DISCUSS: Theresa May Promises to Resign
The weird world of post-Brexit vote UK politics swirls around some more. Now, in order to try to force her deal through the commons, May has pledged to resign as Prime Minister.
The field is set for a Tory leadership contest – the field for which is as narrow as it is unpromising. Boris Johnson is national joke, and sign that Britons will so far as to actually vote ironically. Michael Gove is a slimy lunatic, so right-wing that Ken Clarke and Liam Fox “raise their eyebrows”. Sajid Javid is as forgettable as he is unpopular. Amber Heard was found in contempt of Parliament less than a year ago.
In the final analysis we will have a Prime Minister the people didn’t chose, leading a parliament with no majority to force through a deal that’s already lost a commons vote. Twice.
British “democracy” is becoming a joke.
- How long before a General Election simply has to be called?
- Will the Labour MPs who scheme to replace Corbyn sabotage their own party, again?
- Will the Independet Group be wiped out of Parliament?
- Will the Tories hold off on the GE until Corbyn has been further smeared and/or forcibly removed? Or will the just fix the vote?
- Will the increasing attempts to dismantle the very idea of Brexit be successful?
- Is Brexit ever going to actually happen?
Discuss below.
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The current imbroglio has really highlighted that our political system is deeply anachronistic, suitable only for vain nincompoops like Bercow who are addicted to the dated theatrics of it all. The whole idea of electing local representatives to send to a parliament in London is the creation of the horse-drawn carriage age. It will surely sooner or later dawn on us all that as we are now in the internet age we no longer need to pretend that one person can somehow represent the views of thousands of constituents. Every single member of the electorate can now remotely participate in government debates and votes, and history will certainly pan out this way. The only question is how long will it take for the self-important buffoons in parliament to be phased out and invited to spend all (not just more of) their time with their families. Not before time we have… Read more »
Exactly.
Indeed, BCD Berk-Cow Diseased vanity, fairly & legitimately speaks for ‘one size fits all’ and yer’ so right about the revelation. Players do behave so very differently from mere spectators.
Great to read your views again, Ross:
where on earth have you been, up the Limpopo ? 🙂
Your level headed viewpoint was sorely missed, on many occasions, say I . . .
‘Keeping things whole’
In a field
I am the absence
of field.
This is
always the case.
Wherever I am
I am what is missing.
When I walk
I part the air
and always
the air moves in
to fill the spaces
where my body’s been.
We all have reasons
for moving.
I move
to keep things whole.
Mark Strand
Hope you are fit & well,
Best wishes,
Tim
Serious Question: Doesn’t participating in this irredeemably corrupt and dysfunctional system just give it undeserved legitimacy and sustain it well past its sell by date?
“Everybody must be really happy with our sham democracy Kosher Sandwich Shitshow because they all voted in our bogus meaningless elections.”
In 2016, 130 million people voted for the Orange Baboon, Crooked Hillary and the Green Idiot. 120 million (48%) didn’t vote at all. They realised that the whole tawdry, degrading spectacle was completely irrelevant to their lives.
Suppose that 120 million became 250 million, and nobody voted for these totally worthless, arrogant, corrupt, self serving, degenerate Zionist stooge pieces of filth. That even their own dog wouldn’t vote for them. Wouldn’t that cut them down to size and put them in their place?
Just asking. .
On the topic of “democracy” there is this wonderful passage from the preface to Guido Giacomo Preparata’s “Conjuring Hitler”. It is a footnote that starts on page 3. It’s a whopper of a quote but it’s well worth reading: “So-called ‘democracy’ is a sham, the ballot a travesty. In modern bureaucratized systems, whose birth dates from the mid-nineteenth century, the feudal organization has been carried to the next level, so to speak. A chief objective of what Thucydides referred to in his epoch as synomosiai (literally ‘exchanges of oaths’), that is, the out-of-sight fraternities acting behind the ruling clans, has been to make the process of the exaction of rents from the population (a ‘free income’ in the form of rents, financial charges and like thefts) as unfathomable and impenetrable as possible. The tremendous sophistication, and the propagandistic wall of artfully divulged misconceptions surrounding the banking system (we will return… Read more »
or……
on page 96 of ‘Proletarian Internationalism: Guideline of the Communists’, by V. Plyanksky, published in 1970
by Novosti Press Agency Publishing House, Moscow25.
The United States practices a form of’democratism’ – maintaining the illusion of democracy for public consumption, but in practice offering the electorate no more than the appearance of a choice of personnel ostensibly from the ‘Left’ or the ‘Right’ of the dialectic, while the intelligence services, which are in turn controlled by the Illuminati at the highest levels, in fact control the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of the overt Government, selecting and imposing their own candidates.” Christopher Story
I don’t doubt that the same applies to the bunch of well paid puppets in the HoC/HoL.
The UK is one of the very few countries without a true revolution. The Cromwell episode was two cheeks of the same bum fighting over which cheeck would have the right to repress the masses.
Time is due for the masses to own their destiny an dismanlte a fake democracy.
Democracy is the worst system of operation apart from all the others – said a member of the elite.
Time for people power.
I’ve long been of the opinion that Brexit is essentially a soft coup by the Americans. The first phase was getting the plebs to believe it was patriotic to support Leave, with the help of half-American Johnson, and then forcing Cameron out (I suspect by blackmail, given his past). Then May was installed in strange circumstances and without a vote by Conservative Party members. The second phase seems to be to get rid of May, present a hobson’s choice Brexit to the Commons, and then blame May’s deal on Remainers. Next they install one of Murdoch/the CIA’s favourites Johnson, Gove or Raab for the real takeover. I get the feeling that things have gone wrong, however. The opposition parties have been surprisingly solid in opposition to May’s deal while many Tories have refused to back down. On top of that there is a backlash among the public against Brexit, as… Read more »
I find your thinking inside out. Brexit wasn’t meant to happen and the Americans didn’t want us to leave, but they can live with any option (we are replaceable at the European table). You seem to have swallowed the ERG’s evil machinations line. They (ERG) are a group of disparate people, who by and large aren’t Atlanticists, they are more likely to be libertarians or nationalists, the main body of MPs from all parties, those who would call themselves centrists, are far more likely to be Atlanticists, people like Ruth Smeeth. They would never break with NATO and are happy for us to platform American nuclear weapons and follow American foreign policy.
From where I’m standing it’s people like you who empower those who would keep us a client to American interests because of your political naivety…..pro remain propagandists can twist you round their metaphorical fingers.
I find it hard to work out, whether Theresa May is an idiot or a genius. She has however managed to p1ss off, absolutely Everyone, on all political sides, and is still our Prime Minister. This is an extremely rare skill, and has managed to stimulate some fantastic honest writing, for the first time in years, from “journalists”, and some “politicians”. For the first time in years, it has been worth reading The Guardian, and The Daily Mail. I will try and give a few quotes “F*** knows. I’m past caring. It’s like the living dead in here’: Cabinet minister ‘captures mood of the nation’ on Brexit in foul-mouthed quote read out on air by Newsnight’s political editor” “The sense of despair around today’s vote continued when Emily Maitlis told minister Tobias Ellwood: ‘You’re putting back on the table a horse so dead, flogged to death, it’s practically a glue… Read more »
More like the days are counting down to a revocation of Article 50. This is where the deadlock leads and she knows it. The aim is to engineer a cross party betrayal of the brexit vote and so exempt either of the main two political parties from electoral slaughter. Treason May. Authoritarian and war criminal.
Brexit. Another Zionist led divide and rule operation. Announced by David Cameron PM (Zionist). They have no intention of leaving at the moment. They have had three years to prepare and if they had any INTENTION of leaving, we would be seeing all manner of things happening which simply are not being done. We would see upgrades and staffing changes etc at the borders, new signs, new road layouts especially Calais. We would see new accounting systems being implemented, nationwide updates for businesses to implement with a sound idea of what to expect. They should and could be organised, if they had any intention of leaving. Where is the intent? Where are the visible signs that it is going ahead? They would be selling us a story of new horizons, a new Britain emerging, but they are not doing that. There will be one of two outcomes: Brexit – massive… Read more »
I commented earlier, but it didn’t show up?
Meanwhile The Guardian’s CIF has entrenched it’s position as a Safe Space for sneering slippery types to look down their snouts at the plebs for voting the “wrong” way, and being “hoodwinked” by evil Russians.
One of the pleasures of Brexit has been to watch the daft hissy fit of hysterical Guardianistas unfold since June 2016.
These two characters are a hoot: https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/12992447?page=1 and https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/14453227?page=1 one’s the world’s most angry man and the other’s some bloke who thinks he’s a btl journo. It all shows what living in a bubble does, they have the same conversations every day.
Theresa May is employed for one purpose – to get ‘her’ deal passed? Brexit was employed for multi purposes, none of which was any intention to share power through democratic process. Nor is UE an intention to share power via democratic process. There is a front end to the technocratic roll-out that employs crisis actors to play out the semblance of a process of communication, struggle or contest – but either the outcome is rigged, or both outcomes are to the same ends – but also that the timing of the process is part of undermining the current order for the purpose of reconfiguring it to a new order or indeed tightening the rack. I happened to walk through the City of London today after normal working hours spills the multitude to their destinations or to fill and spill out of pubs and bars where the noise of release into… Read more »
“I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. I’ve seen Boris Johnson spaffing public money over the shoulder of Gove. I’ve watched Jess Phillips’ face light up, like a Thebian sea-cabbage, as she perused the menu in the subsidised canteen. And I’ve seen Chris Grayling gently fall off the end of a deserted rail platform.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.”
T May (Replicant)
At least Roy Batty lasted his full three years.
The beauty of the UK Constitution is that it is unwritten. Which in effect means that we don’t have a genuine constitution as there are no written and established rules of procedure. Governments should be subordinate to constitution, but in the UK the ‘constitution’ such as it is, is subordinate to the government. It should not be forgotten that in the UK we have an unelected head of state, Queen Elizabeth, an unelected second chamber (the House of Lords) and a two-party, first-past-the-post cartel in the Lower House (House of Commons) whereby governments are always elected by a minority of the electorate. Hmmm the claim of democracy seems to stretch credulity to breaking point. Personally I blame Cromwell for not wiping out the whole Royal entourage, and even more the traitor Fairfax for bringing back Charles the Second from France to sit on the English throne. We should have taken… Read more »
Francis Lee, I have a French friend from many years ago, who lives in Nice, and he sent me a video, of an extemely mild peaceful protest of a few locals (maybe 100) wearing yellow jackets, and bearing flags in a central square in Nice. It seemed there were more press photographers and police there. His friend had only been there for less than 5 minutes. All he had done was chain his bike up, and was viciously attacked by The French Police, and Arrested, and later this year, has his court date. He is charged with rebellion. Very little of what has been going on in France appears in any mainstream media or on TV. I find this situation rather scary, and feel inhibited from visiting my friend in Nice, and have no plans to travel to Paris. I would rather not have a revolution in The UK. I… Read more »
Quite and it is the height of cheek to accuse Speaker Bercow of utilising archane rules to prevent the same old song being sung for a third time in the House. May and her government have hidden behind the Throne for three years with Royal prerogatives and Henry the Eighth laws and if not for private subject ( Gina Miller ) going to Court Parliament may well have not discussed things at all. What all the fuss has been about is the declining numbers of the electorate who vote for the Tory party historically. They rarely represented big cities and towns but represent the Shires. There are a lot of Shires in England. This unfortunately a playing out of an English Parliament Cameron threatened Scotland with during the Scottish Independence vote and good old Gordon held hands with the Tory idiot who gave us an EU referendum he ( and… Read more »
Our constitution is indeed written, but unlike the yankee rush-job of 1776?, it took its time to fall into place. Natural growth describes it nicely. Key manuscripts can be found at ukgov.co.uk; I think that will get you there. Key docs. to pull out, (in pdf.), are, for starters, Magna Carta, (1215), Petition of Rights, (1626), Declaration of Rights, and the subsequent Bill o’Rights (1688/9). The Act of Union, (1701), Various Acts concerningTreason, House of Lords judgements; the list goes on. To abbreviate , No man is above the Law, albeit a parliament, or a king.—– The “Head of State is, (technically), elected; (see Coronation Oath) and is under oath to fulfil contract. —- Our parliament is in breach of its mandate, and in all cases is simply the mouthpiece by which our governonce of occupation, (i.e. The EU), passes its decrees and dictats. —– If you have never tested… Read more »
Royalist rule may mean that you end up with a dud every once in a while, but the advantages of continuity, structure and stability outweigh the procedure of dragging in someone every few years according to the whims of an ignorant public swayed by the latest cultural fads and scandals but mainly by the hope of spending someone else’s money, the defect that was first noted in the Athenian democracy, along with the observation that all democracy seems to end in tyranny, whether the tyranny of the masses or some particular actor. The outcome of a revolution does seem to invariably result in the elevation of a tyrant and the ruin of the masses that so eagerly supported him in his usually murderous endeavours to eradicate the object of their envy. Unfortunately these unfortunate masses also come to realise that everyone else’s money is actually their own, the government spends… Read more »
“….an ignorant public swayed by the latest cultural fads and scandals but mainly by the hope of spending someone else’s money…”
The public are not as ignorant as the media make out – and it is the media’s aim to induce cynicism and despair. And as for that old patronising chestnut about “someone else’s money”, government is always about how to spend public funds. As always there is this assumption that individuals exist in some kind of solipsistic vacuum where they create their own world. Which automatically leads to that blase assumption that the rich deserve to be rich and the poor deserve to be poor.
There is a basic misunderstanding with Brexit. In reality it was not Britain, or rather, the British Working Class, that decided to leave the EU. On the contrary, it was the Establishment and the political elites of Britain and the EU that LEFT, UNDERMINED AND DESTROYED the European Union by using it, undemocratically, illegally and treacherously, as a back door and fake alibi to swamp the labour markets with cheap labor from the new Eastern regions of the EU and the world. This was a blatant breach of the original aims and agreements of the European Union. That is why the British were right in voting for Brexit and they are the ones that are upholding the true European Union project and long term aims. That is why Labour, the party of traitors that opened the doors to mass uncontrolled migration and created this situation, cannot decide its policy, as… Read more »
Not quite.
There was always a strong undercurrent of ordinary British people who had sensed, or even seen very clearly, the fundamental corruption at the heart of the EU as it has become today. The EU was, of course, a good idea from many points of view, but the people who control it are the same people who control everything else which is thoroughly rotten in the western world. The modern “working class” is not as ignorant as many suppose. The Internet has seen to that, thank heaven.
The EU was sold, without mentioning it, as a kind socialist organisation that could save the day and compete with the Soviet Union and the USA. People thought that the very fact of the union could even out the ‘rough’ edges and drag all towards more socialism and progress. The collapse of the USSR, changed the whole situation, dragging instead the working classes towards a liberal ‘union’ and their own destruction and reverting their lives to the XIX Century, through mass uncontrolled migration, delocalisation, unfair competition, etc… Internet is helping, indeed, to create resistance and, possibly, to create a teleproletarian or electroproletarian (eproletarian) but, especially after the ‘unsuccessful’ revolts of the Arab world, it is still to be seen if that could be enough.
I cannot remember any socialist organisation ; ‘saving the day’, but I am aware of an FCO bending over backwards to fund those for the entry into the EEC, during the premiership of E. Heath, a Tory. If you imagine that Bliar was inspired by genuine socialist principles! ????? He wasn’t. Both Bliar and Heath received the ‘Charlemagne Prize’. Heath by blackmail, Bliar by pure greed. With that said, I object to being characterised as a ‘eproletarian’, or any some such descriptive, laid upon me by a personna presented and designed to sound authoritative. I am not a class, I am a man. I am a man born within an sovereign jurisdiction, which accedes to its subjects inherent, (or God given), rights, and demands some reasonable duties. —– If man was free to communicate, without fear of prosecution, the internet would already be obsolete. And, BTW, the EU was already… Read more »
Perfidious Albion on the knees. Delicious!
With extracts from the website theyworkforyou and the daily express (apologies for that). Are links no longer allowed here?, I wrote the following words. The ones in quotes are not mine. The others are. I try and obey the rules. It’s a sad state of affairs, that almost the only MP, that has any integrity, so far as The Law is concerned with regards to BREXIT, is a person I completely disagree with regards to most of his political views on UK foreign policy with regards to War, and many aspects of his views on social policy. “Almost always voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas” “Consistently voted for the Iraq war” “Consistently voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system ” “Almost always voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the “bedroom tax”)… Read more »
I find it curious how we all readily accept that the Tories have debased just about everything they’ve touched, yet continue to assume that the ballot is uncorrupted.
These are gangsters, democracy means nothing to them, nor their intimate bedfellows in the secret intelligence services. They wouldn’t hesitate to rig ballots and it takes surprisingly few votes to swing a few critical seats.
I’d far rather assume that they are as a matter of course stuffing ballot boxes, or whatever else might be done to achieve the desired result.
.
It’s a sad state of affairs, that almost the only MP, that has any integrity, so far as The Law is concerned with regards to BREXIT, is a person I completely disagree with regards to most of his political views on UK foreign policy with regards to War, and many aspects of his views on social policy. “Almost always voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas” “Consistently voted for the Iraq war” “Consistently voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system ” “Almost always voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the “bedroom tax”) “Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices” “Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability” However – I do agree with him on… Read more »
the tory party, albeit rich, is in dire need of youth and a leader who can be both reliable and a magnet – dominic raab
I doubt raab’s thatcherism on steroids would be magnetic to anybody but plutocrats and some of the conservatives’ hard right elderly membership.
You Must be joking, the same raab who thinks the only reason people use food banks is because they have a cash flow problem, and the same imbecile that has only just realised that Dover is the main arterial route for exports, you couldn’t make it up, yea he would be fine.
On Boris Johnson –
“A man who betrays his family will betray his country”
Only one thing seems completely certain. No matter which Tory freak replaces May or if she stays on, whether they completely balls up Brexit or just mostly balls it up, everything will be done to cast them in the best possible light and Corbyn in the worst possible light, up to and beyond the next election.
Almost time for Scotland to divest itself from Tweedle Dum/Tweedle Dee, Tory and Labour sham “democratic” parties. This circus has gone on far too long.
A compelling narrative back in 2014, when Labour was complicit in the Torirs’ austerity scam and the independence movement was boldly led by a maverick sceptical of the neocon establishment. That was the year of golden opportunity..
It appears TreasonMay has unilaterally decided that the UK is not leaving the eu on 29th March. As I understand it a Statutory Instrument was laid on Monday 25th March but has NOT been voted on as is the usual occurence in both the HoC and HoL. It appears that our consttution and parliamentary processes can be overridden at ease by this evil dictatorial PM – via a letter to the european council.This letter takes presidence over UK law. Domestic law is not now aligned with eu/ international law. Her so called resignation after a ‘deal’ is passed is yet more fillibustering. What if a ‘deal’ isn’t secured – is she going to hang around longer?? This Government is acting beyond its authority. There is now no sovereignty in the UK – sovereignty lies with the people – the Queen fails to uphold our constitution and protect the people. Only… Read more »
Will the Tories hold off on the GE until Corbyn has been further smeared and/or forcibly removed? Or will they just fix the vote? -They will try anything I think. Civil war probably. What happened to the boundary changes BTW? Will the increasing attempts to dismantle the very idea of Brexit be successful? Is Brexit ever going to actually happen? -I think that BigB and others on here have made the case that sovereignty (in the form of militrary command) has already slipped away quietly to mainland Europe. The manopoly of violence that is the state, is no longer to be held by British parliament-monarchy. The fundamental role of the state is ‘defence of the realm’, and although it could be argued that we have lived in an American led empire since 1945, there clearly are geopolitical re-alignments taking place. The farce in Westminster is not the failure that it… Read more »
Crank I did make that case: the UK ceased to be a nation state and no one noticed. As Bob put above: we are now an occupied protectorate under EU/NATO suzerainty – effectively under the civil/military occupation of a foreign potentate. If anyone thinks this is mere hyperbole or melodramatic rhetoric: try taking it to your MP or MEP for them to represent further up the hierarchical foodchain of pseudo-validation. The secret apex predators that actually exercise decision making are not listening. The Constitutional and democratic coup d’etat was run through the Cabinet Office: whose policy it has been since 1948. It was announced as a ‘fait accomplis’ by our new Foreign Minister Mogherini at the Munich Security Conference. This was the completion of the vision of the founding fathers of the Fatherland, sorry, EU ‘Superpower’. It may or may not have started out the way: but that is what… Read more »
You’re definitely not talking to yourself, BigB. I absolutely agree with you. Keep chipping away at the trusters and eventually you’ll make a enough of an impact for at least some of them to switch off the BBC. It’s not like our (non) representatives haven’t made a monumental arsewipe of the entire Brexit affair, (not divorce) for people to finally see that our constitution has gone to tit. Then wait for the elite and it’s media poodles to blame the next and imminent financial crash on ‘uneducated’ populist plebs.
I’m listening, BigB, and thus have become acquainted with UK Column and John Bingley, and learned a number of important things I did not know before. Primary among them is that the UK has a written constitution and that the govt. (is it really a government?) and crown are in breach of it. This is treason as I understand it, unless someone more informed than me can prove otherwise. If this reading of events is sound, then the people are now at war with their ‘government’ and their ‘monarch’ even if we don’t know it in sufficient numbers. It looks like we may not know it in sufficient numbers for a very long time, if ever. This was always going to be a long battle – between elitist mendacity/power-lust and people-power/democracy – and is anyway a constant tension in any nation/state, but what makes this iteration of it particularly troublesome… Read more »
Toby: how the Devil have you been! Well, as you know, the Queen – not wearing the the Crown – was dressed for Ascot for the State Opening. So, no: it is not a Government. So that lessens the charge of High Treason. I guess we can commute the sentence to life imprisonment ….same as they have bestowed upon us. 😉 “No taxation without representation”. There is a whole range of measures to be employed once the Zombie Massif realise that switching off and disengaging from politics is no longer and option. I would say that is part of the ploy: but I believe that we are witnessing self-organised ineptitude on a gargantuan scale. The political elite alluded to on Wednesday’s Column are operating behind an idiocracy of trans-national disunity. Genuine representation and an actual Opposition could have stopped the Treason in its tracks. Parliament has to take the loins… Read more »
Freudian typo of the Year: “loins share of the blame.” What a beaut! Made my morning.
I’m not too bothered by the paper-money ‘wealth’ spaffed in whichever direction, far more so about that which it is said to represent: ecosystem and community health/wealth. For me, wealth and health should be treated as symbiotic synonyms, if you’ll excuse the overwrought semantics. One is meaningless without the other. Let them have their paper money and eat it. We are about the business of true wealth creation.
Works for me! Given what Freud was all about – psychosexual repression – it just about sums up the sad sorry State of affairs. Health and wealth are both inextricably linked to an actualised experiential of wholes – not the disconnected parts we are reduced to under capitalism. Disconnected parthood is automatically a state of dis-ease. Reducing everything to a collection of unrelated objects that are symbolically isolated, assigned a value, ranked by utility, monetised acordingly, and symbolically exchanged for general purpose paper (or virtual currency) is quite a silly process when reductio ad absurdum. Especially when the state of wholism PRECEDES the process of unequal – often enforced and violent – exchange. The entire capitalist ethos is a violent error pogrom that destroys the whole to create and fill a hole – that hole being the loss of completeness that precedes the processual destruction. A torture analogy I know… Read more »
Reducing everything to a collection of unrelated objects that are symbolically isolated, assigned a value, ranked by utility, monetised acordingly, and symbolically exchanged for general purpose paper (or virtual currency) is quite a silly process when reductio ad absurdum.
Well said. Although I note the ad absurdum part does in fact lead inexorably to a realisation that matter is not actually ‘there’, is in fact nothing but experienced information, etc. This then forces us to confront perception as the primary reality. Were we to be truly scientific about the reductio line of reasoning, we would end up with irreducible subjectivity, a point increasingly conceded by growing numbers of materialists and one very close to your hear.
If I may point out my own reference to Skinner: if you need an analogy for capitalist exchange – look no further than the applied behaviourism of his Token Economy. We are being shaped – and I mean a wholly inclusive ‘we’: them and us – toward a certain set of algorithmic consumerist behavioural responses by our adherence to token or symbolic exchange. We exchange work/labour for token worthless paper (secondary reinforcement); to exchange for material rewards (primary reinforcement). In effect, we are repurchasing our work at a reduced unequal rate – because the capitalist infrastructure and superstructure have to be financed by our tax and profit from our labour. So we are cheapened and diminished by the process – but it is hard to live if you do not monetise our labour and engage in unequal exchange – but you get nice things, hopefully, and maybe a holiday. That’s… Read more »
@BigB: What a journey we conjured! Freud –> Skinner –> Cartesian Error Protocols –> Dynamic Systems Theory. If only the doing were as easy as the mapping. Actually, it’s because the doing is so challenging that growth of consciousness towards maturity and love is worth the effort. As the saying went back during Occupy: We’re the ones we’re waiting for. And then there was: Respect existence or expect resistance. I always liked that one. Reminds me of veganism. 😉 @Binra: In my view and very briefly, there is only perception/interpretation, albeit in a consensus reality composed of points of evolving perspective, or unit-wholes of consciousness (you could say soul) that are themselves complexes within the larger-order complex, all netted together yet distinct in their qualities and vectors. I am not attracted to the ‘end-state’ or ‘goal’ of some featureless oneness; there’s just less complexity there to make existence rewardingly challenging,… Read more »
@Toby No one lives this world but has some thought and image of self and world. I do my best to communicate the ineffable – but no one is obliged to agree! What we believe about our mind is the predicate of all else that follows – hence I use the term ‘split mind’ for a split off sense of subjective interaction with perceived reality – the result of which is an ‘experience’ that is equally valid with any and every other experience AS a result or feedback to the use the mind is being put – otherwise we could not ‘change our mind’. However, what Mind is and does is not in any true sense editable by thought even if it is imagined and experienced as a conflicted investment or identity. The role of terror in any tyranny is central for without it life in would no longer be-lived… Read more »
I feel that it isn’t that matter is real or not, so much as it matters to us in terms of meanings given or accepted and shared. Perceptions are results of an interpretive structure of thought within which we focus and hold a sense of identity or value in – ie it matters to us, we give attention, and align in intention within a movement of desire or fulfilment. That we do so as if against our will is part of our interpretive self imaging taken for the ‘Implicate’ reality that it at best extends and reflects as experience, perspective, recognition. Reality cannot be directly perceived. But recognition of Reality is Its Own Knowing. What does it profit a man to gain a mind of interpreted reality if it costs knowing All That (he) Is? In the world this is reversed; What is the profit of knowing if it costs… Read more »
C’mon Binra: if there is ever to be a scientific revolution (Kuhn’s preferred term for the trite ‘paradigm shift’) that fully validates both objectivity and subjectivity: surely it needs to be philosophically precise? I know this is not necessarily the place for that, and we both get tone policed for our use of language (not necessarily wrongly, I can admit to) – but this type of sentence needs clarifying. It does not make sense as it is: “Reality cannot be directly perceived. But recognition of Reality is Its Own Knowing.” If reality cannot be directly perceived: it is not reality. It’s noumenal, transcendent, or implicate – not made immanent or explicate. For language to make any sense: for it to be a map to index experience to; and to anchor the abstraction and wild approximations it has become – the experience of the real has to map to the referent… Read more »
You choose to use the term ‘reality’ for what I regard as a construct or interpreted outcome. I understand and often use ‘reality’ or reality-experience for perception. But as far as I am concerned Mind is the source and true location of meanings given to its relations, and so I locate reality in the Implicate and its reflected extension as the explicate – to use Bohm’s terms. We are never going to arrive at a universal set of symbols and meanings and so we have to tune in to the context and usage of other people or other disciplines or cultures. Whatever Reality is, (Big R) what we act from in acceptance and belief as true is real for us in that moment. The capacity to ‘live in the model’ without recognising anything true is what I often call the split mind and you may perhaps refer to as a… Read more »
Binra To provide real world solutions to this universal discord of suffering: we need a diagnosis. That is that it is wholly a psycholinguistc psychosis we face. Real world felt, experiential suffering is caused by pseudo-world anti-realist linguistic fictions. That the world is not wholly bad is testament to human spirit, and at least a modicum of grounding the quasi-real in the real. It also implies a degree or degrees of intensification and extremisation of the real, felt, emotional lived experiential into something more inimical – rewarding our bad behavioural trends with capital and material pseudo-wealth. None of this happens outside consciousness. That should be apodeictic or totally beyond dispute – but it is metaphysically mystified by the ‘split mind’. Mind that is split by language – there is no other way to dichotomise experience. It cannot be physically split, it can only be metaphysically split. Metaphysics is entirely an… Read more »
Dear BigB I an uncovering a language that bridges ‘Heaven and Earth’, or Heart and mind, or Spirit and ego, as my own posting. This is to say – I know the territory of which I describe or point to, directly – regardless of whether the symbols, terms and meanings find resonance with another. Part of my point would be that both ‘voices’ are within us – but they are mutually exclusive in the same sense that Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. I came in through the back door – that is experientially – and only developed articulations over a period of integration that spans four decades or so – but specifically NOT from the basis of fitting the new wine into the old mind. Rather a repurposing of the contents and abilities of the old mind – to the healing or reintegrative movement – in place of… Read more »
BTW There are a range of ‘reasons’ for the stuckness and usurping of science but new finds are ongoing and older but hidden history rediscovered. I see people like Gerald Pollack as reopening true science in the midst of what we thought we knew and the Dark Cosmology will eventually have to accept Plasma physics as scalar to all levels of manifest existence. But the anthropomorphic reversal of cause and effect resists the recognition of true cause because it is deeply invested in the idea of cause projected away from the self – as the generating of an external ’cause’ that can be flagged (and attacked) instead of full self (disclosure). The idea that the ‘terrain’ is the key factor rather than protagonists – be that Planetary gods or pathogens – is in the right direction. But ‘terrain’ is not just out there as scenery in which drama or actions… Read more »
Despite all my rage, i’m no longer a rat in a cage, BigB and spend more time laughing with or@people.
Have a like: if nothing other than for squeezing plenipotentiary in twice and ending with Billy ‘C’ 🙂
1979 , another rhyme & reason for smashing pumpkins to save seeds and solve prostate problems & as a reminder of the ‘Winter of Discontent’, when i swore i would never in life, pay the British Brainwash Corporation,
one penny . . . never have, never will.
Anybody who finances in any way the BBC is clearly ignorant of Science,
(inc. Attenborough !). Lovely photography David, shameful science, though . . .
Big B on the money again! Sums up the situation fantastically with a lawful remedy. You’re not talking to yourself, there’s probably 17.4m people feel the same.
The only thing the Brits are any good at is deluding themselves and lying. Just to take a few recent examples that spring to mind, they helped make Iraq a playground for jihadis. Likewise Libya, likewise Syria. They poisoned Sergei Skripal as a message to make sure everyone kept quiet about the laughable ‘Steele dossier’. David Kelly was murdered by the British state. Hilda Murrell was murdered by the British state. So was Willie Macrae. The UK actively supports Saudi Arabia in its murderous destruction of Yemen, and competes to sell the Saudis the most weapons. And all the time the propaganda machine keeps on turning and the BBC tells you how benevolent and wise the queen is and the Guardian tells you that the West is just like a kindly village policeman that only has the best intentions for everyone especially Venezuela and will eventually have to deal with… Read more »
OffG Why am I being told I am posting too quickly??? Are you mad? This was my first post today that you scrapped! It only took me all morning to compose.
So, OffG, What did you di with my post? What was in it that your Moderator was so offended and incensed by? That we should scrap the Impotent Parasitic Monarchy and have a truly Socialist Government. One man one vote?
We have to include in your list of things Brits are good at their ability to follow the whims of a Frump Clown US president (following a long row of previous specimens). But of course we all know that it is NOT, in fact, “the Brits” who do this, but the people who have usurped leadership and representation of the British people.
Hear hear harrumph
Whoever is PM, still has to endorse Brexit. Corbyn is close to de-endorsing it, having been pushed by the membership and many of his MPs, but if there was a GE he would then have to re-endorse it.
None of this is hard to understand. There was a referendum that both parties agreed to honour and the only way to honour that is to leave the EU. There’s nothing to stop us rejoining in the future, but there is no chance of a second referendum and a confirmatory referendum would be just as bad.
MPs are majority remain, the people voted otherwise. This is about democracy not “changing our minds”….after 3 years of intense anti leave propaganda.
Democracy? you truly believe it exists? we don’t even have so called ‘parliamentary democracy’ never mind democracy
Maygabe says many things at many times. They are never true.
British “democracy” is becoming a joke. Becoming? The nation that said to Ireland have your vote we will abide by it then kept hold of six counties. The nation that starved Bengal in the middle of ww2 just to bribe Greece. The nation that has starved hundreds of millions from America to Ireland to Africa, India and China. Yet the brits seem to think all those hundreds of millions died of love and hugs. The nation that still refuses to open up about operation Ajax in Iran. The nation that shot 14 people dead in Derry in full view of the worlds media then lied about it for 40+ years. The nation that allows its secret services to record babies and children being raped and killed just to blackmail some mps as opposed to jailing them. And the people still didn’t rise up! Britain has been a particularly sick and… Read more »
British democracy becoming a joke ? Lol British democracy became a joke back in the 80’s, when 55% of all votes cast, voted Liberal and yet Thatcher was re-elected, with a strong working majority in the Commons. Liberals had almost no representation and the 2 party system still ruled then & still does … Gerrymandering happened even long before the Scottish Devolution Referendum, but as all were so brilliantly manipulated by Murdoch on the Devolution vote & after his continuous designs & agenda for chaos & distraction, & after Leveson and Murdoch’s laughable statement in the High Courts, of his most “Humbling Moment”, you would be excused for thinking that some Official Body, might finally address his might & mighty hypocrisy and start talking >>> GOLAN HEIGHTS & GENIE ENERGY OIL & GAS ! ! ! Not a peeps on my radar. ! Riddle me that . . . See… Read more »
Your last paragraph! Amazing! Spot on we do have a dumbed down egotistically addicted drugged up greedy consumers as citizens and they all hate the truth.
i don’t think they’d hate the truth if it were explained to them gently, and with full context. some people are just a bit lazy. others are stone-cold and wilfully ignorant. still more have, as you say, been brainwashed
”Everybody” who relies on the British Brainwashing Corporation’s babysitter in the corner and the MSM presstitutes for truthful information is Lazy, Braindead and completely Befuddled. that is why there is such a cock up and why they will stand for anything.
As my dear Mum always said, ”You can’t educate sheep, baa baa. They are simply awaiting their slaughter.”
The Brexit saga reads like an old Russian poem where the cat listens to the Cook, but keeps eating all the food until there is nothing left to eat in the Kitchen.
https://russianliterature.quora.com/Ivan-Krylov-The-cat-listens-but-keeps-eating
Morale: As long as we talk about Brexit, nothing will change.
May is not saying she will ‘leave early’ if Her Deal is passed; she is saying she will stay on if it is not.
It is obvious by now that neither May nor her party nor the opposition can be trusted to lead the country if and when they get through this mess.
The reason we know this to be true is that they are not capable of doing so now.
Indeed it could be argued that the only viable option is to revoke Article 50 outright. This can be done without the consent of the EU.
There is no credible alternative to this shower in Parliament at the moment. When you read how the Labour Party have treated some of their own recently including Jackie Walker, then I wouldn’t trust them to deliver any meaningful changes to bring about equality.
Schadenfreude.
As the born to rule brigade get their knickers in a twist.
Erm, so what happens if May’s Brexit deal is rejected by MPs in her party <b<a third time? What part of the word “No” does the Prime Minister not understand?
It looks as if the British government simply cannot avoid calling a general election despite doing all it can to stave off the possibility of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister.
If the whole sorry mess were a TV comedy series or a series of skits performed on a TV comedy sketch show, audiences simply would not believe what they were watching. Fact is truly stranger than fiction.
Throw in the Skripal affair and you have the likes of a Monty Python episode .LOL
From living in Brazil and watching the political situation, and from observing closely the US and the UK, I conclude that we have only assumed that we have a democracy, but that democracy is something yet to be achieved. Once one realises this, you can stop trying to make something work, an idea, that is something that is in the future.
As Summitflyer suggests, what we are seeing is a tragi-comedy. It is tragic because people’s lives are affected and because people take it seriously, but a quasi-comedy because there is the urge to celebrate and laugh, or even ridicule.
We increasingly see that our leaders in power are ridiculous. They have a role of handling matters of State on behalf of The Power That Shall Not Be Mentioned that runs things for the time being. Our role is to see these patterns.
I observe from Australia. It really is very simple:
Democracy kaputt.
We had peak democracy ….. don’t know.
New election, another referendum, different dude as PM – and that will make the issues go away? You may laugh, but the laughter on the European continent is louder.
Democracy is founded on the idea that a. the majority will make the right decision and b. those who would have liked a different decision put up with what the majority wanted and remain peaceful until next time.
Democracy kaputt.
^^ this. a change of government won’t make the slightest difference to the shit show we are witnessing, but did it ever? probably make things infinitely worse, in fact. corbyn bumped off by SIS after winning GE by landslide; labour party expelling 75% of its members for fake antisemitism. boris johnson as tory leader. mmm. can’t wait..
Do we believe her?
I, for one, do not. With her track record of crossing her own red lines this lady is suspect in her motives and actions. Brexit is Brexit and red white and blue Brexit were vacuous statements specifically designed to obfuscate and mis-lead the British public. This Prime Minister is unable to think on her feet, which is a prime requisite for the position. Her answer to being asked what was the worst thing she had ever done replied ‘running through a farmer’s wheat field’. On the surface, it was a totally inane question but she was unable to deflect it with any conviction. She might have been better borrowing a Johnny Cash lyric ‘I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die!’. The EU negotiators certainly do not trust her, after all she assured them, and us, we would leave on March 29th. Where is the help for… Read more »