142

ALLEGED Chemical Torture of Julian Assange see our amendments below

Karen Kwiatkowski via LewRockwell.com

Great artwork from Truthdig

Since one of our editors published this piece we have been inundated with caveats that the claims made of ‘chemical torture’ are unsupported and speculative. We have even had it suggested this is fake news. We’ve so far been unable to confirm or deny these claims. We’re leaving this article in place for the present, but please be aware of the unproven nature of the allegations

There is great evil being perpetrated by Washington D.C. here and around the world.

A persistent terrible hate for life, liberty and humanity arrived on little cat feet and has taken over our country.  This did not begin with Trump, but sadly it also is not going to end with him either.

Trump promised to drain the swamp, implying change, transparency and accountability.

Instead he brought in neoconservative king-makers and warmongers, and allowed their influence to grow disproportionately, while his co-dependents in the other party facilitate the agenda of death.

The criminal pursuit and indictment of Wikileak founder, Julian Assange is the proof in the pudding.   The 40 page criminal complaint contains a lot of detail but not much crime.  In fact, the “crimes” are more like descriptions of how journalism is done in the information age, if it is true that the job of journalism is to tell the stories, name the names, and state the facts that governments don’t want told, named or stated.

In a normal world, none of this is worth much energy or attention.  There is very little legally here to work with, and success so far on the part of the US Government has been solely via a reliable judge in the Eastern District Court of Virginia, and other people’s money and other people’s governments, beholden or paid by the US.

But in the world that exists today, we see these overblown aggressive tactics and we can feel the excitement, the goosebumps and the hot necks of the FBI and CIA suits as they make their bones.

Chelsea Manning is back in prison, ordered back into solitary.  She [sic] is not the person she was after years of torture, isolation and chemical interrogation.  Ironically, her cognitive function as a result of her previous treatment is likely to render any future interrogation useless in court, legally and practically.  She received the Jose Padilla treatment, albeit refined by some years of USG practice.  Her resultant mental malleability may have produced the ideal Soviet Amerikan Woman.

The US appears to be a nation of laws, and yet, we absolutely are not.  One of many lessons and perspectives we gain from the study of Julian Assange is just that.  US political influence and debt-funded largesse resulted in Assange’s ejection from the Ecuadorian Embassy into the UK prison for terrorists in Belmarsh.   US domestic corruption and misreading of the Constitution produced his indictment.

Furthermore, US government employees, from the DoD, FBI and the CIA have been interviewing Assange in Belmarsh Prison, prior to any extradition decision.

Interviewing is the wrong word.  I’d like to say doctoring him, because it would be more accurate, except that word implies some care for a positive outcome.  Chemical Gina has her hands in this one, and we are being told that Assange is being “treated” with 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate, known as BZ.  What BZ does, from the New Yorker:

“Exposed soldiers exhibited bizarre symptoms: rapid mumbling, or picking obsessively at bedclothes and other objects, real or imaginary. “…The drug’s effect lasted for days. At its peak, volunteers were totally cut off in their own minds, jolting from one fragmented existence to the next. They saw visions: Lilliputian baseball players competing on a tabletop diamond; animals or people or objects that materialized and vanished. ….

Soldiers on BZ could remember only fragments of the experience afterward. As the drug wore off, and the subjects had trouble discerning what was real, many experienced anxiety, aggression, even terror. Ketchum [Dr. James Ketchum, DoD Edgewood Arsenal, MD] built padded cells to prevent injuries, but at times the subjects couldn’t be contained. One escaped, running from imagined murderers. Another, on a drug similar to BZ, saw “bugs, worms, one snake, a monkey and numerous rats,” and thought his skin was covered in blood. “Subject broke a wooden chair and smashed a hole in the wall after tearing down a 4-by-7-ft panel of padding,” his chart noted. Ketchum and three assistants piled on top of the soldier to subdue him. “He was clearly terrified and convinced we were intending to kill him,” his chart said.

One night, Ketchum rushed into a padded room to reassure a young African-American volunteer wrestling with the ebbing effects of BZ. The soldier, agitated, found the air-conditioner gravely threatening. After calming him down, Ketchum sat beside him. Attempting to see if he could hold a conversation, Ketchum asked, “Why do they have taxes, income taxes, things like that?”

The soldier thought for a minute. “You see, that would be difficult for me to answer, because I don’t like rice,” he said.”

BZ is an interesting drug, certainly not the only one used by the US government, but one of them.

Why give it to Assange?  What do they want from him?  Is it truth they seek, or more information, or is this whole farce something more like obsessive retaliatory rage at feeling powerless, as the world laughed at US State department memorandums and became angry at the idiocy and hate demonstrated by US soldiers 15 years ago.  Or maybe something more sinister – that they need Julian Assange psychologically and physically drawn and quartered because he revealed state corruption and weakness?   Is it because to the state this is the war, the real war it always fights, a war with the rest of the population for its very survival?   Or is Ray McGovern on to the real reason the deep state wants to destroy him?

It is difficult to know if the state is more sociopathic or more psychopathic.  What US government employees and/or contractors are currently doing to Julian Assange, and those who may have used Wikileaks as a journalistic avenue, may indicate it is the latter.  Torture, isolation, brutality, and the use of psychotropic drugs during interrogations and hiding this from the defendant’s own lawyers by denying them access — this is Lubyanka in the 1950s, not London and DC in 2019.

Allow me to get to the point.  The latest word I have received from England is as follows:

“[Julian Assange] is presently under close observation in prison hospital because he has suffered ‘severe transient psychotic episodes.’ My source(s) indicate these episodes occurred after two sessions of coercive interrogation at the hands of UK and US officials. The source(s) stated the HUMINT interrogators used psychotropic drugs in the course of the sessions.”

There are no words.  Nothing can be said.  2 plus 2 does equal 5.  The FBI is our own special Cheka.  The CIA Director’s hands are wet and her organization does not serve American values.  Rather than choosing to stay secretive for national security, the modern CIA must stay secretive in order to survive, because it has become functionally illegal.  Our president, who puts America first, is putting American values last, even as he tweets his concern for freedom of speech.

The agenda is to destroy Assange as a human being, and they may well succeed.  In doing this evil deed, in all of our names, America herself – whether we put her first, last, or somewhere in the middle – will have dug her own grave.


Karen Kwiatkowski is a retired USAF lieutenant colonel, farmer and aspiring anarcho-capitalist. She ran for Congress in Virginia’s 6th district in 2012.

can you spare $1.00 a month to support independent media

OffGuardian does not accept advertising or sponsored content. We have no large financial backers. We are not funded by any government or NGO. Donations from our readers is our only means of income. Even the smallest amount of support is hugely appreciated.

avatar
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Admin
Admin

Please see the updates to this article

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Apart from reading the whole article, see particularly the answer to the second question in the interview at https://civic.mit.edu/2013/01/07/leakswiki-continues-and-cryptome-interview/ et seq.

The article in question here above is an acknowledged reprint from lewrockwell.com and the citation for its basic premise is quite clear: ‘Source(s)’. That’s it: ‘source(s)‘.

Do not accept that as a criticism of the Off-Guardian: it is every bit as valid or invalid–the adult meaning of a citation only of ‘source(s)’–as the countless baseless assertions in The Guardian made under the same rubric of unnamed sources. It is a criticism of those of your immature readers who cannot comprehend the implications of a citation of ‘source(s)’ that is not fed to them on the silver spoon of paternal approval. Or it’s an attempted pre-coup by disingenuous actors who wish to batter the Off-Guardian with calls to emulate the broken veracity model of The Guardian, the NYT and compliant others, which even those august, lately re-solvent publications cannot themselves emulate or fix, as intended. How else to keep them in line? Let them photograph your goons making them drill holes in their hard drives, the better to let the data escape to more hospitable locales where it already resides? Is the Off-Guardian able to discern which?

Like the bale of hay legally required to be carried by London cabbies for the sustenance of their horses that remained an unrepealed statute well into the 1960s (and maybe is still) as a means of lawful apprehension (a.k.a. authoritarian flim flam), so the threat of frightening similar horses and thus alarming their possibly juvenile riders could be one of the trojans that, if it were to be mounted, could render the Off-Guardian as hapless a base organ as the on Guardian.

The tools of social repression will not magically transform themselves into the tools of social liberation. For it was written:

Jesus said, “Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man.”

None of the above amounts to any censure of those BTL commenters, in the grip of childish uncertainty or cynical adult certainty, calling it out BTL (where it should be) as “disturbing”: uncensored is uncensored. Several hundred percent better than “Vote Down”.

DiggerUK
DiggerUK

Your response is welcome. I’ll keep my powder dry for now.

I am however, disgusted at the actions of Consortium News who have deleted my posts there. They are, or at least were, identical to my posts here.

Censorship at the site that holds up the principles of Bob Parry?….’cui bono’…_

trackback

[…] an intelligent, articulate man reduced to a mere shadow of himself by months of torture and possibly pharmacological abuse; a magistrate who is no more than a hand puppet for a powerful state, […]

trackback

[…] Rumors circulating that Julian Assange was hospitalized after being interrogated by UK and US officials. “[Julian Assange] is presently under close observation in (the Belmarsh) prison hospital because he has suffered ‘severe transient psychotic episodes.’ My source(s) indicate these episodes occurred after two sessions of coercive interrogation at the hands of UK and US officials. The source(s) stated the HUMINT interrogators used psychotropic drugs in the course of the sessions.”   https://off-guardian.org/2019/05/10/chemical-torture-of-julian-assange/ […]

tezepewo
tezepewo

Imagine believing anything from this website is trustable:

“Conspiracy level: strong
Pseudoscience level: moderate”

“In review, OffGuardian reports news with a pro-Russian bias. Many articles are very critical of the Ukraine, such as this Ukraine admitted to interfering in the 2016 US election on Clinton’s side. This story does not offer hyperlinked sourcing, but rather translations of documents. OffGuardian also frequently promotes conspiracy theories regarding GMO’s such as this: Post-Brexit Farming, Glyphosate and GMOs. Although this story utilizes some credible sources, it also cites Mercola, which is a website that promotes quackery level pseudoscience. They also promote 9/11 conspiracies such as this The Fakest Fake News: The U.S. Government’s 9/11 Conspiracy Theory. They frequently cover False Flags and the US Deep State conspiracy as well anti-vaccination propaganda.
In an article by Ukrainian fact checker’s, Stop Fake, they write about the OffGuardian as “Russian trolls exiled from Guardian find home for their hate.”””

-mediabiasfactcheck

Editor
Admin

Hilarious. 🤣 We’re obviously devastated to be ranked by these guys as more ‘biased’ than the Atlantic Council, the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Snopes and the Jerusalem Post

RRdiss
RRdiss

Hard to believe this but im dont deny it. Why dont they just kill him, why torture?

trackback

[…] EDITORS NOTE: Does this development offer new evidence on the controversial allegation that Julian Assange was “chemically tortured”? Read our piece on that here. […]

trackback

[…] a brief follow-up on a story we ran a few days ago, ALLEGED Chemical Torture of Julian Assange. This article generated a lot of discussion below the line, mainly around its reliance on an […]

Maggie
Maggie

I am being told that I have already voted for a post, when I HAVE NOT!
Mark’s post in particular.

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

It’s obviously a plot against you! Just like Julian.

Maggie
Maggie

Sandy Robinson – Oh my this is a first.. Ad Hominem.
Beware fellow old posters, Mark, Gezzah, BigB, Tonyopmoc, Nwwoods,etc..
It appears that the new site has brought in the trolls.

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

Sorry you completely lost me there so I don’t understand any of that or whether you like my post or are against it! Can you give me some elucidation? Cheers.

Duke

See my response in The Truthseeker

Admin
Admin

Thanks – may we have a link?

Duke

Sure,
ere it is: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=188162

The faithful witness

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

I support Assange, but I’d want some corroboration of this story. If he’s really being tortured with psychedelic drugs and so forth why haven’t Wikileaks and his friends been screaming it from the rooftops?

John2o2o
John2o2o

Obviously! This claim is fake.

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

Do you understand what Maggie means in her post replying to mine? I haven’t a clue what it’s about, or if OffGuardian is owned by new people or what she meant about trolls. She even got my name wrong! My original comment was just saying I thought anyone caring enough about our posts to interfere with upvotes was as likely as Julian being tortured by psychedelics without Wiki kicking up a fuss, but the response is baffling. Ad Hominem, what? I said nothing about her or Julian. Anyone who knows what this all means who can tell me will earn thanks of this old geezer.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Since online forums appeared in the 1970s sensitive readers have been defamed, bullied, abused, demeaned and all that, or just felt that they had been, and have fretted mightily over that actuality or perception. They have also imagined that those agreeing with them are friends and display all the symptoms of grieving when those friends have disagreed with (read “deserted”) them. Some of the actually or perceptually harrassed have even killed themselves in response. So forget about it. Online forums are like any other remote action device–many otherwise mild individuals become dangerous road ragers; online forums’ immediate predecessor, talk radio, became a medium of foul ad hominems and threats of violence; compassionate husbands and fatherx happily joined the USAF to transport Big Boy across the sea to Japan. And so on. A species hardly in control of itself cannot be relied on to operate even so proximity preserving a device as an electric kick scooter with an appropriate degree of social responsibility. If you want a fairly uniform, omnipresent civility and reasonableness as the predominant mode in a public space, don’t expect much from either the highway or the electronic superhighway.

As for ‘ad hominems’, Maggie doesn’t even know what the phrase means. She’s seen it around and has incorporated it into her armoury of protestations whole and undigested. She’s actually an occasionally conspicuous dab hand at ad hominems herself. If you want to test that assertion, accuse her of being an alter-handle of ‘binra’.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Typo. For “online forums’ immediate predecessor, talk radio,…” read “online forums’ immediate predecessor, CB radio,…”

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

Much thanks. I constantly ask for calm and civility online as the norm but my hopes long ago suffered an abatement. If only everyone was as literate and insightful as yourself.

Please match th
Please match th

Don’t worry, Sandy. Maggie’s punctuation is so crap, aint nobody can be sure what she says. My guess is she’s dissing Tony 0lmec, but he’s OK.

geeyp
geeyp

Psychotropic drugs, not psychedelic. Much more dangerous really. (To Sandy R.)

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

I may be wrong, but wasn’t the part with the use of the word psychotropic added in June, while my post was in May? The description of some of the effects of the allegedly administered drug sound psychedelic as much as psychotropic (visual hallucinations etc) while others sound psychotropic.
(To geeyp).

Admin
Admin

The article has not been changed, added to or edited in any way since your comment was made.

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

Thanks, admin. I was confused by someone else quoting the part about psychotropic drugs dated in June after my post. Misunderstanding.

Yarkob
Yarkob

still waiting for any corroboration of this story anywhere else. the only time i’ve seen it mentioned (on MoA) it’s by people questioning its veracity. i think it’s a stretch tbh

John2o2o
John2o2o

It is clearly fake. Like most of the Skripal nonsense.

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet

This is devastating, utterly insane and mind bending.
How do we help Julian?
My own mental health is becoming affected by the sociopathy all around us, . How will Julian survive this. The lunatics are running the show.

John2o2o
John2o2o

What – this fake story? It’s a psy-op. Don’t fall for it.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc

I am extremely upset, that some American sourced unverifed reports, have besmirched The Reputation, of My Country ENGLAND

You accused us of TORTURE

I admit I no longer like you AMERICANS, and that is Why YOU are NOT Going To Get Julian ASSANGE

YOU AMERICANS are the The MOST XXXX XXXXs. Your Elite call, most of the people who live in your country DEPLORABLES. I mean wtf??? Dont you even like your own people???

Us English wouldn’t do that even to You Evil Bastards..Not Even The Scottish Tony Blair…

And we certainly wouldn’t do it an AUSTRALIAN. We like Australians -we just love the fact that they are honest, and tell it all true and make us laugh.

We sent The criminals To Australia

We sent the Religious Lunatics To America

You Americans are all completely utterley and completely MAD, which is why we told to to Go Away (Off) from all the Countries in Europe Independently in the first place a few hundred years ago. You have not improved.

Julian Assange Came to ENGLAND for Sancturary, and we will continue to try our best to protect him

ENGLAND 1 AUSTRALIA zero

We have got him, and the swedish and the snacirema are not in the game

Julian Assange Will Be Free.

You can’t have him.

Once released he can travel to America or anywhere else on the world Freely, under his own decision, feeling safe.

Just let him go, like you did earlier today with your own American Chelsea Manning.

God Bless, both of them.

More courage than the rest of us.

Tony

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym

B’Liar Scottish? That’s a foul libel! (I’ll leave you to decide against whom :O)

geeyp
geeyp

No one respects Julian Assange more than I do, and I am an American. I do not want to see him shipped here for I fear the worst. The psychotropic drugs mentioned in Karen’s article are what cause all the mass shootings in this country. They are the worst drugs ever. I don’t know if I trust this story or not, even though it would not surprise me if it is true. I hope it is not true. Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange have more courage than any of us.

mark
mark

What I find most nauseating about this whole sorry saga is the way the psychopathic subhuman criminal torturing filth ruling over us feel qualified and entitled to climb up on their high horse and give pious lectures and lofty sermons to the rest of humanity about their human rights failings, and how they need to pull their socks up to match “our” exalted standards and “rules based” system, unless they want to end up with all the other Darkies before our ICC kangaroo court.

Most recently in Myanmar, where a couple of journalists were jailed and then released after covering a war crime allegation. Meanwhile Blair swans around the planet with his £100 million plus fortune, posturing as a great statesman and being treated deferentially in the Guardian as he pontificates about Brexit or the Labour Party.

Torture has now been formalised and legitimised in western “judicial” systems. It is practised routinely by the Zionist Regime, and has been for decades. And of course, the Orange Baboon in the White House is an enthusiastic advocated of torture, as practised for years by Bloody Gina and all her colleagues. Apparently having a woman Torturer-In- Chief is so progressive and right-on that we should all applaud enthusiastically. But Trump is no aberration, just a continuation of policy and practice from “We tortured some folks” Obama to the tens of thousands murdered in the Phoenix Programme of the 60s, to the hundreds of thousands of South and Central American victims of the US trained, funded and orchestrated death squads in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and elsewhere. And of course Britain was fully complicit in all this as the US No. 1 Poodle.

And the grisly nature of the torture itself is probably incomparably worse than that practised during the darkest episodes of human history. The record of the Gestapo in this respect has been compared very favourably with that of the present US. Though they undoubtedly tortured people and had an appalling record, the whole procedure was so bureaucratic that it was practised a lot less frequently than is generally believed. Instead, the Gestapo capitalised on their fearsome reputation to intimidate their prisoners and victims to cooperate. Though Guy Fawkes and his conspirators were very badly tortured, at the time torture was actually illegal in England (unlike present day America or Israel) and the authorities tried to pretend it had not been used.

The actual torture itself as practised in the US global gulag of concentration camps and torture chambers in over a score of countries (including British territory) has included cases where a man was stripped naked in a freezing cell and chained up to a dungeon wall in a standing position, and just left without food and water till somebody noticed 17 days later that he had died. A Canadian moslem was handed over to the US and whisked off to Morocco and Yugoslavia to be tortured for several months, when his genitalia was lopped off. After a few months, they realised they’d got the wrong chap. He was Mohammed Wogga Wogga or something similar, and they actually wanted Mohammed Bin Wogga Wogga. Oops! So the poor unfortunate was turned loose with his best bits missing, not knowing what continent he was on. He eventually found his way back home and sued Canada for $10 million. Those splendid chaps in the Yew Ess Ayy just refused to answer all questions on security grounds.

All Spook organisations have their favourite murder techniques. Aircraft/ helicopter crashes are a CIA favourite to dispose of unwanted foreign leaders. Less exalted victims are despatched by a technique that involves grabbing their ankles and throwing them out of open windows to be passed off as accident/ suicide. Their studies showed that a fall from a height of 70 feet on to a hard surface would always be fatal. Our very own MI6 has always favoured engineered car crashes, sometimes referred to as “Boston brakes.” The Princess of Wales stated a few weeks before her death that she would be murdered and the killing disguised as a road accident.

It has been fully documented how the CIA released nerve gas on its own subway systems, and drugged people at random with LSD, as experiments to study their effects. Many people died as a result. People were deliberately infected with syphilis and malaria. Particularly vulnerable black people, prisoners and the mentally ill. There was much else besides.

There are no depths these people will not plumb. That is just the reality, and the true nature of the human sewage that rules over us.

trackback

[…] That is why Julian Assange is in Belmarsh prison. He told the truth about US war-crimes in Iraq. Chelsea (then Bradley) Manning provided Wikileaks with video evidence of these war crimes. For telling this truth and providing the shocking footage many of us have seen, she went to prison. Although released by the Obama administration she is back in custody now for an indefinite period for refusing to testify against Wikileaks. People who speak the truth lay themselves open to all kinds of punishment, from incarceration, torture and amputation to capital beheadings and crucifixion. It is widely held that Julian Assange is currently being subjected to mind-warping drugs. […]

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

Widely held by who, exactly?

Tactical11
Tactical11

Widely held by anybody with half a fucking brain. Just look at the guy and tell me he’s not being abused. Idiots.

Sandy Robertson
Sandy Robertson

Assange had health problems and extreme stress issues due to his having to confine himself to escape the vindictive governments of the USA, Sweden and UK. That does NOT mean there’s proof that him being in the hospital ward of Belmarsh prison means that “anyone with half a fucking brain” is obliged to slavishly believe that it’s “widely held” he’s being tortured with psychedelics while his friends with Wikileaks stay compliantly silent as this article claims.
Civility costs nothing.

Editor
Admin

The fact Assange apparently can’t hold a coherent conversation is at least consistent with claims of chemical torture. It’s quite possible – if it’s indeed being done to him – it’s without his or Wikileaks or his lawyer’s knowledge.

Is it likely any would-be torturers would announce their intentions first?

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

Is there any evidence of Assange being drugged ? Its not presented in the article.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Where’s the evidence Jose Padillo was ever drugged? Where’s the evidence that he actually needed to be drugged in order to believe, quite sincerely, that he had been? And resp0nd that way, complete with PTSD, etc., thereafter? Do you doubt that Belmarsh would let in the occasional, passing MI6 or CIA operative with a few hours to spare, to have a cup of tea and pass the time of day with him? Do you have a fucking clue how effective informed psyops can be? Are you aware that they’re going on in thousands of schools and workplaces and so on all over the UK, every day, conducted by people whose skills might be classified as those of amateur power-users or narcissistic savants, whose motivations never get anywhere near any concern for what some think of as weighty matters of state?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Where’s the evidence Jose Padillo was ever drugged? Come to that, where’s the evidence that he actually needed to be drugged in order to believe, quite sincerely, that he had been? And resp0nd that way, complete with PTSD, etc., thereafter? Do you doubt that Belmarsh would let in the occasional, passing MI6 or CIA operative with a few hours to spare, to have a cup of tea and pass the time of day with Assange? Do you have his visiting list? As I recall, when he was arrested Assange had serious, longstanding dental problems. Do you believe an outfit like Belmarsh would let them persist or that if Assange accepted help there would be no chance to introduce “anaesthetics” there? Do you have a fucking clue how effective informed psyops can be? Are you aware that they’re going on in thousands of schools and workplaces and so on all over the UK, every day, conducted by people whose skills might be classified as those of amateur power-users or narcissistic savants, whose motivations never get anywhere near any concern for what could be seen as weighty matters of state? Could it be that you were one of the chorus of bullshit megaphones who insisted that Assange’s conviction that the USA had sealed indictments against him (now published by the indefatigable John Young and Deborah Natsios–who, incidentally, dislike and disparage Assange) and was claiming their existence solely≤/em> to skip rape charges in Sweden? You’re right, at the moment there’s no actual evidence presented in the article for the article’s assertion, but do you doubt that the hegemons involved have a lot of prior form in scarcifying evidence? Did you not notice the years of strenuously denied asserti0ns about the US’s surveillance systems that, therefore, fell on deaf ears until Snowden walked out with the undeniable evidence?

Here’s Wikipedia’s compilation of John Young’s take on evidence in the whistleblower context:

John Young has said of Cryptome, “We do expect to get false documents but it’s not our job to sort that out.” In another interview, John Young promoted skepticism about all sources of information, saying: “Facts are not a trustworthy source of knowledge. Cryptome is not an authoritative source.” When asked about providing context for material, Young said, “We do not believe in ‘context.’ That is authoritarian nonsense. For the same reason, we do not believe in verification, authentication, background.”

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Oops. A busy Saturday morning and fumbling fingers has led to another BTL suggestion: the “Edit” text box does not have the automatic tag insertion function of the “original input” text box. If it can be added easily it would probably find a welcome from time to time. (The fact that the Edit function does have a timeout that doesn’t allow for arbitrary absences from the keyboard to help with household chores is not usefully countered, nor is it a bug but a feature).

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

Oh I am aware of what they can do. But thats not proof they did do it. If the story said some other form of torture happened, would I necessarily have to believe it just because i know people get tortured by the state and it could happen to Assange? Thats just silly, thats not even conspiracy theory, just random faith in evil. I am concerned this could be happening to Assange and do not suuport his extradition. But concern can be undone with false truths.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“If the story said some other form of torture happened, would I necessarily have to believe it just because i know people get tortured by the state and it could happen to Assange?”

You don’t necessarily have to believe anything, anywhere, perhaps but not necessarily especially if the sole effective veracity citation provided is just ‘source(s)’. Maybe such a citation is a clue for the lost and helpless consumers of certified true news: learn how to stand up by yourselves and stop puking all over Katherine Viner’s favourite old putative blouse?

In the specific instance of your above-quoted response: did you run out of puff befote you reached the end of my post or would the street address of a good pound shop that sells +5.00 diopter readers suffice?

Philip Roddis

Fair question Mister Bump. Ignore needlessly abusive replies. I don’t doubt the likelihood of Assange being so treated, but like you noted the lack of corroboration. Without that, the story is of little value.

John2o2o
John2o2o

None. She’s lying.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

‘Karen Kwiatkowski is a retired USAF lieutenant colonel, farmer and aspiring anarcho-capitalist.’

anarcho-capitalist? No such thing. Theres capitalism and there’s anarchism and never the two can meet. Stateless capitalism is worse than neoliberal capitalism, statelessness is good UNLESS you have Capitalism.

DiggerUK
DiggerUK

She is also a member of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.
https://consortiumnews.com/tag/veteran-intelligence-professionals-for-sanity/

If she doesn’t now fall on her sword, she should be marched outside and put up against a bloody wall…_

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Ever heard of Jose Padillo? Don’t be a dipshit–hear of him.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

Why?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Well, if for no other reason than an offsite article specifically addressing the ambiguities that abound in any discussion of the use of torture in modern state interrogation techniques is linked to in the above onsite article, which I understand you claim to be devoid of relevant references.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

I know that people get tortured. That isn’t proof Assange is being tortured.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

Its very off putting to see off-guardian invite corporate anti-state libertarian ‘truth sayers’ writing stuff for them. They astroturf left wing thinking like the guardian does, only worse.

Editor
Admin

Maybe you don’t get it, MB. Let me explain. OffG is pro-truth, pro-reality, pro-free-speech. We are not interested in knee jerk dismissals or people who use generic definitions/denigrations in place of facts. So please feel free to take all of your above generic knee jerk dismissal and distribute it where it may be welcome.

Meanwhile, if you have any critique of the actual content of this piece, your opinions will be welcome and respected.

DiggerUK
DiggerUK

It is obvious that it is a hoax. If true, I believe that Julian’s defence team would have blown this story all over the net. To date, silence.
OffGuardian published this piece, had anybody checked with Julian’s defence team before publishing?

Richard Milhous Nixon claimed that you only had to catch your opponent in a lie once to discredit them completely. This story needs comment from Julian’s team.

If it turns out to be true then lay the table, and serve me plate, after plate, after plate of humble pie until I am sick…_

Yarkob
Yarkob

“If true, I believe that Julian’s defence team would have blown this story all over the net”

This.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

My critique of the actual content of this piece was that there was no evidence to support the claims. As many other people have also pointed out. I think thats fair. Why would anyone just accept anything said as truth based on annoymous sources with zero evidence. Tahts what the guardian does. It also conflicts with your follow up piece where you state that we should challenge assumptions. I challenge the assumptions of an anarcho-capitalist as much as a neo-liberal capitalist. Because I think capitalism is the fundamental problem of most things. For the record I’ve always enjoyed Off Guardian , been reading for it years, and agree with most things, but on this I think its fair to ask for more evidence. Its not a knee jerk dismissal as a I also staed earlier, I think its possible even probable Assange is being tortured. But I’d like to know why we should trust Karens word/source without evidence.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Ever heard of Murray Rothbard? Don’t be an ignoramus–hear of him.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

Hes a capitalist libertarian. Which is nothing to do with anarchism. I know such people like to call it anarcho-capitalism, but its a complete missunderstanding of the term ‘anarchist’, ‘anarchism’ and ‘anarchy’. Capitalism can’t exist without property law. That requires a state – libetarians tend say ‘small state’ – but either way its not anarchism, any state is by definition an imposed hierarchy of force.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

OK, you’ve heard of him. Now try reading him. As for the term “anarchy” in any context and any “philosophy”: Bakunin, Kropotkin et al have no proprietary rights.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

OK. If you say so. JUst give me your definition then we can be absolutely clear what you think anarchy means. Im happy to accept your definition, do you have one?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Without a leader.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Capitalism can’t exist without property law. That requires a state – libetarians tend say ‘small state’ – but either way its not anarchism, any state is by definition an imposed hierarchy of force.

Your wanky dogmatism (emphasized) cuts no more ice re the freedom to use the term than does the anarcho-capitalists’ wanky argumentation in defence of their bullshit “philosophy”. You wouldn’t be one of those crypto-anarchists who’s repository of value lies in the sanctity of the Oxford English Dictionary and the PolSci lectures at the local educational factory, would you?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

OK, not emphasized. The auto-inserted (or any?) “b” (or any?) tag does not work inside auto-inserted (or any?) blockquotes.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

I dont care what terms people use, but the general principle of writing and speaking is to convay what you mean using words that people can understand. Your comment doesn’t explain what you (or Karen) think anarcho-capitlism means, only that you think my definition is wrong. By every definition i have heard , anarchy is nothing to do with capitalism. I’ve been here before. Self described anarcho-capiatalists are unable to discern the differnce between a capitalism and an anarcho-capitalism (ive debated with quite a few). They often just turn out to have the same philosophy of greedy self serving neo-liberal capitalists who want to avoid tax, but maintain a state or private army to protect their private property.

Yarkob
Yarkob

anarcho-capitalism means something different to that which Karen brands herself. it is not an anarchist who does capitalism. it’s a total mis-application of the term anarchist, too..sigh

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

Anacrcho capitalist means capitalist libertarian. The latter has nothing to do with anarchism (it requires a) state of some sort and b) capitalism) I don’t know of any differences, not even minor, between anarcho capitalist and capitalist libertarian. If you have one id like to hear it.

Yarkob
Yarkob

I’m not sure, but I think you are agreeing with me. Anarcho-capitalist has zilch to do with anarchy. That’s my point. Nothing more. I have no real idea what an “anarcho capitalist” is, nor a “capitalist libertarian”, and I don’t really think the people calling themselves or others know either..

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

We are in endtimes. Not a great, rapturous endtimes, but a nasty, squalid little endtimes that will see much of the biosphere laid waste and most, if not all, of its hominids made extinct. And between now and then, while human organization in “advanced” societies is still disfiguring the face of the planet in the image of itself, what is today meted out to the exceptional Julian Assange will become the everyday fate of every neighbourhood dissident misfit. What the rapturous render as poetry —

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

reality will reduce to mundanity

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow

For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow

Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow

For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but with a whimper.

.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc

Robbobbobin,

I am in endtimes, cos through some freak in nature (I put it mainly down to my wife), I have managed to get rather old, and actually receive a state pension, unlike my wife, who should have received it on time, when she was 60 years old – but she was cheated by The British Government. They didn’t pay her, the pension she had worked for all her life.

However, I think I will live for a few years yet, if we keep up the regular exercise, and don’t have a heart attack in bed.

I am fairly confident, that with luck our Grandchildren, currently 3 & 1, will still be alive and healthy in the year 2100.

I admit we are currently controlled by an ageing bunch of psychopaths, but even George Soros, and Tony Blair are going to Die before me (hopefully)

I have been trying to get them prosecuted, since 2003, but no-one believed me, how evil these people can be, and still are.

The French have noticed it, if you read the detail of this report and the links..

http://thesaker.is/gilet-jaune-sitrep-for-labor-day-and-acte-25/

I now love The French again.

https://francais.rt.com/international/61529-brexit-mysterieuse-reunion-entre-soros-blair-et-moscovici-qui-embarrasse-union-europeenne?fbclid=IwAR26pRzW9qSU5HDfsswEvT74S4J23IB-4M_QxF69whEFXkMTXTlpx5v-Juc

Tony

nwwoods
nwwoods

Sorry, but the veracity of some of the reporting on this site is becoming rather suspect to me. Unfortunate.

Refraktor
Refraktor

I certainly hope so.

Frankly Speaking
Frankly Speaking

I, for one, appreciate reading the opinion of Karen Kwiatkowski, a retired USAF lieutenant colonel who ran for Congress in Virginia’s 6th district in 2012.
I’d say she’s a rather more credible person than some of the non-entity, self-important, non-expert garbage we see across too much of the alternative media these days.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

Karen is a self declared Capitalist. See above. Thats all the suspect one needs.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Some of my best friends are capitalists.

John2o2o
John2o2o

And Donald Trump is president of the USA. So what?

DiggerUK
DiggerUK

As the story is completely bogus it is, by your description, expert garbage…_

mark
mark

Yes, she’s right to raise these concerns. What is she supposed to do, share his cell 24 hours a day to provide a simultaneous record? The US and its cronies and satellites like the UK have an appalling record of barbaric, medieval torture and human rights abuses practised on an industrial scale in scores of countries. The number of victims runs into the hundreds of thousands. With that kind of record, they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc

nwwoods,

It’s a small band of about two and and a half people, and an occasional volunteer. They have been very busy recently upgrading their website. Normally, the standard is excellent, and they have time, to check the veracity, of the content, they publish. I admit they have recently made a couple of mistakes, in posting articles that they have not independently validated. You could always volunteer to help them. I think they do a fantastic job, but we all make mistakes, especially when under pressure, and doing it for free.

Just thank them, and send them a tenner.

Off-Guardian is one of the best resources on the net.

I have absolutely no connection to Off-Guardian, except I read it nearly every day, and very occasionally post a comment.

Tony

John2o2o
John2o2o

The story is shit. It is important to let them know.

Admin
Admin

It would be more helpful if you detailed which part of this – or any other – article you have a problem with, so we can check it out.

DiggerUK
DiggerUK

Let me help you.
This story is bollocks. False. Shameful journalism…_

Shardlake
Shardlake

With the US government’s interference in Venezuela and the recent monetary support it has undertaken in financially declining Ecuador, which has led to Mr Assange’s eviction from its embassy in London and into the arms of Britain’s penal system, I am persuaded Karen Kwiatkowski’s piece has some veracity and is supported by a number of links to substantiate it.

Currently, it seems to me that the Swedish participation in this exercise is as dead as a Skripal duck and it leads me to think the time will surely come in the not to distant future when it will be announced that the British government has been considering an American extradition request and has decided to comply with that request. Therefore, Mr Assange has been rendered into the custody of officers of the United States and is currently on his way to Washington.

Before such a scenario is allowed to take place I would want each elector to contact his/her Member of Parliament to bring up Mr Assange’s case in the House of Commons, to head off any likely move by the Home Secretary that permits it. I would also like to see ‘Rosenstrasse-type’ demonstrations outside Belmarsh prison demanding he and his legal team are seen to be treated appropriately.

In this country we are experiencing a political tyranny in the way that has not be seen since 1930/40’s Germany. In Britain a series of continual poor political judgments has led us to where we are today; subservient to global commercial concerns that instruct governments to perform in a manner prejudicial to the interests of ordinary people. Individuals like Mr Assange (and Ms Manning) and the work their organisations do are the only enlightenment the public at large can rely upon as the main stream media has proven untrustworthy and hence, the desperation to silence him.

I am in no doubt that this current administration, through its own making, has its back against the wall with Brexit and will seek assistance in the form of promised trade deals with any entity no matter how undesirable or politically repugnant.

The USA seeks Mr Assange’s extradition to their jurisdiction more for revenge than any desire for what it sees as justice and Mrs May’s acquiescence is the quid pro quo. Please don’t let this happen.

JudyJ
JudyJ

“I am in no doubt that this current administration…….will seek assistance in the form of promised trade deals with any entity no matter how undesirable or politically repugnant.”

Mike Pompeo was over here for talks with May and Hunt a few days ago. I caught part of their post discussion press conference and heard Pompeo declare something along the lines of

“Because of our ‘special relationship’ I have every confidence that we can enter into long-term trade deals”.

The way he delivered this statement came across almost as a tacit threat to the UK to make sure they continue to tow the line…or else. For some reason, Julian Assange sprang to my mind straight away.

With regard to getting MPs involved, I wrote to my Labour MP a few days after JA was taken into custody and was pleasantly surprised to receive a comprehensive reply on 7 May. It appeared to be a standard letter which would suggest either that a standard reply has been issued to all anti-extradition MPs for use as and when, or my MP has been receiving a number of communications from his constituents and endeavoured to produce a substantive reply . Either way, it can only be cautiously encouraging.

The reply included the following:

“In UK legislation we have protections for whistleblowers in the belief that protection should be afforded to those who take a personal risk to disclose wrongdoing where that disclosure serves the public interest. I believe Mr Assange is at risk of extradition to the US because he has exposed material that is greatly in the public interest.

The matter of extradition to the US is now in the hands of the British courts and legal system, in which I have the utmost confidence. However, on the basis of what we currently know, I do have concerns about Mr Assange’s potential extradition to the US.

Thank you once again for contacting me and for sharing your views. I can assure you I will continue to follow developments closely.”

Jim
Jim

“… … In doing this evil deed, in all of our names, America herself – whether we put her first, last, or somewhere in the middle – will have dug her own grave”.

Not only it can be for Assange! We have not to wait, to see it happen in the future, it is not at all in the future! It happens now! On this very moment, with the many others who take drugs in “America”! It seems that they also contribute to delve “America” and their own grave, this literally, by overdose?

The highest causes of death in “America”, today, are they not by overdose?