8 MORE Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic
Our third batch of Medical experts dissenting from the media/political “consensus”.
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Dr John Lee is an English consultant histopathologist at Rotherham General Hospital and formerly clinical professor of pathology at Hull York Medical School. He is most notable to the wider public as co-presenter (with Gunther von Hagens) of Anatomy for Beginners (screened in the UK on Channel 4 in 2005), Autopsy: Life and Death (Channel 4, 2006) and Autopsy: Emergency Room (Channel 4, 2007).
What he says:
But there’s another, potentially even more serious problem: the way that deaths are recorded. If someone dies of a respiratory infection in the UK, the specific cause of the infection is not usually recorded, unless the illness is a rare ‘notifiable disease’.
So the vast majority of respiratory deaths in the UK are recorded as bronchopneumonia, pneumonia, old age or a similar designation. We don’t really test for flu, or other seasonal infections. If the patient has, say, cancer, motor neurone disease or another serious disease, this will be recorded as the cause of death, even if the final illness was a respiratory infection. This means UK certifications normally under-record deaths due to respiratory infections.
Now look at what has happened since the emergence of Covid-19. The list of notifiable diseases has been updated. This list — as well as containing smallpox (which has been extinct for many years) and conditions such as anthrax, brucellosis, plague and rabies (which most UK doctors will never see in their entire careers) — has now been amended to include Covid-19. But not flu. That means every positive test for Covid-19 must be notified, in a way that it just would not be for flu or most other infections.
– How deadly is the coronavirus? It’s still far from clear, The Specator, 28th March 2020<
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Few tests have been carried out in patients with mild symptoms. This means that the number of positive tests will be far lower than the number of people who have had the disease. Sir Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser, has been trying to stress this.
He suggested that the real figure for the number of cases could be 10 to 20 times higher than the official figure. If he’s right, the headline death rate due to this virus will be 10 to 20 times lower than it appears to be from the published figures.
[…]
The distinction between dying ‘with’ Covid-19 and dying ‘due to’ Covid-19 is not just splitting hairs. Consider some examples: an 87-year-old woman with dementia in a nursing home; a 79-year-old man with metastatic bladder cancer; a 29-year-old man with leukaemia treated with chemotherapy; a 46-year-old woman with motor neurone disease for 2 years.
All develop chest infections and die. All test positive for Covid-19. Yet all were vulnerable to death by chest infection from any infective cause (including the flu).
– How to understand & report figures for ‘Covid deaths’, The Spectator, 29th March 2020
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Dr. John Oxford is an English virologist and Professor at Queen Mary, University of London. He is a leading expert on influenza, including bird flu and the 1918 Spanish Influenza, and HIV/AIDS.
What he says:
Personally, I would say the best advice is to spend less time watching TV news which is sensational and not very good. Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic. In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc. I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number. We are suffering from a media epidemic!
– “A VIEW FROM THE HVIVO / OPEN ORPHAN #ORPH LABORATORY”, blog post on Novus Communications website, March 31st 2020
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Prof Knut Wittkowski is German-American researcher and professor of epidemiology. He worked for 15 on the Epidemiology of HIV before heading for 20 years the Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design at The Rockefeller University, New York.
What he says:
With all respiratory diseases, the only thing that stops the disease is herd immunity. About 80% of the people need to have had contact with the virus, and the majority of them won’t even have recognized that they were infected, or they had very, very mild symptoms, especially if they are children. So, it’s very important to keep the schools open and kids mingling to spread the virus to get herd immunity as fast as possible.
[…]
We are experiencing all sorts of counterproductive consequences of not well-thought-through policy
[…]
I have been an epidemiologist for 35 years, and I have been modeling epidemics for 35 years. It’s a pleasure to have the ability to help people to understand, but it’s a struggle to get heard.
Dr Klaus Püschel is German forensic pathologist and former professor of forensics at Essen University and current director of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at the University Medical Center Hamburg-Eppendorf. He has worked on many noteworthy autopsies, as well high-profile forensic archaeological studies.
Contrary to the guidelines of the Robert Koch Institute, his office in Hamburg has started to differentiate between deaths with and from coronavirus, which led to a decrease in Covid19 deaths.
What he says:
This virus influences our lives in a completely excessive way. This is disproportionate to the danger posed by the virus. And the astronomical economic damage now being caused is not commensurate with the danger posed by the virus. I am convinced that the Corona mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality.
All those we have examined so far had cancer, a chronic lung disease, were heavy smokers or severely obese, suffered from diabetes or had a cardiovascular disease. The virus was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak […] Covid-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection.
– “Der streit ums richtige Mas”, Hamburger Morgenpost, 3rd April 2020
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In quite a few cases, we have also found that the current corona infection has nothing whatsoever to do with the fatal outcome because other causes of death are present, for example, a brain haemorrhage or a heart attack. [Covid19 is] not particularly dangerous viral disease […] All speculations about individual deaths that have not been expertly examined only fuel anxiety.
– “Von den Toten lernen für die Lebenden”, Hamburger AbendBlatt, 2nd April 2020
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Dr Alexander Kekulé is a German doctor and biochemist. He has held the Chair for Medical Microbiology and Virology at Martin Luther University Halle-Wittenberg since 1999 and is the current Director of the Institute for Medical Microbiology at the University Hospital Halle.
What he says:
It’s impossible to wait for a vaccine […] The quickest we could have a vaccine ready is in six months. Based on experience, I’d say the reality is closer to a year. We can’t stay under lockdown for six months to a year. If we did that our society and our culture would be ruined.
[…]
People under 50 are very, very unlikely to die or get seriously ill from the coronavirus. We have to let them get infected so they can develop immunity.
– “‘Infect the young and isolate those at risk’ – One German scientist’s plan to end the lockdown”, The Telegraph, 11th April 2020
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Dr Claus Köhnlein is a German Internist based in Kiel and co-author of the book Virus Mania
What he says:
[The coronavirus test] is a PCA-based test, where false positives are programmed in.
Half of [the positive tests] could be wrong. PCA tests often show false positives. You can ask professor Gigerenzer in Berlin about this problem area. The tests are very sensitive. If you have only one molecule of something, the test can show positive. That doesn’t mean the patient is sick, or that he has the coronavirus; it doesn’t get isolated, but one relies wholly on these tests.
At the moment one can’t say how high the mortality rate really is, we need significantly more testing and significantly more sick or deceased people. It is too soon.
But the spreading panic is in large parts founded on news from Italy. And nowadays one doesn’t know how much of it is fake news. I have seen Italian doctors online, where I have compelling suspicions something isn’t right with what they say.
I am a clinician and I don’t see a new disease on the horizon. If you took away the test, life would go on as before, there wouldn’t be anything to see.
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Dr Gérard Krause is head the Department for Epidemiology at the Helmholtz Centre for Infection in Braunschweig, director of the Institute for Infectious Disease Epidemiology at TWINCORE in Hannover and Chair of the PhD Program Epidemiology at the Hannover Medical School. He also coordinates the Translational Infrastructure Epidemiology at the German Centre for Infection Research (DZIF).
What he says:
We have to keep these serious social measures as short and as low as possible, because they could potentially cause more illnesses and deaths than the coronavirus itself.
Although my focus is on infectious diseases, I believe that it is imperative that we consider the impact on other areas of health and society. We as a society must not focus solely on the victims of the corona virus.
We know that unemployment, for example, causes illness and even increased mortality. It can also drive people into suicide. Restricting freedom of movement is likely to have a further negative impact on public health.
It is not so easy to calculate such consequences directly, but they still happen and they can possibly be more serious than the consequences of the infections themselves.
– Interview for zdf.de, 29th March 2020
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Dr Gerd Gigerenzer is a German psychologist, professor of psychology and Director of the Harding Center for Risk Literacy at the Max Planck Institute for Human Development in Berlin.
What he says:
The 2009 swine flu epidemic killed hundreds of thousands, mostly in Africa and Southeast Asia. But in Europe, where the threat was comparatively small, the media updated the death toll and the number of suspected cases on a daily basis. In the United Kingdom, the government predicted that as many as 65,000 citizens might die from the disease. In the end, fewer than 500 died.
Predictably, such daily accounting triggered fear and led politicians to make hasty, ill-advised decisions – such as stockpiling medication – without examining the evidence. All eyes were focused on the new, unknown virus, and not on protecting people from more lethal threats, such as seasonal influenza, which in 2009 killed orders of magnitude more people than swine flu. It still does – as would be clear if the media bombarded us with hourly updates of the flu-related death toll.
Similarly, millions of people, particularly in developing countries, die from malaria and tuberculosis each year. And in the United States alone, hospital-acquired infections kill some 99,000 patients annually. Yet, these unlucky people get next to no attention.
Why are we more scared of what is less likely to kill us?
[…]
[W]hen swine flu spread, many governments followed the World Health Organization’s advice and stockpiled Tamiflu, a medication that was marketed to protect against the severe consequences of flu. Yet, many expert advisers to the WHO had financial ties to drug manufacturers, and there is still no evidence that Tamiflu is effective. The US wasted over $1 billion, and the UK over £400,000 ($522,000), on this medication – money that instead could have been invested in improving health care.
– Why What Does Not Kill Us Makes Us Panic, Project Syndicate, 12th March 2020
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BONUS: Dr Pietro Vernazza of Switzerland was featured in our first “experts list”, but he has since written four more articles on various aspects of the coronavirus, including testing programs, medical masks and if closing schools may be counter-productive.
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If you can find any other examples of noteworthy experts deviating from the mainstream narrative, please post them below. As always, this list would have been impossible to build without Swiss Propaganda Research. Follow their work and share widely. An indispensable resource.
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These experts reports are from rigth wing outlets: the spectator, the telegraph. Has it occured to you that they are playing the public. You don’t trust the guardian. Fair enough. Why these establishment rags? Not least because they are famously SUPPORTIVE of the govnt in charge. Why would they want us reading articles that say we should NOT not locked down if they are fascist supporters of the state/deep state?
Perhaps because the MSM refuse to publish any experts that dispute their narrative? The MSM doesn’t make any money off of herd immunity, but they’ll cash in plenty of vaccine advertising.
Why do you refer to the source as SWISS PROPAGANDA RESEARCH? They call themselves SWISS POLICY RESEARCH!
Unfortunately a lot of the people you posted here aren’t credible. HIV/AIDS is second only to the current corona virus scam, as being the most egregious crime committed against humanity in the annals of recorded history. You have a Professor from Oxford who is an expert on a ‘virus’ that doesn’t even exist.
There is no professor from Oxford mentioned in the above post. Perhaps this says a lot about the commenter’s claims (which aren’t backed up by any science).
interesting view from one of many doctors and virologists! Why the disconnect? What’s in it for a professional to risk their reputation???
Prof Knut Wittkowski wants to go for herd immunity as quickly as possible. Isn’t this what the UK policy was, early on? It didn’t work out so well as it can overwhelm health systems. In addition, we just don’t know what kind of immunity is conferred on those who catch the virus – how protective it is and how long any immunity lasts. So, to want it to spread as quickly as possible seems irresponsible. Some actions are needed to slow the spread, perhaps akin to how Sweden has handled it, though the jury is still out on that. I listened to part of his video (the link above doesn’t work, by the way, I found it here). A lot of what I heard in the first 10 minutes or so what quite wrong. For example, the US did almost nothing for more than a month after the first case… Read more »
If you had any clue about what you were talking about you will realize there is no pandemic nobody is dying other than people that are on their way out already so all this bullshit you were spewing is meaningless
I especially don’t understand all the railing and misinformation about hydroxychloroquine + azithromyacin in the U.S. especially from Dr Fauci and now Dr Bright. Dr. Raoult in the south of France has been having excellent results with it since February – about a .03% mortality rate so far, and that, I believe, also among people with pre-existing conditions. He also points out that poorer countries who have nothing else but that to use have also had extremely low mortality rates. Morocco was one example . Two other odd details is the fact that HCQ is counter-indicated for people with heart conditions, and yet has been in the US on just such cases, and since the drug has been around since 1934, this should be by now a well-known fact. It also needs to administered early on to be effective and yet it’s been used in the US mainly as “a… Read more »
Dr. Zach Bush gives a completely different perspective on the vast and complicated world of viruses.
Viruses, according to him, are constantly interacting with humanity.
When there is an imbalance, in the ecosystem between people and viruses is out of balance, then illness happens.
The viruses are there no matter what.
Most viruses show symptoms when people get exposed to pollution, are weak, etc.
I forgot to mention, the doctor’s talk begins around the 54 minute mark on this video.
What a coincidence that US scientists warned China in 2017 that the corona virus ‘could’ escape from their new 4 star security state of the art laboratory…..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-lab-studying-SARS-Ebola-Wuhan-outbreaks-center.html
Japan’s Demon Of BioWar Kawaoka Inserted HIV Force Multipliers Inside The Wuhan Virus. Here in Part 4 of this series on the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak, smoking gun evidence against microbiologist Yoshihiro Kawaoka has surfaced in an RNA analysis run by microbiologists Prashant Prashant and colleagues at the Indian Institute of Technology and The University of Delhi. The introductory remarks by the Indian research team are a masterpiece of understated dry wit: “The finding of four unique inserts in 2019 -nCOV (Wuhan coronavirus), all of which have identity and similarity to amino acid residues of key structural proteins of HIV-1, is unlikely to be fortuitous.” Have a sip of Assam tea while pondering how four GP120 and Gag protein strands from HIV, the virus associated with AIDS, just happen to be strategically located inside this SARS-modified virus. The key word here is “insert”, as in gene-engineered. Wuhan CoV was created in… Read more »
My last post was taken down. Who moderates freedom of speech on “because facts matter”. Dr Fauci and Dr Birx [virus experts to the Trump Administration] are members of a group called Pepfar. Incubated at the WHO and the UN it is the source of massive corruption along with Bill Gates and his fake science foundation. Amazing Polly on youtube, “We are being Plagued” shows in detail the structure of this corrupt group. Dr Fauci authorised Yoshihiro Kawaoke to carry on with his research into Virus plus HIV. To summarize, a decade ago at his lab in Wisconsin with generous funding from Japanese state institutions, Kawaoka was developing an “unstoppable flu”, secretly derived from an illegal exhumation of the Arctic frozen corpse of an Alaskan native who died in the 1918-19 influenza pandemic, which killed up to 80 million worldwide. I learned of Kawaoka’s reckless violations of science ethics from… Read more »
This is an interview with Swedish epidemiology Professor Johan Giesecke, advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Swedish strategy). Much in line with others cited here at OffG, he states among many other points that The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and how he has never seen an unpublished, non peer-reviewed paper have so much policy impact:
https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/
What happened to the “12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic” article?
Has it been “disappeared”?
Same place it always was: https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/
I’m also finding most of these voices in parallel. My diagnosis is organised panic not unlike a shaped charge to deliver (us to) a targeted control agenda which cannot be hidden and so must declare itself for what it is; fear driven control. The choice or accepting of love or fear can be disguised to seem opposite to fact. Mind reversal is the last refuge. War on virus? Yes but who do you think that is? Ask Prince Phillip! Don’t feed the Beast? Indeed – but don’t follow the finger of the accuser. Listen in the heart. Feed the seeds of embracing Life on Earth. They are not patented and can be trusted to copy right because they are shared I repost the following from a commenter on Kendrick’s bloc because I believe it deserves considering with regard to the effects of flu vaccinations on coronaviral – and other strains… Read more »
It strikes me that the Corona propaganda machinery may be compared to a battle ship. On top there is a bridge manned by officers who issue commands to the sailors. However, they do not design strategy. That is being developed by a few admirals somewhere in a safe bunker and transmitted to the lower echelon on a need to know basis. The big guns are located below the bridge and they hammer their message day and night. On the deck below there are smaller guns. These are meant to defend the battle ship against those who have armed themselves with independent conclusions/thoughts. On the deck below are the ammo bunkers where sailors prepare shells for the big and the small guns and where targets are selected. On the deck below there are the engines driven by the desire for the sweetest thing of all: Being able to tell somebody (or… Read more »
New Zealand’s models were “sexed up”
http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/Corona.pdf
~ IS THE UK CORONA-VIRUS ACT 2020 UNLAWFUL ? ? ?
The above has convinced me that this virus is nothing special and no deadlier to most people than most years of seasonal flu. But I think we have to look closely at how this all started and why, and what I am about to suggest has been my opinion more or less since this started. So as I have no authority as an anonymous poster on a website, firstly it is the general opinion of this very top epidemiologist who advises the Swedish government, that countries followed the example of China. https://order-order.com/2020/04/18/must-watch-swedish-epidemiologist-lays-swedens-thinking-video/ Now consider this quote off an article entitled “Silencing America as it prepares for war” by award winning journalist John Pilger, written as far back May 2016, so before President Trump got into office in Jan 2017: “On Obama’s watch, a second cold war is under way. The Russian president is a pantomime villain; the Chinese are not… Read more »
If people are giving negative ratings to a comment (as is their right under this system of commenting) it occurs to me that if they do not explain their reasons for downvoting the comment there is no reason for anybody to take it seriously, or even to be able to safely assume that they have even read the comment, so can’t possibly be able to pass a considered opinion on it.
Could be trolls. Your comment was awesome.
Neither upvoted nor downvoted, 1of7, but thought your comment very good and thought-provoking. My only area of disagreement is your belief that ‘electoral reform’, specifically PR, will solve anything. The majority of ‘democracies’ use some form of PR, much good it does them—Italy, Spain, they are all as messed up as any other, and currently all embracing the new totalitarianism. In Britain, non-mainstream parties and their supporters tend to favour some form of preferential voting to get their foot in the door, if not No.10; but in Australia there are calls to restore FPTP as their preferential voting keeps the non-mainstream out. Whether favouring or opposing PR or FPTP, along with supporting or opposing lowering/raising voting age or compelling voting, disenfranchising here and enfranchising there—all of this only illustrates the corrupting effect of democracy where we all just try to game the system in pursuit of our own ends. People… Read more »
Strong Conspiracy and Moderate Pseudoscience website that also promotes Russian propaganda. (D. Van Zandt 5/29/2019)
This website is part of the Russian propaganda machine. Don’t be fooled.
Here is the source for my comment above: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/
mediabiasfactcheck.com is heavily monetized, full of ads and injunctions to become a member, and use the term “pro-socialist” to describe off-guardian.
What is this? 1950 during the cold war? It is clearly an american suprematist website trying to oppose every opinion against the “great” american empire.
Even their CSS design shows it was made by government people with zero webdesign skills.
Basic “anti conspirationist” rhetoric, everywhere on this trap-website.
Further, they describe WikiLeaks as factual reporting as “MIXED” when they have a 100% accuracy record in over ten years of reporting. LMAO.
Don’t think you’ve yet included Professor Johan Giesecke, described as: “one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Swedish strategy), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and an advisor to the director general of the WHO”. He made a whole bunch of excellent statements about the panic, explaining Sweden’s approach, and criticising the British government’s panic response and the science behind it. Interview here: https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/ Also another important strand currently is the important suggestion that the immensely costly lockdowns have made no difference to the progress of the disease. This was picked up from the data by Israeli mathematics professor Isaac Ben-Israel and reported in the Times of Israel here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-israeli-prof-claims-simple-stats-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/ He is not a medic, but that’s beside the point – as a mathematician he’s an expert at studying datasets,… Read more »
Could it possibly be because the people dying in either case are not dying of infectious diseases at all or Covid19 in particular? It’s cancer, old age, pneumonia (which can be caused by rotten teeth etc), COPD, or maybe just the standard flu anyway. It could be something they catch in the hospital after they are admitted whilst at death’s door.
When you are very sick you can catch diseases off yourself. There is no need for anything to even “spread”.
Thank you for sharing
75 Expertenstimmen zu Corona http://blauerbote.com/2020/04/13/75-expertenstimmen-zu-corona/
Vernon Coleman (UK doctor and medical author) posted another YouTube video entitled “The lockdown remedy for coronavirus is deadlier than the disease. Dr Vernon Coleman explains why far more people will die from the so-called “cure” than the coronavirus.” on the 15th
~ IS THE UK CORONA-VIRUS ACT 2020 UNLAWFUL ? ? ?
I found this recently. Maybe I’ve just spent too long in isolation and want to believe something else, but according to this, deaths from flu in England, Scotland and N.I. were 372 in 2017/18. (Link below.) 2017/18 has previously been cited as a ‘terrible year’ for influenza deaths. It seems it was a terrible winter for hospitals. But not a bad one relatively speaking for flu. In fact there don’t seem to be that many deaths in the UK from flu at all according to government data Which does make me wonder, because if only 20% of the UK caught Covid19, and there was a mere 0.1% chance of dying from it, you’d still end up with 13,000 deaths. As I say, I’m probably starting to go mad. But 13k at 0.1% seems to produce quite a lot of deaths in comparison to regular flu stats. I’ve lost a central… Read more »
That is because of the stated death statistics in the UK (see beginning of text). Flu and pneumonia are not listed as death causes if there are some other underlying grave diseases like Cancer, Cold, Alzheimer (and that is the case for most deaths of influenza). In comparison Covid-19 is given as the death cause even when there would be other underlying causes/ diseases (as there almost always is).
In Germany there is c. 25 000 yearly deaths from the seasonal Influenza. That would be 0,1-0,5% depending on year or severity. Now they are calculating a letality (not mortality for the whole country) of similar or less magnitude for corona.
Awesome. Cheers. Become fatigued with so much info of late. That – plus the professor to Sweden having been interviewed today – clarifies a lot!
There is a vaccine against flu – there is NOT a vaccine against Covid-19. The two should not even be compared.
Compare it to the common cold then. That is a more apt comparison actually.
The death rates are similar. They are both caused by Coronaviruses. They both spread the same ways. They both have no vaccine.
The common cold is normally a mild illness that resolves without treatment in a few days (Source: Villanova.edu)
A vaccination against *which* kind of flu?
https://www.livescience.com/flu-shot-bad-match-influenza-b.html
As they say in political science, by analogy, you are always fighting the new war with the knowledge of the last war.
Flu is a moving target and as already noted above with reference to a peer-reviewed article, flu vaccines are arguably unhealthy.
The idea of vaccinating against flu can be understood as a component in the war on microbes, which is the foundation of all life. Worse than shooting yourself in the foot, it resembles removing your legs.
Intresting times, huh, indeed. So. off-g, what is happening as we speak, you are, been under attack, I have my opinions but they are more hooned into historical bollocks than anything else, since I my self have expirienced and is expiriencing falsifyed/falsifying my tribes history as we speak in the year of the lord 2020, and I hate people from the bottom of my hart those that continue to barf lies, continue to fake history and/or invents more bollocks to cover up their initial lies, as infinitum akaka an continuing circle jerk where I have focused on slamming that down as far I can and sometimes by temper takes the lead. Then we have some more aspects, I really found this article with the coments made by this people to be enlightening and just confirms the issue when you use critical thinking and lifts the carpet where everything is been… Read more »
Not the most inspiring of interviewers but valid points by Swedish epidemiologist Prof Johan Giesecke:
https://youtu.be/zh4tGKTHBD0
I think the views of Dr Malcolm Kendrick should be more widely known. Unlike the other “dissenting doctors” Dr Kendrick is a general practitioner in the NHS. He has acutally seen people dying, including eight in a period of seven days in a care home he visits. Large numbers of people do seem to be dying in care homes, largely because of government policy to keep beds free in hospitals for the general population. He says “COVID is a strange disease that kills people in a way that I have never witnessed before. In some cases, very quickly.” Obviously there is something new here. Does he think that making the whole country stay at home is the best way of dealing with it? No. This is what he says : “Contain, delay, research, mitigate. The UK has passed through “contain” and is now in “delay and mitigate”. Research sits in… Read more »
I first came across Malcolm Kendrick when I read his book “The Great Cholesterol Con” about 10 years ago or more, which was both instructive and entertaining. I think he may have made some small technical errors in that book, which unfortunately gave his critics some ammunition, although what they probably hated was the fact that he was basically correct, and they secretly suspected this themselves, but were afraid to admit it, since they’d been pushing a false paradigm for so long. I liked it when he wrote in that book: “If you don’t drink [alcohol], then start. Not on your own, but with your spouse or partner.” I think he was actually joking, which probably annoyed his enemies even more. I was less happy when he said “eat what you like and don’t worry about it”, because I think there is a link between diet and health, although most… Read more »
Jane, you state
. “The reality is that for anyone younger than about sixty, Covid-19 is only slightly more dangerous than suffering from influenza”
. do you wish to say that to the families of the NHS hospital workers who have died?
I am clear that this article is below the Guardian standard of accuracy and objectivity: I comment: two “UK experts” the first a media person and consultant histopathologist – the only patients he sees are dead ones – and the second one states (31 March) “In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc. I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number” – he is already wrong. and all the other experts (1 Swiss and 6 Germans – albeit one of the six Germans is New York based – the latter is clearly not a clinician; working in Rockefeller University in New York City – not a medical centre although next door to the New York Hospital – Cornell Medical Centre where I once worked) so the 7 non-UK experts are… Read more »
Lies, damn lies and statistics! A mark of a true troll; none of your love of numbers provides any real context. What is in it for you to push the exaggerated death counts for CoVid1984?
Protecting the cumulative decisions of the incompetent government medical authorities? What proportion of all these deaths are just CoVid1984, and not deaths from more compromising medical conditions, with only a +ive test for the PRESENCE of CoVid1984?
It looks like other commenters just had to ignore your trolling. I didn’t, because it is obvious you are here at the service of AUTHORITY, and not everyone.
John, Darryl: I serve no authority and no-one can even suggest that I troll no-one – certainly not I – said that the government’s data is accurate. what is more, this is what I wrote earlier: it is complicated: but Chris Whitty the CMO (Chief Medical Officer) and the government let us down very badly: did they read LANCET 31 January 2020? The most respected UK medical journal . . . In their role they should have. . . The LANCET Editor, Richard Horton, wrote in hindsight on the CMO’s failings on 28 March, recapping what had been written in the journal 8 weeks before: . . . . . . . “Based on their modelling of the Wuhan outbreak of COVID-19, Joseph Wu and his colleagues wrote . . . in The LANCET on Jan 31, 2020: . . “On the present trajectory, 2019-nCoV could be about to become… Read more »
Just FYI. Off-guardian is a Russian web site used to spread Russian propaganda (Source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/
Good God settle down Baker you’ve got your beer money. Go do some classwork now.
Yep, mediabiasfactcheck.com seems like a trustworthy source. Who are they? Who checks them?
… and are you not questioning your data??
John – not my data – government data – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105
“from countries where Covid-19 has been well kept at bay:” That is not true of Switzerland which has 3 times as many cases of Germany. Its very odd logic to say that German experts don’t count when they have by your own words kept it at bay. The reason for the lower German death rate is Doctors in Germany record Covid 19 deaths as deaths from the virus NOT WITH the virus as they should do, British authorities have admitted. When so many people have little or no symptoms at all its disingenuous to put it mildly to record all who test positive as Covid 19 deaths. Germany did not even go into a full stay at home lockdown either, only Bavaria and Saarland did. Germans seem to have kept their head while all around are losing theirs, the British have forgotten how be British, the media reporting is mainly… Read more »
er two UK “experts” – I am far from convinced. the first a media person and consultant histopathologist – the only patients he sees are dead ones – and the second one states (31 March) “In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc. I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number” – he is already so wrong. and all the other experts (1 Swiss and 6 Germans – albeit one of the six Germans is New York based – the latter is clearly not a clinician; working in Rockefeller University in New York City – not a medical centre although next door to the New York Hospital – Cornell Medical Centre where I once worked) so the 8 non-UK experts are (apart from the non-clinician in NYC) are from countries where Covid-19… Read more »
M Venning, I notice you do not use the descriptor ‘better than the previous day’ for reported deaths but rather ‘worse than 1 or 2 weeks ago’.
In other words you seem to be avoiding highlighting the seemingly obvious trend of declining numbers of late.
Look here Venning, why are you posting heresies on a site mired in the truth?
These explanations are very clear, I personally studied Biology to teaching level, majoring on epidemics and pandemics, the latter being the fraud in this case. It is time the media came clean, and published the truth.!
I find it more informative to read the original scientific publications and listening to virologists, for example:
TWiV 602: Coronavirus immunology with Stanley Perlman
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-602/
Meant to say, “even more informative”. I did not mean to be dismissive of this article in any way. I think you are doing great service.
Fascinating stuff. Definitely like listening to “the other side” as far as I’m concerned, but I found it very interesting, all the same. What struck me, mainly in the first half or so of the discussion, was that these ostensibly pro-vaccine type people seemed to be giving lots of evidence as to how unreliable and uncertain vaccines were. And then towards the end, in the context of “Covid-19”, one of them was saying quite happily that perhaps the ideal situation would be to find that the virus had spread widely throughout the whole population, mostly symptom-free leading to natural “herd immunity”, and without needing to use a vaccine, even though there might be one by then. (And incidentally confirming to me what I had always believed to be the case, that you can have herd immunity completely in the absence of any vaccine, contrary to the views of some pro-vaccine… Read more »
From the Guardian, no less: “An interesting study has emerged in the US which found that the number of people infected with coronavirus could be as much as 85 times higher than previously thought. The research from Stanford University, which was published on Friday, tested samples from 3,330 people in Santa Clara county, in California, and found the virus to be 50 to 85 times more common than official figures indicated. The study, the first large-scale one of its kind, has yet to be peer reviewed and was conducted by identifying antibodies in healthy individuals through a finger prick test, which indicated whether they had already contracted and recovered from the virus. At the time of the study, Santa Clara county had 1,094 confirmed cases of Covid-19, resulting in 50 deaths. But, based on the rate of people who have antibodies, it is likely that between 48,000 and 81,000 people… Read more »
The PCR test is a fraud. The CFR is a fraud. Euthanasia is mandatory behind the scenes and the deaths are being falsely recorded as SARS-COV-2 deaths. This is profoundly not just the old and sick. Not at all. Murder is happening under your eyes. Vast numbers. Don’t allow yourselves to be hospitalized. Don’t take a test. Warn those you care about. The worst case we anticipated is proving real.
An article worth flagging up, I think:
Bill Gates’s Charity Paradox
A Nation investigation illustrates the moral hazards surrounding the Gates Foundation’s $50 billion charitable enterprise.
By Tim Schwab
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundation-philanthropy/
Philanthropy – the fine you pay for staying out of jail.
I think we should not have sex until there is an AIDS vaccine. I’m still waiting. It’s been 40 years.
You’re missing nothing!
An extremely valid point.
Surely wearing a condom is sexual social distancing ? Seems to have worked fairly well.
I have been following this brilliant website for a while and I am agreeing with all the facts about the false numbers being swung at us by the media but please can someone explain to me, why would our country push for weeks/months of lockdown if it potentially will shatter our economy?
I’ll try. I think there are several things you could say about why they’re pushing for a lockdown if it will shatter the economy. – At a global level they’re not really interested in a capitalistic economy, but only in big semi monopolies. Microsoft and Amazon are two good examples. They will profit regardless. And if they don’t they will be bailed out. – Shorting, or short-selling, is when an investor borrows shares and immediately sells them, hoping he or she can scoop them up later at a lower price, return them to the lender and pocket the difference. With short-selling you can profit from a crash, especially if you have foreknowledge of what’s on the agenda. – All small and medium companies will be bankrupt by the end of this and will be up for grabs for the big companies. – Much like most covid deaths having underlying serious… Read more »
Let’s not forget that government backed loans to small businesses to keep them afloat are a “no brainer” to banks who will get 3.75%+ interest on loans the government (READ: TAXPAYER) guarantees if the borrower goes bust. This is why the Wall Street bankers told President Trump we should wait until the public is ready to get out and work: the initial business loans have been scarfed-up and the banks want more guaranteed loans to sell; more time, more panic, more businesses having to stay shut means more demand for more loans and more money to the bankers.
This happening at a time when banks were still pretty stingy on giving loans because of the previous collapse (though they were bailed out): they were not making as much money as they wanted to, and a loan without a risk (read: FREE MONEY) is what they were waiting for.
You might like to watch this video and see what you think. This interview has been linked elsewhere on this site recently, and Ernst Wolff presents his arguments very persuasively.
An important interview. Thanks for posting.
I would add to “thankful reader’s” comment that there are a lot of coincidences which come out astoundingly well for “the authorities” during this ridiculous farce: The Gilets Jaunes in France, and elsewhere, were gaining strong traction with the general population, both because of their reasonable claims and their non-violent methods. People like Macron were beginning to fear them, to the point where sheer vindictiveness was beginning to show in his methods for dealing with them. That was reducing his popularity – which was looking very dodgy to start with – even more, to the point where people in the street were quite prepared to make statements like, “The people hate him.” Also the appalling corruption within the WHO, the IMF, the media and politics in general has become so obvious that a smokescreen became desperately needed. So a CoVid panic fits the bill perfectly. Just look at the news… Read more »
In my opinion ‘thankful reader’ nails it. For more info, this guy appears to be on the money….
I’m inclined to the cockup theory, rather than the conspiracy theory of history.
I think it’s down to economic and scientific illiteracy on the part of those we have chosen (?) to be our rulers.
(Not that there are not some conspiracies, of course, but I’m still not convinced that this is one of them. There may however, be a lot of opportunism (“never waste a good crisis”, etc) goin on.
You don’t go for the “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely” theory? I do – David Rockefeller and Bill Gates have persuaded me. https://stovouno.org/2020/04/03/covid-19-bill-gates-engineers-a-global-crisis-from-seasonal-flu/
Watch before it’s taken down https://youtu.be/F8pVwl-9THU
Good talk
https://youtu.be/F8pVwl-9THU
good knowledge – Thanks…..as so difficult to locate honesty in the Small Time msm and Lilliputian Government propoganda apparatus …and anyway, who in their right mind would listen to those insignificant lightweights, primitive has-beens as they are.
To counter our likely and inescapable confirmation biases, and in keeping with the scientific method for supporting beliefs, are there equally independent, credible, and reputable experts in the field who are voicing opinions and reaching conclusions that are contrary to (i.e., falsify) those featured here. Similarly, are there sites that are showcasing relevant, authentic, and valid data and information which contradict those so excellently curated at the Swiss Propaganda Watch site? If such a compelling opposing perspective on the COVID-19 phenomenon can indeed be found, which admittedly is doubtful, OffGuardian can provide readers with its measure by compiling and presenting an easily digestible review and juxtaposition of what would clearly be two extremely divergent views of presumably the same, singular reality. I for one do not believe the conclusions reached here so far are false, or that an equally compelling opposite stance can be soundly established at this point, but… Read more »
Have you seen such a counter case made? No. The reason is simple. It can’t be made. The governmental response to the false pandemic is entirely political and backed by specious reasoning or ambiguous wording by professionals bribed or blackmailed into giving their approval to measures they know to be insane.
I wish it were possible to offer a different interpretation, but it is not. This is a coordinated plan, global in scale. The forces ranged against science and reason on this are formidable and frightening. Lives have been threatened directly and indirectly.
Those scientists best placed to reveal the truth are bullied into silence, gagged, monitored. So much is riding on the success of this play.
Virus Guy: “Have you seen such a counter case made? No. The reason is simple. It can’t be made.”
Right on. I’ve watched and waited 19 years as “experts” debated the causes of collapse of 3 steel reinforced structures at the World Trade Center complex in 2001. Even when collapse can’t be explained beyond a controlled demolition, the “debate” goes on, and on, and on.
The world’s economies have been decaying ever since, and the bread and circus show is now over. The Covid-19 fiasco is all about planned economic failure and the permanent establishment of a police state. Most readers here know this…
I too have been seeking this for a balanced view but have yet to find a body of evidence that reinforces the media narrative
I haven’t been following the coronavirus much, but the U.K. death figures are only from hospitals, and not everywhere, so there is one reason to believe they are being under-reported. I have no view on whether the numbers are being inflated or deflated, but there is a case to be made for the latter: it is not blatantly false from first look. The Moon of Alabama takes the view that the coronavirus is more deadly than the flu, although I have not investigated its claims.
The Off Guardian and Moon of Alabama have gotten into Twitter debates about the coronavirus as well, for those who wish to investigate further.
As with all propaganda induced panics the Coronavirus has served its purposes and is even now beginning to be wound down. Unfortunately what lies ahead for the masses will be much worse with probably permanently reduced circumstances . Life will be lived small in the 21st century, at best.
Willem,
I know this will interest you.
There’s been a bit of publicity that black and ethnic minority People – in Europe and the US – are apparently dying ‘of covid-19’ at higher rates than one would expect. I immediately thought of Vitamin D. A Person with a darker skin living in temperate to cold latitudes is obviously at a disadvantage as far as the formation of Vitamin D from sunlight is concerned, especially if they are forced to remain inside.
A point which applies to the general population too.
According to the Daily Telegraph 44% fo NHS docdtors and 24% of nurses fall into this category.
Good idea, thanks!
You may be aware of research currently underway into whether there is a correlation between BCG vaccinations and immunity from the more serious manifestations of Covid19.
https://presse.inserm.fr/en/the-bcg-vaccine-against-covid-19-really/38920/
All nonsense. There is a blizzard of misinformation being pumped out in an effort to conceal the bare truth that covid19 is an inferred and fraudulent pandemic built on fraudulent science.
I myself don’t believe that Covid19 is anything more than a seasonal flu variant. It may simply be the case that those of us who have had the BCG vaccine in childhood are equally as immune to the potentially deadly effects of severe seasonal flu. So in that sense the research could well be revealing, depending on what it concludes.
It does appear that a significant proportion of those who succumb fatally to the infection or ‘with’ the infection (as they might well do with any other seasonal flu) are older people from ethnic groups, and these people are less likely to have had the BCG vaccine in childhood. Presumably that is what prompted the research into a possible correlation.
Put it like this, I would prefer this correlation to be proved than to face the prospect of a new, untested mandatory vaccine being rolled out!
You thought Vitamin D, and sane people thought social and economic inequality, poor diet and lack of medical prevention.
Because Vit D deficiency is correlated to poor diet, social and economic inequality, lack of medical prevention and political malaise.
Supplementation above 3,000iu’s per day ought to be mandatory.
The Italians are perhaps less to be believed, they are artificially inflating the numbers in order to blackmail “Eurobonds” from the Nordic countries and restructure their corrupt and highly indebted economy. Should Merkel not send German tax money to Rome, the old “Nazi” club will be unwrapped, it always works. Their alleged deaths are easy to explain: They have the highest air pollution in Europe, traditionally living in extended families where there is a high risk of infection. Their hygienic conditions leave much to be desired. In Italy, the resistance to antibiotics is said to be 40 percent, in Germany less than 5 percent. In Germany, 20,000 people die every year from “ordinary” influenza, another 20,000 from multi-resistant germs, which they contract in hospitals. But the Orwellian alarmists and hysterics have never seen this as a reason for quarantine and martial law. It’s strange that homeless people in Boston are… Read more »
I’ve seen this with my eyes in San Diego, Calif., a huge older homeless population, but few problems. There was a hepatitis scare several times, that gave a taste of quarantine, as many churches emptied their holy water fonts and baptismals, and only gave Communion under bread, but no wine.
Which, unlike this, was ignored by some churches, depending on the degree of risk areas and paranoia.
That gave some preparation for this, but not much. At least the idea.
One wonders how many factors we guess, intelligently, but don’t fully know. Some of this seems very covert, using the old “need to know” disclaimer/cover.
I don’t even want to know how many billions more litres of drinking water it takes every day to wash your hands 30 times a day. Probably people now shower three times a day and destroy their skin flora.
Now, of course, nobody wants to live like homeless city dwellers. But rural living was once the most effective protective factor, the purifying pollution. Neurodermatitis is a typical consequence. It has long been known medically that we acquire immunity through contact with other people.
Prof. Haditsch (video below) even said that just a few years ago pneumonia was considered a welcome grace to save old and sick people from their agony. Now one tries to keep them alive artificially, which of course fails.
I was not aware of Prof. Haditsch prior to today. In 2015, at age 65, in a visit to my physician, she said that I needed the pneumonia vaccination. I told her “pneumonia is nature’s way of dealing with the elderly”. She laughed nervously, then adamantly insisted that I receive the shot.
Now I do not visit a medical facility unless I need stitches. Avoiding such annoyances as unnecessary shots and tests.
I have been social distancing for years. That used to be considered being antisocial, now it’s the mandatory in thing!
In 1971-72 I worked in a geriatric care facility in the terminal ward.
Bedridden, heavily medicated, is no way to spend your remaining time on earth.
My grandmother was constantly active, pushing her walker around when she was over 90, just to send me a letter. Then she fell over in her apartment and ended up in the hospital, with the doctors saying she could never go back to her apartment. Three days later, she was dead on New Year’s Eve, 2013.
What you “need”, only you know. Due to a “blood pressure crisis” I was put a wire into my heart 25 years ago. Later I learned that I was a guinea pig in a university hospital.
Martin, all this hand washing is pointless, absolutely pointless. I wash my hands as I would any other day of the week. Also, the gel used is harmful to the skin.
The evil joke is that people not only wash their hands, but also all the products they buy in the supermarket. You never now.
Meanwhile in NL, our prime minister is talking in the media that all people who are sick should see a GP and that in terms of the ‘corona crisis’ mistakes were made with the measures. The types of mistakes he mentions are actually completely unrelated to the mistakes that were made (closing a country for a virus that is as ‘dangerous’ as seasonal flu), but apparently we are now allowed to openly talk about mistakes that were made, and that healthcare should open its gates for all people who are sick.
That’s a beginning.
I also think the politicians have to reduce the measures in order to keep the population ‘passive’.
Would be interesting to know if politicians in other countries have received a similar memo and are therefore talking the same talk as our prime minister now does with the media.
What mistakes were mentioned then?
I only skimmed through the article (since it was from the revolting msm). But he admitted that people in old people’s homes were dying faster than usual and that this was partly explained by the government who put their interest in getting not too many people on the ICU by ‘flattening’ the curve and forgot the old people’s homes.
To balance this mistake, he also said the government made a mistake by not protecting health care workers, and possibly also the population by not offering all of them… mouth masks to prevent from catching this terrible disease.
As you say, they may miss the crux of the matter but they aren’t unreasonable points.
It does make me wonder what bureaucrats and contigency planners get paid for.
I’m not sure that the government forgot Care Homes. The effect of ” freeing up ” around 26 k of beds ( meaning same number of staff with same number of beds ) meant that many of the 26k were slung back into the Community possibly complete with an untested/detected Covid -19 infection to pass on to the already flu co-morbid other frail people at the homes or in their own homes. They were not tested either in hospital or out of it. I don’t know about anyone else but we surely must be Pseffed out with all the numbers flying about. The media have played this don’t scare the children and horses game since the start ( certainly in the UK ) and it doesn’t help that the UK have the most right wing set of bastards we’ve witnessed so far. So don’t be surprised that spinning of numbers… Read more »
Our government (UK) will never be this honest.
Hear! hear! in Belgium Jan Jambon, Minister-President of Flanders, put the exact same speech on social media: We all make mistakes, we too are only human, etc. And this morning a headline: “We relied too much on the scientists…” In my mind there is no doubt that this whole shebang is orchestrated worldwide by worldwide Powers That Be, that our local politicians are only lackeys of this system, and that what passes for science is utterly bankrupt. “Science” is the new religion, and the abuses follow… From ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cbc-instructs-kids-how-shut-down-their-parents-conspiracy-theories “A reporter who adopts a stereotypical fake ‘news reporter’ accent which normal people don’t use when they talk to each other tells the viewer that the conspiracy theory linking 5G to coronavirus is false. A doctor wearing a white lab coat inside what appears to be his own home (to stress faux authority) is then presented to call the conspiracy “completely… Read more »
The politicians seem now to be rather trapped by their own narrative, as I suspect that at least some of them must be aware of what a balls-up they have made of it.
The decisions they have made over the past month or so, have probably been the most expensive decisions ever made outside of wartime and declarations of war.
For a fraction of the costs that have been incurred, all members of the vulnerable groups could have been protected and pampered for the rest of their lives, while the rest could have developed herd immunity.
Macron’s TV broadcast to the nation a few nights ago was delivered in a similarly apologetic frame. He said mistakes have been made in how the current crisis had been handled, admitted to mistakes on his own part and promised a return to the old path once the crisis is over. 37 million people tuned. How many believe him is very much open to discussion.
South Africa
DEADLIER THAN THE BUBONIC PLAGUE If a patient has terminal cancer, motor neurone disease or another serious disease, and contracts COVID-19 that’ll be recorded as the cause of death. So that means, if a person enters an emergency room with fatal gunshot wounds lingers for a few days and dies from an upper-respiratory infection their death certificate will cite COVID-19 as the cause of death. Will all murders and suicides be designated as COVID fatalities? If you slip on a banana peel crack your skull and go into an irreversible coma will the medical examiner say you died from the coronavirus. Ultimately, will all 155,000 deaths recorded each day worldwide be attributed to COVID-19. THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM The real shocker or elephant in the room is that annually 99,000 Americans die from “healthcare acquired infections.” Infections, run rampant throughout hospitals and doctors’ offices. What’s ironic is that this… Read more »
Great post thanks for it.
I heard a report from the BBC this morning. It involved some researcher from the USA, who it was happily announced worked ‘with’ Gilead. She aggressively denounced the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, one of which she claimed, was involved in a medical trial that killed 48 participants. I can find no other mention of this hideous death-toll by Googling. Then she went on to sing the praises of remdesivir, a drug, no doubt HUGELY expensive, made by the very same Gilead. Coincidentally, the next news bulletin reported a surge on Wailing Wall Street caused, in part, by Gilead’s announcement of a wonder, anti-CoVid 19 medication, remdesivir. Talk about ‘spooky synchronicity’.
Charlotte Russe: Excellent! The elderly have been traumatized and euthanized by pharmaceutical ghouls for decades – as CEO’s float into retirement on golden parachutes.
I agree that persons collecting paychecks within mainstream media should be first candidates for vaccinations… Maybe they’d quit lying, or preferably, just shut up…
Thanks, most people don’t realize hospitals and nursing homes are petri dishes for the most virulent bacteria. Frequently, it’s the infection from a minor surgical procedure that kills thousands of patients. Pneumonia, is also a common cause of death among the elderly in nursing homes.
India:
The exercise is showing complete compliance in Europe and only limited protests in the USA, we are releasing information into the media that it is a hoax yet no protests are appearing. We will press ahead to the next stage of App surveillance unless challenged. Operations in china and India are cancelled due to political protests.
“The exercise is showing complete compliance in Europe and only limited protests in the USA, ”
I think that as economic pain starts to bite, that that is likely to change.
In the USA it seems so far to be the Michigan Militia, with a few people bringing guns along. However you are likely to get more disobedience and even protests the longer lockdown goes on, which is why I suspect lockdowns will end soon.
Regarding the UK gov press conference today, one question that was not asked.
Minister:
Will there be any country left to save by the time you come up with a vaccine for what is, for the vast majority of the population, a mild case of flu ?
Many of those pinning their hopes on a vaccine have no inkling of what an undertaking that is.
Lots of resources have been thrown at producing a vaccine against the common cold – also a corona virus – over the last few decades, with no success.
Given the amount of lying going on from our governments, are we sure it matters to them if it works or not.
The only way the UK can exit the house arrest is with a vaccine. so one and a half years imprisonment. Our mistake was staying at home.
That simply is not true.
I think you need to be a bit more grown up and realise that the evidence is piling up against Billy Gates and his vaccine mantra.
Any specific ways it will be pretty clear to the public?
Sorry my bad, I was quoting government in the UK.
Yeah, the evidence is piling up but who(no pun intended) is listening? I will say that this is doing more to turn people on to the anti-vac/pro science movement than would have happened organically.
Yes, but I think unfortunately you could present Joe Public with the most compelling and irrefutable evidence showing the reality of the situation, but they will still think the lockdown is required and they need to avoid each other like the plague.
It’s collective insanity on par with religion.
My neighbour is a genuinely intelligent guy, but he has bought into the propaganda. No matter what arguments and evidence I present to him, I can see in his face that he just doesn’t want to believe it – won’t even consider the other side of the coin.
I’m sure most people are like him, apart from being intelligent.
I think being really good at taking orders doesn’t equate to the real intelligence needed to decipher what’s going on..
Intelligent or an educated fool?
I assumed jack(jim) was being ironic.
is this comment being misconstrued ?….Is it not – the people (as usual) empowering the “Guv’nors”….to a point where they wont return freedoms unless needled….as said – a mistake.
not too late to correct the gaffe.
Jack(Jim) – Strange thing is, virus’s, as some of the scientists have said, have no immunity therefore a vaccine is worthless. You don’t get a vaccine to prevent the common cold and that is a Covid Virus – yes, you can get a flu jab but, apparently, some people with the vaccine still get the flu! Our Government has backed itself into a corner with this and have no idea how to get out of it. Mostly, they are talking BS and making it up as they go along. Since the Cabinet are nothing more than a bunch of power mad pathological liars we can’t believe a word they say. The narrative keeps changing on a daily basis. There is something far more sinister going on which I am sure is designed to help the incredibly rich and to deprive us of our civil liberties and rights and, so far,… Read more »
The easy way out is to do a phased relaxing of laws to “boost herd immunity”. Allow 2 people in cars. Send kids to school first, then allow sports like Tennis, then etc etc.
Then just allow people to violate the laws and then just one way quietly say the lockdown worked and thanks everyone for being so good we’ve beaten it!
Anyway, I’m just demonstrating that there is a way for them to get out of it whilst saving face. If we are too hard on them they will double down and get their revenge on us by going nuts with this.
That’s assuming your govt is not EVIL and hell bent on killing everyone with dodgy vaccines and/or giving us the mark of the beast.