empire watch, latest, Skripal case
Comments 55

The Incapacitation of Salisbury

David Macilwain

This is a sequel to “The Poison Paradox – who knew?”, and a logical extrapolation of facts already established “beyond reasonable doubt” on the Salisbury poisonings. In the absence of a properly established scientific inquiry, and tribunal involving all the parties to this dispute, such “unprejudiced speculation” must suffice.

Salisbury NHS Trust hospital

It is one of the great contradictions of our society, whose essential operations are now so inextricably linked to technology, that understanding of and respect for “science” is worse than ever before. This ignorance amongst the presumably well-educated Western public extends to almost all the areas of knowledge one can imagine – it is “in-omniscient”.

So instead of critical understanding of – say – the Carbon cycle or astronomy, we have the denial of catastrophic climate change and the mythology of hyper-temporal space travel. A recent report that a new planet had been discovered, whose “proximity to Australia” made it of special interest illustrates this cognitive disjunction. At only six light years from Earth it is close in astronomical terms – yet almost 400,000 times the distance to the Sun.

While the detection of this planet is remarkable – like finding a pea on a distant mountain peak – its actual existence has about as much meaning as that would in our daily lives. It only serves to bring home the acute loneliness of humanity as it faces obliteration – drowning in its own waste or turned to ash in a holocaust of nuclear idiocy.

Such scientific illiteracy is of course not universal, though the huge “scientific community” may be increasingly fragmented and specialised, and ever more reliant on information technology to control processes that are almost beyond individual comprehension. One suspects also that holistic understanding of science – or what was once called “Natural Philosophy” – is dying out as its old-school reservoirs are drying up.

All this is a necessary preamble for the strictly scientific case I intend to make – or reinforce – on the apparent poisoning of the five Salisbury “Novichok victims” with the Incapacitant known as “BZ”, or 3-quinuclinidyl Benzilate. That I must do this against a new blizzard of misinformation from the BBC’s notorious “Panorama” programme only makes the presentation of this circumstantial evidence more necessary; for doubters to finally conclude that “it must have been Novichok” simply because there seems no alternative would be most unfortunate.

There is now ample evidence to say – with reasonable certainty – that the Skripals and DS Bailey were initially affected by BZ, and that the Amesbury couple, Sturgess and Rowley also likely were – based on their reported symptoms and some prejudicial assumptions. For those who haven’t been following the story of “Operation Nina”, it is again necessary to repeat that “Novichok” has been categorically proven absent from the Salisbury environment, due to its extreme toxicity and its mode of action. The latest scare stories that “thousands could have died” had the alleged contents of the alleged perfume bottle been spread around only confirm this, because they didn’t. They are a new low in misinformation from the “investigating” authorities.

The discovery of BZ as the likely culprit for the Skripals’ poisoning may not have happened had Russia not obtained the original test results from the Spiez lab, which showed traces of BZ in the Skripals’ blood samples. The hostile reaction to Lavrov’s leaking of the details from the OPCW, UK and Dutch authorities both verified the lab’s findings and increased suspicion about them.

The finding of BZ in the blood samples by Spiez lab was confirmed however, but with the bizarre claim it was present as a result of being a “control sample” in the testing for Novichok. Neither BZ nor its “precursors” bear the remotest resemblance to Novichok and other related nerve agents, neither physically nor in their effects, so this claim is quite mendacious. It is those effects that I’ll now focus on.

To understand the extreme difference between Incapacitants such as BZ and Nerve agents like Novichok/A 234, VX and Sarin, a little knowledge of neurophysiology is necessary, and particularly on the way that nerve impulses are transmitted. Both types of chemical produce their effects on muscles, glands and brain by affecting this “neurotransmission”.

The transmission of nerve impulses across the junctions between nerves and muscles or glands is mediated by the “neurotransmitter” Acetylcholine. A Ch is produced at the nerve ending and migrates across the junction – synapse – to the muscle or gland receptors. Following this action an enzyme – Acetylcholine Esterase – rapidly breaks down the A Ch so that the stimulus to the gland or muscle ceases.

Nerve agents are described as “Anti-Choline-esterase” or Choline-esterase Inhibitors, and act so the A Ch from nerve impulses accumulates and causes continuous stimulation of the muscle or gland, with consequent symptoms of excessive fluid secretion and muscle paralysis, including of heart and diaphragm.

By contrast, BZ and related Anti-Cholinergic substances (which include Atropine and Scopolamine) prevent Acetyl Choline from acting on the receptor sites across the synapse by being absorbed onto and blocking those sites. This interruption to nerve impulses has an entirely different action on the body, with very distinct and visible symptoms I’ll describe shortly.

So the two classes of chemical are in fact antagonistic, and with opposite or very different effects. It may also be noted that consequently these antagonists may act as antidotes for each other; Atropine is for example the choice antidote for nerve agents; that BZ might be assumed to have similar activity against Novichok raises some interesting questions.

When we consider the reported symptoms of poisoning exhibited by the Skripals when they were noticed behaving oddly in the Salisbury Maltings area, the discovery – or revelation – of BZ in their blood samples starts to make sense. One of the strange but apparently characteristic symptoms of BZ intoxication, described in this document from the US Military, is a reaching up action, as if “picking clothes” or “wool-gathering”. This was also described by the only recorded witness, Freya Church:

She was slumped over on the man’s shoulder. To be honest, I thought they might be homeless but they were perhaps better dressed.”

I just thought this is weird, especially as she was clearly quite a bit younger than him.”

She had a red bag at her feet. He was gesturing at the sky, doing some kind of movements with his hands.”

He was looking up and his eyes were glazed.”

There was no one else there near them at this point. No one was helping them.”

Regrettably we have no more descriptions of the Skripals’ condition, except from Salisbury Hospital staff, as reported previously. No doubt the normal case notes for them would be in the hospital records for the first 48 hours while they were in A&E as suspected Opiate overdose victims. Those notes are now of considerable interest in fact, as the other symptoms of BZ intoxication are quite distinct.

Unlike nerve agents, BZ does not cause paralysis and loss of consciousness within minutes of exposure. Symptoms may not appear for up to four hours, but then last for up to four days, depending on the dose. Those symptoms listed in the US manual above and elsewhere – and evidently witnessed in trials during the development of BZ as a “military grade” agent include the following – hallucinations and bizarre behaviour, fast heartrate for 2 days, dilated pupils with dry eyes, red-hot flush, disrobing, senseless speech, delirium and stupor.

It is quite clear from this that the A&E staff who treated the Skripals on admission must have observed some of these symptoms and reacted accordingly – which as ward nurse Sarah Clarke reported was simply that “they were needing support with their breathing, and support with their cardio-vascular system”. It is however usual to treat suspected Opioid overdose cases with Naloxone injection immediately; that the patients would not have responded to this or responded adversely would surely have been noted.

Opioids like Fentanyl are depressants, with symptoms quite unlike those of BZ – including tachycardia and hyperthermia, and this seems to be acknowledged by the BBC’s Mark Urban:

as they continued treating their patients, the early theory about opioid poisoning was discarded”.

In fact we might question whether that “theory” or clinical diagnosis of opioid poisoning was ever seriously considered, and “discarded” as soon as the patients were examined. Perhaps then doctors would have realised they were dealing with something unusual, and contacted the experts at Porton Down, though the reference to “phone calls starting” early on Monday morning suggests otherwise.

At this point however, some more questions arise, as the BBC report states that the Skripals’ Cholinesterase levels were “next to zero” – indicating a nerve agent or Cholinesterase inhibitor was present. But it is not clear whether this clinical observation and test was made following the intervention by Porton Down specialists. The interview comments from SDH staff are ambiguous on this point:

Lorna Wilkinson, Director of Nursing:

by the Tuesday, through various tests and diagnostics that we were running, that’s where it became apparent we were looking at a cholinesterase inhibition….”

Dr Christine Blanchard, Medical Director:

whilst a district general hospital, a laboratory, cannot test specifically for a nerve agent, we can request tests for eg anticholinesterase levels. It was our colleagues in Porton Down that helped us with the testing.”

Following this “helpful intervention”, no further clinical details are available, other than the doctors’ reference to “untested drugs” being tried, and then finally the rather rapid and unexpected recovery of both patients.

Given that the effects of BZ last no longer than four days maximum, a further – and highly problematic – question arises; why did the Skripals not then recover from their “incapacity”?

What other conclusion can we draw than this: that Yulia and Sergei Skripal were given some “special treatment” by Porton Down experts that kept them in a coma until it was expedient for them to “recover”?

Is it possible that the reported presence of trace amounts of “degraded Novichok” in the Skripals’ blood samples (along with the clearly false claim they contained “Novichok of high purity”) was evidence of this “special treatment”?

It also appears, now we have access to Det Sgt Bailey’s personal account, that he received rather different treatment:

I was conscious throughout the whole time,” he said. “I had lots of injections… I had five or six infusions at any one time in my arms. Physically, I felt quite numb after a while.”

Incapacitated even?

Sixties drop out, Scientist-farmer, cheesemaker-Luddite, late life activist for the Resistance, Putin/Assad/Nasrallah lover. Atheist. Traveller-student through MENA-Russia-Europe. Abandoned UK frying pan for Australian fire. Marginalised dissident. Author for Russia Insider/AHT and OffG.

55 Comments

  1. Small gutter stargazer says

    The “in-omnisicient” public – I like it, but strictly speaking that translates to “not-omniscient”, a charge which anyone who is not delusional would surely admit to.

    How about “omni-ignorant” or just “omnignorant” instead? I think that conveys the pervasive state of ubiquitous ignorance you’re referring to.

  2. Fredjc says

    I’m sorry David but none of this story can be taken on face-value. It is a fabrication, it is a dead parrot, it is not asleep, or just playing dead, it is a fecking story, wake-up! Or should we wake up after we realise we’ve been stuffed by Mey and the EU?

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    • sammy says

      Building the case for war with Russia for its oil reserves. Its next on the list along with Iran.
      Have to build the narrative that ‘Putin’ is evil and Russians ‘bad’ in order for the public to acept the war thats coming
      This banned documentary is part of the bigger picture
      http://www.magnitskyact.com/
      Why is the U.S. mainstream media so frightened of a documentary that debunks the beloved story of how “lawyer” Sergei Magnitsky uncovered massive Russian government corruption and died as a result? If the documentary is as flawed as its critics claim, why won’t they let it be shown to the American public, then lay out its supposed errors, and use it as a case study of how such fakery works?
      Robert Parry, investigative journalist

  3. Baron says

    It’s reading a piece like this that one’s faith in the ultimate goodness of man gets a solid boost.

    Well written, convincing, as close to the truth as the truth itself, Mr. Macilwain (even if Baron can follow mostly the logic of your argument what with not being a trained chemist). You are one of the prominent members of the ‘Healthy core of Britishness’, a phylum of people who have not just the knowledge, but also the guts to stand up to mendacity however powerful or threatening it may be.

    Thank you, and good luck with the farming.

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  4. The Yussiefication of England:

    “She was slumped over on the man’s shoulder. _To be honest, I thought they might be homeless but they were perhaps better dressed_.”

  5. Are you suggesting or implying that the condition of Skripals from Sunday to sometime on Tuesday morning….at best their condition might have been stabilised…..or at worse condition declining…or not responding quickly enough perhaps..being treated with not the optimum drugs perhaps (although organo phosphate poisening by agriculutral products for example would be known)..until the tests came back from Porton Down enabling the ” correct ” or more appropiate selection of drugs that assisted natural recovery as the ones that affected them began to wear off? Is there a more precise time line how long those Porton Down tests took and is that reasonable……fairly quickly to confirm bz or fentanyl perhaps but how long would really be needed to establish a military grade of high quailty nerve agent specified as a type of Novichok….? Thats where it falls apart for me in the official story……well as we suspect the inconsistency ..a novichok of the type that the smallest amount that kills in seconds yet Skripals were treated by attendant medics for half an hour with what …..antidotes for a more every day normal suspician of bz -fentanyl types ?

  6. King Kong says

    I enjoy reading the Off-Guardian, i have now all but stopped reading the Fraudian. It once had a semblance of credibility, which went down the drain a long time ago. I think that when you start recognizing that your own reality, recorded by your eyes (Lying ?) is not what is told in media, it is then you start to question almost everything that is fed to you. Once you a through this process, you will want to go back in time and start dissecting what has been the official narrative, coupling with what whistleblowers have leaked, your blood turns colder and the hairs on you back rise, you realize you are expendable, utterly expendable and that this machinery will destroy anything that is in its way.
    The assassination of JFK was bungled, that of his brother even more so, and people started to investigate, hence operation Mockingbird and the introduction of “conspiracy theories” as a weapon to ridicule those who asked troublesome questions.
    Even on the day of 9/11 I thought the events were awkward, but the sheer horror of the day managed to dim out clear thinking. Approximately 2 years later saw a video on Youtube, which resonated with the troubles I had felt on the day, something was not quite right. To my shame I found out that the official narrative contradicted everything I had been taught just a few years ago. (I am a Engineer, not construction, mechanics and electricity).
    That made me go back in time : ECHELON, Gladio, Rote Armee, USS Liberty, Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Northwoods, Iran 1953 etc, etc. and I realized this had been going on for a long time, we are like mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed shit.
    We cannot even only accuse the MSM of lying, ohh they do, but they also create new fake realities (Carl Rove) which we the gullible idiots accept, or most do and that’s it.
    The peoples of both Russia and China might not always get the complete and unadulterated truth, but as far as I can see they are not fed completely fake made up facts. We are.

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    • Einstein says

      And ukcolumnnews is similarly better than the BBC propaganda machine.

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  7. dgnl says

    If Yulia was found unconscious and vomiting that would more likely imply fentanyl rather than BZ.

    On Thursday the 8th of March the British government claimed that they had identified a “nerve agent” as the substance used. Yet the BBC quotes on the same day a woman physician who attended at the scene saying that she found Mrs. Skripal slumped unconscious on a bench vomiting and fitting. She had lost control of her bodily functions. The physician, who asked not to be named, told the BBC she moved the daughter into the recovery position and opened her airways as others tended to her father. The doctor stated that the she treated her for almost 30 minutes, saying there was no sign of any chemical agent on her face or body and that though she had been worried she would be affected by a nerve agent so far she “feels fine.”
    https://journal-neo.org/2018/03/09/the-skripal-incident-another-anti-russian-provocation/

    If think the BZ thing has been a red herring, probably from a control sample sent alongside the environmental sample with the high putiry A-234 (not the biomedical samples) to the Swiss lab.

    http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Talk:Poisoning_of_Sergei_Skripal

    • It is possible that the Skripals were poisoned with some other substances as well as with BZ – but not of course Novichok. But BZ is NOT a red herring. I wrote earlier about the question of “control” samples in chemical testing, towards the end of this article:
      https://ahtribune.com/world/europe/uk/skirpal/2232-skripal-douma-provocation.html

      There are some technical links that explain the details, and the significance well understood by both Russian and UK scientists. Matching a control sample to the substance being tested for is fundamental in all areas of analysis; the best control for Novichok would be Novichok of the same type, viz A 234
      So it’s still important to remember that some explanation for the observed events must be found, in the absence of Novichok, and BZ seems the most likely candidate. The rest follows.

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  8. Molloy says

    .

    Regardless of the ‘poison’ and other diversions, (a) where are the Skripals, and (b) who benefits most from this nasty and grubby attempt to conceal facts from the UK public?

    The U$K fakedem regime are only the monkeys 🐒 🐵

    .

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  9. Fair dinkum says

    Many scientists see themselves as ‘priests’ of the 20th and 21st centuries, but they still can’t explain consciousness (who we are) or define dark matter (what the universe is made of).
    I take their pronouncements with a grain of Sodium Chloride.

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    • Molloy says

      .

      Reality is (Occam’s) rational people will prefer Macilwain’s adult approach to that of the UK$US fake democratic regime.
      Decency and honesty do not require lies, spin and psyops.

      For me, the lives of the Skripals are far more important than buttressing and protecting a criminal arms dealing mafia. Or pretending that ‘services’ (self-justifying services) are doing a good job. Or diverting public attention away from frequent war crime.
      All in order for the wrongdoers to maintain a fake status (and class); continuing to take money for incompetence by dishonesty and deception.

      Read The Fatal Shore lately? Lots of witnesses there continue to be silenced. . . . the burden of greedily living on other people’s land.

      He who comes to equity. . . . they say, must first have clean hands.
      Welcome to the fake and abusive world of the 5$eyes, working hard for the 1%.

      Sláinte

      .

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  10. Alan Tench says

    That latest spy camera footage showing the alleged perpetrators walking across a bridge: I wonder why the camera follows them? Normally spy cameras just observe the scene, but in this case it slightly pans the scene to follow the men. Is it for real, I wonder.

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  11. Critical Thinker says

    I got as far as the claim that six light years was about 6000 times the distance from earth to sun. What a whopper!

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    • Savorywill says

      How far would six light years be, in terms of the distance to the sun?

      • grandstand says

        About 380 thousand times the distance to the sun. Light takes about 500 seconds to arrive at the Earth from the sun. A light year is 365x24x3600 light seconds approximately.

        • Well my offhand calculation of how many 8 minute periods there were in six years only emphasises the point I was making! But thanks – I’ll suggest an edit.

          • Robbobbobbin says

            Ooops, forgot the multiplier of 6 in the weird misreport that David seems to have picked up on. Still, not as bad as assuming an AU meant an Australia. And nobody has discovered it yet, either, though some have postulated it. Without, specifying it in AU, vierotchka got the presumed average distance right. With the optimal orbital conditions, slingshotting around the sun could get a rocket to rendezvous with it (or not) in about 20 years.

          • Robbobbobin says

            Ooops, forgot the multiplier of 6 in the weird misreport that David seems to have picked up on. Still, not as bad as assuming an AU meant an Australia. And nobody has discovered it yet, either, though some have postulated it. Without specifying it in AU, vierotchka got the presumed average distance right. With the optimal orbital conditions, slingshotting around the sun could get a rocket to rendezvous with it (or not) in about 20 years.

    • Antonym says

      I stumbled on : “So instead of critical understanding of – say – the Carbon cycle or astronomy, we have the denial of catastrophic climate change”

      Anyone doing critical science will put many question marks with catastrophic climate change plus a causation to anthropogenic CO2.

      On the Skripal saga I can agree.

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      • Roberto says

        That did seem a rather gratuitous inclusion in the article, but revealing the genius of the ‘movement’ which settled on climate change when global warming was having problems, and more so now that the average temperature of the earth has been cooling for some 20 years. Note that Climate Change has now become Catastrophic Climate Change to crank up the fear level. No one would ever deny climate change – it’s an historical fact, verified by scientific methods, and always happens. The dispute arises with regard to the ’cause’, as if there is a cause for the natural cycles of our solar system and indeed, the universe itself.
        The goal is to blame despicable humans, for everything that ‘interferes’ with nature, which to me has always seemed a projection of self-deprecation. Thus the ‘noble savage’ cult of past ages that persists even today, whereby primitive state humans who would survive by eating bugs and die soon from disease are held up as the ideal existence for the species, living within the bounds of their individual capabilities. Meanwhile, volcanoes would continue to blow up, floods and fires would not abate, ice ages would come and go, and big things would crash into Earth destroying everything, most fauna included. Of course, none of this matters: it just ‘is’, and it just happens.
        There was an article the other day that seriously discussed the formation of groups of people traumatised about ‘climate change’ into programs of support akin to 12-step AA meetings. Could this be peak madness of the Chicken Little worriers, distressed to distraction? Probably not: they will always exist, just as the Luddites have and will always exist. The difference now is that we are ruled by the tyranny of the minority, and obsessional neurosis is the basis for legislation to attempt to enforce universal panic, aided and abetted by the popular media (i.e. gossipers).
        It’s their job. Now get ready for the roughly generational Ice Age panic, and new funding to prevent it.

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        • Those noble savages also ate up all large and slow animals they could, forever damaging ecology, turning Australia and chunks of South America to deserts, forcing themselves into cannibalism as no other prey for hunt remained and so on.

          Savages might be innocent like kids with matchbox, but it does not make them safe or noble yet

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        • In the interests of those who wish to avoid being labelled “conspiracy theorists” because they believe the moon landing was fake (I don’t), I need to make it quite clear here that I am NOT a “climate change denier” – for the same reasons I believe that 9/11 was an inside job, and that the Skripal poisoning was the work of the UK agencies and partners. It’s all “science”.
          As it happens today I’m joining a “Funeral for our Future” protesting at Australia’s inaction on climate change and support for new coal mines. Perhaps I should have amended my CV..
          My greatest problem here is that nearly all the people who understand the science on AGW do not agree with me on NATO’s war on Russia and her allies.

          • Blunderbuss says

            David Mcilwain, Nov 30, 2018

            ‘I am NOT a “climate change denier” – for the same reasons I believe that 9/11 was an inside job, and that the Skripal poisoning was the work of the UK agencies and partners. It’s all “science”’.

            That’s interesting. I am a “climate change denier” because of science. When I say “climate change denier” I mean that I accept that climate change is happening but I don’t accept that carbon dioxide is the main driver of it.

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      • Yarkob says

        all these calculations..wouldn’t it be easier to say 1AU? 🙂

        light travels at 186000 miles a second. The sun is 93 million miles away. My head hurts.

        • Robbobbobin says

          I tried to correct my idiot post that simply underquoted grandstand’s numbers by 6 (still, not as bad as the author of the weirdo misreport David seems to have picked up on’s apparent assumption that AU meant Australia) but the system told me I was posting to fast (which was sort of correct) so the post disappeared. Yes, it would be better to quote its average distance in AU. Withour mentioning AUs, vierotchka got that basic unit sorted out. Assumed distance of object is between 200 and 1200 AU at ^helions, if the postulate that posits it is correct. About 20 years away by rocket with optimal orbital conditions, using the sun as a slingshot. Advance AU fair.

  12. Portonchok says

    Not clear what is new in this article, but it’s good to be reminded again of this whole ridiculous, ridiculous, saga.

    Anyone following this saga with an open mind, and looking at the initial reports and real evidence, knows that BZ was clearly used and that Novichok could not have produced the symptoms witnessed. It’s feasible that what was contained inside the planted perfume bottle for the two unfortunates to suffer was actually Novichok in order to “prove” that Novichok was used.

    We also know that for 3 weeks priorto to the Skripal BZ incident, the army was holding NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) drills on Salisbury Plain on the army ranges there. Porton Down is just a few miles away too. They must have practiced all the scenarios on the Plain, then moved down into the town itself, and the rest is history…

    Dirty Empirical war games and false flags – we’ve always had them, they will always be with us.

    P.S. Where are the Skripals? No longer useful to the UK authorities and we should now wish them RIP ?

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      • Grafter says

        “Fifteen years later, and the threat remains – though not in Iraq. But the conflict in Syria has shown that some nations not only possess weapons of mass destruction, but are prepared to use them.”…..More fear mongering propaganda from the Royal Navy website. This is the kind of lunacy which will lead us down the path towards nuclear extinction.

        • Yarkob says

          well, to be fair, I can remember this shit the last time round in the 70s and 80s. We had all sort of scaremongering then, and equally deluded leaders in Regan and Thatch, so I’m not too worried..it’s mostly kabuki theatre imo. Nobody wants to die in a fiery, radioactive conflagration. sabre rattling works on the petrified masses when (un)informed consent is needed to everybody wins

    • Molloy says

      .

      “Dirty Empirical war games and false flags – we’ve always had them, they will always be with us.”

      One of the arguments used by Fred West’s defence QC (G Cox?). . . . . had he been up for a pedestrian LR.

      Expect a ‘guilty’ from any non-rigged jury.

    • A Broken Heart Laments

      Yulia, o Yulia wherefore art thou?
      I thought I’d have heard from you by now
      In verdant spring you stole my heart
      Now on winter’s eve we are still apart
      It’s been so long since you’ve been sighted
      Leaving me pale, bereft and unrequited
      I remember so well your flaxen hair
      That you tossed aside without a care
      With your coy smile and Slavic charm
      You raptured me with with love’s sweet balm
      Yet as soon as our eyes met across the screen
      Suddenly, cruelly, you’re nowhere to be seen
      I scoured the news desperate to find
      Some solace for my turmoiled mind
      No matter how fervently I persisted
      It’s almost as though you’d never existed
      It seems the worst I could have feared
      That you have indeed been disappeared
      My aching soul cries in anguish and pain
      As my heart tells me I’ll never see you again
      Time drifts by and our memories fade
      But I’ll never forget you, my fair Salisbury maid.

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      • Molloy says

        .

        Wonder if you realise your ‘poem’ can easily be seen as sarcasm?

        Was it in fact your intention to mock another human when (v high probability amongst the lies and deceit no-one has an answer to) that human more than likely unlawfully killed ?
        Do the analysis yourself via Craig Murray website.

        If it was your intention to make fun of a dead person, then content yourself with being an obnoxious excuse for a person. You ain’t big you ain’t clever and never will be.

        Finally. In the very unlikely event my analysis is wrong, apologies.

        .

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      • W, thanks for that creative note. Are you by any chance the person who posted some really good verse near the start of St.Theresa’s historical-tragical-comical Whitehall farce?

        • Molloy says

          .

          Vex, nice one.

          Seems to me that W may have taken umbrage at the suggestion that W was mocking the dead. Which, if true, nullifies all poetical merit. imho.
          Equity, clean hands, blah blah. . . . .

          Happy to be proved wrong. Sláinte

          .

  13. Michael Leigh says

    Reading author David Macilwain’s apparently well researched medical/bio-chemical facts, precludes a lay-person like myself coming to any scientific or technical belief in this most plausible look, at the ‘ British government’s ” potential dastardly acts by Mde May and her inner circle of political collaborators ‘ as being more than just treason?

    For our future national sanity, if the aforementiuon research becomes accepted by say David Macilwain’s peer group(s) then one can only hope that the national and international communities wrath will be sufficient to allay a whitewashing of the true facts and lead to a revoulion in the political representation practice for all future in Governments ?

    Not-with-standing my prior comments I am sure that Maccilwain’s conclusions herefore are more than
    just simple guess work !

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    • I agree. I think this is a fundamentally well written article that easily communicates its points. I cannot comment on the accuracy of its scientific aspect but I feel one would have to be a fool to publish such an article without an adequate grasp of the subject matter and trust the author in his analysis. It is a shame that sites such as Off Guardian are so easily discredited by sock puppets appearing with alien conspiracy theories or trying to drag every criticism of neoliberal economics and capitalism to a criticism of the Jews. I am 55 years of age, live in Bristol and in my whole life I have never heard anyone express any anti-Semitism. it just doesn’t come up. I am at a complete loss to explain how or why it is insinuated into the comment sections of so many sites so regularly other than to assume it is the activity of sock puppets trying to discredit the poltical views of a site and its readers.

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      • Robbobbobin says

        Anti-semitism is so often conflated with anti-Zionism by malicious anti-Palestinians that it’s now as difficult to tell them apart as is differentiating between “Friends of Israel” and “with ‘friends’ like that, who needs enemies?”

        —–

        Proud to be anti-FAsCemitic

    • Molloy says

      .

      “. . . this article is almost incoherent.“

      Oh really?! Gaslighting merely informs where your concealed sympathies reside.

      Slip of the keyboard finger at GC$HQ?

      .

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  14. Thomas Turk says

    With his resume one would have thought the author may have read The Telegraph expose of Climate Gate, (warming). Nutters now blame this change on warming, when in fact it’s cooling.

    His other incoherent rambling is about other-worldly human species. He needs to open theyfly.com as millions have and realize that Swiss Billy Meier has had open contact with an et race for over 70 years. This race claims common ancestry with many here, (Most here are from the far reaches of this Dern Universe, not from chimp via Lucy, they told us). They claim to be 8,500 years ahead on tech, medicine and.. The Laws of the Creation. The purpose of their contacts was to pass on. these Laws, which previous Prophets .failed to do.

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  15. Kev says

    Please note that the Panorama programme last week moved the time of Porton Down being contacted to around 9pm on the Sunday evening according to “Prof Tim” @ about 04.38 in from the start.

    • Yes thanks, I had noticed that – and comments on Panorama later…! The only basis for conclusions on the exact time were from Urban’s Newsnight interviews with hospital staff, who had a meeting on Monday morning. But given what I have speculated about the likely behaviour of the Skripals, which would not have looked like the effects of Fentanyl as soon as they were brought into A&E, it seems likely SDH would have contacted PD that evening.
      On the wider point, my article aims to make a solid case on the evidence for BZ poisoning, and implications of its limited effect – what happened when the effects wore off? BZ is mentioned in the Panorama prog, but dismissed as just Russia’s hit back that the “nerve agent” was a NATO one. They can’t ignore its existence, but simply destroy Russia’s solid case with this deflection.

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