WATCH: Costas Lapavitsas Discusses the EU
Labour Leave
Costas Lapavitsas, former member of the Syriza government, is a professor of economics at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. Since August of 2015 he has been a member of the Popular Unity party in Greece. His latest book, The Left Case against the EU, was published in 2018. You can read Frank Lee’s review here.
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“…this is a thoroughly neoliberal juggernaut, that’s what it is, and in an embedded way – it’s not as if it’s a political choice, which could be changed tomorrow – this has become institutional reality and has become institutional practice…” Foreigner professor chappie chooses wrong word: for “become” read “always was” and add “always will be.” Stafford Beer showed the (near) impossibility of changing an established system from within. The EU’s political fol-de-rol has always been only a cosmetic concession to dampen the noise of the crowd. But his arguments are valid and his point that the the ECJ inteprets the four pillars of the constitution as individual rights has been central to spreading the misconception that inspires the widespread, uncritical enthusiasm for a totally fictitious “free and democratic” union. However, as in law courts everywhere, justice in the ECJ is only an inconvenience that must be tolerated by those… Read more »
My apologies for the redundancy of most of my first post.
I was so amazed to see someone putting cogent points for a left wing rejection of the basis of the EU before watching it to the end, then continuing to raise other points he had already addressed.
That leaves only one semantic point of difference to address: I think it is more useful to use the word “globalization” for what the prof calls “capitalist internationalism” because it and left wing “internationalism” are so radically different that the descriptors need also to sound and be written differently.
As a minor edit-button aside, the first “his” in my third paragraph under the transcipt should be clarified to “the prof’s” (or perhaps some identifier more respectful of academia {which, in general, I’m not}).
Thank you, Off Guardian, for keeping it real. It’s quite shocking to see how many who used to be on the left now supports EU, because of eeeeh…facism. And ehm…European values. Well… EU has become what everyone feared or worse, but still these former leftists queue up to praise EU. Counterpunch now exclusively posts pro-remain and shockingly Euro-chauvinist articles only. I can’t stand the new fake left.
While, Professor Costa Lapavitsas is to be admired for his geniune beleif in the practicibility. of the place of socialism being a alternative form of community social management, and his own actual understanding that it is achievable ?
But he fails to underline that his potential for real democratic socialism, is impossible in a monarchy like the United Kingdoms, or. even similarly to the majority of the very many of ” the monarchial style government’s ” established around the world – without a global bloody revolution?
And there ladies and gentlemen we have the TINA (There Is No Alternative) argument – an argument which serves as justification for the continuation of the present status quo. It is not particularly original and has customarily been the fall-back position of the armchair conservatives ever since Edmund Burke wrote ‘Reflections on the Revolution in France’. Yes, we know that human perfectibility is unattainable and any attempts to make a perfect world are doomed. Man is tainted with original sin, the world is a terrible place, the road to hell is paved with good intentions … yada yada yada, yes we know this. But in fact no-one is trying to make the world perfect, its just that some of us think that we could make a better world. Broadly speaking this petrified conservatism is a viewpoint which is espoused by those with some investment in the world as we find… Read more »
It’s easy to become quite angry about the anti democratic nature of Remain, casually dismissing the Referendum result and adopting the standard elitist Brussels contempt for ordinary people, traducing them as ill educated bigoted racists, or worse. But this is probably a trap that has to be avoided. Most Remainers are ordinary people as well, our own people, but you have to take into account the decades of self serving EU establishment propaganda. You see this a lot with people in northern Europe, particularly Germans. The EU is smugly touted as a force for good, that has guaranteed peace and social progress, protected workers’ rights and human rights and so on. Germans in particular tend to parrot this line, like of course many of our people. People from southern and eastern Europe, who have experienced the dark side of the EU at first hand, tend to have a more realistic… Read more »
I like ths.
In general, asking questions is probably the best thing we can do right now. Abandon hopes of persuasion, or even educating others, but try to bring people back to dialogue.
This propaganda effect of closing dialogue is almost as bad as the substantive political objectives, maybe it’s even worse in the final reckoning.
I am surrounded in my offline life by Remainers and Remoaners, and there is often an unspoken assumption that everyone in the room is on the same page. It’s hard not to get riled.
The military union thing is often what I try to bring up, but it is so far off their radar that I (once again) imagine myself sounding like the sterotypical ‘crank’.
Good questions I would say.
I agree with you both. In order to keep a semblance of free speech, I go to the adage “I will defend your right to your opinion’ regardless of where we might sit on opposite sides of that. Civil debate and discussion, not scream and label if your opinion differs. I too am surrounded by those with differing opinions to my own. My question was always, do you know the EU has five Presidents, do you know their names and there are over 10k people in the EU institutions that earn more than Prime Ministers and they only pay 11% in taxes, how is that fair when abject poverty, unemployment & inequality is rife. Who needs rubber stampers in back room making themselves relevant writing 3000 regulations on bowls and lightbulbs? And have you read actually read the EU manifesto, Lisbon, agreements etc – when I point out calmly, I… Read more »
Yes but but .. the single market? The customs union? The free movement? It is going to be a pain in the arse having to fill in arrival and departure slips on the ferry again. Having to stop at every passport control when driving to the Med. Declaring all purchases and being restticted in how much booze and baccy I can bring back. The EU ain’t perfect – it is as some wise man said – 7 out of 10 good! That was why it was worth staying, also it does progress under righteous leadership. Once the aristo/bankers are dislodged. There was severe interference to get the 17 millions to decide to jump ship. Austerity for 8 years was the slowly heating pan that boiled these frogs. Sure we must respect the vote knowing it was based on lies and skullduggery BUT we must retain the baby as we throw… Read more »
I don’t find those arguments all that convincing myself, DG. It never particularly bothered me when I stopped at Belgian Customs pre Schengen. Nor did using francs, guilders, marks, Belgian francs, pesetas. It was just part of the slightly exotic nature of being abroad, like the Belgians putting mayonnaise on their chips and the open display of prostitution. I would rate things slightly differently. Europe 9 out of 10 good, EU 1 out of 10. Some people confuse the two. The chances of change and positive reform appear to me to be non existent. In the 1970s there did seem to be some positive social aspects, employment rights, worker participation and so on. But these things are long gone, ancient history. The response of the EU elite to the revolts from below has been to double down and go for broke with centralised fiscal and taxation policies and an EU… Read more »
Travelling around Europe is not the same as the nostalgic Grand Tours undertaken by the monied classes of yore. Nor is it the same as the package tourists sardined on to the costas for a couple weeks of red-coatish summer holidays, to keep them cheerfully decieved that they are having a budget GT. Nor is it the same as when the boys went on the blackstuff across the pond. It is about Europeans moving backwards and forwards across the continent making a living. My friend was over from Sweden fir the weekend having been offered a job there, he works with a multinational group, and companies spread across the world, he doesn’t speak a word of Swedish, because of the freedom of movement. Tell me that is wrong. Where another of my friends was taking live crabs over to Normandy and coming back with Cheeses and Ciders to sell locally… Read more »
I think most people will be surprised to learn the euro has been such a rip roaring success.
Yup – gaslighting of the Euro has been a major project – that most people have readily believed.
I don’t buy into this one Europe idea, where we are all one big, happy European family. The EU is really about to turn Europe into another United States. I miss a time, mostly before my time really, where you could travel around Europe and experience different ways of life, mentalities, small things like an exotic currency. Of course this is not totally gone, and I don’t blame EU alone for this, but this idea of us all being Europeans is strange to me, particularly when we think about the colonial traditions in this continent. A weak Europe is a good thing in many ways. With sovereign nation states.
“– it is as some wise man said –”
Some wise men put so much effort into reconciliation that their confrontational muscles visibly atrophy.
Yeah just like Mandela or Gandhi?
Yes, true, we have to remember most people don’t read alternative left-wing media. If you read The Guardian and believe their view of the world, of course EU seems fantastic. And the Germans with their history WANT to believe in EU. They want to believe it’s a peace organization. You can’t really blame them. What I don’t like is the aggression and arrogance you find among many Remainers. I used to live in London around the referendum, after a while I stopped discussing with people. Just in a polite way saying something like “but the EU has turned a bit neo-liberal” would get aggressive responses. The problem is the radica tradition in the West is a good as gone now. The left has become liberals. How to debate these issues without becoming a pariah or burning youself out or become a total cynic is a huge topic.
Well that is as clear as a bell: utilising and ratifying all the tensions I have been stressing – depoliticisation; increasing democratic deficit; de-sovereigntisation – except one …EU Military Unification (Defence Union). Which affects the analysis of one of the last questions “Where do you see the EU in ten years time?” …clinging on to power with bloodied and broken fingernails – using every last LP40 ‘Flashball’ baton round President Mogherini has left. So, excellent analysis, in calm measured academic tones: but perhaps too measured? When one figures in the Tiger III attack helicopters and MALE RPAS Eurodrones in development as part of PESCO; the CSDP expansionism into the G5 Sahel; the Franco-German ‘Grand Coalition’ under the Aachen Treaty; the return of German imperialism and militarised foreign interventionism in Mali; the mooted expansionism through the Balkans into Central Asia; EU/NATO interoperability, Military Schengen, and Drang nacht Osten Baltic occupation and… Read more »
Well, that was an interview worth watching, food for thought and glad Off G gave this Gentleman a platform, he said what I was thinking and I feel better for being Liberal leaning with lines in the sand.
A tour de force. A genuine leftist takes the whole Remainer claptrap apart. Share it.