Saudi Wahabbism Serves Western Imperialism
by Andre Vltchek
When the Saudi Crown Prince gave an interview to the Washington Post, declaring that it was actually the West that encouraged his country to spread Wahhabism to all corners of the world, there was a long silence in almost all the mass media outlets in the West, but also in countries such as Egypt and Indonesia.
Those who read the statement, expected a determined rebuke from Riyadh. It did not come. The sky did not fall. Lightning did not strike the Prince or the Post.
Clearly, not all that the Crown Prince declared appeared on the pages of the Washington Post, but what actually did, would be enough to bring down entire regimes in such places like Indonesia, Malaysia or Brunei. Or at least it would be enough under ‘normal circumstances’. That is, if the population there was not already hopelessly and thoroughly indoctrinated and programed, and if the rulers in those countries did not subscribe to, or tolerate, the most aggressive, chauvinistic and ritualistic (as opposed to the intellectual or spiritual) form of the religion.
Reading between the lines, the Saudi Prince suggested that it was actually the West which, while fighting an ‘ideological war’ against the Soviet Union and other socialist countries, handpicked Islam and its ultra-orthodox and radical wing – Wahhabism – as an ally in destroying almost all the progressive, anti-imperialist and egalitarian aspirations in the countries with a Muslim majority.
As reported by RT on 28 March 2018:
Speaking to the paper, bin Salman said that Saudi Arabia’s Western allies urged the country to invest in mosques and madrassas overseas during the Cold War, in an effort to prevent encroachment in Muslim countries by the Soviet Union…
The interview with the crown prince was initially held ‘off the record’. However, the Saudi embassy later agreed to let the Washington Post publish specific portions of the meeting.”
Since the beginning of the spread of Wahhabism, one country after another had been falling; ruined by ignorance, fanatical zeal and fear, which have been preventing the people of countries such as post-1965 Indonesia or the post-Western-invasion Iraq, to move back (to the era before Western intervention) and at the same time forward, towards something that used to be so natural to their culture in not such a distant past – towards socialism or at least tolerant secularism.
*
In reality, Wahhabism does not have much to do with Islam. Or more precisely, it intercepts and derails the natural development of Islam, of its strife for an egalitarian arrangement of the world, and for socialism.
The Brits were behind the birth of the movement; the Brits and one of the most radical, fundamentalist and regressive preachers of all times Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab
The essence of the Wahabi/British alliance and dogma was and still is, extremely simple:
Religious leaders would force the people into terrible, irrational fear and consequent submission. No criticism of the religion is allowed; no questioning of its essence and particularly of the conservative and archaic interpretation of the Book. Once conditioned this way, people stopped questioning and criticizing first the feudalist, and later capitalist oppression; they also accepted without blinking the plunder of their natural resources by local and foreign masters. All attempts to build a socialist and egalitarian society got deterred, brutally, ‘in the name of Islam’ and ‘in the name of God’”.
Of course, as a result, the Western imperialists and the local servile ‘elites’ are laughing all the way to the bank, at the expense of those impoverished and duped millions in the countries that are controlled by the Wahhabi and Western dogmas.
Only a few in the devastated, colonized countries actually realize that Wahhabism does not serve God or the people; it is helping Western interests and greed.
Precisely this is what is right now happening in Indonesia, but also in several other countries that have been conquered by the West, including Iraq and Afghanistan.
Were Syria to fall, this historically secular and socially-oriented nation would be forced into the same horrid direction. People there are well aware of this, as they are educated. They also see what has happened to Libya and Iraq and they definitely do not want to end up like them. It is the Wahhabi terrorist fighters that both the West and its lackeys like Saudi Arabia unleashed against the Syrian state and its people.
*
Despite its hypocritical secular rhetoric, manufactured mainly for local consumption but not for the colonies, the West is glorifying or at least refusing to openly criticize its own brutal and ‘anti-people’ offspring – a concept which has already consumed and ruined both the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. In fact, it is trying to convince the world that these two countries are ‘normal’, and in the case of Indonesia, both ‘democratic’ and ‘tolerant’. At the same time, it has consistently been antagonizing almost all the secular or relatively secular nations with substantial Muslim majorities, such as Syria (until now), but also Afghanistan, Iran (prior to the coup of 1953), Iraq and Libya before they were thoroughly and brutally smashed.
It is because the state, in which the KSA, Indonesia and the present-day Afghanistan can be found, is the direct result of both Western interventions and indoctrination. The injected Wahhabi dogma is giving this Western ‘project’ a Muslim flavor, while justifying trillions of dollars on ‘defense spending’ for the so-called ‘War on Terror’ (a concept resembling an Asian fishing pond where fish are brought in and then fished out for a fee).
Obedience, even submissiveness – is where, for many reasons, the West wants its ‘client’ states and neo-colonies to be. The KSA is an important trophy because of its oil, and strategic position in the region. Saudi rulers are often going out of their way to please their masters in London and Washington, implementing the most aggressive pro-Western foreign policy. Afghanistan is ‘valued’ for its geographical location, which could potentially allow the West to intimidate and even eventually invade both Iran and Pakistan, while inserting extremist Muslim movements into China, Russia and the former Soviet Central Asian republics. Between 1 and 3 million Indonesian people ‘had to be’ massacred in 1965-66, in order to bring to power a corrupt turbo-capitalist clique which could guarantee that the initially bottomless (although now rapidly thinning) natural resources could flow, uninterrupted and often untaxed, into places such as North America, Europe, Japan and Australia.
Frankly, there is absolutely nothing ‘normal’ about countries such as Indonesia and the KSA. In fact, it would take decades, but most likely entire generations, in order to return them to at least some sort of nominal ‘normalcy’. Even if the process were to begin soon, the West hopes that by the time it ends, almost all of the natural resources of these countries would be gone.
But the process is not yet even beginning. The main reason for the intellectual stagnation and lack or resistance is obvious: people in countries such as Indonesia and KSA are conditioned so they are not able to see the brutal reality that surrounds them. They are indoctrinated and ‘pacified’. They have been told that socialism equals atheism and that atheism is evil, illegal and ‘sinful’.
Hence, Islam was modified by the Western and Saudi demagogues, and has been ‘sent to a battle’, against progress and a just, egalitarian arrangement of the world.
This version of religion is unapologetically defending Western imperialism, savage capitalism as well as the intellectual and creative collapse of the countries into which it was injected, including Indonesia. There, in turn, the West tolerates the thorough corruption, grotesque lack of social services, and even genocides and holocausts committed first against the Indonesians themselves, then against the people of East Timor, and to this day against the defenseless Papuan men, women and children. And it is not only a ‘tolerance’ – the West participates directly in these massacres and extermination campaigns, as it also takes part in spreading the vilest forms of Wahabi terrorism and dogmas to all corners of the world. . All this, while tens of millions of the followers of Wahhabism are filling the mosques daily, performing mechanical rituals without any deeper thought or soul searching.
Wahhabism works – it works for the mining companies and banks with their headquarters in London and New York. It also works extremely well for the rulers and the local ‘elites’ inside the ‘client’ states.
*
Ziauddin Sardar, a leading Muslim scholar from Pakistan, who is based in London, has no doubts that ‘Muslim fundamentalism’ is, to a great extent, the result of the Western imperialism and colonialism.
In a conversation which we had several years ago, he explained:
As a consequence, Muslim cultures were de-linked from their own history with many serious consequences. For example, the colonial suppression of Islamic science led to the displacement of scientific culture from Muslim society. It did this by introducing new systems of administration, law, education and economy all of which were designed to impart dependence, compliance and subservience to the colonial powers. The decline of Islamic science and learning is one aspect of the general economic and political decay and deterioration of Muslim societies. Islam has thus been transformed from a dynamic culture and a holistic way of life to mere rhetoric. Islamic education has become a cul-de-sac, a one-way ticket to marginality. It also led to the conceptual reduction of Muslim civilization. By which I mean concepts that shaped and gave direction to Muslim societies became divorced from the actual daily lives of Muslims – leading to the kind of intellectual impasse that we find in Muslim societies today. Western neo-colonialism perpetuates that system.
*
In Indonesia, after the Western-sponsored military coup of 1965, which destroyed the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI) and brought to power an extreme pro-market and pro-Western regime, things are deteriorating with a frightening predictability, consistency and speed.
While the fascist dictator Suharto, a Western implant after 1965, was said to be ‘suspicious of Islam’, he actually used all major religions on his archipelago with great precision and fatal impact. During his pro-market despotism, all left-wing movements and ‘-isms’ were banned, and so were most of the progressive forms of arts and thought. The Chinese language was made illegal. Atheism was also banned. Indonesia rapidly became one of the most religious countries on Earth.
At least one million people, including members of the PKI, were brutally massacred in one of the most monstrous genocides of the 20th century.
The fascist dictatorship of General Suharto often played the Islamic card for its political ends. As described by John Pilger in his book, “The New Rulers of The World”:
In the pogroms of 1965-66, Suharto’s generals often used Islamicist groups to attack communists and anybody who got in the way. A pattern emerged; whenever the army wanted to assert its political authority, it would use Islamicists in acts of violence and sabotage, so that sectarianism could be blamed and justify the inevitable ‘crackdown’ – by the army…”
‘A fine example’ of cooperation between the murderous right-wing dictatorship and radical Islam.
After Suharto stepped down, the trend towards a grotesque and fundamentalist interpretation of the monotheist religions continued. Saudi Arabia and the Western-favored and sponsored Wahhabism has been playing an increasingly significant role. And so has Christianity, often preached by radical right-wing former exiles from Communist China and their offspring; mainly in the city of Surabaya but also elsewhere.
From a secular and progressive nation under the leadership of President Sukarno, Indonesia has gradually descended into an increasingly radically backward-looking and bigoted Wahhabi-style/Christian Pentecostal state.
After being forced to resign as the President of Indonesia during what many considered a constitutional coup, a progressive Muslim cleric and undoubtedly a closet socialist, Abdurrahman Wahid (known in Indonesia by his nickname Gus Dur), shared with me his thoughts, on the record:
These days, most of Indonesian people do not care or think about God. They only follow rituals. If God would descend and tell them that their interpretation of Islam is wrong, they’d continue following this form of Islam and ignore the God.”
‘Gus Dur’ also clearly saw through all the tricks of the military and pro-Western elites. He told me, among other things, that the 2003 Marriott Hotel bombing in Jakarta was organized by the Indonesian security forces, and later blamed on the Islamists, who were actually only executing the orders given to them by their political bosses from the pro-Western military regime, which until now is being disguised as a, ‘multi-party democracy’.
In Indonesia, an extreme and unquestioning obedience to the religions has led to a blind acceptance of a fascist capitalist system, and of Western imperialism and its propaganda. Creativity and intellectual pluralism have been thoroughly liquidated.
The 4th most populous nation on the planet, Indonesia, has presently no scientists, architects, philosophers or artists of any international standing. Its economy is fueled exclusively by the unbridled plunder of the natural resources of the vast, and in the past, pristine parts of the country, such as Sumatra and Indonesian Borneo (Kalimantan), as well as on the brutally-occupied Western part of Papua. The scale of the environmental destruction is monumental; something that I am presently trying to capture in two documentary films and a book.
Awareness of the state of things, even among the victims, is minimal or out rightly nonexistent.
In a country that has been robbed of its riches; identity, culture and future, religions now playthe most important role. There is simply nothing else left for the majority. Nihilism, cynicism, corruption and thuggery are ruling unopposed. In the cities with no theatres, galleries, art cinemas, but also no public transportation or even sidewalks, in the monstrous urban centers abandoned to the ‘markets’ with hardly any greenery or public parks, religions are readily filling the emptiness. Being themselves regressive, pro-market oriented and greedy, the results are easily predictable.
In the city of Surabaya, during the capturing of footage for my documentary film produced for a South American television network TeleSur (Surabaya – Eaten Alive by Capitalism), I stumbled over an enormous Protestant Christian gathering at a mall, where thousands of people were in an absolute trance, yelling and lifting their eyes towards the ceiling. A female preacher was shouting into a microphone:
God loves the rich, and that is why they are rich! God hates the poor, and that’s why they are poor!”
Von Hayek, Friedmann, Rockefeller, Wahab and Lloyd George combined could hardly define their ‘ideals’ in more precise way.
*
What exactly did the Saudi Prince say, during his memorable and ground-breaking interview with The Washington Post? And why is it so relevant to places like Indonesia?
In essence, he said that the West asked the Saudis to make the ‘client’ states more and more religious, by building madrassahs and mosques. He also added:
I believe Islam is sensible, Islam is simple, and people are trying to hijack it.”
People? The Saudi themselves? Clerics in such places like Indonesia? The Western rulers?
In Teheran, Iran, while discussing the problem with numerous religious leaders, I was told, repeatedly:
The West managed to create a totally new and strange religion, and then it injected it into various countries. It calls it Islam, but we can’t recognize it… It is not Islam, not Islam at all.”
*
In May 2018, in Indonesia, members of outlawed terrorist groups rioted in jail, took hostages, then brutally murdered prison guards. After the rebellion was crushed, several explosions shook East Java. Churches and police stations went up in flames. People died.
The killers used their family members, even children, to perpetrate the attacks. The men in charge were actually inspired by the Indonesian fighters who were implanted into in Syria – the terrorists and murderers who were apprehended and deported by Damascus back to their large and confused country.
Many Indonesian terrorists who fought in Syria are now on their home turf, igniting and ‘inspiring’ their fellow citizens. The same situation as in the past – the Indonesian jihadi cadres who fought against the pro-Soviet government in Afghanistan later returned and killed hundreds and thousands in Poso, Ambon and other parts of Indonesia.
Indonesian extremists are becoming world-famous, fighting the battles of the West as legionnaires, in Afghanistan, Syria, Philippines and elsewhere.
Their influence at home is also growing. It is now impossible to even mention any social or god forbid, socialist reforms in public. Meetings are broken up, participants beaten, and even people’s representatives (MP’s) intimidated, accused of being “communists”, in a country where Communism is still banned by the regime.
The progressive and extremely popular Jakarta governor, Ahok, first lost elections and was then put on trial and thrown into jail for “insulting Islam”, clearly fabricated charges. His main sin – cleaning Jakarta’s polluted rivers, constructing a public transportation network, and improving the lives of ordinary people. That was clearly ‘un-Islamic’, at least from the point of view of Wahhabism and the Western global regime.
Radical Indonesian Islam is now feared. It goes unchallenged. It is gaining ground, as almost no one would dare to openly criticize it. It will soon overwhelm and suppress the entire society.
And in the West ‘political correctness’ is used. It is lately simply ‘impolite’ to criticize Indonesian or even the Saudi form of ‘Islam’, out of ‘respect’ for the people and their ‘culture’. In reality, it is not the Saudi or Indonesian people who get ‘protected’ – it is the West and its imperialist policies; policies and manipulations that are used against both the people and the essence of Muslim religion.
*
While the Wahhabi/Western dogma is getting stronger and stronger, what is left of the Indonesian forests is burning. The country is literally being plundered by the Western multi-national companies and by its local corrupt elites.
Religions, the Indonesian fascist regime and Western imperialism are marching forward, hand in hand. But forward – where? Most likely towards the total collapse of the Indonesian state. Towards the misery that will come soon, when everything is logged out and mined out.
It is the same, as when Wahhabism used to march hand in hand with the British imperialists and plunderers. Except that the Saudis found their huge oil fields, plenty of oil to sustain themselves (or at least their elites and the middle class, as the poor still live in misery there) and their bizarre, British-inspired and sponsored interpretation of Islam.
Indonesia and other countries that have fallen victims to this dogma are not and will not be so ‘lucky’.
It is lovely that the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman spoke publicly and clarified the situation. But who will listen?
For the Indonesian people, his statements came too late. They did not open many eyes, caused no uprising, no revolution. To understand what he said would require at least some basic knowledge of both the local, and world history, and at least some ability to think logically. All this is lacking, desperately, in the countries that have found themselves squashed by the destructive imperialist embrace.
The former President of Indonesia, Abdurrahman Wahid, was correct:
“If God would come and say… people would not follow God…”
Indonesia will continue following Mr. Wahab, and the capitalist dogma and the Western imperialists who ‘arranged it all’. They will do it for years to come, feeling righteous, blasting old North American tunes in order to fill the silence, in order not to think and not to question what is happening around them. There will be no doubts. There will be no change, no awakening and no revolution.
Until the last tree falls, until the last river and stream gets poisoned, until there is nothing left for the people. Until there is total, absolute submission: until everything is burned down, black and grey. Maybe then, few tiny, humble roots of awakening and resistance would begin to grow.
First published by New Eastern Outlook – NEO
Andre Vltchek is a philosopher, novelist, filmmaker and investigative journalist. He has covered wars and conflicts in dozens of countries. Three of his latest books are his tribute to “The Great October Socialist Revolution” a revolutionary novel “Aurora” and a bestselling work of political non-fiction: “Exposing Lies Of The Empire” View his other books here. Watch Rwanda Gambit, his groundbreaking documentary about Rwanda and DRCongo and his film/dialogue with Noam Chomsky “On Western Terrorism”. Vltchek presently resides in East Asia and the Middle East, and continues to work around the world. He can be reached through his website and his Twitter.
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Religion alone is a dangerous stew. But when you add ambition, avarice and arrogance, it becomes a TOXIC BREW.
A quote from Tolkien may be appropriate.
“Kill them. Kill them all”
Andrew’s analysis has many strengths, despite his odd English. Andre and I look at the world differently, in some ways. Functioning, organized religion doesn’t work either – if it’s wrong. Indeed, Andrew presents a situation and reality that will be, for some but not all, a reason to reject organized religion. Others, thoughtful and dull, will notice the impossible to miss thing about organized (functioning) religion of all stripes, namely the irrationality, and go along with a pogrom (to be announced, I believe) to eradicate such an anti-progress force. But in that soon to come day, Will enlightenment’s avengers be careful in their righteous crusade to not execute religious individuals who are sane and actually loyal to God?
God: ‘He who is touching you (his people) is touching my eyeball’. Meaning, You – the violent and lawless one – won’t be forbidden, at this time, from attacking the innocent, but there will be a reaction. There will be consequences. And no one can destroy a soul except the Creator.
An excellent article.As usual.Thanks
Perhaps the whole of the Timorese, should be mentioned..
Of course, working at B.P. one is trained to keep a constant ‘eye’ on all such places .. & @FCO
Logically Port Moresby too, I tender, from experience .. 😉 Just in case they have to crack down for a moment & bash the locals about a bit, then they have to withdraw their personnel & operatives, for security purposes, briefly!
No worries, just briefly mind you .. & Command Strategy with perfect compartmentalisation ..
But , for so many decades, same ‘game’ wherever Shell & Exxon plus a few other ‘Majors’ have large interests .. people manipulation & mind control is key, R&RS reins & reigns supremely commanded by the ” OBSEBENE ” obsessive forces of Zion, that lie within & above Governance anywhere.
For example not many probably know about B.P.’s interests in Purina Mills: coz’ itsa’ a complex game making dog food for the 360 degree contentment of the Pavlov’s Dogs Psychology & Cycles of Needs to bankroll capitalism & market hegemony !! and the Dog Handlers interchange to confuse you , too , with a “wilderness of mirrors ..” (metaphor of the day courtesy Ross Hendry 😉 nice one 🙂 )
The “Wahhabi Stragey” of British Military Intelligence works universally, when applied , due to greed & human weakness, the ability to compromise & hey, if the guy or gal is impeachable & cannot be corrupted in mind.. Set the Media Wolves of Zion onto them, like Dilma Rousseff ..ousted while complaining to the wholly compromised and (sexually, too) U.N. .. OR, plain
Just kill’em , dat’s d’Mentality of British Secret Services
Primitive puppet Psychology, with Ground ZERO credibility , except for the ‘patent’ (sic) of
A P A R T H E I D !
As key tool … how sick is that, today in 2018 ?
Morally speaking, absofurkin’lutely Nauseating, & unfurkin’believably ..
Low level intellect, quite honestly schoolboy/girlish ..
Reflecting on previous personal experience , since my youth.
Generally manifesting themselves as , Arrogant, ignorant & cheeky societal sociopathic behaviours,
bit like Boris Johnson, with a wilful destruction of CULTURE in mind,
Which is today in LAW in the UN a TERRORIST ACT !
According UNESO & thanks to IRINA BOKOVA ..
AMEN or aaaaMen
(take yer’ pick)
And Irina Bokova during the process of Changing UNESCO came in under Budget ..
Why am I not surprised , (my Gran would say 😉 !
Yep , she saved money , refined the institutionalism , reduced costs, as requested & instructed and still managed to establish something visionary & truly monumental for to Change the U.N.
Smart woman: should have been made Secretary General, by far & away the most suitable person for the job in hand NOW.. but , logic, the forces of Zion Merkel, May & PM Borisov & Stalinka Georgieva) amongst many others all colluded & conspired to Stop Bokova winning at all cost ,,
One sees why ..
“We need to realize that colonialism did much more than simply damage Muslim nations and cultures. It played a major part in the suppression and eventual disappearance of knowledge and learning, thought and creativity, from Muslim cultures. The colonial encounter began by appropriating the knowledge and learning of Islam, which became the basis of the ‘European Renaissance’ and ‘the Enlightenment’ and ended by eradicating this knowledge and learning from both from Muslim societies and from history itself. It did that both by physical elimination …”
That’s where I stopped reading. European expansionism replaced Arab/Muslim expansionism during the Renaissance because scientific and technical advances allowed European traders (first Portuguese, then Dutch and finally British) to replace Arab/Muslim traders in the far-distant trade between Asia and Europe. The accumulated capital from that trade led to a flourishing of culture and science and finally to the industrial revolution, while the Arab/Muslim world stagnated. That’s no apology of Western colonialism, but there was nothing benign about Arab/Muslim conquests in the previous period.
Thus, the fact that the 1.6 billion Muslims in the World today represent barely 1% of the World’s technological innovations has nothing to do with what happened 500 years ago. Japan and Korea reached Western levels within a few decades. The blaming game won’t help the Muslim world to overcome its inherent problems.
” European expansionism replaced Arab/Muslim expansionism during the Renaissance because scientific and technical advances allowed European traders (first Portuguese, then Dutch and finally British) to replace Arab/Muslim traders in the far-distant trade between Asia and Europe.”
This is not true, though it is very reassuring for western capitalists and part of the mythology of imperialism.
The basic advantage of the western traders was their possession of cash, in the form of silver which they plundered after their invasions of America. They needed this cash because they produced very little that Asians wanted to buy- which suggests that technologically the ‘east’ was at least as advanced as the west.
For example Indian cotton textiles were greatly valued and nobody in europe could compete with them, in part because european dyes were much less advanced than those developed in Bengal. China also produced silks and porcelain which were greatly in demand in europe-and long had been: nothing that europeans produced was of much interest to the chinese.
The truth is that europe owed its dominance of America-the key to world power for 500 years- to an historical accident, the withdrawal of the Ming from maritime exploration, early in the fifteenth century.
As the voyages of Zheng He demonstrated China was far in advance, in terms of marine technology and navigation: where Columbus led an expedition (not coincidentally searching for a more direct route to China) of three tiny ships and a few dozen men, Zheng He’s fleet, in 1405, one of seven expeditions that he led, included 250 ships and more than 25,000 men.
As to your remarks on Islamic imperialism it is worthy of remark it had no equivalent of the genocidal character of Europe in America. It is one of the more lamentable features of the current zionist inspired imperialist propaganda that it is intensely racist and has employed anti-islamic racism to habituate public opinion to the regular assaults on muslim populations from Gaza to Iraq.
True, indeed. No lengthy research reveals Zionists behind, or right out in front of, nearly all the Islamophobic hatred in the West. The very same forces that screech about ‘antisemitism’ at the drop of a hat, and often entirely fraudulently, themselves are the greatest hate-mongers on Earth. Just look at Hollywood, where Arabs, Moslem and the Palestinians are ALWAYS portrayed negatively, often viciously so, and Jews, to understate matters, are not.
@Humbaba S.A.S. ! ? Short Attention Span .. ?
You really should have read to the end of the article, first, before commenting, in your case ..
The article just got better & better towards the end, and datsa’ Fact you have completely precluded yourself from understanding and indeed you have quite famously now, got hold of completely the wrong end of the stick..
All because you chose to judge the book by the cover: Simples !
try commenting again after you have read the whole article and do yourself a favour or you will descend into to the numbers of the barbarous multitudes , with mind afflicted preconceptions installed already, to a degree, in your case !
What a silly comment , simply not up to speed ..
S.A.S. ? ? only you know ..
You forget, Humbaba, that Japan and South Korea don’t have oil or any other energy resources that the West desires and is prepared to acquire to their original owners’ cost.
Japan and South Korea reached Western levels of technological advancement and material prosperity mainly by pursuing a particular form of economic development policy that emphasised making items for export and acquiring foreign reserves, at the cost of keeping their workers’ wages low and suppressing their own consumption of goods and services for a long time (until the late 1980s). In South Korea’s case in particular, democracy was denied (until the 1990s) to help maintain that policy.
Also I sort of recall reading that during the 1600s and 1700s, the Portuguese, the Dutch and the English were in the habit of forcing kingdoms and other states around the Indian Ocean and in Southeast Asia to trade with them – more often than not, at the point of guns and cannons.
Haven’t read the whole article yet but just a few paragraphs in and this great Quote from the OFFG leaps to mind and says it all, considering that which I’m about to devour for a more in depth analysis & for some common consideration & some intelligent brotherly & sisterly communications,
in a civilised fashion ..
by John Wight
** ” It is hard to imagine anything so nauseating as a group of affluent liberals defending the mass murder of poor colonized people in the name o’ … ” **
A P A R T H E I D
(say no more , except one thing) >>
WORSE still , is participating in it in any form & propagating a politic of foreign interference , via any secret services “Wilderness of Mirrors ..” when they haven’t even looked themselves in the mirror , coz’ there lies the eye of the DEVIL himself .. or Herself 🙂
But it is mostly men, just check the Data 🙂
😉
“Hell is empty ..”
The history of the Middle East (Israeli, Iranian, Islamic, migrationary, Jihadist, oil-based, geopolitical ad nauseam) is, like a lot of history, entirely dependent on when one starts the Clock of Blame ticking. Blamestorming finds culprits every time, but it doesn’t help find a solution to the British problem. This is more easy to define: we are allied in terms of foreign policy and arms deals with the wrong people, and now we are reaping what we have sown:
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2018/04/27/skripal-syria-nato-brexit-why-they-are-all-siamese-quads-joined-at-the-head/
The fateful encounter between Roosevelt and Abdul Aziz is described in ‘Bitter Lake’ (from 12:54) – the blue print for the never ending resource wars to come.
Must say it was a very good read indeed on a very senstive and controversial subject and quite a discussion that has ensued in the form of comments!
Yes, MBS certainly alluded to the truth but unfortunately did not dare to tell the whole truth.
KSA’s Western allies did not need to urge the House of Saud to spread the cancer of Wahhabism around the globe; the willing collaboration between the Brits and the Sauds goes back to the mid-18th century and spans over a period of almost two centuries – the Wahhab-Saud duo ambitiously and passionately followed the bait – why play innocent when historically you were equally responsible for the meance called Wahhabism?
Followers of Wahaabism would have been a despicable, unwanted minority if Zionism had not felt a sense of great affinity towards Wahhabism before the two set out to wreak havoc across the globe with a starkly singular goal… wide-spread intellectual and moral depravity especially among the followers of the three revealed Abrahamic religions. https://wannaknowthetruthblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/31/579/#more-579
Here is more:
Feminism could not have spread throughout the world without the backing of powerful state-sponsored institutions.
It is almost certain the same forces behind spreading Wahhabism are also behind spreading feminism all over the world.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a supporter of equality, but also I see the unnatural ramifications of the movement to drive a wedge and ‘destabilise’ relationships between men and women. And who are the ‘Masters’ of destabilisation?
Ask this question too:
How come feminists become ardent supporters of NATO expansion and advocates for more wars in Syria and elsewhere?
How come Feminists become vehemently anti-Putin while they spare the religious fundamentalists in Texas and in the US government?
Feminazi Identity Politics ‘feminism’ is a travesty of all efforts to emancipate women fully. It is a project of elite feminazis in the West, who, in their wealth and privilege, give NO thought to and hold NO concern for the vast bulk of women oppressed by the Evil economic system that creates the privilege that the feminazis enjoy. It is just another ‘Divide and Rule’ tactic designed to set the serfs at each other’s throats, to better enable the rich elite parasites, including the females, to consolidate their neo-feudal rule over humanity. The epitome of the Western elite feminazis is surely that monstrous creature, Hillary Clinton.
An example of “our sorry lot of Western Leaders nurturing their Wahabeasts in the ME then exporting them to the rest of the world”. Pepe Escobar of the Asia Times online:
Iranian academic spells out Iran’s position in the Middle East and questions _US policy toward the region; amid reports that the Qods force is unlikely to disband, and that Daesh (ISIS) is being moved the Afghanistan-Pakistan border_
http://www.atimes.com/article/the-syria-connection-to-iran-afghanistan-and-china/
The Wahabi path of hatred by FUKZUSA, above. The path of reconciliation by Syria, Iran and Russia:
“Canthama
There is a very intense backstage movement by Russia to halt the war in Syria, it has many facets and sometimes it takes unpredictable turns, but the direction seems clear. What we know so far:
1) The SAA High command has taken a decision to return full control of the southern part of the country, all the border with Jordan and the occupied Golan. The amount of soldiers that have arrived is very large, as well as equipments, most if not all elite troops were moved to the south, some still traveling.
2) Jordan has failed to convince the terrorists to reconcile, Jordan is desperate to have the Nassib border crossing open again so trade flows to Syria and Lebanon, while with Turkey the trade route has been doubled thru Iraq post ISIS. Jordan is engaged to really get this resolved, finally, and of course, since the coalition of idiots did not manage to defeat Syria.
3) There are intense talks and many countries are involved putting their needs up front, impossible to get all aligned but a compromise may be reached, even if that happens, it is no guarantee the terrorists will simply walk away.
4) More than 100 villages in the south have signal that they are fine with reconciliation, since late 2016. Many continue to indicate that they are very open to reconciliation, at this stage in time, they know their war is over and they are all trying to preserve their villages and business the best they can.
5) It seems should a deal is broken in the south, and should the terrorists, at least most of them, are ok with that (Idlib or reconciliation), then this format may be used to get NE-North-East of Syria back together, it is a long shot, but this is still on Russia’s original intention and current backstage diplomacy. Worth noting that recent talks with France in St Petersburg related to Syria was focused on its unity and peaceful settlement. It seems Macaroni is not playing the peace maker (took unearned credit for Lebanon-Hariri, now it is taking on Libya and maybe he will try to take if from Syria as well, who knows?).
6) Iran has formally convey its position to Jordan, a key play in the south and a Israeli/US slave State. Iran and Hizballah have indeed moved all their forced form the south since last week, this is confirmed fact.
7) Speculation is on possible US move out of al Tanf, Russia is pressuring very strongly at the moment, lots of press coverage on many Lavrov’s statements in the past few days around the world, and it is well known that even Jordan is pressuring the US to leave al Tanf area.
7) The timeline is clear though, after Ramadan this has to be resolved, if not politically, it will be by force, so roughly 2 weeks time.”
PS speech by Dr.Assad, how to defuse conflicts in the ME:
https://youtu.be/YB-McdKnFtQ
Look and see what they [advocates of Western Imperialism] are doing:
A) Fuel radicalism and extremism together with radical behaviour on the on hand, and
B) On the other hand, spread anti-Islam propaganda all over of the world.
What is your conclusion?
Plenty of evidence is available now to convince the rest of the world to impose the harshest sanctions against the West and chiefly against the foreign policy makers in Washington, the centre of worldwide terrorism.
Religious belief and adherence I have always seen as the surest manifestation of insanity, of a weakness of, a failure of development of the mind, a glitch in the human makeup, an exploitable legacy bug in the wetware, rich for exploitation for despotic and divisive ends, a signifier of superstitiousness and backwardness. The monotheistic religions Judaism, Christianity, Islamicism, all having their basis in their big compendium of fairy stories, their big magic holy books of legends and myth, wizards’ books of spells and incantations, propaganda and fake news, bogus history. Religions exist only to increase the wealth and status, the control over others of their hierarchies and elite clergies for all of whom it is simply a game, an easy means to malign ends for con-artists, charlatans, thieves and murderers. Simply to say one is the true superior religion or creed, the other apostasy, a corruption, is moral cowardice, dereliction. They’re all cast of the same mould.
A nuance-free and rather graceless comment, Tony M, in my opinion.
Bogus certainty is never a good idea, whichever angle it’s coming from. Neither is telling other people what’s what.
@Gwyn. I have the impression that TonyM has been reading too much Gibbon, too much Voltaire, and too much Bertrand Russel (who had themselves been reading too much Lucretius). The strange thing is, every charge these authors brought against Religion can be verified — and yet, “The Dream of Reason breeds monsters”. The deepest sins are the sins of perverted Reason — Dante, Inferno. Try to imagine a world ruled by Reason but without Faith, Hope or Charity — then look around at this 21st century AD.
Monsters everywhere you look, vexarb. Things seem to get more and more surreal and dreamlike.
What has religion ever been but a means of elite control, or channeling, corraling thought, minds and with it bodies, often enough as justification for evil doings?
Wars were fought where opposing sides different creeds, forks if you like of the same essential religion, or the very same, were exhorted by their respective clergy that they were on the side of right, that this imaginary thing, the cult of the invisible man, that phantasm ‘god’ was on their side, Gott mit uns -god with us.
Or the crusaders cry in justification for periodic bouts of organised slaughter, and surely at that time representative of mainstream organised state-sanctioned christianity: ‘God wills it’ doesn’t differ much from that of the extremist muslim sects similar cries as they go about their head-chopping good works.
Taking the widest possible definition of religion to include any dogma elevated beyond reason or morality the quotation of Steven Weinberg: “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” holds true.
More eloquently and succinctly put by Mark Twain “Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.” History is replete with examples of this. It really causes more trouble than it is worth. It is a net negative. divide et impera. If there weren’t religions then someone would have to invent them, as someone did in the first place.
The great fun is the knots people tie themselves into in attempting to refute such observations. People do good because they are human, not because they are religious. This ‘god’ delusion of some deserves no credit for the good they do, they did it themselves.
I like to think Scottish writer Alasdair Gray, in ‘Lanark’ was thinking of religion with the mesmeric phrase: “Man is the pie that bakes and eats itself, the recipe is separation”.
It’s a bug, not a feature.
@TonyM. Prompted me to re-read Lucretius (1stC BC) a scathing denunciation of the evils of Foul Religion by a materialist hot-gospeller; probably the best exposition of that opinion ever — an epic poet of Materialism, as Virgil was the epic poet of Empire. And scarcely 100 years later come Rabbi Yeshuah of Nazareth and Paul of Tarsus to write for Religion in letters of fire.
“… the rest [For and Against] is Commentary.” — Rabbi Hillel of Babylon
@stevehayes13
I choose to believe you are not a troll, so:-
Bin Saud and Wahabbi indulged in a power share to get what they wanted, from Wicki:
“Despite his teachings being rejected and opposed by many of the most notable Sunni Muslim scholars of the period,[1] including his own father and brother,[1] Ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab charted a religio-political pact with Muhammad bin Saud to help him to establish the Emirate of Diriyah, the first Saudi state,[7] and began a dynastic alliance and power-sharing arrangement between their families which continues to the present day in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.[8] The Al ash-Sheikh, Saudi Arabia’s leading religious family, are the descendants of Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab, and have historically led the ulama in the Saudi state,[9] dominating the state’s clerical institutions.[10
….he persuaded Ibn Mu’ammar to help him level the grave of Zayd ibn al-Khattab, a companion of Muhammad, whose grave was revered by locals. Secondly, he ordered the cutting down of trees considered sacred by locals, cutting down “the most glorified of all of the trees” himself. Third, he organised the stoning of a woman who confessed to having committed adultery…… his own brother, Suleyman ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab wrote one of the first treatises’ refuting Wahhabi doctrine[81] claiming he was ill-educated and intolerant, and classing Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab’s views as fringe and fanatical.[78]
The Shafi’i mufti of Mecca, Ahmed ibn Zayni Dehlan, wrote an anti-Wahhabi treatise, the bulk of which consists of arguments and proof from the sunna to uphold the validity of practices the Wahhabis considered idolatrous: Visiting the tombs of Muhammad, seeking the intercession of saints, venerating Muhammad and obtaining the blessings of saints….Historical accounts of Wahhab also state that, “Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab saw it as his mission to restore a more purer and original form of the faith of Islam. … Anyone who didn’t adhere to this interpretation were considered polytheists worthy of death, including fellow Muslims (especially Shi’ite who venerate the family of Muhammad), Christians and others. He also advocated for a literalist interpretation of the Quran and its laws….The 1744 pact between Muhammad bin Saud and Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab marked the emergence of the first Saudi state, the Emirate of Diriyah. By offering the Al Saud a clearly defined religious mission, the alliance provided the ideological impetus to Saudi expansion.[10] First conquering Najd, Saud’s forces expanded the Salafi influence to most of the present-day territory of Saudi Arabia,[10] eradicating various popular practices they viewed as akin to polytheism and propagating the doctrines of ʿAbd al-Wahhab….”
Although Islam is complicated, just like Christianity, Wahabism is imposed and is an extreme form of Sufism whose followers were split between Abu Akbar (the first caliph(Sunni) and The fourth Caliph Muhammed’s son in law Ali (Shia)) – THAT is why Wahabbism is not inherent in Islam.
Both Ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad bin Saud were doenmeh, ie crypto-Jewish followers of the failed ‘Messiah’ Sabbatai Zevi. Wahhanism is pure Evil, a fundamentalist death-cult dedicated to genocide and aggression-ie a perfect ally for the USA and Israel, both theocratic states pretending to be ‘democracies’. Its victims are overwhelming Moslems, Shia and non-fundamentalist Sunnis. The Sordid Arabian regime is perhaps the most Evil on Earth, but some of its grandee princes do still address Israelis as ‘cousins’.
Mohandeer, I said that Wahabbism is a form of Islam. Your comment, which is presented as though it were a refutation, does not refute my assertion; on the contrary, it supports it.
“Between 1 and 3 million Indonesian people ‘had to be’ massacred in 1965-66, in order to bring to power a corrupt turbo-capitalist clique which could guarantee that the initially bottomless (although now rapidly thinning) natural resources could flow, uninterrupted and often untaxed, into places such as North America, Europe, Japan and Australia.” – the absolute central feature and purpose of the current system is to maintain the West’s continuing 500+ years of planetary plunder while publicly promoting Western nations as “humanitarians” here to save the planet.
The type of anti-imperialist Vltchek analysis that isn’t welcome on the pages of Counterpunch anymore, where imperialist war-mongering disguised as “progressive” thinking is now the order of the day. I’m grateful to see his work here.
The utter moral corruption of the West is the most striking feature of our current global situation. Just as those adherents of radical Islam are locked tight in a cognitive box that prevents unwanted thoughts and perceptions, so we in the West are similarly confined. As Andre deftly points out, our “identity politics” is useful in preventing critiques of KSA beheadings or the bombing of Yemen. Of course through our own self-deception we can pull “humanitarian intervention” out of our arse whenever we desire to wipe a secular regime off the face of the earth in support of our continued plunder. Meanwhile the Hillary “progressives” don’t miss a wink of sleep, given their inability to even formulate an ethical proposition in their little “I’m with her” brainwashed brains. It is quite a seamless system of thought control.
Excellent article. Seek out an early interview with Omar Bakri Mohammed (he of el majaharoun and early Finsbury Park mosque shenanigans) and a journalist called Ron Susskind, I think. It’s on historycommons.org. I’ll try to find it later
More truth from Vltchek. Agreed 100%. This essay should have been published much earlier and in more places. And hundreds like it. It had to wait for the cracking of the Wall of Lies by sites such as this.
Just because the west has utilised Wahabbism for its imperial purposes, it does not follow that Wahabbism is not a form of Islam. Moreover, the notion that Islam strives for an egalitarian and socialist world is nothing short of delusional.
@Hayes. Not nearly as delusional as the wind-fed sheeple. See previous quote from Orwell. One of my greatest disappointments was when Dr.Assad’s minister went to the trouble of writing a letter to respected Arabist Robert Fisk explaining Sufism — and Fisk ignored it. That was when Syria looked like going the way of Libya, and Fisk dared not contradict the AZC Line that Islam is extremist and authoritarian. What drew me to sympathise with the Syrian cause was precisely the Islamic Socialist and Egalitarian policies of President and First L’dy Assad; they reminded me of Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt.
The Roosevelts are hardly examples of people committed to egalitarianism and socialism.
stevehayes13 – so far you’ve posted two fact free nonsense comments in response to a rather seriously anti-imperialist article by Vltchek. By my count you’ve done an excellent job with the (4D’s / Deny / Disrupt / Degrade / Deceive), right out of the government troll manual – techniques designed of course to derail and undermine productive conversations at progressive sites like this. The manual is Ed Snowden’s gift to the world for identifying trolls or people who “post like” government trolls.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Perhaps if you try really really hard you can manage a thought and a response to Mr. Vltchek’s article that doesn’t sound like you’re simply an apologist for amoral Western empire.
stevehayes13 – so far you’ve posted two fact free nonsense comments in response to a rather seriously anti-imperialist article by Vltchek.
By my count you’ve done an excellent job with the (4D’s / Deny / Disrupt / Degrade / Deceive), right out of the government troll manual – techniques designed of course to derail and undermine productive conversations at progressive sites like this. The manual is Ed Snowden’s gift to the world for identifying trolls or people who “post like” government trolls.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Perhaps if you try really really hard you can manage a thought and a response to Mr. Vltchek’s article that doesn’t sound like you’re simply an apologist for amoral Western empire. Unless of course that is exactly what you are.
@Hayes. Were you alive in 1935-1945? A historian is not only a person who digs up what Ancient Egyptians ate for breakfast; a historian is someone who can read the mind of Ancient Egypt — and apply it to the ZeitGeist of today. There are astonishingly parallels between the progressive, egalitarian, socialist policies of upper class Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt battling with rampant Capitalism and rampant Nazism in the conservative minded USA of their time past, and those of Bashar and Asme Assad battling rampant ZioCapitalism and rampant NATZOism in the conservative minded Middle East of our time present. Both couples fit Hemingway’s definition of courage as, Grace under pressure. A far cry from the sorry lot of present Western Leaders, who seem to be mentally very similar to the Wahabeasts that they have nurtured in the ME and are unleashing on the rest of the world — as Vltchek and others point out above.
“…the sorry lot of present Western Leaders,…” for example, turned up just now on SyPer:
Bundy☭
US President Donald Trump infamously called his Syrian counterpart ‘animal Assad’ in one of his tweets.
When asked whether he has a nickname for Trump,
Assad told RT he does not use such language.
“I think there is a very known principle, that what you say is what you are. So, he wanted to represent what he is, and that’s normal,” he added.
https://www.rt.com/news/428266-assad-exclusive-interview-rt/
Its a shame that the civilized Western world has reverted back to be the barbarians they were
Presidents Assad and Putin are extremely alike in their incomparable talent for hiding their evil and genocidal traits behind a cloak of diplomacy and decency. But that’s what you do when you want to fool the people into thinking you’re something you are not. I mean, look at the three stooges May, Johnson and Williamson. They make out that they are thick, manipulative, lying psychopaths when really they are… hmm, well, I take that back, maybe not a good example.
Judy, how does defending the Syrian people from the real genocidists, the Wahhabist psychopaths of Daash, as Assad and Putin have done, amount to ‘genocide’?
@Mulga – Sorry I’m getting into surreal territory here where I’m starting to confuse myself. Is your question a serious response to my, intended to be but possibly failed in their intent, ironic observations? In which case, I must stress that the reason I made my comment is precisely because I am very much an admirer of both Assad & Putin as human beings and leaders. And definitely NOT an admirer of the other named individuals. Or are you simply rhetorically using my reference to genocide to stress who the true genocidal maniacs in the ME are?
I thought it as well to clarify my position for the benefit of all readers who may well not appreciate my attempt at irony, which maybe I should employ to better effect, if at all, in future! I’ve come to realise that irony is perhaps best used in combination with facial expressions (maybe a wink or two, although that might well be misunderstood as well!) ) and appropriate oral delivery to convey accurately one’s true opinion! I always like @Balky’s use of ‘smiley faces’ and maybe that’s the answer but I confess I don’t know how to add them to comments.
JJ
I have apologised somewhere, Judy, for being dense. I feared that you had been kidnapped, water-boarded and ‘turned’, but I was tired and emotional, as usual, at the time.
@admin (cc @mulga) – Thank you, I appreciate your kind and supportive words and actions on the matter of communications with @Reiner. I agree that we should close exchanges on this issue but I do just, finally, want to stress that @Mulga should certainly not be perceived to be included in any official reprimand. When I set the record straight about my views on Assad and Putin he apologised immediately for the misunderstanding in a sincere and charming manner; showing that when such misunderstandings do happen – as they do – they can be simply resolved in a civilised and adult way. I am used to being the target of abusive ‘troll’/’apologist’ retorts on other forums but it is demoralising to be on the receiving end from people who one actually likes to think of nominally as allies in times when we all need to stick together in our endeavours to stand up for morality and justice.
Kind regards
Judy
Lol, how sweet the irony of our collective fallibility to grab the wrong end of the stick in our human rush to say something on what is truly , Judy, a great article: most important to emphasise above all , the in-depth consideration and lateral thought processes of connectivity to the greater game of the gamers of Zion and their abuse of simple Pavlovian Dog Psychology on humans..
Ta for the compliment, too, most appreciated and yep, exactly because of what you explained, I tend to decorate or inject a symbol for certitude of minds, in terms of surely not misinterpreting , ironic, sardonic and the lowest of all wits being the sarcastic, coz’ in the ole’ days at the Guardian , it became tedious to respond to all the howlers .. 😉 see I leave a space between the semi-colon+bracket connected whereas, if i don’t:), there’s no smile to invite common sentiment:( see?
🙂 airspace on both sides works with a smile 🙂 like dat’ but notlikedat’:( as T.C. would say 🙂 )
be it colon or semi colon with bracket either direction , it must simply stand alone
( 🙁 sadly or not 🙂 )
And what genocide do you believe Putin has committed? Since you have openly accused him of that?
Please be as specific as possible.
1) The genocide of which particular people(s)?
2) How many of that people in total do you allege Putin has killed?
3) What were the locations in which you allege the atrocities took place?
4) Over which dates or periods did these atrocities take place?
5) Which Russian forces do you allege carried out the atrociities? And how did you identify them as Russian governmental forces?
6) Where can the evidence for your claims be seen?
7) Which independent and credible international bodies have registered the fact of the atrocities you allege?
Reinertorheit – I can’t let your comment go without a response as I obviously need to try harder in my attempts to clear my name and become an ‘accepted’ contributor here rather than a perceived ‘troll’. I thought many of the contributors on here knew me well enough to know my views and recognise when I am being ironic…and not moronic. Not that I have an overblown sense of self-importance, but I thought I’d posted enough pro-Assad, pro-Putin, pro-Russia, pro-Syria, anti-Ukraine, anti-Western ‘establishment’ comments in recent weeks to make my stance clear but, hey ho, they clearly have not made any impression whatsoever so I shall bear that in mind if and when I post any comments again. Without wishing to labour the point, did it not seem incongruous that I appear to make ‘accusations’ against Assad and Putin in juxtaposition to condemnatory comments about May, Johnson and Williamson? I had done that specifically with a view to signalling that my first comments were to be read as irony in case there was any doubt…but you can’t win ’em all. You might care to read my response to @Mulga above and take it as a response to you as well. Sorry you had to waste so much time asking completely unnecessary questions because the application of irony is successful for some people but seemingly not for me.
edited by Admin to remove inappropriate content
MM apologised the day BEFORE yesterday, (when you commented), for misinterpreting JudyJ’s words , & yet you have made the same identical mistake , a whole day later than his apology: have you no Mince Pies ? & / ( I note that you in your infinite rush of typically impulsive behavioural patterns, that i am keeping note of), you have still failed to make any form of reserved or unreserved apology, in your perceived state of mind (less) self perfection in all things planetary, even when the mistake is staring you in the face , from the get go ..
What to say, other than let’s not stress Admin again and be a gent and admit that you completely got hold of the wrong end of your wee stick .. you deserve a slap in the face with a wet fish , my Gran would say ..
WHOOOOSH , people have memories, man up, move on , nothing more to see here except your humble token gesture of admission ..
Try opening the website as well as your wordpress account, parallel , to avoid making the same mistake again, or at least scroll up & down and see what others may have said , might think, have thought or even will think in the future ..
28 days are over and I must say , OT sure, but you don’t respond well to the magnetic pull of a full moon. Watch out in future, when in the driving seat .. 😉
Balky – James Taylor expresses my appreciation perfectly .. I suspect I know how Reinertorheit will react so this is for him…if he reads this post.. He probably won’t be amused
“..can’t stop me now..”!
Balky – Unfortunately, as it reads, this message makes little sense – some would say I seem to be making a habit of it! I can’t explain why but I succeeded in putting several emojis in the text before sending but they have disappeared between then and publication. My familiarisation with the use of emojis is patently still a work in progress methinks. Anyway, hope you get my drift.
@JudyJ. I don’t read your messages, or your nitwit pal Balky’s either. I don’t have time to waste on know-nothings.
So go ahead and scrawl whatever brings you pleasure.
NOTE FROM ADMIN: if you did read what she says maybe you’d stop missing the point she’s very obviously making?
This account is acting like a troll and will be treated like one until further notice.
@reiner @Mulga – Judy was being ironic! She was using sarcasm and irony to make a point about double standards in the West. She doe NOT believe Asad and Putin are evil. This was in fact the central point of everything she has said.
@reiner. This isn’t the first time you have turned on a commenter who clearly was agreeing with you. Please stop insulting other commenters because you (a) misconstrue their irony/humour and (b) subsequently refuse to accept this is what you have done.
Since you are bound to respond to this with yet more abuse your comments are being put on pre-mod until you stop the empty ad hom and return to constructive comment.
пошёл ты в жопу
Reiner,
If your comment is complimentary to me or Balky then I thank you. On the other hand, if it’s less than complimentary (as I suspect) then we just need to move on without further ado and say no more about the ‘saga’. It certainly shouldn’t be allowed to taint the rapport that you and Balky have developed over your mutually shared views (views which I also entirely share). At least I recognise that you haven’t used one of BP2’s favoured expressions so for that I’m eternally grateful! (Feel free to imagine a conciliatory ’emoji’ face from me at this point!)
Reiner,
Apologies for this wholly unnecessary situation. It’s certainly not in my nature to promote confrontation, verbal or otherwise. What didn’t help was that my attempts to use emojis in a conciliatory way have probably backfired. Unfortunately you may have thought I was aiming to be discourteous about you in my message to Balky but actually that couldn’t be further from the truth. The emojis I had selected were actually images depicting apprehension (at your reaction, and seemingly justifiably so) and conciliation (which, I can only now deduce, isn’t within your gift to accept). It’s really disappointing that our personalities and (as you believe) intellects are polar opposites whilst our opinions on world and humanitarian affairs are actually basically the same.
Anyway, as I have already stated on here, best that we all move on.
Cheers and all the best.
JJ
@Judy – please don’t apologise. You’ve done nothing wrong. Reiner has been both abusive and idiotic in failing to grasp your obvious real meaning. He’s either trolling or he’s not as bright as he thinks he is. He’s done the same to other commenters. We have yet to determine why.
You absolutely do not need his acceptance in order to be considered a valued member of the forum. You’re already more than welcome here.
Admin said it all, just fine :- no worries there..
but actually, in a way you did us all a big favour: coz’ in the abstract sense it gave me the opportunity to not only reply to Reiner in a more serious and analytical manner, but also illuminate & draw others attention to the appallingly “high”(sic) level & scale of manipulative methodology, not least the Psychology & Mentality, of the British Military Intelligence interference in the Governance of Foreign Sovereign Nations … and Physics too !
by way of evidencing what I said in my comment to D’Stick, given that he is unlikely to open the links, I thought you might appreciate a couple of the things I had originally thought of posting to reine-Frecheit 🙂
https://www.ted.com/talks/james_b_glattfelder_who_controls_the_world
it’s not too long, but gives a good perspective on the Physics as well as the Psychology involved in herding & swarming, also with a view to today…
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph
cough , splutter, I knowwww it’s from the guardian (choking chuckle), but just a quick heads up on what A.i. can do with just 5 Photos of you, me & reineFrecheit .. (with no text 😉 ) photos which we could search somehow, if we really wanted to be invasive: point being Secret Services do search, using this kinda’ programme, as well, especially coz’ it was written by the same guy Michel Kosinski that had his work @Cambridge Uni. cloned by that Prof/Dr. Alex. also of St Petersburg Uni >> point being , they are all “AT IT” , lol, and this could turn out real funny for some of our closeted politicians of all sorts, including the worst kind of E.i. aye aye, if you see where I am heading, in train of thought patterns >> not far down the road and we will be quantifying with certitude the people like that Cardinal Sinner George d’Pedo-PELL, the chief treasurer of the Vatican Bank In ‘Oz’ at the mo. awaiting trial ..
And it is my belief that due to our numbers alone and hackers like Guccifer 2:0, that an Open A.i. will defeat E.i. in the near rather than distant future: because certain faces will just need to disappear from screens of all sorts: bearing in mind that even Mark Zuckerberg was uncomfortable in Congress, as he knew we would be analysing his every facial muscle & behavioural signals that cannot fool a sophisticated A.i. .. with C.A.N.O.E. &&& so many algorithms to still be implemented, like vastly improved facial recognition of African people; sadly lacking at present due to prejudice.. I saw a black woman on TED talking about this factor and she’s working in this direction now, wisely i might add.. I was gonna’ link it but then I thought, naaaah end on a musical N.B. 🙂
it is not the narrative of others we should focus upon, in life , moreover, most critical to mental health is the narrative we tell ourselves .. 🙂 )
That incorporates Soul 😉 & determines direction ..
(a discussion for another day, incorporating the Pathological Liar 🙂 )
P.s. Not really Friday night music, lol , more of an ideal good morning ‘oldie’ stretch of the imagination, with Chuck’s Flügel horn & Esther’s voice, that he purely chanced upon, having written the song, walking out of the studio & there she was, a new face, singing in exactly the style that he was searching in mind: And the result was ‘jazz history’, in the making ..
this discussion is best closed now
Ok fine , no problems: but whilst yer’ there could you do me a favour please and just confirm whether your contact email is actually fully functional again after last weekend. I understand that you have had much to deal with and have no wish to add to levels of stress and frustrations, your end: but my end is also a bit difficult, to say the least, within this Balkan Border ‘Dreiländereck’ and I would like to know more about what happened last Saturday pm for our common benefit & best futures interests, not least security and I need to be a bit more careful than you, perhaps, here on the frontline ..
Yes or No will do just fine, thanking you ..
All our email is working as far as we know – you can email admin directly at [email protected].
Can you check for 3 X ****wildhorses@***** emails, please ..
@Admin: Though relevant and not off topic, it appears that you have removed two of my comments: i can imagine why, despite disagreeing with your actions ; so i’ll try again later with an edited version to Reiner , that is ostensibly intended for other’s consumption
& in the meantime it would be useful for background , to help JudyJ if you would be so good as to forward my full comments , both the one to Reiner & to her that ends with the link to “In the Land of Make Believe” Chuck Mangione & Esther Satterfield via email .. i think it will help cheer her profoundly & harmoniously ..
No harm , thur’ ..
Itsa’ jazz classic that inspires lateral thought processes, with oomph & delicacy for 12 great minutes of morning pleasure & hey, how many people can even identify a Flügelhorn, today 😉
We put your comments on pre-mod because yesterday you posted the real name of another commenter. This is seriously inappropriate and we need to ensure you don’t do this again. We emailed you about it, but it appears you may not have provided a genuine contact address.
Translations:
пошёл ты в жопу = go to hell
Reiner Torheit = Parsifal der Reiner Tor
Be a gallant knight, Reiner, remember the Lady is on your side.
With Mrs May’s government of ignoramuses and charlatans not far behind in calling for Assad’s overthrow and the death sentence for his trial at the Hague.
Perhaps you would like to read the article again and fact check your posits – an understanding of the evolution and differing Islamic cultures might help – then you wouldn’t look such a prat in your ignorance of both Islam and Wahabbism and why they are virtually diametrically opposed. It would of course, require you to study both Muhammed and the ‘Quaran, but at least you would learn something useful. Like all religeons, there are those who would subvert it for their own ends, usually at the expense of the religeons purpose and always to line their own pockets. The Vatican and papacy, the Zionist multi billion dollar organisation are just two examples of cynical and deliberate evil intent, you can work out the rest yourself.
Of course I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, which is my preference, but don’t count on it if you are simply trolling.
Wahhabism is INTENSELY anti-Moslem, as you would expect of a cult created by a doenmeh, or crypto-Jew follower of the failed ‘Messiah’ Sabbatai Zevi. Its victims are overwhelmingly Moslems and it proposes, and practises (as in Syria) genocide for Shia, Alawites, non-takfiri Sunnis and anyone who gets in their way. As the experience with Daash shews, this death-cult attracts inhuman psychopaths and Evil butchers, all trained and financed by the Sordid Arabians and Qatar etc, directed by Thanatopolis DC.
Dear Steve Hayes,
By your logic, we should consider Mormonism and the Jehovah’s Witnesses to be forms of Christianity because they make references to Jesus.
As I understand it, Mormonism has as its foundational revelations and doctrines a set of texts which have nothing in common with the New Testament, shared by all Christians. Wahhabism, in contrast, is as Quran-based as any other form of Islam practised by other Muslims.
Asserting that Wahhabism is a form of Islam is akin to claiming that Nazism is a form of Christianity-but with less credibility.