper in Brussels and lined their pockets and strutted around feeling important. Whatever you think of Westminster MPs, at least you know who they are. I would guess, seriously, that maybe 1 person in 100,000 know who their Common Market MP is.… Read more »
Corbyn will NEVER be allowed to become PM-by one means or another.
‘If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. ‘ Jeremy Corbyn Leader of the Labour Party This is the part that strikes me – taken from Jeremy’s email to Labour party members. His and the party’s commitment to the ‘public vote’ , a betrayal of the referendum has maybe sealed his fate. If a general election is not held – more likely not, then the Labour party will be handed the poison chalice of betraying the referendum. I have maintained that the the referendum was more about signing us in to the new, more integrated EU, complete with its own army and loss of printing your own currency, and that the result would be used to quiet those genuinely opposed to such a loss of sovereignty. Now, after 2 years… Read more »
‘Betraying the referendum’-translating from the gibberish, betraying the stupid, jingoistic, imbeciles who were lied to by the very oligarchic scum who have screwed them for generations, and will screw them even more royally after Brexit. Donkeys led by monsters.
I voted to remain and did have a little sympathy for TM having to negotiate the withdrawal agreement, as it was never going to be a ‘walk in the park’. I am a Labour member and a staunch supporter of Corbyn as leader and have admired his attempts to steer the Government’s input into the negotiations. But let’s get real, whether you voted leave or remain, two years on and the realisation about the future of the UK is stark. MP’s have to choose between the deal which is on the table or not. The likelihood of rejection is almost certain and the UK could leave the EU with no deal, which I believe would be disastrous for the economy and the citizens of the UK. The option of a ‘peoples vote’ or second referendum must be kept open and it could be a choice between the deal which is… Read more »
“You can only change things from ‘within’, not from ‘without’.”
Stafford Beer says “arse about face.”
I think, thankfully, we are heading for another General Election. Hopefully when this one starts the parties will have aligned their policies with their intentions regarding membership of the E.U. Perhaps then there will be an honest contest and whoever wins will actually want to deliver what they campaigned upon. This may mean some parties have to fracture but that would be no bad thing
If there is an election, there will be a hate campaign against Corbyn based on the entirely false and filthy accusations of the new ‘Supreme Crime’, ‘antisemitism’ that will dwarf anything so far seen.
I think we can be sure that there will be lots of accusations and lies about all the candidates. This media battle sometimes seems to dwarf the battle of ideas
The only ‘idea’ any Rightist has or has ever had or will ever have is that other people are The Enemy, Within or Without. Hence our terminal predicaments.
The Tories will try and get by with a leadership election and a unity candidate winning with a landslide. We will then be instructed that this ‘democratic exercise’ provides person X with a huge mandate that obviates the need for a ‘destabilizing’ general election.
Watso, Umnna, Kinnock, Phillips and all the rest of the People’s Vote party, bringing down Theresa May, forcing an election, letting Corbyn in? You’ve got to be f***ing joking. These people have been quoting opinion polls for the last couple of years, if those polls don’t suggest Corbyn is going to be seriously trounced, they’ll find the words to explain why we should all accept May’s bad deal and renegotiate a glorious reentry later. Anything is acceptable except a Labour government.
It’s hard to imagine the Conservatives voting for a GE because in the subsequent campaign they would truly divide into hard Brexiters and the May pretend version, costly as it is. Unfortunately Tories are cowards and will be keen to collect at least another 2 years salary and the chance of some cushy government job now there are so many around. They’ll end up saying May is marvellous, a Boudica of her age etc etc and the deal she struck is just right! Meanwhile the Labour Right will do everything they can to keep the Tories in office rather than their own Party; it’s just the way they are. To try and avoid constituency anger they may abstain but that has the same effect of course. The DUP have only one friend in the World – Mrs May so the idea they’ll gun her down is fanciful. Another Billion or… Read more »
I thought just losing a vote of confidence triggered it?
The British ruling class’ main aims of stopping Brexit and preventing Corbyn from becoming PM are throwing up massive contradictions and creating strange bedfellows. The main engine for class domination in Britain, the Conservative and Unionist Party, is tearing itself apart and potentially opening the way for a left Labour government. It can’t be long before plan B is dusted off – a national government to “save” the country from both Brexit and Corbyn: the so-called “People’s Vote” movement is part of this, heavily backed by Soros, Blankfein and friends. The problem for the Labour class-collaborators, LibDem and Tory “moderates” and the CBI/civil service etc. is that it will engender a massive rightwing backlash, which they may not be able to control. The only positive escape is by standing firm, for Brexit, for Corbyn and for a left led government with plenty of extra-parliamentary support in the streets, something the… Read more »
The Blairite MPs will leave the Labour Party and get together with what’s left of Tories and Liberals. Then we will see if the Corbyn support is strong enough in the constituencies. If the country can’t see the sense in Labour’s Brexit strategy it’s going to be chaos.
I don’t think they’ve got the bottle myself, after the debacle of the SDP, Woy Jenkins and Shirley Williams and the rest. Hence the non stop smear campaigns against Jezza by the MSM/ Spooks/ Board of Deputies/ PLP Blairite Backstabbers.
The SDP was never a ‘debacle’. It did its work-to keep Thatcher in power.
Why would a general election happen given that that would require 2/3rds of parliament to vote for it?
No it wouldn’t. A simple majority in a House of Commons no-confidence vote is enough. That’s how the 1974-79 Labour government fell.
I think there are new rules in play by Cameron vis: triggering an election. 66% of MPs have to vote to bring the government down in Parliament. One way is via the Queen if she is asked by the Commons to ask if any party can form a government with a majority. If that majority can prove it has the numbers it can govern on its own. Problem is we are now in ABC ( Anything But Corbyn ) territory. For the centrists what would be required would be a government of National Salvation, meaning saving Neo Liberalism and its alleged good points. The guise would on the surface be to save us from a No Deal Brexit but in actuality it is to save them and their capitalist masters from a new government which will start to unwind the Thatcherite concensus that has ruled the UK for forty years.… Read more »
But isn’t it still the case that if a PM is aware they can’t secure a majority in the Commons then they go to the monarch and inform them? Sometimes (Ted Heath Februsry 2974) they’re given time to see if they can get a majority via perhaps a Coalition.
Paul
As far as I know it can be anyone who makes the approach – even Vince Cable.