106

WATCH: Victim of the World Wildlife Fund

ZEMBLA investigates the collateral damage of the World Wildlife Fund’s (WWF) battle for nature conservation

ZEMBLA discovers that WWF promotes birth control programs that include contraception and even sterilization for men and women. The fight against poachers is getting grimmer all the time. ZEMBLA travels to India, where local inhabitants are wrongly accused of poaching, are being tortured and sometimes even killed. On camera, guards from Kaziranga National Park state that they are allowed to shoot unwanted people.

SUPPORT OFFGUARDIAN

If you enjoy OffG's content, please help us make our monthly fund-raising goal and keep the site alive.

For other ways to donate, including direct-transfer bank details click HERE.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

106 Comments
newest
oldest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Cherrycoke
Cherrycoke
Jun 12, 2019 7:53 AM

What, a documentary criticizing the WWF and no mention of the 1001 Club? Operation Lock, Sir David Stirling and the SAS?

See:

http://powerbase.info/index.php/KAS_Enterprises

Cherrycoke
Cherrycoke
Jun 12, 2019 8:26 AM
Reply to  Cherrycoke

See also, for more in-depth information:

https://isgp-studies.com/1001-club-of-the-wwf

Cherrycoke
Cherrycoke
Jun 12, 2019 9:20 AM
Reply to  Cherrycoke

The author of the ISGP website is a racist. The historical information he provides, particularly the quotes from experts and newspapers, is nevertheless highly relevant for the topic at hand. Unfortunately, copy and paste is not possible.

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 4:29 AM

This is an issue that causes me great internal conflict on the one hand as a “socialist libertarian” ( i don’t like to be pigeon holed but its the best description to fit my political ideology). & on the other naturalist/conservationist (i don’t subscribe to neo-liberal methods of applied science/corporate conservation “sector”). But i do fully support the preservation of biodiversity via natural processes. Clearly this ‘program’ is just another one sided leftist liberal propaganda exercise. with pesudo concern for the poorest rural communities by liberal middle class white Europeans trying to apply their liberal values to the natural world, following their grand agenda (what ever that is) to achieve their end game? Nature isn’t fair, its callous, does discriminate & diversity is something that grows organically only exists through competition & conflict via natural processes (despite some beliefs the Lamb never lays beside the Lion & tow male penguins… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 5:40 AM
Reply to  Question This

It just doesn’t work to put human interests above all other species, because we cant survive vacuous technological lifestyles without functioning ecosystems.

Putting a few human “rights” violations above nature & pandering to political points scoring is an indulgent irrelevance.

Some things are bigger than political ideology!

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 8:40 AM
Reply to  Question This

Not on this planet.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 11, 2019 1:07 PM
Reply to  Question This

Political point scoring is, sadly, what much of this site is reducing to.

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 5:54 AM
Reply to  Question This

Did you actually watch the program? The villagers around Kaziranga National Park accepted that the park needed to expand and that they might have give up some of their farmland – provided they were properly compensated and resettled properly. Which they were not when their lands were appropriated and they were evicted. The program also states very clearly that overpopulation is not the issue: it is the lifestyles of those living in First World nations – and specifically the lifestyles of the wealthy in First World nations – that encourage governments and the corporations that fund them to claim that the poor are the cause of overpopulation and environmental degradation – in order to justify taking over their lands and resources for their own enrichment. Where does it say in the documentary that people need to give up electricity, proper sanitation and nutrition to help save the environment and preserve… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 7:36 AM
Reply to  Jen

To answer your question fairly & honestly in civil debate. No I didn’t watch the entire “program” I watched the first 10 minutes & saw through the usual arguments immediately. I’ve been reading about & watching these same arguments for decades. May I ask did you read my comment in its full context? Or just get triggered by leftist political ideology? What is the population of India? This false narrative its the consumers & not the breeders, destroying biodiversity is misleading & disingenuous. Whether you are of European decent living an extremely extravagant lifestyle or an impoverished third world Indian breeding for security, really is an irrelevance. Habitat destruction has the same consequence. Humanity has been destroying biodiversity since neanderthal times. The reality is we haven’t been living sustainable lifestyles for thousand of years & ecological destruction has been accelerating with every technological advance. We’ve been reliant on electricity for… Read more »

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 8:43 AM
Reply to  Question This

Sounds like we might best view it all as entertainment before we have a stroke.

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 8:59 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

I view the comments by Question This as rather less than entertainment – they’re fatuous.

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 9:09 AM
Reply to  Jen

well i guess life is exactly that pointless.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 8:45 AM
Reply to  Jen

Got to hand it to Nazi’s. They really hang in there.

wardropper
wardropper
Jun 13, 2019 2:10 PM
Reply to  axisofoil

Hey, guys, come on.
Axis was NOT complimenting them.
It’s sarcasm.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 9:02 AM
Reply to  Question This

I just ate a Jumbo jack and rather enjoyed it. Nothing is going to change around here outside of a major disaster that brings us all together. The disaster sounds better to me than the getting together part. We’ll be right back where we started in no time. If we live long enough, we’ll have to watch it happening. Nothing is going to change. It’s who we are….a problematic species. Best to just enjoy the ride, count your blessings, be diverse, and embrace hypocrisy.

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 9:08 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

Can’t fault your analysis there.

The only issue that upsets me is the collateral damage to other species, caused by our own selfish behavior. But that’s just me & who i am, can’t help but care.

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 2:03 AM

The astonishing part of the documentary – though I shouldn’t have been surprised perhaps, given the WWF’s sordid associations with Prince Bernhardt (former Nazi Party member) of the Netherlands and Prince Phillip (whose sisters married ex-Nazi officers) of Britain – is that the park rangers of Kaziranga National Park (and, it seems, park rangers of other parks funded by the WWF) have been receiving paramilitary training, military assault weapons and training in torture methods. Who trains these rangers and where do these trainers come from? True, the program did say that poachers can be violent and the park rangers need to be able to defend themselves and the animals they protect against violent poachers, but it seems the level of retaliation is not only excessive but is aimed at the villages around the park and not at the actual poachers if they appear. (And how do we know that the… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 7:55 AM
Reply to  Jen

You need to look outside the divisive liberal politics, the divisive left/right ideology & rights/wrongs violations are a distraction.

The system is corrupt, its broken beyond repair, the very fact you have a class system where a few rule over the many is by its very existence a corruption of nature. What some lackeys & shills do to protect their masters ideology is irrelevant when you want to replace it with another regime that will pick up the batten using the very same monetary system that will only generate a different victim.

WWF & its founders & the wrongs of the police state, isn’t the question you should be asking! We don’t preserve animals for an elites recreation, we preserve biodiversity for planets & our own species survival!

Some things are bigger than politics & economy, this is a question of survival.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 8:37 AM
Reply to  Question This

Got a solution? Psychopaths have all the real power. What have we got?

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 9:22 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

The collective ability to co-operate with them or not.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 10:31 AM
Reply to  Question This

I remember Thomas Jefferson commenting on how this should be done. Do you think we can start something up down at Starbucks?

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 10:36 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

Can’t help you there, as a firm anti-ca-pit-alist i’ve never been to a starbucks.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 11:25 AM
Reply to  Question This

I think the point is more that we, as a concerned people have very few options. The violence option at this point wouldn’t go over well with anyone. Except for the holocausts, inquisitions and genocides, we are a peaceful people. We can dig trenches and wait, this always works and is a healthy workout. We can’t attack. Who would we attack? Would we all agree on who the enemy is? I doubt it. How about what the enemy is? Now we are right back where we started from. This might be better discussed down at the Pub. I will chart out the brothels on our missions journey and suggest we go on Camels. This way CNN will cover us for their ratings and we can figure out where we’re going once we get started. We can just rail against anything that strikes our fancy along the way really loudly. Nobody… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 11:55 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

Your comments make me smile, but ya know after more than 55 years of analyzing the same old arguments I always end up with the same conclusion.

I know hardly anyone else really cares, i know there’s no hope, but i never stop trying & caring about saving the natural world, no matter how futile & immature it may seem to others.

To me the natural world represents real freedom & objective truth, these are things worth cherishing & fighting for no matter how impossible it may seem.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 11, 2019 11:51 PM
Reply to  Question This

Exactly this.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 10, 2019 6:02 PM

Someone may have already posted this. It is James Corbetts info on the WWF

mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 8:06 PM
Reply to  axisofoil

All these organisations are hopelessly compromised and corrupted nw.

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 4:52 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

Corbett is as corrupt in his thinking as the corporate neo-liberal conservation sector & has just as much credibility as the conservative WWF. 0%

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 8:28 AM
Reply to  Question This

Isn’t this a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water? I don’t agree with everything Corbett says, but I know of no one who gets as much information out there for me to investigate so that I may make decisions for myself. In this respect I find his work helpful.
Do you have a particular example of Corbett’s corruption you would like to share that you consider his poster child of non credibility? It might be something I missed.

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 9:16 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

He’s a conspiracy theorist clearly not a very well informed one.

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 9:56 AM
Reply to  Editor

I clearly linked Mr Corbett’s quote in my comment! Corbett is a click baiter, he looks for conspiracy theories to prove.

LOL accusing me of being the deep states shill! gave me a chuckle.

I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next offG reader but Corbett looks for controversy for a living & some of it is just plain wacky.

The state of the planet is evidence enough, his views on population are idiotic which takes away credibility for anything else he says in my view.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 11, 2019 11:30 AM
Reply to  Question This

There goes the baby!!

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 11, 2019 11:57 PM
Reply to  Editor

OffG, I’d surmise that you are doing a good job in trying to piss off a quarter of your readership with your various quips BLT of this article. Yep, I just wasted my time telling you.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jun 13, 2019 8:33 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Is that Bacon Lettuce and Tomato?

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 5:14 PM

Sorry for any confusion. I’ve just realised that today due to switching between my tablet and an older PC both my current and older username are coming up in this thread. Frank Speaker / Frank Poster is the same person.

mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 4:24 PM

The WWF is heavily subsidised by Washington. I think last year it got funding of about $134 million, not sure of the figure. It is another GONGO, a Government Orchestrated Non Government Organisation, like Amnesty International, Oxfam, Human Rights Watch, Save The Children, and all the other phoney “charities” and “humanitarian” organisations serving globalist and capitalist interests and their Regime Change agendas. These organisations are incredibly harmful, and should be regarded simply as criminal and evil.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 4:56 PM
Reply to  mark

Phony, really? So should they be closed down, aid projects stopped? And replaced by what? The great Bolivarian revolution? Maoism? Stalinism?
Extremists of both right and left use the rest of the people as cannon fodder in their disgusting games.

mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 8:32 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

If you close them down their backers and the real interests they serve just set up under another name, and carry on business as usual. No, people need to recognise them for the phoney outfits they are, give them no money and no respect or credibility. If they just disappeared, would they be any great loss? The Red Cross. It raised $500 million to provide housing for victims of the terrible Haiti Earthquake. All there was to show for that were seven scruffy prefabs. Where the rest went is one of life’s great mysteries. A lot of it seems to have ended up in the Clinton Slush Fund. Probably paid for Chelsea’s wedding. Oxfam. If they were closed down, there’d be a few less sex orgies with poor black kids forced to have sex with animals. Save The Children. They ran bogus vaccination campaigns in Pakistan to collect DNA material… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 9:42 PM
Reply to  mark

Yes, there are corrupt and devious people in ALL organisations, governments, companies. Yet fundamentally, the great majority of people working for NGOs and charities do so as a vocation, to try and enhance people lives and reduce the suffering of humanity. Cold, callous, Trotskyist viewpoints such as yours are certainly very valid and indeed correct…but only up to a very limited point. Ignoring the vast majority of the good works of these extremely devoted people, some of who risk their lives in delivering aid, and the vast majority of them being genuine socialists, is disingenuous, to say the least Mark. In fact, you do them a huge disservice, utterly shameful. You probably don’t know any of them personally, I do, and I know the massive sacrifices and the personal risks that they take all the time. You are utterly, utterly wrong and utterly ignorant. Student politicians of your type are… Read more »

mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 11:11 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

It’s a long time since I was a student. If you want to believe in fairy stories about STC, AI, WWF and the rest, you can do. You can believe in Father Christmas if you like. But the evil, murder and mayhem they have caused, enabled and facilitated, and are still doing, far outweighs anything of value they may once have done incidentally. That’s the simple truth of it. It’s a question of evil organisations, not individuals.

mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 11:25 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Tell that to the lynched Africans and the napalmed Pakistanis.

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 12:04 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

If you were to watch the Zembla documentary, you would find it contains an answer to your (trolling) query. The local Assamese people living around Kaziranga National Park are the best people to look after (in the context of the film) the forests and ecosystems that sustain endangered species like the Indian rhinoceros, the Asian elephant and the Bengal tiger. Their ancestors were living with these large animals for centuries if not thousands of years before the arrival of Europeans and their imposition of ideologies (political, economic, social, cultural) that destroyed the livelihoods of people and robbed them of their lands and resources. As Mark says, organisations like the WWF and others are funded and used by Western governments and intelligence agencies to promote their own neoliberal and regime change agendas. Jos van Dongen’s film was quite clear on this as well in its last few minutes where the journalist… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 10:18 AM
Reply to  Jen

No wish to come across as a stalker so apologies in advance should you be offended but your views on the preservation of biodiversity are just plain wrong. I was triggered by this quote; Their ancestors were living with these large animals for centuries if not thousands of years before the arrival of Europeans and their imposition of ideologies The human population was stable for many hundreds or even thousands of years before it exploded in the early 19th century. Less than a century ago 3 out of 5 children of the Assamese people likely died of malnutrition & disease, most adults died before they were 50. Now they may still live a traditional lifestyle but with the aid of modern medicine, brought by those Europeans, infant mortality rates have lowered & lifespan increased, which means more mouths to feed & more space required to make a living, & that… Read more »

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 1:10 PM
Reply to  Question This

Why is it that suggesting that the local people living in and around Kaziranga National Park are the best people to look after the forest and its ecosystems that sustain animals like elephants, rhinos, tigers and others is wrong? Where is the problem in that suggestion? Don’t you think that the local people know what plants are there, what the animals eat, how they all behave and interact, what they do each season, whether they migrate or not, and how all their interactions form a network? If these people have lived with these animals for centuries and more, and the animals still survive to the present day, they have been doing something right for the fauna and flora. If what they have been doing over the centuries has not been sustainable, then perhaps you can suggest what is sustainable. Simply saying that humans haven’t lived sustainably for thousands of years… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 9:29 PM
Reply to  Jen

Good points. But the quick & simple response is nature doesn’t need human intervention to manage & control it, that’s where yours & the conservation ‘sectors’ methodology is wrong! Who is to say the police & park guards aren’t local people? There’s growing evidence that humans at least played a significant part in the extinction of Pleistocene megafauna. Whilst its true to say climate change is a constant throughout earths history, global warming since the last ice age is perhaps the main reason why Homo sapiens were able to migrate spreading across the globe in a killing spree. Ironic really that it could well be man made global warming that’s seals our fate ( but i digress). Its yours & WWF’s entire philosophy on conservation that’s wrong. It’s not personal, most peoples perspective of the natural world is absolutely corrupt by modern liberal values. Applied science Conservation is an abomination… Read more »

Jen
Jen
Jun 12, 2019 6:00 AM
Reply to  Question This

I did not say and have never said that nature needs human intervention to manage it – I only said that the communities around Kaziranga National Park are the best people to know how to look after the ecosystems in the park. Their knowledge and experience of co-existence with the megafauna in the park are needed. Looking after the forests and the ecosystems is not the same as intervention, management or control. Instead the local people are treated by the WWF and the park rangers as vermin, to be shot at and killed if they go into the park either accidentally or to look for lost cattle. I agree the WWF should go into extinction itself and the people around Kaziranga National Park should have input into what replaces the model of conservation to preserve the park’s ecosystems. What do you suggest that would enable humans to live in a… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jun 12, 2019 9:09 AM
Reply to  Jen

You’re very defensive, I made no accusations, none of my comments are meant as personal attacks.

If biodiversity has any chance & we can stop the tide of extinctions we as a species and civilization needs radical reform, i’d recommend looking into E. O Wilsons 50% for whats required.

As is remaining megafauna of India & Africa are the living dead & Rhino are irrelevant they are unable to provide any ecological function because they can’t be let to run free, not that there’s any free left!

The Natural World is in serious trouble sadly very few people realize just how bad things are & how serious the consequences for us will be!

Simon Hodges
Simon Hodges
Jun 10, 2019 1:58 PM

Technocratic eugenics at work on many levels not just the WWF which crops up more and more in critiques by Cory Morningstar and the anti-capitalist movement. Now with extinction rebellion forcing CO2 based climate change to the front of the agenda this will widely open the door to climate and biological geoengineering and GMO as technocrats extend eugenics to all of a soon to be financialized nature.

Some good observations from James Corbett showing that the founders of the WWF were eugenics fans and he ties all this together with other anti-libertarian concerns such as the IoT and 5G.

https://www.corbettreport.com/mother-nature-demands-child-sacrifice-propagandawatch/

https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1446-james-corbett-on-the-post-carbon-energy-eugenics-hoax/

Its well worth also watching his videos on how and why Big Oil conquered the world.

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 2:36 PM
Reply to  Simon Hodges

Based upon all the cumulative scientific data and evidence currently available Simon, CO2 climate change is occuring, with a 95% confidence factor.

Research continues and we may one day learn that something in that 5% is what’s actually happening.

However, if your doctors tell you that they are 95% confident that you will be very ill or die if you carry on your current lifestyle, most rationale people would accept expert advice and act upon it…even if they might turn out to be in that very small number of people who can smoke like a chimney and not die of lung cancer unlike everyone else.

MLS
MLS
Jun 10, 2019 2:57 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

I never cease to be amazed at the way in which otherwise smart and awake people become completely gullible dupes when it comes to climate change. Media Lens solemnly churning out the neoliberal fear porn, convinced they’re on the cutting edge, blind to the fact they’re telling the same poorly sourced, distorted propaganda story promoted by the BBC, NYT, Independent, Guardian. AGW began as a scientific hypothesis, (which at core it still is), that became hijacked by the most fascistic branch of the neoliberals. Its tentative ideas were changed into “facts”, simplified, exaggerated, stripped of the whole scientific context of modulation and uncertainty, and sold in a package to the Green-minded lay person, as an `’emergency” in need of “solution.” The solution, of course, is more taxation, mote social control, enforced population control, enforced peasant-living for the 99%. Solutions which almost certainly won’t work on reducing carbon, even IF the… Read more »

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 3:07 PM
Reply to  MLS

…completely missing the point that it was left wing researchers in the 60s and 70s who were pushing these new theories and the Establishment refused to listen. The latter saw the former group as anti-capitalists and communists pushing their political agendas rather than hard science. Now some in this former group are accusing the Establishment of having set the whole thing up as a conspiracy! Crazy beyond belief, or deliberately mischievous.

As for mitigating measures, society is not yet ready to address what really needs to happen, so the solutions are pretty much what can be achieved within those limits, for the time being.

It’s a shame that otherwise intelligent people make up fantastical theories when simpler answers are available.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 10, 2019 3:24 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

The evidence for the neoliberals promoting climate change for their own reasons is simply undeniable. Read Cory Morningtar and others at wrongkindofgreen.org

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 3:56 PM

Neoliberals will try and make money out of anything, that’s all they breathe. They would sell their own mothers. Letting them loose on climate mitigation measures is a neat idea. Finance and markets are being used by policy makers to deliver climate mitigations because incentivising greedy people is easier and quicker and arguably more effective than the Stalinist or Maoist approaches of draconian laws and penalties.

MLS
MLS
Jun 10, 2019 4:28 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

So you think these “policy makers” (the same ones who lie to you every day) are simply and honestly motivated to tell the truth about the climate?

You don’t think it’s even possible the whole thing may be a mix of partial truth, propaganda and deliberately infused hysteria?

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 5:10 PM
Reply to  MLS

I’d say the science is not settled, but “the whole thing” is currently a mix of mostly truth based upon what we know, plus some propaganda to suit certain vested interests (e.g. promoting their solutions not the best solutions), as well as a good dollop of hysteria because our modern media loves that and clickbait to drive their revenues.

Try actually talking at length with people who are climate scientists or working on genuine solutions, then you’ll see that they are mostly very down to earth people, caring socialists working passionately to reduce or remove adverse human impact upon the planet.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 5:12 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

I’m on an old PC and my old username is saved, Frank Speaker / Poster is the same person; me.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 10, 2019 4:03 PM

Clearly true admin. But at the same time, there’s virtually no doubt that climate shift really is happening, whatever the gangster-capitalist-shysters-who-are-always-with-us may think about how they can swindle profits from it.

People of my age have actually, personally witnessed climate shift gathering pace over our lifetimes. The only really uncertain, inherently unpredictable matters are: how fast will it go; how will things change exactly, in any given place in the world; how will things re-stablise eventually; and how might we help the process to be as mild and un-disastrous as possible. (My hunch is that it’s now too late to stop it altogether. But like all other ideas about climate shift, that is just a hunch. An informed one, as the best ones are, but still just a hunch.)

MLS
MLS
Jun 10, 2019 4:26 PM

We need to re-think the way we see climate. The idea of climate change as a dangerous new development is at the heart of the neoliberal spin version. It’s nothing to do with the science of climate. Let’s agree to put aside ALL the current climate panic and just look at the solid facts we currently actually know. 1. Climate is ALWAYS changing, and always has. 2. For most of the several billions of years of earth history there has been NO ice anywhere, not even on the poles. 3. We are currently living in a period of unusual cold known as the Quaternary Glaciation. 4. The QG has been characterised so far by periods of deep cold (ice ages) followed by periods of relative warmth (interglacials). 5. In recent history the temperatures have shifted from the Medieval Warm Period (warmer than it is now, less polar ice), through to… Read more »

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 10, 2019 6:20 PM
Reply to  MLS

You forgot an item on your explainaway list MLS – perhaps because it doesn’t fit the list’s tendentious purpose:

8. Human activity has been releasing excess greenhouse gases from long-term sequestration at an increasing rate for some centuries now; millennia, even, according to where you start the account. But of course such a thing couldn’t possibly trigger off a catastrophic climatic tipping point event could it? No, of course not; simply not possible; because, as Jim Kunstler often quips: we don’t want it to be like that, so it just CAN’T be. Because we don’t want it. (Even though the geological record shows evidence of previous such sudden catastrophes…)

Ariadne Morgana
Ariadne Morgana
Jun 10, 2019 7:04 PM

Read his post. Actually READ IT. Even if we accept AGW 100%, the only reason to believe that warming would be dangerous is if we also accept the idea of positive feedbacks in the system.

There is no evidence for such feedbacks. Everyone admits that. They are just assumed as being probable and then added to the models.

That’s how you get catastrophic warming , but just adding in an assumption for which there is literally no evidence.

It’s crazy.And people are going to throw their freedoms and livelihoods away for this!

Why the hell are you so prepared to accept the word of people like Mann – a proven fraudster and neoliberal hack – and Monbiot (ditto)?

Just calmly consider WHY you believe this, and if you just might have been conned.

BigB
BigB
Jun 10, 2019 11:39 PM
Reply to  MLS

MLS The neoliberal framing of the so-called ‘climate economy’ is purely so they can manipulate a carbon price, carbon tax, swaps and offsets …and find a tradable market value for natural ecosystems. This they can fit in their existing financialisation system of green bonds and eco-derivatives. What they cannot do is solve the broader Human Impact crises – because the for profit, private property, perpetual extractivist, expansionist, and exploitation economy is the problem …and cannot be any part of a truly humanist solution. Some aspects of the Human Impact convergence crises are: Debt: militant monetarism – up $150tn since 2003; up $70tn since 2008. The basic problem is overcapitalisation and overfinancialisation destroying productive economics and suppressing any possibility of real recovery. Primary resource and energy depletion: the economy is biophysical – not financial. It relies oh a source to sink throughput of finite resources and energy. Extractivism has quadrupled since… Read more »

Ariadne Morgana
Ariadne Morgana
Jun 10, 2019 4:33 PM

I don’t think anybody will dispute the weather has been warming the past century (though it has slowed/stopped over the past fifteen years or more). The point is this isn’t unusual or scary. Climate shifts all the damn time. if you had been living in the 8th century you would have seen a far more intense warming kick off. And if you’d lived in the 15th century you’d have seen the winters deteriorate perceptibly over your lifetime.

It’s normal for climate to change. Fucking bizarre the way the propagandists have made people scared of something so totally natural.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 10, 2019 6:28 PM

Warming has stopped over the past fifteen years? Really? Where are you; on Mars? 🙂 According to the long-period oscillations between glacials and interglacials, brought on by long-period cyclical variations in the Earth’s orbit, and by cyclical variations in sun-spot activity, the Earth should be sliding into a new cooling period, as it has on this long cycle many times before. But this time it isn’t. Wonder why…

Ariadne Morgana
Ariadne Morgana
Jun 10, 2019 6:58 PM

The warming halted some time ago. They just try to hide the fact with deceptive headlines and bogus statistics that carefully elide certain data.

You must recall the claims that the oceans have absorbed all the heat and that’s why the planet isn’t warming?A complete piece of guesswork for which almost zero data exists.

Glaciers in Yosemite are growing. So is sea ice in some places.

They DO lie to you. Just check out the other side of the story. The scientists who don’t agree by can’t get papers published. Don’t be brainwashed into self censoring, that’s exactly what the fake Green neoliberals want

binra
binra
Jun 11, 2019 12:14 AM

Data can be and is doctored. I do not need to dispute what I choose not to accept. If manmade change to weather is occurring I would call out weather manipulation technologies that have been ‘internationally banned’ as weapons for many decades but not everyone complies with ‘international law’. The possibility of pivotal influence on already flowing relational balance may be able to divert – for example – the jet stream – to bring the ‘polar vortex’ down to mix with tropical air. The result would be extreme weather. However I also hold that this happens anyway periodically – and that our Cosmology has it backwards – as does our Biology. The terrain is the inducer of actions or events in resonant pathways of expression. the Galactic or in local terms the Solar Field is the context in which and of which we are experiencing the ‘shifting cyclic spirals of… Read more »

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Jun 10, 2019 5:24 PM

It is such a strange form of logic (or lack thereof) that assumes simply because as we know capitalism and the wealthy oligarchs at the top of the capitalist pyramid will try to weaponize and profit from ANYTHING whatsoever – including the very destruction of the habitability of the planet – that somehow any evidence they are actually doing just that somehow invalidates or indicates manipulation or bias in the scientific consensus behind climate-change. Obviously both things can be true simultaneously. The climate can be reacting in actual real-time (not geologic time) to our massive inputs of carbon dioxide, AND those profiting from the current economic regime profiting from this can and are also doing everything in their power to profit from any attempts to address our dilemma or consider alternatives to business as usual. Having spent years studying the science, including the always unfolding new research, and including the… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 5:51 PM
Reply to  Gary Weglarz

Obviously both things can be true simultaneously

Indeed. And I also think there’s an awful lot of ‘shooting the messengers’ going on. Yes. some have vested, even nefarious, interests at heart, but most others in my opinion do not, they are just good and honest people trying to do good works.

mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 4:31 PM

Should be a bonanza for Goldman Sachs, trading in Global Warming Certificates like medieval Papal Indulgencies, with a Green Taliban to enforce it all. And plenty of Macron style Green Taxes for all the peasants.

BigB
BigB
Jun 10, 2019 5:04 PM

As I warned many, many, moons ago. What confuses people though, is that the science is sound – the agenda not. Too many people can only identify that the agenda is nepharious: therefore the science must be corrupt too? Take the Club of Rome: funded by a corporate fascist who’s who. They sponsored, among others, the much dissed “Limits to Growth” in 1972. Corrupt funding = corrupt science? Well, no. The LtG now has over 40 years of corroborating evidence; has been re-visited; and had several meta-analysis (including by Charles A S Hall – who is definitely not corrupt) to verify it. The underlying science – the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics – is sound, even common sensical …we cannot have unlimited growth within a finite world system. The axiom that should end all talk of capitalism: but doesn’t because of an imaginary negentropic economy that is the socio-political basis of… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 5:48 PM
Reply to  BigB

Excellent clarification and arguments BigB.

The Thinker
The Thinker
Jun 12, 2019 6:06 PM
Reply to  BigB

This is an interesting read at Principia Scientific, has a lot of salient points, especially BTL.

binra
binra
Jun 10, 2019 11:32 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

You need to be aware that an inner core of the ‘establishment’ is completely without identification or allegiance to anything excepting as it is useful to them for marketising and weaponising – ie possession and control. The polarised view of social and political thought is a manipulative deceit that serves the politics of mind capture – the controllers and their golems, or predators and prey/assets/proxies. The simple answer is where the problem is stripped of its concealment. But to those who package toxic debt in complex financial or other instruments, to the simpleminded trust in a rigged systemic substitution for truth (aka ‘lies’), the apparent simplicity is an illusion that suits them so as not to face, address or own their own complicity. A captured ‘media’ attempts to control and direct the narrative. You are unwise to accept anything from such as source at face value. The mind is predicated… Read more »

mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 4:28 PM
Reply to  MLS

Don’t worry, though, Al Gore and Di Caprio and Emma Thompson will still be able to jet set around the planet picking up their Global Warming Awards. That’s the main thing.

binra
binra
Jun 10, 2019 11:05 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

Nothing to do with science and everything to do with belief and opinion and the attempt to manipulate the opinion and belief of others. Probabilities are based on currently asserted or accepted variables. Real science has been replaced with (computer) modelling. The ‘Model’ demands that facts be conformed to comply or be sacrificed. The ‘Model’ is working extremely well in an extremely distorted way for an extremely few who are so disproportionately wealthy or powerful as to exert controlling influence on everything downstream – or in simple parlance – the foxes run the henhouse. You are under the religion of experts in a time of unparalleled fragmentation and corruption. Your ‘worldview’ demands ‘conformity and compliance’ and seeks power to enforce it by fair means or foul, under the unquestioned presumption of being right. That is your payoff. That is what you get out of it. Or to put it the… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 11:37 PM
Reply to  binra

Not at all Binra.

I’ve said earlier that the actual truth of the matter, climate science, may indeed end up laying in the 5% contrarian view, or beyond, rather than in the 95% ‘certainty’ opinion.

However, most of us are not experts in these fields. Therefore, as we seek guidance, for example, from our doctors about an ailment, and they might tell me with 95% confidence that unless I change my unhealthy ways, I’ll progressively become more ill, or even die, then rather than focusing on my contrarian reaction in the 5% segment and thinking “what a load of bollocks, I’m not dumb, and he’s wrong, he’s only selling drugs for Big Pharma and to give himself a nice pension”, well, I, and most likely you, would take with gratitude his 95% confident diagnosis, take the meds, and hope for the best.

Frank

binra
binra
Jun 11, 2019 12:37 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Nothing is more blinding than presuming to know – and nothing more binding than presenting oneself as an expert. If you have a medical advisor who considers your unhealthy ways as part of your condition you are fortunate. Most regard patients as lacking pharmaceutical management and interventions that run in lockstep with the ‘unhealthy ways’. That are in fact a leading cause of sickness and death under guise of saving us from sickness and untimely death. I don’t have to be contrarian to refuse to accept my doctor’s training as anything other than a highly specific technician’s toolbox. Tests, results; medications. Adverse effects; medications. The medical state coins the term contrarian because its sees a non compliance with top down mandate. Look very closely at the way language is misused to frame deceits. It is invisible UNTIL you see it. I called it the state because the state is effectively… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 11, 2019 5:06 PM
Reply to  binra

I do actually have an excellent doctor who will always, unless it’s something immediately urgent, look at the situation holistically. He’s encouraged me to meditate, and prescribes herbal remedies / phytotherapy when appropriate in the first instance. When needed, the conventional medicine is applied. He’s probably saved my life with his approach. That’s why I may have more trust in experts than others.

binra
binra
Jun 11, 2019 7:15 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

And you are the one who decides to accept his advice. Is this because you give power away or because you sense a genuine relationship? I have trust in what I decide to give trust to – and not a blank cheque for any seeming expert in any specialisation. I am not addressing your personal relationships but the underlying issue of giving power away from a presumption of powerlessness – to whatever form of ‘protection’ is attracted or invoked by such a state. Before the information presented is acted on, I recommend noticing the way in which it is presented. manipulative intent has noticable signature characteristics. No one need be expert to ‘smell a rat’ – but discernment depends on honesty or transparanecy of self. If we don’t WANT to hear the truth then we will be attracted to hearing something ELSE and investing it with identity. No one welcomes… Read more »

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 2:39 PM
Reply to  Simon Hodges

I used to have respect for Corbett, on political and economic matters at least. Now it appears that he’s gone loopy with daft theories.

Question This
Question This
Jun 11, 2019 4:40 AM
Reply to  Simon Hodges

Corbett has no credibility, he believes population isn’t a problem & bases his entire theory on Malthusianism.

Ecologically (pure science) speaking humanity has surpassed its carrying capacity hundreds if not thousands of years ago we are just waiting for the wrath of mother to show her displeasure & enforce the law.

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 1:48 PM

Off topic, can’t see anywhere else to post my question:
is OffG planning to include an article or opinion on the arrest and beating up by the Russian authorities of the journalist Golunov?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 10, 2019 1:52 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

Write one and send it to us. What point are you trying to make?

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 2:22 PM

? No too much of a point really, other than it’s pretty shocking news and perhaps other journalists might make a statement in support of him?

John
John
Jun 10, 2019 2:27 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

I think we’d have to wait to see if the journo deserved it or not quite frankly. I have a sinking suspicion this golunov may be a “liberal”

John
John
Jun 10, 2019 2:34 PM
Reply to  John

Nah fuck him he appears to be a liberal who has been given a coordinated press campaign by the liberal papers. I bet they claim Putin knows him personally or ordered it like they claimed of every Russian leader in existence since 1917 except for the two good little boys Gorbachev and Yeltsin who had very few claims made against them

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 3:12 PM
Reply to  John

Ah, now I get it! Journalists with whom I may disagree can be beaten up and I don’t care? So you support corruption, because that’s what he worked on exposing?

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 10, 2019 4:23 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

Where exactly are you getting your gold-plated sure-fire information about Golunov, Frank? Personally, I’ve yet to see any complete, authoritative account of the story that seems trustworthy. (Please note that – like Wikideceivia – I don’t count the Permanent Bullshit Blizzard of the Anglozionist empire’s lamestream media presstitutes as even getting onto the first ladder-rung of reliable reportage. They’re 100% discounted. I’d have to see something more reliable than their politicised, weaponised mind-sewage, to take it seriously. And as for Berkshire Hunt’s crocodile tears over Golunov…)

But yes, in principle, ALL people doing journalism, whether official professionals or citizen volunteers, should have their sacred right to investigate and report supported unequivocally.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 6:00 PM
mark
mark
Jun 10, 2019 4:32 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

Sounds like another Magnitsky martyr.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 6:00 PM
Reply to  mark

Despicable.

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 2:49 PM
Reply to  John

As we rightly support Assange, we should be calling out the framing of a journalist on drugs charges who was investigating well connected Russian criminals. Not of the same scale, I agree, but it’s the principles at stake. As much as I may admire Russia for certain things, it has remained stubbornly corrupt and criminal over the decades and it needs calling out.

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Jun 10, 2019 5:40 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

Frank Poster – So do you have any credible evidence that this “arrest” is “news” – in other than in the way the recently reported murders of multiple N.Korean’s recently was – “news” – reported throughout Western MSM as fact of course – and of course believed by everyone who is “respectable” – that is until said ‘dead people’ showed up quite alive. How odd indeed. Evidence is hardly to be assumed simply because a story is published by Western media in case you haven’t been paying attention. What if any reputable “evidence” do you have to confirm these events? By the way, what does the BBC have to say lately about the whereabouts of the Skripnals who it appears UK authorities have simply disappeared in complete violation of their rights as Russian citizens ? Or does the BBC simply not care to ask that question since that particular anti-Russian… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 10, 2019 5:58 PM
Reply to  Gary Weglarz

Gary, I’m not comparing the Skripals with Golunov. The whole Skripal affair is a disgraceful and dangerous western agencies / Mossad psychop.

Back to Golunov, RT is reporting it, and they are also referring to 3 Russian newspapers reporting it. Based on all that, plus seeing photos of him behind bars and looking extremely anxious in one, and crying in the other, all together it’s reasonable to assume that he’s been banged up in a cell.

Given what he’s been investigating, it’s also not unreasonable to assume that he’s been framed in order to silence him.

mark
mark
Jun 12, 2019 2:17 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

In view of what Assange was reporting, it is not unreasonable to assume that he was framed in order to silence him – but all the political and media establishment in the UK/ Sweden/ Australia/ US, seem unable or unwilling to make the connection.

Neither of them were released after a couple of days, with the support of the mainstream media, and those involved in the case being suspended/ investigated/ dismissed.

It is instructive to note the differences in how these cases were dealt with by “authoritarian” Russia, and those paragons of judicial probity, UK/ Sweden/ Australia/ US.

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 2:47 AM
Reply to  Frank Poster

The way to become a writer or a journalist is to, um, do what the moderator suggests.

mark
mark
Jun 12, 2019 2:09 AM
Reply to  Frank Poster

They did. Russian mainstream media broadly supportive of the Russian government, like RT, criticised the arrest.

How does this compare with the protracted MSM campaigns of smear and vilification against both Assange and Snowden?

Frank Poster
Frank Poster
Jun 10, 2019 3:09 PM

Write one and send it to us

What point are you trying to make?!

Especially to a non-journalist or writer.

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 1:25 PM

I think the issue is that whenever a journalist in Russia is arrested by the police on supposed drug charges and they rough up the unfortunate reporter, their actions somehow are a microcosmic example of how the Russian government under President Vladimir Putin hounds seekers of truth, and of how little freedom Russian people have to criticise the Kremlin. Whereas when the Australian Federal Police invade the home of a journalist called Annika Smethurst and toss things around to find evidence that could reveal the name of the whistleblower supplying information about government spying, or raid the headquarters of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation to find files that might also reveal the names of whistleblowers who spoke to the ABC about Australian troops committing human rights violations in Afghanistan, those actions in no way reflect badly on the Australian government and the state of press freedom and democracy in the Land… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 11, 2019 7:47 PM

I’m making the point that he was an innocent journalist who was framed for his investigations. Clearly the Russian Interior Minister has looked into it and agreed, he’s just dropped the case:

https://www.rt.com/russia/461600-drug-case-against-russian-journalist-dropped/

By the way, what point were YOU trying to make? Really?

mark
mark
Jun 12, 2019 2:01 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

This is a business that has just blown up and more details will emerge over the next few days. This character seems to be an alternative media figure critical of the government, based in Latvia. He was arrested on drug charges on what seems to be weak evidence. He was released from custody and it looks like the case against him will be dropped. It is suggested that evidence against him was planted. This may or may not be true. The arrest was criticised by mainstream Russian media that is normally dismissed as state controlled. They supported this figure. If there was some conspiracy against him, it was thrown out very quickly after the evidence was examined. What is instructive is the comparison with the Assange case, or Snowden. Politicians and public figures in Russia did not call for this individual to be murdered or assassinated, as is the case… Read more »

George
George
Jun 10, 2019 4:39 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

I don’t know the details of this Golunov case but on following up on this article,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48580217

I read:

“Much of Russia’s media is controlled by the state and Russia is ranked 83rd out of 100 countries for press freedom by Freedom House.”

Freedom House? Over to Wiki:

“Freedom House is a U.S.-based 501(c)(3) U.S. government-funded non-governmental organization (NGO) that conducts research and advocacy on democracy, political freedom, and human rights.”

The “501(c)(3)” just means the organisation is exempt from federal income tax.

Wiki continues:

“It describes itself as a “clear voice for democracy and freedom around the world”, although critics have stated that the organization is biased towards US interests.”

A U.S.-based U.S. government-funded (but also “non-governmental” organization) may be biased towards US interests? Get away!

Jen
Jen
Jun 11, 2019 12:52 AM
Reply to  Frank Poster

Ivan Golunov writes for Meduza, a Russian-language news organisation based in Riga, in Latvia.

Meduza’s Managing Director is Kevin Rothrock who also writes for The Moscow Times. In previous life before 2012, Rothrock was a research assistant at the American Enterprise Institute.

Need I say anything about the American Enterprise Institute or will this link suffice?

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 11, 2019 7:45 PM
Reply to  Jen

Irrelevant. The Russian Minister of the Interior has just intervened and dropped the case against him, as eported on RT.
https://www.rt.com/russia/461600-drug-case-against-russian-journalist-dropped/

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jun 11, 2019 7:44 PM
Reply to  Frank Poster

I rest my case:

Drug case against Russian journalist dropped by Interior Minister

To the many apparently ‘open-minded’ Trotskyists here, sorry, you are anything but open minded. You are stuck in the primitive binary thinking of USA=satan, Russia=angel.

Yes, the modern US and UK are appalling bullies, imperialists, murderers, torturers. And Russia is badly maligned by the west, but framing every event in the bipolar good/bad narrative is not helpful in ensuring that great and christian Russia improves further. Evil exists, even in Russia, and it needs calling out.