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Guardian Attacks Epstein “Conspiracy Theories” The mainstream narrative is shaping up – a story of suicide, neglect and tragic victims

Kit Knightly

In two different opinion pieces The Guardian has made its position on the alleged death of Jeffrey Epstein clear – he “probably” committed suicide.

The first, titled Epstein conspiracy theories are farfetched – but can you blame people?, takes the position that although “conspiracy theories” about Epstein’s apparent suicide are “understandable”, there’s no evidence to support them.

Rather, the author endorses the slowly coalescing official narrative. Namely that of complete, systemic incompetence:

The official explanation for Epstein’s death comes down to rank incompetence. And it’s probably true.

A short-sighted attitude to take, which totally ignores a cardinal rule when dealing with state agencies: They will only admit to incompetence if the truth is worse.

The author also attempts to undermine the “conspiracy theories” by pointing out that Epstein was a potential threat to important figures on both sides of the political divide:

Online, conspiracy theories now abound. Observers suggest Epstein was killed by one of the men who may have been implicated in his crimes – maybe Bill Clinton, according to the fringe right, or maybe Donald Trump, according to the fringe left.

An argument rather akin to saying “he can’t possibly have been murdered, because there were too many people who wanted him dead. There are SO MANY plausible suspects, that the only reasonable explanation is that…none of them did it.”

(Also, note the word “fringe”, a manipulative use of language designed to discredit an idea without engaging with it rationally)

However, this article – although laced through with traditional mainstream rhetoric about “conspiracy theories” – at least leaves them room to exist. The Guardian’s other Epstein piece is rather less understanding:

Epstein’s death is a victory for misogyny: it denies accusers the justice they deserve

Blares the headline (further evidence that very few people at the Guardian seem to know what “misogyny” really means), before continuing by taking aim at conspiracy theories several times in the text.

Firstly, in an almost word-for-word quote from the previous column:

Commentators on the right speculated that he had been murdered by powerful liberals; those on the left speculated that he had been murdered by powerful conservatives. These theories were not responses to evidence, of which there is little

And then later claiming conspiracy theories not only “factually wrong” (something no one can know at this stage)…

The speculations may well be factually wrong – criminal justice experts have pointed out that inmate suicides are common, and that those detained in federal jails often face startling neglect

…but also attempting to Mrs Lovejoy the public by claiming “conspiracy theories” are actually harmful:

the positing of these conspiracy theories is unhelpful, distracting from the important injustice that has been done to Epstein’s victims.

Declaring seeking the truth to be somehow unfair to the victims is a classic trope, deployed most famously against 9/11 Truthers, but common after many such incidents.

There’s also this sentence…

The conspiracy theorists also risk undermining efforts to bring Epstein’s co-conspirators to account: their suggestions that the financier was killed to cover up the rapes and assaults of powerful men who would rather he be shut up could lend suspicion to anyone pointing out the breadth of his alleged pedophilia ring, giving those who want continued investigations of men such as Dershowitz, Pritzker and Dubin the aura of a maniac in a tinfoil hat.

Which, I’ll be honest, I simply don’t understand.

I think she’s arguing that “conspiracy theorists” talking about “conspiracy theories” might discredit the very real possibility there was an actual conspiracy.

If that’s what she means – because I honestly do not understand the words – well, that’s obviously just crazy. You can’t argue we shouldn’t talk about conspiracy theories, just in case there’s a conspiracy fact.

That’s the attitude of a person so brainwashed by the idea that “conspiracy theorist = crazy person” that they can no longer think in a straight line. Total cognitive dissonance.

The articles are different in tone, but they are united in purpose, and they each hit the same three key points:

  1. Epstein “probably” killed himself. After all, inmates commit suicide all the time.
  2. Conspiracy theories might look reasonable, but they are factually incorrect and morally harmful.
  3. The real tragedy here is the poor victims who will go unavenged. We should all focus on that, not investigating the potential murder.

All this serves to demonstrate – for about the millionth time – the entire purpose of outrage culture and identity politics. Fear of being offensive used to control a conversation and dictate narrative: Don’t talk about Epstein being murdered, don’t even think about it. If you do, you’re a misogynist.

Kit Knightly is co-editor of OffGuardian. The Guardian banned him from commenting. Twice. He used to write for fun, but now he's forced to out of a near-permanent sense of outrage.

Filed under: Epstein Suicide, featured, latest, On Guardian

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Kit Knightly is co-editor of OffGuardian. The Guardian banned him from commenting. Twice. He used to write for fun, but now he's forced to out of a near-permanent sense of outrage.

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Jihadi Colin

“Alleged death”? That’s only if one supposes that he’s not dead. I know there’s a line of opinion claiming that he was whisked away to the zionist entity, but there’s only one person needing to identify him there to sink the relocation effort. He is and was far safer dead.

GRAFT
GRAFT

Good to see the 77th brigade are here! People come here spouting generally Lefty thins then when the big stories come they show their true hand of cards! Lundiel,Bonney and antonym are 3 who would not surprise me if they’re trolls for the 77th brigade

mark
mark

If they’re the best 77 Bde can come up with, maybe they should put them in charge of the latrines.

lysias
lysias

For information about Moira Donegan, the author of the second Guardian piece, look at the Wikipedia entry on “Shitty Media Men”.

davemass
davemass

This is like ‘Murder on the Orient Express’.
All the guys fearing exposure, all chipped in to get Epstein.
No CCTV?! Another ex-inmate says sheets made of paper-strength,
Ceilings 8 foot up, no attach points…
And Assange is next…

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

OK, But what about incompetence? This is the US prison system. It would be mad to assume they werent totally underfunded aqnd incompetent. I don’t doubt a cover up, but I doubt the conspiracy. Everyone knows the prison system in the US isnt fit for purpose, there are movies and books galore about it. The prison system is one massive conspiracy to destroy men! Epstein is no differnt, hes just rich and famous, and he could have exposede people. Sending him to a shitty prison where people kill themselves isnt a conspiracy, it would be a conspriacy NOT to!

tresmegistus
tresmegistus

spot on. and one cannot have a conspiracy theory. it is an oxymoron. it is either a conspiracy or a theory i.e. hypothetical. the guardian should stop spouting this ninsense.

mark
mark

Maybe they’ll give him Epstein’s old cell.

Brian Harry
Brian Harry

Admin. I made a General statement about Hebrews “Seeming” to have a bent towards paedophilia, and have been denied to right of reply. I did not make a “SWEEPING WHOLESALE DENUNCIATION” of an Ethnic group. I was commenting about the Epstein case which has opened a very nasty story about this guy and his ability to provide Many “Rich and Famous” elites to access Child sex, on a large scale.
You opened the discussion, and I made a general comment, not only about Paedophilia, but on the ability of this particular group to get away with virtual impunity of widespread child abuse.
What is wrong with that???

Admin
Admin
Admin

If you can’t see that a “general statement” suggesting “Hebrews” “seem” to “have a bent toward pedophilia” is wildly racist we can’t help you. But don’t claim you were denied a right to reply when here you are replying.

We would appreciate if this discussion ended here tho. It’s not helpful or informative for anyone else.

Brian Harry
Brian Harry

“SEEM”

Effervescent
Effervescent

It’s a well known fact if you add the word ‘seem’ to a piece of racial stereotyping that makes it not racist. Try it.

‘Black people SEEM to be more inclined to steal televisions’.

‘Russians SEEM to be drunk most of the time’

‘Native Americans SEEM to be slackass wasters’

Yup, not racist at all.

Mister Bump
Mister Bump

I don’t know what makes me sadder for you. the racism you can’t see or the stupidity everyone else can.

mark
mark

Because it’s true, you stupid goy! The truth is anti semitic!! Can’t you understand that?
Let the Talmud explain it to you.

“A baby girl may be enjoyed by a Jew if she is less than three years old, it is nothing, and akin to a finger being poked in her eye.”
“Sexual relations with a boy cannot occur if the child is less than 9 years old.”

Hope that clears it up, goy.

Brian Harry
Brian Harry

I’m guessing that you made that ‘attack’ just to show that “anti-Goy-ism” is perfectly acceptable, but criticism of Semites is ‘Verboten’…….Thanks for your support….

Brian Harry
Brian Harry

Google Search Haaretz. “Israel became a haven for suspected paedophiles”

Maggie
Maggie

PLEASE.. provide the link.
https://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/.premium-there-s-a-hole-in-the-system-israel-became-a-haven-for-jewish-sex-offenders-1.7070290

https://www.timesofisrael.com/diaspora-pedophiles-increasingly-use-israel-as-a-haven-activists-charge/

This doesn’t mean that ”Hebrews have a particular bent to paedophilia” but that ‘some’ Hebrews have been outed and prosecuted. Just as thousands of Catholic priests have been outed, and NOT prosecuted……

George Cornell
George Cornell

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/08/11/us/11reuters-people-jeffrey-epstein-nyt.html

Note how the Times quoted the medical examiner as being “confident” it was a suicide in its header. But that is not what she said nor is it remotely what she says now. Wtf is going on there. The Times has been unseemly in their haste to pronounce this a suicide, and to repeat it over and over, first within 3 hours of his being found. But how did they know and why were they so cocksure?

0use4msm
0use4msm

After Epstein’s death, Ghislaine Maxwell was spotted in an L.A. burger joint reading “The Book of Honor : The Secret Lives and Deaths of CIA Operatives“, a book depicting various “heroic martyrs” that worked and died in service of the CIA. Makes you wonder if that’s how Maxwell saw Epstein, considering she had more intimate knowledge about his motives than the general public.

lundiel
lundiel

I had a look at the reviews and this one caught my eye:

A good friend of mine died recently under very tragic circumstances. Some of us saw it coming for quite a while but it was still a huge shock when it finally happened. I picked up this book at the advice of a friend and absolutely couldn’t put it down. I’d read it walking the dog, getting fast food, or even just lounging around the house. It helped me realized that my friend really believed in something, and that giving your life for the CIA, NSA, FBI, Mossad, or other intelligence agency is truly a higher calling and not something to mourn. A wholehearted recommendation.

Could have been written by our own WHB. Seriously though, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Epstein and Maxwell worked for the CIA as well as themselves.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

So the first public appearance of the alleged mossad connected grooming madam is reading a book about being a CIA agent risking death. LOL

Pimping is a dangerous business i heard. Double LOL

Brian Harry
Brian Harry

I used to have great respect for The Guardian, mainly because I tended to learn MORE from the readers comments, than the articles. Sadly, now the “No comments allowed” policy has reduce it to the ‘status’ of NewsCorp(if that is possible).
The Elites who control the Western MSM couldn’t care less what I think, and will continue to dish up TRASH that would even make Joseph Goebbels blush with embarrassment, because there are enough young, gullible people around who haven’t worked out yet, how this World really works.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

The Guardian comments under Steve Bell’s cartoon are telling overnight! The ‘Guardian Picks’ are not the top voted.
The 77th appeared to have abandoned attack there until this morning, there were only Tory/NuLabInc types there. Most Lib types seem to have been shocked by Swinson and the recent turncoat arriviste MP’s into their ranks and have woken up to being sold a pig in a poke by the LibDem leadership AGAIN!

The ‘coup’ as a wildebeast … sorry, GNU, under the guidance of Anyone But Corbyn, is faltering.

lundiel
lundiel

The most picks, the highest votes and one of the first to comment on the cartoon thread always VB used to be by a man called fishgirl23. He writes sweary lists of the failings of Tory politicians gleaned from the Graun and other MSM outlets and people reply with comments like “I love you fishgirl23”, “You should stand as an MP”, “You should be a journalist”, “You should write a book” etc. He was a Corbyn follower then became a remain supporter, I imagine he’s tuning in to a Swinson fan now, but only if Bell/Rowson and his followers do first.

Maggie
Maggie

I used to have great respect for Off Guardian, because all commenters were welcomed… However it appears that there is a Gremlin in the works, which allows votes to be registered against readers who have NOT voted…
Plus the Admin keeps sticking his oar in, and deciding how far people can go?
Without even noticing that we the readers will moderate the people who want to be idiots.
When what Admin should be doing is blocking the trolls. IMHO. For what it is worth?
The question I would like answering is WHO is the Admin?

Admin
Admin
Admin

Your hostile harassing tone is inappropriate. The names of both admins are available on the front page.

Hello. This is Sophie.

We have already patiently and politely explained to you NUMEROUS TIMES how the votes work. They are not broken, there is no malfeasance.Please try to comprehend this and move on.

We intervene as necessary to keep the conversations functional. We don’t need your permission or approval to do so. If you think you can find a less censored site anywhere else please feel free to try. You won’t succeed, and if you are as hostile to the admins on other sites as you are here you will probably be banned.

Thanks for making my (volunteer) working day just a little longer and more unpleasant.

The Thinker
The Thinker

Trying for a third time as I have replied on two occasions using the reply button and my comments are visible for a moment and then gone.

@Maggie queried if there was any possible connections between the Awan’s and JE

I saw this interview with Rosiat Link below (I have not read the book as yet) – and it’s suggested that the common denominator is blackmail. I wonder, when the Awan’s stole all the data at Congress and of various officials and continued to spy on them even after they had fled the Country.

If Pakistani Intel or Awan went through the tons of Data they might have found connections with Epstein on individuals, perhaps also Blackmail material that he already had over them. Not only would they know who JE was blackmailing and with what, now possibly Pakistani Intel also have it?

Some people out there have a lot of concerning info on a lot of very concerned people !

https://m.theepochtimes.com/what-the-jeffrey-epstein-imran-awan-jackson-cosko-scandals-might-have-in-common-luke-rosiak_3004594.html

mark
mark

Epstein is the product of his society and his times, like Trump, Clinton, Blair, and countless others of their ilk.
You have to expect very sick, diseased societies, to vomit up people like Epstein, Clinton and Trump.
Epstein, Trump, Clinton and their kind, are like poisonous maggots feeding off a corpse in an advanced state of decay.

lundiel
lundiel

He was only providing a service just as people have always provided for the rich and famous. All the talk is about him (evil paedo) and ‘victims’ who were neither victims nor children.

lundiel
lundiel

I should have added, those who profited from this enterprise have escaped censure. Epstein is the dead evil paedo, in a way that Michael Jackson never was, the “victims” will get compensated again for services they rendered willingly and the guilty can hide behind privacy.

mark
mark

14 year olds. Like the willing servants of the Rotherham grooming gangs.
They were well paid for their services with chips, booze and drugs.

George Cornell
George Cornell

You’re in a small minority on this one lundiel. I suppose you also approve of Dershowitz’s efforts to get the legal age of consent lowered. You know, the same one who the non-victims as you see them, say they were ordered to have sex with him.

Check out this link. https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/596140/
When you are gainsaid by the Atlantic, it is time to rethink your position, morally and legally.
And don’t apply for any babysitting posts. They don’t come any more vulnerable than the runaways from broken homes that Maxwell procured in shopping malls.

lundiel
lundiel

Oh come on. the pair of you sound like outraged tabloid journalists shaking an angry stick at a rabid dog. I just want to add a bit of reality to the undiluted rage at procurers. And I speak as a woman who went through the care system, was adopted and ran away at 14. Possibly I was abused, possibly I also took what advantage I could get in difficult circumstances.
I was merely making the point that those who should be in the dock never are.

andyoldlabour
andyoldlabour

Lundiel, Epstein is just the white, educated, rich version of the Asian grooming gangs in the UK. There is no difference, a 14 year old is a child, what happened was child abuse.

lundiel
lundiel

All I can say is, I never felt like a child at 14 and I certainly felt like an adult at 17. I don’t condone lowering the age of consent. However, we treat teenagers as adults/children depending on what we want from them.
Our extreme anger over the Asian grooming gangs is weakened/politicised by our silence over the same thing happening to girls in some street gangs. We are disgusted by the thought of Asian men, in particular, abusing our children is why I never jumped on that political bandwagon. An abuser is an abuser.

andyoldlabour
andyoldlabour

Lundiel, I think you are wrong, because the abuse by the Pakistani grooming gangs was/is on a massive scale, and if it was carried out by white, English men I would be just as enraged – but it isn’t.
I am married to an Asian and have Asian relations.

lundiel
lundiel

You don’t think it happens to girls in street gangs? It does and rap music made it acceptable behaviour for a while. However, I think that Pakistani culture has led to the abuse of white girls and that it’s more of a problem than the abuse young women suffer at the hands of white/afro Carribbean/African/East European gangs. But this thread isn’t about that and I shouldn’t have to face interrogation about my political Stance on cultural issues because I commented that the guilty always escape censure in these matters.

Antonym
Antonym

Asian grooming gangs: sounds like Korean dog owner clubs. Stop hiding the true culprits of this unfathomable crime “British”-Pakistani Muslims
or all Asians (>4,5 billion) will start calling will start calling Nazis European sports clubs.

andyoldlabour
andyoldlabour

I would agree that British Pakistani Muslims is more accurate, but I would like to drop the “British” part, because they hate us, they hate our religion or more probably our lack of it, they target young British girls because they regard them as “Kaffirs”, they make no effort to integrate into British society.

George Cornell
George Cornell

Sorry to hear of your experience. You must be resilient and your comments about who gets the stick ring true. Epstein was in the dock and his customers got him off. That’s why this case is a type of watershed. He doesn’t need protection from you on several levels.

Tonymike
mark
mark

There is a strong element of paedophilia in the Talmud, though of course the same applies to Islam. And all these religions seem obsessed with people’s naughty bits.

“A baby girl may be enjoyed by a Jew if she is less than 3 years old. It is nothing, and akin to a finger being poked in her eye.”

“Sexual relations with a boy cannot occur if the child is less than 9 years old.”

Mohammed married a 9 year old.

Ben Trovata
Ben Trovata

If my beloved brother dies,it’s strictly illegal for me to assist his widow and my nieces.Unless I marry my sister-in-law.And if they’re in distress ( at all ) I do this without shame! —just sayin’ ’cause I’m not an expert on the Life of The Prophet,so,I’m just sayin’

Brian Harry
Brian Harry

Mark. That is GROSS, but, I’m not attacking you. I believe it…..There seems to be a real “bent” towards paedophilia amongst “Hebrews”…..I have no idea about Muslims…….

Admin
Admin
Admin

You are claiming Jews are more prone to pedophilia than non-Jews, based on an unsourced quote from a self-confessed racist.

You, Mark and Tony are a wholesome trio for sure.

Brian Harry
Brian Harry

“SEEMS”

Admin
Admin
Admin

So making sweeping wholesale denunciations of an ethnic group is rendered non-racist by adding the word ‘seems’?

The mental gymnastics of the self-deluding racist are breathtaking.

Admin
Admin
Admin

In medieval Europe female children were regularly married off to adult males. The age of consent in Spain was 13 until six years ago. Underage girls were permitted to marry in several US states until recently. As is the case in France. Pedophilia is an ongoing issue in the Catholic Church.

Once again your self-confessed racism hides behind spurious and selective outrage.

Greg Burton

And nobody, nobody is considering the evidence that Epstein may have been ‘switched out’, escaped while a doppelganger body was put in his place; and now Epstein is enjoying the ‘good life’, perhaps in Israel where there is no extradition treaty.

lundiel
lundiel

As someone recently reminded me…..There is no ‘good life’ in Israel, otherwise there would be millions of immigrants queueing to get in. It’s a bolt hole for rich fugatives and religious fanatcs.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

What evidence?

Maggie
Maggie

Hi Greg,
I think that people have definitely considered that Epstein was switched because there appears to be clear evidence of this. I have posted the links on ‘many’ of the Epstein sites here on Off G and other sites.
For some reason Epstein was taken to the Infirmary ”in a wheelchair” at 4.15am? Why? Had he lost the use of his legs? He was found unconscious at 6.30am, and pronounced dead around 7.30am.
https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/convicted-pedophile-jeffrey-epstein-dead/
Then a prison ‘worker’ tweeted at 8.44am, ten minutes before the story broke in the press that Epstein was found to have hanged himself. ( with paper sheets, from an eight foot high cell roof? )

>>The ominous message posted to 4Chan at 8:44 a.m. reads:
Not saying anything after this pls do not try to dox me but last night after 0415 they took him [Epstein] [to] medical in a wheelchair front cuffed but not 1 triage nurse says they spoke to him. Next thing we know trip vans show up? We do not do releases on weekends unless a judge orders it. Next thing we know, he’s put in a single man cell and hangs himself? Here’s the thing, the trip van did NOT sign in and we did not record the plate number and a guy with a green dress military outfit was in the back of the van according to the tower guy that let him through the gate. You guys I am shaking right now but I think they switched him out. Not lending any credence to this story but it was posted ”before” anyone knew Epstein was ”dead”.
Decide for yourself.
https://www.intellihub.com/prison-workers-4chan-post-10-minutes-before-news-of-jeffrey-epsteins-death-hit-media-guy-in-a-green-dress-military-outfit-switched-him-out/

My thoughts – Epstein is not dead. He is worth far more to the Blackmailing Mob alive than dead. He is away with his new name and identity, and probably a new face. Maybe in the name of who ever is the recipient of his will that he altered TWO days before his said ‘death’?
Imagine if they had killed him. How on earth would they ever get anyone else to step into his shoes?
https://milnenews.com/2019/08/19/jeffrey-epstein-signed-and-filed-his-will-2-days-before-he-died/

Tonymike
Tonymike

When a Black man dies at the hands of the jailer while in jail, the Black communities take their protests to the streets. Hopefully the jews will fill the streets with their outrage at the death of Epstein.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/10/16/police-death-black-man-hits-home-facebook-silicon-valley/1661688002/

George Cornell
George Cornell

This could turn out to be an unexpected key to blanket discrediting of the MSM, and exposing it for what it is. I surely hope so. If gravity is what was used to exert the constricting pressure on a noose, the noose should ride up under the chin, ordinarily well above the hyoid.

George Cornell
George Cornell

If the neck is extended, that is.

IAN COLVILLE

Just in; from the Washington Post:

An autopsy found that Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones. Among the bones broken was the hyoid bone. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject.

Jonathan L. Arden, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners, said a hyoid can be broken in many circumstances but is more commonly associated with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging.

Arden said that in general, a finding of a broken hyoid requires pathologists to conduct more extensive investigation. That investigation can include analysis of the location of the noose, how narrow the noose is, and if the body experienced any substantial drop in the course of the hanging.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html

George Cornell
George Cornell

Broken hyoid definitely more characteristic of strangulation. But depends on the type of hanging.

lundiel
lundiel

Interesting. I can’t imagine a prisoner having access to something like a rope, with strong resistance needed to break the neck bones. One would imagine the suicidee would only have access to sheets and clothing and the end result would be similar to asphyxiation?

George Cornell
George Cornell

Suicide risks are normally given paper sheets.

flaxgirl

This is pretty off-topic but it does related to “conspiracy theories” and it’s very topical.

Two days ago, in Sydney’s CBD, we had the usual staged nonsense, this time a Muslim terrorist armed with a knife who killed a sex-worker of whom he was allegedly a client. Rather incongruously for this case, but very common in this type of event, at some point he shouted “allahu akbar”.

And we have the usual anomalies.

Photo in PressFrom showing red (what look like) socks (but seemingly doctored).
https://pressfrom.info/au/news/australia/-141206-sydney-cbd-stabbing-suspect-was-staying-in-emergency-accommodation.html

Channel 9 video showing what look like white socks.
https://youtu.be/cmjy8YsDnUQ?t=108

The Sun video showing what look like white shoes and black socks.
https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=5

The image of him being held down in the The Sun video (https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=37) doesn’t match the image of him being held down in the PressFrom photo. In the Sun video he’s near the kerb while in the PressFrom photo he’s away from the kerb. Why would they seemingly move him from one spot to the other? They have him pinned. Why not get him up from where he is and walk him away from that spot?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“And we have the usual anomalies.”

Anomalies my arse. White sports shoes, black/red two-tone socks (black tops, red toes, heels and soles (only black would show with shoes on. As for kerb distance, camera viewpoint differences only. Held down in same spot–easy to check using eyes and checking multiple background references. Have you ever thought of applying for a research job with the On-Guardian (the newspaper everyone should be on guard against when reading).

I’ve just realized, on the final flip from your links and some other–mostly phone–shots also appearing on the web back to this page, that it’s you posting. Well done. Maintaining your usual high standard of slack-shit confusion.

flaxgirl

How about no blood on knife … or what do you think Robbo … that they wiped it off or perhaps that you can kill someone with a knife without blood getting on it, that the one in the video was another knife – not the one used? Please explain as infamously said by Pauline Hanson. Please explain the knife. Perhaps the blood was only on one side – the one we don’t see?
https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=41

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

I have no special insight on the knife, I assume it was his but who knows? The cameraman seems to have thought it was If it was, then at the beginning of the shot he was waving it around a little too far from the camera to see it clearly but after that he was chased along the street and brought to the ground by vigilantes before the police arrived. There was blood 0n that of his clothing that can be cleary seen and possibly or even likely on his accosters’ clothing as well. That’s a whole lot of rubbing potentially going on and at 44 seconds, when the ‘7’ logo clears the centre of the screen and the cameraman zooms in on the knife, there’s obviously some discolouration (still?) on the blade. To call any of that definitely suspicious so far borders on the sad-sack delusional.

flaxgirl

How I judge events is this, Robbo. If you think there is a flaw in my method please let me know what it is.

The hypothesis that fits ALL the available evidence easily and where some of the evidence at least cannot fit any other hypothesis (or only fits with assumptions and questions) is the one chosen.

In the case of staged events there is always a double-hypothesis:
—There are signs of fakery
—Some of the signs, at least, show deliberate obviousness

In the case of the CBD knifer:

— I aver that the bloodless gun is a deliberate sign of fakery. Even if blood were rubbed, especially in a situation where it has killed someone and injured another, it would show signs of smearing. It is completely clean so I aver that this is a deliberate sign of fakery. It certainly fits deliberate sign of fakery perfectly while for “real” event we have to make the assumption that the knife was wiped completely clean.

—I aver the following are very clear signs of deliberate fakery:
——The word “Staged” appearing incongruously in the middle of this snippet on the page below.

—— The contradictory-to-other-information-provided and inappropriateness of “Must have been a hell of a drug bender…”
[Elsewhere we are told the guy is taking “antinex” (should be Antenex – another sign) but, of course, even if he were on illegal drugs, very inappropriate to the seriousness of the situation.]

https://headtopics.com/au/highest-order-heroes-the-men-who-took-down-an-alleged-sydney-knifeman-7520445

Sydney stabbing LIVE: NSW Police confirm body found in Clarence Street unit linked to attack
BREAKING: We can confirm the death of the woman in the Clarence Street unit in Sydney’s CBD is linked to the stabbing on the street below. Staged Must have been a hell of a drug bender…

Thus we have a number of signs of both fakery and deliberate obviousness of fakery. There is absolutely nothing that supports “real” over “staged”.

If this isn’t enough evidence for you, Robbo, how much more evidence would you need? How many instances of fakery/deliberate obviousness of fakery do you require to be confident that an event is staged?

flaxgirl

And just to add – the knife is just lying there on the pavement with all those response people around? Wouldn’t it be confiscated?

flaxgirl

And just to add further – I guess it is always dangerous to make it about a single piece of evidence, even if it seems extremely compelling – the 2.25 seconds in the collapse of WTC-7 is probably OK because that is just so clear cut. But the point is there isn’t usually only a single piece of evidence in the first place. There’s quite a lot. It’s the fact that ALL the pieces fit one hypothesis nicely while they don’t fit any other hypothesis in the same way. It’s like Cinderella’s glass slipper – it fit her perfectly but no one else although no doubt another foot could have been jammed into the shoe.

flaxgirl

Apologies, Robbo, I missed your bit about discoloration. I can see reddish on the handle which we would expect if he has “blood” on his hands but I see no signs of blood or smearing on the blade. There seem to be white marks on the blade but these in no way to me suggest smearing or cleaning off of blood. To put it bluntly, there is simply no sign of blood (or previous signs of blood) on the blade of the knife. Yes, it could have been wiped off so that there were no traces, however, a bloodless blade perfectly fits “gratuitous sign of fakery” (part b of hypothesis) while we have to make assumptions for “real”. And then we have the seeming anomaly of the blade just lying there. Very importantly, this isn’t the ONLY piece of evidence. Every other piece can be seen to either fit both hypotheses or favour “staged” over “real”.

flaxgirl

Also, agreed I made too much of the socks, however, clearly he is not wearing red socks in the Channel 9 video while he is shown to be wearing red socks in the photo. Yes, they could have taken the red socks off before they marched him away just as they took his shoes off. That is a possibility.

I stand by his different positioning. You can clearly see the kerb right next to him in The Sun video and you can see the kerb is distant from him in the photo.

axisofoil
axisofoil

Come on now…he wasn’t wearing socks.

flaxgirl

I’m not sure what your argument is axisofoil. I say quite clearly, “Yes, they could have taken the red socks off before they marched him away just as they took his shoes off. That is a possibility.” However, whether he was wearing white socks or no socks in the Channel 9 video is of little import now, axisofoil, because I pulled out a much more compelling piece of evidence.

I find it interesting that people who argue with me choose my original weak (sometimes invalid) point and argue against that, ignoring the more compelling point I’ve subsequently brought up as if it doesn’t exist. Bloodless knife is very hard to make fit for “real” event. If you can make it fit, please let me know how, axisofoil, however, even if you can make it fit I’m sure I’ll be able to come up with something else because they’re always generous with their clues. You have to give them that – they’re always generous with their clues and so it’s difficult not to recognise the fakery except by wifully turning your head from the generous clues they provide.
https://youtu.be/MNe_Sf8yBEU?t=41

axisofoil
axisofoil

Flaxgirl, I really know nothing about socks. I do know that pedophiles desire distraction right now, and are probably reading where this post is going and smiling. With Epstein gone, managing the dialog will be a breeze. Next we’ll be talking about walnut cheese pizza thinking it is a country.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

As they were leading him to the van, I think you are right, no socks, but not certainly: there’s only a very brief two or three frame flash of his feet not obscured by “Breaking News” banner or his escort on the best clip I found. It’s difficult to discern on this tablet which is stuck with YouTube’s crude viewer and I couldn’t be bothered to search for an alternative angle or fire up my desktop to download the clip for a better analysis in a half decent viewer or two.

flaxgirl

Forget about the inconclusive socks, Robbo. Let’s move on from them. The bloodless knife is unarguable with and then how about the word “Staged” appearing incongruously in the middle of this snippet on this page and the inappropriateness of “Must have been a hell of a drug bender…” I thought the guy was on prescription drugs but, of course, even if he were on illegal drugs, very inappropriate.

https://headtopics.com/au/highest-order-heroes-the-men-who-took-down-an-alleged-sydney-knifeman-7520445

Sydney stabbing LIVE: NSW Police confirm body found in Clarence Street unit linked to attack
BREAKING: We can confirm the death of the woman in the Clarence Street unit in Sydney’s CBD is linked to the stabbing on the street below. Staged Must have been a hell of a drug bender…

Admin
Admin
Admin

The only odd thing about that Chan 9 vid is something you don’t mention. The cops seem to be doing a photo op with the perp, holding him down on the ground for several mins while the assembled press take pics!

flaxgirl

If it were clearer that the guy is wearing white socks that would be very significant against the photo of him wearing red socks, however, as it’s not clear I acknowledge I shouldn’t have bothered with it – he may well be sockless. Holding the guy down for pics may be odd but it doesn’t clearly indicate fakery. My main concern is clear indication of fakery.

This video (if it hasn’t been pulled down) clearly shows cops spraying blood at the Philly event. Caught red-handed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGRq80InQU

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

And allowing themselves to be seen bullying him although he has obviously been neutralized. Still, the Sydney police are extraordinarily rough in their own interests, no external events or conspiracies required. One night, two or three decades ago now, I was past a police station car park at the top of the main road from the CBD to Kings Cross when, as if it were daylight, several large policemen were

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Oops, accidentally hit Post:

… several large policemen were seriously assaulting a slight, Italian looking guy before dragging him inside. When I mentioned it to some Australian friends I was on my way to meet in a restaurant they just shrugged–so what was unusual about that?–but who obviously didn’t believe it could happen in such a wide open public space. Several months later they sent me a clipping from a Sydney newspaper. An Italian guy who’d been arrested in Kings Cross was suing the police for the beating they had given him in the police station car park before taking him inside to be charged. As they had the receipt for the meal in their tax file, they checked the date…

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

-3 (and counting) Sydney coppers reading here?

Tonymike
Tonymike

And this has what to do with Epstein? Obfuscation as it’s best.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

It has nothing to do with Epstein specifically, but it does have a lot to do with obfuscation in general, which is likely figure ever larger in the postmortem Epstein story for some time yet. From my point of view analysis of obfuscations is usually more relevant to the future than analyses of most of its specific instances, fish and chip wrapper being what it is. So far this particular off-topic subthread has not reached an analysis of anything, true but maybe it will yet…

Meanwhile, those outraged by the paedophiliac aspect of the deceased Epstein’s entrepreneurial activities in itself might–but almost certainly won’t–care to consider the possibility that the reportedly harmful effects of paedophilia on the children and teenagers involved possibly falls under the same old bell curve that delineates most humans’ expression of themselves, however much variation in skewness and kurtosis is involved in fitting it to different cultures in different times and different circumstances, and that could also be seen as or engendering obfuscation.

Maggie
Maggie

Flax – Clearly shown in the accompany video. White trainers and black sock with red heels and toes. His shoes and socks were removed for some reason as were his trousers – almost!
and he was pushed into the van bare foot.

Probably became schizophrenic after abusing drugs for some time? Or NOT taking his meds?
This happened to my friend’s son, resulting in him stabbing someone in the back for ”talking about him.” When in fact he had stopped his meds weeks before. He was locked in Rampton for 15 years and then sent out to live in accommodation in the community, with a supervisor… But he is still schizophrenic…

It was NOT an act of terror, but was the act of a mentally ill young man.

flaxgirl

Maggie, you cannot base your judgement of an event on plausibility, it must be on the evidence.

They give us clear evidence that it is a staged event as follows:

—photos of him with both brown eyes and blue eyes and in a photo with blue eyes you can see the the ring around the iris indicating blue-tinted contact lenses (scroll down).

https://pressfrom.info/au/news/australia/-141427-sydney-stabbing-accused-mert-ney-reportedly-saw-michaela-dunn-and-other-sex-workers-before-alleged-attacks.html

—text in the media that includes the anomalous appearance of the word “Staged” and the highly inappropriate “Must have been a hell of a drug bender …”:

https://headtopics.com/au/highest-order-heroes-the-men-who-took-down-an-alleged-sydney-knifeman-7520445
Sydney stabbing LIVE: NSW Police confirm body found in Clarence Street unit linked to attack
BREAKING: We can confirm the death of the woman in the Clarence Street unit in Sydney’s CBD is linked to the stabbing on the street below. Staged Must have been a hell of a drug bender…

It is impossible to fit the three things above into a “real” event while they perfectly fit “staged” – as they always undermine the reality of their staged events with signs. Additionally, there is no evidence that favours real over staged.

Maggie
Maggie

Sorry Flax, but I disagree on this occasion. The ‘colour’ change in the eye was due to dilation. The Mancunian brothers who chased the guy down said that he popped something into his mouth just before they overpowered him. Most medication takes 20 min to take effect. Which would account for the iris anomaly?
”psychotropic stimulants”
https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/drug-addiction/drugs-dilated-pupils/

Whilst I agree with many of your deductions about previous ‘false flags’ In this case I believe that this was genuinely a disturbed young man, who was screaming for help..

flaxgirl

Maggie, the issue is different colour of iris not the size of it seemingly compromised by pupil dilation.

Three things that favour “staged” over “real”:
— Eyes appearing first brown then blue and ring around iris in photo indicating the presence of blue-tinted contact lenses to explain this anomaly
— The word “staged” simply stuck in a paragraph not connected to the text within it
— The highly inappropriate tone and register of “must have been a hell of a drug bender …”

There are other things too but can’t be bothered going into them.

I didn’t notice pupil dilation myself. I think the Mancunians are big fat crisis actors.

I am happy to agree to disagree. I will read whatever you write in reply but that is all I have to say … unless you have some compelling evidence that the event was real.

James Connolly
James Connolly

If you had told these sages for the first time a couple of days ago that a prominent NY financier was running a child sex ring for top politicians and academics you can imagine what their response would have been…

flaxgirl

Spot on.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“Do you have his number?'”

padre
padre

Not everybody, hat doesn’t believe official narrative is a conspiracy theorist, because it has bin proven that official do lie!”I never had a sexual relation with that woman, Monica Lewinsky”, said Bill Clinton under oath.

mark
mark

Ah, but blow jobs don’t count.
“I did not impale.”
I actually met ML once.
Strange that a fat little Jewess was being dangled in front of Slick Willie at a time when he was being uncharacteristically critical of Talmudistan over its settlements.
Probably pure coincidence.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Give it a fucking rest.

_________________________
Proud to be Anti-FAsCemitic

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate

During his grand jury testimony, in regards regarding the truthfulness of his statement that “there IS not a sexual relationship… .” Clinton used carefully worded responses, like -“It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is” ”

therefore…

B.C. ” I want you to listen to me…..I did not have sexual relations with THAT woman.” (Stop/Pause/Break/End/Finish/Close – Discontinuence.

“Miss Lewinsky.”

tis crafty indeed, much like the above Guardian quotes – just more hollow,meaningless…doublespeak nonsense.

🙂

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

‘B.C. ” I want you to listen to me…..I did not have sexual relations with THAT woman.” (Stop/Pause/Break/End/Finish/Close – Discontinuence.

“Miss Lewinsky.””

Good, accurate transcription of inherent, rampant, underlying sexism uncovered by total concious attention being directed elsewhere. Why thousands of feminists did not pick up on that “THAT’ and march on Washington as a lynching party I’ve never been able to fathom.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar

So here are few questions:

1. An anonymous source who spent many months in the MCC has stated that committing suicide by hanging using sheets was in effect impossible. So ask the following:
a. Was the internal spec of Epstein’s cell in any way different to the others, to make the impossible possible?
b. Were Epstein’s sheets of unusual strength, making them capable of hanging a 160-200lb male to death? Suicide watch sheets were made of paper….
c. How specifically was this sheet attached to the ceiling?
d. How did Epstein acquire the ability to install such attachments to the ceiling? (we are talking needing to drill holes etc, industrial-grade adhesives or the like)
e. How often were cells checked for such illicit tools? As often as in Alcatraz in the 1960s?

2. Given Epstein’s remarkable network in the corridors of power, do you not find it odd in the extreme that he returned to Teterboro in the first place, as he would surely have known what awaited him? Would he not always travel with false identities in place to make a quiet getaway, if he really were a CIA/Mossad operative?

3. If he were going to turn State’s Evidence, do you not think the deal would be keeping him under wraps well away from the US, then flying him in to give evidence at trial? Seeing as how the MCC was SO safe…

4. If he had served his masters so well for so long, why was retirement not execution not the order of his masters? If they really are so powerful, who was more powerful to make them sacrifice him to stay in the game?

Note, I am seeking to ‘eliminate the official narrative from my enquiries’, not postulate conspiracy theories. Only when offcial narratives are proven to be bunkum, hocus pocus, products of the rear ends of equines etc etc, need new hypotheses be formulated to be submitted to skeptical enquiries.

John A
John A

Rhys, while I agree with much of your analysis, the official story is that he tied whatever he used to strangle himself to the upper bunk bed, not the ceiling. By talking about ‘drilling holes in the ceiling’ etc., your entire argument can be waved away by the MSM as discredited. They usually simply pick on one slight incorrect fact to sweep away every other piece of logic.

lundiel
lundiel

Agreed, but you can accept Rhys’ incredulity. To hang yourself from a top bunk, (approx 5′ 6″) takes extraordinary intent and the ability to overcome your own, built in survival mechanisms. I think Fred West did it, but he was a very different character to Mr Epstein. I imagine you’d have to secure your hands first, then drop from the top bunk with a ligature in place, with bended legs which you would resist from acting as a stop mechanism by having tied them around the thighs and ankles so the legs couldn’t be extended, otherwise self survival would automatically take over.
Mr Epstein may have been desperate but was he also beyond believing in the power his wealth provided in a country that found Michael Jackson not guilty and so fanatically single minded that his life had no meaning any more?

JudyJ
JudyJ

A former inmate in the same unit had some interesting comments on the alleged suicide…

https://www.foxnews.com/us/theres-no-way-jeffrey-epstein-killed-himself-a-former-nyc-jail-inmate-says

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

Rhys, John Kiriakou has written a considered piece at Consortium News, which covers much of the conspiracy/cock-up aspects that may have allowed the kiddy fiddler to attempt suicide by nonce haters in most prisons. (I guess because he was obviously shit at doing it to himself).

Michael
Michael

I think this “suicide” conspiracy had to begin with Epstein taken into custody, because if he’d disappeared while free he would be considered alive and well for many years to come. Only after a fake suicide (and the body with a different nose and ear proves there was a body swap) can there be the suggestion he’s dead. They wouldn’t swap a body and then kill him, they’d just kill him. Epstein is free somewhere, arranged by powerful crooks worse than the mafia.

mark
mark

What surprises me most of all is that he didn’t get wind of this and make himself scarce before being arrested. He must have been tipped off about it.
Hide out with all the other fraudsters, swindlers, sex traffickers, organ traffickers and the like in Talmudistan.
Maybe this gives some credence to the suggestion the death was faked, an elaborate hoax.

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle

The propaganda arm of the establishment (ie theGuardian) knows it can resort to vacuous opinion pieces like this because in certain controversial circumstances truth is hidden behind a veil of secrecy and official corruption.
Instead the media resorts to REPITITION rather than evidence to get their message out, in other words article after article appears utilising the same key phrases over and over again: in this case linking Epstein with paedophilia and suicide (much in the same way they did with Corbyn and antisemitism)

The death of David Kelly is a perfect example of how this overall process plays out: overt political interference, compliant judicial figures and a media that is hostile to truth telling should that truth conflict with certain narratives (such as challenging the lies Blair told to rationalise the murder of one million Iraqis).

The JFK enquiry was a joke, while 9/11 is practically an instruction manual on how to subvert justice.

Of course, if an individual is unlucky enough to be hidden behind a prison wall (see Julian Assange) god knows what can happen.
The only thing we know for sure is that if you do want to find out then the very last place to look is compromised platforms like Guardian because all you get there, as Kit rightly points out are simplistic cultural tropes rather than meaningful interrogation of the actual evidence.