Comments on: The Myth of the Given https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/ because facts really should be sacred Sun, 29 Apr 2018 18:59:40 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0 By: chasingthesquirrel https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42306 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 18:59:40 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42306 The myth of a given is not that one does not exist. The myth is that it can be anything you want it to be.

]]> By: John https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42305 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:00:21 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42305 In reply to George.

I like your assessment.

]]> By: John https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42304 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 16:57:11 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42304 In reply to candideschmyles.

Right on. The power block in which you write of is just a kakistocracy.

]]> By: jones https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42303 Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:20:32 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42303 Perhaps what Obama meant was Russia produced nothing anyone else desired to want enough to buy. Except her enormous natural resources. To which the West waits ravenously to feed upon were it not for that pesky gatekeeper, Putin.
The “given” that exists with all Western politicians is that mirage of “materialism” that they paint to lure voters from one party to another each election cycle. “In my presidency, you’ll all have Dyson’s, made in [insert country ]. And free this-n-that ! Support freedom !” etc…..
As others have encouraged you to understand, nothing of any meaningful consequence has changed from the O to the T regimes. The system they both defer to is the capitalist global order. Funnily enough, Putin seeks admission into this club, as a “given”, since Russia is a global power. On his terms. That’s where the beef really is.

]]> By: binra https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42302 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 17:17:46 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42302 In reply to candideschmyles.

candideschmyles, What you choose to give time to, is your choice. But you are not the judge of another’s choice – excepting you project your own rules onto them. So feel free to think you rule the world 😉
Your suggestion of replies here as being in terms of Trump, is a curious conclusion. I thought that the main respondents here were looking at the notion of a ‘given’ as a false basis from which to think or act.
The use of time is perhaps a way in to the choices as to whether to waste and be wasted in diversionary conflicts that ‘carrot and stick’ the mind to persist in, or to uncover what lies beneath – that the diversionary mind is made to keep hidden.
No need to wait for anyone else to get it, to open into the true of what is here.

]]> By: candideschmyles https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42301 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 14:10:17 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42301 From Sarte and Buddha, Dostoevsky through to Trump. Such pondering on “givens” is a waste of timè. Trump is a distractor actor for the same power block that has driven the US foreign policy for decades. I know everybody who is salient enough to be reading anything on this site knows every POTUS is a puppet and will have argued that fact at some point. What confounds me is how quickly it is forgotten from issue to issue.

]]> By: Harry Stotle https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42300 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 11:44:27 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42300 What is the take-home message in the OP?
Is ‘given’ meant to signifiy the fact that too many people simply lack political curiosity so take various stories at face value?
I mean it goes without saying various narratives are manipulated in various ways to serve the interests of opposing factions – this came to mind after reading the article

]]> By: Joerg https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42299 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 11:09:10 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42299 This article raises a very valuable point. Very good!
I may add, that this question of “given” had been discussed before and was there discussed – somewhat more focussed – under the following keywords:
1) “The collective denial of the obvious“. On a page that discussed the JFK murder case I found this excellent definition to that: “This “unspeakable,” this hypnotic “collective denial of the obvious,” is sustained by a mass-media whose repeated message is that the truth about such significant events is beyond our grasp, that we will have to drink the waters of uncertainty forever. As for those who don’t, they are relegated to the status of conspiracy nuts“.
2) “A collective unconscious”
To that see: https://books.google.at/books?id=GKWvX0baI_cC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=%E2%80%9Cunspeakable%E2%80%9D+collective&source=bl&ots=gHoMr5J6Of&sig=ohhqbhBORhOd_qZijkaEBZGQ4iQ&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7gZr26czXAhVM1BoKHYf_AZI4ChDoAQgjMAM#v=onepage&q=%E2%80%9Cunspeakable%E2%80%9D%20collective&f=false

]]> By: George https://off-guardian.org/2017/12/16/the-myth-of-the-given/#comment-42298 Sun, 17 Dec 2017 09:34:56 +0000 http://off-guardian.org/?p=42648#comment-42298 Along with the “given” manoeuvre there is the “either/or” manoeuvre which compliments it and which you mentioned i.e. if you don’t subscribe to the first set of givens (Serbs committed genocide, Russians grabbed Crimea etc.) then you MUST subscribe to the second (the world is controlled by Rothschilds, zionists, etc.). There is no other option.

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