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Guardian archive 2003: Macmillan backed Syria assassination plot

Back in 2003 the Guardian still remembered – sometimes – that facts are sacred and even occasionally spoke truth to power. Here it tells the story of the UK’s various conspiracies (there really is no other word) to overthrow the Syrian government in 1957, by means of false flags, “encouraging internal dissent” and assassination of key figures. Can Jonathan Freedland, Nick Cohen et al still claim the West has the moral high ground when fifteen years ago their own paper was proving it didn’t and never had?

SOURCE:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/sep/27/uk.syria1

UK prime minister Harold Macmillan and US president Dwight Eisenhower discuss intervention in Syria in 1957

Documents show White House and No 10 conspired over oil-fuelled invasion plan

Nearly 50 years before the war in Iraq, Britain and America sought a secretive “regime change” in another Arab country they accused of spreading terror and threatening the west’s oil supplies, by planning the invasion of Syria and the assassination of leading figures.

Newly discovered documents show how in 1957 Harold Macmillan and President Dwight Eisenhower approved a CIA-MI6 plan to stage fake border incidents as an excuse for an invasion by Syria’s pro-western neighbours, and then to “eliminate” the most influential triumvirate in Damascus.

The plans, frighteningly frank in their discussion, were discovered in the private papers of Duncan Sandys, Mr Macmillan’s defence secretary, by Matthew Jones, a reader in international history at Royal Holloway, University of London.

Although historians know that intelligence services had sought to topple the Syrian regime in the autumn of 1957, this is the first time any document has been found showing that the assassination of three leading figures was at the heart of the scheme. In the document drawn up by a top secret and high-level working group that met in Washington in September 1957, Mr Macmillan and President Eisenhower were left in no doubt about the need to assassinate the top men in Damascus.

Part of the “preferred plan” reads:

In order to facilitate the action of liberative forces, reduce the capabilities of the Syrian regime to organise and direct its military actions, to hold losses and destruction to a minimum, and to bring about desired results in the shortest possible time, a special effort should be made to eliminate certain key individuals. Their removal should be accomplished early in the course of the uprising and intervention and in the light of circumstances existing at the time.

The document, approved by London and Washington, named three men: Abd al-Hamid Sarraj, head of Syrian military intelligence; Afif al-Bizri, chief of the Syrian general staff; and Khalid Bakdash, leader of the Syrian Communist party.

For a prime minister who had largely come to power on the back of Anthony Eden’s disastrous antics in Suez just a year before, Mr Macmillan was remarkably bellicose. He described it in his diary as “a most formidable report”. Secrecy was so great, Mr Macmillan ordered the plan withheld even from British chiefs of staff, because of their tendency “to chatter”.

Concern about the increasingly anti-western and pro-Soviet sympathies of Syria had been growing in Downing Street and the White House since the overthrow of the conservative military regime of Colonel Adib Shishakli by an alliance of Ba’ath party and Communist party politicians and their allies in the Syrian army, in 1954.

Driving the call for action was the CIA’s Middle East chief Kermit Roosevelt, grandson of former president Theodore Roosevelt. He identified Colonel Sarraj, General al-Bizri and Mr Bakdash as the real power behind a figurehead president. The triumvirate had moved even closer to Nikita Khrushchev’s orbit after the previous year’s disastrous attempt by Britain and France, in collusion with Israel, to reverse the nationalisation of the Suez canal.

By 1957, despite America’s opposition to the Suez move, President Eisenhower felt he could no longer ignore the danger of Syria becoming a centre for Moscow to spread communism throughout the Middle East. He and Mr Macmillan feared Syria would destabilise pro-western neighbours by exporting terrorism and encouraging internal dissent. More importantly, Syria also had control of one of the main oil arteries of the Middle East, the pipeline which connected pro-western Iraq’s oilfields to Turkey.

The “preferred plan”adds: “Once a political decision is reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS [MI6] will attempt, to mount minor sabotage and coup de main incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals.

“The two services should consult, as appropriate, to avoid any overlapping or interference with each other’s activities… Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus; the operation should not be overdone; and to the extent possible care should be taken to avoid causing key leaders of the Syrian regime to take additional personal protection measures.”

Sabotage

The report said that once the necessary degree of fear had been created, frontier incidents and border clashes would be staged to provide a pretext for Iraqi and Jordanian military intervention. Syria had to be “made to appear as the sponsor of plots, sabotage and violence directed against neighbouring governments,” the report says. “CIA and SIS should use their capabilities in both the psychological and action fields to augment tension.” That meant operations in Jordan, Iraq, and Lebanon, taking the form of “sabotage, national conspiracies and various strong-arm activities” to be blamed on Damascus.

The plan called for funding of a “Free Syria Committee”, and the arming of “political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities” within Syria. The CIA and MI6 would instigate internal uprisings, for instance by the Druze in the south, help to free political prisoners held in the Mezze prison, and stir up the Muslim Brotherhood in Damascus.

The planners envisaged replacing the Ba’ath/Communist regime with one that was firmly anti-Soviet, but they conceded that this would not be popular and “would probably need to rely first upon repressive measures and arbitrary exercise of power”.

The plan was never used, chiefly because Syria’s Arab neighbours could not be persuaded to take action and an attack from Turkey alone was thought to be unacceptable. The following year, the Ba’athists moved against their Communist former allies and took Syria into a federation with Gen Nasser’s Egypt, which lasted until 1963.


196 Comments

  1. USAma Bin Laden says

    I see that the discussion for this Guardian article, which exposes British state terrorism against Syria, has been hijacked to divert attention from this very embarrassing example of Western “democracy promotion” (sic) efforts and channel them towards debates about “repression” in Anglo enemy states.

    It’s really quite amusing how the more bloodthirsty and ruthless Western imperial democracies are in subjugating other nations, the more their citizens stridently insist that they are really well-meaning crusaders for democracy around the world–just ignore how many governments they have destroyed, leaders they have murdered, and countries they have raped. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia are merely a short list of nation recently bombed back to the Stone Age by the Anglo-Americans in particular.

    That is not a coincidence, as Western Liberal Democracy is nothing more than a modern day version of the Western Civilizing Mission and White Man’s Burden–a propaganda mask for Western war criminal nations to hide behind. First and foremost, this is true of the Americans, British, and Anglo imperial nations in general.

    The historian Tacitus once wrote of the Roman Empire: To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a desert, they call it peace.

    Today, this characterization must be updated for the Anglo-American Empire: To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a desert, they call it freedom and democracy.

    • Top CLASS comment .. !

      Which puts “LITTLE BOY” Bibi & “FAT MAN” Trump into some form of objective historical perspective , in a rational manner ..

      Your comment shines like the brightest STAR
      & ‘ta’.. for elaborating & the edifying energy expended.

      • You have no idea how much that makes me Laff’ n’ Laff, having parked my Truck & Trailer right next to ‘IT’ , (many times), in order to unload (& observe 🙂 ) & re-load the WHOLE damned contents, personally ! !!

        ‘Their’ widely various behaviours, the widely various equipment & baggage &&& i especially enjoyed the Al-Gore Family inc./k etched in my memory, (more than the Clintons), indelibly ..

        LALALand states of mind , body & soul ..

        Lol, naaaah LMAO >> BWAHAHAHAHA >> (nice one ! 🙂 🙂

        • reinertorheit says

          It was back in the days when Steve Bell was a respected cartoonist. These days he’s just another Grauniad rent-a-gob, sadly.

    • I thought the idea of the article was to demonstrate age old Male Malice Aforethought 🙂 thus I mentioned Egypt & Israel, for some extra connectivity to demonstrate how the warring desires of Zionists never stopped, from WW2 onwards & the obvious age ole’ colonialist ZIONIST desires to dictate in the “region”: even, Britain’s abuse of Egypt’s National Heritage (A Pyramid) for Military Intelligence, prior to Suez, and tendered a bit of background and how women were not to blame:) if you want more up to date , try this following link .. coz’ your link (2 effectively) just mentions the usual US Media White Wash & history already well known: but what nobody is discussing is that Erdogan (NATO member) has withdrawn his diplomats , yep >> breaking YESTERDAY , lol

      ** NATO member Turkey withdraws US & Israeli Diplomats ! ! **

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/turkey-recalls-ambassadors-israel-united-states-180514200635590.html

      In fact The Guardian reports Theresa may chatting with Erdogan today but NOBODY is reporting that a NATO MEMBER (TURKEY) HAS WITHDRAWN IT’S DIPLOMATS from the US & Israel , i repeat !!

      We all seem to be distracted & highly censored on real time significant steps made by Men ..
      ALL MEN alongside the disMAYing Marionette Ma’ Theresa , the exception that proves
      the Rule of men, (mind you that that bling necklace of hers is well & truly, more than a bit ‘Butch’ & Vulgar, OTT male rapper style, imo 🙂 !

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/15/brexit-may-accused-of-subverting-devolution-as-msps-prepare-to-refuse-consent-to-eu-withdrawal-bill-politics-live?page=with:block-5afb1055e4b03387f9ceec4b#block-5afb1055e4b03387f9ceec4b

      Where does the Guardian or any other media outlet mention what Turkey, (who has invaded Syria with an “Olive Branch”) has done re. Gaza .. NATO ceasing diplomatic relations with each other in House, is this NOT SERIOUS ?? & Israel to boot ? nobody reporting ?

      FFS talk about insane NATO censorship >> not just US ..
      And Leveson2 Rejected !!

      Were i not living within the Border Zone to Turkey, I’d just give up writing & repeating myself ..

      EXPOSE MURDOCH’S Mad’dog Misogynistic Megalomaniac CENSORSHIP ! ? ! ?

      (MENschhhh ….)

  2. wardropper says

    As a civilization we have clearly reached the rock-bottom, nitty-gritty, fundamental fact that politics is basically the art of bullying other people into submission, and that anyone today who actually WANTS to go into politics is basically advertising psycopathic tendencies.
    I don’t think the diagnosis of the problem is an issue any longer.
    The issue is entirely what we can do about it.
    My own view is that the subject of intelligence (comprising all kinds of imaginative, as well as scientific, talents) is crucial, and that this planet can simply no longer be run by people who are self-centred numskulls.
    Universal death and destruction are the inevitable consequence of failing to address this.

    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      Your comment is true of all capitalist states, where the system promotes psychopaths and represses human beings. It is most particularly true of the West, the Anglosphere in particular, and states under the rule of religious fundamentalist fanatics, like India under Modi, Israel, Sordid Arabia and the other Wahhabist tyrannies, Japan under the Imperialist revanchist Abe etc. Whenever any state commences to attempt to create a society not ruled by vicious, parasitic, blood-sucking capitalist misanthropes, the USA and its stooges move Heaven and Hell to destroy the danger of the ‘good example’.

      • I would go so far as to say that’s true of all states that overcome humanity’s strongly fissiparous tendencies beyond group sizes of around 150 souls. Those states that really get their skates on, have a goodly amount of resources, sufficient surplus to develop scientific advance and an effective set of unifying myths grow faster and more aggressively than others and come to dominate the landscape. It just so happens that the cancerous ideology of capitalism is a good fit for this rapacious dynamic. Add oil into the mix and you see the state’s true colours come shining through.

        In my view, it’s direct democracy that will prove to be the healthier way of organising ourselves along less greed- and fear-based lines. But it’s a huge ask, never been done before at this scale and with such an unfortunately and thoroughly dumbed-down populace, not to mention such amassed power marshalled against the idea. If that route doesn’t gather speed and grow stronger, I’d guess the state’s tyranny will just get worse and worse. Sadly, it can get much worse than it currently is.

        • wardropper says

          Excellent ideal, but I have to remind myself that Plato, 2,000 years ago, also considered direct democracy an “okay” ideal, but one which tended to degenerate into anarchy. I gather the ancient Greeks even possessed such a democracy for a short time, with a very high percentage of the community actively contributing to discussion and organization of culture, education and the furtherance of general intelligence…
          That high percentage is now stuck in front of its football-laden flat screens.

          • The idea I sketched out is simply a reformulation of anarchy, which means leaderless self-organising. Anarchy is not chaos, not lawlessness, it’s simply as flat, flexible and transparent a ‘hierarchy’ as humans can manage. Don’t quote me on this and I can’t remember the name or dates of the civilisation, but a BBC documentary a few years back covered an anarchic civilisation that ran for 1,400 years. Quite a stretch. And if you take a peek in Mutual Aid (Kropotkin) you’ll see European city states of the Middle Ages cast as primarily anarchist setups.

            But yes, bread-and-circus and divide-and-conquer tactics are extremely effective.

            In other words, we’re not talking about an impossible ideal, we’re talking about an almighty challenge. Important distinction.

            • Mulga Mumblebrain says

              I reckon a strong central Government run by a party of power that anyone can join, and rise according to their merits, which party directs economic, foreign and social policy along rational and utilitarian lines, and allows and encourages direct democracy at the local and community level, is the best model. Individual accumulations of wealth out to be severely restricted and taxed heavily between generations. Ecological survivabilty needs to be the supreme priority, and those who find their ‘freedom’ and ‘enterprise’ thus thwarted ought to be given a free one-way ticket to the USA or UK or some other ‘Free Market Paradise’.

              • Slightly off topic, but tangentially related I feel, so…

                Ecological survivabilty needs to be the supreme priority

                For this to be systemically robust, in my view, we would need a new economics that has radically different definitions and wealth and value at its core. Hence:

                Individual accumulations of wealth

                ought not to be impossible in the first place. This is a critical point. Capitalism is about leveraging accumulated wealth/value. If our ‘new’ system continues to equate money with wealth, that equation would act corrosively on civic cohesion over time. It would make it ‘rational’ to strive to be far ‘richer’ than others, which is why capitalism is a more effective model for money-based ideas of wealth. Wealth ought to be reconceived as interdependent individual health emerging from healthy environment, community, trust, etc. Economics would need to be about sensible husbandry of ecological processes, that sort of thing.

                I also think your model has a systemic problem with the relationship between direct democracy for the folk on one side, and a strong central government for the rulers on the other. “Strong” means powerful. Power corrupts. I think institutions of governance that report to directly democratic bodies would be better in the long run. According to David Graeber, this sort of model is in operation in Rojova:

                Makes for interesting listening, imo.

                • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                  Without a strong central Government the psychopaths would take over because of their delight in killing, stealing, bullying etc. Indeed that is the situation under all Free Market states, as we can see all about us. To keep the Government from itself becoming dominated by psychopaths is difficult, but not impossible. Under capitalism it is inevitable. Did you mean to say, ‘…individual accumulations of wealth ought not to be POSSIBLE in the first place’, rather than ‘impossible’?

                  • Alpha Particle says

                    We HAVE a strong central govt, and we have had in most of the western world for most of our history. Strong central govt is the preferred system of the 1%.

                    And environmentalism is their preferred method of selling fascism – in a cool Green box

                    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                      I should have said a ‘strong, benign, central Government, consisting of human beings, not psychopaths’. A critical problem is to keep the psychopaths OUT. As to your comments re. environmentalism, do you deny the various pollution crises, the most dangerous anthropogenic climate destabilisation, assailing the planet?

                  • Without a strong central Government the psychopaths [do] take over because of their love of power.

                    Isn’t my edited version truer? Haven’t we seen that throughout history?

                    Here’s my logic in, I hope, an improved formulation:

                    1 Infinite growth of anything physical on a finite planet is impossible.

                    2 States are ‘endemically’ growth-based because they are hierarchical and property-based in their origins. This structural dynamic emerges from a scarcity-based view of nature, itself rooted in farming. Farming divides nature into friend and foe, sets a boundary wall between the domesticated and the wild. The strong tendencies of both halves of this unfortunate dichotomy to reunite have to be fought against in perpetuity at the same time that farming requires ‘owned’ land that can barely produce enough. After a long time and lots of practice, farming gets to produce a surplus. That surplus attracts ‘thieves’ who set up protection rackets based around taxation of said surplus, which leads inexorably to wars, slavery, money, market/state etc. And there’s never enough to go around in that fierce competition both within and between states for all that new ‘wealth’ because the whole thing is driven by fear-based greed. Hence exploitation. Hence extraction. Hence expansion.

                    3 The net result of the logic in 1 and 2 is that the state is the wrong structure for steady-state economics. Steady-state economics has to be abundance-based to function, has to systemically encourage (somehow) a cooperative version of competition (i.e. from the latter’s latin root meaning “to strive together”) so as to not encourage endless exploitation of the rest of nature via the impulsive greed that is the necessary result of a scarcity-based perspective.

                    I understand where you’re coming from, but disagree that repression via a strong state can work. It doesn’t matter how good our intentions are unless the structure is such that it does not attract psychopaths. And in the end, ‘psychopaths’ (psychopathy is probably better) are responding to and shaped by their milieu, as we all are. Systems structure perception. Indeed, perception is impossible without structure.

                    And yes, I meant “impossible”. What I mean is that wealth, properly understood, is health. But the kind of health that is the ever-evolving and emergent consequence of “As I do unto Other, so I do unto Self”. It’s a wholistic, systemic process. In other words, how can I accumulate health for Self at the expense of Other? It’s impossible, nonsensical. Health is about healthy, freely nurtured interdependencies, not fiercely defended independence.

                    • Argh!!!

                      I misremembered my original comment. My bad. Yes, “ought not to be possible”, or “ought to be impossible”. Sorry for the repeated confusion.

                      Editing function please, dear admins!

                    • The admins cannot do anything about editing – it is a WordPress site and it is WordPress that hasn’t introduced an editing function.

                    • Not true at all, V. We are planning to upgrade the comment software as part of the upgrade, hopefully to include an edit function.

                    • My bad, then. I was under that impression because I haven’t seen a single WordPress site with editing included in comments. 🙂

                  • I just want to quickly add that I’m happy to be wrong about this. There are many ways, I guess, that we can set up a more honest and transparent system. What matters far more than how you, I, and anyone else discusses what is ‘needed’ – i.e., our preferred prescription for a Better World – is the combination of our intentions and competence/maturity going forward. After that, it will be about experimentation, as it always is.

                    • Funnily enough, dat’s exactly the way I see it: and i believe a sophisticated Open A.i & ‘eye’ , might just make life a whole lot easier in terms of establishing any one’s true M.O. or Mens Rea, in the most non-pedantic & positive of “fashions” .. soon enough.

                      And dat’s what counts, sharing positive reasoned intentions from which we collectively learn to confront our own fallible characters, even demons, whilst tendering real time solutions, trial & error .. compounded by binary learning .

              • Warning, off topic 🙂
                🙂 Local Democracy ?? Hmmmm, with safe Guards & Moral actioning & some fail safes, a very complex question indeed.. thus , i must hope for & trust in Chinese A.i. >> the all seeing eye in a Pyramid Diamond Photon formulation !!

                Because, the Turkish Wood Mafia here, with full governmental corrupted cooperation, & EU Cognisance (scything the Original First ever European Forest & Holy Cow (the Rodope Short Horn), post Ice-age, Homeland Forest of Orpheus and it’s truly unique invaluable bio-diversity & European Heritage), have imported a cheaper than cheap & cheekier than Trump Roma Labour Force, with zero education or any comprehension of environment or hygiene or Moral Values of any sorts, whom my wife must now teach in school, due to the ‘economically enforced’ (& with fear) exodus of all young Bulgarians and half of the Pomak / educated Turks, too ! .. In fact, the Demographic change for my 60 year old wife , since 2005, is such that huge tensions have arisen within the ranks of the teachers, as well, to boot: because the school would potentially be closed now, (after a corrupted EU absurdly costly renovation, checking money spent), due to failing numbers of indigenous Kids .. with almost only Roma kids now in classes, who are also even PHYSICALLY threatening their educators, on occasions & daily disrespectful towards all societal values, disciplines & a culture of antiquity long ancient & B.C. and not in the slightest bit grateful, with minuscule odd exceptions ..

                Migrants & Refugees would be better , said simply , imho !!

                You would not believe what we have to endure in terms of reckless , ignorant , insulting behaviours & organisation for integration, from our politicians and the EU, not to mention the Gypsies, who think that they can do WTF they want, whenever they want, wherever they want and in my garden too & with wild horses that I personally introduced & donated for Free, (before I.P. thieving NGO’s) to improve mountain pastures for ALL SPECIES, not just human ! with just 2 Policemen to regulate incredibly anti-societal behaviours now, within a total regional municipal population of 18,000 !! (Though BG has the 8th largest per capita Police force in the whole World, but not here ..)

                And of course soon, these Roma kids that are wholly ill-disciplined & inherently destructive & thieving in EVERY imaginable way, as instructed from a very young age, with illiterate, ill disciplined parents, will soon be able to VOTE, like their parents, already ! !

                This is SCARY .. coz’ the gypsy sells his vote for a job & for peanuts & a beer effectively .. Fact.

                After what I have seen of & on the Balkans since 1991, (when I was living in referendum land Switzerland, ostensibly, until 2004), I have to say openly , that due to the incessant & uninterrupted Zionist plan of dumbing down societies, (in a multitude of manners & strategies), Direct Democracy right here right now, would simply turn >>

                FEUDAL & self destruct all society !

                And I would be telling my wife ..
                “Dani get yer’ GUN ! ”

                I now need to protect myself & others, daily .. periodically physically _And the Skripal case most certainly did not help, as it undermined hard earned credibility, in the few intelligent minds that remain ..

                For the first time in my life i am seriously considering building myself an electronic weapon ! .. like NATO deploys daily against us, manipulating our weather on top, & weaponising it, I swear .. self defence & survival is foremost daily, not just in my mind, but in the minds of the few intelligent remaining Bulgarians in the region bordering Turkey & Greece: and the EU would never dream of discussing our societal problems, because it was always THEIR STRATEGY with Zionist Backing ..

                Pick d’bones out of that messy , but sincerely concerned heartfelt comment, from someone not living in LALALand, believes in Live & let Live , but can also define ‘FREEDOM’ in Law , bro. 😉

                P.s. All credit to my wife’s bravery, patience & perseverance as teacher .. who has changed her mind on the EU completely since and prefers today the ole’ COMMUNIST TIMES completely, when she worked with Censorship as Radio Moderator ..

                Bless her, she was so hopeful, all for nothing .. & i tried to explain that the biggest Mafia was coming, back in 2005 .. the >>

                ZIONIST EU MAFIA ! !

                (She finally understands .. the dirty tricks brigade, Weaponising Weather &&& against any societal cohesion of any culture of any kind .. sadly reflecting with disgust upon E.i. & more fondly on times past ! !)

                • I think what I am expressing is what Irina Bokova @UNESCO established , not long ago , in Law, finally at the U.N. & that is that >>

                  “The Destruction of Culture is a Terrorist Act”

                  and the development of a sophisticated A.i. that incorporates , also Roma Culture as well, in a responsible proportional & accountable manner, would be for the benefit of ALL Scientific Humanity & societal recognition ..
                  Whilst respecting our one common Environment , Biosphere , Climate Change experience & MOST importantly our one common Ionosphere & Magnetosphere, which is quintessential to the conductivity of any and ALL ENERGY forms connected to Grounding & foundations of any thought !

                  Terra Firma ia an electrical terminology ..

                  Because we simple humans are neither ‘Neutral nor Infallible’ , if you get my drift?
                  Bare in mind I & my wife have tried for a lot more than just one decade to re-construct naturally, failed systems of education & Communication Channels, that have been wholly corrupted for personal self interest & pure material goals that are KILLING this planet , systemically ..

                  The core question you need to quantify for yourself first is what does FREEDOM mean ?

                  • Thank you for your reference of Roma culture – I have a good dollop of Rrom blood myself – in Russia, it was acceptable for nobles to marry beautiful Tzigane women. I am considered by the Tziganes to be a phuri dai. 🙂

                    • Lol, many thanks for that revealing comment. I best be extra respectful in future, Phuri Dai : I think an amazing lot of people might be really quite surprised just how much Roma DNA , exists in their families’ heritage, (especially today as travel has become so much easier in some senses) : I mean this sincerely, you could be a big help to me in future elsewhere, & in these pages of history recorded here @OFFG > coz’ we both know that kids all over don’† care for discrimination, racism or bigotry & instinctively, never did .. but most love music, song & dance, which is one common universal method of bonding & expressing Soul .. (not just “Sexual Healing” as Marvin sang, though I do love Marvin, he’s done better than that 😉 ).. (Thus I loathe Slavi Trifonov for his corruption & commercialisation of d’Chalga music, original ‘stuff’ being so much more soulful than today 😉 )

                      & that’s but one aspect of a very natural & free spirited & grounded lifestyle: that many can easily relate to, profit from & benefit from what grows in the knowledge of forests, the DNA of flora & fauna, for free, just to make a cuppa’ tea or disinfect wounds, or foraging nuts, flowers & herbs, lol, even riding the horse or hooking the horse to the cart: most important being all the ‘horse psychology’, not just of / for & against men.. 😉 involved in developing the Trust & loyalty requisite to developing the soul to share remedies/solutions : the simple but important disciplines, like listening to the horses’ signals ..
                      As Phuri Dai (respect a key factor to ANY soul) , you know better than me, that it is not just a male orientated “Gypsy King” culture, thur’s a Queen too, that most totally fail to consider or respect; Unfortunately .. read this crazy laughable statement from Britannica.com >>

                      “Because of their migratory nature, their absence in official census returns, and their popular classification with other nomadic groups, estimates of the total world Roma population range from two million to five million. ”
                      WTF 🙂 ??

                      The Roma culture, lifestyle & history needs to be much more rationally recorded, accurately, out of any rational natural curiosity for history, anthropology &&& what is shared worldwide, inc. Music song & dance , sure but not just and I think that a major obstacle to this has been men .. and their attitudes both within & outside the Roma communities. It can be bewildering to see the systemic regimented control exerted over women in any culture, still today .. #nuff’ said ..

                      Trying to think of the best way to express this all simply:-

                      In my dreams, I have asked Sadé to marry me a lot more than a thousand times .. and I really don’t care a ‘tinkers’ for her bank account or blood count (DNA), coz’ it is her most natural talents, spirit & soul that is so attractive ..
                      (& she loves horses 🙂 )

                      Wiki says half Nigerian/British but who really knows about her dad’s mum & dad ? maybe there’s some Phuri Dai in Sadé’s distant heritage, lol.. signified naturally by her electronically GROUNDED sense & tendency towards

                      Barefoot ! 😉 🙂

                      Micro Radio Waves , received & transmitted ..
                      You feel me ? Coz’ that’s what we all of us are doing, thanks to our Magnetosphere ..

                    • Just for you, my friend Leonsia Erdenko, Russian Tzigane singer. Russian Tzigane music is, to me, the most beautiful of Gypsy music:

                    • Beautiful & so soulful , I reckon even the horses got the message:) (coz’ it really looked like they were listening too, lol,) even if they were not in the room ..

                      There again, I figure any horse, male or female, would have listened to her vocal harmony, most patiently with pleasure & a sense of calm reflection would prevail .. and the horse could have been easily led in & out, with their ‘antennas’ in tune with her resonation of spirit: no fears & totally seduced by what she had to say/sing ..

                      Gonna’ listen more of the Russian Tzigane music in future, as soon as anybody even mentions Slavi T’..(cough splutter, enough).
                      I’m weaponised, thanks for dat’ 😉

                • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                  Yes, but not like your beloved Ukronazi one party state, a party of bloodthirsty psychopaths.

            • wardropper says

              Sure.
              But I think Plato was concerned that the kind of anarchy into which direct democracy tended to morph was NOT the good kind.
              After all, today’s Greece is hardly the inspiring thing which Plato’s Greece was… It is certainly more modern, but it is no longer a pinnacle of human cultural achievement. No offence intended towards the many cultured Greeks who ARE doing inspiring things.

              • That’s based on a misunderstanding of anarchy. We have instilled in us a state-based interpretation of the idea that screams violence and chaos. It takes research and study to undo that perspective. Plato was about tough rule because humans can’t really be trusted in his worldview. Like Hobbes after him and elsewhere throughout civilisation, the paternalistic/patriarchal view strongly colours what is thought to be ‘human nature’. Roughly, there are talented, exceptional humans that should make all the grown up decisions, then the mobbish rest. It’s an offensive patrician snobbery that emerges and embeds from state-based processes over time. Today, it feels ‘natural’ to see human reality in that light. In my view, that’s evidence of a kind of slow-burn Stockholm Syndrome.

                When we talk about contemporary Greece, we’re talking about a failed state, not an operational and healthy anarchic (directly democratic society. There’s a big difference. Greece was also shat on from a great height and is still labouring under the weight of all that ruthless extraction. All social forms can become dysfunctional. There’s no mechanical utopia that requires zero vigilance or effort to sustain. Entropy works its magic on absolutely everything. Thus, anarchy too requires effort to sustain. Anarchy is not about laziness. It’s about honesty, authenticity, transparency and democracy.

                • Yep, Goldmans sacked & bagged the Greeks with a carrot and Tsipras has proven himself more concerned with his own glory & ego, rather than that of the Greek People’s or State’s best interests ..

                  Which has it’s price for him privately, perhaps, interestingly .. ? ! His wife seems none too proud or happy, I must observe + comment that perhaps she is more of a Natalie Portman in character ? 🙂

                  (just a thought 😉 )

                  Tsipras still clueless to his original potential as man .. ? ? losing the plot ?

                • wardropper says

                  I’m just making the point that there can be different types of anarchy. The world does not appear to have decided upon a definition which satisfies everyone. Anarchies can fail too.

                  • There can indeed by different types of anarchy, but ‘broken-down system’ is not one of them. The impulse to call anything wildly chaotic or malfunctioning ‘anarchy’ is an abuse of the word.

                    • Precisely Toby & “an abuse of the word” with a psychological re-design in mind, to install fear..

                      amongst other things !

                      Revolt ! ? 😉

        • Frankly Speaking says

          Spending a lot of time in Switzerland i see the great benefits to that country of direct democracy, however, as you say, the population have to be well informed, and they are.

          There was a recent attempt by neoliberal interests to remove funding of the state broadcaster and it failed.

          The Swiss state broadcaster unlike the UK and probably any other country is forced to be objective and impartial and it’s a reflection of the unique Swiss multilingual and diverse parliament and regions.

          They will surely IMO try again in a year or two since to control the population they need to remove impartiality and replace it with their corporate owned TV and radio channels which are as we know propaganda organs for the warmongering neoliberals.

          Where i am leading to with is my conclusion agreeing with you that despite the great benefits of direct democracy it simply would not work in the UK and US because as we already saw from the Brexit referendum these neoliberal rags and other media can so easily sway an uneducated mass (regardless of any potential benefits of Brexit and not to denigrate those who voted for it).
          They’d soon whip up mob rule and get their brown shirt regime in power as the Daily Mail once again declare loudly that their opponents are “enemies of the people”.

          • Mulga Mumblebrain says

            Yes, but Switzerland has benefitted from centuries of economic parasitism on other countries. It’s not a model that everyone can emulate, although Ireland is having a go at it.

          • We are well informed because each time there is an election or a vote, we receive a lot of information through leaflets along with our voting papers. The leaflets explain the issues, and also the opinions and explanations of all the political parties.

          • Have you watched Roger Schawinski with Dr. Daniele Ganser, & the SRF disgracefully ignorant moderators .. just a sample of things seen:-

            “Wer um himmels willen nimmt schawinski noch ernst??”

            As for the other young man, frankly he just deserves a slap ..
            And Ganser gives him a deserved verbal slap in that link above !

            But Switzerland & its’ media model has far deeper, deep state rooted, problems than just that one example ..

            I wonder if you recall all that happened to Ruth Metzler wishing to end the “Bank Geheimnis” with legislation ?
            She sold out, after a warning ..
            Ganser is courageous !

            SWISS State TV backs the 9/11 official story, when AE911 & millions of others (more like Billions of people,) remain even more sufficiently sure scientifically, that the collapse of all three towers was not physically possible without explosives (likely laid by some Israeli “Art Students”): and that especially WTC 7 was the real target, and Physics confirms this!:) on WTC 7, the building with the ENRON SEC enquiry & investigation into the weaponising of weather against some regions & for others not, facilitating commodity trades with certitude, & was used by traders , like from Monsanto & GEC’s pension funds, along with ENRONS Pension Fund, to speculate wildly with people’s Pensions, in a reckless disproportionate & racketeering manner & fashion .. co-opted with Zionists. ENRON was the second largest US Corporation , when it went bankrupt .. !

            I digress: Swiss Media is heavily slanted by both external & internal commercial corporate interest & goals: including the goals of further secrecy , in alignment with those parallel objectives of the Vatican Bank, with Swiss Guarda: and the Swiss media agenda reflects this and most Swiss people refuse to face the reality,

            coz’ “Life’s Good” and they don’t care about the consequences of their failure at transparency & accountability, in other climes!

            Companies like Nestlé, an appalling example ..
            Refusing to certify that they don’t source coffee beans that are SLAVERY Free, believing that “No human being has a right to clean drinking Water !” CEO Brabeck ..

            Many such exist, though people’s awareness is ‘made minimal’.
            And Switzerland is rich in beautiful facades & charades.
            Protecting self interest … ala Credit Suisse.

            • Sorry, I neither speak nor understand Schweizerdeutsch. On the other hand, the French Swiss Media are neither biased nor slanted, in my most well-educated opinion.

              • In my humble ‘head hunted’ professional Media Research & Analysis inc. Financial experience since the early 80’s, opinion, (working night shifts on the morning brief for d’CEO of B.P. when they B.P. bought ARCO oil & HAARP Technology simultaneously ! ), I would say seldom have i seen such a provincial news agenda, as in Switzerlalaland ! Extra ‘Bünzli’ (like their history education), to keep folk so clueless & adrift from any perceptions of world reality: with the U.N. in Geneva to consider, & to boot the Zionist party line disseminated in New York.. ! ? 🙂 Foreign news is largely supplied by the surrounding corrupted nations, stimulated by Reuters & AFP ..

                But then I am trained in studying what is not being said where, when & by whom & why not .. & who owns & controls the vehicles of communications that are orchestrating the calls to herd & swarm & where the corporate interests lie 😉 or will lie, next year, thinking ahead.. as bankers & investors do, getting their “story” set up well in advance and running it by Lawyers, first .. **

                You watch: soon enough, there will be big discussions &&& news about the Talc industry in Afghanistan : check the following link and see the connectivity to calls elsewhere for more troops in Afghanistan, again ..

                https://www.globalwitness.org/en-gb/campaigns/afghanistan/talc-everyday-mineral-funding-afghan-insurgents/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=engagingnetworks&utm_campaign=AfghanTalc&utm_content=Afghanistan+talc+supporter+email+May+2018+07:23:14

                And the U.N. says what ? (nothing .. ! )
                Not thinking ahead, no rush, first seed the minds..

                Of course, a Nestlé or Novartis or a Givaudan, or even CERN might put their ‘Seat’ in Genf or Vevey, Lausanne or Monthey , but the real controllers of huge business interests in Switzerlalaland are usually Swiss German or at least speak & comprehend the ‘Lingo’ in all its’ subtleties & innuendo & shareholder controller commitments.

                Just an observation 🙂

                Sorry, but imo, like it or not the French Suisse are pretty subservient to their masters in Zürich, who tend to call the shots on key issues, like Bank Geheimnis regulation, just for starters: while Wallis & Genf serve as an acceptable face to the world & the U.N. & business with “Interests”.. & a place to front those interests, with cheap Taxation and testing the non-existent U.N. standards against corrupt money laundering (wink) lol, anything is possible, including funding ISIS or Al Qaeda via offshore vehicular construction.

                Sorry also, coz’ I actually meant to direct my comment to the original commenter 🙂 my bad.

                ** Lawyers advised GEC not to buy & own HAARP directly, as any subsequent pursuant claims for damages might bankrupt GEC completely, gone forever after, a bit like ENRON that was the second largest US Corporation at the time it went BOOM !

                The investigation for which was in WTC 7..
                Boom Boom , 2 elephants falling off a cliff.. or 2 birds with one stone, so to say .. 😉

                & Swiss Media totally Kowtows on
                all things 9/11 ! Dat’s fact ..
                As Dr. Ganser duly demonstrates publicly..

                • You’ve obviously never read La Tribune de Genève and neither have you ever watched RTS Un nor RTS Deux!

                  • Of course I have studied both: especially the two RTS TV channels, & their programming intensively: much less the Tribune, in all honesty, Phuri Vieri 😉 I’ll throw an eye regularly, during coming times, just for you ..

                    But think on: It was my job to observe mainstream media responses to info. & news disseminated, for which my valued objectivity was needed (& due to my never having had a BBC Tv License, since 1979, it was easier for me to remain analytical) and therefore, I was head hunted to work for B.P. directly: specifically the interests of the CEO, instead of continuing to scan the media to a ‘Brief’ for them, elsewhere, I could be primed & given extra priorities sworn & contractually bound to in house secrecy, especially on things like HAARP, (for which they must have known that I understood the technology, coz’ of both my Grandfather & Godfather, during their background checks, prior to head hunting me!)

                    Back to today , I must laugh after the link above and what I suggested to you .. well here you are >> The Guardian fulfils my prediction within the week !

                    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/may/23/western-consumers-fund-extremism-by-buying-talcum-powder-claims-study

                    Funded by Bill & Melinda Gates, that article, with that Rocker Feller foundation’s full approval and I could also tell you how this whole sorry arranged story will be developed, to the point that it is both reported finally, (after doing the rounds in more important places first) , in La Tribune and on your 2 favourite Tv channels, and just how much they will say ..

                    Please don’t underestimate the levels of orchestration of the Swiss Media that I am trying to inform you about, or my knowledge on these matters as professional, who also studies Die Zeit &&& many other German speaking publications, before the French ones, coz’ Money Talks .. and the German Business leaders have more money & invest in marketing themselves, than the French businesses .. fact.

                    Get my drift 😉

                    P.s. when i searched RTS live streaming a Tessiner on something totally unrelated to do with Ceneri, (before the kids programming yesterday), there was a little subliminal signal in the top left hand corner of the frame, the whole time superimposed, that said:-

                    “Rohingya – Bonheur.ch”

                    The false pretences of a Switzerlalaland, that Banks the U.N. in all it’s ineptitude , corruption & Faux Glory of misogynist MEN and it is largely ruled by men, & Switzerland is quite a chauvinist place, in case you had not noticed:) my Gran would be pretty much getting on her higher horse and charging through the UN by now, without a word from me .. and the ‘biggest’ men in the UN would be cowering and shielding themselves behind a ..

                    Woman !

                    • I am Swiss and 70 years old, and I completely and respectfully disagree with your biased (in my opinion) analysis of Switzerland. With regard to women in power, see https://www.tdg.ch/suisse/davantage-femmes-conseil-federal/story/19504481

                      With regard to the Chaîne du Bonheur, note that the people of Switzerland donated and raised record amounts of money in 2005:

                      Ampleur sans précédent des récoltes de dons privés par la Chaîne du bonheur et les ONG suisses
                      11 Pour mémoire, les « records de dons » précédents de la Chaîne du bonheur avaient atteint 72 million (…)
                      12 La Chaîne du bonheur a soutenu les actions humanitaires et de reconstruction des principales ONG su (…)
                      14Les dons privés récoltés en Suisse et dans certains pays industrialisés suite à la catastrophe du tsunami ont été sans précédent. Fin juin 2005, les dons versés à la seule Chaîne du bonheur s’élevaient à 226 millions de francs, un montant record pour cette organisation11. Ce montant ne comprend pas les montants récoltés directement par les œuvres d’entraide suisses auprès de la population, mais constituera un financement très important des activités de ces œuvres d’entraide. Il ne couvre pas non plus l’aide directe issue de la forte mobilisation des communautés originaires des pays touchés qui résident en Suisse. La Chaîne du bonheur ne gère en effet pas elle-même les projets, mais finance les projets présentés par les organisations suisses d’entraide qui sont ses partenaires12 (29 organisations au 15 janvier 2005). Les ONG partenaires doivent fournir 10 % de fonds propres récoltés par elles-mêmes. Plusieurs facteurs peuvent expliquer le montant record des dons privés récoltés par la Chaîne du bonheur : l’ampleur exceptionnelle de la catastrophe, qui a touché plusieurs pays, sa forte médiatisation pendant les fêtes de fin d’année, et les victimes européennes.

                      https://journals.openedition.org/aspd/315#tocfrom3n2

                      226 million francs donated by a population of 7,459,128 people at that time – no other country has ever been as generous. These 226 million francs came from civilians and not from any government or other organization.

                  • Oh, and just to be quite sure that you get the real point ..

                    It is NOT us consumers that “Fund Extremism & Terrorism” , as the Guardian intimates FFS, just think straw men with straw dogs, plying false flags & their Zionist programming and the roots of ISIS and their supply chain & ..

                    FUNDING !

                    I believe that it is a good thing that :-

                    “Hell hath no fury / (Phuri 🙂 ) , like a woman scorned .. ”

                    & rightly so 😉 So be it .. War on Zionism ! !

                  • ZIONISM breeds ..

                    ** A P A R T H E I D **

                    to destroy CULTURE ..

                    A Terrorist Act in U.N. Law >>
                    thanks to the intellectual capacities of UNESCO’s

                    Irina Bokova

                    A woman scorned .. ! ? ?

  3. Just an observation from reading this comment thread – and I say this because OffGuardian typically has “the” most sane and robust comments sections of any site I frequent. I would say your troll of the day “Google Talpiot Program” has done a stellar job of quite derailing and redirecting this conversation away from the topic area. That’s just my observation.

    Since it is impossible in the end to know whether someone is in fact a government troll, or simply woefully uninformed and/or simply seeking attention, it seems most useful for practical purposes to not bother to engage with the likes of GTP’s nonsense. In other words, if someone “posts like a government troll” they are in fact “doing the work of government trolls,” whether intentionally or not, in derailing the actual productive dialogue that could be taking place on the topic at hand.

    So my point is why let them accomplish this by engaging with them rather than simply staying with the topic at hand and ignoring troll-like posts that quite deserve being roundly ignored? We deal with this nonsense all the time on U.S. progressive media sites rendering many of our comments sections close to unreadable as a result.

    The link is to some of the Snowden documents used in training recruits in essentially – “how to be an effective government troll.” I find it quite useful to review this stuff periodically as a reminder of what we’re dealing with on a daily basis while simply trying to have meaningful discussions on important topics.

    https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

    • Good comment: (though GTP’s comments are not all together nonsense, unfortunately!)
      I was gonna’ comment to him in the early hours of this morning , but grew tired of thinking on where to begin with his overly sensational and ill founded perceptions of many many aspects related to the history & design programming of computing: & the very fact that he appears to believe that the Zionist is the master founder of all things pertinent in antiquity & today .. (Not 😉 )

      With huge gaps in his knowledge of what is possible scientifically today, e.g. by the Chinese ..
      Fear mongering, it felt like 2me2, having studied and learnt Military Psychology & Science , (as child), from my Grandfather, who worked with the Jews & unfortunately their most evil unrepentant & arrogant Zionist elements of E.i. within , during WW2 & until 1947 .. (see below, somewhere)

      I answered your very question to myself ironically, (exhausted late last night), like you suggested, why bother “engaging with them”, but I think I’ll wind him up a bit somehow, at some point, just4fun 😉 & to avoid any significant effect upon others’ mindset .. as well as research his true character.

      (GTP be warned, I open source intelligence & engineering as a matter of principle & looking the devil in the eye, a matter of importance in my ‘core beliefs’, summed up with one word, a commitment to ‘Sharing’, in order to programme A.i. against E.i. ! )

      FYI: Intercept are not bad on some ‘themes & memes’, but have backers with anaconda agenda, like most. A subjective POV would be , (of course), that we are none of us neutral in any sense and i find that the Intercept journalism can still arrive with a very swayed notion of US core values & concepts of what constitutes freedom of the press .. & values.

      Always worth baring in mind, with the prerequisite care, in all & any “Shared futures”, (wholly unrelated to derivatives, financial & commodity markets today .. which are wholly engineered & with weaponised weather to boot same, with associated interests, strategies & longterm goals)
      Yours are sound observations , (imo)
      Thanks ..

      Best wishes,
      balkydj

      P.s. the Chinese had a higher average IQ than any Western Nation & Israel inc. , when they were still well over 900 million FARMERS 🙂 😉 just saying .. & who invented gunpowder ? !
      Lol .. back to analysing my friend’s sound recordings of NATO’s helicopter activities last night, down here on the Turkish Border , after their daytime incessant Military flights and spraying all over us & adding some high altitude sonic BOOMS in this >>
      “NO FLY ZONE” ..

      “Riders on the Storm”, springs to mind, 4chillin’ music ..
      I won’t slam “The DOORS” .. 🙂 , coz’ “there’s a killer on the road” !
      (and in the very air .. we breathe ! )

      • Freedom Fighter says

        Some good points here but not the easiest post to follow.

        The Intercept is funded by billionaire Omidyar who is closely connected to the likes of Soros etc.

        Some great articles on the Intercept but was with all sources important to take into account the biases.

        • Precisely .. well noted on your part and when you dig deep into most things, not just news dissemination, but also court cases .. like the NGO ‘Global Witness’ for example , you will find names that seed an element of not just doubt, but also illuminate the characters controlling the cycles of an agenda: that appears subsequently at the ‘right’ moment in the Pre-Ordained News circle of events that are featured ..

          So to say , the ability to control the programming & timing of releases of information that flows, only when according to financial planning , more often than not ..
          Correction not just financial planning , but greater strategic goals that transcend money, because the truth is that he / she who holds or stalls the KNOWLEDGE or Legal proceedings, controls the ‘game plan’ , which is ultimately to do what ? !

          I have my opinion, do you? take a guess ..

        • Sorry, that was not meant to lead you on in any way: i expressed myself badly , (i see .. 😉 )

          My Answer: to dictate to others: to limit your rights to freedom of thoughts, actions, conscience, conscious awareness & any creative expression of your will & Moral Values of what might be wrong & right, in your eyes; in order to enslave us , for elite self interests, strategies & goals, whilst harvesting all vestiges of our intelligence and indeed that of any & all scientific creation of any species & their DNA chain, to be logged into A.i for the benefit of an elite unworthy few, (that fail intelligence, or the will to share, same) but that happen to control the dissemination of knowledge, that dates way back before the Council of Nicaea .. (lol)

          It’s a bit of a ‘leap’ in such few words, (I know), but sometimes Wiki can help a bit in this direction (though it is no ‘bible’or encyclopaedia, as you will note from another article, running presently here in the OFFG)

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestiges_of_the_Natural_History_of_Creation

          The real war in ‘Spiel’ today is to programme & regulate A.i. and an elite few do not wish to do this for the common benefit of humanity or the natural common evolution of the Science of Humanities, imho.

          There is a very profound reason why Google was not welcome in China, (nor the Guardian or FB, lol) and it is for this very same reason in Law, that it has been recognised and established under EU Law , (since 2016), that Google is NOT a Legal Search Engine Operator (SEO) and can under no circumstance be recognised legitimately as such !

          https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-not-search-
          engine/160901/

          as we evolve together, sharing all that we know to exist, willingly & factually in real time, open sourcing responsibly with accountability & transparency, so in turn A.i. can work wonders for the collective understanding and SOLUTIONS & that should interest any >> Freedom Fighter 🙂

          or summit’ like dat’ , i believe 😉

    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      What the Arabs want is irrelevant. Only the Zionists count.

  4. Google Talpiot Program says

    Since the 1970s, after the Yom Kippur defeat, Israel has had a concrete plan to dominate the high technology sector in ALL categories including internet infrastructure, computer processor production, cybersecurity, AI, etc.

    They did this through having a special training group in the IDF called Talpiot which is linked to Unit 8200 (Israel’s NSA) where they take mathematically gifted youngsters and train them for 10 years to become engineering experts who are also ready to go into entrepreneurship.

    The graduates of this program have spread their wings and become Sayanim agents in a number of countries but mainly in the US, Australia and the UK. They are heavily involved in internet infrastructure and cybersecurity and also involved directly with the NSA itself.

    Companies to look at with this program include:
    Qualcomm
    Intel (essentially all processors made in Israel)
    Verint
    RAD Group

    The concentration of these companies in Israeli hands means Israeli dominance in internet surveillance, internet infrastructure and soon various other things like predictive policing, the “internet of things” and self-driving cars.

    They aren’t just founding their own companies but going to pre-existing companies or even just outright stealing from those companies.

    See what happened to PROMIS software developed by an American company Inslaw and how that was stolen, backdoored then sold on to intelligence agencies. See Bob Maxwell’s role.

    Much of the time they are stealing American tech and selling it on to “enemy” nations, even totalitarian dictatorships like the Soviet Union.

    See Pollard, Maxwell, Rosenbergs, etc. for a long list of Israeli spies who directly gave military tech information to the Soviets.

      • Mulga Mumblebrain says

        But when it did, the Israelis shewed their ‘loyalty’ to the USA by doing so. They also sold secrets to China.

        • Glad you mentioned the Chinese, bro. 😉

          Too tired to send GTP some links tonight and fill some huge gaps in his history of A.i , & “ALL” that he neglects to mention and the fact that Western Tech. can be rendered useless with one EMP, after which China can still communicate with it’s ships in the Med. with Photons from Space, & all the Chinese Sputniks over me here right now (uKnow where 🙂 )

          Not in denial of the Zionist Talpiot program & they can do some pretty FUNKy things, with old & newer equipment, but we both know where the biggest Supercomputers are situated 🙂 and Frequency Modulation & HAARP & Laser designs started long before Yom Kippers for breakfast ..

          Yawn , Leka Nosht .. Think USS Fitzgerald and the container ship, by Japan .. 🙂

          The main thing right now, Erdogan & NATO’s not so diplomatic relations , internally (scroll up) & externally Censored by all western mainstream media: absofurkin’lutely absurd censorship, except by
          Al-jazeera ..

    • Frankly Speaking says

      Very interesting comment. You reminded me of the MH370 conspiracy theory relating to Freescale Semiconductor.

      I guess it’s not entirely inconceivable that “our side “ did not want their latest military and alleged cloaking technology to get into the hands of the Chinese and their friends, hence eliminating 20 Freescale employees from those countries and sending them a dramatic signal of western-Israelii power play.

      I’m not entirely convinced of this particular theory but in the context of your insightful comment it now seems a bit more believable.

      https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-airlines-plane-mh370-latest-conspiracy-theory-were-freescale-semiconductor-top-employees-1440097

    • Israel always was and still is stealing everybody’s Tech. , I.P. &&& (and monitoring this very comment as I type), in the hope of exploiting every single gram of info & intel. to serve their Own Ends & beliefs! 🙂 Beliefs which are founded fundamentally on an unprecedented religious & societal arrogance, that transcends or at minimum at least rivals the Muslim religious indoctrination & arrogance, regarding the “the God Particle” (for want of a better term), that rests within all Humanity, regardless whether you be Roma, Hindu, Buddhist (usw.) .. which arrogantly evidences itself by the use of terminology like Goyim or Infidel etc. in the religious scriptures, which are all founded upon false interpretations or just plain lies, when you dig deeper and find that in the end, it was all just one man’s opinion who convinced a few other MEN, to support his conceptual notions and understanding : and let’s not mince words here & now, (as Gran would say:) ) , all these BUM scriptures, concepts and FALSE interpretations were written by arrogant, ignorant and wholly >>

      Megalomaniac Mad’dog Murderous Marauding RACIST MEN !!

      If you look at the sinking of the Estonia in depth (which the Swedish Government moved heaven & earth to try & avoid) and the preceding deceptions & organisations by Israel to arrange the consistent & persistent theft of Russian Laser Technology, you will find, as usual, that innocent peoples’ lives mean nothing to the ruling elite. Just one very sad example that leaves innocent families traumatised and wondering , life long, why can they not get some closure & exposure of the real CRIMINAL behaviours of men who think they are being, (in some very highly sick fashion) , clever in planning the destruction of the Goyim or Infidel !

      No damn difference , in reality, between the two/too twisted terms .. employed in the very foundations of Religious Scriptures, written by Men, to stimulate RACISM ‘en masse’ & control the minds of others with simple religious pseudo-psychology, quantified by Shakespeare & his character Shylock as the “Barbarous Multitudes” adequately enough .. and bare in mind that it was a WOMAN that was able to mitigate, finally , regarding the “pound of flesh” injecting some real Humanity & Philosophy to the proceedings .. by suggesting that >>

      ” The Quality of Mercy is not Strained .. ”

      Solution suggestion: Religious Leaders ought to drop the totally manipulative RACIST expressions ‘Infidel’ & ‘Goyim’ from all religious teachings in the 21st Century ! (Unless we wish to propagate endless dumb male orientated confrontations and constant conflict with the Devil within the barbarous multitudes found in both the Jewish and Muslim religions ..

      And I believe that this can be established in Law, at some point Globally, not likely in the present U.N. but possibly in the programming of a sophisticated A.i. (which the Chinese well understand) & is why the ZIONISTS wish now to control the technology and programming of same .. only they are too late and the Chinese are well ahead , therefore War with the Chinese & Iran is preferable to conceding that the Jewish Religion is in reality absurdly Racist in Foundation, in many senses ..

  5. Harry Stotle says

    At least the Guardian’s coverage of the Skripal case wasn’t another misinformed clusterfuck …. hang on
    https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/05/13/more-evidence-of-false-information-on-the-poisoning-of-sergei-and-yulia-skripal/

    Moral of story – be very wary of trusting any story related to the Middle East, or Russia in a truth-immune, pro-establishment outlet like the Guardian, especially if you see names like Cohen, Tisdall, Monbiot, Freedland, Solon, or Nougayrède.

  6. “Ever more evidence of the Empiric (implying ‘Charlatan’) Colonialist Corporate Goals of poorly educated, unloved poor souls of Megalomaniac Misogynistic Men Marionettes of low self esteem and zero comprehension of Moral behaviour , within themselves : because they need to impress their self assumed ‘superiority’ upon ‘Woman’ & society surreptitiously, (in secret), making themselves feel cleverer, due to their ineptitude in bed and their inherent inability to consummate & digest the concept of ‘Love’ & respect thy partner & oneself, first & foremost & neighbour, dazu : dallying around in the lives of others , with no Moral or Legal RIGHT to do so from A > Z :
    & ill gotten ‘gold’ , facilitates them .. ”

    (My Gran was always saying , & in short .. (she laughing , then uttering the word 😉 )

    “Cuckolds” !
    “Prostituting themselves & hopefully others too, making themselves feel grander, & in control by common associations with bestiality .. simply said Llareggub ..”

    Gran ran the regional Telephone & Telegraph Exchange , from her house in S.Wales during WW2, ensuring that her name was on the mortgage in the 1930’s: while b’Amps was designing & building Radar & Radio installations from 1938 – 1947, finishing in an Egyptian Pyramid , occupied in order to monitor Israel , the ‘Zionists’ and the movements of many innocent Jews too, some of whom he had worked with , on many Black/False Flag ops. in Libya & thereabouts ..

    B’Amps was supposed to stay until 1948, but after some of his colleagues were murdered by Zionists in a bomb blast in Jerusalem in 1946 , he demanded to go home finally, threatening to >>
    WALK & talk his way home ..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_bombs_in_Palestine_and_Israel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    “The military telephone exchange was situated in the basement.”

    Enough was enough ? Seemingly not ! Times have NOT changed ..
    Nor the root cause, my Gran (R.i.P.) would say .. “Men .. ”

    “Cuckolds .. way too many , Llareggub ! the little boys ”

    Hard to disagree .. just consider this !

    https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/little-boy-and-fat-man

  7. Tony M says

    Macmillan was up his neck in Suez as deeply as cocaine-addict Eden, and probably his bagman, and go-between vis-a-vis the French and Israelis, his replacing Eden ‘over Suez’ was the height of absurdity and rubbing our noses in it.

    Always these exposes are of the long-dead and deservedly forgotten, the Guardian, second-rank house journal of the abominable elite after the Times but with long and especial connections to the Zionist strand never was the force for good at any time as its legend and ‘disillusioned’ runaways escaping the fold contend.

    The similarities here however with the present regime-change operation in Syria are striking. Aerial-bombing of wedding parties, as we’ve seen in Yemen too has a long history with it being a particularly sadistic British tactic as far back as Iraq in the 1920s with grisly results.

  8. Harry Stotle says

    Given the long history of subterfuge in Syria one might have thought the Guardian might have finally learned its lesson?
    I mean come on guys, its not that hard – but no, from the ‘White Helmets’ to the chemical attacks they keep pushing the same pro-west narrative with scant regard for the long list of human rights abuses they have become complicit with.

    Kissinger was pissing on their backs as well (or ‘constructive ambiguity’ as Henry preferred to call it) but we can’t expect it to stop if state sanctioned violence is always given such an easy ride by the MSM.

  9. Google Talpiot Program says

    Russian thuggish police arrest peaceful protestors who are upset about the many attacks on freedom of speech in Russia:

    https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/995741495037714435

    Both the US and Russia have a huge problem with militarised thuggish policing. At least the US has more freedom of speech than Putin’s Russia (at least for now).

    • Do you have any data to help contextualise? Numbers of arrests, numbers of convictions and imprisonments? Numbers of unarmed person killed by police? A side by side comparison of different countries would be very informative

        • No – DATA, not newspaper allegations. What we need in order to evaluate is side by side comparative data of how many people are arrested/detained/shot/beaten by the police in different countries. Do you have such data?

          • Google Talpiot Program says

            No, I don’t. Lots of countries wouldn’t provide that information.

            I don’t know if Russia would but I know that countries like North Korea etc. certainly wouldn’t.

        • reinertorheit says

          Where does it say ‘hundreds’? You are lying

          It says twenty people were detained. And that’s all.

          • Google Talpiot Program says

            It’s in the first sentence of the article.

        • reinertorheit says

          The first sentence of the article reads:

          Hundreds of people rallied in Moscow on Sunday to demand the unblocking of the Telegram app, the second protest in the Russian capital since the authorities blocked the popular messaging service last month.

          So hundreds of people attended the rally. If only 20 were detained, ergo the vast majority were left alone by the police. Considering that the event was an unsanctioned (ie not permitted) gathering, that’s quite remarkable, Most European countries would arrest the lot of them.

          • Google Talpiot Program says

            That’s exactly what I said?

            Hundreds attended with 20 detained.

            That’s literally what I said in my post.

            Also as far as I can find out the protest was fully authorised. Haven’t seen anything to the contary.

            • reinertorheit says

              What would you know about whether it was authorised or not? Can you read Russian? Have you checked on the websites of the Moscow City Government and the National Government?

          • Mulga Mumblebrain says

            Or they would be ‘kettled’ for hours and not even allowed toilet breaks. In Masadastan, of course, they would just be shot dead.

              • China should encourage homosexuals, not execute them, in view of their efforts to diminish their population explosion since their one-child policy hasn’t worked.

                • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                  China does NOT ‘ execute homosexuals’. That, wherever it came from, is typical Imperial black propaganda. Go to any large Chinese city and you can soon find the gay underground, just as it was a few decades ago in the glorious West. Chinese culture, can you believe it, is different from the West’s, and gays are generally just allowed to get on with life, not hounded, or exalted. I hope China ends all discrimination that occurs, legally, in short order, but black Western propaganda and agitation is designed to hinder that process, just as it did in Cuba, but lost in the end.

              • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                China DOES NOT ‘ …have a mandatory death sentence for male homosexuality’. Where did you get that (expletive deleted)?

                • reinertorheit says

                  China is the world’s leader in executions. They have the death sentence for most other things.

                    • George Cornell says

                      You made the claim, so you provide the support for the statement. And you predictably could not. And your own reference shows the executions have halved every five years , from 12k, to 6k to 2400 in 2012 so 1200 now if that trend continued. So you are wrong about the per capita executions, even five years ago, and you are wrong about the current probable figures. But I am sure you are accustomed to that. Not to mention how all this is beside the point of the article, but China-bashing opportunities are hard to find, is that it?

                  • China is also the world leader in population – if one calculates the percentage of executions with regard to the number of people in the country, it probably is lower than the percentage of executions in the USA. I don’t know, it is just a thought.

                  • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                    Very poor reply, reiner. I’m disappointed. China executes too many people, but the numbers are lessening, and they DO NOT execute homosexuals mandatorily.

                    • reinertorheit says

                      Moral relativism isn’t my forte. They are the world’s leading executors. End of.

                    • reinertorheit says

                      And don’t give me marks on my replies, because yours are none to shout about.

                  • Reiner, please post the link for the mandatory death sentence for homosexuals in China.. One that is NOT connected in any way to Google or Wikipedia or in fact any other Western backed computer programming..

                    Surely you know why I ask .

                    • reinertorheit says

                      I read about that months ago, and I’m afraid I no longer have a link to it.

                    • reinertorheit says

                      Anyone who wanted to know about it could google it.

                    • George Cornell says

                      I hesitate to say anything , given your last skirmish ended with the referees interceding to prevent any more damage to you. I suppose it was a TKO. But once again you express the simpletonian idea that the truth is to be found by “googling it”. Surely there is a key role for weighing evidence, rating it and then for critical analysis, don’t you think? Google gives as much falsehood as it does truth.

                    • George Cornell says

                      You do not seem to know what ‘ignore’ means. Let me help. Do not reply! If Darwin was right you should get there in 100,000 years.

                      NOTE FROM ADMIN: any further squabbling of this kind will be deleted

                  • George Cornell says

                    So moral relativism is not your forte, you say. What is? It surely is not facts. Nor is it debating. “STFU”? Really?

                    • reinertorheit says

                      Poor little butthurt boy – was asked to use Google, but couldn’t?

                  • George Cornell says

                    So you said China leads the world in executions but per capita it is well behind several other counties, even Chad, and even taking proposed, possibly imaginary, American media’s figures for China.

                    You said they use executions for “most other things” which is not true.

                    You said they mandate executions for homosexuality , also patently false.

                    You then start in with abusive language and make the preposterous claim that I don’t use Google, even though I provided you with a Bus. Insider link from it. You in turn have provided no facts, no refs, just blowing your own warped opinions out your backside.

                    You will not find a solution for your flagrant personality disorder on this site. Best of luck to you. And do not reply.

                    • reinertorheit says

                      I’m sure it’s of great comfort to the victims of your Maoist Maniacs to know that they’ve been murdered as a statistic of lesser proportional size than the victims of the headchoppers of the ISIS loons.

                      It’s YOU that’s the abuser. The mental midget.

                    • George Cornell says

                      I am seriously worried about your self-esteem. Signing off as the “mental midget”, while a huge understatement, really suggests you are grossly exaggerating your capacities. Midgets are mostly approx. half the size of non-midgets, and your capacity would be down on a logarithmic scale.
                      Torheit seems to fit you precisely. Have a nice day.

                    • George Cornell says

                      To paraphrase Gore Vidal to Mailer, words fail Torheit once again. Return to your day job as a mole in a carnival Whack-a-mole game. You are out of your league, not to mention species. Now I do not mean that in an unkind way.

          • Freedom Fighter says

            Yes, I know. Reuters is a good source overall but obviously has its biases. Puts out a lot of good analysis and economic news you wouldn’t get elsewhere.

            I said Radio Liberty was an iffy source in the post. Think that should be done when referring to other iffy sources too.

            • Reuters is one of the very top level orchestrators of the cycle of news dissemination & strategic planning of same, inc. banking & bankers in the West !

              One story comes in, another one drops out, every time confirmed by an almost identical report (same words swopped around), only from AP / AFP followed immediately in the English, German and French names of the Spiders net of Networks (TV Radio & Online), that feed the states’ new systems, too, with a private corporate agenda > pasta 😉

              Backed up by the Dutch, Belgium Luxembourg and the Austrians, with Berlusconi’s racket cheap change, Bonga Bonga / Slavi Trifonov stylistics for a distraction to hell & back , before ever connecting or seeing societal danger in an Ivan not so savvy Savvidis, invading Thessaloniki’s pitch, as owner, (it’s his pitch legally speaking), with jacket discarded in disgust at the standards of referees today, brandishing his pistol ! & meanwhile on Malta & in Slovakia , very sad things happening , (oh wait where was I), are yes the italian circus , beyond surreal topped off by the most corrupt untouchables with a SWISS Guard that can do renditions and assassinate absolutely anybody, (inc. you & me) and make our whole history just vanish .. (if absolutely necessary) , or somehow leverage will be applied via some persuaders / Lobbyists, & worse still preaching confessions & confessionals, weekly at
              d’never Audited VATICAN Bank, with their very very elite Swiss Guard and all archives of real EU history and many other nations, stashed .. both History & Science that precedes, all religions that ever gets reported, “for the punters of the Council of Nicaea” ! >> which my Gran thought was a wee bit not convincing , in fact more like totally mansplain obvious total “damned misogyny “, designed to get out of doing the washing up & fund things .. in a considerate, responsible & accountable manner ..

              I reckon my Gran R.i.P. would have made mince meat of Cardinal Sinner George d’pedo Pell .. and his Treasury!

              The Corporate state’s TV’s need coopted backers , so, first they must front politicians compliant or compromised: or character assassinate them: & all so to control self-interest projects , e.g. like not revealing misogynist (page 3 😉 ) Murdoch’s murderous warring strategy to succeed in Syria , with Genie Oil/Energy & no coincidence that Leveson2 has been REJECTED ! Just one example .. that fuels War, with the M.I.C. ..

              The art really is, to always try and calculate quickly , what any source is NOT saying, bare that in mind, & see who clubs together, birds of a feather & Apples & Pears don’t fall far from the Tree ..

            • One funny recent example is the BG. CEZ energy utility scandal, during their EU Presidency >> nowhere reported , except tiny releases by AFP & Reuters almost a one liner , but I found it reported in Manilla, in the Philippines , most punctually , on the day ..

              madness !! 🙂 laughable censorship .. of outrageous manipulations that challenge established corporate policy & politics legitimately & especially principally & morally re.societal development .. of regimented & assumed control methods , corrupted by degenerate behaviours, including Jean Claude Juncker & Co. !

              All covered up .. when Interpol should have been in on, & leading that 2 state debacle from the first moment of any enquiry .. Logic 😉

      • Google Talpiot Program says

        What does my post have to do with the Guardian?

        Or even the Middle East?

        Just whataboutery there.

        • Harry Stotle says

          The OP is about western interference in Syria’s internal affairs (proven by official documents) and more recently a failure by the Guardian to come clean about its propaganda role in maintaining the current war narrative.

          What has heavy handed policing in Russia got to do with any of that?

          • Google Talpiot Program says

            I post a lot about Russia as there is a huge problem in the “alternative” media with unthinking Russia or Putin bias that means that dissidents all falling into a dialectic trap.

            I’m about breaking out of the dialetical prison.

            • reinertorheit says

              You do, indeed, post a lot about Russia. It’s a pity you don’t know a lot about Russia. But I’m sure your sponsors pay you well to spatter your spam hither and yon.

              • Google Talpiot Program says

                I don’t have any sponsors. Just a British guy trying to get to the bottom of the truth.

                A lot of people know more about Russia than me but I’ve got a workable knowledge that is often significantly more than the knowledge of Russia’s alt-media commentator defenders who tend to get their news exclusively from 1 or 2 sources only.

        • reinertorheit says

          What does your post have to do with the Guardian? What does your post have to do with Syria? What does your post have to do with Macmillan?

          But here you nonetheless – trolling this messageboard with offtopic neocon spam.

          • Google Talpiot Program says

            How am I posting “neocon propaganda”? I’m very clearly anti-neocon – which is partly why I’m criticising Russia which is getting diplomatically closer to Israel by the day and is fulled with powerful Zionist billionaires.

            • Baron says

              Tell us please, GTP, you live in Russia, you’ve at least visited the country, you speak the language?

              Sorry to ask you the three questions, but to lend credence to your initial postings the answers are of some significance.

              Russia is far from perfect, plenty of boils and warts, the police do often behave badly, but so do the ‘peaceful’ crowds. More to the point, the organisers of these protest often ask for permission, get it, but gather in a different place, or move to a place where they shouldn’t be in order for the police to hit them, this attracts the attention of the MSM lapdogs who report on it.

              • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                Russia is a country under RELENTLESS Western attack, including the usual ‘regime change’ tactics of paying for and promoting internal subversion by local traitors, compradores and wannabe future ‘oligarch’ parasites when Russia is vivisected as was the Soviet Union. Personally I would arrest the lot, and their Western NGO controllers, and send them to Siberia to ‘count trees’ for a few decades. US ‘diplomats’ would be restricted to their Embassy.

              • Freedom Fighter says

                I’m clearly anti-zionist. That’s obvious.

                “By way of deception” isn’t actually the (official) Mossad motto though.

        • Tony M says

          It’s a convention here and on very many such websites, an admirable one I think and worthwhile other than in exceptional circumstances, that the comments users make should bear some relation to the subject matter above the line, rather than going off on random tangents with short witless quips a child or bot even would make, to actually contribute something of your own composition that adds to the whole, rather than me-too luncheon-meat or whatever demented bees are at present are buzzing around in your or anyone’s bonnets. Otherwise it just becomes a bewildering unfocused confusing and off-putting mess, and I’m sure that’s not your intention surely?

          • reinertorheit says

            Regrettably ‘Google Talpiot Program’ is a trivial but persistent troll, who couldn’t find a suitable outlet for his pet peeves on this site – so instead abused this page by scatter-shooting it full of his deluded crap about Russia,
            ‘lefty types’, and other garbage.

      • Mulga Mumblebrain says

        Tisdall has a grasp on his ‘membrum virile’, and KNOWS what his Zionist owners expect from their propaganda droogs. His high-paying job depends entirely on ideological reliability.

      • George Cornell says

        Tisdall is one of those journalists , concentrated at the Fraudian, whose personal advancement is driven by holding the finger he has just been sucking up to the wind. The guidance he derives from that dwarfs any historical or journalistic imperatives.

        • After much ‘noise’, here & thur’, (Chuckle), your turn of phrase just kills me laughing and as humour, (a daily saviour), serves admirably..

          in this god forsaken world online & down here within the border zone to Turkey with NATO flying ‘ loudly & proudly ‘ high & low, cloud seeding too, this Nature Conservation Zone (a corridor for wildlife , & accidental legacy of cold war lines of demarcation), disrespecting the ‘No Fly Zone’ regs. that blessed this house with tranquility , until BG. joined the E.U. ..

          Keep that wit coming , i say 😉

      • Google Talpiot Program says

        Is that really your moral benchmark though?

        Do you not believe that we can do even marginally better than that?

        • I believe you can. Do try. Like this:

          “‘Talpiot Market is housed in the historic Carmel building, Haifa’s main shuk in a city famed for its coexistence.”

          • Google Talpiot Program says

            Look up the Talpiot program seriously. You’ll see what is happening with Israel’s tech sector and why its so worrying.

            • Tony M says

              Why don’t you take a break from posting links to western mainstream-media pish and traducing those genuinely opposed to and actually doing something to resist the west’s unending push impose neo-liberal monoculture on the world by way of threat and violence, and explain it yourself in your own words asit’s important enough for you to have it as as your username. Does this mean you’re a one trick pony and once you’ve explained and enlightened us you’ll be put out to grass or sent to the knackers yard?

              We’re all ears.

              • Google Talpiot Program says

                OK – very willing to explain it but will shatter some illusions.

                Since the 1970s, after the Yom Kippur defeat, Israel has had a concrete plan to dominate the high technology sector in ALL categories including internet infrastructure, computer processor production, cybersecurity, AI, etc.

                They did this through having a special training group in the IDF called Talpiot which is linked to Unit 8200 (Israel’s NSA) where they take mathematically gifted youngsters and train them for 10 years to become engineering experts who are also ready to go into entrepreneurship.

                The graduates of this program have spread their wings and become Sayanim agents in a number of countries but mainly in the US, Australia and the UK. They are heavily involved in internet infrastructure and cybersecurity and also involved directly with the NSA itself.

                Companies to look at with this program include:
                Qualcomm
                Intel (essentially all processors made in Israel)
                Verint
                RAD Group

                The concentration of these companies in Israeli hands means Israeli dominance in internet surveillance, internet infrastructure and soon various other things like predictive policing, the “internet of things” and self-driving cars.

                They aren’t just founding their own companies but going to pre-existing companies or even just outright stealing from those companies.

                See what happened to PROMIS software developed by an American company Inslaw and how that was stolen, backdoored then sold on to intelligence agencies. See Bob Maxwell’s role.

                Much of the time they are stealing American tech and selling it on to “enemy” nations, even totalitarian dictatorships like the Soviet Union.

                See Pollard, Maxwell, Rosenbergs, etc. for a long list of Israeli spies who directly gave military tech information to the Soviets.

                • Tony M says

                  OK thanks, some of this is familiar. My curmudgeonly views probably aren’t all that far outside the mainstream and general public view.

                  In terms of AI, the UK is by far the centre of this technology judging mainly by the sheer volume of arcane scientific papers on the subject published, but will fail to capitalise on it in actual marketable products and institutional incompetence and based on my experience the public do not want and will not have it, whether its microphones and cameras in their home, or thinking machines, which don’t do what the user wants but what the machine thinks they want. I’d rather have manual control, with knobs, switches dials and gauges.

                  The public will push back preferring simple appliances with the minimum of features, that aren’t all that smart as they’ve no need to be, it only adds to the price, the complexity, multiplies the possible modes of failure, the impossibility of repair and the certainty of rapid obsolescence.

                  It might have some future in toys, games, education and training. So much of what passes for tech is dead-end formulaic structured play, e.g. wildly over-elaborate means of making LEDs blink and flash using a micro-processor, repeated ad nauseum to no real-world useful end except for gaudy decoration, when building a discrete-component equivalent, using a couple of transistors, a capacitor and a resistor is so much more satisfying and teaches concepts which are universally applicable.

                  Where lives could be at stake, it’s not going to happen. That includes self-driving cars which simply are not going to happen on public roads, the result would be daily carnage. There won’t be separate roads for them, and for longer distances trains can take the strain. R&D in this area is wasted unless it finds quite unexpected applications in fields far removed from personal transport, it’s a crazed gamble sucking in capital whilst the core business goes down the tubes.

                  In policing applications the issue of false positives in spotting ‘suspicious’ behaviour will never be overcome, databases will clog with erroneous data and consume already limited human resources having already far greater nous and discernment till it reduces front-line hands-on personnel and performance degrades, and the civil-rights complications that will result will render it untrusted, in the end disregarded and eventually discarded. With those responsible promoted somewhere so high that they’re never heard of or from ever again.

                  I’d heard of PROMIS, in iterations it’s probably two decades or more old involved in monitoring stock-market fluctuations and detecting movements, all sorts of conspiracies swirl around this software, I think much of it is confabulation and awe deriving from ignorance. Garbage in, garbage out still holds true. Number crunching large datasets is a task for hardware/software gladly surrendered to machines, but statistics always was and always will be dull as ditchwater is not more likely to lead to anything more revolutionary other than trying and failing to legitimise bogus subject matter such as social-sciences, masking flawed methodology, authenticating specious findings, and flawed conclusions by resort to the authority of the glorified calculators employed.

                  We always hear Israel and now machines are so far ahead of us all that we should simply get down on our knees and worship our supposed betters and superiors, give up as we’ll never amount to anything, someone or some thing will always put everyone, all us wretched lesser mortals in the shade, this all sounds like more of the same old, same old. Where are our personal jet-packs we’ve long been promised?

            • Sorry, I used to live in Haifa, shop at Talpiot market and work in R&D — but cannot take your “worrying” seriously. Co-existence is my concern in the ME, not the spreading of “worry”, mistrust, alarm and despondency.

              • Google Talpiot Program says

                Talpiot is how Israel has so much power and sway over Western countries – it’s all in the surveillance and backdoors.

                It’s got to be talked about otherwise there will never be peace.

                • Tony M says

                  I think it’s FUD: sowing fear uncertainty and doubt. All we have to do all of us is look suspicious and do suspicious things as often as we can, to overload the still and always essential human component. And what has been built and put in place can be taken down again and thrown in the trash where it exceeds that which is strictly necessary for public-safety and detection of serious crime, not for pre-emptive prevention taken to the point of living in glass-houses or cages

                  Not for criminalising someone with a dicky tail-light or who smoked a joint with friends at a party the night before. Protection from violence and prevention of property theft should still be the core of the law, not though-crimes. Some laws at some times are absurd inflexible and arbitrary and not based on fact but on theoretical but improbable risk of harm. Honesty is still the best policy and is the default for the majority of the populace, and when that breaks down and that deviant behaviour is rewarded, further abuses result, and the law more often than nought, whether civil or criminal provides ineffectual or no recourse, leads to vigilantism.

                  Sociopaths tend to be those in relative positions of power over others and serial-offenders or serious offences should suffer serious penal consequences heavier still the greater their rank or position of authority and trust vested in them.

                  Society rots from the top, like fish from the head, and the highest standards are expected from those who lead us and represent our interests in the system of government, in this country a politician who speeds on an empty motorway or a youth who is jailed for after picking up a packet of gum or bottle of water from the street outside a looted shop pays a heavier cost than the Prime-Minister or secret-cabal who lie and incite and plot to drag us into wars and invasions that kill millions, blight millions more lives and reduce our national standing to that of the co-conspirator and culprits alongside with the thieves, thugs and murderers we ought to be condemning from the summit of morality.

    • Yarkob says

      Really? You didn’t see our own thuggish police using batons and horses to “pacify” the Turkish Kurds legally protesting against their own (western-backed and supported) dictator yesterday?

      Methinks you have selective outrage. Shouldn’t you be on Twitter?

        • Yarkob says

          Google is your friend. It happened yesterday. You’ll probably only find film of it on RT which probably means it was a totally staged event, right? Our supine press only seems to cover stories detrimental to their cause du jour, which these days seems to have morphed from the scary and bad “ISIS” to the (apparently) scarier and badder Russians

          • Google Talpiot Program says

            This is absolutely true about US or UK press only covering what it wants.

            However you don’t suspect the exact same is true of RT?
            It’s about balancing sources and taking into account the bias.

            • Ah, “don’t you suspect RT” as well. So Talpiot Program is about spreading “suspicion” as well as “worry” and “mistrust” as already noted above. Doesn’t sound like the genuine Talpiot of Haifa, well known for secular tolerance and harmonious coexistence.

            • Yarkob says

              as it happens, no I don’t “suspect” RT of as much omission and distortion than the BBC. Having watched the former since it was first aired on UK cable channels, and the latter, since about 1971 (actually understanding what I was watching rather than from a cot) I can actually say that, in my opinion, RT has actually got a lot more objective in the last 5 years. Like really. It is now one of my go to sources (among many) The Graun and BBC having totally lost the plot. I am a license payer refusnik (I actually wrote to them telling them why – needless to say I’ve neither received a reply nor a pay up or else warning)

              Do you ever watch RT? I mean longer than enough to huff and puff at its “obvious bias” and “propaganda” (HMG’s words, not mine)

              • Tony M says

                People can’t get used to news coverage dealing with a story or issue for more than a cursory minute or so before moving onto something else, not to mention, ‘and finally’ type cutesy nonsense, then there’s the obsession with sport, particularly football, which without having it rammed down our throats incessantly very few would care a damn about or have the least interest in. This isn’t news or even sport, but entertainment and belongs on channels or slots (preferably in the dead of night, and in B&W) of its own where such as like it can find it. They have limited attention span and RT tends to deal with subjects and stories in more detail than they’re used to and have come to expect, except when its overblown propaganda or the daily hatefest when the BBC goes completely over the top, signalling something is not quite right about the story, likely that its entirely false or there’s something far more important going on about which we should be hearing but they’re playing down or ignoring it completely.

                t’s not that RT is great, it’s too balanced, in that they give airtime to western establishment viewpoints and vapouring numbskulls that they simply don’t deserve to ever receive and are already well-served by the synchronised sycophants of the state-run BBC, ITV, Channel-4, Channel-5, and the others like SKY. In Scotland dozens of channels from every part of Europe, Africa, China, Timbuctoo, God-channels aplenty, 24-hour macrame, but nothing absolutely nothing from and made in Scotland from a Scottish perspective (except in Gaelic, which I have no problem with) except Jackie Bloody Bird and Sally Effing Magnusson giving it the same old too wee, too poor, too stupid line the BBC has been peddling since it started, and a daily diet of how crap, the schools, the hospitals, the police, the fire service and every other public service are under the SNP and how they would be so much better under Labour the Tories or the LibDems if they still exist.

              • Mulga Mumblebrain says

                I watch RT, and its programs are refreshingly honest and intellectually consistent, in comparison to the Groupthink Imperial propaganda shite that flows from every orifice of the Western fakestream sewer. Best news source of all, in my opinion, is the WSWS, once you ignore the Trot propaganda. They reveal so much stuff that the propaganda machine hides that it is not funny.

                • JudyJ says

                  And RT’s interviewers politely and professionally allow their guests to speak – even those who have a different viewpoint – and listen to their responses so that they can follow up with a sensible, appropriately structured question rather than the tirade of non-sequiturs employed by MSM journalists.

    • George Cornell says

      To have freedom of speech, the overwhelming sources of information have to be free. I don’t see that in the MSM of the US. Furthermore it is clear talking to Americans that they only rarely see beyond their own televisions.

      You have evidence that speech is more free in the US?

      • Google Talpiot Program says

        “To have freedom of speech, the overwhelming sources of information have to be free. I don’t see that in the MSM of the US. Furthermore it is clear talking to Americans that they only rarely see beyond their own televisions.” – I agree that is useful to have for sure and makes the media freerer, more independent and vital.

        The US media certainly has a huge problem of centralisation of ownership but at least on the whole you can own a website without it being shut down (The Daily Stormer one example where that is not the case) – this is not true of Russia.

        Russia also has a huge problem with centralisation of media as well as even loads of suspicious deaths of actual journalists. RT pushes an extremely pro-Kremlin line.

        Russia also has various laws against holocaust denial, “hate speech”, even criticising the conduct of the Red Army in WW2.

        US media landscape is scarily controlled and centralised however far more freedom of speech overall than in Russia for sure.

        • JudyJ says

          “Russia also has various laws against…”. And other countries like the UK don’t? The difference is that Russian laws are transparent, the UK dresses them up as something else. In 2015 Theresa May took the decision when she was Home Secretary to ban American holocaust denier Mark Weber from entering the UK for “unacceptable behaviour”. There are generic public order laws in the UK which make it an offence to indulge in ‘unacceptable behaviour’, ‘incite disorder’, ‘incite hatred and violence’. These laws could cover any activity depending on who is passing judgement and what their perspective is.

          • reinertorheit says

            The British bogus ‘historian’, David Irving, was arrested in German in connection with his book publications, which serially deny the planned extermination of Jews by the Third Reich. He was not merely detained, but sentenced to several months in a German prison.

            Australian holocaust denier Dr Frederick Toben was arrested on arrival in Britain at Heathrow Airport, for the same category of offences.

            Canada, Germany, New Zealand, and Poland have all imprisoned holocaust deniers, in various circumstances, and on differing legislative bases.

            • Alpha Particle says

              Point of correction. Irving has never denied the mass murder of Jews in the way the truly deluded Holocaust-deniers do. He has disputed Auschwitz being a death camp, but has specifically named other death camps such as Ravensbruck as having gassed millions of people, majority being Jewish.

              I’m not defending Irving by the way, just keeping things accurate

              • @Alpha. Thank you, having used and quoted Irving’s “Virus House” as a source of info on the Nazi atom bomb project, I was struck by his objectivity and grasp of detail. However, the man (as opposed to the author) also struck me later as a bit of a racist. Nevertheless it is a scandal that the true numbers of various ethnic Untermenschen can no longer be investigated on pain of fine and imprisonment for producing results not acceptable to the Police. Another sign of regression in Western Europe, part of the general erosion of cultural standards and hard won civil liberties.

          • Mulga Mumblebrain says

            Does Russia have D-notices that make people, like the Skripals, disappear?

        • Yarkob says

          @ GTP you really do sound like Rachel Maddow.

          Your nick is interesting, too. At odds with your virile and patriotic Russophobia, no? The Russians are/will be as much a victim of the TP as everyone else, surely? Or are they some sort of Talpiot Program-associated Israeli secret weapon?

          Or do you just have an irrational fear of Russia? Or, a Millbank/Bde 77 troll, even?

    • @Alex. “Russian Thuggish Police” from a CIA folder, file opened alphabetically after last week’s “Russian Rapist Soldiers”.

      • Google Talpiot Program says

        Do you not think the behaviour above in the video is thuggish?

        • @GTP
          “Do you not think the behaviour above in the video is thuggish?”

          NOPE ! not “thuggish” in the slightest ..
          (Check my comment to JudyJ below: dat’ was Thuggish! )

          Indeed , I studied the video and have to say that you have wasted everybody’s time , coz’ I found the Russian Police behaviour in every sense “HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL” & fully aware they were being filmed, they operated in a pre-meditated and exemplary fashion , that would never happen in a place like , let me think , errrr >>

          ** I S R A E L ** or ** Switzerlalaland **, even

          Where disciplines seems a little lapse, in fact wholly out of control
          & wholly disproportionate !

          In fact I can even recall an occasion when a Swiss Police Boss & his ego was so out of control, bang out of order and endangering everybody’s lives , with his appalling discipline , (half asleep) , when on Official White House Protection Duty in a convoy driving to Davos .. ‘ARSCHLOCH’ ! ?

          • The Swiss police are never thuggish. I know, because I’ve lived in Switzerland since 1948 (although I have also lived in England and in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, but have always returned to Switzerland). I’ve attended large demonstrations on many occasion, and never has the police here been in any manner thuggish.

    • Alpha Particle says

      That video looks staged. Tiny group of people apparently surrounded by “cops” nothing like normal police protocol anywhere. No sign of any official police van or car. We see they “protestors” dragged away, don’t ee them put in any official vehicle.

      If it was real it’s actually mild compared to what happens in the USA on a regular basis. But I think it’s staged for some witless reason. Street theatre for the gormless western masses

      • Google Talpiot Program says

        There is a 2 hour video of it here if you wanna watch:

        Weird that you’d think “staged” without any actual proof.

        • reinertorheit says

          ‘RUPTLY’ is a news service wholly owned by RIA Novosti – the same media holding which owns and operates Russia Today.

        • Alpha Particle says

          you need to watch it. there’s NO vid of anyone being arrested or roughed up. Just two hours six mins of a small group of people peacefully listening to some quite pedestrian statements and stuff.

          When did the arrests start? Why? Who filmed em?

          • @Alpha. Thank you once again, this time for gallantly undertaking the burden of a Troll’s Link; as expected, a Nothing. I watched such Troll Links on this site some months ago (by a Matt or a Matthew? insistent poster) again no meat in the sandwich. (Like the Troll Cakes in Peer Gynt).

        • Mulga Mumblebrain says

          Because we’ve seen many of these staged videos from Russia and Ukraine etc, at least since the days of the ‘Orange Revolution’ in Ukraine in 2005. Some, like the ‘Pussy Riot harridans attacked by Cossacks’ were so amateurish it was quite funny. The actors looking to the video recorders for approval or re-direction is a dead give-away.

        • Weird that you’d think to use a Corporate user name.
          Do you work for them, perhaps?

          If not, do you mind if I ask for whom you work now?
          or in the past & your age ?

          Are you aware that Google is not a legitimate SEO, under EU Law ?
          (read: not a Legal Seerch Engine Operator, since 2016).

          Do you understand why they are not legally recognised ?

    • JudyJ says

      Whilst I have no reason to doubt that hundreds attended a demonstration it does seem more than a little bit odd to me that the video purportedly showing “police brutality” (that’s a laugh for a start) centres on a small group of no more than 20 student types (Navalny followers?) who are clearly somewhere remote from any organised demonstration – there is nobody else to be seen anywhere in the background. It strikes me that they are probably holding their own disruptive and unauthorised demonstration for their own purposes and that is an illegal act. I think the people of Catalonia would be more than happy with ‘brutal policemen’ as seen here.

      • Classic JudyJ, I was also thinking Catalonia, USA &&& Sandra Bland &

        “Huh, call that brutal ? ? I’ve experienced & witnessed far worse in so many Western nations including even in Switzerland .. when I was @home in my shower and ‘stark b**lock’ naked at 1.30 am and not permitted to even put on any clothing, or towel , by three real extreme NAZI Polizei , for over 10 minutes, while I discussed their wholly illegal home intrusion, with no door bell used , no knock at the door, zero common decency or procedure , NADA ! ”

        Polizei Bremgarten, Kanton Aargau , Schweiz / Switzerlalaland ..
        (“Dumb C**ts” as Jim Jeffries would say 🙂 , where the police cells have 6 languages by the emergency red button on the cell wall and not one of the languages was even English, believe it or not !! i mean, therein ..

        How would a Chinese man have understood the languages on the wall ? T’was but one strong memory of my wholly illegal treatment & experience .. 😉 that cost me 1,124 swiss francs for calling them (finally after much heated debate) “Arschlöche” , inside my own home, when legally speaking, they were being complete “ARSCHLÖCHE” .. then held for 48 hours and after which all charges were dropped, except for calling them “Arschlöche” , (which they had in fact been, as was clearly established) .. then, they wanted to let me go and I refused to leave the police station , because I had no I.D. no keys no money , no transport , no phone , nothing, just sandals, pants / trousers & a T.shirt and would have been wholly illegal ‘unterwegs’, the moment I set foot on the pavement outside , die Arschlöche !
        So i started to call for a passer by (in very loud voice) to call the police & a journalist from the Bremgartener Anzeiger and then finally die Arschlöche drove me to Work, to explain to my boss WHY i was missing from Die Arbeit for 2 whole days for no furkin’ just reason in law whatsoever, and explain why I was locked up with an Algerian Murderer ..

        Poor PC René Speicher with very red cheeks, indeed ..
        but at least he wasn’t one of die Arschlöche 😉

        At least I can laugh now .. and it puts GTP’s perceptions of “Police Brutality” into some real ‘Arschlöche’ pussycat perspective ! (lol)

    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      Looks like you are the most down-voted troll yet, toilet-pot.

  10. rtj1211 says

    Asking Nick Cohen to confront evidence is like inviting Hitler to a Hanukkah party…..

  11. George Cornell says

    They can and they do claim it, utterly discredited though they are. The Guardian is a complete fraud, trying to distract with the smoke and mirrors of gender counting, of Trump trivia, of Corbynophobia, of Blairophilia, , all the while serving as a devious conniving shill for IsraelAmerica and for their British supporters.

    • Yarkob says

      Oh for that byline on their incessant “please give us some money” banners..If I were a(n ethical) hacker….

      • George Cornell says

        It is a misprint. They say fearless journalism when they meant to say ‘factless’ journalism.

        • wardropper says

          A more realistic translation of the “fearless journalism” mentioned here might be:
          “Us, practice journalism…? No fear!”

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