96

The 2001 Anthrax Deception

An Overview of the Book by Graeme MacQueen

Antony C. Black

FILE – U.S. Secertary of State Colin Powel holds up a vial that he said could contain anthrax during a meeting of the United Nations Security Council at the United Nations headquarters on Wednesday, Feb. 5, 2003. (AP Photo/Elise Amendola, File)

If the notion that, ‘truth always lies 180 degrees opposite to the direction pointed by the corporate media’ is not yet a modern maxim, it should be. A useful corollary might be added to the effect that, ‘the depth to which an event is consigned to the establishment memory hole is inversely related to its actual significance’.

Such an event is the occasion of the October, 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, for coming close upon the heels of those of 9/11, the anthrax attacks of early October seemed to stamp with the imprimatur of destiny itself the coming of a new age, a new ‘clash of civilizations’, and, of course, a new conflictual modality, ‘The Global War on Terror’. It is ironic then that barely a decade later the entire episode should be so completely forgotten as almost never to have happened.

So what did happen?

The bald facts – as detailed by author Graeme MacQueen – are these:

From early October until November 20, some twenty-two people became infected by anthrax spores contained in letters sent through the US public mail system. Of these five died. A number of letters containing the spores were sent to several major news organizations and two were sent to the offices of US Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy.

The US Administration immediately laid blame for the attacks at the door of Al Qaeda – and, significantly, Iraq, even though the latter had in no way been implicated in the 9/11 attacks themselves.

A number of crude ‘Islamic’ propaganda letters also accompanied some of the anthrax mailings. As it turned out, these proved so crude as to convince virtually no one, but rather as to suggest blatant fraud. Even more problematic was that the ordained authorities chose early on to push the notion that the spores had physical characteristics whose provenance could only be that of Iraq.

This tactic was quickly seen to backfire for when thoroughly analyzed the strain of anthrax used was found, egads!, to have come from US government labs. Shocking.

Needless to say, the Al Qaeda / Iraq motif was quietly dropped as was the heavy curtain of amnesia over the entire wayward affair. In 2010, just by way of tying up loose ends, a government anthrax vaccine researcher, one Dr. Bruce Ivins, was, after conveniently committing suicide, judged in absentia as the ‘lone wolf’ culprit. Case closed.

Well not quite.

In 2008, following Ivins’ death and under pressure from Congress, the FBI reluctantly asked the National Academy of Sciences to review its scientific methodology in the case.

The NSA, after hurdling multiple bureaucratic and technical obstacles placed in its way by the FBI, concluded (in 2011) that, far from being airtight, the case against Ivins was, in fact, built on a foundation of sand.

Thus, not only was Ivins’ alleged ‘deception’ of authorities strongly called into question, but so was the actual physical link between Ivins’ research and the anthrax spores used in the mailings. The NSA findings received reinforcement that same year from an unexpected source.

The relatives of Robert Stevens – the first fatality and the first victim to be identified as suffering from anthrax, (Oct. 5) – in suing the US government for liability in the death of their loved one, incurred a raucous split between the government’s civil and criminal divisions.

The subsequent court battle witnessed the civil branch attacking the results of the FBI and concluding, as per the NSA report, that there was no substantive link between Ivins and the anthrax mailings.

For the government narrative, things got uglier still. In 2011 and 2012 two articles appeared in the Journal of Bioterrorism and Biodefense. The lead author of the two papers, Martin Hugh-Jones, was listed by the FBI itself as a “renowned anthrax expert”.

The papers argued that the spores used in the 2001 anthrax attacks were not only highly weaponized, but employed a very specialized ‘silicone coating with a tin catalyst’. As the authors concluded,

Potential procedures that might be applicable for silicone coating of spores, barely touched on here, are complex, highly esoteric processes that could not possibly have been carried out by a single individual”.

‘Highly esoteric processes that could not possibly have been carried out by a single individual’.

So if not by Ivins, then by who?

The authors of the papers answered this question too.

“The known clues point to Dugway [Proving Grounds in Utah] or Battelle [Memorial Institute in Ohio], not USAMIIRD as the site where the attack spores were prepared. Crucial evidence that would prove or disprove these points either has not been pursued or has not been released by the FBI”.

In short, all the evidence relating to the 2001 anthrax letters points, not just to a domestic false flag attack – that much is conceded – but to a collective conspiracy at the highest levels of the US state apparatus.

But then why? What was all this in aid of?

As mentioned earlier, the context of the 2001 anthrax attacks involved not just the assaults on the Trade Towers themselves, but the whole edifice of the subsequent ‘global war on terror’ that was so rapidly prosecuted by the Bush Administration.

Thus, within just one day of 9/11, i.e. on Sept. 12, Attorney General Ashcroft put forward a ‘use of force’ proposal that leant the President unprecedented wartime powers.

Within a week the Patriot Act was on the table and this was followed in short order by proposals for military tribunals and (on Oct. 4) bulk surveillance powers for the NSA. On October 7th, the US invaded Afghanistan.

As MacQueen shows, the entire ideological thrust of the US executive during this time was to phrase the attacks as acts of war rather than as terrorist incidents, this so as to replace the ‘legal system with the war system’.

And so, within a matter of mere weeks following 9/11, the nation witnessed a naked seizure of power by the Executive Branch such as had not been experienced during its entire two hundred plus years of existence.

But all was not entirely clear sailing for the Bush neo-cons.

The Patriot Act, for one, was, in late September and early October, meeting tepid, if nevertheless substantive, resistance from the Democrat-controlled Senate. And who by chance were the two people most implicated in this resistance? You guessed it, Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy.

Thus, Daschle as Senate Majority Leader and Leahy as Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee were the two key figures controlling passage of the legislation and who, though largely in obeisance to the Administration’s will, were yet a tad taken aback by the sheer scope and breadth of the powers being ceded by the proposed Act.

Moreover, they protested the unseemly haste with which the Administration was attempting to ram through the legislation. Following reception of the anthrax-laced letters on Oct. 15th, however, their opposition, such as it was, collapsed. The Patriot Act was then quickly signed into effect on Oct. 26.

Though jettisoned of necessity by the revelation of US government affiliation, the overweening importance of the Al Qaeda / Iraq anthrax narrative to the Bush Administration’s whole ‘war on terror’ meme cropped up again, two years later, when Colin Powell made his infamous bogus presentation to the United Nations in the lead up to the assault on Iraq.

Holding up a vial of simulated anthrax Powell inveighed not just against Iraq’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’ in general, but also against Iraq’s ‘aerial dispersion’ techniques. That it was all a load of total manure matters less for our concerns here than does the significance that the Bush Administration still placed, and had long placed, on the anthrax narrative – and on the idea of ‘aerial dispersion’.

Both of these, it turns out, have a fascinating connection to the alleged perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks themselves.

It is first pertinent to note, however, that the date of confirmation of the first anthrax attack, i.e. against Robert Stevens, was Oct. 3rd. Prior to this date no one knew – or was supposed to know – that the nation was, once again, ‘under attack’. Strange to tell, then, that the press was, all through September, chock-a-block full of reports and analyses of possible anthrax attacks.

The New York Times alone, between Sept. 12 and Oct. 3, fielded some 76 articles related to biological and chemical weapons attacks, of which 27 of these were specifically to do with anthrax.

Furthermore, on Sept. 22, the FAA, responding to special information (that we will visit in a moment) pointing to the possibility of a mass aerial anthrax assault, grounded all of the nation’s 4000 or so crop-dusting planes. Finally, it eventually came out that the White House staff had been placed on the anthrax antibiotic, Ciprofloaxcin, on the very day of Sept. 11.

Now one might at first suppose that all this seeming foreknowledge was merely prudent calculation on the part of both government and media. In short, perhaps this was not ‘foreknowledge’ but rather ‘foresight’. But this supposition is misleading. There was, as such, no obvious, no compelling reason to think that a follow-up terrorist plot by the likes of ‘Al Qaeda’ would come in the form of a biological attack. After all, purely conventional means (i.e. planes, bombs, etc.) offered the far simpler, the far greater threat.

And here we need take note, not only of the extreme technical difficulties in the weaponizing of anthrax, but of the overwhelmingly disproportionate emphasis on the threat of it throughout the period in question.

Nor can one credit the boys in blue – or the media – with some flashy detective intuition, for the plain fact of the matter is that they got it completely wrong, i.e. the provenance of the anthrax attacks were neither Al Qaeda nor Iraq – but US government-military labs!

Still, the FAA did seem to have been on to something when they grounded the nations’ crop-dusting fleet, and that ‘something’ turned out to be the startling revelation that a number (at least a dozen) of the alleged 9/11 hijackers had, over the previous year, been busying themselves attempting to procure crop-dusting planes. And not just procuring, but of making a big, very public splash of it to boot.

On Sept. 24, 2001, for instance, Ashcroft testified before Congress relating how Mohamed Atta, the supposed ringleader of the hijackers, “had been compiling information about crop-dusting before the 9/11 attacks.”

The following day it was revealed that Atta had, in early May, walked into US Department of Agriculture office in Florida and inquired about getting a loan to buy a crop-dusting plane adding that he was looking to modify the plane to carry a large additional chemical tank. After being turned down for the $650,000 loan he sought, Atta apparently then threatened to cut the throat of the loan officer and simply take the money from the safe. He made further blatant allusions to ‘Al Qaeda’ and ‘Osama Bin Laden’ and so on throughout the interview.

Apart from the fact that it is hard to reconcile this behaviour – and a large corpus of similar material relating to the behaviour of the 9/11 hijackers – with a group of men planning an ultra-secret mission of terror, it is also more than curious that the hijackers of 9/11 would be bothering to associate themselves with (presumably) spreading anthrax when it was clear, even according to the government’s own narrative, that ‘Al Qaeda’ was hardly likely to harbour the technical capability for weaponizing the bacteria.

This is, of course, where the link with Iraq insinuates itself, i.e. a state actor is required to provide the weaponized material.

The equation then becomes simple: The anthrax narrative equals the pretext for the invasion of Iraq. Here we may see Powell’s seemingly anomalous waving of the ‘anthrax card’ before the UN, in a new light, i.e. as part of an erstwhile, deeply entrenched (if, by then, completely discredited) script to attack Iraq.

A question now begs to be asked: Is there yet any connection between the hijackers – and the anthrax letters themselves?

The answer is yes, and the link between them is Robert Stevens, i.e. the very first person to be identified as having contracted anthrax (on Oct. 3; he died Oct. 5). Stevens worked as a photo-editor for a tabloid called The Sun in Baca Raton, Florida.

As it transpires, Gloria Irish, the wife of the head of the Sun, just happened to be the real estate agent not only for Stevens himself, but for two of the hijackers, Marwan al-Shehhi and Hamza al-Ghamdi. Two other hijackers moved in with al-Shehhi and al-Ghamdi and, in all, investigators later connected nine of the nineteen hijackers to the apartments located by Mrs. Irish.

But remember, the anthrax attacks did not actually involve Al Qaeda or the hijackers. They originated as a purely domestic conspiracy. Could then a ‘lone wolf’ agent like Bruce Ivins perhaps have deliberately targeted Stevens knowing his physical proximity to the hijackers?

No. The information linking Stevens and the hijackers came out only after Steven’s death.

That leaves either the pure coincidence theory, i.e. that, out of some 285 million people then living in the United States, a number of the hijackers just happened to be connected with the first anthrax victim, or that the entire anthrax narrative – including the reports of hijackers seeking crop-dusting planes etc – was meant to be linked with 9/11, this as a pretext to implicate Iraq in the 9/11 attacks themselves.

Moreover, as Graham MacQueen aptly notes, it matters not “whether actual hijackers were involved in sending out letters laden with anthrax spores: the question is whether fictions, verbal or enacted, were intentionally created to make this narrative seem credible. The Hijackers did not have anthrax, but the script portrayed them as likely to have it.”

The association between the alleged hijackers and the anthrax letters do not, of course, exhaust the many and profound connections linking the hijackers to a false-flag scenario.

There are, for instance, the known connections of a number of the hijackers to Western intelligence services. Of especial interest is the possible relation between the hijackers and Israeli intelligence agents operating in the US at the time. Still, as discussion of these fascinating threads would lead us far astray, let us conclude this exhibit with a final bizarro-world flourish known as ‘Dark Winter’.

Less than three months before the 9/11 attacks a bioterrorism exercise called ‘Dark Winter’ was held at Andrews Air Force Base. Whilst the holding of such exercises are not in themselves unusual, the peculiar parallels between this simulation and the subsequent anthrax attacks are yet worth noting.

Thus, like the anthrax attacks themselves ‘Dark Winter’ involved: contaminated letters being sent to the mainstream media; letters being sent to high state officials; preparations for the drastic restriction of civil liberties; and finally, an emphasis on a ‘double perpetrator’ narrative, even spelling out “Iraq” as the state sponsor in collusion with “terrorist groups in Afghanistan”. Also intriguing are the personnel who were involved in the exercise. Of these, three stand out: Judith Miller, James Woolsey, and Jerome Hauer.

Miller reprised for the simulation her real-world role as reporter for the New York Times; a role she leant zealously towards the framing of Iraq in the lead up to invasion. Also worthy of note is the bio-weapons book she co-authored, entitled ‘Germs’, which was released on Oct. 2/01, just in time to clean up on the anthrax scare and soar up the best-seller list.

Woolsey, reprising his former real-world role as CIA director (under Clinton), was also an erstwhile and virulent proponent of invading Iraq. Hauer played the role of FEMA director in Dark Winter.

In real life, Hauer was both a bioterrorism expert and had been, up until early 2000, the director of the Office of Emergency Management (OEM) for New York City. The OEM had been located on the 23rd floor of the World Trade Center #7. According to a July 27, 1999 New York Times article, Hauer’s alternate expertise – and apparent obsession – was building collapse.

In following the chain of evidence adumbrated so far we are led inexorably to a startling conclusion. To wit, far from being just another obscure footnote in history, the 2001 anthrax attacks appear, not just as a domestic conspiracy originating within the highest levels of the US state apparatus, but as a pointer to the truth of that ‘other’ potential – probable – false flag, i.e. 9/11 itself.

As MacQueen summarizes the matter:

Since the Hijackers of 9/11 fame were connected to the anthrax attacks, and since the anthrax attacks manifestly had to be planned and carried out by deep insiders in the US, there is no avoiding the implication that the 9/11 attacks were also carried out by insiders. There is, as it happens, a large body of evidence which supports this thesis.”

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is where, in the lawyering biz they say with steely finality: ‘I rest my case’.

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bill
bill
Jul 26, 2019 2:55 PM

devastating!

Clay_Bottle
Clay_Bottle
Jul 23, 2019 1:00 PM

Somewhere, someone is reading this analysis and thinking: “Well done! So close…”

It must be satisfying, knowing your evil genius was not entirely forgotten.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 24, 2019 12:54 AM
Reply to  Clay_Bottle

So you think they really killed and injured the stated people with anthrax, Clay?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 23, 2019 6:20 AM

I make this comment in the hope that it may be enlightening to those who are hostile to what I say. Until I woke up to 9/11 in 2014, I was only vaguely aware of Occam’s Razor but I instinctively gravitated towards this magical tool in a bid to persuade others of the incontrovertibility of my claims instead of going around and around in argument with them. It totally didn’t work and no one I’m aware of other than myself sees the slightest significance in the fact that I have done 10-point exercises where I favour one hypothesis over the opposing hypothesis that no one has poked any credible holes in, nor in the fact that no one has come up with equivalent exercises with the favouring reversed. So be it. People often accuse me of using Occam’s Razor incorrectly when it is they, in fact, who are not using… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 24, 2019 12:52 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

What I didn’t make clear is that when I speak of propaganda targeted at truthers, the propaganda works on the assumption that the truthers know it was “inside” already and that they’re persuading them of other aspects of the story, eg, that people really died when they faked it or other things. They use truther-targeted propaganda to spin a huge story with all sorts of red-herrings to confuse and as a form of distraction from the the basics which are all that is required to prove the case. For JFK all you need are the ballistics and the number of bullets.

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 22, 2019 12:37 PM

Very interesting Ryan Dawson interview here, so much info. He charts the rise of the Neocons, from inception to the current day. Ryan is the producer of War By Deception, arguably the most important documentary on YouTube. I posted it at the bottom of the page. Also very interesting is the Neocon Richard Perle’s “Clean Break” paper, which he discusses, as well as the anthrax attacks and 9/11. The interviewer does a great job too. A must watch for sure

NEOCONS – Who are they? – Ryan Dawson

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 22, 2019 12:46 PM
Reply to  Mucho

The “A Clean Break” paper is the blueprint for all the wars we have seen in the Middle East since 9/11, penned by Richard Perle, the spawn of Satan Neocon who has the blood of millions on his filthy hands. This paper was prepared for Netanyahu, to tell him how the US could fight all these wars for Israel. You cannot make this shit up. Off the scale level of importance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the “Clean Break” report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to solving Israel’s security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on “Western values.” It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy including the removal… Read more »

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 22, 2019 12:49 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Ryan’s website – ANC Report (Anti NeoCons Report)
https://www.ancreport.com/

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 22, 2019 12:51 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Why has this linked to war by deception? I posted a link to this

NEOCONS – Who are they? – Ryan Dawson

Maggie
Maggie
Jul 22, 2019 6:35 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Ryan is a very courageous young man, who has been vilified and hounded for telling the truth, plus ‘they’ have removed all his information numerous times… so you KNOW HE IS ON TO SOMETHING!!!

I don’t think he can be accessed any more on u tube, but he can here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3ft1j8/ryan_dawson_creator_of_war_by_deception_ask_me/

Maggie
Maggie
Jul 22, 2019 6:49 PM
Reply to  Mucho
Monobazeus
Monobazeus
Jul 20, 2019 11:21 PM
Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 20, 2019 8:17 PM

The US Neocon regime has got to be amongst the most utterly repugnant ones in the past 2 centuries.

That Britain is mow trying to exit a quite civilised Europe and instead become 100% aligned with this disgraceful regime, acting as its global Police Poodle, is shocking to say the least. You Marxists need to wake up about what Brexit REALLY means.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 21, 2019 3:50 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

“You Marxists need to wake up about what Brexit REALLY means.” Your understanding of “Marxist” reasons for wanting to leave the EU is sketchy, to say the least. Many Marxists do think that Britain should leave the EU because it is an irremediably (Google “acquis” and read on from there) post-fascist, proto-neocon constuct that is inherently inimical to the real interests of the working class, whether they are Marxists or not. You may also care to look up the very significant class (or socio-political “layer”) differences between socialist “internationalism” (what many socialists believe the EU should espouse–and have espoused as its founding cornerstone) and capitalist “globalization” (what it currently–and unalterably, see “acquis”–is espousing). Should you “REALLY” (to quote you) wish to educate yourself in these matters (when soundbite thinking is so much easier), YouTube still has videos of Tony Benn, a British Labour politician (socialist as distinct from Tony Blair’s… Read more »

mark
mark
Jul 20, 2019 7:49 PM

Britain sold Anthrax to Saddam Hussein.
If Porton Down had pulled its finger out, they could have sold him some Novichok as well.

ttshasta
ttshasta
Jul 20, 2019 5:44 PM

In 7 years the FBI never charged Ivans, he never confessed, and handwriting did not match.
The FBI head agent in charge of the anthrax investigation – Richard Lambert – has filed a federal whistleblower lawsuit calling the entire FBI investigation bullsh!t: (2014/15)
https://washingtonsblog.com/2015/04/head-fbis-anthrax-investigation-calls-b-s.html

In 2010 The Wall St Journal reported that the anthrax must have been siliconized by a crack team in a lab, not a lone wolf in a garage. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704541004575011421223515284

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 12:26 PM
Reply to  ttshasta

It’s all a hoax. Who was Ivins really if anyone? I know his name is on scientific papers – that’s really the only thing close to reality of him that we can see … and, of course, that could be sham too. It’s all a big bullshit hoax and all these lawsuits and all the rest of it are just completely sham. They string us along with loads and loads of nonsense.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/anthrax-attacks-after-911.html

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 22, 2019 12:13 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

fuck off flaxgirl

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 1:59 AM
Reply to  Mucho

I wonder what angers you about me, Mucho. I’m just presenting what I believe with reason and logic. To me, what I say, regardless of the evidence simply makes so much sense. This is what I don’t understand. It makes perfect sense. We call what they do a psyop but we don’t actually believe they commit psyops – we believe they do the most important aspect of an alleged psyop for real – killing people – in which case it’s no longer a psyop – nothing psyoppy about it. It’s a complete failure. The power elite would be so utterly ashamed of doing such a crap job – killing people for real in their alleged “psyops”. You have to have respect for your oppressor, Mucho. You need to respect their abilities. If you don’t do that you’re totally screwed. Faking an anthrax attack is the absolute easiest thing in the… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 2:39 AM
Reply to  Mucho

Mucho, the most important part of the PSYOP is making us believe they killed people. That’s the most important part.

milosevic
milosevic
Jul 30, 2019 8:09 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Of course, the easiest way of making it appear that people have died is to actually kill them, which would certainly occur to the planners of the PSYOP.

Occam’s Razor, etc.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 31, 2019 1:31 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Occam’s Razor is not based on probability or speculation but on evidence. Evidence, milosevic, evidence! Why do people not get that evidence is the key ingredient in making judgements. There are various definitions of evidence but the one I choose is: What hypothesis does the evidence fit with the fewest assumptions and questions raised. The abundant evidence for fakery of death and injury is here: https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html They actually make it obvious. That’s their rule – they need to make it obvious. No one, so far, including you has come up with a single piece of evidence that supports real death and injury. I rest my case. Moreover: — the resulting people left without their loved ones are not an easy proposition to deal with — they love fooling us and are extremely good at it and, in fact, they didn’t really have to go to such extreme lengths to fool… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 20, 2019 3:01 PM

The post-9/11 anthrax attacks were completely staged in terms of death and injury just as were the semi-recognised/recognised false flags: 9/11 1980 Bologna station bombing Pearl Harbour They pushed out a reasonable amount of truther-targeted propaganda on the anthrax attacks while truther-targeted propaganda on 9/11 is beyond enormous. I believe that the phenomenon of false flag is an historical myth perpetuated by the power elite to try to make them seem more intimidating and powerful – they can kill their own people and get away with it. It’s also much more taboo to accuse them of the very serious crime of false flag (killing the people) than false-flag hoax (pretending to kill people) so it all just stays in a permanent state of hush-hushness. The court case supposedly happening now for 9/11 is a complete sham just as was the 9/11 Commission and just as the Sandy Hook court cases… Read more »

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 20, 2019 4:56 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Dying is easy.
It’s Living that is hard.
Sgt Rock used to say.

Ben Trovata
Ben Trovata
Jul 20, 2019 7:11 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

“Dying is easy–comedy is hard–[ a chestnut ]”

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 1:34 AM
Reply to  DunGroanin

I’m not so sure, DunGroanin. Lots of people are desperately unhappy and it’s easy to see why they might kill themselves and, in fact, they think about it all the time but then they don’t. Though, of course, many do too … and, tragically, some whose lives actually seem really quite wonderful in so many ways.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 20, 2019 8:24 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Flaxgirl giving conspiracy theorists a bad name once again with here utterly insane input.

People REALLY died in Bologna.
People REALLY died in NY on 911.
People REALLY died of anthrax post 911.

You are a deluded nutter, try actually talking to those impacted, and those that witnessed these events before you spout more utter shite…but of course you will not, because you are possibly paid to create ridicule around conspiracy theorists.

And no, the Earth is not flat. And yes, 50 years ago today humans did land on the moon.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 12:58 AM
Reply to  Editor

And with logic, reason and evidence – if only those arguing with me would take a look at it.

Ken
Ken
Jul 20, 2019 10:49 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

You might want to watch “American Moon” by Massimo Mazzucco before fully committing to the legitimacy of the moon landings.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 1:08 AM
Reply to  Ken

What a coincidence, Ken. I just looked up his video last night to read the comments. I firmly believe that astronauts went to the moon but I just thought I’d look at what people said about his video. There was only one negative comment but I inferred from the comments that he didn’t make a convincing case against the moon landings and that wasn’t necessarily his intention – just to raise a lot of questions. My identical twin and I disagree (we argue to the point of insanity) on the moon landings. I’ve profiled her (and include a couple of friends in this profile too) as someone who by default does not believe anything from the authorities. The other day the thought occurred to me that Bill Kaysing, a technical writer, and the first person to allege the moon landings were a hoax, may have been a CIA plant, hired… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 1:10 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Just to add:
Ironically, the people who fit the disbelieve-everything profile are, in fact, just as easily brainwashed, if not moreso, than the rest of the population whom they refer to as “sheeple” and they actually interfere with the exposure of truth. They tar all of us, purely evidence-based thinkers and disbelievers alike with the Boy Who Cried Wolf brush. They are a laughing stock because they promote the moon hoax conspiracy theory and then when they’re right about 9/11 being an inside conspiracy their ability and that of the evidence-based thinkers to get the truth out is severely compromised. Wrong about moon landings, wrong about 9/11!

Ken
Ken
Jul 21, 2019 3:01 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

flaxgirl, I think watching “American Moon” is more instructive than reading comments about it. IMO, denying there were any deaths on 9/11 is in “too deep.” I am well aware of the disbelieve-everything-from-the-authorities syndrome; it happened to my brother after I guided him into looking at and discovering the obvious truth of 9/11. He believes in flat Earth now. BTW, I’m still waiting for a manned mission beyond low Earth orbit, purportedly for the first time since 1972, but I won’t hold my breath.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 4:06 AM
Reply to  Ken

I’m sure it is worth watching the DVD Ken and I should get round to it. In the case of 9/11 I ask you and any reader of this comment to really appreciate the term psychological operation. 9/11, anthrax attacks and Bologna and many, many other events were psyops. No one ever says semi-psyop, they never SAY semi-psyop but that is how they perceive the event. So are psyops psyops or are they some other breed of event? Are the power elite so incompetent that they cannot persuade us that people died unless they kill them? Their billions of dollars on profiling us etc not sufficient to fake death and injury and persuade us they killed them for real. They persuaded us of the utterly ludicrous 19 terrorists armed with boxcutters story except for the part about killing 3,000 and injuring 6,000. They weren’t up to that level of persuasion… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 1:43 AM
Reply to  Ken

Just to say while it makes it sound very suspicious that there has been no manned mission beyond low Earth orbit why would there be any manned mission unless they go somewhere specific? The closest place is the moon, so it’s simply a matter of never going to the moon again. I think the emphasis on beyond low-earth orbit is a bit misleading.

Ken
Ken
Jul 22, 2019 7:11 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Like I said, I’m still waiting. VP of the USA, Mike Pence, has said we’ll be going back by 2024 as part of making the Moon a springboard for a presumably soon to follow manned mission to Mars, and that the first woman and man next there will be from the USA. It will be interesting to see how that unfolds. Watch “American Moon.”

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 7:33 AM
Reply to  Ken

I will but I daren’t show it to my sister. OMG! 🙂 These are the most convincing arguments I have for the landings being real. * All the footage fits the very different lunar conditions as far as I can tell. The moon has a black sky in daytime and we see very, very bright light reflected off the moon’s surface with no signs of a light source other than the sun (at least in a number of visuals) and even if there are, in some images, seeming evidence of another light source we have to wonder how they achieved that brightness of light. No explanation has been given for how this fakery was achieved. * Photos from unmanned missions from Russia, China, India and Japan match the images we were shown of the moon. * All the specifications of the various components involved are very well documented including the… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 1:19 PM
Reply to  Ken

Almost half-way through Ken. In many ways Mazzucco makes a convincing case and he does raise some very puzzling questions – especially the one about the too short time between Houston to moon exchanges, I must say, but then some of his criticisms are silly. * When he talks about the LM he only talks about the thermo-shield and de-emphasizes that it is only a covering without reference to the pressure vehicle inside. *While the behaviour of the dust seems puzzling it also does not seem consistent with the way dust behaves on earth either – a puzzle either way – which makes you tend to favour lunar. And I don’t agree that the dust looks like mud on the rover. * In this Vintage Space video, an earth rocket, Titan II, is shown launching without a visible flame. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsLtAUb1-Lw * When he talks about “debunkers” the one he most… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 23, 2019 11:23 AM
Reply to  Ken

OK, so I’ve watched it though skipped a bit through the last 90 minutes because the narrator’s voice was annoying and also the film annoyed me because it wasn’t properly researched. You don’t just interview a bunch of fashion photographers who know nothing about the moon. Mazzucco is very selective in his sources. Really, what his film ends up being is simply bullshit. If you scroll down and look at JayUtah’s comments, it’s clear he knows waaay more about lunar photography than any of the people in this film. He mentions several terms not referenced in the film at all (unless I missed them). http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/2370/apollo-11-light-fall-off With just some simple googling you can get answers to some of the alleged anomalies he points out. Not saying there aren’t puzzling anomalies but everything said against real moon landings always strikes me as simply in the “anomaly” category. There just is no sense… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 1:22 AM
Reply to  Ken

You know what really, really pisses me off? They have tainted the moon landings with fake stories. That really pisses me off. I was looking forward to reading some of the 50th anniversary articles and the first one I turned to in the SMH is a fake story about an alleged moon dust experiment that was the brainchild of an Australian scientist, Brian O’Brien.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/sydney-moon-dust-experiment-on-board-apollo-11-20190715-p527ho.html

Interestingly, I can see this fake story goes back to at least 2009 where it is reported in Science Alert. https://www.sciencealert.com/apollo-moon-dust-from-1966-to-2009

In Science Alert we are told that:

The measurements were made by the matchbox-sized Dust Detector Experiments (DDEs) I invented before dinner on National Airlines Flight 58, Los Angeles to Houston, on 12 January 1966

The six measurements provide absorptivity and emissivity values that dictate thermal controls as lunar temperature varies from minus 1700C to 1200C. [This is nothing like the lunar temperature range]

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 12:58 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

I wonder why you think I make these seemingly outrageous claims. I wonder what you think goes through my mind without, seemingly, any evidence to make these claims. When you say people REALLY died in Bologna what is your evidence? I have pages showing the evidence for people not dying in these events. Are you willing to read what I say? I cannot post it all in a comment. https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/other-events.html If you’re not willing to read my case for why these events are complete psyops rather than semi-psyops (a contradiction in terms in my book) then you have no argument. Putting REALLY in capital letters does not make an argument. The thing is Frank Speaker not only did they not kill people they TOLD us they didn’t kill people by making their “evidence”, if you will, for killing so utterly ludicrous and unconvincing … as they do for all their… Read more »

George
George
Jul 21, 2019 9:19 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

These arguments about whether people really died on 9/11 or whatever seem to me to be the same as the arguments about whether the twin towers could have collapsed without controlled demolition – which leads on to stuff about the melting point of steel etc. etc. These arguments can go on from now till the end of time with no outcome – which, seems to me to be very much intended i.e. get everyone squabbling over stuff that can never be decided. Considering that our overlords obviously don’t give a shit about loss of life, it is certainly conceivable that people DID in fact die on 9/11. (Certainly at least as conceivable to the proposition that people actually went to the moon!) The real issue about e.g. 9/11 is that it was a creation of the Western deep state. Talk of which parts of it “really did happen” are irrelevant… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 1:37 PM
Reply to  George

I beg to differ, George. Firstly, it’s abundantly clear that all three buildings at the WTC came down from controlled demolition. There is no argument about what the buildings came down from in terms of whether it was CD or fire – only die-hard believers of the official story argue fire. There is no possible way of confusing CD and collapse by fire. None at all and high rise steel frame buildings do not come down by fire. It’s very simple and straightforward. Guess what though? I knew the Judy Wood DEW argument was bullshit in any case but I recently discovered (via Steve De’ak) that they stuffed the buildings full of dust for a number of reasons: Masked the empty towers (Steve says the buildings were gutted before demolition – obviously a while before) Camouflaged the means of demolition Made the demolitions more impressive Forced away any curious onlookers… Read more »

George
George
Jul 21, 2019 7:18 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

“Whether they give a shit or not doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on whether people lost their lives or not.”

But you talk about “the lie that people died and were injured” – thus implying that no-one died and no-one was injured. Thus it seems that whoever is behind this MUST give a shit – in that they must have ensured that no-one would die. I mean – it’s very difficult to carry out this attack without injuring anyone.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 12:36 AM
Reply to  George

Oh yes, they give a shit about not injuring anyone. I didn’t express myself correctly. What I meant was that even if they didn’t give a shit about the people personally (as they don’t give a shit about their soldiers who die in their self-generated wars and the hundreds of thousands of people they kill in other countries), it doesn’t mean they would have killed and injured them. As far as doing the operation, yes they really didn’t want to kill them. But they had reasons not to kill them other than lack of concern about killing them. It’s simply the fact that it was a highly-planned psychological operation involving thousands of people and by definition would not have been part of the modus operandi. “Carry out this attack,” George. What attack? There were no hijackings, there were no plane crashes. As far as major events of the day go,… Read more »

George
George
Jul 22, 2019 8:08 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

When I said “attacks”, I was referring to the (apparent) fact that two planes crashed into the twin towers. Are you saying that that didn’t happen?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 9:50 AM
Reply to  George

I wonder how much 9/11 research you’ve done, George.

Here is clear evidence that Flights 11 (North tower) and 77 (Pentagon) did not even exist on 9/11 let alone crash.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/aa_flts.htm

I have a 10-point exercise on the four faked plane crashes.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/four-faked-plane-crashes.html

George
George
Jul 22, 2019 5:33 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

So the answer to my question is “Yes”.

Susan O'Neill
Susan O'Neill
Jul 21, 2019 5:35 PM
Reply to  George

Hi George. Many people claim to “know” what they cannot prove. I watched a re-run of the moon landing in 1979 and decided it was s hoax. I have been to every site claiming to have proof of this and skeptical as I am, have never been convinced of their stated “proofs” and therefore still do not “know” the truth of the moon landings. Many conspiracy theorist sites have proven themselves correct, but not too many. It’s the same with man made climate change. Neither side can irrefutably prove their case and although I believe that climate change is indeed man made, I don’t “know” this beyond doubt, it’s just my interpretation of the evidence presented to me. There are those who see a conspiracy in everything they witness, it seems to be a default with them, but that does not mean their beliefs are truly baseless in every instance.… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 1:00 AM
Reply to  Susan O'Neill

I’m a completely evidenced-based thinker, Susan, so when you refer to my “theories” I wonder what theories you refer to and why you don’t believe them. I always make significant points to support my hypotheses and have issued a $5,000 challenge for people to provide points that support the opposing hypotheses. I ensure that when I make a claim there is no evidence that convincingly contradicts my hypothesis which explains why none of these challenges have been responded to despite my engagement with very passionate supporters of the opposing hypotheses. So I’d really like to know which of my “theories” you don’t believe and is it a case of your simply not “believing” them or do you have evidence that you think invalidates them. If you have evidence can you please provide it. If you don’t have evidence then the question arises as to why you don’t believe them. I… Read more »

George
George
Jul 22, 2019 8:23 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I see no reason to get sensitive about the word “theory”. Everyone works with theories. And if, as you claim, your theory has more evidence to support it than all others – at present (which is an important qualification) – then, fine. But to admit you are always working with theories is not a matter of shame. It is the scientific way. I would also put the money away. That seems to me to be a somewhat intimidating unnecessary complexity.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 9:46 AM
Reply to  George

You’re right, George, but, at the same time “theory” in non-scientific use can have a derogatory connotation. Quite honestly, I see nothing theoretical (in the non-scientific sense of the word) about my claims because I provide 10 points that support my claims and invite those who support the opposing hypotheses to provide 10 points to support their beliefs and no one has responded to the challenge by providing even one point let alone 10. I ask the question: If there are only two hypotheses needing consideration, Hypotheses A and B, and 10 points can be found that favour Hypothesis A over Hypothesis B while none can be found to favour Hypothesis B over Hypothesis A, in which possible scenario could Hypothesis B be correct? It’s really a case of everything being “hidden in plain sight” and it is simply mind control that makes people believe the opposing hypotheses. What I… Read more »

George
George
Jul 22, 2019 4:36 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

We may be haggling over little things – but I take “theory” to be inescapable i.e. everyone has a theory. Nobody knows all the details of everything therefore they have this theory to “fill in the gaps” – bearing in mind that everything is open to updates.

I don’t mean to get into a big argument here since I think that we both have the same basic point of view i.e. that 9/11 – as presented by the media – is, to use a non-technical though perfectly accurate term, a steaming pile of bullshit.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 23, 2019 1:52 AM
Reply to  George

OK, George, I see your point. What about some theories are proven and some aren’t. I think mine are proven simply because there is no other theory really. The “other” theory is simply a story that has never remotely had anything to support it. So when there’s really only one theory and there’s no other theory to challenge it then surely it must be correct.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 23, 2019 1:57 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

… and just to say “my” theories were generally other people’s first, of course. I didn’t come up with them. My only original ones – as far as I know – are for Pearl Harbour, Bologna station (one other person also has the same theory but we came up with them separately), anthrax attacks, Chelsea Manning and the truther-targeted propaganda campaign for 9/11 (although in this case many people already recognised “disinformation agents” and other things directed at truthers) – it’s just that I think no one else has identified a clear truther-targeted propaganda campaign. Of course, like the other Bologna station guy other people may also hold my theories I just don’t know about them. I’m sure they do.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 10:43 AM
Reply to  George

The money is simply to show that I put my money where my mouth is so to speak. I think it helps “prove” my case. It makes it more difficult for people to affirm their belief and yet not respond. If they’re so invested in their belief then surely they’d respond to a challenge where they can gain $5,000, especially when they can choose their own judge – and it’s not as if they have anything to lose – they don’t have to give me $5,000. I know that it makes no difference if I offered $1,000,000 (I would do that except that I think it’s not right to offer money you don’t have) or I made Bozo the Clown the judge no one can come up with a single point to support the opposing hypothesis … because that’s not the way the power elite stage their events. They are… Read more »

George
George
Jul 22, 2019 4:31 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

“My beliefs are just not that important to me.”

Umm – I think you’ve definitely lost me there. I presume you don’t mean “beliefs” in the religious sense (although even then – especially then? – they ought to be important to you?) If I take beliefs to be simply what you think happened, then surely that must be important to you?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 23, 2019 1:48 AM
Reply to  George

What I mean is that I can believe something according to the evidence I have at the time and then if more evidence comes along which requires me to do an about-face on my earlier belief I will do it quite happily. Perhaps not instantly but I’m not wedded to my earlier belief. It seems to be me that people go along the truth path a certain distance and then fossilise at a certain point along that path in their beliefs. You cannot afford to be like that when it comes to the power elite because they always have some trick up their sleeve which requires you to turn on a dime. In fact, I’m sure that’s the way they plan their propaganda campaigns. It’s on a timeline and they engineer the point at which most people will solidify in their belief – which is not the point where the… Read more »

Ken
Ken
Jul 21, 2019 1:29 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Google image “Apollo 17 wet flag” and “Apollo 14 lunar module double shadow” for two very damning blows to the official fairy tale. There are so many other photographic anomalies but these two stand out. And “American Moon” does to the Apollo myth what his other film “September 11 The New Pearl Harbor” does to the ludicrous official story of 9/11.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 21, 2019 4:22 AM
Reply to  Ken

Fucking Stanley Kubrick. Sloppy as wet shit.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 21, 2019 4:12 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Why are you continuing to misrepresent William of Ockham and his successors and libel Chelsea Manning?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 8:44 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Can you explain how you believe I do that Robbo?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 22, 2019 2:55 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Easy. Chelsea Manning: you have called her out as a fake. If it came to her attention and she were so inclined (which I suspect she would not be, but), she could launch an action for defamation against you in which she would have to prove that your claim was false (and any establishment civil court would almost certainly count the court martial verdict against her as proof of that, regardless) and that it caused or was likely to cause her financial, reputational or other significant damage (easy) while you would have to prove, as in “prove”, it was true. On your adduction of any “evidence” to date and the inclinations of establishment courts, you aren’t in with a snowball’s (the usual legal formulation is that your case so far is “without merit”). William of Ockham: we have been through this in some depth, here in the O-G, already. Why… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 6:15 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Chelsea hasn’t launched a defamation case against so I really don’t understand what your point is, Robbo. How I use Occam’s Razor is to choose the hypothesis which fits the evidence with the fewest assumptions and questions raised. I have used this perfectly to support my claim that Chelsea is a fake whistleblower. If you can give me any points that say she’s a genuine whistleblower, Robbo, please do. If you don’t have any and you can’t poke any holes in my own points – you do waffle, don’t you, without coming to grips with any actual points for and against – then you have no argument. The thing is just as with the fakery of death and injury it makes perfect sense that Chelsea would be a fake whistleblower. This is the thing. There is nothing outlandish about the idea that she might be a fake whistleblower as we… Read more »

Northern
Northern
Jul 22, 2019 3:54 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I see you posting this faked death and injury stuff all over threads here, and you seem to be at least ostensibly genuine in your desire to uncover the truth, so I will be more charitable to your arguments than I would to other Hasbara clowns here as I’m not so sure that’s what you are. All this being said, you fall into a number of very basic logical traps in your analysis, which you then proceed to use as evidence of its validity! To approximately paraphrase your own words, you were able to draw these conclusions because ‘regardless of evidence’ they ‘make sense’ to you. Try repeating that last sentence again. Regardless of evidence. Never heard of confirmation bias, no? You mention Occam’s Razor, though don’t seem prepared to apply it to your own theories. By any realistic assessment, it would be more difficult to stage the injuries than… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 23, 2019 1:36 AM
Reply to  Northern

Oh dear, Northern, your lack of logic gets an upvote. What a surprise! Northern, you misinterpret me. When I say “regardless of the evidence”, I don’t mean there is no evidence. There is abundant evidence, I just mean it makes sense without looking at the evidence, without considering it. When I use Occam’s Razor I apply it only to the evidence. I do not apply it to speculative theories about what is and what isn’t more difficult and if people would or wouldn’t talk. Speculation is not where I direct my energies. I direct my energies to the evidence that is so abundantly and generously served to us by the power elite. Their munificence in providing clues to their hoaxery and fakery is really quite touching. I’m all gratitude. Of course, they know it will only be appreciated by the so very few of us who are strictly evidence-based, logical… Read more »

Northern
Northern
Jul 23, 2019 12:01 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

You know that reply barely says anything, right? You’ve just gone on a self congratulatory typing spree. You do not understand Occam’s Razor and have simply co-opted in an attempt to make your claims more sound more authoritative. In your words, you only apply it to evidence, not speculative theories. Understand we’re both in the business of disproving the official narrative, so by very nature, you’re working with speculative theories. I had originally written a much longer post dealing with the points you’ve set out but I’ve decided you’re actually one of the more sophisticated troll accounts I’ve come across and to engage with you would be a waste of everyone’s time, or you’re just a genuine poster and you’ve been gazing at your own navel for so long that you’ve forgotten what the rest of the world looks like. Soon as we start talking about alt – right crap… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 23, 2019 12:41 PM
Reply to  Northern

You do not understand Occam’s Razor and have simply co-opted in an attempt to make your claims more sound more authoritative. This is how I apply Occam’s Razor: which hypothesis does the evidence fit best with the fewest assumptions and questions raised. So in relation to staged death and injury I give 10 examples of the evidence fitting “staged” better than “real”, eg, 14 images of injured people where the people don’t look obviously injured, a person emerging from hospital where they tell us he is the last patient suffering from burns but who is not showing signs of burns but of vitiligo and then a video showing empty wheelchairs and stretchers under which is a comment from someone who says they were at the location and whose experience indicated there were no injured needing tending to. Your alleged use of Occam’s Razor is below with my comments: By any… Read more »

Antipropo
Antipropo
Jul 26, 2019 8:07 PM
Reply to  Northern

I’m with you mate, to my disgust I read through all this shit- initially giving some credence to Flaxgirl. I’m now convinced it’s an obfuscation exercise designed to both obscure the truth and distract other people from looking at what the article is about. I’ll go further, I think this thing is an Israeli hasbara plant. Without being able to give references to other posts in other subjects-I’m a 64year old techno nerd with a steam powered phone- I see similarities to an ostensibly erudite refutation of other contributors which simply divert people from the meat of the discussion. By the way Yitzhak or whatever your name is don’t bother responding as far as I’m concerned you are totally busted.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 21, 2019 2:11 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Just in case you’re unaware I do have a page explaining how Chelsea is a fake whistleblower and the video, Collateral Murder, is also fake.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/wikileaks-controlled-opposition.html

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 22, 2019 1:11 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Why does it not surprise me that you seem to have forgotten that I already know you have web pages advancing those theories from the quite extensive conversation we had about them, here on O-G, at the time?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 1:28 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Apologies. So my question is still unanswered. Can you explain how you believe that I misrepresent William of Ockham and his successors (he, in fact, was not the first to come up with the principle) and libel Chelsea Manning?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 22, 2019 1:41 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

“So my question is still unanswered.”

Maybe our timezones, available time and regard for self-justification, as exploited in social media alert systems, etc., differ?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 1:48 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Sorry, Robbo, don’t understand.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 22, 2019 5:33 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Why am I not surprised by so consistently not being surprised by you? Your real name isn’t Eliza Weizenbaum is it? Wouldn’t surprise me.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 22, 2019 7:44 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Why am I not surprised that you spout bullshit because you don’t have any actual argument? Shameful.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 22, 2019 2:53 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Ah, yes, “Collateral Murder”. Well, although I was not involved in its production in any way whatsoever, it happens, by pure coincidence of association, that I have more first-hand evidence of its genesis and development, from an extremely “reliable source”, whom I have no intention of de-anonymizing here, than (almost?) anyone else raising or mentioning the production, either here or in the On-Guardian. On that basis I’d rate your “explanation” is so much phhhht (a.k.a. piss and wind). And no, I won’t disuss it further than that with you. Incidentally, I find no particular credibility problems with many of your propositions but the craven way you try to dress them up with wannabe academic ‘respectability’ (whatever “academic ‘respectability'” is when it’s at home, which isn’t often and which is seldom much even when it is) is truly sad. Or a good sign that AI still has a long way to… Read more »

Brian Steere
Brian Steere
Jul 20, 2019 2:03 PM

The point of the stunt is to induce the act from which there is no return and the next stunt keeps the the last stunt buried.
So the key is indeed to see anything that is designed to induce emotional reaction as a cunning stunt – and this includes when the nature of the stunt is not even trying to be well concealed.

To no longer react as if there is any truth is such stunts is to no longer validate, support or become a doxy, proxy or propagator of someone else’s cunning.

Thanks – but no thanks!

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 20, 2019 1:55 PM

Slam dunk?

Curious timing for this story what with all the worms exploding from the russiagate tin.

Who was the head of the FBI during that time …oh dear.

George
George
Jul 20, 2019 1:21 PM

All of this reminds me of the story of how Marlon Brando’s main incentive to take part in “The Godfather” is that he thought that film showed how the American political system really worked.

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle
Jul 20, 2019 11:13 AM

The authorities will continue to lie in order to pursue economic and geopolitical goals so long as; [a] they are allowed to investigate themselves, and [b] never found guilty of anything. Put another way tell me of an ‘official’ investigation who’s methodology was not utterly flawed from the very outset (9/11 being the most glaring example). Or of any investigation that led to senior figures being convicted? The anthrax episode is just one of many examples that rely on a public mood that is sufficiently apathetic, sufficiently ill-informed to accept that our brave leaders are doing their utmost to save us from some dread external threat, the kind of threat that mere mortals are unlikely to comprehend but one that is almost certain to require brutal military action in a distant land in order to protect ‘our way of life’ (i.e. unsatiable corporate greed). Presumably Iran will be next as… Read more »

Brian Steere
Brian Steere
Jul 20, 2019 2:30 PM
Reply to  Harry Stotle

Everyone will continue to lie in order to pursue their private agenda so long as…. [a]they believe it works [b] they believe that they WANT their private agenda more than self-honesty or integrity of being. As for Gov and Corps – it is simply the way to induce people to support or at least not oppose actions that they are otherwise critical of or in opposition to. What are their goals? These are not generally made open to the public but are the result of insider insiders who even the politicians may be unaware of – because the chain of a carrot and stick society allows incentivised assets to operate key components without any sense of a larger design. If your career, status or survival depend on operating instructions coded in bullshit then you not only acquire the means – but also the means to justify to yourself so as… Read more »

padre
padre
Jul 20, 2019 11:10 AM

Powell looks as if he was contemplating, what will the people say about me, when I’m gone, “good nigga”?

Ken
Ken
Jul 21, 2019 3:46 AM
Reply to  padre

Talk about an Uncle Tom!

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 20, 2019 10:01 AM

Oh look, another glaring, huge omission published by OffG regarding Israel’s cuplability in the 9/11 crime. All the intelligence about the spores coming from Iraq, via Mohammed Atta, came from…..have a guess…… https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/suicide-leader-got-anthrax-from-iraqis-75792 “Berlin – Security experts in Germany are investigating whether hijack suspect Mohammed Atta carried anthrax spores allegedly obtained from Iraqi agents to the United States, a German newspaper reported on Thursday. Germany’s Bild daily cited unnamed Israeli intelligence sources as saying Atta, who is suspected of flying a plane which crashed into the World Trade Centre, received anthrax spores from Iraqi agents during two visits to the Czech Republic. The mass circulation newspaper reported investigators saying they suspected Atta, who had lived in the northern German city of Hamburg, carried the spores to New York where customs officials checked his luggage for drugs and not bacteria. Federal prosecutors leading the investigation into suspects in Germany linked to… Read more »

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 20, 2019 10:32 AM
Reply to  Mucho

Best 9/11 documentary covering Anthrax among many other issues. Big Youtube purge coming on Monday, lots of great content will disappear. DL this while you can
911 and War by Deception

Mucho
Mucho
Jul 20, 2019 12:25 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Sorry for the completely off topic post but there is some good news which needs to be spread like wildfire
George Galloway attempting to unseat #Slimboyfat Tom Watson

crank
crank
Jul 20, 2019 2:01 PM
Reply to  Mucho

It’s getting harder and harder to be ‘off topic’ these days. As Watson sings the Israeli anthem as part of LFI/BoD/JLM/CAA smear campaign, we must consider :
#Iran – Netanyahu
#Venezuela – Elliot Abrams
#Ukraine – Nuland and the Kagans
#the rise of the far right in Europe – Israel
#Trumpism – Adelson , Kushner
#Algorithmic Internet censorship – Sally Lehrman (Trust Project) , Steven Brill (Newsguard)
#Pedophile sex trafficking blackmail ring at the heart of global power – Epstein, Cohn, Lansky, Maxwell….

Speak now or forever hold thy breath (-or have it held for you more likely).

mark
mark
Jul 20, 2019 7:24 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Thanks for that, M. Good news. Imagine if we had had GG in Parliament with everything that’s been going on the past couple of years = Syria, Iran, Venezuela, Skripal, Russiagate, Board of Deputies smears.

harry law
harry law
Jul 20, 2019 9:09 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Muchas gracias Mucho, George has a good chance against the Apartheid state supporter and overall scumbag Watson, I will be campaigning for him.
The Intelligence agencies churn out so much information they could fill a library daily, what matters most is not intelligence but ‘POLICY’ if the intelligence aligns with policy, that is a bonus, as the war against Iraq war proved, in that case intelligence was manufactured to fit policy.

harry law
harry law
Jul 20, 2019 9:43 PM
Reply to  harry law

Just to add to my comment above on Watson, in 2017 Watson beat the Conservative by 7,783 votes, but in 2015 UKIP also ran and received 7,949 votes, this would put Watson in grave danger of losing his seat

crank
crank
Jul 20, 2019 11:52 AM
Reply to  Mucho

You are right Mucho.
The article though does tacitly point the finger at Miller, Hauer, Woolsey and the Mossad ring around the ‘alleged hijackers’, as well as ‘the Bush neocons’.
Miller, Hauer are Jewish American Israel firsters, as are pretty much all the Neoconservatives from their founders to the current batch. The Neocons are all about putting Israel first, and they have been in control of US foreign policy for twenty years, so when OffG ask, “Do the Neocons really want a new war [in Iran], or are they satisfied with sanctions?” are they really acknowledging the provenance of Neoconservatism but choosing to hide behind a convenient label, or do they really think that the Neocons are American patriots, as they (used to) pretend to be?
It is time for people interested in all this to be explicit.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 20, 2019 9:48 AM

I think – in the service of truth-telling – we should always speak of ‘The War Against Terror’, using that precise phrase as a strict rule. The acronym is so appropriate.

George Cornell
George Cornell
Jul 20, 2019 9:34 AM

Pinocchio? Falstaff? Baron v Munchausen? Judith Miller? The NYT?

Calm
Calm
Jul 30, 2019 6:01 PM
Reply to  George Cornell

I need only recall Operation Northwoods ….. in order to think that this may not be a conspitracy theory.
The very fact that somebody could suggest bombing American cities …… to even mention such a scenario with a sense of ease at the highest echelons of the American government, and not be have been taken out back and shot on the spot is enough evidence for me.

George Cornell
George Cornell
Jul 30, 2019 6:41 PM
Reply to  Calm

Yes, indeed. And Kennedy, who had sacked the evil mad dog behind Northwoods, later to turn up as a leader of NATO, gets murdered shortly thereafter.