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Dec 5, 2017 6:07 AM

There are only two ways to sustain relative equality within the current paradigm:
1) Tax the rich directly – with the issue as to whether they will leave, taking their capital with them;
2)Expect the poor to be better at capitalism than the rich, hence allowing Govt borrowing on their behalf to be successful.
Of course, what the rich want is victors’ justice: behave like a psychopath to create the poor in the first place, then ‘create charities’ to make out like you were not a psychopath in the first place. The thought that behaving more humanely in the first place might grant the less favoured dignity without humiliation is anathema.
What the hard left want is ‘nationalisation’ meaning ownership and management by the elite: the concept of rail season ticket holders being temporary shareholders rather than customers is laughed out of court. What is different about their money? Nothing, but their voice cannot challenge faceless investors in some finance fund half way around the world. It might cause good strategic decisions for passengers to be taken and that would never do.
So then you have to ask about opting out of global capitalism. Tell the rich to take their money and leave. No killing, no wealth appropriation. Just ‘go away, you are no longer welcome here’.
No point in thinking about that without thinking through all the implications.
They are enormous.
It is why no sane politician would ever consider it without totalitarian rule for 15-20 years.

Dec 12, 2017 1:28 AM
Reply to  rtj1211

Things about today’s situation in the US are starting to remind me of France just before the French Revolution. I think the 1% had better start considering the similarities.

Dec 2, 2017 3:31 PM

Reblogged this on Worldtruth.

Dave Hansell
Dave Hansell
Dec 2, 2017 10:27 AM

The strategy of the Conservative and Unionist Party, it supporters and voters is not the only strategy in need to consideration right now.
The implication of beven’s point below also need attention. That point being the strategy of the malcontents in the Labour Party who have not and never will reconcile themselves with anything which is not pure Blairism. Having failed with their post Brexit referendum coup and their attempt to heavily lose to the Tories in this year’s GE they are still refusing to recognise the world has moved on and will not work with the majority of the Party at all levels from PLP down Constituency and Ward Branch levels.
Whilst Facebook and Twitter were full of pictures of Labour Party Branch members with their local MP on the freezing cold streets around the country last Saturday, on the National Campaign Day following the budget, our MP walked past our stall without even a nod acknowledgment of our presence. The same MP and her agent husband were tweeting indignant nonsense about how the party had damaged the country, echoing the media this section of the Party had briefed, by failing to get behind the illiterate Ian Murray amendment the other week. This week, without any recognition of the irony, the target we local council reselection a in Haringey and Momentum being an entryists organisation.
All keeping their particular pot boiling. Our MP’s agent/researcher husband posted an interesting tweet the other week, to coincide with a David Miliband interview, on the need for a Macron figure in the UK – David Miliband being that figure. The only up and coming “opportunity” for another attempt to oust Corbyn is a disastrous set of results in next May’s Local Council elections. It seems too much of a coincidence that a number of contentious local issues in different parts of the country, where the local authority is run by a Labour majority group who are largely legacy placemen and women from the Blair and Brown New Labour years, are having a negative impact on the Labour brand for local voters.
Examples include the sell off in Haringey ; the bins issue in Birmingham; a recent decision in Calderdale to reduce the number of roads gritted in icy weather; the trees and the Amey contract, along with the flood defence plans in Sheffield. All of which are having a negative impact on local Labour voters who don’t differentiate between the old discredited Blair Worshipping cadre in the middle of the Party hierarchy, running Councils, District and Regional levels of the Party organisation, and the new infusion at the grassroots and top of the Party.
It’s almost as if there was a deliberate scorched earth strategy being applied.

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle
Dec 2, 2017 2:44 PM
Reply to  Dave Hansell

Blairism was the price the Labour party paid for successive pastings inflicted by Thatch’ – even then (’97) the neoliberal seeds had already been sown resulting today in the kind of social regression that characterised the period from which neoliberalism first emerged, i.e. the era of child labour, slavery, and extreme wealth inequality.
To be fair to Labour they are fightening a battle against an electorate deeply steeped in the kind of establishment myths and lies required to maintain the status quo – even the so-called liberal media were running endless stories about Corbyn accusing him of being a dangerous Marxist because he wants to improve health care, education, or for wanting to reduce the rising tide of debt amongst low and median income families.
Its an almighty con maintained by cynical media figures who are either ignorant or more likely indifferent to their role in perpetuating fundamental divisions in power (i.e. plenty for the rich, little for the poor).
If you look around the QT panel you could see how uneasy they all looked as Mark revealed this simpe truth, perhaps because they recognise how they are all complicit with the abuse.
“All past oligarchies have fallen from power either because they ossified or because they grew soft. Either they became stupid and arrogant, failed to adjust themselves to changing circumstances, and were overthrown; or they became liberal and cowardly, made concessions when they should have used force, and once again were overthrown. … It is in the ranks of the Party, and above all the Inner Party, that the true war enthusiasm is found. … If human equality is to be for ever averted — if the High, as we have called them, are to keep their places permanently — then the prevailing mental condition must be controlled insanity.”

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Dec 2, 2017 10:11 PM
Reply to  Harry Stotle

Been reading another one of C J Sansom’s ‘Shardlake’ series recently.
Not a lot has changed since Henry VIII’s reign of terror.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Dec 1, 2017 11:16 PM

Mark does more of a paste and sticky tape.
George Carlin, bless his departed soul, NAILS it to the mast.

Dec 1, 2017 8:41 PM

Funny how comedians are considered such suitable “other” guests on QT. It seems to be a modern thing though as I don’t remember Tommy Cooper or Rod Hull and Emu being asked for their opinions. Whilst I agree with what he says I would like to point out that he himself is one of the rich (compared to me anyway); and that he, for reasons I cannot fathom, still writes for The Independent which for many years has been a joke. Oh I think I just answered my own question…

Dec 1, 2017 9:31 PM
Reply to  johnny

What difference does his personal wealth or any other personal attribute make to whether or not he is right? It’s almost as if you were trying to deflect the point

Dec 1, 2017 10:24 PM
Reply to  Admin

Not at all. I clearly stated that I agreed with him. I questioned why he (and other comedians) are on QT in the first place, and why he writes for The Independent when it is generally full of crap and has been for years. I made the comment about his wealth because he talks about “the rich” as if they were a third party

Dec 1, 2017 6:21 PM

Meanwhile Eddie Izzard, a proud Blairite, is running for the Labour party NEC and stands a good chance of getting elected.