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Comments 101

The plain truth about terrorism

or why the “oops we accidentally let ISIS get our guns” excuse does not work…

We get a few people here saying some variant on “ISIS, al Qaeda etc are all the unlooked-for by-producet of the criminal western policy in the Middle East.” It’s one of the would-be middle-of-the-road positions occupied as much through fear of what lies beyond it than for any inherent value it contains. It’s still possible to be considered relatively mainstream and hold this position. Sensible people like Robert Fisk and Noam Chomsky promote it. There’s only one problem with it really, namely that it is not true. Recent leaks/releases of government documents have put it beyond question that the US, its Gulf allies and NATO at very least willingly got behind the creation of extreme jihadist groups and have been funding such groups in their attempts to overthrow the legitimate Syrian government.

So we thought we’d address that claim very quickly with the help of this graphic originally made by professor Tim Anderson. It makes the point more clearly than many paragraphs of text.

the_fall-back_story_9044b

That’s all you need.

Stop making that bogus and unhelpful claim here or anywhere else.


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101 Comments

  1. pavlovscat7 says

    The evidence of what happened to the seven buildings of the World Trade Centre and the associated damage to adjacent metal vehicles, on the eleventh of September 2001, is comprehensively recorded in Dr. Judy Woods book,’ Where Did The Towers Go’.. Her book is the most researched and recorded document (in the public domain) on what happened on that day. Her evidence is photographic, seismic, magnetic and meteorological.

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  2. Admin says

    Please note – this thread is for discussion of the article and related matters – and NOT for 9/11-related debates. We have an entire section devoted to the ongoing questions of 9/11 and many of those articles are open for comment. Please go there for any such discussion.

    Liked by 1 person

    • GTFONWO says

      No, dont do this. Only when we get to the truth, no matter how sickening and horrific, can be get to peace.
      Be brave. remember Bonnhoeffer. History condemns treason and treachery, but it also condemns moral cowards.

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  3. pavlovscat7 says

    Congratulations offguard…You have accumulated the biggest stash of, genuine, sincere, humanitarian, concerned, gatekeepers of the wood, that until recently I have never been able to see for the trees. I’m sure everybodys respective mothers are very proud of them:

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    • Alone in the wilderness. A misunderstood genius. Ignored, even by Admin.

      Looks like I’m the only friend you’ve got, Mr. Cat. A rat and a Cat, alone and together, lost in Gatekeeper Wood.

      It’s just me, you and all of the trees, Mr. Cat, and all the trees are ignoring us, which means that the whole forest itself is ignoring us. Now that’s creepy, isn’t it?

      And what about you, Mr. Cat? Would your Mommy be proud? I’ll bet she once was. I can picture the moment right this instant, one similar to many I’m sure you are able to recall:

      “Mommy, are you proud of me?”

      “Why, yes, my Kitten. You got every drop inside the litter box. Could a Mommy want more? You’ve been talking for years, already, but now and finally this!”

      I’ll bet my Mommy was proud of me, too, in my potty training days. I just can’t remember them. Well, maybe a smiling face, here and there, through hazy recollections do on occasion come back to me, though I can’t really be sure they are recollections, but if they are, they are definitely of happy ‘potty times.’

      Respective mothers, eh. Everybody’s got one. How profound and poetic.

      Liked by 1 person

        • Archie1954. You have commented before on other OffG articles and always made a decent comment regardless of whether you agreed with the article. Why denounce Norman Pilon but not Cat7
          How would you respond to Cat7’s constant barrage of Trolling? Unless of course you agree with Cat7’s beloved Dr. Judy? In which case you are entitled to your opinion, but make a better case for such death rays from outer space than Cat7 does.

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            • pavlovscat7 says

              So you will be going to, “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO”.. archie 1954?….after we see how this little tactic went of course.

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            • guilty as charged, don’t know why I respond to Cat7’s baiting. You are still sensible and succint, I will consider myself as having a swift kick up the derriere by someone who has the right to do so.

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              • pavlovscat7 says

                Well mohandeerintheheadlights…I know “why you respond to cat7s baiting”……you have to steer anybody who is still interested in the actual processes of what microwaved seven buildings on 9/11, TOWARDS, the controlled opposition of Steven Jones and the A@E thermite bullshit..And AWAY, from things like, “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO” and AWAY, from things like Andrew Johsons’ ” 9/11 FINDING THE TRUTH” Both books and videos freely available…That’s, why you keep responding to me mohandeerintheheadlights…I hope that answered your question:

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                • Idiocy is a condition that ranges on a spectrum between two extremes: on the one hand, an inability to comprehend that comprehends its inability; and, on the other, an inability to comprehend that it does not comprehend what it thinks it does.

                  A cat who suffers from the latter extreme is more confused than one assailed by the former.

                  And Woodianism is the litmus test for the more confused form of stupid: if you comprehend it and with pride, Mr. Cat, you admit to more than most would want to, because, of course, that’s what bloviating blowhards who are dolts do.

                  You mentioned the word “microwave.” Can you tell us a bit about that, Mr. Cat? How it can interact with solid structural steel and make it go away?

                  I’m curious. I want to know.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Silly Billy, Norman. Just look to Dr. Judy’s response when Jenkins asked the same question – lamentable to say the least. When you put things in the microwave they disappear, you know. Jenkins asked “Steel?” Answer: even steel. So all though there has been no development of directed microwaves (or photon torpedoes and such like because Star Trek is just a make believe adventure to date), someone has developed this technology(yes, they’ve gone beyond research, quite obviously) and they’re keeping it a secret. We can rule out Russia, China, Korea, Iran, Israel and the US because the ray guns would have been used to win the wars, so the next question must be who? My money’s on aliens.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • pavlovscat7 says

                  Gee’z you are desperate for a quote to mine aren’t you Norma? Microwave is a general term of just that…you know,eponomous? Did you think there was a giant microwave oven involved you silly numptie?. You’ll get a clue as to some ‘micro’, that means quite small, and ‘waves’..that’s genera for resonant radaited wavelengths if you research The experimental work of John Hutchison…and you might even get a trigger for your next quote to mine there ..and I’m sure your Guru, Steven E. Jones probably knows about all this kind of stuff…. But to really speed up your education Pilon…simply do as I have been suggesting to you and mohandeerintheheadlights all along…Go to, “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO” by Dr. Judy Wood.

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                • You cannot answer the question, can you. You have absolutely nothing, don’t you. And so a quick retreat into mumbo-jumbo is, as always, the only defense you can muster, and if you believe the non-sense that you write, you are truly daft, and if not, you are a troll, either paid or freelancing, but nevertheless another form of retard, eh.

                  Let me help you with the meaning of the word “microwave,” which a five second search will reveal to anyone who bothers to search the internet: it is a word used to designate a range of wavelengths on the electromagnetic spectrum.

                  There is a range of that spectrum which is visible to us, called “visible light,” and then there are categories of electromagnetic emissions that are both shorter and longer in their wavelengths than all emissions visible to us.

                  The spectrum of “microwaves” designates, by definition — so that “we” can all understand what “we” mean by the word and “communicate” with one another in a clear and unambiguous and standard manner — a range of wavelengths which exceed in length those to which your eye is sensitive and that falls between “1 millimeter” and “1 meter” and in a corresponding frequency range of between 300 GHz – 300 MHz.

                  So as to getting a clue about the ‘micro’ in ‘micro,’ while you and the likes of Judy can pat yourselves on the back for being all so esoterically clever, the rest of the world will in its dullness go so far as to designate an electromagnetic wave one whole meter long as being in the category of “microwaves,” which isn’t all that “micro” in the sense in which you so cleverly mean, eh, and since Judy Wood is an institutionally trained “scientist,” she would know that, now wouldn’t she? Otherwise she would not have been accredited a Phd. So why would she not use the term in the way that everyone else in the scientific community does unless, maybe, because her ‘audience’ wasn’t the scientific community, but cats like you, Mr. Cat.

                  And here is one little niggling fact about “microwaves” that disqualifies them as an energy source for the empirically unknown and unverifiable phenomenon of “dustification” or anything to do with that scam artist, Mr. Hutchison, who himself had probably never imagined such a thing as “dustification”:

                  “Because of small (order of micron or less) penetration depth of electromagnetic field into metals, temperature of a bulk metal cannot be raised very much, therefore, MW heating is generally limited to metal particles or films.

                  Source: – Journal of Microwave Power and Electromagnetic Energy, 44 (1), 2010, pp. 4-13, Fundamentals and Applications of Microwave Heating of Metals (.pdf URL: http://www.jmpee.org/jmpee_site/Vol_44(1)/JMPEE44-1-4Yoshikawa.pdf), p.5. (my emphases)

                  We patiently and indulgently await your next well beyond brilliant reply, and we do mean “well beyond brilliant”, eh.

                  Liked by 1 person

              • pavlovscat7 says

                An attempted, out of context projection of something contrary Pilon but, to the astute, your attempt to spin a mined -quote on Hutchisons text… was actual evidence of ‘cold fusion…. How did I get back in Pilon?.. Well, I recounted to the secretary of Controlled Opposition Central that meeting he had with you when you said, ” I’m Pilon, I’m a country member”… and the secretary said, “Yes I remember” Have you found your balls yet mohandeerintheheadlights? Heh Jen!…. The subordinate rats had to call in their superiors because the cat wouldn’t let the Sleeper-Dogs lie??… Go to.. “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO” By Dr. Judy Woods people…. Got to scrape that shit right of your shoes;

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                • Not only can this cat bray like a donkey, but it can croak like a frog, too.

                  You are a cat of many animal vocalizations, Mr. Cat, and you do those best that are the least self-aware and closest to Nature. I suspect you are outdoor cat, Mr. Cat, and proud of it, pride being the essence of cattiness.

                  But speaking of intimated swamps and Wood-land and of all of that, your latest impression, as of all others you have made so far, reminds me of a poem by Dickinson, the number of which is “260,” and please do forgive me the completely unwarranted comparison I am about to make, but in my humble opinion, whereas you are just a somebody in her meaning of that word, she was a poet even if you do tout the heavy credentials of having read an unfinished and surely not too deeply grasped short story by Kafka notched into (your vinyl kangaroo-skin imitation) belt.

                  It goes like this, I think, and it might very well have been written with the likes of both of us in mind, I think:

                  I’m nobody! Who are you?
                  Are you nobody, too?
                  Then there’s a pair of us—don’t tell!
                  They’d banish us, you know.

                  How dreary to be somebody!
                  How public, like a frog
                  To tell your name the livelong day
                  To an admiring bog!

                  Well, let me explain, since you are probably trying hard to squint through the fog in your brain to the upshot, anyway, and then why should I torture you so?

                  It’s just that I’ve noticed you keep getting at least one up-vote for almost everything you post in the almost the very instant you post it, so there is more than just one critter — maybe your alter ego? — as deeply lost in the Wood as you are.

                  How Kafkaesque, don’t you think? All of the creepy anonymity about, passing judgement on you even if favorably, and that’s got to be a bit scary, no? I mean, there’s more than just one like you in the world, right. The ‘up-votes’ confirm it. Luckily, however, you appear to be not too many – as of yet.

                  Now tell me, what can you tell us about the effects of microwaves on metal.

                  I’m curious. I really want to know.

                  Liked by 1 person

              • pavlovscat7 says

                There is stichomancy in controlled oppositions’ mutual appreciation shtick mohandeerintheheadlights…..repent.

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          • pavlovscat7 says

            “Constant barrage of trolling”?…that’s a good one mohandeerintheheadlights … you kill me…..look at all the fish that caught on the troll. Hows it going in the war room with Pilon?….”You do this!, no you say that! do you think this will work? I dunno, give it a shot!”

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    • Pavlovscat7, you’ve been mauled so many times by Norman Pilon and others, you’re stealing some other kitten’s share of nine lives. Go wait your turn in the ether queue.

      Liked by 2 people

      • pavlovscat7 says

        et tu Jen? ….Christ knows what turns up on the hook when one is trolling ‘eh?

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      • pavlovscat7 says

        Jen? All those kittens falling from the buildings?..all the kittens killed from the subsequent invasions?…That was all done by others wasn’t it? You can’t blame controlled opposition for that dead litter can you Jen? Nothing to do with them..nothing to do with you.?

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      • pavlovscat7 says

        Jen…You would have to like this one wouldn’t you?…..’ConTROLLED opposition goes into damage conTROLL when opposition to conTROLLED opposition shows the con’TROLLED…what’s hiding under the bridge and the canyon, entre nous.

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    • pavlovscat7 says

      Is my megalomania complete or is there some sort of serendipitous sortes going on in this textual stratum?

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  4. The 800-pound gorilla in the room, continuing, extremely disturbing fact is that individuals and or/groups supplied ISIS and all the rest of the terrorist mercenary killers with the literal means to carry out massive war crimes in Syria over the last six years. At this moment in time, none of those criminal facilitators, wherever they are on this Earth, have been held legally accountable.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Re: “oops we accidentally let ISIS get our guns”
    It may also be worth pointing out to the unconvinced about the ‘accidental furnishing’ of weapons etc. – that the USAAF has developed the Joint Precision Airdrop System (JPADS) – which can land a payload (dropped from 25km out) to within 35-75m of a designated drop zone. Oops, not so accidental then!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Precision_Airdrop_System

    Liked by 2 people

    • pavlovscat7 says

      On the Offguards’ dedicated 9/11 page was text stating that the page could no longer cope with incoming submissions but, 9/11 comments could posted elsewhere on the Offguard. So, svp,… although that murderous false-flag was not the first and has not been the last.. Much, if not most of the submissions here are exponentials on all manner of matters contingent on that exponent demolition day.. As are the real, international murderous acts for which that demolition is used as a justification. The Architects and Engineers Group ….ostensibly an investigative group formed to broadcast evidence as to the causes of the demolition of the seven buildings of the WTC…is a group whose real mission to direct people to both consensus and confusion over the real dynamics of that destruction.. The A@E Groups mission hinges on the so-called discovery of thermite and nano-thermite in the detritus of destruction:
      I say, displays of showering metal in the third act of the destruction theatrics (the contrived plane shaped explosions and larger explosions being the first and second acts) … those showers of sparks were deliberate decoys to the purposes of the A@E charades and their nano-thermite, nano-nonsence:
      I say Dr Judy Wood has the real evidence and explanation of the dynamics of that disassociated deconstruction:
      To the astute I am preaching to the choir…to the dilettante I am offering opportunity… to the disingenuous I am placing a bait….I wonder what I will catch?

      Liked by 1 person

      • What you say perfectly aligns with the facts available. Just went over to Norman Pilon’s blog and he has a very good video on the findings. You may well appreciate it: hy.poth.e.sis: a documentary about Steven Jones

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        • pavlovscat7 says

          And here Is another Stephen E. Jones video for the punters mohandeer..and for Dorothy Dixer… if she is still on survivor Island.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DEccFO7Eil Stephen E. Jones sabotaged cold fusion and then 9/11 Truth.

          NOTE FROM ADMIN: Steve Jones did NOT “sabotage cold fusion.” Read Mallove’s book on which those bogus claims are allegedly based and refrain from repeating disinformation

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          • kweladave says

            Your YouTube ‘video’ is no longer available.

            One of the really great things about George Orwell was the ability to express complexity using simple, straightforward English. Have you considered emulating him?

            Liked by 2 people

            • pavlovscat7 says

              George played ok in the sticks kweladave. Label me something and stand me to one side but, if you really want to see instinct made art form…you couldn’t go past Kafka could you? The Burrow I think was my favourite:

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            • pavlovscat7 says

              Here’s another youtube video you might not like kweladave..”.BASES PROJECT DR JUDY WOOD SECTION ONE AND TWO” no rush to get back to me, I have to go out and check out a new baby…nine pound plus…how we gunn’a rear him?

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            • pavlovscat7 says

              No mate!…..”YOUR”, youtube video is no longer available…..its pretty neat how you can create and link to those BULLSHIT, video no longer available arifices though:…. Any body that’s not intimidated by this latest bullshit agent can simply access the video by simply typing into youtube..STEVEN JONES SABOTAGED COLD FUSION FUSION AND 9/11….Sorry about that kweladave!

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  6. Reblogged this on Worldtruth and commented:

    Glad someone else is saying it, thanks to OffG.
    Anyone who believes that terrorist activity was happenstance rather than the US NGO’s with the help of McCain and Carter cutting a deal with Saudi/Qatar and Muslim Brotherhood/al Qaeda is either naive at best or being willfully obdurate. Is it really that much of a mystery how so many £trillions of US tax dollars “disappeared”?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. There is enough circumstantial evidence (at least for me) to conclude that Daesh/AQ are still on Washington’s and Langley’s payroll,
    We know there was a command and control centre in East Aleppo, staffed by Coalition ‘advisers’; and also a command centre in the Sam’aan mountain region that (probably) controlled the coordinated attack with Daesh on Dier Ezzor (and was more than likely destoyed as a result.)
    The December attack on Palmyra looked suspiciously authored by the USG. Have a quick look at a map of the M20 from Raqqa to Palmyra and you may well wonder how 5,000 terrorists in 1,000+ vehicles crossed the desert hardly drawing a stray round, let alone an air strike (that was the second time it’s happened.) Shades of 9/11 – LIHOP or MIHOP?
    According to South Front, since Astana, the major terrorist groups have formed two factions – roughly the evil headchoppers v the cuddly headchoppers – which is strange, as the previous regime of the USG said this could not be done. Whilst there is a certain amount of pragmatism involved (they are currently killing each other, which is a win win bonus) I wonder what prevented it before – the terrorists or their USG handlers?
    Apart from trying to sabotage the incoming Trump regime – it seems to me someone was keen to send a message to AQ/Daesh over Christmas – with B-52 raids in Syria (in breach of the ceasefire – do you not remember the headlines in the Guardian!); B-2 raids in Libya.
    The red flag event was the recent attack in Yemen (which was clearly planned before Trump’s inauguration) by “the Bin Laden Killers” SEAL Team 6 (I know, he was dead long before they ‘killed’ him.)
    Not content with a drone, they really wanted that AQAP leader publicly dead (and 8 women, 8 children and an 8 year old girl.) Of the possible reasons for this, the one that springs to mind is the message “you work for us, we know where you are, neither you or your family are safe. Capiche?”

    Liked by 2 people

  8. GTFONWO says

    I like this site very very much. But its high time everyone came to grips with the reality of the Deep State, its bankster and zionist architects and their Yale Skull-and-Bones henchmen.
    If you havent uncovered the WTC Building 7 on 911 smoking gun, you’re still being played.
    No one wants to go there, because its too horrendous to contemplate. But as Thomas Hardy wrote – “if a way to the better there be, it lies in taking a long hard look at the worst.”

    Liked by 2 people

    • Better late than never, there was a three month debate on WTC7 and all things 9/11 last year. Guess you missed it?

      Liked by 2 people

    • |Nobody wants to say it in case they get tarred and feathered, such is the fore planning that has gone into this “big lie”. A few years ago I thought it rather far fetched, but the information available now, puts such reporting well beyond the slander of tin foil hatters musings. I’m with you on this, but credit to BigB, because regardless of who pays the piper, the terrorists are still in the “US” and it’s 54th State’s payroll.

      Liked by 1 person

    • pavlovscat7 says

      Try not to look permanently at the worst GTFONWO…take a comprehending look at the best….Dr Judy Wood.

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        • pavlovscat7 says

          Many people have seen that construct years ago Pilon. To the astute, Jenkins came out of that quote-mining exercise more self inflicted victim than victor. The gatekeeper though is entitled to do his job and clutch at his strawmen. Is your mouth as dry as rat Jenkins was pilon?… I see the final part of the original video, where Jenkins’ true colours and purpose were exposed; is missing from the gatekeepers’ constructs and is replaced with random pictures of the inadequate volume of debris that Judy Wood has exposed and tried to explain to the browbeating, disingenuous rodent..plus nice music..Did you supply the intro verbal or the soundtrack Pilon…or was that done by your cohorts and supplied to you for your gatekeeper purposes?…. Go to Dr. Judy Wood for edification, explanation, and comparison to Pilons’ evidence people.. Comparison and hopefullycomprehension as to why rats keep digging everything out of the ruins of cruelty except the observable dynamics of that building, material-dissociation…. Go to’ Where Did The Towers Go’. You will not go back to the rat pack if you do. I’m sure the munificent Pilon would suggest you explore all possibilities, including that book; wouldn’t you Pilon mate???

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          • “Many people have seen that construct years ago Pilon.”

            Many have not. They deserve to see it every bit as much as whoever may have.

            Besides, this is Judy Wood, your scientific idol, at her level best, demonstrating her version of the scientific method, essentially looking at “trusted” photographs and interpreting them in such a way that can only lead to but one possible conclusion, and explaining, not ‘how,’ but ‘that’ the Towers were most incontrovertibly ‘dustified’ and that as a result, the ‘real’ field-of-debris of the Towers was millions of times, not merely six times, the area of the Towers’ footprints.

            See, photographs alone are sufficient to “prove” the abstruse “fact” of “dustification” even though no physical process known to man or reproducible in a laboratory exist to attest to that phenomenon. Sheer genius, no? Physical evidence? Why get bogged down into irrelevant details you have photographs, right?

            But do rejoice, Mr. Cat. You are now out of the bag, so to speak.

            Liked by 1 person

            • pavlovscat7 says

              Look to the Videos people. Pilons and Jenkins still photos, overlaid with their verbals are a disingenuous construct. Look to the videos… see the dynamics of the breakdown. Ask yourself if thermite cutting processes would cause the eruptions you see.? Pilon is not arguing with me or browbeating me with his schoolgirl histrionics… his purpose is to divert you away from “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO”?

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              • Poor, Mr. Cat. He thinks I am much more important than I am, and by engaging in an imaginary struggle with me, he is wrestling with someone or something, a shadow of his own mind, really, worthy of all the courage and wit he can muster, making his mother proud.

                Of course, I wholeheartedly agree with him.

                If you want to find out firsthand what Judy Wood is about, and by implication what Mr. Cat is also about, go the source. I can’t imagine in what way Mr. Cat believes that I’m an obstacle to the truth about Judy Wood. By all means, eh, have a look for yourselves and make up your own minds, as if that isn’t what you would’ve done anyway.

                Now to get back to this War of the Titans in which I apparently have a starring role . . .

                Oh where, oh where, did the Towers go? Dustified and windblown did they go. Where else, Mr. Cat?

                But in all seriousness, Mr. Cat, since you yourself seem to be so gobsmackingly stricken by Wood’s scientific astuteness, why don’t you summarize for us, your imaginary and gobsmacked audience, her ‘scientific method,’ Mr. Cat, how it is that she comes to her conclusion that it was “DEWs” that did it even though, Mr. Cat, she is not being able to “say” exactly what a “DEW” might be, well, certainly not the serial number of the gizmo as such, Mr. Cat, but then we really don’t care what the serial number might be, Mr. Cat, the ‘scientific principles’ underlying the wizardry of the thing abstractly stated being be more than ample and sufficient to our curiosity if you could state it, Mr. Cat, but a bit for the time being about only the method of her approach to collating ‘empirical evidence’ would be enormously indulgent on your part, Mr. Cat.

                And Mr. Cat, I only mention this because it seems that you don’t know this, but calling people names doesn’t exactly help them to understand the subtleties of anything at all, even less so Wood’s gobsmackingly astounding insights into the “dustification” of things, let alone steel, which if I’m not mistaken is a species of crystal lattice, but do feel free to correct me if I am wrong about the latter.

                Clearly, she, Judy Wood, Mr. Cat, is a misunderstood genius. Help us, then, understand her, Mr. Cat. For with your literary skill, it is the least you could do for the lot of us, here, at OffG, the forest of gatekeepers that we are, for our badly needed edification, of course, and to your eternal glory. For, presumably, you are a cognoscenti of Woodian “DEW-ism,” Mr. Cat, so it shouldn’t be too much of an effort for you to present to us at least an outline that isn’t too much of a distorting oversimplification of her theory.

                What do you say, Mr. Cat? Dazzle us even more than you already have. Surely you’ve another dictionary or two of buzzwords that you haven’t yet deployed and are just dying to put on display.

                Liked by 1 person

            • pavlovscat7 says

              Stichomancy Pilon..Stichomancy!.. You confessed to having more than a survivors’ access to records?.. If you want to see some effects of radio frequency (microwaves) on metals and other materials, in EMFs (also microwaves).. You and those who you have not browbeaten into timidity can go to John Hutchisons’ work on the micro…Then to see how the micro can dissociate the macro; go to Dr. Judy Woods work, “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO?”…Then stichomancers..you can come back here and see Pilons’ and mohandeerintheheadlights’ work in B quote minor:

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              • No more of this provocative nonsense please. You’re monopolising and compromising constructive discussion all over this site.

                1)Make your point and cite your sources without insults.
                2)Don’t multi-post one-sentence would-be zingers.

                This is a polite request. Do NOT ignore it.

                Liked by 1 person

          • Oh, and that bit about “. . . the ruins of cruelty . . .” — why, that just teared me up, as you can well imagine . . .

            Do you have an address where I might send you some flowers?

            Or would a cat with a big head rather go for some catnip?

            Here, then, is hoping that one day soon your life will be to you again, my dear Cat, that once again the sun might climb to the horizon, beautiful, and thereby help you to put a bit of trust back into life in spite of all those ruins, those ruins of cruelty.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Lord above Cat7, but you do have a humungous sanctimonious streak.What is your problem? Why are you even posting on OffG? Your only contribution seems to be as a detractor of anything anyone else may think. Trolling becomes tiresome when it is as relentless as yours and OffG isn’t the only site you visit with your negativity and deliberate snide and subversive opposition. I really don’t think I can give you the benefit of the doubt, you’re just not worth it. Bitchiness is one thing, pure mendacity is quite another.

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            • pavlovscat7 says

              SO you can’t or won’t, comprehend “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO” either mohandeer?

              Like

        • In connection with Judy Wood and her champion, and to all disinformation campaigns more generally and tailored to the age of the internet, I want to add one final thought, something to keep in mind, I think, as encapsulated in these two short quotes:

          A)

          “A honey pot, in intelligence jargon, is a tempting source of information or ‘dangle’ that is set out to lure intended victims into a trap. Ultimately the honey pot is violently and maliciously discredited so as to destroy the credibility of anything stuck to it by association.” -Michael Ruppert, “Crossing the Rubicon,” p. 184.

          &

          B)

          By 2009, the 9/11 “Truth” Movement was so inundated with disinformation that it had become a laughingstock. The easily-discredited claims (lies) contaminated the greater issue and soiled dissenters across the board. “Turd blossom” was a Karl Rove phrase that could describe what the movement had devolved into. The media, whether corporate or foundation-funded, could find people ranting about “the Jews” or the Illuminati, the Lizard People, the missiles, holograms, mini-nukes or space beam weapons vaporizing the Twin Towers.

          Many trolls, and some public personalities, appeared to be professional disinformation artists hard at work concocting and posting this crap online, which others repeated to their own detriment. One cannot easily prove that a specific person is a paid shill, a disinformation agent, a cyber agent provocateur, but be assured they are out there, and “out there.”

          source of both quotes: Disinformation Killed 9/11 “Truth — by Joe Giambrone

          Of course, it’s not as if someone recently just showed up out of the blue, not to ‘engage’ in good faith in conversation, despite being invited to do so more than once, but to do little more than disrupt and taunt, and wouldn’t you know it, to push what is a patently absurd theory, from a perspective seeking to ground itself in evidence, about what brought the Towers down.

          Yes, I’m calling the Cat out. It doesn’t require a great deal of astuteness to recognize what he is about, in my opinion.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Nice one Norman, especially true is the second quote. I apparently got another load of waffle that was supposed to be illuminating – no pun intended, but he really shouldn’t try to show granny how to suck eggs – what he knows about lumens – pun intended, you could fit on a postcard, so I didn’t bother to respond. I don’t think he is out of his spotty stage yet, so hopefully he will troll somewhere else rather than OffG
            Thanks for being my Knight in shining armour. my amour, my paramour, my….oops, where was I? Oh yes, sucking on my eggs. Till the next time!

            Liked by 1 person

            • pavlovscat7 says

              Stichomancy mohandeerintheheadlights….stichomanthy.. And while you’re on your knees and preying for Pilon. …..repent!

              Like

        • pavlovscat7 says

          The gate keeper returns. Slowly coming to the boil of an increasingly desperate, Alex Jones style browbeating. The cats head is harder than the rat.

          Like

          • “The gate keeper returns”

            My, aren’t we getting a tad formal. Do you really think you have to announce yourself after it’s obvious to all that you have returned?

            And what is that desperation of which you speak that drives you to adopt the mannerism of Alex Jones?

            Is trumpeting your name all that you are capable of, Mr. Cat?

            And indeed, it’s obvious, eh, even from a lot of pictures, if that’s all you have to go by, that the Cat’s head is much, much thicker than that of the rat’s.

            Liked by 1 person

            • pavlovscat7 says

              EVIDENCE at 10 paces PILON…The schoolgirl “YOU ARES!” are loosing you demographic.

              Like

            • Norman – glad you responded to Cat7 ‘ cos I’ve decided “It” tests my patience and can find very little redeemable qualities in “it’s” posts – you may have more tolerance for fools or mendacity, I just can’t be arsed with it’s superiority complex.

              Like

                • pavlovscat7 says

                  But you are the office champion of the Truthocracy Pilon..The Goliath..the suma cum laude of office psychopathy 101…What will mohandeer do if you abandon the field.?..What will my superiority complex do? Revert to imposter syndrome? Where will my mendacity go? You hard men really know how to beat a guy up.

                  Like

                • I’m a skeptic of “conspiracy theory” until the evidence is substantial and those who advocate any such theory have facts or proofs which are well compiled and extremely compelling. Having listened to Jenkins interviewing “Dr.” Judy Wood I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. The thinking behind such a theory – that energy beams from outer space “did it” – was so out there in left field it made exponents of theories which can be shown to be more plausible than the lies told by the “deep state” look bad. Not only did Dr Judy have no facts, or proofs but her arrival at conjecture based on spurious presumptions and dubious “science” which she is unable to prove even exists, made her look like the veritable Tinfoil Hatter, a label so many ascribe to those of us who dare to question the absolutes the MSM feed us. She really is that much of a “looney” embarrassment.
                  It makes me wonder why China took delivery – as shown by a bill of dock loading by one enterprising person – of the nuked steel I Beams from the site when in fact they were dustified and therefore invisible. And there I was worrying about where they were going to bury them!

                  Liked by 1 person

                • pavlovscat7 says

                  So you will have NO objection, mohandeerintheheadlights..if people go to youtube and type in; BASES PROJECT DR JUDY WOOD SECTION ONE AND TWO?……AFTER ALL…. ….mohandeerintheheadlights…Surely if your acolytes went there, it could only reinforce the loony credentials and reinforce the veracity of your appraisal of Dr. Judy Wood ? Surely? Where is Pilon by the way…rummaging around in the controlled opposition files..looking for irrelevance and quotes to mine? You’re funny mohandeerintheheadlights:

                  Like

  9. johnschoneboom says

    I happen to agree that intentional policy is the most plausible interpretation, but if we’re going to be honest and rigorous — and I think we ought to be — then we’ll still have to admit that arriving at that conclusion involves a hermeneutical leap at the very end of the available evidence. We have quite a few provocative statements about awareness of the rise of ISIS as a likely outcome of US policy in the region — so surprise is eliminated as a factor; we even have statements indicating that the rise of ISIS would be a welcome development — which brings us to “let it happen” but not quite to “made it happen”; we have admissions about our allies funding ISIS (and Al Qaeda derivatives) — which still requires connecting dots between their actions and who’s-really-in-charge; and we have the evidence on the ground of US weapons and supplies ending up in ISIS hands, as well as things like the US attacking Syrian army positions, “coincidentally” supporting the territorial advance of ISIS.

    To me, and to the author of this piece, these considerations are indeed strongly suggestive of the conclusion that the US literally and cynically created ISIS as its latest bogeyman in order to enable its various military-intelligence-police state-pipeline ambitions, probably (as Sibel Edmonds has suggested) out of a sense of public fatigue of the Al Qaeda “brand”.

    But “strongly suggestive” still falls somewhat short of “proof positive” and allows for the alternative realpolitik explanation along the lines of “yes we knew we were making this inevitable and we’ve tacitly allowed its support by our allies but it’s because we privileged other goals like toppling Assad.” And that’s well within mainstream discourse, which allows for criticizing regime change and pipeline politics and so forth.

    The difference between the two interpretations is somewhat fine and may lead in any case to similar implications about the psycho-social illness that is US foreign policy. But, insofar as I prefer to be conservative in my crazy nut job conspiracy theory assertions, I think it’s better to acknowledge the role of interpretation than to make claims about “plain truth” that are antithetical to debate.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Fair comment. Have you been following what Ashton Carter and John McCain have been up to? They were both observed in what they thought were clandestine meetings with leaders of first, the Muslim Brotherhood and then what were known to be Al Qaeda leaders. The dates checked out and both were on NGO “missions”. There are also the claims of the terrorists themselves, not just empty boasts, since they were happy to pose for selfies with their brand new US weaponry on display. Did you know that Syrian villagers and towns people frequently reported on US air supply drops(including weapons) in the middle of nowhere, with the DAESH terrorists in the area appearing within moments, to collect it?Are you aware that Israeli IDF were fighting alongside black clad ISIS, engaged in battle against SAA and had previously been photographed in mutual exchange of supplies with same terrorists. Were you aware that Ex Mossad and Israeli Kurds were moving along the Mosul province murdering Chaldean Christians in the area of Nineveh and that the properties acquired by such means were being advertised in Israeli Newspapers for “Israeli business men” as another incentive for US Zionists to make the trip out to Israel. Were you aware that Syrian villagers were sending ‘phone photo’s of US jets flying over vast columns of ISIS clad humvees and Toyotas on their way to refuelling and resupply at the then Turkish held depots, but did not once fire on them. These according to Syrian sources were a weekly cavalcade, not just a one off. I could go on, but there comes a time when you draw the line between coincidence and patterns. Well we have long since passed the point of “coincidence” and although it does not constitute proof, it would suffice in a court room as “mounting evidence”. It certainly would take some explaining.

      Liked by 2 people

      • johnschoneboom says

        Oh believe me, I’m with you 100%. I wasn’t aware of each of those things but yes, most of them, and it’s good enough for me to make up my mind as you have. I was just kind of defending the notion of stating it as a theory backed by all sorts of evidence, an argument if you like, as opposed to stating it as “plain fact” which I feel convinces nobody, stifles debate, and probably puts people off by its aggressiveness. My interest I suppose is in the art of persuasion. Wielding “plain fact” in that way, beside being technically inaccurate, is more like using a club to the head!

        Liked by 2 people

        • Point taken. You are of course correct in your observations. Most of us who are aware of so much the NWO has achieved, because of our dedication to exposing truths, are convinced of the apparent guilt, but in truth, the facts are so spread out in their origins and availability that it is difficult to put forward any historic time frame let alone a list of culpability “proofs” that could convince the uninitiated. All we can do is keep posting in threads, all the links that lead to a culmination of exhaustive facts to validate our claims until they accumulate as a general pastiche of events and facts. Until then, we just keep putting it out there.

          Liked by 1 person

    • There’s never going to be any “proof positive”, the neocons are far too well embedded and connected to let anybody important get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. They leave evidentiary footprints everywhere, but they don’t give a damn about that, because most people lack the forensic skills to read and understand what the evidence tells them.

      Liked by 2 people

      • johnschoneboom says

        I completely agree. And I think everyone by now is very wary of “fake news” and people trying to put one over on them. That’s why I think it’s important never to overstate a case. To say look, here’s what I think and here’s why I think it. I think when you say “this is obviously how it is, there’s no room for alternative interpretations, and anyone who can’t see it my way is stupid” you don’t win many converts. The art of persuasion. I have had the most success when I have made no assertions, but only laid out evidence and asked people what they think it might mean. I’m always interested in what works for other people though. It’s a minor point I’m making; I fully agree with the conclusions themselves.

        Liked by 1 person

        • That’s a very astute observation again. It’s like reading Nick Cohen who “sounds” so right, even to people who know him to be a liar, but still get taken in by his “assertions”. Only those who already know his fake truths can put forward the real facts and then only if we have the appropriate links and still there are those who will not bother to follow the links for verification. In other words, unless you are willing to quote verbatim the truths you have learned, it’s just your word against his. Too many people believe what they want to because it requires nothing more than being led by the nose requiring little effort and a total disregard for real information which might alter their perceptions. It’s like wading through treacle or fighting with both arms tied behind your back.

          Liked by 1 person

          • pavlovscat7 says

            So what is this Cohen chappies address mohandeerintheheadlights?…. I’ll send the ungratefull bugger a copy of, “WHERE DID THE TOWERS GO”

            Like

  10. Have doubts their is such a thing as plain truth. We have beliefs shrouded in a pseudo science of available/provided evidence. Whatever truth may be it will not be found via government, media or indeed any organisation. The Syrian tragedy is a reflection of the tragic societies we are told exist. If pushed, suspect off the wall political cults like Zionism, religious cults like Christianity, insane beliefs such as manifest destiny and probably ancient bloodlines have culpability. The plain truth as offered by the author is too convenient as it provides a face where a face doesn’t exist.

    Liked by 1 person

    • “The plain truth as offered by the author is too convenient as it provides a face where a face doesn’t exist.”
      Yes in a manner of speaking plain truths are never as straightforward or as simple as we, any of us, believe. There is no face precisely because all the actors are hiding behind masks and their utterances are as remote as the distant past and a present which is constantly in flux depending on a person’s circumstances. If we stripped away all the lies, what would be left behind would still be one person’s truth and another’s lie as all truths are prone to perceptions as varied and complex as society itself is. Whose society, yours, mine, the other guy’s? In a way, we all have some culpability, however unwitting, in something, I’m sure I am complicit in some vagary, somewhere or at some time.
      All we can accomplish is putting our thoughts forward and wait to see whether we share agreement in what we perceive as “plain truths”
      Like people to challenge me to consider my thinking. Thanks.

      Like

  11. Reblogged this on EU: Ramshackle Empire and commented:

    The US involvement against Libya during the Obama presidency, like so much elsewhere (like the Middle East), left that country a total ruin and triggered a large scale refugee crisis. Every US military involvement creates these results.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. I have always believed that the US was the biggest supporter of terrorism in the Middle East and have told Americans as such. They, of course, are so ignorant of facts and so brainwashed that they wouldn’t know the truth if they fell over it!

    Liked by 3 people

  13. Yes it’s been clear for a while, to those who cared to look a little closer, that arming and otherwise supplying ISIS, AQ and however many other Salafist/Wahhabi terrorist groups in Syria is no accident on Washington and London’s part. I have even seen footage (unverified) that purports to show ISIS guys openly riding public transport in Ankara.

    It is stupidly easy for TPTB to slip all this by the public who, even after the smorgasbord of lies that led up to the Iraq invasion, barely react at all. Or they scoff and dismiss it as a “conspiracy theory” and leave it at that. Generally people have shut their brains off and obediently scarf down the rotting slime they are spoon fed by the propagandists in the MSM. Now they can add “Trump supporter!” to their collection of thought terminating nonsense.

    Chomsky and Fisk are interesting cases. Fisk was at his best during the Lebanese Civil War and subsequent Israeli invasion and his book on that war is excellent. His reporting on the Syrian war is a mixed bag. He started off, as did many or his colleagues, buying the “revolution” story. To his credit he has come around to seeing it as the proxy war against the Syrian state and Bashar al Assad that it is. However, he goes to great lengths to point out that “Assad is a monster” (and Gadaffi was obviously “crazed ” of course).

    Fisk, like Patrick Cockburn, buys the semi-official line that ISIS and friends rose due to the Obama regime’s incompetence despite the mountains of evidence that suggests they were armed and funded by the US and its alles from day one. Why? Job security I suspect. Can’t imagine them actually believing the “bungling Yanks” theory. Would be interesting to j know for sure.

    As for Chomsky…he is an American nationalist at heart. He believes in his own version of American exceptionalism, which clouds his view at times. He also has a low tolerance for having his conclusions challenged and can be given to bouts of arrogant lecturing on why he is right and his interlocutor is not.

    I am not suggesting he be written off…his tireless challenges of the official USG narratives are invaluable and more often than not he gets it right. This of course does not mean he is 100% right about everything 100% of the time.

    I look around me and as our society slides into a tangible trajectory of decline I get the sense western man/woman are intellectually regressing. The incredible gullibility and naïveté with which people believe the nonsense spun by our esteemed media in the service of imperial empire is bizarre.

    I suspect the Internet and a combination of echo-chamber thinking, information overload and a ubiquitous media that has changed its tactics may play a role here. Perhaps also the possibility that humanity and much life on Earth will be wiped out within the next century. But that is for another post at another time.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Seamus Padraig says

      “I am not suggesting he be written off…his tireless challenges of the official USG narratives are invaluable and more often than not he gets it right. This of course does not mean he is 100% right about everything 100% of the time.”

      Meh. Chomsky, Fisk and Cockburn did some good work back in the day, but it’s been years since they had anything truly worthwhile to contribute. As they just cannot shake the western MSM narrative–and the ‘respectability’ it confers–their analysis is destined to remain fundamentally false.

      Like

      • Sadly most recently Chomsky seems to be losing the plot. It’s a shame he did really good work for so many years, but alas has fallen into a hole and the light ‘aint on.

        Like

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