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Jamal Khashoggi: or why you don’t trust the MSM even if they say what you want to hear

Catte

(Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)

The alleged murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi is a mass media rollout, every bit as sparsely verified and every bit as questionable as the official Skripal narrative, but this fact is being overlooked due to the cognitive dissonance involved in who is being blamed.

What we are seeing in the mainstream media at the moment is a narrative-shift worthy of Minitrue. We are currently being told the equivalent of “Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia”.  The Saudis in general, and  Muhammad bin Salman in particular, all previous “good guys” in the MSM pantheon, are being apparently re-branded as baddies with all the cartoonish excess normally reserved for Russia/Putin and Syria/Assad.

Sen. Lindsey Graham rewriting his “Assad must go” mantra with a new name.
American public officials, corporations and press pulling out of Saudi-related events in an attempt to “isolate” them.

We are being bombarded with what one commentator rightly described as Grand Guignol narratives of slaughter, dismemberment, torture, all based on the kind of flimsy claims and dodgy alleged technologies we are already more than familiar  with in a different context. Despite an almost total lack of hard evidence,  we are being told the missing Khashoggi is not just definitely deceased, but horribly murdered and definitely by the Saudis.

Some of the alt media are accepting these conclusions simply because the accused is recognised as a NATO ally, when they would be far more sceptical if it was one of the more usual patsies – Russia or Syria.

Two major points seem to be largely missed. They are:

The Saudis may be local tyrants but for the Empire they are merely puppets.  Like all such assets,  they are expendable.  They are tolerated.  They are flattered, feted, given the hero treatment by the compliant media –  while they are useful and obedient. The moment they cease to be either of these things they are slapped down, and if they don’t learn the lesson they go on to be dropped like a lizard tail, scapegoated, color-revolutioned and ultimately destroyed.

Remember when Saddam was the good guy in the ME because he was going up against the “evil” of Iran?

It’s not that long ago, a matter of weeks, that MPs were writing articles praising MBS in the the Huffington Post, or The Guardian was accepting ad revenue to praise Saudi Arabia’s great reformer.The empire knows no loyalty and has no interest in consistency.

The recent media blitz on MBS stemming from the alleged murder of Khashoggi, tells us he is currently out of favour. And this is all it tells us.  It may be meant to remind him and certainly should remind us of where the power really lies. It’s a signifier of his real place in the scheme of things, and how quickly he can be demonised and disposed of if the real powers that be should choose.

It is not an indicator on any level of his guilt or innocence of this alleged crime. Because the  second overlooked point is this:

The question of whether or not the Saudis and MBS really murdered Khashoggi is irrelevant to the message.

Not secondary, not incidental – entirely irrelevant.

We need to get this if we are to be able to understand anything about how the current western intelligentsia operates.

What matters to them is the narrative. The headline. The psychic impact. The saying is all. Khashoggi needs to be dead right now and so he is. Will he still be dead tomorrow? Who knows, but if not he won’t be the first such resurrection. Even death isn’t necessarily permanent in the new post-truth age.

Do we currently know the man is dead? Let alone who may have killed him? I don’t think we can make that claim. We have an allegedly vanished journalist. We have a number of unproven claims, of varying plausibility. None of this is evidence of anything.

Yes, the Saudis are blood-soaked and vile. Yes they are, or have been up to this time, allies of the empire, but that’s no reason to buy a bare and unconvincing mainstream narrative that just happens to implicate them We need to keep repeating the mantra. Khashoggi’s murder, whether ultimately real or not,  appeared in the media, not because it happened but because it was useful for someone to say that it had. If he had been murdered at some other time when such news served no purpose it would have been buried with his body, airbrushed away. It’s possible no one would ever have heard about it. Or it may have appeared in alt media, reported by some dedicated truth-seeking unpaid journalists who went out there to dig up some buried truths, and who would have been called “conspiracy theorists” for their pains.

We need to resist any temptation to give the mainstream the benefit of the doubt as soon as they appear to endorse some part of what we know is true. When they seem to have an epiphany and realise  the Saudis are bloodthirsty tyrants or that global warming is a thing, they aren’t seeing the light, they’re simply following the dictates of an agenda which currently finds these truths useful. The moment they stop being useful these truths will be dropped again, right down the Memory Hole. And it will be as if they never were.

When we preempt the arrival of any data and discuss the “murder of Khashoggi” as if it were a fact, and when we blame the Saudis unequivocally without anymore evidence for their guilt than we have for that of Boshirov and Petrov, we are actually unwittingly endorsing the media’s ability to invent realities.

What all this should teach us is the need to stop assuming even the most basic connection between “the news” and veridical reality. Because no such connection exists in the minds of those who control the media and those who work for it. We need to grasp that they no longer even consider fact-checking in any sense we would understand it. You can’t meaningfully fact-check a worldview that has escaped so far from all verifiable fact. All you can do is find endorsement in repetition.

We’ll know when/if the Saudis  step back behind whatever line they transgressed when the headlines stop telling us about Khashoggi’s brutal murder, when that meme simply vanishes, or when it’s transformed by weasel-words into something else. If the meme doesn’t vanish or transform we’ll know the Saudis are still on the naughty stool and may well be headed the way of Saddam.

But none of it will have anything much to do with what really happened to Jamal Khashoggi – whether he’s alive or dead, brutally murdered by the Saudis, brutally murdered by someone else, disappeared or hiding in someone’s basement.

OffG co-founding editor. Writer. Opinionated polemicist.

Filed under: featured, latest, Other Media

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OffG co-founding editor. Writer. Opinionated polemicist.

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witters
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witters

Well now. The Saudi’s now claim (which claim mean an admission – and i’d say that’s pretty persuasive evidence for the fact of the killing and its agents…) that the mild-mannered “journalist” attacked the 15 friendly guys who – unbeknown to MBS, of course! – were just there for a friendly chat about where one might want to live… So the pudgy guy attacked the 15 of them. Well, that clearly placed their lives at risk, and so in the best US policing fashion they had to do what they (now) had to do…

Catte’s scepticism int these circumstances, seems to me overstated, no?

Col
Reader
Col

Yes well – how is “Mrs Khashoggi” doing? After her future husband cut up with a bone saw.

Stonky
Reader
Stonky

Isn’t there a stupidity blog where you could go and post stupid stuff without pestering the rest of us? If not, you and Matt can go and create one. The point of Catte’s article is not “whether the Saudis killed Khashoggi”. It’s “Why this sudden wall-to-wall campaign of outrage against a despot who was previously untouchable?”

But then you knew that didn’t you? You didn’t? Then you’re genuinely as stupid as you pretend to be.

By the way, thanks to Matt for a great belly-laugh yesterday. To those who couldn’t be bothered clicking on his link, the NYT ‘explanation’ for the wall-to-wall media campaign of outrage was basically:

“Yeah but no but many deaths a statistic, one death a tragedy blah blah cod psychology 27 children in a school bus don’t much matter in the greater scheme of things BUT KHASHOGGI WAS SPECIAL BECAUSE HE WAS A JOURNALIST!”

I think the NYT has got it wrong. The outpouring outrage and grief wasn’t because Khashoggi was a journalist. It’s because he was in real estate. They’re even more popular than journalists. We should all be grateful that the guy wasn’t an ambulance-chasing lawyer. That would probably have been instant casus belli (apologies to homeslicez).

Matt
Reader
Matt

I burst out laughing while reading this article. The fallacy is so obvious that even a blind person can see it. Apparently, if the MSM criticizes a foreign government for literally chopping up a journalist working for an American newspaper, then that must mean that there is some sooper-secret plot afoot. Can’t be because, you know, this stuff is deplorable. Nope. As for the lack of outrage over Yemen, The New York Times wrote an article explaining why many have reacted to this murder so strongly. I suggest you read it before jumping to premature conclusions:

How One Journalist’s Death Provoked a Backlash That Thousands Dead in Yemen Did Not

Oh, and despite this dishonest article, Saudi Arabia just admit to killing the journalist:

Saudi Arabia claims Khashoggi was killed in a fight, contrary to other accounts

How embarrassing for the author.

What I love about this article is that it exposes how reverse-psychology works on conspiratorial minds. The author thinks that if the MSM criticizes someone, then that must magically mean they are following the wishes of the elite. This blanket assertion is obviously false.

I’m going to share this article with as many people as I can. It’s hilarious.

mark
Reader
mark

The MSM response is like the famous police captain, “I am shocked, shocked, to find that gambling is taking place in Rick’s bar.” Waiter: “Here are your winnings, sir.”

This is the same MSM that has been trousering Saudi money for years to run puff pieces on goons like Bin Salman and his ilk. Even when they do (very occasionally) report truthfully, nothing they say can be taken seriously. That is the point of the article.

Matt
Reader
Matt

I agree that some mainstream media outlets are being hypocritical and expression faux indignation. But not all of them. Numerous mainstream websites have been reporting on the reckless actions by MBS and criticizing them. Some have taken money from SA to paint MBS in a good light, but most have not.

I just think that Off-G casting the mainstream media’s criticism of Khashogi’s murder as having an ulterior motive is wrong. They have good reason to be shocked at the murder of one of their own.

mark
Reader
mark

Why? They are not in the least shocked when the Nazis they back in the Ukraine strut around in swastikas and SS regalia announcing their intention to “cleanse” the country of “Russian scum” and “Jewish scum.” They are not in the least shocked when the moderate cannibal jihadis they slobber over in Syria film themselves eating and mutilating dead bodies, beheading young children and putting women and children in cages to use as human shields. All the outrage seems to be highly selective and turned on and off like a tap. No doubt all this will be thrown down the Memory Hole as soon as it becomes convenient.

MLS
Reader
MLS

@Matt – Wow. Your psychotherapist should really take a look at this.

Talk about over-compensation/projection.

And problems with women.

And reading/comprehension issues.

This poor dude doesn’t even understand what the article is saying.

Paul
Reader
Paul

He certainly comes across as a sad guy but at the same time he’s very effective at wasting time and diverting discussion. Somebody is proud of him.

David Macilwain
Reader

Thanks Matt – your disendorsement only adds to the innate worth of Catte’s insightful analysis. I for one find it particularly useful as I share the scepticism triggered on the first day by the msm flood of interest in this “just another day in the life and times of the kingdom”.
PS, anyone hear what Adel al Jubair has to say on it? Where is he? the man who thought that Zahran Alloush would be a good leader of Syria, once Bashar’s body was cut up and relocated… And where is Turkey’s famous chief of intel Hakal Fidan? What’s the chance this a joint Saudi-CIA-Turkish conspiracy? We’ll have to wait and see what happens…

LizA
Reader
LizA

And I burst out laughing when I read your response. What rock have you been living under? You’ve totally missed the point of the article. The MSM is beholden to its owners and their political agendas. Both the MSM and its owners are beholden to advertisers and those willing to pay for content. If the public’s imagination has been caught by a suitably digestible little horror story then so be it – run with that. Oh and bring in some suitably – way too late – faux outrage about Yemen and Saudi’s human rights record to keep things righteous. The hypocrisy is unbelievable. But desperate attempts to remain ‘relevant’, the pressure to make money, and the need to keep the narrative politically ‘mainstream’ to construct/appeal to the biggest base means that we are encountering not only hypocrisy in the MSM but unbelievable cowardice.

So yes – I think your response is funny.

Occam
Reader
Occam

Occam’s razor: the theory that makes the least amount of assumptions is statistically speaking the most likely to be correct.

Here is one such theory:

Mohammed bin Salman was put on top in Saudi Arabia with the help of the US.
Mohammed bin Salman is a murderous psychopath that has left a trail of bloody murder in his wake on the way to power in Saudi Arabia. All of this is documented fact.

Now the theory: murderous psychopaths with unlimited power do things like what happened to Khashoggi.

(I’ve also read somewhere that his death might have been the result of an interrogation gone wrong, again fairly plausible I would say, considering Mohammed bin Salman’ track record.)

The US is now terribly embarrassed but no fear, Trump has already said he hopes the arms deals can continue as usual.

Saudi Arabia has now more or less admitted btw:
https://www.rt.com/news/441783-saudi-arabia-khashoggi-died-fight/

Matt
Reader
Matt

I fully agree with you. This article is a fallacious one because it assumes that the MSM criticizing Saudi Arabia for chopping up their own journalist’s body in a consulate means the MSM is following the wishes of some elite. Going by that logic, literally any event criticized by any mainstream media outlet can be “connected” back to the U.S.

It reminds me of the loonies who blame Russia for everything. It’s highly ironic that this website, which frequently peddles anti-American disinformation like this article and repeats every one of Russia’s lies uncritically, would do the same thing with the U.S. that they defend Russia against on a daily basis.

I also love the reference in the article to “Boshirov”. Now, even more photos of his partner in crime have been released, and multiple Russian media outlets have visited his hometown, with residents easily identifying the man in the interview as exactly what Bellingcat claimed, even openly admitting that he received the Hero of the Russian Federation award. But Off-G refuses to publish any of that, because it would prove them wrong. Being as dishonest as they are, they will now avoid addressing the new evidence and keep repeating the same ad hominem and fallacies about Bellingcat and the photos they released.

Frankly, this website has completely discredited itself. It’s been proven to have been wrong on nearly every major event, even one as plainly obvious as this one. Combine this with the reluctance of the authors to honestly address evidence that contradicts their viewpoints, and you have a perfect fake news outlet.

LadyDi
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LadyDi

@Matt My God what a shameless liar you are. I have gone back and read every one of OffG’s articles on the Skripals and on MH17.

You know what none of them do? Make claims without evidence. They source to facts, correct errors in the mainstream stories. They have never, not once that I can see ever claimed that Boshirov and the other guy are not Russian agents, they do the proper journalistic thing and wait for evidence. Real evidence you cow pat, not “oooh Bellingcrap just got handed another manilla envelope of anonymous bullshit”.

You have some nerve you really do. You either are so special you don’t get what evidence is and you think it’s whatever that pervert Higgins (he’s obsessed with people sucking his testicles) posts on his Atlantic Council-funded disinfo site, or you’re a disinfo agent in an anonymous cubicle being paid minimum wage to diss sites far better and smarter and braver than you can ever hope to be. Either way please get the fuck out of here. If I was OffG I’d ban you, but they likely won’t I guess. It is truly sickening how you exploit their tolerance to insult them. Your only possible excuse is you’re as spectrum dominated as you seem to be.

LizA
Reader
LizA

More uncontrolled laughter. You say:

“It’s been proven to have been wrong on nearly every major event, even one as plainly obvious as this one. Combine this with the reluctance of the authors to honestly address evidence that contradicts their viewpoints, and you have a perfect fake news outlet.”

I thought you were referring to the NYT or the BBC. It would actually make sense! And anyone who naively quotes Bellingcat is possibly the most gullible ‘useful idiot’ on the planet.

mark
Reader
mark

No, you have to believe all this because Bell End Higgins spoke to someone down the pub who knew somebody who said he knew Boshirov’s granny. Sounds pretty convincing to me. Anyone who thinks differently is obviously a Putin troll in the pay of the Kremlin.

Matt
Reader
Matt

I guess the entire Russian media are “useful idiots” then, considering they have verified Bellingcat’s claims. Whoops.

LizA
Reader
LizA

‘Whoops’??? You mean you slipped over on a very greasy generalisation?? Perhaps what you’re implying is that there is actually a free press in Russia, some of which is willing to play along while being as confused as everyone else by a UK/Bellingcat narrative that just doesn’t stack up.

Paul X
Reader
Paul X

If it’s true they took a bone saw with them then it’s hard to credit this was a fist fight gone wrong – but that’s likely to be the Ddfendant’s story, not necessarily the State’s. Predictably 18 are arrested and 5 sacked. Somebody might have to go down for a bit the real loser is the Crown Prince ironically possibly squeezed out of Absolute Power For Life by Western Liberal anger – totally faux as noted. The root of the difficulty goes back to the War within the Trump Administration and appears designed to rob him of an ally and begin to side line the son-in-law who is as cocky as Robert Kennedy was so far as Langley is concerned. And we know how that ended. Cockiness they detest.

mark
Reader
mark

I always take a bone saw with me when I go out just in case I need to dismember a body somewhere.
You never know, you could be set upon unexpectedly by some ruffian like an elderly journalist.

Paul X
Reader
Paul X

The argument gets credence with Sawyers jumping in today as if he was talking about Russians! Who needs evidence, he’s got to go. Maybe those Princes he imprisoned have got together a Big Bung revenge and are paying for the campaign? Most things in KSA need very big bribes.

MICHAEL LEIGH
Reader
MICHAEL LEIGH

I have just watched the whole of the EU leaders assembled, to publicly admonish Saudi Arabia for an unproven crime, a crime for which there is not a shred of evidence against the Saudi leaders and or their peoples ?

And this reminds me of how easy it was in medeval times for the witch-hunters to smear and destroy the innocent peoples ??

Mulga Mumblebrain
Reader
Mulga Mumblebrain

Do the Sordid Barbarian Mafia family appeal to your ‘moral values’?

djrichard
Reader
djrichard

If a murder happens and it can’t be used as a fodder for an elite narrative (regime change or regime-protecting-us-from-chaos) then did the murder really happen?

Tom
Reader

Much of what I have heard on the media points to Khashoggi being a spook. The two interviews with ‘friends’ that I have happened to hear have struck me as suspicious.

Paul X
Reader
Paul X

He was very senior in Saudi Intelligence for years and appears to have done a Skripal last year by going to live in the US and writing for CIA papers like the Washington Post. Instead of using a nerve agent that didn’t work (say the Brits) the Saudis took a bone saw with them. To be so open about it – surely they reckoned on myriad devices implanted by Agencies from across the World – suggests the idea was to make it obvious what had happened to discourage others from Turning?

Pohutukawa
Reader

As an ex MSM journalist who’s seen the light, I got to the place Catte urges us to go a while ago (I’ve called it in my own mind a place of ‘radical doubt’ about everything in the MSM). The problem is, where to go from here and how to engage with the world (if one wants to) because the very next place you wind up is asking yourself, um, soooo, why the hell am I even bothering to read this stuff or think about it when it’s almost certainly 100% bullshit. Then I moved into reading only books with a few long-form magazines occasionally. As a result, you become pretty alienated from everyone you since you can’t really talk about world affairs at all because there is ZERO common ground; it would take several days of intense seminars to get other people to understand where you’re coming from. You almost start to feel like you’re some kind of mad-person and that you’re definitely seen as a ‘conspiracy theorist’. Anyway, just saying, and interested in how other people who have gone through the X Stages of Enlightenment are dealing with those various stages. (Which I realise is a bit of a derail, but never mind.)

matty
Reader
matty

Know how you feel Pohutuawa…. after a while you will feel as though you are living on another planet. As for dealing with it…I tell you…its a struggle…a real struggle.. Conventional wisdom cannot help you… Good luck Hope you cope better than I am.. Some say…The truth will set you free. Not in my case tho… a glimpse of the truth has done my head in… cannot get over “what could have been” had we not been subjugated and abused by the descendants of Evil.

remorris
Reader
remorris

No ‘derail.’ Mine was 911. coming to grips with that mass-deception broke the mirror. And as we all know, you go through the mirror
you get cut by the glass.
Al Martin calls it the vortex of the way things are.

Sav
Reader
Sav

It’s become normalised that the West can go around the world murdering who they like and no one says a thing in western MSM about this. Which journalists also matter – not the ones NATO killed in Serbia. Or when they bombed Libyan TV. That’s all glossed over. They didn’t matter as they weren’t the right kind.

mark
Reader
mark

Uncle Sam killed a lot of Al Jazeera journalists as well before it morphed into part of the MSM. Funny how all the journalists who have been murdered by the Kiev Junta don’t matter.

Mulga Mumblebrain
Reader
Mulga Mumblebrain

Or the Murder Incorporated regime known as Israel, with its unmatched record of assassinations.

PSJ
Reader
PSJ

Any chance you could go an entire day without mentioning Israel in situations that don’t really call for it? No? OK, just a friendly inquiry.

Matt
Reader
Matt

They can’t. They like following me around and claiming I’m “hasbara”, “Ukronazi”, etc.

Websites like this one and RT appeal to those who’ve lost touch with reality.

Thomas Peterson
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Thomas Peterson

The point of the site is to speak to the same educated audience as The Guardian but not suck like the Guardian does.

Manda
Reader
Manda

“The recent media blitz on MBS stemming from the alleged murder of Khashoggi, tells us he is currently out of favour. And this is all it tells us.”

Couldn’t agree more. Good piece Catte.

CalDre
Reader
CalDre

The guy disappeared, no video of him leaving the consulate despite lots of cameras, Saudis can’t account for him, that’s a strong circumstantial case, probably enough even for a conviction in a criminal court. As to details, it’s all about what Turkish officials have said so far. You can believe them or not, but I haven’t seen anyone in the MSM accept it as truth.

Now, the author posits that it’s merely a frame=job due to a falling out. WHere’s the evidence of that? Ironically, there’s absolutely no evidence of a frame job, nor any reason given why the “Western intelligentsia” would turn on Saudi Arabia. I’ve heard it be claimed that this is about Saudis cozying up to Russia – agreeing on oil output limits (the high oil price Trump was complaining about, the S-400 purchases). But that is even greater speculation than the assumption that Kashoggi is dead.

By bigger point is: who cares if he’s dead. Saudis bombed a schoolbus of children and killed 50 of them a few months back, that was quickly forgotten, but the killing of this evil war criminal Khashoggi should concern anyone? World is much better off without him.

Admin
Moderator
Admin

What author posits it’s a “frame-job”? Catte absolutely DOES NOT posit that. Catte states emphatically that we don’t know what happened to Khashoggi. Please don’t put words in our authors’ mouths BTL.

Matt
Reader
Matt

We know exactly what happened to him, sheesh. Stop lying so blatantly.

CalDre
Reader
CalDre

By the way, if I were to speculate, my take on it is Kashoggi was a CIA agent (WaPo has close relations with CIA) and the CIA was working to overthrow MBS for whatever reason. Kashoggit was supposed to head the opposition to get a different successor to King Salman. MBS found out and that’s why they interrogated/killed him. And the CIA is pissed about that as they do not like anyone undermining their plans. Nobody cares about Kashoggi per se, he was a darkly evil SOB and the world is better off without him.

CalDre
Reader
CalDre

LOL, seriously? Author goes on and on about how MBS has fallen out of favor (with no proof, except that he’s suddenly being accused of something – a cart-horse thing) and how is innocence vel non matters not. Yet they are accusing him – well, not exactly, they are sort of accusing 15 guess and sort of implying MBS would have been the one ultimately in charge – of this crime, or alleged crime, or what-not.

So in general if someone is accusing another person of a crime, without caring whether or not the crime actually occurred, that’s generally accepted to be a frame job.

Frankly I don’t see how you can not come away with that implication.

My bigger question is, who cares about Kashoggi. Why his death or not matters. Saudis kill dissidents all the time, the consulate is their soil, nothing out of the ordinary here.

So if I am reading tea leaves, it may very well be that someone other than MBS ordered a hit, but they want to blame MBS, because for whatever reason, he has fallen out of favor. That’s the frame job – whether by the intelligence services, the Saud family, or the media.

To rule out that Kashoggi was killed, you’d have to assume he was alive, and that either he is hiding (to frame the Saudis), or the Turks are holding him (to frame the Saudis).

I.e., either he was killed, or it’s a frame job.

Hence, by positing he was not killed, one posits it was a frame job.

If there is a rational third explanation, please, do explain it.

Lea
Reader

One peculiar thing is the no one is asking the question of the motive. Why would MbS have ordered the assassination of Khashoggi? If I remember correctly, in all the detective books I read when I was a kid, the first thing that had to be determined by the detective was the motive. Maybe today, nobody reads detective novels any more, and everyone can get to conclusions thanks to some novel telepathic ability they developed while I was sleeping.

tonyopmoc
Reader

Lea,

This was Pepe Escobar’s analysis a few days ago

“EXCLUSIVE: BUTCHER/KILLER/REFORMER MBS AND HIS PAL JARED

One of my top House of Saud-related sources confirmed it – once again: Khashoggi was CIA – and no wonder the CIA WaPo is up in arms.

Quite a few CIA senior ops are also after MBS prime WhatsApp pal Jared.

The narrative is that Jared alerted MBS that Khashoggi was a danger.

Other CIA ops were already in uproar when MBS pulled his Ritz-Carlton jail stunt – accusing Jared of TREASON: giving away CIA files on dissidents in the royal family which were CIA agents. That led to their deaths or arrests or at least forking out billions.

This is the real game: civil war at the top. The Trump clan vs. the CIA. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.”

However, I think Catte’s analysis here is absolutely brilliant. We know Khashoggi is CIA, and I am personally convinced that the CIA fake – some stuff – . It sometimes is not necessary to carry out a real killing, in order to obtain the main objective, which is indeed to change the narrative. People can be made to disappear without killing them, especially if they are already “on the team”, and would prefer a quiet life with less risks under a new identity.

I believe very little of what I read in Newspapers, and I do not watch TV.

Tony

CalDre
Reader
CalDre

“People can be made to disappear without killing them” – yes but a Saudi consulate isn’t just any place. If Kashoggi had disappeared just anywhere we wouldn’t be having this conversation. He disappeared and there was a lot of suspicious activity and the Saudis have not provided any evidence that he left the consulate.

CIA is not a magician. Brutal killers, sure, magical, not a bit.

flaxgirl
Reader

If JK is in on the act, no signs of him leaving mean absolutely zilch, do they? Surely, there is simply no way to know the truth because we don’t know who’s in on it and who isn’t, who’s lying and who’s telling the truth (if indeed there is anyone at all in the last category).

The CIA, along with their collaborators, are absolute masters at propaganda. And to my mind, propaganda works like magic. It truly has magical properties. It can make people believe the most ridiculous, impossible things with the most ridiculous ease.

homeslicez
Reader

Thanks for this article. Self-skepticism is tough. Objectivity and consistency is tough. But that’s the measure of uh, “stalwartness”.

I’m personally not sure what the measure of “optimism” is. Both Sanders and AOC are now anti-BDS and such. And not that that’s my big issue. My issue is more warmongering. Which Sanders is also a new fan of apparently. AOC who knows. I’m left to hope amoral libertarians such as Rand Paul remain as just one voice against. Guess libertarian fans might take issue with that. Welcome to the club. Very, very, very, very narrow difference.

And again good article, but “Minitrue” and “Grand Guignol”. ? Just from someone not in your apparent sphere of easy knowledge, I have no clue what the fuck either of those things are. And again good article, but it’s personally annoying to have to almost immediately ignore some kind of word that is utterly meaningless in order to go on. Maybe if I include some Louisiana Cajun words, or Boston Lingo, you’d understand that it’s ridiculous to write a serious article meant for the global masses yet include native or local phrases which mean utterly nothing to anyone else?

Serious US people shouldn’t reference obscure US characters from US books. Nor other obscure shit. In order to not seem insular and/or pretentious.UK people also shouldn’t do similar, if they want to reach out to even a US audience; and/or even more so to a global audience.

Next time and next articles, please limit your pompous studious arcane Anglophile references. Or don’t, and like me almost, lose readers after the first bizarre “Minicure” or whatever that was. Not even an asterisk as of a poem to go down below and get the reference.

You’re not a professor, are you? So, since not, maybe just stick to plain language instead of abstruse clever smarty-pants references.

lysias
Reader
lysias

Instead of complaining, why not look up the phrses you don’t understand on line?

I’m an American, and had no trouble understanding “Minitrue” and “Grand Guignol”.

lysias
Reader
lysias

Instead of complaining, why not look up the phrses you don’t understand on line?

I’m an American, and had no trouble understanding “Minitrue” and “Grand Guignol”.

homeslicez
Reader

My point was that if the author intends to affect things and reach globally, she or he should not include obscure cultural references. Do you agree. Do you disagree. What is the point of this site. To self-validate? Okay, if so goodbye.

Admin
Moderator
Admin

This discussion is OT. Stop please.

Victor G.
Reader
Victor G.

Comment less, bro … read more, and more. Illiteracy is not a badge one ought to wear with such, uhm, “attitude” …

matty
Reader
matty

Good Point…I get the impression that a lot of people are no longer concerned when exposing their own ignorance. Back in my day… one avoided letting all and sundry know that one was not quite up to following the adults conversation.

rilme
Reader
rilme

And you’re not helping, Victor G.!
Why is that? Oh yes: dot, dot, dot.

Yo, homeslice! Try this:
https://yandex.com/search/?text=Grand%20Guignol&lr=10636

homeslicez
Reader

Uhm you’re illiterate in thousands of tongues. So am I. Reading more and more in the same language we already know isn’t going to solve that. Barely-English speakers might happen upon this article and then abandon it with “Truepine” right off the bat.

Read more utilitarianism, bro. Reaching out to struggling Sudanese and Mongolians isn’t all about your Charles Dickens’ references and Alexander Pope quotes, bro. Tone it down, is my recommendation, if the point is global humanitarian reach. If instead just a bubble of self-importance, sure. Go hog wild. Be only an Islander.

Makropulos
Reader
Makropulos

A language you don’t understand can be translated through the net. I’ve used this for passages in French, Russian, and even Latin. Non-English speakers can do the same in the opposite direction.

Thomas Peterson
Reader
Thomas Peterson

sounds like you’d prefer to be on another site where the writing style is more to your liking. if you don’t understand references, look them up, as Lysias suggests. that’s half the fun.

homeslicez
Reader

Half the fun for who? Who are you speaking for, exactly?

flaxgirl
Reader

You have got to be kidding. I see expressions and words I don’t know all the time. It takes all of two seconds to put them into Google. Regardless of whether you find it fun or not, it takes a moment. And sometimes I have to look them up again because I’ve forgotten their meaning. Another moment of my time … to learn something new.

Thomas Peterson
Reader
Thomas Peterson

if you don’t enjoy learning new things, then why come here?

Ultraviolet
Reader
Ultraviolet

Minitrue is not an obscure reference from an obscure book. It is the Ministry of Truth from 1984. I am surprised that anyone with a keen interest in global politics could be unaware of it.

“Grand Guignol” is perhaps a slightly less common phrase, but again not something I had to look up. This concept of bloodthirsty melodrama is pretty well-known, at least on the European side of the Atlantic. Maybe it never made it across to your side of the pond, but that fact does not justify insulting the author with accusations of “smarty-pants references”. Why not just be glad to have learned something new?

homeslicez
Reader

1984 is an obscure book to most, sorry.

And yes, sorry, and again (and again) it’s a good article. I just think it could be much better reaching without such insular references, to things 90% or more of humans have never read.

“anyone with a keen interest in global politics could be unaware of it”

Who in the hell is this article meant to reach? Intelligentsia? Anglophiles? Fuck that shit.

Thomas Peterson
Reader
Thomas Peterson

no it isn’t, it’s used as a school text here in the UK and probably in the USA as well

homeslicez
Reader

Not in any USA (school text) I’m aware of, or went through. And in any event…even if every single American and Brit read 1984, there’d still be about 95% of the other humans who might not have or get what the fuck references to it are.

I know perceived importance of Imperialist nations is outsized, but come on, even to the point of denying simple math? 1984 isn’t obscure to a billion Indians? To 2 billion Chinese? To a billion Africans?

And how many Chinese, Indian, and African novels do you know, in their original language?

Jesus fucking christ.

Thomas Peterson
Reader
Thomas Peterson

It is taught in American schools:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/teens-1984-george-orwell-trump_us_5892445ce4b070cf8b8060a7

Also was featured on the iconic 1984 Superbowl Apple Mac commercial:

Makropulos
Reader
Makropulos

1984 is one of the most referenced books across political blogs. And in any case, with access to the internet it’s very easy to pick up on references you don’t know e.g. those accumulating acronyms are quite easy to decipher with a bit of typing into search engines.

LadyDi
Reader
LadyDi

OMG. 1984 is an “obscure” book now? Read for God’s sake!

homeslicez
Reader

Obscure to the 7,000,000,000 non-British or American people. I typed “to most” for a reason.

And “90% or more of humans have never read”, typed for a reason. This shouldn’t have been difficult to understand for most English-language speakers. Sorry for overestimating you.

Please go back to your parsing studies, maybe in a few years you could read words and their meanings correctly. Even when it’s right there in your face.

Stonky
Reader
Stonky

Actually, 1984 is widely known and read in China. So you just lost 1.5 of your 7 billion people. 😉

Thomas Peterson
Reader
Thomas Peterson

well no, not really, 1984 is pretty widely known worldwide.

Admin
Moderator
Admin

Point taken. But – to all involved – the discussion is a bit OT so shall we leave it there?

John Marks
Reader
John Marks

Yeh, one Saudi journalist killed in Turkey – headline news all round the world for days on end.
Hundreds of women and children murder in cold blood – many while asleep – by ISIS and not a peep from anywhere on earth.
What’s going on?
Sure as anything mainstream media isn’t a source of news. More like mass psycho”therapy”.
Why are these powerhouses masquerading as news sources allowed such free rein?

Mulga Mumblebrain
Reader
Mulga Mumblebrain

Because Western presstitutes and their owners are Evil, lying, hypocritical psychopaths. Haven’t you noticed?

DunGroanin
Reader
DunGroanin

Of course it could be that Kashoggi had a late life damascene conversion. Found true love. Wanted to repent and live in truth. That the CIA tipped off the incompetent (they really are that mince) Saudis, who then got caught red handed, literally, by Erdogan, who in turn has used it to escape pressure to keep fighting the Syrians, Russians and whoever else the Nato thugs want him to.

Whatever – the best is that we may have seen peak Saudi ! And their FUKUS banker overlords.

Makropulos
Reader
Makropulos

“Why you don’t trust the MSM even if they say what you want to hear”?

I’d say you shouldn’t trust the MSM ESPECIALLY if they say what you want to hear.

Seamus Padraig
Reader
Seamus Padraig

These days, whenever the Langley Post tells me zig, I feel the uncontrollable urge to zag.

grape211
Reader

There is very little difference between JFK and sometime later JK

John
Reader
John

Very true

Frankly Speaking
Reader
Frankly Speaking

This article is spinning a bit of a yarn that no truth ever appears in the MSM. That’s patently nonsense, however, the article is spot on when it comes to MSM motivations and their control.

To understand what’s happening with this MSM story we need to remind ourselves as to what’s been going in Syria. The Saudis have funded, equipped and otherwise supported ISIS, Al-Nusra and the other headchopping “rebels”. The Israelis and US and UK have also played their part in Syria.

Turkey did too, but increasingly Erdogan is siding with the Russians and Iranians after the Russians gave him intel as to who was behind the attempted coup against him. That’s the key.

Turkey is no longer playing along to the US script. The Americans have royally fucked up with their plan. Erdogan is now working against them as much as he can get away with. He’s also making sure that the Saudis know that they finally want peace on their border with Syria, and they don’t want the Devil Incarnate of Riyadh’s head choppers risking their own security and people. They’ve decided that MBS is too dangerous and he needs to go, hence releasing the recordings of what happened to Khashoggi.

The MSM could not ignore this one, there’s too much revenue to made from the gory clickbait. But who ultimately controls most of our western media owners?

Enter the Israeli’s. They now see this is a great opportunity to show who is boss and bring down MBS because he was competing for attention and investment in “their” part of the world. They sanctioned their media controllers in the US and UK to dish out the dirt on MBS and they responded faithfully, as ever. This is the second key.

Turkey initially, follwed by Israel, are the keys to what’s going on. They have different motivations to bring down MBS, but this opportunity suits them both. The Israeli part is the explantion as to why even the likes of Lindsay Graham are now condeming MBS and announcing a regime change.

Sorry Catte, you’re way off the mark.

Admin
Moderator
Admin

If you think this article claims no truth ever appears in the MSM you have fundamentally failed to grasp its point. Maybe read it again?

Frankly Speaking
Reader
Frankly Speaking

No Catte, I fully and carefully read your article and I understand what you are saying. You are spinning your own narrative on this one. I like your work generally, but this one poor in my humble opinion.

Frankly Speaking
Reader
Frankly Speaking

Forgot to mention that the Saudis are also being punished by the US for buying Russian S-400s