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Why I'm Ashamed I Voted Remain

by Stephen Durkan, via XXY

Brexit-jpg
I voted Remain on June 23rd, 2016, and now I am ashamed of it.
Weird, is it not? Especially since, being Scottish, I should be trumpeting my own intellectual and spiritual superiority over the fascist morons, the xenophobes and all those other knuckle-draggers.
So why am I ashamed? To explain, I need to take you back to the day of the referendum.
It was raining, of course. I had accepted that I was going to cast my Remain vote with as much enthusiasm as Boris cast his. I trawled through the endless opinions on Facebook, and I began to feel uneasy about the comments I was seeing from fellow Remainers. There were two comments in particular that caused me to pause. One was from the usually brilliant science writer Ben Goldacre, who wrote a long, self-righteous, patronising and downright insulting post explaining how the Leave campaign was using language for ‘losers’ and how Brexiteers were intentionally harming families economically – which, of course, he has no proof for (as a science-minded person, he should really know better).
The second comment was from the band Fat White Family, who were stating that everyone should vote Remain so that they don’t have to get a visa when travelling through Europe. This completely ignored the concept of the good of wider society, as if there really was no such thing – we are all Thatcherites now,  even (or should that be especially?) the rebel poseurs of Rock and/or Roll. This contempt coupled with selfishness was replicated in various other comments sprayed across the social media sphere, and it got me thinking: am I on the right side? I shrugged it off and cast my vote whilst reciting the words ‘And here’s Prime Minister Boris Johnson’, and I forgot about it.
The next day I woke up, and it had happened. It was a shock that nobody saw coming and there was a dark haze descending as people realised the future is completely unknown. The pound was falling, the government was dissolving, and you would have been forgiven for thinking that the world was swallowing itself whole. But we should have seen this coming; because this is what happens when you ignore vast swathes of the working class for twenty-five years; sooner or later, they will encroach upon your comfort zone, and the wall we have built that insulates us from the profound cracks in our society will eventually be breached. The correlation between how well-off an area is and its referendum decision is startling (at least in England and Wales it is). For many people who voted Leave, there has never been any hopes or any dreams, the future has always been unknown, and life is constantly covered in fog. This vote provided them with a chance to make themselves heard in a way no other recent election had.
The reaction to the vote completely solidified that niggling feeling of doubt I had about my Remain vote. Leave voters were called fascists, morons, and all sorts of other disgusting insults. The tone of self-righteous superiority was suffocating, the calls for a second referendum were exasperating (we like democracy, except when there is a result that we don’t like – how very E.U. of you!), and then there was the over-the-top romanticisation of what is essentially a bureaucratic trade and labour deal that serves corporate interests far more than it does the ordinary people of Liverpool, Leverkusen or Liege. People were shedding tears for a union that plunged the entire nation of Greece into a depression for the sake of a few German and French banks.
The E.U. had suddenly acquired an almost religious power. The fact is that for towns like Oldham, Boston and Merthyr Tydfil, large-scale immigration and globalisation does not mean multicultural community groups, Portuguese cafes and discussing cultural differences with your student friends from Sweden and Belgium. To these people, who have struggled with the decline of their industrial jobs, it means constant flux, it means change they did not ask for, it means losing things, and it means more people to compete with for the jobs that were already thin on the ground. But no one since the referendum wants to confront this. Indeed, as Ben Goldacre suggested, these are the ‘losers’; the people who are mocked routinely by clever-clever Oxbridge comedians on panel shows and sitcoms, the people who have to put up with their towns being the butt of jokes, the people who have been systematically ignored as the sophisticates turn a blind eye and refuse to look up from their iPads in the local Starbucks to see the suffering that may be necessary to provide us with these vapid pleasures.
The inequality gap has grown so wide that there are students in London who genuinely cannot fathom why a poor young person living in Rochdale might not see the benefits of a gap year travelling around Eastern Europe. And why should they be able to understand the poor? They have absolutely zero reference points they can consult to understand the plight of the working class in Britain. They are more likely to empathise with a Brooklyn hipster than they are with a Burnley plumber.
And of course there are racists, I am not denying that, and the rise of racist incidents should be challenged with no compromise from all sides. But this animosity comes from somewhere, and it seems to me that most people do not want to understand and empathise, they just want to treat these people like some sort of inferior species who should be excluded from the democratic process (as our friends at Fat White Family helpfully suggested). Of course, these people are uneducated! That is what happens when you have to work fifteen hours a day just to scrape by and pay rent – there is literally no time to read a Guardian article and then recite it as fact to your friend on the way to the restaurant. Poverty and constant stress have an effect on people’s brains and on their outlooks.
The Scottish rap artist (yes, they do exist) Loki made a video explaining that people who lived in deprived communities are living in an environment of constant stress and thus will be more antagonistic towards immigrants as they watch their libraries, their community centres and their high streets all disappear for no clear reason. The propaganda pamphlets (or tabloids, as they are most commonly known) seize upon these vulnerable people and bombard them with scare stories about the immigrants. This whirlwind of disaffection, manipulative tycoons and the profit motive has created a breeding ground for hatred and fear. Surely our hostility would be better directed towards the rich white men who are benefiting from the misery of the ‘losers’. I refuse to attack the weak. It is a habit that we have grown far too accustomed to – we blame the poor for being poor, the homeless for being homeless, the disabled for being disabled. Our favourite TV shows victimise poor, untalented and desperate people; we have been well-trained by the media, yet we attack those who have fallen for anti-immigrant scare stories at the same time. I am ashamed. I feel it in the marrow of my bones.
So what is it going to be? Do we want democracy or do we want the self-selecting intelligent vanguard deciding for the rest? Are we going to drift further into some sort of social apartheid where poor people get driven farther and farther out of cities and become secluded in ghost towns with the lines of communication between them and the educated middle-class cutoff? Or are we going to speak to each other? There is no easy answer to the multitude of problems we face now. However, I do believe we should be opening ourselves to some difficult questions that lead us outside our comfortable bubbles. We have to understand why people are angry about immigration and we have to fix our fractured communities.
What certainly will not help is demonising large sections of the population who already feel like they are being attacked from all angles. If you push people far enough, they will have no choice but to push back. Let’s talk. Let’s listen to the other point of view. Let’s try to understand where they are coming from. Let’s admit it is possible that we might be wrong about some things, that we might be recycling what we hear from our own biassed sources. If we do not liberate ourselves from our comfortable groups, then there is a hard rain that is a-gonna fall. The bubble will burst. And you (yes you, Fat White Family and your ilk) will have a lot more than visa applications to worry about.


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Categories: Brexit, democracy, EU, latest, UK
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David S Herz
David S Herz
May 11, 2023 9:49 PM

So this is how you intend to begin the discussion”Let’s talk. Let’s listen to the other point of view. Let’s try to understand where they are coming from. Let’s admit it is possible that we might be wrong about some things, that we might be recycling what we hear from our own biassed sources.” And this is how you end your piece: ” Fat White Family and your ilk.”
And you say this without irony? Don’t see loads of tolerance or willingness to engage in legitimate rhetorical exchange.

Nadia
Nadia
Nov 13, 2016 9:50 AM

I certainly agree that a class of voters have been neglected and that this in part lead them to voting for Brexit. But the idea that the privileged voted remain and that the poor and worthy voted leave is a tabloid view of the argument and sidesteps the real issues. The question is whether leaving the EU will actually help these people because all the indications are that it won’t. Personally I think we should all move past what we actually voted because there was a lot of misinformation around the referendum and as time goes on we will know more about what life will really look like outside the EU – this is why it is essential to have a debate in parliament as well as a national debate – and also because it is so divisive. In the absence of a PM who would try to unite us we need to start doing it ourselves!

KT Parker
KT Parker
Nov 8, 2016 12:29 PM

Being called a ‘thick little Englander’ for being swayed by tabloid rhetoric and/or Leave lies (£350m per week to the NHS; the whole of Turkey about to descend on us, etc., etc.) is hardly equivalent to being called a remoaning traitor or an enemy of the people and receiving rape and death threats.
To be fair to the author, the extent of a (hopefully minority) element of Leave voters’ continued vociferous campaign to intimidate those who voted Remain and to stifle the debate and the scrutiny crucial to preventing our democracy from veering towards dictatorship probably wasn’t fully evident by July 23rd.
As a working class woman who improved her life by making use of EU Treaty Article 18 rights to live and work in other countries, I’m not sure how depriving me of my EU citizenship and thus my livelihood, which is dependent upon it, improves the lot of those “left behind” – especially as I am now going to have to return to England and compete with them for a job.
It’s also worth noting that much of what is blamed on the EU is in reality the result of policy failure at a local and national level. Sadly, it looks as if Brexit will be used as a cover for even more heartless Tory policies that disadvantage the working classes even more.

BOD111
BOD111
Nov 12, 2016 1:16 AM
Reply to  KT Parker

“Being called a ‘thick little Englander’ for being swayed by tabloid rhetoric and/or Leave lies (£350m per week to the NHS; the whole of Turkey about to descend on us, etc., etc.) is hardly equivalent to being called a remoaning traitor or an enemy of the people and receiving rape and death threats”. Actually it is exactly equivalent. (Notwithstanding the fact that nobody claimed the NHS was going to get £350m per week). Please let me know who these rape victims are by the way. “To be fair to the author, the extent of a (hopefully minority) element of Leave voters’ continued vociferous campaign to intimidate those who voted Remain and to stifle the debate and the scrutiny crucial to preventing our democracy from veering towards dictatorship probably wasn’t fully evident by July 23rd”. I think this is a good example of why offguardian was set up in the first place. The ability to claim the complete opposite of the truth is what marks the Graun out these days. It’s the remainers that are trying to intimidate others and subvert democracy. To claim otherwise is utterly laughable. “As a working class woman who improved her life by making use of EU Treaty Article 18 rights to live and work in other countries, I’m not sure how depriving me of my EU citizenship and thus my livelihood, which is dependent upon it, improves the lot of those “left behind” – especially as I am now going to have to return to England and compete with them for a job”. Well done you for lifting yourself above your fellow chav scum. (And as a mere woman no less). I’m sure your chav scum parents are very proud. If you’re as talented as you think you are then I’m sure your employer and… Read more »

Johnny Ersatz-Culture
Johnny Ersatz-Culture
Nov 7, 2016 1:54 PM

I’m sure lots of remain voters cast their vote for reasons as shallow as yours, Stephen. You seem to have adopted every single leave cliche wholesale over the last 5 minutes months, or did you save time and do that on 24 June because you just do hate being on the ‘losing’ side. I have every sympathy with the poor, disenfranchised and powerless people all over this country who are living in misery, but they are living that way BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF THEIR OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENT, and the EU has absolutely nothing whatever to do with their plight. So, as a protest vote they’ve scored one massive own goal, because the Tories are simply going to shaft them even more if we leave the EU. And if any leave votes voted because ‘they have issues with immigration’ (see above for real culprits of bad access to housing, education and health care) then they ARE stupid, igorent racists and I don’t think their poverty is an excuse.

BOD111
BOD111
Nov 12, 2016 12:27 AM

“igorent racists”
The irony.

Paulo_uk
Paulo_uk
Oct 24, 2016 12:01 PM

And how will Brexit help the working class? By enthroning the Tories for a generation? Those that voted Leave in the working class are in for a rude awakening.

Frank
Frank
Oct 20, 2016 10:39 AM

I wrote the following immediately prior to the EU referendum: What is the European Union For? After all the initial eu(ro)phoria and hopes placed upon the original concept of a non-aligned, social-democratic Euro-bloc, the reality has turned out somewhat differently writes Frank In a Chartist pamphlet written in 2011 – Europe: The Unfinished Project – I wrote, ‘’At the present time the EU project seems to be stuck in no-man’s land, unable to press ahead with full political integration, or retreat back into a northern European protectionist Deutschmark zone, and leaving the peripheral member states to the tender mercies of unfettered, globalized capitalism. However there seems to be a sufficient residue of the original EU idealism in the present stage of development to persevere further with the political struggle taking place.’’ (Ibid, page 19) I believe that this view, justifiable and plausible enough at the time of writing, has now become difficult to sustain. And the reason for this came in the next sentence, viz. ‘’One only has to consider the Anglo-American alternatives (to the Euro model) and globalization more generally to make this choice.’’ This was, however, based on the tacit assumption that the Euro model of capitalism was somehow fundamentally different from the Atlanticist model, a paradigm exemplified by the US/UK axis. In the fullness of time this has, unfortunately, turned out to be a fundamental misconception. The UK of course has always been bound hand and foot to the US in terms of both foreign and economic policy with the ending of the system of imperial preference demanded by the US as the quid pro quo for the American loan negotiated by Keynes in 1946; next came the American intervention in the Suez crisis in 1956 which effectively ended any independent UK foreign policy. This dog-like devotion… Read more »

Mike
Mike
Aug 26, 2016 7:28 PM

As it happens, Goldacre is quite often self-righteous, patronising, and insulting, and by no means always as scientific as he likes to pretend. But that aside…. ….I had always been very sympathetic towards the European movement, and was glad when Heath took us into the EEC (yes I am that old). My views were somewhat coloured by emotion and idealism (“no more war in Europe…” etc), and also persuaded by some of the economic arguments of the time. I became slightly worried that we had signed the Maastricht Treaty when very few people really understood its implications (and still don’t, clearly), even quite intelligent ones. However, I was even persuaded at one period that it might be a good idea for us to join the Euro. The crisis in the Eurozone put paid to that (and funny how you can find almost no people now who admit to having been in favour…). But what started my real Euroscepticism was the treatment of Greece, and I know I am not alone in that. I’m not a little Englander, and am certainly no UKipper (quite the opposite), but the more research and reading I did, the more sceptical I became. The only thing that stopped me voting Leave was the thought of being classed as being in the same camp as the racists and fascists and right-wing fruitcakes. Which is crazy really, as I was aware there was a perfectly respectable left-wing case to be made for Leave – but it got hardly any airtime, sadly. And Paul Mason was not much help. So, I watched the results, suitable anaesthetised by vin rouge (I said I was no little Englander), and there came that moment when we all realised that, bloody hell, it’s going to be Leave! Could hardly believe it. And… Read more »

Neo-Pelagius
Neo-Pelagius
Aug 7, 2016 5:33 PM

Reblogged this on Blinded by the Darkness and commented:
The reason why I don’t regret voting leave …

Vicky Wheeler
Vicky Wheeler
Aug 7, 2016 5:25 AM

This is the best article I have read so far about the Brexit result. It is rare indeed to see anyone in the MSM ever show such insight, let alone humility. I have been appalled by the insulting articles written in The Independent and Guardian, claiming that everyone who voted, ‘Leave’ was an uneducated moron living in the North of England. I had not been old enough to vote to join the then, EEC back in the 1970s. It was my parents generation who backed Heath and voted to join. I mind my father saying, ‘It will mean no more European wars. It means the disgusting losses of WWI weren’t for nothing’. My Dad had served all the way through WWII, from the age of 17. He didn’t talk about it much, but he did tell me of some horrific memories, including the sight of young men lying dead by a Tank that had been shelled and had caught fire. He said they had been cremated alive, turned to wizened monkeys of black charcoal. The account he gave of a young dead German, lying by the road side following the Battle Of Casino has stayed vivid in my mind. My father was in a troop lorry, trundling up steep, winding terrain. He said there was a fair haired young German, no more than 20, lying dead in the foetal position by the side of the arid, stony road. He described how the dusty back draft of the troop carriers wheels made the dead man’s hair stir. I mind my Dad ending by saying, ‘It struck me all of a sudden, that I was looking at someone’s son, someone’s grandchild.’ So yes, after the devastation of WWII who in their right minds wouldn’t support the idea of a democratic European institution… Read more »

Mike
Mike
Aug 26, 2016 7:34 PM
Reply to  Vicky Wheeler

Great post Vicky…but small correction: no one voted to join. There was no referendum before we joined the EEC under Ted “Grocer” Heath. The only referendum came in 1975, under Harold Wilson, on whether to stay in or not. (I voted “yes” to stay in, by the way. I was a Euro-enthusiast in those days).

Jay Sharpwit
Jay Sharpwit
Aug 5, 2016 5:32 PM

Remainers need to remain with the knowledge you lost the vote.
so please get on with your lives and have a nice day.

Katie Russell
Katie Russell
Aug 4, 2016 7:54 AM

Brilliant article. I am a Lexiter who voted Remain!
I have been a critic of the EU for many years, and planned throughout to vote Leave. But when the Leave campaign turned into (or was largely reported as) a racist anti-immigration fest (so depressing), I felt cornered, and had decided to spoil my ballot. Then on the day itself, a few things occurred to make me feel compelled to vote Remain – after weeks of sharing my Lexit views with anyone I could!
I don’t regret voting Remain exactly, and don’t feel guilty, as those were the circumstances of the day. But certainly I’ve been horrified by the blatant class snobbery of some on the Remain side since. I’ve found it every single bit as vile as the racism of some on the Leave side. Bigotry is bigotry. I also think it’s been much more widespread.
We on the left (Remainers, Leavers, and anything in between) need to unite now, and in a way, who voted what is no longer an issue, as what’s done is done. We all have lessons to learn, and all need to self-examine.
Strangely, I’m quite hopeful. Partly because I’m the eternal optimist! But also, political re-engagement (or engagement for the first time) will hopefully result eventually in conversations we desperately need to have as a society, and more empathy & understanding all round. Well, here’s hoping…

rarna
rarna
Aug 2, 2016 5:55 PM

Well written and thoughtful article. I enjoyed reading it. And I totally agree that people should talk to each other, and empathise with each other, no matter what walk of life they may inhabit. However, I do not think the referendum on our membership of the EU, was decided by any real democratic process. For democracy to work, people need to be in possession of truth and facts. The reality of the referendum was, that most people who voted for Brexit, voted because they had innocently believed a bunch of lies told to them in the media, and hardly challenged by anyone at all in any position of power or influence.
In my opinion, the whole thing was a set up. The result a foregone conclusion. Another example of democracy in name only, to provide an excuse for the continuation of oppression of those very voters who appear to have a choice. We only have to look at all the EU regulations that the Conservative led government of Britain had transgressed or ignored in the year leading up to the referendum to realise that there was never any question of us remaining in as members of the EU.
However, I do agree, that this referendum has opened up our society in a positive way, opened people up to political power, opened people up to the need to talk to each other, and understand each other, and it is this, that is the most beneficial result of the referendum, not the future position of our country in Europe.

mike lovar
mike lovar
Jul 27, 2016 2:38 AM

To make it (working class in america white man simple): poor whites are scorned while poor everything else is either patronized, exploited ruthlessly (when possible to do so invisibly eg restaurant workers agricultural workers construction workers) ,or used as a very slick subterfuge against any anger from the often primarily working or poor white people of most of the west who didnt manage to get on the fabulous upper middle class platform in lifes big train station. Outside of all the big coastal cities beyond the reach of the wealthy and the intellectual elites there are millions of people just gettin along. The ONLY reason we deny it so readily here is that it is incredibly invisible in this huge country but only for now. I believe what this fellow is saying is being borne out by Trump and the reactions to him in a manner that is very similar. What is uncanny is how the neo liberals are literally following a formula. Wiithout a media willing or able to show the pure cynicism of their lies and smug satisfaction with their scheme it will not be challenged until the pressure to do so reaches an explosive point. Then as they say here in the US all bets are off. We do after all have a whole lot of firearms in those poor old mobile homes (trailers) and rundown towns in the rural hinterland. So we too are doing a brexit move of sorts a la trump and the neo libs are just besides themselves. They are despite their gloss, polish and educated guile very corrupt venal and basically greedy and petty. It’s not going to change without ugly here or there. No i dont write that well and I dont care but i do own some property i inherited… Read more »

normantaylo
normantaylo
Jul 26, 2016 6:03 PM

There are some basic, wrong assumptions in this account that prevent me following the argument: “This is what happens when you ignore vast swathes of the working class for twenty-five years … This vote provided them with a chance to make themselves heard in a way no other recent election had.” And what have they said? Nothing they voted for will come to pass (immigration; taking back control?) How will this change after Brexit? It won’t, surely. “People were shedding tears for a union that plunged the entire nation of Greece into a depression for the sake of a few German and French banks.” No, they were shedding tears because Brexit eliminated any possible chance of having a say about the inequalities of Europe or dong anything about what the German and French banks get up to in future. “For towns like Oldham, Boston and Merthyr Tydfil, large-scale immigration and globalisation … means constant flux, it means change they did not ask for, it means losing things, and it means more people to compete with for the jobs that were already thin on the ground.” And now all this is going to change is it? I don’t think so. Jobs will continue to be scarce, immigration will continue and no further investment will come to these towns which thus far have benefited from EU funding. “The inequality gap has grown so wide that there are students in London who genuinely cannot fathom why a poor young person living in Rochdale might not see the benefits of a gap year …” And that will all change now too will it? London has been separate from the rest of the country for year and that’s not going to change. The gap between rich and poor will close? No! The rich will continue… Read more »

kevin morris
kevin morris
Jul 26, 2016 10:45 PM
Reply to  normantaylo

About as convincing as the argument often met that no longer will we be able to have stag parties in Prague.

grumpyaccountant
grumpyaccountant
Oct 20, 2016 5:23 PM
Reply to  kevin morris

You well might be abble to have stag parties in Prague. The pragmatic question is surely whether you’ll be able to afford them.

Jen
Jen
Jul 27, 2016 12:17 AM
Reply to  normantaylo

Well then perhaps you ought to write an article that carefully refutes what Durkan has said in his opinion piece (and it is only an opinion piece) and supports your beliefs with credible information showing that Britain will be worse off being outside the EU than within it and that EU funding to Britain really was going to distressed towns and social welfare, among all the other claims you make.
While Britain was a card-carrying member of the EU, did you personally do much to have your say about the inequalities within Europe or do anything about what German and French banks were getting up to? Please do describe the process by which an ordinary EU citizen can make his or her opinion or recommendation heard by the EU Commission or passed on to the European Parliament for debate and legislation.

obie
obie
Jul 27, 2016 10:22 AM
Reply to  Jen

Hear hear! For all the criticism of the lack of an exit plan, offered by people who preferred to stay and ‘fight from within’, I haven’t heard a single knowledgable description of exactly how that fight could be carried in an organisation where influence only flows one way – from top to bottom. The MEP’s can’t even lobby the Commission, let alone the ERT, who few of the many newly baptised patriotic Europeans seem to have even heard of!

Kim Smith
Kim Smith
Sep 24, 2016 7:23 PM
Reply to  normantaylo

FOLLOWING THE BREXIT VOTE, FROM ACROSS THE POND, AS THEY USED TO SAY, HAS BEEN TRULY ENLIGHTENING. TO QUESTION THE RESULTS OF DEMOCRACY BY ONLY TAKING THIS VOTE INTO ACCOUNT, IS DISINGENUOUS, TO SAY THE LEAST. THE BREXIT VOTE NEEDS TO BE FOLLOWED UP WITH NEW LEADERSHIP AND NEW, BOLD IDEAS. HERE IN THE STATES, WE ARE HOLDING OUR OWN BREXIT VOTE, IN A WAY. THIS NOVEMBER WE WILL VOTE FOR HILLARY, WHICH IS COMPARABLE TO REMAIN, OR WE WILL VOTE TRUMP, EQUAL TO LEAVE….I PRAY WE GO WITH TRUMP….FOR CLOSE TO 50 YEARS, BOTH OF OUR COUNTRIES, IN FACT MOST OF THE WEST, HAS BEEN GOVERNED BY LEADERS WHO KEEP REHASHING AND USING THE SAME FAILED POLICIES. HERE IN THE STATES, THE MAJORITY OF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE ALL OF A SIMILAR AGE. MOST WERE RAISED BETWEEN THE 1950’S TO THE 1970’S. ALL TRAINED IN THE SAME HANDFUL OF COLLEGES AND SOME EVEN TAUGHT BY THE VERY SAME EDUCATORS. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY ARE ALL CLONES OF EACH OTHER. ADD TO THIS THE LOBBYISTS AND FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS WHO PAY HUGE SUMS, YEAR AFTER YEAR…ELECTION AFTER ELECTION…TO KEEP THESE PEOPLE ALL WORKING AND THINKING IN THE SAME DIRECTION. I PRAY WE VOTE TRUMP. THE LIBERAL LOONS HAVE CREATED CHAOS AND ANARCHY. THOSE WHO HAVE SPENT THEIR LIVES IN POLITICS, HAVE NOTHING WORTHWHILE TO CAMPAIGN ON. NO SUCCESS STORIES, NO THIRD WORLD NATION THAT CAN BE HELD UP AS A MODEL OF HOPE… 70 PLUS YEARS AFTER WW2 AND THE SAME THIRD WORLD NATIONS THAT WERE PLACES OF STARVATION AND DESPAIR BACK THEN ARE STILL NATIONS OF STARVATION AND DESPAIR TODAY…BUT THESE IDIOTIC LEADERS HAVE CAUSED ONE MAJOR CHANGE….THE COUNTRIES IN THE WEST WHO HAD ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO SEND SOME RELIEF TO THE POORER NATIONS, ARE NOW THEMSELVES BEING DESTROYED….POVERTY… Read more »

Admin
Admin
Sep 24, 2016 8:22 PM
Reply to  Kim Smith

Try to locate your caps lock and use it in future please

cuew
cuew
Oct 21, 2016 6:42 AM
Reply to  normantaylo

As an outsider, the way I’ve looked at it is this. People who argue like you are basically saying that, yes the EU is a right-wing, neo-liberal organisation, but if we leave the EU we will end up with an even more right-wing and neo-liberal government! Doesn’t that strike you? If your government is even more extreme than the EU then surely there’s something seriously wrong with the whole thing!
My opinion as an outsider from the start has been that the best thing for the UK would be to leave the EU, and then vote in Corbyn. As far as I can see that is the only way to get any real progress. People who believe that by staying in the EU they can somehow reform it for the better from the inside are living in la-la-land as far as I can see; if that’s your argument, why haven’t you been reforming it all these decades you’ve been in it?

proximity1
proximity1
Jul 25, 2016 1:56 PM

Wow! That rare thing in contemporary journalism! : a genuine “I was wrong” column.
So, given that, I don’t want to be unduly hard on this rare person who can not only see but also admit his mistake. To him I say, Good for you! At least you can learn! That’s much more than I can say for most. And, to the others who can’t admit they now recognize–too late–that they were chumps, I repeat: the viciously scorned and ridiculed people of the “Leave” campaign–not the spoiled and privileged of that campaign’s leadership but the very hard-pressed people who had both their backs against the wall and the good sense to understand how and why that happened: these people saved the rest of youfrom YOURSELVES! (you ungrateful band of dip-shit mother-fuckers!)

Schlüter
Schlüter
Jul 24, 2016 9:25 PM

The Brexit affair is quite mulifolded! See this:
„UK, USA, EU, Seen in Context: Collection of my Brexit Articles“ https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2016/07/07/uk-usa-eu-seen-in-a-context-collection-of-my-brexit-articles/
Andreas Schlüter
Sociologist
Berlin, Germany

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Jul 24, 2016 2:47 PM

I agree with most of this Stephen. Those who attack the ‘poor saps duped by Gove & Farage’ show no recognition of being duped themselves into conflating EU with real internationalism. What they they doshow is remarkable ignorance/memory failure in respect of such as Greece’s shafting last year, TTIP, and the EU’s growing role as political-economic wing of NATO in its insanely dangerous provocations of Russia. (Interestingly, David “Dr Death” Owen actually cited that last, albeit in mangled fashion, in his own arguments for Leave – which just goes to show the ruling class doesn’t always speak as one, not even on such crucial matters of imperialist rivalry.) I agree too that there’s been a scurrilous kicking of “the plebs” over Brexit. It seems when you scratch a nice guy liberal/soft left cosmopolitan, you may hit that well of venomous contempt for ‘white trash’ – a species too lowlife to be protected by political correctness. Where I part company is over the strategic question. Though Lexit had a better, more closely argued grasp of the issue, none of the Lexiters I spoke with – in CP, SWP, Socialist Party (i.e. Militant) and Socialist Equality Party (i.e. one of the unfathomable splinters from Gerry “Diabolical Materialism” Healey’s WRP) – had a convincing answer on how ,b> at this particular juncture Brexit/Lexit would advance working people’s interests. Thanks to its toxicity for the tories, we haven’t heard a left critique of the EU in decades, meaning the Lexit voice was drowned out by xenophobia and Little Englandism. That’s why Brexit was welcomed with such rapture not by the left – who’ve been pretty damn quiet, all things considered – but by a jubilant far right the length and breadth of Europe. But we are where we are, and there’s much to do.… Read more »

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Jul 24, 2016 3:44 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Note to off-Guardian. I realised after posting my comment that my embedded link takes the reader off-site. This isn’t the case with links in actual posts and I wouldn’t have included one had I known. Is there a fix to this? I’m no HTML ace.

Jen
Jen
Jul 27, 2016 12:27 AM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Readers can just right-click the mouse over the embedded link and open it in a new tab.

Captain Buckles
Captain Buckles
Oct 18, 2016 6:16 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Sorry if I’m being thick, but isn’t that what links are supposed to do?

reinertorheit
reinertorheit
Jul 24, 2016 7:07 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Worth checking out is this piece by Paul Mason

Frankly I’ve never found a single thing written by Paul Mason – a venomous New World Order thug still living on his “d’y’know, I once worked at Channel 4” byline – to be ‘worth checking out’. Quite the reverse. The poisonous nark Mason largely ticks all the same boxes as his rodent-like counterpart at the Spectator, Damian Thompson, but with two small differences.
(1) Thompson’s bilious tosh is occasionally leavened with a note of humour and a dash of prose talent, neither of which the lugubrious ogre Mason possesses. (2) Thompson is enormously better paid.
Avoid like Polly Toynbee’s soiled underwear.

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Jul 24, 2016 7:47 PM
Reply to  reinertorheit

Oh. Hard to contest something as closely argued as that!

Willem
Willem
Jul 23, 2016 10:32 PM

Since the author is dissapointed by Ben Goldacre who propagandized ‘Remain’ by using non-scientific arguments (and non-scientific language), he (and others who share the author’s dissappointment of Goldacre’s writing about the ‘losers’ who dared to vote Brexit) may find the following essay from David Cromwell (of MediaLens), written in 2012, interesting to read: http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2012/702-bad-pharma-bad-journalism.html
In the essay, Cromwell explains (by summarizing an astute piece from an anonymous blogger) that it is easier for Goldacre to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. Which is the reason why Goldacre is doing so well in mainstream journalism. He is a critic of corporate systems, but his criticism is, in the end, not challenging capitalism at all. He did not in his supposedly highly critical analyses in the Guardian about the pharmaceutical industry (as Cromwell explains) and he did not criticise the corporate system by propagandizing the remain vote by calling Brexiteers ‘losers’.
It is this believe of Goldacre (and with that of every mainstream journalist who is not troubled with cognitive dissonance) that the framework of corporate capitalism is good, what makes him self-righteous and succesful in the mainstream media. He probably believed every word he said when he wrote about the Leave campaign. Because Remain did not challenge this supposedly ‘good’ corporate framework. So no science needed to insult those who beg to differ.

rtj1211
rtj1211
Jul 23, 2016 9:52 PM

‘Talk to your competitors’?
How can capitalists do that?
My experience in life has been every time I have shared anything with anyone out of generosity, it is thrown back in my face with them stealing it, trashing me and then claiming how useless I am.
It’s called ‘being ambitious’. I’ve seen it from HEI Professors, finance professionals, management consultants, marketing professionals, consultant doctors, entrepreneurs, multimillionaires.
Their aim is ‘getting on’ and they do it by crushing anyone who stands up to them.
There’s no societal value in talking, sharing or being generous.
None.
Is that the problem??

I Crawford
I Crawford
Jul 24, 2016 1:37 AM
Reply to  rtj1211

Bitter sentiment – but in my experience true.

reinertorheit
reinertorheit
Jul 24, 2016 9:13 AM
Reply to  rtj1211

I wonder if you have anything of substance to say about Brexit and the EU – or are you just here on an Oh-Poor-Me whine?
For someone keen to gripe about having what’s yours stolen by persons unknown, you seem remarkably ready to make your pay packet available to Federica Mogherini, so that she can use it to start her European Union Army project. What’s that going to cost, do we know? But if she has her way, her army will be marching along Nevsky Prospect quite soon – to keep the appointment for a Victory Reception Ball at the Astoria Hotel that somehow fell flat the last time, in 1944.