73

How the OPCW’s investigation of the Douma incident was nobbled*

Paul McKeigue, David Miller, Jake Mason, Piers Robinson Members of Working Group on Syria, Propaganda and Media

The creation in 2014 of a new mechanism – the “Fact-Finding Mission in Syria” (FFM) – to investigate alleged chemical attacks allowed the OPCW to bypass the procedures laid down in the Chemical Weapons Convention for investigations of alleged use, and to set its own rules for these investigations.

The roles of the Director-General and the newly appointed director of the Investigation and Identification Team (IIT) are mostly ceremonial. The effective boss of the OPCW is the Chief of Cabinet Sébastien Braha, a French diplomat, and the Principal Investigator of the IIT is Elise Coté, a Canadian diplomat. Although these individuals have obvious conflicts of interest in relation to Syria, the OPCW lacks any procedure for managing such situations.

The Technical Secretariat’s excuse for suppression of the Engineering Assessment – that evidence that the cylinders were manually placed rather than dropped from the air is “outside of the mandate and methodology of the FFM” – is fallacious and contradicts OPCW’s published reports on the Douma incident.

It was already clear from open-source evidence, as we pointed out in an earlier briefing note, that the Interim and Final Reports of the FFM on the Douma incident had been nobbled. Our sources have now filled in some of the details of this process. Specifically:

  • By mid-June 2018 there would have been ample time to draft an interim report that summarized the analysis of witness testimony, open-source images, on-site inspections and lab results. We have learned that the original draft of the interim report, which had noted inconsistencies in the evidence of a chemical attack, was revised by a process that was not transparent to FFM team members to become the published Interim Report released on 6 July 2018 that included only the laboratory results.
  • After the release of the Interim Report, the investigation proceeded in secrecy with all FFM team members who had deployed to Douma excluded. It was nominally led by Sami Barrek who as FFM Team Leader had left Damascus before the on-site inspections began. These FFM team members do not know who wrote the document that was released as the “Final Report of the FFM”.
  • We have learned from multiple sources that the second stage of the investigation involved consultation with Len Phillips, the previous leader of FFM Team Alpha who worked in the OPCW during this period as a self-employed consultant.

From examination of three earlier FFM reports on incidents in 2015 or 2017 where Phillips was the Team Leader, it is clear that these reports also excluded or ignored evidence that these alleged chemical attacks had been staged. Specifically:

  • The FFM report on the alleged chlorine attacks in Idlib between 16 March and 20 May 2015 omitted the crucial fact, later noted by the Joint Investigative Mechanism, that the refrigerant canisters allegedly used as components of chemical munitions could not have been repurposed.
  • The FFM report on the alleged sarin attack in Khan Sheikhoun on 4 April 2017 omitted the information, later noted by the Joint Investigative Mechanism which had access to the same records, that the recorded hospital admission times of at least 100 patients were too early for them to have reached hospital if they had become casualties at the time the attack was alleged to have occurred.
  • The FFM investigation of the alleged chlorine attack in Ltamenah on 25 March 2017, reported on 13 June 2018, led it to discover a previously unrecorded sarin attack nearby the day before, and to prompt the White Helmets to provide, eleven months later, munition parts that tested positive for intact sarin. The report failed to explain or even comment on how intact sarin could have persisted for so long in the open.

This indicates that the suppression of the Engineering Assessment of the Douma incident was not an isolated aberration. In this context it is relevant that the opposition-linked NGOs on which the FFM has relied for evidence since 2014 have dubious provenance, and at least some of them have been set up under UK tutelage.

The credibility of the OPCW cannot be restored simply by finding some way to reverse what were purported to be the findings of the FFM on the Douma incident, but only by an independent re-examination of all its previous investigations of alleged chemical attacks in Syria, and a radical reform of its governance and procedures.

To resolve the discrepancy between the conclusions of the internal Engineering Assessment and those of the Final Report, a first step would be to make public the assessments of the external engineering experts on whom the Final Report relied. The engineering assessments were based on observations of the cylinders and measurements at the locations where they were found.

As the cylinders, tagged and sealed by the OPCW inspectors, are in the custody of the Syrian government, it is feasible to undertake an independent study to determine whether the conclusions of earlier engineering assessments can be replicated. For such a study to be credible, it would have to be undertaken by a panel independent of OPCW, in accordance with methods for reproducible research.

This is the Summary of a long work first published by Working Group on Syria, Propaganda and Media earlier this year, to read the full report click here.
*The term ‘nobbled’ is used here to describe illegal or unfair interference. The term was originally used to describe actions designed to prevent a horse from winning a race.

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vexarb
vexarb

Meanwhile, back in the real world; why John Bullshit was forced to release the Persian ship he had pirated, and why Uncle $cam will not make hot war on Iran:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/08/long-range-attack-on-saudi-oil-field-ends-war-on-yemen.html

[That Saudi oilfield belongs to Rothschild oil company KSA, and is an important part of AZC cash flow. Forget fictitious Novichoke, look at real Oilchoke: pressure points within range of Persian-built missiles in the Persian Gulf area that can disrupt AZC cash flow . Propaganda spouts but Money talks].

mark
mark

Yep, keep hitting those Shadies hard. They’ve exported their terrorists all over the planet, so let’s see how good they are at taking it. Keep hitting their oil and gas. Ras Tanura on the east coast handles 10% of the world’s oil. Seems like a suitable destination for a few drones. Let’s see how the Sheikhs of Araby and the Three Stooges (US, UK and Talmudistan) like that one.
Keep squeezing their b*lls.

Syria and Yemen are the two Stalingrads that will bring down the Shady Barbaria dictatorship and the larger Zionist empire.

They just need to keep up constant pressure. If they do, events will follow the same pattern as the attacks on the German synthetic oil plants in 1944.

wardropper
wardropper

Although these individuals have obvious conflicts of interest in relation to Syria, the OPCW lacks any procedure for managing such situations.

This is a very common excuse for today’s corruption, and an excuse is precisely what it is: Some expensive lawyer is paid to promote the theory that the situation wasn’t foreseen, and therefore there are obviously no laws to govern it.
But this is wrong thinking. Greed and systemic corruption ARE foreseen, and of course the individuals concerned come under that heading, if only our society and its media would just take their heads out of their bottoms and focus properly.

Steve Hayes

John Bolton threatened a previous head of the OPCW, Jose Bustani, for wanting the organisation to carry out its mandate impartially, instead of being a tool of Washington. Bolton even went so far as to threaten Bustani’s children. https://www.rt.com/usa/423477-bolton-threat-opcw-iraq/

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect

I’ve yet to see any of these Assadists around Hayward explain why the rebels never used chemical attacks in the past 8 years except on the people who had already been subject to conventional bombing by Assad. You’d think that if they had weaponized chlorine, they’d have been lobbing them into Damascus. If sarin gas is so easy to cook up according to Seymour Hersh (it isn’t), why not wreak havoc on Assad’s military? The answer should be obvious. You don’t need to consult Ted Postol to understand how obvious the answer is. They don’t have such weapons.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

Triple wow, Louis: your standard of trolling is diving real low and you are fully out of the essential ingredient O2 … Oxygen, Louis P. 🙂 peeing myself laughing at this attempt and I can only advise you to go for a walk and get some Oxygen; come back, re-read that comment and tell me you are proud of yourself and your ridiculous assertions, assumptions & absurd projection & transference from all key matters involved & discussed in the article … 🙂

Philip Roddis

Aren’t you missing the point? When we ask the cui bono question, Damascus guilt is off the scale unlikely; AQ et al guilt off the scale likely. Since the terrorists have everything to gain by blaming Assad, they would target areas where Syran forces are operating. Rocket science it ain’t.

On the other hand I’ve yet to hear any of these peddlers of NATO/Salafist apologetics explain why Assad would whip out the poison gas at the worst possible moments for his government. Or address the hugely problematic evidential issues re Ghouta, Khan Sheikhoun and Douma.

SO.
SO.

Sarin (GB) is not a gas. It’s an oily liquid. If anyone tries to convince you GB is a gas you know they don’t understand the subject.

Chareles Wood
Chareles Wood

Like most things Sarin exists in all forms – solid, liquid, gas. It readily evaporates to form the vapour that is the primary means of injuring people. You can see this in the first ‘canary’ symptom of gas exposure – pinpoint pupils (myosis). The vapour is adsorbed on the eyeball and causes immediate contraction of the pupil well before inhaled vapour causes other symptoms.

This results in standard gas warfare training requiring masking up the instant someone shows myosis.

And vapour does not mean a mist or cloud. It means completely evaporated liquid such as petrol or diesel that is essentially invisible

SO.
SO.

CBRN training?

It’s a good rule of thumb cos it’ll save your life but you’re just taught that cos CW involves a lot of really nasty stuff and you won’t have a hell of a lot of time to discuss the subject.

(you’re free to try obviously ~ wouldn’t recommend it though)

Sarin itself is actually quite stable at room temp.

High volatile is your old buddy tabun. (GA)

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

Way out of his depth.

For an in-the-weeds exchange on the Dhouma incident, see the comments section of:

https://louisproyect.org/2019/06/01/was-the-douma-chlorine-gas-attack-a-false-flag/

Beware. This is where you end up after years being inside the reformist US SWP.

Should stick to film reviewing.

mark
mark

“Sarin gas isn’t easy to cook up.”
A handful of Japanese religious nut jobs with limited resources did so and killed and injured a number of people on the Tokyo Underground.
Turkish police arrested takfiri head choppers in possession of canisters of sarin nerve gas inside Turkey.
It is so easy to produce it is often referred to as kitchen gas.
Western proxy terrorists have used it ineffectively on many occasions against Syrian military forces and Syrian civilians.
They have done so for propaganda hoax purposes to justify aggression by their western sponsors and paymasters.

Syrian military forces have never used nerve gas in their operations.
The reason for this is that poison gas is virtually useless as a military weapon.
It is less effective than high explosive.
It has not been used on any significant scale since WW1.
There have been a few occasions by people like Saddam Hussein which do not detract from this general picture.
During WW1, the German Army suffered 2,400,000 dead. Of these, 2,000, less than one in a thousand, were caused by poison gas. It was ineffective as a weapon, and that is the reason it fell into disuse. Nothing to do with humanitarian considerations. It was simply more trouble than it was worth.
Syria retained a stockpile of nerve gas for a number of years as a possible deterrent against the huge illegal nuclear weapons arsenal of the Zionist Regime.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

And according to the dastardly Seymour Hersh, al-Nusra had acquired sarin from the materiel shipped from Libya, while Turkey and Saudi ‘chemical facilitators’ were attempting to obtain sarin precursors in bulk for sarin manufacture by Salafists inside Syria.

SO.
SO.

The thing they were attempting to import is something called DF. (Methylphosphonyl di-flouride). To turn DF into sarin you just mix it with Isopropyl Alcohol. (rubbing alcohol)

You could do it in a bucket or your bath provided you didn’t mind the entire death bit.

If you google about you’ll probably notice no one has any problem telling you DF+IPA = GB but no one will tell you how to make the DF.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

Thanks for that info. I should check if it’s in my Vogel.

Guy Thornton
Guy Thornton

I remember reading an interview with one of the Novichok inventors….he said that no-one, in either the laboratory or in the military, could come up with an effective way of deploying these agents. But the Russian generals in charge of the laboratories liked to report back to Moscow that they had developed these incredibly toxic substances…for which they got promotions…and their opposite numbers in the USA did the same. It was a willy-waving exercise “our nerve agents are more deadly than yours”.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher

Experience from WW1 was that poison gases aren’t a very useful weapon of war, their main purpose wasn’t to kill and maim but to harass since fighting efficiency is much reduced if you’re wearing protective gear.

The Tokyo Sarin incident highlights the limitations of poisonous agents even when you’re using a potent one. The attack had to be in a confined space to work at all. An attack on people in an open space is a losing proposition unless you’re trying to make propaganda hay from it.

George
George

The propaganda is becoming so crude that I wonder why they don’t just repeat the Nayirah testimony with a new voiceover. Just delete the words “Iraq” and “Kuwait” and substitute anything else you feel like.

vexarb
vexarb

And meanwhile, back in the real world:

Gibraltar Supreme Court vacates the detention order for Grace1, ordering its immediate release notwithstanding the US DOJ request to delay the release. Report from PRESS TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmus88OSx8&t=64s

comment image

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

Blinding bit of Real NEWS, Breaking News by [email protected]

Thanks Dr.V.
Much appreciated,
Wholly significant,
Warmest regards,
Tim

vexarb
vexarb

MI6, Dirty Tricks! MI6, Dirty Tricks! MI6, Dirty Tricks!

The Alfabet Soup Kids ponder their poison tricks; meanwhile, back in the real world
Les chiens hurlent mais le caravan s’enmarche:

Syrian Army Purges NATZO Terrorists From 1000 Sq/Km Of Territories In Hama, Idlib In Past 24 Hours – Link to Fort Russ

Excerpt: “It pointed to the Syrian Army advances deep inside the demilitarized zone to reopen Aleppo-Damascus Road, and said that the government troops have tightened the noose on Tahrir al-Sham al-Hay’at (the Levant Liberation Board or the Al-Nusra Front) in the city of Khan Sheikhoun in southern Idlib.”

Balderdasah
Balderdasah

Do it right or don’t bother. The use of chemical weapons on civilians is a war crime. War crimes are the worst kind of illegal actions. They deserve to be investigated thoroughly and professionally. That means looking objectively at all the evidence – particularly that which has not been secured before study, or the accounts of victims and witnesses. Anomalies in the evidence, as well as consistencies and patterns, need to be part of the reporting – at all stages. The Truth will out if it is gathered impartially.

The current leadership of the OPCW has been impugned for interfering – in this case very stupidly – in what should have been a very clear cut task. Uninvolved civilians, or varying political perspectives, were on site virtually from the event itself and reported with more objectivity long before the experts appeared.

“Fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on you.” The OPCW and its latest ‘study group’ has incompetently tried to fool the World almost every time it was called upon. The members should all resign.

Stephen Morrell
Stephen Morrell

Read Scott Ritter’s piece taking apart OPCW more generally and his unpicking of the Khan Shaykhun incident, is a good complement to this.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-vindication-of-tulsi-gabbard/

vexarb
vexarb

Scott Ritter. Let his name be enrolled among the Righteous Yanks.

He taught me a good lesson when I watched him on TV: Chief UN Weapons Inspector with a mission to destroy Saddam’s missiles — the real ones that fell on Israel during the Gulf War without doing much damage beyond breaking glass, not the later fictional WMD from TB.Liar’s 45min of infamy on the world stage. I saw Ritter harrying the Iraqi officials, nosing every nook and cranny, and thought he was a real pest, one of those officials who revel in “only doing my job”. Then came Bush/BLiar and their fake WMDs, the pretext for their Coalition of the Killing against Iraq.

What Ritter’s indignation taught me was, that a man can be a Yankee Redneck, a jobsbody, a stickler and a general pain in the neck, but he will risk dismissal or worse, rather than cave in to his Superiors, and lie and say (as his boss Hans Blick said),
“No, I did not do my job properly, there are many questions left unanswered, so Iraq may still have Weapons of Mass Destruction”.

[Sir Humphrey: “To rubbish a report, say there are many questions left unanswered”.
Minister Hacker: “What questions?”
Sir Humphrey: “The ones that were not asked”.]

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

Yes, it’s called having Integrity. Something that is missing sorely and wide spread in too many public office holders.

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

While the article is to be lauded, the image did make me want to vomit. That we (mankind) have allowed Western regimes – with the financial support of wealthy and exceptional states in the Middle East – to cause this catastrophic mess via the creation of terrorist organizations is only second the the greatest crimes against humanity perpetrated in the 20th century.

The Owners’ Propaganda about Chemical Weapons is an especially decrepit institution that obviously sees its only purpose to serve as a willful tool for the regimes in question. At that it (the responsible people behind it) is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Syria was bombed based on fabricated evidence and while these missile raids may not have caused extensive damage and casualties, what matters here is that a significant part of the world population was lied into believing that the President/the Syrian Government was indiscriminately gassing its population and thus creating the false narrative, that Assad was a brutal dictator that needed even more brutal ousting.

Here lies the caveat: those responsible for the propaganda coming from the OPCW must be brought before a court for crimes against humanity. The fact that there is no such court that would even be considered to have the means to enforce the existing laws against war crimes and crimes against humanity, makes such crimes possible. In conjunction with the international-law-lessness of the Western regimes, their war criminals in power and the instigators and sponsors of unspeakable crimes in the Middle East, mankind is obviously unable to equip such a court with the independent judiciary and the means to enforce any judgements.

The Skripal affair, that had the ‘prime’ minister of the UK and its excuse for a foreign minister screaming for punishment of Russia based on nothing else but evidence free allegations, was steering the West closer to a military confrontation with Russia – is spite of the OPCW knowing these allegations to be nothing but propaganda. It did not stand up to the UK regime’s worst propagandists and war mongers. That in itself is another crime against humanity, as a military confrontation based on illegal sanctions that constitute war crimes on their own, was not defused, but promoted by the OPCW.

As long as there is no justice served and reparations to be paid to all victims of these crimes against humanity – including all costs for the rebuilding of the Nations in question – the lawlessness of the Western regimes and with it the perpetrated atrocities will continue. These are the real Dark Ages.

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

The formatting went wrong. Apologies. Hopefully it still makes sense.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar

The BBC has just run a new story, 18 months on, claiming that ‘low levels of Novichok exposure were confirmed in a police officer’. Miraculously, no-one has seen either of the Skripals in public since the alleged incident in early 2018.

As I no longer trust the BBC as a source of integrity, this is merely pointing out current propaganda, not suggesting the story has any truth to it.

Guy
Guy

So very well said and to add Libya to the list of nations destroyed as many others .Is there no end to the madness that some nations would destroy others for the sake of greed and covet of the land that they can only steal .

mark
mark

All these organisations like the OPCW and IAEA are hopelessly politicised, compromised and corrupt.
They forfeited any moral authority a long time ago.
The same applies in spades to “NGOs” and “charities” like Amnesty International, Oxfam, Human Rights Watch, Save The Children, Red Cross.
They should be given no credence whatever.
They are tools of powerful, evil vested interests. They are not a force for good.

Look at the photograph at the top of the page.
That is what these people seek to achieve in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, and anywhere else in the neocon cross hairs.
Assad’s father stamped out a takfiri rebellion hard in Hama in 1982.
If his son had reacted with similar ruthlessness in 2011, he could have saved Syria incalculable suffering.
The same applies to the CIA orchestrated coup in Maidan.
Or the current CIA regime change operation in Hong Kong.
Any open system is wide open to subversion, intrigue and organised violence from the regime change wire pullers in Washington.

William HBonney

If his son had reacted with similar ruthlessness in 2011, he could have saved Syria incalculable suffering.

That is an evil thing to type. Leaders are supposed to serve their people, not the other way around.

You strike me, not for the first time, as a wannabe war criminal.

David Bishop
David Bishop

You strike me, not for the first time, as a wannabe BBC reporter.

Philip Roddis

There’s no shortage of evidence – see Tim Anderson’s ‘Dirty War on Syria’ for a summary of it – that Syrians, including some who’d taken part in the Daraa protests, did indeed blame Bashar al-Assad for being insufficiently ruthless in cracking down on Islamist terror.

Your comment assumes that Hafez, who’d battled time and again with a Muslim Brotherhood opposed to his secular modernising, had no popular support. Where did you get that assumption?

different frank
different frank

My cat wants a word.
comment image&key=3m_j3kkV31qMGK0LyGSvIg&w=800&h=280

different frank
different frank

comment image&key=3m_j3kkV31qMGK0LyGSvIg&w=800&h=280

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym

“No results found”

different frank
different frank

I know mate.

I don’t know why it posted like that.
It’s a meme of a cat with a machine gun.

mark
mark

Leaders serve their people by protecting them from foreign proxy terrorists and preventing their countries being destroyed and overrun by hostile powers.

Hafez stamped out a foreign sponsored takfiri uprising using all necessary force. There was certainly loss of life, though casually inflated figures from western sources should be treated with considerable scepticism.

Think how much suffering and destruction could have been prevented if Bashar had suppressed the terrorists with unrestrained and unlimited exemplary brutality at the outset. 8 years of western proxy terrorism, the destruction of the country, and Turkish and US invasions, hundreds of thousands of deaths, could have been avoided. Instead, he reacted with great restraint, sending in unarmed police to deal with rioting, large numbers of whom were simply gunned down. With the benefit of hindsight, this was clearly a disastrous mistake.

Likewise, the gangs of vicious Nazi thugs trained at NATO bases in Poland and Lithuania who took over Maidan square, should have been immediately put down with however much force was necessary. This would have prevented the take over by a CIA orchestrated Fascist Coup Regime and the ensuing civil war. Sometimes restraint and moderation, however well intentioned, are tantamount to criminal negligence.

The suppression of the Tiananmen Square riots 30 years ago saved China from the disintegration that befell Russia in the 1990s and made their economic miracle possible. The Hong Kong rioters should be dealt with in a similar fashion.

People who act as the conscious or unwitting agents of hostile foreign powers intent on the destruction of their country should expect no quarter. They deserve none.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar

About time Americans got some of their own medicine. How about funding dome violence inside the Beltway? Ditto at City Hall in NYC, Sacramento and Chicago.

Amazing how outraged they will get, those deeply religious saints in The New World…..

vexarb
vexarb

mark: “If [Bashar Assad, MD] had reacted with similar ruthlessness in 2011, he could have saved Syria incalculable suffering.”

Not at all; by “reacting with similar ruthlessness” (to that of his father) Dr.Assad would only have handed the Anglo Zio Capitalists a slightly less specious pretext to carve up Syria under “Right to Protect”. Remember that NATZO (the armed wing of the AZC) had already recruited half a million ISIS mercenaries from 80 countries around the world — rather more footsoldiers than Napoleon prepared for his invasion of Moscow, and with a similar unhappy ending for both Nappy and the AZC. I say this not “with the benefit of hindsight” but as someone who for years has consistently defended the wisdom of Dr.Assad’s humane policy in this and similar Truther sites. If Bashar Assad MD and his equally enlightened wife Asme had been mere ruthless spillers of blood like the Clinton Macbeth couple, or a mere CIA-installed dictator like Sadam, then the people of Syria would never have rallied round their Leader.

For proven benefits to Syria’s struggle from Dr.Assad’s enlightened policy of clemency plus realism see a couple of recent reports ‘from the real world” BTL this thread.

nottheonly1
nottheonly1

Not at all; by “reacting with similar ruthlessness” (to that of his father) Dr.Assad would only have handed the Anglo Zio Capitalists a slightly less specious pretext to carve up Syria under “Right to Protect”.

It is important to remember that the Western regimes already had planned the overthrow of the Assad government. As part of a ‘restructuring’ of the Middle East, any secular and democratic government had to be destroyed and replaced with fascist regimes.

Thus is the depravity of the Western fascists, that they program their populations into believing everything they spout. For a psychologist, alone the repeated use of ‘regime change’ is a dead giveaway. Most people do not possess the ability to think this term through. The truth is a tree with bitter roots – but its fruits are sweet.

It really did not matter what Assad would have, or could have done. That is the truth. Even if he would have employed a secret police that would have adhered to all aspects of humanity – e.g. to only act secretly in order to find and arrest the terrorists, without treating them the same way these terrorists treated the population and police forces, bringing them before a court of justice to find out whether their activities constituted crimes against the laws of Syria, or crimes against humanity – it still would have not mattered. Assad and the Syrian government had never a chance against the fascist Western regimes and their helper Nations. Only the joining of the conflict by Russia and the full militarization as the ultimate solution worked to some degree. People should know though, that fascist regimes never give up their sadistic ways by talking to them that their ways are crimes against humanity. History shows that in all clarity.

William HBonney

The report failed to explain or even comment on how intact sarin could have persisted for so long in the open.

So much wrong with this piece, it’s hard to know where to start, but here will do. From the Wikipedia page on Sarin

The initial breakdown of sarin is into isopropyl methylphosphonic acid (IMPA), a chemical that is not commonly found in nature except as a breakdown product of sarin (this is useful for detecting the recent deployment of sarin as a weapon)

The author is so invested in the innocence of Assad, that they didn’t do their homework. It is eminently possible to dislike your government without siding with some of the worst monsters in history… Two independent thoughts…

Baron
Baron

Next time, before you comment, read the narrative you want to comment on, William, move your lips if that helps.

William HBonney

No rebuttal then? Why are OffG commentators so crap?

Cascadian
Cascadian

Because sometimes it is necessary to fight fire with fire.

JudyJ
JudyJ

WHB

You succeed in contradicting your own contention. You appear to have overlooked the key word in the extract which you are so quick to disparage:

intact

. Dictionary definition of ‘intact’ is “untouched, especially by anything that harms or diminishes”.

According to the Wikipedia extract you quote, identifying the presence of the breakdown product of sarin (IMPA) is

“useful for detecting the recent deployment of sarin as a weapon”.

So, in other words, sarin breaks down relatively quickly and cannot remain ‘intact’ for any length of time, being reduced to IMPA.

It is therefore perfectly legitimate and justifiable to observe that

The report failed to explain or even comment on how intact sarin could have persisted for so long in the open.

SO.
SO.

Correct.

GB Agent (Sarin) breaks down to IMPA and then MPA depending on production technique and corresponding impurities within a few weeks to month’s in ideal storage conditions.

In the environment the compound breaks down in about 2 days (at 20 degrees C) to about 5-7 days at 5 degrees C.

In the body the breakdown to IMPA takes approximately 20 minutes.

William HBonney

Intact, or not, the use of Sarin is not undetectable, as you would prefer it to be.

JudyJ
JudyJ

I am more than happy for sarin to be detectable if it helps to support the convictions of many that the ‘moderate’ rebels have made use of supplies available to them, as has been contended over the years.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-sold-by-britain/5636698

William HBonney

It is always interesting to research the reputation of sites that commentators here link to. Here is the wiki on the one you did

Globalresearch is an “anti-Western” website that can’t distinguish between serious analysis and discreditable junk — and so publishes both. It’s basically the moonbat equivalent to Infowars or WND.

While some of GlobalResearch’s articles discuss legitimate humanitarian concerns, its view of science, economics, and geopolitics is conspiracist — if something goes wrong, the Jews West didit! The site has long been a crank magnet: If you disagree with “Western” sources on 9/11, or HAARP, or vaccines, or H1N1, or climate change, or anything published by the “mainstream” media, then GlobalResearch is guaranteed to have a page you will love.

The website (under the domain names globalresearch.ca(link), globalresearch.org(link), globalresearch.com(link), and sister site mondialisation.ca(link)) is run by the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG) founded by Michel Chossudovsky,[2][3] a former professor of economics at the University of Ottawa, Canada.[4]

Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites GlobalResearch, they are almost certainly wrong.

Do not confuse Globalresearch with globalnews.ca, which is a perfectly ordinary news site.

So, in effect, you go ‘shopping’ for ‘news’ sources that support your view, however disreputable they are. You may as well have cited the Beano.

Ramdan
Ramdan

This response is a ‘precious’ example of what can be achived through brainwashing and propaganda.

It is a sad condition which affects not only the one writing that response, but a large portion of the population from western, rich countries.

ZigZag Wanderer
ZigZag Wanderer

RationalWiki is a trusted source ? you have my sympathy.

William HBonney

RationalWiki is a trusted source ? you have my sympathy.

Well you are always free to edit the entry if you don’t agree.

David Macilwain
David Macilwain

We aren’t talking about Sarin W.H – we are talking about fabrication and the murder of captives to use as film extras. Seeing as the Syrian army and its allies never used Sarin or Chlorine, even against terrorists for the simple reason that it is useless militarily, your persistence in looking for evidence of its use in Syria will only lead to the incrimination of those making the claims.
why don’t you post your comments on the pages of the Guardian, where such silly views have currency?

David Bishop
David Bishop

If it wasn’t for plonkers like WHB these comments wouldn’t be nearly as entertaining.

George
George

It’s interesting that you said “Here is the wiki” and not “Here is the Rationalwiki”. Also interesting that even Rationalwiki puts “anti-Western” in scare quotes – as if they too are embarrassed by this shameless appeal to patriotic jingoism.

mark
mark

Entire armies of hasbara trolls do so.

JudyJ
JudyJ

Rather than focus on what you deem to be the ‘generic’ credibility of the website, you would do well to focus on who and what they cite as evidence for their viewpoint: in this case the UN’s Carla del Ponte, BBC Newsnight’s report on a UK Foreign Office document revealing the UK’s sarin link to the Syrian ‘rebels’, and the US State Department. Just because such information appears on multiple websites that you might choose to disapprove of doesn’t automatically invalidate its worth unless you are saying all these sources were lying.

mark
mark

Global Research, like Assange, Snowden, and any independent media of integrity, has long been targeted by Bellingcat type paid shills and hacks. Their smears should be worn as a badge of honour.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

Have you seen the news about the Grace1 ? If not scroll up Judy and search Vexarb’s comment!

Wholly significant,
behind the scenes, lol
where was your MP on Holiday ? 🙂
Just jesting,
Warmest regards,
Yim

JudyJ
JudyJ

Hi Tim,

Thanks for this. Yes, I’ve been following the matter closely. I was interested to see that Gibraltar are claiming that the release was conditional upon Iran reputedly having signed an agreement that they “wouldn’t deliver the oil to Syria in contravention of EU sanctions”. Iran on the other hand claim that no such agreement was signed as (a) the oil hadn’t been destined for Syria anyway and (b) even if it had been destined for Syria, no other country has the right to stop the trade. I am glad to see Iran maintaining this point on the legality question, as they could simply have stopped short at stating it hadn’t been heading for Syria.

As you know, but for the benefit of other readers, I wrote to my MP several weeks ago seeking details of the legal basis for the seizure of the tanker and the silence has been deafening. It will be interesting to see where the tanker does end up. If it does proceed to Syria I am not sure that would be a wise move in view of the US and allies desperation for conflict, no matter how much I like to see countries standing up to the bully boys.

Another positive aspect of this is that the release was apparently granted in rebuttal of a US ‘request’ that the detention continue.

Kind regards
J.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins

Love you JudyJ 😉 But we should restrain ourselves from giving the clinically proven sociopath too much recognition and attention, that which he cravingly seeks, like an intellectually demented dwarf … though the temptation is inextricably huge, just know better and ignore the poor soul, depriving him of the very oxygen that he needs to earn his wages 😉

Balderdash
Balderdash

Is that how the investigators proceeded? And would there be significant amounts of that acid left on a metal casing after 9 months exposed to the elements? The committee didn’t visit the gassing site to take soil samples, in which traces of that acid may have been found. Did they? They were relying on a very interested party to provide them with the evidence.

George
George

You are talking about what sarin breaks down into but the report said “intact sarin”. And on a related note:

“A non sequitur is a conclusion or reply that doesn’t follow logically from the previous statement. You’ve probably heard an example of a non sequitur before, therefore bunny rabbits are way cuter than chipmunks. Non sequiturs are often used for comedic effect in movies, novels, and TV shows.”

Have you ever considered a career in stand-up comedy, Billy Boy?

lundiel
lundiel

Excellent article, logical and to the point……and will be ignored.

JudyJ
JudyJ

The original longer article (see link at the end of the above shorter version) was published in June and was completely ignored then. I read it at the time and would implore everyone to read it to see the full extent of the malfeasance of the OPCW. I would especially point to the profiles of Mssrs Braha, Barrek and Phillips if you want to see jaw-dropping incriminatory evidence.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym

Keep spreading this report around. It will make way, even with the lamestream corpohacks ignoring it.

And remember to strangle the ‘Bonney’ troll(s) by total shunning. He/She/They aim to derail your conversation about the actual subject: the mendacity of OPCW; it’s wholesale loss of credibility and honour. If you read, answer or engage in any way with their sewage flow, they’ve achieved something of their aim. And it’s dead easy to skip over. Haven’t read any ‘Bonney’ shite at all for weeks now! :O)

George
George

This matter of ignoring logically argued and evidenced essays is one indication of a much larger contempt for the truth. I mentioned the fraud known as the Nayirah testimony. This unbelievable scam (an echo of the old soldiers/babies juxtaposition that seems to go all the way through propaganda – at least as far back as World War 1) was rumbled shortly after the first Gulf war ended. But the book “Weapons of Mass Deception” by Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber shows a very instructive epilogue:

“….. the babies-from-incubators story did resurface briefly in December 2002, when HBO television premiered a “based on a true story” docudrama titled “Live From Baghdad,” which recounted the adventures of Peter Arnett and other CNN reporters during Operation Desert Storm. “Live From Baghdad” included actual footage of Nayirah delivering her false testimony and left viewers with the impression that the story was true. In response to complaints generated by the media-watch organization FAIR, HBO added a disclaimer at the end of the credits, which admits that “allegations of Iraqi soldiers taking babies from incubators . . . were never substantiated.” Of course, that disclaimer was noticed only by those few viewers who read all the credits.”

Note the disingenuousness of that “allegations of Iraqi soldiers taking babies from incubators . . . were never substantiated”. Of course this is true. But the reason they were never substantiated is that they were an utter fraud.

But there’s more:

“Prior to the addition of the disclaimer, Washington Post TV critic Tom Shales reviewed “Live From Baghdad” and wrote, “The horror wreaked on Kuwait is brought back vividly during a sequence in which [CNN producer Robert] Wiener and his team travel to Kuwait to investigate allegations that Iraqi troops had ripped babies out of incubators as part of their plundering—remember?””

Ah yes – the viewer is prompted to “remember” i.e. to relive that bit of warmongering brainwashing.

This one matter sums up the vileness of the propaganda machine better than anything else. They lied. They were found out. And then they just repeated the lie – with a few grudging disclaimers stuck away where few would notice.

mark
mark

During WW1, we had the “human bodies turned into soap” stories.
During WW2, we had the “human bodies turned into soap and lamp shades” stories.
The old favourites are always the best.

Around 1800, the British Government put out stories that Napoleon had only one testicle.
The same story was put out about Hitler in WW2.
The old favourites are always the best.