Why so much "fake news" about Manchester “terror attack”?

the egregious Buzzfeed has an article today collating the huge amount of alleged fake news erupting around the alleged terror attack in Manchester.

The alleged fakery includes:
1) a story about “sixty children” being given shelter in a nearby hotel, dismissed as “fake’” by the Guardian

And described thus on BuzzFeed:

“…Many popular social media accounts posted incredibly viral tweets suggesting a group of around fifty unaccompanied children had been taken in by a Holiday Inn hotel close to the Manchester Arena following the Ariana Grande gig. Many of the tweets, apparently shared in good faith, urged concerned relatives to phone Holiday Inn directly if they could not get in touch with their child following the terrorist attack….

2) a “victim grid” including people who are very much alive and many miles from the alleged event. This grid was published in the Mail and elsewhere before being debunked.

.

3) fake Twitter posts of fake searches for fake victims, including this photos of an alleged “missing child” tweeted by his alleged sister…

that is – allegedly – actually a photo of a child model….

4) claims from alleged witnesses of shootings and “gunmen” at a nearby hospital which again made it into the MSM:

but were “all seemingly sourced back to one incredibly viral Facebook post claiming a man was outside the hospital with a gun.”
Buzzfeed, of course, has its own angle on the source of this fakery, ascribing it to “trolls” and the like, and the mere fact this mountain of fraud is being discussed in such places implies it will be used to further an agenda – probably the increased censorship of social media and alt news sites to combat the meanies who tell lies. We can also be sure there will be no outcry against the mainstream outlets that published the fake news, because the MSM gets a free pass on fakery.
But we don’t need to like or agree with Buzzfeed’s approach to recognise this bizarre amount of fakery raises many important questions. It further emphasises the blurring between reality and fiction that is the norm now in our collective awareness. Whoever may be behind them, the fake Twitter appeals to find fake missing people blur seamlessly with the genuine ones. None of us can really tell where one stops and the other begins. Or how much of any alleged event belongs on which side of the divide. We can all be duped. Now more than ever.


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Kevin
Reader

Taylor Swift is a fascist white supremacist she licked the KOKKK of Morsay, Benoit Hamon and ANDREW ANGLIN and she voted for Adolf Trump TWICE. Taylor Swift the hef RACIST also listens to the necro music SEWER 2154 from the racist site the DAILYSTORMER!!! Google “Taylor Swift SEWER 2154” and SEE FOR YOURSELF! The songs talk about spitting in the pussy of 12 year old GIRLS!!! BOYCOTT TAYLOR SWIFT to fight FASCISM and PEDOPHILIA!

Ramses Reyes
Reader

Occasionally useful idiots become indoctrinated and commit acts that can be exploited for political reasons, not necessarily “false flags”. The MSM is the best and promoting fake news, I loathe buzzfeed however they are right, online trolls like to put stories out strictly to dupe MSM and get them to publish fake news to prove how fake the MSM is. This won’t likely change any time soon.

StAug
Reader

Okay, so someone posted the following (below) as “proof”… look at it carefully and ask yourself which part of it proves anything? I see people talking… period. People I don’t know. No matter where they work, or how long they’ve worked there, these are people I know nothing about… what do their “testimonies” prove? Do we really think that if the “Government” (however you refer to it) wants to condition and manipulate the electorate to achieve a desired end, they’re incapable of planning, orchestrating, executing a bit of theater that’s convincing to those who can’t imagine the “government” would deceive… Read more »

BigB
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BigB

I’ll post this on the other article as well. I’m not going to say definitively that no one died – but I find this very suspicious. Manchester fire fighters were held at Phillips Square for over an hour. When they got there – the scene had already been cleaned up. (Courtesy of UK Column)
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/firefighters-infuriated-after-were-stopped-13087703

mog
Reader
mog

Looks like someone wanted to control the crime scene by restricting access to ‘specialists’ for the first hour.

John
Reader
John

Usually, the emergency services are kept back in case any further unexploded devices are present at the scene.
It is also why emergency service workers tell members of the public not to run, in case they run into danger.
I have serious reservations about this incident and its timing but – far more importantly – I think we should be asking what process resulted in this sorry and stupid individual throwing his life away for no good purpose?
Within the Libya context, it may well be a case for British Intelligence of: “As you sew, so shall you reap”.

mog
Reader
mog

Just for the record. I spent about 5 minutes searching (via Twitter and then onwards following links) and found a number of testimonies of doctors, nurses, paramedics and witnesses. There are lists and photos of the dead.
If anyone really thinks this is all faked, I disagree, and cannot see a way that so many honest people could be so quickly and completely corrupted, or how the grieving friends and families could put on an act so monstrously absurd.
Get fucking real, and challenge your own self confirming click shit.

Sav
Reader
Sav

I don’t doubt the incident happened. But we can still speculate on who is pulling the strings directly or indirectly. There is a lot stuff about crisis actors strewn about over youtube which is just so over the top that I sometimes suspect it’s deliberately done to tarnish anyone questioning these incidents. That said, look at the recent disclosure of a British firm being contracted to make fake terror videos. Is it any wonder people are suspicious. There are unseen forces out there up to all sorts of crap that years ago I would have thought too far fetched. So… Read more »

Norman Pilon
Reader

Yes. At this point it’s all speculation and nothing should be ruled out a priori. On the other hand, debunking by video analysis and “how” people imagine that people “would most certainly behave” under the circumstances is to my mind pretty weak in terms of “evidence” and even as a line of inquiry. My instinct is that people did die. It’s easier to pull the pin on a grenade in a crowded venue than to arrange a montage. And you are more certain of generating real outrage and lasting divisions over really dead and mutilated and traumatized children than you… Read more »

StAug
Reader

N! I don’t find it automatically suspicious when someone presents an opinion, one way or another, but I find it suspicious when someone keeps trying to push an EMOTIONAL RESPONSE to a story like this. Why? What good is that meant to do? When we allow ourselves to be Manipulated Emotionally, our Critical Thinking flies out the window. Why is this commenter trying to push these buttons? To what advantage? If he/she gets some people upset (upset enough to accept parts or all of the official narrative), what does he/she get out of it? So: does this commenter believe the… Read more »

manfromatlan
Reader

Are you down voting Mog’s rebuttals, St. Aug? Curios to see them all getting 1 down vote.

StAug
Reader

Hilarious.

Norman Pilon
Reader

StAug, Who at this point can say what the Manchester Bombing was about? The alleged event just happened. A certain amount of time will be required for the details of the matter to emerge on the bases of reliable and independent corroborations. What is alleged is a terror event having been committed by a radicalized Muslim youth. That’s the official line so far. Predictably, then, on the basis of this framing, already the ‘reaction’ among the general population in the West will tend in the direction of an antipathy toward Muslims in general and support for any kind of military… Read more »

StAug
Reader

Norm, I would put my faith in Crowd-Sourced coverage of this event. Had it been real, there’d be lots of freaked-out teens posting viral vids of their experiences. I put as much faith in the MSM testimonials you’re falling for as I did in “Harley Man’s” testimony at Ground Zero, and Gene Rosen’s testimony at Sandy Hook, and the “Cowboy Hero’s” testimony at Boston and Suzy H’s testimony at the Gabby Giffords event, et al. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. And if I saw CCTV footage of the perp blowing himself up, I would believe it to… Read more »

mog
Reader
mog

This might duplicate as I posted multiple links in one post and got into a moderation queue.
I agree with Norman that it is not only easier to bomb for real than fake it all, so why fake it?
It would be immensely complex to get all the following to hang together….
A leading paediatrician who has spoken on several media broadcasts:
https://twitter.com/DrPeterMarc

mog
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mog
mog
Reader
mog
Reader
mog

21 people named as having died:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/manchester-attack-victims-from-the-ariana-grande-concert-attack-2017-5?r=US&IR=T
….All this fakery would take a lot of planning. The people involved would have to keep their lies going for the rest of their lives.
This info is pretty easy to find.

StAug
Reader

Feel free to post those links, Mog, so we can be the judge of how authentic the material they lead to seems.

StAug
Reader

“Get fucking real…”
It’s just so hard with obvious Trolls/Shills constantly ginning up so much fake emotion around such events.

mog
Reader
mog

Testimony of nurse Joe O brian:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/24/i-still-feel-raw-nurse-tells-of-treating-manchester-bombing-victims?CMP=share_btn_tw
Senior Paediatrician who has done a lot on media:
https://twitter.com/DrPeterMarc
Several doctors and paramedics testiony here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/absolute-heroes-praise-for-medics-treating-manchester-victims
Ambulance driver here:
https://twitter.com/NWAmb_Dan
Forgive the emotion, but this was a sick attack on kids.
I am done here. With you anyway.

StAug
Reader

If you promiseyou’re “done with me”, I’ll let you in on a secret: I’ve seen photos/ “medical testimonies” from every anti-Moozlim or anti-Gun Lobby Propaganda Event from Gabby Giffords to Sandy Hook to Aurora to Boston and every single smaller event between (btw, I hate guns, but I also hate being manipulated). I watched the “carefully” (well, a large amount of time/effort/cash went into these productions, certainly, sloppy as they were) produced “documentaries” of Gabby Giffords, with her unconvincing make up, and not-quite-right symptoms, simulate a “miraculous recovery” from being shot, point-blank, in the head… much like Malala. who staged… Read more »

StAug
Reader

“….All this fakery would take a lot of planning.”
And they don’t have the time, budget, will or manpower for planning, do they? Why, if they could plan and execute a False Flag capable of fooling Gullible Citizens, what else might they be capable of…? Planning, executing and justifying illegal invasions of sovereign nations with wholly falsified justifications? Preposterous! I mean, don’t they have modest, rational goals and ethical outlooks similar to you and I…?

Manda
Reader
Manda

A very interesting report. US apparently leaked photos of blood stained items thought to be part of the Manchester suicide bomb detonator and pack. Raises lots of interesting questions.
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-05-24/uk-condemns-leak-of-bloody-images-of-suspected-manchester-bomb-by-us-media/

MS
Reader
MS

Meh – it’s just part f the ongoing psyop. The yanks break the leak so the citizens of UK can see the blood and feel the shock and be convinced how real it all was, w/o the UK government having to take the rap for being insensitive. And as a bonus we can all unite in deploring the Americans. Personally I have my doubts any of these terror events are much more than drills now. I think they have figured a way of getting the shock and awe without having to kill people or get messy. A few (often really… Read more »

tommytcg
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Exacctly

StAug
Reader

Yep. Verisimilitude. Makes it feel more “real” that the UK are “angry” with the Yanks (who are running the operation) for “leaking” (the bullshit artifacts). Ho hum.

Devan
Reader

UK Proscribed terrorist organization, Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), maintains large presence in Manchester area and is now being linked to recent blast.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/manchester-alleged-suicide-bomber-linked-to-libya-islamic-fighting-group-lifg-known-to-british-security-intelligence-lifg-was-supported-by-nato-against-gadaffi/5591732

Greg Bacon
Reader

Be afraid, be very afraid! So much so that you and your family cower in your home, too scared to go out. All we need is the rest of your liberties and most of your money–we’ll leave enough for food and rent–and we’ll guarantee your safety, well kinda, because sometimes shit just happens, especially when WE are in charge.
People were becoming inured to the garden variety false flag, so now they’ll be going after the most helpless, so stay fearful, so afraid you can’t ask questions, only quiver and hide.

BigB
Reader
BigB

Operation Temperer – the Army on the streets – the paramilitarisation of the Police – in flagrant contradiction of our Constitution (not to declare Martial Law in times of ‘peace’) – a ‘Critical’ threat level (yes, from Downing Street at least) – a rolling declaration of a State of Emergency – a suspension of the election? Is this the start of a police state authored by Treason May? Or an enactment of the Civil Contingencies Act – a legacy of Tony fucking Blair? May doesn’t have to do a thing – the architecture of a police state is extant –… Read more »

StAug
Reader

Favorite MSM Blooper thus far: shaky “urgent” and “terrifying” video of inside the arena with audio track of screams and squeals of terror. But if you look very closely (not easy to do while the camera is whipping nonsensically to and fro)… you can make out that people aren’t moving very quickly at all and some can even be seen to be playing with big pink balloons, batting them about like beach balls. Which is fairly brave behavior given the circumstances and the deafening ambient screams all around them, no?

Admin
Reader

Do you have a link for that?

StAug
Reader

Well, looking quickly I’ve turned this one up, which features about half a second during which you can see kids playing with the balloons (while leaving the arena) but this one doesn’t feature the (obviously fraudulent) “screams” SFX over the scene of kids hitting the balloons around (at the :38 mark):
https://youtu.be/zK-kcuELKfM?t=38

mog
Reader
mog

I know colleagues of doctors who have been working on casualties from Manchester Arena. Discrepencies in the emerging evidence, even absent footage does not prove, or even strongly suggest wholesale fabrication. People are known to give conflicting accounts, it is commonly acknowledged in criminal investigation. People don’t always upload vidz of dying children for the gawpers. There are fabrications (eg in Syria), I do not contest that, but in a country like the UK, where victims are named, where doctors and emergency responders all have social media accounts, where the media does have some access, it is slightly absurd to… Read more »

StAug
Reader

@mog… on the other hand, to be fair, I don’t know you and you’re not using a Googleable name, so… I don’t see the problem with Extreme Scepticism. It’s contingent, no? Extraordinary claims require commensurate proof, especially when deception is common. How can it discredit anything more valid than a polite willingness to conform?
“People don’t always upload vidz of dying children for the gawpers.”
Yeah, but teens do.

mog
Reader
mog

Is it an extraordinary claim? History is littered with terrorist incidents. Deception is common I agree, and so I have no problem with people asking any questions about the statements of the UK state. To me though, it seems obvious that -outside of a distant war zone with a media blackout, you cannot entangle hundreds of people (doctors, nurses, first responders, police officers, witnesses) in a massive deception as the whole country looks on. Are they all going to lie to their colleagues, family and friends (and the media) as the troops are rolled out onto the streets in response… Read more »

StAug
Reader

Oh, and re: Tom Secker: I’ve steered clear of his “work” since reading his take on the Boston Event. “A False Flag? None of this makes it any less likely (or any more likely) that the Boston bombings were a false flag event. That remains to be seen, though it is curious that two days later the FBI have yet to name even a single suspect. Within hours of 9/11 and 7/7 the blame had already been apportioned, so quickly in fact that the story must have been established before the attacks took place. No such thing has happened with… Read more »

StAug
Reader

At this point, the claim that a “terrorist” blew himself up in order to send a political critique to the citizens of the nation he detonated himself in is an Extraordinary Claim, yes; it’s also an Extraordinary Claim that along with hoaxed motives and a hoaxed (or patsied) perp wouldn’t also come a hoaxed weapon, hoaxed victims, hoaxed witnesses and misleading media artifacts and so forth. Sandy Hook was something I looked at very closely for months (having been primed by the wholly farcical Gabby Giffords event), and after looking through dozens of videos/ photographs hundreds of times, I’m confident… Read more »

Peter walker
Reader
Peter walker

St AUg you watch too many youtube videos and repeat their mantra without one ounce of evidence for any false flags ever.

StAug
Reader

erratum: “Even if a celebrity broke and blabbed, They would merely taint him/her as Nuts… and soon thereafter stage an utterly plausible suicide.”

MS
Reader
MS

To me though, it seems obvious that -outside of a distant war zone with a media blackout, you cannot entangle hundreds of people (doctors, nurses, first responders, police officers, witnesses) in a massive deception as the whole country looks on. I absolutely agree. IF we have a situation in which there are hundreds of doctors/hospitals/emergency teams involved then I would hesitate to say it was fakery. But that’s the very point – the ABSENCE of these hundreds of people. The ABSENCE of normal protocols such as triage. The ABSENCE of an evidence chain showing real victims being taken to real… Read more »

Admin
Reader

We aren’t in any way doubting you, but can you explain what “I know colleagues of doctors” means? Do you mean you personally know people who personally know people who have treated victims?
Would you be able to pass on any of their observations? It might be quite helpful when many find they are questioning if these politically-capitalised events are even real any more.

mog
Reader
mog

All I can pass on is that I have a doctor friend who used to work in Manchester hospitals A and E departments. He told me that he knew people through his profession who had been working long hours treating victims of the Arena bomb.
Pertinent to this exchange is the fact that this doctor is one of the few friends with whom I can openly share thoughts about the prevelence of false flag terrorism.

manfromatlan
Reader

Thank you for sharing. Your statement is more believable than those expecting young people fleeing for their lives to take video on their camera phones, or ghoulishly question why the authorities haven’t released CCTV images of the carnage. Human decency, perhaps?

flybow
Reader
flybow

Just asking.
Who do you work for?

StAug
Reader

Christ, I looked through about two dozen vids before I noticed that effect… if I turn that vid up again soon I’ll post it! But I did notice the same in more than one video, so it shouldn’t be too hard to come across again…

StAug
Reader

I’ve already seen enough tearless crying, and weird “witness” testimony (“We thought it was a balloon popping!”) and gratuitously vague, low-def video… wedded to a striking absence of blood-soaked i-phone coverage from the tens of thousands of i-phones in the area… to come to a conclusion about this event, thanks.
Scott Creighton does his reliably good breakdown of it here:
https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2017/05/23/as-polls-shift-in-england-and-conservatives-start-to-lose-ground-terrorism/

Devan
Reader

The US Department of Homeland Security claims terrorists “have proven to be relentless, patient, opportunistic, and flexible, learning from experience and modifying tactics and targets to exploit perceived vulnerabilities and avoid observed strengths”. John Mueller and Mark Stewart found – with remarkably few exceptions- the terrorists involved in attacks against the US since 9/11 were “incompetent, ineffective, unintelligent, idiotic, ignorant, inadequate, unorganized, misguided, muddled, amateurish, dopey, unrealistic, moronic, irrational, and foolish. And in nearly all of the cases where an operative from the police or from the Federal Bureau of Investigation was at work (almost half of the total), the most appropriate… Read more »

BigB
Reader
BigB

The most heavily surveilled country in the world, and when anything happens – the cameras are turned off. I’m becoming inclined to agree.

StAug
Reader

I admit I kinda miss the really flamboyantly bad productions of a decade ago, though… remember “Wayne Carver”, the head coroner in charge of the Sandy Hook thing? He was genius. I suppose they learned from that to keep the “interesting personalities” out of these narratives, but that’s the viewer’s loss, eh?

StAug
Reader

(erratum: HALF a decade ago)

BigB
Reader
BigB

If we want to understand events like the Manchester Arena: the broader cycles of violence, the need for terrorism, the ongoing maelstrom of global conflict, and why we need Huntingdon’s “War of Civlisations” at all – we need look no further than the reason that we engineered the pretext (9/11) and went in to destabilise the MENA region in the first place – Operation Iraqi Liberation. The clue is in the name, it has been hiding in plain sight ever since – OIL. Too simplistic? Well, we can make it as complicated as we like (which is what TPTB would… Read more »

Schlüter
Reader

See also:
„Staged „prevented“ Terror Attacks – Staged Terror?!“ https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2016/07/27/staged-prevented-terror-attacks-staged-terror/
Regards

flybow
Reader
flybow

Look how the tories get the people to stop looking at them.
Look over there! Terrorism.
Be afraid! The tories will protect you. Just a few more of your rights taken away in return.
Notice how there was a fake narrative that corbyn is soft on terrorism? Now this? Convenient eh? Few days ago i believe there was a drill in manchester. Thr drill alwqays precedes the “event”

Cloudslicer
Reader
Cloudslicer

On Monday afternoon, several hours before the Manchester bombing event, I predicted that something like this would happen very soon. My wife and I were discussing how the election campaigning was suddenly going very wrong for the Tories, who were reeling from the negative publicity they were receiving about their manifesto and in particular their plans for the ‘Dementia Tax’. Theresa May was on the ropes, being pummelled in car-crash interviews and press conferences and clearly well out of her depth. She was virtually hysterical at times, shrilly insisting that, ‘Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!’ when everyone could clearly… Read more »

Peter walker
Reader
Peter walker

Yeah The Tories really boosted their leadership in the election after Manchester didnt they? So much so they cling onto power only by merging with UDP. Conspiracy Theories never do hold water.

Red meister
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Red meister

In 1981 a gallup poll had Thatcher, to whom May has been likened, on an approval rating of 27% & the tory party facing oblivion in any election. Thatcher’s remedy was to find a small island that no-one in Britain had heard of, nor knew where it was: The Falklands. Huge unnecessary loss of life, including the sinking of the Belgrano as Falklands were invaded in 1982, subsequernt General Election, Labour lost seats, tories gained, although suffered an overal &age loss of votes of 1,5%. The rest is what it is. May looked for an obscure island, briefly toying with… Read more »

passerby
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passerby

Who would have thought that 41 years after the fall of communism it is now us who live in a country where one is forced to read between the lines; where you have to listen carefully to hear that what is not said, to read carefully to see that which is not written. The East European socialist dictatorships had censorship; here journalists have voluntarily created the Press Code of Practice, which achieves the same result. My suggestion to journalists: if you cannot write the whole truth, please do not bother and write nothing at all.

flaxgirl
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Sorry forgot to include link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzHfKEFDAL8

Cloudslicer
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Cloudslicer

Great link Flaxgirl. Thanks.

flaxgirl
Reader

There’s a great clip of an interview with Gore Vidal that relates to this.

flaxgirl
Reader

I think it’s important to distinguish between false flags, where the people really die, such as 9/11, and false flag hoaxes where they don’t. We’re being bombarded with these false flag hoaxes on an almost weekly basis now. It’s beyond ridiculous. All you have to do is go to YouTube and put in “event name” + “hoax” and see what the hoax analysts have come up with. And they always have plenty. The thing to do with any of these events is ask yourself, “Is there anything here that couldn’t have been staged?” “Do the injuries look as if they… Read more »

paulcarline
Reader

Thanks for this. Very important information. I seem to remember that a famous Hollywood action movie director was seen in the crowd (maybe even helping one of the fake injured) near to where the fake bomb went off at the Boston Marathon. 9/11 was of course the classic “scripted for TV” event. In Stockholm and London shots were fired (by police) before the ‘main event’ to scare people into running, clearing the scene for the vehicles and crisis actors to get into place (in Berlin it’s clear that the truck was backed into place – it was never driven through… Read more »

Cloudslicer
Reader
Cloudslicer

In Manchester the police announced that there would be a “controlled explosion” sometime after 8.30pm and a 200 metre ‘cordon sanitaire/exclusion zone’ – specifically for journalists and the media – was created around the arena. Why? Presumably the arrangers didn’t want anyone to see how they were doing the staging.

Could you please provide a reference for this information? If true then it’s highly significant.

flybow
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flybow

Does this help?

manfromatlan
Reader

All part of psychological warfare designed to keep people in a permanent state of reaction. The underlying agenda might probably be political. There is an election coming up, after all.

John
Reader
John

According to official reports, the person alleged to have murdered himself and a lot of mainly young girls had recently returned from a trip to Libya. If that is not enough to send the authorities alarm bells ringing, I don’t know what is. Libya – since the West overthrew Qaddafi – has turned into a total basket case of a country. It is divided and sub-divided up into competing and warring militias, including Daesh. If there is one place that can provide lessons in home-made terrorism it must be Libya. Why was he not kept under surveillance after his return?… Read more »

BigB
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BigB

After an event like this, naturally, a lot of the confusion will be genuine. The cynically manufactured Twitterstorm is 21st century ‘Window’ (a WWII radar countermeasure) designed to confuse – but is it all that confusing? Another bomb, another ‘Known Wolf’; Salman Ramadan Abedi (if that was his real name?) ISIS claimed him as a “Soldier of the Caliphate” – but then ISIS claim just about every attacker as theirs. Alex Thomson (an expert linguist) relayed through UK Column News that the man making the claim was Turkish – which may or may not be significant – it is too… Read more »

mog
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mog

Fair point about Labour.
Personally I find it more useful to think of the situation in terms of the Establishment vs. democracy. Labour have been an Establishment party and have a foreign policy record worse than any other party over the last century.
The current leader and membership though are a major departure from the past, and I think are worth supporting. It is an anti-Establishment movement, which is why literally everything will be thrown at it in response.

BigB
Reader
BigB

@mog: I’m not wishing to dissuade you in any way – your vote is your own – but I will share my POV. I thought like you, I even rejoined the Party specifically to help elect Jeremy – frankly I’ve been disheartened. Support for the White Helmets was the Rubicon for me. Even applying a less idealistic, and a more pragmatic view to the Manifesto – I cannot agree. For our future energy security – tidal lagoons and nuclear. NUCLEAR! NUCLEAR, FFS! That ties us to an increasingly destabilising and inherently violent energy market for 70-100 years. Like a fart… Read more »

mog
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mog

@ BigB Thanks, interested in your opinions. There is a lot in Labour’s stated program that I disagree with, a lot of things that are not really addressed by it. The mafia Banksters are in the City of London too as well you know, so I am not sure what your point is about the Troika and Euro elites. For me though, this is about a resurgent democratic pulse. If Corbyn was able to instigate a real democratising of the Labour Party, and thereby draw policy more and more from a growing membership, that would be something that I want… Read more »

BigB
Reader
BigB

@mog: I think (as does Chomsky) that the future lies with Momentum. If there were around 200 Corbyns instead of 1 (plus what, 30-40 he can count on?) allied with the power of the people? But, as I laid out above, these policies are disastrous, for the country and humanity. Unalloyed Corbynism is what I signed up for – when a lifetime CND campaigner advocates Trident and nuclear energy; a lifetime Euroskeptic advocates Single Market and Customs Union (but no Schengen?); and a lifetime pacifist, who used to talk of American hegemony, now talks of an “erratic” America and “more… Read more »

mog
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mog

Yes the Chatham House speech was remarkable, for the fact that the former chair of the Stop The War Coalition was speaking to the Council on Foreign Relations, but also for the fact that the Labour team and Corbyn have obviously made concessions to the war party in an election bid. I guess I don’t view Corbyn as ‘caught in a wheel’ as much as you. These policies can change, there are processes, politics is a process. I, at this point, believe that Corbyn would push for those changes if in a position to do so. I also would not… Read more »

mog
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mog

Like you say, the election is in jeopardy, and is being manipulated in a security policy hysteria.
This all tells me that the Establishment are more worried by the Corbyn movement than most people acknowledge. Once you start getting major ralies and celebs signing up, the thing can get a momentum of its own and spiral.
The terror attack obviously has put the Orwellian boot on this.

BigB
Reader
BigB

@mog: here’s a rhetorical question, regarding change – given the way the party is stacked with Blairites (in both the PLP and NEC) which direction is the Party going to change? In a hypothetical election win, the PLP will have say 50-70 new MPs. Will they all be pro-Corbyn?
The clincher for me is that my local candidate is a ‘limousine liberal’ whose ideas on foreign policy extend to whether or not there are avocados at Waitrose. I’d basically be voting anti-Corbyn!