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More on the Skripal/Douma alleged false flag connection

Theresa May, March 2018

In regard to our suggestion, the latest move against Damascus was predominantly a UK project, a link was sent to us today to an article by Thierry Meyssan on Voltairenet that’s certainly interesting.

Published March 20 it puts forward the idea the Skripal affair was a false flag intended to be the launch pad for a wholesale diplomatic attack on Russia that Meyssan suggests would initiate a “new cold war.”

While it’s possible to question this terminology (many would suggest we already have a “new cold war” and are on the verge of it becoming hot), his narrative offers a valid interpretation of recent events, and indeed looks more persuasive today that when it was written.

What Meyssan suggests is as follows:

Back in March a projected coup was planned between the UK government and the neocons in Washington to create an irresistible drive to a) launch a full blown assault on Damascus and b) get Russia removed from the UN Security Council.

The means was to be first the Skripal incident and immediately thereafter a large scale false flag chemical weapon attack on Ghouta.

Rex Tillerson, then US Secretary of State, was involved in this plan.

However by some means (Meyssan doesn’t say how) the Syrian and Russian intelligence services became aware of the plan, and realised it was not the Pentagon behind it, but “some other agency.”

The Russians immediately alerted the media to a possible false flag.

At the same time, bypassing diplomatic channels (because he was concerned to avoid others who were siding with the “plotters”), Russian Chief of Staff, General Valeri Gerasimov contacted his American counterpart General Joseph Dunford to inform him of his fears of a game-changing intel-sponsored event in Syria. Dunford in turn informed Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, who told Trump.

Since this apparent plot was going on without the knowledge of the White House & Pentagon, Trump then told Mike Pompeo, the head of the CIA, to investigate.

As a result Trump became convinced Tillerson was involved and soon after, fired him.

This, in essence, is Meyssan’s story. He cites no source for the claims about back-channel communications, and we can’t verify them even slightly. But we all know Russia did indeed warn of a pending false flag in Syria several times throughout March, and developments since the time of Meyssan’s writing lend credence to the broad thrust of interpretation.

The orchestrated & hysterical response of the UK state machine to the Skripal event doesn’t just hint at agenda rollout, it shouts it. The idea this was indeed the first act of a make or break plan is certainly more than believable. Indeed we all heard the suggestion about removing Russia from the UNSC repeated in the media at the height of the hysteria.

Whether Meyssan is right or wrong, we absolutely did just see an orchestrated, high level operation unfold, apparently designed to discredit Russia finally and forever.

It suggests new levels of idiot-insanity going on. Not only is such a plan amateurish in conception (kicking Russia off the UNSC, even if achievable, is not going to suddenly neutralise their political and military power), it would seem to have been doubly so in execution.

The Skripal story is a farce. But the apparent attempts to go forward with the “chemical attack” when all rationale for it was gone and when Douma itself was about to fall, shows stupidity beyond comprehension. If this was the UK, as the Russians claim, rather than rescuing themselves they simply added another embarrassing failure to the list, and dug themselves even deeper into easily-exposed crime.

The entire situation must be a warning, and not just the usual cliché about the US being a danger to world peace.

It’s not “the US”, it’s an international grouping of ideologues and other cranks, focused as much, maybe even more, in the UK as in America. If Meyssan is right these people are highly placed, but operating subversively within their own governments. Of course we have always known these thing are true to some extent, but this latest event seems to be taking this subversion to a new level.

Seventeen years ago a  small group of highly placed individuals in the US government may have engineered or at very least allowed 9/11 to happen for their own geopolitical ends. We’d be naive to consider a second such event to be impossible.

It also seems clear those enacting this plan initially had little idea how dangerous it really was, and were to some extent astounded by the Russian reaction, and the horror expressed by the more sane elements in international government. This is also significant.

It’s a cliché in some alt media now to say the elites want WW3 and to talk about “population reduction” or some other meme. But, while it’s certainly true there is a strong eugenicist de-population cult in the upper echelons, it’s highly improbable any of them would choose a thermonuclear war as a viable method.

The real danger isn’t that a group of ubermenschen or Bond-villains want to incinerate humanity for vague and unspecified reasons, it’s that the deep heart of the Russophobic cabal is too dogma-driven and infested with idiots to understand the real world results of their plans.

We can be sure they won’t have learned from this and won’t be deterred from more of the same or worse in future. And if their next remedial scheme doesn’t get stymied by circumstance or nifty footwork, no one will be more surprised than they are when it kicks of WW3.

But they do have some opposition within the state machine, and always have.  There were people in the US and UK intelligence agencies who didn’t want to lie about WMDs, and there are people today in the UK FCO who off-record told Craig Murray about the lies being forced on them regarding the Skripal case.  These are people with enough smarts to want to avoid real confrontation with Russia, however prepared they are to play the public word games.

I think it’s important we address this more nuanced reality rather than opting for the security of familiar memes.

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vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 18, 2018 3:34 AM

Press Conference of Alexander Shulgin, Russian Representative to the OPCW
Streamed live on 16 Apr 2018
It comes with interpretation in English.

Cassandra
Cassandra
Apr 17, 2018 6:44 PM

Pt. 2: WHY WOULD ASSAD DO IT?
The French govt also argues that the use of CW in East-Ghouta was both in a tactical and a strategical sense a (sort of) military stroke of genius but I’ll spare you the BS except for one argument:
The „strategic“ aspect was that Assad wanted to punish the civilians in „rebel-held“ areas and by creating „terreur et panic“ they achieved their aim of surrender.
„Because the war is not over for Assad, he wants to demonstrate thru these ruthless attacks that resistance is futile …“
This is bollocks of course because the Russians and the SAA are winning and have painstakingly negotiated with the „rebels“ and arranged for them to be evacuated in buses to Idlib. (Can anyone imagine the US-military doing such a thing after 7yrs of war?)
AND President Assad knows very well that the civilians in rebel-held areas were captives, treated like slaves, starved for food (sold by the synthetic “rebels” at exorbitant prices) and brutally executed if they refused to live under Sharia-law or supported Assad. So there was absolutely no need to „punish“ them for anything.
Coincidentally, high-ranking former British military officers totally disagree with the French “assessment” …
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5616533/Former-head-Britains-special-forces-says-Assad-doesnt-need-use-gas.html
… but the French stick to their surreal script ….
„Given the operational situation in Eastern-Ghouta on April 7, we estimate with high-confidence that the responsibility [for the non-existent CW-attack] can be attributed to the Syrian Regime“. (Sound familiar?)
And finally they put in this kind of „disclaimer“ when they say
„Les services francaises … are not in the possession of any information which would support the thesis, that these armed groups in East-Ghouta have endeavored to acquire CW for themselves or that they were already available to them.“
(Now that is a BIG Lie …even the MSM has reported that the “rebels” DID use CW ( i.e. see Carla del Ponte, Seymour Hersh and Scott Ritter on this)
„Furthermore we regard a manipulation of the released pictures as implausible, because the groups present in Ghouta had no access to the means necessary to exercise a communication-manoeuvre of this magnitude“ (!)
(this ridiculous claim does not even deserve a comment… their “PR” has been highly effective since it was directed and organized by MI6 …see voltairenet for more)
The biggest lie comes at the end when they claim that Assad has not declared all his CW to the OPCW, has kept a CLANDESTINE CW-programm all the time (since 2013), has intensified the use of CW continually and that the Russians are in on this.
And then follow the (by now familiar) highly-manipulative phrases which are supposed to be imprinted on our brains now:
– “Undoubtedly a chemical attack was launched against civilians on April 7 in Douma”
– “THERE IS NO OTHER PLAUSIBLE SCENARIO then the action of the SAA (CW-attack) as part of a major offensive to retake East-Ghouta”
– “Russia has undeniably actively supported these operations and the clandestine policy of the SARG for the use of CW”
As Sergei Lavrov recently said to the BBC “the proof is (apparently) in the punishment” .. it is crystal clear that neither the Briitsh nor the French gov’t is interested in a thorough, forensic investigation (whether in Salisburgy or in Douma) and the fact they have acted as prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner BEFORE any impartial investigation took place is proof enough of their duplicity …
What I find extremely puzzling is this: The Russians now say they have “irrefutable evidence” that Britain has instigated a false flag Douma (and obviously in Salisbury as well) . SO WHY don’t they show it to us???? Why not publish the findings of the Swiss lab? Is this some weird diplomatic code of conduct they adhere to?

Cassandra
Cassandra
Apr 17, 2018 6:17 PM

President MACRON recently stated that he has „proof“ that CW were used in Douma and that it was the Syrian Army. Now the French govt has released the „evaluation nationale“ but it seems no-one is paying attention to it.
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/content/download/528742/9123389/file/180414%20-%20Syrie%20-%20Synthe%CC%80se%20-%20Les%20faits.pdf
After reading the document carefully one can only reach one conclusion:
There is NO PROOF whatsover in this evaulation and it is obviously addressed to an audience considered to be incapable of critical thought. The format of the document is rather revealing because it contains no offical ID from a French „service“ or ministry (just „Republique Francaise“) and the authors are unknown (so no official takes personal responsibility for its content, like the phony „assessment“ on CW released by the WH in 2017)
//assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3553049/Syria-Chemical-Weapons-Report-White-House.pdf
In order to find out who committed a crime, forensic evidence is extremely important, as we all know from detective thrillers and court-room dramas. But in this case, there is NO FORENSIC EVIDENCE (no criminal investigation by a CSI-unit). There are only unverified pics and videos posted on YouTube by the White Helmets (WH).
It is impossible to verify WHERE these pics/vids were taken and also WHEN because the metadata have been tempered with. The WH of course have NO CREDIBILITY whatsoever, being a cover for the massive „strategic information“ (incessantly demonizing Assad) created by MI6, who also ran the massive PR for the artificial „rebels“ in Syria. (See voltairenet.org for more on this).
And yet this is the basis for the „assessment“ of the French govt. They write that
„French experts have analyzed the symptoms (visible in the pics and vids) … which can be described as follows (respiratory distress, asphyxiation, cyanosis, skin-burns, excessive salivation, etc.) Taken together, these symptoms are characteristic für a CW-attack, especially for suffocating-agents. The use of asthma-sprays supports the thesis that such agents were used.“
So instead of a forensic examination and autopsy, all we get is an interpretation of symptoms to fit the frame of the Assad-gasses-his-own-people horror-narrative. To this, they add statements from anonymous people working (in Douma) for medical NGOs like UOSSM (created in France in 2011, PR-front group) and SAMS (US directed front group) who claim that about a hundred people „stormed“ their health facilities in Douma and at least 40 died as a result of the CW-attack.
They use medical staff of course as „CREDIBILITY-ENHANCERS“ because in general people tend to trust doctors, nurses and paramedics, hence the „White Helmets“ (and the faux „nurse“ telling the heart-wrenchning, invented tale of the incubator-babies in Iraq in 1990)
I asked a friend who works for one of the biggest chemical companies in Germany (BASF) about the symptoms and he said they are consistent with a chlorine-exposure but that does NOT mean that it could ONLY have been chlorine. Very similar symptoms occur when people have been exposed to SMOKE-INHALATION (German: Rauchgasvergiftung)
And now it gets really interesting because a video has been released by Russian and Syrian TV stations in which two medical students who work for the emergency department of the Douma hospital, say that the people shown in the WH-video had indeed been exposed to SMOKE-INHALATION.
A house in Douma had been hit by an airstrike which caused a fire in the lower floors and the partial collapse of the upper floors. So these people had breathing difficulties and were taken to the emergency dept of the hospital where they were given first aid. Suddenly some men appeared and shouted „this was a gas-attack!“. They then began to douse the patients with cold water (from a hose), which caused panic (children screamed of course). These „dramatic“ scenes were filmed then the strangers disappeared as quickly as they had arrived.
I cannot verify if these medical students told the truth, but given the political context, I have much more reason to believe them than the White Helmets or the French DGSE.
Just one more thing, the brochure from BASF about the dangers of chlorine contains one sentence that caught my eye:
https://www.basf.com/documents/corp/de/sustainability/employees/occupational-medicine/medical-guidelines/Chlor_D_BASF_medLeitlinien_D003.pdf ( German)
„Wasser verstärkt die oxidative und ätzende Wirkung von Chlor“
(WATER exacerbates the corrosive effect of chlorine (because hydrochlorid acid is formed through the moisture)
So why would medical experts then hose down these alleged „chlorine“ victims? Of course they would not. So this too, seenm to confirm that the whole scene was staged.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 17, 2018 6:56 PM
Reply to  Cassandra

That was an excellent read, thankyou.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 18, 2018 2:47 AM
Reply to  Cassandra

This is NOT a ‘French’ report. It is an Israeli Zionist pile of black propaganda, no doubt dictated by the CRIF, the de facto government of the slave state formerly known as ‘France’.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 17, 2018 4:54 PM

Doing a little more tunnelling into the Rabbit hole.
A Bill Clinton reference to Karl Rove led to some interesting events surrounding the recently pardoned Scooter Libby.
http://bfy.tw/AKAh PARTICIPATE CLICK IT
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2018/04/whats-empire-war-machine-ever-done-for_17.html
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2018/04/whats-empire-war-machine-ever-done-for.html
@KarlRove https://bit.ly/2HFtLlh opposing Military Industrial Complex isn’t equal2 Putin Apologism. War(s) Crimes of aggression started for false reasons With no proper Investigative & War reporting from corporate media how 2 hold http://bfy.tw/AKAh #warmongerstoaccount
5:26 PM – 17 Apr 2018
https://twitter.com/RogerGLewis/status/986264537547632640
http://www.wetube.io/video/uss-cole-yemen-2000-whats-the-empire-war-machine-ever-done-for-us-uss-libert-2/

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 17, 2018 5:15 PM
Reply to  rogerglewis
Old Pepper
Old Pepper
Apr 17, 2018 12:18 PM

The criminal group led by the red clown and the old Mare with the skewed muzzle continues the provocations. On Monday, the British representative in the OPCW accused the Russians of non-admission of OPCW experts in Duma. At the same time, the OPCW experts while in Damascus were expecting a solution of the Security Department of the UN, because controlled by the Britons the bandits were instructed to fire at the place where the white helmets organized the performance with a “chemical attack”. At the same time, the United States began to yell that Russian do not allow the OPCW experts to the Duma, seeking to eliminate traces of the “chemical attack”. This gang HIGHLY LIKELY thinks we’re all idiots.
The world is already clear that no poisoning of the Tablets was not, as there was no chemical attack by Assad. Clown and Mare managed to negotiate with the Russians and they did not respond to the shelling of Syria. Seeing that the Russian did not respond, the bandits completely insolen. And now they can arrange another chemical provocation and hit in Syria already on the Russians. And is not the fact that the Russian will not answer. This is war. I do not want because of a bunch of idiots, teasing the Russian bear, to a slaughter in which no one will survive.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 17, 2018 9:30 AM

Watching the Commons Statement Yesterday from Theresa May and reflecting overnight I revisited some interactive Dada.
https://steemit.com/dumberanddada/@tonefreqhz/so-whats-the-industrial-military-complex-ever-done-for-us-interactivedada-karlrove-actorsinhistory-dumberanddouma
https://twitter.com/RogerGLewis/status/986157095945953280
We are watching Karl Rove’s actors in history. What is in the grey space and what do we have between our Ears?

Vera
Vera
Apr 16, 2018 8:56 PM

@blackcatte
1] How well do you know and how long have you known Putin?
2] When did you last talk to him?

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 17, 2018 2:42 PM
Reply to  Vera

Is that the best you can do, troll?
Return to your CIA masters. Tell them that you have failed.

tomiejones
tomiejones
Apr 16, 2018 6:58 PM

Reblogged this on circusbuoy.

Goldmember
Goldmember
Apr 16, 2018 4:03 PM

The funniest part of Meyssan’s story is that Trump asked DCI Pompeo to investigate the false flag. What a nube.
Think it through. They didn’t say cabal, they said agency. DoS is not an agency, it’s a department. ‘Ideologues and cranks?’ ‘Highly placed, but operating subversively within their own governments?’ You are describing CIA.
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/
That small group of highly placed individuals who did 911? That was CIA and their moles in key departments: Brennan, Blee, Cofer Black, Wilshire, Bikowsky, Bowman. The deep heart of the Russophobic cabal is not some secret society, it’s a longstanding CIA program. These programs look international because CIA uses eyes-only intelligence liaisons to conceal the dirty work they delegate to other countries’ agents.
The opposition within CIA is also institutionally chartered. CIA has a routine: dewy-eyed boy scout analysts secretly decry the insanity of the operations people. Then when the shit hits the fan, CIA publishes the anlysis and uses it to blame somebody else. That’s how they blamed Vietnam on the Pentagon, with their tongue-in-cheek Pentagon Papers. And that’s how they blamed Tillerson for their very own CIA plan and conspiracy for war.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 17, 2018 2:49 PM
Reply to  Goldmember

This is a very promising thesis. I hope you can expand on it.
Another angle might be Nixon/Watergate/WaPo. Or Reagan/IranContra/North. Of course, JFK/Vietnam/Oswald goes without saying.

Ciaran Goggins
Ciaran Goggins
Apr 16, 2018 3:24 PM

Was Calvin a Calvinist? If one believes in double predestination we already know the answer.

physicsandmathsrevision
physicsandmathsrevision
Apr 16, 2018 12:35 PM

Here’s a lecture given to FSB (KGB) students by a Russian professor. He says the world is governed by a “Conceptual Power” that exists above elected governments and that this template has been in place since 1350 B.C.. Very interesting at the very least:

Alan
Alan
Apr 16, 2018 11:01 AM

Another article by Mr Meyssan
http://www.voltairenet.org/article200375.html
refers to the British regime
“…is elaborated by an elite gathered around the monarch, outside of any form of popular control…”
The idea of a deep state seems too convenient. In every sphere the regime exploits the population for it’s own requirements, if indeed the regime adheres to a nationality. Cold war, hot war are regime terms, all that matters is knowing who not to trust.

vexarb
vexarb
Apr 16, 2018 9:49 AM

Re BZ (British Zyklon?) the following lengthy clip from Saker’s “Curious Incident” discussion reflects OffG’s raison d’etre: that Facts Really ought to be Sacred. The MSM have abandoned this principle, as have the Leaders of F, UK and US regimes among others in the Western world. This is a huge reversal of human progress, and extremely dangerous for the world because the West now has runaway Technology without Ethics. BTL Saker:
vot tak on April 16, 2018 · at 1:09 am UTC 14.04.2018
Embassy Press Officer comments on the findings of the Swiss experts regarding the Salisbury incident
https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6486
“Q. Is there any new information regarding the findings of experts from Switzerland in connection with the Salisbury poisoning?
A. According to information from the Swiss Federal Institute for NBC-protection in Spiez, its experts received samples collected in Salisbury by the OPCW specialists and finished testing them on 27 March.
The experts of the Institute discovered traces of toxic chemical called “BZ” and its precursors. It is a Schedule 2 substance under the Chemical Weapons Convention.
“BZ” is a chemical agent, which is used to temporary incapacitate people. The desired psychotoxic effect is reached in 30-60 minutes after application of the agent and lasts up to four days. According to the information the Russian Federation possesses, this agent was used in the armed forces of the USA, United Kingdom and several others NATO member states. No stocks of such substance ever existed either in the Soviet Union or in the Russian Federation.
In addition, the Swiss specialists discovered strong concentration of traces of the nerve agent of A-234 type in its initial states as well as its decomposition products.
In view of the experts, such concentration of the A-234 agent would result in inevitable fatal outcome of its administration. Moreover, considering its high volatility, the detection of this substance in its initial state (pure form and high concentration) is extremely suspicious as the samples have been taken several weeks since the poisoning.
It looks highly likely that the “BZ” nerve agent was used in Salisbury. The fact that Yulia Skripal and Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey have already been discharged from hospital, and Sergei Skripal is on his way to recovery, only supports such conclusion.
All this information was not mentioned in the final OPCW report at all.
Considering the above, we have numerous serious questions to all interested parties, including the OPCW.”

Sushi       on April 16, 2018  ·  at 3:04 am UTC

That statement on the part of RF embassy is good to see as it confirms my own supposition as recorded in Part X.
It is always nice to go out on a limb and then discover the rest of the world supports the finding rather than sawing off the limb 🙂
But I believe the big take-away from this event is the fact that the state is no longer held in check by the MSM. This means that the ordinary citizen is paying for an entity which is actively acting to subvert the interests of the citizenry. This is very dangerous.
These [truther] articles each get about 10,000 page views. This is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the total voting population of the UK, or France, or FRG or US or CA. If you believe this information is valuable then you should share it. You do not have to agree with all that I have written. It is quite possible I have made errors, drawn incorrect conclusions from the evidence etc, etc.

The key issue is that the MSM is not engaged in a review of an incident which, on any degree of review fails on the merits and is quickly exposed as false, deceptive and grounds for vilification of another state which I believe to be innocent of the allegations made against it. If I could find evidence of RF involvement I would gladly write that. But I cannot locate any such evidence.
This event is likely to be used to further justify illegal use of force in Syria. If the public comes to the belief that “Bad Vlad” is pulling all the strings then they will accept the march toward global war.
The problem is that the person really pulling all the strings is located at Number 10. If bad things happen they have a taxpayer financed bunker to retreat to. The ordinary citizen is not even assured of a working NHS.
_So if you find this series of value then address it with your family and other contacts._
Cheers!
WJ
WJ
Apr 16, 2018 4:44 AM
WJ
WJ
Apr 16, 2018 4:42 AM

US now explicitly commits itself to stay in Syria for purpose of…..Iran.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/nikki-haley-seems-to-be-saying-us-will-remain-in-syria-as-long-as-iran-exists

thorella
thorella
Apr 16, 2018 12:32 AM

There is a very powerful deep state in the UK. I think its leadership is hidden deep in the Privy Council and enforced by MI5/MI6. It runs a hidden economy financed through crime – fraud against UK taxpayers, foreign countries etc, It controls the judiciary when need be. This speech by Gerald James although old gives some idea;
http://zersetzen.wikispaces.com/file/view/Gerald+Reaveley+James.pdf
The next link shows the involvement in crime:
https://goggzilla.wordpress.com/2017/01/10/not-only-was-the-mets-investigation-into-the-costello-affidavit-a-sham-but-so-was-the-authorities-entire-conduct-of-barry-beardalls-appeal/

intergenerationaltrauma
intergenerationaltrauma
Apr 16, 2018 12:11 AM

Excellent post Catte. Thanks. There is certainly serious dissension within the ranks of the U.S. establishment or we would not be seeing the various fits and stops and starts that have characterized both Trump’s appointments, and his subsequent removal of various appointed advisors, as well as his erratic foreign policy actions since he entered office. Trump himself was never “the problem” for the collective U.S. deep state, it was Trump’s stated goal of “getting along with Russia” that has prompted close to open warfare between factions of the U.S. ruling class and institutional structures. What is amazing to behold is watching almost the entirety of the leadership of the most powerful Western nations on earth morph before our eyes into a group of slapstick carnival clowns selling snake oil and war as if they were some sort of magic elixir sure to prolong their much cherished Western hegemony. Recent events have pulled the mask off of the facade of “Western democracy” to reveal the grinning death mask of a dying elite power structure, delusional, paranoid and grandiose to the bitter end.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Apr 15, 2018 11:48 PM

Fascinating article but …

Seventeen years ago a small group of highly placed individuals in the US government may have engineered or at very least allowed 9/11 to happen for their own geopolitical ends

???
May have? Allowed?
How many articles has OffG published on 9/11 that show unequivocally that it was an inside job? Seventeen years later with the vision of hindsight for those of us who did swallow the lies we can see how utterly silly we were. We can see so clearly how steel frame skyscrapers do not collapse symmetrically due to fires, how a band of men armed with boxcutters cannot negotiate the most restricted airspace in the world without an effective stand down – provided so very conveniently by 21 drills occurring on the morning of 9/11, some of which exactly matched the alleged real life events.
No further investigation needs to be conducted to know that 9/11 was an inside job – only to sort out the guilty and exactly what happened. In fact, all you need to know that 9/11 was an inside job is the undisputed 2.25 seconds of free fall acceleration in the collapse of WTC-7. That tiny piece of information is all you need. For free fall, the 82 steel support columns must have given way at virtually the same time and for that to have happened only controlled demolition could have been the cause … and controlled demolition can only mean inside job.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 12:03 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

9/11 irrefutably, I would say, was a MOSSAD operation, with US sayanim, and Sabbat Goy involvement, the US side centred on that Zionist Israel First cabal, the ‘neo-conservatives’. Christopher Bollyn does an excellent job of outlining the Zionist ‘ Clash of Civilizations’ and ‘War on (Islam) Terror’ projects, the latter, in particular, an endeavour of Netanyahu’s for decades. Everything that flowed from that event, the genocides in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and the destruction inflicted on those unlucky lands, the crucifixion of Syria, the regular, ritual, massacres in Gaza, are all creations of the Zionist elite, and follow closely the strategy outlined in the Oded Yinon Plan of 1982, which was reiterated by Netanyahu in the ‘A Clean Break’ manifesto.
Zionist control easily explains May’s involvement, as she is a groveling toady of the Netanyahu regime and the Holy State that sits above mere ‘International Law’. Apparently, when Netanyahu visited Putin in Sochi a year or so ago, and made certain demands on Russia in regard to Syria, and Putin rebuffed him, so great was Netanyahu’s distress at this insubordination by a mere goy that he lost self-control and went a little hysterical. Hence the renewed determination to keep the vivisection of Syria going, and prepare for Holy War on Lebanon and Iran. Of course Bibi’s path is that of the Masada Complex, he being a wannabe zealot ‘hero’, and he seems oblivious to the reality that unending Israeli aggression will only bring about Israel’s destruction, in the manner that it has inflicted ruination on its neighbours for 70 years.

bevin
bevin
Apr 16, 2018 2:08 AM

“..Let’s be as rigorous about the sceptical argument as we are about the official story.”
Absolutely agree.
It is quite reasonable for someone to be convinced that, to use a popular argument on this thread, Corbyn is an MI 6 agent but if there is no evidence of this cited not only is it impossible to insist on the ‘irrefutable’ nature of the assertion but to do so is to discredit oneself, the discussion in question and, fairly quickly, the blog in its entirety.
It is one of life’s little ironies that off guardian, which insists that we weigh evidence rigorously where claims by the state are concerned, is becoming something of a refuge for assertions based on evidence just as sketchy and circumstantial as those put forward by the likes of Freedland and the BBC.
So 9/11 might have been a Mossad operation, just as Putin might have ordered the attack in Salisbury and the White helmets could be well meaning humanitarians discovering gas attacks.
Let us see the evidence before we agree that something is irrefutable, even when it is something as clear cut as the fact that Corbyn (already revealed to be a Czech spy, having once had tea with one) has had tea with an MI 6 agent and is therefore, connecting the dots, completely unreliable and no more to be supported than, say, Boris Johnson. The proof being that he did not oppose, we are told the Magnitsky Act, sponsored by his fellow agent (and PLP member) Ian Austin.
At any rate the Israeli Embassy can now call off their campaign against Corbyn who is revealed to be almost as big a friend of Israel as Blair- who even Roman Polanski knew was a CI Agent.

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 3:25 AM
Reply to  bevin

It is one of life’s little ironies that off guardian, which insists that we weigh evidence rigorously where claims by the state are concerned, is becoming something of a refuge for assertions based on evidence just as sketchy and circumstantial as those put forward by the likes of Freedland and the BBC.

Excuse me? Since when have we been guilty of that?

always write
always write
Apr 16, 2018 10:00 AM
Reply to  bevin

the buildings collapsed because they where sub standard shite built by the mafia, who controlled the main contractors including concrete, especially concrete as they still do in Italy
several years ago a company called Testwell Laboratories got taken to court in New York for falsified concrete and rebar reports, this is why those buildings collapsed, its called racketeering
Donald Trump infact had problems with concrete which was not strong enough, that was reported in the NY Times in 1997, a firm called Laquila supplied the ready mix, interesting name, because its the same name of a town badly damaged in central Italy years ago by an earth quake in 2007 again its stated that the high death toll, over 300 hundred, was due to substandard concrete and mafia infiltration of this industry
I’d suggest people look more closely at this side of things before coming up with elaborate theories about how buildings could collapse as they did, its simple really if entire floors had crap substandard concrete and incorrectly placed,or no rebar, plus inspections were falsely made then you’ll end up with a tower of crap, which collapses as it did
even after after the buildings were rubble the mafie got involved as they basically stole the scrap and sold it on

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 10:50 AM
Reply to  always write

Ludicrous rubbish, but at least it is inventive.

BigB
BigB
Apr 16, 2018 10:59 AM

WTC 7 did not collapse from faulty concrete!

always write
always write
Apr 16, 2018 11:08 AM
Reply to  BigB

how do you know?
have you ever worked on construction sites?
i have including bent ones, ones built like shite ,for example it didn’t supprise me when walls collapsed on dodgy PFI schools in Scotland a couple of years ago, ive seen exactly how it could happen as everyone wants to maximise profits and cut corners , tradesmen come and go no one takes responsibility now thats in the UK, think what it would be like on a job been overseen by the mafia?

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 11:07 PM
Reply to  always write

Love your hasbara, old boy. I mean, buildings collapse in New York, every day, because of shoddy building. And the question in regard to the WTC collapses is the failure of the scores of steel beams supporting the building, NOT the concrete.

always write
always write
Apr 16, 2018 11:02 AM

nothing ludicrous about it, the mob controlled the building industry in New York, and thats an absolute fact
do you honestly think they stick to building regs?
this is a clue they’re called criminals, so they probably don’t, this doesn’t mean that the US government didn’t have some sort of involvement no it simply means you have a sub standard building, more likely to collapse than one properly built

Google Talpiot Program
Google Talpiot Program
Apr 16, 2018 11:36 AM
Reply to  always write

This is just a load of ridiculous conjecture.
Buildings (like WTC7) do not just collapse symmetrically and at freefall speeds even if the construction is bad.

BigB
BigB
Apr 16, 2018 11:55 AM
Reply to  always write

Actually, I do have construction experience, but never mind. Building 7 irrefutably fell, at least to start, in freefall. So do you suggest that the steel frame and concrete completely and catastrophically failed at the same time? So much so that the observable top floor met no resistance at all? That defies logic and the laws of physics. The “piledriver” theory has long been debunked by AE. The concrete from the Twin Towers was atomised to fine dust. That alone rules out fire collapse or weak concrete. As to the Mafia, I believe you are right …but that does not mean that sub-standard building alone caused a sudden and catastrophic failure of three buildings on the same day. And please don’t come back with weakened by burning kerosene hogwash, I haven’t got time today!

always write
always write
Apr 16, 2018 12:43 PM
Reply to  BigB

the concrete was turned to dust because it was substandard
poor aggregate and not enough cement, exactly the same thing was seen in the Italian town of L’aquila when buildings collapsed, plus its common knowledge the mafia mixed the stuff, or are you suggesting some sort of “exotic” eplosive was used to destroy all the concrete?

BigB
BigB
Apr 16, 2018 1:17 PM
Reply to  always write

If you know anything about building: you will know concrete is inherently weak – particularly in tension. The strength of the building was in the steel frame. To suggest both failed at once is beyond ridiculous. To suggest elements of the building were ejected laterally without adding energy to the system does not compute. It is not necessary to invent a plausible mechanism to refute fire collapse. It is necessary to propose new laws of physics to suggest the concrete fell off three buildings and brought the steel frame down simultaneously.

always write
always write
Apr 16, 2018 1:51 PM
Reply to  BigB

but you’re making the assumption that everything was done right, and not looking at why concrete would turn to dust, in your experience how does concrete turn to dust?
please explain it!
personally I’m suggesting one thing, which is this, theres a high chance none of it met with any building codes and was under the influence of crime families who made massive profits from the opportunity to exploit the building system in New York
you should check out the report by Ronald Goldstock about racketeering and the construction industry in New York all the evidence points to sub standard work and construction practices

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 7:41 PM
Reply to  always write

It’s simple. No amount of substandard construction (for which you produce no evidence) can explain a free fall symmetrical collapse. Your argument is a) evidence-free and b) irrelevant. Do some reading before clogging up this page any more.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 11:14 PM
Reply to  BigB

This hasbara troll is truly poor quality, B. They must be desperate at Hasbara Central. The proposition that ALL the concrete in the WTC towers turned to dust because second-rate is stupid, mendacious and ludicrous enough, but what then of all the steel beams that mysteriously melted as if they were butter cut through with a hot knife? Does the hasbara operative have an equally ludicrous explanation of that?

BigB
BigB
Apr 17, 2018 8:44 AM

Buildings don’t go rapidly from equilibrium to disequilibrium without a massive input of energy. In Italy, it was an earthquake, in NY, planes alone were not enough. All of the has been covered by AE911. Where’s the guy been for 15 years!

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 17, 2018 10:36 AM
Reply to  BigB

In Hasbara College-but he flunked out.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Apr 16, 2018 12:54 PM
Reply to  always write

There is nothing elaborate whatsoever in claiming WTC-7 came down by classic, controlled demolition, aka, an implosion. It’s irrelevant how substandard its material, how much fire was in it, or how much damage it suffered. The manner of its collapse tells all. Pre- and during- explosions, kink in middle at start, beautiful symmetry, near and partial free fall, complete dismemberment of steel frame and molten metal are all unique characteristics of controlled demolition while there is not even a lick of flame to be seen in videos of the collapse. WTC-7’s collapse by “fire” is the greatest case of the Emperor’s New Clothes the world has ever seen. I’ve done an Occam’s Razor exercise on the collapse of WTC-7 and offered $5,000 to those who support the official story to produce an equivalent exercise favouring the “fire” hypothesis. No one has been able to respond.
http://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/911.html

BigB
BigB
Apr 16, 2018 10:37 AM
Reply to  bevin

Bevin: if this comment is aimed in part at me, you are deliberately misrepresenting my assertions. No one on this thread, makes the accusation that Jeremy is an MI6 agent …except you. As you say, there is no evidence for this and personally, I do not believe he is. What I have empirically and objectively shown (previously with links) is that he can be co-opted by the Cabinet Office and JIC to conduit faulty intelligence fed to him. That does NOT make him part of the intelligence apparatus, only ancillary to it. To this end, it was interesting to note his actions this weekend: commenting on Syria. For this he sought, but did not get an intelligence briefing as a Privy Councillor. This was quite clear on the Marr show: he talked about “other parties” that may have perpetrated the Douma provocation …but he said “I don’t know, I don’t know” quite a few times. Corbyn “unbriefed” wants an OPCW investigation and a UN mandate to act: which is perfectly reasonable and legal. And probably clears up any false assertion that he is in the full-time employ of MI6?
Re: the Magnitsky ammendment. Not only did Corbyn “not oppose” this: he actively promoted it at every opportunity. As I have tried to make clear we already have “Unexplained Wealth Orders” which are analoguous to Magnitsky sanctions. We do not need another Magnitsky ammendment. This was the government position before 6th March. I do not claim that Jeremy is pushing this Act because he IS an MI6 agent: but I can quite clearly show he is pushing it FOR an MI6 agent. Thank if you do not conflate and impute meaning for me.
And no, I have not produced “evidence” that Browder is an agent for SIS: but if he is not, he might as well be? Or perhaps you think him an innocent human rights activist as he styles himself. What is irrefutable, empirical, and objective is that this one man is the source of much of the character assassination of Putin (from his “Enemy No1”) and Jeremy is pushing his agenda. Why: I do not know – naivety? Beyond that, I leave the speculation to you.
If Ian Austin is an agent, he would be a Mossad agent …but I make no such claim.
As for the Israeli Embassy: I have covered that elsewhere in depth. No, they will not call off their campaign. Yes, they already have a hold, and they are not far off gaining a veto control of the Labour disciplinary process: whereby anyone can be suspended on false accusations of anti-semitism: a position Jeremy has backed himself into by his strategy of appeasement.
All in all: I would say my assertions are grounded in empiricism, and I have not claimed anything I cannot back up. So facts are sacred: even if that means you do not like them?

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 10:47 AM
Reply to  bevin

I suggest immersing yourself in Christopher Bollyn’s excellent videos regarding Israeli planning for just such an operation, to be undertaken to provide the ‘New Pearl Harbor’ that the fanatic Zionist ‘neo-conservatives’ declared presciently would be needed to get the USA to do Israel’s dirty work in destroying the Moslem countries of the MENA. The evidence of Israeli and US sayanim involvement is huge, most circumstantial, but other parts, like the ‘five dancing Israelis’ seen filming the atrocity in real time, are rather more convincing.

BigB
BigB
Apr 16, 2018 11:24 AM

I read one of Bollyn’s books, can’t remember the title. I take on a lot of his points: but I personally frame such events as transnational, or better still: supra-national. To say it was this or that country alone is not how I view it: the perpetraitors were ultimately working for a “higher cause”! Caitlin Johnstone just did a piece about this: the ultimate beneficiaries form a globalised superclass that is totally amoral and has no allegiance to any particular cause or country. Zinoviev termed this the Westernised “supra-society”. Certainly not every individual: but at the corrupted core – all Western Intelligence agencies serve a cause that transcends the national interest. National security is a line they feed us: the UK as a whole benefits little from our involvement in Syria, and less still, from being embroiled in a Cold War with Russia on the grounds of national defence. It’s all a con!

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 11:20 PM
Reply to  BigB

The Zionist elite support other states and their elites only in so far as they serve Israel’s interests, or rather the interests of the Israeli and Diaspora elites. These interests are not those of much of Jewry, or, of course, of any goyim but the collaborative type like May, Micron, Cheney et al. The Zionist elite most certainly do possess global ambitions rooted in Talmudic doctrine.

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 11:32 PM

Stop this monomania about “joory”. It’s sub-intelligent racism and not welcome here.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 17, 2018 10:47 AM
Reply to  Admin

Please don’t misrepresent me. I have stated over and over again that the culprits are the Zionist elites in Israel and the Diaspora, NOT Jews as a whole. Many Jews oppose the nefarious activities of the Zionist elites, and many others are passive, just like all other communities. But in the matter of 9/11 proposing that the Zionists not be mentioned is quite bizarre. In my comments immediately above (the last seven or eight) there are eight ‘Zionists’ and one ‘Jewry’ and that was in the context of asserting that not all Jews support Zionist crimes or benefit from them.

Admin
Admin
Apr 17, 2018 11:23 AM

Didn’t suggest you shouldn’t “mention” anybody. Check back. Suggested you should stop obsessively littering your posts with queasy refs to “goyim”, “Jewry”, etc
Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Jews. We all know that. You know that. Now let it go.

Ross Hendry
Ross Hendry
Apr 16, 2018 12:30 PM

Bollyn is very reliable on 9/11, in my view.

mog
mog
Apr 16, 2018 11:51 AM
Reply to  bevin

@bevin
I am sad to see you write that.
I have not seen anyone here claiming Corbyn to be an MI6 agent, and it reads as inflationary misrepresentation to say that people have.
The Labour bureaucracy is simply overpowered/ outmaneuvered by a very well organised, well connected and well resourced psywar operation, – one that has at least some links to Israel and zionist sympathies.
Too many on the Corbyn Left cannot engage with this for fear of being branded racist.
Do you refute the accusation of Corbyn’s appeasement?
Evidence for Mossad involvement in 9/11 ?
There is a heap of evidence, arguably no conclusive evidence, but not far off:
‘First, Bergen, NJ residents saw five people on a white van filming the attacks and visibly celebrating. They had set up their cameras before the first plane hit. Police arrested them. All were Israelis (now referred to as the “dancing Israelis”). Bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives, although officers were unable to find anything. The FBI seized the van for further testing. All five were later released at the instigation of Israeli & American Jewish leaders, some in the US Government. Details are still classified. This incident quickly disappeared from the mainstream media, following a brief mention in the New York Times three days after the attacks, that was not followed up.
A second van was stopped on the approaches to the George Washington Bridge. As CBS’s Dan Rather said in his live report: “Two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives were discovered around the George Washington Bridge. That bridge links New York to New Jersey over the Hudson River. Whether the discovery of those explosives had anything to do with other events today is unclear, but the FBI, has two suspects in hand, said the truckload of explosives, enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge…“ Those suspects –also Israelis — and the incident then seem to have disappeared from the public record and mainstream media “examinations” <sic.> of 9/11, just like discussions of the first van, the secondary explosions at ground level within WTC-1 and WTC-2, and the precipitous collapse into its own footprint of WTC-7.’

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28438.htm
I think that Kevin Ryan has done some of the best work in trying to identify legitimate suspects for 9/11, and proposes a ‘private intelligence network’ which spans several countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia, UAE …).
I think there is a strong case made by Sabrosky and others that ‘The Big Wedding’
‘…wedded Neocon philosophy with 500 years of Atlanticism’.
I keep banging the drum that seeks to sound out the need for the Left to come to terms with this history. I contend that they will not ‘get anywhere’ in the 21st century unless or until they do.

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 11:39 PM
Reply to  mog

Does this network include the US/UK or any NATO countries?

mog
mog
Apr 23, 2018 10:05 PM
Reply to  Admin

@Admin
Does this network include the US/UK or any NATO countries?
Yes.

Catte
Catte
Apr 15, 2018 11:49 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

We’ve successfully proved the official story is a lie, but we haven’t uncovered what actually happened beyond there being foreknowledge and pre-planning of some kind. Who did the planning, how many people knew how much how long before it happened, we do NOT know.
Do we?
Let’s be as rigorous about the sceptical argument as we are about the official story.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Apr 16, 2018 10:11 AM
Reply to  Catte

Catte, we do know for absolute certain that WTC-7 came down by controlled demolition, not by fire – it’s a matter of science – and that fact means inside job, however much it was also an outside job. It’s fine to be rigorous but if the facts are staring you right in the face that’s rigour enough. I simply do not understand reluctance to call things out when they’re in your face. It’s not as if a court hearing is necessarily going to give you a better answer, is it, but hopefully there’s going to be one soon where the truth will be revealed, at least as much as necessary.
10 April – Lawyers and Victims’ Families File Petition for Federal Grand Jury Investigation
According to the 52-page petition, which is accompanied by 57 exhibits, federal statute requires the U.S. Department of Justice to relay citizen reports of federal crimes to a special grand jury. The unprosecuted crime alleged to have taken place on 9/11 is THE BOMBING OF A PLACE OF PUBLIC USE OR A GOVERNMENT FACILITY — as prohibited under the federal bombing statute or 18 U.S.C. § 2332f — as well as a conspiracy to commit, or the aiding and abetting of, said offense.
https://www.ae911truth.org/news/447-lawyers-and-victims-families-file-petition-for-federal-grand-jury-investigation

Ross Hendry
Ross Hendry
Apr 16, 2018 12:37 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I think Catte was saying we don’t know the people who were involved, etc. but she accepts that the official story is a lie.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Apr 16, 2018 10:15 PM
Reply to  Ross Hendry

We don’t know who exactly but we know for absolute certain that rogue elements within government were involved. We definitely know it was an inside job, whatever outside involvement there was.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 10:41 AM
Reply to  Catte

How do you explain the ‘five dancing Israelis’ filming the attack as it happened, from Liberty Park in New Jersey?

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 11:57 AM

How well-sourced is that? Video? Names? Documentation?

Google Talpiot Program
Google Talpiot Program
Apr 16, 2018 12:04 PM
Reply to  Admin

3 of the 5 appeared on an Israeli TV show afterwards where they said they were there to “document the event”.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 12:17 PM

Is this sinister? Several people filmed the event. No doubt these men could have had connections to Israeli intelligence, but that’s not automatic proof they were in on the plot. Big leap to just assume that. In fact you could argue the last thing any of the key insiders would be doing is advertising their connection by cheering and filming the event from on top of a white van.
Not excluding it, just saying it’s not an inevitable conclusion they were involved at all, and certainly no indication there were at the center of anything.

Google Talpiot Program
Google Talpiot Program
Apr 16, 2018 12:22 PM
Reply to  Admin

“Not excluding it, jut saying it’s not an inevitable conclusion they were involved at all, and certainly no indication there were at the center of anything.”
No one is saying they are at the centre of anything. That they were in a position to film, were reportedly celebrating, their story changed multiple times in interviews with law and enforcement and that they were possibly Israeli intelligence all adds up to making it an interesting detail.
Especially when all the other evidence of 9/11 is investigated and puts the dancing Israelis in context.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 11:03 PM
Reply to  Admin

LUDICROUS! They knew of the attack, before it happened. Others filming the atrocity were NOT wildly celebrating the deaths of thousands. They were attempting to pose as ‘Arabs’ to defame them. One told one of the arresting police that ‘Your enemy are the Palestinians’. The police found traces of explosives in their van. One or more failed lie-detector tests before they were simply released and allowed to go home to Israel, where they appeared on TV, one admitting to being MOSSAD.

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 11:22 PM

Steady on. The source quoted above doesn’t say anything about wild celebration, it just says the five men were looking happy and smiling. That’s a bit weird of itself but don’t exaggerate it into something else. Thats just replacing memes with other memes. Maybe they were involved, but there are many other possibilities, including them simply watching the event with no direct connection at all.
What significance do you see in the traces of explosives? Are you suggesting these guys are the ones who wired the WTCs for demolition, and that they had brought the RDX/thermite there in that van, which they didn’t ditch but continued to drive around in?
Five guys with no known specialist knowledge, wiring three massive towers for demolition from one small van?
You don’t think it was likely a bigger more professional outfit that would do that? One – say – with permits to enter and renovate the towers/enter the lift shafts?

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 17, 2018 10:30 AM
Reply to  Admin

Your diversionary tactics are interesting. They were described as ‘dancing, jumping and giving each other ‘high-fives’. Obviously they were overcome with grief. The presence of explosive traces plainly has nothing to do so with the controlled demolition. It just seems odd, and suspicious. No-one at any time suggested that these five did the placing of the controlled demolition charges. Of course it was others, probably Israeli Death Force sappers. And they were NOT ‘just watching’-they were filming it, and from the first aircraft strike. Pretty prescient of them.

rogermorris
rogermorris
Apr 15, 2018 11:45 PM

absolutely agreed. the more nuanced reality is where Karl ROVE delivered us..(“We are empire now…we create new realities..”) which is why the adults in Moscow have so far deflected these egregious false flags generated by the MI6 Britprop WhiteHelmets®.con atrocity troupe.
Because they KNOW whats going on.
Thierry Meysson wrote one of the very first books on false flag 911, the event beginning WW3 (911. The big LIE) He is a voice highly regarded. The ugly intentions of the anglozionist hegamon, loudly expressed as they slapped the Patriot Act into homeland ‘Law’ – to smash the middle East by all and any means (Strategy of Tension [NATO:GLADIO] YINON and ‘Full Spectrum Dominance’ methods/R2P, P2OG, IIO) ushered in on the LIE of 911 casus belli; was not lost on Russian and Chinese intelligence ; nor on anyone listening.

Kathy
Kathy
Apr 15, 2018 10:46 PM

In my more optimistic moments I like to believe that Trump and or some players within the deep state are very subtly drawing out and exposing the real power base of the wicked ones within. If the swamp is to be drained it will be a chess game of herculean performance and great focus. Their are good people within the power base structure as well as some very bad ones and it would only take enough of the good to be able to seize control and shift the balance. It has seemed as if the UK have been far to over occupied with dissing Trump. It is always interesting when the media go into non stop vitriol over some one like they have with Trump and It always makes me suspicious. The UK have sure gone to an awful lot of trouble to try to smear Trump. He is after all a real danger for them if he is genuine. If he really does mean what he has said they really must be worried. After all if Hillery had won I think we all realize that things would not be playing out quite so badly for the wicked ones with in the deep state.They would probably have gone into Syria last year and already be well on the way to a full on confrontation with Russia by now.

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 2:14 AM
Reply to  Kathy

For an intriguing, or perhaps I should say “juicy” view of Trump’s chess game with the Deep State, Jerome Corsi is The Man. He has written a book — Killing the Deep State — on this very subject.
Here’s his live stream chat from April 14.

And here’s an interview in which he talks about his book.
https://soundcloud.com/brothercraig/new-york-times-best-selling-author-dr-jerome-corsi-new-book-killing-the-deep-state

Google Talpiot Program
Google Talpiot Program
Apr 16, 2018 10:51 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Jerome Corsi lol
an obvious pro-zionist fraud

Schlüter
Schlüter
Apr 15, 2018 10:08 PM

Very good post!
After all it always comes down to the US/UK Neocon Power Elite´s nightmare (including the efforts to get away from Oil Dollar binding):
„Geo-Politics: The Core of Crisis and Chaos and the Nightmares of the US Power Elite“ https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/geo-politics-the-core-of-crisis-and-chaos-the-nightmares-of-the-us-power-elite/
Best regards

BigB
BigB
Apr 15, 2018 9:16 PM

On the 6th March Boris Johnson announced to the House that Russia had poisoned the Skripals – even though it was too early to speculate: Russia definitely dunnit. Immediately in response, although it was too early to speculate, Emily Thornberry likened the attack to Litvinenko and the other 14 suspicious deaths (detailed in the BuzzFeed “From Russia with Blood” investigation). She also put forward a proposal to add a Magnitsky sanctions amendment to the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill “currently upstairs” in the Lords. Shortly after, Yvette Cooper, asked for a re-investigation into the BuzzFeed dossier. Subsequently, both of these were granted. In another part of the House, Bill Browder was giving evidence culture select committee inquiry into fake news. He would later emerge, L Paul Bremer-like to plant the media meme that the first line of inquiry should be assassination.
In the light of the current article, if anyone is looking for a UK intelligence coup – tell me that was a coincidence?
Follow Browders activities back to Hermitage Capital Management: Browder is a billionaire Cold War instigator …if not THE new Cold War instigator. The opening salvo of the new Cold War was his Magnitsky Act of 2012 (followed by the Global Magnitsky Act of 2016). The BuzzFeed investigation is largely based on his accusations. Putin wants him dead, or so he says. Putin’s offshore $200 billion is a Browder accusation: and the Panama Papers are a Soros/Browder attempt (using OCCRP) to trace money stolen from Hermitage and funneled through to Sergei Roldugin, a cellist and old friend of Putin. Putin is helping Trump in order to protect these secret billions: his number one priority is to get rid of the Magnitsky Act. These and many others are the barely fleshed out Cold War lies that can be tracked back to one man: William Browder – MI6 Agent Solomon.
Russiagate: this was an MI6 instigated plot to target Trump and Putin by linking them and denigrating both. The principle agent for this was Christopher Steele. He wrote the Trump Kompromat dossier and back channeled it into the US via John McCain: using former ambassador Andrew Wood in a meeting set up in Canada. According to Julian Assange: UKGov approved the dossier. This was the pillar of the Mueller investigation. The other pillar of Russiagate was the Trump Tower meeting. The salient point is that both these pillars were set up by Brits with security connections. As Elizabeth Vos titled he piece for Disobedient Media: all Russiagate roads lead to London.
So what is the chance of Sergei Skripal being a random outsider to this: given that Pablo Miller was his handler? And was that Pablo Miller with the Skripals in Zizzi the day before the BZ poisoning?
There is too much to put in a comment: but this is an MI6 plot through and through. The chance that the man poisoned in Salisbury was connected to the cast that brought us Russiagate is vanishingly less than zero. The elite Russophobia can be traced principally to two men: Browder and Steele; both British nationals and both actively working for MI6. Douma seems likely to be a Deus ex machina contrived plot ending to divert from a fake assassination that had lingered in the spotlight for far too long. It was a very British provocation.
The sticking point to my analysis is that it was the Labour party and Jeremy Corbyn that pushed the MI6 agenda. That is, if people agree that this was the MI6 agenda: as it seems clear to me. They pushed for the BuzzFeed re-investigation and the Magnitsky sanctions amendment. Jeremy Corbyn even invoked Navalny (MI6 Agent Freedom) for advice: “Alexei Navalny, a Russian opposition party leader who was barred from standing for the Russian presidency and has faced down intimidation of him, his family and his supporters at the hands of the Russian state, has made clear that the most important thing the UK could do to curb the power and punish the actions of Vladimir Putin is to hit his billionaire allies in their pockets. I hope the Prime Minister will listen to that advice.” {Hansard: 26/03/2018}.
So I am convinced this is an ongoing MI6 operation, that Capitaine Barril has dubbed Operation Beluga – the plot to discredit Putin. Coming to a park bench near you, soon!

Vaska
Vaska
Apr 16, 2018 1:40 AM
Reply to  BigB

Very disappointing to learn of that statement by Corbyn. Very.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:02 AM
Reply to  BigB

Kier Starmer outed himself as the Counsel for the crown in the Litvinenko Case. Thornberry and her official Title alluded to by Bojo in the House of Commons and censured for it by The Speaker, Tom Watson always hovering in the background, wheeled out and performing on the Marr Show, same episode as David Davis with the Sick bucket.
The Is a COG element within the Shadow Cabinet and then the Neo-Liberal Blairite heir apparent like Ummana on the outside. Who would truly expect the Labour Party even under Corbyn not to be shot through with infiltrators?
John Smiths early demise gave us Blair, Corbyn ( god forbid that he goes the way of Olof Palme) would giver us Who. Watson, Starmer, Ummana or David Milliband The Establishment Macron/Trudeau/Rubio clone?
Then there’s Dianne Abbot who Is Portillo’s buddy and ex Beau of Jezzer ( The Swordsman) Think The History Man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcjqNaExUwo
ANd This Documentary on Olof Palme is a trailer for the current Plot.

I think that this will be memory holed when Parliament meets will be interesting how much May get questioned Trump obviously is compromised Is Jeremy Corbyn? if Corbyn is not compromised then I think we need to be looking out for another Olof Palme incident.
The clamour to get rid of Corbyn before the Chilcott Report was huge, that was the Owen Smith leadership challenge, now there’s this new centre party idea as Corbyn cannot be removed they have been banging on about Anti Semitism but that is I think mainly for electoral local elections and a general election. I do think Corbyn is in Great Danger.
Continuity of Government, Dramatic Continuity
One Way out of the Bottle
This
http://www.super-smart-democracies.co.uk/the-supercompetent-alternative-to-neoliberalism/the-powell-memorandum-the-success-of-neoliberalism-and-the-change-equation/
Not This.

Edwige
Edwige
Apr 16, 2018 9:02 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

“John Smiths early demise gave us Blair”.
The John Smith who was a three times Bilderberg attendee and on their Steering Committee….

bill
bill
Apr 16, 2018 2:49 AM
Reply to  BigB

certainly Barril is highly convincing re Op Beluga and the use of mysterious poisons and occurence of time-delayed deaths and a few recoveries strongly points to a continuing operation aimed against Putin.

WJ
WJ
Apr 15, 2018 8:34 PM

I think readers interested in Meyssan’s analysis should read two other supplementary pieces, that fit together to give an overall possible shape of a UK/US conspiracy linking Salisbury to Ghouta:
Elijah Magnier’s latest here:https://ejmagnier.com/2018/04/15/the-us-secret-plan-on-damascus-foiled-the-russian-role-before-and-after-the-us-uk-france-attack-revealed/
Sputnik or Global research write up of Fars news agency account of captured U.K. operatives in Ghouta here: https://sputniknews.com/military/201804121063460158-british-forces-syria-ghouta/

ing08
ing08
Apr 15, 2018 8:00 PM

next Wed. some questions to the PM. What is Porton Downs product and how much of it is being sold to other countries. Are US interests in PD. selling their research products to other countries? Have, during the last 7 years any of PD’s products been sold to Syria, Saudi paid for mercenaries and ior other rebel groups in Syria? Has PD, directly or indirectly, ever been in business or trading with Sergei Skripal? Should the two non signatory countries to OPCW treaties, the US and Israel, be sanctioned and shut out of OPCW business, its certifications and ‘unbiased’ ehem, inspections until both countries have signed up. Should these countries be removed from UNSC for the same reasons? until they have signed the treaties and agree to an inspection regime?

Kathy
Kathy
Apr 15, 2018 9:48 PM
Reply to  ing08

These are definitely the kinds of questions that would be good to hear coming from Corbyn. It would probably send the house into a hissyfit and the media into anti Corbyn melt down but someone aught to be asking them.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 12:14 AM
Reply to  Kathy

Corbyn, a sort of Anglo Sanders Trojan Horse, would never ask such cogent questions in a fit. I thought he was hemmed in by the Blairites, but I suspect that he has been yet another sham like Obama, Sanders, Trump etc, all along. The system is water-tight and irreformable. The rich owners of society make ALL the decisions and their political stooges put them into effect, and the drones must be brainwashed to think they live in a ‘democracy’-the saddest, sickest, joke of all.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Apr 16, 2018 12:29 AM

It’s so disappointing, isn’t it? Wouldn’t it be great if, for once, when someone got to the top they lived up to what they seemed to promise.

vexarb
vexarb
Apr 16, 2018 6:28 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

@flaxgirl. Putin has got to the top — and his foes are the first to admit that he means what he says. In my day Attlee and MacMillan were like that. Some other countries might add a few such examples, but they are rare. Why else did Diogenes carry his lamp?
“Where may the weary eye decline / When gazing on the great?
There was a time l When Earth was Gaul’s, Gaul thine /
Thou mightst have ….” — Byron, Ode to Napoleon.

BigB
BigB
Apr 16, 2018 3:12 PM
Reply to  vexarb

My analysis leads me to believe that the whole Russophobia farrago is a concocted anti-Putin campaign: instigated because he would NOT be controlled. He was put in power by the Russian oligarchy to be another Yeltsin. Until he “turned” and locked up Khordokovsky …even just after, Browder et al were singing his praise. Putin is not a “yes” man or a puppet: which is why we have to suffer this interminable anti-Russian bullshit that serves virtually no one. This is a simulated ideological war that will not conclude unless the financial oligarchy get their hands on Russia’s resources: preferably for free!

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 10:58 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

They are weeded out long before that. If one sneaked through, they’d be set up, or killed as a last resort. See Palme, Chavez, Chris Hani, scores of Palestinian leaders (not all paragons of course)JFK after he stopped obeying orders etc. Corbyn looks like a melange of Trojan Horse and coward.

Google Talpiot Program
Google Talpiot Program
Apr 16, 2018 10:55 AM

Corbyn can’t go full guns blazing and openly say the truth on all matters – just not politically feasible.
His voting record certainly suggests he is more “for real” than Sanders ever was. Definitely the best choice at present.

John Marks
John Marks
Apr 15, 2018 10:54 PM
Reply to  ing08

Yep, the Syrian Army has found many chemical weapons stashes in the recently liberated suburbs of east Damascus (Saqba being one).
And, embarrassingly, supplies have come from Michigan, the Ruhr and . . . Porton Down! Pictures of the canisters have been posted, serial numbers and all.

bevin
bevin
Apr 15, 2018 7:45 PM

” …the deep heart of the Russophobic cabal is too dogma-driven and infested with idiots to understand the real world results of their plans. ”
In normal circumstances these people would be kept under control. But these are extraordinary times in the UK. The convergence of Brexit issues with the weakness of the Tory government in the face of Corbyn’s rather old fashioned socialist programme means that the government is desperate for an easy deliverance.
And the extreme elements within The Establishment are thus in a position to get away with ‘cunning plans’ of the sort that Baldric, the model of bungling courtiers, famously, concocted.
The situation in the US is not very different; there too the government hangs by a thread and the grown ups are deeply divided between the pros, centred on the Pentagon and the neo-con maniacs centred in the media business and the Intelligence oligarchs who keep it going.
As to France, the situation there is completely attributable to the idiocy of the ‘left’ indulging in its irrational fear of the phantom of Action Francaise and Petain while merrily letting the real fascism of Macron in the front door. Now Macron is reprising the role of mini-Napoleon while the National Assembly is full of his unlettered cronies.
Unlike the World Trade Centre buildings this empire is about to collapse without the explosives needed to ensure that it falls into its own footprint- very messy, very dirty and very dangerous.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 1:44 AM
Reply to  bevin

Unlike the World Trade Centre buildings this empire is about to collapse without the explosives needed to ensure that it falls into its own footprint — very messy, very dirty and very dangerous.
Without explosives, none of the WTC buildings would have collapsed at all, much less into their own basements.
Perhaps a better metaphor would be to say that in this case, the Empire’s administrators have inadvertently undermined its foundations, due to to their own arrogance, stupidity, incompetence, and greed, thus ensuring that it will collapse by toppling over sideways, crushing whatever and whoever is unlikely enough to be within the zone of destruction.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 1:54 AM
Reply to  bevin

As to France, the situation there is completely attributable to the idiocy of the ‘left’ indulging in its irrational fear of the phantom of Action Francaise and Petain while merrily letting the real fascism of Macron in the front door. Now Macron is reprising the role of mini-Napoleon
History always repeats itself: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, the third time as idiocy of the “left”…
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1852/18th-brumaire/ch01.htm

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 2:22 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Now Macron is reprising the role of mini-Napoleon.
Wouldn’t that make him Napoleon the Turd?

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 2:25 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Only in Ireland… 😉

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 3:00 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Wouldn’t that make him Napoleon the Turd?
Unfortunately, no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III

Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language. Thus Luther put on the mask of the Apostle Paul, the Revolution of 1789-1814 draped itself alternately in the guise of the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire, and the Revolution of 1848 knew nothing better to do than to parody, now 1789, now the revolutionary tradition of 1793-95. In like manner, the beginner who has learned a new language always translates it back into his mother tongue, but he assimilates the spirit of the new language and expresses himself freely in it only when he moves in it without recalling the old and when he forgets his native tongue.
When we think about this conjuring up of the dead of world history, a salient difference reveals itself. Camille Desmoulins, Danton, Robespierre, St. Just, Napoleon, the heroes as well as the parties and the masses of the old French Revolution, performed the task of their time – that of unchaining and establishing modern bourgeois society – in Roman costumes and with Roman phrases. The first one destroyed the feudal foundation and cut off the feudal heads that had grown on it. The other created inside France the only conditions under which free competition could be developed, parceled-out land properly used, and the unfettered productive power of the nation employed; and beyond the French borders it swept away feudal institutions everywhere, to provide, as far as necessary, bourgeois society in France with an appropriate up-to-date environment on the European continent. Once the new social formation was established, the antediluvian colossi disappeared and with them also the resurrected Romanism – the Brutuses, the Gracchi, the publicolas, the tribunes, the senators, and Caesar himself. Bourgeois society in its sober reality bred its own true interpreters and spokesmen in the Says, Cousins, Royer-Collards, Benjamin Constants, and Guizots; its real military leaders sat behind the office desk and the hog-headed Louis XVIII was its political chief. Entirely absorbed in the production of wealth and in peaceful competitive struggle, it no longer remembered that the ghosts of the Roman period had watched over its cradle.
But unheroic though bourgeois society is, it nevertheless needed heroism, sacrifice, terror, civil war, and national wars to bring it into being. And in the austere classical traditions of the Roman Republic the bourgeois gladiators found the ideals and the art forms, the self-deceptions, that they needed to conceal from themselves the bourgeois-limited content of their struggles and to keep their passion on the high plane of great historic tragedy. Similarly, at another stage of development a century earlier, Cromwell and the English people had borrowed from the Old Testament the speech, emotions, and illusions for their bourgeois revolution. When the real goal had been achieved and the bourgeois transformation of English society had been accomplished, Locke supplanted Habakkuk.
Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte

AntonyI
AntonyI
Apr 16, 2018 6:45 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Please don’t insult the legacy of Napoleon. Apart from fighting too much he left a positive legacy of promoting better laws, science, civic administration etc. he came out of a Revolution against the Ancient Regime of monarchy, aristocracy and clergy.
Micron is a planted Deep State maverick and thus a status quo keeper.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 15, 2018 7:31 PM

http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2018/04/zionism-calvanism-and-jewish-national.html
Theresa May the new Lord Protector of The Commonwealth
Aha Moment The Calvanist Strain in Neo-Liberal Misanthropy penny drops.
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2017/04/timonism-calvanist-strain-in-neo.html

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 15, 2018 8:26 PM
Reply to  rogerglewis

What on earth is “Calvanism” and “Calvanist”? If the author meant Calvinism and Calvinist, he/she cannot be taken seriously if he/she cannot spell it right.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 1:59 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

This policy ought to be much more widely applied than it usually is. Why should people who have not achieved even basic literacy be accorded any attention or respect at all, once they’re older than twelve?

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:10 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

Oh a Grammar/Spelling Nazi, get a life.
If you have a point to make make it. Your trivial brain fart I am afraid is just that a silly little outburst from someone who might benefit from engaging with the clear meaning of what is presented in the Links.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 2:18 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

Troll alert!

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:25 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

Not Good enough, make an argument a simple spelling error does not count as any sort of rebuttal I’m afraid.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 2:27 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

You completely missed my point, it flew way over your head! LOL!

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 3:21 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

Why should people who write “LOL!” be accorded any attention or respect at all, once they’re older than twelve?

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 3:59 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Why should people who can’t keep up with common expressions used by adults on the internet be accorded any attention or respect at all?

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 5:16 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

ROFLMAO!
It beat’s me why people feel they need to keep up with internet acronyms any more than with the Kardashians.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 3:06 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

make an argument a simple spelling error does not count as any sort of rebuttal I’m afraid
I think you’ve made the point yourself, as not only correct spelling, but also proper grammar and punctuation seem to be beyond you.

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 3:47 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Why should people who use “not only… but also” be accorded any attention or respect at all (unless they happen to be Peter Cook and Dudley Moore) when on most occasions a shorter and crisper sounding “as well as” or a string of “and”s would convey the same idea more concisely and with less verbosity, pomposity and rhetorical baggage?

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:09 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

comment image

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 4:46 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

I’m afraid you’ve lost me, as I fail to see how your suggested alternatives would convey the same idea at all, much less “more concisely and with less verbosity, pomposity and rhetorical baggage”.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 2:19 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

Oh a Grammar/Spelling Nazi
As opposed to a grammar/spelling idiot, of course.
It’s fairly rare that grammar/spelling idiots manage to contain their idiocy to that single endeavour.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:28 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Slightly better, Still not an argument though.
The Calvinist point regarding evangelical and Puritan Zionism and also the foundations of Western Capitalism/Imperialism/Mercantilism is a very real one.
I am intrigued as to why you seem to be unwilling to deal with the argument.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 3:35 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

I am intrigued as to why you seem to be unwilling to deal with the argument.
I prefer to spend my time reading the arguments of people who have taken the trouble to learn to write properly, as experience suggests that the quality of the argument is, more often than not, correlated with the quality of the writing.
Why should I assume that somebody who not only doesn’t know how to spell “Calvin”, but more importantly, won’t spend ten seconds to look it up, has anything interesting to say on the subject?
Such inferences may sometimes be wrong, although less often than they are right. I’m sure I’m not the only person who is occasionally dissuaded from reading things that might have been interesting and useful, by the illiterate style of writing in which they are expressed. Sadly, I have no intention of changing this policy, because in most cases it prevents me from wasting my time on essays whose factual and logical quality closely match their spelling, punctuation, and grammar.
People who expect to be taken seriously, should take care to write as if they did. If they for some reason believe that this is beneath them, that’s their problem, not mine. They have no claim on my time, attention, or energy. If what they think they have to say wasn’t worth their effort to write properly, why is it supposed to be worth my effort to read it?

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 3:57 AM
Reply to  milosevic

Fair enough, it’s your choice. You read rather a lot into an absence of punctuation and spelling errors. That, says rather more about you than those who incur your Ire.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 4:40 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

You read rather a lot into an absence of punctuation and spelling errors.
I don’t see why I should have to repeat myself, so I’ll just quote: “experience suggests that the quality of the argument is, more often than not, correlated with the quality of the writing.”
“I have no intention of changing this policy, because in most cases it prevents me from wasting my time on essays whose factual and logical quality closely match their spelling, punctuation, and grammar.”
That, says rather more about you than those who incur your ire.
Yes, it says “They have no claim on my time, attention, or energy.”
Apparently you don’t read very well, either, because nowhere did I say that bad writers incurred my ire. They incur my disinterest and inattention, which are surely mine to bestow as I see fit, based, as I said, on past experience. Unless you think this should be something other than a rhetorical question:
“If what they think they have to say wasn’t worth their effort to write properly, why is it supposed to be worth my effort to read it?”

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 4:25 AM
Reply to  milosevic

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.
The failure to follow an established spelling convention in the matter of a name—especially the name of a foreigner that is spelt in several different ways in any case (John Calvin, Jean Calvin, Jehan Cauvin)—hardly amounts to illiteracy. It may be indicative of a person whose education has not been sufficiently completed or of an uncorrected keyboard typo, but you do the person an injustice by claiming in effect that they are unable to read or write.
If you want to be strict about precise spelling, you should for the sake of consistency be equally strict about precise word definitions. In view of the strict definition of illiteracy as the inability to read and/or write, the phrase you used—”an illiterate style of writing”—is clearly and unequivocally oxymoronic. I wouldn’t normally bother to point this out but as you seem such a stickler for holding other people to rules, I am sure you’ll appreciate being corrected on this matter.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 5:08 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

or of an uncorrected keyboard typo
It ceases to be plausibly explained as a typing error when it occurs two or more times incorrectly, but never correctly.
John Calvin, Jean Calvin, Jehan Cauvin
A perceptive person might notice that all three of those alternatives use the spelling “vin”, whereas none of them use “van”.
In view of the strict definition of illiteracy as the inability to read and/or write, the phrase you used — “an illiterate style of writing” — is clearly and unequivocally oxymoronic.
As a functionally literate person might understand from the prevalence of the term “functionally illiterate”, illiteracy is a matter of degree, rather than absolute.
If I had said “illiterate writing”, rather than “illiterate style of writing”, you might have a point. But I didn’t, and you don’t.

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 5:38 AM
Reply to  milosevic

As a functionally literate person might understand from the prevalence of the term “functionally illiterate”, illiteracy is a matter of degree, rather than absolute.
See what you did there? You introduced a new concept of “functionally illiteracy” into the argument and attempted to imply an equivalency between it and the concept of “illiteracy”. A functionally illiterate person might let you get away with that because of their understanding of the difference between the two concepts, while a genuine actual authentic bone fide illiterate person would be thinking “what do all those lines of printed symbols mean?
Also, If what you stated about literacy being a matter of degree rather than an absolute skill like the ability to take a pee was true, then all of us would be functionally illiterate to some degree since none of us understands everything that has ever been written and none of us produces perfectly syntactically correct writing all the time, which in turn would make it incorrect to use “functional illiteracy” in the way you have done as a synonym for “not being able to read or write very well.”

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 2:56 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

What on earth is “Calvanism” and “Calvanist”? If the author meant Calvinism and Calvinist, he/she cannot be taken seriously if he/she cannot spell it right.
Oh dear! It’s difficult to know where to begin. Here we have two “if” clauses in one sentence, which at the very least invites misunderstanding, plus the misuse of “right” where the correct adverb is “correctly”, and the use of the singular “is” before “Calvanism” and “Calvanist” where the correct form of the verb is “are”.
It’s fifty years since I was last wrapped on the knuckles by nuns for making elementary syntactical errors and/or misjudgments of the kind demonstrated above, but I still wince when I see them in print, particularly when they have been made by somebody in the process of pompously character assassinating a stranger on the basis of a spelling mistake.
Where IS Lynne Truss when you need her?

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 3:56 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

I apologize for English being only my fourth language.

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 4:36 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

No need at all to apologize. In fact, I’m almost envious as it means you never had to endure English lessons given by nuns.comment image

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:44 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

When I was eleven, my mother wanted me to go to a nun-run boarding school for girls. I looked her straight in the eyes and told her that if she sent me there, after two weeks I would run away and she would never see me again. That was that!
Instead, I chose a progressive school – Frensham Heights. It wasn’t too bad, but had I known about Summerhill, that’s the school I would have chosen.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 4:10 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Here we have two “if” clauses in one sentence, which at the very least invites misunderstanding
Perhaps I’m less imaginative than you are, but I can’t see how the sentence is question could be understood differently than its author intended.
compare: “If you’re driving at night, you’re likely to crash if your headlights are not working.” I defy you to misunderstand that.
the misuse of “right” where the correct adverb is “correctly”
I suggest to you that the use of “right” as an adverb is perfectly colloquial, and has been so for a long time, even if not approved by whatever grammar handbook you regard as authoritative.
the use of the singular “is” where the correct form of the verb is “are”
If you were to ponder the relative frequency of the colloquial expressions “What on earth is that?” and “What on earth are they?”, that might suggest a reason for choosing one over the other, even in circumstances where technical considerations of grammar might suggest the alternate choice.
So there.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 4:19 AM
Reply to  milosevic

https://twitter.com/RogerGLewis/status/985719081511870470
“No Passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else’s draft” H G Wells

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:23 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

What is your point (if any)?

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 4:31 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

It’s an English thing. Very few non-natives would understand it even if great pains were taken to explain it to them.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:33 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Risible.

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 4:38 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

précisément.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:40 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

By the way, I got 100% in both Cambridge English and French O level.
A couple of years later, I dropped out because my teachers couldn’t cope, didn’t have the adequate training, with children with a score higher than 132 on the Stanford–Binet test. I was bored to tears, so I entered a far more interesting school – the school of life in which I devoured books and experiences.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 5:30 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

In this case, nobody proposed to alter anybody else’s draft. They proposed that they might draw inferences about the quality of the argument from the quality of the writing, and direct their attention and interest elsewhere.
This insistence on determining for themselves what opinions to regard or disregard, on criteria based on past experience, hardly qualifies them as “Nazis”, although people who propose that they have no right to do so, might fairly be described as such.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 7:47 AM
Reply to  milosevic

The Ultimate Stratagem (XXXVIII)
A last trick is to become personal, insulting, rude, as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand, and that you are going to come off worst. It consists in passing from the subject of dispute, as from a lost game, to the disputant himself, and in some way attacking his person. It may be called the argumentum ad personam, to distinguish it from the argumentum ad hominem, which passes from the objective discussion of the subject pure and simple to the statements or admissions which your opponent has made in regard to it. But in becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack to his person, by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. It is an appeal from the virtues of the intellect to the virtues of the body, or to mere animalism. This is a very popular trick, because every one is able to carry it into effect; and so it is of frequent application. Now the question is, What counter-trick avails for the other party? for if he has recourse to the same rule, there will be blows, or a duel, or an action for slander.
It would be a great mistake to suppose that it is sufficient not to become personal yourself. For by showing a man quite quietly that he is wrong, and that what he says and thinks is incorrect – a process which occurs in every dialectical victory – you embitter him more than if you used some rude or insulting expression. Why is this? Because, as Hobbes observes,17 all mental pleasure consists in being able to compare oneself with others to one’s own advantage. Nothing is of greater moment to a man than the gratification of his vanity, and no wound is more painful than that which is inflicted on it. Hence such phrases as “Death before dishonour,” and so on. The gratification of vanity arises mainly by comparison of oneself with others, in every respect, but chiefly in respect of one’s intellectual powers; and so the most effective and the strongest gratification of it is to be found in controversy. Hence the embitterment of defeat, apart from any question of injustice; and hence recourse to that last weapon, that last trick, which you cannot evade by mere politeness. A cool demeanour may, however, help you here, if, as soon as your opponent becomes personal, you quietly reply, “That has no bearing on the point in dispute,” and immediately bring the conversation back to it, and continue to show him that he is wrong, without taking any notice of his insults. Say, as Themistocles said to Eurybiades – Strike, but hear me. But such demeanour is not given to every one.
As a sharpening of wits, controversy is often, indeed, of mutual advantage, in order to correct one’s thoughts and awaken new views. But in learning and in mental power both disputants must be tolerably equal: If one of them lacks learning, he will fail to understand the other, as he is not on the same level with his antagonist. If he lacks mental power, he will be embittered, and led into dishonest tricks, and end by being rude.
The only safe rule, therefore, is that which Aristotle mentions in the last chapter of his Topica: not to dispute with the first person you meet, but only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to cherish truth, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong, should truth lie with him. From this it follows that scarcely one man in a hundred is worth your disputing with him. You may let the remainder say what they please, for every one is at liberty to be a fool – desipere est jus gentium. Remember what Voltaire says: La paix vaut encore mieux que la verite. Remember also an Arabian proverb which tells us that on the tree of silence there hangs its fruit, which is peace.
It seems you started at stategem 38.
http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/erist38.htm
La paix vaut encore mieux que la verite.
Thank You, Tim Groves, for your informative and helpful pedagogy.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 17, 2018 3:01 PM
Reply to  rogerglewis

A last trick is to become personal, insulting, rude, as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand, and that you are going to come off worst. It consists in passing from the subject of dispute, as from a lost game, to the disputant himself, and in some way attacking his person.
That’s pretty rich, coming from the person who denounced others as “Grammar/Spelling Nazis”.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 17, 2018 4:50 PM
Reply to  milosevic
vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:13 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

correctly
kəˈrɛk(t)li
adverb
in a way that is true, factual or appropriate; accurately.
“she correctly answered eight questions”
synonyms: accurately, right, rightly, faithfully, unerringly, precisely, exactly, faultlessly, flawlessly, perfectly, without error, without flaws; informalspot on, bang on; informalon the money; datedaright
edited by Admin to correct coding

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:14 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

Ooops, messed up my html tags. It should have read right, of course. Way past my bedtime here in the City of Calvin where I live!

JJA
JJA
Apr 16, 2018 10:08 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

Not sure how many languages you speak, but in listing your alleged IQ and academic achievements, the advice a Swede would give you is ‘skryt lagom’.

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 12:54 PM
Reply to  JJA

@ EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS POINTLESS DEBATE ABOUT GRAMMAR:
Our comments almost never need moderating, almost never get stuck in sniping and almost never get cheap and personal.
Congrats on achieving all three in this dreadful distraction of a conversation.
Stop. It’s not worthy of you.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 16, 2018 11:47 PM
Reply to  Admin

Lot of scrolling needed here.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 10:50 PM
Reply to  JJA

far åt helvete för guds skull!

John Calvin's Ghost
John Calvin's Ghost
Apr 15, 2018 8:31 PM
Reply to  rogerglewis

Sorry for the pedantry but it’s ‘Calvinism’ not ‘Calvanism’.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:11 AM

Thank you, If I could correct the Spelling I would. I do of course refer to the Puritan Cleric. Calvin.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:18 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2017/03/globalisation-un-entangled-found-poem.html
ESCHATOLOGY END TIMES PROPHESY
PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION
SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF EM AND KEEP EM POOR
CALVIN SAID Belloc characterised the Reformation as
´´a rising of the rich against the poor´´,
´and indeed Calvin had written the unfortunate statement:
´´The people must always be kept in poverty in order that they remain obedient´´.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:33 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

Tripartite accords of old, a Gold Standard
As Piggs Shit Brics and Lutheran Shards
profer Gaping anuses and Calvinist certainties
Divine Providence and eminent domain democracy perverted.
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2017/03/globalisation-un-entangled-found-poem.html

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 2:22 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

APR
15
Zionism, Calvinism and the “Jewish national home” in Palestine into a “Jewish Commonwealth”
Zionism, Calvinism and the “Jewish national home” in Palestine into a “Jewish Commonwealth” (Theresa May the new Lord Protector?)
Url has the Sp permanently.
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2018/04/zionism-calvanism-and-jewish-national.html
Timonism, The Calvinist strain in Neo Liberal Misanthropy. Zionism, The Money Power Usury and The Petro Dollar. Fall of the Roman Empire 2.0.
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2017/04/timonism-calvanist-strain-in-neo.html

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 2:38 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

Jean Calvin was not a Puritan. Jean Calvin was a leader of the Swiss protestant reformation. Reformed and Presbyterian churches trace themselves from his reforms, while others including Congregationalist and Baptist and the English Puritans draw on his theology.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 3:05 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

Thank You for that.
Do you see the influence of and SImilarity to Chosenness In Judaism and Unconditional Election In Calvinist Theology? Government structures and conventional pieties all hold on to the DNA of the creation of Modern States and disestablishment of the church from state is something of a paper tiger.
Free Will and determinism as age-old adversaries explains much of the ideology in political belief systems.
David Graeber puts it this way.
the underside of the Western tradition
“Western philosophy, after all, really begins with the quarrel between Heraclitus and Parmenides; a quarrel that Parmenides won. As a result, from almost the very start, the Western tradition marked itself by imagining objects that exist, as it were, outside
of time and transformation. So much so that the obvious reality of change has always been something of a problem.”
David Graeber. p.19.
http://www.commoner.org.uk/10graeber.pdf
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2017/06/uk-general-election-2017-top-of-bill.html
Meyssan’s article here https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Who_is_the_Enemy%3F
chimed with Graeber’s idea which I first encountered in his Commoner article. And Also Zarlengas Ideas in Lost Science of Money.
180 The Lost Science Of Money
https://archive.org/details/StephenZarlengaTheLostScienceOfMoneyScan44Mb
“utmost need” all things were considered as held in common, and any-
one in the utmost need could take the goods held in abundance by anoth-
er for the preservation of his life.
Clearly much of today’s commerce would not measure up to the
Scholastic’s standards of justice in trade.
THE SCHOLASTIC VIEW OF MONEY
The Scholastics concentrated more on economic than monetary rea-
soning, but still had the most advanced theoretical concept of money of
the period, except perhaps for those involved in banking. Two basic
views on money were shared by most Scholastics.
First, they correctly maintained that there was a distinction between
money and capital goods. While this distinction, even made by Aristotle,
is the first key step necessary to advance monetary thought, it is a point
that Calvin’s Reformation found critical to dispute. Thus we find a
relentless attack against Aristotle, over the 16 th , 17 th and 18 th centuries.
In the 20 th century the advocates of usury, or capitalism, such as Ayn
Rand, have taken a different tack, appearing to embrace Aristotle, while
obscuring or ignoring his monetary message. ”
With Bojos reference on Marr earlier to a Carthaginian Peace
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2017/07/ceterum-censeo-carthaginem-esse.html

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 3:54 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

comment image

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 4:05 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

A fifth Language?

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:15 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

Yes.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:16 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

Swedish is my fifth language.
Pictures are worth a thousand words.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 4:25 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

The internet as a medium is difficult as eye contact and body language say so much. I imagine you wrote that with a smile and I am also smiling. Not smiling emptily but with my eyes.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:31 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

You have a very fertile imagination!

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 4:39 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvgaxQGPg7I thought you might like this.

Hoping for a sunny Monday as changing to summer tyres/(tires(sic)) on my car today.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:55 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

I tend towards seeing the Universe as being both a hologram and a torus.comment image

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 5:02 AM
Reply to  rogerglewis

My tendency to seeing the universe as a torus and a hologram inspired me to create this video ten years ago:

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 4:42 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

A fifth language? You’re not Melania Trump, by any chance?

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:50 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Goodness no – I speak all five languages without a trace of a foreign accent! Melania speaks enough of her five languages for catching sugar daddies – not my style at all!

Tim Groves
Tim Groves
Apr 16, 2018 4:40 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

Was Calvin a Calvinist? That’s a vexed question.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 4:48 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

Just like Martin Luther who would fight Satan at night by throwing his feces all over his bedroom, Calvin was mad.

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 16, 2018 6:45 AM
Reply to  Tim Groves

I tend towards seeing the Universe as being both a hologram and a torus.
That’s Funny, it’s how I imagine Neo-Liberalism, two extremes and no centre.

Authentic Discourses on Decisions to Act.
A golden Rule in folklores Canon
holds what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the Gander
do unto others that which to you would be done
thus applied in discussion, we should always avoid slander.
Leave at the first introduction
the habits of Authority and induction
When those listening seem deaf to what you tell
refrain if you please from poisoning the well
if your working hypothesis requires certitude
refrain from tailoring cloth that renders the emperor nude
If to your point, you wish others to allude
refrain from a hypocritical sneering attitude.
When your correspondent appeals to evidence
consider their sources, were they well meant?
In all matters, scepticism will serve you with equivalence
and always remember to mistrust the Government.
“man müsse das Volk stets in Armuth erhalten, damit es gehorsam bleibe.”(2)
Belloc characterised the reformation as
´´a rising of the rich against the poor´´,(1)
´and indeed Calvin had written the unfortunate statement:
´´The people must always be kept in poverty in order that they remain obedient´´.(2)
p.198 Lost Science of Money.(1)
https://archive.org/stream/johanncalvinsein01kamp/johanncalvinsein01kamp_djvu.txt (2)
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2017/05/authentic-discourses-on-decisions-to-act.html
All of you pendants might enjoy this if you do not already know it.
http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/
For myself, I return to Epictetus.
When any person harms you, or speaks badly of you, remember that he acts or speaks from a supposition of its being his duty. Now, it is not possible that he should follow what appears right to you, but what appears so to himself. Therefore, if he judges from a wrong appearance, he is the person hurt, since he too is the person deceived. For if anyone should suppose a true proposition to be false, the proposition is not hurt, but he who is deceived about it. Setting out, then, from these principles, you will meekly bear a person who reviles you, for you will say upon every occasion, “It seemed so to him.”
http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2016/07/democracy-discourse-epictetus-stoicism.html

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 11:05 AM

I could have sworn it was Galvinism. The ‘Electric Messiah’ and all that.

johnplatinumgoss
johnplatinumgoss
Apr 15, 2018 7:30 PM

I cannot see how the Skripal case can vanish into thin air. Some day, short of their execution, the very thing Russia was accused of trying to do, they are going to speak to someone. Our spooks are going to have to answer a lot of questions and it could cause the downfall of May’s government.
The Douma Hospital affair has already been shown to be fake. There was never rationale for an attack, and it seems likely that Putin allowed Trump some face-saving grace after showing him the truth.

John Marks
John Marks
Apr 15, 2018 10:47 PM

There´s already a “Where is Julia?” roll going, especially in northern England.
While BoJo is described as a clown, May is described as a witch who kidnaps young women to steal their good looks.
Unless Julia is allowed at least a free interview, this will swell to a tsunami and drown May and her skulking, cowardly cabinet.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Mulga Mumblebrain
Apr 16, 2018 12:22 AM
Reply to  John Marks

A large enough public outcry would just cause the psychopaths to panic and kill her, a ‘dreadful relapse’ caused by a ‘time delay mechanism’ in the toxin, or perhaps ‘psychic warfare’ directed by Ras-Putin himself, from his lair in the Kremlin.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 2:15 AM

Ras-Putin himself, from his lair in the Kremlin
That’s good, I’m going to remember that.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 17, 2018 1:18 PM

They won’t speak to anyone if the threats are substantial enough. I’m not holding my breath waiting for their version of events.

archie1954
archie1954
Apr 15, 2018 7:06 PM

I am shocked that the intelligence (pardon the pun|) agencies of the leading Western nations continue to hatch ridiculous plans guaranteed to fail, in this age of instantaneous communication and information disclosure. When we have Assange, Manning, Snowden and Kirkou willing to put their lives on the line to help prevent WWIII, then these agency liars in chief don’t have a chance.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 17, 2018 1:23 PM
Reply to  archie1954

But just look at where Snowden and Assange are today. . . I don’t think the hatchers of ridiculous plans are too concerned about them.

vexarb
vexarb
Apr 15, 2018 7:02 PM

Putin’s reputation “to friend and foe alike”: the man who says what he means and means what he says. From the Saker BTL: Grieved on April 14, 2018 · at 12:14 am UTC
Saker, I think there’s a much bigger message coming from the US tonight, revealed by the extraordinary care the US took not to cross a Russian red line.
It seems that the US executive believes that Russia will respond without hesitation if a clearly communicated red line is crossed.
In fact, the attack may have crossed a red line slightly [but withdrew?], it’s not clear yet. The attack appears to have been scheduled for 3 waves, and stopped after 2 waves – I think – when Russian planes took to the air. it’s not clear where they were going. We’ll learn more about this.
What matters is that the US has proved that it won’t cross a Russian red line.
This is vast and welcome news.

Anandamide
Anandamide
Apr 15, 2018 9:20 PM
Reply to  vexarb

The fact that they were in communication to clarify the lines, talks to me of a wider gameplan beyond their public posturing…

BigB
BigB
Apr 15, 2018 9:23 PM
Reply to  vexarb

Vex: have you seen any more on the B-1 bombers traced to al-Tanf? Because unless I am very much mistaken, if a B-1 can take off from there that is a big development. It would look as though al-Tanf is the capital of the FUKUSA occupation?

King Kong
King Kong
Apr 15, 2018 10:25 PM
Reply to  BigB

I agree on this. I they have runways for B-1 bombers , it means 4000 meter heavy duty runway.
When did they build that ?

rogerglewis
rogerglewis
Apr 15, 2018 6:40 PM

http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/2018/04/syria-illegal-strikes-aftermath-mission.html

I think Meysanns analysis is very strong, his work is heavily shadowbanned and there is a good reason for that
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Thierry_Meyssan
Trump is Clearly fully on Board with Netanyahu and the Greater Israel Plan and Ryan Dawsons video is very insightful as to the strategic purpose of a sighting shot.
This is only just getting going, The Neo-Cons want to get at Iran and so do Israel. There is a Challenge to Petro Dollar hegemony, the Petro Yaun, The New Silk Road and an Unsustainable bubble in all of the Wests Rigged Markets.
Expect some assassinations both Character and Physical further false Flags and further intrigues when the Us Carrier Group continues to the Gulf.
Cast your minds back to the Parliament Vote against action in Syria, the media was stymied as all the pre-prepared narratives had to go on hold.
As Mac Millan said Events Dear Boy Events.

Harry Law
Harry Law
Apr 15, 2018 6:17 PM

The idea put forward by Chris Leslie MP in a question to PM May [see your link] and rightly rebuffed by her [although she said she would look at it] that some way must by found to limit the Russian veto at the UNSC.
The veto is baked in the cake, no Russian veto, no UN. China would see to that, besides combined Russia/Chinese populations over 1.5 billion, USA, UK, French combined populations Approx 450 million.

grandstand
grandstand
Apr 15, 2018 10:37 PM
Reply to  Harry Law

Exactly. I’m not so convinced by Thierry Meyssan on this occasion and others. He is too conspiratorial at times. Tillerson seemed to be one of the more sane members of the US Cabinet. On the other hand I would not be surprised if “another agency” (conspiring with “another country or countries” and a British “agency”) might have been planning a massive chemical weapons attack in Syria to provoke Trump into attacking Syria and that this was connected to the Skripal affair.
What would be the point of trying to unseat Russia? As you indicate HL, China is the elephant in the room here. It would feel very isolated among the permanent members of the SC without Russia, so it is not going to allow this to happen. It would also be opposed by many non-aligned countries that increasingly (if not always) see the West as the problem. If the Russian veto goes, why not the US veto? And then who will protect Israel from censure on UNSC when, as it has recently, it embarks on another of its inhumane actions against Palestinians, or attacks Lebanon or Syria.

Admin
Admin
Apr 16, 2018 1:15 AM
Reply to  grandstand

The push to unseat Russia from the UNSC has been going on intermittently for years, it’s not Meyssan’s “conspiracy theory”. Yes it’s senseless and futile, but these people are not in touch with reality.

Vaska
Vaska
Apr 16, 2018 1:51 AM
Reply to  Admin

Their irrationality is undeniable. And I fear that the most recent move to eject Russia from the UNSC is a prelude, a psychological preparation of NATO-sphere population (which amounts to ca. 800 million to Russia+China’s combined 1.5 billion people) for an eventual hot war on Russia, some years or even a decade down the road.
Such a war would also be a message to China, putting it on notice in the clearest way possible that the West will have no scruples about using nuclear weapons to annihilate 1/4 to 1/3rd of the world’s population, if necessary, in order to keep its historic advantages, based on its 500+ years of imperialism, and its continued hegemony over the rest of the world.

vierotchka
vierotchka
Apr 16, 2018 2:00 AM
Reply to  Admin

I don’t think a permanent member of the UNSC can be unseated.

bevin
bevin
Apr 16, 2018 2:15 AM
Reply to  vierotchka

You are right. But the rules don’t count where right is might and there is very little organised opposition behind which dissenters can rally.
Of course one of the reasons why this is so is that there is such deep rooted sectarianism on the ‘left’ that half of the state’s critics would sooner the Tories rule than that those, with whom they have almost imperceptible differences of style or
tactics should replace them.

Jerry Alatalo
Jerry Alatalo
Apr 15, 2018 6:13 PM

Meyssan’s theory and logic falls flat, considering Trump clearly has gone along with the Douma lie, ordered the strikes, and never prevented/stopped it from happening. It’s more likely that Tillerson opposed Trump. Whatever the truth of Tillerson – and considering Trump (according to Nikki Haley at the UNSC) remains “locked and loaded” in the event of another chemical attack – focus upon exposing the historic criminal deceptions of Skripal and Douma and those behind them becomes paramount.

padre
padre
Apr 15, 2018 6:31 PM
Reply to  Jerry Alatalo

I don’t agree!He followed it reluctantly, since there was no other way for him to stay in power!I don’t likehim, but in this case, he was forced in to action by those, who oppose him in USA!

Catte
Catte
Apr 15, 2018 7:05 PM
Reply to  Jerry Alatalo

Let’s not be reductionist. Even if he does vehemently oppose the confrontation with Russia, what do you think Trump can do? He is already being demonised and vilified by the entire neoliberal establishment and the deep state. He is barely hanging on. Any overt opposition – particularly to the anti-Russia narrative – would probably end him. I think we need to withhold judgment on his intentions for the present.
It certainly look as if Mattis isn’t on board with the most recent escalation – at least not at the moment.

Vaska
Vaska
Apr 16, 2018 1:56 AM
Reply to  Jerry Alatalo

Given the amount of co-ordination with both Russia and Syria that was actually involved in this missile attack, and quite regardless of what the UK imagined it would be able to get the Yanks to do, it’s quite conceivable that the whole thing was used by Trump as a deliberate ploy to give him enough “cover” for a meeting with Putin, a meeting the US press would not be able to crucify him for after this. Only time will show, of course, if there’s any substance to this, as yet unexplored, possibility.

Jerry Alatalo
Jerry Alatalo
Apr 16, 2018 2:38 AM
Reply to  Vaska

Were one to take the perspective of world leader as one willing to die in pursuit of great and noble accomplishments, if Trump were such an individual there wouldn’t be any games or intentional lies but only total honesty and straight-to-the-task actions. Trump’s true colors are very, very dark, unfortunately. Thank you for the thoughtful response.

milosevic
milosevic
Apr 16, 2018 2:38 AM
Reply to  Jerry Alatalo

focus upon exposing the historic criminal deceptions of Skripal and Douma and those behind them becomes paramount.
The historic criminal deceptions of Skripal and Douma pale into insignificance compared with the historic criminal deceptions of 9/11 and its lesser sequels. People have been focused on exposing those for a decade and a half.
It’s far from clear what effect this effort has had on the operations of the Empire, which seems to be completed insulated from such exposures by thick layers of brainwashed stooges, functionaries, and propagandists, probably amounting to more than ten percent of its entire population.

labrebisgalloise
labrebisgalloise
Apr 15, 2018 6:12 PM

In this world of rumour, counter rumour, propaganda and black, black arts it’s hard to know what is what. However, I had this from a Palestinian friend in the West Bank this morning (written yesterday), who is certainly nearer to Damascus than I. The last paragraph is interesting!
“Today was the day that International inspectors arrived to examine the
unproven claim by the US/Israeli backed terrorist rebels that chemical
weapons were used in Ghouta (‘white helmets’ were known previously to have
manufactured media events). Today at 3 AM the US, UK, and France attacked
targets in Syria with >103 missiles (71 of them were shot down by Syrian
air defenses, old Soviet Era weapons). Russia, China, Bolivia, and Iran
condemned the attack as a violation of the UN Charter and Russia is now
considering supplying Syria and “other countries” (perhaps Iran and
Lebanon?) with S-300 and other advanced air defense systems. Originally
Russia said it will target missiles and their launch facilities which could
have led to WWIII. It seems there was some sort of “understanding”: 1)
US/UK/France target unused fields and facilities with no damage for
domestic propaganda purposes (to appear tough and satisfy the
Israel/Zionist lobbies who have been pushing for war like they did in Iraq,
Yemen, and Libya and now pushing for war on Iran), 2) Russia and Syria also
get a propaganda “win” having shot most of the missiles using “old” Soviet
era weapons and Syria gets to get more advanced weapons.
They lied to us about Yugoslavia, about Ukraine, about Iraq, about Libya
and now they lie about Syria and Iran. If these lies continue, World War
is the price not just bankruptcy of US taxpayers (already $21 trillion in
debt) and millions of lives lost
.
Recent report of Chinese analysts being examined by Evgeniy Satanovskiy –
Russian leading expert in the field of Middle East. British and American
forces have been destroyed on a large scale in the Ghouta region, with the
22nd regiment of the SAS, those surviving the pinpoint Russian bombing,
that is, having to flee on buses in disguise. This is the reason for
skripal plan and the chemical weapons false flag

Jay Q
Jay Q
Apr 15, 2018 9:05 PM

Wow, fascinating videos, particularly the radio broadcast.