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Comments 128

Open Thread: The Amesbury Couple and the Reborn Novichok Saga

Obviously, by now, we’ve all read the news. Novichok is back, and this time it’s…even weirder than last time.

The “facts” so far:

  • Dawn Burgess and Charlie Rowley were admitted to hospital on Saturday June 30th.
  • Just as with the Skirpals, Burgess and Rowley were initially treated for drug abuse. In the former case fentanyl, in the latter either heroin or crack cocaine.
  • On July 2nd, the police reported that the two hospitalised people may have taken “tainted” drugs.
  • On July 4th Porton Down reported that the couple had been exposed to an “unknown agent”. Allegedly novichok, although no official statement has been made on this subject as yet.
  • On July 5th Sajid Javid MP, the Home Secretary, demanded Russia “explain” the latest nerve-agent incident. The Russian government have yet to officially respond.
  • As yet, no specific theory on how Burgess and Rowley are supposed to have come in to contact with this “unknown agent” has been released. We don’t know where, when how or why this (entirely hypothetical) event is meant to have taken place.

That said, the following questions need answering:

  1. Are we supposed to believe that this “novichok” incident is directly related to the alleged poisoning of the Skripals? How so?
  2. If this IS the same chemical, why is it suddenly affecting new victims four months after the initial “attack”?
  3. How come the emergency services and medical personnel, who spent ten weeks treating the Skripals and DS Bailey, didn’t recognise the symptoms of novichok poisoning immediately? Why was nerve agent poisoning mistaken for drug use AGAIN?
  4. Why and how did Porton Down get involved in this case? Is it usual for them to test the blood of suspected drug abuse victims?
  5. And finally, what on Earth is going on?

128 Comments

  1. Kathy says

    I don’t think just because you are a junkie you would pick something up in Salisbury and not be a little cautious about it. After all the Skripals and Novichok have been all over the news. A junkie who makes it into their 40s surely has some idea of hazards and self preservation. At the very least you would consider the possibility that it may be dodgy and keep whatever item you had picked up just in case something did come of it. It also doesn’t say much for the thoroughness or commitment of the clean up project carried out if 4 months later there are still such items scattered about to harm the good people of Salisbury. Interestingly most of the MSM seem to be playing this all down now. I wonder why they seem to be losing interest. Again the timing of this had significantly similar timing to the original supposed attack IE. Trump is planing a meeting with Putin. Another decisive battle in Syria is being won by the Assad forces. Treason May is fudging on Brexit and losing even more credibility.




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    • JudyJ says

      “most of the MSM are playing this down now” – yes, even Dawn Sturgess’s death was second billing and relatively brief coverage on the BBC 10.00 news, after the rescue of the boys from the Thai caves.




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    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      Completely as expected the May regime has liquidated one of these human guinea-pigs, so far, to drive the hate even deeper and further. Apparently dastardly Russian novichok grows MORE lethal (twenty times worse than VX?)as time goes by. And the heroic hospital that saved the Skripals could do nothing, this time. Just effing EVIL-as you’d expect.




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      • Kathy says

        My apologies. I hadn’t realized that Dawn Sturgess had died when I posted my comment and my condolences go out to her family. It is interesting that as you MM suggest. This stuff is obviously strengthening as time progresses.I still maintain that it would be unlikely that any drug addict would just pick up and use something that was found in the park so close to the Skripal incidence. It is also sadly no surprise that this time no recovery occurred as happened with the Skripals.




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      • Jen says

        By Christmas this year the British government will have had to evacuate the entire population of Salisbury and thrown a huge Chernobyl-style concrete dome over the entire city to prevent the insidious fumes of the rapidly strengthening Novichok (now glowing a sickly Day-Glo yellow in the dark and emitting harmful levels of radiation) from escaping into the upper levels of the atmosphere.

        Oh wait … you mean by Christmas Theresa May’s government will still be waffling over the expense of cordoning off Britain’s Ground Zero from the rest of the country?




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        • Mulga Mumblebrain says

          I reckon they’ll just throw a ring of steel around the area, leave the chavs inside (the ‘better class’ will be evacuated) then watch as they die from rampant, fulminating, metastasising, mutating ‘novichok’ mass death. Think of the savings to be made.




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      • jantje says

        I believe that governments are capable of anything,what I don’t believe is that medical staff in this hospital would lend themselves into killing one of their patients,let’s keep a bit of a level head here




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        • Mulga Mumblebrain says

          It only takes one nurse or doctor to administer a lethal injection. And you don’t think these sacrificial victims were nursed by ordinary staff, without police and or intellgence supervision, do you?




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          • JudyJ says

            That’s right, Mulga. Let’s not forget ‘specialist’ staff who are experts in CWs were drafted in to supervise the care of ‘the Skripals’.




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        • PeaceCora says

          No-one has suggested that it was the medical staff. Level head??




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    • Jason Kennedy says

      To be fair to the authorities, the cleanup was presumably limited to public spaces, not the insides of people’s homes/gardens/garages/vehicles, etc.

      Of more interest, perhaps, is that, once again, due to the supposedly slow-acting nature of the ultra-lethal Novichok, the authorities claim they’ve not been able to recover the item bearing the nerve agent. Is this the world’s deadliest game of pass-the-parcel?

      Sadly, I did predict that these two victims wouldn’t make it out of this narrative alive, perhaps because they now knew a little too much. One down, one to go.




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      • Kathy says

        The MSM still seem to be playing this down. The headline was taken over almost immediately by the resignation of David Davis. The latest is. The other victim is only days away from death. Of course they did release a similar statement about the Skripals. Who both miraculously rallied at the point the Russians started to demand access and repatriation of the bodies if they died. The whole thing has so many flaws.More questions then answers. How could an area that was so close to the Skripal bench. Not have been thoroughly searched for evidence by the police. How could there possibly be any stone left unturned in the vicinity when it was supposedly cordoned off and decontaminated by army personnel. After all the recent MSM Salisbury is open for business and completely safe assurances how come containers or needles be left on the ground. There still seams to be little progress in even knowing how or when these latest two were [contaminated]. Their symptoms sound very similar to fentanyl heroin overdose. I suspect that The State maybe holding out until just before Trumps visit. When the other unfortunate [drug overdose] Novichoc! victim will die amidst a cacophony of anti Russian vitriol and a demand that Trump cancels his planned meeting with Putin due to Russia murdering of British citizens on UK soil. Peace in our time not if the UK can help it.




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      • Mulga Mumblebrain says

        Mr. C.Rowley went a dumpster-diving, and, luckily (or not) thanks to austerity, he found one not emptied for FOUR MONTHS, and not overflowing onto the street (unless he snorkeled). Poor Old Blighty.




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  2. Willie Wobblestick says

    Look, I do apologise but I think this might have been my fault. A week ago I posted the following poem at MoonOfAlabama and almost immediately “Novichuk II – Junkie Apocalypse” was released to confuse all the stupid people. Once again, I apologise and will try to be more careful in future.

    Nothing to See Here

    Rather like Janet Jackson’s nipples,
    It’s been a while since we’ve seen the Skripals.
    Not so long ago they were all over the news
    As official drones droned their official views.
    They said that in Salisbury wherever you look
    Lurked sinister types splashing novichuk.
    Door handle specialists had been imported,
    Or so the BBC unquestioningly reported.
    A laundry list of despicable acts
    Only vaguely coincident with the salient facts.
    Boris Johnson wasn’t sitting on the fence,
    He don’t need no stinkin’ evidence.
    ‘It was them Russkies wot dunnit, no doubt about that’,
    Said the country’s pre-eminent diplomat.
    KGB thugs sent to put the boot in,
    By Mr. Evil, Vladimir Stalin Putin.
    Novichuk’s lethality was re-emphasised again,
    More deadly than others by a factor of ten.
    Yet somehow miraculously the Skripals survived,
    In Salisbury General they inconveniently revived.
    And that was all we heard for a while
    Bar a weird statement in machine-prose style.
    Then a curious video right out of the blue
    That looked like an advert for flyaway shampoo.
    A chilled out Yulia said she was contented,
    And consular access had not been prevented,
    But no, she didn’t want to meet up with her kin
    (Not that the government would let them in).
    The whole production was charmingly informal,
    As though poisoning and exile were perfectly normal.
    This remarkable young woman’s taken it all in her stride,
    Seemingly happy to go along with the ride.
    Her boyfriend, her job, her dog and her flat
    All peremptorily dumped at the drop of a hat.
    The un-fake corporate media performed as tasked
    Ensuring awkward questions remained unasked.
    And all this ludicrous b-movie rigmarole
    Was discreetly d-noticed down the memory hole.
    The legal and diplomatic situation’s now clear:
    ‘Move along sir, nothing to see here.’




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  3. Frankly Speaking says

    This is a very interesting new strain of nerve agent, it has various new astounding properties ascribed by our British “experts” that simply don’t exist in actual Novichok according to those who developed it or studied it. Let’s call this new nerve agent Portonchok or perhaps even Bolloxchok?




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  4. Antonyl says

    Now that England won and Russia lost it will be too electorally expensive for the Tories to pull their successful team out now. Even MI5/6 can understand that. Novichok on the back burner now.




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    • Jason Kennedy says

      The real Jordan Pickford has been replaced with a Russian lookalike robot who is impossible to score past.




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  5. PeaceCora says

    It is so true that the homeless have to seek drastic measures to be noticed by this government. Unfortunately though, the government only see this event as another opportunity to play the ‘Russia is our enemy game’.

    ‘Damned’ World Cup giving the British the opportunity to see some of the realities of Russia and the Russians.




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  6. Edwige says

    From Hansard 5/7/18:

    Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)
    The St Petersburg troll factories and the RT propaganda channel are already gearing up to spread misinformation. Could we not at least do a little bit more to expose this? In particular, would Members of all parties in this House not appear on Putin’s propaganda television channel?

    Sajid Javid
    The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise this issue. There have been far too many incidents when Members have sadly supported the Russia propaganda regime, and RT is one way in which they have done so. If any Member has an ounce of common sense, they will realise—especially after this second incident—that the British public will not support any of them if they support President Putin.

    One small piece of the jigsaw right there. Nobody even bats an eyelid now that a member of the executive thinks he can tell MPs who they can and can’t talk to.




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    • jantje says

      would you also suggest to withdraw the england squad from russia edwige?or would that be unsportsman like?




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    • Gordon Harman says

      Our government are either :

      #1 So brain washed they don,t know what day it is.

      #2 Been threatened with loosing their job or their life or ridiculed in some way and are spineless.

      #3 Embarrassingly stupid and have no idea how clued up and intelligent the people of Britain or the world for that matter are to see through this anti Russian fiasco.

      #4 Hoping to push the people into a condition of revolt and bring on some kind of marshal law like the fascist Nazis did.

      I have never been convinced from day one of the Skripal poisoning that this was either highly a toxic nerve agent or administered by the Russian government or indeed Mr Putin.

      Why do the BBC keep calling him a Russian spy he was an MI5 British spy working for UK intelligence NOT Russia.

      The UK government are embarrassing the people of Britain in front of the wold stage and attempting to brain wash us all with the use of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) via the BBC and all other major British propaganda news media and the joke is : WE AIN’T BUYING IT!




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      • Well said!
        In answer to your four speculations on the government, I would think all four are true to a greater or lesser degree.




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      • Well said indeed.

        The assumption that we’re all so punchdrunk that we’ll believe this shit is starting to get me really fucking angry!

        Incidentally, if Russia beat Croatia tonight, we’ll have an England v Russia semi-final in the World Cup. The mind boggles as to how the British state will spin that one!




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      • Jim Scott says

        Gordon you are making the mistake of thinking that the parliament is representing the people. That kind of thinking went out years ago. Now the electors are just a bloody nuisance who have to have the wool pulled over their eyes at election time but at other times are dispensable. Its not just the UK Government as the Australian government has franchised out policy making to the USA and they privatise the task by giving it to their corporations. Australia like the UK is a perfect place to raise sheep.




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        • Mulga Mumblebrain says

          Sheep generally have more intelligence and self-respect than Austrayans.




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  7. JudyJ says

    Thanks, OffGuardian admin, for making me chuckle! I see on your Twitter account you have drawn attention to the fact that even the Grauniad has relegated the Amesbury story below a story about a possum being rescued after getting his head stuck in a Nutella jar. Grauniad has got it right for once.




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    • Ha ha! That sad possum HMG has got its head stuck in one helluva Nutella jar with this recurring Novichok nonsense.




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      • John Marks says

        If you examine the Nutella jar, I’m sure you’ll find it was highly likely that it was made in Russia.




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    • Jim Scott says

      I think something has alerted the Guardian hierarchy that their old readers are deserting them as faster than they can pick up right wing support in the USA. I was astounded to see the article titled “If the novichok was planted by Russia, wheres the evidence? This was written by Simon Jenkins. Could it be there is a stirring of panic by the editors or has Jenkins got sick of being exposed.
      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/05/novichok-wiltshire-poisoning-russia-putin-world-cup




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      • grandstand says

        Is this the same Simon Jenkins who wrote in the Daily Mail back in March:

        “Assad’s use of chlorine against civilians at the weekend in rebel-held Douma — assuming it was him — was against international law. …. sarin and ricin are beyond the pale.”

        Didn’t seem to need much evidence then, did he?

        Or the same Simon Jenkins who wrote this piece of gibberish in the Guardian in May:

        ‘Putin is riddled with what Freud called “the narcissism of small differences”.’

        Too little, too late Simon!




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      • PeaceCora says

        I think that I saw the ultimate in betrayal just the other day; an opinon piece in The Guardian by no other than Paul Dacre. I was so disgusted, I closed the window down.




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    • John Nicholas says

      It was not just any Nutella jar it was one that Boris confirmed was traceable to a source in Russia and MI6 have information that it was exported to Britain by Vladimir Putin himself.




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      • rtj1211 says

        Why would the Germans manufacture Nutella in Russia for export to UK? Isn’t Poland more sensible??




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        • Jim Scott says

          What has sensible got to do with anything propagated by the Tory Government.




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  8. mikael says

    Yeah, here we go again, the shitpal saga continues with new and surpising side tracks, if anything of this nonsenseical drvel is actuall, and what the MSM can do of an spin offs, headlines, buddyboy, is what they feed us with, short lines and that to create fale narratives, as an chemical weapon attack by an weapon grade nerve toxic comp. so bad if makes Sarin to an sweetner, and have an causality rate close to an nightmare, that is what they claim, and then have that, and their bonkers time lne and what and whom have crossed their paths in that same time line and again whom is been the “sick” and not, witch in this case is equally important, etc.

    And again narratives, sweet good old fasion flat out lies, so lame, that the only thing I can think of is how the f… could anybody be so ignorant and above all clueless, about virtually everything, incl CW. and now serves an flow on sniveling drivel, an mass.
    Jesus.
    What the f… is similare, or whatever verbal barr exserise this morons can muster, I stil wounder what do they mean with similare, like the facts, as if to use an analogy, that of what do I ( human) have incomon with an Tyranusarus Rex, we both have two feets, arms, eats and shits, occationaly f….. a bit, similare, or closer, like little green men.
    huh
    Organic comp, is either or not, nothing inbetween or iits not at all what what they claim it to be, as they just talk pety bullshit in fact on every level, like we are drooling idiots.

    I gues they drank to much Methadon ( an horce trancualizer, and that isnt an joke) , dirty maybe or something similare, hehe ( ohhh, spank me) , and snapped, foaming, yeah, says nothing, other then foaming, been ill, yeah, of something but to talk about another case of Nuevoshit is so stupid it hurts, any way or in any from, its all bullshit, period, not even worthy to disqus, when the premisses are pure bolognia, aka crapp up in mente.

    Lord knows what snapped in the British Gov. this days, I am in awe, the stupity and idiot propaganda, is unpressedented in British history, and I can only shake may head is discuss, of an Gov. so out of tutch of reality, and an MSM going down in flames.
    What an nice day, the cynical in me is as an child in cristmass times, laughing His ass off, and thanks God for showing us all, the truth, yeah, they are trully gone bonkers, the full moubty into lalaland.
    Thanks, honest, cross my hart, etc.

    peace

    PS: to some people, to witch this is brand new, and read it all, its about the winter war and why we had an winter war.
    I dont hold anything based upon what some peoples grand parents did, I dont, but what I do want, is the truth to come out. This Finns, is what we all fight, and right now we all bleed, its the same force, now as then, Finns and Europa.
    Never again Finns, rise and shine.
    http://www.genealogia.fi/emi/art/article399e.htm#Alku
    Headline: Is Finnland worth saving.




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    • Gordon Harman says

      Amesbury poisoning: Russia ‘must explain nerve agent incident’

      I do not believe the incident reported by the government controlled media implicating Russia using Novichock is in any way more feasible than what I suggest is an accidental overdose by two known Heroin users and being used to bolster the governments previous fake farce of a Russian chemical weapons attack on Britain.

      WAKE UP PEOPLE

      Novichok vs Fentanyl

      Heroin users

      Wiltshire Police

      Home News
      Wiltshire Police and partners have this evening declared a major incident after it is suspected that two people might have been exposed to an unknown substance in Amesbury.

      Emergency services were called to an address in Muggleton Road, Amesbury on Saturday evening (June 30) after a man and woman, both in their 40s, were found unconscious in a property.

      They are both currently receiving treatment for suspected exposure to an unknown substance at Salisbury District Hospital. They are both in a critical condition.

      It was initially believed that the two patients fell ill after using possibly heroin or crack cocaine from a contaminated batch of drugs. However, further testing is now ongoing to establish the substance which led to these patients becoming ill and we are keeping an open mind as to the circumstances surrounding this incident.

      At this stage it is not yet clear if a crime has been committed. A police investigation has been established. In addition, a full multi-agency response has been co-ordinated.

      A Public Health England (PHE) spokesman said: “The current advice from PHE England, based upon the number of casualties affected, is that it is not believed that there is a significant health risk to the wider public. This will be continually assessed as further information becomes known”.

      Heroin users and Fentanyl

      Fentanyl Is Causing Almost Half of All Overdose Deaths, Research Shows
      “These are not folks that are going to the liquor store and deciding if they want a Pinot Noir or IPA,” Ray told The Indianapolis Star. “They are addicted to drugs, and they’re not picky in the drugs they use.”

      Fentanyl is a highly addictive synthetic opioid that the Centre for Disease Control says is 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine. The CDC also notes that fentanyl is often mixed with or sold as heroin.

      One major complication in tracking and identifying the cause of a drug-related overdoses is determining which illicit substances are laced with which other substances, intentionally or unintentionally. Some overdoses happen because a non-opioid, such as cocaine, is laced with much stronger substances such as Fentanyl. And many addicts, gripped by a need for a quick fix, will take whatever they can get.




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    • JudyJ says

      And he doesn’t exactly uphold the line that his brother is “critically ill”.




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    • I get the impression that the brother is rather enjoying his 5 minutes of fame, and wants more of it.

      “I’m not sure how he got involved with that lot” was his straightforward, idiomatic reply to the interviewer wondering how his brother ended up being part of the same investigation as the Skripal event.

      Anyway he goes on to say he hasn’t spoken to him yet and he’ll let the interviewer know when he has. I hope the interviewer follows up on this (though given the media’s total disinterest in proper investigation the omens aren’t good).




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      • Paul X says

        By ‘that lot’ he surely meant the druggies and Homeless, not international intelligence agencies? The development does improve the credibility of the original story BUT that makes it likely it was deliberately done for that very purpose.




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        • I agree. I think in fact by “that lot” he just means “the whole Salisbury caboodle”, no necessary implication of his brother hanging out with spooks, etc.




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  9. Francis Lee says

    Behold, a new political innovation: A false flag incident on a false flag incident. A false flag squared.




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  10. Estaugh says

    Why dress up in hazmat suits when ‘baby wipes’ are all that is recommended for civvies? No need even to wear gloves.




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    • rtj1211 says

      There was a budgetary audit upcoming and all that money spent on HazMat suits needed to be justified by using the damn stuff in the field.




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  11. While the punters were laughing till they cried over the latest Whitehall farce, the real world where useful things are made and sold has been moving to stage Germany’s 20th century economic revival in 21st century China. Pepe Escobar of Asia Times:

    “It’s always crucial to stress that it was Germany that actually supplied the blueprint for Made in China 2025 via its Industry 4.0 strategy.

    Made in China 2025 targets 10 techno-strategic fields: information technology, including 5G networks and cybersecurity; robotics; aerospace; ocean engineering; high-speed railways; new-energy vehicles; power equipment; agricultural machinery; new materials; and biomedicine.

    For Made in China 2025 to bear fruit, Beijing has already invested in five national manufacturing innovation centers and 48 provincial centers, aiming at 40 national centers by 2025. And by 2030, via a parallel strategy, China should also be established as a leader in artificial intelligence (AI).

    President Xi Jinping’s Chinese Dream mantra, also billed as “the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation”, is strictly linked not only to Made in China 2025, internally, but also, externally, to the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), the organizing concept of Chinese foreign policy for the foreseeable future. And both Made in China 2025 and BRI are absolutely non-negotiable.

    In sharp contrast, there’s no evidence a Made in USA [or in UK] 2025 is on the cards. The White House [and Downing Street — if St.Theresa could only take her mind off amateur theatricals] would rather frame the whole process [of 21st century technology] as a battle against China’s “economic aggression”.

    [Vexarb is disappointed to see no Ecological Engineering on China’s List for 2025. Surely, as Global Warming kicks in, Ecotech will become the most vital technology for the 21st century. And surely Britain needs cooperation with China and Russia on this issue more than it needs the sort of comic confrontational antics that are bringing down the House in Westminster].




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    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      China has long had high-level committees investigating how to create an ‘Ecological Civilization’ and working with non-Chinese individuals and groups to that end. US policies to deny China US high-tech equipment will only hasten China’s own development of these technologies. The next US step will surely be to attempt to threaten or intimidate non-Chinese from co-operating with China in scientific/technological research. Already, in this sewer called Austfailure, the racist thugs of the US-ordered hate campaign against China are demanding that universities cease engaging in research with the Chinese because-well, basically because they are Evil Yellow Devils, completely untrustworthy and treacherous, so unlike our dear ‘American Mates’.




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    • Investing in science and business is so 1950s and socialist. A modern democracy would cut finance regulations and reduce taxation, Simples.




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    • rtj1211 says

      I am afraid petty and juvenile regional- and subregional bunfights in the Noughties did for any thought of a National Strategy. Keeping Liverpool down at heel was far more important to London than national strategy.




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  12. Paolo says

    And the place where such chemicals are stored/developed is just a few miles down the road. Must be the Russians !! (LOL). When did Britain become such a sad and pathetic island?




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  13. mog says

    Q5. What on Earth is going on?

    -I suggest some psychological version of Winston’s torture in 1984:




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  14. These two individuals may have been involved in the attack/stumbled across some evidence. Cleaning up the loose ends with another Novichok attack that they proceed to perish from, win-win.




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  15. No one believes this Novichok reprise.

    They never believed the Skripal story “Sunday Afternoon at Zizzi’s”. “The Millers Tale” is what has been deleted by the Gov issuing a “D” notice. Obviously a dumb or dumbing-down notice! But this time the use of probable Special Branch ghosts or plants to try to revive the public panic – is nothing short of despicable. If a member of the public did this they would definitely end up in jail!

    No one is buying this. Not even Hackneyed old Jenkins at the Guardian who today appears to understand EVENTUALLY – that the Government’s credibility is finally f*cked… Although fails to say that.

    And now for something completely different…

    I’ve found a nice little video of interviews filmed with fans from different counties and their opinions about Russia – and as hosts of the world cup. It’s actually a promo for Russian’s learning English but the voxpops are filmed live and it’s a real treat. It starts in Russian, but most of it is in English.

    If you can’t be bothered watching the whole thing, which I recommend, look at 7 mins in and listen to comments some British supporters make.

    You will then realise why even Jenkins at the Graun has grudgingly changed his tune.

    NO ONE BELIEVES THIS LYING BRITISH GOVERNMENT!

    https://youtu.be/yxSgI64ietc

    Not only might football be coming home, but some of the TRUTH definitely is.




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    • I wonder how long Jenkins will last… They don’t like Russian infiltrators at the Graun… lol.
      I could hardly believe my eyes as I read his piece yesterday.




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      • Mulga Mumblebrain says

        The Fraudian is much more the home these days of deranged Imperial feminazis like the almost unbelievably odious Nonentity Nougatbrain, who takes Putin-hate to hysterical depths.




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  16. Motive464 says

    Aaaand AGAIN: alleging exposure to “ten times more powerful than VX ” novichok that fails to kill its victims instantly.

    Also – If I’ve read correctly about the effects of nerve agents they are instantly, totally and quite dramatically different from a would-be fentanyl overdose. It should not even be remotely possible to confuse the two.




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    • It has been admitted weeks ago in a letter to The Times by the head of Salisbury hospital dealing with the Skripals that no nerve agent was involved and so no “Novichok” which word is still being constantly used by the biased British media. For the British to say they are waiting on the Russians to tell them what happened is as daft as it is insulting.




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      • Jo says

        What the heck ever happened to Dr Steven Black one wonders…….




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  17. jantje says

    I’m SURE the russian state is bent on poisoning a couple of junkies ,by the way it’s funny that the Scripals were initially also treated for a suspected drug case,any info on sergei and julia dabbling in drug use?




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    • JudyJ says

      I facetiously declared earlier on that I was beyond the point of theorising about what’s going on! But I’m afraid I just can’t help myself! To tie the symptoms and the two cases together does suggest to me a rogue batch of drugs laced with a commercially available organophosphorus product. Let’s face it, as is common practice, many street drug dealers/suppliers are more than ready to mix in any cheap, available white powder to ‘pad out’ the fixes they sell.




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  18. Antonyl says

    Occam’s razor indicates that these two are the ones who put some “substance” on the Skripal house door nob.
    As they are not Russians this age old English test is going out of the window for the occasion.




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    • Jen says

      I’ll repeat what I said over at Mark Chapman’s Kremlin Stooge blog with regard to a possible connection between Rowley and Sturgeon on one hand and the Skripals on the other:

      There has been speculation that Charles Rowley and Dawn Sturgess were the couple walking in The Maltings shopping mall area caught on CCTV camera about 15 minutes before the Skripals were discovered in their dishevelled state on the park bench. Sturgess was reportedly carrying a red carry-bag. A red carry-bag was found at the collapsed Julia Skripal’s feet. The carry-bag then vanished into police custody.

      In his 6-part series on the Skripal poisoning saga, Rob Slane over at The Blogmire has speculated that the red carry-bag could be key as to how the Skripals and DS Nick Bailey were poisoned. Julia Skripal may have looked into the bag first and got a full whiff of toxin in her face (which may explain why she had to be airlifted to hospital while Sergei Skripal was transported by ambulance). Bailey may have looked into the bag at the police station later on. This would also explain the long lapse in time between the Skripals’ poisoning and Bailey’s poisoning.

      What else could have been in the red carry-bag … cash, and loads of it, and for what reason?




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      • Well said.! At the time it did look like this may bring quite a few elite down but that was not to be… instead low level operatives, living in trailers and parks, and doing the job for their masters were rounded up to show ‘something was being done’ – the truth of the matter is what the Podesta leaks brought to attention was so ‘unbelievable’ for ‘normal’ people’ that they were bound to discard it outright as a stupid conspiracy theory… more so because of the element of Ritual Sexual Abuse involved although so widespread – no one wants to believe the phenomenon even exists… people who cannot be convinced of widespread pedophilia will not be able to stomach the phenomenon of RSA by any means…




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  19. Fair dinkum. says

    Incompetence, paranoia, deviousness and bent, are words that spring to mind.




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  20. Jo says

    An expert on bbc south news being interviewed suggested it was a fresh mix from the previous batch…..ie so it could be connected to that but someone is still out there putting it around….interesting.




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  21. What’s going on?
    The UK, having instigated the move to give the OPCW the power to blame, will now manipulate the organisation to blame Russia.




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    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      And a ‘chemical weapons attack’ in Syria must be a possibility.




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      • JudyJ says

        Just seen breaking news from Reuters that the OPCW have today issued their interim report on Douma and, much to my pleasant surprise, they have confirmed that there was NOTHING untoward in the samples they collected from the area. No doubt the ‘PTB’ and MSM will say this goes to show how effective the Russian and Syrian cleaning up operation was. Wonder how else the pro White Helmets and anti-Assad brigade might explain this.




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  22. JudyJ says

    Something puzzling me about the ‘investigation’ is that their friend, who called for the ambulance when his friend Charlie Rowley started behaving erratically, took the police all over Salisbury to places the couple were familiar with but there is no mention by him or anyone else that he himself was subjected to any precautionary checks in hospital, placed in isolation or his clothes incinerated. Rather irresponsible of the police, I would have thought? I myself have given up with my own theorising, preferring to limit my reaction to question 5 in the article: “What on earth is going on?”.




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    • JudyJ says

      …on second thoughts maybe they simply told him to give his clothes a good wash and wipe himself down with baby wipes! But seriously, when you think that, even before Novichok was identified as the ‘culprit’ in Salisbury, anyone who was in the surrounding area was taken to hospital etc.for checks and told to dispose of their clothes. The media appear to be up to their old tricks again: there are media reports stating that it is believed that the couple came into contact with a receptacle containing the novichok. But what they don’t make clear is that this is just a theory – no receptacle has been identified and no evidence backing up such an explanation.




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    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      What is happening is that a cabal of Evil, but incompetent, psychopaths, the May regime, are trying, belatedly, to destroy the stonking success of the Russia World Cup, and, so they hope, divert attention from their own insane stupidity and division re. Brexit.




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    • Jen says

      I’ve mentioned this at other blogs (Paul Robinson’s Irrussianality, Craig Murray’s blog, Mark Chapman’s Kremlin Stooge) and I’ll say it here:

      Charlie Rowley’s friend Sam Hobson may be an intelligence asset himself. As Bernhard at Moon of Alabama spotted, Hobson was arrested in 2011 for stealing a bus for joyriding. He was sentenced to 6 months in prison but served just 9 weeks. While he may have got out early for good behaviour, and no more, another possibility is that he could have been offered early release for “good behaviour” if he agreed to work for the authorities on a future project where he would be required to act as bait to trap someone or help mould a narrative. At the very least, we should not trust what Hobson says to the press, especially as he seems to be the only conduit to the stricken couple for the MSM.

      http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/8824704.Freed_joyrider_speaks_of_jail_experience/




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        • Katey the Grape says

          The D notice is on Pablo Miller, the MI6 agent who was the pal of Christopher Steele…..says Craig Murray. So you are not supposed to mention him because it is a threat to “National Security” They don’t want people making the connection. It would be hard to maintain that Hobson was any kind of threat by stealing a bus for joyriding




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          • Jen says

            Hobson will be no threat to anyone. He is needed to keep the narrative on the straight and narrow path. That is why all mainstream media outlets refer to him as a source of information either directly or indirectly.

            But who might have briefed him during that 4-day delay between Saturday when Rowley and Sturgess were stricken with poisoning and when the news finally became public?




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  23. Paul X says

    Q1 is Yes – and it is plausible that this was a discarded vial tempting to a curious drug addict. It therefore supports the view the Salisbury incident was carried out by foreign agents; if any Western intelligence service was involved they are unlikely to have carelessly dumped the residue?
    Q’s 2,3 and 5 are a bit silly but Q4 is a good question.
    Would they test him for Spice drugs and the like? Will they release the results?




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  24. Estaugh says

    Case; The Novachok that never was, Part two. An empty “parliament”, a safe pair of hands, stands and poses a rehearsed question to Sajit Twit, who promptly breaks into a rabid, evidence free rant blaming, blaming Russia and when are these knaves going to own up?, bla-bla-bla, etc, etc. Sus from the word Go. Can’t we just enjoy the foot without some loony conspiracy theorist gatecrashing the party with outrageous and baseless claims; genre judge, jury and executioner? It’s not enough You spent our tax-money on a fake enquiry and a fake ‘decontamination’, You appear now to want to double Your profits with a second round of the same bullsh*t. You are incapable of governing an orphanage without losing 700+ to sex traffickers. You harass and/or jail those that blow the whistle on official s misdeed, You are grinding the poor and the vulnerable into the dust, funding creepy terrorists orgs. on behalf of your corporate masters, selling of the assets of the nation to your various mates and generally pissing on the idiots that voted you into power. That’s me done, I’m back to enjoy the rest of the game. —- BTW. Just to remind You, You are NOT the Lawful government of this nation; You are but a Quisling cabal of imposters, UNLAWFULLY foisted on the peeps by a EUropean , Fourth Reichian, foreign potentate. I stand under the LAW of Art 61. Magna Carta, Whereby I am commanded by the Sovereign to cause you grief, albeit keeping the peace.




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    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      How did a Sontaran become a UK Cabinet Ministe?. The compradores from despised minorities are always the vilest of the vile, when they start working for the ruling class.




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      • Jen says

        I like that, Sajid the Sontaran.

        He’s a traitor working against his own people, in working with Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson who as everyone knows is controlled by Cronus the Rutan, cunningly disguised as the pet tarantula.




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    • Dave m says

      Beware of the showers, they’re not what they seem…




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  25. Harry Stotle says

    Britain’s bellicose attitude only make sense if they are being backed up by a bigger stronger country (otherwise its like a mouse roaring at a lion) …….. but which country, which highly armed Russiaphobic state could it be?




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  26. Francis Lee says

    ”What’s going on.” Well the World Cup is going on and Trump’s meeting with Putin is scheduled to go on. How to kill two birds with one stone in yet another a false flag set-up. I really couldn’t believe has patently transparent and amateurish this is.




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    • Patently transparent and amateurish is what it is.
      Due to in-breeding, those who claim to represent us are no longer as bright as they used to be.
      This phenomenon has brought every regime in human history to its knees, and it won’t stop now.




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  27. Rob Simley says

    I would think it obvious, that Russia had absolutely nothing to do with this alleged poisoning either! There is no reason to believe otherwise! No matter what you think of Putin, I can assure you that unlike the American presidents, he doesn’t waste his time deciding who will be eliminated in other nations (Obama used to go over his list of people to be assassinated every week)! There has to be a reason for such poisonings unless a rabid psychopath is wandering around London attempting to commit murder.




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    • My hunch is that the desired result here is simply for the general public to confuse together the two novichok stories and shrug the whole thing off as a 2018 redux of “the Russians are up to their old tricks again” scenario from 1950.
      It will probably work too.
      Frankly, the lack of critical faculties in the “general public” today make me inclined to think that a UK suddenly taken over by a robotic Pentagon ‘coup d’état’ next week wouldn’t even represent a wobble of 1.2 on the Richter Scale of political upheavals…
      People probaby wouldn’t even notice.




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      • jantje says

        I think that happened already a long time ago[after ww2]aircraft carrier one springs to mind




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        • milosevic says

          “Airstrip One”

          he was struggling to think his way backward into the dim period of his early childhood. It was extraordinarily difficult. Beyond the late fifties everything faded. When there were no external records that you could refer to, even the outline of your own life lost its sharpness. You remembered huge events which had quite probably not happened, you remembered the detail of incidents without being able to recapture their atmosphere, and there were long blank periods to which you could assign nothing. Everything had been different then. Even the names of countries, and their shapes on the map, had been different. Airstrip One, for instance, had not been so called in those days: it had been called England or Britain, though London, he felt fairly certain, had always been called London.

          — George Orwell, 1984




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      • Rhisiart Gwilym says

        George Galloway continues to assert that he hasn’t met a single person – not one – who believes the May regime’s* bs about the Skripals. Why would anyone believe this latest extension of the scam?

        Proper description of the ukstate’s government, if it’s de rigeur amongst the Brit mediawhores and pocket politicians to call the Syrian government ‘the Assad regime’. Especially since the current Syrian government was elected at least as democratically as the May regime, arguably more so.




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        • Rhisiart Gwilym says

          The comments process clipped off the asterisk that should have preceded the word ‘Proper’. Here it is: *.




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  28. Very good.

    And how are they going to move this poor couple (?) out of the way of embarrassing questions, if and when they do recover? Will an amazingly rejuvenated Dawn appear in a video, with or without a scar, asking for everyone to respect the couple’s privacy?




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      • Yarkob says

        I suspect these two unfortunates will be slightly more expendable than the Skripals were. If they survive this hideous Nerve agent attack (of a type made by Russia) then I’ll be a monkeys uncle.

        I hope I’m wrong.




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        • Harry Stotle says

          “If they survive this hideous Nerve agent attack (of a type made by Russia)” – surely that should read as a type made by the media?




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    • Mulga Mumblebrain says

      These two are plainly ‘expendables’. Their ‘tragic deaths’ would be grist to the hate propaganda mills. I don’t fancy their chances.




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      • milosevic says

        These two are plainly ‘expendables’.

        Indeed, that’s why they were selected. The Skripals were needed to initially establish the Russia Dunnit meme; having once accomplished that, any random (soon-to-be-)dead body can now be conscripted to serve as a prop in subsequent episodes of the Two Minutes Hate.




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        • Mulga Mumblebrain says

          One down-one to go. What next? A child or children, of course.




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    • Dave m says

      The Daily Mial will do their story for 100k. Nice earver that…




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  29. Coram Deo says

    What is going on?
    Everyone is raving about Russia as hosts of the world cup.
    Presidents Trump and Putin are about to have a tete-a-tete.
    We are about to be betrayed on Brexit.
    UK defence is a shambles.
    The NHS is falling apart and filled with those, rather successfully, ending life rather than upholding it.
    Islam in all its manifestations is protected by the Barcelona and Marakesh Declarations.
    Government, police, social services, banks – all corrupt and hiding child sexual abuse on a grand scale.
    Freedom of speech is being systematically removed.
    Freedom of religion is confined to one foreign idology.
    The press is silent and complicit.
    The EU is attempting to remove our access to and abilty to share info on the www.
    Tommy is locked up and they have thrown away the key – until we all comply.
    The military industrial complex needs WWIII
    NATO is sitting on Russia’s fence throwing rocks into their back garden
    The Conservative government of the UK is about to become toast – lies, deceit, treachery, treason…

    CORRUPTION IN THE PSNI AND JUDICIARY IN NI: MET POLICE WHISTLE BLOWER JON WEDGER INTERVIEWS IRISH POLICE WHISTLE BLOWER ANTHONY CARLIN (2/7/18)
    video – 58 minutes 2 seconds

    +
    http://justbelfast.com
    +
    http://www.freshstartfoundation.co.uk

    TIP OF THE ICEBERG! Did I miss anything?

    ‘Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
    For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.’ Psalm 37:1-2




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