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WATCH: MH17 — Call for Justice

Bonanza Media

Bonanza media investigative team of independent journalists conduct exclusive interviews with one of the suspects in the downing the MH17, the Malaysian prime minister, the colonel that collected the black boxes and much more.

Eye-opening testimonies from witnesses and irrefutable evidence from experts. Exclusive footage shot in Malaysia, the Netherlands and at the crash area in Ukraine.

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Molloy
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Molloy

This piece was posted by Tanya on Craig Murray website.
I hope that T does not object to her excellent report re-posted on offguardian:

cm 30.7.2019 (re cover up of MH17 US proxy war crime)

Tanya
MH17 news in Russia

This topic contains 2 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Tatyana 1 hour, 5 minutes ago.
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I’ll translate the paragraphs in logical order, the source in russian is here
https://ria.ru/20190730/1557000859.html
Private investigation
According to information published on the website of the firm WIFKA, detective Joseph Resch was investigating the crash of MN17 in 2014.
The customer, whose name Resch does not name because of the terms of the contract, offered a reward of firstly 30, and then another 17 million US dollars for information about the causes of the disaster.
In mid-2015, the detective was approached by an informant who provided valuable information. For this he received a reward of 15.5 million, paid in cash in three different currencies — euros, US dollars and Swiss francs.
About a year after this event, the German Prosecutor’s office brought Resch as a witness to the investigation of the criminal case “on a war crime”.
At the request of the Netherlands, the Swiss Prosecutor’s office then opened the banking cell of Resch, which he claims contained important documents.
According to Resh, “then I offered my cooperation to find ways to obtain information without putting myself in danger.” He added that the documents from the cell have not yet been returned to him.
Resch already talked about his investigation in the German press in 2015. In particular, he told Spiegel about the circumstances of the meeting with the informant. And then, in 2016, to Stern magazine about telephone threats against him.
Joseph Resch told RIA Novosti that he tried to give the Netherlands new materials on the MH17 disaster, which were not taken into account in the recent statements of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) in June, but was refused.
It is specified that Resh insisted on public data transmission, as he was threatened and he fears for his life. This condition did not suit the Dutch Prosecutor’s office. As a result, the detective published an open letter to the JIT and the Dutch Prosecutor Fred Westerbeke on the website of his detective firm WIFKA.
Letter to the international investigation
“As part of our testimony (to JIT *editor’s note) we will touch upon the following evidence and information:
audio recordings made by special services of air traffic on July 17, 2014 from fighters and “towers” (air traffic control points *editor’s note) of the Ukrainian army and separatists,
telephone conversations of the Ukrainian army,
audio recordings of special services and the military on Vladimir Putin’s flight on July 17, 2014 (on this day the President of Russia returned from Brazil to Moscow *editor’s note) before and after the crash (of MH17 *editor’s note),
records of “towers” after the information about the crash,
audio recordings including intelligence about the relevant military events by the separatists and Ukrainians for several weeks before and after the crash,
handwritten notes and personal audio recordings of fighter pilots about the incident” 
Information that the investigation does not have
In the list of information that the detective is ready to provide the SSG, there are also:
— “the name of the informant who was paid 15.5 million in various currencies in cash;
— the name of the “institution” in which the informant worked;
— disclosure of information assessment by other important holders;
— allegedly destroyed secret documents of high-ranking military and political figures;
— written notes of the special services about the incident”.
Resch insists on public disclosure
According to Resh, he is ready to transfer these documents to investigators only in the presence of representatives of the international media.
“voluntarily and only by working together we offer to make a statement to the competent JIT and the investigating prosecutor Westerbeke in the Netherlands. For the reason of our own security, we believe it is necessary that the international media as well as representatives of affected states participate in our statements and disclosure of evidence” the open letter says.
Polite refusal
The JIT has not yet responded to the letter of the German detective, but he received a response from the Dutch Prosecutor’s office, which was signed by prosecutor Anne van Doren.
The text of this letter, which is addressed to Joseph Resch’s lawyer, is available to RIA Novosti.
The Prosecutor’s office “took note” of the detective’s proposal and stressed that the JIT “always interested in materials that can contribute to the investigation.”
However, the conditions put forward by Resch are “very unusual, and they can also harm the investigation if the evidence is discussed by the media and individuals before they are examined”.
In this regard, “the JIT can not answer the request” made by Resch, says the response.
Resch, as a citizen of Germany, is recommended to apply with his “wide range of evidence” to the German Prosecutor’s office, and if he still wanted to send his materials to the JIT, the Dutch Prosecutor’s office suggests to use the appropriate online form on the group’s website.



I’m sorry for the translation error you can meet in the text.
“SSG” stands for “JIT” aka Joint Investigation Team
“ (end)

William HBonney
Reader

You should be ashamed of yourself.

People died, and you are propagating conspiracy theories. Would you be so expansive had you a loved one on board, is it just a game to you?

You a your like will never know such a death, yours will be from over indulgence, sat in the basement of your mother’s house, spewing poison on the internet.

That may have been a little unkind, but we are talking about an air disaster where nearly 300 died. You should be respectful of that.

JPH
Reader
JPH
JPH
Reader
JPH

The UN mandated the Netherlands to perform the MH17 investigation under ICAO guidelines to avoid Ukraine’s clear conflict of interest. Under ICAO guidelines such investigation is open nd transparent.

That investigation was performed by the Dutch Safety Board which credibility is already limited by its own statutes providing for maintaining secrecy if considered necessary for “National Interest”.

However the remarks of DSB chairman Joustra (former National anti-terrorist coordinator thus cozy with the Dutch intelligence services) immediately after presenting the DSB report implying the missile came from an rebel controlled area ignored that his own DSB report excluded that part of the investigation because that part was transferred to the JIT as part of attributing responsibility. Such remarks just after presenting the DSB report which excluded that very aspect must have been intentional.

The Netherlands in close cooperation with Australia and Ukraine created the JIT outside that UN mandated investigation and transferred the attribution of responsibility to that JIT investigation.

To add insult to injury Malaysia was excluded for more that 4 months while Ukraine was included in JIT from the outset thus willfully and intentionally ignoring the very reason why the Netherlands was mandated by the UN to perform the investigation in the first place.

The JIT investigation agreement between the parties was declared “State Secret” and freedom of information request to get these agreements in the public domain were refused because such openness might damage “National Interests”.

Kavy
Reader
Kavy

Czech Military Expert: Russia Was To Be Dismembered In The ’90s

“Money had already been printed for those parts of Russia that were supposed to become independent. Russia was going to dismember just like Yugoslavia. Instead of Russia, there were supposed to be about ten new states, so as to finally colonize and plunder what was left of the USSR. It was to suffer the fate of modern Ukraine, which has already begun to split up. With Russia as a state planned to end forever, Russians would turn into powerless slaves who would work for beggarly wages for Western corporations, primarily American, German and British,” said Balik.

https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/07/czech-military-expert-russia-was-to-be-dismembered-in-90s/

Pupi
Reader
Pupi

USA IS FINISH US WORLD CURENCI AND IF THEY DON’T THINK THEY WILL BE DEFINITELY DONE SOON WITH THEM HEGEMONY IN WORLD GOOD THINK IS THAT RUSSIA WOKE UP AND GET 50 YEARS A HAD WITH ARMY TECHNOLOGY IFROM USA AND NATO….

mark
Reader
mark

This was basically Hitler’s plan for Russia, carve it up into areas like “Muscovy”, “West Siberia”, and just loot its natural resources.

Frank Speaker
Reader
Frank Speaker

Unlike the lunar landing conspiracy theories, MH17 and 370 raise more than enough genuine concerns by real technicians, scientists and experts to warrant very strong doubts concerning the official narratives.

In simple terms, NATO has already declared war against Russia, and they are daily working against them. One day a hot war may ignite, then we’re all gone, but in the meantime be in no doubt that this is a real war, just a modern method of fighting….for the time being.

Sidaucity
Reader
Sidaucity

The only thing funnier and more ridiculous than this Kremlin Mafia propaganda bs is reading what idiotic Russian trolls like yourself post on these sites!!!

No wonder Putin and his mafia steal billions from you while you munch on rat burgers and palm oil cheese

mark
Reader
mark

You probably prefer the salt beef bagels they serve down the canteen at the hasbara factory.

Haltonbrat
Reader
Haltonbrat

You employed by the Integrity Initiative?

mark
Reader
mark

And I thought it was the Muricans who went in for Kraft rubber cheese, plastic Hershey chocolate, and burgers seasoned with rat droppings. Plus a nice garnish of glyphosate.

Wilmers31
Reader
Wilmers31

Paul Warnke who had been President Carter’s arms control chief:

“they cannot live without the Soviet threat. It’s been the dominant ruling element of their lives. If Gorbachev deprives them of an enemy, what can they do?”

(Mentioned in the Gorbachev bio by Doder & Branson)

I do not know what to do except for Russia to create distance to the US in all areas. I get a bit tired of everything being blamed on Russia and/or Putin. They must know precisely where MH370 went (Diego Garcia?) or they’d blame that on Russia/Putin, too.

Tutisicecream
Reader

Certainly this film focuses on the gaps in the JIT narrative. And there are many. The central theme of why would Ukraine, a potential suspect and perpetrator, be allowed to participate in the investigation is clearly raised.

The SBU’s fingerprints are all over this investigation along with Bidden’s and Brennen’s. The late great investigative reporter Robert Parry had speculated that it appeared the JIT investigation had been compromised in its early stages by the SBU’s vice service. This is the probable reason why the investigation could so clearly be manipulated and such a fantastical narrative being presented as fact.

Multiple failures of procedure appear to have occurred along with the reliance on virtual research by the dead cat bounce of the Atlantic Council, Bellingcat.

It is so sad that families affected by this heinous crime cannot reach closure because of the USA and its accomplices.

Rhys Jaggar
Reader
Rhys Jaggar

So:

1. Clear irrefutable evidence that the missile causing MH17 crash was owned by Ukraine for 30 years and had not gone unaccounted for at any time according to Ukrainian officials.
2. Ukrainian official lying about the status of radar capabilities on the day of the crash.
3. Irrefutable evidence of phone message manipulation to create evidence prepared in advance for false flag event. Just like 9/11 and the BBC, the miraculous terrorist passports etc etc.
4. Active prevention of victim representatives taking part in investigations, rendering the investigation free of victim interrogation.
5. Grossly unprofessional approach to securing a crime scene, recovering and relocating crime scene evidence and generally displaying the traits of those not wishing to discover the truth in a timely manner.
6. Clear evidence that a murderous false flag was used to justify punitive sanctions on Russia.
7. a Western bunch of intellectually indifferent leaders happy to pass off mass murder to justify self-harming sanctions ordered by the worlds greatest terrorist state.
8. A SE Asian State posing no threat to anyone subjected to genocidal action for the disgraceful crime of upholding the right of Palestinians to fair treatment.

Makes you really proud to be British, eh?

vexarb
Reader
vexarb

Dr. Elmar Giemulla, Dutch Prof.emeritus of Aviation Law, says in the interview: In Law the person who has been proved to lie once can have all other testimony rejected by the judge, just to make sure: lied once, might lie all the time.

“If, by some administrative cockup in Heaven, a good man were condemned to Hell — could his influence, working like the yeast in the dough over Eternity, by the End of Days turn Hell into Heaven?” — Query by an Orcadian poet whose name I forget.

However, the more prominent Dutch Lawyers, Police and Aviation Officials in this case, as David Macilwain reminds us below, are obviously bending Justice to fit a hidden agenda.

My sketch fr0m memory, Dodgy Doings of Netherlands Government: 1992 Covered up smuggled Chemical Warfare Substance (labelled “Perfume”) in wing tank of El Al crashed at Schiphol. 2003 Joined Bush/BLiar Coalition of the Killing against oil-rich Iraq. 2011 Joined NATZO terror against oil-and-gas-rich Syria. 2014-present Collaborated with Jewish-led neo-Nazi-supported NATZO-AZC junta in Ukraine to suppress evidence and frame Russia for downing of MH17

(Note: Russia is a thorn in NATZO’s flesh; not only by defeating a NATZO takeover of Syria but also by forestalling a NATZO takeover of Crimea; also Russia is rich in gas and oil but kicked out a lot of oily AZC carpetbaggers from the heady Yeltsin years. So the AZC has plenty of scores to settle with Russia. And the Zionazis have a score to settle with Malaysia for defending the Palestinians; Malaysia has lost _Two_ planes in suspicious circumstances, their routes deranged. I suggest this equation governs Dutch policy:

Netherlands Government = Royal Dutch Shell = Rothschild = Head of Anglo Zio Capitalism).

vexarb
Reader
vexarb

PS: Syria and Iraq are not only rich in oil and gas (which they, and not Shell or BP, own) but are also classed by Israel as “existential enemies of Israel” to be smashed into fragments; as is Iran; as are the Palestinians; and now maybe Malaysia for defending Palestinians?

PPS: and now is Corbyn likewise to be smashed into fragments for defending Palestinians?

Tim Jenkins
Reader
Tim Jenkins

As ever, excellent powers of recall & objectivity, Vexarb: –
I hope my mind remains as alert as yours, should I reach your ripe age …

I keep meaning to write to you, however the speed of events unfolding (as NATZO planned),
coupled with everyday life’s distractions, has hindered the conveyance of my gratitude, for your many poignant observations & reminders of events.

Regardless, thanks for your bold offer to communicate: on what represents also, my two most favoured ‘fields’ of interest, Science & Music: endless joy in discovering
‘Sinful Passion’. 🙂

A 6 Octave range is extraordinary in any culture and the composer is the guy in the white shirt, standing & applauding & clearly ‘begeistert’, however, if you watch till the very end, you’ll see a tiny young girl standing in the audience, wholly mesmerised by the experience that transcends any cultural differences, even language … that’s music & its’ power.

Point: NATZO bosses fear the power of music, more than most will ever comprehend, because it largely often expresses the power of Love over hate & bridges ‘divides’: divisions deliberately created to maintain & expand NATZO power & control structures.

Best wishes,
Tim

(sorry about the singular blip in the audio quality, towards the end, on this youtube version, but hey, perfection is always just a fleeting moment in time, & in the eye of the beholder 🙂

N.B. I struggle to think of a greater vocal talent than Dimash Kudaibergen, ever …
Maybe I exaggerate, let me know, you have the edge in years & wisdom, Vexarb,
hope you enjoy 🙂

vexarb
Reader
vexarb

Tim, the French film Farinelli blended male with female sounds to recreate the unique vocal range, richness and emotion of the castrato voice. I remember a female singer Yma Sumac (Amy Camus?) who created quite a sensation by starting way up in the stratosphere and swooping down really low. And Lauren Bacall once ended a show with Bing Crosby by taking the low notes.

Yes, music has little appeal to the dessicated goblins of NATZO — unless it marches to their hymn tune “Money and Gunpowder”.

Antonym
Reader
Antonym

The Dutch such great Israel supporters: how come so many Dutch Jews died during WW II?
Even to day many Dutch political parties are bleeding heart supporters for the Palestinians.

Sorry, this Ukraine script was written in back rooms in Langley, which is in the US of A.

mark
Reader
mark

… how come so many Dutch Jews died…..

Because they made such great soap and lamp shades.

vexarb
Reader
vexarb

@mark: ” how come so many Dutch Jews died”

A good question. I read the answer shortly after WW2. Dutch ID papers were meticulously designed so as to be very hard to falsify. Unlike Polish IDs, hence many Jews survived in Nazi-occupied Poland by purchasing false papers, even though Poland (especially the region now part of Ukraine) was more “Antisemitic” than Holland.

Nothing personal, just administration.

Haltonbrat
Reader
Haltonbrat

So if you oppose Zionist terrorism and genocide of Palestinians, you are “bleeding Heart”. Is that what they teach in Israel and Jewish schools?

Igor
Reader
Igor

There was no Final Solution.
Anne Frank is a myth.

Back room or a sub basement (the underworld) at Langley.

canarian mike
Reader
canarian mike

Don’t forget the Dutch Foreign Minister who claimed to have been in a meeting where Putin stated that he planned to annex Ukraine and the Baltis states into a Greater Russia.
Well, at least he had the decency to resign when it was established that no such meeting took placr.

Andy
Reader
Andy

One of the sleasiest propoganda pieces plastered all over the western media at the time was the image of the ‘Russian’ looter stealing childrens toys from the wreckage. Turns out when you watch the video it came from, you see him picking up the teddy(I think it was) making the sign of the cross and placing it back down. Prayer/empathic grief misrepresented as thievery to successfully whip up hatred among the audience. Pretty low and I find it pretty hard to believe the news organisation did not know what they were doing.

JudyJ
Reader
JudyJ

Andy

Yes, it was precisely that revelation (courtesy of RT) that brought it home to me how the mainstream media manipulates the narrative. They knew full well what they were doing. The full RT video showed dozens of international journalists and photographers congregated round the scene and it was they who asked the separatist, who was guarding the area behind a rope, to hold the toy up so they could see it and photograph it. The media didn’t only claim it to be looting, they said that the man was “clearly gloating over the fact that children had been on board, thereby proving the guilt of the separatists”. As you say, he did anything but; he was patently moved and respectful.

mark
Reader
mark

Another classic example is the footage of “Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 attack on the West Bank.”

These were Palestinians celebrating the release of a number of political prisoners from Zionist gaols.

mark
Reader
mark

Yes, when I saw that I realised this was just the lying fake MSM going into overdrive again.
What actually happened was a middle aged militia soldier picked up a cuddly toy from the ground, looked at it, then put it back gently, crossed himself, bowed his head, and respectfully took off his cap. A simple gesture of compassion and respect. He probably had children himself.

This was shown with the usual rabid lies of the Murdoch media.
“Putin’s thugs loot crash site,” and much else in a similar vein.
This was immediately parroted in Parliament by Gapes, Bradshaw, Bryant, and all their venomous ilk.

They do this all the time.
That’s why I say if they tell you it’s snowing at the North Pole, don’t believe them without going there to verify it yourself.
They do this all the time, the BBC, Channel 4, Sky News.
They showed all the devastation caused by genocidal Zionist terror bombing in Gaza, and lied that this was rocket damage in southern Israel.
They showed huge pro Assad demonstrations in Syria, and lied that they were ANTI Assad protests.
They showed violent demonstrations by Greeks in Athens protesting against EU austerity policies. They lied that these were anti Putin protests in Moscow.
They showed Indians in India celebrating some kind of religious festival. They tried to say these were Libyans celebrating the overthrow of Gaddafi.

There are literally hundreds of similar examples.
The MSM, and everyone who works for it, without a single exception, are poisonous lying scum.
You can’t believe a single word they say.

Tim Jenkins
Reader
Tim Jenkins

The Sleazy Thievery Corporations, steal many people’s conscious awareness: however, though tides turn slowly at first, the wills of steel unbent & stainless, flood rapidly ever faster over the barricades & man made obstacles to conscious awareness & progression are crumbling. GCHQ & Steele & Mifsud & Dearlove & Hannigan & Miller & Skripal, to mention but a few names, are gonna’ get flooded first and they will be frantically searching higher ground, right now: highly likely first of all in Shepherds Bush, however, if nobody is watching the BBC & digesting their pathetic lame excuses for hiding TREASON USA & UK State interference in the 2016 elections (NOT Russian), they will find themselves summoned and we know where they are ‘at’ …

all clearly demonstrable & perfectly legal ! ?

Get a life: BAN D’BBC, corporate mind control & State Governance with ‘D’ notices !
Cancel your TV licence to kill news & people in remote climes !

George
Reader
George

Wasn’t there a misappropriated video of celebrations after 9/11 i.e. where Muslims were supposedly shown cheering the New York collapses but were actually cheering something else? I tried to find some info on this but it seems that Trump brought the subject up again – and various outlets are reporting what he said but without clearing up the matter. How convenient.

Then there were images supposedly showing molested women from that Cologne “mass rape by immigrants” – and those images were taken from incidents elsewhere, some even staged for public information purposes.

Yeah – just take whatever from whatever. If it can be banged to fit into the latest bullshit, we’ll use it.

George
Reader
George

I see that Mark has already mentioned the misappropriated celebration video below.

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

The US regime masterminded this mass-murder in order to win the EU’s support for sanctions against Russia, and the EU knowingly complied, and continues to comply, with the American regime’s ongoing aggressions and lies against Russia. The 298 MH17 murder-victims are thus not only the US regime’s victims, but vicariously victims also of the EU — and not, at all, of Russia.
Russia was instead the real intended target of the possible Ukrainian Buk missile, and of the Ukrainian fighter-jets, that brought down the MH17. The MH17 victims were merely “collateral damages” in the US regime’s secret decades-long and ongoing anti-Russia war.
This is how today’s America competes in the world, by playing very dirty, and getting away with it, helped by its allies, which endorse, and join in, the US regime’s atrocities.
Now, which major news-media in The West will report these solidly documented facts? Isn’t it time, finally, that they should start doing that? Or, do they have no honour, at all?
___
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/12/31/mh17-turnabout-ukraine-guilt-now-proven.html

Einstein
Reader
Einstein

The answer is they have no honour at all.
They’re criminals who gained their leverage from the drug Prohibition and the millions of laundered cash that keeps the banks going.
With that financial power, they can buy politicians and hence the quangos they appoint, such as GCHQ’s 77th and people like WH Bonney.

Tim Jenkins
Reader
Tim Jenkins

Isn’t it time time somebody sued the BBC for disseminating propaganda, instead of waiting for Lord Justice Leveson: demand a refund for all your money wasted over the years …
especially since the 11th Sept. 2001 >>> i do hope nobody here has been paying the BBC, since then onwards, at the latest: otherwise, imho, your due for a refund 😉

Personally, I haven’t given them a penny since 1979 and even then I felt like my Dad was worthy of a refund … trade descriptions act: false fuckin’ pretences, you name it: why should I still have to explain to people that you do not need to listen to a word the BBC says & why ?

The Answer: apathy …

wardropper
Reader
wardropper

Wow… the Beeb still has supporters for its long-since corrupted political views…!
If it weren’t for its long association with David Attenborough, I would now, after decades of watching, want to see it sink without trace, along with Sky, CNN, and, well, we all know the infamous list here by now.

Perhaps soon we’ll have a “new” media outlet:
The Establishment Times Daily – (“Count on us to tell you what you are supposed to think”)
Trust me, it would have takers.

Jean Miller
Reader
Jean Miller

One of our healthiest decisions in the past year has been to cancel our tv licence. I would have liked to have conceded that there are some things I miss about msm and livestream tv, but that would be a downright lie.

Tim Jenkins
Reader
Tim Jenkins

I promise you, you will never regret that wise decision, Jean: actions speak louder than the BBC can ever manage … and the liberation of thought processes & choices in life, opens new doors & windows of opportunity, to be always learning & never standing still in a right royal mess of dog’s business …

You don’t need to speak Russian to understand the composer’s soulful joy (playing the piano) in participating in life & a live performance for the Kremlin, of his work …

William HBonney
Reader

Oh, for fuck’s sake is was the Russians, they thought it was a Ukrainian military transport, and shot it down, probably pissed on vodka.

MLS
Reader
MLS

Oh, for fuck’s sake, learn something about the basics of operating a BUK system before posting your silly, uninformed “look I’m just a no-nonsense bloke talking common sense” dismissals.

Your favourite propaganda outlets in the UK didn’t tell you, but using a BUK is not just a question of pointing it at the sky and pressing the button marked “fire”. You would have more chance of threading a needle blindfold than downing an airliner with a BUK while “pissed on vodka”. (You’re as narrowly racist as you are limitlessly arrogant aren’t you).

You also forgot to tell us why “the Russians” would want to do such a thing.

And why the Ukrainians wouldn’t.

See if you can reply without resorting to: a) racist stereotypes b) Bellingcat’s garbage c) Guardian/GCHQ memes.

SO.
Reader
SO.

Please MLS.

A Telar has no IFF antenna.

SO.
Reader
SO.

Okey dokey. Since you obviously know better than he does you’ll have no problem in telling everyone how a BUK complex acquires and processes IFF mode data.

Nikto Nigde
Reader
Nikto Nigde

I listened to the interview “Strelkov” (I. V. Girkin) gave to the international press after the shootdown. He essentially admitted by the tone of his denial (you’d have to watch, and understand Ukrainian or Russian, to know what I mean) that the aircraft was shot down by a breakaway crew working a hijacked UA Buk missile battery.

The shootdown was a mistake; the crew did indeed think they knocked down another Ukrainian troop transport. “Strelkov”, who claimed to be the “Donetsk Republic”‘s Defense Minister disappeared from public view right after the press conference, presumably because his boss was not best pleased with his gaffe.

JudyJ
Reader
JudyJ

“a hijacked UA Buk missile”

If this is so, how does it accord with the Ukrainian authorities’ vehement explanation that the Buk missile and launcher came over the border from Russia. Both stories can’t be true, if either of them is. If the equipment was “hijacked” as you say, why not say so?

SO.
Reader
SO.

That’s easy. Ukraine’s authorities were lying through their teeth and knew full well they’d lost 2 telar cos they were theirs.

By in and of itself that admission would be catastrophic to the fairy tale of noble ukraine defense but even worse those things are buk telar and they didn’t close civilian air corridors.

That makes them liable.

No one on earth is stupid enough to suggest a buk can’t kill aircraft at altitude but they knew they were there and cleared the air corridor anyway.

Basically the Ukraine gov knew the rebels had the system (cos it was their system), said the airspace was clear (when they knew it wasn’t) said they weren’t watching the airspace (you’re not that naive are you?) and they’ve got no record when there was 3 other units at all in the area.

Normally that would be about when Sherlock Holmes spots a suspicions pattern.

R.Eosa
Reader
R.Eosa

Link to the interview please.

eddie
Reader
eddie

Mr Putin’s flight across UA was roughly 30 minutes behind the doomed plane which Porky shot down. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
BTW, my Russian friends are non-drinkers, non-smokers, fiendishly well-educated..
How about you, little snot-nosed Billy the Kid?

William HBonney
Reader

On the evening of the crash, the LifeNews portal released a statement from the separatists saying that a “Ukrainian Air Force An-26 transport plane” had been shot down by a missile and crashed.[319] ITAR-TASS and RIA Novosti also reported that an An-26 had been shot down by the separatist militia near Torez at around 16:00 local time in what it described as “yet another victory of DPR self-defence”.[28][320] There was no evidence about altitude and weapons used.

Shortly after it became evident that the plane was a civilian one, the separatist media denied any involvement in the crash and possession of anti-aircraft missiles capable of reaching this altitude

A rather damming excerpt from the Wikipedia page on the crash. Feel free to try and refute it, but you’ll struggle.

Baron
Reader
Baron

Since when has Wiki been the well of truth, WHB?

Ever heard of cui bono? That’s what the wise Romans asked when crime was committed. It remains the guiding principal in today’s police work, too.

Enough time has passed since the MH17 crash to evaluate who benefitted, and who lost. Only an anencephalous fruitcake like you would conclude that Russia is in the latter category.

Do us a favour, please, find a busy road, go lie on it.

William HBonney
Reader

Since when has Wiki been the well of truth, WHB?

If you doubt it, refute it..

Crying like a bitch because the evidence doesn’t support your case simply isn’t cutting it.

Barovsky
Reader

You are a nasty piece of work Bonney

William HBonney
Reader

You are a nasty piece of work Bonney

Quid pro quo

Do us a favour, please, find a busy road, go lie on it.

Only an anencephalous fruitcake like you would conclude that Russia is in the latter category.

If you can’t take it, don’t give it.

Barovsky
Reader

Bonney, there’s nothing to take and I give you nothing.

eddie
Reader
eddie

I never struggle, little snot-nosed Billy the Kid..
Also rarely believe in links-from-hell.
My neighbors cat offered a link recently. Everybody has a link..

George
Reader
George

“probably pissed on vodka”

Your astute observations and conscientious detective work are truly inspiring, WHB.

William HBonney
Reader

Why do you think Aeroflot is dry?

George
Reader
George

You are an amazing guy WHB. To you, the whole world is a big Carry On movie. Americans are jovial buddies, the English play cricket, Scots swing sporrans and say “Och aye!”, the Tchermans are eeffil und you don’ vant to upset zem, zee French ride bikes decked wiz onions, the Chinese go around saying, “Ah Gwass-hopper, salutations!” etc.

William HBonney
Reader

Stereotypes always have some basis in fact. Prejudice is a tool we use to make sense of the world. Neither are ‘fair’, but without them, you couldn’t function.

I’ve no doubt there exist mindful, teetotal, vegan Russians, but take it from me, those you meet outside Russia conform to the stereotype, more than any other nationality.

George
Reader
George

Well pardon me, WHB, but I’m a bit wary about “taking it” from you.

Francis Lee
Reader
Francis Lee

I stand to be corrected but I am sure one of the western news agencies spokespersons mentioned the fact that a Russian-made Buk missile was used to shoot down the MH17 passenger airliner. So the manufacturer of the alleged Buk missile was therefore responsible for this outrage. This is of course a complete non sequitur – it does not follow.

The defense industry of Russia is a strategically important sector and a large employer in Russia. It is also a significant player in the global arms market, with Russian Federation being the second largest military products exported after the USA. Russia is the second largest conventional arms exporter after the United States, with $13.5 billion worth of exports in 2012. Combined, the US and Russia account for 58% of all major weapons exports.

Setting up an analogy during the ‘Troubles’ in Northern Ireland the Provisional IRA’s standard ambush weapon against the British forces was the US-made ArmaLite Rifle, AR-15 Colt’s Manufacturing Company. Was the United States therefore responsible for the deaths of British soldiers and policemen. O course not. Although it should be said that non-governmental agencies – particularly NORAID – were active in procuring these deadly weapons for the Provos in the United States. But that is another issue.

But if Russia is in the dock for selling weapons on world markets which might be used against other combatants and civilians the same charge can be made against the US – a fortiori. Funny we never got that line from the media during the Irish ‘Troubles’ No IRA ‘terrorists’ ambushing and killing British soldiers and policemen with American-made Armalite Rifles.

But of course it is the standard method of insinuation and associative reasoning that forms part of the propaganda routine. It goes like this: 1. Aircraft shot down by ‘pro-Russian terrorists’, 2. This was personally ordered by Putin, 3. Using a Russian-made missile. Ergo. Putin instructed Donbass ‘terrorists’ to shoot down the Airliner with Russian-made Buk missile. These are simply inferences without any solid facts other than the unfortunate fate of MH17. And of course there is then the little matter of motive. Explain why Putin regarded the shooting down of a civilian airliner was in any way in the interests of the Russian Federation. The whole brouhaha surrounding this episode is a frankly infantile manipulation.

”This reduced sense of responsibility and the absence of effective volition in turn explain the ordinary citizen’s ignorance and lack of judgement in matters of domestic and foreign policy which if anything are more shocking in the case of educated people and of people who are successfully active in non-political than it is with uneducated people in humble situations. Information is plentiful and readily available. But this does not seem to make any difference.”

(J.A.Schumpeter – Two Concept of Democracy – Socialism, Capitalism, and Democracy.)

This is the new battlefield in WW3

William HBonney
Reader

Explain why Putin regarded the shooting down of a civilian airliner was in any way in the interests of the Russian Federation.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting they deliberately targeted an airliner, they were after Ukrainian military transports, but were rather reckless with targeting.

JudyJ
Reader
JudyJ

In that case would you care to explain how they came to have used a missile which was officially documented as belonging to the Ukrainians? When asked by the JIT early on in the investigation whether any of their BUK missiles were unaccounted for, they assured the investigators that none was. So they weren’t subsequently in a position to claim the missile had been stolen from them.

This should have proved to be not a little embarrassing for the Ukrainians when the Russians presented the JIT last autumn with documentation proving that the missile belonged to Ukraine. Needless to say the JIT appear to have chosen to ignore the Russian evidence. I think it goes without saying that had the JIT ignored it because they believed the Russian documentation was forged or tampered with the western msm would have been all over it. The JIT’s and the msm’s silence on the matter speaks volumes.

https://www.rt.com/news/438596-mh17-downing-russian-briefing/

SO.
Reader
SO.

Ukraine lost 2 telar and an llu to the rebels from luhansk about a week before the shootdown. They were left in a garage repair yard. The LLU had a broken crane. 1 telar had been set on fire (cabin was cooked) and the last a bad gear box.

All of them were fully loaded so that’s 12 missiles. (4 on the llu)

The rebels repaired 312 (or to give it’s real name: Area Defence Sector 3 Battalion 1 Unit 2) by replacing it’s gearbox after which they had a perfectly functional AA system.

Problem is a 9A310 telar is dumber than a rock. All it sees are targets. It doesn’t do friendly at all.

So… rebels captured enough hardware to build themselves a missile launcher and it done what it said on the tin.

Ukraine official knew they had it and hid the fact and kept the air corridor open.

Its a Ukraine serial cos it’s a Ukraine system they lost.

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

Link to the information please.

SO.
Reader
SO.

Sorry Maggie.

Unfortunately the media doesn’t record what it doesn’t gain from so the link is my memory. I remember the rebels capturing the units and videos posted at the time cos they’re M1-telars. (I commented they’d be a real game changer at the time cos I knew what they were) but I can’t give you ‘evidence’.

Here’s a question might help you though. (no really).

Even after all of this nonsense why has no one (including the media) shown interest in how that missile system works?

vexarb
Reader
vexarb

SO, I see you harping on this one string: “Yes, it _was_ an Ukie BUK that shot down MH17 but it was one we had stolen by the Ruskie side.”

Now try the other string: “Yes, they _were_ two Ukie MIGs that shot down MH17 but they were two we had stolen by the Ruskie side.”

I’m puzzled: was it a Ukie BUK ? was it two Ukie MIGs? or was it all three attacking together which brought down MH17?

Whatever the facts in this case may be, the AZC regimes in Holland, UK, U$ and Oz are surely not trying to bring them to light. Ukie veto, forsooth!

From good old Auntie’s second “Building 7 Moment” (Link by James Bate above): “…BBC 23 July 2014 report, which presents several eyewitnesses, interviewed separately as individuals, not as a group, and yet all of whose testimonies … report having observed … at least one military jet rising toward the airliner just before it came down.

In other words: it is clear that BBC had yanked this report because it didn’t confirm the West’s story-line, which says that Ukrainian pro-Russian separatists had fired a “Buk” ground-based missile at the airliner, thinking that the civilian plane was a Ukrainian Government war-plane about to bomb them and their families. But, first of all, the Ukrainian Government was virtually admitting there that they were bombing these villagers, which means that they were perpetrating an ethnic cleansing operation there, which indeed that Government was doing; but, secondly, the Ukrainian Government’s statement also acknowledged that if the event had happened in that way, it would have been unintentional, a tragic accident on the part of the rebels there. (The JIT’s line now is that it was instead an outright Russian attack against the MH17.)”

Jen
Reader
Jen

You have to explain how a bunch of farmers, coal miners and ordinary town and village workers had the skills not only to repair a transporter erector launcher / radar system and an Ilu loading system but also had the skills to operate these systems and co-ordinate their activities.

To be able to spot, track and pin a target on radar and send that information to the people in charge of launching the missile – all while the target is flying at close to 1,000 km/h – kind of needs very specialised training and at least one year’s worth of experience in radar work before the technician can be allowed to do such work.

Nikto Nigde
Reader
Nikto Nigde

Donetsk and Luhansk are also in Ukraina and always have been. But they were hijacked and are now more or less controlled by ethnic Russians nevertheless. So too the BUK battery: it never left Ukraina, but was hijacked by ethnic-Russian would-be separatists.

JudyJ
Reader
JudyJ

So the JIT receive evidence from the Russians that the BUK in question was registered to the Ukrainians. It’s not rocket science to assume that in a formal investigation the next step would be for the JIT to ask the Ukrainian authorities for their comments on said evidence. Presumably they either refute the Russian evidence with their own evidence, or they admit to the JIT that the hardware had actually been stolen/hijacked and they’d misled the JIT for their own reasons.

You can be sure that if either of these scenarios applies we (the public) would know about it, and should do if the JIT investigations are to be considered honourable and transparent. So why has nothing whatsoever been reported on this by the JIT or by the mainstream media?

Of course there is a third option as to the reaction of the JIT (including the Ukrainian representation on the JIT, let’s not forget) and the Ukrainian authorities – they squirm but recognise that they haven’t got a leg to stand on so decide that turning a blind eye and complete silence is the best course of action. They know they can get away with this because nobody in ‘the West’ is going to challenge a position which sustains the narrative of Russian culpability.

I know which option I think is most likely.

Francis Lee
Reader
Francis Lee

Aha, we’ve shifted the basis of our argument haven’t we. Now you seem to be arguing that it was all an unfortunate accident. So it wasn’t Putin’s idea to shoot down an airliner full of tourists on their way to a holiday in Thailand or Thais going home. No of course it wasn’t. So a step backward in the argument was necessary.

But I am still wondering about the absence of any hard facts which might substantiate your rather wild supposition but I still don’t see any. This incident took place in the conflict zone an area which air Traffic Control in Kiev deliberately directed the MH17 to fly. An accident, an oversight, maybe, maybe not. But to make definitive judgements about what actually happened when there is no supporting evidence, and if such evidence exists it might be very embarrassing to certain parties if such evidence ever came to light.

This is turning out to be yet another of the Kennedy assassination, 9/11 Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X mysteries.

SO.
Reader
SO.

When’s the last time you ever heard of the russians deploying a 9a310 with no tube arm or snowdrift?

9A310M can’t even do IFF.

MLS
Reader
MLS

Oh for fuck’s sake. All planes have transponders that beam out their flight data and ID. A BUK system would as a matter of course identify the type of plane it was tracking. Simply could not avoid doing so.

If a BUK was used to shoot down MH17, whoever did it knew absolutely and undeniably what they were doing.

mark
Reader
mark

In that case the US must have known what it was doing when it shot down an Iranian airliner with 290 people on board.

SO.
Reader
SO.

The Vincennes?

Of course they knew what it was.

It’s a fucken Ticonderoga. Of course it bloody system told them what it was.

You’re not seriously trying to compare an AN/SPG-system with a single unit buk firedome are you?

Why would anyone do that?

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

THIS EVIDENCE IS ACCEPTED BY BOTH SIDES. 
But it still remains effectively hidden from the publics in the United States and its allied countries. (The present news-report, which is the first ever to present this entire case, is submitted to all news-media in English-speaking countries, so that any of them that wishes to provide its audience access to this uncontested and conclusive evidence in the MH17 case can do so, by publishing this article. Any of them that won’t, don’t want their audience to have access to the conclusive evidence in this case, because this article is being made available to all of them to publish, free of charge; so, there is no other reason not to publish it.)
The complete evidence will be described, and all of the conclusive evidence is linked-to, proving who perpetrated, and who demanded, the shoot-down on 17 July 2014 of the Malaysian airliner MH17.
This article will start by demonstrating the most important thing, and will demonstrate it by means of links to the most conclusive evidence of all. This is the evidence which absolutely proves that the official Netherlands-headed investigation into this matter is an intentional and utter fraud AND MASS MURDER— a fraud which has already been conclusively answered and exposed by the Russian Government.
This evidence, of the Netherlands team’s fraudulence, carries the investigation a large part of the way toward its ultimate conclusion, regarding whom the person was who had demanded Ukraine to commit this crime.. Incidentally, the Netherlands Government had partially funded the coup that in February 2014 overturned Ukraine’s Government and installed the new regime, which regime is allied with the United States Government and actually perpetrated the MH17 shoot-down. The Government of Netherlands is not a neutral in this case that it is judging. It had helped install the present regime in Ukraine. In fact, as you can see here, Netherlands’ Government had been the largest single contributor to Ukraine’s Hromadske TV, which was propagandizing to exterminate the residents in Ukraine’s former Donbass region, which breakaway region had voted over 90% for Ukraine’s Democratically elected President, whom Obama’s coup had just overthrown…
Most readers who click onto the links GIVEN IN THIS ARTICLE will be shocked. What will shock them is the evidence, because it has not been published in The West (except summarized in less than a half-dozen obscure news-media — and, even there, generally not documented, such as it is here).
(..)
Russia’s response documented beyond any question, at all, that this airliner was shot down by the Ukrainian Government, and that Western (i.e., US-allied) ‘news’media have been and are covering-up this crucial historical fact and The West’s still-ongoing lies about the downing of MH17.
Those lies are the basis of US and EU anti-Russia sanctions, which remain in effect despite the basis for those sanctions having been exposed unequivocally, on September 17th, to be based on lies. Thus, continuing to hide those lies is crucial to the liars.
(..)
The reader can see and consider here all of the conclusive evidence in the MH17 case — it can be reached via the present article’s links. Unlike the ‘news’-reports in The West’s ‘news’-media, the presentation here is not presuming readers’ trust, but is instead providing to all readers access to the actual evidence — evidence that is accepted by both sides. That’s what the links here are for: examination by any skeptics.
Skepticism in judging anything is not only good; it is essential to justice. Trust should never be given; it should only be earned. Otherwise, no democracy can function. Only dictatorship can function in a country that’s controlled by lies, and by liars.
Liars are believed by people who have faith in them. Thus, faith in anything or anyone can poison judgment. The way to test the case that is presented here is to click onto a link wherever one wants to see, and examine the evidence.
Without examining (usually by spot-checking) ALL the evidence, no reader can intelligently judge any case. Dictatorship is almost inevitable in a country where spot-checking of the actual evidence isn’t the norm.
Most ‘news’-media don’t even enable such spot-checking. This is why ‘news’-media are so often actually propaganda-media instead.

So, here’s the complete MH17 case, for any reader to judge:

The JIT is convinced that the BUK-TELAR [missile and launcher] that was used to down MH17, originates from the 53rd Anti Aircraft Missile brigade (hereinafter 53rd brigade), a unit of the Russian army from Kursk in the Russian Federation. … This fingerprint has been compared with numerous images of BUK-TELARS, both Ukrainian and Russian ones. The only BUK-TELAR on which this combination of characteristics also was found, is a BUK-TELAR that was recorded several times when it joined a convoy of the 53rd brigade on 23 – 25 June 2014.
Consequently, the JIT presumes that within the 53rd brigade and within the circle around it, people have knowledge about the operation in which that particular BUK-TELAR was deployed. … Already in September 2016, the JIT disclosed that MH17 was downed with a BUK missile of the 9M38 series. …
The missile engine’s casing shows the number ”9 д 1318869032.”
(..)
Russia, during the intervening months after the JIT’s May 24th presentation, had tracked down all of those serial numbers, 8868720, and 1318869032, and 9M38, and found (as you can see there by clicking on each, especially onto the “Briefing” itself) that after the acquisition of the launcher and missile, by Ukraine in 1986, from Russia, that missile and its launcher had always, and constantly since their transfer to Ukraine in 1986, remained in Ukraine, and never again were located in Russia. So: if the JIT’s supplied evidence is authentic — which the Ukrainian team asserts it to be — then it outright convicts Ukraine. This is an evidentiary checkmate, against the Ukrainian side.
(..)

OPEN THE LINK TROLL and click on all the links. The proof is IRREFUTABLE. Ukraine/CIA did it.
___
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/12/31/mh17-turnabout-ukraine-guilt-now-proven.html

George
Reader
George

Nice dodge.

William HBonney
Reader

http://www.strategic-culture.org is a Russian propaganda site.

E.Rosa
Reader
E.Rosa

And you are a paid troll. That much is clear.

William HBonney
Reader

And you are a paid troll. That much is clear.

Oh, the irony, from someone debating a point so ludicrous, it can only be salaried..

E.Rosa
Reader
E.Rosa

Answered like a true troll.

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

Boo Hoo… SO WHAT!!!

William HBonney
Reader

Boo Hoo… SO WHAT!!!

So you admit to being a Russian propagandist? Does it pay well?

mark
Reader
mark

The Ukrainians shot down a Russian airliner full of Russian and Israeli Jews using a BUK missile. This is an established fact. They were just firing off missiles like cowboys during army exercises. This was around 2004. About 80 were killed.

The Ukies have form for this kind of thing.

Grafter
Reader
Grafter

The BBC….inveterate liars and foremost broadcasting propagandists. Video and sound recording evidence altered and suppressed amid the unseemly haste to blame the evil Russians. When governments in the West support a near fascist Ukrainian regime democracy becomes the first casualty and we are all in trouble.

idiot savant
Reader
idiot savant

Isn’t it ironic that RT have been fined £200.000 by Ofcom for “failing to be impartial” when the BBC can broadcast a completely one-sided defamation of Jeremy Corbyn on their recent “Panorama” programme and walk away scot-free. Doubtless, my comment here will attract a stupid response from others who blindly peddle their Russophobia narratives.

ZigZagWanderer
Reader
ZigZagWanderer

The filmed report by a BBC correspondent from the scene shortly after this event supports the statements made (in this video) by the witnesses on the ground.
Very few people saw this report as the BBC removed it from their website a few hours after it was published.
I watched it twice on the day but then found it had been removed because it ” didn’t meet BBC editorial standards”.

It has remained buried ever since.

james bate
Reader
james bate
Tim Jenkins
Reader
Tim Jenkins

Excellent: Thanks james

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

Zigzag wanderer…. Where is the link????

Barovsky
Reader

For those who are interested, I’ve compiled a list of links to stories on MH-17, 2014 – 2019

https://williambowles.info/the-file-on-flight-mh17-july-2014-2019/

Maggie
Reader
Maggie

Every one a gem, thanks Barovsky

David Macilwain
Reader
David Macilwain

Just so as to see what the actual evidence is up against, this article today from a Dutch lawyer, posted by the Australian Institute for International Affairs, sets out the plan to prosecute men who had no involvement in a crime which didn’t take place as described, who won’t be present, and who have already been found guilty by the Kangaroo court operated by the people who actually committed the crime. This is good enough for Australia.
https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/prosecuting-mh17-the-dutch-and-australian-move-on-russias-state-responsibility/

Tim Jenkins
Reader
Tim Jenkins

Bloody criminal Lawyers spongeing on grief, gotta’ make money regardless of morals …

“For legal analysis on MH17, see Marieke de Hoon’s publications titled … (blah blah)”

Somebody should present this woman in Amsterdam, with the voice recording analysis, just for starters and then make her watch the whole of this video, whilst picking through her proposals for evidence, Face2face, all with a video recording all parties present and perhaps also with the journalists who made such a fine preliminary presentation, above. What could Marieke d’Hoon possibly have to fear ? and any Lawyer would have a natural active interest professionally in any details of a defendants case to be submitted in court …

Sounds like a perfect case for Robert d’Mule Mueller to preside over, as ‘Special Council’, hell, he even sounds dumb double dutch enough when giving testimony, these days, to consider taking the case … 😉

Antonym
Reader
Antonym

Good documentary about the MH17 by a guy looking for truth beyond the half baked official story.

It was Dutch PM Mark Rutte who supported extremely early Ukrainian leads, no doubt following Langley hints and nudges. This project was fatally flawed the minute suspect Russia was rejected from the “Joint” Investigation Team to be replaced by NATO member Belgium which had no actual victims, and giving the suspect Ukraine a lead role as public prosecutor. Possibly “joint” stands for something they were smoking.
Rutte pressured all Dutch underlings in compliance with his take after identifying with the premeditated conclusion. Bonus: plead Dutch authorities free from blame for sending their citizens over a zone were other planes had been downed with weapons.