243

Discuss: Julian Assange Arrested

This morning, officers of the Metropolitan police were invited into the Ecuadorian embassy by President Lenin Moreno. They proceeded to arrest WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, and literally drag him out of the building.

Arrest video:

The important facts of the case are as follows:

  • Julian Assange is not wanted for ANY CRIME, except skipping his bail. This carries a maximum sentence of 6 months under UK Law.
  • The Swedish authorities have dropped all their investigations of him for sexual assault. Read more on that here.
  • Assange has said, many times, that above all else he is avoiding being extradited to the US. US officials have, in the past, referenced the idea of assassinating him, and their intelligence services are known to use “enhanced interrogation” techniques (aka torture).
  • The UN has found, multiple times, that Assange’s detention was inhumane and illegal under international law.

Take a moment to imagine Assange was Chinese, Iranian, Russian. Any “enemy” nation.

Imagine a journalist had published leaked documents proving Vladimir Putin’s complicity in war crimes, imagine he had been hiding out in an embassy in Moscow for 8 years, despite the UN finding his detention to be “arbitrary” and calling on Russia to end his “deprivation of liberty”.

And then imagine a whole bunch of FSB officers carried him out like a hunting trophy, threw him in a van and drove him off to God know’s where.

How would our media cover that? Would they make jokes like this?

No. There would be outrage. There would be scorn from the “international community”. There would be sample chapters of Luke Harding’s latest book. The attitude to whistle blowers, WikiLeaks and the persecution of Julian Assange has always been a key test for the mainstream media’s claimed “values” of free speech, liberty and honesty. It is a test they have failed a million times over.

The Tories, and others political figures, have been quick to “congratulate” Ecuador on their decision:

This has been long time coming, with months of frenzied negotiation between the US and Ecuador occasionally showing on the surface. The Guardian’s totally false story linking Assange to Paul Manafort, and all the other “Russiagate” bullshit, was designed to further demonise Assange in the eyes of “The Resistance” and others of their ilk.

These deceived liberals will probably happily applaud the arrest of a journalist for simply telling the truth. These are dark times.

So the important questions become:

  • Will the US attempt to extradite him?
  • Will the Swedish prosecutor re-open the rape case, as has been hinted?
  • Will the media do their job properly? Or will they just publish more smear pieces?
  • Will Julian Assange ever be seen alive again?

This story is developing. Any updates will be posted as they arrive.

UPDATE:

WikiLeaks have announced that Assange was seized under a US extradition warrant:


Kit Knightly is co-editor of OffGuardian. The Guardian banned him from commenting. Twice. He used to write for fun, but now he's forced to out of a near-permanent sense of outrage.

Filed under: Assange Arrest, discussion threads, empire watch, featured, latest

by

Kit Knightly is co-editor of OffGuardian. The Guardian banned him from commenting. Twice. He used to write for fun, but now he's forced to out of a near-permanent sense of outrage.

avatar
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
harry stotle
Reader
harry stotle

I see the loathsome Jess Phillips is trying to make this an identity politics issue all over again (which is why she is on the front page of the Guardian, of course)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/14/julian-assange-case-makes-clear-womens-rights-secondary-political-games

For the expenses loving MP the treatment of Jualian Assange is all about the terrible harms inflicted on 2 women despite a mountain of compelling evidence suggesting he may have not have committed any crime at all (the first prosecutor didn’t think so, while concerns expressed by the women about an hiv test were subsequently inflated by their legal team into sexual assault charges).

Needless to say Jess is reticent about fabrications told by fellow party members which not only led to horrific wars but enriched those who told self evident lies, nor does Phillips touch on her party’s vital role in propping up the reputation of US neocons both before and after the killing started.

It goes without saying this ghastly women has nothing to say about the literally terrifying ordeal Assange has already been put through (with worse to come) nor does she seem very interested in the fact that a corrupt leader who is weak domestically has been bought off by US loans to act at their behest (the tried and trusted method employed by neocons that brings so much misery to the rest of the world).

It would go against every atom in my body to ever support the tories but if, at a general election, the only choice was between Phillips and a tory I would find it impossible to say who was the worst.

mark
Reader
mark

Labour, Tories, Liberals, just 3 cheeks of the same arse.
Like my old grandad used to say, they all piss in the same pot.
Don’t expect anything of Labour – they’re just as contemptible as the Tories.
Maybe in some ways, with people like Phillips, they are even more repulsive, if that is possible.
They are all vermin, absolute filth.
Voting is a complete waste of time, no, it’s worae than that.
It just gives a fig leaf of respectability to an openly corrupt, repressive, criminal regime.

Mark Record
Reader

Loading the Guardian on the web currently puts this story (link below) at the top right of the page.
Title- Failure to extradite Assange to Sweden would endorse ‘rape culture’, say women’s groups
Sub title- Campaigners fear rape allegations are being overlooked as US case against WikiLeaks co-founder takes centre stage.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/13/women-groups-say-extradite-julian-assange-to-sweden
The story is second in prominence only to a story of Teresa May being urged to quit.
Apparently, Sarah Green, co-director of End Violence Against Women says “He’s always benefited from his cult hero status, painting himself as a victim and being very righteous. Yet this is about rape, it’s what he is accused of. It’s extremely serious.”
Alarmingly it is also stated that “Further pressure came from Sweden itself, with one of the women who accused Assange of sexual assault calling for him to be extradited to the Scandinavian country, adding that she would still be prepared to testify in court.”
Are we really living in a world where a woman (or anyone else) can make an unsubstantiated claim about misconduct during a sexual engagement (that they have consented to), and this would stand up in a court of Law as adequate evidence for a conviction. This seems very far from “Beyond all reasonable doubt”.

mark
Reader
mark

One of the two women involved, who has a history of being “dumped”, published a detailed revenge guide for women recommending the use of false and malicious sexual allegations.

The CIA was planning to set him up with child pornography, but went for the bogus rape allegation instead.

From now on, who would risk being alone with a woman? – The Pence policy.

Mark Record
Reader

Funny that Assange isn’t famous for his history of rampaging sexual abuse prior to the American deep state wanting to extradite & torture him. Then just like when you’ve been waiting for a bus for ages, two accusations of sexual misconduct arrive at once.
Indeed, it is Jess Phillips who is making women’s issues a “political side salad” by ignoring the elephant in the room, that they are purely a smokescreen to excuse the extradition and torture of a journalist.
Does she not understand that the inappropriate-politicisation of women’s rights being used to imprison a dissident journalist, is not going to help further any genuine feminist cause.
She fails to consider that the allegations are being used to achieve something entirely different than serving justice to the two women involved and thereby completely destroys her own argument. Would she really be speaking about him if he were not a political dissident?

hegelsdass
Reader
hegelsdass

question is – who is he ?

falcemartello
Reader

Plain as daylight. Like I said dwell into the rabbit hole connect the dots or as Piarandello use to say
“Cosi e si vi pare.”
Like Iaid not much in the wikileaks files about the bastion of ME democracy (the colonial outpost known as ISRAEL” I would say to Mark Record and all the Assange pom pom queens
LARGEST WEALTH GAP SINCE THE GILDED AGE.
Pilger said it aptly on GOING UNDERGROUND RT.UK
”There are maybe a handfull of credible journalist”
BUY DECEPTION YOU MAT WAGE WAR. Rothschild motto par excellence”

Mark Record
Reader

Plain as daylight Wikileaks has received assistance from somebody Jewish. Well that was a remarkably shallow rabbit hole. And as for that that infamous old supporter of Neo-liberal Imperialism and militant Zionist (advocate of Assange too) Pilger. Well, join the dots and Pilger’s clearly the controlled opposition put there by Ikeanesque lizard shape shifters. Thanks for removing those scales from my eyes falcemartello.

Mark Record
Reader

So somebody from a wealthy family helped out Assange with some legal fees! Not just anybody but someone with Jewish family. What I really don’t understand is if the Jewish global conspiracy is so all powerful and all the Jews support Julian Assange, then why did they not get the global government (of which they so obviously in control) to simply drop all his bail charges. This way their friend Assange could have avoided being imprisoned in the Ecuadorian embassy for 7 or 8 years.
Or maybe someone philanthropic, who happened to be a wealthy Jew or was from a wealthy Jewish family, thought it would be a genuinely constructive idea to help out a truth telling journalist.
I have some wealthy Jewish friends, do you think that makes me a bad man too?

hegelsdass
Reader
hegelsdass

to Engineer Change – the Shapers need Cicerones….the elevation and collapse is only a facade – it confuses and divides – destroys – turmoil for the Mother Systems newest Panacea…a Cure of their making….for a disease of their making – and so comes the repair – in their Image.

Jinky
Reader
Jinky

I still consider him controlled opposition

justme
Reader
justme

Well, I don’t think Assange considers himself to be “controlled opposition”, and this is much more important to me than whether he is or is not manipulated by the western KGB analogs. What he has done speaks for itself.

falcemartello
Reader

Thats rite just like Howard Zinn was and Chomskey is today.
Remember I am an Antonio Gramsci disciple.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic
Gezzah Potts
Reader
Gezzah Potts

Mark Record: being with other like minded people – in person, helps break down our feelings of isolation and feeling ‘unhinged’. And its also good to get other people’s perspectives face to face. Youre not that far from London (South Coast?). Don’t know your politics, but I know there’s an Anarchist presence in the Brighton area, various left wing organisations, Environmental groups, Anti Austerity groups plus others that oppose the excesses of Neoliberalism and Militarism. Go with what you feel comfortable with. Good Luck….

Mark Record
Reader

I used to do quite a bit of political stuff in Brighton and while there I was once accused of being an Anarchist by the local police. Initially I took offence at the description but then people I was organising with explained that they were indeed Anarchists. They said because I opposed unjustifiable and unjust forms of authority, the police might have correctly labelling my political leanings. Whenever activists got decent sized groups organised into doing anything worthwhile, there would be a clash within between the Anarchists and Communists followed by endless argument over minute details of philosophy. It was fun though and maybe I should dip my toe back in the water there occasionally.

Estaugh
Reader
Estaugh

J wasn’t arrested, he was kidnapped.I can see ‘Ultra Virens all over this act: Acts are lawful or unlawful. Acts must accord with British SOVEREIGN law, something the natives of this nation has been denied for the last 50 years, since GB was shoe-horned into the EEC in 1972, by a simple majority vote in HOP of 8. ( About 1%) majority; and that following an extensive FCO financed campaign in favour of the union. In other words, fraudulent means were used by FCO to achieve the result. The use of fraud in lawmaking abolishes the legitimacy of a law, and such laws have NO lawful authority. The signing of the ‘Treaty of Maastricht’ is another example of the ongoing treason extent in GB at this time. I am not optimistic as to the ‘lawyers’ of Assange actually being able to think outside the box and actually challenge the present ‘governance of occupation’ on its lawful standing. The case is clearly politically motivated, and they are seeking to cover-up Crimes of State(s). **** ‘No one is above the Law’. Good of you to remind yourselves of this ‘Maxim’; this would include the ‘Body Politic’, the ‘Military’, the ‘Civil Institutions”, or even the ‘reigning Monarch. **** Just a reminder that ‘Article 61’ of the Magna Carta IS up and running, it IS by ‘Royal Command’, (ie, NOT a simple request), and it is high time that this pre-parliamentary enforcement clause be used to full extent. By comparison, article 50, being bandied around by the EU-ropy-ones is a corporate scribbled note complaining about the office tea- service.

Estaugh
Reader
Estaugh
falcemartello
Reader

I suggest people of interest view the recent episode of Going underground RTUK or Ru John Pilger tells it like it is and further more Jeffrey Robinson goes into a bit of legal dictum.
I would also suggest people dwell into the rabbit hole of Jullian Assange from his early years.
He was a free lance computer hacker and has worked for both British and US secret services in his early days was an analyst hacker for the NSA . Well established facts. Further more his legal team is owned and financed by Lord Rothschild.
Hence all is not what it seems.
Further more Julian did seek asylum in the Russian Federation but they would not touch him with a bar of soap. Speaks volumes to me.
POST SCRIPTUM; I acknowledge full heartedly that wikileaks has served the dying fourth estate well in investigative journalism but being the cynic from child birth I tend to be of the side of caution and me smells and anglo-zionist rat behind Julian Assange

FS
Reader
FS

Falcemartello. You’ve obviously hurt someone’s feelings, as some idiot has downvoted your factual comment.

‘No!’ they cry. ‘Let me have my heroes. Assange and Snowden are the good guys – not the limited hangouts who exactly conform to Cass Sunstein’s recipe for such. Let’s ignore all the uncomfortable details, like their endorsement for the untenable official narrative on 9/11. Let’s just dance to the mainstream media’s tune, closing our eyes to the strong likelihood that even if we’re contradicting the (absurdly caricatured and overplayed) message put out by MSM and the government, our dance is also being choreographed.’

Please let us have our moral high ground and our illusions.

falcemartello
Reader

@ FS the sad reality and the whole post modern cultural marxist to use d another terminological nefarious construct like ethnic cleansing and balkanisation. So i digress.
again as a an academic and a humanist . I will use my words lack of INTELLECTUAL HONESTY.
Historical truths . The Trial of Aristotle where he argues for his defense . For his own prosecution. Which proves my argument. How dellussional western society has always been and Socrates proved it himself
Who controls the narrative controls the construct.
Gianbattista Vico figured it in 1728 and we in the west still don’t get it . My oh my what sheep we have become.
The digital age has ruined critical thinking.
Simple facts of language
Ones religion does not make one a semite. For using simple logic one would then deduce that all catholics are Italian all Lutherans are Germanic and all Anglicans are Anglo-saxons,
Reason and LOgic we were all born with it which has been all thrown out with the bath water. How Skinnerean we have become in our dying western exceptionalism.
Artificial intelligence the greatest oxymoron of our times.
2 chez FS
Great Neapolitan expression
“Chi viva di speranze muore disperato ”
“He who lives in hope dies in desperation ”
Neapolitans the last bastion of western realism. and Gianbattista Vico proved it in 1726 read his book very enlightening.

Mark Record
Reader

You say “He was a free lance computer hacker and has worked for both British and US secret services in his early days was an analyst hacker for the NSA. Well established facts.”
Are these indeed established facts?
As an academic and a humanist, could you give these facts a credible reference?

Mark Record
Reader

It is what Assange now symbolises that is important. If he has done something funny a long long time ago, then what does that matter?
Many years ago I went out with a Woman who suffered from a personality disorder. Our relationship did not work out well and it took a while for me to figure out that there were issues (she did have a medical diagnosis I discovered). She was not a nasty person but her behaviour was often hurtful. Despite the high emotional cost incurred, I discovered how complex personality disorders are and the struggles that people with these disorders go through. It also caused me to spend a long time reflecting on my own behaviour and evaluate if there is such a thing as “normal”.
If as the Judge says, Julian suffers from a Narcissistic personality disorder, then I have even more respect for him than I had previously.
To do such a giant service to society as he has done, while struggling with a personality disorder, would be truly a remarkable thing for anybody to achieve. However I suspect the Judge was viewing things through there own distorted prism of reality.
We need to concentrate an the important mollifications of this case for other journalists if feel at this time.

falcemartello
Reader

@Mark Record
Did you not read my Post Scriptum.
Punto Uno: Why are Solicitors and Barristers connected to Lord Rothschild handling is legal status.
Punto Due: Analyse wikileaks and why the colonial outpost known as Israel get little mention or leaks about it.
Punto Tre: Balfour declaration and the colonial outpost known as Israel is well known fact to be a Rothschild construct.
Punto Quattro:Anglo-zionism predates Herzl.
I will quote Tolstoi once again
“HISTORY WOULD BE A WONDERFUL THING IF ONLY IT WERE TRUE”
GIORDANO BRUNO QUOTE ” HISTORY IS ALWAYS WRITTEN BY THE VICTORS AND NOT THE VANQUISHED”
GIANBATTISTA VICO QUOTE ” THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN ELITE CLASS”

Frankly Speaking
Reader
Frankly Speaking

@falcemartello
“Why are Solicitors and Barristers connected to Lord Rothschild handling is legal status.”

Has it never occured to you, and many others here, that the vast majority of people of Jewish faith are not engaged in some kind of global conspiracy???

Your earlier point that Assange may be a stooge and “anglo-zionist rat behind Julian Assange”. Well, he’s not exactly profited from it has he?

Occam’s razor:
Assange, using his skills and experience from his earlier days, prised open the secrecy around what he saw (and we see) as the utterly corrupt and evil rulers of this world, regardless of their nationality. religion, etc. He especially uncovered the mindboggling hypocrisy of the West. He was attacked for it. A decent noble was disgusted with what he saw and decided to help him financially and recruited legal people in support; their religion may have just happened to be Jewish. Period.

falcemartello
Reader

@Frankly Speaking
Julian Assange leaks was instrumental in bringing down Bear Stern Banking House.
Things are never black and white. As we debate about the sanctification of Assange we n the west are experiencing the largest wealth transfer and consolidation of wealth and power that surpasses the middle ages.
Further more not looking at the history and what wikileaks has produced very little about Israel. and for those of you using the jewish /semitic cannard I am also a serphardic jew and not blinded by ideology. I have mentioned it b4 and will mention it again. Assange like many things in the information overdrive of our post modern era are all distractions from what is really happening.
The bestiality that has been inflicted to the people of the maghreb and the middle east is unforgivable. one must look at the greater picture and what is there end game . What I mean by them is the oligarchical class and their plutocrats.
not one individual has been made to account for from the EU Nato or the Clinton regime for the crimes against humanity with regards to yugoslavia. Bush and Blair regime war crimes as well and docius in fundem the colonial outpost known as Israel all their crimes from 47 to this day so hang on to ur hero. Me being of the left side of the political spectrum loathe Chomsky and loathed Zinn for most of us in Naples new they were controlled opposition. Why would the Rothschilds be so interested in backing him because the Rothschilds have a great history of human benevolence.
just look they have achieved their goal we are debating about Assange and not about the theft of our childrens and childrens future.
Classic Kansis city shift look over to ur right while I rob u from the rite.
Again I will quote Pirandello “Cosi e si vi pare”
I also said that he had contributed to the dying fourth estate in investigative journalism because it brought to us the bare face paradox of man and society lack of governance and the fruad western culture and civilisation has become.
Just like Trump he has taken the veil off the farce and now their gangsterism is in our face because we no longer have an Obama or a Blair with their smooth linguistics which was pure cover of modern day fascism.

mark
Reader
mark

This is an old chestnut.
When Wikileaks was first set up, it concentrated on countries like Kenya (extra judicial killings) and the former Soviet Asian Republics (repression, corruption) and so was suspected of being a NED/ CIA type regime change front.
If this was the case, it would have carried on demonising Washington’s enemies in the style of other bogus NGOs like Amnesty International, Medecins Sans Frontieres and Human Rights Watch, occasionally issuing some token criticism of the US to give it a fig leaf of impartiality.
Instead, the revelations did real damage in showing the true ugly face of the US empire and its satellites. War crimes, atrocities, involvement in terrorism, blanket surveillance, Vault 7, torture, repression, abuse of power and general hypocrisy. These things would otherwise have remained concealed.

It’s healthy to remain sceptical with controlled opposition like Democracy Now and Counterpunch around, but I can’t see Wikileaks in that category.

falcemartello
Reader

@Mark Record
Mossad saying
BY DECEPTION YOU MAY WAGE WAR
Intellectual honesty is dead and buried and people in the west post modern world live through only selfish emotive constructs.
Try to at least use factual historical veracity when debating someone instead of ones personal selfish endeavours.
As I have contextually and demonstrated indisputable facts to my arguments
I suggest you view Snordster from South Africa on youtube maybe that might enlighten you and further more being an academic and law student and Masters in Nursing I have well founded background on research and historical analysis and a Gramscian disciple
Hope you may find the truth for that will only bring humanity freedom from the worst wealth gap since the Gilded age.

Mark Record
Reader

Howdy Falcemartello,
Perhaps the Russian government didn’t want Assange because he has previously been critical of them?
In what way are Julian’s solicitors connected with the Lord Rothschild? How would this prove he is a fake anyhow?
I am not 100% convinced you have “contextually and demonstrated indisputable facts to (your) arguments”.
Admittedly it is hard to understand Assange’s inner motivation for so vociferously revealing dark state secrets. It is hard to imagine how such actions would not eventually result in an authoritarian backlash similar to that which he is currently experiencing.
Maybe he is a Mossad agent. However it does feel a stretch to see how the Mossad are going to further their cause (for instance annexing the Gazza strip) by getting a guy to fake being a prisoner in the Ecuadorian embassy for 7 or 8 years. That would certainly be a very cunning deception in my book!
Say for sake of argument that he is a plant. How will it help any of us if we allow him to be extradited and set a precedent for persecuting journalists?
Maybe he has a narcissistic personality disorder and he is motivated entirely by a continuous demand for attention to give himself a transient self identity. This does not make the facts he has revealed any less valuable does it?
Incidently, I thought the modern Israel project got kicked off by the Christian Zionists. I doubt it is a generally accepted fact that Israel is a Rothschild construct. Presumably you realise that biblical Israel predates the Rothschild banking business that started in the 1760’s?
I do feel it is particularly unhelpful to view everything from the perspective of it all being a Jewish conspiracy.
POST SCRIPTUM
Falcemartello, how would you like me to use the factual historical veracity of my personal selfish endeavours. This sounds like a sentence generated by a ChomskyBot! I do like the sound of it though (;-})

Mark Record
Reader

I went to Parliament yesterday with a “Free Assange” placard .
Nobody else was there protesting his cause! Not one other person!
An international news team were delighted to find me because they had been searching in vain for people to interview about his case. They wanted to know where the rest of my group was who were championing Julian’s cause. Ummm.
There was a impressive army biker noise protest for a significant proportion of the time I was there.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/12/thousands-retired-soldiers-protest-central-london-motorbikes/amp/
They were protesting the charging of Soldier F for Bloody Sunday murders. I don’t now enough details to have a firm position on their protest. Obviously, Bloody Sunday was a crime but it is hard to imagine it was entirely the responsibility of Soldier F.
I had mixed exchanges with the army protesters. A surprising proportion of them spoke to me in support of Assange.
There was a hilarious situation when a group of climate protesters insisted the army biker noise protesters switch off their engines and stop making pollution.
Although a number of people in the general public acknowledged support, there were an unpleasant number of others asking me how I could stand for a “treasonous rapist!.
Soldier F had support from the noisiest protest I have ever experienced outside parliament.
Assange had virtually no support whatsoever.
Those who doubt the smears about Julian apparently lack the courage to challenge the narrative of our main stream media. The story is now quickly slipping from the news cycle, soon to be forgotten.

Frankly Speaking
Reader
Frankly Speaking

Well done Mark, you are very honourable soul.

John
Reader
John

Ill give you my opinion on the army protestors. For some forty plus years these soldiers knew exactly what they did and knew it was wrong, they were promised immunity from prosecution for being good little androi…. I mean soldiers and are now pissed off so they now stand around outside family vigils about murdered loved ones giving it big licks claiming the families involved are either IRA or liars. They are neither. And usually in those god awful southern English accents spouting the usual MSM narrative on the north of Ireland i.e defending catholic’s, and then just being stuck in the middle of an ancient religious dispute (believe that you’ll believe anything) These people these soldiers are everything that’s wrong with the western world. Narcissists. Collateral damage would have been a british video if this were some thirty years ago or more not an American apache gunship video

Gezzah Potts
Reader
Gezzah Potts

Mark Record: at least YOU did something Mark. Its a start, aye. The vile comments about ‘treasonous rapist’ from those passersby shows the effect propaganda has on people. Its sad, and yes, its bloody frustrating. To paraphrase John Pilger, I wonder how many of them have had their brains ‘pickled in the formaldehyde of identity politics’. I suspect quite a few. And yes, fear does keep people from raising their heads above the parapets and raising hell – that’s a big one as to why people stay away from protests. I went to the Rally in Melbourne yesterday coz I feel such disgust at what has been done to Julian Assange, and I also see very clearly where all this is heading: think Orwell 1984. Orwell was right in his prediction by the way. Mark – there must be Wikileaks or Assange support groups in England, even if only the big cities like London. Do an internet search – link up with others, but good on you for getting off your backside.

Mark Record
Reader

Thanks Gezzah,
Good to hear stuff was happening in Melbourne yesterday.
Travelling up to London felt like being in a surreal film the last couple of days.
There were papers on every train seat (evening standard) headlining with Assange’s image and a title something like “Criminal Finally Faces Justice”.
I’m starting to wonder if is just that I am out of my mind.
There was a man outside No10 for a while yesterday with “End MI5 written on a piece of cardboard.
He paced up and down in a flustered manner and I wondered if we might both be completely unhinged.
You are correct. I do need to look out some other people do do stuff with in the UK.

justme
Reader
justme

“He paced up and down in a flustered manner and I wondered if we might both be completely unhinged.”.

Yes, this is what their whole point is.

The subconcious/implicit message is: to report about crimes committed by the state is a “crime”, while murder of civilians, if done by the state, is not.

Demonstarting outside of No10 however, especially on your own, is probably a sure way to lose one’s job.

UreKismet
Reader
UreKismet

It is apparent that the amerikans have hit the same wall as they already knocked themselves out at during the Oblamblam era when they reluctantly gave up and temporarily dropped the charges against Mr Assange.

Englanders have been too preoccuppied with extraneous european matters to ‘reform’ their judicial system meaning that the odds of amerika successfully winning an extradition case against Mr Assange are probably no better than 50-50 with a massive downside in that if Mr Assange does resist extradition, amerika Inc will have shot its bolt for ever.

If after a lengthy quasi trial in england, Mr Assange were to succeed,then in the eyes of the world he will be judged to have been found ‘not guilty.’ Then as long as he resists the temptation to visit Disneyworld or one of the other temples to the tackiness of amerikana, they will have buckley’s chance of ever slotting him up at all.

So now we see a rerun of the original strategy, pressuring Sweden into reviving the original nonsense case which utilizes the draconian ‘european arrest warrant’ (I guess Mr Assange is definitely a brexiter now).
As these are fastracked with less opportunity for judicial oversight, amerika will whisk Mr Assange off to Sweden where even if the put up sex charges fail, getting the man into amerika will be a doddle as the extradition treaty between Sweden and amerika is barely more difficult than getting a euro arrest warrant between Sweden & england.

We can be sure that the Swede pols will be shitting themselves as this situation is definitely lose:lose, or zero sum or whatever hinky little metaphor scum currently use to describe a situation where every outcome is bad.
Yer actual ‘Swede in the street’ who has been exposed to nearly 10 years of this overwrought nonsense where lies peddled as gospel have been mostly shown to be typical pol deceit, will not be impressed at the thought of having to relive a humiliating chapter that revealed their political and comprador class to be satraps of amerikan bullies. The swede pols know this and they will be looking for a way out. In addition we don’t know if amerikans have ensured they have kept an agent of influence in place within the Swedish prosecution service to take over from the now retired, thoroughly duplicitous Marianne Nye.
If they haven’t they are truly fucked since the case appears to have no substance other than the testimony of a self admitted vengeful human who publically advocated lying and deceit as a primary method for ‘getting back’ at former lovers.
imo those supporters of Mr Assange who can by way of their financial or geographic situation, provide assistance to Julian should first of all concentrate on destroying any attempt to revive the Swedish nonsense.

nwwoods
Reader
nwwoods

The statute of limitations on the Swedish matter runs out next year. Assange will remain in custody in the UK and the US for considerably longer than a year. The US case is weak and they know it, but they will get their revenge by torturing him for years in custody with isolation, sensory deprivation, temperature extremes, and lack of timely medical attention as they did Manning, which incidentally was ruled by the UN to constitute torture.

mark
Reader
mark

What a pity Blair isn’t in Belmarsh now instead of JA.
But he gets to enjoy his £80 million fortune, 7 mansions and huge property empire, while organs like The Guardian run puff pieces on him so he can pontificate on issues like Brexit.
Some Clown World we live in.

Paul
Reader
Paul

Is JA in the Special Unit at Belmarsh, pending Category A status? It’s a prison within a prison and usually reserved for terrorists or organised crime gangsters who may escape. Even your meagre access to daylight is a corridor under an anti helicopter net. Searches happen constantly; surveillance is 24/7. Solitary confinement and reduced food await the bolshie as well as a list of sanctions John Bolton would be proud of; no access to your prison account so you can’t buy anything for example. Restricted visits behind bars and reduced to the minimum. All visitors to have security clearance – which can take 6-9 weeks. Restricted access to a phone call. 24 hour lights in the cell. Restricted and monitored interaction with other prisoners. Forget the family funeral; security couldn’t possibly take the risk! It’s hard to imagine what danger JA poses or how he could fit the criteria for Category A prisoners.

British Justice
Reader
British Justice

Assange didn’t accuse anyone of anything.

He gave the world the unequivocal evidence of colossal crimes continually committed by the US and their lackeys against defenseless people and nations .. Crimes committed under the name of ‘Freedom’ and ‘Democracy’.

But British and American press found that ‘Assange eats like a wolf’ makes better headlines than exposing the hypocrisy of the whole system of governance and compliant media.

The vile mainstream press has never stopped attacking and vilifying the messenger.

Now a British judge is accusing Assange of ‘Narcism’ and ordered his arrest.

‘Thought Crimes’ against the state?
What a sick joke the system has become!

falcemartello
Reader

But never Israeli /IDF State crimes against humanity

Paul
Reader
Paul

The icing on the cake is the surreal interview of HilRy Clinton in closely zipped up soft leathers saying it’s necessary for him to pay the price for his crimes. Chilling. If you ever doubted she isn’t a thoroughly nasty piece of work, watch the video.

Gezzah Potts
Reader
Gezzah Potts

Paul…. I think I’d rather eat maggot cheese from Sardinia than watch a video of that truly psychopathic evil woman. The West is in a very sad, sick state.

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

Gezzah Potts
Reader
Gezzah Potts

Milosevic: thank you so much Milo for the clip. Very thoughtful of you😫. I’ll go and have a fag and strong coffee first then watch it. Unfortunately am out of maggot cheese at present….

John2o2o
Reader
John2o2o

I never doubted it after the sickening “we came, we saw, he died”.

George Cornell
Reader
George Cornell

And the harridan, wicked witch of the West “Cackle, cackle”

Shardlake
Reader
Shardlake

Wasn’t she the lady who mis-remembered being shot at as she disembarked from an aircraft during the Bosnian conflict ? I’m sure as Hell remember if I had been shot at in a war zone ! How could anyone mis-remember an occasion like that ?

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

tonyopmoc
Reader

I think it really important, during his latest incarceration in a British Jail, that Julian spends some time with a nice jail warden, I have known a couple for a long time. The one in the Scrubs is one of the nicest, kindest blokes I have ever met. We meet quite regularly. He even invited us to his party in Shepherd’s Bush, and some famous people turned up.

I don’t know any of them at Wandsworth, when Julian Assange was jailed for a couple of weeks in 2010, at the same time as John Anthony Hill – who was in there for many months – who no one had heard of – except those who had seen his video “Ripple Effect”

I’ve never met him either – but at least the jury found him not guilty, and since then he has been a free man, so far as I know. I hope he is well.

“7/7 Ripple Effect 2 by JAH – Muad’ Dib”

John Anthony Hill and Julian Assange both look much the same now

Gurus and Truth Tellers.

They let me go, cos I’d had a shave, and my wife complained.

“Why have you Arrested My Husband?”

I hadn’t done anything wrong either.

Tony

PS Message to Off-Guardian. I worked in IT, for many years. Don’t fix it, when it ain’t bust. I like the layout of your website, and the fact that you can’t edit your own comments. I’ve even been thinking about sending you a Tenner. (£10)

Keep it up guys – you are doing a magnificent job.

George Cornell
Reader
George Cornell

http://www.friatider.se/greeting-julian-assange

Some insights into Anna Ardin, the Assange accuser.

JudyJ
Reader
JudyJ

A “bunny boiler” if ever there was!

mark
Reader
mark

“A woman has been raped by Assange and another woman has been subject to a series of sexual assaults by him………..they deserve to have their day in court………..he needs to be extradited to face the charges and face justice in Sweden……….”

Emily Thornberry and similar right on, politically correct female liberals and faux leftists.

All this for a sex smear set up with no charges and no more to back it up than having sex without a condom.

hauptmanngurski
Reader

The women in question did not even want that to be made a case. One of them, Anna Ardin, has come out in a tweet that there should be no investigation and he should not be sent to the US.

John2o2o
Reader
John2o2o

I think it worth saying that under UK law there exists a “presumption of innocence”. That is to say, a person is innocent in the eyes of the law until proven guilty.

So Julian is guilty only of skipping bail.

It is worth also saying that this case highlights the grave dangers of the current popular attitude that anyone making an allegation of sexual misconduct “must be believed”.

I have never thought this a reasonable attitude and as a matter of principle I never believe allegations of sexual misconduct that cannot be evidenced other than by an accusation.

I very strongly believe that the accusation of rape made against Julian is false. Julian was at that time already a figure hated and feared by powerful repressive governments and regimes the world over. This includes the regimes of Barack Obama and David Cameron.

They are I believe a crude and malicious smear designed to prejudice public opinion against Julian. I do not believe them. I will never believe them.

mark
Reader
mark

The Metoo campaign apparently think it’s perfectly acceptable to make false sex allegations against men who have slighted or offended them in some way. Any men who are sacked, jailed, or have their lives ruined are just collateral damage in a worthy cause.

This will blow up in their faces. We will end up with sex segregation more rigid than anything you see in the moslem world.

Already, you get people like Pence who will never be alone with a woman. This is spreading throughout wider society into everyday work places, factories and offices. Men don’t want to train or mentor women, work with women, talk to women, or even look at women at work unless absolutely unavoidable. It isn’t worth the risk, when people have been sacked for looking at someone, or coughing at someone “in a sexist way.” You get the spreading Men Going Their Own Way movement, where men avoid women entirely apart from casual relationships on their own terms. The result is a burgeoning population of Cat Ladies and men devoting their lives to beer and football, with no families and no children being born.

On one level, it would be a welcome development if the “rape” case was resurrected. This hoax would be exposed for what it is and laughed out of court, and there would be some comeback for the women who enabled this. But of course that is just a ruse to spirit him away for the rest of his life into the 2.3 million strong US Gulag, after a “trial” in a secret court, with secret charges and secret evidence..

Paul
Reader
Paul

Mark, you do come up with some riveting stuff. Love it.

hauptmanngurski
Reader

I have seen a tweet by Anna Ardin who does not want the Swedish case re-opened.

comite espartaco
Reader

She is ‘right’… after all, it is you and leftists like you and Assange, the Immigrationist Feminazis of this world, that have created the conditions for these kind of allegations to thrive and prosper, even if fake. Now you have to suffer the dire consequences…!!! It’s called POETIC JUSTICE…!!!

John
Reader
John

I see plenty of left wing groups supporting assange I erneut very few right wingers bar tucker (I used to be a liberal with a bow tie a few years ago) Carlson. Left wingers have no powers in Europe it’s all centrists or center left all the way to right wing. Whether you like it or not

Paul
Reader
Paul

I thought the idea was to get Sweden to resurrect the original complaint and extradite him there because they were the first to ask. It would relieve the UK ‘Government’ from having to agree to what might be a very unpopular request by the US to torture him for the rest of his life for snitching on them. It might also give him a better chance of having the request refused on the basis Sweden has a stronger moral compass than Britain and is possibly less frightened of Trump, as they weren’t involved in the attempt to unseat him (courtesy Mr Steele and his old employers).

harry stotle
Reader
harry stotle

Her parliamentary colleagues need to face charges – they are rsponsible for mass murder while Assange is only guilty of exposing what they have done.

Of course we can only speculate as to why Thornberry goes AWOL whenever the matter of investigating Iraq comes up.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11656/emily_thornberry/islington_south_and_finsbury/divisions?policy=975

But as disingenuous as she is Thornberry pales into insignificance compared to the massive integrity fail exhibited by Killary – ‘its not about punishing journalism’, lol.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/apr/12/hillary-clinton-julian-assange-must-answer-for-what-he-has-done-video

milosevic
Reader
milosevic

wardropper
Reader
wardropper

For such a pushy, arrogant woman, I’d say Killary sounds extremely uncertain of her ground here…
It’s like, “Well, I think … although the charges were dropped … well, I think we have to … it’s not about punishing journalism … it’s erm … about … well, we have to look at what he has done … and he has to erm … although the charges were dropper … erm … answer for what he has done …”
If only a reporter would just ask her, “What, exactly, has he done, apart from revealing the most iniquitous wrong-doing ever perpetrated by the American authorities?” … “Are you embarrassed, Mrs. Clinton?”

tonyopmoc
Reader

I don’t care what if any organisation Julian Assange, may or may not have been working for in his youth, and may be even working for now. I think I have read most of the stories, and some of them I know are true ( I did at the time read the Swedish tweets – from the 2 girls, which were also published in Aftonbladet (the equivalent of The Sun during the invite to the next party) “Think pretty blonde girl – sheer delight -He’s staying at my place – we’ve arranged a BBQ for him”

I know about all that, and I know that he has still not been charged with any offence, except skipping bail.

I don’t care if he is or was a spy. It’s quite obviously a hazardous occupation, and I think it extremely likely that he is now being thrown to the wolves, and may not survive it.

At the end of the day, he is a human being who has displayed great courage and integrity, at revealing the most despicable war crimes.

What I find really depressing and upsetting, is not the MSM. It’s obvious they were all long ago bought and paid for by the war criminals.

It is the performance of our British Members of Paliament and our English Judiciary – not just on Assange, but on BREXIT too.

It is as if, I in England, am living in NAZI Germany in 1939 or the USSR during the Trotsky or Stalin purges.

I never thought it would come to this.

But here we are.

“If you tolerate this, then your children will be next.”

Tony

John
Reader
John

The purges aren’t as scary as you’ve been made out to believe and Trotsky was a spy it’s been well known he was a Jew spy sent to undermine the revolution. He was a rat

John2o2o
Reader
John2o2o

“I don’t care if he is or was a spy.”

He is not a spy Tony. He was never a spy.

Badger Down
Reader
Badger Down

Assange was, however, an Australian citizen. The Australian government is unfit.

Mucho
Reader
Mucho

Brendon O’ Connell is an Aussie who did time for his efforts exposing Zionist and criminal activities in Western Australia. Interviewed here by fellow Aussie researcher Max Igan.

Gezzah Potts
Reader
Gezzah Potts

Mucho: greatly appreciate this link, aye. I’d never heard of Max Igan or his show ‘surviving the matrix’ until now. I have a vague recollection of the name Brendon O’Connell. Jesus, Mary & Joseph, what an eye opener this was. Pretty stunned at what I just heard – thank you. The World indeed is a theatre, and a bloody surreal one at that.

British Justice
Reader
British Justice

Great comment from tonyopmoc:

“.. he [Assange] is a human being who has displayed great courage and integrity, at revealing the most despicable war crimes.

What I find really depressing and upsetting, is not the MSM. It’s obvious they were all long ago bought and paid for by the war criminals.

It is the performance of our British Members of Paliament and our English Judiciary ..”

Also, thanks Kit Knightly for exposing the fine expose.

George Cornell
Reader
George Cornell

His offence is that of embarrassment. He exposed and embarrassed the American warmongering, mass murdering, oil-thieving, regime-changing, “democracy” exporting, wedding bombing machine.

Ramdan
Reader
Ramdan

Orwell’s 1984 is set up in Britain…he call it socialist..it was the ideoogy of the day…though you could argue that he simply skipped the “national”(socialism) part…..
He saw it coming….though more accurate would be to say that he saw trough the masks back them, he knew what was going on backstage.

John
Reader
John

Orwell was a grass more British military intelligence and spent his time during the Spanish civil war ratting out his comrades and writing instead of fighting. Why people treat him like some kind of truth teller is beyond me

TFS
Reader
TFS

TILL I’M BLUE IN THE FACE.

I’ll say it again. You have the means to affect change.

Off Guardian and its ilk have the chance to co-ordinate a response and show those of similar mind how to make their outrage felt.

As a start, change you browser search engine from Google to Duckduckgo (its a start).

There is nothing that the regime of Donald Trump fears most, than the loss of a $.

Make MLK and Ghandi Proud.

hauptmanngurski
Reader

We are having elections in Australia on the 18th May. The politicians are forced to talk to people.

Greg Barns, Solicitor in Tasmania, is right when he says the NYT is tainted as a political participant. Their darling David Brooks said in 2011 on PBS ‘this time we have no Mitterrand to help us”, referring to the unrest in Egypt at the time.

So – US colluded with French President Mitterrand. That must have been for the German re-unification where the French oil company received my family’s land in East Berlin for nix.

John2o2o
Reader
John2o2o

You mean the regime of John Bolton. Trump does as he is told.

hauptmanngurski
Reader

All Presidents do as told.

No matter what they say before – once in office they are turned.

tonyopmoc
Reader

Or use TOR – a Direct Link to the people in The US Inteligence agencies who designed it.

comite espartaco
Reader

The best thing of all this affair is that the hardened Bolivarians of Ecuador, with President Lenin Moreno at their front, are the ones that have ended it, in the only way it should have ended, even the first day. Today the Bolivarian immigrationist dream and its allied asinine causes, have become what they always were, a nightmare, only supported by the ill informed, witless and racist left around the world. Ecuador was fooled by its own ignorance and the mirages of support from a deranged left in the West, but today rectifies the situation by handing over this outlaw to the proper authorities. Well done Ecuador…!!!

hauptmanngurski
Reader

Had Ecuadorians received their full compensation from the US oil companies who soiled their lands, they would have had money to build up their country. The US likes to keep others poor so they are more obedient.

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

So this is what a dumb *uck looks like… Capable only of watching the brainwasher in the corner.

”COINCIDENCE: Ecuador receives $4.2 billion IMF loan weeks before Julian Assange arrest
April 11 2019”

What possible motive could Ecuador have for allowing British police into the Embassy?
As they say, follow the money.

In February, Ecuador signed a $4.2 billion financing deal with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as the Latin American country tackles a widening budget deficit and ballooning debt levels.

Also, President Lenin Moreno confirmed that the country will receive an additional $6 billion in loans from various institutions, including the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank.
The maturities on these loans extend up to 30 years and interest rates will not top five percent.
Despite several budget cuts that critics say is austerity, the President promised that most of the funds will be allocated to social investment, including the growing number of police officers and covering the annual bonus given to retirees……
What interesting timing to say the least!

Ecuador housed Julian Assange for several years, and then about two months later the Ecuador government says to the rest of the world: Come! Come! You can arrest a journalist and publisher!
Just be sure to give us money!
It stinks.
http://economiccollapsenews.com/2019/04/11/coincidence-ecuador-receives-4-2-billion-imf-loan-weeks-before-julian-assange-arrest/

mark
Reader
mark

Looks like the hasbara factory has put another shift on.

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

Nice one Mark… they are so bloody obvious.

Ramdan
Reader
Ramdan

Espartaco, it was clcar and isipublic domain that Lenin Moreno IS NOT a BOLIVARIAN and he never was. actually, by the 2 week in the goverment the party he betrayed broke up with him.
Everyone knows that Lenin Moreno is another genuflex (even from a wheelchair!!).
The rest merits no comments.

comite espartaco
Reader

Anyone minimally informed would know that Lenin Moreno was the VICE PRESIDENT of President Correa for almost 7 years, nominated by Correa’s party to the presidency and that the feud between Correa and Lenin Moreno is a consequence of Moreno’s efforts to stop the indefinite re-election of presidents and, therefore, convert the country in a Monarchy. To know that, of course, you have to be MINIMALLY informed…!!!

Ramdan
Reader
Ramdan

Brutus was the stepson of Julius Caesar, and Judas a disciple of Christ….

What you just mentioned does not turn Lenin Moreno in a bolivarian anything…if, maybe would be more accurate to say he is an ex-bolivarian (just to use your words)…or an ex-socialist or a “use to be leftist”….
On that light the irony you mentioned in your original comment simply is lost and your comment becomes what it is: a manipulation of the language to subvert reality.

The rest, again, is just your personal perception (even if twisted…but this is my personal perception!)

mark
Reader
mark

Moreno is a corrupt Washington puppet whose financial shenanigans in tax havens have come to light.
He is using the Assange issue to throw up a smokescreen, like a squid squirting out a jet of black ink.
He was in the pocket of the Neocohens, allowing US bases to be reactivated, Supporting his fellow Washington puppet Gweedo, and generally selling out his country to Uncle Sam.

Spinnysidetrack
Reader
Spinnysidetrack

when we get the minutes (etc) of these puppets in power, colluding together, collaborating against us as one – then I’ll show some interest – until then – it’s mostly no more than a widening distribution of chickenfeed,iand n the grand scheme of things. low level pecks of little danmage.

mark
Reader
mark

The lying MSM are now running a pre planned coordinated campaign to cover up and distract from their criminality.
The UK/ US/ Ecuador Regimes arranged this all in advance.

They are now putting out stories like Assange coating the walls of the Embassy with excrement, assaulting staff, etc. We have to expect much else in a similar vein. They will probably start talking about resurrecting the non existent rape case as a further diversion, to give the hacks another talking point.

BigB
Reader
BigB

Sorry guys, shoot me down if you want – but this is down to us. We can blame the state – as a separatist, isolatable, entity (no such thing exists without constituent legitimation) – if we want …maybe, if we are prepared to live in a cave, eating moss. Otherwise, if we use oil, electricity, plastics, drive ICE cArmageddon machines, use mobile phones and devices, use the net and social media, etc – we are all to blame.

Modernity is the culprit. Capitalisation is key. Every individual – outside the Global South – is part and parcel of this. For better or worse – we are all in this together.

The states behaviour is all too predictable: and can be accurately determined – to a high degree of accuracy – from now on. That is: ALL states will tend toward autarchical protectionism and narrative control – merging state, neo-state corporate, recuperated civil society and the charity industrial complex, the 4th Estate media and other Ideological State Apparatuses (ISAs such as academia, education, etc), preparing civil contingencies, forming supranational depoliticised simulated democracies and “strategically autonomous” militarised trading blocs (i.e. the EU), and preparing to mobilise rapid response paramilitarised Repressive State Apparatuses. In other words, everything that is happening.

Humanity is redundant. We are not needed for mass production. Except for a minority highly skilled, technically proficient quasi-militarised production workforce – we could have been robotised decades ago. But the capitalised relations of production were maintained as the relations of hierarchical rule. Robotisation was outsourced and delayed. Service industry McJobs and Uberised debt-fuelled living standards forestalled our immediate decline.

Identity is being commoditised and consumerised as state and neo-state conformism. For this, there needs to to totalised cyber-narrative control. TOTALISED. And capitalised data control as a predictive response tool; surveillance capitalism; and socio-Darwinian reward/punishment schedule identity engineering toward consensus conformism. Dissent is thought-crime – or it soon will be.

So, we blame the state – fair enough. They are in the firing line. Or scapegoat Americanism or Judaism – well that’s a well greased predictably slippery slope to fascism. The missing factor that makes the state behaviour pre-determined and predictable – and exposes scapegoating as a narrow minded unnecessary fear response – is entropy. The underlying factor that is governing the global dynamics is addiction to hydrocarbons. If anyone uses oil, or oil products, or products transported by oil, or food grown by oil (and gas), or basically has anything to do with modernity – we must all take some blame. That’s all of us – #MeToo!

Not only for Julian, but for the thousands of Julians to come. This is just the start. Who knows where this will end, but it will not will end well for humanity. I’ve just given a synopsis of this on another forum (as a reply to Norman Pilon): hydrocarbons negate socialism – it is that simple. As net energy decreases – state protectionism and narrative control will increase – as an inverse proportionality. They have to maintain their share of the profit. Even if that profit was equitably distributed – there is not enough hydrocarbon energy left for socialisation. If our response – through misunderstanding – is to fracture and factionalise already strained communities: we all but seal our fate.

https://off-guardian.org/2019/04/09/iran-floods-reveal-us-hypocrisy-economic-terrorism-and-let-em-all-die-policy/

To be sure: it looks pretty much sealed already – but it is not inevitable. In-depth analysis can reveal the entropic root cause – and possibly find socialised solutions on a Universal Humanity basis. Factionalisation and scapegoating will not. We are all Jullian now. The truth will out.

tonyopmoc
Reader
tonyopmoc

BigB, I don’t blame you, and to some extent agree.

However, instead of using the modern tools and techniques that you deprecate “oil, electricity, plastics, drive ICE cArmageddon machines, use mobile phones and devices, use the net and social media”, I think you should consider as an alternative the tools and techniques used by Stanley Green. He reached a truly massive audience, far greater than the readership of Off-Guardian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Green

Extract

“Stanley Owen Green (22 February 1915 – 4 December 1993), known as the Protein Man, was a human billboard in central London in the latter half of the 20th century.[1] One writer called him “the most famous non-famous person in London”.[2] According to Lynne Truss, Green became such a ubiquitous figure in and around Oxford Street in the West End that, like Zelig, he was “present in every black-and-white picture of London crowds that one has ever seen”.[3]

For 25 years, from 1968 until 1993, Green patrolled Oxford Street with a placard recommending “protein wisdom”, a low-protein diet that he said would dampen the libido and make people kinder. His 14-page self-published pamphlet, Eight Passion Proteins with Care went through 84 editions and sold 87,000 copies over 20 years.[4][5] ”

Tony

BigB
Reader
BigB

Tony

You can scoff: but entropy won’t take any offence. It is humanity’s silent partner: we either take it in to consideration – or we ignore it. Entropy carries on regardless. All negentropic socio-political economic policies – considering only capital and labour – will be shown as imaginary over time. Energy – particularly our master resource oil – is capital. Not enough cheap energy – due to declining quality of energy resources – means interminable secular stagnation and debt-funded stop gaps. All debt funding is only viable if it produces real economic growth. Otherwise, even sovereign debts become unrepayable.

Fortunately, outside this forum – many more qualified than I have attested to this. As Steve Keen put it:

“Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse”

Entropy and debt will precipitate a predictable and deterministic state response. They will ignore entropy, refuse to cancel debt, and become autarchically self-protectionist. This leaves us with the infinitesimally small probability of doing something positive about it. If we enter autarchical self-protectionist mode too …BOOM!

I guess I’m going to need one of those motorway sized hoardings to fit all that on.

tonyopmoc
Reader

BigB,

I read dieoff.org, 20 years ago. I understood the logic of it completely. In fact I was extremely worried for the future of my children and grandchildren. Then I did a great deal more research and analysis. I won’t bore you with the details, as you won’t believe me. Very few people do. However, I did feel better at the time re the future of my children and grandchildren. I would still feel the same now, except for the most dreadful performance since then, of the people in control. I have no respect for their competence, because they keep making the most awful decisions, which are completely counter-productive to both the future of our planet, and all species that inhabit it including the human race. There are elegant solution to all our problems, but all these Malthusians in control want to commit mass genocide, using an enormous amount of energy. The do this whilst presenting an economic system encouraging all companies, instead of building products to last, an exceedingly long time, building products to fail, which end up in land-fill, so they can build replacement products in order to maintain profit. It didn’t use to be like this even in The UK.

I read a lot of Dmitry Orlov, and often agree with him, but not about Peak Oil. Believing in such stuff can be extremely dangerous, especially for the millions of people killed, by the war criminals such as Dick Cheney and Tony Blair.

So far as Assange is concerned, and BREXIT, the performance of all British institutions, has been completely dire. It is far worse than I could ever believe possible, even if the equivalent did happen to The Germans and The Russians, mostly before I was born.

Tony

BigB
Reader
BigB

Tony

Oh well, we sort of agree – even about Peak Oil, funnily enough – except on the competence of ALL or decisions. I would say, though you might disagree – this world is fully intentional …the result of millennia of poor decisions. For sure, the cognitive elite can take a asymmetric share of the blame – they have after all moulded a system to entirely suit themselves. But to assume that the current system will run without ‘them’ is naive, I feel. The current system is time-bound, falsely spatialised, and entropic. It also thrives on an anthropocentric cosmogony without any room for real valorisable humanity in it – which is entirely the kind of Carrollian paradoxical nonsense I intended. It suits our current world system perfectly.

Humanity cannot arise in a world of fragmentation and separateness – only continued inhumanity – such as we see evidenced here. Which will increase due to entropy, debt, and diverging statist self-protectionism. Fortunately that inhumanity is time limited. Unfortunately, time is short and the probability of finding ourselves in a dying world is limited. The state is not necessarily time-limited – but will have to reinvent itself in a manner befitting the Hunger Games to survive. No one wants that.

But there is nothing like a good healing crisis and threat of extinction – or worse, capitalised barbarism – to bring humanity to its senses. Whatever happens, the dualised dichotomy of ‘them’ and ‘us’ is a falsehood, limited refuge, and root sectarianism. Whatever happens, we are all in this together. Exploiter and exploited, oppressor and oppressed, master and slave are in a co-dependent dialectic only the underdog can break. Not whilst we are dependent on oil. There is no replacement for oil. Hope is no replacement nor motive force for post-capitalism. Sorry, but thems the Laws of Physics. I didn’t make them up, but neither can I break them for some techno-utopia outside of space and time and entropy. Not if oil has any part in it.

tutisicecream
Reader

Definitely agree with this: “The underlying factor that is governing the global dynamics is addiction to hydrocarbons. If anyone uses oil, or oil products, or products transported by oil, or food grown by oil (and gas), or basically has anything to do with modernity – we must all take some blame.”

As hydrocarbon based capitalism careers into this next cataclysmic crisis the ruling class can only pull out all the stops for the control of their wealth and power. We see this everywhere geopolitically.

Knowledge and communication are central to this as that is the way information/learning/enlightenment is shared. This is why there is an attack on those like Julian Assange. Without communication the truth lies buried. And the control of information is the control of wealth and power. Time is the other factor as the ancients knew, with time truth will be revealed – [my caveat] as long as the information is not corrupted.

And that is what we face. What we do is ours to answer we know the problem it is written large.

BigB
Reader
BigB

TTIC

Yes, it’s obvious when we understand the underlying dynamic. Unfortunately, vested interest distorts consciousness. What would be the most insane response to entropic diminishing of our energy supply? Divert all available resources and excess capital into militarisation, cyber-security (dissent thought-control), and autarchical protectionism? Militarisation and Atlantic (EU-NATO) Integrationism versus Eurasian Integrationism to compete for scarce resources. Utilising depleting resources to catalyse the quickening depletion of resources, risking internecine warfare with missiles that could have been hospitals; nuclear weapons that could have been socialised educational systems; tanks that could have been community welfare schemes. It must be the states fault?

Well, yes. But not completely. Because all of our subjectiviesd choices contribute to the state agenda. So long as we, the people, are addicted to lifestyles afforded by cheap oil and the “free gifts of nature” – we play our part in this too.

Look at what has happened in the last 100 years or so – the life the Petroleum Interval has afforded us. We have created the most powerful plutocracy in history: and known nothing but war and emnity. For rival state and oligarchic factions, for sure. But humanity bought into the techno-industrial lifestyle that underlies modernities obsession with fake prosperity. Can we rightly blame ‘them’: or was it ‘us’ – even as has become apparent only one faction was truly benefiting? And what if we, the people, somehow took over with the same hopes and aspirations ‘they’ had? Absolute disaster!

The subjectivised choices of around only 30% of humanity brought us here. The repeat subjectivist choices – even under new management – will all but ensure our demise. We will destroy ‘us’ even without ‘them’. We all know what the state is going to do. We might not all know why. It is the not knowing why that breeds so much disinformation for all included factions. That’s all of us. Capitalism flourished through artificial scarcity. It will destroy itself when scarcity is real. Only those not directly invested in the state power regimes can find another way.

Herein lies the rub: scarcity is falsehood – even now. We are whole in ways that we can never realise under capitalism. Capitalism monetises decay, atomisation, and falsified desire – to be and to have something we are not capable of having or being without a financialised materialised techno-fetish. Our material and spiritual needs are able to be met close to negentropically locally – without central command or globalised state and supra-state superstructures. Only when society wants to disengage from the capitalised progress and absolutist growth protocols – that entropy forbids – and we do not want anyway. Not that we know it. But we might yet work out that entropy is humanities best friend. As capitalism ends: humanity begins. If we don’t all kill each other in the meantime! The other more common solutions are unconscionable anyway. We might yet give peace a chance – however unlikely it seems.

[BTW: time is part of the problem – not the solution. Capitalised, physicalised, mechanised, conceptions of time are more than partially responsible for this mess. Time and entropy work together. As Eliot put it in Burnt Norton: “Time past and time future/ Allow but a little consciousness./ To be conscious is not to be in time”]

Ramdan
Reader
Ramdan

“Only when society wants to disengage from the capitalised progress and absolutist growth protocols”….

This is the thing, society disengaging from the dominant worldview…unfortunately this can not happen on a large-enough scale…
Only if each one of us deeply underestand that we are responsible for everything that’s going on, that our life decisions are the one than determine if we plug ourselves into the dominant perspective or not, then peeople can change…even if that means dropping everything you use to cherish…cause once you see the Truth there is no going back, what you used to cherish will become tasteless….
But that change have to happen individually, from inside-out.