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Discuss: European Elections

The European elections are here, and Theresa May’s political future hangs in the balance. As it seems to have done for years. Her party, fresh off being wiped out in the local elections a few weeks ago, are on the brink of being destroyed…if the polls are to be trusted.

Nigel Farage’s new Brexit Party are surging in the polls, and are looking to easily sweep the vast majority of the UK’s seats. A fact which rather flies in the face of the “People’s Vote” narrative that a new Brexit vote would have Remain win.

Labour is making losses too, according to the polls, but whether that’s due to the various smear campaigns launched against the leadership, or their vague equivocating stance on Brexit, is unclear.

All this time Corbyn has been told he should be making Labour a remain party, but polls suggest there was a massive leave vote waiting for a party to appeal to its wants.

Meanwhile the “resurgent” Lib Dems, fresh off their huge gains in the local elections, seem to have safely captured the majority of the Remain vote. But since they won’t do anything with it, except what someone more powerful tells them to, does anyone really care?

As always, discuss below.

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Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
May 24, 2019 9:38 PM

the website has been brute force attacked.

It’s limping along atm, but we can’t post anything and the server is cutting out intermittently.

We’re working on fixing it.

TheThinker
TheThinker
May 24, 2019 9:49 PM

Hope you can find workarounds Off-G Admin. Your truth to power platform is obviously ‘bothering’ somebody!

Mucho
Mucho
May 25, 2019 11:27 AM

If it ain’t broke……don’t fix it. Sorry, couldn’t resist 😉

wardropper
wardropper
May 25, 2019 3:19 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Agreed. It’s very tempting, in the face of the timing of this attack, to want to ask exactly who it was who thought the old OffG format was so deficient that it simply had to be changed…
Everything works very slowly for me at the moment, but it all still works nevertheless.

Admin
Admin
May 26, 2019 3:00 PM
Reply to  wardropper

We had readers complaining about the old format on a regular basis – and with justice. The DDoS attack has nothing to do with changing formats.

wardropper
wardropper
May 26, 2019 3:43 PM
Reply to  Admin

Thanks for the clarification, Admin.

Maggie
Maggie
May 26, 2019 9:31 PM

Ahh Admin, that accounts for the problems I am having. When I attempt to research the JL my computer begins to scream and says I have a virus….then I lose all that I am working on.

So- this is how ‘they’ intend to control us. by removing our freedom of speech and access to information?

I think you may need to have a look at who set your page up, and see what kind of virus they left you?

Many, many years ago, (over 35years) a friend computerised his business and the guy who set it up installed a virus that became active every few weeks so that he had to be called out to fix it costing my friend thousands. My son being in ‘computers’ was asked to investigate and found it.

Nose N Bottom
Nose N Bottom
May 29, 2019 2:10 AM

How about the US OF A stay out of it and let Europe sink on its own greed and power. Heck US is already sinking so why do we need our nose in Brrxit, ah more power more control. Enough of the mighty dollar rule and time for countries to print own money. Goodbye debt based shekles. Amen

Estaugh
Estaugh
May 28, 2019 12:26 PM

Britain has a Constitution containing elements pre-dating the advent of the English by several centuries, if not several millennia. If you want to see your inherent rights unlawfully removed, by all means vote for your future enslavement by voting for lindems/ green/tory-lab remainers et al. Brexit is the vehicle by which the nation can reclaim its stolen sovereignty and detour society back on the road to sane, coherent governance. Farage does NOT own Brexit and he had better watch out if he tries to sell us out to the Yanks. As sovereign subjects we maintain the right and the duty to kick up shit to any governance which tries to sell us down the river. King John, Charles the 1st and James the 2nd, are witnesses to the power of the Constitution to bring the powerful bang to rights. It would be of interest to discuss the subject of ‘sovereignty’ and of ‘constitution’. to clarify their exact meanings and functions. If possible without the mud-slinging I have been witnessing in the current ‘debate’.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 27, 2019 2:19 PM

Just to be clear about the results.

17 million didn’t turnout to vote for the Hard Brexiteer.

It is a major setback for them. The msm are hiding that plain truth by not posting the absolute numbers of voters.

Put that in a pipe ..

mark
mark
May 26, 2019 7:56 PM

It seems that in most areas outside London and Scotland, Brexit polled 32-39%.
Brexit the biggest party and the winner by a long shot everywhere outside those 2 areas.
Tories pushed into 5th place overall behind Brexit/ Liberals/ Greens/ Labour often in that order.
32% (Brexit) – 19 (Liberals)- 14 (Labour) – 11 (Green) – 9 (Tories) overall.
A complete washout for the Tories and not much better for Labour.
Obviously a good result for Brexit, which was only formed 6 weeks ago. They even came 2nd in Scotland and Wales. UKIP wiped out. Labour in 3rd place in Wales. Berger and Chuka and Co. sunk without trace.
But this doesn’t solve anything. If anything, it just confirms the deadlock. The Liberals and Greens together got roughly as much as Brexit. Both sides will claim this vindicates their position.
There will be a lot of bloodletting over the humiliation and meltdown in the Tory and Labour parties.
What does this mean in practice?
Brussels is a joke Parliament to give a fig leaf of democratic respectability for the EU Commission.
It doesn’t matter. It’s not much different from the Supreme Soviet of the old USSR.
Its main purpose is to provide a cushy sinecure for corrupt, discredited, failed and clapped out politicians like Mandelson, Kinnock and all the rest.
This does nothing to resolve the EU issue.
Any Deal with the EU still has to be passed in Westminster. This does nothing to break the deadlock there. It is unlikely any kind of Deal can gain a majority there. That leaves the options as before, leaving without a deal, scrapping Brexit and remaining, and the issue of a 2nd referendum. All options are hopelessly divisive.
Back to Square One.

The Liberals and the Greens are feeling very smug now, but whether they can replicate these results at a General Election is open to question. So no doubt does Farage. If he could duplicate these results, he’d be swept to power in a landslide, but how likely is that? Probably not very, but anything’s possible.

The result will probably have an effect on the Tory leadership election, but I’m not sure what. Boris is the 6/4 favourite. If he doesn’t bottle it like last time and is in the last two standing, he would probably be elected by the 125,000 membership. So the choice of the next, unelected, PM is in the hands of the Blue Rinse Brigade.

The general instability makes a General Election more likely. Expect to see a continuation and intensification of the Deep State/ MSM Smear Campaigns against both Corbyn and Farage. They are terrified of both. The Chaos continues.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 27, 2019 4:40 AM
Reply to  mark

Nice work Mark.

A consideration of turnout is always advisable – it was slightly better than last time, but still abysmal.

It went up from 35.5% to 37% (but still lower than the high of 2004).

Meanwhile the average EU turnout went up from 42.5% to nearly 51%.

As a comparision another country where there are equally great political changes – Spain, turnout went up from 44% to a staggering 64% – pretty much wiping the rightist nationalist hegemony.
https://election-results.eu/national-results-overview/

In the UK it seems that many Tories as well as Labour stayed at home.
Some Tories switched to Brexit as did a portion of Labour.
Significant Labour switched to Green.
Many Tory and significant Labour numbers switched to LD.
Most ukip followed Nigel like last time (and lets not forget a significant proportion of these are traditional Labour supporters at General Elections).

My opinion is that Labour voters from last time have made a protest vote and will revert back as they did at the last GE. As will some Tories but they are destroyed as a functional party and will have to reform – probably as a formal alliance with the LD and the peri-pathetic centrists.

In my opinion the Brexit/ukip vote is as previously, because Austerity is still in force and membership of EU is still the scapegoat. But ONLY amongst the minority of the voter base who were whipped into another frenzy.

If it all seems to lead to analysts believing that the Labour vote has collapsed than surely the Establishment should aim for a quick GE to get rid of the bogey ‘Lexiteers’
There are a handful of LexiteerMP’s but they really aren’t the Corbynites…)

Bring it on!

mark
mark
May 27, 2019 10:12 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Yes, I think this instability makes a General Election more likely, but having said that, the two main parties will want to avoid one like the plague.

We could be left with a hapless minority, mutinous Tory government for another 3 years, deadlocked and incapable of doing anything, with everything degenerating into broad farce (though it has already.) It could make Venezuela and Maduro/ Gweedo look like a model of stable government. We could have another Gordon Brown type unelected prime minister for 3 years, chosen by a couple of hundred Tory MPs and around 100,000 Tory Party members, mostly old age pensioners. This will probably be a Brexiteer, maybe Johnson/ Gove/ or Raab, a choice of the final two being put to the membership. So we could have an outcome after all the horse trading, of something like Johnson getting 55.000 votes and Raab 45,000, with Johnson coming out as top monkey based on the votes of a few thousand Tory OAPs.

Welcome to Banana Republic Britain, a banana republic without the bananas.

mark
mark
May 27, 2019 10:21 PM
Reply to  mark

Otherwise I’d expect to see some kind of pact between Liberals/ Greens/ SNP, something like the previous 2010 coalition.

Maggie
Maggie
May 26, 2019 3:21 PM

Admin – I have just attempted to vote up Steven Morell but was informed I had already up voted??? I had not!

John Gilberts
John Gilberts
May 26, 2019 5:13 PM

Tony Benn: Britain Must Leave EU to Restore Democracy

https://youtu.be/dQY2CHx4d3U

Right then. Right now.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 25, 2019 1:39 PM

The low turnout – fully encouraged by the msm – guarantees the Fartagers party a large proportion of the protest vote, along with some expert PR and Electoral Commissioner helpers.

Take the arrow symbol – which on the lonh poll sheet of candidates clearly points to the box to put the X in.

I think also the activities in the North West deserve proper investigation. This is the region of Osborne and Brady. The media have done their part in allowing the false narratives to be spread.

I haven’t seen any canvassing in the Blairite MP’s area for their candidates – the same as in the last GE , when they hoped their votes would reduce, but actually went up.

The failure to go to the voters, by the tories as they abandon whatever manifesto they stood on and the same behaviour by the MP’s who have left their party, is the reason why we are pandering to the ‘love my country’ scoundrels.

lundiel
lundiel
May 25, 2019 9:53 AM

Dear Liberal Democrats and Labour-Liberal Democrats…..Stop wringing thy hands! All the old farts that voted for Brexit are dead….you told us so! A vanguard of millennials marched up to polling stations on Thursday followed by European flag-clad middle classes singing the Anthem of Europe. Nothing can go wrong, victory is yours….you just have to believe, like you believed all those YouGov polls that told you what you wanted to hear.

TheThinker
TheThinker
May 25, 2019 10:19 AM
Reply to  lundiel

YouGov has an interesting history. What it owns in business interests/shareholding’s, how it’s expanded it’s business and who has benefitted from it. Follow the money..

Maggie
Maggie
May 26, 2019 2:41 PM
Reply to  TheThinker

@ The Thinker –
YouGov was founded in the UK in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party. In 2001 they engaged BBC political analyst Peter Kellner, who became chairman, and then from 2007–2016, President.
In April 2005, YouGov became a public company listed on the Alternative Investment Market of the London Stock Exchange. Major shareholders of the company are BlackRock and Standard Life Aberdeen.
Stephan Shakespeare has been YouGov’s Chief Executive Officer since 2010. Roger Parry has been YouGov’s Chairman since 2007.[ Since Peter Kellner’s retirement, its methodology has been overseen by Stanford University professor Doug Rivers.
YouGov is a member of the British Polling Council
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouGov

TheThinker
TheThinker
May 26, 2019 3:20 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Thanks Maggie,

Zahawi has courted several controversies including expenses scandal, having ties to both oil and energy companies, which may or may not be considered a conflict of interest. He brought a property portfolio of around 25 Million in and around London and voted down the stronger regulations for Landlords to keep homes in a decent home standard, no surprises there then. He was also tied to the Gentleman’s club last year which was derided for sexually degrading the Women hired to serve at the Club.

Connections to Black Rock, the Worlds largest asset Manager of George Osbourne fame, who was reportedly given the princely sum of £650k for 4 days work

Don’t know a lot about Kellner, but he does have connections, to big Media ‘Influencing’ organisations having moved to Carnegie EU after YouGov, here as one of those pesky experts

https://carnegieeurope.eu/experts/1443

Roger Parry another massive public opinion influencer moving in all the same circles interestingly now a non-exec board member of UBER…hmm following the money! Because they really care about their drivers being supported with all things employment rights and safety over shareholder profit

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Parry

A lot going on under the bonnet of YouGov!

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 6:04 PM
Reply to  lundiel

Yes, now that all the old farts must have died off, all the Shitlibs have to worry about is a handful of ignorant, uneducated, bigoted racists. Berger and Chuka must be confidently expecting to pick up at least 90% of the vote.

RobG
RobG
May 24, 2019 10:17 PM

Whilst I always find Off Guardian interesting and a much needed ‘voice’ (kudos to all involved), it never lets me post here, even now with the ‘new site’ (which visually I find much better than the old site).

I hope Off Guardian is not going the way of The Intercept, and many others; ie, totally sold out to the security services.

One can only hope that there’s still some sanity left.

Although I doubt it…

Loverat
Loverat
May 24, 2019 7:55 PM

One possible glitch I have noted is the ‘vote downs’. Earlier my post and other replies were overwhelmingly voted up. Now there seem to be loads of vote downs on the same comments.

No one seems to like a loverat these days but difficult to believe me suggesting not voting in the European elections prompts so many vote downs. The only articles I see so many votes up and downs is on the Albania/Kosovo subjects which tend to attract a certain audience. If the vote downs are correct, I will be most offended.

Wilmers31
Wilmers31
May 25, 2019 5:58 AM
Reply to  Loverat

I had a vote down on something where it did not really make sense. But we should not be naive, the system is fighting back.

All of us who are for living in peace, point to emissions from weapons production, mention that the Americanisation of the last few decades has not delivered benefits for far too many are at risk of being silenced just like artists were blacklisted and nearly destroyed who expressed one word of criticism against earlier wars, like the Vietnam War.

I am out of Europe, thank goodness. Kissinger once said that if the US does not have Europe they have nothing. The US wants an obedient Europe who buys all their weapons from the US and pays US soldiers on EU soil – if that’s not happening, destroy. It will be a long and painful ride to dethrone the US. Notice that they speak of EU/NATO nowadays.

wardropper
wardropper
May 24, 2019 7:38 PM

Very slow internet response here at the moment…
Takes ages to load a screen.

wardropper
wardropper
May 24, 2019 7:37 PM

“As always, discuss below”…
Dead right.
Nothing to add.

wardropper
wardropper
May 25, 2019 3:22 PM
Reply to  wardropper

I mean that I have nothing to add to what has already been said, in case that seemed to be a negative comment.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 24, 2019 7:04 PM

Admin
Site wasn’t connecting – ‘error establishing a database connection’ – while using my mobile. Has loaded with my wifi now!

Hope tis just bedding in glitches.

FranklySpeaking
FranklySpeaking
May 24, 2019 5:34 PM

How so many people, especially some Marxists here and elsewhere, support Farage, a City spiv, is beyond me.
The cretin has also sponged off the EU for 20 years and built himself a nice pension. Hypocrite.

wardropper
wardropper
May 24, 2019 7:41 PM

I think it just represents desperation for something different.
I can see us using him to get our Brexit, then we switch on our ad hominem critical faculties again and subject him to very close scrutiny…
If he can’t even deliver Brexit, then of course he is useless to all and sundry.

Rich
Rich
May 25, 2019 7:32 AM

Speaking as a Marxist, I would say anyone who supports Falange should have their head examined. My enemy’s enemy is not necessarily my friend. Unpleasant though the various golpistas of the Atlantic Council may be, Falange represents a more immediate problem. Basically, people get the government they deserve, and the British public has needed a change of heart, if not brain, since 1979.

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 6:25 PM
Reply to  Rich

You can’t reduce politics to a question of personalities. You have to take each issue on its merits. People are sometimes on the right side for the wrong reasons, like all kinds of skulduggery and self interest. Maybe people wanting to remain to get a cushy job in Brussels in charge of bendy bananas, or whatever. You can’t avoid this. There will always be all kinds of knaves and fools around on both sides of the argument, looking to feather their own nest. But it doesn’t matter. You have to look at the issues themselves, and decide on the merits of the case. You don’t have to be a Farage Groupie or a Blair Groupie.

lundiel
lundiel
May 25, 2019 9:08 AM

How so many people, especially some Marxists here and elsewhere, support Farage, a City spiv, is beyond me.

It isn’t for me. We’ve had three solid years of remain propaganda rammed down our throats, funded from a seemingly bottomless well of cash by some very dislikeable people with no/little connection to the UK, backed up by an army of fanatical supporters, many of whom claim to be centre left. It was the lies from the supporters that tipped it for me, especially the stupid “Love Corbyn hate Brexit” mantra. Given that these MPs won’t be there for long, or won’t even get to take their seats in European obscurity. Another hard kick in remain’s goolies was extremely satisfying.
It was the only way to prove the constant bleating about this or that YouGov poll (where anyone can join and claim to be a Labour member/supporter) saying 99.9% of Labour voters want a second referendum was a load of cobblers…..If I’m proved wrong and the LibDems get more than 50 seats, I’ll eat my words.

BigB
BigB
May 25, 2019 9:48 AM

As opposed to supporting the corporate Remoaner and war criminal Tony Blair; the war criminals of NATO; their ‘Drang nacht Osten’ militarised occupation of Eastern Europe, and the neo-nazified dehumanisation, depopulation, and militarised rape culture that has brought; the neophyte Franco/German imperialist war criminals and their occupation of Mali; etc

Reducing an international solidarity, peace-aspirational humanist critique of the openly fascist EU dehumanisation programme and expansionist tendencies – falsely equatable to the support of Farage – is a beyond reprehensible rhetorical device. As if the invented support of the Odious Farage is somehow morally equivalent to the depoliticised, dead-democratic, militarised expansionism and neo-colonial stolen living pseudo-economy you seem to be quite happy with.

If you want a more nuanced discussion of eurocentric, structurally racist, post-colonial credit imperialism and debt domination of the Global South, whose blood, sweat, and tears subsidise our profligate disposable incomes and ersatz-techno-socialisation …feel free. Reducing serious issues to pejorative labelling – such as ‘Farage’ and ‘Marxist’ – is a dehumanist Unpeopling in itself. They are conscious, feeling, living people (and their biodiverse interspecies support communities) that eurocentric lifestyle politics is parasitical on.

Let’s discuss the issues of what our lifestyles really cost: and the untold human suffering that affords such facetious and banal uttering …equating a universal humanist critical consciousness appreciation – reduced to the pseudo-dismissive oversimplified labelling ‘Farage’. Farage is odious: but not nearly as odious as eurocentric imperialism.

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 6:15 PM
Reply to  BigB

This is the standard line of the toadying presstitute media hacks. You can’t be against the EU, because you’re on the same side as Farage, Galloway etc. They never say you can’t support Remain because you’re on the same side as Blair, Soros and Co.

People apparently aren’t allowed to make up their own minds and exercise their judgment. They just have to join the “right” gang. It’s like saying Hitler was in favour of (his version of )the NHS, so nobody should support the NHS.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell
May 24, 2019 4:29 PM

Why would anyone dignify with a vote the European Parliament, this rubber stamp for an unstable consortium of capitalist states called the European ‘Union’? As woeful as parliaments are as supposedly ‘democratic’ institutions ‘representing’ the people, the EP comes nowhere near even that low bar. The EP is nothing other than a diplomatic forum for thieves and their victims, not unlike the UN. It’s a ‘governing’ body with the power of a central bank but without the direct power of a state.

Make no mistake, the EP is not the instrument for ‘balancing of power’ among EU member countries either. On the contrary, it is a forum for imperialist machinations that serves as the ‘democratic’ figleaf for a Germany/France-dominated trading bloc whose aims are to maintain German and French capital’s ascendancy over the poorer EU member countries, principally through the Euro and the ‘European’ (read German) Central Bank. The poorer European countries have sacrificed their sovereignty on the altar of a trading bloc to ensure that a cheap pool of their labour can be used for German corporations, and to a lesser extent French ones, to better compete with the US and Japan — not least by keeping living standards and working conditions of German and French workers in check.

The diktats of the EU are being enforced inside the working class by the trade union bureaucracies and mass reformist workers parties, of which the German SPD is the prime example. The latter, in alliance with the bourgeois Greens, rammed through the Hartz IV laws and Agenda 2010 that gutted numerous social welfare provisions including reducing unemployment benefits, and Germany now has a two-tiered workforce. ‘Hartz IV’ is the current German term for the lumpenproletariat, and 55% of Hartz IV recipients reportedly are foreign born. This shows concretely how the poorer European countries with a cheap reserve army of labour have served as a battering ram for lower wages and conditions inside the dominant EU imperial power itself. It’s not just influxes of desperate refugees from the Middle East and Africa fuelling the rise of fascism in Europe.

The horrible thing is that liberals and social democrats go along with all this ‘social Europe’ claptrap put about to give the EU a ‘humane’ veneer, and they have no idea of its ramifications.

So why would anyone want to ever vote for members of a cabal that ‘pronounces lawful’ what the EU/ECB did to Greece? No-one should ever legitimate the European parliament’s existence with a vote, let alone run for it. Down with the European parliament! And down with the EU!

BigB
BigB
May 24, 2019 6:30 PM

Absolutely Stephen, and yet someone downvoted your comment. I wonder if that person is willing to come back and discuss the Franco/German – but mainly German – “grand coalition” return to militaristic interventionist foreign policy in the ‘G5 Sahel’ …as noted below by me. Specifically, the stepping up of their joint intervention in Mali.

It looks like German imperialism is on the rise, despite a long interruption …for historic reasons. “Fortress Europe” extends in to the Sub-Sahel Central African belt, where coincidentally, or not (not!) – a large amount of Chinese FDI has been invested in supply chains in recent years.

This mission had been telegraphed by Mogherini, von der Leyen, and our very own Tony Blair – speaking at the Munich Security Conference back in February. It very much looks like the second scramble for Africa – after a decade of slow burn gestation by AFRICOM and Museveni and Kagame’s genocidal rampages – is well and truly on.

What was that about left-wing re-socialisation of EU power structures from within …but without a say? Oh yes, total hypocrisy. More like unfinished business for Tony: securing blood diamonds and conflict minerals for the TNCs.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/23/mali-m23.html

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell
May 26, 2019 1:20 AM
Reply to  BigB

Yes, I think you’ve a point about the rise and ‘redemption’ of German imperialism, now that its military adventures Africa have yet to be challenged by any of its imperial rivals. It’s telling how the EU has transformed from an anti-Soviet tool for NATO into one mostly for German capital.

BigB
BigB
May 26, 2019 10:57 AM

The Franco/German ‘Grand Coalition’ – ratified in the Aachen Treaty – has gone completely undiscussed and under-reported in the MSM. It has not informed the Brexit ‘negotiations’ – more correctly: ‘negations’ – at all. Despite their being considerable leverage of the fact that the original vote is out of date, and people have changed their minds.

Since the referendum: the EU has openly accelerated the Lisbon Treaty process – culminating in Mogherini anouncing the EU ‘Defence Union’ as a fait accomplis at Munich. There is no denying the EUs expansionism: they broadcast everything on their external action ‘EEAS’ website – Mogherini’s personal fanzine.

And yet the EU is constantly portrayed as a preservational ‘ark’ for workers rights and freedoms, and environmental standards. Never a mention of the increasing imperialism and proto-fascism. It is almost like someone is distorting the debate!

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell
May 26, 2019 1:56 PM
Reply to  BigB

What I can gather from the Aachen Treaty is that its essence is a Franco-German replacement for a NATO that’s been dominated by an increasingly erratic, belligerent and unreliable US. NATO’s original purpose as an anti-Soviet military alliance is over, and Germany and France no longer need or want the US bully running the NATO protection racket that’s not in their interests.

Key to the Aachen Treaty is its military aspect (joint tanks, artillery and eventually a Future Combat Air System, etc), but crucially Germany needs French nuclear weaponry for its military to learn to handle and use before ultimately acquiring it. Secondarily, in the context of the new scramble for Africa, Germany sees an opportunity to piggyback onto France’s ‘expeditionary’ imperial experience. With all the imperialists madly trying to keep China out, Germany and France also see their chance to get into parts of Africa before the US does. Independent possession and use of nuclear weapons ultimately is fundamental to staying the US’s hand and threatening China.

Prototype ‘Euro’ state building, bilingual areas, and all the rest notwithstanding.

BigB
BigB
May 26, 2019 8:47 PM

I think the rumours of a NATO/EU split are premature: Mogherini and Stoltenberg seem to have a thing for each other. All proposals have been joint: every meeting is co-chaired – and ‘interoperability’ is the buzzword.

The deployment to Mali/’G5 Sahel’ has been proposed as it is not a normal zone of NATO deployment. I believe a letter of mild rebuke was sent from the State Dept.

Beating the US: AFRICOM has been deployed, more or less pan-Africa, since the Bush era. Wherever Chinese investment goes in: a new Jihadi group pops up – and SOF begin to ‘train and equip’ the local forces. The biggest strategic denial of Chinese assets was the Kerry calving of South Sudan – and the subsequent civil war. Kagame/Museveni are US/EU imperial assets and genocidiares in chief – securing conflict ‘blood minerals’ – particularly in the DRC. South Africa – post-Apartheid – has continued to be the neoliberal outpost for the ‘Washington Consensus’. The IMF/WB has completely raped Africa for decades – loading it with unrepayable debts which came with neoliberal contingencies (infamous ‘SAPs’) – which amounted to weapons of mass destruction. Minor cosmetic debt cancellations – orchestrated by Blair – came as too little, too late.

I think Euro-American imperialism has done a proper job on Africa. Any Franco/German involvement will be a strategic denial of Chinese capital investment – making sure Africa remains under sole Euro-American neo-colonialism.

It is not just the French nuclear capability: but the UK’s as well. Although undeclared: UK military capability is being ceded to the EU. The UK Column has all the details; and is the only real source for this. Professor Gwythian Prins has possession of the so-called ‘Kitcat Tapes’ that were leaked to the Sun. The “shiny wrapper” is the “fluffy bits” that will make up the Withdrawal Agreement: the real deal is ever greater integration – EU Military Unification of the UK’s armed forces. The transcript is here:

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/escaping-from-hotel-california/

My analogy is that NATO/EU are like ‘bad cop/good cop’. NATO provides the hard power military might: the EU is the soft power projection and civil/military ‘CSDP’ security provider and neoliberal state builder. There is plenty to substantiate this on the EEAS website.

Maggie
Maggie
May 24, 2019 7:24 PM

Brilliant summary Stephen, clear, concise and every word true. Who the F voted it down? They have to be seriously brain dead or have so much invested in the EU that they are desperate to bury the truth with their no votes.
As I said in an earlier post – somewhere. OffG has never been the same since it’s redesign. Somehow it has been infiltrated by the trolls.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell
May 26, 2019 1:11 AM
Reply to  Maggie

Thank you, I hope it helps.

Bothfeet
Bothfeet
May 25, 2019 9:29 AM

Maybe the alternatives are even worse?

DomesticExtremi
DomesticExtremi
May 25, 2019 10:54 AM

Typical turnout for EU elections is on average around 30%, across the 28 nations. Our apathy doesn’t seem to have been very effective at delegitimising it, nor at stopping ‘ever more Europe’ being inflicted upon us.
Apathy and abstention may get you bragging rights at a dinner party but is pretty crap as a political weapon.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell
May 26, 2019 12:56 AM

It’s the principle. People need don’t need to vote for the ‘lesser evil’ if it’s still an evil. If the electoral choice is cholera or scurvy, there’s nothing wrong with abstaining, dinner parties or no. If there’s no hard class line drawn by a candidate, why vote for them?

But it’s also useful for politically conscious people to know which bodies can or might be practical platforms for pushing radical or revolutionary propaganda that are beyond the suicidal political mainstream. As rigged as they are, actual parliaments sometimes can be this, but the EP can’t. Just as the UN or the Davos forum can’t. And everyone knows that.

The lower the voter turnout in elections for the completely fraudulent EP, the better. The more irrelevant the EP is shown to be, that people aren’t fooled by this EU figleaf and rubber stamp, then that would represent a small advance in political consciousness.

BigB
BigB
May 26, 2019 10:38 AM

DomesticExtremi

You seem to miss the point: we will be getting militarised, globalising “ever more Europe” however you vote. Voting gives a sham-democratic veneer to our depoliticisation. Canvas your MP or MEP to oppose the EU’s Defence Union (EU Military Unification) or the Franco/German occupation of Mali. Can you propose or oppose the EU’s growing militarised expansionism? Can you oppose ‘Military Schengen’? The EU sets the timeframe for its expansionism and controls its own foreign policy – no matter how any of the constituent members vote.

Voting legitimates this supra-sovereignty and encourages the ceding of ever more sovereignty. Although tax harmonisation has stalled – the singlepoint control of fiscal, monetary, and foreign policy – is clearly the stated long-term goal. Is this what you are voting for? Do you support and legitimate the occupation of Mali, the occupation of Eastern Europe, Franco/Germanies ‘Grand Coalition’, the EU Defence Union? Because a vote is a tacit consent to these and so much more.

Voting is apathy: a tacit defence of a lack of political imagination and willingness to form a grassroots peoples movement to oppose ever more corporate globalisation. It validates a eurocentric lifestyle imperialism over the rest of the politically impoverished world. It ratifies the green imperialism over life and nature: that subjugates the rest of humanity and nature as objectified resources for our consumption. Is this what I should be voting for: my own depoliticisation and the instrumental degradation of life and its resources …leaving a challenging future legacy for those who come after me?

Or should we expand our sphere of consciousness beyond ego-centrism – and fight back …for the future and the preservation of a biodiverse humanity that the current political imaginary – not solely limited to, but including the EU – is intent to cannibalising for short term immiseration for the most ….except for an unnaccountable but controlling, very few?

DomesticExtremi
DomesticExtremi
May 26, 2019 6:11 PM
Reply to  BigB

My point is that abstention will not stop any of the above. Your only option is to vote against the status quo.

different frank
different frank
May 24, 2019 12:09 PM

Oops. they seem to be back.
Admin please delete duplicates please.

different frank
different frank
May 24, 2019 12:04 PM
different frank
different frank
May 24, 2019 12:03 PM

To see who Farridge supports, lets look at his voting record.

2016

EU Vote 2667 on 25/2/16
‘Draft Bill on automatic exchange of financial account information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting Tax Dodgers again.

EU Vote 2748 on 25/2/16
‘Humanitarian situation in Yemen’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained/No Show”, Ukip seem to support bombing of civilians.

EU Vote 2664 on 4/2/16
‘Systematic Mass Murder of Religeous Minorities by ISIS’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, trying to block discussion of the matter.

EU Vote 2650 on 3/2/16
‘Stategy on Gender equality and women’s rights’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, displaying their 1950’s misogyny again.

EU Vote 2565 on 21/1/16
‘Mutual defence clause (Article 42(7) TEU)’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, putting their Politics over our National Defense needs.

EU Vote 2545 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection – Appliances burning gaseous fuels’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they really don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2544 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection : Personal protective equipment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2543 on 20/1/16
‘Presumption of innocence and right to be present at trial in criminal proceedings’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, seems they don’t want any of us getting a fair trial anywhere.

EU Vote 2531 on 19/1/16’Skills policies for fighting youth unemployment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t want Young People to have jobs.

EU Vote 2530 on 19/1/16
‘Hurdles to European female entrepreneurship’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like Women starting their own businesses.

2015

EU Vote 2308 on 2/12/15
‘Eu-Liechtenstein Agreement, Exchange of Financial Information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 2265 on 26/11/15
‘Freedom Of Expression In Bangladesh’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, failing to Defend Free Speech.

EU Vote 2013 on 29/10/15
‘Transparency Of Securities Financing Transactions’. Ukip: ‘Against’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 1756 on 27/10/15
‘Mandatory Automatic Exchange Of Information In Taxation’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, protecting TaxDodgers.

Re posted. As the first one is gone

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 6:34 PM

Nigel also wants to kill all the gays and sell off the NHS to US vulture funds. He also cheats at cards, kicks his dog, and wears women’s underwear. Complete bounder. Ask the BBC if you don’t believe me.

different frank
different frank
May 26, 2019 9:13 AM
Reply to  mark

Oh I see you use deflection when faced with facts you don’t like.

different frank
different frank
May 24, 2019 11:08 AM
different frank
different frank
May 24, 2019 11:05 AM

Lets see who/what Farridge supports by looking at his voting record as a MEP.

2016

EU Vote 2667 on 25/2/16
‘Draft Bill on automatic exchange of financial account information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting Tax Dodgers again.

EU Vote 2748 on 25/2/16
‘Humanitarian situation in Yemen’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained/No Show”, Ukip seem to support bombing of civilians.

EU Vote 2664 on 4/2/16
‘Systematic Mass Murder of Religeous Minorities by ISIS’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, trying to block discussion of the matter.

EU Vote 2650 on 3/2/16
‘Stategy on Gender equality and women’s rights’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, displaying their 1950’s misogyny again.

EU Vote 2565 on 21/1/16
‘Mutual defence clause (Article 42(7) TEU)’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, putting their Politics over our National Defense needs.

EU Vote 2545 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection – Appliances burning gaseous fuels’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they really don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2544 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection : Personal protective equipment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2543 on 20/1/16
‘Presumption of innocence and right to be present at trial in criminal proceedings’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, seems they don’t want any of us getting a fair trial anywhere.

EU Vote 2531 on 19/1/16’Skills policies for fighting youth unemployment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t want Young People to have jobs.

EU Vote 2530 on 19/1/16
‘Hurdles to European female entrepreneurship’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like Women starting their own businesses.

2015

EU Vote 2308 on 2/12/15
‘Eu-Liechtenstein Agreement, Exchange of Financial Information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 2265 on 26/11/15
‘Freedom Of Expression In Bangladesh’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, failing to Defend Free Speech.

EU Vote 2013 on 29/10/15
‘Transparency Of Securities Financing Transactions’. Ukip: ‘Against’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 1756 on 27/10/15
‘Mandatory Automatic Exchange Of Information In Taxation’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, protecting TaxDodgers.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
May 24, 2019 10:42 AM

It has to be said.
May’s almost done.
But is Brexit over?
May-be.
It’s over to you Boris.
FFS.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 24, 2019 10:29 AM

Oh the self pitying tears of a never should a been scoundrel hidin behind love of country.

But nothing has changed!

UreKismet
UreKismet
May 24, 2019 8:06 AM

Ding dong the witch has gone! yee haw!! Boris to the rescue, a man who would drown himself trying to rescue a dead cat. From the unconscionable to the incompetent.

Patriot Realm
Patriot Realm
May 24, 2019 1:13 AM
DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 24, 2019 9:36 AM
Reply to  Patriot Realm

It is moronic. That is why it is just a little bit funny – like Benny Hill used to be.
A divorce is not the same as choosing which fastfood shack you want to go to.

Maggie
Maggie
May 24, 2019 7:30 PM
Reply to  Patriot Realm

Funniest thing yet and show them up for what they are…
WHO voted it down??? Come on OffG…

Dino Valentis
Dino Valentis
May 25, 2019 6:17 AM
Reply to  Patriot Realm

It is incredibly funny. It illustrates perfectly how the majority of Burger King diners who wanted to leave Burger King, were thwarted by an ever more desperate minority who would do anything to keep them inside.

mark
mark
May 23, 2019 9:48 PM

JULIAN ASSANGE
XXXXXXXXXXXX

JA HAS JUST BEEN CHARGED UNDER THE ESPIONAGE ACT.

This carries the death penalty, but there are 17 additional charges carrying 5 or 10 years each.

F*ck the Yew Ess Ayy.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
May 24, 2019 8:49 AM
Reply to  mark

Yep, Julian is on his way to America’s Lubyanka, possibly Guantanamo. Of course we have the grubby collusion of Sweden and the UK in this outrage. Making a current comparison. The European Song Contest should have as a corollary the European/American Bitch Contest. Close call between the Swedes and the Brits.

Gerda Halvorsen
Gerda Halvorsen
May 24, 2019 12:46 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Not completely with agreement with you regarding Sweden. Yes, they have been pretty repulsive on the Assange issue, but their judicial system has a lot more protection regarding extradition of political dissidents than in the UK. He has a good chance at beating the trumped-up rape charge and after that, would stand a much better chance of successfully fighting for not being extradited than he would be in the utterly USA-subserviant UK.

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 6:58 PM

Any man who appears before a feminazi Swedish court charged with rape has about as much chance of due process and a fair trial as a woman appearing in a Saudi Arabian court charged with adultery. There is no jury in a rape trial, just a feminazi judge and two Swedish political appointees.

Some people believe in the rule of law and the independence of the judiciary. Some people believe in Father Christmas. One of the few positives in this whole tawdry, degrading spectacle is that the “judicial” systems of the UK/ Sweden/ US have taken off the mask and shown how hopelessly compromised, corrupt and politicised they really are, just kangaroo courts used for political persecution and intimidation.

As for extradition, Sweden is even more abjectly servile and obsequious to the Yew Ess Ayy than the UK, if that is possible. Sweden has routinely colluded with the Exceptional And Indispensable People to kidnap people off the streets of Stockholm and spirit them away to one of the scores of concentration camps and torture chambers in their global Gulag, to be tortured and murdered with thousands of others. One poor devil was stripped naked in a freezing cell, chained to a wall in a standing position, and just left there without food and water. It was 17 days later before they noticed he’d died.

It amazes me that anyone can be gullible enough to spout such garbage. There is no difference between the UK, Sweden, the US, and the most oppressive Third World hellhole you can think of.

Gerda Halvorsen
Gerda Halvorsen
May 28, 2019 9:00 PM
Reply to  mark

Mark, you may well be correct in your analysis. I must have been having a bout of wishful thinking…

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell
May 23, 2019 8:47 PM

Why would anyone give an angstrom of credibility to the European Parliament, this rubber stamp for an unstable consortium of capitalist states called the European Union? As woeful as parliaments are as supposedly ‘democratic’ institutions ‘representing’ the people, the EP comes nowhere near even that low bar. The EP is nothing other than a diplomatic forum for thieves and their victims, not unlike the UN. Participating in its elections is qualitatively no different than voting for delegates to the Davos forum.

Make no mistake, the EP is not the instrument for ‘balancing of power’ among EU member countries. On the contrary, it is a forum for imperialist machinations that serves as the ‘democratic’ figleaf for a Germany/France-dominated trading bloc whose aims are to maintain German and French capital’s ascendancy over the poorer EU member countries, principally through the Euro and the ‘European’ (read German) Central Bank. The poorer European countries have sacrificed their sovereignty on the altar of a trading bloc to ensure that a cheap pool of their labour can be used for German corporations, and to a lesser extent French ones, to better compete with the US and Japan — not least by keeping living standards and working conditions of German and French workers in check.

The diktats of the EU are being enforced inside the working class by the trade union bureaucracies and mass reformist workers parties, of which the German SPD is the prime example. The latter, in alliance with the bourgeois Greens, rammed through the Hartz IV laws and Agenda 2010 that gutted numerous social welfare provisions, and Germany now has a two-tiered workforce. ‘Hartz IV’ has become the current German term for the lumpenproletariat, and 55% of Hartz IV recipients are foreign born. This shows concretely how the poorer European countries with a cheap reserve army of labour have served as a battering ram for lower wages and conditions inside the dominant EU imperial power itself. It’s not just influxes of desperate refugees from the Middle East and Africa fuelling the rise of fascism in Europe.

The horrible thing is that liberals and social democrats go along with all this ‘social Europe’ claptrap put about to give the EU a ‘humane’ veneer, and they have no idea of its ramifications.

So why would anyone want to ever vote for members of a cabal that ‘pronounces lawful’ what the EU/ECB did to Greece? No-one should ever dignify the European parliament’s existence with a vote, let alone run for it. Down with the European parliament! And down with the EU!

Maggie
Maggie
May 23, 2019 8:45 PM

WHY am I not being allowed to vote up posts?

TheThinker
TheThinker
May 23, 2019 9:35 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Hi Maggie, I am having problems connecting to the site, keeps saying the internal server cannot establish a connection, as well as jumbled up icons and not loading the rest of a post, when I press read more. Perhaps there are some glitches? Which are effecting some and not others at the moment? It also took time for it to register my upvotes too, if that’s any help.

Maggie
Maggie
May 23, 2019 11:30 PM
Reply to  TheThinker

@ The Thinker, Thanks for that.
I was becoming paranoid and thinking it was something I had said.
As I have registered with OG this site is not improved at all. And I do believe it is being got at. Not only that but I noticed last week that there was increased troll activity. Something that we never had before, that I was aware of?

Yarkob
Yarkob
May 24, 2019 8:45 AM
Reply to  Maggie

anything that challenges the hegemonic brainwashing of the empire for long enough will attract heat. you tend to get the most when speaking the truth..don’t feed the trolls 🙂

Maggie
Maggie
May 24, 2019 7:33 PM
Reply to  Yarkob

I have no intention of feeding them… I know what they are but WHO are they?

mark
mark
May 23, 2019 10:07 PM
Reply to  Maggie

The site has been knackered since it was moved and changed.
It does work, after a fashion, but it’s like watching paint dry.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
May 23, 2019 10:23 PM
Reply to  mark

Not a helpful comment really. If people are experiencing problems with load times they should let us know by email

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
May 23, 2019 10:32 PM
Reply to  Maggie

The website is being paralysed by server/database problems this evening. We don’t know why, and we are doing our best to find out.

BigB
BigB
May 23, 2019 6:56 PM

New New Labour, much the same as Old New Labour: hide behind the pro-City of London Corporation euphemism of “pro-business”. It has become McDonnell’s mantra. I would like to see that called out as neoliberal globalism and credit imperialism. I’ve just started Nick Shaxson’s latest “The Finance Curse”; which has destroyed the global economy and is slow-genocidal …home and abroad.

The City is the cancerous rectum of inhumanity. Pro-business is pro-imperialist. I will use just one icon: a six year old child in the DRC forced to dig at gunpoint for coltan, gold, or cobalt …the mining tailings poisoning human and wildlife and contaminating the Congo delta …the child’s pitiful earnings going to fund Museveni and Kagame’s killing fields: murdering untold millions (perhaps as much as ten million) of Unpeople so we can have champagne socialist techno-wet-dreams of a de-carbonised clean energy utopia. That is what ‘pro-business’ really means in reality.

It is fucking reprehensible science fiction: morally and ethically a bad-faith self-absorbtion. It makes me quite queasy that it has been hypernormalised and tolerable for so long. Pro-business is beyond an Orwellian inversion: it is anti-life and anti-humanity.

Pro-business is a clear and present danger to all life on earth, born and as yet unborn. I’m tired of the pretense that it means anything else. Legitimating any political party: and validating the proto-fascistic EU is a vote for dead-democratic, global sub-imperial immiseration, and slow-omnicidal militarised terrorism …particularly as they clearly plan to deploy to the Central African ‘G5 Sahel’ …with British forces under Mogherini’s EU command (which she gloated about at the Munich Security Conference – she is our FM now). A vote is a vote for EU/NATO suzerainty: legitimating as yet unperpetrated war-crimes.

Even the ‘fuck-you-two’ protest vote against the two major parties can only be on the basis that no one will take their seat. Otherwise, it is technically legitimating open-fascism and anti-life slow-genocide. Actually, the way the EU is performing economically: the financial collapse element may happen sooner, rather than later.

The contra-life political imaginary holds nothing for me. Both the EU and UK Parliament have openly announced they are anti-election anyway. We vote: they do what they were going to do anyway. We are post-democracy – whatever sham democracy was ever meant to be. EU Military Unification was a policy of the “founding Fathers” – that no one ever voted on. Thanks mainly to the UK Column, it has become an open secret – which no one in power will ever acknowledge. We are already depoliticised: why vote to legitimate further depoliticisation?

Vote with your feet: don’t vote and bleat.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
May 23, 2019 7:07 PM
Reply to  BigB

‘I’ve just started Nick Shaxson’s latest “The Finance Curse” ‘Bingo BigB, so have I! Do you want to do the review or shall I?

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 7:11 PM
Reply to  BigB

It wasn’t always this way. In the 1970s, Finance was 2% of the US economy. It is now 40%, the same as the UK. Spivs and shysters shuffling around pieces of derivatives toilet paper and pretending they’re worth billions.

People talk about the $20 trillion US economy, but $8 trillion of it is unproductive, rent seeking garbage, contributing precisely nothing to the economy or society.

A friend of mine is a London taxi driver. He picked up two 18 year old Goldman Sachs trainees, who spent the journey complaining that their bonus for the year was a mere £90,000.

James Connolly
James Connolly
May 23, 2019 5:24 PM

Whatever the Lib Dems might now be proposing [to do in Brussels], their record there as part of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe has been one of supporting austerity and opposing progressive measures around work, pay and the environment.”
–Philip Luther-Davies
https://novaramedia.com/2019/05/22/voting-for-centrists-wont-hurt-the-tories-or-europes-growing-right/

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 7:22 PM
Reply to  James Connolly

And cheerleading for whatever crazy Neocohen war for Israel is currently on the go, Libya, Syria, Iran, Captain Clegg and Colonel Cable.

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 23, 2019 5:09 PM

On the subject of the EP elections but slightly O/T, I have just popped out to the polling station to cast my vote. I don’t know about anyone else but I was amazed that, to be given my voting slip, all I had to do was give the first line of my address and my first name…not even a date of birth or middle name. In fact when I was asked for the address and the officiator was looking through the address list, my name was clearly visible to me, had I not known it! I wasn’t even required to present my poll card. I went along additionally armed with my driver’s licence on the assumption that some form of ID might be requested. But no.

Could someone begin to explain to me how this system can be regarded as above scrutiny, when “non- democratic regimes” (e.g. Venezuela) are accused of having corrupt voting systems when they have even officially been classified as second to none? Surely our system shouldn’t pass muster in the eyes of objective adjudicators?

KarenEliot
KarenEliot
May 23, 2019 8:05 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

A very good point. I voted on way home from work, not out of enthusiasm for any of the choices, or for the idea (let alone the reality) of the EU, but because I would feel I was betraying the generations who came before me, and who struggled long and hard for the right to vote, if I didn’t do so without a reason. I could have produced driving licence if required but knowing a name and address (or as JudyJ says being quick and sharp eyed enough to read a random name upside down) was all that was required. A younger quicker less medicated brain than mine could probably have memorised several names and passed them on to confederates, for example, using such a trick. Definitely not beyond the wit of a vote rigger crew to intercept polling cards before the postie delivers them, then drive from polling station to polling station, cast a dozen votes at each, and make a real difference. Might attract comment if a bunch turn up at once given (understandable) apathy and low turnout, but hard to imagine anyone caring enough to do anything. Our clerk was keen to get back to her Jo Nesbo paperback 😏

A simple indelible ink print on your finger is common in some countries to prevent two votes per person and seems an inexpensive way of precluding this…

…but you can imagine the harrumphs in the shires at the very suggestion that Great British Democracy were in any way imperfect.

Maggie
Maggie
May 24, 2019 7:39 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

I think this is a very valid point.. Fortunately I vote by post. But I think there should be some real investigations into the lax nature of the polling station voting system.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell
May 23, 2019 1:55 PM

Why would anyone give an angstrom of credibility to the European Parliament, this rubber stamp for an unstable consortium of capitalist states called the European Union? As woeful as parliaments are as supposedly ‘democratic’ institutions ‘representing’ the people, the EP comes nowhere near even that low bar. The EP is nothing other than a diplomatic forum for thieves and their victims, not unlike the UN.

Make no mistake, the EP is not the instrument for ‘balancing of power’ among EU member countries. On the contrary, it is a forum for imperialist machinations that serves as the ‘democratic’ figleaf for a Germany/France-dominated trading bloc whose aims are to maintain German and French capital’s ascendancy over the poorer EU member countries, principally through the Euro and the ‘European’ (read German) Central Bank. The poorer European countries have sacrificed their sovereignty on the altar of a trading bloc to ensure that a cheap pool of their labour can be used for Germany, and to a lesser extent France, to better compete with the US and Japan — not least by keeping living standards and working conditions of German and French workers in check.

The diktats of the EU are being enforced in the working class by the trade union bureaucracies and mass reformist workers parties, of which the German SPD is the prime example. The latter, in alliance with the bourgeois Greens, rammed through the Hartz IV laws and Agenda 2010 that gutted numerous social welfare provisions, and Germany now has a two-tiered wages system. ‘Hartz IV’ is the current German term for the lumpenproletariat, and 55% of Hartz IV recipients are foreign born. This shows concretely how the poorer European countries with a cheap reserve army of labour have served as a battering ram for low wages inside the dominant EU imperial power itself. It’s not just influxes of desperate refugees from the Middle East and Africa fueling the rise of fascism in Europe.

The horrible thing is that liberals and social democrats go along with all this ‘social Europe’ claptrap and they have no idea of its ramifications.

So why would anyone want to ever vote for members of a cabal that ‘pronounces lawful’ what the EU/ECB did to Greece? No-one should dignify the European parliament’s existence with a vote, let alone run for it. Down with the European parliament! And down with the EU!

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 23, 2019 1:48 PM

There are some half arsed opinions on here today – not happy gaslighting at the Fail and Graun ?

A vote for the Fart-age might as well be one for ice cream for breakfast lunch and dinner – or should that be milkshake. The Murdoch front man who is no more than a trained monkey – we all seen the photo of them and Fox after the referendum.

Like wise the LibDems – how the hell can anyone think of supporting the privatisers and bumchums of the tories? Unless you like waking up in shameful conditions after some extreme debauchery.

The tories – i’m just sitting and watching the extreme slow motion crash and decapitation – is this what GOT was like?

There is only one party offering change and can deliver it at a General Election.

To encourage that vote Green if you want.

Brexit is on its last legs and the City is shitting itself – they will really have to consider moving after half a millenium!

Another Joe
Another Joe
May 23, 2019 7:04 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Well you are obviously one who believes that subversion of democracy when you don’t like the result is fine and dandy and that adhering to the Globalist nightmare that is the EU, that has brought nothing but poverty and unemployment to so many countries is the best thing for Britain. How wonderful to be governed by an undemocratic Masonic elite. Defending democracy is of the utmost importance, no matter who wins, says one who lived under the “Communist Paradise” for a number of years. But then what would you know about that.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
May 24, 2019 8:44 AM
Reply to  Another Joe

Wtf you mean subverting democracy?
I accepted the result of the referendum.
Even though millions of voters were unable to vote and million more were lied to and brainwashed by the SCL /CA /AIQ and Farcebook targeted ads.

Nobody including the Smug Fart himself said anything about a hard brexit or chlorinated chicken or a private health service requiring insurance payments.

Nobody forced tories to have ther very own red lines and negotiate without parliamentry approval – the parliament that brexiteers were so keen on giving back control too – lol.

Our great grand parents who ushered in the public services we grew up on would be livid at how we bought the snake oil sold by Thatcher and her spawn including Blair and now Nige.

Yes 17 million but don’t forget the 16 million – when 33 people vote on whether to have milkshake or ice cream and it is split 16/16 – you think it fair that one person can decide for all? And then be told it what flavour?

If you and your emotionally charged caller to save the motherland are so convinced then just have a proper election and choose a government that you want – not this rancid tory/dup farce. Let the Aussie/US sauron Murrrrdork and his svengali present their manifesto that will look after your grandkids as well as the post war social democratic Labour party did.

Hypocrisy is high as the propaganda troll army batallion has been let loose on our ‘free’ media.

I’ll be waiting down Cable street for a nice chat.

Dave Lawton
Dave Lawton
May 24, 2019 4:47 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

What you do not comprehend as you must missed out on doing arithmetic at school.In the Swiss referendum to remain or join the EU it was 50.3 % to 49,7 a difference of 0.6 %.They got on with living and did not join the EU.The UK referendum to leave the EU or remain was 51.9 to 48.1 a difference of 3.8%.The remainer`s could not get on with living and so just continued whining.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
May 24, 2019 5:40 PM
Reply to  Dave Lawton

Swiss referenda are packed full of detailed facts from both sides, informed debate and a decent media reporting. UK referenda are packed full of bullshit lies. Can’t compare the two.

Dave Lawton
Dave Lawton
May 24, 2019 6:58 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Like the government`s £9.3m spent tell the people to vote to remain It was Norman Reddaway who headed the IRD during the run up to the 1975 referendum and he was one of the worlds greatest propagandists and liars and brainwashed the British people to vote to stay in the Common Market using the BBC as a mouthpiece.The British people were duped.Also were you not aware how the EU project was created and by who.You should check out university archives and the intelligence files on the subject.This information should have been laid bare.

mark
mark
May 26, 2019 3:18 PM
Reply to  Dave Lawton

Remain outspent Leave by over 2 to 1, and they still lost, no matter how hard they tried to rig it. Back in 1975, it was so blatant it was off the scale. It was more like 100 to 1. Right wing rags like the Mail and Express were cheerleading for the EU like there was no tomorrow.

Some polls have predicted that Farage’s new party could get as much as 37% of the vote when the EU results are announced tonight, and the Tories as little as 7%. If there was such a landslide, the MSM hacks will immediately start spinning this to mean currently only 37% want to leave and 63% to remain.

The MSM have already started a smear campaign against Farage, pretty identical to the one against Corbyn. The Guardian has even started trying to smear him as anti semitic, though he has always been a strong supporter of Israel.

Just as we had a tsunami of smears against Corbyn, “Jezza is a communist spy/ Jezza is a terrorist/ Jezza is anti semitic”, we see the same thing now against Farage, parroting Frank’s accusations on this page. “Farage wants to kill all the gays/ Farage wants to sell the NHS to the Americans/ Farage is a friend of Trump/ Farage cheats at cards/ Farage kicks his dog/ Farage wears women’s underwear”, etc etc etc.

We will soon see a lot more of this from the Guardian and the attack dogs of the state controlled BBC. Whatever you think of Farage, this is identical to the establishment smear campaign against Corbyn.

mark
mark
May 25, 2019 7:28 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Vote Green for more astroturfed kiddies telling us we’ve got 27 minutes to save the planet and the only solution is more Green taxes on the Deplorables, with the City and Goldman Sachs issuing trillions of Greenwash Certificates, with the Green Taliban to enforce it all.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
May 23, 2019 1:40 PM

I voted for Brexit since all the main parties in the UK’s parliamentary cartel are pro-remain, politically ignorant, and all have been pretty well infiltrated covertly by the now embedded intelligence/security agencies, the CIA, MI6/5 and Mossad, and overtly by Zionist fronts aka the Labour Friends of Israel, and the bought and paid for Conservative Friends of Israel. Labour has also deserted its historical working class constituency who have been supplanted by a self-regarding, London-centric middle class liberal-cosmopolitan hotch-potch in thrall to identity politics. This has alienated the real left and pandered to the centre-left, centre-right Remain alliance with Corbyn dithering on the fence in his efforts to appear ‘respectable’ and gain ‘approval’ from the PTB.
Corbyn actually campaigned for Remain during the run-up to the Referendum, actually APOLOGISED to various Zionist smears of alleged anti-semitism on his part and throughout the Labour party, and has now argued that Assange should be going to Sweden to face trumped up charges regarding the rape allegations. This is in the sure knowledge that this is a one way ticket to the other side of the pond where Julian will no doubt be disappeared.
All of which goes to show that when push comes to shove reformist politics capitulates to the establishment. True radical politics can never be respectable. It can only run against the stream or it ceases to be a radical force and makes its peace with the status quo. First law of political sociology.
‘’In many instances, in fact, reformism is no more than the theoretical expression of the scepticism of the disillunsioned, of the outwearied, of those who have lost their faith; it is the socialism of the non-socialists with a socialist past.’’ (Political Parties – Robert Michels 1911)

Northern
Northern
May 23, 2019 5:13 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Good post. It speaks volumes of the rotten core of the British political establishment that I’m having to genuinely consider voting for Farage.

Lots of people enjoying the view from the moral high ground today but I fail to see how else I’m supposed to advance the interests of working class people at this point in time. The Lib Dems are an utter spineless joke and Labour represents nothing much besides people who drink Starbucks every day now Corbyn’s spent the last 3 years moving to the centre ground whilst avoiding talking about it. Vote Change for anything but Change, or vote Green for some ill-thought but well meaning environmental policies that will inadvertently lower the standards of living for the working class while not actually doing anything to address the issue they were aimed at.

BigB
BigB
May 23, 2019 6:41 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Thankyou Francis, you have saved me having to comment. I could not agree more.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
May 24, 2019 3:54 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

“Labour has also deserted its historical working class constituency who have been supplanted by a self-regarding, London-centric middle class liberal-cosmopolitan hotch-potch in thrall to identity politics.”

That happened in 1994, when Tony Blair was elected leader of the party, nearly three years before he became PM. In the hustings for the leadership election he was absolutely clear about his intention to ditch the effective–if not stated–syndicalism (not unadorned socialism) of most of his predecessors for an undisguised centrism gussied up as “social-ism” (note the ‘subtle’ hyphen) and the “Third Way”. In so doing he attracted to the power centre of the party a lot of the craven, self-serving but politically adept and carefully closeted British ‘Liberal’ wusses, posing as socialists, who could not handle the marginalised laughing stock that British Liberalism had been for decades and who had joined the Labour Party, later to become the Blairites who still clog the party machine. His platform was, effectively, to disenfranchise the socialist/syndicalist working class. He made no secret of it at any time, before or after becoming party leader–quite the contrary–and he succeeded spectacularly, carrying it through repeated re-elections as PM. He might be (polite for ‘is’) a total, unmitigated Deep-Arse, but devious, opaque and–political wiles aside–underhand he was and is definitely not. The legion of secretly centrist, “social democrat” (crypto-capitalist0 ex-supporters–initially party members and then voters–who now hold him in contempt are entirely to blame for the core of New Labour rot in the party, not Blair: they had every opportunity to notice the theft of the working class enfranchisement he engineered–it was spelled out in front of them from before the beginning–yet they chose, in their greed for the spoils of capitalism without any pseudo-socialist guilt, to overlook it entirely. Screw Blair, certainly but, far more, screw everyone who enabled him and everyone who still maintains his politically larcenous “legacy”. If they were half-decent they would fall on their chic antique swords, literally or metaphorically as may be, to solve at least 50% of Nye Bevan’s “vermin” (and Britain’s rodent) problem at a stroke.

“…Corbyn dithering on the fence in his efforts to appear ‘respectable’ and gain ‘approval’ from the PTB.”

Again, Corbyn too has betrayed nothing except the wilful fantasies of the begging to be taken for a convenient ride. Given all the remarkable consistencies and patent loyalties in his public record, almost nothing Corbyn’s initial admirers are now appalled by was not there, waiting in plain view for the current approbation by the formerly self-enthused.

Like Margaret Thatcher and Enoch Powell, Corbyn and Blair are both amongst the most transparent British politicians of the last 100 years.

wardropper
wardropper
May 24, 2019 7:58 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Sad to see this so much downvoted.
I fail to see how the truth of this comment can be refuted, but I’m not sure what the point is.
Transparent evil, transparent naivete and transparent ignorance are still evil.

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet
May 23, 2019 1:35 PM

I voted for Labour because Corbyn is the only politician I would trust in these increasingly desperate times.
The only important quality needed to prevent further hell here and abroad is a semblance of integrity.
Well it’s bloody thin on the ground however as usual the bulk of the public’s knee jerk reaction will bring us into a far worse hell.
Does it ever fucking occur to people their vote often means death in far off places.
I have a very bad feeling that with the current situation in the Gulf along with a destabilised Europe, an insane U.K. with mafia style politicians and a final split between East and West, that we are headed for hell.
Brexit along with the ever insane May will just be a bad dream.

Loverat
Loverat
May 23, 2019 1:22 PM

In my view, hardly much point in voting. If you do and whatever you vote you are effectively playing along with a corrupt system.

One of my friends said to me if you don’t vote you don’t have a right to complain. Well, I disagree. If there is no party that substantially represents my very moderate, reasonable views, why vote?. And no real anti-war party so why betray my principles by voting for the party pro-war who is less terrible than the others.

I would rather argue the case and ditch any party politics. Perhaps that is what we need – a non-political/ideological party to sweep away all the crap.

mark
mark
May 23, 2019 4:36 PM
Reply to  Loverat

Very much agree with you, L. In the 2016 election, about 130 million people in the US voted for the Orange Baboon, Killary, the Green Idiot and some other nonentity whose name escapes me. 120 million didn’t vote at all (48% of the electorate, twice as many as those voting for the Orange Baboon.) Imagine if nobody voted at all. Wouldn’t it just cut all this utter scum down to size and deprive them of any legitimacy?

Voting Labour, even for Corbyn, is totally pointless. He has already been emasculated by the Deep State, just like the Orange Baboon in the Yew Ess Ayy. Don’t vote, it just encourages them.

Pablo
Pablo
May 23, 2019 5:11 PM
Reply to  mark

Unfortunately the risk is that if you don’t bother to vote, then your vote could effectively be stolen, by any unscrupulous polling station staff at the point the polling stations close or afterwards by anyone with access to the voting registers before the result is announced. (In these European elections there is in the UK a considerable delay between the ballot closing and the announcement of the result).It will be clear to those staff, which members of the public have turned up to vote and which have not; all it takes is sufficient of these votes to be stolen and cast into the ballot boxes to swing the electoral result.

In polling stations all that is provided is a pencil with which to mark the ballot paper, which could easily be erased and changed: if this is a concern to you then consider taking and using a black ink pen. I don’t have faith in any politicians, or for them to deliver much of what they espouse prior to the vote. Possibly a sufficient number of them are controlled by some means or other in order to control policy, laws and events. In some cases perhaps some of these people would not be in their exalted positions except for the fact that they were controllable and that each of them are witnesses to the very ties that bind them all together.

Maggie
Maggie
May 27, 2019 5:17 AM
Reply to  Pablo

” Possibly a sufficient number of them are controlled by some means or other in order to control policy, laws and events. In some cases perhaps some of these people would not be in their exalted positions except for the fact that they were controllable and that each of them are witnesses to the very ties that bind them all together.”

Exactly Pablo – Stanley Kubric who was very involved with the ‘system’ attempted to expose them for who they are in ”Eyes Wide Shut’ ….
https://illuminatiwatcher.com/illuminati-symbolism-and-analysis-of-eyes-wide-shut/

Northern
Northern
May 23, 2019 5:15 PM
Reply to  Loverat

It’s long since past the time that there was an organised political campaign for spoiling ballots. The system sees abysmal turn outs as still conferring legitimacy so just ‘not voting’ is not the answer. Its a lot easier to spin a rubbish turn out than it is an election being won by spoiled ballots.

mark
mark
May 23, 2019 9:53 PM
Reply to  Northern

There were 1,000 spoiled ballots at Great Yarmouth on 2nd May.

DomesticExtremi
DomesticExtremi
May 25, 2019 11:26 AM
Reply to  Northern

It’s long since past the time that there was an organised political campaign for spoiling ballots.

Perhaps because most people are smart enough to realise that spoiling your ballot is little more than electoral masturbation. it is abstention and wasting time at the polling station all in one.
Politicians don’t care if you don’t vote. They know that the party faithful will always turn out and if the other plebs stay home it makes winning all the easier for them. They will quite happily assume office on fewer than ten votes and will hope for a similar low turnout next time around for a future easy life.

foolsonrepeat
foolsonrepeat
May 23, 2019 7:18 PM
Reply to  Loverat

am in agreement Loverat….as for that a person who tells you that you have no right to complain, is no Friend imo…and worrying that Tyrants like them have a say in our future – of course they’ll take no responsibility for their choice and are unlikely to change their tune when discover they were again…Suckered – there being the True reason they dont want to hear “you” complain.

Maggie
Maggie
May 23, 2019 11:00 PM
Reply to  Loverat

@Loverat – As George Galloway said, ”Two cheeks of the same arse”’ We are given the illusion of choice.. but we have NO CHOICE at all because the leading lady or man is simply a PUPPET or the LEAD ACTOR.. Behind the scenes the same Director and Producer call the shots for those who put up the money to run this show.
There will never ever be an Anti War party, because ALL political funding relies upon how much they can make for the Military Industrial Complex, Banks and Corporations. As you say, time to ditch ‘Party’ politics. Because believe you me they are all having a ‘Party’ at our expense and lining up their next opportunity to feather their nests. There is nothing to choose between them now that the JL have emasculated Corbyn. Myself I will vote for anyone who puts the cat among the pigeons. Like Farage, not necessarily because I agree with him.. but because he really gets up the status quo’s noses. And tells it as it is.

Tutisicecream
Tutisicecream
May 23, 2019 12:03 PM

Calling it wrong and being on the wrong side of history has become the hallmark of Guardian journalism. We can be sure the MI5 [mainstream information from 5 eyes] will be busy drafting a memo for Katherine Viner on the language to be used for this current catastrophe for the state.

It’s clear that the whole Brexit issue has now become something with which to batter the British establishment with. Unfortunately for the revolutionary Brexiters there’s Boris, a died in the wool Tory, waiting in the wings.

Farage is surfing the wave, but it will be those with technocratic expertise who will grab control of this outpouring of hatred for our rulers and monopolise on the current revolutionary fervent…

mark
mark
May 23, 2019 4:54 PM
Reply to  Tutisicecream

What difference does it make, really, apart from underlining the utter bankruptcy of our political class? If Farage won a landslide, would that change anything? Really? If May is replaced soon by Johnson/ Gove/ Whoever, is that going to be any improvement?

We might as well follow the Ukrainian example and Zelensky. Frankie Boyle for prime minister. It has long since all degenerated into broad farce.

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 23, 2019 5:15 PM
Reply to  mark

mark

“Frankie Boyle for prime minister.” ???

You can’t be serious…it has to be “The Pub Landlord”. Well at least we’re part way there as he has at least previously stood for election!

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 24, 2019 11:53 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Goodness me. Have been unable to access the site all day and now I’m here I think it must have been overrun with people suffering from a humour bypass. 🙂 For goodness sake, it’s just banter. Two UK comedians? Which one would make a better Prime Minister than the other? Is that hypothetical quandary really so offensive? (I’d have thought those that hate Farage so much would have given me an ‘up-vote’ being that the Pub Landlord stood against him in 2010!)

John
John
May 23, 2019 11:52 AM

I’m amazed at how many people magically care about EU elections all of a sudden

Michael McNulty
Michael McNulty
May 23, 2019 11:42 AM

I’ve just voted for the Brexit Party in protest at Labour’s decision to dismiss my Brexit vote. Why should anybody vote for a party that does that? A second vote to overturn the first vote is anti-democracy in the guise of democracy, all to serve an unaccountable foreign autocracy.

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet
May 23, 2019 1:25 PM

The only person who will prevent the U.K. getting further involved in war in the Middle East is Corbyn. Also the thorny issue of US and China with their deteriorating relationship. I read that J Hunt now wants to invest billions in defence to come to the aid of our greatest ally, the now exceedingly dangerous out of control US.
And you are worried about Brexit, what with Bojo the clown in the wings to lead the Tories what could go wrong?
What a shame people are so fucking ignorant. What a shame they can only see an inch ahead of them.
I would say many will look back and wish they had had a bit of cop on once the oil stops flowing from the Straits of Hormuz, once the shit properly hits the fan.

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 23, 2019 3:34 PM

Betrayed planet

Up to a year ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. But I have been disillusioned by Corbyn’s silence on matters such as the illegal bombing of Syria on the back of no evidence, and his silence on the recent OPCW revelations…even if only to say there needs to be an inquiry to clarify the situation. But no, complete silence. And that is supposed to give us confidence? If he isn’t prepared to fight against a corrupt and incompetent Government then who will?

Granted, had he spoken out on such matters (and Salisbury) it would have been more fodder for the anti-Corbynites in society to abuse him, but his integrity and purpose would have been proved for many people who would now be supporting Labour but have decided they are no better than the other main parties. His silence endorses the actions of the Tories.

Corbyn should be ashamed that it has been left to former Labour MP George Galloway and suspended Labour MP Chris Williamson to vocally sustain the belief that some of us still have in what used to be valiant and noble Labour principles, and, most importantly, the truth. And look what happened to them. If someone has principles they should stick to them to prove they are genuine and not allow themselves to be browbeaten into submission. People should not go into politics if they are not prepared to fight their corner.

I can guarantee you that Labour would definitely have had my vote but for the fact that at the present time I see no substantive good reason to vote for them.

Sackerson
Sackerson
May 23, 2019 3:42 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Perhaps he’s adopting the LibDem strategy: say nothing on the most important issues so as to avoid giving reasons for not voting for him. What might have happened in the local elections if the LDs had stressed their pro-EU stance clear?

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet
May 23, 2019 4:12 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

I too have been disappointed with Corbyn however he has been betrayed by all and sundry. He is surrounded by turncoats and has been sadly taken down by Blairites. However he was our only hope and now what? There is no one with a semblance of honesty or genuine care for the country, asides from the Greens who are decidedly middle class focused.
It won’t end well.

Ben Trovata
Ben Trovata
May 23, 2019 7:40 PM

“Does it ever fucking occur to people their vote often means death in far off places.”[above]It doesn’t if corporate media are doing their job. I’m not ready to write Corbyn off,and I think to do so would be a mistake.Also,there’s plenty of support for Corbyn from Jewish Labour,regardless what the Captured Press say!

Maggie
Maggie
May 26, 2019 5:18 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

@JudyJ – I would sincerely like to know WHO or WHAT is downvoting your posts!
You post absolute truth for me.
Definite shades of Hasbera here.
Hasbara Tactics
By controlling information one can control people and the social networks. Hasbara volunteers help to police social networks for Israel. The big media are dealt with through BICOM and AIPAC, whilst the social media are policed unofficially by the Hasbara troll brigade. Priority is to stop influencers being compromised by anti-Israel sentiment.
Hasbara Troll brigade are generally quite polite at first. They pop up when someone is critical of Israel and it’s policies or interests. They target, write, engage, educate and insult. From my research it seems that there is some kind of hierarchy of trolls, they have leaders who tell them targets and guide them with their spin. Most work voluntarily but some are paid for by wealthy sponsors. They track topical keywords and persons using public websites such as topsy.com. Problems arise if one rejects the explanations being offered by the trolls, then their troll nature becomes apparent very quickly as they resort to smears and abuse. Hasbara trolls use internet alerts to warn them when hot keywords are mentioned. Keywords such as Israel, Jewish, Judaism etc. When those words are mentioned they are alerted and they go to investigate who is talking about what.
The above is from a VERY INTERESTING site:
https://educate-yourself.org/cn/The-Goyim-Guide-to-Hasbara-Trolls-from-Jonathon-Blakeley22nov11.shtml

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 26, 2019 8:17 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Hi Maggie,

Thank you for your message of support! I shall look at your link with interest.

In truth I think a lot of ‘voters’ on websites such as this get an idea in their heads about certain posters and their political stance and then vote down absolutely everything they post without even reading it to show their ‘disgust’.

There can be little other explanation for down voting certain comments which are either factually indisputable or innocuous. I see this time and time again in respect of other posters’ contributions. My own approach is that unless someone posts disrespectful or patently incorrect comments I don’t down vote (whoever they are!). And it is common courtesy in that situation to explain why one disagrees. If someone is giving a personal opinion it does seems churlish to down vote. But, hey ho, it’s a free world (for the time being anyway !).

Maggie
Maggie
May 26, 2019 9:21 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

I agree Judy, When I do rarely vote down a post, I accompany it with a question or observation. That is the way we have always done things here on OffG, But this is a new phenomena….12 down votes for a perfectly well written opinion? Totally unheard of before the new changes.
I am amazed that OffG are tolerating them, because they are clearly trolls, here to disrupt a conversation… and offer no substantial alternative.

mark
mark
May 23, 2019 5:04 PM

Corbyn can’t do anything. Vote Labour and you’re voting for “I Am A Proud Zionist” Watson, Benn, Phillips, Hysterical Soros Homo Bradshaw, “Look At Me In My Underpants” Bryant, Ellman, and all the other 30 Shekel Whore Friends of Israel. I feel genuinely sorry for you if you are expecting anything from Jezza, though his heart is probably in the right place. Some people genuinely thought Trump was going to put a stop to all the crazy wars for Israel.

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet
May 24, 2019 8:06 AM
Reply to  mark

I am anti- Zionist and very much so, there are many Jewish people in Labour and all over the country who feel the same way. It is a very sad reflection on our disintegrating society that there is such hate and intolerance across the board such as yours without any effort to forge a way through. Of course Labour is full of greedy unprincipled Zionists but it’s also full of genuine left leaning people who think an other world is possible.
I will not give up on Corbyn until he bows out which I think is likely however he is the only repeat only current politician asides from a handful at best with any decency and a soul.

mark
mark
May 26, 2019 2:51 AM

The PLP is 85% Blairite Backstabber Friends of Israel. The same goes for the Shadow Cabinet. If you find some comfort in ignoring reality, good luck to you. Corbyn is decent enough in his own way, but expecting anything or hoping for anything from Jezza is a complete waste of time and energy. It’s just charging up a blind alley, like all the suckers in the US who put their faith in Obama – and then Trump.

Maggie
Maggie
May 26, 2019 5:02 PM

WHO is this post referring to? ” such hate and intolerance across the board such as yours”

Maggie
Maggie
May 26, 2019 5:00 PM

@Betrayed Planet. But Corbyn does not stand alone… he has to toe the party line.
We know he was a fervent pacifist when he was an individual. But now (as Mark says below) the fight is being strangled out of him by the Friends of Israhell.
I would vote for Corbyn in the blink of an eye, but the rest are not worth my time. The JL managed to get rid of the only people who could have made Corbyn strong; Ken Livingstone, Jackie Walker, Mark Wadsworth, John Davis and Chris Williamson, All of whom in my opinion were deliberately targeted for removal.

We have to be get involved with justice for these people and can begin here:
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/justiceforantiracismcampaigner/pledge/?amount=50.00

This is what I want to see MP’s doing. Challenging the corrupt.
https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW

Rather than hanging around Westminster waiting for their dealer to get a face-full of coke and the latest whore.

Basher
Basher
May 23, 2019 7:14 PM

I’m a Labour voter and voted remain in EU Ref. The real fight isn’t In or Out of EU. It is Us vs Them, as it has always been. Brexit won’t change homelessness or the need for foodbanks. If Brexit was about making UK self sufficient etc, then I would be for that. Other than ‘constitution freeks’, no British national, living in the UK, will notice the slightest difference after Brexit. It is all a smokescreen, a new tool to divide the masses. It worked perfectly. I couldn’t give a fuck if I am ruled by the aristocracy, the super rich, the press barons or unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. It matters not one jot what language they speak or where they were born. I want the UK to be ran for the people, for the first time in its history.

If Labour had immediately came out in favour of Brexit, and said the result of the referendum would be honoured, then, in my opinion, a great stride forward would have been achieved. The North would come back to Labour, after the disgrace of Blair created the need for Ukip. The right wing Labour MP’s and members would fuck off. So many pros would have happened all at once. This from a remainer. Labour should have used the Tories control game to properly fuck them over. Labour would win a general election easily

Simon Hodges
Simon Hodges
May 23, 2019 11:12 AM

Liberal Democrats. What a farce. They are not liberal and certainly not interested in democracy. Progressive neoliberal imperialists with authoritarian and totalitarian leanings pretty much sums up the 3 main parties. Why do we even bother voting for these parties that openly despise us?

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 23, 2019 11:31 AM
Reply to  Simon Hodges

“Why do we even bother voting for these parties that openly despise us?”

That’s precisely why I intend voting for the Brexit Party. If anyone is going to succeed in sending a message to the other parties that many of us have had enough of their, as you say, Simon, “Progressive neoliberal ….” it must be the Brexit Party. Let’s face it, these EP votes are primarily symbolic, so, although I clearly don’t at this stage know much about other policies they might advocate in future, I am more than happy to send a signal about my dissatisfaction with the hypocrites in the three main parties and the ‘Greens’ (who have grossly disappointed me by their warmongering stance in support of the Tories’ foreign policies and Russophobia).

Simon Hodges
Simon Hodges
May 23, 2019 12:51 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Judy. I’m going to vote for the Brexit party but Farage has a way to go to map out a decent plan as to how we are going to take democracy back for the people. I don’t get why he hasn’t more openly come out in support the the Gilets Jaunes. The battle for democracy needs to take place right across Europe and the US and not in the UK alone.

Eddie John
Eddie John
May 23, 2019 1:14 PM
Reply to  Simon Hodges

Simon , I voted for the Brexit because I want out , right out.
I am not sure about Farage and I dont much care for some he has gathered around him but my feeling are if he can pull this off, get us out of the EU without all this May garbage then maybe he can form a sensible party to stand at the next general election or maybe UKIP can ride on his coattails and maybe one of then can form a party that represents the real to the people of this country .

Betrayed planet
Betrayed planet
May 23, 2019 4:34 PM
Reply to  Eddie John

Farage supported and financially backed by Bannon. I wouldn’t trust Farage nor his backers for a second. Farage is no more interested in democracy than Boris.

Maggie
Maggie
May 27, 2019 5:46 AM

Conservative backers:
The Conservative Party has published a list of wealthy individuals and
Johan Eliasch – £2.6m
Chairman and chief executive of sporting goods manufacturer Head and former deputy treasurer of the Conservative Party. On the advisory board of the Centre for Social Justice, a think-tank set up by former Conservative Party leader Iain Duncan Smith. He is among the four Tory donors to have been interviewed by police in the “cash for peerages” inquiry.
Lord Ashcroft – £3.6m
Party treasurer from 1998 to 2001, under William Hague. Ranked 54th in the Sunday Times Rich List 2005, with an estimated personal wealth of £797m. He too has been questioned by police.
Lord Laidlaw – £3.5m
Businessman and founder of the Institute for International Research, who received a peerage in 2004. According to the Sunday Times Rich List 2005, Scotland’s sixth richest man, with an estimated wealth of £498m. He is also among those interviewed by police in July.
Michael Hintze – £2.5m
A former Australian army officer. His London-based hedge fund firm, CQS Management, made about £60m last year.
Lord Steinberg – £250,000
Founder and chairman of Stanley Leisure casino group. Awarded a peerage in 2004.
Henry Angest – £550,000
Investment banker and former director of the Institute of Directors, and a member of the Court of the Guild of International Bankers. Donates and loans money to the Conservatives through City firms Flowidea and Wyler Investments. Estimated wealth at least £30m.
Dame Vivien Duffield – £250,000
Chairman of the Royal Opera House Endowment Fund and a Governor of the Royal Ballet and Royal Ballet School.
Alan Lewis – £100,000
Former chairman of the CBI Initiative for Europe.
Graham Facks-Martin – £50,000
Retired farmer and Conservative councillor.
Lady Victoria de Rothschild – £1m
A party treasurer from 2001 until 2006.
Raymond Richards (deceased) – £1m
Charles Wigoder – £100,000
Chief executive of Telecom Plus and governor of the North London Collegiate School
Cringle Corporation – £450,000
Manchester-based estate agency business
TOTAL – £15.95m
Bob Edmiston, head of IM group, also lent the Conservatives £2m but he later converted the loan into a donation. He was interviewed by the police in July.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4864542.stm

Maggie
Maggie
May 27, 2019 6:11 AM

Betrayed Planet:
Can you supply me with the evidence that Steve Bannon financially backed Farage please. I can find lots of mutual admiration but none of financial backing.

mark
mark
May 23, 2019 5:10 PM
Reply to  Eddie John

I doubt very much that even if this came about Farage’s party would have the basic organisation, administration, personnel or competence to take over the running of the country. But it probably couldn’t be any worse anyway.

Basher
Basher
May 24, 2019 6:32 PM
Reply to  Eddie John

But what do you expect to happen once UK is out of EU? What about homelessness and foodbanks? What about tax loopholes? What about closer ties to the Septics?

Eddie John
Eddie John
May 25, 2019 12:02 PM
Reply to  Basher

If the successive governments import unemployment, criminals, homeless people , drug dealers , murderers , rapist then you end up with homeless people and foodbanks.
And did you mean sceptics rather than septics or are you referring to the piles of sh*te that have blighted our land.

Basher
Basher
May 23, 2019 8:48 PM
Reply to  Simon Hodges

Farage is an ex-banker or whatever, who sends his kids to private school, paid for by his EU ‘job’. The rest of us use our salary to buy food and clothe our kids. Farage is the type of wanker that the Gilets Jaunes hate. Brexit In/Out isn’t going to win their war. Jean-Luc Mélanchon (La France Insoumise- France Unbowed, genuine Left) has embraced the GJ movement and they have allowed hm to be seen as part of their movement. Whereas, they have sidelined Le Pen and won’t allow her to hijack their voice. La France Insoumise don’t want to leave EU, they like the strength in numbers vs USA (its then that France would be not bowing to), but they do want to renegotiate all treaties signed by France, and would use unilateral disobedience to achieve it. Baring in mind that all states must vote in agreement to pass law. A genuine socialist country, from a ‘big’ nation, could make a huge difference to how the EU operates. I should say, I live in France. Mélanchon came 4th in first round of voting in 2017 with 19.5% of vote, to Macrons 24%, Le Pens 21.3% and Fillons 20%. It isn’t a pipe dream for a genuine leftist to make the second round, and then who knows….

Maggie
Maggie
May 23, 2019 11:46 PM
Reply to  Basher

@Basher – So what! In case you haven’t noticed.. They ALL have their hands in the till and their fingers up one another’s backsides. Revolving doors, nepotism, Masonic ties and bum buddies.. you name it.
They are millionaires or married to millionaires but I don’t see any criticism there?
At least Farage tells it as it is, and I like what he says.
I don’t give a damn if he send his kids to private school. If I am honest, I probably would have had I been fortunate enough to afford it. And I am a Socialist????

Basher
Basher
May 24, 2019 6:25 PM
Reply to  Maggie

@Maggie- My response was specifically in answer to Simon Hodges questioning why Farage hadn’t come out in support of the Gilets Jaunes. He knows they wouldn’t want anything to do with him, and the backlash would betray the ‘man of the people’ image he seeks to portray. I’m sorry if you found this criticism of your ‘god’ offensive.

But I have no time for anyone, who as a schoolboy was active in the Tory Party. What kind of schoolboy is active in the Tory Party?

Maggie
Maggie
May 24, 2019 7:15 PM
Reply to  Basher

@Basher. Sixteen year old William Hague ?
The point I was making, that it appears you didn’t understand, is – that they ALL shit in the same pot… and are out for ALL they can get, and bugger the people.
I knew Farage would put the cat among the pigeons so I voted for him in the European elections, to avoid wasting my vote… but will NOT be doing so in a general Election.
Though I do like what he says,and I loved how he roasted the European Parliament.
But I do not think he can be trusted to do the right thing for me and mine becasue he is hand in glove with Trump, just like Johnson and that is not for me..

Basher
Basher
May 24, 2019 9:45 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Of course I understood your point. It wasn’t like it was profoundly shrouded in a philosophical poem, a la @BigB. Unless you think I can’t actually read!! They aren’t ALL the same, although, granted, the vast majority are. You basically say, that Farage is ‘the same’ but then make out that that’s OK, coz they are all the same. In some kind of illogical merry-go-round.

I take your point about Farage being an end to a means – for your brexit needs. But, I’m genuinemy interested, what is it that you feel Brexit will achieve, for us, the people? Don’t go on about the constitution though, that is utter balls. Devine right of kings to constitutional monarchy. The divine right passed down to the aristocracy regardless, and then to a ruling class, and then to just money and corporate interests.

Maggie
Maggie
May 27, 2019 5:35 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Hi Judy, You and I appear to be on the same page. I am also in a quandary as to who to vote for. Have you any suggestions? Which IS the best of the bad bunch?

I seriously believe we would be better off with the Russian way.
”The President of Russia is head of state, and of a multi-party system with executive power exercised by the government, headed by the Prime Minister, who is appointed by the President with the parliament’s approval. Legislative power is vested in the two houses of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation, while the President and the government issue numerous legally binding by-laws.
A new constitution, creating a strong presidency, was approved by referendum in December 1993. With a new constitution and a new parliament representing diverse parties and factions, Russia’s political structure subsequently showed signs of stabilization. As the transition period extended into the mid-1990s, the power of the national government continued to wane as Russia’s regions gained political and economic concessions from Moscow. Although the struggle between executive and legislative branches was partially resolved by the new constitution, the two branches continued to represent fundamentally opposing visions of Russia’s future. Most of the time, the executive was the centre of reform, and the lower house of the parliament, State Duma, was a bastion of anti-reform communists and nationalists”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Russia

I have to confess that I do admire Putin, who I beleive is the greatest leader that any country could have. I watch everything about him – even the crass NBC (and then investigate the lies..)What he and his team have done for Russia is amazing. And how he keeps such a level head whilst beeing poked constantly shows his metal. All but the US, UK Conservatives and France admire him for his intelligence and even handedness.
Oh how I wish we had someone like him and Sergey Lavrov.

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 27, 2019 8:05 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Hi Maggie

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I agree with everything you say. I too watch and analyse everything Vladimir Putin says and does with complete admiration, and I offer no apology to anyone for doing so. Likewise with Lavrov – I mean, Jeremy Hunt or Sergey Lavrov? Who’s more intelligent and diplomatic as FM? Now, that’s a tough one! I suppose it could be worse…we could have Boris J still in that post but that problem could yet be amplified if he gets to be PM. G*d help us all.

I honestly do not know where our best hopes rest. It’s a real dilemma. On balance I will see how the Labour Party’s manifesto looks next time we have to make a serious choice. I still have faith in Jeremy Corbyn’s judgement on international relations IF he is allowed and prepared to stick to his principles. In the current warmongering climate we need someone who can stand up for the rights of all sovereign nations and not just a select few.

I think that to a large extent the cause of these institutional problems in Government has been caused over the years by so much policy being dictated by the EU. Whilst EU policy isn’t necessarily bad per se, those enacting it – politicians and civil servants alike – have become complacent over the benefits and desirability of being able to think for themselves. This has in itself discouraged free thought and actively encouraged the appointment of a lot of “Yes men and women” who may be good at following orders but not so good at producing workable orders to be followed.

Hence, the identification of the potential consequences of Brexit and what desirable and workable terms and conditions – and fallback positions – should be submitted with confidence to the EU, has proved nigh on impossible. It would appear, from what little we know, that the near three years of costly preparation including the establishment of a new Brexit Civil Service Department have been completely unproductive. I cannot seriously think of any other country that would have been less successful in any shape or form.

Judy

BlackLagoon
BlackLagoon
May 23, 2019 10:59 AM

Brexit Party are surging in the polls, and are looking to easily sweep the vast majority of the UK’s seats

The EU vote is distributed proportionally and The Brexit Party can expect, at best, to take half of the seats available. This would be an excellent result by any measure, but you can be sure it will be portrayed as the 50/50 split that the M5M prefer to spin. Then on to Westminster!

Helmut Taylor
Helmut Taylor
May 23, 2019 10:47 AM

The plot thickens…..
From your Frankfurt correspondent!