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Discuss: European Elections

The European elections are here, and Theresa May’s political future hangs in the balance. As it seems to have done for years. Her party, fresh off being wiped out in the local elections a few weeks ago, are on the brink of being destroyed…if the polls are to be trusted.

Nigel Farage’s new Brexit Party are surging in the polls, and are looking to easily sweep the vast majority of the UK’s seats. A fact which rather flies in the face of the “People’s Vote” narrative that a new Brexit vote would have Remain win.

Labour is making losses too, according to the polls, but whether that’s due to the various smear campaigns launched against the leadership, or their vague equivocating stance on Brexit, is unclear.

All this time Corbyn has been told he should be making Labour a remain party, but polls suggest there was a massive leave vote waiting for a party to appeal to its wants.

Meanwhile the “resurgent” Lib Dems, fresh off their huge gains in the local elections, seem to have safely captured the majority of the Remain vote. But since they won’t do anything with it, except what someone more powerful tells them to, does anyone really care?

As always, discuss below.

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Admin
Admin

the website has been brute force attacked.

It’s limping along atm, but we can’t post anything and the server is cutting out intermittently.

We’re working on fixing it.

TheThinker
TheThinker

Hope you can find workarounds Off-G Admin. Your truth to power platform is obviously ‘bothering’ somebody!

Mucho
Mucho

If it ain’t broke……don’t fix it. Sorry, couldn’t resist 😉

wardropper
wardropper

Agreed. It’s very tempting, in the face of the timing of this attack, to want to ask exactly who it was who thought the old OffG format was so deficient that it simply had to be changed…
Everything works very slowly for me at the moment, but it all still works nevertheless.

Admin
Admin

We had readers complaining about the old format on a regular basis – and with justice. The DDoS attack has nothing to do with changing formats.

wardropper
wardropper

Thanks for the clarification, Admin.

Maggie
Maggie

Ahh Admin, that accounts for the problems I am having. When I attempt to research the JL my computer begins to scream and says I have a virus….then I lose all that I am working on.

So- this is how ‘they’ intend to control us. by removing our freedom of speech and access to information?

I think you may need to have a look at who set your page up, and see what kind of virus they left you?

Many, many years ago, (over 35years) a friend computerised his business and the guy who set it up installed a virus that became active every few weeks so that he had to be called out to fix it costing my friend thousands. My son being in ‘computers’ was asked to investigate and found it.

Nose N Bottom

How about the US OF A stay out of it and let Europe sink on its own greed and power. Heck US is already sinking so why do we need our nose in Brrxit, ah more power more control. Enough of the mighty dollar rule and time for countries to print own money. Goodbye debt based shekles. Amen

Estaugh
Estaugh

Britain has a Constitution containing elements pre-dating the advent of the English by several centuries, if not several millennia. If you want to see your inherent rights unlawfully removed, by all means vote for your future enslavement by voting for lindems/ green/tory-lab remainers et al. Brexit is the vehicle by which the nation can reclaim its stolen sovereignty and detour society back on the road to sane, coherent governance. Farage does NOT own Brexit and he had better watch out if he tries to sell us out to the Yanks. As sovereign subjects we maintain the right and the duty to kick up shit to any governance which tries to sell us down the river. King John, Charles the 1st and James the 2nd, are witnesses to the power of the Constitution to bring the powerful bang to rights. It would be of interest to discuss the subject of ‘sovereignty’ and of ‘constitution’. to clarify their exact meanings and functions. If possible without the mud-slinging I have been witnessing in the current ‘debate’.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

Just to be clear about the results.

17 million didn’t turnout to vote for the Hard Brexiteer.

It is a major setback for them. The msm are hiding that plain truth by not posting the absolute numbers of voters.

Put that in a pipe ..

mark
mark

It seems that in most areas outside London and Scotland, Brexit polled 32-39%.
Brexit the biggest party and the winner by a long shot everywhere outside those 2 areas.
Tories pushed into 5th place overall behind Brexit/ Liberals/ Greens/ Labour often in that order.
32% (Brexit) – 19 (Liberals)- 14 (Labour) – 11 (Green) – 9 (Tories) overall.
A complete washout for the Tories and not much better for Labour.
Obviously a good result for Brexit, which was only formed 6 weeks ago. They even came 2nd in Scotland and Wales. UKIP wiped out. Labour in 3rd place in Wales. Berger and Chuka and Co. sunk without trace.
But this doesn’t solve anything. If anything, it just confirms the deadlock. The Liberals and Greens together got roughly as much as Brexit. Both sides will claim this vindicates their position.
There will be a lot of bloodletting over the humiliation and meltdown in the Tory and Labour parties.
What does this mean in practice?
Brussels is a joke Parliament to give a fig leaf of democratic respectability for the EU Commission.
It doesn’t matter. It’s not much different from the Supreme Soviet of the old USSR.
Its main purpose is to provide a cushy sinecure for corrupt, discredited, failed and clapped out politicians like Mandelson, Kinnock and all the rest.
This does nothing to resolve the EU issue.
Any Deal with the EU still has to be passed in Westminster. This does nothing to break the deadlock there. It is unlikely any kind of Deal can gain a majority there. That leaves the options as before, leaving without a deal, scrapping Brexit and remaining, and the issue of a 2nd referendum. All options are hopelessly divisive.
Back to Square One.

The Liberals and the Greens are feeling very smug now, but whether they can replicate these results at a General Election is open to question. So no doubt does Farage. If he could duplicate these results, he’d be swept to power in a landslide, but how likely is that? Probably not very, but anything’s possible.

The result will probably have an effect on the Tory leadership election, but I’m not sure what. Boris is the 6/4 favourite. If he doesn’t bottle it like last time and is in the last two standing, he would probably be elected by the 125,000 membership. So the choice of the next, unelected, PM is in the hands of the Blue Rinse Brigade.

The general instability makes a General Election more likely. Expect to see a continuation and intensification of the Deep State/ MSM Smear Campaigns against both Corbyn and Farage. They are terrified of both. The Chaos continues.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

Nice work Mark.

A consideration of turnout is always advisable – it was slightly better than last time, but still abysmal.

It went up from 35.5% to 37% (but still lower than the high of 2004).

Meanwhile the average EU turnout went up from 42.5% to nearly 51%.

As a comparision another country where there are equally great political changes – Spain, turnout went up from 44% to a staggering 64% – pretty much wiping the rightist nationalist hegemony.
https://election-results.eu/national-results-overview/

In the UK it seems that many Tories as well as Labour stayed at home.
Some Tories switched to Brexit as did a portion of Labour.
Significant Labour switched to Green.
Many Tory and significant Labour numbers switched to LD.
Most ukip followed Nigel like last time (and lets not forget a significant proportion of these are traditional Labour supporters at General Elections).

My opinion is that Labour voters from last time have made a protest vote and will revert back as they did at the last GE. As will some Tories but they are destroyed as a functional party and will have to reform – probably as a formal alliance with the LD and the peri-pathetic centrists.

In my opinion the Brexit/ukip vote is as previously, because Austerity is still in force and membership of EU is still the scapegoat. But ONLY amongst the minority of the voter base who were whipped into another frenzy.

If it all seems to lead to analysts believing that the Labour vote has collapsed than surely the Establishment should aim for a quick GE to get rid of the bogey ‘Lexiteers’
There are a handful of LexiteerMP’s but they really aren’t the Corbynites…)

Bring it on!

mark
mark

Yes, I think this instability makes a General Election more likely, but having said that, the two main parties will want to avoid one like the plague.

We could be left with a hapless minority, mutinous Tory government for another 3 years, deadlocked and incapable of doing anything, with everything degenerating into broad farce (though it has already.) It could make Venezuela and Maduro/ Gweedo look like a model of stable government. We could have another Gordon Brown type unelected prime minister for 3 years, chosen by a couple of hundred Tory MPs and around 100,000 Tory Party members, mostly old age pensioners. This will probably be a Brexiteer, maybe Johnson/ Gove/ or Raab, a choice of the final two being put to the membership. So we could have an outcome after all the horse trading, of something like Johnson getting 55.000 votes and Raab 45,000, with Johnson coming out as top monkey based on the votes of a few thousand Tory OAPs.

Welcome to Banana Republic Britain, a banana republic without the bananas.

mark
mark

Otherwise I’d expect to see some kind of pact between Liberals/ Greens/ SNP, something like the previous 2010 coalition.

Maggie
Maggie

Admin – I have just attempted to vote up Steven Morell but was informed I had already up voted??? I had not!

John Gilberts
John Gilberts

Tony Benn: Britain Must Leave EU to Restore Democracy

https://youtu.be/dQY2CHx4d3U

Right then. Right now.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

The low turnout – fully encouraged by the msm – guarantees the Fartagers party a large proportion of the protest vote, along with some expert PR and Electoral Commissioner helpers.

Take the arrow symbol – which on the lonh poll sheet of candidates clearly points to the box to put the X in.

I think also the activities in the North West deserve proper investigation. This is the region of Osborne and Brady. The media have done their part in allowing the false narratives to be spread.

I haven’t seen any canvassing in the Blairite MP’s area for their candidates – the same as in the last GE , when they hoped their votes would reduce, but actually went up.

The failure to go to the voters, by the tories as they abandon whatever manifesto they stood on and the same behaviour by the MP’s who have left their party, is the reason why we are pandering to the ‘love my country’ scoundrels.

lundiel
lundiel

Dear Liberal Democrats and Labour-Liberal Democrats…..Stop wringing thy hands! All the old farts that voted for Brexit are dead….you told us so! A vanguard of millennials marched up to polling stations on Thursday followed by European flag-clad middle classes singing the Anthem of Europe. Nothing can go wrong, victory is yours….you just have to believe, like you believed all those YouGov polls that told you what you wanted to hear.

TheThinker
TheThinker

YouGov has an interesting history. What it owns in business interests/shareholding’s, how it’s expanded it’s business and who has benefitted from it. Follow the money..

Maggie
Maggie

@ The Thinker –
YouGov was founded in the UK in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party. In 2001 they engaged BBC political analyst Peter Kellner, who became chairman, and then from 2007–2016, President.
In April 2005, YouGov became a public company listed on the Alternative Investment Market of the London Stock Exchange. Major shareholders of the company are BlackRock and Standard Life Aberdeen.
Stephan Shakespeare has been YouGov’s Chief Executive Officer since 2010. Roger Parry has been YouGov’s Chairman since 2007.[ Since Peter Kellner’s retirement, its methodology has been overseen by Stanford University professor Doug Rivers.
YouGov is a member of the British Polling Council
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouGov

TheThinker
TheThinker

Thanks Maggie,

Zahawi has courted several controversies including expenses scandal, having ties to both oil and energy companies, which may or may not be considered a conflict of interest. He brought a property portfolio of around 25 Million in and around London and voted down the stronger regulations for Landlords to keep homes in a decent home standard, no surprises there then. He was also tied to the Gentleman’s club last year which was derided for sexually degrading the Women hired to serve at the Club.

Connections to Black Rock, the Worlds largest asset Manager of George Osbourne fame, who was reportedly given the princely sum of £650k for 4 days work

Don’t know a lot about Kellner, but he does have connections, to big Media ‘Influencing’ organisations having moved to Carnegie EU after YouGov, here as one of those pesky experts

https://carnegieeurope.eu/experts/1443

Roger Parry another massive public opinion influencer moving in all the same circles interestingly now a non-exec board member of UBER…hmm following the money! Because they really care about their drivers being supported with all things employment rights and safety over shareholder profit

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Parry

A lot going on under the bonnet of YouGov!

mark
mark

Yes, now that all the old farts must have died off, all the Shitlibs have to worry about is a handful of ignorant, uneducated, bigoted racists. Berger and Chuka must be confidently expecting to pick up at least 90% of the vote.

RobG

Whilst I always find Off Guardian interesting and a much needed ‘voice’ (kudos to all involved), it never lets me post here, even now with the ‘new site’ (which visually I find much better than the old site).

I hope Off Guardian is not going the way of The Intercept, and many others; ie, totally sold out to the security services.

One can only hope that there’s still some sanity left.

Although I doubt it…

Loverat
Loverat

One possible glitch I have noted is the ‘vote downs’. Earlier my post and other replies were overwhelmingly voted up. Now there seem to be loads of vote downs on the same comments.

No one seems to like a loverat these days but difficult to believe me suggesting not voting in the European elections prompts so many vote downs. The only articles I see so many votes up and downs is on the Albania/Kosovo subjects which tend to attract a certain audience. If the vote downs are correct, I will be most offended.

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

I had a vote down on something where it did not really make sense. But we should not be naive, the system is fighting back.

All of us who are for living in peace, point to emissions from weapons production, mention that the Americanisation of the last few decades has not delivered benefits for far too many are at risk of being silenced just like artists were blacklisted and nearly destroyed who expressed one word of criticism against earlier wars, like the Vietnam War.

I am out of Europe, thank goodness. Kissinger once said that if the US does not have Europe they have nothing. The US wants an obedient Europe who buys all their weapons from the US and pays US soldiers on EU soil – if that’s not happening, destroy. It will be a long and painful ride to dethrone the US. Notice that they speak of EU/NATO nowadays.

wardropper
wardropper

Very slow internet response here at the moment…
Takes ages to load a screen.

wardropper
wardropper

“As always, discuss below”…
Dead right.
Nothing to add.

wardropper
wardropper

I mean that I have nothing to add to what has already been said, in case that seemed to be a negative comment.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

Admin
Site wasn’t connecting – ‘error establishing a database connection’ – while using my mobile. Has loaded with my wifi now!

Hope tis just bedding in glitches.

FranklySpeaking
FranklySpeaking

How so many people, especially some Marxists here and elsewhere, support Farage, a City spiv, is beyond me.
The cretin has also sponged off the EU for 20 years and built himself a nice pension. Hypocrite.

wardropper
wardropper

I think it just represents desperation for something different.
I can see us using him to get our Brexit, then we switch on our ad hominem critical faculties again and subject him to very close scrutiny…
If he can’t even deliver Brexit, then of course he is useless to all and sundry.

Rich
Rich

Speaking as a Marxist, I would say anyone who supports Falange should have their head examined. My enemy’s enemy is not necessarily my friend. Unpleasant though the various golpistas of the Atlantic Council may be, Falange represents a more immediate problem. Basically, people get the government they deserve, and the British public has needed a change of heart, if not brain, since 1979.

mark
mark

You can’t reduce politics to a question of personalities. You have to take each issue on its merits. People are sometimes on the right side for the wrong reasons, like all kinds of skulduggery and self interest. Maybe people wanting to remain to get a cushy job in Brussels in charge of bendy bananas, or whatever. You can’t avoid this. There will always be all kinds of knaves and fools around on both sides of the argument, looking to feather their own nest. But it doesn’t matter. You have to look at the issues themselves, and decide on the merits of the case. You don’t have to be a Farage Groupie or a Blair Groupie.

lundiel
lundiel

How so many people, especially some Marxists here and elsewhere, support Farage, a City spiv, is beyond me.

It isn’t for me. We’ve had three solid years of remain propaganda rammed down our throats, funded from a seemingly bottomless well of cash by some very dislikeable people with no/little connection to the UK, backed up by an army of fanatical supporters, many of whom claim to be centre left. It was the lies from the supporters that tipped it for me, especially the stupid “Love Corbyn hate Brexit” mantra. Given that these MPs won’t be there for long, or won’t even get to take their seats in European obscurity. Another hard kick in remain’s goolies was extremely satisfying.
It was the only way to prove the constant bleating about this or that YouGov poll (where anyone can join and claim to be a Labour member/supporter) saying 99.9% of Labour voters want a second referendum was a load of cobblers…..If I’m proved wrong and the LibDems get more than 50 seats, I’ll eat my words.

BigB
BigB

As opposed to supporting the corporate Remoaner and war criminal Tony Blair; the war criminals of NATO; their ‘Drang nacht Osten’ militarised occupation of Eastern Europe, and the neo-nazified dehumanisation, depopulation, and militarised rape culture that has brought; the neophyte Franco/German imperialist war criminals and their occupation of Mali; etc

Reducing an international solidarity, peace-aspirational humanist critique of the openly fascist EU dehumanisation programme and expansionist tendencies – falsely equatable to the support of Farage – is a beyond reprehensible rhetorical device. As if the invented support of the Odious Farage is somehow morally equivalent to the depoliticised, dead-democratic, militarised expansionism and neo-colonial stolen living pseudo-economy you seem to be quite happy with.

If you want a more nuanced discussion of eurocentric, structurally racist, post-colonial credit imperialism and debt domination of the Global South, whose blood, sweat, and tears subsidise our profligate disposable incomes and ersatz-techno-socialisation …feel free. Reducing serious issues to pejorative labelling – such as ‘Farage’ and ‘Marxist’ – is a dehumanist Unpeopling in itself. They are conscious, feeling, living people (and their biodiverse interspecies support communities) that eurocentric lifestyle politics is parasitical on.

Let’s discuss the issues of what our lifestyles really cost: and the untold human suffering that affords such facetious and banal uttering …equating a universal humanist critical consciousness appreciation – reduced to the pseudo-dismissive oversimplified labelling ‘Farage’. Farage is odious: but not nearly as odious as eurocentric imperialism.

mark
mark

This is the standard line of the toadying presstitute media hacks. You can’t be against the EU, because you’re on the same side as Farage, Galloway etc. They never say you can’t support Remain because you’re on the same side as Blair, Soros and Co.

People apparently aren’t allowed to make up their own minds and exercise their judgment. They just have to join the “right” gang. It’s like saying Hitler was in favour of (his version of )the NHS, so nobody should support the NHS.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

Why would anyone dignify with a vote the European Parliament, this rubber stamp for an unstable consortium of capitalist states called the European ‘Union’? As woeful as parliaments are as supposedly ‘democratic’ institutions ‘representing’ the people, the EP comes nowhere near even that low bar. The EP is nothing other than a diplomatic forum for thieves and their victims, not unlike the UN. It’s a ‘governing’ body with the power of a central bank but without the direct power of a state.

Make no mistake, the EP is not the instrument for ‘balancing of power’ among EU member countries either. On the contrary, it is a forum for imperialist machinations that serves as the ‘democratic’ figleaf for a Germany/France-dominated trading bloc whose aims are to maintain German and French capital’s ascendancy over the poorer EU member countries, principally through the Euro and the ‘European’ (read German) Central Bank. The poorer European countries have sacrificed their sovereignty on the altar of a trading bloc to ensure that a cheap pool of their labour can be used for German corporations, and to a lesser extent French ones, to better compete with the US and Japan — not least by keeping living standards and working conditions of German and French workers in check.

The diktats of the EU are being enforced inside the working class by the trade union bureaucracies and mass reformist workers parties, of which the German SPD is the prime example. The latter, in alliance with the bourgeois Greens, rammed through the Hartz IV laws and Agenda 2010 that gutted numerous social welfare provisions including reducing unemployment benefits, and Germany now has a two-tiered workforce. ‘Hartz IV’ is the current German term for the lumpenproletariat, and 55% of Hartz IV recipients reportedly are foreign born. This shows concretely how the poorer European countries with a cheap reserve army of labour have served as a battering ram for lower wages and conditions inside the dominant EU imperial power itself. It’s not just influxes of desperate refugees from the Middle East and Africa fuelling the rise of fascism in Europe.

The horrible thing is that liberals and social democrats go along with all this ‘social Europe’ claptrap put about to give the EU a ‘humane’ veneer, and they have no idea of its ramifications.

So why would anyone want to ever vote for members of a cabal that ‘pronounces lawful’ what the EU/ECB did to Greece? No-one should ever legitimate the European parliament’s existence with a vote, let alone run for it. Down with the European parliament! And down with the EU!

BigB
BigB

Absolutely Stephen, and yet someone downvoted your comment. I wonder if that person is willing to come back and discuss the Franco/German – but mainly German – “grand coalition” return to militaristic interventionist foreign policy in the ‘G5 Sahel’ …as noted below by me. Specifically, the stepping up of their joint intervention in Mali.

It looks like German imperialism is on the rise, despite a long interruption …for historic reasons. “Fortress Europe” extends in to the Sub-Sahel Central African belt, where coincidentally, or not (not!) – a large amount of Chinese FDI has been invested in supply chains in recent years.

This mission had been telegraphed by Mogherini, von der Leyen, and our very own Tony Blair – speaking at the Munich Security Conference back in February. It very much looks like the second scramble for Africa – after a decade of slow burn gestation by AFRICOM and Museveni and Kagame’s genocidal rampages – is well and truly on.

What was that about left-wing re-socialisation of EU power structures from within …but without a say? Oh yes, total hypocrisy. More like unfinished business for Tony: securing blood diamonds and conflict minerals for the TNCs.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/23/mali-m23.html

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

Yes, I think you’ve a point about the rise and ‘redemption’ of German imperialism, now that its military adventures Africa have yet to be challenged by any of its imperial rivals. It’s telling how the EU has transformed from an anti-Soviet tool for NATO into one mostly for German capital.

BigB
BigB

The Franco/German ‘Grand Coalition’ – ratified in the Aachen Treaty – has gone completely undiscussed and under-reported in the MSM. It has not informed the Brexit ‘negotiations’ – more correctly: ‘negations’ – at all. Despite their being considerable leverage of the fact that the original vote is out of date, and people have changed their minds.

Since the referendum: the EU has openly accelerated the Lisbon Treaty process – culminating in Mogherini anouncing the EU ‘Defence Union’ as a fait accomplis at Munich. There is no denying the EUs expansionism: they broadcast everything on their external action ‘EEAS’ website – Mogherini’s personal fanzine.

And yet the EU is constantly portrayed as a preservational ‘ark’ for workers rights and freedoms, and environmental standards. Never a mention of the increasing imperialism and proto-fascism. It is almost like someone is distorting the debate!

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

What I can gather from the Aachen Treaty is that its essence is a Franco-German replacement for a NATO that’s been dominated by an increasingly erratic, belligerent and unreliable US. NATO’s original purpose as an anti-Soviet military alliance is over, and Germany and France no longer need or want the US bully running the NATO protection racket that’s not in their interests.

Key to the Aachen Treaty is its military aspect (joint tanks, artillery and eventually a Future Combat Air System, etc), but crucially Germany needs French nuclear weaponry for its military to learn to handle and use before ultimately acquiring it. Secondarily, in the context of the new scramble for Africa, Germany sees an opportunity to piggyback onto France’s ‘expeditionary’ imperial experience. With all the imperialists madly trying to keep China out, Germany and France also see their chance to get into parts of Africa before the US does. Independent possession and use of nuclear weapons ultimately is fundamental to staying the US’s hand and threatening China.

Prototype ‘Euro’ state building, bilingual areas, and all the rest notwithstanding.

BigB
BigB

I think the rumours of a NATO/EU split are premature: Mogherini and Stoltenberg seem to have a thing for each other. All proposals have been joint: every meeting is co-chaired – and ‘interoperability’ is the buzzword.

The deployment to Mali/’G5 Sahel’ has been proposed as it is not a normal zone of NATO deployment. I believe a letter of mild rebuke was sent from the State Dept.

Beating the US: AFRICOM has been deployed, more or less pan-Africa, since the Bush era. Wherever Chinese investment goes in: a new Jihadi group pops up – and SOF begin to ‘train and equip’ the local forces. The biggest strategic denial of Chinese assets was the Kerry calving of South Sudan – and the subsequent civil war. Kagame/Museveni are US/EU imperial assets and genocidiares in chief – securing conflict ‘blood minerals’ – particularly in the DRC. South Africa – post-Apartheid – has continued to be the neoliberal outpost for the ‘Washington Consensus’. The IMF/WB has completely raped Africa for decades – loading it with unrepayable debts which came with neoliberal contingencies (infamous ‘SAPs’) – which amounted to weapons of mass destruction. Minor cosmetic debt cancellations – orchestrated by Blair – came as too little, too late.

I think Euro-American imperialism has done a proper job on Africa. Any Franco/German involvement will be a strategic denial of Chinese capital investment – making sure Africa remains under sole Euro-American neo-colonialism.

It is not just the French nuclear capability: but the UK’s as well. Although undeclared: UK military capability is being ceded to the EU. The UK Column has all the details; and is the only real source for this. Professor Gwythian Prins has possession of the so-called ‘Kitcat Tapes’ that were leaked to the Sun. The “shiny wrapper” is the “fluffy bits” that will make up the Withdrawal Agreement: the real deal is ever greater integration – EU Military Unification of the UK’s armed forces. The transcript is here:

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/escaping-from-hotel-california/

My analogy is that NATO/EU are like ‘bad cop/good cop’. NATO provides the hard power military might: the EU is the soft power projection and civil/military ‘CSDP’ security provider and neoliberal state builder. There is plenty to substantiate this on the EEAS website.

Maggie
Maggie

Brilliant summary Stephen, clear, concise and every word true. Who the F voted it down? They have to be seriously brain dead or have so much invested in the EU that they are desperate to bury the truth with their no votes.
As I said in an earlier post – somewhere. OffG has never been the same since it’s redesign. Somehow it has been infiltrated by the trolls.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

Thank you, I hope it helps.

Bothfeet
Bothfeet

Maybe the alternatives are even worse?

DomesticExtremi
DomesticExtremi

Typical turnout for EU elections is on average around 30%, across the 28 nations. Our apathy doesn’t seem to have been very effective at delegitimising it, nor at stopping ‘ever more Europe’ being inflicted upon us.
Apathy and abstention may get you bragging rights at a dinner party but is pretty crap as a political weapon.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

It’s the principle. People need don’t need to vote for the ‘lesser evil’ if it’s still an evil. If the electoral choice is cholera or scurvy, there’s nothing wrong with abstaining, dinner parties or no. If there’s no hard class line drawn by a candidate, why vote for them?

But it’s also useful for politically conscious people to know which bodies can or might be practical platforms for pushing radical or revolutionary propaganda that are beyond the suicidal political mainstream. As rigged as they are, actual parliaments sometimes can be this, but the EP can’t. Just as the UN or the Davos forum can’t. And everyone knows that.

The lower the voter turnout in elections for the completely fraudulent EP, the better. The more irrelevant the EP is shown to be, that people aren’t fooled by this EU figleaf and rubber stamp, then that would represent a small advance in political consciousness.

BigB
BigB

DomesticExtremi

You seem to miss the point: we will be getting militarised, globalising “ever more Europe” however you vote. Voting gives a sham-democratic veneer to our depoliticisation. Canvas your MP or MEP to oppose the EU’s Defence Union (EU Military Unification) or the Franco/German occupation of Mali. Can you propose or oppose the EU’s growing militarised expansionism? Can you oppose ‘Military Schengen’? The EU sets the timeframe for its expansionism and controls its own foreign policy – no matter how any of the constituent members vote.

Voting legitimates this supra-sovereignty and encourages the ceding of ever more sovereignty. Although tax harmonisation has stalled – the singlepoint control of fiscal, monetary, and foreign policy – is clearly the stated long-term goal. Is this what you are voting for? Do you support and legitimate the occupation of Mali, the occupation of Eastern Europe, Franco/Germanies ‘Grand Coalition’, the EU Defence Union? Because a vote is a tacit consent to these and so much more.

Voting is apathy: a tacit defence of a lack of political imagination and willingness to form a grassroots peoples movement to oppose ever more corporate globalisation. It validates a eurocentric lifestyle imperialism over the rest of the politically impoverished world. It ratifies the green imperialism over life and nature: that subjugates the rest of humanity and nature as objectified resources for our consumption. Is this what I should be voting for: my own depoliticisation and the instrumental degradation of life and its resources …leaving a challenging future legacy for those who come after me?

Or should we expand our sphere of consciousness beyond ego-centrism – and fight back …for the future and the preservation of a biodiverse humanity that the current political imaginary – not solely limited to, but including the EU – is intent to cannibalising for short term immiseration for the most ….except for an unnaccountable but controlling, very few?

DomesticExtremi
DomesticExtremi

My point is that abstention will not stop any of the above. Your only option is to vote against the status quo.

different frank
different frank

Oops. they seem to be back.
Admin please delete duplicates please.

different frank
different frank
different frank
different frank

To see who Farridge supports, lets look at his voting record.

2016

EU Vote 2667 on 25/2/16
‘Draft Bill on automatic exchange of financial account information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting Tax Dodgers again.

EU Vote 2748 on 25/2/16
‘Humanitarian situation in Yemen’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained/No Show”, Ukip seem to support bombing of civilians.

EU Vote 2664 on 4/2/16
‘Systematic Mass Murder of Religeous Minorities by ISIS’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, trying to block discussion of the matter.

EU Vote 2650 on 3/2/16
‘Stategy on Gender equality and women’s rights’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, displaying their 1950’s misogyny again.

EU Vote 2565 on 21/1/16
‘Mutual defence clause (Article 42(7) TEU)’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, putting their Politics over our National Defense needs.

EU Vote 2545 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection – Appliances burning gaseous fuels’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they really don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2544 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection : Personal protective equipment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2543 on 20/1/16
‘Presumption of innocence and right to be present at trial in criminal proceedings’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, seems they don’t want any of us getting a fair trial anywhere.

EU Vote 2531 on 19/1/16’Skills policies for fighting youth unemployment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t want Young People to have jobs.

EU Vote 2530 on 19/1/16
‘Hurdles to European female entrepreneurship’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like Women starting their own businesses.

2015

EU Vote 2308 on 2/12/15
‘Eu-Liechtenstein Agreement, Exchange of Financial Information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 2265 on 26/11/15
‘Freedom Of Expression In Bangladesh’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, failing to Defend Free Speech.

EU Vote 2013 on 29/10/15
‘Transparency Of Securities Financing Transactions’. Ukip: ‘Against’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 1756 on 27/10/15
‘Mandatory Automatic Exchange Of Information In Taxation’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, protecting TaxDodgers.

Re posted. As the first one is gone

mark
mark

Nigel also wants to kill all the gays and sell off the NHS to US vulture funds. He also cheats at cards, kicks his dog, and wears women’s underwear. Complete bounder. Ask the BBC if you don’t believe me.

different frank
different frank

Oh I see you use deflection when faced with facts you don’t like.

different frank
different frank
different frank
different frank

Lets see who/what Farridge supports by looking at his voting record as a MEP.

2016

EU Vote 2667 on 25/2/16
‘Draft Bill on automatic exchange of financial account information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting Tax Dodgers again.

EU Vote 2748 on 25/2/16
‘Humanitarian situation in Yemen’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained/No Show”, Ukip seem to support bombing of civilians.

EU Vote 2664 on 4/2/16
‘Systematic Mass Murder of Religeous Minorities by ISIS’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, trying to block discussion of the matter.

EU Vote 2650 on 3/2/16
‘Stategy on Gender equality and women’s rights’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, displaying their 1950’s misogyny again.

EU Vote 2565 on 21/1/16
‘Mutual defence clause (Article 42(7) TEU)’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, putting their Politics over our National Defense needs.

EU Vote 2545 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection – Appliances burning gaseous fuels’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they really don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2544 on 20/1/16
‘Consumer Protection : Personal protective equipment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like new Safety Legislation designed to protect us.

EU Vote 2543 on 20/1/16
‘Presumption of innocence and right to be present at trial in criminal proceedings’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, seems they don’t want any of us getting a fair trial anywhere.

EU Vote 2531 on 19/1/16’Skills policies for fighting youth unemployment’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t want Young People to have jobs.

EU Vote 2530 on 19/1/16
‘Hurdles to European female entrepreneurship’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, seems they don’t like Women starting their own businesses.

2015

EU Vote 2308 on 2/12/15
‘Eu-Liechtenstein Agreement, Exchange of Financial Information’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 2265 on 26/11/15
‘Freedom Of Expression In Bangladesh’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, failing to Defend Free Speech.

EU Vote 2013 on 29/10/15
‘Transparency Of Securities Financing Transactions’. Ukip: ‘Against’.
Ukip Vote: “Against”, protecting TaxDodgers.

EU Vote 1756 on 27/10/15
‘Mandatory Automatic Exchange Of Information In Taxation’.
Ukip Vote: “Abstained”, protecting TaxDodgers.