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DISCUSS: the “Kerch Strait crisis”

Today, Sunday November 25, an incident happened in the Black Sea that threatens to seriously escalate the ongoing tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

Details are still unclear but it seems vessels of the Ukrainian navy were fired upon by Russian ships near the Kerch Strait and some Ukrainian service men were injured.

Russia says the Ukrainian vessels were behaving in a “dangerous” manner and ignoring “legal demands to stop” . Ukraine claims they were simply attacked without any provocation while attempting to legally navigate the Kerch Strait en route to Mariupol.

It appears the Ukraine government may use the incident to impose martial law.

NATO is responding predictably so far

At the time of writing nothing has been heard from the US on the matter.

We’ll update this as and when. Feel free to discuss, add information and links below.


  1. Updated end of November by the Saker. Everybody knows that: “History repeats itself, first as Tragedy, then as Farce. Historic Ukie provocation repeats itself first as Farce, then as Farce. Ukie Uber-Loser President “Porkie” Poroshenko negotiating with UK Strong-and-Stable Prime Minister “Saint” Theresa May for scriptwriter position in the next Anti-Russian Farce at Whitehall Theatre of the Absurd.


    • kevin morris says

      I tend to agree with you Vexarb. It was a provocation that went wrong. I supported Russia’s annexation of Crimea. It was a masterstroke but talk of it being the democratic will of Crimeans is disingenuous. I live in Yorkshire. There is a home rule for Yorkshire movement, but speaking realistically, had the citizens of Yorkshire voted to secede from the United Kingdom it is more than likely that HM government would have prevented such action.

      It is very difficult to avoid the cold war thinking in the situation. ‘Russia has taken sovereign Ukraine territory. In 1956, the USSR put down a rebellion in Hungary; in 1968, the Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia. The Baltic states are fearful that they will be next, as is Poland. We must stop an ascendant Russia’s attempt to regain states it vacated at the collapse of the Soviet Union’

      I know Vladimir Putin is much shrewder than that and I know the US has a long history of false flag situations as a justification for war, but Poroshenko and the Ukraine are in deep trouble. The provocation was ridiculous and the consequence, calling for marshall law was quite ludicrous too.

      The BBC may be trying to blame the whole situation on Russia, but the Russian control of of the Crimea is a fait accompli which sadly, the Ukraine, the US and NATO refuses to accept. Strictly legally speaking, the Ukraine feels it has a right to sail under the Kerch Straight bridge without begging the Russians for permission, because the Ukraine is theirs, but given the realpolitik of the situation, neither the US nor NATO wish to rush into another war in the Crimea. They feel obliged to show support to Poroshenko but that will be all they can do.

      Whether Poroshenko’s provocation helps him stay in power, I’m not sure, but the truth is that the Ukraine needs Russia far more than it does either the US or the EU.

      • Paul says

        The Yorkshire example only works if you add that there had been a Rightwing Coup in London a few weeks earlier organised by the CIA and MI6 that led to the Government demanding acceptance of the Coup and when Yorkshire refused starting firing ’s of unguided Grad missiles into Sheffield and Leeds, killing thousands of civilians.
        Just as you never read about Houthi rebels without the ‘Iranian backed’ rider you never hear of the American-EU Coup in Kiev get linked with ‘Russia’s illegal seizure of Crimea’. Within hours of the Kerch incident before anybody had a clue as to what really happened the West was full of claims Russia was about to invade East Europe. If East Europe ends up as a nuclear desert with Poland finally abolished for ever (as Russia and Germany would like) we know who will get the blame, Putin!
        The only comfort we have at the moment is that it probably is just a bid to increase military spending in both America and the UK. Our economies depend on it.
        Normally when a wobbly unpopular Government takes extreme authoritarian measures such as declaring Martial Law there is an outcry from the liberals; arbitrary detention, conscription, banning strikes and all protests while closing hostile press is thought of as ‘North Korean’. But not this time. The Guardian assures us that Martial Law has had ‘no effect; life goes on as normal’. Nor will you find one iota of opinion that Poroshenko, 5th in the Presedential race on 8% of the popular vote has crudely manufactured the situation for the personal reasons. How strange that the Western democracies laud this murdering criminal on 8% of the vote without hesitation. Poland in particular is taking a surprising risk in fermenting a serious war in the East against Russia; don’t they read their own history?
        The Syrian War, backed enthusiastically by Western Europe has resulted in mass immigration that those same countries are struggling with. Immigration from Ukraine across the Polish border now tops over a million a year. They are relatively easily absorbed into the economy of Western Europe but if there is war in the East an awful lot of Ukrainians and Poles will be heading West. And Russians if it goes badly for them.
        The West doesn’t believe Russia will fight if it comes to it. But the Crimea is a true Red Line for Putin. Quite rightly in my opinion.

        • kevin morris says

          I agree with you on the right wing coup in the Ukraine and I also fully supported Crimea’s demand to return to the Russian fold. However, I am sleptical of claims that Crimea becoming Russian once more had legality according to international law despite the vote. It strikes me that such claims are wishful thinking. However Russia’s takeover of the Crimea- a move they felt forced upon them by the Ukrainian coup-,was a masterstroke, all the more remarkable by the almost total lack of loss of life.

          That said, people have long memories. It is at least understandable why whatever their politics, the Ukraine would doubt the legality of Russian moves and that the Baltic states with their own substantial Russian minorities and Poland whose almost entire officer class was massacred by the NKVD on the orders of Stalin, would feel that Crimea is an example of Russian expansionism rather than an attempt by Russia to keep its chief Black Sea naval base for over a century.

  2. Excellent explanation by Mark Sleboda:

    Published on 26 Nov 2018

    The Duran’s Alex Christoforou and International Affairs and Security Analyst via Moscow, Mark Sleboda take a look at the real reason behind Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko’s Kerch Strait provocation, and how it has less to do with conflict towards Russia and more to do with self preservation, as Ukraine’s ‘8% approval rating’ President.

    • Published on 26 Nov 2018

      Ukraine has declared martial law following the detention of three Ukrainian vessels trespassing in Russian territorial waters off the coast of Crimea on Sunday. Russia immediately called an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to rule on the incident, RT’s Yulia Shapovalova reports. Then, former US diplomat Jim Jatras joins to discuss this latest flare-up of ongoing tensions in the region and the world’s reaction.

  3. Einstein says

    “The Ukraine” ( = ‘border’) is a totally invented country, by the Germans in the 1917 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk.
    In reality, there is a western part, Galicia (capital: Lvov), and an eastern part, Kiev (capital: Kiev) which were separate throughout history until 1939.
    Galicia remains neo-Nazi and pro-EU nationalist.
    Kiev remains pro-Russian but is currently held hostage by a CIA-imposed tyrant, ‘Porky’ Poroshenko.

    It would be best for all if the Ukraine were split along the 1939 border and the neo-Nazis can live in their bunker in Lvov while Kiev and the rest of the Ukraine return to Russia.

  4. Over on ze Guardian, Simon Jenkins claimed that Ukraine “elected a pro Western president” in 2014.

    The entire Nuland Ukranazi coup is down the Brutish memory hole.

    • Also the Jackanory analysis by Tisdall at the Graun is par for the course with the usual failure to focus on the actual problem – the failure of Poroshenko to implement the Minsk II agreement because the Praviy Sector/ Svaboda [the hard core fascists the Graun white-wash as far-right] would not allow it.

      That was proceeded by the USA’s blatant coup, orchestrated by Pyatt, Nuland and Brennan which lead to the fracturing of Ukrainian civil society and the ensuing civil war.

      So the Ukraine conflict is not an invasion by Russia nor is it a land grab in Crimea. It is the direct result of a US regime change plan subsequently backed by Europe and NATO which failed to maintain Ukrainian civil cohesion. Which no doubt, it was ever intended to do.


  5. John Gilberts says

    I’ll put this here because Trudeau’s Canada is a fervent fan of Ukraine and its Nazis are always welcome in Ottawa as part of JT and Galician-Canadian ultranationalist FM Chrystia Freeland’s ‘feminist foreign policy’. An excellent piece by Canadian dissident Yves Engler.

    The Neo-Nazis in Canada’s Military

    “…Over the past four years over 1,000 Canadian troops (a rotation of 200 every six months) have deployed to the Ukraine to train a force that includes the best-organized Neo-Nazis in the world. Far right militia members are part of the force fighting Russian-aligned groups in eastern Ukraine.

    Five months ago Canada’s military attache in Kiev, Colonel Brian Irwin, met privately with officers from the Azov battalion, who use the Nazi ‘Wolfangal’ symbol and praise officials who helped slaughter Jews during WWII. According to Azov, the Canadian officials concluded the June briefing by expressing ‘their hopes for further fruitful cooperation.’

    For their part, top politicians have spoken alongside and marched with members of Ukraine’s Right Sector, which said it was ‘defending the values of White Christian Europe against the loss of the Nation….”

    • mark says

      Another group use the crossed hand grenades symbol of the SS Dirlewanger Brigade.
      This was led by a man called Dirlewanger, an extremely violent and mentally deranged individual, who had served prison sentences before the war for rape and other crimes.
      He led a unit of like minded individuals in Russia who excelled themselves even by SS standards.
      They routinely rounded up large numbers of civilians and burnt them to death in barns.
      Their particular party piece was keeping a pack of rabid starving dogs, who were set upon victims to eat them alive.

      Nice people, these Ukies. Ideal CIA material, like ISIS.

  6. DunGroanin says

    Boom! Just like that the Ukraine is in lockdown, no better then North Korea or Myanmar for independent journalists.

    Putin and his generals have been careful not to be provoked into action by Russian casualties. Looks like they bought this false flag, rumours of bridge killing bombs, presence of UK forces… all aimed at … getting a rubber stamp on martial law!

    It is an obvious ‘whip lash’ scam incident – never mind if it has no logical response that means imposing martial law on your own citizens!

    “Ouch my neck hurts call an ambulance!”
    “But..but you weren’t even in the car..”

    Maybe Putin knew and is happy to let them start a winter campaign? ‘Get your coat off general’

    A soft coup. Militarization. Mass brainwashing, lack of free reporting or free movement of people and tourists.
    I reckon they could conscript a million easily. 12 months they would be ready to roll. Expect marching troops and flags everywhere and many nato advisors.

    For any time travel fans wanting to see a prewar Hitler mesmerised population about to sacrifice themselves as a proxy army for the benefit of the usual war profiteers and imperialists, to yet again subdue Russia – I say a cheap visit to Ukraine would be very informative.

    Weren’t they all celebrating the ‘never again’ war just a few days ago? All the while planning one more.

  7. [Stop me if you’ve heard this one]

    anti_republocrat BTL SyrPer #281002 quoting /MoA

    Update – Nov. 26, 6:00 utc

    The Russian coast guard detained the three Ukrainian ships and their crews in Russian waters. They again illegally attempted to cross from the Black Sea through the Kerch Strait into the Sea of Azov. The Ukrainian side says the two of its seaman were injured.

    Since Crimea voted to again become a part of Russia the Kerch Strait is Russian territorial water. Ships can pass the strait but are required to take on a pilot and to undergo inspections if the Russian coast guard demand such. The Ukrainian side understands that these are legal measures. In a report by the U.S. government outlet RFL/RE published in August the Ukrainian side admitted as much:

    [The Ukrainian Sea Guard and the squadron’s spokesman] Poliakov said that, while Russia’s actions are “provocative,” because of a controversial 2003 agreement on cooperation and shared use of the Sea of Azov and Kerch Strait, “everything Russia is doing here is technically legal.”

    The three Ukrainian ships tried to pass Russian waters without informing Russian authorities and without taking on pilots. Since Russia build the $3.7 billion Kerch bridge which connects Crimea with Russia, U.S. commentators and Ukrainian politicians threatened to blow up the bridge. The Russian are understandably carefully about any traffic near to it.

    Following yesterday’s incident the president of the Ukraine Pedro Poroshenko proposed to declare martial law. The parliament will have to decide on that. This is a very convenient move for Poroshenko as it will allow him to move the March 2019 general election date. Poroshenko trails in the polls with some 8% of the total vote.

    Russia called for a UN Security Council emergency meeting which will be held at today at 11:00am EST. The passage through the Kerch Strait is again open for civil vessels.

    The usual anti-Russian subject in “western” political circles use the incident to demand more measures against Russia. Fronting the effort is the weapon industry lobbying group Atlantic Council:

    Anders Åslund, a resident senior fellow in the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Center, said: “NATO and the United States should send in naval ships in the Sea of Azov to guarantee that it stays open to international shipping.”

    Such action, Åslund said, “would be in full compliance with the UN Law of the Sea Convention of 1982 and the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits of 1936.”

    Anders Aslund is listed as member of the “U.S. & Canadian Cluster” of the secret influence operation by the British Foreign Office describe here two days ago. He is obviously unable to read a map, sea chart, or UN convention. The Ukrainian attempt to pass through the Kerch Strait without Russian consent is a breach of Article 7, 19 and 21 of the UN Law of the Sea Convention (pdf):

    Article 7: “Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.”

    Article 19-1: “Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.”

    Article 21-4: “Foreign ships exercising the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea shall comply with all such [coastal state] laws and regulations and all generally accepted international regulations relating to the prevention of collisions at sea.”

    There will now be again a lot of noise in the media about the ‘nefarious Russians’ and new demands for even more useless sanctions. But the legal case is clear. It was the Ukrainian navy that willfully attempted to pass from the Black Sea into the Sea of Azov through Russian territorial waters without regard to the laws and regulations of the coastal state. Russia was within its full rights to prevent the passage and to seize the Ukrainian boats

    [I hope the Crimean Authority has a sense of humour as great as that of the Iranian reaction to U$ naval provocateurs: return them in nice new civvy suits with a bag of sweets for prezzy.]

    • mark says

      One of the heroic British sailors in the Iran incident said that the Iranians had “nicked his ipad” and he “cried himself to sleep” afterwards. Apparently, he looked like Mr. Bean/ Rowan Atkinson, who is very popular in Iran. One of the Iranians slapped him on the head and called him Mr. Bean. The army was playing the navy at rugby when this happened, and sang a song, “What shall we do with the captured sailors?” as a parody of “What shall we do with the drunken sailor?”
      “What shall we do with the captured sailors?……….”Put them on telly and watch them blubber……..”

  8. Kathy says

    This all seems to have a depressing inevitability to it and was only a matter of time. The scene has been set for some time now. The UK management are rubbing their hands together again. Lost pieces on the chess board swept aside and a new piece bought into play. War mongers of the highest degree.We live in hope that Russia,s levelheadedness out smarts them all and wouldn’t it be great if Trump refused to be pulled in and the warmongers of the US all got the sack. I only hope that this corrupt system fails and truth and peace will out. I do hope there are not as many people in the west who will buy into any of this any more.

    • jantje says

      there are an awful lot of people not buying this anymore,but it’s not the people that”matter’,namely the war profiteers et.all

  9. Einstein says

    The boy Williamson has ordered UK military units to support the neo-Nazis in Kiev against the Russians.
    This is complete madness.
    Effectively, the UK is declaring war on Russia with no debate in Parliament.

    • rtj1211 says

      Williamson is the apotheosis of a 21st century jumped-up piccaninny needing a noose round his neck for murdering to order.

      Who he thinks he represents is beyond me.

      He is worthy neither of legal due process nor basic human rights.

      Many think such things should be granted to the worst criminals of all.

      Williamson is the worst criminal type of all as he has never fought in battle, knows nothing of the misery of war, yet would condemn thousands to death for thirty pieces of silver.

      So I guess the robustness of our commitment to UK law is whether we would grant this murdering psychopath-by-proxy a trial by jury and whether he would be spared the noose by our adherence to legal due process in a British Court.

  10. Antonym says

    Note that the Black Sea Shipyard in Mykolaiv Ukraine was the place Russia built its biggest ships; now it is in the hands of Poroshenko & co.

  11. Francis Lee says

    It’s an odds on bet that the whole amateurish episode was carried out by the Poroshenko regime on orders from the US-NATO. The wretched hole-in-the-air Stoltenberg, has recently been in Kiev poking his nose into other peoples’ business and finalising the plans. Ukraine is now de facto member of NATO. The only thing missing is the Article 5 commitment. The Kerch bridge, the Crimea, are now in the front line for NATO’s planned war on Russia and there is no longer anywhere for Russia to retreat. Any attack on the Kerch bridge will be an attack on Russia itself. This means war. No question.

    Just think I have made out my will in advance, and it cost me £5000.00. Looks like I wasted my money. Gallows humour! Farewell cruel world!

    • Also usa knows Poro is a complete loser…Tymoshenko is too unpredictable.all this is about buying time….to replace Poro or increase his voter appeal…..try to find another sucker or train him up eg Turchonov by “successful” actions against Russia….increasing pressure sanctions making more provocations false flags …motivate Tatars terrorists and support them….increase capabilities of ukrops and get more arms supplies confirmed…….etc etc

  12. DunGroanin says

    The Azov being an enclosed sea, more a very large pond, is very shallow for most of its coastline, reaching a max depth of about 14m in the middle, so i read.
    It is not so saline as the Black Sea that it connects to via the strait. The main fish species are declining, the sturgeon and anchovy and the dolphins seems to be extinct. Like the dead Ural, agricultural and industrial use of river waters are to blame. The wetlands around are a nature reserve for many bird species, it does not need incinerating in a jolly jape of adventurism.

    As shallow water it can not really be useful for the bigger ships.

    The Russians have built two new bridges to the Crimea, the longest in Europe any boats going under must be a risk. Presumably this bypass of the land corridor via the Ukraine was strategic – it was built in record time and ahead of schedule!

    It does seem to be designed to be a flashpoint, an easy target for the Ukrainians, which would lead to an instant endng of Ukraine, as the Russian roll in.
    In fact the unstable geology of the sea bed may shorten the 100 year planned lifespan and give the ruskies a causus beli, their very own WTC, excuse to kick -off!

    Nato should be very careful about thinking of riding into such a muddy water valley of death.

    Meanwhile the Ukrainian people are being set up as the latest proxy army of the global robber barons for a monumental suicidal attack against their erstwhile soviet partners.

    The folly is high, the waters are low.

  13. Gezzah Potts says

    Even tho I try and avoid MSM like I’d avoid a dog with rabies, did watch ABC News just now on the Kerch Strait incident. Reported by the craven Empire mouthpiece cretin Philip Williams, it was a masterclass in Orwellian newspeak. The only two people who spoke were Poroshenko and some Ukrainian military officer, while Williams prattled on about Russian aggression, Russian provocations, and Russia annexing Crimea, and backing rebels in Ukraine. In summary, a full on pack of pro Empire, russophobic vomit masquerading as News. My TV is now off. Really good analysis of this at Moon Of Alabama site this morning.

  14. Henry Wilson says

    Macron & Merkel want to expand to the east nothing changes

  15. Gary Weglarz says

    What is most tragic about our current times is the fact that there is clearly no reason for the world to be facing the peril of global war that is ever closer to our doorstep. We could be living in peace and actually dealing with the many very real crises we face as a global family. The fact is simply that – there is no “Russian aggression,” nor threat of “Chinese domination,” nor “Venezuelan communism” nor “Iran as the global sponsor of terrorism,” nor any of the other non-stop nonsense and lies the Western oligarchs are using their media corporations for in order to parade endless lies before the now addled minds of their Western citizenry.

    What there is – is only a small group of uber-wealthy, very dangerous, very violent, psychopathic elites who would rather destroy the entire planet than lose their grip on the global hegemony they have enjoyed through the West controlling the entire planet for over 500 years now. Their wealth, and privilege, and power are all that matter to them. A half-a-million dead Iraqi children mean nothing to them. Illegal and immoral wars mean nothing to them. Dying children in Yemen mean nothing to them. Five of these people now have as much wealth as the bottom one-half of all human beings on planet earth – the every more desperate plight of half of humanity means nothing to them. In the past when such monsters fell or were brought crashing down by the population the rest of humanity had the chance to rebuild. Given the modern weapons systems at their disposal when these monsters fall rebuilding will likely not be in the cards for the rest of us. Stopping them in their truly mad quest for continued global domination at all costs is all that matters at this point.

  16. A direct provocation here by Ukraine and immediately announcing martial law.

    How this stacks up with the previous provocations and false flags blamed on Russia is pretty easy to see. Exactly why Ukraine would send small gun boats and an armed tug through to Mariupol is practically inexplicable. As inexplicable as flight MH17 being allowed by Ukraine air traffic control flight corridor clearance to fly where it did on a day where we are told the radar systems were down for maintenance…?

    Poroshenko’s presidency is nearing its Nadia so this looks more like desperation on the part of the Putch government in Kiev. 1.5 million Ukrainians have left for Russia and another million to other countries.

    The WMSM will no doubt have their scripts already delivered for this new deception. Exactly how the Neo-con Nazification project for Ukraine was supposed to pan out is now clear. Total chaos. Total disruption. Of course it is not possible to preach about sovereignty once you have backed an illegal constitutional coup in Ukraine which started this all. But this is exactly what the Western Political classes have been doing.

    • Willem says

      According to the Dutch media (nu.nl) there is nothing ‘alleged’ or ‘unclear’: Russia attacked and confiscated 3 Ukrainian ships, in a strait near ‘Annexed Crimea (by Russia).’ Clearly an act of agression from Russia, the paper implies.

      The only thing that is unclear for journalists who write for nu.nl, is how much martial law will be imposed by Poroshenko.

      Journalists never learn (from 911, WMD, Ghouta, Tonkin, the Maine), or just want war. First the war, than the facts. Why the rush?


  17. Thomas Turk says

    Very improtant Info appeared briefly on Russian media (before being scrubbed) that a NATO SADM, possibly a Diver deployable device, was being transported by Ukrainian and British Special Forces to the Kerch Straight to be used on the Crimean bridge. The device was being tracked by the Russians and they knew it had been loaded on to a Ukrainian Tug (escorted by 5 warships!! – 3 in the Black Sea, including one NATO vessel, and 2 waiting in the Sea of Azov).
    This is why the Russians acted!
    They never react with force and have never blockaded the Sea of Azov. Ground attack jets and Helicopter gunships, plus a warship armed with ASM and Torpedos were waiting.
    This level of force would not be used just for a tug and a few old Ukrainian ships. But a tug carrying a tactical nuclear device about to bring down one of the worlds most strategic bridges, a bridge hated by NATO – as per the recent Op Ed in the ‘Washington Examiner’ (Ukraine should bomb the Crimean Bridge).
    Ukraine regularly provokes Russia to little effect, but today the Rusians acted to stop a terrible event.
    Ukraine is now in panic mode and there may be direct NATO intervention if the to cover this, if the Russians make this public.
    The device may have come from the UK.
    The UK have been psychologically preparing thier people for a war with Russia.
    The SADM explosion would have brought down the bridge and melted the foundations, but looked like a conventional IED blast from above due to the underwater detonation and relatively low yeield of less than 1KT.
    This was a WW3 level provocation STOPPED by the Russian FSB and SF’s!
    All traces of these reports are being scrubbed as I write!
    Get this out before the story is completly scrubbed.
    I will not contact you again.” [by intel drop]

    • mark says

      This sounds plausible. The gunboats themselves couldn’t have done much damage. 54 ton patrol boats armed with 2 twin small calibre turrets, probably 23mm or 30mm. Would have hardly scratched the concrete. It wouldn’t have had to be nuclear though. Something like a Dambusters Barnes Wallis underwater explosion. Interesting to see if the Russians produce anything. It could have been carried fixed underneath one of the boats to have been released under the bridge as they went through. They may have dumped it to avoid it being captured. Maybe the Russians need to do a search of the sea bed nearby. American politicians talked of bombing the bridge “when there was nobody on it.”

  18. frank says

    Let’s repeat what I said here:

    Some WiLd SpEcUlAtIoN:

    1) Donald Trump is elected for a second term.
    2) False flag event along the Europe / Russia border.
    3) Donald Trump is shot dead in the US by a Russian patsy.
    4) US launches nukes or a ground war from Europe. Either way Russia retaliates with nukes against NATO.
    5) Profit!

    Also: US Switching to Ukraine as Location to Start World War III

    Looks like they are “testing the waters”.

      • frank says

        Thumbs down? Uhm… click the link?

        Didn’t expect the joke to work this well. 😉

    • PSJ says

      “Profit”? For whom? Who will survive the nuclear winter, the neutron activation of the water and food supplies, the longterm effects of persistent radioactive isotopes such as strontium 90 or caesium 137? I think anyone wealthy enough to hide in a fallout shelter to escape the initial blast might end up envying those who simply evaporated in the first micro seconds. I certainly wouldn’t want to live through the aftermath. If it comes to that make sure you go fast is the best advice.

      • Stonky says

        I think anyone wealthy enough to hide in a fallout shelter to escape the initial blast might end up envying those who simply evaporated in the first micro seconds…

        The problem is that you are applying logic and rational thinking. But the people you are talking about do not operate by logic and rational thinking. They are demented, greed-maddened sociopaths driven by an insatiable need for power. As long as they can emerge from their bunkers, survey the dead world they have created, rub their hands with glee and say to themselves “Well who cares – I won!” that will be enough for them.

      • frank says

        People are currently living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, proving that earth will not not necessarily be uninhabitable after nuclear war. I suppose it depends on how many bombs are dropped. It’s also easy to conflate these things with events like Chernobyl.

        How long was it unsafe to live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the atomic bombs were dropped?

        The Nuclear War You Didn’t Know About

        My point is that the so called idea of mutual destruction by way of nuclear holocaust might not actually be a deterrent as it’s not guaranteed to happen.

        • Paul says

          It’s a fair point when we know mini or battle field nukes are being deployed. It matters little to an American President or CIA Director about turning East Europe into a battlefield, polluted for years and deserted, when they spot a weakness or need to win an election they’ll grab it. Ukraine has good reason to fear the embrace of the US Hawks, it might turn out to be suffocating!

  19. Antonym says

    The Kerch strait is between Russia and Crimea, at its narrowest 1.9 miles wide, so Russian territorial waters. It makes the sea of Azov out of bounds for foreign navies. Ukraine should stick to Odesa or Mykolaiv with its war ships.

      • Yonatan says

        The Russian vessel does not ram the Ukrainian vessel. The Ukranian vessel breaks two rules of navigation at sea. They are: i) give way to vessels to your starboard and ii) smaller vessels give way to larger vessels. The smaller Ukrainian boat has a larger Russian ship to its starboard. It should have given way but didn’t. It pulled in front of the Russian vessel then slowed down. The Russian can see a collision is inevitable hence all the shouting. The Ukrainian tug captian deliberately engineered a collision.

        • Derek says

          Rubbish the Russian vessel turns to port to collide with the tug – are you blind or just making excuses comrade?

          Also i would love to hear a translation of whats going on other than 2no need for translations2

          • The last time I heard a Russian address another Russian here in Russia as “comrade” was over 25 years ago, and then it was said sarcastically.

            I am not Russian, “comrade”.

          • Comrade Derek, how do you explain the video starting with 3 ships (a grey Ukrainian boat straight ahead of a red-bowed Russian boat that has the camera, and both of them sailing at right angles to a white-topped vessel that is going to cross their path from our left); yet it ends with the Ukrainian vessel now sailing parallel to the white-topped vessel ie, not only still in front of the Russian vessel but now lying square across the Russian’s path?

            The first turn that I saw by the Russian was at 20sec, and it was a turn to our right ie, as though to pass on Ukrainian’s right. At this time, 20sec, both vessels were still sailing along the same straight line, with the Russian beginning to veer slightly to our right. So how come by 49sec the Ukrainian has moved even more to the right instead of stopping or giving way. It was at this point 49sec that the Russian made your reported sharp Left turn that rammed the Ukrainian — and a good thing too! The Ukrainian sailors later confessed to deliberate provocation under orders, as I have posted elsewhere on OffG.

          • David Eire says

            I agree – it does look like the Russian coast guard veered left towards the end.
            Not that that makes the Ukrainian actions any less a provocation.

        • Derek says

          And if you refuse to believe me here is the same incident from Vesti News.
          Please pay special attention to the translation;
          “left five degrees rudder, left ten degrees rudder, left full rudder! left full rudder! Go go go do it!”
          Russian vessel rammed it full stop and R.T pulled the wool over your eyes claiming no translation is necessary.

  20. This looks a lot like part of a broader campaign to me, and only loosely related to Poroshenko’s position. The fact that the new bridge across the straits opened, and then soon after an unprecedented school shooting took place in Kurch.. but we have yet again a ramping up of tensions over CW – more stuff on Novichok from the BBC-HQ, and a Chlorine missile attack on Aleppo by some terrorist group. Last week there was a meeting at the OPCW in the Hague, where Russia stood against a new and unconstitutional move that gave money to the OPCW to pursue “attribution” of CW attacks. Since Ghouta the West has complained about its impartiality, and refusal to say who was responsible, and now on the basis of the false claims about Syrian and Russian “use of Chem weapons” are trying to change the rules. How ironic then is it that only days later there is a chlorine attack obviously done by opposition – yet Russia gets criticised for bombing the area the missiles came from?

    As for the Kerch straits incident, or “provocation” as Russia says, Ukie navy vessels are not the same as merchant ships; there is absolutely no excuse for them to go in there, when there is land access to Mariupol through Kiev-held territory. Ergo provocatsia.

  21. mark says

    This is just the latest in a long line of provocations.
    Over the past week or two, different high level US political figures have threatened to bomb Russia and impose a naval blockade, whilst issuing further deranged threats against China, Iran, DPRK and Venezuela, including threats to cause mass starvation in Iran and DPRK. There have also been recent threats from US figures to destroy the newly built Kerch bridge.
    This is all part of a propaganda campaign of demonisation and vilification dating back to Putin’s 2007 Munich speech.
    The Georgian invasion of South Ossetia, orchestrated by the US and Israel, followed in 2008, and the Kiev Putsch and Ukraine War from 2104, characterised by false flags and hoaxes like Litvinenko, Skripal, MH17,Russiagate, and the Syrian gas attacks.
    This provided the pretext for economic warfare in the form of sanctions, manipulating the oil price with Saudi Arabia, and attacks on the rouble. These were confidently expected by Obama, McCain and Co. to destroy the Russian economy and incite the overthrow of Putin and his replacement by a Yeltsin-style puppet. McCain was actually surprised and outraged to learn that people in Russia still had electricity despite sanctions.
    This clearly didn’t work according to the power point presentation, and a series of provocations followed against Russian sport, media outlets, businessmen and ordinary Russians, and attacks on Russian diplomatic premises and the private homes of diplomats, together with long standing support for Islamic terrorists in Russia and attempts to meddle in elections using Fifth Column opposition groups.
    The restraint and maturity shown by Russia and the other countries in the face of these provocations, is invariably taken for weakness by western elites, who do not understand diplomacy, negotiations and compromise. They deal in the language of threats, demands, ultimatums, sanctions and bombings.
    Failure to respond more vigorously has probably been a serious blunder. The Neocons have just doubled down. At a minimum, Russia should have broken off diplomatic relations immediately after its diplomatic premises were attacked.
    Other steps could and should have been taken. Cut off the NATO Afghan supply route through Russia. End the joint space programme. Embargo the supply of rocket engines, nuclear fuel, rare earth and titanium to the US. Freeze all loan repayments to western banks. Put the money in a blocked Moscow account for the duration of sanctions. Expand the scope of sanctions against EU countries and Japan supporting US economic warfare to include cars, motorcycles, alcohol, tobacco, clothing, footwear, electrical goods, watches, jewellery, perfume and cosmetics. All these things can be produced domestically or sourced from countries like China, India, Iran, South America. Make these satellite countries pay a price for their subservience to Uncle Sam. Russia needs to be proactive and not just respond in kind. It needs to react in language the Neocons will understand.

  22. summitflyer says

    I have no illusions about this event with many lies being stated on the MSM .I almost threw up my food when I heard the news on CBC this evening during dinner .So typical MSM.You can bet your last dollar that the deep state had a hand in pushing the nazi banderists to do what they did. Russia could have annihilated those ships had it wanted too,the reason they didn’t is because the Ukie navy knew what was coming if they did not surrender .

  23. Martin Usher says

    These sorts of incidents are always couched in tit-for-tat terms when in reality its a consequence of one party deliberately provoking a reaction from another in order to stir up trouble. This bridge is strategically important to Russia so anything that approaches it, especially if its from a potentially hostile military, is going to be challenged. Its no different from what would happen in the US if you started messing around in a militarily sensitive area, you’ll have the Coastguard on your tail pretty quickly.

    This sort of incident is often staged as a diversion to draw attention from domestic problems. Its also not helpful that NATO would love to get its hands on the Crimea and its bases (despite it being pretty obvious that Russia’s never going to let that happen).

  24. Simples: attempt to cross the straight not following protocol and ignoring communications > bound to be stopped > pig-and-shit-face Potrosenko with 5% rating (whose attempt to meddle with the Church with his dirty hooves has so far faced a humiliating defeat) imposes marshall law > cancellation of upcoming elections > Russia portrayed as evil aggressor as usual > more sanctions > probability of military conflict increases > masters happy = elementary template.

        • «Я обращаюсь к руководству Российской Федерации с требованием немедленно освободить украинских военнослужащих, которые в нарушение международного права, грубо были задержаны и судьба которых неизвестна», — заявил Порошенко.

          “I appeal to the leadership of the Russian Federation with the demand that Ukrainian military personnel, who, in violation of international law, have been roughly detained and whose fate is unknown, be immediately released”, Poroshenko said.

          There’s that thing called “International Law” again, something that the Exceptional Nation and its satraps love so well to bandy about — whenever it suits them to do so.

          Of course, cutting off water and power supplies to civilians, not to mention the regular artillery bombardment of centres of civilian population, is quite alright.

          The elections are already in question, because martial law (it must be confirmed by the Rada today) is to be imposed for 2 months. This is very convenient for a head of state whose popularity is rock-bottom and whose chances of being elected for a second presidential term are as slim as are the chances of finding a virgin in a whorehouse.

          By the way, Poroshenko has demanded that the sailors be urgently transferred along with the ships to the Ukrainian side as a first step in de-escalating the situation in the Sea of ​​Azov. He stressed that he was waiting for an answer to his appeal….

          There is something that should give rise to Poroshenko becoming nervous: martial law automatically raises the Bloody Pastor and the head of the National Security and Defence Council to Number 2 position in the Kiev Junta. And in the case of any incapacity that Poroshenko should suffer — including death from an overdose — Turchinov then becomes head of the regime.

          And Turchinov, in my opinion, is as mad as a hatter; a bent Holy Joe — and there’s nothing worse than a bible thumping lunatic such as he is.


      • Requested declaration of marshal law to be confirmed by RADA today pm…about now….

  25. Paul says

    Nobody is jumping up to offer support as the whole world knows the Ukrainians are inveterate liars and in desperate straits financially and political. To become the spearhead of a Drive against Russia and be backed by Nato and America would be a dream come true for Kiev – which hopefully is well understood. The only country taking them seriously any more is the UK!

    • Paul says

      Poroshenko faces the Presidential election in 4 months and seems likely to lose. A decree of Martial Law, never imposed in 2014-5, suspends parliament and elections for the duration.

  26. Emily Durron says

    The West has been poking and goading Russia with a sharp stick for many years in order to provoke a war. This is because there are those in the Deep State (and even those front-of-house like Stoltenberg) that think that war with Russia is desirable and winnable. Taking down governments to poke Russia. Starting civil wars. Shooting down Russian planes in Syria (NATO’s Turkey were duped into that, then they went rogue on the West when they found out what the scam was), overthrowing the democratically elected government in Ukraine, surrounding Russia with missiles, breaking the pact that NATO would not encroach onto the old Warsaw Pact territories, and now this boat shit.

    It’s all out there for people to read but not where people can see it or read it. No MSM, because they are just government stooges. Fuck it, we are all doomed because in the age of the internet, where communication is more possible than ever, communication of real facts and truths is less and less possible.

    • Trauma2000 says

      I agree with almost all of what you say except… we’re all doomed. We’re never doomed. We’re never ‘done for.’
      Never give up. Never give in. Never buy the ZioMedia message. We you swallow the lie, you spit out truth. And without truth you’ve got nothing.

      Russia should respond. This may seem counter intuitive but think about. Most Ukrainians speak Russian. This isn’t a coincidence; they speak Russia because they ARE Russian.

      Now, when it comes to the crunch, most Ukrainians lost relatives, grandparents, friends etc in the Great Patriotic War (that Russia won on behalf of The West. The West only ‘changed sides’ when it became apparent that Russia was going to win, and then it was a mad dash for The West to try and claim some of Europe for ‘themselves’.

      How many Ukrainians will sit and swallow a ‘full scale war’ against Russia when their aunts and uncles and cousins are just across the non-existent line that is called ‘The Boarder’. How many Ukrainians will willingly go and fight against Russia when it is ZioNazi’s telling them to go and pick up a gun and try and kill their relatives.

      Ukraine is DEAD. There is nothing. Europe will be fighting over the scraps with Russia and starting a spin campaign about ‘Russian Aggression’ even whilst they take aim at Russians in Ukraine telling the world they are ‘defending them for freedom and democracy.’

      There will come a crunch time when the subservient nations in NATO do a ‘cost benefit analysis and see the writing on the wall.’

      NATO will fracture. Hopefully the U.K. turns to dust along with a large chunk of continental U.$.A. And, just hopefully, Russia has more S500 systems deployed than they are letting the world know about.

      • Well hopefully when the populus realises they are even more severely affected when martial law is declated….they might do something about it.

      • 0we'n'r0 says

        uSay “that Russia won on behalf of . . .”
        WHO®Ebbehind FFounding’n’FFunding industrialized §oviet
        0pponent FFirst

        2re:re:Create/\gain&aGain their FFalse d i a l e c t i c

        4profit/\ble&always ∯urther Domination of bb o t h


        _______ yuh. /\S* ∯un /\S* it is FFungible

        Xtremism ⅀\/⅀®Yʬhere/\yuk

        Yikes ! likeYats !! Put-in P0ʬ® /\S*jus/\joke..:

        **jj — nuland.Kagan [[aGain “BButcher of Ukraine”]]
        **jj — /\/\ogilavitch.poroshenko
        **jj — andropov.PutIN
        **jj — lenIN.stalIN[[JeorgiaJJ]]

        **jj — jje∯®ey§achs.§ummers [[HIID Haa\/id /\S*
        ʬell!!hell /\S* Cambridge Dons]]

        ℤ0₩ie. rem.rem rep.rep etc.etc inter/\liya & et al

      • 0we.n.r0 says

        uSay “that Russia won on behalf of . . .”
        WHO®Ebbehind FFounding’n’FFunding industrialized §oviet
        0pponent FFirst

        2re:re:Create/\gain&aGain their FFalse d i a l e c t i c

        4profit/\ble&always ∯urther Domination of bb o t h


        _______ yuh. /\S* ∯un /\S* it is FFungible

        Xtremism ⅀\/⅀®Yʬhere/\yuk

        Yikes ! likeYats !! Put-in P0ʬ® /\S*jus/\joke..:

        **jj — nuland.Kagan [[aGain “BButcher of Ukraine”]]
        **jj — /\/\ogilavitch.poroshenko
        **jj — andropov.PutIN
        **jj — lenIN.stalIN[[JeorgiaJJ]]

        **jj — jje∯®ey§achs.§ummers [[HIID Haa\/id /\S*
        ʬell!!hell /\S* Cambridge Dons]]

        ℤ0₩ie. rem.rem rep.rep etc.etc inter/\liya & et al


    • David Eire says

      it’s the tower of Babel all over again…
      I see it more optimistically. The innate differences and conflicts in the human psyche are being expressed and processed. Human consciousness is changing and evolving at an exponential rate. Although the general trajectory is upward there will be a lot of dark stuff along the way as there has always been throughout human social development and history. The internet is accelerating everything. It’s scary and we may not make it; but the process is inevitable.

  27. archie1954 says

    Before NATO comments on Russian militarization of its borders, it should check to see just how well NATO militarization of Russian borders has been accomplished. Secondly, it should ruminate for awhile on the dangers of supporting violent coups in other nations.

    • Maggie says

      @Archie 1954
      So what’s new? We’ve had these scripts before, but just long enough for some to have forgotten.

      >>>An exhaustive new book, The War Within: America’s Battle Over Vietnam, begins with a dramatic account of the Tonkin Gulf incidents. In an interview, author Tom Wells told us that American media “described the air strikes that Johnson launched in response as merely `tit for tat’ — when in reality they reflected plans the administration had already drawn up for gradually increasing its overt military pressure against the North.”
      Why such inaccurate news coverage? Wells points to the media’s “almost exclusive reliance on U.S. government officials as sources of information” — as well as “reluctance to question official pronouncements on ‘national security issues.’”
      Daniel Hallin’s classic book The “Uncensored War” observes that journalists had “a great deal of information available which contradicted the official account [of Tonkin Gulf events]; it simply wasn’t used. The day before the first incident, Hanoi had protested the attacks on its territory by Laotian aircraft and South Vietnamese gunboats.”
      What’s more, “It was generally known…that `covert’ operations against North Vietnam, carried out by South Vietnamese forces with U.S. support and direction, had been going on for some time.”
      In the absence of independent journalism, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution — the closest thing there ever was to a declaration of war against North Vietnam — sailed through Congress on Aug. 7. (Two courageous senators, Wayne Morse of Oregon and Ernest Gruening of Alaska, provided the only “no” votes.) The resolution authorized the president “to take all necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States and to prevent further aggression.”
      The rest is tragic history.
      Nearly three decades later, during the Gulf War, columnist Sydney Schanberg warned journalists not to forget “our unquestioning chorus of agreeability when Lyndon Johnson bamboozled us with his fabrication of the Gulf of Tonkin incident.”
      Schanberg blamed not only the press but also “the apparent amnesia of the wider American public.<<<

      And the same again …

      • Maggie says

        Ten Commandments of War Propaganda:
        We do not want war.
        The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
        The enemy is the face of the devil.
        We defend a noble cause, not our own interest.
        The enemy systematically commits cruelties; our mishaps are involuntary.
        The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
        We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
        Artists and intellectuals back our cause.
        Our cause is sacred.
        All who doubt our propaganda, are traitors.



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