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Lunar Narratives: Landing on the Moon, Politics and the Cold War

Binoy Kampmark

Werner von Braun (1912-1977) the German-born American rocket engineer with model rockets. He was director of the American Army team that put the first satellite Explorer I into space in 1958. (Photo by © Hulton-Deutsch Collection/CORBIS/Corbis via Getty Images)

Anniversaries are occasions to distort records. The intoxicated recounting of the past faces a record in need of correction. Couples long-married hide their differences before guests. Creases are covered; the make-up is applied generously. Defects become virtues, if, indeed they were ever there to begin with.

In historical commemoration, the same is true. The moon landing anniversary his weekend was given a vigorous clean-up, with the Cold War finding a back seat when it was, in fact, the main driver.

The moon project was a fundamental political poke, soaked by competitive drives. The science was the instrumental ballast and has come to provide the heavy cosmetics to romanticise what is, at best, an effigy. When President John F. Kennedy proclaimed his wish for the United States to land a man on the moon and safely return him by the end of the 1960s, he was google-eyed by Cold War syndrome.

The Soviets had been making advances in the space race, and paranoia at Red exploits was catching. A godless state had launched the nerve-wracking Sputnik in 1957 and in 1961 put Yuri Gagarin into space.

While the Soviet Union is only mentioned once in his speech at Rice University, the competitive dig, the putdown, did come. Balance had to be restored. “Within these last 19 months at least 45 satellites have circled the earth. Some 40 of them were ‘made in the United States of America’ and they were far more sophisticated and supplied far more knowledge to the people of the world than those of the Soviet Union.”

When he mentions being “behind for some time in manned flight”, there is little doubt who the bogeyman to beat is. We do not, he said reassuringly to his audience, “intend to stay behind, and in this decade, we shall make up and move ahead.”

Combating the Soviet Union, and communism more broadly, was simply one aspect of an aggrandised fist fight, to be fought on the ground, the seas, and in space. While it has become a charming conceit to suggest that JFK had intended to take the brakes off US commitments to stemming the Communist contagion in Vietnam, his administration saw a spike in the deployment of resources and advisors to the South. He had to be seen to be aggressive in all theatres of endeavour.

Domestically, selling the moon mission was not popular, and the post-landing effort to scrub away voices of opposition in the historical record has been vigorous. Space historian Roger Launius notes the sentiment at the time. “Consistently throughout the 1960s a majority of Americans did not believe Apollo was worth the cost, with the one exception to this poll taken at the time of the Apollo 11 lunar landing in July 1969.”

In 1964, the sociologist Amitai Etzioni published the despairing, blistering work that deserves a good dive into. The Moon-Doggle: Domestic and International Implications of the Space Race notes scientific opposition to the space program, at least in so far as it was not balanced. The space race, with its immortalisation of gadgets, glorified “rocket-powered jumps” and “extrovert activism”, had been “used as an escape”. The obsession with the moon delayed “facing ourselves, as Americans and citizens of the earth.”

Earthly concerns were considered more pressing. Civil rights leaders in the United States feared a loss of focus. While a million people gathered along Florida’s Space Coast to watch the launch of Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969, some 500 protestors, mostly African-American and led by Rev. Ralph Abernathy, paid a visit to the Kennedy Space Centre. He had in tow a wooden wagon and two mules, a deliciously confronting contrast between the Saturn V rocket and the impecunious life. “$12 a day to feed an astronaut, we could feed a child for $8,” read the protest signs.

NASA administrator Thomas Paine ventured out to meet Abernathy, subsequently recounting the concerns of the reverend. “The money for the space program, he stated, should be spent to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, tend the sick, and house the shelterless.”

Behind the project lay other dark forces whose roles have been obscured by propagandists of a romantic lunar narrative. The amoral genius that was Wernher von Braun, given the moniker of Missileman, was an illustration that science might well lack an ethical compass, even if it worked. Tom Lehrer’s lines from 1967 were hitting in their aptness: “Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? / That’s not my department, says Wernher von Braun.”

Kennedy was himself keen to justify the reason for going to the moon not because it made sense for humans to do so but because it was hard. His Rice University address couples banalities, the human urge to engage and achieve the impossible expounded. “Why climb the highest mountain?” he rhetorically poses. Or fly the Atlantic? “Why does Rice play Texas?”

Going to the moon was a goal that would “serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.”

What mattered was getting the job done with a kind of mechanistic fanaticism: working labourers to death in Mittelbau-Dora in making V-2 rockets to target civilians during the Second World War was as worthy as beating the Soviets in the space game. In Disney’s 1955 television production Man and the Moon, von Braun, the then director of development at the US Army Ballistic Missile Agency, spoke of a nuclear-powered space station that would propel Americans to the moon.

A decade before, von Braun was part of a scooping operation conducted by US personnel to nab the best and brightest of German science, a process that did much to ensure a good deal of whitewashing of industrialised murder. In the gathering were the signs of the Cold War to come; the Soviets conducted their own version of Operation Paperclip, plundering the brainboxes of Teutonic engineering. To the victors went the corrupted spoils.

Von Braun was treated and feted, plied with generous budgets and resources. The missiles duly came. He led a team that developed Redstone, the first US ballistic missile capable of propelling a nuclear warhead to distances of 250 miles. Then came the Jupiter-C in 1958, which shot the first US satellite, Explorer 1, into space.

The famed Saturn V rocket was created while von Braun was director of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Centre. The line between concentration camp and the moon landing was established, as was the role of the smooth scientist communicator trading on human wonder.

Colossal human stupidity, and moral shakiness, tend to find ways into the grandiose and the grand. As a species, hubris has proven a common trait. Technological mastery comes torrentially more easily than luminous ethical insight.

France’s courtly Charles De Gaulle was reflective on this point: humans might well have mastered the way of getting to the moon but it could hardly be said to be far. “The greatest distance we have to cover still lies within us.”

Humankind has yet to master its more terrestrial problems. Any future exploration and colonisation is bound to see humans bringing their own complement of problems to the frontiers of space. Facing ourselves continues to be a delayed enterprise of arrested development.

Dr. Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge. He lectures at RMIT University, Melbourne. Email: [email protected]

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TFS
TFS
Feb 7, 2024 10:47 AM

This is an unscientific question, born out of just looking at photos of the Lunar Landers.

Here goes………

Q) If you strapped a Lunar Lander to the roof rack on your car and drove it around for the same length of time is was in flight on the back of a Saturn V rocket, what would happen?

In assuming this actually went to the moon, then a bravery trophy, depicting the luna lander should exist.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 3, 2019 1:17 PM

Dear Fight Nonsense (or ‘Nonsense Fight’ as I have privately rechristened you), in answer to your latest post: OK… you’ve just demonstrated your flagrant assertion fallacy about JW and frankly I’m kinda disappointed. It’s increasingly clear you’re a NASA fanboy fanatic, impervious to reason, attempting to dominate this thread using protracted assertion fallacies, dodgy links and ad hominem attacks. Here is a timestamped link to Webb’s apology for his false assertions that jarrah was traipsing through wikipedia archives. https://youtu.be/JGq19L761eY I care not if you say it was intended sarcastically (as all apologies given in bad grace are). They say one should ’never apologise’ and this is probably an example of this being true, in that case, as if it was intended to be sarcasm that certainly doesn’t come across. Webb apologised. Period. Now, please post a timestamped youtube link to anywhere else that Jarrah White falsely asserts anything about meteorites… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 7, 2019 7:13 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“OK… you’ve just demonstrated your flagrant assertion fallacy about JW and frankly I’m kinda disappointed. It’s increasingly clear you’re a NASA fanboy fanatic, impervious to reason, attempting to dominate this thread using protracted assertion fallacies, dodgy links and ad hominem attacks.” No, that’s YOU guys, with your fraudulent non-scientific “sources” and resort to meme-mongering and Red Herrings. “I care not if you say it was intended sarcastically (as all apologies given in bad grace are). They say one should ’never apologise’ and this is probably an example of this being true, in that case, as if it was intended to be sarcasm that certainly doesn’t come across. Webb apologised. Period.” It came across in spades. I’m sorry that you can’t discern sarcasm. That’s your problem, though, not mine. Or perhaps you’re just playing dumb? “May I ask, are you in fact Phil Webb?” May I ask, are you in fact… Read more »

pete m
pete m
Feb 11, 2020 3:32 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

re not enough thrust in a vacuum for the LM to leave a crater ,as repeatedly asserted by Apollo propagandists as JW refers to the likes of proven liars like Phil Webb and co, NASA themselves state in the report ‘ Analysis of Surveyor 3 material and photographs returned by Apollo 12 ‘ that- ‘The exterior camera surfaces showed discoloration patterns produced by lunar surface particles that were eroded and entrained on Surveyor by the *LM exhaust during landing*. **The particles were ejected almost horizontally at 40 m sec-** , struck the camera, and partially whitened its already dusty and radiation darkened surface.” The Apollo 12 LM landed 155 m away from the Surveyor 3 landing site, according to the report, which is also interesting in the fact that during its 31 month stay on the lunar surface being exposed to micrometeoroids ,NOT ONE m/meteoroid impact was found on the… Read more »

mark
mark
Jul 29, 2019 3:38 AM

It’s obvious that the moon landing was a hoax. Because otherwise this would be a great achievement by white people. And white people are evil. Everyone knows that. So obviously it never happened. The decision to go to the moon was taken in 1961, and achieved in just 8 years. If Von Braun and Arthur Rudolph had been given their head, it could have gone ahead in 1965, or earlier. But for the ’57 hysteria over Sputnik, it would never have happened at all. The serviceable Minerva nuclear rocket became available in the 1960s, making possible short duration missions to Mars. There could and should have been a landing on Mars by the late 70s, 1980 at the latest. With permanent settlements in space, mining of the asteroids, solar power stations in space, and much else besides now established facts. But it never happened. Instead, we had a few characters… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 28, 2019 1:05 PM

Fight Nonsense, continuing our conversation from below, regarding Jarrah White, Phil Webb and their research about the Apollo moon missions… [Jarrah’s] rebuttals, like everything else he says, are fraudulent. Great! A sweeping, deeply entrenched defamatory statement to really get the ball rolling in an open-minded debate! You’re not very good at being objective, and therefore not very qualified to school anyone in fraud detection! But perhaps you’d like to address particular claims he makes, to see whether they stand up to scientific scrutiny? Nor do I know if you’re particularly qualified to dismantle Jarrah’s science for me. Your attitude so far has been anything but scientific. But sure, let’s continue to debate. What arguments of White’s do you find particularly compelling? Jarrah’s exhaustive rebuttal of Webb’s moon rock debunk I find very compelling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC54038F20A01C8E3&v=Ucc_AXP7F8g I find it thorough (exhaustive even), consistent, and transparent. Perhaps you could post Webb’s rebuttal to… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 8:21 PM
Reply to  gardenfiend

A worthless response as always, my friend. But why I say that? Because you don’t make any specific claims about which arguments of Jarrah’s you find “compelling”. You’re not willing to stick your neck out to defend any of those arguments. You just say “I found this video to be well argued.” So yes, not worth bothering with you if you’re just going to troll.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 29, 2019 9:19 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I’ll be happy to discuss which of Jarrah’s claims you find most compelling. That’s how discussions work. You don’t get to hide behind “Where’s WEBB’S response?”

I take it Webb hasn’t made a response then. You originally rebutted me by posting Webb’s video, so I’m just following your lead! You could just admit that Webb hasn’t published a rebuttal. I believe THAT is how discussions work.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 30, 2019 12:27 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

I posted Webb’s response videos because you plastered Jarrah’s videos on this comment forum and made a bunch of sweeping claims about their scientific quality which you subsequently failed to back up. You didn’t bother trying to defend specific claims or point out the ones you find compelling, because you know that to do so will invite a response that you won’t be able to counter using actual science. If you want do engage in something beyond concern-trolling/a stupid game of “My guy responded to yours but yours didn’t respond to mine! The moon landings are therefore fake! Hur hur hur!” , you could point to some of Jarrah’s specific claims that YOU find particularly compelling. Otherwise, it’s impossible to know what you’re actually crediting because a video by itself isn’t an argument; it’s a bunch of arguments. or are you saying that you find ALL of Jarrah’s claims compelling… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 30, 2019 6:55 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I posted Webb’s response videos… …and I, in turn, posted Jarrah’s response to Webb’s response! If it’s ok for you, then it’s ok for me. I actually watched your video. Did you do me the courtesy of watching mine? …because you plastered Jarrah’s videos on this comment forum and made a bunch of sweeping claims about their scientific quality… If you mean I linked to his website FAQ and recommended it, then yes I did that. a video by itself isn’t an argument; it’s a bunch of arguments. mmmm yes. Like a book isn’t one argument, its a bunch of arguments. Or a prosecutor’s case isn’t one argument, it’s a bunch of arguments. That’s how one builds a case. So yeah, be specific rather than vague and evasive. I have been quite explicit, I find Jarrah’s case compelling. There isn’t a standalone piece of evidence which ‘clinches it’ for me,… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 30, 2019 9:32 PM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“Or a prosecutor’s case isn’t one argument, it’s a bunch of arguments. That’s how one builds a case.”

More evasions. You haven’t actually spelled out a case; you’ve simply said “here, read this.”

“I particularly appreciate his stuff about van Allen belt radiation.” Ok, let’s do that, then. Why do you particularly appreciate it?

“and for which Webb later issued an apology, due to his blatant misrepresentations of Jarrah’s position?
https://youtu.be/JGq19L761eY

FFS, LOL!!!!!! He was being SARCASTIC. He was apologizing for thinking that Jarrah could actually use logic.

Does it bother you that actual scientists don’t think anything at all of Jarrah’s “compelling body of evidence”? Sure, there are ways of SOUNDING persuasive (especially to audiences who aren’t too particular about facts and just want to have their dogmatic convictions “confirmed”). Nothing that I’ve seen from Jarrah is scientifically compelling. He makes the following sophomoric mistakes:

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 30, 2019 10:13 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I honestly think frustration has defeated your reason. You’re incapable of discussing anything without trying to draw me into some close-quarters slinging match! Your only example so far of Jarrah White’s awful science has got nothing to do with science. It’s about whether von Braun gathered asteroids in Antartica (which he did). You referred me a video, buddy! Don’t start moaning because I do likewise. And as sarcastic as Webb was being he still issued a video called “MoonFaker: Exhibit D: Critique #04C: Apologies & Corrections” in which he apologised for misrepresenting Jarrah’s position. I am actually watching these videos now and I haven’t seen a single strong argument made by Webb. Frankly I have no idea who the hell you are, but scientific you most certainly are not. Stop appealing to consensus to fight your battles for you. If you want to do that then go to a pro-Apollo… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 1, 2019 6:05 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“Your only example so far of Jarrah White’s awful science has got nothing to do with science. It’s about whether von Braun gathered asteroids in Antartica (which he did).” Which he didn’t, actually, and no actual geologist claims that he did. And nor is there any record of him doing so. No scientific data about the meteorites. Nada. Nothing. Zilch. And even you have to admit: it would be a bit stupid to send a rocket scientist to direct the collection of meteorites, now wouldn’t it? They couldn’t send a trained geologist? As is typical of moon landing denying claims, it’s a meme, repeated with unerring certitude until it becomes “truth” (Hitler’s prescription). “And as sarcastic as Webb was being he still issued a video called “MoonFaker: Exhibit D: Critique #04C: Apologies & Corrections” in which he apologised for misrepresenting Jarrah’s position.” He did, but only because he had initially… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 2, 2019 1:35 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

You’re really trying to make this von Braun meteorite thing work for you, and I applaud your efforts, because there clearly isn’t anything else tangible you can point to in Webb’s snide and inaccurate video. And apparently you think I’ve given you a huge gift here, because you’ve gone on and on about it! Similar to how Webb did, in fact… However, here’s my clarification, taken from the Moon landing conspiracy theories wiki page: During the local summer of 1966–67, von Braun participated in a field trip to Antarctica, organized for him and several other members of top NASA management.[91] The goal of the field trip was to determine whether the experience gained by U.S. scientific and technological community during the exploration of Antarctic wastelands would be useful for the crewed exploration of space. Von Braun was mainly interested in management of the scientific effort on Antarctic research stations, logistics,… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 2, 2019 1:38 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

Here’s a link to the Moon Landings Conspiracy Theories Wiki page (it’s a hoax debunk page):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 2, 2019 9:50 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“But honestly, this whole Antarctica thing is flogging a rather inconclusive dead horse. It’s not science, it’s hearsay which YOU introduced. I AM giving you a free gift here by indulging this straw man argument and allowing you to deflect and evade.” Actually, I raised it as one clear example of Jarrah’s many false assertions and as an example of the propensity of moon landing deniers to perpetuate memes which rely on hearsay. But thank you for affirming that Jarrah’s is indeed a false assertion and that no evidence whatsoever exists for von Braun’s meteorites and the weight placed on them by legions of moon landing deniers. “What about all this hard science of which you speak, is it going to materialise?” Well, we can go by the hard science used by the entire world scientific community when it comes to the moon, and this has been produced countless times,… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 2, 2019 9:43 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

We both know, since you watched the video you said you watched, that Jarrah didn’t falsely assert anything. He said ‘It’s worth noting ‘ that von Braun was in the area at the time, and speculated as to why.

You are lying when you said Jarrah falsely asserted anything. Aren’t you?

I’ll reply to the rest if your post above.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 3, 2019 10:29 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

Ah, wrong again. Jarrah made repeated references to “meteorites” and that this is what von Braun was there to collect when he attempted to insinuate that this “information” had been covered-up by Wikipedia.

“You are lying when you said Jarrah falsely asserted anything. Aren’t you?”

No. The only proven liars are you guys. Please face up to the fact that the engineers just don’t take you seriously. Like, at all. But you already know that. Don’t you?

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 3, 2019 11:14 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

JW answered the charge of insinuation from Webb in his rebuttal (which you watched) and Webb issued an apology!!

You know this, you watched the video, yet you carry on with this Proof by Assertion fallacy regardless!

It’s called lying.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 3, 2019 11:57 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

Jarrah is the one who decided to jump on the “von Braun’s meteorites” bandwagon in the first place in order to milk it. Having been forced to retreat with his tail between his legs, he now has to claim that it’s merely an “interesting circumstantial evidence” (according to you) – yet it really isn’t even that. A better site for collecting such objects would have been Oman. There’s a world of difference between proposing a site as a test-bed for a mission and collecting material from the moon. If I decided that Arizona was a great place for training astronauts, how wold that imply that I have moon rock collections in Arizona on my mind? Moon rocks aren’t attracted to places on Earth by virtue of those places looking like them. They just fall where they fall. “Webb issued an apology!!” Yes, for supposing that Jarrah was being deliberate in… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 3, 2019 1:57 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I think you’ve got as much traction from this aside by Jarrah as you can, don’t you? You’ve admitted Jarrah didn’t insinuate anything and that Webb was wrong.

Back up some of these other claims with timestamped youtube links, or quit poisoning the well, yeah?

I replied to your longer post above ^^^

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 7, 2019 3:50 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“You’ve admitted Jarrah didn’t insinuate anything”

Then why wold he bring up the issue of von Braun’s “meteorites” in the first place? It certainly wasn’t to debunk them.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 3, 2019 1:01 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

******Hi Fight Nonsense, I have answered this post in a new thread, above, as this is getting very skinny!****** ^^^^^^^^^

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 8:28 PM
Reply to  gardenfiend

I’ll be happy to discuss which of Jarrah’s claims you find most compelling. That’s how discussions work. You don’t get to hide behind “Where’s WEBB’S response?”

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 28, 2019 11:58 AM

Paperclip Nazi NASA : The “first moon landing” and Adolf Hitler
https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/nazi_adolf_hitler_chancellor.html

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 28, 2019 1:05 PM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

How appropriate than someone Gobell is posting so much disinformation and lies.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 28, 2019 5:20 PM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Keep up the anti-lunar psychops campaign going, well done. Do they pay you and MLS per post?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 8:26 PM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Hitler had no interest in the moon. And the Soviets had their own version of Paperclip to recruit German rocket scientists and engineers into their missile program. If the moonshot was all “fake”, why bother recruiting engineers at all? The Americans and Soviets already had working space launch vehicles by the time of Apollo. If you keyboard warrior “engineers” – who have contributing absolutely nothing to the sum total of human endeavor and knowledge – find it “obvious” that the US didn’t go to the moon, why would the Soviets and Americans have bothered to build more elaborate moonshot vehicles if they could have just used one of their existing ones?

Punnoval
Punnoval
Jul 28, 2019 2:43 AM

All you deniers and debunkers are full of crap. The real “moon shot” was discovered here:

Watch it and weep

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 10:31 PM

The very low quality of the TV footage is due to the process by which it was obtained: “Because NASA’s equipment was not compatible with TV technology of the day, the original transmissions had to be displayed on a monitor and re-shot by a TV camera for broadcast” (as explained in this August 15, 2006 report by Reuters). To be precise, NASA claimed that the original transmission from the moon was in color video and that it was reshot from a monitor in 16 mm black-and-white (color from Apollo 14 on), using a kinescope, which is a lens focused on the monitor. What we need for a proper investigation are the original NASA video recordings. Researchers have been asking for access to these films for decades, under the Freedom of Information Act. In 2006, they were given an answer. NASA spokesman Grey Hautaluoma said: “We haven’t seen them for quite… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:00 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

“Also allegedly lost are all the telemetry data” Fake news. Only a tiny proportion of all the telemetry data was lost. Please stop repeating worn-out memes as thought they’re somehow facts that NASA has “admitted” to. “Also lost are the blueprints for the lunar modules, the lunar rovers, and the entire multi-sectioned Saturn V rockets.” Oh? “How is it possible that the Saturn V blueprints have been lost? IN A NUTSHELL: They haven’t. They’re preserved on microfilm at the Marshall Space Flight Center and on paper at Rocketdyne and in US federal archives. The F-1 engines of the giant rocket are being studied in detail and used as engineering templates for the next generation of spacecraft. Three whole Saturn V rockets are on public display, available to anyone who cares to examine them.” https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/96-how-is-it-possible-that-saturn-v.html Blueprints to purchase, scanned from original NASA artwork: http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/saturnvprints.htm https://www.masterreplicasgroup.com/products/saturn-v-poster Saturn V flight manual on NASA’s… Read more »

MLS
MLS
Jul 28, 2019 9:53 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

How much of the telemetry data remains?

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 28, 2019 12:48 PM
Reply to  MLS

Irrelevant

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 8:55 PM
Reply to  MLS

From all the missions? Most of it. But even though some of the Apollo 11 telemetry was lost, that’s still a Red Herring to whether Apollo missions after Apollo 11 could get to the moon because missions to the moon had ALREADY been flown BEFORE Apollo 11 (Apollos 8 & 10), so they clearly already knew how to get there, including from the unnamed probes that had been sent by the US. So in other words, you’re arguing “The lost telemetry proves it was fake. They were trying to cover up that they never went there. And the telemetry they retained? Oh, well…that must ALSO be fake! It’s not beyond their capabilities to fake telemetry data.” So they retained something that was fake because they were capable of fabricating it, but the losing of some of it proves it was fake, even though it’s all fake anyway? Wait…WHAT?

Mishko_
Mishko_
Jul 29, 2019 11:13 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Best case scenario: a dubious claim to fame because of all
the cold war shenanigans.
The US gov. and its institutions can NOT be trusted.
NASA is unable to repeat what it claims to have achieved.
Their glory days seem to be a thing of the past.
It is not your fault, it is okay to shed a small tear.
A little sob or even a bit of crying in your pillow if you must.
I too have my cherished illusions which are also pressure points.

Fight nonsensne
Fight nonsensne
Jul 30, 2019 9:39 PM
Reply to  Mishko_

“The US gov. and its institutions can NOT be trusted.”

AGAIN with the stupid straw-man of “trust” as though we can’t fact-check and use science. But I guess you think that the Soviets just “trusted” their Cold War rival, and that that’s the reason they fully affirmed the authenticity of Apollo.

I like how easily you give up, Mishko. You start off with very specific claims, and then when you can’t defend them, you fall back on the stupid tropes and cliches of your intellectual brethren.

“A little sob or even a bit of crying in your pillow if you must.” Says the guy who pathetically loses every discussion he enters.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 3, 2019 11:17 AM

Being impervious to reason is not the same to winning an argument, Nonsense Fight…. I mean Fight Nonsense.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 7, 2019 7:17 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

That’s supposed to be an “argument”? Wow. You seem rankled that I provided technical documents, while your friends here provided only wild speculations and fallacies.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 7:26 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Why would original footage going missing point to a fake moon landing when the copies have been retained? Who tries to cover up something by losing it but retains and distributes the copies of the thing to be covered-up? “Also allegedly lost are all the telemetry data, received and recorded to monitor the location and mechanical functioning of the spaceship, as well as the astronauts’ heartbeat. Also lost are the blueprints for the lunar modules, the lunar rovers, and the entire multi-sectioned Saturn V rockets.” None of this is accurate. Only a small portion of the total telemetry data has been lost; the blueprints are stored at Rocketdyne, the Marshall Space Flight Center and US federal archives (you can even purchase prints of them from companies that scanned original NASA artwork); and there is reams and reams of data and information (including manuals and technical specifications, many of them with… Read more »

MLS
MLS
Jul 28, 2019 9:56 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

There are no copies of the original footage as you surely know. The ‘copies’ are tapes of the TV transmission, which was recorded from a TV screen. They contain no information that would have been present in the original footage and tapes.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 28, 2019 12:47 PM
Reply to  MLS

Blah blah blah. More opinionated conspirtaorial claptrap.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 8:48 PM
Reply to  MLS

“No information”? They contain enough information for people like you to point to them as “evidence” that the moon landings were “obviously fake”. Are you saying saying that all the other moon landing’s footage has been lost? If not, why get hung up on some of it not being original? Whether or not footage is from the original copy, you would claim it to be fake in any case, just as you do with the footage from Apollos 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17. In other words, you’ve admitted (without realizing it, of course) that the footage being original is absolutely IRRELEVANT to you. It’s just another Red Herring you can cling to to “prove” that the landings were fake.

Refraktor
Refraktor
Jul 29, 2019 3:51 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight Nonsense. NASA use a mystical laser to determine lunar distance. This laser disobeys the inverse square law which usually dictates how electromagnetic radiation propagates in space. NASA’s laser illuminates a circle of approximately 20 miles diameter. This translates to 804 million square metres. The moon has an albedo or reflectivity of 30%. Let’s say NASA’s retro reflector on the moon has perfect reflectivity of 100%. Allowing for the relatively weak reflectivity of the lunar surface we still see that this return overwhelms the retro reflector signal by a factor of 241 million. I have never understood this and I’m glad you’re on hand to explain it. Thanks in advance.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 8:42 PM
Reply to  Refraktor

Again, you ignore that albedo has nothing to do with the quality of the light reflected by a laser. A laser pointed at the moon will reflect light of a different type than light reflected off its surface from the sun. There’s nothing to “explain” other than your ignorance and the mystical “physics” you’re relying on. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the fact that not a single scientist agrees with you and that highly accurate measurements of the moon’s distance continue to be made by international scientists thanks to the reflectors.

Mishko_
Mishko_
Jul 29, 2019 10:56 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

https://www.rt.com/news/452091-moon-inside-earth-atmosphere/
The wonderful go-getter goal oriented mad NASA scientists have stopped
over-achieving. Now suddenly they bring up the Van Allen Belt,
but fail to buckle up and kick radiation ass. (or suck it up)
They are living and breathing examples of devolution.
NASA and its claims and machinations are an integral part of a long con.
The biggest and longest con: The Beast System.
Fvck NASA and the hobby horse they keep racing.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 30, 2019 12:29 AM
Reply to  Mishko_

Unfortunately, no scientist or engineer agrees with you, buddy. But keep up the good “work”.

Refraktor
Refraktor
Jul 29, 2019 4:27 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

The moon is very bright. Bright enough that we can see our way on Earth by its light. If I observe it it through a 10 inch Schmidt Newtonian it is bright enough to strain the eye. Imagine how it would appear through the 3 m reflector of the Apache point laser ranging station in New Mexico. It would probably be blinding. Yet NASA claim to identify single photons -perhaps two or three in the course of a minute – against this background of untold quadrillions of photons.
It is of course too ridiculous to contemplate.
It is a physical impossibility.
The laser ranging experiment cannot and does not exist.
It seems most suspicious.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 8:38 PM
Reply to  Refraktor

I’m so sorry that you haven’t heard of experimental controls. “It is a physical impossibility.” According to absolutely no scientist. “Yet NASA claim to identify single photons -perhaps two or three in the course of a minute – against this background of untold quadrillions of photons.” Straw-man argument and naked assertion fallacies. Why do you weirdly pretend that all photons are the same, as though scientists have no way of distinguishing photos with different wavelengths? I don’t know what textbook you’re getting your physics from, but it must be one with entire chapters missing. “The laser ranging experiment cannot and does not exist. It seems most suspicious.” Only if one relies on sophomoric assumptions. Unfortunately for you, the Soviets and Americans were both able to distinguish between laser light reflected off of the SURFACE of the moon from the moon’s natural reflected light – in the early 1960s, well before… Read more »

pete m
pete m
Feb 11, 2020 4:01 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

“Unfortunately for you, the Soviets and Americans were both able to distinguish between laser light reflected off of the SURFACE of the moon from the moon’s natural reflected light – in the early 1960s, well before any reflectors had been placed on the surface.”

That’s a relief. At least you’re not gonna spout the nonsense that the ability to bounce lasers off the moon proves that man has walked on the moon as favoured by a large number of NASbArats .

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 27, 2019 2:44 PM

Dear Lunar Landing Doubters, You woke up today, and at some point you went online and posted yourcomment; it happened, it is real, it’s not a figment of our imagination,nor a conspiracy that you actually did this. Similarly, 400,000 people woke up each morning for 10+ years, they went to work, delivered the moon landings; it happened, it is real, it’s not a figment of their or our imagination, nor a conspiracy that they did this. Moreover, the Russians and Chinese monotored every step, every launch and all the transmissions from the missions; it happened, it is real what they did, it’s not a figment of their or our imagination, nor a conspiracy that they did this. Elsewhere, For 911 i agree that the official story is unreal, and the reason that I think this is that REAL firefighters and other witnesses who were ON SITE that day saw something… Read more »

Maggie
Maggie
Jul 27, 2019 5:20 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Dear Frank,
Everything you say about 911 is spot on. The Gvmt lied through their teeth, just as they have been doing since the beginning of time..
The ‘Moon Landing’ never happened…

How in god’s name did they get through the van allen belts, in an aluminium box wearing aluminium suits???
The van allen belts are NOT coloured like the rainbow, they are invisible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeKRk8ivaQQ

‘Allegedly’ 6 flawless missions to the moon, no casualties, no cancer, no technical difficulties with less technology than the most primitive phone today… And yet, we can’t duplicate it today. Yeah. Sure.
According to NASA we had the technology but destroyed it and its too hard to get back Gene Kranz said we lost all the telemetry tapes and even if we had them we don’t have a machine to play them on!!
it was all just ONE GIANT LIE FOR MANKIND!!!!

xxx

Maggie
Maggie
Jul 27, 2019 6:16 PM
Reply to  Maggie

And here’s more:
Kubrick made the film….
https://worldtruth.tv/stanley-kubrick-admits-he-helped-nasa-fake-moon-landings-in-new-film/

Of course his daughter denied it??? Well she didn’t want to mess with the evil Gvmt….

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 10:40 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Re : Kubrick

Appendix: the Kubrick hypothesis
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/07/15/landings/

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 10:43 PM
Reply to  Maggie

The Fake Apollo 11 Moon Landing : JFK, Wernher von Braun, JFK Jr., Kubrick’s Eyes Wide Shut and Anne Frank
https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/moon_landing_20_july_1969.html

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 28, 2019 5:09 AM
Reply to  Maggie

When I used to drive past Stanley Kubrick’s house on the way to and from work, I often wondered why he kept the moon in his back garden. I mean, it is rather large so it did stick out a bit, even more than the big yellow thing he had had constructed on the MGM lot while he was filming 2001. It wasn’t until I was having lunch in a Borehamood pub some time later that I overheard a pissed production accountant telling a continuity girl that NASA had vetoed building the sets for some secret film he was doing for them because of the expense and had transported the real thing all the way down to Herts instead. Stanley was reportedly so chuffed because it made everything look so much more real documentary-ish that he forgot to bill them for the subsequent rehabilitation of his petunias. Not many people… Read more »

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Jul 29, 2019 8:48 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Now that really made me laugh … 🙂 especially the petunias 😉

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 11, 2019 11:36 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Maggie again, with her fake news “contributions” from pathetic fake news websites.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 10:50 PM
Reply to  Maggie

“Allegedly 6 flawless missions to the moon …”

Not quite.

The Apollo 13 theatrics were designed to engage the audience.

There had to be some sort of problem, otherwise the project would be seen as being too perfect.

So, like the UA93 “Let’s Roll” nonsense vis Todd Beamer et al, the TV believers had to be fed some heroics so that they could buy into a dramatic hook …

Same old same old methods, by the same old same old cabal …

Akin to the conjurer picking your pocket while you are mesmerised with the other hand …

MG

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:23 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

“The Apollo 13 theatrics were designed to engage the audience.”

Ah, the pathetic excuse of someone who doesn’t want to own up to the fact that Apollo 13 near-disaster actually put a massive dent in public enthusiasm for the program and resulted in moon missions beyond Apollo 17 being cancelled.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:20 AM
Reply to  Maggie

Aahhh, so you’re saying that in “reality”, they must have “lost the technology” to FAKE going to the moon, and that’s why no one’s FAKED it since 1972. Please learn about the actual reasons that the manned lunar program was cancelled. They’re actually very banal: waning public interest (especially after the Apollo 13 near-disaster), the enormous costs involved, the fact that they had already beaten the Soviets, and the lack of political expediency in continuing such a program given the budgetary environment. “And yet, we can’t duplicate it today. Yeah. Sure.” Who told you “we can’t”? Please learn the difference between “they don’t currently have a launch vehicle for taking people to the moon”, and”‘they’re not technologically capable of developing such a launch vehicle.” These are vastly different propositions. Using your logic, one would have to say that the Space Shuttle was also “fake” because it was decommissioned years ago… Read more »

MLS
MLS
Jul 28, 2019 10:26 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

The only astronauts who died in the Apollo program died on the ground, because someone had decided to pump something like 99% pure oxygen into the capsule instead of the usual gas mix.

All the other minor issues on mission resulted in zero deaths, which adds to the implausibility, if we are being entirely rational and unemotional.

Compare that to the history of ocean exploration, the early history of powered flight, breaking land-speed records etc.

People die during dangerous experimentation. The only exception to this rule is the Moon missions.

It’s just another drip of implausibility. No, it’s not proof the Apollo missions were less than genuine. I am still open to the possibility they were. But, sadly, there is so much pointing to the possibility they were not.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 28, 2019 12:55 PM
Reply to  MLS

We don’t really know how many died, not everything would have been publicly available. This all occured during the heights of the Cold War and there was a military imperative to become dominant over the Soviets in this area at least. Any admission of failure would have been great propaganda for the Soviets and indeed the latter were watching every mission and receiving every transmission from them. The Soviets surely also lost many people.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 9:59 PM
Reply to  MLS

“The only astronauts who died in the Apollo program died on the ground, because someone had decided to pump something like 99% pure oxygen into the capsule instead of the usual gas mix.” You’re sure about that, champ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mercury#Pilot_accommodations: “A cabin atmosphere of pure oxygen at a low pressure of 5.5 psi (equivalent to an altitude of 24,800 feet (7,600 m)) was chosen, rather than one with the same composition as air (nitrogen/oxygen) at sea level.[78] This was easier to control,[79] avoided the risk of decompression sickness (“the bends”),[80][n 7] and also saved on spacecraft weight.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Pure_oxygen_atmosphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Choice_of_pure_oxygen_atmosphere: “Other oxygen incidents Several fires in high-oxygen test environments had occurred before the Apollo fire. In 1962, USAF Colonel B. Dean Smith was conducting a test of the Gemini space suit with a colleague in a pure oxygen chamber at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas when a fire broke… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 30, 2019 12:36 AM
Reply to  MLS

“The only astronauts who died in the Apollo program died on the ground, because someone had decided to pump something like 99% pure oxygen into the capsule instead of the usual gas mix.” You’re sure about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mercury#Pilot_accommodations: “A cabin atmosphere of pure oxygen at a low pressure of 5.5 psi (equivalent to an altitude of 24,800 feet (7,600 m)) was chosen, rather than one with the same composition as air (nitrogen/oxygen) at sea level.[78] This was easier to control,[79] avoided the risk of decompression sickness (“the bends”),[80][n 7] and also saved on spacecraft weight.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Pure_oxygen_atmosphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Choice_of_pure_oxygen_atmosphere: “Other oxygen incidents Several fires in high-oxygen test environments had occurred before the Apollo fire. In 1962, USAF Colonel B. Dean Smith was conducting a test of the Gemini space suit with a colleague in a pure oxygen chamber at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas when a fire broke out,… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 11, 2019 11:35 PM
Reply to  Maggie

“How in god’s name did they get through the van allen belts, in an aluminium box wearing aluminium suits???” Ah, just aluminium, was it? Sounds like a case of argumentum ad populum by an ignorant moon landing denier who is too lazy to stop blathering for a minute instead of doing some actual research for a change. “‘Allegedly’ 6 flawless missions to the moon, no casualties, no cancer, no technical difficulties” What’s that, sport? “No technical dificulties”? Not according to the historical record. Here, educate yourself: “How is it possible that everything went so smoothly? IN A NUTSHELL: It didn’t. NASA went out of its way to give this impression, but the truth was quite different. Three astronauts died on the launch pad (Apollo 1). Apollo 13 suffered an explosion that scrubbed its lunar landing and almost killed the crew. Apollo 12 was struck by lightning at liftoff. Apollo 11… Read more »

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 9:47 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

If you would pick sincere hostility over condescension, your arguments
would perhaps evoke more interest because of sympathy.
Using both I am more inclined to have the kneejerk response of
So? / So what / SFW / And? / So now what. But that is just me.

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 9:32 PM
Reply to  Maggie

In those days the men allegedly were built of sterner stuff and had true grit.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 10:27 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Dear Frank

Your strawman :

“Only the weak minded and easily deluded think that the hundreds of thousands of engineers and technicians were lying …”

Maybe you could provide some evidence that folk have suggested this ?

Nobody I know of has.

Why do we need hundreds of thousands of engineers and technicians to lie in order to make the moon landings a hoax ?

Why do you imply that engineers and technicians would know the whole truth of the project ?

It is a very flimsy position to assert and has no bearing on the possibility that the entire world was misled.

MG

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:07 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

“Maybe you could provide some evidence that folk have suggested this ?” Aahhh, so they were TRICKED is what you’re saying – and not only for a year, but for over a decade and all the way up to the present day. Every single one of them – tricked. But YOU could “crack” the “conspiracy”?

“Why do you imply that engineers and technicians would know the whole truth of the project ?”

Why do you imply it would even be possible to trick EVERY SINGLE engineer and expert working on the project about the “true” goal of the program, all the way through the development process, all throughout the flights, all throughout the debriefings, all throughout the scientific analyses of the results of the missions?

Become acquainted with basic engineering and logistical principles, please. Then you wouldn’t have to wallow in a cartoon universe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXb4Wu5_kv4

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 9:49 PM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Compartmentalisation. Manhattan Project is also an example of this.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 11:33 AM

What Happened on the Moon?

AULIS Documentary Film

https://www.aulis.com/moon_pt1.htm

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 7:32 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Would you be able to specify what argument in the documentary you find particularly compelling? I welcome the chance to be proven wrong about everything I’ve been saying.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 10:53 AM

Paperclip Nazi and NASA rocket man, Wernher von Braun, chief architect of the Apollo Saturn V, was born on March 23, 1912

666 months, 666 weeks later …

they faked the Apollo 11 moon landing on July 20, 1969

https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/moon_landing_20_july_1969.html

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 11:17 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Correction :

666 months, 666 days later …

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 11:36 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

That’s pretty desperate and pathetic. You just looked for a way to find the number 666. Since the number of months between 1912 and 1969 isn’t 666, you kept going until you found something. If it has been exactly 666 months, you would be pointing to that as proof of something sinister. Sure, you can find whatever number you want in anything so long as you’r not particular about the units you’re using or what their significance is when you bang them together like a toddler. Thanks for the meaningless fact you posted. Care to explain why anyone should be impressed by this exercise in tabloid numerology?

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 12:16 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight nonsense

If you cannot distinguish between simple date arithmetic and whatever it is you mean by the term, “numerology”, then you may have issues comprehending further explanation.

Here they are anyway.
https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/introduction.html

May I suggest that you think about losing the childish invective also.

MG

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:27 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

If this is the sort of pathetic “evidence you’re forced to rely on, then you’ve admitted that you have nothing but a hurt ego.

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 9:56 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Timing matters, and so does location/setting, and symbolism/signals.
I concur with Mr. T in pitying the fool that does not.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 11:35 PM

Two weeks after receiving Johnson’s memo, Kennedy made his famous speech to Congress ( May 25, 1961 ) :

“I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to Earth.”

911 days later, JFK was murdered …
https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/moon_landing_20_july_1969.html

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 2:25 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

You’re saying that the conspirators advertise their conspiracies by weaving them into fake coincidences?

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 11:42 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:28 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

That’s conjecture and stupidity, not evidence.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 11:28 PM

Analysing The Astronauts – Full Episode

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 3:52 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Videos like this are a truly modern phenomenon: they lament that the astronauts weren’t behaving like modern sports stars by grabbing their crotches, thumping their chests and pointing up to heaven. They also ignore all the footage where the astronauts are actually jovial, smiling and making jokes. This is known as “cheery picking”.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 11:18 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

About Peter Hyatt https://www.hyattanalysis.com/about-hyatt-analysis/ Peter Hyatt is a Statement Analyst and instructor who teaches statement analysis and analytical interviewing to law enforcement and corporate America. He has authored the investigator training manual for DHHS, State of Maine, as well as the book Wise As a Serpent; Gentle as a Dove. He has been interviewed extensively on radio and television, including ABC’s “20/20”, the nationally televised program, “Crime Watch Daily” and “Taken Too Soon: The Katelyn Markham Story” documentary. With Richard Hall, he gave extensive information into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. “Embedded Confession” is found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slziMpXYjJo&t=178s Mr. Hyatt leads an elite team of professional investigators from across the US, Canada & Western Europe in solving both live and cold cases. He’s written the certification training program for investigators, HR professionals, psychologists, attorneys and other professionals from around the nation, the UK and Canada. He authored two training manuals in… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:36 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

You didn’t address what I said. I didn’t ask you about Hyatt; I asked you why the video only shows the astronauts being somber, and ignores the parts where they’re being jovial. By pretending that the astronauts were only somber, it automatically sets a different context for whatever analysis of their speech and mannerisms follows. Moon landing deniers: “This one person with some credentials is backing me up on this. Therefore, the Apollo missions were faked.” Also moon landing deniers: “These millions of other credentialed people who say that the moon landings were real are just bought off by the Illuminati.” “Your expertise in statement and behavioural analysis is ?” The same as yours: zero. Which is why I’m asking why no video of the astronauts being jovial is analyzed. Hmmm? Besides, for you to talk about expertise of any kind is a bit rich, given your penchant for spamming… Read more »

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 10:01 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Are the astronauts all members of a freemasonic lodge?
Not illuminati, yet sworn brethren whose idea of fellowship
does NOT necessarily include the profane masses.
Again with the straw-manning. Bad kitty, no treat!

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 11:24 PM

Apollo moon rocks lost in space? No, lost on Earth
https://phys.org/news/2009-09-apollo-moon-lost-space-earth.html

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 11:23 PM
Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 2:27 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Except it wasn’t “given” by Armstrong and Aldrin, or by anyone at NASA. Here, educate yourself about this pernicious meme:

“How come the Moon rock donated to Holland is fake? IN A NUTSHELL: Because it’s not a NASA Moon rock. Everything points to a mistake or to a hoax orchestrated by two Dutch artists in 2006. NASA has never authenticated the “rock” (there are no documents tracing its origins), it’s far too big to be a donated lunar sample, and its background story is nonsensical. It was reportedly donated privately in 1969 to a retired prime minister instead of being given, as was customary, to a representative of the then-current Dutch government; it wasn’t put on public display as a Moon rock would have deserved; and real donated Moon rocks were encapsulated in transparent plastic, while this one is not.” https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/98-how-come-moon-rock-donated-to.html

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 5:48 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

It’s hard work, isn’t it, Fight nonsense? Very hard work. I admire your tenacity.

I’m with Mark on the numbers in many ways – the significance of the number of days between events is not really my thing but that doesn’t mean I don’t doubt their significance and I certainly know that Masonic numerology is very important to the power elite.

Regardless, numbers do not provide evidence in any shape or form we didn’t go to the moon. Numbers can only ever support other convincing evidence … of which I see none.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 11:21 PM
Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 11:09 PM

search : Gus Grissom lemon

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 3:58 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Grissom was dissatisfied with how aspects of the program were coming along. NASA used his criticisms to improve the program, as they did with the criticisms of the rest of the astronaut corps. As in all large-scale engineering exercises, the input of professionals is used to address shortcomings and failings. Note how after his death, the program was delayed and the safety procedures tightened and revamped.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 10:48 PM

The Moon Landings: A Giant Hoax for Mankind?
http://www.unz.com/article/the-moon-landing-a-giant-hoax-for-mankind/

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 26, 2019 10:28 PM

Well written piece. Makes a nice change for OffG in recent months.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 10:27 PM

The Moon Landings: A Giant Hoax for Mankind?
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/07/15/landings/

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 2:32 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

No actual aerospace engineer, astronomer, geologist, or space program historian takes this supposition at all seriously. Given the very poor quality of “arguments” you’ve used to try to “prove” that the moon landings were faked, one can easily see why. I would recommend doing some basic fact-checking using Google before posting memes such as that NASA “gave Holland fake moon rock”. A good resource to educate yourself and to dispel many pernicious and thoroughly debunked moon hoaxer memes is the site http://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com. There, you’ll find the scientific rebuttal to dozens of common hoaxer claims which are in circulation and presented as “facts” by hoaxers who have not done any homework.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 2:34 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

Could you please, by the way, provide us with some pointers about what arguments in this article you find particularly compelling? Without that context, it’s impossible to judge what you’re actually trying to convey. Have you actually fact-checked the arguments in the article? Which ones do you think are more compelling than others? Which ones do you consider not so compelling? Be precise.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 26, 2019 10:19 PM

The nuts are out in force again.

The Russians and Chinese were tracking all the missions, and their radio signals, and would have immediately seized upon the huge propaganda victory during the Cold War if they had got the slightest inkling that the American mission were not not successful, let alone not happening.

Add to that 400,000 people working on the programme as well as the millions who witnessed it with their own eyes.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 10:35 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

The Manhattan Project
130,000 quiet folk …

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 7:48 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

That’s right – 130,000 quiet folk working in a classified project where everyone was ordered to keep their mouths shut AND where the goal wasn’t announced to the world. The US didn’t announce to the world: “We’re building nukes, guys.” Apollo, on the other hand, was a publicly announced program, with a publicly announced goal, with hundreds of thousands of people working together to fulfill that common goal. Are you saying that most of these people were being continuously duped on an ongoing basis? Are you saying that even after all the information sharing among different groups developing the various systems and components to make sure that the systems worked together as part of a common package, all the testing that was done, all the adjustments, refinements and advancements made after consultation with other systems managers, all the technical knowledge accumulated – that AFTER and DESPITE all this, the “people… Read more »

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 27, 2019 1:00 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

David S. Percy’s book, DARK MOON : Apollo and the Whistle-Blowers, presents the argument that their were indeed “whistle blowers” : Information is now available that throws into serious doubt the authenticity of the Apollo record, and new evidence clearly suggests that NASA hoaxed the photographs taken on the surface of the Moon. These disturbing findings are supported by detailed analysis of the Apollo images by professional photographer David S Percy ARPS and physicist Dr. David Groves PhD. The numerous inconsistencies clearly visible in the Apollo photographic record are quite irrefutable. Some of the many errors evidenced in DARK MOON were no doubt due to haste and poor thinking. Others were deliberately planted by individuals dubbed by the authors as ‘Whistle-Blowers’, who were determined to leave evidence of the faking in which they were unwillingly involved. New copies of, DARK MOON : Apollo and the Whistle-Blowers are available from amazon… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:43 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

I love how you didn’t even bother trying to make an argument, but simply resorted to a naked assertion fallacy and a book sales pitch.

Percy is a fraud, BTW. There are numerous videos debunking his corrupt nonsense. It’s pathetic that he has to INSINUATE that there were people trying to “leave clues” – but he can’t point to any ACTUAL PEOPLE straight up SAYING “I was part of a fraud”. And please don’t use the stupid “NASA would have murdered them” excuse. If they would have murdered their own employees for “exposing the truth”, why wouldn’t they just murder Percy, Kaising, Sibrel and other corrupt con men for doing the same?

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 10:53 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Frank Speaker : … as well as the millions who witnessed it with their own eyes.

Rather than watching a TV show with the eyes of others …

Coronation Street – 8 million viewers a week …
https://tellymix.co.uk/ratings/358612-coronation-street-watched-soap-not-even-close-ratings.html

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 30, 2019 9:45 PM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

You’re saying that the Saturn V launches were faked in a studio? Must have been a really BIG studio, many miles high.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Jul 26, 2019 10:58 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Frank Speaker :

“The Russians and Chinese were tracking all the missions, and their radio signals, and would have immediately seized upon the huge propaganda victory during the Cold War if they had got the slightest inkling that the American mission were not not successful, let alone not happening.”

The Moon Landings: A Giant Hoax for Mankind?
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/07/15/landings/

Russia calls investigation into whether US moon landings happened
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-calls-investigation-into-whether-us-moon-landings-happened-10327714.html

As a result of this NASA admission, Russian officials have started demanding an international investigation.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130017/Russian-official-demands-investigation-really-happened-moon-landing-original-footage-disappeared.html

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 2:37 AM
Reply to  Mark Gobell

You didn’t provide a rebuttal to the claim tat the Russians were tracking the missions.

“Russia calls investigation into whether US moon landings happened”

This “call” was made by a political prostitute, not a scientist or engineer.

“As a result of this NASA admission, Russian officials have started demanding an international investigation.”

You failed to provide actual data cited by these Russian officials showing compelling evidence that the missions were faked. Note also that these officials drag their own country through the mud by implying that the Soviet space program was TOO STUPID to have picked up on the “fakery”.

MLS
MLS
Jul 28, 2019 10:01 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

That’s not a valid point really. Of the 400,000 people working on the program only about 50 would have any direct hands-on knowledge about the mission itself. Most of those 400,000 were contractors making components and parts.

Some guy working for Boeing on a design for the nose cone or whatever would have no idea what was happening at Mission Control or Cape Canaveral.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 10:23 PM
Reply to  MLS

“Of the 400,000 people working on the program only about 50 would have any direct hands-on knowledge about the mission itself.” Naked assertion fallacy. “Most of those 400,000 were contractors making components and parts.” You’re saying that none of these people would have known that their components and parts wouldn’t actually work in space and on the moon? Besides which, this is a Red Herring. These components and parts all had to be made in consultation with other engineers and technicians so that they would abide by the packaging requirements of the space-craft as a whole. Are you saying that there wasn’t constant communication between systems engineers and technicians regarding the technical requirements of the components so that they would accommodate the mission’s objectives and that they didn’t take into account things like weight, size, materials, vibration levels, thermal exposure, and torsional and mechanical stress? You’re saying that they were… Read more »

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 10:13 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Prof. Anthony Sutton was an academic who exposed cold war chicanery and shenanigans
between the superpowers. So the propaganda on all sides is just that, the round table agendas keep steamrolling over ALL nations.
I am dutch, and never consented to having to live in the US of Europe.
But this being USA occupied territory, woe is me & my fellow country-men and -women.

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 1:17 PM

I’ve been looking in to the Apollo question for many years, and I am absolutely on the fence about what went down.

I don’t claim it was a hoax, but neither am I one of those who feels able to say the case is proved. The sad truth is the case is NOT proved, because every piece of evidence that would prove Apollo was genuine is either missing or never materialised.

So we are left with ambiguities and absence of certitude.

This clearly upsets many people, as witness the fury and rage expressed by a couple of posters here. They so want the proof to exist they simply keep asserting it does, as if repetition is enough.

There is no solid proof we ever went to the Moon. Nor is there solid proof we didn’t.

That has to be the starting point of any honest and serious debate.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 26, 2019 10:04 PM
Reply to  MLS

The Russians and Chinese were tracking all the missions and their radio signals and they would have immediately seized upon a huge propaganda victory during the Cold War had they got the slightest inkling that they were not successful, let alone never occurred.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 27, 2019 2:34 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Dear Downvoters, prove otherwise.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 2:43 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

They can’t, of course. They can only managed some passive-aggressive down-voting.

pete m
pete m
Feb 11, 2020 4:35 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

The fact that the US believed (until the soviets admitted otherwise) that the Soviets Zond 5 was a manned mission to orbit the moon due to interception of the transmissions of recorded speech from Zond 5 kinda puts a damper on any claims that tracking Apollo transmissions proves anything IMHO.

its also interesting that the Soviet manned moon missions only came to light after the collapse of the USSR .

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 28, 2019 3:59 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

This is a causal fallacy, a false dichotomy, an oversimplification and a huge assumption on your part. We don’t know the specifics of what China/Russia knew or how they’d react. We don’t know what radio signals they successfully tracked, if any, what behind-the-scenes talks went on and whether it benefited them in any way to publicly ‘out’ the Americans. NASA deception COULD have been fully known by these countries! Maybe they let it play out so they could observe an interesting and free experiment in mass thought manipulation! Perhaps Russia baited America into faking the moon landings by creating a fake moon race and cynically exploited this?! Russia did, after all, send a tape recording of an astronaut’s voice around the moon in Zond 5, fooling everyone! It was later admitted as fake, yet it fooled people at the time including NASA, who soon afterwards announced it was postponing various… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 28, 2019 5:18 PM
Reply to  gardenfiend

These are my ravings, simply to add balance to your pure speculation.

You are the one speculating, not me.

I’m simply stating facts as they were ascertained at the time and repeated since. It’s the doubters who are speculating and it’s for you lot to PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt that these missions did not occur and that at the height of the Cold War the military might of the USSR and China didn’t know what was going on.

You are discussing nuances in potential probabilities of less than 1 in a trillion, you’ve got an awful long way to go, not me.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 28, 2019 7:30 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

It’s the doubters who are speculating and it’s for you lot to PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt that these missions did not occur I guess I don’t see the moon landings as the foregone conclusion that you do. I actually think they’re pretty fantastical, once you start viewing them dispassionately. I don’t doubt that rockets work in space and that the Earth is round, or anything like that. I’m not trying to tear down the fabric of our universe here. The Apollo missions aren’t a universal axiom of truth, there is actually a lot of very compelling evidence to at least make one think twice about it all. If, in fact, the moon landings are woven into the fabric of YOUR universe to this extent then I think you need to take a step back. Sticking your fingers in your ears and appealing to consensus to fight this particularly battle… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 1, 2019 6:16 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

Still no actual evidence, just scenarios that you made up. And your claims about Zond 5 were patently ridiculous. Zond 5 was originally envisaged to carry a cosmonaut into lunar orbit (it ended up carrying a non-human biological cargo), but this was rejected because of the risk of it going wrong. It seems that the Soviets didn’t have nearly as much confidence in being able to fake it as you think. If they were afraid that they wouldn’t be able to ensure a cover up of a cosmonaut’s death, what makes you think they felt capable of faking something as elaborate as a moon landing? And, as it turns out, they DIDN’T fake a moon landing. Kind of strange if it’s “easy” to do such a thing and if they had the motivation.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 1, 2019 3:08 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Unlike you, I’m not that entrenched. I have doubts, and I’m happy to discuss them. However, I think you need to decide which one of my above hypotheticals you’re going to discussing and have some consistency, rather than combine them all into a random hodgepodge! Zond 5 had a payload of seedlings, two tortoises (or turtles as nasa states ), fruit flies and some other things. All of which have significantly higher radioresistance than humans. The largest animal being the tortoise: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333967199_A_peptide_from_Testudo_horsfieldii_tortoise_spleen_as_a_potential_helper_for_reducing_acute_radiation_syndrome It seems that the Soviets didn’t have nearly as much confidence in being able to fake it as you think. Perhaps! Or perhaps they just didn’t think man would survive the intense solar radiation, as stated by M V Keldysh at the time: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8gYAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false To my knowledge, the US is the only country ever to have sent a man past Low Earth Orbit (LEO). This was in a… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 7, 2019 7:55 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“To my knowledge, the US is the only country ever to have sent a man past Low Earth Orbit (LEO). This was in a 4 year window between 1968-72 and NEVER AGAIN SINCE.” You’re saying that the Cold War context that motivated the US to initiate Apollo and devote enormous human, material and financial is irrelevant and that countries since then would have been unburdened by the enormous costs and resources involved because the US succeeded? And that they wouldn’t have needed a clear political reason to do it themselves? But hang on: that makes no sense. “These missions were suspiciously flawless!” Except they weren’t. NASA tried to give that impression, but we now know that the missions faced many difficulties, some of which came close to becoming show-stoppers for landing on the moon during those missions: “How is it possible that everything went so smoothly? IN A NUTSHELL: It… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 10:56 PM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“We don’t know the specifics of what China/Russia knew or how they’d react. We don’t know what radio signals they successfully tracked, if any, what behind-the-scenes talks went on and whether it benefited them in any way to publicly ‘out’ the Americans.” Ah, so in other words you need to invoke evidence-lacking conspiracies in order to “validate” another evidence-lacking conspiracy. And you ignore what we DO know: that not a single Soviet or other non-US engineer, technician, intelligence official or other person actively involved in tracking the Apollo missions has EVER come forward to recant their claims of doing so. “NASA deception COULD have been fully known by these countries! Maybe they let it play out so they could observe an interesting and free experiment in mass thought manipulation!” “Maybe”; “maybe”; “maybe”. Yeah, let’s just go with “maybe” rather than what there’s actually evidence for. Good job building your “case”.… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Aug 2, 2019 11:08 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

This is cherry-picking and quote-mining and very dishonest! You obviously read the post above, so you’re obviously aware of the point I was making.

I indulged in speculation, to make a point.

These are my ravings, simply to add balance to your pure speculation.

It was clearly rhetorical, and you know this. I then made the point that you just tried to pass off as your own, but rather more elegantly:

Sure, we can theorise, but it’s all massively uninformed conjecture. We shouldn’t construct oversimplified, black & white, either/or scenarios to lend support to one side or the other.

Surely it’s better to focus on some more conclusive support for NASA’s case, or indeed, stronger areas of doubt?

This is so dishonest of you.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 11, 2019 11:51 PM
Reply to  gardenfiend

More blathering by you because you can’t produce any evidence or logic to support your case. And yet I’m the “dishonest” one. It must suck to know that no scientist will ever come around to your point of view, and that you are perpetually stuck in the limbo of appealing to YouTube fake account trolls and corrupt taxi drivers.

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 10:26 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Slightly off-topic: do you appreciate Neil Degrasse-Tyson and his schtick as honest & sincere, or as an act/just some narratives?

Maggie
Maggie
Aug 12, 2019 11:16 PM
Reply to  gardenfiend

Gardenfiend,
Have you not realised yet that this ‘Fight Nonsense’ is a TROLL?
Please stop feeding it.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:03 AM
Reply to  MLS

“because every piece of evidence that would prove Apollo was genuine is either missing or never materialised.” This is itself an evidence-lacking naked assertion other than the endless repetition of moon landing deniers. But maybe you could specify what would qualify as evidence to prove that Apollo was genuine, and then show how it’s “missing”. Try these sources to clear up your confusions and misgivings: Why it would have been logistically impossible to fake the moon landings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXb4Wu5_kv4 Third-party (non-US) evidence that the Apollo missions were authentic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_evidence_for_Apollo_Moon_landings No need to “trust” the US government the standard caricature of moon landing deniers, who set up a false dichotomy between blindly believing the US government on the one hand, and blanket dismissal of anything claimed by the US government on the other. of course, a their way exists: fact-checking). We can just consult what the scientific establishments of what other countries… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 28, 2019 1:06 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Why is so much nonsense posted about this? It’s abundantly clear that NASA went to where the moon was expected to be but the moon wasn’t there, just an old stage set got up to look like it. Someone had stolen the real thing, perhaps millennia ago. As might be expected, what with all the suspicions of bluff and double-bluff the Cold War had engendered, this discovery set off a train of speculation and counterclaim that is still with us half a century later.

MLS
MLS
Jul 28, 2019 10:12 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

If they had taken a decent telescope to the Moon instead of that utterly pointless, gimicky (and implausible) Moon buggy, they would a) have had unparalleled images of deep space, better than anything available through Hubble to this day b) have had solid, irrefutable proof that Apollo went to the Moon. Sadly, they never, once, in six missions, thought to do this. They never even bothered to take pictures of the night sky from the Moon’s surface. Before you write fifteen paras of abuse about this, – yes, I know the aperture speed explains the lack of stars in the sky in the images of Aldrin etc , but it doesn’t explain why they never thought to point the camera at the sky and adjust the speed to take star pics – or why the never took a good telescope. This is one of the major lacunae that worries me.… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 30, 2019 9:51 PM
Reply to  MLS

“If they had taken a decent telescope to the Moon instead of that utterly pointless, gimicky (and implausible) Moon buggy, they would” The “gimmicky” “moon buggy” allowed the astronauts to traverse many miles of the moon’s surface and to collect a larger variety of samples. Saying that it was gimmicky makes about as much sense as saying that astronauts on Mars having a wheeled transport is “gimmicky”. Note that at no point did you provide any sources or facts to hint that the lunar roving vehicle was “implausible”. “a) have had unparalleled images of deep space, better than anything available through Hubble to this day” Pure naked assertions, backed by not a shred of science. You don’t even demonstrate that the images would have been betetr than the largest Earth-based telescopes at the time. “b) have had solid, irrefutable proof that Apollo went to the Moon.” Thanks for admitting that… Read more »

pete m
pete m
Feb 11, 2020 4:46 AM
Reply to  MLS

Compare the near total silence about the magnificent starscape from all the Apollo astronauts to the awe filled descriptions from ISS astronauts from the daylight side of earth orbit .

Mishko
Mishko
Aug 15, 2019 10:32 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

But even so, denying the moon landings is very much not anti-semitic because
of paperclip / the nazis involved in the program.
They should get off of their high horse and admit having raced a hobby-horse
to nowhere at great public expense. Should.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 26, 2019 5:44 AM

Moon landings FACT-CHECK: Russian space geeks seek to fund satellite to scan for lunar mission trace Published time: 25 Jul, 2019 21:45 Edited time: 25 Jul, 2019 21:46 Russian space geeks seek to fund satellite to scan for lunar mission trace Were the American lunar landings real or a hoax? A group of Russian enthusiasts are taking the question seriously, seeking sponsors to send a microsatellite to the Moon – to dispel or confirm the longstanding conspiracy theory. “We deliberately chose targets on the Moon that arouse the greatest public interest,” Vitaly Egorov, the project’s founder, said, explaining why his team decided to search for traces of the Apollo missions on the Earth’s satellite. “We want to recoup the development and launch of the satellite with private donations and advertising contracts – without any government funding.” However, Egorov admitted that he still hoped for cooperation with Russia’s space agency, Roscosmos,… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 10:41 AM

What a garbage waste of money. These “space geeks” also spit in the face of their own country’s space legacy and the competence of its space agency. They’re essentially saying that the Soviet space agency and its engineers, technicians, analysts and scientists were TOO STUPID to be able see through the American “hoax”. Ugh, pathetic.

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 12:44 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Who are you?

You are either some desperate Moon-landing-buff covering your own growing doubts by spamming this thread with hatred for anyone with questions about the nature of the Apollo missions.

Or you’re one of the thousands of paid or hired NASA ‘fact-checkers’ whose brief it is to ‘correct’ any ‘misinformation’ about the Apollo missions.

Either way, why are you so long on abuse and so short on basic info?

I’m not a Moon-hoax type but I can see you’re basically winging it here with minimal data and a lot of bare-faced assertions you simply hope no one has enough knowledge to call you on.

Are you up for any kind of real discussion?

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 26, 2019 10:06 PM
Reply to  MLS

For some things in life there is simply no discussion; man went to the moon.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 26, 2019 11:35 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Mm-hmm. And Jesus is God.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:16 AM

Mm-hmm. And corrupt taxi-drivers who make “documentaries” and wave Bibles in people’s faces while expecting to be taken seriously have more valid things to say about aerospace engineering than actual aerospace engineers. let’s defer to corrupt taxi-drivers from now on for our science and engineering knowledge, everyone.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 27, 2019 2:32 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Exactly FN. Some people are deluded, or delibrately contrarian just for the sake or amusement of it. They think they are being intellectual, but it’s the laziest form of intellectualism possible to simply accept the “evidence” of some clickbait YouTube video.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 27, 2019 9:54 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

For some things in life there is simply no discussion; man didn’t go to the moon, and Jesus is god. There you are Frank: two more unprovable statements of religious certainty – with no more actual-reality-based assurance behind them than yours has.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 27, 2019 2:30 PM

You woke up this morning, at some point went online and posted your reply; it happened, it is real, it’s not a figment of our imagination,nor a conspiracy that you did this.

Similarly, 400,000 people woke up each morning for 10+ years, went to work, delivered the moon landings; it happened, it is real, it’s not a figment of our imagination, nor a conspiracy that they did this.

For 911 i agree that the official story is unreal, and the reason is that REAL firefighters and other witnesses ON SITE that day saw something different. So that’s COMPLETELY different to the lunar landings.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 2:53 AM

So the hundreds of international geologists who have studied the lunar rocks for decades don’t actually know what they’re talking about? INTERESTING.

Guys, this is all “fake”, according to the fake account science “genius” Rhisiart: https://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/samples/

But it’s NOT fake according to ACTUAL GEOLOGISTS, planetary scientists, chemists and physicists.

That seems to be a common juxtaposition when it comes to the Apollo missions. While science “geniuses” like Rhisiart bleat about there being “no evidence” for Apollo’s authenticity, scientists all over the world calmly continue to accumulate knowledge of the universe by using material brought back from Apollo.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:06 AM
Reply to  MLS

Hi MLS,

thank you for your emotion-laden and fact-free response. I look forward to you actually addressing a single thing I’ve said. Until then, your posts should be considered quite worthless.

“I’m not a Moon-hoax type but I can see you’re basically winging it here with minimal data and a lot of bare-faced assertions you simply hope no one has enough knowledge to call you on.”

I look forward to someone actually rising to the challenge. Will you? Or will you simply continue to rely on naked assertions such as “there is no evidence proving the Apollo missions.”

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:13 AM
Reply to  MLS

“You are either some desperate Moon-landing-buff covering your own growing doubts by spamming this thread with hatred for anyone with questions about the nature of the Apollo missions.” Unlike sunken-costs moon landing deniers, I have no “growing doubts”. Quite the contrary, actually: my conviction that the Apollo missions were authentic has only been STRENGTHENED by the charlatanry and dishonesty in this comment section. I’m afraid that the shot-gun method to truth – firing off a thousand lies in the hope that one of them will hit its target – doesn’t suffice for building a coherent, scientifically tenable case. Don’t get me wrong, though. I’m happy to talk about any claims that you feel are compelling and suggest that the Apollo missions might not have happened. It’s just that whenever someone has ventured in that direction, they’ve ended up emoting in the end because their claims have been shown to be… Read more »

pete m
pete m
Feb 11, 2020 4:52 AM
Reply to  MLS

I wouldn’t bother . All Apollo fanbois who haunt the comment threads of anything related to NASA use abuse and ad hominem to derail discussions about the NASA/CIA/DoD Apollo fraud.

NASbArats I call ’em due to the similar MO used by paid apologists for the Apartheid state.

pete m
pete m
Feb 11, 2020 4:57 AM
Reply to  pete m

JW does a great job of exposing Phil Webb as the charlatan he is, along with his NASbArat associates like Jay ‘Windbag’ Windley .

Dave Mc Gowan also does a good job on exposing ’em in wagging the moondoggie. 🙂

Tom
Tom
Jul 25, 2019 10:55 PM

I very much doubt man went to the moon at all. The footage looks very suspect, as is the fact we have not been ‘back’ in 45 years despite experience allegedly gained and the huge advances in computer technology which should make the whole mission much easier. The anniversary tributes are merely propaganda, frantically peddled by an increasingly discredited American state terrified of the consequences of being caught out in this huge lie.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 10:43 AM
Reply to  Tom

“I very much doubt man went to the moon at all. The footage looks very suspect,”

Tell us how it “should” look, “space expert” who gets his science from Hollywood films and children’s coloring books”.

“as is the fact we have not been ‘back’ in 45 years despite experience allegedly gained and the huge advances in computer technology which should make the whole mission much easier.”

Wait, so you’re saying that the technology to “fake” it has devolved in the 45 years since it was “faked”, and that’s why no one has “faced” it again?

“The anniversary tributes are merely propaganda, frantically peddled by an increasingly discredited American state terrified of the consequences of being caught out in this huge lie.”

Prove it, imbecile.

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 12:50 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

If – big if – the moon landings were faked in 1969-72 it would indeed be next to impossible to repeat that fakery today. Too many watching eyes. Too many ways of homing in on signal sources, too much easily available software for analysing audio and visual data. It’d be a fool’s errand to try and put any such hoax across today.

Pro tip – try replying without resorting to abuse.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 26, 2019 10:24 PM
Reply to  MLS

The Russians and Chinese were monitoring all the radio telemetry, even radio amateurs were doing it. You have zero clue, but trying to come across as some wise guy.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:32 AM
Reply to  MLS

“If – big if – the moon landings were faked in 1969-72 it would indeed be next to impossible to repeat that fakery today. Too many watching eyes.” You’re saying that the KGB and GRU didn’t exist, and that they didn’t have allied intelligence agencies who were also monitoring US government activities at the time, including for the purposes of industrial espionage? You’re saying that engineers, scientists and technicians of the time wee all so stupid that they wouldn’t be able to put two and two together to realize they were being duped? You’re saying that the countless engineers and specialists working on Apollo, who were in constant consultation with other engineers and specialists to develop the systems and components into a working common package, were not doing any real problem solving and that they might have been “tricked” in their hundreds of thousands by a handful of “knowing insiders”?… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 28, 2019 5:48 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

““I very much doubt man went to the moon at all. The footage looks very suspect,””

“Tell us how it “should” look, “space expert…”

Very unsuspect.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 7:16 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

“““I very much doubt man went to the moon at all. The footage looks very suspect,””

“Tell us how it “should” look, “space expert…”

“Very unsuspect.”

Interesting take, especially from the intellectual kinsman of someone who still hasn’t answered my question and instead consciously chooses to hide from it. I’m sure he’ll have the might of science behind him once he steps up to the task. Won’t he?

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 26, 2019 10:22 PM
Reply to  Tom

I have a conspiracy theory too – that such completely irrational conspiracy theories which fly in the face of established facts and posit that we never went to the moon, that the Earth is flat, etc, are a very deliberate and psychops campaign to get the population believing any old rubbish. The intention being to disconnect people from established facts and truth, and to become a highly malleable and controlled society which will accept any fiction which it is fed, happily, uncritically, unwaveringly. Welcome to 1984.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:19 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

If I was the government, I would certainly far prefer that people be fighting over the moon landings than discussing immediately urgent matters of politics. Moon landing denial may well be a CIA psy-op. It might also be one with the purpose not to dumb people down in and of itself, but to study people being dumbed-down and how susceptible they become to nonsensical and scientifically untenable claims.

Steve
Steve
Jul 25, 2019 10:05 PM

Life is short; spend as much time as you can arguing with strangers on the Internet.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 7:28 PM

A suggestion for a small practical joke, to be played on ‘Fight nonsense’: First, post a couple of currently inflammatory tropes – inflammatory, that is to fuming, ad-hom-spraying guardians of current orthodoxy (who get so inflamed when anyone has the effrontery to use basic freedom of speech to challenge – or at least to discuss sceptically – one of their current “absolutely settled, unquestionable, sacred scientific ‘truths'”). I suggest as one piece of bait: the tidal wave of disquieting evidence that current vaccinations protocols are obviously not safe, and more about Big Pharma gangsters making vast profits than about lessening human sickness, suffering and death. (Note, like most vaccine sceptics, I’m not saying here that all vaccination is inherently bad; sometimes it’s useful; Dr. Andrew Wakefield, amongst many others campaigning for socially- and ecologically-responsible vaccination protocols, is quite clear about that.) The other bit of red-rag bait might be the… Read more »

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 10:51 PM

Rise 1! LOLOLOL! More, nonsense: Go on, again! :O)

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 11:30 PM

Come on nonsense! Do some more foaming ad-homs. They’re such a hoot! More LOLz! More! Get that old spittle-flecking spray going! :O)

Meanwhile – to improve the hilariously-shining hour – here’s some more Dmitry Orlov, just published, with some very specific information on how the Moon-hoax scam was done (Dmitry seems well-armed with lots of dissident Russian facts, and in little doubt that the landings were faked):

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/07/how-to-fake-mission.html

[You’ll just get a tantalising taster at the link. To read the whole – broadside – piece, you’ll have to subscribe to Dmitry’s Subscribestar account, as I do. Worth every penny! :)]

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 11, 2019 11:58 PM

Pathetic fake news website. Orlov is another clown peddling the same tired, dreary nonsense to people like you. But I could be wrong. Did you have a specific claim by Orlov that you wanted to discuss, or did you just want to signal that you enjoy being fleeced by liars and con men?

MrChops
MrChops
Jul 25, 2019 11:00 PM

Nonsense is all over this thread but no comment to my Jarrah White link. Funny that.

Figth nonsense
Figth nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 2:09 PM
Reply to  MrChops

For systematic debunkings of White’s videos, see here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdINUnNfanbUdsjdbi-ltbOOanMY9xtJa

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 6:37 PM
Reply to  Figth nonsense

Do better please. JW has made some very good points regarding the Van Allen belts and much else, which still awaits serious refutation.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:43 AM
Reply to  MLS

He’s done nothing remotely of the sort. All his claims are bunk and he makes endless sophomoric errors. P.S. no actual scientists or engineers agree with him. That should worry you. But maybe it won’t, given that you’re entirely too comfortable with getting your science from corrupt taxi-drivers who weirdly wave Bibles in people’s faces and still expect to be taken seriously.

Which specific claims would you like to discuss, though? I’d be happy to do so. Don’t just hide behind “This guy is a honest and he makes good videos. I promise.”

“which still awaits serious refutation.” None of Jarrah’s claims are serious to begin with, because they get everything basically wrong and rely on endless logical fallacies. If you don’t agree, we can delve into them. If you prefer to argue by proclamation, then you be you, I guess.

Ramdan
Ramdan
Jul 25, 2019 11:16 PM

Wow…FN.. either that guy is like 90 yo with nothing else to do than replying everyone…..or he’s getting paid to do it..Sheesh….
…there are other possibilities but they seem less likely with each new reply….oh Lord!..

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 10:47 AM
Reply to  Ramdan

How come you haven’t refuted a single thing I’ve said? Why do you guys insist on being the intellectual equivalents of pederasts ?

Ramdan
Ramdan
Jul 26, 2019 1:24 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Oh, FN, we hail you!
You are right,
You’ve been right and
You’ll always be!

Oh, FN, we salute You!
We, the miserables, pay homage
to your all encompassing knowledge.
Everything that was: You know!
Everything that is: You know,
And everything that will ever be.

Miserere, FN,
Miserere nobis!

Figth nonsense
Figth nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:39 PM
Reply to  Ramdan

Do better, please.

Ramdan
Ramdan
Jul 26, 2019 1:58 PM
Reply to  Figth nonsense

I’ll try, Oh, Lord!
I’ll try…..😖

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:38 AM
Reply to  Ramdan

I should hope so. Your efforts so far have relied too much on the views of corrupt taxi-drivers and not on actual verified science.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Jul 26, 2019 8:21 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

“Pederasts” is an interesting expression: where did you come by that Flight nonsense ?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:37 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

From your demeanor and lack of commitment to reality.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Jul 27, 2019 9:35 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Are you ‘Homophobic’ or just plain out of control angry, generally speaking ? Your anger has certainly not done science any favours ! NASA also not … Take a long hard objective look below and checkout how the repeated rush of blood to your brain, (from others’ comments), & consider how that ‘rush’ detracts from anything scientific & constructive, you may have to say >>> take some oxygen, then try again . . . and answer me this:- Do you understand what S.T.E.V.E. does ? If you are unsure of the acronym, check NASA, who invented it. I’m so glad that I haven’t even read the article, yet … because there are seriously more important issues to discuss in my book of priorities, than spending as much time as you can arguing with strangers on the Internet, ironically as “STEVE” dictates, repeatedly:- Strong Thermal Emissions Velocity Enhancement : S>T>E>V>E Less… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 2:58 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

Why would you allude to homosexuality unless you you equate pederasty with it? I didn’t say that you masturbate in front of boys; I said that you’re the intellectual equivalent of someone who masturbates in front of CHILDREN. And yet you ask “Are you homophobic?” The hypocrisy is disgusting and inhuman.

I noticed that you haven’t addressed any points I’ve raised. You’re too busy engaging in the logical fallacy known as “poisoning the well”.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Jul 28, 2019 12:00 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I notice that you haven’t addressed the Strong Thermal Emission Velocity Enhancement matter, yet … no surprises there 🙂

By the way it was YOU that alluded to pederasts, you firkin’ imbecile, not me …

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 11:26 PM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

There is no “matter” to address because you haven’t spelled out an ARGUMENT specifying what you’re actually saying here. Bashing words together on your keyboard and then laying down a gauntlet doesn’t add up to an argument. Try again, this time without the delinquent juvenile deceit, evasion, sexism (“women drivers”) and blue blood entitlement (“do you have any idea who my FATHER is?” By the way, I’d like to hear from him. Could you post me a link to his work?).

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 1, 2019 6:44 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

“I notice that you haven’t addressed the Strong Thermal Emission Velocity Enhancement matter”

Care to elaborate on what you’re even mumbling about here and why it poses the least bit of difficulty for the veracity of Apollo? Otherwise it can’t be “addressed”.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Jul 29, 2019 9:40 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

FYI, the word pederast is of Greek origins, however, in the Cyrillic culture today, it is widely employed daily to describe a homosexual. Even road raged women drivers, with a temperament like yours, employ this term, which helps to demonstrate that YOU don’t have a clue what yer’ talking about … Greek paiderastēs, literally, lover of boys, from paid- ped- + erastēs lover, from erasthai to love … In the early 70’s my godfather was working for NASA on Laser Technology. He also went on to become chief scientific advisor for the M.o.D. 1993-1999. His surrogate father from WW2 onwards, was my grandfather, from whom I also learnt about physics, micro-radio-waves, energy, frequency & vibrations & the Van Allen belts. Grandfather was instrumental in many innovative areas of M.o.D designs for Radio & Radar installations, even before WW2 and before the propaganda machines began, like the BBC. I focussed more… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 11:19 PM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

“In the early 70’s my godfather was working for NASA on Laser Technology. He also went on to become chief scientific advisor for the M.o.D. 1993-1999. His surrogate father from WW2 onwards, was my grandfather, from whom I also learnt about physics, micro-radio-waves, energy, frequency & vibrations & the Van Allen belts. Grandfather was instrumental in many innovative areas of M.o.D designs for Radio & Radar installations, even before WW2 and before the propaganda machines began, like the BBC. I focussed more on the corporate side of Tech. at my grandfather’s behest, including studying Bernard Eastlund’s HAARP designs for phasing antennas & modulation & focussing of same, to engineer weather and search for oil & gas fields …” I think you might have invented a new type of logical fallacy: the “my relatives were such-and-such, therefore I know about such-and-such” fallacy. And yet your ARGUMENTS don’t hold up to any… Read more »

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Jul 30, 2019 12:42 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Not empty, coz’ I have clearly sussed another scientific moron who is also illiterate, coz’ it clearly states my godfather was working for NASA on Laser Tech. not my grandfather, if you had only read & digested that which you copy pasted, (you wanker, check your text & your brain oxygen capacity, as instructed) and you therefore are very clearly just another troll I bagged up & cornered and from now on, I & some others know conclusively not to waste time on you… Clouds & silver linings: you bellend. What you think from now on, is of ground zero, typical Terra Firma importance… a negative discharge, just to earth & bury & move on, over your grave 🙂 DR DADE rules, 🙂 Don’t Read Don’t Answer Don’t Engage, with S>T>E>V>E @Flight Nonsense You will henceforth be completely ignored, as virtual scum. Enjoy your life trolling & Tschuss… over &… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 12, 2019 12:03 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

Let the record show: Tim thinks that “My godfather worked of NASA” is some sort of argument. I guess that’s why this miserable little troll still can’t cough up an actual argument.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 12, 2019 12:11 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Edit: “at NASA”, not “of NASA”. Wouldn’t want Tim to concern troll over grammar.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 28, 2019 6:43 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

“Do you understand what S.T.E.V.E. does ? If you are unsure of the acronym, check NASA, who invented it.” The acronym S.T.E.V.E. waa invented by a Canadian amateur aurora watcher and arrived at NASA via a circuitous route through more academically inclined early adopters. (As a childhood aurora and weather watcher, I still take some vague nostalgic interest in the meanaderings of that long-abandoned pursuit and its adherents). Are you a legal adviser to the Vatican Kiddie Club? I have an in-law who was a senior lawyer involved in disentangling the Banco Ambrosiano / Robert Calvi fallout. As he never spoke about his work, I found out only this year, as an incidental and personally interesting but otherwise irrelevant piece of information that was, nevertheless, a direct result of checking out some basic/documented/irrefutable facts relating to an O-G article. Just as in most financial structures, old money trumps new money,… Read more »

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Jul 28, 2019 11:55 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Lol, I know yer’ right, I was just trying to wind him up with more nonsense & see what he knew, given the way that this comments thread has degenerated into the average ad hom. online slanging match, for which he’s directly responsible … Long live the purple streaker, STEVE … who affects CLIMATE 😉 A hot gas cloud travelling @13,420 mph and 3,000ºC hotter than surrounding air temperatures, a mere 186 miles above us … ******************************** Funny you should mention Roberto Calvi,I was in Blackfriars, early that morning, with an envelope of press cuttings for ‘that’ bank: fascinating case. My ex-father-in-law worked for Bank Leu for 42 years, finishing as Chief of Investments & Securities: he wanted his pension paid out in full, (not monthly payments): he advised them 3 years in advance, aged 62, then they pretended not to have received his recorded delivery declaration and put him… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 28, 2019 5:56 AM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

“Pederasts” is an interesting expression: where did you come by that Flight nonsense ?

In the choir?

pete m
pete m
Feb 11, 2020 5:23 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

FN, there are many scientists + engineers who question the authenticity of the moon landings , a quick search should assist you .

As to the other assertions that you make, in between your ad hom and namecalling, here’s a link which just about covers everything-

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Wagging_the_Moondoggie#250_miles_max_distance_travelled_from_Earth_in_nearly_50_years

Don’t expect a reply from me, I’ve fed enough NASbArat trolls in my time. I’ve heard all your ilks debunked arguments ad nauseum.

mark
mark
Jul 26, 2019 4:28 AM

It is undeniable that the “moon landing” was faked. This has been proven conclusively by all the scientists. The debate is over. The science is settled. There’s no point arguing any more with faked moon landing deniers. They are just conspiracy theorists.

Likewise vaccinations should be avoided at all costs. Anyone who is vaccinated invariably contracts Mad Cow Disease and becomes a gibbering idiot conspiracy theorist, who believes that the moon landing actually occurred, that Bin Laden was killed by Seal Team 6, and that there are no aliens at Area 51. Sadly, there are a lot of these people.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Jul 25, 2019 5:35 PM

The best analysis, I have seen of the “moon landings”, and incidentally of 9/11, (within 24hrs) and many other related matters was by the sadly deceased Dave McGowan. I do not expect anyone, to change their mind, as a result of his work, because hardly anyone changes their mind, if others’ analyses conflicts with their long held beliefs, and I believed the moon landings were real for over 30 years. I am now 100% convinced that the photography was faked. However that does not prove that the moon landings were faked. It just makes it far more probable. I personally think they achieved, almost all of the project, except the parts that were at the time physically impossible. I also think the project was extremely worthwhile in terms of rapid technological, cultural and motivational development. It was a great time to be young. Just look at what we can do.… Read more »

George
George
Jul 25, 2019 9:52 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Mr McGowan is much missed. I particularly liked this essay on the “Tattoo Theorists” i.e. the ones who are vehemently opposed to those skeptical of a plane hitting the Pentagon:

http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/september11-act-ii-addendum-ii/

This is much on my mind at present since, thanks to Flaxgirl, I have been watching this film skeptical of planes hitting the Twin Towers:

Question This
Question This
Jul 26, 2019 1:09 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

I do not expect anyone, to change their mind…….. because hardly anyone changes their mind

Never a truer word has been spoken, people have usually made up their minds before the first word has ever been spoken. Something i think most of us are probably guilty of .

George
George
Jul 26, 2019 7:16 AM
Reply to  Question This

One of the best quotes I have read is this one from Frank Zappa:

“One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people’s minds.”

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 5:58 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

I read Wagging the Moondoggie and found it very compelling and I really loved the name. Isn’t it wonderful? However, although I found it compelling I went ahead and did my own research and I got stuck at the hours and hours of audio between Houston and the astronauts. I couldn’t see how on earth (or on the moon :)) it could be faked. Astronauts are not actors and I simply cannot see them trying to fake this audio or how it could be produced any other way. And why would they make them do all this audio six times. That’s just ridiculous. I also cannot see how you can fake the sunlight reflected on the moon with a black sky. If only someone would actually fake the moon landings or even aspects of them … with the technology available at the time … then I could believe it but… Read more »

ChrisG
ChrisG
Jul 25, 2019 4:29 PM

Agree with ‘Flight nonsense’ regarding hoax moon landings. 9/11 is something else. The evidence after months of wading through massive nonsense, like space beams, holographic aircraft and more lately no deaths, is overwhelming that the 3 skyscrapers that fell, (with only two aircraft hits), did so due to controlled demolition. As this is off topic it’ll have to be left there.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 28, 2019 1:36 PM
Reply to  ChrisG

You need to shift the waters in which you wade, ChrisG. One extremely effective propaganda technique is pushing out loads of theories many of which are ludicrous. Thus, when people start looking and come across the ludicrous theories they tend to think, “Oh, what a bunch of conspiracy theorist nonsense” and turn away. My website provides a succinct, comprehensive explanation of 9/11 https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/911.html The basic points are this: 9/11 was a Trauma-based Mind Control Psychological Operation in the form of a massive Full-Scale Exercise involving multiple drills. The only major realities on the day were the destructions of three buildings at the WTC by controlled demolition and damage to all other buildings at the WTC (caused by various methods) and damage to the West Wing of the Pentagon. There were no hijackings, no plane crashes and death and injury were staged. This may sound utterly incredible but there is ample… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 28, 2019 1:52 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Actually, they faked injury to only a pretty small number of people – they just told us the number of people was 6,000.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 28, 2019 1:39 PM
Reply to  ChrisG

So sorry, ChrisG, I didn’t read your post properly – I now see you agree that it was controlled demolition but think there’s lots of other nonsense including “no deaths”. The rest of what you say I agree is nonsense but not “no deaths”.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

RedRobbo
RedRobbo
Jul 25, 2019 3:59 PM

Like a dog lifting its leg to mark it’s territory, we landed on the Moon, we peed on it, and we left.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:51 PM
Reply to  RedRobbo

Actually, to save weight, poop and pee was indeed left on the moon, so you’re not wrong.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 25, 2019 1:31 PM

I have not heard of the author before – who he? Anyway he seems to be trying to re-write history. A QUICK BACKGROUND When JFK was elected in a surprise win against Nixon, the wheels started coming off the captured US State department and the cfr controllers refused to bow down to the critical thinking of the new Administration. When that thinking showed there was no ‘winning’ a nuclear war, they developed the MAD concept to explain it. The Russians were on board and Kruschev/Kennedy people decided on a proxy to see which of the models of human organisation was better for the majority of people communist or capitalist – not by continued building and deploying of Nukes – but deciding it by who got to land on the moon and RETURN first. The Russians not only had the first satellite but also the first man in space who returned… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:56 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Lots of conjecture. And what was that nonsense about “Atlantists”?

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 26, 2019 4:06 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Atlantists? Obviously a short cut for ancient lizards from a magic drowned island who secretly rule the world with their pyramids and all seeing eyes ….

Wtf do you think I meant?

You have turned up to have a go at the topics and comments on this site.

So far you haven’t addressed the specific points or links provided.

You are coming across as a ‘bellend’ of the Atlantic Council /Integrity Initiative type.

Until you prove other wise – J’accuse.

Lol.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:46 AM
Reply to  DunGroanin

“So far you haven’t addressed the specific points or links provided.” Yes, because the movie “Aquaman” isn’t an actual history of the world.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 27, 2019 1:36 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Another attempt at diversion.

I have given you facts and links.

You are just spaffing off on this site. Enjoying it?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:49 AM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Pretty rich coming from someone who is so committed to ignoring facts that he actually believes the most well documented and scrutinized space missions in history were all “fake”.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 28, 2019 10:42 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!

I have NEVER CLAIMED the moon landing to be FAKE.

With that masterfjl prat fall perhaps you should give up public spaffing before your sore and grizzled bellend comes of in your spaffy hand and you damage your chances of reproduction even further. ROFLMAO.

NEXT!

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 28, 2019 11:26 AM
Reply to  DunGroanin

This commwnt is superceded by the one appearing above (in my browser)

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 28, 2019 11:24 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Ok – FN – i think what we have here is a ‘failure of communication’ … I had not looked down the comments as i was certain they would be full of ‘fake landing’ crap. Just having done so – i see that i was correct. I have also just seen your efforts at taking them ALL on! I can see that you have taken my comment on the author and my explanation of why the extremely hazardous manned landing competition with the Russians came about to be in some way associated with the denialists. Given that you are fighting almost everyone here – i will excuse that you have put me in that camp. You may be confused. The ‘Bellend’ ‘spaffing’ riff i employed refers to Bellingcat, a creation of the Atlantic Council/Nato spooky types to produce supposed internet researched by supposef ‘citizen journalists’ to ‘prove’ that Russia and… Read more »

ZolEyu
ZolEyu
Jul 25, 2019 1:21 PM
Monobazeus
Monobazeus
Jul 25, 2019 12:49 PM

https://imgur.com/Zpk1qLh?s=wa

Rediscovered video sequence US moon landing is well worth a look.

Maggie
Maggie
Jul 25, 2019 3:57 PM
Reply to  Monobazeus

brilliant…

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 26, 2019 11:44 PM
Reply to  Maggie

Indeed! Even funnier than ‘nonsense’s unhinged frothings – to cover his/her own doubts, perhaps? :O)

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:48 AM

What “doubts” would you like to address?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:51 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Imagine being so pathetic that even when someone offers to address your doubts and invites you to air them, you STILL can only manage a passive-aggressive thumbs down.

Neil
Neil
Jul 25, 2019 12:23 PM

I’m remembering this from that time which kinda said it all for me – and still does today.

Kathy
Kathy
Jul 25, 2019 2:52 PM
Reply to  Neil

I had intended on posting this up but then saw your post. It puts it all in perspective for me too.

Question This
Question This
Jul 25, 2019 11:33 AM

I have to say i don’t really care if they did go to the moon or not, never had any real opinion on it one way or another. We all know what the race into space was about, ICBM technology.

What I will say is when ever i have seen the pictures I’ve always thought the moon looks very small! Why does the horizon seem so close to the astronauts? Why is the horizon curved? there could be very simple explanations, I’ve never wasted time looking for answers.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 8:50 AM
Reply to  Question This

Why not just fact-check if you’re genuinely curious?

“I’ve never wasted time looking for answers.” Ah. Okay, then.

Question This
Question This
Jul 27, 2019 9:57 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Was there a point to your comment?

Reading through this thread you look quite fanatical about this subject, but why do you care if others don’t believe? What is it you’re protecting?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:54 AM
Reply to  Question This

“Was there a point to your comment?”

Yes, to show your hypocrisy.

“Reading through this thread you look quite fanatical about this subject, but why do you care if others don’t believe? What is it you’re protecting?”

So you can’t actually address anything I say, instead preferring to concern-troll about my tone? Interesting.

Question This
Question This
Jul 28, 2019 6:09 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

But you don’t have anything to say. You’re just an argument looking for a person.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 7:07 AM
Reply to  Question This

“But you don’t have anything to say. You’re just an argument looking for a person.”

Interesting take! Especially from a charlatan who refuses to specify his own criteria for what he would accept as “objective independent evidence”, slinks away like a coward from specifying what would count to him as non-dodgy film and footage (and makes a circular argument fallacy by pre-supposing the very thing he’s supposed to be demonstrating: that the film and footage are “fake” because they’re “dodgy”), and has failed miserably to even begin demonstrating that the film and footage could all have been faked with the cinematography of the time. To top it off, he relies purely upon argument by proclamation: naked-assertion fallacies coupled with zero scientific content and backing from any scientific sources.

Question This
Question This
Jul 28, 2019 7:30 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Thanks for the laugh, brightened my morning.

binra
binra
Jul 25, 2019 10:50 AM

https://off-guardian.org/2019/07/25/lunar-narratives-landing-on-the-moon-politics-and-the-cold-war/ I always celebrate an article that reveals more of the human condition without framing it in personal vendetta or self vindication. But the glimpse is soon crowded out by reactions to the subject. Presenting a seeming unity is the nature of an individual or social persona or presentation as a cover story or adjustment and counter to the hate or conflict that runs beneath. Such has been the nature of the development of human consciousness as a result of a loss of that which truly unifies to an interjection of imposed control or conflict management. The love hate alloy of the ‘human conditioning’ is perhaps a polarised replacement of a love that HAS no opposite – and yet the play in opposition is the development of a consciousness through which the freedom to accept existence opens from a sense of being projected or ‘separated’ into existence. I WANT IT… Read more »

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Jul 25, 2019 7:16 AM

While we quibble over the moon landings or Sept 11, the Corparasites
continue to rage, rip, rape and rule.
Let’s focus on the REAL enemies.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 7:38 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

To combat the real enemies, you need science, not just outrage. The moon landing isn’t just about some guys walking on the moon; it’s about the nature of knowing. And if we tell each other that it’s okay if people believe in just any bullshit, then we leave them open to manipulation.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Jul 25, 2019 7:47 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Mind manipulation requires two conditions.
A collapsing education system and weapons of mass distraction.
Both have been planned and carried out by insatiable corporations.
The enemy wears a suit.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 9:50 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

How does this preclude what I said?

George
George
Jul 25, 2019 4:55 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Who is telling us “it’s okay if people believe in just any bullshit”?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 10:58 AM
Reply to  George

The imbeciles in this comment section screeching, hissing and bleating that the moon landings were “faked”. I guess these imbeciles think they’re more resourceful than the KGB, which according, was “tricked” while stupidly named YouTube fake account trolls have “cracked” the “greatest hoax of the 20th century.”

George
George
Jul 26, 2019 5:02 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

“The imbeciles in this comment section” are not saying ““it’s okay if people believe in just any bullshit”. You’re the one who said it.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 9:19 AM
Reply to  George

No, YOU did, but implicitly, not explicitly. After all, you’re telling us that corrupt taxi-drivers are to be trusted over and above actual scientists and engineers.

George
George
Jul 27, 2019 11:37 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Oh hello, Mr Nonsense.

First off, if you’re going to argue about what people said “implicitly” then you can make them say anything you want.

Second, I have no idea who Jarrah White is but I assume he is the one you referred to (ten times) as a “corrupt taxi-driver”. Not quite sure what that is. Perhaps a Travis Bickle character? (And, incidentally, repeating a claim ten times doesn’t automatically make it true.)

Third, anyone who actually says “it’s okay if people believe in just any bullshit” can’t say anything else since they have effectively allowed everything. The folk who are claiming the moon landings were faked may be wrong but they’re not saying anyone can believe anything.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 5:54 AM
Reply to  George

You’re right, actually. Moon landing deniers DON’T think it’s okay for people to believe in just any bullshit. They want people to believe in THEIR bullshit.

Question This
Question This
Jul 26, 2019 1:25 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Here’s one possible explanation for such skepticism. We all know the real reason for the exploration into space, it wasn’t about doing the difficult thing but about nuking your neighbors! Perhaps flights into space were a real aspiration in the 60’s as a cover to develop military satellites & missiles, maybe it was their intention to visit the moon for what ever reason (probably to install some sort of weapon system in the future, to get the edge on their opponent) Maybe not. Maybe it all went tits up & to save face the CIA staged the landing. Maybe the CIA staged the landing as a cover. What we do know is this would be typical behavior of the deep state. What we also know is we will never learn the truth. I have watched a few conspiracy theory docs about the “fake” moon landings, I have no opinion on… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 10:56 AM
Reply to  Question This

“Maybe”, “maybe”, “maybe”, you blather. And still no actual arguments.

Question This
Question This
Jul 26, 2019 10:41 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Well that was a bit rude of you.

You keep asserting your certainty it happened but offer no evidence.

You have a few eye witness accounts, many anecdotal stories, some dodgy film & pictures. If I offered you some dodgy film, a few eye witness accounts & lots of anecdote that big foot existed you would rubbish any claim without physical verifiable evidence.

Any scientist worth the title would never make the claim of anything being a certainty, science deals in likelihood not certainty! You my friend are not a scientist , well not in the true meaning of the word. You’re probability one of those Liberal scientism worshipers.

Wheres your evidence it happened?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 9:17 AM
Reply to  Question This

Your response was replete with naked assertions and outright falsehoods. For example, you stupidly claim that “dodgy films” are offered as evidence, but you ignore (or are simply ignorant of) the fact that the films show exactly what we would expect them to show if indeed they were shot on the moon, such as that the dust behaves in exactly the way one would expect of dust in a vacuum (i.e the dust doesn’t loiter in the “air” – because there is no air. It falls in parabolic arches rather than swirling). Your claim of “dodginess” is a function of your own laziness, not a statement about the quality of the films themselves. “You have a few eye witness accounts,” This is a banality. Only a direct witnesses to being on the moon are available, because only a few people went to the moon. “any anecdotal stories,” All of which… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jul 27, 2019 9:43 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Ewww rattled are we?

Objective independent evidence only if you please. Nothing you’ve quoted so far qualifies.

Film, photos, professional witnesses, subjective speculation & assumption aren’t acceptable. We aren’t talking about AGW.

For example how would we know what dust does or what moon rock looks like if no one has been there? Just because you say so don’t make it so. Interesting point you make about moon dust, doing what we would expect it to do! just sounds suspect, not proof.

I only want facts not fanatical fictions.

Reverting to ad-hom insults & attacks only makes you look childish & less credible not knowledgeable.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 5:18 AM
Reply to  Question This

“Film, photos, professional witnesses, subjective speculation & assumption aren’t acceptable.” Wait: footage and photos don’t count as evidence? Then why do you imbeciles keep claiming that it can be used to “disprove” the moon landings? “professional witnesses” Tens of thousands of them, not one of whom has ever recanted their position. There, fixed it for you. Somebody reading “professional witnesses” might get the erroneous impression that it was only a coupe of guys. “For example how would we know what dust does or what moon rock looks like if no one has been there?” You’re saying that geologists don’t know what they’re talking about and that subsequent non-US orbital probes using remote chemical sensors haven’t verified what the Apollo astronauts brought back? You’re saying that the Luna probes sent and brought back by the Soviet Union didn’t corroborate the findings of Apollo? “Just because you say so don’t make it… Read more »

Question This
Question This
Jul 28, 2019 6:12 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Does big foot exist?

I want to believe….But

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 7:01 AM
Reply to  Question This

See that, everyone? Once again, pure straw-man argument. And, oh, look at that, everyone: he failed (how “surprising”) to specify what he would accept as “objective independent evidence” after being invited to do so; he failed to specify what would count as non-dodgy film and footage by his own chosen criteria, even as he failed to show any evidence that this film and footage could all have been faked using the cinematography technology at the time. He’s a worthless troll, in other words. Can you say “defeated and exhausted”, Question This? It’s what you are. You’re done here.

mark
mark
Jul 26, 2019 4:37 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

We live in a post truth era.
You have to choose your own reality now, according to personal taste and convenience.
There are no longer any facts, just opinions masquerading as certainties.
You can believe in moon landings or faked moon landings according to personal whims.
You can become the opposite sex, or a zebra, or a lamp post, just by identifying yourself as such.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 26, 2019 7:52 AM
Reply to  mark

Really mark? The old rules of physics, chemistry, biology can now be suspended at will, can they? Would you mind demonstrating that by coming over here and just stepping out of this high window – as Daniel Dunglas Home and Joseph of Cupertino are reported to have done – and floating around above the ground, in freely-chosen defiance of gravity…? No? No, I thought not… 🙂 Though, as a matter of actual hard fact I do think that the evidence is rather good that odd-ball individuals with unusual levels of a particular set of – apparently universal – mental talents can indeed do the sort of stuff that Home and Joseph (and others) did. Seen a fair bit of such ‘impossible’ stuff myself, in a long quest for close encounters with psi, so I’m imbued with that firm empirical conviction that comes most strongly from direct personal witnessing. But that’s… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 10:55 AM

“The old rules of physics, chemistry, biology can now be suspended at will, can they?”

According to imbeciles like you, they can be completely discarded and a new”truth” erected in place of the scientific method when the answer comes out “wrong” and doesn’t align with your dogmato-lunatic horseshit.

mark
mark
Jul 26, 2019 9:34 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Why not? Works fine with 9/11, Skripal, Syria gas attacks, MH17, anything you like. Lewis Carroll knew what he was talking about.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 2:23 AM
Reply to  mark

Hmmmm, “interesting”. I guess anything to avoid looking at evidence, huh?

mark
mark
Jul 26, 2019 9:31 PM

Yes, that’s right. There are no such things as solid objects. We don’t exist. Nothing exists. We are all a big hologram. You can believe in anything you like now. Anything goes. Whatever takes your fancy. Next week I’m going to believe I’m a zebra.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 27, 2019 12:51 AM
Reply to  mark

Close, mark; but not quite the most interesting hypothesis; you need to look into Tom Campbell’s ‘My Big TOE’ for that. He agrees that what we call the physical, material world is actually a virtual reality, whose ‘solid, material’ objects are only rendered to the perceiver as an information-stream when a unit of consciousness – a mind, of some sort – takes a look to see. Otherwise, there’s nothing there at all; the rendering intelligence doesn’t waste computing time attempting to render information when no mind is demanding it. “If a tree falls in the wood when no-one’s watching…” No, because *when no-one’s watching*, there is no tree, nor any wood. However, the evolved rule-set of this reality – the ‘laws’ of physics – continue to apply, consistent with previous known evolutions, and constrain the experiences of any mind playing in it. Which is why you won’t step out of… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 4:58 AM

“which we purport to break at our peril – as with going to the Moon without first overcoming all the intractable physics problems that that presents.”

Literally no engineer claims that the physics problems were intractable. They’re only intractable in the lazy minds of people like you and your tax-driver “space geniuses” who are too shiftless to do a bit of science instead of engaging in naked assertion fallacies.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 5:00 AM

Moon landing deniers: “These problems are physically intractable. A corrupt tax-driver told me so, so it must be true.”

Also moon landing deniers: “Millions of actual engineers say otherwise? Well, they’re all shills, stupid or paid by the government, then.”

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 10:53 AM
Reply to  mark

It’s true. We now live in an era where the intellectual equivalents of pederasts have an equal “say” in matters of science as actual scientists.

crank
crank
Jul 25, 2019 6:29 AM

Watch Mazzucco’s film American Moon. It is no nonsense and well made (like his 911 film, it considers two sides).
The moon landings were faked and cannot be replicated with current technology. The photography was a terrible effort especially, and the best part of the film is the commentary of professional photographers who are looking at the Apollo photos analytically for the first time.

We should just move on from this though. The event (whatever its true nature) was a kind of apotheosis of the ‘religion of progress’, which- in case anyone hasn’t noticed yet, has gone into reverse.
Instead we might focus on the publication of Webb’s second article tomorrow about the Epstein blackmail ring which is a huge conspiracy with much more immediate consequences.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 7:24 AM
Reply to  crank

There are loads of problems with Mazzucco’s film, crank, loads of problems. Firstly, he consults fashion photographers for the section on photography. What a complete joke and scandal. Why not consult moon enthusiasts, people who know about lunar photography and conditions on the moon that affect the photographs. Let’s take the spotlight and fall-off bullshit. First of all, even to a know-nothing like me even if you perceive in certain photos there is something that resembles spotlight and fall-off what about beyond the fall-off – how come beyond the fall-off it doesn’t go even darker – it does in terrestrial photography though. He often quotes respected moon hoax debunker clavius and then tries to debunk him but he seems to somehow miss the debunking that clavius does of his claims. Explanation for seeming evidence of spotlight and fall-off http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/2370/apollo-11-light-fall-off I won’t go into all of the problems but just to… Read more »

S R Passer-by
S R Passer-by
Jul 25, 2019 8:55 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I struggle to believe. The photos are just one reason why.

Imagine having your camera strapped to your chest, and no ability to use the viewfinder. Then add a cumbersome suit with limited movement.

Bloody impressive images considering how difficult it was back then (they did not have point/shoot and post processing).

There are many other reasons to doubt it happened, including shadows of various angles on the lunar surface, the appearance (and condition) of the Landers and the Van Allen belt (no one, before or since Apollo has gone near it).

It doesn’t matter really, the damage was done. The Russians hid the traces of their attempts and the world believed the yanks were demigods.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 9:55 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

“There are many other reasons to doubt it happened, including shadows of various angles on the lunar surface, the appearance (and condition) of the Landers and the Van Allen belt (no one, before or since Apollo has gone near it).”

None of these are actually reasons to doubt the landings, given that these “difficulties” have all been addressed countless times. Here’s a resourceful that provides the scientific (not dogmato-lunatic) take on the moon landings: https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com The tricky part is getting moon landing denying dogmatists to acknowledge the refutations of their lies. You’ve provided only memes, not actual arguments. It’s notable that no actual scientists or engineers actually agree with you. This should worry you, by the way.

S R Passer-by
S R Passer-by
Jul 25, 2019 10:24 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

No one is selling me anything.

http://www.unz.com/article/the-moon-landing-a-giant-hoax-for-mankind/

Plenty in there to make anyone question the narrative. Great publication date too.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:37 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

That’s a joke, right? Unz? Yeah, okay. Let’s also defer to circus clowns from now on for science and engineering.

“Plenty in there to make anyone question the narrative.”

Sure, if you don’t care too much about facts that are readily available from scientific sources and prefer to get your science from charlatans and liars.

“Great publication date too.” Sure, if you’re a white nativist and jingoistic bottom-feeder. Otherwise, not so much.

But hey, maybe I’m wrong. Could you, by any chance, pick out a few items that you find particularly compelling? I just need one or two items for my demonstration (feel free to provide more if you feel the need).

S R Passer-by
S R Passer-by
Jul 25, 2019 11:45 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

“Great publication date too.” Sure, if you’re a white nativist and jingoistic bottom-feeder. Otherwise, not so much.

Guess I need to look at April fools Day with a different perspective from now on…

You seem to like your ad hominems too.

I do not believe man went along with the module on it’s trip to the moon. Can you prove they went?

Comparing the Venera program to Apollo makes an unmanned return trip to the moon look easy.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:32 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

“I do not believe man went along with the module on it’s trip to the moon. Can you prove they went?” Of course I can. It’s getting you corrupt imbeciles to acknowledge the proof which is the hard part. Of course, you could always just inform yourself, but that’s probably not par the for the course for someone like you, because then you’d have to let go of your claim to “being in the know” against the “sheeple”. “Comparing the Venera program to Apollo makes an unmanned return trip to the moon look easy.” Sure, if you know nothing about the life-support requirements of manned space flight, the payload requirements satisfied by the Saturn V, and the various phases of the journey. If you choose ignorance, then lots of things seem “easy” – which is why you’re not any sort of engineer, technician or scientist, and never will be, and… Read more »

S R Passer-by
S R Passer-by
Jul 26, 2019 11:47 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Nothing of what you write proves man went along.

What does a pay load prove? Or stages? Or the amount of sheer grunt required to break free of gravity?

Three men = 225kg approx. Apollo weighed 2,812,272kg (of which 75% was the fuel alone).

Any chance of some proof instead of insults in your next reply please?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 10:39 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

That post wasn’t meant to prove the authenticity of Apollo. It was simply a refutation of your logically fallacious claim about Venera and Apollo. “Any chance of some proof instead of insults in your next reply please?” Any chance that you’ll actually acknowledge the proof instead of pretending that it doesn’t exist whenever it’s presented? What sort of proof would you qualify as such? Moon rocks analyzed and verified by geologists? Countless scientific papers have been written about those. A search in a scientific database or on Google Scholar will reveal these papers, many of which you can download and read for free. You can also refer to the abundant documentation on NASA’s own free to use website, where many documents pertaining to flight dynamics, audio logs, telemetry, equipment manuals, and test results can be found. There you’ll also find all the photos taken during the missions, as well as… Read more »

vexarb
vexarb
Jul 25, 2019 12:53 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

FN, though I upvoted all your posts (including this one) I think you may have been unjust to Ron Unz (easily done because Unz is a complex character). This is his editorial comment BTL:

“Ron Unz says:
April 1, 2019 at 3:46 am GMT • 900 Words

Well, I’d never even known that Moon Hoax theories existed until a year or two ago, and my initial impression was that they seemed totally ridiculous. Now after reading this lengthy exposition of the material, my current view is that…they still seem just as totally ridiculous.
… Aside from that sort of loose speculation, there seems essentially zero solid evidence supporting a Moon Hoax.”

And Lady Bracknell adds: “The truth is rarely pure, and never simple.”

vexarb
vexarb
Jul 25, 2019 1:28 PM
Reply to  vexarb

@FN. Correction: I have just now downvoted this one:

“I do indeed think that many people who assert that 9/11 was a false flag/inside job are imbeciles, not because it would be beyond the capabilities or cynicism of the US government …. For example, they keep repeating the meme “Oh, so you think that that the steel beams melted?” while not realizing that the beams would not have had to melt, but to have simply weakened in order of the buildings to collapse.”

Compartmentalized science: you know a lot about the Moon Landing but might benefit from a supplementary course on Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth”.

Regards, V

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 26, 2019 7:29 AM
Reply to  vexarb

Nice to see you back, vexarb. FN said yesterday he will consult my webpage on staged events and he hasn’t come back yet to debunk anything 🙂

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:25 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I haven’t started reading your website with any real attention just yet.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:24 AM
Reply to  vexarb

I didn’t say that there might not be a 9/11 conspiracy by the government, or that professionals don’t ever succumb to group-think and dogmatism; I’m saying that many people (not necessarily most or even a majority, but many) who partake in 9/11 “trutherism” are imbeciles because their arguments are piss-poor and they DON’T CARE. A lot of them, like moon landing deniers, use a sort of shot-gun approach to truth: they fire off a bunch of arguments which “sound” scientific, and hope that they’ll land a hit. If all of the arguments from a salvo are refuted, they just re-load with some more that they’ve picked up from their “sources” and fire another shot. In reality, they hope that through the sheer number of “arguments” out there, their opponents will be worn out and give up, thus “confirming” that the 9/11 conspiracy is “true”. This is similar to what the… Read more »

vexarb
vexarb
Jul 26, 2019 1:26 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

FN, I fear your reply is long on rhetoric but short on the very “rules of scientific rigor” which you deployed so ably in debunking the debunkers of the Moon Landing. But when you have taken a course on Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth you will be able to Fight Nonsense like this: ” the beams would not have had to melt, but to have simply weakened in order of the buildings to collapse.” I feel sure (knowing your respect for “the rules of scientific rigor”) that you will Fight the Bendy Beams Nonsense all the more vigorously because you yourself fell for it (before reading up on Architects and Engineers). I know I believed in Bendy Beams before being recommended to study A&E for 911 Truth, around 2011. Just imagine: for 10 years I was blithely believing the Official 911 Report on Bendy Beams — and I used… Read more »

Figth nonsense
Figth nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:43 PM
Reply to  vexarb

I don’t feel that it’s helpful to allow ourselves to veer too far afield from the moon landings. After all, That’s what this article is about.

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 1:52 PM
Reply to  vexarb

1) Please point me to where FN ever employs scientific rigour or anything beyond mere assertion backed up with abuse.

2) The ‘rules of scientific rigour’ clearly require the one making the extraordinary claim to provide the proof. This has manifestly not been done by NASA or anyone else.

We ought to have proof positive of the Apollo moon landings, but we don’t. This is a problem for any objective analyst

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 10:25 AM
Reply to  MLS

“We ought to have proof positive of the Apollo moon landings, but we don’t.” An interesting take from someone who doesn’t know that the Apollo 16 mission carried a telescope that was placed on the moon, and that Hubble Space Telescope resides not in HEO but in LEO. “The ‘rules of scientific rigour’ clearly require the one making the extraordinary claim to provide the proof. This has manifestly not been done by NASA or anyone else.” Sure, if you dogmatically ignore the endless documentation provided for free on NASA’s own website and ignore all the scientific papers published by geologists in scientific journals analyzing the returned lunar rocks. What did you have in mind by way of “proof”, though? Perhaps you’re using the word in an unconventional way? Please be more scientifically rigorous next time. Hopefully you won’t make these sorts of sophomoric mistakes again. They could have been easily… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:16 AM
Reply to  vexarb

Thanks.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 26, 2019 1:41 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Ron Unz studied physics at Cambridge and Stanford. He regards the moon landing as an open question and, like everyone who’s interested in the subject, is waiting for a qualified team, like the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, to do a thorough investigation.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:15 AM

He “regards it as an open question” because he wants your money. He plays on your piss-poor knowledge of Apollo and spoon-feeds you “doubts about Apollo’s authenticity.” Please stop being someone who he can bank on.

“waiting for a qualified team…to do a thorough investigation.

You’re saying that the Soviet scientific establishment wasn’t qualified? According to people like you, they were “way ahead” of the US space program at the time. It’s also a matter of simple historical record that they fully affirmed the authenticity of Apollo and its missions. I mention this because you haven’t gotten a single thing right so far.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 9:57 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

“Van Allen belt (no one, before or since Apollo has gone near it).”

If these are the sorts of “arguments” that are offered to you as “proofs” that the moon landings were faked, then I would strongly suggest trying to get your money back from the charlatans selling you this story.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:31 AM
Reply to  Editor

It is indeed true, but it’s also irrelevant, as I explained. The reason people haven’t been back to the moon is budgetary and political.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 1:16 PM
Reply to  Editor

It may be but it doesn’t serve as evidence we didn’t go. The evidence is, in fact, overwhelming that astronauts did go. My goodness! There is such abundant evidence and all people can do is come up with unconnected, seeming anomalies that do not stand up to scrutiny and which, in many cases, only serve to reinforce the “we went” hypothesis. Lunar conditions are so essentially different from those on earth – they simply cannot be faked and no one has ever duplicated the supposed fakery. Why not duplicate the alleged fakery to show that it was, indeed, faked? All the millions of moon hoaxers why don’t they set up a kickstarter campaign and re-create the moon landings exactly as they were originally faked … using the technology available then, LOL?

MrChops
MrChops
Jul 25, 2019 3:49 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Sorry OfG for double posting this. My previous post was at the bottom of the thread . Since you have two serial posters dominating the discussion allow me this indulgence to challenge the ‘overwhelming’ evidence………..

Jarrah White and his Moonfaker series is an excellent source of information should one be interested in challenging science with science.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:08 AM
Reply to  MrChops

How do you know it’s an “excellent source of information”? Because it comfort-confirms your dogmato-lunatic B.S.? Note that this guy doesn’t work in the sciences. He’s a YouTube “film maker”. The fact that ALL your sources are of this type should worry you.

MrChops
MrChops
Jul 26, 2019 4:33 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Nonsense shoots from the hip once again………….

A simple lookup of his YouTube channel would have revealed he has just this year completed a Bsc minor in astrophysics.

Anyways it matters not the qualities of the person but the quality of the argument to which you offer nothing but ad hominem bile.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 10:13 AM
Reply to  MrChops

How have you verified the qualify of this arguments? Have you fact-checked them? If so, what scientific resource did you use? And how do you account for the fact that thousands upon thousands of PhDs, post-docs and professional scientists who have actually worked in the field for years or even decades, many specializing in astrophysics, planetary science, or extraterrestrial geology all affirm the authenticity of Apollo? Note also what I said: that he doesn’t WORK in the sciences. Having a BSc minoring in astrophysics doesn’t mean he’s done any original research. Why should his degree be impressive to me, anyway? Many of his claims don’t even deal with astrophysics as such, like his claims about what what von Braun supposedly did in Antarctica (supposedly “collecting meteorites” – which he actually didn’t, as can be seen by the lack of entries for von Braun or the group he was with in… Read more »

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 1:09 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

You can duplicate everything you see in any Moon footage by simply speeding up the frame rate of the film.

I don’t say that means the footage is faked.But simple truth is – there is NO proof the Apollo missions were not faked. I wish there was, but there isn’t.

Figth nonsense
Figth nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 2:06 PM
Reply to  MLS

“You can duplicate everything you see in any Moon footage by simply speeding up the frame rate of the film.” Patently false, of course. When you speed up the footage, the movement of the astronauts suddenly looks jerky and unnatural, exactly how a human WOULDN’T move. The only smooth, natural looking motion is when the frame rate is kept at the presented frame rate. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU0Rgpdujzo (look especially at the astronaut who has to push himself up because he tripped over. Speed up this footage to see a perfect example of something that refutes what you’re claiming) “I don’t say that means the footage is faked.But simple truth is – there is NO proof the Apollo missions were not faked. I wish there was, but there isn’t.” There’s reams of proof that t wasn’t fake. You can start right here, with numerous examples of proof from third-party (i.e non-US) sources:… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 27, 2019 2:11 PM
Reply to  MLS

No MLS, it’s for YOU to PROVE that the missions were faked.

If you live in an alternate reality then it’s not the responsibility of normal people who have to prove to YOU that they are living in the normal world.

You display the height of arrogance, ignorance and crossing over into delusion.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 6:11 AM
Reply to  Editor

It appears that two of my responses – one to MLS refuting his claims about the Hubble Space Telescope and the notion that no telescopes were ever used on the moon by any of the Apollo missions, and the other comment addressing a user claiming that all blueprints, telemetry and technology from Apollo have been “destroyed” – have been censored. In both responses, I provided sources, facts and documentation. I hope that censoring posts that fulfill what you yourself requested of me isn’t you idea of an obligation to the truth. “Surely you agree that taking the unsupported word of government agencies for anything is not rational or wise.” A straw-man argument. MLS is claiming that there is “no evidence” that the Apollo missions were not faked. This is demonstrably untrue, and in no way relies upon “trusting” the US government. So what’s with this nonsense about “the unsupported word… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:04 AM
Reply to  Editor

“They haven’t even ventured into high earth orbit either before or since the Apollo missions. ”

Why WOULD they? Can you tell us what the actual value of this would be?

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 1:07 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Why would they send humans into high earth orbit if they could?

Seriously?

They would send humans into HEO if they could for the same reasons they send the Hubble into HEO. Unparalleled views into deep space.

Same reason you would think the would have sent a decent telescope to the Moon on at least one of the Apollo missions. The images of our galaxy such a telescope could have picked up would be unrivalled to this day. The information we could have garnered would be incalculable

Why didn’t they do that?

Wish I could think of a good reason

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 6:02 AM
Reply to  MLS

The Hubble Space Telescope is in LEO, not HEO. Where did you get the idea that it’s in HEO? Astronauts have been to the Hubble multiple times to make repairs and conduct maintenance.

“Same reason you would think the would have sent a decent telescope to the Moon on at least one of the Apollo missions. ”

They did have a telescope: on Apollo 16, a telescope called the Ultraviolet Camera/Spectrograph was set up on the surface of the moon.

“The images of our galaxy such a telescope could have picked up would be unrivalled to this day. ”

Not so. At the time, a visible light spectrum telescope on the moon would not have been better than the Earth-base ones, due to the size-constraints on such a telescope. And they certainly wouldn’t have provided a view of the universe superior to the Hubble.

crank
crank
Jul 25, 2019 12:41 PM
Reply to  Editor

It has to be conceded that (a) there was extensive lilterature about the expected dangers of flying out of low Earth orbit, including through the VABs; (b) that this technical/ biological problem was basically disregarded as the Apollo program progressed, and that there is next to no mention of it in the NASA literature around the moonshots; (c) with the initial testing of space flight on mammals including primates, it is simply unbelievable that lunar probes containing living specimens were not sent round the moon before Apollo 11 allegedly flew out there : to the best of my limited knowledge, the A11 crew were not just the first humans to venture out beyond low earth orbit, they were the first living organisms of any kind, and, the 12 Apollo astronaughts are the only living organisms to have been sent above a few hundred miles.
https://www.space.com/nasa-deep-space-radiation-mission-biosentinel.html

crank
crank
Jul 25, 2019 12:47 PM
Reply to  crank

to the best of my limited knowledge, the A11 crew were not just the first humans to venture out beyond low earth orbit, they were the first living organisms of any kind,
-should read ‘Apollo 8’ which we are told was the first circumlunar flight.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 29, 2019 11:45 PM
Reply to  crank

Learn about the Soviet Zond 5 mission’s biological cargo. China has landed a probe on the moon with plants in it; that kind of puts another dent in your notion that nothing living can go through the belts.

A repeat reminder: no actual scientist agrees with you. The science you’re using must be from a textbook with entire pages missing.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:02 AM
Reply to  crank

“it is simply unbelievable that lunar probes containing living specimens were not sent round the moon before Apollo 11 allegedly flew out there”

Actually, they were, but keep believing in B.S. comfort-fed to you by your corrupt tax-driver film makers.

binra
binra
Jul 25, 2019 11:17 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

It isn’t either or – but both AND… The PR or marketing of image is at the fore and so it cant be allowed to fail. The studio work doesn’t prove everything is staged. At another level we may see that Everything is staged – but if we give power of mind to Others or to circumstances, we use them as a proxy for our own story or ‘staging our scene’. The Big Lie is the politics of audacity to the capacity to get away with it. But once you accept what such ‘power’ gives as your own, where is your way out? Only yielding up or releasing what you took to be your ‘own’ at cost of a truth you did not and could not make. But thought to replace. Truth is beyond our capacity to make, and so cannot in truth be unmade – but our true awareness… Read more »

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Jul 26, 2019 10:44 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Bloody hell, Flaxgirl finally talking common sense! Whoopee!

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 27, 2019 12:59 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Common – but quite possibly mistaken in this case, even so…

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 5:31 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

I realised that common sense was not so common before I woke up to 9/11. I always use the same method, Frank Speaker, whether I’m judging 9/11 or the moon landings and I always ensure that all the evidence can fit my chosen hypothesis and that there is no convincing evidence supporting any other hypothesis – it’s true my understanding is not great enough to claim a good understanding of the moon landings but as so very many of the alleged anomalies are easily explained and as so much of the masses of evidence presented has not been debunked I think that, on balance, one has to choose the “real” hypothesis. When someone explains how the hours upon hours of audio was faked I’ll perk up and really start to look carefully. Also, I think sunlight reflected on the moon with a black sky is very, very difficult to fake… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 7:40 AM
Reply to  crank

These “documentary film makers” are a joke and not taken seriously by anyone even remotely knowledgeable about the moon landings.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 10:30 AM
Reply to  crank

This interview with Massimo Mazzucco is also illuminating. Amongst other things, he says he’s absolutely convinced that the pictures were faked, and he tells why in detail (he’s a long-time professional film photographer). His overall guess of what went wrong is persuasive:

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:33 AM

I’m so, so sorry that you still believe this garbage by this fraudulent charlatan who isn’t taken seriously by anyone in the sciences 🙁 How old are you again?

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 25, 2019 4:41 AM

“It is commonly believed that man will fly directly from the earth to the moon, but to do this, we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility. It would have to develop sufficient speed to penetrate the atmosphere and overcome the earth’s gravity and, having traveled all the way to the moon, it must still have enough fuel to land safely and make the return trip to earth. Furthermore, in order to give the expedition a margin of safety, we would not use one ship alone, but a minimum of three … each rocket ship would be taller than New York’s Empire State Building [almost ¼ mile high] and weigh about ten times the tonnage of the Queen Mary, or some 800,000 tons.”—Wernher von Braun, Conquest of the Moon. Of course, as we now know, Von Braun was wrong. Tt turned out… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 5:56 AM

Godfree, while the evidence shows astronauts landed on the moon it also clearly shows the Challenger disaster was a hoax – and a laughable one at that – although we might say they’re all laughable when you blow away the magic propaganda dust. https://youtu.be/LihPQvIgx70 The Challenger people are all still very much alive and kicking and in public view unlike most dead “crisis actors”. When you look at the professions of most of the Challenger people they are completely unrelated to space travel. You don’t send lay people into space. Your argument against the moon landings falls into the logical fallacy, argumentum ad speculum, where you speculate about the proof of something according to seemingly evidentiary facts which are not in fact evidentiary. There is masses and masses of purported evidence showing we went to the moon and people keep trying to poke holes in it – without success. You… Read more »

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 25, 2019 6:11 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I am in no position to argue against the moon landing, nor did I do so.

I, along with Dr. von Braun, simply raised questions about its feasibility.

I did so after spending three years researching the Evil China hypothesis, and finding it to be an elaborate conspiracy which, to date, has cost taxpayers $100 billion and is entirely without foundation.

So, when I paused from my labors and found Wagging the Moondoggie, I was primed to at least probe further.

Since then, I have raised the questions above and have yet to see one of them answered satisfactorily.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 7:42 AM

The von Braun quote has now been “answered”, however, whether your questions are answered satisfactorily or not they are not relevant to proof of whether we went or not. That needs to be decided according to the evidence presented that we went – and so far, I’ve seen no satisfactory debunking of it.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 7:52 AM

“I am in no position to argue against the moon landing, nor did I do so.” You literally presented a bunch of falsehoods purporting to show that the moon landings were faked. So I suppose, in fact, that you’re correct in saying that you’re in “no position to argue against the moon landings”. It’s because you don’t use real arguments, only easily refutable memes. “I, along with Dr. von Braun, simply raised questions about its feasibility.” And you, unlike Dr von Braun, failed miserably to adjust your questions in light of new insights. Quote mining is the preserve of charlatans, not of people trying to get at the truth. “I did so after spending three years researching the Evil China hypothesis, and finding it to be an elaborate conspiracy which, to date, has cost taxpayers $100 billion and is entirely without foundation.” But you didn’t actually bother spending any of… Read more »

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 25, 2019 8:35 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I notice that you avoided answering any of them, however.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:26 AM

The you must have some sort of weird dementia, because I answered literally every one of your questions. If you choose to play dumb to cling to your dogmas, that can’t be laid at my door. It will mean, however, that you ‘re going to look incredibly stupid and incredible dishonest. Your dishonesty is becoming quite pathetic and disgusting, quite frankly. It’s no wonder that you’ve never been permitted to work in the sciences.

hotrod31
hotrod31
Jul 25, 2019 7:07 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

The USA has never been able to build a successful ‘rocket engine’ reliable enough for the purposes of safe reliable space travel. They have secretly purchased RUSSIAN made ones. These facts can be verified by anyone interested enough …

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 7:43 AM
Reply to  hotrod31

“The USA has never been able to build a successful ‘rocket engine’ reliable enough for the purposes of safe reliable space travel.”

The Saturn V’s F1 engines would like to have a word with your ignorance.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:22 AM
Reply to  Editor

Because Skylab had been retired, the Soviet-American “handshake in space had been accomplished”, and the Space Shuttle system was the new heavy launch vehicle. Also, it’s hard to maintain that NASA lacks the vision for serious space exploration when they are currently building a heavy launch vehicle to rival the Saturn V.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:07 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Edit: the Soviet-American “handshake in space” had been accomplished…

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 7:45 AM
Reply to  hotrod31

And you link is where, hotrod?

Here’s a video on the Saturn V rocket – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o39UlJlMce8

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 7:42 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

“The Challenger people are all still very much alive and kicking and in public view unlike most dead “crisis actors”.”

Wow, you really are this pathetic, aren’t you?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 7:48 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight nonsense, as a person who claims to be evidence-based you really are not acting like one. You must consult the evidence. I gave you the video link – you looked at the Russian one didn’t you, but shun this one because, a priori, it doesn’t fit into your paradigm of how the world works. Please look at the evidence.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 9:14 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

“Please look at the evidence.” You serious, FG?! This is human ‘gonna-believe-what-I-wanna-believe (and I wanna-believe what my trust’n’comfort-figures have told me)’ psychology we’re dealing with here. Good luck with evidence promotion in such dissections; usually right at the back of the chop-logic ‘arguments’ queue.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:05 AM

You haven’t refuted a single thing I’ve said with any science. I’m still waiting, guys. You prefer to wallow in the trust’n’comfort narratives sold to you by corrupt taxi-driver “documentary film makers” who assure you that you’re “in the known”, because you see science and engineering as “out of touch”, or something. I guess actual engineers and scientists are too ignorant to talk anything other than nonsense, and should henceforth consult with anonymous trolls like you about orbital dynamics, life support systems and docking procedures on space craft. Hmmm?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:19 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

The stupid “The Challenger people are still alive” is imbecilic not only from an empirical standpoint, but a logical one as well. It’s also deeply immoral and disgusting, and insulting to the families who lost their loved ones. You’re basically a slandering sociopath.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 10:36 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

You do a fantastic job on the moon landings, Fight nonsense, but unfortunately you’re a victim of the taboos around death preventing you from being open to the truth … being a victim of the taboos around death is precisely what the power elite rely on to control is. People died! People died! How dare you! I’m happy to discuss if you can overcome your enslavement to the taboos around death, Fight nonsense, but there’s really nowhere to go when you refuse to consult the evidence. EVIDENCE IS KING!

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:39 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I’ll look at you “evidence”.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 26, 2019 7:42 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Don’t bother to try to get nonsense to talk sense. S/he’s clearly not up to it; not on this matter, anyway. Just lean back and watch the hilarious comedy of his/her spittle-flecked, JimmyRandian attempt to prove that black is white, and 2+2=5 – just because s/he reelly, reelly wants them to be.

Laff? I got a ring-side seat! Come on nonsense: more foaming hysteria, to make us piss ourselves at your antics. Never let mere namby-pamby open-minded scepticism – the central principle of the classic scientific method – get in the way of a great foaming, super-gratifying prejudice-wank! Go nonsense, go! More foam! LOLOLOL! 🙂

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 9:08 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Done by Dmitry Orlov, FG. See link in my post above.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 12:53 PM

Orlov’s attempt was pitiful. He made at least three sophomoric mistakes which should cause you to disown anything that comes out of his mouth. I picked out those mistakes by casually glancing at what he wrote. His method seems to be to fire off as many lies as possible, in the hope that his opponent will become tired and give up. Won’t work.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 7:08 AM

““It is commonly believed that man will fly directly from the earth to the moon, but to do this, we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility. It would have to develop sufficient speed to penetrate the atmosphere and overcome the earth’s gravity and, having traveled all the way to the moon, it must still have enough fuel to land safely and make the return trip to earth. Furthermore, in order to give the expedition a margin of safety, we would not use one ship alone, but a minimum of three … each rocket ship would be taller than New York’s Empire State Building [almost ¼ mile high] and weigh about ten times the tonnage of the Queen Mary, or some 800,000 tons.”—Wernher von Braun, Conquest of the Moon. “Of course, as we now know, Von Braun was wrong” YES – and… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 7:39 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Good refutation, Fight nonsense. The staging included a shuttle to detach from the mothership (Lunar Orbit Rendezvous) initiated by the engineer, John Houbolt, an idea which was initially met with great hostility. Fortunately, von Braun, initially against it himself, finally saw its necessity – you can just imagine how many others in charge might resent an upstart’s new idea and quash it. While von Braun is treated as a criminal Nazi (and maybe he was I really do not know) my gleanings (which I emphasize are just gleanings) suggest to me that it was his passion, charisma and ability to get everyone on board to the moon so to speak that had a lot to do with the success of the Apollo program.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 25, 2019 8:32 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Stages? The moon lander, the penultimate stage, would have had to carry enough fuel to land and take off with healthy safety margins; enough oxygen to maintain two men for days with a safety margin; enough water, ditto; enough batteries to power all systems, ditto; two space suits and backpacks and at least one backup; a powerful engine; a moon rover and God knows what else. Packed into 235 cubic feet (exterior measurements), weighing 36,200 pounds. And it all would have to work perfectly–including an in-space rendezvous–the first time, with no backup or Plan B. The guys in it were test pilots who would never, in their wildest dreams take a bran new, untested aircraft into the wild blue yonder.Given the decades of effort, care and expertise it has taken to bring the V-22 Osprey to flightworthiness, I find the moon landing story improbable. The fact that we are still… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:15 AM

“The moon lander, the penultimate stage, would have had to carry enough fuel to land and take off with healthy safety margins;” Which it did. The reason Armstrong was close to having to abort the descent was because he flew near a crater and boulder field and ha to overshoot the original designated landing zone. But I suppose this was also “faked.” “enough oxygen to maintain two men for days with a safety margin; enough water, ditto; enough batteries to power all systems, ditto; two space suits and backpacks and at least one backup; a powerful engine; a moon rover and God knows what else.” All satisfied. I love how you ignore that the moon rover, on the moon, only weighed 35 kg, that the moon lacks an atmosphere and so the lander would not be subject to aerodynamic forces, and that the moon’s gravity is one-sixth that of the… Read more »

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 25, 2019 11:56 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Thank you for taking so much time to respond, but it would require more technical knowledge, real NASA specs, and scientific proofs (not exhaustive or detailed, but approximate and authoritative) to show that the feat was comfortably within the parameters of the possible. Where and how, for example, did NASA install a top-of-the-line heating and cooling system (several of them, actually, because Moon daytime highs average +260° F and nights drop an average of -280° F, and it’s pretty much one or the other. If you’re in the sun, you’re going to be boiled alive, and if you’re out of the sun, you’re going to be flash frozen. Unless, as I say, you have immensely powerful A/Cs and heaters and, of course, more than enough electricity to power them round the clock. It would help if the Lander was heavily insulated in some manner, but that doesn’t appear to be… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 12:49 PM

“Where and how, for example, did NASA install a top-of-the-line heating and cooling system (several of them, actually, because Moon daytime highs average +260° F and nights drop an average of -280° F, and it’s pretty much one or the other.” I guess you didn’t know that know they landed shortly after sunrise on that part of the moon, and that the temperature variation wasn’t this great? I guess you’re also ignorant of the thermal properties of vacuum and don’t know that what you’re referring to is SURFACE temperature, which would have to be radiated through direct contact with the landers and astronauts and over a substantial amount of time for them to experience these temperature extremes? Here, educate yourself: “Wouldn’t the camera films have melted or frozen on the Moon? IN A NUTSHELL: No. Temperature extremes refer to the lunar surface, from which the films were insulated by vacuum.… Read more »

Refraktor
Refraktor
Jul 26, 2019 1:29 AM

I often wonder how how they would have cooled these astronauts. The surface of the moon is above the boiling point of water. There is no question of exchanging heat with the atmosphere for there is no atmosphere. So refrigeration would not work. Then there is the gamma radiation to consider. The moon is the greatest emitter of gamma in the solar system. The comparatively small amount of gamma radiation (small in relation to the moon huge by normal standards) in the Fukushima reactor instantly destroys robot probes seeking the fuel rods. The moon would be instantly lethal to humans.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 12:27 PM
Reply to  Refraktor

“I often wonder how how they would have cooled these astronauts.” Ahh, so you HAVEN’T EVEN BOTHERED punching this into a Google search. If you had, you would have discovered, within seconds, that the astronaut’s suits used an elaborate system of cooling veins that pumped fluid over the astronaut’s bodies to absorb heat. Oh, and by the way: are you saying that space walks are also fake? Because that would follow from your “skepticism” about being able to cool the Apollo astronauts. Astronauts that conduct extra-vehicular actives are exposed to the vacuum of space, whether in low Earth orbit or on the moon. So I guess that the Russia, the United States and now China are all in on this fakery. “The surface of the moon is above the boiling point of water.” Errr…the SURFACE of the moon gets that hot from absorption of infrared radiation. Something exposed to infrared… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 7:31 AM

“Apollo sent 12 men 240,000 miles to the Moon and back, yet after the last mission in 1972, no other human being has ever travelled more than 400 miles above the surface of the Earth.” Yes, and do you know about this thing called the Space Shuttle? Variants of it flew many times, carrying many people into low Earth orbit, and it’s now been decommissioned. The US currently has to rely on Russia to get its astronauts to the International Space Station. So I suppose that, using your logic, the Space Shuttle launches were also “fake”? If something is cancelled or decommissioned, it becomes “fake”. Hmmm… And, again, you don’t bother providing a reason why the US might have stopped sending men to the moon. You ignore the political expediency of continuing to do so in a budgetary climate that involved the Vietnam War, the fact that the US had… Read more »

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 8:28 AM

Try this Dmitry Orlov piece for a sober – and not particularly judgemental – analysis of why the whole Moon landings programme seems exceedingly unlikely to have happened in reality as claimed by the current official meme. Dmitry promotes no final conclusion about whether there was fakery; just points out the virtually-conclusive extreme unlikeliness of the official story (plus the obvious bloody nonsense of the Skripal hoax, and the conclusive evidence that 11/9 was a false-flag; together with equally well-founded scepticism about the Boston Marathon official meme; terminal scepticism about ALL official memes being in sober fact the only sound standpoint…):

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/07/highly-unlikely-conspiracies.html

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 8:53 AM

PS: I recommend highly Dmitry’s strategy for dealing with the realism-debunkers’ endless demands to provide alternative explanations to the questioned official memes, which speculative alternatives they can then tear apart in great scoffing-fests – frequently evidence and logic light, very noticeably.

Instead, stand pat on the rock-solid, sheer statistical unlikeliness of the official fairy tales, and insist unbudgingly that if the debunkers want real alternative explanations, then they can ferret them out for themselves. The sceptic’s job is only to point out what simply couldn’t have happened, using well-tested principles of physics and probability mathematics (things like the total, controlled-demolition-style collapses in the WTC of three steel-frame buildings designed to withstand much heavier stresses, these THREE TOTAL collapses being triggered – allegedly – by just two plane impacts. Yeah, right!).

This meticulous sticking to provable impossibilities sorts out a lot of popular damn-fool false memes decisively.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 26, 2019 6:33 AM

Rhisiart, I skimmed through Dmitry Orlov’s calculation that the moon landings were exceedingly unlikely to have happened and the very first claim he makes fails the test. The dust on the moon is “red”? Where did he get that? Considerations of likelihood should only be taken into consideration when you don’t have a significant amount of purported evidence to deal with. There is loads and loads of purported evidence and I cannot see any great pokings of holes in it. While there might be a seeming anomaly here and there so very, very many alleged anomalies have been debunked. If they lost really important tapes, yes, we might wonder why that is but we still have all that purported evidence to deal with. Do people seriously think that all the hours and hours of conversation by the astronauts and ground control are faked? How on earth would you fake that?… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 26, 2019 6:43 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Oops! Take it back, it is a convincing punch. I guess I was going too far down the rabbit hole there. Still think that Bill Kaysing was a CIA agent though.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:47 AM

Straight off the bat, Orlov makes fraudulent claims about the thermal properties of vacuum, about the “fossilized wood” “given” by “NASA” (NASA didn’t give anyone fossilized wood; the “sample” in question was never presented by NASA), and that “none” of the Apollo astronauts swore on the Bible (several of them did). Just another fraud taking advantage of your gullibility. How boringly perfectible.

mark
mark
Jul 29, 2019 3:51 AM
Reply to  Editor

Don’t be too hard on the poor guy.
He’s getting very triggered.
And providing a lot of people with some innocent fun in the process.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 10:51 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

On the “fossilized wood” that Orlov claims was presented by NASA astronauts:

https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/98-how-come-moon-rock-donated-to.html

On the “none of the astronauts swore on the Bible” claim:

“https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/94-how-come-lunar-astronauts-wont-face.html

On Orlov’s claims about temperature differences on the moon and what they would mean for the survivability of the astronauts and the functioning of equipment:

https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/88-isnt-it-impossible-to-cool-astronaut.html

https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/717-how-could-fragile-lm-withstand.html

https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/81-wouldnt-camera-films-have-melted-on.html

Using basic scientific principles and known laws of nature, refuting Orlov is child’s play. I can summarize what these articles I’m linking are saying if anyone wants me to.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:27 AM

Hmmm, I noticed that you didn’t actually refute anything I said. Curious. Are you implying that Godfree’s claims were all bunk and that he should look elsewhere (e.g. at Orlov’s piece) for the “real deal”? “Try this Dmitry Orlov piece for a sober – and not particularly judgemental – analysis of why the whole Moon landings programme seems exceedingly unlikely to have happened in reality as claimed by the current official meme” The “official meme” – backed and verified by all the world’s universities, scientific establishments and institutions, astronomers, aerospace engineers, and national space programs. I’m going to have to decline the offer to join the ranks of stupidly name YouTube fake account trolls and corrupt taxi-drivers and instead stick with the people whose job it is to design and build spaceships. Sorry, but really, you don’t get to denigrate a whole body of scientific knowledge as something akin to… Read more »

mark
mark
Jul 26, 2019 4:43 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

The reason the moon landings were faked is that the moon doesn’t actually exist. It is just a hologram. In fact, we are all holograms. This has been proven conclusively by the Quantum scientists.

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 26, 2019 1:57 AM

Here’s a quote from Dmitri: “First, there are multiple signs of forgery. There are multiple indications that the official Lunar landing photographs were shot in a studio. In all of the photos lunar dust the wrong color: flat gray instead of reddish. Quite plausibly, the studio simulated the cratered lunar surface by filling it with Portland cement and throwing rocks and pebbles at it. Shadows don’t run parallel but converge to a point, indicating that the source of the illumination was a studio light rather than sunlight. The claim that the photos were shot on the Moon using a film camera is implausible because temperatures on the lunar surface are too cold for film to work at all in the shadow and hot enough to melt the film in sunlight with nothing in between. In any case, since the Moon lies outside the Van Allen belts, solar and interstellar radiation… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 11:43 AM

“The claim that the photos were shot on the Moon using a film camera is implausible because temperatures on the lunar surface are too cold for film to work at all in the shadow and hot enough to melt the film in sunlight with nothing in between.” Aaaaaaan BOOM: there goes his credibility. If this charlatan actually knew anything about the thermal properties of vacuum, he’d know that vacuum is a POOR CONDUCTOR of heat. The cameras would have to be in direct contact with the ground to be signification affected by temperature extremes. He seems not to know that they landed shortly after sunrise on that part of the moon, not nearly enough time for the surface to reach anywhere close to its maximum temperature. “The astronauts, when asked to swear on a Bible on camera that they have been to the moon, reacted rather strangely and refused. ”… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 3:47 AM

To help preempt much of the inevitable ignorance purporting to “disprove” the moon landings, here are some retorts in advance: – Reasons why NASA stopped going to the moon: They haven’t. There are NASA orbiters currently studying the moon. But it’s true that no humans have gone back since 1972. Why is this? The reasons are mundane and easily verified: 1) waning public interest, especially after Apollo 13’s near disaster. Missions planned beyond Apollo 17 (18, 19 & 20) were cancelled. NASA wanted to continue with these missions, but Congress and the White House did not; 2) the political expediency of continued manned lunar exploration was not what it has been in the 60s. The Soviets had been beaten, and many in the government questioned the utility of continuing to spend many billions on Apollo when there was pressure to use that money elsewhere. The costs of the Vietnam War… Read more »

mark
mark
Jul 25, 2019 4:37 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I don’t blame people for doubting this, though I’ve spoken to engineers who worked on the project.
People realise they have been lied to so often that a safe default position is to automatically disbelieve any official narrative.
Do that and you can’t go far wrong.
And don’t believe anything until it has been officially denied.
If a government agency or the MSM say it’s snowing at the North Pole, you shouldn’t accept that unless you’ve been there yourself to verify it.
If you lie to me a thousand times, it is reasonable and justifiable to assume you are doing the same on occasion No. 1,001.

mark
mark
Jul 25, 2019 4:52 AM
Reply to  mark

And “a conspiracy on this sale would be complex, prone to exposure” etc. Not necessarily. Let me give you 2 examples. I’ll ignore another obvious one, 9/11. 1. The atomic bomb project. This involved hundreds of thousands of people. New towns and new power stations and radically new fully automated factories were constructed to complete the project. But apart from a very tiny handful of people, the first anyone knew about its existence was in 1945 when there was a loud bang above a Japanese city. 2. The Enigma codebreaking project. This involved thousands of people from all walks of life, many of them of an eccentric and bohemian character. The world’s first computer was constructed to make it a possibility. At the end of the war, these people were sworn to secrecy and the computer, records and equipment were destroyed. The powers that be thought they might have to… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 6:24 AM
Reply to  mark

“1. The atomic bomb project.” This is a very poor example, because the goal of the project was not made public while the project was underway. People involved in it were told “Don’t talk about this to anyone. This is a secret program, not something for you to blab about to your local newspaper.” Apollo, on the other hand, was a publicly acknowledged program with a publicly known goal, and was discussed, debated and scrutinized in public media. “2. The Enigma codebreaking project.” Same thing. You’ve only provided examples of concealment of programs, not of attempts at faking the goal of an entire program from the people most intimately involved in that program. There’s a vast difference between keeping a program’s existence under wraps form the public (keeping everyone involved quiet with relation to the outside world by telling them “Don’t discuss this with your wife”), and keeping the goal… Read more »

S R Passer-by
S R Passer-by
Jul 25, 2019 9:09 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

How about the military having units dedicated to deception?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army

There’s many military examples of deception, and the key thing to remember was this was the cold war. It was about beating the commies. And we have been taught by America repeatedly that it _will_ lie, cheat steal and trick to achieve its aims.

Anthrax, bay of pigs, Kuwait etc etc etc

Apollo achieved its aim. Beating the Soviets

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:30 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

Yes, the military has units dedicated to deception. Where’s your evidence that they were even remotely involved with Apollo? You won’t be able to present any evidence because it doesn’t exist. But I’m sure you’ll be able to weave some story using circular logic to “prove” that this is what happened.

“Apollo achieved its aim. Beating the Soviets” That’s right, by going to the moon and having it verified by Soviet science.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 11:46 AM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

That guy is a clown and an opportunist rat, not a scientist. He loves the resurgence of stupidity in American society, because it makes him feel that he can use it as a wedge to make the US less of a scientific and technological competitor to Russia. It’s very disgusting, though, partly because he’s dragging his own country through the mud and spitting on the legacy and competence of the Soviet space program by implying that Soviet scientists and engineers were TOO STUPID to be able to see through the “hoax”. And like the slave that you are, you lap it up. Did he present any actual evidence that Apollo was fake Yeah, exactly: he didn’t. He doesn’t himself believe a word of this hoax garbage; (just like Putin doesn’t believe a word of the Christian Orthodox rhetoric he spouts); he just knows that people like you do and that… Read more »

S R Passer-by
S R Passer-by
Jul 25, 2019 11:49 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

he just knows that people like you do

You know me this well? How?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:16 PM
Reply to  S R Passer-by

Because the political prostitute and non-scientist official didn’t cite any facts or data, yet you saw fit to point to him as evidence that Russian science has “changed its mind” about Apollo.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:14 PM
Reply to  Editor

No data was presented in the article he linked to. Nor was data presented by the opportunist official calling for an “investigation”. If anyone disputes, I invite them to challenge me on it. Otherwise, I ask them to bite their lip and swallow their pride like adults.

mark
mark
Jul 25, 2019 4:23 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

You just have more trust in the reliability of proven liars than I do.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:12 PM
Reply to  mark

Again with the stupid straw-man that it’s down to “trust”. You use this straw-man so that you can set up a false dichotomy: “either” believe anything the government tells you, or reject it all. You stupidly ignore that there’s another avenue: fact-checking. No need to “trust” NASA or the government. Your fake dichotomy is for the weak-minded and lazy. Or are you saying that the Soviets did that? They simply “trusted” their rivals and had no way of verifying things themselves? Hmmm, interesting, given that the moon landing denier are always bleating that the Soviets were “way ahead” of the US. They were “way ahead” but they chose to simply rely on “trust” rather than their human and technical resources?

Nice attempt, buddy. But this is science we’re talking about, not a drunken gathering of family an friends.

Figth nonsense
Figth nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:57 PM
Reply to  Editor

” You have in fact cited almost zero science. You simply use the word as a weapon in your abusive and mostly fact-free tirades.” “Fact free”? “Zero science”? This is itself a fact-free assertion, and a most disingenuous and reprehensible one. Can you point to anything I’ve aid that deviates from verified empirical science? I challenged you to cite (with data and facts) why humans would venture into higher Earth orbit if not on route to the moon. You didn’t do so, but I certainly challenge you to. I also linked to sources expressing the views of established science on the topic of the moon landings in various posts of mine. And my opponents have been singularly incapable of defending their own claims other than through cavalier resort to fact-free assertions. Some have even slunk away from doing so altogether, and have resorted to simply skipping ahead to ad hominems,… Read more »

mark
mark
Jul 25, 2019 4:22 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

It’s not only possible, it has been done.
Those are just 2 examples.
There are many others.
That doesn’t mean The Moon was a hoax.
Just that people who express doubts and reservations should not automatically be treated with contempt.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:06 PM
Reply to  mark

“It’s not only possible, it has been done.
Those are just 2 examples.”

For the reasons I explained, these are poor examples.

“There are many others.”

Present them.

“That doesn’t mean The Moon was a hoax.
Just that people who express doubts and reservations should not automatically be treated with contempt.”

True, but that’s emphatically not what’s going on here. These “doubters’ are making sweeping, arrogant and mindless claims that defy all engineering and logistical sense, and smuggling in dogmato-lunatic garbage in place of scientific rigor. That’s the difference.

binra
binra
Jul 25, 2019 9:27 AM
Reply to  mark

I have read that the Germans used a Polish manufacturer to make the Enigma coding machine and that the Poles made secretly made a copy of every component and worked out its function. So the code was already broken and the Polish copy captured in the breaking of the Maginot line during the first actions of the war. However Poles escaped to Britain with the secrets such that it was only a ‘secret’ to those below a certain level of privileged access. Slightly similar story with the ‘top secret’ Norden bombsight. Now how the various conflicting narratives operate at different levels is another thing – but narratives are also cover stories and that DOES come through the article above. The idea that we are being lied to may also be the idea that we want to live a lie or persist in self-illusion for our OWN reasons or for reasons… Read more »

mark
mark
Jul 25, 2019 8:58 PM
Reply to  binra

My grandad was involved in the Enigma project. But he didn’t ever have a clue what it was all about or what he was working on.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:01 PM
Reply to  mark

So you admit: they didn’t tell him what it was about, and it was a secret program? Not the case with Apollo: a public program where the employees were all told what it was about, and where everyone worked consciously in that direction, cross-checking each other’s findings, constantly communicating between departments, and conducting extensive testing all the time to hone and refine the systems and sub-systems so that they could all work together as a common package. To suppose that Apollo was fake is to suppose that they threw all this human expertise at the project and built up all this technical knowledge about how to land people on the moon, but that the “final decision makers” STILL chose to “fake” it.

mark
mark
Jul 26, 2019 9:47 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

If they can keep these things secret, and the endless catalogue of Russiagate/ 9/11 style hoaxes are still touted as “established facts”, then they could fake a moon landing and cover it up. (Though that’s not to say they actually did.)

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 11:06 AM
Reply to  mark

“If they can keep these things secret, and the endless catalogue of Russiagate/ 9/11 style hoaxes are still touted as “established facts”, then they could fake a moon landing and cover it up. ” No, the scale is completely different. You ignore that 400,000 professionals worked on Apollo, and you ignore that not a single person has come forward to ever say they were part of an Apollo “hoax”. No evidence of a conspiratorial cabal managing the conspiracy has ever surfaced in any way, shape or form. So no, they couldn’t have covered it up – firstly, because it isn’t possible to trick EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL involved in the program, and secondly because they would have to have achieved absolutely airtight control over leaks to the present day, requiring oversight and coordination by a veritable secret police organization. No such organization has ever been revealed, nor has the logistical signature… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 6:14 AM
Reply to  mark

“Do that and you can’t go far wrong.” Well, of course you CAN, as moon landing denial amply demonstrates, so I don’t know where you’re getting this ridiculous notion from. When you dogmatically cling to “they HAVE to be lying about everything”, you’re going to start believing in some very kooky things. Of course, one doesn’t have to pay this price in order to stay vigilant against government lies. One can use fact-checking and verification. The choice isn’t between blindly believing whatever the government tells you and straight up rejecting everything they say, you know. There is an alternative, and that’s known as “science”. “If a government agency or the MSM say it’s snowing at the North Pole, you shouldn’t accept that unless you’ve been there yourself to verify it.” This is very silly and is the way that Flat Earthers argue. Of course, one doesn’t have to personally be… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 8:23 AM
Reply to  mark

Mark, I doubt there’s a person on the planet who recognises more fakery done by government than I do but I don’t have any problem believing that the moon landings were real because I simply always judge by the evidence. When there is substantial evidence available which supports “real” and where any seeming contradictory evidence can easily be debunked or can be accepted as an unexplained anomaly because it doesn’t carry sufficient weight to contradict the massive weight of evidence supporting “real”, I choose “real”.

Also, in every event I recognise fakery, the fakery is always made obvious. The power elite are fair in that way – they make their fakery obvious. I see no evidence of fakery made obvious in the moon landings.

mark
mark
Jul 29, 2019 3:57 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I’ve spoken to NASA engineers, great blokes, and you’re probably right.
But my main point stands.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 29, 2019 7:42 AM
Reply to  mark

I agree with you up to a point but then I think there are people who have the psychological profile of “disbelieve-everything-from-authority” (which includes my identical twin) and they disbelieve the moon landings on that basis although they believe that their arguments are perfectly sound and logical. You simply cannot argue them out of them. It’s amazing.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 3:23 AM

This article shows bias.

In this speech to the United Nations, September 20, 1963, JFK shows clear interest in working cooperatively with Russia to go to the moon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huW46kh5-hg (2 minutes)

Also, in this commencement speech at American University, June 10, 1963
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fkKnfk4k40 (27 minutes)
Transcript: https://www.jfklibrary.org/archives/other-resources/john-f-kennedy-speeches/american-university-19630610

It seems that Khrushchev was the one not interested in co-operating.
https://www.quora.com/Did-the-Soviet-Union-publicly-accept-Kennedys-race-to-the-Moon-against-NASA-since-it-actually-kept-its-N1-Moon-rocket-classified-for-several-decades

What really pisses me off is contaminating the commemoration of the amazing achievement of the moon landings with a fake story about a moon dust experiment that “hitchhiked” to the moon. Utterly disgusting and shameful.
https://www.sciencealert.com/apollo-moon-dust-from-1966-to-2009
https://www.smh.com.au/national/sydney-moon-dust-experiment-on-board-apollo-11-20190715-p527ho.html

George
George
Jul 25, 2019 9:56 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Off topic, Flaxgirl (I really wanted to post this on the Off-G Anthrax article but that seems to have been taken off line) but I just wanted to thank you for putting me in touch with that remarkable film “JFK to 911 Everything Is A Rich Man’s Trick”. Incidentally, your link to it seems dead but it can still be accessed here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ObvK4NR_LI

Should that no longer work, I’m sure it can be accessed by just searching for the title.
A transcript can be found here:

https://lawyershtab.com/index.php/2018/12/08/jfk-to-9-11-everything-is-a-rich-mans-trick/

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 26, 2019 3:54 AM
Reply to  George

I appreciate your appreciation, George. As you can see, I generally get the opposite on the comments here and just about everywhere else despite the fact that I think that what I say is pretty straightforward and self-evident when you actually bother to consult the evidence and push aside your paradigms of how the world works.

My link does work but craftily YouTube makes it look as if it doesn’t. You simply have to click again. I think I might change my link to yours though, as people might think the link doesn’t work. Although the transcript isn’t a proper transcript and looks as if it’s been generated from the audio it’s still useful. Thanks for that.

How very interesting that the Anthrax attacks article has been pulled. Admin, if you read this can you let us know the reason.

George
George
Jul 26, 2019 8:22 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

What I got from the Conolly film is that the JFK assassination was such a farcically botched job (with its multiple shootings, primitive film tampering and escalating further assassinations) that it put the perpetrators on a steep learning curve where they released that even something as relatively simple as the shooting of a president was open to too many unpredictable variables. They also realised the vital importance of a compliant media who would be the ultimate safeguards of the desired story. Apply this logic to 9/11 and you realise that the use of actual planes in New York would have been impossibly risky. There is no way you could guarantee a conveniently localised destruction. The only way you could do that is to have explosives in the buildings with no extraneous factors. Now most people in New York go about their business without looking up, skyscrapers being a mundane familiarity… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 26, 2019 3:52 PM
Reply to  George

While I have the utmost respect for the film and probably believed all of it at the time I watched it, I have learnt a few significant things since. One is that they tell us with deliberate clues what they’re up to and the other is that their propaganda can be targeted directly at truthers and be very counterintuitive. Because they know that truthers think they’re the guilty party anyway, they play on that knowledge. They lead us down various garden paths with all kinds of stories and a seeming “botching” might be completely deliberate. I think it’s entirely possible that the only person killed, at least at the time of the JFK assassination was JFK himself. Lee Harvey Oswald wasn’t and I bet the good-looking policeman wasn’t body-switched either – but he may have been. Or maybe he was killed because he refused to be in on the conspiracy.… Read more »

George
George
Jul 26, 2019 5:18 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I am familiar with some of the methods of disinformation. Indeed – the film makes a very good point about how truth can be mixed with falsehood. This has three effects: to make the truth seem false, to make the falsehood seem true and finally to simply cause confusion leading to despair and a shrug of “Well – we’ll never know”.

For this reason – even a totally untrustworthy source can still have genuine information. Early after 9/11 one David Shayler (an “ex-intelligence” man – ho ho!) made a pretty good film attacking a BBC hit piece ridiculing 9/11 “conspiracy theories” – after which he turned round and declared himself to be the Son of God. Nice one! And all that perfectly reasonable argument for an inside job becomes tainted as “the view of a nut”.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 6:05 AM
Reply to  George

Yes, as someone says, there is no ex!, there is no ex-CIA. Love that. I like the neat “make true seem false and false seem true” so that we end up with “we’ll never know”. We know that LHO did not assassinate JFK and they virtually tell us that in the rifle that they allegedly gave him to shoot him. Also, it seems Zapruder was an agent too so we can’t rely on his film. My feeling is that while in the film the explanation for the person who made the fatal shot is compelling I wonder if it’s actually much more prosaic than that. I need to watch the film again.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 6:16 AM
Reply to  George

There’s wall-to-wall 9/11 controlled opposition. Wall-to-wall. The key truth to 9/11 is that death and injury were staged and how they’ve cleverly hidden this truth from truthers is to push – and I mean PUSH – controlled demolition in our faces and transform this seeming truth liability into a magical propaganda asset by combining this truth in a variety of ways with the lie of real death and injury, eg, the “loved ones” expressing belief in controlled demolition while lamenting the loss of their son or husband. Key to understanding how the power elite control us is that they propagandise to us very much according to our profiles – these are ones I think I can identify: * those who believe anything from authority (the power elite don’t have to worry about these people and feed them any old rubbish – I guess you could say I was in this… Read more »

George
George
Jul 27, 2019 8:59 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I think that most of the people around me are the way I used to be. And there are two aspects to this: First, there is a deep feeling of “Well, we’re OK. Life isn’t too bad. There’s a lot of stuff happening out there and it’s not good. And it may have a lot to do with what OUR government is doing. But we don’t really want to know about it. And if some troublesome protester insists on shoving stuff in our face, we’ll go along with what the authorities say just so we can get back to our beer and soap operas.” Second, (and this is the weird one), a lot of people can make statements like “The media lies all the time” and “Our leaders are all a bunch of crooks” but these are just cynical sounding noises that the speakers don’t really take on board. I… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 9:17 AM
Reply to  George

Yep. My mother who knows far more about history than I do and generally is fairly politically-minded doesn’t want a bar of the “fake news” that I try to tell her about. I emailed her a link to a story by the ABC about high-school students doing an Aboriginal performance getting laughed off stage with racist comments which didn’t add up in any shape or form. I simply asked her what she thought of it rather than push “fake news”. She said that it “didn’t add up” but that “no doubt there is an explanation.” Well, yes, there is a very obvious explanation – it’s fake. My mother used to be a teacher and if any student had submitted anything like that story she would have gone utterly ballistic with the red pen but she’s fine with this as there is no doubt some explanation or other but who knows… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 3:08 AM

According to Antony Sutton, the British American economist, historian, professor, and writer, the race to the moon was phoney – which I think is really quite hilarious. Perhaps NASA was actually “leaking” US technology to the Russians to help create the fiction that there was a real race going on to justify continued funding. http://www.rolfkenneth.no/NWO_review_Sutton_Soviet.html The phoney “race” to the Moon: “In the mid-sixties, any foolhardy person who insisted that the United States would be first on the moon because the Russians were technologically backward was dismissed as a dimwitted neanderthal. But at least two skilled observers with firsthand access to the Soviet program made a detailed case, one in 1958 and one in 1969. Lloyd Mallan wrote Russia and the Big Red Lie in 1958, after an almost unrestricted 14.000 mile trip through Russia to visit thirty-eight Soviet scientists. He took 6,000 photographs. It was Mallan who first drew… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 4:29 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

This take makes little sense. If NASA had to secretly throw the Soviets some help because the latter were “actually” behind, why is it that the Soviets were the ones who were ahead at the start?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 4:58 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I’m afraid I cannot answer that question, Fight nonsense, however, history shows they didn’t get anywhere near going to the moon while US astronauts landed there – 6 times.
This is an interesting 15 minute video showing why they failed – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6fjs_8Yx8

If it is true I think it is pretty funny.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 5:09 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

That’s a good video. He has some other good stuff on the moon landings.

George
George
Jul 25, 2019 8:11 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

The Soviets starting out ahead may have been intended as a kind of “opening salvo” for the big race. The writer Stephen King has spoken about how traumatic the announcement of Soviet achievement was. (From what I recall, he said this was announced just before a cinema showing as a piece of “breaking news”). Perhaps the news was intended to be traumatic.

I’m not saying this “phoney start” is what definitely happened but it’s a possibility.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 8:47 AM
Reply to  George

I wouldn’t be in the least surprised, George.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:35 AM
Reply to  George

“The Soviets starting out ahead may have been intended as a kind of “opening salvo” for the big race.”

Sure, we can come up with all sorts of scenarios to make historical events fit whatever conspiratorial narrative we want. It doesn’t give those narratives any credence.

James O'Neill
James O'Neill
Jul 25, 2019 2:57 AM

I freely admit that I am not a scientist, but there are several things about the alleged moon visits, the last of which was alleged to have occurred nearly 50 years ago, that puzzle me.
How did the astronauts overcome the problems created by the van Allen radiation belts?
If the technology existed 50 years ago (the date of the first alleged moon landing) why has it not been greatly advanced and utilised ever since?
Why is it that technologically more advanced nations than the US, such as China and Russia, never replicated the moon landings given their enormous propaganda value?
These and other questions are a genuine puzzle. I am genuinely interested in real scientific answers.

William HBonney
William HBonney
Jul 25, 2019 3:14 AM
Reply to  James O'Neill

Why is it that technologically more advanced nations than the US, such as China and Russia, never replicated the moon landings given their enormous propaganda value? Because after it has been achieved, it really doesn’t have that great a propaganda value. The last of the Apollo missions involved stupid stunts like playing golf on the moon. An unmanned trip to the moon is no great indicator of technological advancement, as India and China would have you believe, given that the US was doing infinitely more difficult manned missions half a century ago. The million dollar ‘space pen’ is often cited as indicative of the supposed waste inherent in the Apollo program (the punchline being that the Soviets used a pencil). The space pen was developed because it really isn’t a good idea to have graphite dust from a pencil in an oxygen rich atmosphere, where there are electrical contacts that… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 26, 2019 2:00 PM

“The million dollar ‘space pen’ is often cited as indicative of the supposed waste inherent in the Apollo program (the punchline being that the Soviets used a pencil). The space pen was developed because it really isn’t a good idea to have graphite dust from a pencil in an oxygen rich atmosphere, where there are electrical contacts that may arc. The Americans learned that the hard way.” You’re billy bonkers for whichever line suggests that the western Establishment’s orifices always smell of roses, aren’t you? However, the development costs of the space pen (reportedly about a million dollars, but costing NASA a total of $2,400.00 up to and including their first purchase of a pre-priced production batch) compared to one fixed-price contract for space pencils (apparently unknown, but costing NASA a total of $4,382.50 up to and including their first purchase of a production batch), plus–in both cases–the unreported costs… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 4:10 AM
Reply to  James O'Neill

James, here is an answer that ironically says that the astronauts were exposed to more radiation outside the Van Allen belts. https://www.quora.com/How-did-Apollo-go-through-with-the-Van-Allen-radiation-belts I have an identical twin and we have argued and argued and argued to the point of insanity over the moon landings. I just watched Massimo Mazzucco’s “American Moon” which raises 40 seeming anomalies. Some of them I have to say strike me as puzzling such as the lack of delay in the dialogue between Houston and the astronauts on the moon, however, most of the anomalies I think are easily explained (often just with a simple Google search) and because of that I think the film is a bit shoddy. What I find is that often a seeming anomaly actually supports the “real” over “faked” hypothesis better. For example, Mazzucco makes the point that when Mythbusters make a bootprint in dry sand with the claim it holds… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:47 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

“Some of them I have to say strike me as puzzling such as the lack of delay in the dialogue between Houston and the astronauts on the moon”

THAT’S what the “documentary” clown is presenting as compelling evidence? The delay was edited out of a lot of the footage shown to TV audiences in order to help the flow. The actual footage contains the delays: https://www.moonhoaxdebunked.com/2017/07/97-why-is-there-no-delay-in-apollo.html

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 12:27 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

No, in this case, Fight nonsense, it wasn’t where the delay had been edited out – he mentions that and excludes that. I had an example but I can’t find it now.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 11:18 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Some moon landing deniers claim that there should be a delay in audio but ignore that the phase of the flight that this audio pertains to is actually not near the moon but still close to the Earth. Might it be that?

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 2:47 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

The Italian version of Mazzucco’s film is on YT. At this point, https://youtu.be/IOVK1gAvo8A?t=5808, he gives an example from Apollo 15 where the Spacecraft Films version of the audio (supposedly no editing of timing) shows that the delay is too short between Houston and the moon (less than 2.6 s (1.3 there, 1.3 back).

However, he says, if you go to https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15.trvsta4.html and download the audio snippet there (it’s at 146:21:26), the delay is a lot longer.

The first example is the one below. As you can see the delay is 7 seconds whereas in the Spacecraft Films audio it’s only 1.1 seconds.

146:25:41 Allen: Roger, Jim. Copy. And are you progressing towards Dune Crater now?
146:25:48 Irwin: Yes. Well, we’re following our tracks. We thought when we got up here just south of Dune, we’d probably head north-northeast.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 6:40 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Which audio snippet do I download from the NASA website? There are several.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 28, 2019 7:16 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

The one at 146:21:26. Just to make clear I do not fear that this anomaly is going to bring the “real” moon landings hypothesis crashing to Area 51. 🙂

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 30, 2019 12:05 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

No, I mean what actual audio file do I download. Provide the link please. There are several MP3 audio files on the page.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 26, 2019 12:56 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

The entire thing is not a hoax, but a COVERUP. Rather than admit that their navigation systems were completely out of wack and they’d disastrously overshot in the wrong direction, landing on Ganymede instead, they had no option to haul the whole thing back to the intended Presidential scale and lie in their teeth. The alternative was to come clean and be a laughing stock all over the Kremlin. I made some footage landing my DJI on a neighbour’s bowler hatchet and voila, the whole shabby incident was exposed for the COVERUP it always has been. See diagram below for PROOF:

O←—–→o

O←——————————————————–→O

Diagram 1: Lunar Schemozzle (radiation-adjusted chromatic scale)

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 4:17 AM
Reply to  James O'Neill

“How did the astronauts overcome the problems created by the van Allen radiation belts?” Hi James. Why not just inform yourself? The solution to this “puzzle” has long been readily available to anyone with an inclination to check. The Van Allen radiation belts can be traversed by going through the least active regions of them, and doing so for only a short period of time. For the amount of time that the astronauts were there, the materials used in the Apollo spacecraft were entirely adequate. Of course, prolonged stays in that region of space would pose more serious problems and hazards, but they were only in space for a few days. I’ve heard one estimate that the amount of exposure they received was equivalent to the amount that a worker in the nuclear industry would receive in a year. Also note that the type of radiation they were exposed to… Read more »

Godfree Roberts
Godfree Roberts
Jul 25, 2019 8:46 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

It’s not something that can be casually brushed off, as current assessments show: Scientists are grappling with our biggest limitation in spaceflight: our own bodies We’ve sent people to space for decades — but we’re only beginning to learn what that means for human health. By Brian Resnick@[email protected] Updated Jul 18, 2019, 10:03am EDT ““Radiation doses accumulated by astronauts in interplanetary space would be several hundred times larger than the doses accumulated by humans over the same time period on Earth, and several times larger than the doses of astronauts and cosmonauts working on the International Space Station,” physicists working with the European Space Agency reported in 2018.” ““One day in space is equivalent to the radiation received on Earth for a whole year,” explains physicist Marco Durante, who studies cosmic radiation on Earth. Marco points out that most of the changes in the astronauts’ gene expression are believed to… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:42 AM

Apparently, you don’t even read what you post. Note when he says: “interplanetary.” The moon missions were a few days long and were not interplanetary. Missions to Mars would expose astronauts to a lot more radiation than the Apollo astronauts were. Note also that the scientists you cite consider the moon landing denying nonsense you’re peddling to be just that: nonsense. But you won’t listen to them when they talk about Apollo. You’ll only quote mine them for things that will seem to you to fit your narrative – but even that stuff refutes you on closer inspection. “A second source of space radiation comes from unpredictable solar particle events that deliver high doses of radiation in a short period of time” Yes, that was a risk taken by Apollo.If a solar flare had erupted, they would have died. What next? You’re going to tell me “Apollo didn’t happen because… Read more »

MrChops
MrChops
Jul 25, 2019 1:42 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I am not a scientist either James O’Neil but I i hope I am an open and honest person who can challange my own opinions and follow logical and coherent arguments without resorting to ad-hominen attacks and riducule.

So I add the following link to the discussion. Jarrah White and his Moonfaker series is an escellent source of information should one be interested in challenging science with science.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 26, 2019 4:48 AM
Reply to  MrChops

Seriously, MrChops, Seriously? Jarrah White debunked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqy8Dmx3UlQ

It’s interesting. I researched 9/11 before I researched the moon landings and, from a few months in, whenever I saw the term “debunking” (unless it was in the case of David Ray Griffin’s Debunking the Debunkers) I’d wince. The term “debunking” came to have the same meaning as “complete bullshit” in my eyes. Having moved on to the moon hoaxing literature, the term has reversed its meaning.

MrChops
MrChops
Jul 26, 2019 4:47 PM
Reply to  flaxgirl

I followed you link and spent some time considering the comments below the video. What a childish game this is of debunking the debunking of the debunkers debunkering. I simply questioned nonsenses assertion that the VAB argument had been won. I am sure that if both sides could agree on the data being used in the calculations an outcome could be achieved. Without it it will forever be a c are of my data is right and yours is wrong.

Or alternatively one could just go to moon settle it once and for all.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 27, 2019 6:23 AM
Reply to  MrChops

The thing is, MrChops, there’s loads of evidence saying we went to the moon so I think if we have to make a judgement why not put out of consideration items where no agreement can be reached and look at other items. No one, for example, has explained how all the audio between Houston and the moon was faked. “Acting” simply won’t wash.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 11:15 AM
Reply to  MrChops

Jarrah’s arguments about the VAB, like all else he talks about, are erroneous and easily disproved by established science. What scientific resources did you use to verify that he constitutes an “excellent source”? Certainly not any professional resources used by practicing physicists, astronomers, planetary scientists or geologists.

What arguments about the VAB do you find compelling?

“Or alternatively one could just go to moon settle it once and for all.”

You want them to waste billions of dollars just because you prefer not to fact-check?

MrChops
MrChops
Jul 27, 2019 11:42 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Could have used the Trillions of dollars that went missing from the Pentagon. Oh wait it didn’t go missing – we just don’t have the evidence of where it went coz some ‘plane’ destroyed it on 9/11. How convenient- much like the Apollo film footage…….

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 6:25 AM
Reply to  MrChops

You mean the Apollo film footage of which copies were made?

Try again, this time with facts rather than ego.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 25, 2019 2:35 AM

“Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? / That’s not my department, says Wernher von Braun.”

Needs more bandwidth

mark
mark
Jul 25, 2019 1:55 AM

All sorts of things that are now a feature of everyday life would not have been produced without the space programme. Mundane things like disposable nappies. Mobile phones and computers. There is a very long list of things that would not have been developed, certainly not in their present form. A colossal mistake was made post 1945 in demonising the Soviet Union and moving to Cold War confrontation. The end of the war could have ushered in an era of unparalleled cooperation, peace and prosperity. Instead we had a nuclear confrontation and a succession of bloodbaths in Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East and Africa. Russia has never been a threat to western countries, going back to the 16th century when Elizabeth I established diplomatic relations with Ivan The Terrible. Not under the Romanovs, the Bolsheviks, or its current leadership. It has only ever responded to external threats. It is such… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 25, 2019 2:53 AM
Reply to  mark

“All sorts of things that are now a feature of everyday life would not have been produced without the space programme. Mundane things like disposable nappies. Mobile phones and computers. There is a very long list of things that would not have been developed, certainly not in their present form.”

Mundane me! We should get there again a.s.a.p! Can’t wait for the next round: self-eating restaurants. Wearable septic tanks and everlasting one-time depilatories…

Refraktor
Refraktor
Jul 25, 2019 1:27 AM

The most ridiculous hoax. A busted flush. A Disney fantasy. The interesting aspect is the collusion in this hoax of the governments and media of the world. Even the Russians chose not to debunk at the height of the Cold War. This really is strange on the face of it.

Ken
Ken
Jul 25, 2019 1:37 AM
Reply to  Refraktor

Refraktor, who would have believed the Russians if they had blown the lid off what is so obviously the hoaxing of a mission that cannot even be accomplished today? They would have been laughed at and ridiculed as sore losers. As is the case with 9/11, the biggest needno protection; they protect themselves.

Ken
Ken
Jul 25, 2019 1:40 AM
Reply to  Ken

Make that “The biggest lies need no protection…”

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 26, 2019 2:43 PM
Reply to  Ken

This is getting more bizarre by the minute. Keep it going, it’s compulsive reading. But how many reading here know that the Vietnam war was a CIA psyop with only a handful of real deaths and a marble wall full of fake ones? Or that that wall was made with the obelisk in 2001, recycled after production had finished? Or that the first versions of Agent Orange were made of clockwork? Get with the real programs people. World Wars I & II and the Korean War were all hoaxes to. Wake up!

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 2:51 AM
Reply to  Ken

“Refraktor, who would have believed the Russians if they had blown the lid off what is so obviously the hoaxing of a mission that cannot even be accomplished today?” This is the pathetic refrain offered by some moon landing deniers. Yet it contradicts what other moon landing deniers claim: that the Soviets had to be “bribed” or “threatened” to ensure their silence (why would they have to be bribed or threatened if “no one would believe them”?). You stupidly ask “Who would have believed the Russians if they had blown the lid off an obvious hoax?” You’re literally too stupid to see that you just refuted the validity of your own question: you say that it was “obviously” a hoax, but that the Russians wouldn’t have been believed if they had blown the lid off of it. You can’t have it both ways. This also begs the question: why didn’t… Read more »

Ken
Ken
Jul 25, 2019 3:33 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight nonsense, do you believe those who assert that 9/11 was a false flag, or inside job, are also imbeciles?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 3:57 AM
Reply to  Ken

I believe the topic under consideration is the Apollo program and its missions. I’m sorry that you think “This conspiracy happened, so this other conspiracy also must have happened” is sound logic. Unless you can refute what I wrote, you’re holding an empty bag. But to answer your specific question, I do indeed think that many people who assert that 9/11 was a false flag/inside ob are imbeciles, not because it would be beyond the capabilities or cynicism of the US government to do that, but because the reasons these people use are very often trash. For example, they keep repeating the meme “Oh, so you think that that the steel beams melted?” while not realizing that the beams would not have had to melt, but to have simply weakened in order of the buildings to collapse. As for moon landing deniers, I believe them pretty much ALL to be… Read more »

Ken
Ken
Jul 25, 2019 4:06 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight nonsense, do you believe that 9/11 was a false flag, or inside job?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 4:40 AM
Reply to  Ken

I’m curious: what’s with this attempt to derail the focus on Apollo? I hope you’re not concern-trolling. Note that I’m not saying that conspiracies don’t happen. I’m saying that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Apollo was a conspiracy. Just because lots of people believe in an erroneous conspiracy theory doesn’t mean that credibility should be attributed to it.

Ken
Ken
Jul 25, 2019 4:52 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I’m curious; why don’t you answer a simple question: do you believe 9/11 was a false flag/inside job?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 5:29 AM
Reply to  Ken

Because the purport of the question is to derail the discussion and to concern-troll. It doesn’t matter that it’s a simple question. If you have any real questions (that is, questions about Apollo), I’d be happy to answer them.

Ken
Ken
Jul 25, 2019 5:55 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

All I need to know about Apollo, I got from a movie called “American Moon,” so I don’t have any “real” questions for you. Please answer my question, do you believe 9/11 was an inside job/false flag? Your simple, yes or no answer will be the end of the discussion as far as I am concerned, so there’s no derailing of this discussion which itself, being on the authenticity of the Moon landings, is off the topic of the article.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 8:02 AM
Reply to  Ken

“All I need to know about Apollo, I got from a movie called “American Moon,” so I don’t have any “real” questions for you.”

No, all you DECIDED you need to know about Apollo was what a fraudulent “documentary” that assured you of your biases and presuppositions soothingly told you. This is how cowards like you “inform” yourselves, and then you whine and stamp your feet when non-lunatics see you as a joke. I look forward to your refutation of a single thing I’ve said.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 8:23 AM
Reply to  Ken

American Moon, Ken, is full of holes. It is shoddy. You do NOT consult a bunch of fashion photographers to discuss moon photographs. That is not good research when there are lunar experts who are much better able to discuss them. Mazzucco has not debunked loads of things.

The claim that the Mythbusters sand bootprint is not as clearly cut as the moon bootprint doesn’t prove that the bootprint was produced in a moist environment, only that Mythbusters’ debunking was lacking. I challenge anyone to produce an exact replica of the Apollo bootprints on earth – moist environment or not.

different frank
different frank
Jul 25, 2019 7:53 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

so many comments.
One might think you had an agenda.

Fight nosnense
Fight nosnense
Jul 25, 2019 10:59 AM

Indeed. It’s fighting stupidity and ignorance. I don’t think it’s cool to let people wallow in it. Do you?

What’s your agenda in not using scientific arguments to refute anything I actually say?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 4:43 AM
Reply to  Ken

BTW, I noticed that you didn’t refute anything I said. I look forward to you doing so. And yes, it will have to be more substantial than “So you think 9/11 truthers are imbeciles as well?”

Steve
Steve
Jul 25, 2019 4:59 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

“BTW, I noticed that you didn’t refute anything I said. I look forward to you doing so.“

Life is short. Spend as much time as you can arguing with strangers on the Internet.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 5:31 AM
Reply to  Steve

Well, he wants to derail the discussion and make it about 9/11 – after he tossed around a bunch of claims about Apollo that he can’t back up. He doesn’t get to back out of this just because he’s doesn’t like that I’m pointing at his empty bag.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 25, 2019 9:36 AM
Reply to  Steve

My preliminary hunch about ‘fight nonsense’ is that s/he has an obvious bee-in-the-bonnet about the high-profile but widely-questioned memes of today, such as the – already well-proven 11/9 false-flag, or the clearly somewhat iffy Moon-landings story. These are clearly deeply discomforting scepticisms to many – despite being well-justified. Hence FN’s torrent of scoffy chop-logic cluttering up this comment thread. But giving off such frantic-debunker vibes doesn’t make for persuasiveness in discussion… 🙂

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:56 AM

“despite being well-justified” Where?

“Hence FN’s torrent of scoffy chop-logic cluttering up this comment thread.” Says the person who hasn’t refuted a single thing I’ve said, but still alludes to “well-justified skepticisms.” Mouthing platitudes about “frantic-debunker vibes” doesn’t negate that you’re holding an empty bag and that you guys are looking increasingly desperate. Try some actual science for a change. You might like it 🙂

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 4:52 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight nonsense, 9/11 is easily exposed as an inside job … try making 10 points that favour “fire” over “controlled demolition” for the collapse of WTC-7. It cannot be done and, in fact, nor can a single point be made, as I have incontrovertibly proven. And in Graeme MacQueen’s words, “There is no room in the official story for controlled demolition.”
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/5000-challenge.html

In fact, there is compelling evidence that the first person to call moon hoax, Bill Kaysing, was a CIA agent utilised to undermine disbelievers-on-principle-of-authority who swallow his nonsense but who recognise 9/11 for what it was. The effect created was of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Conspiracy theorists! Wrong about moon landings, wrong about 9/11!
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/mind-control.html

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 4:54 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

The key secret of 9/11 is that death and injury were staged – and no one has come up with a single point that favours “real” over “staged” on that aspect of 9/11 either.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 5:49 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Is this meant as satire or are you actually being serious? Alarm bells immediately rang in my head when I saw the inevitable “$5,000 challenge.” This money, of course, has no chance of ever being claimed regardless of whether someone meets the challenge, because the “challenge” exists simply as spectacle to “demonstrate” the confidence of the conspiracist. It’s like the money offered in fake “challenges” on creationist websites to “provide a single proof of evolution.” The disgusting insinuation that the injuries and deaths were faked is really a dedicated level of low-life desperation among conspiracists and is akin to spitting in the faces of the families who lost loved ones. Particularly vile is how you help yourselves to photos of people in distress and then adjudicate yourselves a false “expertise” that allows you to judge the authenticity of the photos and what they “reveal”. Ugh, it actually makes me want… Read more »

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 7:11 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight nonsense, you obviously haven’t looked at the evidence I present, have you? Not a completely evidence-based person are you then? You must always consult the evidence before arguing with your “logical grounds”. There are very good logical grounds for not killing the people, Fight nonsense. Very good. The biggest one is, of course, all the loved ones of the 3,000 dead and 6,000 injured people, not to mention the 6,000 injured themselves. That’s a lot of people. People swallow propaganda, if reluctantly, from the government under normal circumstances but when a loved one dies they transform into a super sleuth who will stop at nothing to get truth and justice, especially when the evidence of controlled demolition is so obvious. The government doesn’t want thousands of loved ones and injured marching on the Capitol, who will also be persuading all the other citizens of the truth of 9/11. They… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:51 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

Not to worry, I will trawl through your website. I love punishment.

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 8:34 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Just consider, Fight evidence. Say it really were 19 terrorists armed with boxcutters who cleverly hijacked four airliners, navigated them through the best defended airspace on earth, to crash them into two 110-storey skyscrapers bringing them crashing to the ground in about 12 seconds each which in turn caused the collapse in 6.5 seconds of a 47-storey skyscraper, plus navigated a plane in a 330 manoeuvre into Defence HQ. Let’s just say that really happened. Don’t you think the loved ones of the 3,000 who tragically died and the 6,000 injured not to mention the 6,000 themselves would be a little upset about it? Don’t you think that rather than simply swallow it as most of the other citizenry has, don’t you think that they might be demanding a few answers as to why their country’s multi-trillion dollar defense system failed so utterly spectacularly on that fateful day. What? They’re… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 10:50 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

“Wake up!” is another dead giveaway that you’re pushing nonsense.

George
George
Jul 25, 2019 4:32 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

“The disgusting insinuation that the injuries and deaths were faked…”

The old moral outrage that automatically presupposes the very matter that is being disputed. A bit like fundamentalist Christians saying, “You better believe in God otherwise you’ll go to Hell!”

flaxgirl
flaxgirl
Jul 25, 2019 5:05 AM
Reply to  flaxgirl

… I should say disbelievers of authority who partly recognise 9/11 for what it was. It is only a small percentage of truthers who recognise that death and injury were staged and I’ve found that people who tend to disbelieve authorities and have a very low opinion of them are not so eager to embrace the staged death and injury aspect. It’s as if they want to believe the evil US government killed all those poor people. To me, it doesn’t make the govt less or more evil whichever way they did it but it certainly makes more sense for them not to kill people for real and it is obvious from other events that it is not part of their MO. People call 9/11 a psyop but, especially those who believe the planes were real, think the psyop part was really quite miniscule. The only thing that makes sense… Read more »

mark
mark
Jul 25, 2019 5:04 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

If they’re capable of hoaxes such as Iraqi WMD, Iran’s non existent nuclear programme, Syria Gas Attack hoaxes, Russiagate, Skripal, USS Liberty, Gladio, and a hundred other examples you could quote, why not this?

“Everybody knows”, “it is an established fact” that all the above things are true. “This is undeniable.”

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 5:24 AM
Reply to  mark

“If they’re capable of hoaxes such as Iraqi WMD, Iran’s non existent nuclear programme, Syria Gas Attack hoaxes, Russiagate, Skripal, USS Liberty, Gladio, and a hundred other examples you could quote, why not this?” Because each of those examples constitute only relatively small-scale hoaxes involving only a relative handful of people. To pull off a fake moon landing, you would need to literally trick hundreds of thousands of specialists and experts for years on end – specialists and experts intimately and inextricably involved in the very project whose goal is meant to be a “hoax”. This presents formidable logistical and organizational challenges that cannot be casually waved away because Bush lied about Iraq’s WMD. Also note that things like Iraq and Syria’s WMD culminate, at most with “Oh well, we believed that THEY were doing this, but we were wrong. My bad.” With the moon landing, the exposure would come… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 27, 2019 5:31 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

I think there is sufficient evidence to allow one to reasonably question the Apollo narrative. Honestly, your sweeping statements and ad hominums really don’t strengthen your case, rather they look shrill and rather desperate.

Please stop appealing to consensus to defend things.

Does it bother you that you use exactly the same tactics that people use to defend 911 official narratives et al, including endless sneering and smearing. Oh stop it!

I often think Jarrah White is an eccentric but honest young man, seeking the truth. I think he’s a great example of an independent but very knowledgeable Apollo doubter. He’s just qualified as an astrophysicist. Here is his website that spells out his position very clearly in his FAQs, and backs this up with hundreds of hours of research vids, testing the evidence and numbers supplied by NASA.

http://www.moonfaker.com/faqs.html

I’d love to know what you think.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 7:30 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

“I think there is sufficient evidence to allow one to reasonably question the Apollo narrative. Honestly, your sweeping statements and ad hominums really don’t strengthen your case, rather they look shrill and rather desperate.” Then why not actually address my actual points instead of emoting about my tone? So far, all you guys have managed is the latter. “I often think Jarrah White is an eccentric but honest young man, seeking the truth. I think he’s a great example of an independent but very knowledgeable Apollo doubter.” Ahh, but he ISN’T, though. Far from “speaking the truth” (and how would YOU know? Did you fact-check his claims? Or did you just blindly believe them?), he makes ENDLESS – and I do mean ENDLESS – scientific errors in his claims, and often very sophomoric ones. His claims are replete with all kinds of logical fallacies, including fallacies of composition, fallacies of… Read more »

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 27, 2019 1:54 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Then why not actually address my actual points instead of emoting about my tone? You’re right, I wouldn’t need to waste any time pointing out the flaw in your debating technique if you could reign in some of your frustration. Now, I’ve been following Jarrah for some years and I happen to be familiar with this exchange. Jarrah actually posted rebuttals to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D1HyWaVwfw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvkneMYvv1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVZzmvpU8ec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yVe_a4dR7I Honestly, if you feel that Begg’s rather sneering and sometimes dishonest attempt at a debunk is suitably representative of your case then this explains a few things. I know, why don’t you post Begg’s rebuttal to Jarrah’s rebuttal, and we’ll vicariously dual it out this way? It’s the special pleading that gets me…. how much benefit of the doubt is a corrupt government’s archaic space program permitted? Is it, in fact, an infinite amount? It’s clearly more about choosing what to believe with… Read more »

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 5:39 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

What arguments of White’s do you find particularly compelling? He makes so many sophomoric mistakes, it’s hard to keep up.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 28, 2019 12:33 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Fight Nonsense, I started a new thread to continue this conversation (above ^^^^) as it’s getting very skinny down here!!!
Thanks.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 28, 2019 5:41 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

His rebuttals, like everything else he says, are fraudulent. But perhaps you’d like to address particular claims he makes, to see whether they stand up to scientific scrutiny?

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 27, 2019 1:56 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

Webb not Begg! Begg writes about Jack the Ripper 🙂

gardenfiend
gardenfiend
Jul 28, 2019 4:48 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

White deals with Webb’s critiques at some length in his series of videos here:

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 12, 2019 12:19 AM
Reply to  gardenfiend

No, White just lies constantly and gets everything wrong there as well, like he does everywhere else. The dude’s a joke.

MLS
MLS
Jul 26, 2019 1:57 PM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

So you use straw man arguments to refute the irrefutable science that proves the Three Towers were brought down by pre-planted explosives, just as you use straw man arguments – peppered with abuse – to try to close down the clearly open question of what the Apollo program really was

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Aug 12, 2019 12:17 AM
Reply to  MLS

Blah blah blah, screeches the unrepentant liar who tries to sell people his wares about “Apollo and its clearly open questions.” You’re like a fascist who accuses other people of being “the real fascists”.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 25, 2019 2:24 AM
Reply to  Refraktor

You seem to have your “k”s where your “c”s should be.

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 25, 2019 2:34 AM
Reply to  Refraktor

“The most ridiculous hoax. ” Aaaaaaaand the inevitable stupidity and miserly ignorance begins, with every imbecile rushing to offer his “opinion” on the most well scrutinized and thoroughly documented space mission in history. But if “Refraktor” thinks it was a hoax, well then, who are all the world’s actual scientists and engineers to say otherwise? “A Disney fantasy.” This is literally how this imbecile thinks the world works. That’s simply staggering. The author of this article is correct: the greatest distance still to be traveled is within us. “The interesting aspect is the collusion in this hoax of the governments and media of the world.” Refraktor can demonstrate no “collusion”, of course, so he has to argue by declaration. If there is no evidence that there was collusion, then this is to be seen as merely more evidence that there was such collusion. He stupidly ignores that the entire motivation… Read more »

Refraktor
Refraktor
Jul 26, 2019 1:52 AM
Reply to  Fight nonsense

What; keyboard warrior? Ok ducky the moon is the largest emitter of gamma in the solar system. This gamma would prove instantly lethal to humans as well as electronic devices. The surface of the moon is at above the boiling point of water. With no atmosphere with which to exchange heat there is no possible way of cooling the irradiated corpses both of these astronauts. Then there is the matter of slowing the Lem from orbital velocity before making a soft landing without adequate fuel and then repeating the stunt in reverse. I could go on indefinitely but there would be little point. I don’t think it was a hoax I know so because I am an imbecile.

Figth nonsense
Figth nonsense
Jul 26, 2019 1:34 PM
Reply to  Refraktor

“This gamma would prove instantly lethal to humans as well as electronic devices.” You’re saying that all the probes and robots sent to the moon by various countries and space agencies are fake because many of them are reputed to have worked and sent back photos, measurements, and samples? “The surface of the moon is at above the boiling point of water. ” That’s right: the SURFACE temperature. Vacuum is a very poor conductor of heat. For the surface temperature to be transferred to the astronauts, it would have to be in direct contact with the astronauts for a substantial amount of time given the materials used by the space suits (such as those used in the over-boots). Ironic that you bring up atmosphere in one of your other points. Here, education yourself: “Wouldn’t the camera films have melted or frozen on the Moon? IN A NUTSHELL: No. Temperature extremes… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 26, 2019 2:15 PM
Reply to  Figth nonsense

Is this a flaxfemme psyop? When it comes to “Fight nonsense” and “Fight nonsense” which is the real poster and which is the CIA mass-confusionary asset?

Fight nonsense
Fight nonsense
Jul 27, 2019 7:21 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

It was a typo. Are you trying to excuse the fact that you can’t refute anything I’ve actually said? I can’t even imagine having to resort to something so embarrassing and self-incriminating. But you be you, I guess.

Refraktor
Refraktor
Jul 29, 2019 5:14 AM
Reply to  Figth nonsense

Yeah I thought I’d lost the comment but I posted it. Camera film is known to be destroyed by cosmic radiation. There’s no getting away from this. Really there isn’t. I don’t believe they have the technology for a soft landing on an airless world. They didn’t have it in the 1960s.
Moon temperature is about 120 degrees Celsius. Where does this temperature come from? From the Sun beating down just as it would beat down on the astronauts. Water wouldn’t freeze as any vacuum flask will tell you. I have a very old a