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DISCUSS: Theresa May Promises to Resign

The weird world of post-Brexit vote UK politics swirls around some more. Now, in order to try to force her deal through the commons, May has pledged to resign as Prime Minister.

The field is set for a Tory leadership contest – the field for which is as narrow as it is unpromising. Boris Johnson is national joke, and sign that Britons will so far as to actually vote ironically. Michael Gove is a slimy lunatic, so right-wing that Ken Clarke and Liam Fox “raise their eyebrows”. Sajid Javid is as forgettable as he is unpopular. Amber Heard was found in contempt of Parliament less than a year ago.

In the final analysis we will have a Prime Minister the people didn’t chose, leading a parliament with no majority to force through a deal that’s already lost a commons vote. Twice.

British “democracy” is becoming a joke.

  • How long before a General Election simply has to be called?
  • Will the Labour MPs who scheme to replace Corbyn sabotage their own party, again?
  • Will the Independet Group be wiped out of Parliament?
  • Will the Tories hold off on the GE until Corbyn has been further smeared and/or forcibly removed? Or will the just fix the vote?
  • Will the increasing attempts to dismantle the very idea of Brexit be successful?
  • Is Brexit ever going to actually happen?

Discuss below.


82 Comments

  1. The current imbroglio has really highlighted that our political system is deeply anachronistic, suitable only for vain nincompoops like Bercow who are addicted to the dated theatrics of it all.

    The whole idea of electing local representatives to send to a parliament in London is the creation of the horse-drawn carriage age. It will surely sooner or later dawn on us all that as we are now in the internet age we no longer need to pretend that one person can somehow represent the views of thousands of constituents. Every single member of the electorate can now remotely participate in government debates and votes, and history will certainly pan out this way. The only question is how long will it take for the self-important buffoons in parliament to be phased out and invited to spend all (not just more of) their time with their families.

    Not before time we have found out that the majority of MPs were only ever really representing themselves, albeit often as covertly as possible for fear that voters might rumble their game. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if and when it transpires that a General Election is on the horizon that many MPs who have been quietly scuppering Brexit suddenly develop very public Leave sympathies.

    Anyway, at least the major problem has at long last been revealed by the Brexit shenanigans. Can we please all start to participate in our government as soon as possible? As a result public apathy and cynicism on politics, and no doubt much else, would likely disappear overnight. Players behave very differently to mere spectators.

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    • Tim Jenkins says

      Exactly.

      Indeed, BCD Berk-Cow Diseased vanity, fairly & legitimately speaks for ‘one size fits all’ and yer’ so right about the revelation. Players do behave so very differently from mere spectators.

      Great to read your views again, Ross:
      where on earth have you been, up the Limpopo ? 🙂

      Your level headed viewpoint was sorely missed, on many occasions, say I . . .

      ‘Keeping things whole’

      In a field
      I am the absence
      of field.
      This is
      always the case.
      Wherever I am
      I am what is missing.

      When I walk
      I part the air
      and always
      the air moves in
      to fill the spaces
      where my body’s been.

      We all have reasons
      for moving.
      I move
      to keep things whole.

      Mark Strand

      Hope you are fit & well,
      Best wishes,
      Tim

    • mark says

      Serious Question: Doesn’t participating in this irredeemably corrupt and dysfunctional system just give it undeserved legitimacy and sustain it well past its sell by date?

      “Everybody must be really happy with our sham democracy Kosher Sandwich Shitshow because they all voted in our bogus meaningless elections.”

      In 2016, 130 million people voted for the Orange Baboon, Crooked Hillary and the Green Idiot. 120 million (48%) didn’t vote at all. They realised that the whole tawdry, degrading spectacle was completely irrelevant to their lives.

      Suppose that 120 million became 250 million, and nobody voted for these totally worthless, arrogant, corrupt, self serving, degenerate Zionist stooge pieces of filth. That even their own dog wouldn’t vote for them. Wouldn’t that cut them down to size and put them in their place?

      Just asking. .

  2. Makropulos says

    On the topic of “democracy” there is this wonderful passage from the preface to Guido Giacomo Preparata’s “Conjuring Hitler”. It is a footnote that starts on page 3. It’s a whopper of a quote but it’s well worth reading:

    “So-called ‘democracy’ is a sham, the ballot a travesty. In modern bureaucratized systems, whose birth dates from the mid-nineteenth century, the feudal organization has been carried to the next level, so to speak. A chief objective of what Thucydides referred to in his epoch as synomosiai (literally ‘exchanges of oaths’), that is, the out-of-sight fraternities acting behind the ruling clans, has been to make the process of the exaction of rents from the population (a ‘free income’ in the form of rents, financial charges and like thefts) as unfathomable and impenetrable as possible. The tremendous sophistication, and the propagandistic wall of artfully divulged misconceptions surrounding the banking system (we will return to this theme in Chapter 4), which is the chief instrument wherewith the hierarchs expropriate and control the wealth of their supporting community, is the limpid testimony of this essential transformation undergone by the feudal/oligarchic organization in the modern era. The West has moved from a low-tech agrarian establishment built upon the backs of disenfranchised serfs to a highly mechanized post-industrial hive that feeds off the strength of no less disenfranchised blue- and white-collar slaves, whose lives are mortgaged to buy into the vogue of modern consumption. The latter-day lords of the manor are no longer seen demanding tribute since they have relied on the mechanics of banking accounts for the purpose, whereas the sycophants of the median class, as academics and publicists, have consistently remained loyal to the synomosiai. The other concrete difference between yesterday and today is the immensely increased throughput of industrial production (whose potential level, however, has always been significantly higher than the actual one, to keep prices high). As for the ‘democratic participation’ of the ordinary citizens, these know in their hearts that they never decide anything of weight, and that politics consists in the art of swaying the mobs in one direction or another according to the wishes and anticipations of the few having the keys to information, intelligence and finance. These few may at a point in time be more or less divided into warring factions; the deeper the division, the bloodier the social strife. The electoral record of the West in the past century is a shining monument to the utter inconsequence of ‘democracy’: in spite of two cataclysmic wars and a late system of proportional representation that yielded a plethora of parties, Western Europe has seen no significant shift in her socio-economic constitution, whereas America has become, as time progressed, ever more identical to her late oligarchic self, having reduced the democratic pageant to a contest between two rival wings of an ideologically compact monopartite structure, which is in fact ‘lobbied’ by more or less hidden ‘clubs’: the degree of public participation in this flagrant mockery is, as known, understandably lowest: a third of the franchise at best.”

    You can see more here:

    http://guidopreparata.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Preparata-ConjuringHitler-Preface.pdf

    • Mikalina says

      or……
      on page 96 of ‘Proletarian Internationalism: Guideline of the Communists’, by V. Plyanksky, published in 1970
      by Novosti Press Agency Publishing House, Moscow25.

      The United States practices a form of’democratism’ – maintaining the illusion of democracy for public consumption, but in practice offering the electorate no more than the appearance of a choice of personnel ostensibly from the ‘Left’ or the ‘Right’ of the dialectic, while the intelligence services, which are in turn controlled by the Illuminati at the highest levels, in fact control the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of the overt Government, selecting and imposing their own candidates.” Christopher Story

      I don’t doubt that the same applies to the bunch of well paid puppets in the HoC/HoL.

  3. Winston1984 says

    The UK is one of the very few countries without a true revolution. The Cromwell episode was two cheeks of the same bum fighting over which cheeck would have the right to repress the masses.

    Time is due for the masses to own their destiny an dismanlte a fake democracy.

    Democracy is the worst system of operation apart from all the others – said a member of the elite.

    Time for people power.

  4. I’ve long been of the opinion that Brexit is essentially a soft coup by the Americans. The first phase was getting the plebs to believe it was patriotic to support Leave, with the help of half-American Johnson, and then forcing Cameron out (I suspect by blackmail, given his past). Then May was installed in strange circumstances and without a vote by Conservative Party members.
    The second phase seems to be to get rid of May, present a hobson’s choice Brexit to the Commons, and then blame May’s deal on Remainers. Next they install one of Murdoch/the CIA’s favourites Johnson, Gove or Raab for the real takeover.
    I get the feeling that things have gone wrong, however. The opposition parties have been surprisingly solid in opposition to May’s deal while many Tories have refused to back down. On top of that there is a backlash among the public against Brexit, as well as the failure to destroy Corbyn politically. Plus of course May’s monumental incompetence and lack of electoral appeal.
    I don’t know where this will end up. Interesting times.

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    • I find your thinking inside out. Brexit wasn’t meant to happen and the Americans didn’t want us to leave, but they can live with any option (we are replaceable at the European table). You seem to have swallowed the ERG’s evil machinations line. They (ERG) are a group of disparate people, who by and large aren’t Atlanticists, they are more likely to be libertarians or nationalists, the main body of MPs from all parties, those who would call themselves centrists, are far more likely to be Atlanticists, people like Ruth Smeeth. They would never break with NATO and are happy for us to platform American nuclear weapons and follow American foreign policy.
      From where I’m standing it’s people like you who empower those who would keep us a client to American interests because of your political naivety…..pro remain propagandists can twist you round their metaphorical fingers.

  5. tonyopmoc says

    I find it hard to work out, whether Theresa May is an idiot or a genius. She has however managed to p1ss off, absolutely Everyone, on all political sides, and is still our Prime Minister. This is an extremely rare skill, and has managed to stimulate some fantastic honest writing, for the first time in years, from “journalists”, and some “politicians”.

    For the first time in years, it has been worth reading The Guardian, and The Daily Mail.

    I will try and give a few quotes

    “F*** knows. I’m past caring. It’s like the living dead in here’: Cabinet minister ‘captures mood of the nation’ on Brexit in foul-mouthed quote read out on air by Newsnight’s political editor”

    “The sense of despair around today’s vote continued when Emily Maitlis told minister Tobias Ellwood: ‘You’re putting back on the table a horse so dead, flogged to death, it’s practically a glue stick.’ ”

    Marina Hyde of The Guardian, is especially worth reading

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/29/tory-leadership-contest-brexit-conservative-party

    Meanwhile Theresa May is still there, and the Days are Counting Down to a Full Blown No Deal Exit.

    Whilst it is like a complex game of chess, maybe that was “Queen” Theresa May’s (probably subconscious objective) all the time.

    Maybe she actually believes in the concept of Democracy, and thought she would get her own back, for being forced to read, against her will (I could see her shaking), the complete load of bollocks re The Skripals.

    She ain’t thick.

    The game is not over yet.

    Give the girl a break

    Few men could take such stress.

    Tony

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    • Refraktor says

      More like the days are counting down to a revocation of Article 50. This is where the deadlock leads and she knows it. The aim is to engineer a cross party betrayal of the brexit vote and so exempt either of the main two political parties from electoral slaughter. Treason May. Authoritarian and war criminal.

  6. Mucho says

    Brexit. Another Zionist led divide and rule operation. Announced by David Cameron PM (Zionist).
    They have no intention of leaving at the moment. They have had three years to prepare and if they had any INTENTION of leaving, we would be seeing all manner of things happening which simply are not being done. We would see upgrades and staffing changes etc at the borders, new signs, new road layouts especially Calais. We would see new accounting systems being implemented, nationwide updates for businesses to implement with a sound idea of what to expect. They should and could be organised, if they had any intention of leaving. Where is the intent? Where are the visible signs that it is going ahead? They would be selling us a story of new horizons, a new Britain emerging, but they are not doing that.
    There will be one of two outcomes:
    Brexit – massive fuck up, no real preparation, years of problems for negligible gains. Supposedly anti-establishment Brexit just strengthens power of UK establishment, the real root of the UK’s problems. UK divided for years to come. Having said that, Brexit could realistically serve to weaken the establishment in the long term because it puts one chain around the UK’s neck instead of two (UK establishment and EU are chains of power), meaning the UK would only have to cut one chain to theoretically make itself truly free, an opportunity we get every four or five years. They will not want to take that risk, so why would they? They won’t.
    No Brexit – MOD and army already prepping for this, as has been announced, riots v possible following 10 years of austerity, divisive media, Tommy Robinson (Zionist asset), Farage etc. The perfect storm. UK divided for years to come.
    All of this has been engineered to be this way. We have the celebrity themed “deal or no deal” heated climax to contend with, all the thrill of the funfair, with Parliament doing a great job of legitimising it all and adding to the drama. If they wanted to do Brexit well and properly, it is in their power and it is their duty to do a lot more than they have. But they do not have any intention of doing it (at least from what we can see them doing) and if it does go ahead, all we are being told about and all anyone can predict is how a monumental fuck up is incoming

    Very interesting Brexit interview with Dr Paul Craig Roberts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9otn_5LVQq8
    Tommy Robinson the Zionist Asset Proof – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZn721uOWLM

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  7. Threedawgs says

    I commented earlier, but it didn’t show up?

  8. Glasshopper says

    Meanwhile The Guardian’s CIF has entrenched it’s position as a Safe Space for sneering slippery types to look down their snouts at the plebs for voting the “wrong” way, and being “hoodwinked” by evil Russians.

    One of the pleasures of Brexit has been to watch the daft hissy fit of hysterical Guardianistas unfold since June 2016.

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  9. Theresa May is employed for one purpose – to get ‘her’ deal passed?
    Brexit was employed for multi purposes, none of which was any intention to share power through democratic process. Nor is UE an intention to share power via democratic process.
    There is a front end to the technocratic roll-out that employs crisis actors to play out the semblance of a process of communication, struggle or contest – but either the outcome is rigged, or both outcomes are to the same ends – but also that the timing of the process is part of undermining the current order for the purpose of reconfiguring it to a new order or indeed tightening the rack.
    I happened to walk through the City of London today after normal working hours spills the multitude to their destinations or to fill and spill out of pubs and bars where the noise of release into chat mode and a beer was – I thought – remarkable.
    Then reading through the comments felt like a similar noise – a place of personal release and relief from the constraints of other social restraints or demands.

    I watched The Commons in action last night – going through the motions of its desire to reclaim the ‘brexit’ process from the ‘May Queen’ – though surely she is essentially supported and directed in her speech and actions by powerful lobbies – who may include US and EU top insiders.

    The background of who called this and why or for what is not something I see much touched on but I did read a book recently from Truepublica that touched into this called Brexi – A Corporate Coup D’Etat:
    https://truepublica.org.uk/books/brexit-a-corporate-coup-detat/
    Populism is a handy source of energy supply – especially after priming the pump. If it was not so cynically exploited it would be praised as democracy. There are still those who give worth-ship to the idea of representing the will of the People – who yet strive in a totally outmanoeuvred system in which their eventual ‘consent’ is already effectively predetermined.

    For my part the era of the ‘Deal’ is trumping any political process of genuine communication via shadow-drafted transfers of pre-structured power to offshore courts and lawyers, and incrementally shifting regulatory structures over a range of seemingly ‘good’ or non political ‘needs’ that then work a global top down system of control.

    Broad spectrum dominance isn’t really about the US Military – excepting insofar as the USAsset is employed as a particular function for the subjugation and control of humanity under a predator class.

    I know why I wanted OUT of the EU – in terms of my desire for regional, national and international politics of a genuine consent and not of astroturfed consensus under ‘expert’ elites who alone can tell us what the goat’s entrails means – but who in any case are filtered by mainstreaming into the narrative dictate by monkeys who devolved from human beings.

    But there is NO framework by which to question our primary active (glo-cabalist) cultural assumptions which are embedded in SEEMINGLY scientific thinking – that we are generally more deeply and identity-invested in than the Trojans were in their Sacred Horse.

    Everyone thinks WITHIN the framing of their reality paradigm excepting the few who fall off the edge of its model as a result of challenging its presumptions.

    I really do not want UK out of the EU and straight into subjection as an IsraUs ‘trade partner’ – with regard to the simply appalling lack of standards and protections of the US.

    The EU is on the same trajectory and simply a different region but at least maintains some resistance to the likes of GM – and some allegiance to the precautionary principle.

    The Walrus and the Carpenter poem comes to mind with regard to the oysters fate here.

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  10. Jules Moules says

    “I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. I’ve seen Boris Johnson spaffing public money over the shoulder of Gove. I’ve watched Jess Phillips’ face light up, like a Thebian sea-cabbage, as she perused the menu in the subsidised canteen. And I’ve seen Chris Grayling gently fall off the end of a deserted rail platform.

    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.”

    T May (Replicant)

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    • Jen says

      At least Roy Batty lasted his full three years.

  11. Francis Lee says

    The beauty of the UK Constitution is that it is unwritten. Which in effect means that we don’t have a genuine constitution as there are no written and established rules of procedure. Governments should be subordinate to constitution, but in the UK the ‘constitution’ such as it is, is subordinate to the government. It should not be forgotten that in the UK we have an unelected head of state, Queen Elizabeth, an unelected second chamber (the House of Lords) and a two-party, first-past-the-post cartel in the Lower House (House of Commons) whereby governments are always elected by a minority of the electorate. Hmmm the claim of democracy seems to stretch credulity to breaking point.

    Personally I blame Cromwell for not wiping out the whole Royal entourage, and even more the traitor Fairfax for bringing back Charles the Second from France to sit on the English throne. We should have taken a leaf out of the Frenchies book and made the revolution complete.

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    • Francis Lee, I have a French friend from many years ago, who lives in Nice, and he sent me a video, of an extemely mild peaceful protest of a few locals (maybe 100) wearing yellow jackets, and bearing flags in a central square in Nice. It seemed there were more press photographers and police there. His friend had only been there for less than 5 minutes. All he had done was chain his bike up, and was viciously attacked by The French Police, and Arrested, and later this year, has his court date. He is charged with rebellion. Very little of what has been going on in France appears in any mainstream media or on TV.

      I find this situation rather scary, and feel inhibited from visiting my friend in Nice, and have no plans to travel to Paris.

      I would rather not have a revolution in The UK. I am not into blood and innocent people having their heads kicked in, by fascists working for the government.

      I prefer the rule of law.

      So far, I have reasonable confidence in the integrity of most of the British Police, but very little in the UK Government and politicians, and would like to be able to vote them out.

      Tony

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    • Ken Kenn says

      Quite and it is the height of cheek to accuse Speaker Bercow of utilising archane rules to prevent the same old song being sung for a third time in the House.

      May and her government have hidden behind the Throne for three years with Royal prerogatives and Henry the Eighth laws and if not for private subject ( Gina Miller ) going to Court Parliament may well have not discussed things at all.

      What all the fuss has been about is the declining numbers of the electorate who vote for the Tory party historically.

      They rarely represented big cities and towns but represent the Shires. There are a lot of Shires in England.

      This unfortunately a playing out of an English Parliament Cameron threatened Scotland with during the Scottish Independence vote and good old Gordon held hands with the Tory idiot who gave us an EU referendum he ( and Brown ) thought they could win purely by media spin. He then ran way instantly as quick as a boy who had broken a window. Brown lost Labour thirty odd seats in Scotland.

      UKIP were always mistitled it should have been called EIP – as in English Independence Party as that is all and ever have represented.

      No one anywhere else than the Tories and UKIP gave a stuff about the EU 3 years plus ago ( except UKIP )but now it is a Tory party internal fight that the other parties and the country has been dragged into.

      If we believe the media then all that will matter in a GE is an MPs stand on Brexit. Yes it will be important but the Domestic policies and the question of reversing austerity will play very big role.

      The MSM will choose to stand on that terrain as they do not like Corbyn who will bring their little world down and about time too.

      The TIG ers seem to be playing the Second 11 now that the DUP are rowing back for now.

      The trouble for Labour and Corbyn is that some inside his party are against his version of ending austerity.

      Note carefully these anti anti austerity MPs don’t argue on policy as it would reveal what their own policies are to the electorate which are basically similar to a genuinely centre/right Tory.

      Intersting times all in all.

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    • Estaugh says

      Our constitution is indeed written, but unlike the yankee rush-job of 1776?, it took its time to fall into place. Natural growth describes it nicely. Key manuscripts can be found at ukgov.co.uk; I think that will get you there. Key docs. to pull out, (in pdf.), are, for starters, Magna Carta, (1215), Petition of Rights, (1626), Declaration of Rights, and the subsequent Bill o’Rights (1688/9). The Act of Union, (1701), Various Acts concerningTreason, House of Lords judgements; the list goes on. To abbreviate , No man is above the Law, albeit a parliament, or a king.—– The “Head of State is, (technically), elected; (see Coronation Oath) and is under oath to fulfil contract. —- Our parliament is in breach of its mandate, and in all cases is simply the mouthpiece by which our governonce of occupation, (i.e. The EU), passes its decrees and dictats. —– If you have never tested Article 61 of the Magna Carta,(1215), I advise you to do so, because, in this ‘phony war’ episode of the story, it has been working a treat, and I haven’t paid a ‘statuary’ fine in years. —- My take on this show is that constitutional crisis demand constitutional remedy: and that, my friend includes every man-jack native on these islands taking a direct part in the proceedings. —– EU ‘law’ does not apply in the UK, has never and can ever. —– Brexit/remain are but technicalities; Sovereignty is the real issue here. The corporate powers must not be allowed primacy over the “Sovereign” peoples will.

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    • Roberto says

      Royalist rule may mean that you end up with a dud every once in a while, but the advantages of continuity, structure and stability outweigh the procedure of dragging in someone every few years according to the whims of an ignorant public swayed by the latest cultural fads and scandals but mainly by the hope of spending someone else’s money, the defect that was first noted in the Athenian democracy, along with the observation that all democracy seems to end in tyranny, whether the tyranny of the masses or some particular actor. The outcome of a revolution does seem to invariably result in the elevation of a tyrant and the ruin of the masses that so eagerly supported him in his usually murderous endeavours to eradicate the object of their envy.
      Unfortunately these unfortunate masses also come to realise that everyone else’s money is actually their own, the government spends at 10% efficiency while it creates an aristocracy of people with no manners, and the next bumbling idiot/stooge that will ‘change everything’ and make it right is brought forth by a few unknowns in the backroom that actually do run things, only to continue with the same rotten mess.
      I do agree that the lack of a constitution is a good thing; rather than attempting to define everything that one is allowed to do, the common law, continually evolving, defines what is naughty, by cultural evolution and tradition. Now what would help is to have a procedure to shrink the catalogue of offenses, or at least put in place a policy stating that no new law will be passed without removing an obsolete or just plain silly one.

      • Makropulos says

        “….an ignorant public swayed by the latest cultural fads and scandals but mainly by the hope of spending someone else’s money…”

        The public are not as ignorant as the media make out – and it is the media’s aim to induce cynicism and despair. And as for that old patronising chestnut about “someone else’s money”, government is always about how to spend public funds. As always there is this assumption that individuals exist in some kind of solipsistic vacuum where they create their own world. Which automatically leads to that blase assumption that the rich deserve to be rich and the poor deserve to be poor.

  12. There is a basic misunderstanding with Brexit. In reality it was not Britain, or rather, the British Working Class, that decided to leave the EU. On the contrary, it was the Establishment and the political elites of Britain and the EU that LEFT, UNDERMINED AND DESTROYED the European Union by using it, undemocratically, illegally and treacherously, as a back door and fake alibi to swamp the labour markets with cheap labor from the new Eastern regions of the EU and the world. This was a blatant breach of the original aims and agreements of the European Union. That is why the British were right in voting for Brexit and they are the ones that are upholding the true European Union project and long term aims. That is why Labour, the party of traitors that opened the doors to mass uncontrolled migration and created this situation, cannot decide its policy, as the core of its supporters were the core of Brexit. That is why too, the ‘SNPee’ cannot call another Indyref (as they threaten to do and would like to do), as many of the supporters of Scottish independence were protesting against the deteriorated conditions of the labour market caused by immigration and, thus, voted for Brexit too. The British Establishment, mainly anti-Brexit, gave the reins of the Brexit campaign to their own fake Brexiteers. People like Boris, that could be denigrated as jesters, to scuttle a popular vote that was against immigration. Since then, they have been doing all they can to sabotage Brexit or modify it in such a way that it will not be Brexit. However, they are afraid that, by undermining democracy in such a brutal way, they could provoke a true ‘people’s’ reaction… a reaction that might not be another ‘referendum’…!!!

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    • wardropper says

      Not quite.
      There was always a strong undercurrent of ordinary British people who had sensed, or even seen very clearly, the fundamental corruption at the heart of the EU as it has become today. The EU was, of course, a good idea from many points of view, but the people who control it are the same people who control everything else which is thoroughly rotten in the western world. The modern “working class” is not as ignorant as many suppose. The Internet has seen to that, thank heaven.

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      • The EU was sold, without mentioning it, as a kind socialist organisation that could save the day and compete with the Soviet Union and the USA. People thought that the very fact of the union could even out the ‘rough’ edges and drag all towards more socialism and progress. The collapse of the USSR, changed the whole situation, dragging instead the working classes towards a liberal ‘union’ and their own destruction and reverting their lives to the XIX Century, through mass uncontrolled migration, delocalisation, unfair competition, etc… Internet is helping, indeed, to create resistance and, possibly, to create a teleproletarian or electroproletarian (eproletarian) but, especially after the ‘unsuccessful’ revolts of the Arab world, it is still to be seen if that could be enough.

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        • Estaugh says

          I cannot remember any socialist organisation ; ‘saving the day’, but I am aware of an FCO bending over backwards to fund those for the entry into the EEC, during the premiership of E. Heath, a Tory. If you imagine that Bliar was inspired by genuine socialist principles! ????? He wasn’t. Both Bliar and Heath received the ‘Charlemagne Prize’. Heath by blackmail, Bliar by pure greed. With that said, I object to being characterised as a ‘eproletarian’, or any some such descriptive, laid upon me by a personna presented and designed to sound authoritative. I am not a class, I am a man. I am a man born within an sovereign jurisdiction, which accedes to its subjects inherent, (or God given), rights, and demands some reasonable duties. —– If man was free to communicate, without fear of prosecution, the internet would already be obsolete. And, BTW, the EU was already being outed as the fraud it is looong before the ‘collapse’ of the SU. I give, for example:- Frere-Smith.

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  13. King Kong says

    Perfidious Albion on the knees. Delicious!

  14. tonyopmoc says

    With extracts from the website theyworkforyou and the daily express (apologies for that). Are links no longer allowed here?, I wrote the following words. The ones in quotes are not mine. The others are. I try and obey the rules.

    It’s a sad state of affairs, that almost the only MP, that has any integrity, so far as The Law is concerned with regards to BREXIT, is a person I completely disagree with regards to most of his political views on UK foreign policy with regards to War, and many aspects of his views on social policy.

    “Almost always voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas”

    “Consistently voted for the Iraq war”

    “Consistently voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system ”

    “Almost always voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the “bedroom tax”)

    “Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices”

    “Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability”

    However – I do agree with him on this (and on some other issues)

    “Bill Cash CONFRONTS Theresa May on ‘UNLAWFUL’ Brexit delay – ‘publish legal advice’ ”

    Tony

  15. Yr Hen Gof says

    I find it curious how we all readily accept that the Tories have debased just about everything they’ve touched, yet continue to assume that the ballot is uncorrupted.
    These are gangsters, democracy means nothing to them, nor their intimate bedfellows in the secret intelligence services. They wouldn’t hesitate to rig ballots and it takes surprisingly few votes to swing a few critical seats.
    I’d far rather assume that they are as a matter of course stuffing ballot boxes, or whatever else might be done to achieve the desired result.
    .

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  16. tonyopmoc says

    It’s a sad state of affairs, that almost the only MP, that has any integrity, so far as The Law is concerned with regards to BREXIT, is a person I completely disagree with regards to most of his political views on UK foreign policy with regards to War, and many aspects of his views on social policy.

    “Almost always voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas”

    “Consistently voted for the Iraq war”

    “Consistently voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system ”

    “Almost always voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the “bedroom tax”)

    “Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices”

    “Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability”

    However – I do agree with him on this (and on some other issues)

    “Bill Cash CONFRONTS Theresa May on ‘UNLAWFUL’ Brexit delay – ‘publish legal advice’ ”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1106037/brexit-news-latest-pmqs-today-live-theresa-may-sir-bill-cash-legal-advice-delay-extension

    Tony

  17. remember kronstadt says

    the tory party, albeit rich, is in dire need of youth and a leader who can be both reliable and a magnet – dominic raab

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    • James Connolly says

      I doubt raab’s thatcherism on steroids would be magnetic to anybody but plutocrats and some of the conservatives’ hard right elderly membership.

    • Geoff D says

      You Must be joking, the same raab who thinks the only reason people use food banks is because they have a cash flow problem, and the same imbecile that has only just realised that Dover is the main arterial route for exports, you couldn’t make it up, yea he would be fine.

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  18. K Ford says

    On Boris Johnson –

    “A man who betrays his family will betray his country”

  19. Only one thing seems completely certain. No matter which Tory freak replaces May or if she stays on, whether they completely balls up Brexit or just mostly balls it up, everything will be done to cast them in the best possible light and Corbyn in the worst possible light, up to and beyond the next election.

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    • Grafter says

      Almost time for Scotland to divest itself from Tweedle Dum/Tweedle Dee, Tory and Labour sham “democratic” parties. This circus has gone on far too long.

      • A compelling narrative back in 2014, when Labour was complicit in the Torirs’ austerity scam and the independence movement was boldly led by a maverick sceptical of the neocon establishment. That was the year of golden opportunity..

  20. bob says

    It appears TreasonMay has unilaterally decided that the UK is not leaving the eu on 29th March.
    As I understand it a Statutory Instrument was laid on Monday 25th March but has NOT been voted on as is the usual occurence in both the HoC and HoL.

    It appears that our consttution and parliamentary processes can be overridden at ease by this evil dictatorial PM – via a letter to the european council.This letter takes presidence over UK law. Domestic law is not now aligned with eu/ international law. Her so called resignation after a ‘deal’ is passed is yet more fillibustering. What if a ‘deal’ isn’t secured – is she going to hang around longer??

    This Government is acting beyond its authority. There is now no sovereignty in the UK – sovereignty lies with the people – the Queen fails to uphold our constitution and protect the people. Only John Redwood and Bill Cash have raised this in parliament and been roundly ignored.

    The british regime is unconstituional and acting illegally – it is a government of occupation.

    THIS IS TREASON AND NOW A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS AS NEITHER THE QUEEN NOR PARLIAMENT IS ACTING IN THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE and is allowing a Foreign Organisation to run the country.

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  21. crank says

    Will the Tories hold off on the GE until Corbyn has been further smeared and/or forcibly removed? Or will they just fix the vote?
    -They will try anything I think. Civil war probably. What happened to the boundary changes BTW?
    Will the increasing attempts to dismantle the very idea of Brexit be successful?
    Is Brexit ever going to actually happen?

    -I think that BigB and others on here have made the case that sovereignty (in the form of militrary command) has already slipped away quietly to mainland Europe. The manopoly of violence that is the state, is no longer to be held by British parliament-monarchy. The fundamental role of the state is ‘defence of the realm’, and although it could be argued that we have lived in an American led empire since 1945, there clearly are geopolitical re-alignments taking place.
    The farce in Westminster is not the failure that it is portrayed as in my opinion. The whole of UK society has become integrated into the EU system over 40 years, so to pull out is only ever going to be massively disruptive. How can this work politically? Like so many things that face us today, we are presented with a choice that undermines democracy : either make the choice that is principled and suffer the consequences or fudge it, kick the can down the road, to hell with the consequences that will be worse later on. After the 2008 crash, there was an imperative to face the reality that our economies were hostage to a fraudulent system of finance and speculation, and that debt would sink us. Instead of a root and branch re-write of banking and monetary policy, the PTB whacked a huge plaster on the whole thing, and have now built a much bigger bubble, with no avenues of survival once it bursts. The same with climate change. Scientists say we have to reduce emissions to zero within just a few years. There is no way of doing this without seriously reducing living standards and life expectancy all around the world. It is the same with respect to the energy and resource decline….and so on.
    We live in the time of the bitter medicine that shows the inability of democratic representative politics to take the very hard decision to swallow. The vote goes to those who can supposedly promise something ‘better’ tomorrow, so what happens when the options narrow to only something worse than today? i.e. a totalitarian European superstate vs. a chaotic broken no-deal society ?
    Brexit is the end of the EU as it has been. It will drag on and disintegrate into a centralised despotism, revolution or a fragmented, hardened nationalism and war.

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    • BigB says

      Crank

      I did make that case: the UK ceased to be a nation state and no one noticed. As Bob put above: we are now an occupied protectorate under EU/NATO suzerainty – effectively under the civil/military occupation of a foreign potentate. If anyone thinks this is mere hyperbole or melodramatic rhetoric: try taking it to your MP or MEP for them to represent further up the hierarchical foodchain of pseudo-validation. The secret apex predators that actually exercise decision making are not listening. The Constitutional and democratic coup d’etat was run through the Cabinet Office: whose policy it has been since 1948. It was announced as a ‘fait accomplis’ by our new Foreign Minister Mogherini at the Munich Security Conference. This was the completion of the vision of the founding fathers of the Fatherland, sorry, EU ‘Superpower’. It may or may not have started out the way: but that is what it has become – the Fourth Reich of the Franco-German Federation…represented all the plenipotentiary way to the UNSC.

      800 years of Constitutional Common Law and inalienable rights spaffed up the wall of history, not with a bang …but a whimper. But we never had a written Constitution – says everyone lip-synch parroting Keunssberg …we don’t now.

      Please don’t anyone mention Jeremy Corbyn as a credible person, let alone political leader, in my presence ever again. This has been nothing but High Treason by the political classes, and their basement gimp chattering classes.

      But who enabled this sorry state. We did. When a pseudo-million plus Owen fucking Jones walk like programmable drones to the beat of the BIS/ECB/Wall St/City drum. Every time we fall for the politically perpetrated chaos seeking Order, Order! The ayes/noes have it. Unlock! Unlock what but further chaos. Keep the fucking doors locked I say. Keep em in there: just don’t let them vote on anything ever again.

      I realise I am talking to myself: but unless the de-sovereigntised, de-legitimised, de-politicised People take full responsibility back into their rightful hands (Magna Carta and the Constitution are unrepealable contracts, in perpetuity – if we ever want to enact that. Statutes and Tony fucking Blair’s SIs or Henry VIII clauses do not and cannot supervene the Great Charter. If the Queen, the current sitting tenant Monarch, will not protect the Constitution – which is her sworn duty – she can fuck off back to Sax-Coburg so we can give the plenipotentiary power invested in the Crown – not the monarch – to someone who will. As we have done six times before.)

      A bit of disruptive chaos and our inculcated quasi-genetic received conditioning kicks algorithmically in: like good little Skinnerian operant conditioned lab rats. They have us in a cage we self-confirm the key to every day. Cue Billy Corgan…

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      • Anna Sandfield says

        You’re definitely not talking to yourself, BigB. I absolutely agree with you. Keep chipping away at the trusters and eventually you’ll make a enough of an impact for at least some of them to switch off the BBC. It’s not like our (non) representatives haven’t made a monumental arsewipe of the entire Brexit affair, (not divorce) for people to finally see that our constitution has gone to tit. Then wait for the elite and it’s media poodles to blame the next and imminent financial crash on ‘uneducated’ populist plebs.

      • Toby says

        I’m listening, BigB, and thus have become acquainted with UK Column and John Bingley, and learned a number of important things I did not know before. Primary among them is that the UK has a written constitution and that the govt. (is it really a government?) and crown are in breach of it. This is treason as I understand it, unless someone more informed than me can prove otherwise. If this reading of events is sound, then the people are now at war with their ‘government’ and their ‘monarch’ even if we don’t know it in sufficient numbers. It looks like we may not know it in sufficient numbers for a very long time, if ever.

        This was always going to be a long battle – between elitist mendacity/power-lust and people-power/democracy – and is anyway a constant tension in any nation/state, but what makes this iteration of it particularly troublesome and worrying is the complicity of almost all media outlets and the zombie-like acquiescence of The People. Who of us is free enough, informed enough and capable enough to fight in an organised and effective way? The so-called elites control all supply lines that matter.

        In my view, the only way we can wage war is via a combination of abstention – from consumerism – and constant, rigorous truth telling. We still have a sufficient freedom in the tools the internet offers to organise at general elections in whatever ways it takes to upset the process as far as possible in a sensible direction, i.e., towards more democracy, wiser economics (bio-physical, steady-state economics) and a modernised money system.

        Don’t feed the beast!

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        • BigB says

          Toby: how the Devil have you been!

          Well, as you know, the Queen – not wearing the the Crown – was dressed for Ascot for the State Opening. So, no: it is not a Government. So that lessens the charge of High Treason. I guess we can commute the sentence to life imprisonment ….same as they have bestowed upon us. 😉

          “No taxation without representation”. There is a whole range of measures to be employed once the Zombie Massif realise that switching off and disengaging from politics is no longer and option. I would say that is part of the ploy: but I believe that we are witnessing self-organised ineptitude on a gargantuan scale. The political elite alluded to on Wednesday’s Column are operating behind an idiocracy of trans-national disunity. Genuine representation and an actual Opposition could have stopped the Treason in its tracks. Parliament has to take the loins share of the blame. They have had advice, and John Bingley’s letter was circulated – but ignored. They are not fir for purpose and do not represent the Will of the People.

          As I said before: it is a Constitutional, Democratic and ‘Crisis of Legitimation’. I would personally like to see the removal of the Whips; the end of political parties; and true localised representation; with a move to at least AV+ with an elected bi-cameral Upper House. For a start toward direct inclusive democracy. From what we hear – via the Column – the arms lobby Judas bribers have already quit and gone to Brussels – because our regional Parliament is de-sovereign. Oh Bless: don’t let the revolving door hit you on the a**se on the way out!

          Getting rid of the City won’t be so easy, and we’ll never get the £4.5tn back it has cost us having them (SPERI Report). But I am probably too eager to run with this. I’ve only been waiting 40 years! We need to get a positive ideology together and out there as a viable alternative to actual anarchy. Which is what we have a form of already: elite anarchy. They think they can do anything. It’s up to us to make sure they can’t.

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          • Toby says

            Freudian typo of the Year: “loins share of the blame.” What a beaut! Made my morning.

            I’m not too bothered by the paper-money ‘wealth’ spaffed in whichever direction, far more so about that which it is said to represent: ecosystem and community health/wealth. For me, wealth and health should be treated as symbiotic synonyms, if you’ll excuse the overwrought semantics. One is meaningless without the other. Let them have their paper money and eat it. We are about the business of true wealth creation.

            • BigB says

              Works for me! Given what Freud was all about – psychosexual repression – it just about sums up the sad sorry State of affairs.

              Health and wealth are both inextricably linked to an actualised experiential of wholes – not the disconnected parts we are reduced to under capitalism. Disconnected parthood is automatically a state of dis-ease. Reducing everything to a collection of unrelated objects that are symbolically isolated, assigned a value, ranked by utility, monetised acordingly, and symbolically exchanged for general purpose paper (or virtual currency) is quite a silly process when reductio ad absurdum.

              Especially when the state of wholism PRECEDES the process of unequal – often enforced and violent – exchange. The entire capitalist ethos is a violent error pogrom that destroys the whole to create and fill a hole – that hole being the loss of completeness that precedes the processual destruction. A torture analogy I know – but again quite apposite!

              Good to have you back on board!

              • Toby says

                Reducing everything to a collection of unrelated objects that are symbolically isolated, assigned a value, ranked by utility, monetised acordingly, and symbolically exchanged for general purpose paper (or virtual currency) is quite a silly process when reductio ad absurdum.

                Well said. Although I note the ad absurdum part does in fact lead inexorably to a realisation that matter is not actually ‘there’, is in fact nothing but experienced information, etc. This then forces us to confront perception as the primary reality. Were we to be truly scientific about the reductio line of reasoning, we would end up with irreducible subjectivity, a point increasingly conceded by growing numbers of materialists and one very close to your hear.

                • BigB says

                  If I may point out my own reference to Skinner: if you need an analogy for capitalist exchange – look no further than the applied behaviourism of his Token Economy. We are being shaped – and I mean a wholly inclusive ‘we’: them and us – toward a certain set of algorithmic consumerist behavioural responses by our adherence to token or symbolic exchange. We exchange work/labour for token worthless paper (secondary reinforcement); to exchange for material rewards (primary reinforcement). In effect, we are repurchasing our work at a reduced unequal rate – because the capitalist infrastructure and superstructure have to be financed by our tax and profit from our labour. So we are cheapened and diminished by the process – but it is hard to live if you do not monetise our labour and engage in unequal exchange – but you get nice things, hopefully, and maybe a holiday. That’s our reward reinforcement for our attenuated sense of self-esteem.

                  Holism – profit = disenfranchised, passified, obedient parthood.

                  I actually overheard a guy recently say he had “produced a good set of behaviours” for his new role (in a ‘lab-cage’?). I didn’t know whether to punch him or hug him – which would have been a bit weird either way in a beer garden.

                  So them with the tokens have inordinate control. No tokens: no beer. But that control is chimerical. We had what we sold – in token exchange – in greater abundance before we entered into this dehumanising inequality relationship with the authority we gave away. In token exchange for material things. Which are “experienced information” = consciousness. Consciousness we had in negentropic abundance before we gave it away. For Tokens. With which we can never reclaim our antecedent holism.

                  When reduced to consciousness ‘exchange’ – the whole thing is reduced to the farce that it is. When we – as whole, thinking, feeling, intuitional and conscious beings – are reduced by secondary reinforcement and token exchange; we have become nothing more than applied psychological, operant conditioned lab rats. Because of the dialectical power acquired by being in authority – administering reward and punishment – all they have (with our authority: priced in Token exchange) to do is rattle the cage (the ‘Skinner Box’) and we rush to find out – by trial and error – which lever they want us to operate in return for the promise of more Tokens. That is my Brexit analogy.

                  And if it sounds like I hate the People – or the authoritarians – nothing could be further from the truth. We are ALL better than that. It is essentially bad education and a faulty systemic paradigm – which I am now calling the ‘Cartesian Error Protocols’ or ‘Capitalist Extinction Protocols’ – which lessens us ALL. This paradigm left meaningful relationships, equal exchange, feelings and humanity out of its systemic paradigm. As Skinner did. We are not reducible to ‘Black Box’ stimulus/response; reward/punishment; obedience/disobedience schedules of behaviour in the comsumerist planned society.

                  It does frustrate me though just how much like lab-rats we have diminished our holism to. And how vulnerable it makes us. If we want to evolve beyond this point, we need to change our psychology. Skinner is old hat. Radical behaviourism is dehumanising and ultimately rewards aggression and resentment. Bad news for everyone: pacified or pacifier; oppressor or oppressed. Add in the odd environmental crisis or two and: BOOM!

                  Organic process psychology, Dynamic Systems Theory (DST), embodied cognition are the way forward for our autonomous deschooling. And hopefully replace the capitalist applied psychological Big Society: with its BigDataSet of reinforcement schedule protocols. And BigSurveillnace – just so we know we are being observed. Don’t fancy that, much …but it is not inevitable yet.

                  • Toby says

                    @BigB: What a journey we conjured! Freud –> Skinner –> Cartesian Error Protocols –> Dynamic Systems Theory. If only the doing were as easy as the mapping.

                    Actually, it’s because the doing is so challenging that growth of consciousness towards maturity and love is worth the effort. As the saying went back during Occupy: We’re the ones we’re waiting for. And then there was: Respect existence or expect resistance. I always liked that one. Reminds me of veganism. 😉

                    @Binra: In my view and very briefly, there is only perception/interpretation, albeit in a consensus reality composed of points of evolving perspective, or unit-wholes of consciousness (you could say soul) that are themselves complexes within the larger-order complex, all netted together yet distinct in their qualities and vectors. I am not attracted to the ‘end-state’ or ‘goal’ of some featureless oneness; there’s just less complexity there to make existence rewardingly challenging, for example. Also, perception/interpretation need not be thought-based (depending on what we mean by thought here). E.g., dumb and blind people experience their reality without thought structures. Hard to imagine it, but again, it depends on what we mean by thought and structure.

                    I would also rather suggest that all states are true states: there is no ultimate state. An ant’s consciousness is as real and valid as God’s or Greater Consciousness’, just different in all sorts of ways. If we lose our mind to some form of delirium or insanity, it’s still a valid state, just not very aligned with consensus, and so on and so on. That’s not to say I’m some sort of absolute relativist (if that oxymoron makes any sense at all), I’m in favour of working towards multi-level, dynamic health, and supporting/encouraging other souls on their journey in that direction. I just don’t believe in notions of ‘better than’ and other forms of ‘objective’ superiority. It’s all grist for the mill in the end.

                    • @Toby No one lives this world but has some thought and image of self and world.
                      I do my best to communicate the ineffable – but no one is obliged to agree!
                      What we believe about our mind is the predicate of all else that follows – hence I use the term ‘split mind’ for a split off sense of subjective interaction with perceived reality – the result of which is an ‘experience’ that is equally valid with any and every other experience AS a result or feedback to the use the mind is being put – otherwise we could not ‘change our mind’.
                      However, what Mind is and does is not in any true sense editable by thought even if it is imagined and experienced as a conflicted investment or identity.
                      The role of terror in any tyranny is central for without it life in would no longer be-lived IN a body – but through it. Such moments of transcendence are not so uncommon, but the capacity of the mind of forgetting to interject in the very next instant is a highly developed skill.

                      So I don’t see human consciousness as a development of evolution in its own terms, so much as the logical development of predicate core beliefs. Our imaginary modelling of (our) reality is a creative function but the use of creative function to generate experience of limitation, conflict and division or separateness is the assignment of the creative to UNconscious beliefs that are hidden or denied as if by an act of power over fears induced BY conflict.

                      Insofar as it is our will to have our experience – no power can interfere. Why else would ‘Jesus stand at the door and knock’? but that acceptance is an act of willingness – and anything else is some form of smoke and mirrors.

                      Much that seemed self-protective and necessary in its timing can become obstructive to who we recognize ourselves to be and so of course there cannot be shame in our starting place – because a self-honesty that aligns to accept truth is the opening of a clean and whole mind to the readiness and willingness of our willingness to share it. And yes this is a gift in the giving and not a state of possession and control.
                      This indicates giving what you would have and hold, rather than giving what you wish to get rid off. Seeing others unworthy of love is the limit we set on ourselves – but not set on us by our creation in love. There is a true unconscious wellspring of unselfconscious spontaneity that may ‘leak’ through the cracks in our thought system and inspire a perception of a different order – that no longer obstructs and denies truth – which is already true – and has never gone anywhere. I don’t see we need concern ourself with what cannot be taught or learned because it is our inherence – but I do see the value in restoring sanity by noticing and releasing such blocks as are revealed through our willingness to wake and share in appreciation for being – from dreams that turned to nightmare. Blocks to our giving – and receiving truly. Or not getting in the way of a true fulfilment for a seeming but transient personal gratification – and entanglement.

                • I feel that it isn’t that matter is real or not, so much as it matters to us in terms of meanings given or accepted and shared.
                  Perceptions are results of an interpretive structure of thought within which we focus and hold a sense of identity or value in – ie it matters to us, we give attention, and align in intention within a movement of desire or fulfilment.
                  That we do so as if against our will is part of our interpretive self imaging taken for the ‘Implicate’ reality that it at best extends and reflects as experience, perspective, recognition.
                  Reality cannot be directly perceived. But recognition of Reality is Its Own Knowing.
                  What does it profit a man to gain a mind of interpreted reality if it costs knowing All That (he) Is?
                  In the world this is reversed; What is the profit of knowing if it costs possession of a world?
                  In truth to give what is First, first place is to let all else be added (find its place and timing).
                  While we cannot marketise (possess) or weaponise (control) knowing, we can realign to the purpose of waking from a substitute OF possession and control – and terrible and fearful subjection of ‘loss of self and power’.

                  The belief in a world OUTSIDE that causes US is the subjection to a dream we know not that we dream is the reversal of effect with cause – and adaptation to conditions that we unconsciously set up. But if all that is experienced is factually WITHIN Consciousness – that does NOT mean within the subjective sense of a ‘separate’ or segregated consciousness.

                  In order for Minds to SEEM separate, it has to split or fragment. ATTACK has to be played out ‘for real’. Very few under the idea of a material cause that evolves from molecular interactions as if humans are the apex of evolution, have a direct sense of the ‘devolution’ or stepping down of a Greater Consciousness – that remains the True Condition regardless the apparent conditions of a very specific focus of attention and intention. But then for the mind in its segregative self-differentiation, attack and separation ARE survival, salvation and the power to cope with or manage the reality of its reflected experience. (And coping in this sense is coherent experience within it framework and so all human experience of suffering is an expression of ‘coping’ or managing by ourself – until and unless the self-sense yields to the being – to the wholeness of being that is not absent just because it is misperceived or out of range of the active focus.

                  • BigB says

                    C’mon Binra: if there is ever to be a scientific revolution (Kuhn’s preferred term for the trite ‘paradigm shift’) that fully validates both objectivity and subjectivity: surely it needs to be philosophically precise?

                    I know this is not necessarily the place for that, and we both get tone policed for our use of language (not necessarily wrongly, I can admit to) – but this type of sentence needs clarifying. It does not make sense as it is:

                    “Reality cannot be directly perceived. But recognition of Reality is Its Own Knowing.”

                    If reality cannot be directly perceived: it is not reality. It’s noumenal, transcendent, or implicate – not made immanent or explicate.

                    For language to make any sense: for it to be a map to index experience to; and to anchor the abstraction and wild approximations it has become – the experience of the real has to map to the referent sign ‘real’ or signified ‘reality’. Otherwise there can be no transaction of meaning with an interpreter.

                    Which is hard enough when we are dealing with realities that are novel to the consensus reality.

                    Only perceptual reality can be real. A reality that is not directly perceived cannot be recognised. An unrecognised reality cannot be its ‘Own Knowing’.

                    Reality is only valid if it can be fully realised, fully actualised, and fully experiential. Language can only be valid if we can socially agree what sign, signified, and interpretation actually mean…AND map the experiential real – the non-linguistic real world experience – to the triadic sign structure. Then we can evolve a living language that actually means something – which will be quite a transformation from the array of private languages of the current atomised social order.

                    • You choose to use the term ‘reality’ for what I regard as a construct or interpreted outcome.
                      I understand and often use ‘reality’ or reality-experience for perception.
                      But as far as I am concerned Mind is the source and true location of meanings given to its relations, and so I locate reality in the Implicate and its reflected extension as the explicate – to use Bohm’s terms.
                      We are never going to arrive at a universal set of symbols and meanings and so we have to tune in to the context and usage of other people or other disciplines or cultures.

                      Whatever Reality is, (Big R) what we act from in acceptance and belief as true is real for us in that moment. The capacity to ‘live in the model’ without recognising anything true is what I often call the split mind and you may perhaps refer to as a Cartesian dichotomy. I prefer direct psychic-emotional reference than intellectual references.

                      However – as an example – false flag manipulations and false framing narratives along with narrative self-contradictions all feature as the basis of a loss of the reality of real relationship, communication and recognition, to the mind-matrix of managed identities.

                      However we use words to point to it – the fact of such a mental blindness – and its technocratic replacement of life by system-management and people processing operates the sacrifice of life to a kind of death wish. That is fundamentally driven by fear of life rising from the attempt to possess and control life. These two are the lie and the father of it.

                      Within specific situations matter is simply an integral aspect of tangible and visible experience. Is Everything ‘Spirit’ or form-aligned functional feedback? This is a matter of recognition at tat level or AS that awareness – or a matter of endless thinking that changes nothing – excepting perhaps to bias our own perceptions to distorted and filtered reality-beliefs WHILE such thinking is invested in by acting upon.

                      I take responsibility for my own consciousness in terms of reality-experience. That is I give experience all the meaning it has for me. Of course many of these meanings are acquired, inherited or learned as part of the collective or consensual reality agreements and definitions.
                      But the capacity to still the mind (regardless the noise) is the release into a quality of mind that is ‘given’ rather than manufactured personality. A gift of wholeness to – and of a shared reality – rather than a split minded conflict of ‘private realities’.

                      I see this as what is needed rather than all the king’s horses and all the king’s men
                      trying to put Humpty together again. Wholeness inspired rather than fear and lack-driven.
                      Vigilance against deceit can bypass all the shenanigans by focusing on whether we are buying into a fear and lack-driven reaction. And if so – why? – what is the believed pay off? Is it true?

                    • BigB says

                      Binra

                      To provide real world solutions to this universal discord of suffering: we need a diagnosis. That is that it is wholly a psycholinguistc psychosis we face. Real world felt, experiential suffering is caused by pseudo-world anti-realist linguistic fictions.

                      That the world is not wholly bad is testament to human spirit, and at least a modicum of grounding the quasi-real in the real. It also implies a degree or degrees of intensification and extremisation of the real, felt, emotional lived experiential into something more inimical – rewarding our bad behavioural trends with capital and material pseudo-wealth.

                      None of this happens outside consciousness. That should be apodeictic or totally beyond dispute – but it is metaphysically mystified by the ‘split mind’. Mind that is split by language – there is no other way to dichotomise experience. It cannot be physically split, it can only be metaphysically split. Metaphysics is entirely an externailsed ‘reality’ which is at best quasi-real. Consciousness cannot be ‘externalised’: that is not physically possible. It is only metaphysically possible and quasi-real.

                      Consciousness is psycholinguistically split from the real by quasi-real metaphysics. Which occurs fully within languages ‘universe of discourse’. The ontological mind becomes a quasi-mind. A quasi-mind that is further and further delimited psycholinguistically. The limits of language become the limits of consciousness and the limits of experience. The quasi-mind is a purely psycho-linguistic phenomena that has only a tangential relationship with the real. Which is both the cultural aporia and psychoses we face.

                      The quasi-mind can only split: it cannot heal. It can only reduce experience to material and metaphysical causes – because of this tangential relationship. It is alien to, and alienating of the real felt physically responsive world. It can only understand its own-created ‘ens-causa-sui’ problems – reductively caused – by reductively analysing parthood relations. Everything is split. Then the split is split. Language become a self-generating ontogenetic cancer and we are its victims.

                      To reclaim the experiential sign ‘real’ from this shitshow; and indexing the current lived experiential moment to the Sign – in an understandable creative process (interpretant semiosis) of peace requires a linguistic precision not yet capable within language. For language to evolve: we have to evolve. For us to evolve: language has to evolve. Evolve to include everything that language has dichotomised and delimited. Which is more or less everything.

                      So at some point: you and I and everyone else that uses language to explicate the word ‘real’ with the ‘real’ fully actualisable non-linguistic ‘reality’ – will have to coordinate the ‘real’ with the ‘real’ in an expressible living language. In order to shift and anchor the quasi-real in the real. It might take a millennia – but the ‘rectification of names’ into an evolutionary ontic medium is what needs to happen.

                      Language needs a new dimension – the Whole. All dichotomies are figurative and occur within, and are relative to the Whole. Every sign is a universal ‘transcendent signifier’. Dog, cat, tree indicate points of awareness within a diversified universal unity – the Whole. You and I are dichotomised: but integrally related within the Whole. That is the real as I see it!

                    • Dear BigB
                      I an uncovering a language that bridges ‘Heaven and Earth’, or Heart and mind, or Spirit and ego, as my own posting.
                      This is to say – I know the territory of which I describe or point to, directly – regardless of whether the symbols, terms and meanings find resonance with another.

                      Part of my point would be that both ‘voices’ are within us – but they are mutually exclusive in the same sense that Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.

                      I came in through the back door – that is experientially – and only developed articulations over a period of integration that spans four decades or so – but specifically NOT from the basis of fitting the new wine into the old mind. Rather a repurposing of the contents and abilities of the old mind – to the healing or reintegrative movement – in place of persisting in the segregative movement as if light can be brought into darkness rather than willingness to bring or open the darkness or ‘problem’ to the light.

                      So I am coming from a different place as part of growing this or better – allowing this consciousness to grow in me by not recoiling, rejecting or judging it.

                      The diagnosis is potentially dangerous – as is any definition that effectively persists the problem in a form that masks as a way to overcome or eradicate or escape the problem.
                      War on Problems will not only take all the energy given it – but will always grow to demand more, and grow a problem care delivery service or military Industrial complex and indeed a whole global Economy based on Problems that are thus too big to fail and are therefore deeply protected against resolution by the very defences mobilised as ‘War on Problem’.

                      “Don’t know mind” as the basic starting place is some willingness to yield what we think we know – and thus the problem as our thinking frames it – to stillness or open and receptive awareness. This effectively means that while we may have useful guidelines – every situation and circumstance is unique – and calls for listening anew.

                      While I may SEEM intellectual – I am not at all looking to feed or extend the way of generating intellectual ideas that are invested with hope and associated with the intent to apply them.
                      All sorts of good ideas become very destructive when applied to others, to society and to policies of ‘right-speak’ that become groupthink seeking its own sustainability – as if this new priesthood holds the answer that not joining with or supporting is seen as ‘part of the problem’ or indeed denialists and effectively marked for exclusion.

                      I don’t see it matter what anyone else thinks in terms of what works for them when what they bring to their relationships and endeavours is an honesty of being – a true presence.
                      But to an invested identity that ‘sustains’ itself on problems and a world of others who have to be ‘incentivised’ to compliance – conflict, limitation and frustration are not only inevitable but legitimate feedback by which to question where they are coming from.

                      The experience of a transcendent recognition is the gift that rises through a willingness to release or desist in the obstructions to its sharing.
                      So becoming aware of our own blocks is part of NOT feeding them – and this is often lost to the attempt to shift onto other people BEFORE we have in fact opened or accepted healing, wholeness or the love that knows itself without a word or thought being called on.

                      Instead of alighting in a grievance, we might alight in some joy for which we can extend some gratitude and let some of the isolated defences down to let some moment of a love that waits on recognition – not on time or circumstance.

                      Of course we notice we are not always willing and can then be more conscious as to the nature and consequence of our thought and act rather than just taking the ride of self-indulgence. (being taken for a ride).

                    • BTW There are a range of ‘reasons’ for the stuckness and usurping of science but new finds are ongoing and older but hidden history rediscovered. I see people like Gerald Pollack as reopening true science in the midst of what we thought we knew and the Dark Cosmology will eventually have to accept Plasma physics as scalar to all levels of manifest existence.
                      But the anthropomorphic reversal of cause and effect resists the recognition of true cause because it is deeply invested in the idea of cause projected away from the self – as the generating of an external ’cause’ that can be flagged (and attacked) instead of full self (disclosure).
                      The idea that the ‘terrain’ is the key factor rather than protagonists – be that Planetary gods or pathogens – is in the right direction. But ‘terrain’ is not just out there as scenery in which drama or actions unfold – but is living context or vibrational field.
                      In very crude terms it can be shown that vibrational frequency generates structure. The energetic qualities within the energetic quantities are the core information of which the form is an expression.
                      I expect we are discovering more about the nature of resonant nature of biological and molecular communication or indeed synchrony – by our increasing technological interferences.
                      This is itself an explication of the nature of doublethink as a jamming signal to truly shared idea. (Private or split minded miscreation).

      • Tim Jenkins says

        Despite all my rage, i’m no longer a rat in a cage, BigB and spend more time laughing with or@people.

        Have a like: if nothing other than for squeezing plenipotentiary in twice and ending with Billy ‘C’ 🙂

        1979 , another rhyme & reason for smashing pumpkins to save seeds and solve prostate problems & as a reminder of the ‘Winter of Discontent’, when i swore i would never in life, pay the British Brainwash Corporation,

        one penny . . . never have, never will.

        Anybody who finances in any way the BBC is clearly ignorant of Science,
        (inc. Attenborough !). Lovely photography David, shameful science, though . . .

      • Anticitizen one says

        Big B on the money again! Sums up the situation fantastically with a lawful remedy. You’re not talking to yourself, there’s probably 17.4m people feel the same.

  22. Emily Durron says

    The only thing the Brits are any good at is deluding themselves and lying. Just to take a few recent examples that spring to mind, they helped make Iraq a playground for jihadis. Likewise Libya, likewise Syria. They poisoned Sergei Skripal as a message to make sure everyone kept quiet about the laughable ‘Steele dossier’. David Kelly was murdered by the British state. Hilda Murrell was murdered by the British state. So was Willie Macrae. The UK actively supports Saudi Arabia in its murderous destruction of Yemen, and competes to sell the Saudis the most weapons.

    And all the time the propaganda machine keeps on turning and the BBC tells you how benevolent and wise the queen is and the Guardian tells you that the West is just like a kindly village policeman that only has the best intentions for everyone especially Venezuela and will eventually have to deal with villains Russia and China.

    ‘British democracy’ my arse. They are scum. Dirty scum. In 5-10 years it’s easily possible that all that’s left of the UK is England and Wales. Ha ha ha. Good.

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    • Maggie says

      OffG Why am I being told I am posting too quickly??? Are you mad? This was my first post today that you scrapped! It only took me all morning to compose.

      • Maggie says

        So, OffG, What did you di with my post? What was in it that your Moderator was so offended and incensed by? That we should scrap the Impotent Parasitic Monarchy and have a truly Socialist Government. One man one vote?

    • wardropper says

      We have to include in your list of things Brits are good at their ability to follow the whims of a Frump Clown US president (following a long row of previous specimens). But of course we all know that it is NOT, in fact, “the Brits” who do this, but the people who have usurped leadership and representation of the British people.

  23. Whoever is PM, still has to endorse Brexit. Corbyn is close to de-endorsing it, having been pushed by the membership and many of his MPs, but if there was a GE he would then have to re-endorse it.
    None of this is hard to understand. There was a referendum that both parties agreed to honour and the only way to honour that is to leave the EU. There’s nothing to stop us rejoining in the future, but there is no chance of a second referendum and a confirmatory referendum would be just as bad.
    MPs are majority remain, the people voted otherwise. This is about democracy not “changing our minds”….after 3 years of intense anti leave propaganda.

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    • Geoff D says

      Democracy? you truly believe it exists? we don’t even have so called ‘parliamentary democracy’ never mind democracy

  24. different frank says

    Maygabe says many things at many times. They are never true.

  25. John says

    British “democracy” is becoming a joke. Becoming? The nation that said to Ireland have your vote we will abide by it then kept hold of six counties. The nation that starved Bengal in the middle of ww2 just to bribe Greece. The nation that has starved hundreds of millions from America to Ireland to Africa, India and China. Yet the brits seem to think all those hundreds of millions died of love and hugs. The nation that still refuses to open up about operation Ajax in Iran. The nation that shot 14 people dead in Derry in full view of the worlds media then lied about it for 40+ years. The nation that allows its secret services to record babies and children being raped and killed just to blackmail some mps as opposed to jailing them. And the people still didn’t rise up! Britain has been a particularly sick and nasty joke for a few centuries now it’s just taking brits this long to catch up and some accept it but won’t and don’t want to do anything about it the other half either deny it or enjoy it. Sick nation sick people

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  26. Tim Jenkins says

    British democracy becoming a joke ? Lol

    British democracy became a joke back in the 80’s, when 55% of all votes cast, voted Liberal and yet Thatcher was re-elected, with a strong working majority in the Commons.
    Liberals had almost no representation and the 2 party system still ruled then & still does …

    Gerrymandering happened even long before the Scottish Devolution Referendum, but as all were so brilliantly manipulated by Murdoch on the Devolution vote & after his continuous designs & agenda for chaos & distraction, & after Leveson and Murdoch’s laughable statement in the High Courts, of his most “Humbling Moment”, you would be excused for thinking that some Official Body, might finally address his might & mighty hypocrisy and start talking >>>

    GOLAN HEIGHTS & GENIE ENERGY OIL & GAS ! ! !

    Not a peeps on my radar. !

    Riddle me that . . .

    See the problem ? ? ?

    Media Moguls manipulating minds: masses moronically memorising Murdoch’s “MAD MULLAHS”, moreover mesmerised by

    Tommy Robinson: therefore, you can forget about any Democracy.

    It never existed !

    This was why I upped & left in 1990, to checkout how the Swiss Political system is precisely manipulated, and how the Main/Fake stream media manipulates minds, within a referendum system, that is also inherently biased in the interests of Banks & Elites and secret governance of any society.

    Democracy ? hmmmm, right now, given the wealth of historic faked news & imagery & science, instilled in peoples’ minds, we are talking about an inter-generational trauma that will take decades to repair, if even humanly possible ? . . . democracy right now?

    Be careful what you wish for, because we are talking about a massive majority of dumbed down egotistically addicted narco-narcissistic consumers, as voters, that have been essentially clueless for over 100 years & badly brainwashed . . .

    Democracy: A Myth !

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    • John says

      Your last paragraph! Amazing! Spot on we do have a dumbed down egotistically addicted drugged up greedy consumers as citizens and they all hate the truth.

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      • Yarkob says

        i don’t think they’d hate the truth if it were explained to them gently, and with full context. some people are just a bit lazy. others are stone-cold and wilfully ignorant. still more have, as you say, been brainwashed

        • Maggie says

          ”Everybody” who relies on the British Brainwashing Corporation’s babysitter in the corner and the MSM presstitutes for truthful information is Lazy, Braindead and completely Befuddled. that is why there is such a cock up and why they will stand for anything.
          As my dear Mum always said, ”You can’t educate sheep, baa baa. They are simply awaiting their slaughter.”

  27. May is not saying she will ‘leave early’ if Her Deal is passed; she is saying she will stay on if it is not.

    It is obvious by now that neither May nor her party nor the opposition can be trusted to lead the country if and when they get through this mess.

    The reason we know this to be true is that they are not capable of doing so now.

    Indeed it could be argued that the only viable option is to revoke Article 50 outright. This can be done without the consent of the EU.

  28. Mick1357 says

    There is no credible alternative to this shower in Parliament at the moment. When you read how the Labour Party have treated some of their own recently including Jackie Walker, then I wouldn’t trust them to deliver any meaningful changes to bring about equality.

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  29. Fair dinkum says

    Schadenfreude.
    As the born to rule brigade get their knickers in a twist.

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  30. Jen says

    Erm, so what happens if May’s Brexit deal is rejected by MPs in her party <b<a third time? What part of the word “No” does the Prime Minister not understand?

    It looks as if the British government simply cannot avoid calling a general election despite doing all it can to stave off the possibility of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister.

    If the whole sorry mess were a TV comedy series or a series of skits performed on a TV comedy sketch show, audiences simply would not believe what they were watching. Fact is truly stranger than fiction.

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    • summitflyer says

      Throw in the Skripal affair and you have the likes of a Monty Python episode .LOL

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      • From living in Brazil and watching the political situation, and from observing closely the US and the UK, I conclude that we have only assumed that we have a democracy, but that democracy is something yet to be achieved. Once one realises this, you can stop trying to make something work, an idea, that is something that is in the future.

        As Summitflyer suggests, what we are seeing is a tragi-comedy. It is tragic because people’s lives are affected and because people take it seriously, but a quasi-comedy because there is the urge to celebrate and laugh, or even ridicule.

        We increasingly see that our leaders in power are ridiculous. They have a role of handling matters of State on behalf of The Power That Shall Not Be Mentioned that runs things for the time being. Our role is to see these patterns.

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        • Wilmers31 says

          I observe from Australia. It really is very simple:

          Democracy kaputt.
          We had peak democracy ….. don’t know.

          New election, another referendum, different dude as PM – and that will make the issues go away? You may laugh, but the laughter on the European continent is louder.

          Democracy is founded on the idea that a. the majority will make the right decision and b. those who would have liked a different decision put up with what the majority wanted and remain peaceful until next time.
          Democracy kaputt.

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          • Yarkob says

            ^^ this. a change of government won’t make the slightest difference to the shit show we are witnessing, but did it ever? probably make things infinitely worse, in fact. corbyn bumped off by SIS after winning GE by landslide; labour party expelling 75% of its members for fake antisemitism. boris johnson as tory leader. mmm. can’t wait..

    • Shardlake says

      I, for one, do not. With her track record of crossing her own red lines this lady is suspect in her motives and actions. Brexit is Brexit and red white and blue Brexit were vacuous statements specifically designed to obfuscate and mis-lead the British public.

      This Prime Minister is unable to think on her feet, which is a prime requisite for the position. Her answer to being asked what was the worst thing she had ever done replied ‘running through a farmer’s wheat field’. On the surface, it was a totally inane question but she was unable to deflect it with any conviction. She might have been better borrowing a Johnny Cash lyric ‘I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die!’.

      The EU negotiators certainly do not trust her, after all she assured them, and us, we would leave on March 29th. Where is the help for those that are ‘just about managing’ who are using food banks ? Taxes for the better off are cut and the number of billionaires has doubled on her watch. The EU leaders have had to diplomatically entertain this inept leader while she tried to separate and divide them from their resolve to stay together.

      I cannot think of any single thing she has done while she has held the highest office in this land that has benefited the nation as a whole.

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