JFK 55 years on: Casting Light on 9/11 & Other 21st Century Crimes

Graeme MacQueen

1962: US statesman John F Kennedy, 35th president of the USA, making a speech. (Photo by Central Press/Getty Images)

Fifty-five years ago, on November 22, 1963, John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Although there has been a great deal written about this event over the years, I want to draw attention to one exceptionally important article, originally delivered as a talk on November 20, 1998. Vincent Salandria gave this talk in Dallas at the invitation of the Coalition on Political Assassinations. (See Sources.)

Salandria had been a high school teacher at the time of the assassination (he later became a lawyer) and was one of the first people in the US to write essays expressing dissent from the government narrative of lone gunman Lee Harvey Oswald, maverick leftist.

In his 1998 talk Salandria went through over a dozen of the famous obstacles to the government story—the grassy knoll witnesses, the “magic bullet,” the testimony of the doctors at Parkland Hospital, and so on—but he did not let himself get sidetracked into detailed debates on any of these. By 1998 he had already seen, and participated in, 35 years of such debates. He had long ago concluded that, “the national security state at the very highest level of its power killed President John F. Kennedy for his efforts at seeking to develop a modus vivendi with the Soviets and with socialist Cuba.”

In 1998 he felt it was time to warn researchers about the danger of wasting time in “false debates,” where the essential facts had clearly been established and the wrangling served only the purposes of the assassins. Rather than repeat the debates, Salandria decided in 1998 to outline his basic approach. I will call this the Salandria Approach. I draw attention to it because I believe it helps us find our feet when we tackle not only the JFK killing but many of the killings in the 21st century’s War on Terror.

Here are Salandria’s words:

I began to sift through the myriad facts regarding the assassination which our government and the US media offered us. What I did was to examine the data in a different fashion from the approach adopted by our news media. I chose to assess how an innocent civilian-controlled US government would have reacted to those data. I also envisioned how a guilty US national security state which may have gained control of and may have become semi-autonomous to the civilian US governmental structure would have reacted to the data of the assassination.”

He adds that,

only a guilty government seeking to serve the interests of the assassins would consistently resort to accepting one improbable conclusion after another while rejecting a long series of probable conclusions.”

Let us take two cases from Salandria’s list of over one dozen in order to see what he was getting at.

The Grassy Knoll

Dozens of witnesses thought there were shots from an extended grassy rise, containing several structures, situated west of the famous Texas School Book Depository Building. Salandria, refusing to get drawn into the familiar debate, says:

Let us assume arguendo [for the sake of argument] that all of the eyewitnesses who had concluded that shots were fired from the grassy knoll were dead wrong. But an innocent government could not and would not at that time have concluded that these good citizens were wrong and would not have immediately rushed to declare a far-fetched single assassin theory as fact.”

Note that Salandria’s emphasis is not on the details of the grassy knoll discussion but on the method the government followed in its investigation. And he is right, both about the immediate claim that Oswald acted alone— presented, as he explains, by a government representative on November 22 itself—and about the identical statement presented later by the Warren Commission.

In both cases the claim flew in the face of the eyewitness evidence. For example, despite the fact that there are references to dozens of witnesses to shots from the grassy knoll in the 26 volumes of evidence appended to the Warren Report, the Commission itself displayed little interest in them. And when the Commission dismissed every single one of the grassy knoll witnesses to protect its lone gunman theory it did so without bothering to make a sustained argument.

It chose instead to play a credibility game. It pronounced:

No credible evidence suggests that the shots were fired from the railroad bridge over the Triple Underpass, the nearby railroad yards or any place other than the Texas School Book Depository Building” Warren Report, p. 61

In other words, the Commission decided to gather together into one great agglomeration the credibility of its seven well dressed and high-ranking white men associated with government and use this to crush the credibility of the “good citizens” who were present in the Plaza and witnessed, with their senses, the unfolding of events.

It was a breathtaking move. But in what way could it be said to characterize an innocent government? How could any serious investigator pretend to solve an evidential problem by playing a credibility game? Standard practice in a homicide investigation would be to find all witnesses, to interview them, and to record their statements impartially, making sure to ask each one of them where they thought the shots came from and why they reached their conclusion. How would the opinions of congressmen, spies and the like possibly be relevant to the case when these gentlemen declined to offer adequate counter-evidence or to give a serious argument to support their peculiar conclusion?

Readers who have never had the opportunity to see and hear for themselves the good citizens in question may benefit from Mark Lane’s documentary:

Well, where, in such a case, does the Salandria Approach lead us? We have no choice but to conclude that the Warren Commission’s investigation was not what we would expect from “an innocent civilian-controlled US government.”

It was more characteristic of “a guilty government seeking to serve the interests of the assassins.” There was a predetermined perpetrator and an insistence on the guilt of this perpetrator, while evidence suggestive of a conspiracy was systematically ignored, distorted or suppressed.

Suppose we were to apply the Salandria Approach to events of the 21st century–to the eyewitnesses at the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, for example? We have over 150 witnesses who reported that they saw, heard or felt explosions at the time of the beginning of destruction of the Twin Towers. (See Sources for assertions in this and the following paragraph.)

Their testimony constitutes very significant support for the theory that the Trade Center was blown up and did not undergo collapse from structural failure caused by airplane collision. We are not simply talking about loud sounds here. We are talking about sounds that experienced firefighters suspected were caused by bombs. We are talking about patterns of explosions seen pulverizing the buildings. We are talking, in some cases, about witnesses who say these explosions threw them through the air. Now, avoiding the debates about the details of this testimony, let us follow Salandria and ask: What did the government’s 9/11 Commission do with these eyewitness accounts, all of which were in its possession?

The answer is that it called for no comprehensive search for eyewitnesses (neither did the FBI, as far as I can discover), nor did it have such witnesses asked the appropriate questions. It devoted to these witnesses a single line in the roughly 585 pages of its Report. And that single line is both dismissive and extremely misleading.

What about the National Institute of Standards and Technology, assigned by government the task of looking in detail at the destruction of the Trade Center and sorting out the reasons for its destruction? In the thousands of pages of its reports on the Twin Towers we find not a single mention of the explosion witnesses. Despite NIST’s pride in its interviewing techniques, and despite its access to all the relevant information, it somehow missed over 150 witnesses. It made no attempt to find them, to sort out their testimony, or to discover how their words might illumine the mystery of the so-called “collapses.”

We should recall that the efforts of the 9/11 Commission and NIST were mere follow-through. A strenuous attempt to promote the structural failure hypothesis was begun on the very day of September 11, 2001, in the absence of serious evidence in its favour and in bold contradiction to what large numbers of witnesses were saying. (Sources)

When we adopt the Salandria Approach we must, to paraphrase Salandria, conclude that, “an innocent government could not and would not at that time have concluded that these good citizens were wrong and would not have immediately rushed to declare a far-fetched [structural failure] theory as fact.”

The Magic Bullet

In his essay Salandria explains the absurdity of the single bullet (“magic bullet”) theory, according to which one bullet passed entirely through the president’s body and then caused all of Governor Connally’s wounds, emerging after its adventure in near-pristine condition. This bullet evidently had no difficulty changing direction in mid-air, nor did it balk at losing mass in Connally’s body and then regaining this mass at the end of its journey. Salandria concludes:

“our Cold War government in the context of the assassination had declared a moratorium on the science of physics.”

Remember: the issue before us is not merely he single bullet theory itself but the behavior of government representatives in investigating this hypothesis. So it is in those moments when we read the Warren Commission transcripts and watch counsel Arlen Specter leading and pressuring witnesses into accepting the single bullet theory that we realize we are seeing the handiwork of a guilty state.

Now, what might we find if we were to apply the Salandria Approach to the destruction of the World Trade Center? To restrict ourselves, for the sake of this discussion, to World Trade 7, what would the approach of an innocent government to this building destruction look like? Would we not expect a thorough search for eyewitnesses?

Would not all of the recoverable steel be preserved carefully and made accessible to civilian experts? Would there not be a serious attempt to explain evidence of corrosion and vaporization of the steel? Would there not be the most rigorous examination of the Trade Center dust, searching for evidence that would allow ascertainment of temperatures reached during the building’s destruction and searching as well for residue of explosives and incendiaries?

Would there not be frank astonishment at the fact that the descent of this 47-storey building, not hit by a plane, began rapidly, symmetrically, and at free fall acceleration? Would not physicists openly debate this astounding event, troubled by the fact that the vertical columns of this well constructed steel-framed high-rise offered no resistance whatsoever when, for mysterious reasons, the collapse began?

Surely an innocent government sincerely probing for the truth would not choose, instead of taking the path outlined above, to construct a computer simulation that, even with manipulation, could not replicate the historical event clearly preserved on video? Surely investigators would not bring the simulation to an abrupt end before it was able to represent total collapse, and surely they would not refuse to release the complete data set used in their simulation, claiming it might compromise national security? (Sources)

When we ask these questions and contemplate the answers we see at once what game NIST has been playing in its account of World Trade 7. In the 21st century there is, perhaps, no more obvious demonstration that the US government, for the sake of its War on Terror, has “declared a moratorium on the science of physics.”

There is an entire organization, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, which has taken as its task for over a decade the pointing out of such violations of the laws of physics in the US government’s account of the September 11, 2001 crime. The organization is to be praised for its creativity and persistence. Yet the false debate continues, and the intelligentsia continues to insist that the Emperor is well dressed, thank you very much.

Political Implications of Grassy Knolls and Magic Bullets

There is something I have always found arresting about the grassy knoll, and my concerns extend to the suppressed witnesses of September 11. In both cases we have ordinary folks—people like ourselves—who are, supposedly, citizens of a democracy. They are also, as far as we can tell, of sound mind and body, able to perceive with their senses and assess with their minds. Yet, all of a sudden, when their bodies and minds tell them something that conflicts with a government dictum, they are considered by government of no more political competence than cattle. I find it hard to think of a greater insult to these “good citizens” and to the notion of democracy, and I find it hard to think of a more brash assertion of the principle of authority.

This is why witnesses from the grassy knoll and the World Trade Center should be at the centre of the current debate about state deception and its relation to democracy.

As for magic bullets in Dealey Plaza and the mysterious collapse of World Trade 7, they are, I suggest, of comparable political importance to the abused witnesses. We face a collection of gentlemen in suits and ties (seven gentlemen in the Warren Commission and ten in the 9/11 Commission) telling us that their stories are more potent than the laws of the universe. How poor must be our self-confidence that we can put up with this guff? How defective must be our educational systems if they produce citizens who accept this?

Here we are, then, at the 55th anniversary of the murder of a president who was moving away from Cold War thinking and entering a different path. As we reflect on the direction in which his assassins have steered the United States of America, to the detriment of all of us, US citizens and otherwise, let us reflect on Salandria’s words:

By coming to understand the true answer to the historical question of who killed President Kennedy and why, we will have developed a delicate and precisely accurate prism through which we can examine how power works in this militarized country. By understanding the nature of this monumental crime, we will become equipped to organize the struggle through which we can make this country a civilian republic in more than name only.”

Graeme MacQueen is the former director of the Centre for Peace Studies at McMaster University. He is a member of the 9/11 Consensus Panel, former co-editor of the Journal of 9/11 Studies, and an organizer of the 2011 Toronto Hearings, the results of which have been published in book form as The 9/11 Toronto Report. He is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG)
Sources
  1. The Salandria essay that is the basis of my article, “The JFK Assassination: A False Mystery Concealing State Crimes,” can be found here.
  2. Both the Warren Report and the 26 volumes of evidence can be found at the Mary Ferrell Foundation website.
  3. 3. The list of 156 eyewitnesses to explosions in the Twin Towers can be found here. A discussion of the method used to arrive at the list as well as the treatment of these witnesses by the 9/11 Commission and NIST can be found in my article, “Eyewitness Evidence of Explosions in the Twin Towers” in The 9/11 Toronto Report, ed. James Gourley, International Center for 9/11 Studies, 2012.
  4. For a discussion of the destruction of World Trade 7 see the website of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth & especially Ted Walter’s publication, Beyond Misinformation.
  5. For the dismissal of evidence of controlled demolition from the earliest moment see Ted Walter’s recent article, “Dick Cheney and Rudy Giuliani: The First Government Officials to Dismiss the Idea of Controlled Demolition on 9/11.”
  6. For a discussion of Kennedy’s turn away from the Cold War see James Douglass’s brilliant JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters (New York: Simon and Schuster, 2008).
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Geoffrey ONeill
Reader
Geoffrey ONeill

The “Salandria’ approach is brilliant in its simplicity. You can apply it to most any serious crime the govermnet has committed or covered up over the years Take the USS Liberty incident for instance. Would an innocent government, after hearing eye witness accounts of the deliberate, malicious attack by the IDF from every survivor, order them under penalty of court martial and dishonorable discharge to never speak of it, ever to anyone, even to family members? Would an innocent government then order a media black out? This was an ultimate betrayal of Americans to protect the incestuous relationship of two… Read more »

Ash
Reader
Ash

There is a plethora of examples in the last 120 years alone that, if looked at via the Salandria Approach, all make a sane person come to the same conclusion. I have studied many of them deeply and KNEW the US govt. to be corrupt and controled. The Salandria Approach is very useful to give expression to this knowing. The questions Salandria asks are potent because it all boils down to a binary: innocent civilian-controlled US government vs. guilty US national security state. Of course it will trigger a massive cognitive dissonance in many people, don’t be surprised if they… Read more »

PSJ
Reader
PSJ

I’ve been reading the discussion between flaxgirl and Milosevic about possible fakery on 9/11 and I would like to try to sum up the argument if flaxgirl doesn’t mind. @flaxgirl — you believe “perps” DID pull three buildings down and DID use explosives to do so, I take it, and DID allow people to breathe in the toxic dust and get sick and die as a result? And you believe they DID use this false flag as an excuse for launching wars in the ME that murdered millions more people. You accept all this is true, correct? However you think… Read more »

Alan Ford
Reader

What an in depth, informative yet interesting read. Thank you soooo much for sharing. Personally, I believe Mr. Salandria’s analysis in this case.

MoriartysLeftSock
Reader

heads up there’s no point in reasoning with flaxgirl on either of the following subjects:

fake deaths (she is convinced no one ever dies)

AGW (she is convinced Skeptical Science is the Word of the Lord on that subject and is deaf to reason)

Frances
Reader
Frances

Before you start believing the rubbish put out by the likes of flaxgirl, Judy Wood and all the rest of the nutcases you should read “On the Physics of High Rise Building Collapse” where some real scientists present some real facts

On 9/11 and Zion
Reader
On 9/11 and Zion

The U.S. has spent six trillion dollars on wars that killed half a million people since 9/11, according to Brown University’s Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs in its annual “Costs of War” report (November 2018).

https://www.newsweek.com/us-spent-six-trillion-wars-killed-half-million-1215588

On airplanes mysteries and Zion - III
Reader
On airplanes mysteries and Zion - III

If you’re an openly anti-Zionist nation, does the probability of ‘a malfunction onboard of a brandnew state-of-the-art Boeing leads to the destruction of the aircraft and killing everyone onboard’ increase?

On airplanes mysteries and Zion - II
Reader
On airplanes mysteries and Zion - II

If you’re a clearly and openly anti-Zionist nation, does the probability of ‘your passenger jet going north toward Beijing suddenly veers to the east and continues flying until it falls off the edge of the planet’ increase?

And if you’re an openly critical of Israel, does the probability of ‘your passenger jet gets shot in Ukrainian airpspace killing everyone onboard’ increase?

On airplanes and Zion - I
Reader
On airplanes and Zion - I

If you kept restricting Israel’s military actions, does the probability of ‘Your surveillance aircraft gets shot and pulverised by your own defences’ increase?

Cherrycoke
Reader
Cherrycoke

This is overall a very good site. It is a pity that idiots (Chomsky a “scumbag”? No, Chomsky has done great work. He is wrong about 9/11 and JFK though, yes.) and anti-semites (The Jews, Mossad, Israel, Zionists are behind everything? No, Israel has political interests and it has some influence in the US, and the Mossad does dirty work just like every other secret service in the world, some of it good, as in Eichmann, some of it bad, as in PROMIS, and the Zionists are only one political faction/ideology, and would you please stop mentioning Rothschild in every… Read more »

jag37777
Reader

Indeed. I’m a life long anti Zionist and anti racist. Its a shame to see the antisemites and right wing banking conspiracy nuts seemingly taking over the comments section here.
The left doesn’t need to make common cause with the libertarians or other alt right/fascist fringe. It’s a trap.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

right-wing banking conspiracy nuts As the zionist-orchestrated “anti-semitism” campaign against Jeremy Corbyn makes clear, the insistence that opposition to the activities of large banks and their controllers must necessarily be “right-wing” and “anti-semitic”, has the ultimate objective of pathologizing and eventually criminalizing all consistent left-wing politics. One wonders whether those who endorse this idea, do so because they are afraid that any serious investigation of big banks would show that self-identified “Jews” really are disproportionately represented among their controllers, and wish to pre-emptively discredit any such conclusions as “racist”. Alternatively, perhaps they are only pro-bank and pro-capitalist, and merely find… Read more »

jag37777
Reader

I don’t think you’re a serious leftist. I do think you’re a racist loon.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

you’re a racist loon You people are so predictable — everything you say comes right out of the Hasbara Handbook. (There really is an official Hasbara Handbook! google it! You’ll finally understand why every zionist you ever met says exactly the same things.) I think you’re an khazarian ethnic-supremacist troll, so I guess that makes us even. For everybody else: read the articles on the nature of “anti-semitism”, linked just above. In order to have an informed opinion about it, one must first have a reasonable understanding of the Semitism to which it is opposed, just as having an opinion… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

I can be an anti-zionist without being an anti-semite.

Haven’t you heard?

“anti-zionism is the same thing as anti-semitism.” — according to about 95% of self-identified “Jews”.

Are you saying they’re wrong? You know better than they do what the content of Jewish identity is?

That’s mighty white of you.

People like you do the Palestinians no favours.

— whereas the current “solidarity” movement is reaching ever greater heights of success, as everybody can see. Never mind the ongoing genocide in Gaza, what’s really important is not offending the Jewish State’s friends and admirers, by taking their own racist ideology at face value.

jag37777
Reader

I don’t have a clue of why you think those assertions are relevant.
The world is not divided into 2. And everyone who opposes your racism is not an apologist for zionism.
People like you are a pox on the Palestinian liberation movement.
I sometimes wonder ehether by design.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Try reading Gilad Atzmon. Maybe he can get through to you.

Meanwhile, enjoy your job as a sabbat goy, obscuring how zionism really stays in business.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

I’m a life long anti Zionist and anti racist. Its a shame to see the antisemites

I keep hearing that “anti-zionism is the same thing as anti-semitism.” Since it appears that only a small minority (how small?) of self-identified “Jews” (surely the only relevant criteria) would disagree with this idea, I’ve decided to stop arguing the point.

Serious investigations of the phenomenon of “anti-semitism” reveal that the issues involved are much more complicated than we have been led to believe.

Ron Unz — The Nature of Anti-Semitism

Vineyard Saker — A crash course on the true causes of “antisemitism”

Constantine
Reader
Constantine

Bringing Ron Unz and the Saker just destroyed whatever argument you may have had. Both are spewing anti-Semitic nonsense and just like you actively harm the effort of people who criticize Israel and the western establishment.

BTW, this type of anti-Semitic crap is used specifically in social media by various pro-Israel trolls precisely to discredit sites, other commenters etc. with success.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

anti-Semitic nonsense Anti-Semitic nonsense that people like you don’t even try to refute, because you can’t. So your only recourse is to pathologize it in the hope that people won’t even look at it and form their own opinions. Just like the pro-Israel trolls do. Funny how that works. The truth about Jewish ethnic supremacism is starting to get out. When it becomes widely understood, the game will be up. I can see why you’re worried. For everybody else, I urge you to read the two articles linked above. The ethnic activists don’t want you to do that, hence the… Read more »

mark
Reader
mark

I think Israel has more than “some” influence in the US. I don’t know any other secret service that does 9/11s, and a lot else besides. “Our race is the “Master Race.” We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. Other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior traces. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” – Menachem Begin. You’re not calling old Menachem a liar, surely? Or Shamir, Sharon and Nuttyyahoo himself, helpfully… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Nuttyyahoo himself, helpfully explaining how they exert complete control over America, to the extent that he has only to break wind and all the 30 shekel whores in Congress jump and down to give him 20 standing ovations like trained seals It would appear that there are a great many more than thirty shekel whores in the US Congress; it might be hard to find thirty of them that aren’t. It would also appear that nothing so strenuous as breaking wind is necessary to command their servile displays of obedience; it seems that a meaningful glare is quite sufficient. And… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

there are a great many more than thirty shekel-whores in the US Congress On re-reading the post to which I was responding, I realize that phrase was probably intended as “30-shekel whores”, rather than as “30 shekel-whores”. That is, it was referring to the price for which the politi-whores might be purchased, rather than the number of such creatures. Then one of the Twelve — the one called Judas Iscariot — went to the chief priests and asked, “What are you willing to give me if I deliver him over to you?” So they counted out for him thirty pieces… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

anti-semites (The Jews, Mossad, Israel, Zionists are behind everything? No, Israel has political interests and it has some influence in the US, and the Mossad does dirty work just like every other secret service in the world)

see a few posts below, for Al Jazeera’s documentaries about exactly how much influence Israel has over US and UK politics, especially foreign policy.

tonyopmoc
Reader
tonyopmoc

I just found this video on Aletho. It was well worth 6 minutes of my time. President John F, Kennedy knew what was going on. He and the World were warned about it, by his predecessor President Dwight D. Eisenhower. I hadn’t seen this video before. JFK was a very brave man. He tried to confront the evil. They killed him. They are now in control.

“Gaddafi was right about JFK”

Tony

systemicfraud
Reader
systemicfraud

The recent leak of the Al Jazeera undercover investigation of the Israeli Lobby in the USA reveals to total corruption of the US main stream media–the alarming part is the US independent media sites were also silent on the release. I expected total silence from the US MSM–but to witness the absolute Wall of Silence which the independent sites exhibited as well, was shocking. No coverage from The Intercept, Truth Dig, anti-war.com (etc.). Glenn Greenwald did make a tweet–but a tweet is hardly an article–especially when there are no gatekeepers for Greenwald, he is a founder at The Intercept and… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

In the UK, the UK investigation received quite a bit of coverage — and actually led to some blow back for Israel. An Israeli diplomat resigned, Israel offered an apology and UK parliament members even spoke of an official inquiry into the Israeli lobby.

Al Jazeera — The Lobby

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

The recent leak of the Al Jazeera undercover investigation of the Israeli Lobby in the USA reveals to total corruption of the US main stream media — the alarming part is the US independent media sites were also silent on the release.

The Lobby — USA, episodes 1 + 2

The Lobby — USA, episodes 3 + 4

Edwige
Reader
Edwige

One of the most curious aspects of JFK is how Mark Lane went from the author of ‘Rush to Judgment’ (which seemed to break plenty of genuinely new evidence damning to the official version) to being in the Jonestown compound less than a decade later – and being one of the very few to escape at the end (I’m assuming that most people reading here agree that Jonestown was some sort of intelligence agency operation). Was he compromised – or had he always been an asset? I’d also urge caution about “eyewitnesses”. In the 1965 murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer… Read more »

Cherrycoke
Reader
Cherrycoke

It is indeed a very interesting coincidence if that is what it is. On the other hand, I have seen “Rush of Judgment” and read some things about the man, and I have absolutely no reason, other than the murky Jonestown business, to suspect Mark Lane was an intelligence asset. Note that he later destroyed Howard Hunts alibi.

different frank
Reader
different frank

Before Dealey Plaza the crowds were large. In dealey plaza the people were sparse/

paul metcalf
Reader
paul metcalf

michael collins piper’s book,The Final Judgement, comes highly recommended.i’ll have to save up to buy it though.

Roberto
Reader
Roberto

Have a little look – it’s available for free download in pdf format! Here’s one:
http://www.thechristianidentityforum.net/downloads/Rush-Judgment.pdf

TFS
Reader
TFS

The JFK community is vast, the information is vast, so much so, that most people glaze over it. In all the vastness of material the challenge in getting people to question the official narrative has become an uphill struggle. Better to strip it back to maybe one question and move on from there. The JFK community would do itself a great job if it: Stated One Fact & Asked One Question, as a primer for those supporters of the official narrative on the subject. 1 Fact: Back and to the Left 2.Question: Please explain, with evidence, how a bullet from… Read more »

different frank
Reader
different frank

I thin it is more important to ask who benefits.

DunGroanin
Reader
DunGroanin

‘Between 1933 and 1963, all Federal Reserve notes promised to pay (or be redeemed) in “lawful money,” which meant silver. Then the wording on the Federal Reserve notes began to be changed to somewhat obscure language, which should have given Americans a warning that the government was planning something.’
https://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/history-american-money/

The bigger warning was the public execution of 1 of the 2 most powerful leaders on the planet at that moment, by his own establishment on behalf of the banker overlords, that JFK fought.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Back and to the Left — Please explain, with evidence, how a bullet from the TSBD caused this fact. This would assume that a majority of people in the relevant countries are acquainted with the basic principles of physics. I think it is more important to ask who benefits. This would assume that a majority of people in the relevant countries are acquainted with the basic principles of logic. Evidence for the veracity of the two assumptions above is severely lacking, unfortunately. The survivors of the Iraq War might have cause to regret the quite astonishing stupidity and ignorance of… Read more »

Badger Down
Reader
Badger Down

Extraordinary, milosevic.
1) No need for “basic physics”. Just show a vid of pumpkin shot from the front and from the rear. (And don’t even think about which is front or back of a pumpkin.)
2) No need for “majority of people”; 30% would be plenty. Anyway, most seven-year-old children have a fair understanding of “cui bono”, as long as you don’t say it in Latin.
3) Maybe the US population is stupid and ignorant, but you appear to say that they benefited from the US war in Iraq.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

most seven-year-old children have a fair understanding of “cui bono”, as long as you don’t say it in Latin.

It’s too bad that most US adults don’t, or they wouldn’t have been so eager to accept the ridiculous 9/11 faery tale, and the Iraq War for which it served as the essential pretext.

Maybe the US population is stupid and ignorant, but you appear to say that they benefited from the US war in Iraq.

No, I’m quite sure I didn’t say that. Maybe you should read more carefully.

Badger Down
Reader
Badger Down

Oh yeah. You said, “who benefits. This would assume that a majority of people in the relevant countries”
The two ideas just happened to be adjacent:

(From 1:00)

Bilge
Reader
Bilge

Maybe members of the public are so afraid of ridicule amongst their peers, or realise if they do accept that their governments are deceiving them, then they are taking ‘the red pill’ and once they take it there’s no going back, so they willingly accept the official versions?

harry stotle
Reader
harry stotle

JFK said, “The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie–deliberate, contrived and dishonest–but the myth–persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

Are you listening Guardian – ‘the comfort of opinion without thought.’

kevin morris
Reader
kevin morris

I am extremely wary of these, ‘we’re in the know’ why aren’t others?’ view of the world. Frankly, for many the day to day dramas of life are quite enough and many others in the world probably wisely conclude that if there’s nothing to be done, it is better not to know. The most powerful organisation involved in the 9/11 truth movement is Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth who deliberately avoid conclusions as to who was responsible. Their film also emphasises why, in the opinion of experts, so many do not wish to know. I sometimes visit an elderly… Read more »

harry stotle
Reader
harry stotle

“Frankly, for many the day to day dramas of life are quite enough and many others in the world probably wisely conclude that if there’s nothing to be done, it is better not to know.” – sorry, I strongly disagree with this. We all have responsibility even if individually we have negligible influence. Nonetheless this doesn’t stop movements from rising or tipping points from being reached when finally enough people demand change because of egregious injustices. Incrementally and over time there have been advances such as better access to education and health care or improved working conditions (relatively speaking). 9/11,… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

— but there’s obviously no problem in that people who have taken the trouble to figure out what’s actually going on in the world, and explain their conclusions in public, are routinely sneered at and pathologized as “conspiracy theorists”, “fascists”, or “mentally ill”, by those who content themselves with the day-to-day dramas of life.

After all, there’s nothing to be done, so one might as well go right on watching TV, voting for bourgeois politicians, serving in the imperial military, and spitting on those who suggest that there’s actually anything wrong with any of this.

kevin morris
Reader
kevin morris

Or of course one could merely keep on preaching to the converted, courtesy of OffGrauniad as I suspect many here do.

Bilge
Reader
DunGroanin
Reader
DunGroanin

Yeah i thought about posting that – but the band of Whiners there are already crowing about their million readers from all over the world! Mostly Oz, US and the WHOLE world as well as the diminishing readership in it’s own land – spewing out incongruous ‘news’ that is as geoinsensibile as that word i just made up. The poll itself is reported as being some kind of europe wide effort but didn’t carry a link to any of the data set, so can not be easily examined. The combined propaganda efforts to reheat the mouldy skripal codswallop and feed… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

The most widespread conspiracy belief in the UK, shared by 44% of people, was that “even though we live in what’s called a democracy, a few people will always run things in this country anyway”.

These people are just obviously crazy. Who could possibly believe an outlandish conspiracy theory like that?

Fortunately, there’s still a 56% majority who stubbornly believe whatever unquestionable truths the government and mass media tell them.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

This is the purpose of the CIA-created “conspiracy theory” meme — to pathologize what would otherwise be the obvious interpretation of such events, and the people who are sufficiently intellectually sophisticated and independent to arrive at it. Conspiracy Theory in America — by Lance deHaven-Smith Ever since the Warren Commission concluded that a lone gunman assassinated President John F. Kennedy, people who doubt that finding have been widely dismissed as conspiracy theorists, despite credible evidence that right-wing elements in the CIA, FBI, and Secret Service—and possibly even senior government officials—were also involved. Why has suspicion of criminal wrongdoing at the… Read more »

different frank
Reader
different frank

I recommend JFK: The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy,
https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Vietnam-Plot-Assassinate-Kennedy/dp/1616082917

vexarb
Reader

“Go anywhere, pay any price”. Cuba, Vietnam, … Iraq, Libya, Syria; we went, they paid:

Virginia State senator Richard Black: “In my lifetime, there has never been a greater force of evil than the terror rained down on Syria by foreign nations. Its cruelty and savagery have had no bounds. Nonetheless, Syria has defended itself against the economic might of 2/3 of the world’s great powers and has beaten them all. As a career military officer and student of military affairs, I cannot explain how Syria could accomplish this if it were not the will of God.”

http://syriatimes.sy/index.php/editorials/opinion/39061-sen-richard-black-to-st-u-s-has-established-17-bases-in-syria-without-the-slightest-lawful-justification-for-doing-so

mark
Reader
mark

Syria has been the rock on which US/ Zionist aggression and imperialism have foundered, like Stalingrad in 1943. The cost has been incalculable, but the heroism of the Syrian army and people and their allies and the leadership of Bashar Assad have won through. The US, the Zionist Terror Regime, Erdogan’s Turkey, the Barbaric Gulf Dictatorships, UK, France, and Quisling states like Jordan, threw everything they’d got at Syria and failed. Hundreds of thousands of the most vile, barbaric terrorists on the planet, from over 100 countries, were funnelled into the country from their havens in Turkey and Jordan, equipped,… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

No doubt in due course MI6’s pet cannibal head choppers and throat slitters will drift back here and show their appreciation for all that largesse by staging another Manchester Arena type bombing, like their pet terrorists from Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. That’s the trouble with bankrolling terrorism. It tends to blow up in your face. Literally. — although somehow it never seems to blow up in the faces of those specific individuals who actually bankrolled and directed it. Funny how that works. It’s also an amazing coincidence that the various “blowback” outrages seem to be highly correlated with the need… Read more »

Mulga Mumblebrain
Reader
Mulga Mumblebrain

I do hope there is a God. A just and vengeful one.

Badger Down
Reader
Badger Down

… who enjoys monkeying around and random violence. Like the omnipotent god ruling current affairs.

Eddison Flame
Reader

Oh yeah, you mean the almighty God who gave us life and free will? The one who warned us time and again for thousands of years to be just and to have compassion for one another because someday we will be made to give an account for everything we have done? Is that the God you’re talking about? You must be talking about the God mentioned by prophet after prophet for thousands of years who guarantees us an eternal peaceful abode in the hereafter, but warns us that, for a period of time here on Earth, we must unfortunately struggle… Read more »

Elizabeth Woodworth
Reader
Elizabeth Woodworth

Amen!

Antonym
Reader
Antonym

The biggest differences between JFK’s assassination and 9/11: the former was pre covered by vice President Johnson and done by CIA elements while the latter was post covered by president Bush and done by Saudi elements.

mark
Reader
mark

No, by 5 Dancing Israelis and a network of 200 Mossad agents, some of whom were caught with explosives before being quietly deported by the dual national Israeli citizens and Mossad agents infesting the US state machinery.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Saudi elements There’s no serious evidence for the involvement of Arabs or Moslems of any sort, except as patsies. The simplest explanation is that the aircraft were flown to their targets by pre-programmed autopilot systems, after the flight crews were disabled, possibly by gas. On the single airplane for which passenger phonecalls provide meaningful evidence for the presence of “hijackers”, who may not have known that they were going to die that day, something went wrong, and it was shot down by the USAF over a rural area, and sadly missed its appointment with WTC-7. Plausibility of 9/11 Aircraft Attacks… Read more »

Antonym
Reader
Antonym

Right, only Saudis allowed to fly straight after 9/11 over Americans by president Bush means nothing. Bush – Bin Laden family oil business: all details. Gulf wars; no Saudi involvement, like Syria or Yemen today. The 1993 WTC basement bombing: no Muslims involved. Same for 1983 Berut bombing or Madrid 2004. OBL and KSM holidaying in Afpak pure coincidence; could have been in Ireland or Thailand.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Reader
Mulga Mumblebrain

So, in your Zionazi dream world bin Laden’s denials of involvement don’t exist, the Five Celebrating Israelis, filming the atrocity as it unfolded, don’t exist, the numerous Israeli ‘predictions’ of just such an attack don’t exist, Nutty-yahoo’s plain delight at the attack doesn’t exist, Israel’s long history of false-flags does not exist, and the question,’cui bono’ is insufferably ‘antisemitic’.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

There’s obviously Saudi involvement in most of those events; my reference was specifically to 9/11, as was your original reference. I’m not sure why that would be unclear. As for prominent Saudis being quickly whisked out of the US after 9/11, this is easily explained by the fact that the event was going to be purposefully blamed on Saudis, and the US ruling class not wanting any of their friends and business partners to suffer any unpleasant repercussions. It’s not particularly mysterious. The more interesting questions are those of Israeli involvement, for example their apparent role in babysitting, or perhaps… Read more »

CarlAntoine
Reader

Financed by Saudi Arabia, Done by Israel …

Mulga Mumblebrain
Reader
Mulga Mumblebrain

The Saudis were nothing but the patsies. 9/11, plainly, was yet another MOSSAD false-flag, aided and abetted by local US sayanim, and elements of the US elite, notably the Continuity of Government capi, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

vexarb
Reader

@CarlAntoine: “Financed by Saudi Arabia, Done by Israel …”

…. under orders from the Bush regime; who were in their turn under orders from Anglo Zio Capitalist HQ namely, the City of London. British PM Tony B.Liar was rewarded with a directorship in House of Rothschild — the highest rank ever attained by a British PM. British Finance Minister Gordon Brownstuff was rewarded with a directorship in Rothschild arms company Carlyle Corp; as was B.Liar, who also received a $4Mpa appetiser from Rothschild bank GoldmanSachs.

flaxgirl
Reader

Couldn’t agree more about keeping it as simple as possible. All the different theories they push out is simply a propaganda technique to obscure the obvious truth lying right there staring you in the face. There is a false assumption that you present as much evidence as you possibly can to prove your case. My theory is you present only enough evidence to prove your case because that limits any argument. Nothing could be simpler than 9/11 though. You don’t need witness testimony (nor do you really need it for JFK I’d say), all you need is the 2.25 seconds… Read more »

Michael McNulty
Reader
Michael McNulty

In the photo of Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald it appears part of Oswald’s hand is blown away as the bullet passes through the base of his thumb (not to be confused with the photo of Gary Oldman playing the role of Oswald, which looked very close to the original photo except it shows no injury).

The injury is visible here: http://acopswatch.blogspot.com/2017/11/an-ordinary-american.html

flaxgirl
Reader

I see no injury myself and that nice old guy seems like a disinformation agent. Also if the bullet went through his hand how would it have killed him? Or were there other shots later we don’t see.

Goodstuff
Reader
Goodstuff

The comments there are a lot more instructive then the policemans story and photo

John A
Reader
John A

Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby live on TV. Oswald is being escorted in handcuffs by two cops, Ruby walks up and shoots Oswald. Oswald’s face contorts in pain. Of all the mysteries surrounding JFK, the Ruby – Oswald shooting is the least to be open to doubt.
Not sure how you can argue otherwise. I am intrigued to hear your logic, please.

flaxgirl
Reader

Contorts in pain? That’s compelling evidence for you, John? In the footage milosevic shows us below we see zero evidence of a bullet landing in Oswald. Zero. And you really have to wonder why that is. We see the camera on the gun but we don’t see the bullet go from the gun to Oswald. I rest my case. I’m not saying he definitely wasn’t shot – all I’m saying is there is no evidence for it and there seems to be no good reason for Jack Ruby to go to jail for it so I think it’s exceedingly unlikely.… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

Oh, and of course. There’s a massive huddle around him … could it be to cover the fact that he wasn’t shot? Actually, the more I think about it the more it would seem that Oswald wasn’t shot. There’s simply no evidence for him being shot so why should we believe it any more than we believe anything else they’ve told us happened on that day. There are so many good reasons for not having him shot and none that I can think of for doing it for real.

John A
Reader
John A

I am not quite sure why I should bother to answer again but in the 1980s, Oswald’s body was exhumed for identification purposes (and to prove the grave was not empty as some theories went). This was pre DNA days, but his jaw was intact and Oswald was positively identified from his dental records going back to his childhood. Now, of course, you might have another ‘explanation’ for this, but I for one, am totally convinced, Oswald was killed after the Kennedy assassination. I am however, totally unconvinced that Oswald was the assassin. And there I will leave it. You… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

They told is it was exhumed, you cannot say for sure that happened. He may have died by then and it was his real body or they fabricated the story – who knows? They told us that human fragments were found in the twin tower dust but I don’t believe that because of the evidence of death and injury being staged. I judge by the evidence presented clearly and logic and reason. — They had no reason to kill Oswald and Jack Ruby certainly didn’t thus they didn’t have to do it for real if they didn’t want to. They… Read more »

John A
Reader
John A

There are photographs of Oswald dead on the mortician’s slab showing the bullet wounds. There are photographs of the exhumation, of his teeth, of the dental records. Ruby shot him at point blank range with a handgun, no need for him to have any kind of sniper type skllls. I fear people like you enable TPTB to easily tar everyone who does not accept the ‘official’ story with the same brush as loony conspiracy theories. Oswald was shot on live TV, at point blank range. He was dead on the mortician’s slab. He was buried wearing his wedding ring and… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

I thank you, John, for prompting me to think more on this subject by looking at the photo of Oswald on the mortician’s slab. It definitely got me pondering. For an hypothesis to be true, every single bit of evidence must be accommodated somehow, every single bit. I have to say that I think the photo of him on the mortician’s slab does not look faked (or most of it doesn’t) so how can this fit the hypothesis, “Oswald’s shooting staged”? They often use people in their events who’ve already suffered some kind of injury or have a condition so… Read more »

John A
Reader
John A

Flaxgirl you say “So we can make the photo on the mortician’s slab fit “Oswald’s shooting staged” quite easily unless you can come up with something that refutes my argument, John.” Quite frankly, even if I were to build a time machine and transport both of us to the Dallas Police Station on the day Oswald was shot, and the two of us witness it in person, then visit the morgue to view his body to see the body and see it is the same person, I get the impression you would still not be convinced. There is no point… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

I know we were told that Ruby went to jail but did he really or did he just turn up for special appearances? Perhaps these things are unfakable but when I learnt that the Bologna train station bombing was faked it occurred to me that all those charged with the (fake) bombing surely wouldn’t have gone to jail even though we’re told they did. The “pressure from the Mafia” could simply be propaganda, couldn’t it? Perhaps we’re simply told he was under pressure to provide his motive both to do it and to suffer the consequences. We’re also told by… Read more »

John A
Reader
John A

Flaxgirl, Ruby was a nightclub ‘owner’ with all sorts of Jewish, mafia and government informer connections. He could well have been blackmailed into killing Oswald. Plus he died in gaol of cancer not too many years later, so probably felt his life span was short. Ruby had to go to gaol, the evidence that he did the shooting was too damning not to. The only alternative was to bump him off as well, but that might have got even the most slow-witted to have a light bulb moment. I dont think Oswald killed Kennedy, I dont thing 911 was Bin… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

I don’t think everything is faked, John, just an awful lot of things. I think the evidence shows astronauts landed on the moon, for example. I’m now not convinced that LHO’s death was faked, however, I don’t think there is compelling evidence he was killed either and his death is certainly the kind of thing intelligence agencies fake all the time. I really don’t see that Jack Ruby would have gone to jail – that had to be faked, surely. I’ve learnt since last posting that the stitching matches that of a post-mortem so my speculation that the stitching was… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

Of course, they had every reason to get rid of Oswald. Of course. But he was an agent and they can “disappear” agents easily without killing them so we have to wonder why they didn’t just use their normal technique of “sheep dipping” him – giving him another identity and shipping him off somewhere. I’d be much obliged, John, if you could tell me where in milosevic’s video we see evidence of a bullet in Oswald. I must be missing it somehow or if that footage isn’t what you’re referring to, any footage that shows evidence of a bullet in… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

Also, it would have had to be a set up for Ruby to do it and there’s an awful lot of people around. Wouldn’t it be very risky? Do you think they’d take that risk pulling off such an operation … when they didn’t have to? Don’t you think that if they killed Oswald all the other agents working for them would feel very unhappy about that? Why would they do it for real? It makes no sense.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

It’s simple; the masters of the universe are, contrary to all available evidence, secretly humanitarians of the highest ethical principles. They wouldn’t hurt a fly. Nothing that happens in the world is actually real. The entire Vietnam war was faked with giant holograms. The supposed 58 thousand American victims, and four million Vietnamese victims, are happily living out their lives under new identities in Argentina and Pitcairn Island. Lee Harvey Oswald underwent plastic surgery and later became a famous Hollywood movie star, whereas JFK secretly married Marilyn Monroe. Their seven children are currently living in a yurt in Outer Mongolia.

Antonym
Reader
Antonym

You want to keep it as simple as possible / Occam’s razor?
Good.
Your “Death and injury were also obviously staged on 9/11” does not pass this test at all. Keeping thousands of Americans mum for decades is mission impossible.

mark
Reader
mark

“Keeping thousands of people quiet is impossible……” One fine summer’s day in 1945, there was a big bang over a city called Hiroshima. That was the first anybody ever knew about the atomic bomb, a project completed over several years involving hundreds of thousands of workers from many countries at a cost of billions of dollars. This involved creating entirely new towns, and new power stations to supply the high energy needs. Using new technology like completely automated factories. The US Treasury was emptied of silver bullion to provide high grade electrical wiring. But nobody knew anything about it. Truman… Read more »

Roberto
Reader
Roberto

There’s an amusing story told about Truman meeting Stalin at Potsdam, Truman telling Stalin that a new powerful weapon was being prepared by the US. Stalin acknowledged the comment but was not particularly interested in pursuing the subject further beyond a ‘good luck with that’ response. Of course Stalin knew all about the bomb almost from day one, and followed its progress carefully, unlike Vice President Truman, who had never heard of it. Pavel Sudoplatov ran the program that recruited sources from Oppenheimer down that either provided intelligence or looked the other way as it was collected and given to… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

That’s speculation – we don’t know whether people could or couldn’t and when you say “keep mum” what you’re referring to is “going public” – I’m sure in private people talk about it. Occam’s Razor works on evidence not speculation about what is and isn’t possible in the realm of people keeping their mouths shut. The evidence overwhelmingly shows that death and injury were staged. — A video has been done comparing the “jumpers” to people outside the twin tower windows which shows the jumpers are much bigger than ordinary people in proportion to the window size. The videomaker suggests… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

… Oh, and I forgot
Eight years after the event, ​Ersun Warncke did an exhaustive check of the list of victims provided on the CNN website. He found that of 2,970 people listed only 446 appear in the Social Security death index and of those only 249 have a confirmed death certificate on file. Of those, not a single one has a valid “last address of record” on file.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

To be clear, do you claim that the actual number of 9/11 casualties is 446, 249, or zero? as for this — my theory is that the jumpers at the windows are dummies and it was dummies that were launched from the windows — your theory is that the organizers of 9/11 went to the trouble of preparing dummies to be thrown from the burning buildings (by who?), but they quite stupidly did not realize that their dummies were much larger than any actual human could be? And you claim that this is an example of “keeping it as simple… Read more »

flaxgirl
Reader

Milosevic, I really don’t think you understand what I’m saying. Of course, there was controlled demolition but any people were evacuated before the buildings came down. I don’t argue for a hologram but I do argue that the video footage of Flight 175 is faked and that a 200 ton airliner cannot penetrate a 500,000 ton steel frame building and I’m afraid that the fact that you think it’s perfectly possible shows your lack of scientific understanding. You make a great deal of a bullet piercing steel but we also have footage of a bullet NOT managing to pierce 1/4… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

a 200 ton airliner cannot penetrate a 500,000 ton steel frame building and I’m afraid that the fact that you think it’s perfectly possible shows your lack of scientific understanding. As I’ve said before, the exact same argument would imply that a 2g rifle bullet cannot penetrate a 5kg (= 5000g) steel plate, and yet it does, so perhaps I’m not the one who lacks understanding of physics. Are you aware that the WTC facade was mostly glass? That it had windows, and mostly empty space behind them? Or do you imagine the WTC towers as a solid chunk of… Read more »

Chris
Reader
Chris

Dear Milosevic – regarding the video of the water cutting tool: an amazing piece of machinery for sure but, with respect, the energy of the high pressure water is extremely focused. Anyone who has been up close to a fire hose knows how water can be focused to deliver extraordinary power – particularly those people who have been badly hurt by the use of hoses on political protesters. Note too that many of the cuts of the slightly thicker metals take some time. However, the aluminimum shell of an aeroplane has nothing comparable in terms of focussed strength even at… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

the energy of the high pressure water is extremely focused. Anyone who has been up close to a fire hose knows how water can be focused to deliver extraordinary power – particularly those people who have been badly hurt by the use of hoses on political protesters.

Again, the aircraft fuel tanks in the wing roots contain multiple tons of kerosene, which is suddenly applied to the building facade at 300mph. Presumably, this is substantially faster than water coming out of a firehose.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

the aluminimum shell of an aeroplane has nothing comparable in terms of focussed strength even at high velocity. Especially when one considers the far higher tensile strength of the beams in the Twin Towers. Consider that the entire 200-ton weight of the airplane is supported by the massive spars (“beams”) which form the structure of the wings; these are certainly not just a “shell”. Nor are the two engines, or the landing gear, which must similarly support 200 tons of weight when the plane is on the ground. The load on any single exterior column of the building is much… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

If the aircraft was slowed down measurably — how could the rest of the plane’s parts cause so much damage to the much stronger inner core if it had slown down? We don’t know that there was ANY damage caused to the building cores by the aircraft impacts. The fact that the part of the buildings above the impact zone did not topple or collapse, even a little bit, until the whole thing was blown up with demolition explosives an hour later (1-3/4 hours later, for WTC-1), strongly suggests that the core columns were not seriously damaged, and continued to… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

It was similar to an egg slicer. Yes, exactly. Except for the aircraft wing spars, which appear to have been slicers, rather than slicees, relative to the building columns. The manufacturers of these aircraft said that you would need more than four times the thrust for the engines at sea level to reach the speeds the planes were said to have flown at before hitting the buildings. — we may therefore conclude that the aircraft did not actually fly at the speeds they were said to have flown at. That doesn’t prove that they weren’t there, or didn’t crash into… Read more »

Ken Kenn
Reader
Ken Kenn

It was similar to an egg slicer. The problem is that once the planes hit the the 14″ – 1/4 2 thick box beams they would first hit the front of the box then the two sides of the box then the back of the box and about eight end on concrete pans with 4″ thick concretei n them thereby slowing the aircraft down as it entered the building. We did not witness the rest of the aircraft’s non penetrative backend fall awayfrom the building as its momentum slowed. If the aircraft was slowed down measurably – how could the… Read more »

Butties
Reader
Butties

“WTC facade was mostly glass”
Lets have the stats for that please. Mostly steel box section with small opening for glass is the photographic evidence. Do you have a link to the ‘blueprints’ by any chance?

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

also see here; it appears that the width of the steel box columns is actually rather less than that of the spaces between them. there is some kind of thin aluminum cladding which is then applied to the columns, but that wouldn’t provide much impediment to the passage of a 200-ton airplane.

Antonym
Reader
Antonym

Aluminium from the aircraft, iron oxide (rust) from the columns and high temperature can also be the components of a thermite for a redux reaction, which can cut through just about anything.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Tungsten is also used to make kinetic penetrator slugs which are able to defeat steel tank armour.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

said aeroplane ‘Made of Aluminium’ and alloys thereof! The landing gear struts are most definitely made of steel, rather than aluminum; I’m not sure about the wing spars. The engine cores are presumably made of titanium or tungsten alloys, or something like that. Tungsten is also used to make kinetic penetrator slugs which are able to defeat steel tank armour. A disposable ball-point pen (“BIC”) is made entirely of plastic, except for the tiny metal (tungsten!) ball and socket at the very tip. And yet with such a pen, you could easily punch a hole through an aluminum Coke can.… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

It wasn’t a collapse due to a plane impact that is for sure.

I never said it was. For anybody with eyes to see, it is obviously a controlled demolition, accomplished with what must have been enormous quantities of explosives.

I am merely concerned to refute the disinformational claim that there were no aircraft impacts at all, numerous videos and thousands of direct witnesses notwithstanding.

Butties
Reader
Butties

“there is some kind of thin aluminum cladding which is then applied to the columns, but that wouldn’t provide much impediment to the passage of a 200-ton airplane.” said areoplane ‘Made of Aluminium’ and alloys thereof! Looking at the blurred ‘blue prints’ can you tell me what happened to the central core of steel columns and beams? Given that this structure is a massive cantilever where the ‘core’ is the actual structure, what happened to it? Where did it go? Why is there no large stump in the debris? I may be a tad late getting into this event but… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Why yes, I do:

http://www2.ae911truth.org/WTC1_blueprints.php

See any of the prints labelled “Floor Plan”, for the upper floors. It appears that the width of the box columns is roughly the same as that of the window spaces between them, so perhaps “mostly” wasn’t quite accurate.

You might get the same impression from pictures such as these:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/wtc1hole1.html

Butties
Reader
Butties

Just had a quick look at the ‘plans’ but they are at such a small scale that ‘blown up’ they are illegible. However there does seem to be an anology between the height of the floor to floor on the plan sections (even though the dimensions are illegible) and that shown in your photograph link. At a rough estimate based on the height of the man in the photo we are looking at circa 8metres floor to floor! Am I missing a floor plate somewhere or did the aluminium airframe take that out as well?

Butties
Reader
Butties

Thanks for that link to the ‘blue prints’ I will have a look. One question you may be able to answer and save me time is “What is the height between floors at the level of the impact?” The reason this is of interest is that the floor plate would provide massive resistance to anything hitting it from the side.

Elizabeth Woodworth
Reader
Elizabeth Woodworth

I strongly recommend reading Dr. MacQueen’s article on JFK and 9/11 from start to finish. Dr. MacQueen is one of the most steadfast, articulate and meticulous researchers into 9/11. This powerful new Salandria Approach to the topic has produced one of his best essays.

The monumental and utterly transparent guilt of the institutions that the public hires to keep it safe is almost beyond comprehension.

This essay should ignite outrage and a cry for justice from even the most insensitive of hearts.

ss
Reader
ss

Mossad in cahoots with certain people in the US administration was responsible for both the JFK assassination and the 9/11 false flag “attacks”.

John2o2o
Reader
John2o2o

Grassy Knowl. The problem is that eyewitnesses are confused and uncertain. Possibly even panicking when a scene such as Kennedy’s murder unfolds. I have no problem with the official story of his killing, nor with the official narrative on 9/11. The American deep state tried many times to kill Castro and failed. You’re telling me that they got it right with Kennedy? I’m sure that you can justify your idea, but if this was some sort of state sanctioned killing I think they would have made a better job of covering it up. Lee Harvey Oswald would be an unlikely… Read more »

John G
Reader
John G

” You’re not going to shift my view on that, no matter how hard you try.”

Thanks for the warning/admission.

mark
Reader
mark

I believe in pixies, elves, leprechauns, Father Christmas, Roger the Rabbit, the Skripal Poisoning, and everything the MSM tells me.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic
different frank
Reader
different frank

Many of the same Saudi “terrorists” were reported alive and well after the event.

different frank
Reader
different frank

Admin please delete one of these.

different frank
Reader
different frank

I’m amazed that many of them were reported alive and well after the 11th of September.

flaxgirl
Reader

The false-flag analyst, Ole Dammegard, says that an insider told him that the power elite justify their hoaxing of us by providing us gratuitously, in addition to the preposterousness of their basic story, additional signs including ridiculousness, impossibilities, things that don’t add up, contradictions, smiling grievers, obviously doctored imagery and on and on – it’s up to us to call them out and if we don’t the fault’s on us, sparing them from karmic repercussions. They also obviously derive a huge amount of amusement from pushing the envelope in their shameless hoaxery. For 9/11 they gave us the “alive and… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

No actual Arabs and Moslems were involved in the 9/11 event, as the aircraft were not actually hijacked, but rather flown to their targets by autopilot. The official patsies are simply people who were present in the US at some time, for flight training or other purposes, and had their passports stolen by government agents while they were there. BBC — Hijack ‘suspects’ alive and well Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. The identities of four of the 19 suspects… Read more »

Gary Weglarz
Reader
Gary Weglarz

John2o2o – you: (“I am quite sure that he (Oswald) killed Kennedy. You’re not going to shift my view on that, no matter how hard you try.”) & (“I have no doubt that the Saudi terrorists who committed the 9/11 atrocity . . .”) — If these fact-free absurd assertions, (both of which fly in the face of the laws of physics and the witness testimony), are meant to be some sort of “argument” all I can say is you missed your calling – you should have served the power structure as a member of the Warren Commission or the… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

If these fact-free absurd assertions are meant to be some sort of “argument”, all I can say is you missed your calling — you should have served the power structure as a member of the Warren Commission or the 9/11 Commission. That you would state such evidence free drivel as your opinion suggests a deeply reactionary psyche — one that is more comfortable with the myths and fairy tales promoted by the powerful — rather than facing reality.

Vineyard Saker — When sanity fails — the mindset of the “ideological drone”

vexarb
Reader

Gary: “De Gaulle … predicted: “They don’t want to know. They don’t want to find out. They won’t let themselves find out.” Sadly you (wherever you reside) … have proven him quite correct in predicting the moral and intellectual cowardice of the West.”

De Gaulle confirms Solzhenitsyn’s opinion at Harvard, on the decline of civic courage in the West. Two great political minds thinking alike. Both of them mocked and rejected by Main Stream Western Opinion.

“Humankind cannot bear very much reality” — TS Eliot

Hugh O'Neill
Reader
Hugh O'Neill

Fool or Knave? Lets give you the benefit of the doubt and suppose the former: do governments lie? Did Bush & Blair lie about WMD in Iraq? If they did, how many innocents have died because of those lies? Even if one cannot care less about Arabs or Muslims, a lot of US and UK servicemen have died too – because of those same lies. Gulf of Tonkin anyone? Maybe 58,000 US soldiers died in the Vietnam War (and even more committed suicide after). Pentagon Papers? Do governments lie? Watergate? Khashoggi? The jailing of Bradley Manning and the persecution of… Read more »

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Fool or knave?

The first-level disinfo shills, such as this one, confuse only those who want to be confused. It’s the second-level shills, such as those who claim “no planes”, or “no casualties”, who do more serious damage, as they serve to discredit people who are trying to understand.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Reader
Mulga Mumblebrain

‘Fool or knave?’ Probably both.