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Jeffrey Epstein and the Spectacle of Secrecy

Edward Curtin

Photo by chris panas on Unsplash

When phrases such as “the deep state” and “conspiracy theory” become staples of both the corporate mainstream media and the alternative press, we know the realities behind these phrases have outlasted their usefulness for the ruling elites that control the United States and for their critics, each of whom uses them refutably or corrobatively.“When I make a word do a lot of work like that,” said Humpty Dumpty, “I always pay it extra.”

Only by stepping outside this narrative frame with its vocabulary can we begin to grasp the truth here in our Wonderland of endless illusions.

Death, sex, power, intrigue, murder, suicide – these are the staples of the penny press of the 19th century, Joseph Pulitzer’s New York World, Hearst’s New York Journal, the tabloids, today’s mass media, and the CIA.

People hunger for these stories, not for the real truth that impacts their lives, but for the titillation that gives a frisson to their humdrum lives. It is why post-modern detective stories are so popular, as if never solving the crime is the point.

To say “we will never know” is the mantra of a postmodern culture created to keep people running in circles. (Note the commentaries about the Jeffrey Epstein case.) Elusive and allusive indeterminacy characterizes everything in the culture of postmodernity.

Robert Pfaller, a professor at the University of Art and Industrial Design in Linz, Austria and a founding member of the Viennese psychoanalytic research group “stuzzicandenti,” put it clearly in a recent interview:

The ruling ideology since the fall of the Berlin Wall, or even earlier, is postmodernism. This is the ideological embellishment that the brutal neoliberal attack on Western societies’ welfare (that was launched in the late 1970s) required in order to attain a “human”, “liberal” and “progressive” face. This coalition between an economic policy that serves the interest of a tiny minority, and an ideology that appears to “include” everybody is what Nancy Fraser has aptly called “progressive neoliberalism”. It consists of neoliberalism, plus postmodernism as its ideological superstructure.

The propagandists know this; they created it.

They are psychologically astute, having hijacked many intelligent but soul-less people of the right and left to do their handiwork.

Money buys souls, and the number of those who have sold theirs is numerous, including those leftists who have been bought by the CIA, as Cord Meyer, the CIA official phrased it so sexually in the 1950s: we need to “court the compatible left.” He knew that drawing leftists into the CIA’s orbit was the key to efficient propaganda.

For so many of the compatible left, those making a lot of money posing as opponents of the ruling elites but taking the money of the super-rich, the JFK assassination and the truth of September 11, 2001 are inconsequential, never to be broached, as if they never happened, except as the authorities say they did.

By ignoring these most in-your-face events with their eyes wide shut, a coterie of influential leftists has done the work of Orwell’s crime-stop and has effectively succeeded in situating current events in an ahistorical and therefore misleading context that abets U.S. propaganda.

The debate over whether Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide or not is a pseudo-debate meant to keep people spinning their wheels over nothing. It attracts attention and will do so for many days to come. There are even some usually astute people suggesting that he may not be dead but might have been secretly whisked off somewhere and replaced with a dead look-alike.

Now, who would profit from suggesting something as insane as this?

The speculation runs rampant and feeds the spectacle. Whether he was allowed to kill himself or was killed makes little difference.

It’s akin to asking who pulled the trigger that killed President Kennedy. That’s a debate that was intended to go nowhere, as it has, after it became apparent that Lee Harvey Oswald surely did not kill JFK. John Kennedy’s murder in broad daylight in public view is the paradigmatic event of modern times. It is obvious to anyone that gives minimal study to the issue that it was organized and carried out by elements within the national security state, notably the CIA.

Their message was meant to be unequivocal and clear: We can kill him and we can kill you; we are in full control; beware. Then they went on to kill others, including RFK and MLK. It takes little intelligence to see this obvious fact, unless you wish not to or are totally lost in the neighborhood of make-believe.

As it was with Jack Ruby killing Lee Harvey Oswald, so it is with Epstein. There will be no trial. Nothing is really hidden except the essential truth. Guess, debate, wonder, watch, read to your sad heart’s content. You will have gotten nowhere unless you step outside the frame of the reigning narrative.

A corollary example of another recent national headline grabber, the Mueller investigation, is apropos here.

Douglass Valentine, expert on the CIA and author of The CIA as Organized Crime, said in a recent interview that in all the endless mass media discussions of the Mueller investigation, one obvious question was never asked: What is the CIA’s role in it all? It was never asked because the job of the corporate mass media is to work for the CIA, not to expose it as a nest of organized criminals and murderers that it is.

What is important in the Epstein case is the deep back story, a tale that goes back decades and is explored by Whitney Webb in a series of fine articles for the Mint Press.

Read her articles and you will see how Epstein is just the current manifestation of the sordid history of the American marriage between various factions of the American ruling elites, whose business is sexual exploitation as a fringe benefit of being willing members of the economic and military exploitation of the world. A marriage of spies, mafia, intelligence agencies, sexual perverts, foreign governments, and American traitors who will stop at nothing to advance their interests.

It is a hard story to swallow because it destroys the fairy tale that has been constructed about American “democracy” and the decency of our leaders.

Webb’s articles are not based on secret documents but on readily available information open to a diligent researcher. It’s known history that has been buried, as is most history in a country of amnesiacs and educational illiterates. The average person doesn’t have Webb’s skill or time to pull it all together, but they can read her illuminating work. Often, however, it is the will to truth that is lacking.

While Webb places the Epstein matter in an historical context, she does not “solve” the case, since there is nothing to solve. It is another story from a long litany of sex/espionage stories openly available to anyone willing to look. They tell the same story.

Like many commentators, she draws many linkages to the Israeli Mossad’s long-standing connections to this criminal under and over world in the United States and throughout the world. She writes:

Ultimately, the picture painted by the evidence is not a direct tie to a single intelligence agency but a web linking key members of the Mega Group [a secretive group of Jewish billionaires, including Epstein’s patron Leslie Wexner], politicians, and officials in both the U.S. and Israel, and an organized-crime network with deep business and intelligence ties in both nations.

If anything is obvious about the Epstein case, it is that he was part of a sexual blackmail operation tied to intelligence agencies. Such blackmail has long been central to the methods of intelligence agencies worldwide and many arrows rightfully point to the Mossad.

However, while throughout Webb’s articles she draws linkages that lead to the Mossad, she only suggests CIA connections. This is similar to but milder than a point made in an article written by Philip Giraldi, a former CIA counter-terrorism specialist, Did Pedophile Jeffrey Epstein Work for Mossad? Giraldi writes that the CIA “would have no particular motive to acquire an agent like Epstein.” This makes no sense.

Of course, they would. The CIA and the FBI have a long record of such activities, and to hold such a club over the heads of presidents, senators, et al to make sure they do their bidding is obviously a strong motivation.

Valentine’s point about not asking the question about the CIA’s involvement in the Mueller investigation pertains. Does Giraldi believe that the Mossad operates independently of the CIA? Or that they don’t work in tandem? His statement is very strange.

The CIA is organized crime, and if Epstein is Mossad connected, he is CIA also, which is most likely. No one like Epstein could have operated as he did for decades without being sustained and protected.

Now that he is dead there will be no trial, just as there will be no mainstream media or justice department revelations about the CIA or Mossad.

There will be a lot of gibberish about conspiracy theories and the open secret that is the spectacle of secrecy will roll on.

There will, of course, be much sex talk and outrage. We will anxiously await the movie and the TV “exposés.” Most people will know, and pretend they don’t, that the country is ruled by gangsters who would pimp their mothers if it served their interests.

Those of us who oppose these criminals – and there are growing numbers all over the world – must avoid being sucked into the establishment narratives and the counter-narratives they spawn or create. We must refuse to get involved in pseudo-debates that are meant to lead nowhere. We must reject the language created to confuse.

If revolutionary change is to come, we must learn to tell a new story in language so beautiful, illuminating, and heart-rending that no one will listen to the lying words of child molesters, mass murderers, and those who hate and persecute truth-tellers.

As John Berger said, “In storytelling everything depends on what follows what. And the truest order is seldom obvious.”

Edward Curtin writes, and his writing on varied topics has appeared widely over many years. He writes as a public intellectual for the general public, not as a specialist for a narrow readership. He believes a non-committal sociology is an impossibility and therefore sees all his work as an effort to enhance human freedom through understanding. His website is edwardcurtin.com

Filed under: Epstein Suicide, featured, latest

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Edward Curtin writes, and his writing on varied topics has appeared widely over many years. He writes as a public intellectual for the general public, not as a specialist for a narrow readership. He believes a non-committal sociology is an impossibility and therefore sees all his work as an effort to enhance human freedom through understanding. His website is edwardcurtin.com

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Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

As a longtime lurker I just want to emerge from the dark to express huge appreciation for how this site deals with the tricky issue of free speech versus disruptive trolling. I have literally not seen another site that has trodden that thin line as delicately and as respectfully.

The admins’ patience in the face of personal abuse and truly horrible expressions of bigotry is almost superhuman. I don’t know how you do it. I couldn’t. I’ve been on the verge of replying to some of the revolting trolls that have emerged recently but always shrank from the inevitable assault I’d get in return. How you guys take the attacks on you and your wonderful site and don’t just sweep this trash into the waste bin is astonishing.

I’m writing this because I keep seeing the same half dozen upvotes being attached to all the racist stuff you have to deal with, while very few of the many readers bother to tell you you’re doing good. Just want you to know the silent ,majority is grateful – well, I assume most of us are.

Thank you for what you do.

Admin
Admin
Admin

We’re so touched by this we’re pinning it. Thank you Mandy. We try our best. 😔

mark
mark

I’ll give you some “truly horrible expressions of bigotry.”

Palestinians are:- “beasts walking on two legs” (Begin), “drugged cockroaches in a bottle” (Eitan), “hungry crocodiles” (Barak), who “must be crushed like grasshoppers” (Shamir).

Truly horrible racist stuff.

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

What is it with you Mark, that you keep just bringing up the same four or six quotes from the most bigoted Jews you can find who are mostly dead? I am curious what you think it proves about anything?

Sure there are lunatics and there are racists and some of both are Jews, just as some are not Jews. Taking the words of the racist Jews and using that to fire up your own racist hate of all Jews, even those like me who think Begin was a one-eyed lunatic, is a waste of your life and breeds nothing but more hate. I hope God grants you peace in your heart, Mark.

mark
mark

These are not four random annoying saloon bar bores blowing off steam after one too many. They are three successive prime ministers and the head of the armed forces. Four typical political and military leaders. You could say the same about any other political and military figures. Or religious figures like the Chief Rabbi. This is normal and routine. There is a great deal that is far worse, like “Justice” Minister Shaked, who called for all Palestinian mothers to be murdered so that no Palestinian children could be born. Or a national newspaper called The Times of Israel openly advocating the extermination of the Palestinian people at concentration camps in the desert, “When Genocide Is Justified.” Or two leading rabbis calling for the murder of all Palestinian children.

Imagine that Cameron, or May, or Johnson, called Jews cockroaches or grasshoppers, let alone calling for Jews to be murdered. And every leading UK politician and military figure had done the same as a matter of routine for decades. Imagine the outrage. Rightly so.

I would never call Jews cockroaches. But ALL these Zionist figures ROUTINELY speak of Palestinians in these terms. This is completely normal. And nobody so much as raises an eyebrow. It is perfectly okay for the Chosen Folk to do this.

That is the point. It would be of benefit to the world if there was a little peace in the hearts of these people as well.

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

I didn’t say they were insignificant I said they were regarded by most sensible Jews that I know as lunatics.

Begin did not speak for most Jews while he was alive and certainly doesn’t now he’s dead. I’m sure he liked to think he did, but why believe that racist schmuck? Ditto for Binyamin, who is as stupid and racist as he is crazy.

Like I said you might as well quote Hitler or Goebbels as being representative of today’s Germany or claim they speak for all gentiles everywhere unless individuals specifically state otherwise. I was born a Jew, my kids were born Jews, we didn’t volunteer to join! We should not need to officially repudiate Zionism or the crazy ravings of our leaders past or present in order to be assumed good people, any more than you, Mark, should have to repudiate Nazism or Mr Churchill’s racism or mr Johnson’s anti-Russian schtick to be considered a good person.

I would like to see a good study of Zionism here, I support the Palestinians in their struggle as again do many many Jews of my acquaintance (though, sadly not all I will admit). But do you not see how alienating and hurtful it is to see comments such as “the chosen people did 9/11”, or (as was talked about a short while back) “Hebrews have a tendency toward pedophilia”? Please! Have a little respect is all. Talk about the evils of Zionism but don’t conflate that with Judaism or with everyone lucky or unlucky enough to be born a Jew!

And all that oy vey goy stuff you do feels quite hurtful also, I am just curious what you think it brings to the conversation by way of enlightenment, communication and brotherly love, Mark? It just looks like you are hating on Jewishness in the same way those Nazi images of guys with hook noses etcetera did. It feels nasty. What does it achieve? Would it be a nice and helpful gesture to at least drop all that?

mark
mark

We have fringe racist groups in the UK and US and elsewhere.
But the KKK in the US just get drunk and burn a few crosses now and again. They are totally irrelevant.
If they supplied ALL the heads of state, Begin, Shamir, Sharon, Barak, Netanyahu, ALL the heads of the armed forces, ALL the religious leaders, and the media in the country, anyone with two brain cells to rub together would have to acknowledge there is a difference.

You can’t criticise ANY of these people because it “offends” AIPAC, the Board of Deputies, the Friends of Israel, and “hurts their feelings.” You are not allowed to call them out without incurring unprecedented draconian penalties unless you have first solved world hunger, global warming, criticised every other nation on the planet, and obtained a written permit from the Board of Deputies specifying exactly what terms and language you are authorised to use.

Why obsess about Talmudistan? Because it is the tail that wags the dog. It exercises a complete stranglehold over the politics and foreign policy of the US and its satellites like the UK. It incites endless wars which those countries are expected to prosecute on its behalf. It destabilises the entire planet causing indescribable suffering and human misery. It expects and receives a free pass to commit genocide and possess a huge illegal arsenal of WMD it constantly threatens to use. It extorts unimaginable amounts of tribute from other countries. It commits terrorist atrocities like 9/11 with complete impunity. Its endless intrigues and subversion poison the whole public space in entire countries. The smear campaign against Corbyn and the Epstein organisation are just two fairly trivial recent examples. Politicians and ordinary people are not required to swear loyalty oaths to Botswana or Bolivia on pain of instant dismissal. That is the difference.

A bit of kvetching about all the above seems a little bit justified under the circumstances.

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

Ok, Mark, I understand that you think Israel is a bigger racist problem than the UK and all the NATO non-democracies, and I can agree with you about that. Israel is for me and many (not all) of my family and friends a place of terrible evil and shame. I hate that the suffering of so many Jews under the Nazis has been turned into an excuse to impose more suffering on other innocent people simply because of their race. So, let’s agree Israel is indefensible in its treatment of the Palestinians and in its appalling foreign policy. Just awful.

My question is, how helpful is it to express those facts in racial terms? Why do you use these words that only have the effect of turning people away from you and closing down there receptiveness?

Ok, what I’m saying is, if you try to tell the average non-political nice well meaning Jewish person or liberal, of which my sister is a good example (both) that Israel is the aggressor nation in so many instances and if you tell them about the terrible plight of the Palestinian people it will be hard for you to get them to listen even if you don’t use words that make you sound like a racist. But as soon as you start throwing around words such as Talmudistan and “chosen folk” and mockery of Yiddish with your “oy vey goy” routine, you are giving them a route to the exit door., which is what they want. You are giving them permission to ignore you! They can say “oh what a racist”, and just leave the building.

So, my question is, why use that language? What good is it doing you that makes it worthwhile to lose so much credibility among people you could perhaps convert if you approached it differently?

I guess my question is, what does this aggressive use of offensive terms do for you that you hold on to it to the point of undoing any good you could do? Why not just say “Israel”? Why terms such as goy and chosen folk and language that can sound soooo racist and threatening?

I believe you Mark that you don’t entertain real racist thoughts, but can you communicate with me why you use that language that makes it sound as if you do? Maybe you don’t realize it but to a Jew it feels like a slap across the face. It triggers centuries of dormant fears of persecution. I have to try hard to put that aside and approach you without fear or anger. So I’m asking you, as a gesture toward understanding, to please not use those terms in our conversation? And maybe you might find you don’t need that armour, or comfort blanket or whatever it is to you. Maybe you will find your message, which as put above is something I can get on board with, gets across more clearly.

Can we take that step, Mark? I am asking with peace and love in my heart.

mark
mark

I don’t use k or y words to refer to Jews or n words to refer to blacks.
All the racism and hate speech is coming from the other direction.
It is routine and institutional and it is never called out.
Anything I say is marginal at best and just underlines the double standards involved.

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

There is not much sense of a willingness in you to close the distance between us. I believe I have done a lot to reach out to you but don’t feel I have got much in return.

You seem to have this comfort zone of guarded hostility you don’t like to leave, and you stay in it doing what amounts to repeating the same set of grievances over and over and over almost as if you do not read what I say or can’t move out of those zone of yours.

I agree with you about Israel. I agree with you the fact it is a fascist and apartheid state is not called out in the media is a disgrace. But you are not talking to the media, you are talking to me. I do call it out and so does OffGuardian in their editorial line. This is your safe space. You don’t need your armour.

I don’t understand why you don’t acknowledge that. It freezes you in a single space. If you won’t relate or emote or get human with me, with us here, nothing can change.

And look, Mark, if you’ll forgive me, don’t make the mistake of thinking a bigger crime justifies a lesser one. The fact the media is biased and permits awful racisms to go uncalled doesn’t justify lesser racisms from you. It just breeds the hate, which is probably the intention, let’s face it.

Can you step enough out of your zone to agree not to use those words on this forum where they are not necessary? I think it would help us communicate and help with harmony in this important space. Let’s celebrate the rare and beautiful free speech here with the respect of courtesy and decency to each other.

Shalom

BigB
BigB

Well, Mandy Miller …you touched me with your beautiful spirit and open, empathic communication. I wish you every success.

Shalom

mark
mark

Yep, okay.
I don’t want to insult anyone for the sake of it.
I wish you well.
Like all the Jewish people I have known over the years.

George Cornell
George Cornell

Mandy, are you suggesting that Israel’s attitude towards the Palestinians is reducible to those quotes from their leaders, racist as they are?

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

I apologize George, I would like to be able to answer your question, but I don’t think I understand it. Could you possibly make allowances for this lady not being a scholar?

George Cornell
George Cornell

No problem, Mandy. You seem to be dismissing the extreme apartheid attitude of Israel and many Jews towards the Palestinians as coming just from a few racist ex-PMs. But you know surely that is not true. As for being part of a silent majority it depends on the question. The repeated condemnation of Israel at the UN comes from well over 200 countries, all appalled at the behaviour of a population never missing an opportunity to remind of their own suffering.

World peace is greatly threatened by Israel’s attitudes and behaviour and has been for decades, as they slowly devour Palestinian land for their settlements. I have been there and it is shameful. You sound like a generous-spirited mensch and you express yourself in an agreeable and likeable way. I don’t wish to cause you offence. But people wanting world peace can come up with Israel as an obstacle regularly.

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

Oh dear, I’m so upset I expressed myself so poorly you think I’m verbally shrugging my shoulders at Israel’s crimes. No, no, nothing is further from the truth. In my circle most people have some issues with Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians though I’ll admit that’s more freely expressed inside the community than outside. Those issues extend from some worries about the children being hurt to people such as myself and my husband who are totally opposed to Israel’s racism and apartheid. I know less than six or seven people who uncritically support Israel, and they are mostly idiots, I include my sister there, God forgive me. She means well, but a thinker she isn’t. I imagine it’s different and more hardline for Israel in America. I have a cousin there but we don’t talk much. She supported Hillary in 2016 and is, if you can possibly believe it, thinking of supporting Biden in 2020. So, you know.

But anyhow I hope you get my point. No, I don’t minimize or rationalize Israel’s crimes and I’m horrified I gave the impression I did! I need to proof read!

George Cornell
George Cornell

Thanks for clarifying, Mandy. Best wishes G

Wilmers31
Wilmers31

It can be annoying to see the same stuff again and again. But please take into consideration that there are always young ones who had not heard it yet, old ones who had forgotten or others who read MSM where the editor would cut it, even if it had been correctly translated which the editor cannot check.

There can be too much, for sure, but when it’s true and it gets deleted/omitted it’s a step towards the War on Truth which we experience these days so often. Then fox is guarding the henhouse, e.g. news on details about Epstein’s premises are so sparse that you can believe in secrets that warrant guarding well.

I have been most amazed by a 5eyes committee en miniature: Brits Ghislaine and Prince Andrew, American Epstein, and Australian Katherine Keating (a former Prime Minister’s daughter). We’ve seen Ehud, just a New Zealander and Canadian missing.

George Cornell
George Cornell

As Oscar Wilde said, “tell the truth often enough and you will be found out”. This is an argument against censorship, even for the most polar stances. But as a non-contestant, I imagine doing the right thing by the Palestinians would help a lot, and much more than censorship or any amount of scolding, tut-tutting, tsk-tsking, or pooh-poohing.

Hugh O’Neill
Hugh O’Neill

In thinking about the nefarious activities of Mossad/CIA, I recall the sad case of Secretary of the Navy, James Forrestal (maybe Manchester “Death of a President” or Douglass’ “JFK & The Unspeakable”?). During the autopsy of JFK, the Kennedy team were herded into a waiting room on an upper floor of Bethesda Hospital. Somewhat bizarrely, the attendant informed them that this was the room from which James Forrestal had hurled himself to his death I.e he did an Epstein. Did he jump or was he pushed? Forrestal was deemed paranoid because he complained that he was being followed by Israeli agents, when in fact he was being followed by them. He was opposed to the splitting of Palestine and thus was not a favourite of the Zionists…

Francesca
Francesca

Another connection is that the same “celebrity pathologist” Michael Baden attended both JFK and Epstein’s autopsy.He invariably takes the official story. I would darely love to see a statistical breakdown of jail suicide hangings.I would bet that by far the majority would show death by asphyxiation rather than snapping of the neck .There simply isn’t the necessary ligature ie rope and height available in a prison cell.
Judicial hangings are carefully calibrated taking in to account the weight of the victim , the slack in the rope , the height of the drop , to ensure a clean neck snapping death
Asphyxiation (with attendant burst capillaries and eye bulging) AND neck snapping shouldn’t go together

George Cornell
George Cornell

Yes, it would have been hard to generate the force to break those neck bones from the height of a bunk bed. Those imply much force and seem inconsistent with the petechiae in the conjunctiva. The latter could result from a ‘slow” hanging belied by the fractures, unless the fractured neck did not kill him immediately and allowed circulation while he was being asphyxiated by the bedsheet, but are more typical from manual choking. But in the latter, hyoid fracture is common, but not the other fractures.

BigB
BigB

This very morning, ‘Randy Andy’ – sorry, HRH Prince Andrew – confirmed there was nothing to see in his continued relationship with Epstein. Even when he was in his home – *after* the paedophilia prosecution. They were just hangin’ [sic] …as they say on the streets of Windsor and Balmoral. Nothing to see. Move along, move along …

Ed nails it: everyone gets the Debordian Spectacle angle. I, for one, need no more convincing of the true nature of capitalism. Which brings me back to Pfaller’s meaningless usage of the term ‘Postmodernism’. We had this discussion last week: so I will only re-iterate this. The blanket use of the term says nothing useful at all. For ‘progressive neoliberalism’: I propose Mark Fisher’s term – “Capitalist Realism”. Mainly because it does supply valuable conceptual and semantic framing of sense and meaning.

As given most succinctly in the book’s (it’s an essay really) subtitle and Thatcher’s mantra – TINA (There Is No Alternative). Capitalism has totally colonised culture – in roughly the same timescale Pfaller is indicating (perhaps a bit earlier) – and shaped contemporary consciousness by commodifying and consumerising it. The ideal modern subject is the ‘consumer/spectator’ …who exercises their anti-capitalism by consuming a more ethical brand of product. In which way: capitalism subsumes its anti-capitalist antithesis …TINA. If you have a new idealism: you have to market it …and so it becomes just another brand of capitalism. It becomes a new consumerism. That’s capitalist realism. TINA.

This double-bind situationism speaks more eloquently to me than the pseudo-label ‘PoMo’ – which can mean anything to anyone – and therefore means nothing to everyone. Which brings me back to the point, as I see it, that Ed is making. We need a new alternative. Bauman, Pfaller, Zizek, Giddens, etc can argue to the cows come home about when ‘high modernity’ became ‘postmodernity’ …or did it just continue as ‘liquid modernity’ (to which I would concur) …if not that these damn meaningless terms offer little of a counterculture or liberational praxis. One that defies consumerisation.

I give you us as the answer. That which we are when we turn away – and ultimately turn off – the consumer spectacle. We are not rational self-maximisers seeking maximum market access only for ourselves. Our idolatry of greed will not provide a Kantian *summum bonum* of objective market values of welfare and wellbeing for all. That is a mendacious lie only a utopian ‘capitalist realist’ could believe. We have to seek the alternative. Now: while we are already crossing the event horizon of yet another crisis of capitalism …entering the black hole at the heart of overfinancialisation and debt deflation. We have yet to admit that it is entropy dragging us in. It’s gonna have to more than a “beautiful, illuminating, and heart-rending” story. It’s gonna have to be real world relevant and credible too.

Capitalism does not work as a culturally conditioned psychology; an ecology; or even as an economy. Each time it fails: it is restarted by a massive, never before known, transference of wealth from the poor to rich. These are waves and cycles of ‘primitive accumulation’ and ‘accumulation by dispossession’. Only utopian capitalist realists can ever believe that any of this pseudo-wealth will trickle down in any meaningful way. How can it ever be meaningful if it is essentially a meaningless inescapable void of exponential and entropic debt deflation? Capitalism is the biggest anti-utopian social engineering project in history. One that offers only a soulless, submissive Void for the consumer/spectator – TINA. That’s capitalist realism.

Nothing else matters other than avoiding this Void of capitalist realist nihilisation of humanity. Nothing. Jeffrey who?

flaxgirl

The In-N-Out staging

In an earlier comment I said that the over-the-top anomalies in the suicide story signalled that he didn’t suicide but whether he was murdered or private-planed off to an idyllic paradise it was difficult to say – perhaps someone who understood the signals better might be able to tell. I favoured (and now with this recent signalling am virtually confirmed in the belief) that he was whisked off because he would surely have a deadman’s switch in place.

I believe that this recent In-N-Out staging (that they even tell us was STAGED in capital letters) implies he just popped in for a token visit rather than was wheeled out dead on a gurney but there are at least two other sets of words we see in the photos, “Trade” and “Good Boys” plus subject of the film “Good Boys” to consider – Good Boys is a film about sexually-focused pubescent boys, said by one reviewer to be suitable for your inner 12 year-old but not necessarily your actual 12 year-old. Are they flaunting in our faces, “Hey, pubescents want sex so what’s your problem? We will keep on with our sex crimes and maintain our immunity. The power elite are all in this together so SUCK IT UP, PLEBS.”

EXCLUSIVE: Ghislaine Maxwell STAGED In-N-Out photo in Los Angeles with her close friend and attorney, using confidante’s dog Dexter in the snapshot.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7372877/Ghislaine-Maxwell-STAGED-photo-N-close-friend-attorney.html

This video by The Outer Light analyses the photoshopping of the In-N-Out photos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmh6LlIska0

In addition to the articles linked to in Edward’s article, this interview with investigative journalist, Whitney Webb, is really worth watching – it helps to cement the vast amount of information needing absorption. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBN7Xqf7rWI

We are ruled by a bunch of sadistic, child-molesting/raping/murdering, psychopaths. It’s really very scary how many people in the top echelons are into all this stuff and even the ones who aren’t necessarily into it must be complicit in protecting them. But they signal us loud and clear what they do – we have to give them that.

Mucho
Mucho

SHOCK NEWS! Well informed critical thinkers discuss Jeffrey Epstein without acting like nobs! Wowzers!

Mucho
Mucho

An intelligent conversation about #Opstein

different frank
different frank
Antonym
Antonym

Lots of Jewish sounding names in Epstein’s book; Mossad had a lot of off days 😀
Few Muslim names; Mossad had a even more off days OR they must had their own supply islands.
Where is mark when you need him?

mark
mark

Lots of Jews, certainly, lots of goys, and fake moslem people like MbS.

Fins mcgee
Fins mcgee

The Chosen Folk are so “chosen” and clever they have Lucky Larry as their 911 made billionaire poster boy bragging he gave the order to pull 7. Not to mention Epstein, flaunting his sexcapades in the so called “news” like he’s some kind of Charles in Charge. No, the one in charge is the Superior General. And the one who claims it all (you included) by Papal Bull enjoys his duper’s delight and the inquisition continues unimpeded. Of course the owner of 3/4’s of Jerusalem is never mentioned. The ruse (and who benefits) is plain as day.

Admin
Admin
Admin

The ‘chosen folk’ is a reductionist racist term. As is the ridiculous suggestion that an entire ethnicity can be blamed for the crimes of a few individuals who share that ethnicity. We’re fairly sure you don’t believe all white Anglo Saxons are responsible for every crime of the British empire. Please extend the same courtesy to Jewish people, many of whom deplore Zionism and Israel’s own racism.

crank
crank

@Admin
I don’t think this is a coherent intervention.
Ethnicity is not racial; it describes cultural, linguistic and national associations. Race is generally understood as a reference to common biological ancestry.
Jewishness might, by some be accurately described as an ethnicity, but not as a race, as there are Jews from different ‘racial groups’ (-if one subscribes to such a notion at all).
If you are going to intervene with a response like the one above, I would suggest that you go the full mile and explore in an article or three which aspects of Jewishness which relate to ethnicity and which to ideology.
‘Fins Mcgee’ denotes ‘chosenness’ as a defining ideological characteristic of those who self identify as ‘Jewish’. Writers and thinkers like Gilad Atzmon, Israel Shamir and others would be in agreement. If that is a fair summation, then anyone who strongly identifies as ‘Jewish’ is, in truth, self identifying as somehow ‘chosen’ or special or superior to non Jews.
If that is unfair or wrong, then explain yourself and explain why. Explain what is ‘Jewishness’ ?
Taking your comment as it stands as the extent of your view would mean that all criticism of Jewish ideology is, in essence, ‘racist’.

Admin
Admin
Admin

Re-read what I said and resist the temptation of needless intervention. The precise definition of Jewishness forms no part of the point and is entirely irrelevant to it.

surferdave
surferdave

Whitney Webb’s point of view seems almost correct.
It may be a ‘fringe benefit’, but for me it seems like the carrot and stick, you can enjoy the ‘fringe benefit’ while knowingly giving the power system the blackmail evidence (stick) which will sit in a safe while you keep the line, but the ‘main benefit’ (the real carrot) is that you will be given power and wealth also.
It is a voluntary rite of passage to enter the halls of the powerful.
One wonders about connections to schemes like Rhodes Scholarships as the grooming and selection process before offering the devil’s deal to the most promising tools.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

Even when he was ‘sent down’ to the cushy jail – he had it made easy. He was able to buy all he wanted. Including kiddie size girl panties! In prison!!
His charitable work was supposed to be at a charity set up just before he went in… prison guards accompanying him on his daily escapades and multi ‘chiropractory’ appointments per day were paid by him and had to dress in business suits … the records of who met have been destroyed. But the prison has had to release a whole bunch of records that still exist.
This is a exploding can of worms that doesn’t look like stopping anytime soon.

Bittersweet
Bittersweet

More New ‘AIPACs’ Popping Up

“All of the pro-Israel groups taken together constitute a veritable political juggernaut that seeks to advantage Israel and benefit it directly without regard for the damage done to American democracy and to actual U.S. interests. They should rightly be seen as organizations that regard their loyalty to the United States as negotiable, but they try to obfuscate the issue by claiming, wrongly, that there exist compelling reasons why Israel and the U.S. should continue to be best friends.

As Americans increasingly begin to appreciate how Israel is in fact a serious liability, that line will not continue to sell very well, no matter how many congressmen and tame journalists are bought and no matter how many new groups pop up like mushrooms funded by Jewish billionaires. Change is coming.”

Molloy

imho, ‘flaxgirl’ posts are frequently high quality. Also immensely informative and enjoyable.
But help me out here, please. Would not “1:34 AM” and
“6:26 AM” be in line with Langley office hours? Or, DRC office hours?
Surely, that’s an innocent enough question? And, if I am wrong, I apologise.


flaxgirl 7-2 ReplyAug 19, 2019 1:34 AM
Their message was meant to be unequivocal and clear: We can kill him and we can kill you; we are in full control; beware.
I think this is the message people don’t really get. They TELL us that it is they who are responsible loudly and clearly. According to staged-event analyst, Ole Dammegard, an insider told him that they justify their crimes against us by telling us and it is up to us to call them out. Their reasoning is that they push the onus onto us and if we don’t call them out then we’re at fault and thus they are spared karmic repercussions. Hard to credit except for the clear evidence.

The thing is though that they are only in full control because we allow them to be (with the help of their many willing and less willing collaborators, of course). It is taboo to call out the power elite for their serious crimes and we just sit there and take it and so many people simply refuse to see the clear evidence before them.

The story about Epstein’s alleged suicide is full of very obvious holes so they’re telling us he didn’t suicide – whether he was private-planed off to an island paradise or was murdered isn’t obvious to me (I’ve hardly read anything) but perhaps someone who really examined the story properly or understands their signals better could work it out.

They told us loudly and clearly that they killed JFK and they also told us loudly and clearly that Lee Harvey Oswald was not killed.

Oswald speaks the truth when he says, “I’m just a patsy”. “I’m just a patsy” has two functions: to signal the truth and, paradoxically, as propaganda aimed at skeptics to persuade us that Oswald needed to be silenced due to this indication he might spill the beans. Agents don’t spill the beans. That’s not what they do. He was hired to do his job of playing patsy and he did it, including reciting the scripted line, “I’m just a patsy.’ Why would they kill him for doing his job when they could just follow the standard practice of “sheep-dipping” him (providing a new identity)?

Even taking into account different camera angles, there is no still from the footage of him being SHOT ON LIVE TV that can match the photograph (another obvious sign – of different takes).
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/lho-shot-tvphoto-comparison.html

They also provide us with propaganda to persuade us that Jack Ruby did the killing but only very reluctantly. He was apparently “under pressure from the Mafia” and both an (unnamed) daughter of an ex-flame and an (unnamed) niece claim that he obviously couldn’t have been planning to kill him when he went to the jail because he’d brought his beloved little weenie, Sheba, with him in the car and he would never have brought Sheba if he’d really been planning on killing Oswald, knowing that he would be whisked off to the cells and thus obliged to abandon her. Doncha love it? (Completely swallowed it myself initially.) They told us Ruby was put in jail. Why on earth would they have done that to him?

flaxgirl 3-2 ReplyAug 19, 2019 6:26 AM
And just to add – we see EXACTLY the same dual function of Sirhan Sirhan’s words, “We’re all puppets.” It’s both the truth and propaganda to make skeptics believe that Sirhan Sirhan was mind-controlled into participating in this crime or something similar.

Doncha love the story of how Sirhan Sirhan came to say the words? It does make me smile.

https://jesus4rebels.blogspot.com/2013/03/sirhan-sirhan.html
Officer Frank Foster is assigned to guard Sirhan in his cell. Foster is also close to Sirhan’s age and I believe police hoped they’d hit it off and Sirhan would open up. Nothing doing. Sirhan is very friendly with Foster, but doesn’t let anything slip to give away his identity. At one point their conversation does touch on some of Sirhan’s point of view. Foster: “Maybe if circumstances were different, it would be vica versa; I’d be on the bench and you’d be over here, you never know.” Sirhan tells Foster he’s the complete opposite of his stereotype of a policeman. Foster says, “Well, in some respects, I hope you think of me as just another human being.” Sirhan says, “We’re all puppets.” I think it’s indicative that Sirhan uses the term “puppets” meaning that we’re all being controlled by outside forces, including himself.

It seems that our human psychology tends to make us amenable to being made puppets of, even or especially those, ironically, who believe absolutely nothing from authorities. Engaging with a couple of friends and my identical twin over and over about the moon landings it occurred to me that the type of person who believes nothing from authorities will be profiled by the CIA just as every other type of person is and I wondered if the first person to push the “moon landing hoax” idea, Bill Kaysing, might have been a CIA plant whose purpose was to make fools of the disbeliever-by-default type so that when the power elite actually did commit a crime such as 9/11, a Boy Who Cried Wolf type situation would occur where the disbelievers-by-default and purely evidence-based thinkers would all get tarred with the same “conspiracy theorist” brush.

And would you believe … it’s very clear that Bill Kaysing was a CIA plant. They really have a laugh with Bill. Scroll down this webpage to “Don’t believe a single word from the authorities by definition”
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/mind-control.html

When speaking recently of 9/11, one of my disbeliever-by-default friends said, “It was Israel”. I’m like, yep, you’ve swallowed the massive “it was Israel” propaganda just as they wanted you to. The anti-Israel propaganda is to help cover the staging of death and injury by making it more plausible that “outsiders” did the alleged dastardly killing (I know this because I swallowed it myself). It’s also massive distraction and misdirection. It doesn’t matter who exactly was involved (of course, Israel was involved), it was under the auspices of rogue elements within the US government and they are the people who need to be addressed first and foremost.

Molloy

….apologies to DRC. Intended ‘DNC’ office hours.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker

You really need to open your eyes as to who / what Flaxgirl really is.

Molloy

Thank you, FS. You might possibly be misreading the point I was making. Subtleties of electronic communication are easily overlooked.
Your concern is sincerely appreciated.

Molloy

e.g. ” Would not “1:34 AM” and “6:26 AM” be in line with Langley office hours? Or, DNC office hours?
Surely, that’s an innocent enough question? ”

DM me if you wish.

Molloy

@hdiauhmloam

mark
mark

9/11 was conceived, written and performed by the Chosen Folk, a large number of dual nationals, with the assistance of a few key goy stooges. It was a Zionist operation from beginning to end, a USS Liberty/ JFK writ large. The same pattern can be seen in every element of the operation. It was carried out by a Mossad network 200 strong. Lucky Larry Silverstein was the man on the ground in charge of the WTC site, and he made billions out of the atrocity. A score of moslem Lee Harvey Oswalds had a walk on part as convenient patsies. There is no “propaganda” involved. Just fact.

OffG
Admin
OffG

Your squeamish euphemisms notwithstanding, claiming ‘the Jews’ did 9/11 is ultimately just another way of shutting down rational inquiry. It’s obvious to anyone that ‘the Jews’ as an entire ethnicity did not plan 9/11, any more than ‘the Gentiles’ or ‘the Moslems’ or ‘the WASPS’ did. People are turned away by your simplistic racism and want to look no further.

You could lead with ‘Israel did it’, or ‘Mossad did it’ – points you introduce later. But no, to you ‘the Jews’ did it. All of em. Including mr Cohen three doors down who says hello to you in the street.

You are rational and insightful on many other topics yet become a self-defeating bigot whenever you discuss Jewishness – which is far more often than occasions demand.

George
George

Plus the fact that blaming “the Jews” is exactly what the propagandists want you to do. (And I refer somewhat vaguely to “propagandists” because I really mean the ruling class, who couldn’t care less about ethnicity, religion, race etc. Just as long as the wealthy keep their grip on the media and on society through their wealth.)

The game they play is getting easier to fall for and harder to resist. The more you hear those dreary repetitions about Labour anti-Semitism, the more you feel like screaming abuse at “the Jews”. And then they have you exactly where they want. Then they can point a finger at you and say (with justification) “Ah! Anti-Semitism!”

mark
mark

This is a case of setting up a ludicrous straw man.
Suppose for the sake of argument it was established that the Russian state actually did try to kill Skripal. Of course they didn’t, but assume they did.
It would be entirely legitimate to say “the Russians” did it.
This wouldn’t be racist, or bigoted, or anything else.
It wouldn’t mean that all 150 million Russians were personally involved, or approved of this action, or played an active part in it, or even that they knew of it or could care less about it.
It wouldn’t be some kind of racist trope that bus driver Mr. Ivanovich in Novosibirsk was somehow responsible.
Any more than 300 million Americans and 60 million British were personally responsible for the conspiracy to invade Iraq, or Bush’s and Blair’s criminal war of aggression.
In like manner the 9/11 atrocity was carried out by a few hundred individuals. Mostly Israeli and dual national Americans, and a significant number of Israel First stooge goys serving Zionist interests.
The vast majority of Jews and Israelis in the world played no part at all, and are just passive recipients of the cover conspiracy theories to explain it away.
This is just a smokecreen that is habitually thrown up whenever anyone connects the dots between Silverstein, a 200 strong Mossad ring, Chertoff, and so many others.

crank
crank

I don’t think anyone would seriously interpret the statement as meaning every Jewish person in the world was complicit in 9/11. I think OffGuardian Admin know this full well.
They, like many in the 9/11 truth community – let’s face it – cannot allow an honest dispassionate consideration of the facts regarding 9/11 suspects, and the consequent unavoidable conclusion that a hugely disproportionate number of them are Jewish. They are conditioned into turning away from any conclusion which might challenge the more conforting idea that ‘elements within the US secret state did 9/11’ or ‘a private intelligence network were responsible’. With honest consideration though it’s hard to dispute your conclusion with respect to the perpetrators.
As you say, the Truth is ‘antisemitic’. It stinks of hypocrisy when those who regard themselves as ‘truth tellers’ or ‘truth inquirers’ display the very same sophistry as the ones they rightly criticise when it comes to this issue.
This issue is still the key to understanding the politics of our age.

mark
mark

If you say “the Americans” or “the British” invaded Iraq in 2003 and someone tried to close down discussion by screaming “racism” they wouldn’t get much mileage out of it.
The Chosen Folk can talk about “the Arabs” or “the moslems” (all 2 billion of them) till the cows come home without so much as a raised eyebrow.
But any reference to the Chosen Folk that is not dripping with nauseating, sycophantic, lickspittle toadying, is automatically unacceptable and off limits.

OffG
Admin
OffG

Are you genuinely deranged? No one on this site is ‘sycophantic’ to anyone, and you are not being asked to be so.

As we already said once and are saying for the second and last time – you and everyone else are free here to critique Israel and individual Jewish people and any other nation or group or individual on any grounds – EXCEPT THEIR RACE

If you find that’s restrictive – well, you are a racist.

We’re asking you for the second time to leave this discussion here. Move on to something useful or interesting.

crank
crank

As we already said once and are saying for the second and last time – you and everyone else are free here to critique Israel and individual Jewish people and any other nation or group or individual on any grounds – EXCEPT THEIR RACE

Can we criticise their ideology?

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

“Their ideology”?? And what is that? I’m one of “them”. What is my ideology, pray?

I’ve read your and Mark’s attempts to twist your collective denigration of Jews into some type of political analysis. It’s like reading Nazi rationalisations of their Final Solution. “The Jews believe they are chosen. The Jews run the banking system and only look after their own, so we have to put them in camps to save the country”

How many Jews do you talk to? Do you think we all run the banking system?

I find you disgusting. I applaud OffG’s commitment to free speech, but all you do is exploit and abuse it.

mark
mark

Don’t take any notice of me, Mandy. I’m just a goy donkey. Get it straight from the horse’s mouth.

“If we get caught, they will just replace us with persons of the same cloth. So it does not matter what you do. America is a golden calf and we will suck it dry, chop it up, and sell it off piece by piece until there is nothing left but the world’s biggest welfare state that we will create and control. Why? Because it is the Will of God and America is big enough to take the hit. So we can do it again and again and again. This is what we do to countries that we hate. We destroy them very slowly and make them suffer for refusing to be our slaves.” – Netanyahu.

“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel. Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant. That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew. Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plough, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi, and eat.” – Ovadia Yosef, Chief Rabbi of Israel.

“Our Race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. Other races are beasts and insects, cattle at best. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” – Menachem Begin.

Mandy Miller
Mandy Miller

Oh what a nasty trick you try to pull. Quoting our biggest lunatics at me.

Yosef is dismissed by most sensible Jews as a crazy old bigot and racist. Begin was crazy too and a terrorist. Netanyahu? A thug and a racist fool.

I might as well put quotes up here from Hitler and Goebbels and say that means all white anglo saxons are Nazis.

What is wrong with you? Why is your response to racism to become a racist? Why do you so clearly hate me simply because I was born a Jew? I don’t hate you, I do not think you are a donkey. I don’t call you a goy. Why are you so full of such hate toward the Jewish race because some Jews are wackos? Newsflash, some white men are wackos also.

I think you have found a way to repeat up-vote your posts and those of the other racists on here. I hope so anyway, if not I am sad .

MLS
MLS

He probably re-sets his router IP and then runs about up-voting all the racist comments he and his cohorts make.

mark
mark

I don’t know anything about you and I certainly don’t hate you.
This is not a “crazy old guy”, it is the Chief Rabbi.
The leading religious figure in the Zionist theocracy.
If the Archbishop of Canterbury (another crazy old guy) had given speeches referring to “kikes” or “yids” I think you would have something to say about it.
I’m sorry to have to use those words to make the point. I wouldn’t do normally.
People wouldn’t get away with saying to you, oh he’s just a crazy old guy, that doesn’t matter.
That’s the point I’m trying to make.

crank
crank

The critcism is based on an supposed equivalence of ‘Jews’ with other racial groups. So OffG made the comparison of Anglo Saxon to Jewish in an earlier comment.
But Jewishness is (at lest in part) ideological. If it is an ethnic decription then it must also be one relating to religious ideas. Judaism is usually classed a religion with a set of laws, stories, commentaries. We cannot say the same of ‘Anglo-Saxon-ism’ so it is a false equivalence.
My point is that, in contemporary discourse, it is darn near impossible to make a critique of the ideas contained within the Torah, Mishnah, Talmud and Kabbalah or the moral/intellectual milieu which has developed out of centuries of teaching Jewish and non Jewish communities the ideas contained within these – if you do you are condemned as a racist, i.e. someone who dislikes ALL Jews simply for the fact of them being born to Jewish parents.
As far as generalisations go, I make a point of not making broad brush condemnations of ‘the Jews’. Of course there are many fine humanitarians born into Jewish communities. That doesn’t distract from the point that those who identifiy strongly with being ‘Jewish’ are idenitifying with a specific set of ideas. I think it useful to examine how such identification might impact of behaviours accross groups (including groups like MEGA)…
If Jewishness is not quintessentially about being ‘the chosen of God’ then what is its central idea? Or is it to you nothing other than an ethnic group, classification like say Gauls or Kurds ?
I have written elsewhere in OffG comments that I do not even subscribe to ‘race’ as a theory – I think that we are all basically best understood as ‘human’. I have written, and write again, that I object to Nazism for THE VERY SAME REASONS that I critique Jewishness – that is that it is based upon a supremicist set of ideas.
To answer your question, yes I do talk to Jews. I have several Jewish friends (although they do not relate to being ‘Jewish’). I quote one : “If you go around the world telling everyone that you are better than them, it’s not surprising that you stir up some resentment”.
My former partner was Jewish.
So sorry to hear that you think I am ‘disgusting’.
I hold out hope for a universalistic humanitarian response to the reality of Jewish power, which isn’t helped by bringing the conversation down to personal abuse.

OffG
Admin
OffG

You are perfectly free to critique Zionism, the Torah or any aspect of Judaism as a belief system. But when you start claiming every Jew ”must” be a Zionist or they would not identify as a Jew you’re using Goebbels-level sophistry to paint a thin intellectual veneer on a direct incitement to race-hate.

Avoid that and you can discuss matters Judaic until the cows come home.

crank
crank

But when you start claiming every Jew ”must” be a Zionist or they would not identify as a Jew you’re using Goebbels-level sophistry to paint a thin intellectual veneer on a direct incitement to race-hate.

Where have I written that?
I have not, and you are inflaming the argument by making such a false accusation and trying to associate me with Nazi thinking.
I am echoing the arguments of Atzmon. Maybe you think he is a Nazi?
There is a core idea to Jewish identity that comes from its religious antecedent. Jews are not genetically programmed to think or act in any particular way. There IS a cultural programming though (as there is with all people’s indoctrination – it is part of being raised in human communities). It is therefore legitimate to examine what that cultural influence is, what are the ideas at its heart. In Leftwing circles this process has carried on at length with regard to other social groups, but, it seems, not for Jews – as that has always been off limits.
If you are to try to understand Zionism or the disproportiate representation and influence of Jews in American politics, or the network of Mossad subversion in the Epstein story, then it is quite legitimate to ask, ‘Is there something about how these individuals think about their place in the world, or how they network and relate to each other ?’
The simple fact is that a great majority (no, not ALL) of those who self identify as Jewish do regard Israel as a key part of their identity. Even when they do not live there. How can you tackle the issue of ‘dual loyalty’ raised recently in mass media circles without delving into Jewish identity and what it actually means?

OffG
Admin
OffG

You’ve had it made clear there is -contrary to your somewhat abusive allegation – NO embargo on discussing any aspect of Jewish creed. We suggest you go ahead and make the analysis you consider important and step away from further attempts at self-justification.

Admin
Admin
Admin

The one using straw men here is you.

Your comparison of your words to someone saying ‘the Russians did it’ is bogus. You didn’t say ‘the Israelis did it.’ You said ‘the chosen folk’.

A direct comparison to that would be if you said ‘the Slavs did it.’

And that would indeed be both grossly racist and completely stupid.

And please stop trying to pretend you’re some kind of persecuted hero who’s being picked on because we don’t want to critique Israel. It’s pathetic.

Look at our output, you fool. We condemn Israel and its fascism ALL THE TIME.

By all means discuss Silverstein’s role in 9/11, which was pivotal and probably immensely evil. By all means discuss Israel’s potential role in 9/11 which may have been equally pivotal.

You’re completely free to critique Israel and individual Jewish people for anything – except their racial identity.

The problem is you do little else.

@crank – If you can’t see the racism in blaming ‘the chosen folk’ for 9/11 we can’t help you.

This discussion is now over. Any attempts to divert the thread further will be treated as trolling.

Hugh O'Neill
Hugh O'Neill

Well said, Admin. There have been too many disturbing and sometimes violent comments recently which taints everything that is wonderful about Offguardian. Let’s not give ammunition to the Establishment.

Antonym
Antonym

mark facts.

9/11 for a few billion $$, easy money?

His “facts” plead CIA and FBI elements free as perps these cases; at maximum they were sleeping at the wheel before plus blind afterwards.

Thanks from Langley and Washington. From Riyadh and Islamabad too.

Oliver
Oliver

Sir Frank Lowey involved with Silverstein. Strange he got a knighthood.

mark
mark

It’s all in a day’s lying for our chums at the WAPO – they’ve been peddling Russiagate BS without a hint of embarrassment for the past 3 years. Russiagate, Skripal, Iraq Incubator Babies, Syria Gas Hoaxes, it’s all pretty much of a muchness. One lie and one hoax succeeds another. The fake MSM is about to spearhead a Corbyn type smear campaign against Trump over racism to try to sabotage his re election chances.

Of course he is racist, but they don’t have a problem with racism. They’re happily non stop cheerleading for racism by the Chosen Folk in Talmudistan.

Molloy

…..more slightly suspicious regurgitation of the global elite’s Epstein-vicarious-intimidation-criminality and reinforcing false narratives.
Dare I suggest, again. More than ever rely on one’s own trusted judgement and common sense; and Not Be Told What To Think.
Many very bright writers on here are apparently still scrabbling around to be told what to think by ‘some external medium’. Surrounded by high quality criminal propaganda and psyops, sadly, there is no ‘external’ which is 100% trusted.

For me, what works, is to believe very little. If you have to believe anything, believe the opposite of what the entirely crooked corporate MSM say. Critical analysis, not ideology, is what counts.
Thanks, OffG.

George Cornell
George Cornell

The WaPo just published an article entitled:

“Attorney general ousts acting head of Bureau of Prisons amid fallout from Jeffrey Epstein’s death”

Your hearts will be warmed by the comments section.

I read the first 30. They were unanimously contemptuous! No one seems to believe the fantastic tale conjured up by the MSM. They may have finally shot themselves where it is going to hurt.

George Cornell
George Cornell

“Epstein’s death has already led to a shake-up at the federal detention center where he was being held. The warden of the Metropolitan Correctional Center was reassigned, and the two guards who were supposed to be checking on his cell were placed on leave. Union officials have said such a death was inevitable because of the short staffing and forced overtime that guards are working.” – WaPo

Absolutely Draconian , Draconian, I say. Shake-up? Already? Reassigned? Placed on leave? Quoting union officials?

This is more than brutal. They’re still humans and Gods creatures, after all. This is vicious sadism! Especially the reassignment. Oh the humanity!
They are clearly over-reacting. Where is the Society to Prevent Cruelty to Criminals when you need ‘em.

Antonym
Antonym

Ok, that means that the UK should not send Assange to the US.
Belmarch is probably capable too…

George Cornell
George Cornell

Send him to Belmarsh? Really? Stockholm more like.

Maggie
Maggie

Better still George, it will be interesting to see where this goes:

This 4chan post was posted at 8:44 AM ET 10 minutes before the story broke to the public via @AaronKatersky on twitter at 8:53 AM. Post number: 222520257 on /pol/. Not lending any credence to this story but it was posted before anyone knew Epstein was dead. Decide for yourself.
Anonymous ID Swam wrote
Sat 10th Aug 2019 8.44
Not saying anything after this, please do not try and dox me but last night after 0415 count, they took him to medical in a wheelchair front cuffed, but not one triage nurse says they spoke to him. Next thing we know a trips van shows up. We don’t release on weekends unless a judge orders it. Next thing we know he’s put in a single man cell and ”hangs himself?”
Here’s the thing, the trip van didn’t even sign in, and we did not record the plate number.. and a guy in a green dress military outfit was in the back of the van, according to thetower guy who let him thru the gate.
You guys, I m shaking right now – but I think they switched him out…
https://twitter.com/TribunalReport/status/1160193348256358400

The two photos in this next piece are of completely different men. The nose, the ears, the eyes and eyebrows and the hair pattern. Epstein’s hair grew back at the sides not forward and had a long face..
The dead guy looked Hispanic and had been dead some time.
https://sonsoflibertymedia.com/report-prison-workers-post-10-minutes-before-media-reported-epsteins-death-guy-in-green-dress-military-outfit-switched-him-out/

George Cornell
George Cornell

Very suspicious, I agree. I think E is dead but not the man pictured.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker

Makes sense that he’s now on his island, after the FBI checked it to make sure he was not there, and that was made all public. Now he can live his days out there.

Why? Because if anything happened to him the Dead Man’s switch would be released. And in the legal system he’ll be forced to out at least some well known people, so they switch him I think.

Willem
Willem

‘As Cord Meyer, the CIA official phrased it so sexually in the 1950s: we need to “court the compatible left.” He knew that drawing leftists into the CIA’s orbit was the key to efficient propaganda.’

True. Perhaps readers will like this expose of Noam Chomsky as one of those left courtiers (in regards to promoting war, keeping the voting system intact, and not understanding what a movement is about)

https://lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2019/03/04/noam-chomsky-and-the-compatible-left-part-i/

Gary
Gary

Willem – thanks for sharing the link on Chomsky & the compatible left. I just finished the segment you shared and will plan to read the remaining 3 parts as it strikes me as quite well reasoned and documented. Appreciate you sharing the link.

Fins mcgee
Fins mcgee

So is the Mossad running kinky sex-rings at the Vatican? Does Israel run a fearsome ‘lobby’ in Rome making sure the Vatican does what is in its national interest? No, it would seem not. For that matter, was their ever a Jefferey Epstein figure in the Vatican gathering dirt on ranking members of the Catholic clergy?
We are all heretics now and, as always, the inquisition continues, only renamed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for some odd reason.

mark
mark

Is Mossad running kinky sex rings?
Is the Pope Catholic?
Does river water flow downstream?
Do bears s*it in the woods?

crank
crank

This is about the nature of the relationship between Mossad and the CIA. This side of the curtain we can only make guesses as to how that is actually arranged.
Curtin seems confused by Webb’s and Giraldi’s emphasis upon the ‘arrows’ of the Epstein case pointing toward Mossad, and their de-emphasis on the likelihood of the CIA taking leadership in the Epstein blackmail ring he regards as ‘strange’,
I have to say that I think Curtin’s assessment is more ‘strange’ than Giraldi’s or Webb’s. Most of the characters mentioned in Webb’s pieces (and – it should be mentioned, in Ryan Dawson’s earlier work on this network) are Jewish, pro-Israel Americans, with provable links to Mossad.
Perhaps another section of his essay draws focus on why Curtin diverges:
It is obvious to anyone that gives minimal study to the issue that it was organized and carried out by elements within the national security state, notably the CIA.

Is it obvious though ?
I wonder if Edward has read Piper’s work on the subject? Is there an evidential rebuttal of the latter’s thesis? This posits that the prime motivation for killing Kennedy was not his (disputed) opposition to national security objectives but his opposition to Israel’s nuclear ambitions ?
Does the figure of Aaron Milchen bear any weight upon our cultural acceptance of the idea that “”the CIA killed Kennedy”” ? Do Angleton’s motivations warrant consideration? I could go on…it’s in Piper’s book.
What do we even mean when we say ‘the CIA’ ?
They are described as a kind of crime syndicate who can act above the law in the interests of corporate America. But how does that stay organised?
The notion that the agency (as is the case with the executive) has been infiltrated and subverted by people with nationalist loyalty not to the USA but to Israel, explains a lot of things.
9/11 for one.
(NB The CIA and Israel were founded within months of each other.)

Such context as Piper’s (or Barrett’s or Bolyn’s) puts paid to the idea of the CIA and Mossad ‘working in tandem’ as two pally crooks helping each other out. The history as I see it is Israel’s agents repeatedly acting against US interests, only to face no reprisals, in fact only further submission from their US counterparts.

Finally, there is the idea of another overarching ‘structure of undisclosed allegiances’ which ties together US imperial criminality with zionism: secret societies- probably under the umbrella of freemasonry (who trace their ancestry back to the builders of Solomon’s Temple) are the obvious place to look.

different frank
different frank

To be helpful, Pipers’s book can be downloaded here.
https://archive.org/details/FinalJudgment/page/n2

Barovsky

Understatement of the year:

The BBC News today (19/08/19) reported that Buckingham Palace said that Prince Andrew’s meeting with Jeffrey Epstein and hanging out with babes, 2 years AFTER Epstein had been convicted of pedophilia offences was:

“a lapse of judgement”.

George Cornell
George Cornell

Should it not be a relapse of judgement?

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig

😀 😀 😀
Thanks, for a belly-laugh, George!

Jen
Jen

Prince Andrew’s judgement, if such a concept exists, has always been flat-lining anyway so lapses and relapses are impossible.

George Cornell
George Cornell

You may be right and it is only the public exposure that is sporadic.

George Cornell
George Cornell

One aspect of the Epstein story which has remained unfortunately quiet is what motivated Acosta to promote and obtain a ridiculous sentence for him. Surely this was not out of maudlin sentiment for billionaire poseurs. A year or so in a cushy residence with more or less unlimited day passes allowed Epstein to continue to abuse underage girls. That much is clear. The interests of the public seem to have been low on the list.

But who was behind this and how did Acosta’s outrageous behaviour as prosecutor translate into a cabinet appointment? This strongly implies malign forces so strong as to easily pervert the judicial system, de facto to foment child abuse, yet promote the corrupted Acosta into a completely inappropriate position as Labour secretary. It also spotlights the present administration.

There will be a paper trail for his appointment. Let’s see it. As in who nominated him and why.

flaxgirl

Very good point, George.

Barovsky

A deal was struck, I’ve forgotten the exact nature of it but it was mentioned here on OG but on an earlier piece on Epstein.

Barovsky

Okay, here’s more on the deal:

Acosta, in 2011, would explain that he was unduly pressured by Epstein’s heavy-hitting lawyers — Lefkowitz, Harvard professor Alan Dershowitz, Jack Goldberger, Roy Black, former U.S. Attorney Guy Lewis, Gerald Lefcourt, and Kenneth Starr, the former Whitewater special prosecutor who investigated Bill Clinton’s sexual liaisons with Monica Lewinsky. – https://galacticconnection.com/the-jeffrey-epstein-scandal-explodes-again-labor-secretary-acosta-and-robert-mueller-in-the-crosshairs/

The same article tells us:

The pact [deal] required Epstein to plead guilty to two prostitution charges in state court. Epstein and four of his accomplices named in the agreement received immunity from all federal criminal charges. But even more unusual, the deal included wording that granted immunity to “any potential co-conspirators’’ who were also involved in Epstein’s crimes. These accomplices or participants were not identified in the agreement, leaving it open to interpretation whether it possibly referred to other influential people who were having sex with underage girls at Epstein’s various homes or on his plane.

George Cornell
George Cornell

Thanks. I am concerned about the specifics of the hardly ambiguous quid pro quo. The quid was to let Epstein off with an absurd sentence for crimes which would get life for a poor black man. In fact they get that for robbing convenience stores.

But the quo was the cabinet appointment. So who engineered that? This is where the “former prime minister” and Clinton, who took 26 flights on Epsteins plane, hardly mentioned in the WaPo or NYT, come in? Would Trump have stood for this? Probably not , because his contempt for the Clintons is palpable. So is there a higher force? Seems as though there might be, unless Trump got off on one of his own flagrantes as part of a 3-way? So to speak.
All donors to the Clinton Global Initiative should be investigated? After all Clinton’s camp makes the preposterous claim that he was on the Lolita Express doing Clinton Global work with Epstein. If you believe that…

Barovsky

I think it’s pretty obvious that Epstein threatened to ‘spill the beans’ on those ‘higher ups’ unless he got off with a relative slap on the wrist. I mean even his prison sentence was a joke, he was let out every day to go to work in his office!!! Wasn’t his raison d’etre blackmail?

George Cornell
George Cornell

I don’t think it was blackmail of the usual kind. His base drive was pedophilia and like many others he could not resist it, and he learned he could get what he wanted with impunity in the US, if he got the rich and famous involved. These got him off decades of abuse. What a country.

Lots of videos on pedo island. There is no one who believes Andrew. He is a multiple offender.
He should be in jail, waiting trial. The FBI will have lurid shots of him I would wager, seized from the island, and of other luminaries not well connected enough to squash the evidence. The monarchy has ridden out lots of scandal. This one is especially awkward. Adultery? No problem. Pedophilia is something else.

Barovsky

For your edification: https://on.rt.com/a067

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

It was signed off all the way to the top.
That includes Mueller and doj.

The exploding can of worms will show that it came from the top.

Hugh O’Neill
Hugh O’Neill

Once again, Edward Curtin tears down the false narratives with impeccable logic, and the clarity of vision that only decent wise and honest men possess. Offguardian is my refuge from lies, stupidity and propaganda, so thanks to all who contribute to the debate in the search for truth. My sense is that there is very little difference between all these hideous intelligence agencies who have no respect for truth, justice, decency, beauty or wisdom, whose only motivation is power over others. The laws of God and Man mean nothing to them, and they become consumed by their self deification. How many of these ghastly individuals lead miserable empty lives and descend into madness like murderous Macbeth? One thinks of the ironically named James Jesus Angleton, or the bed defecating Allen Dulles. What was the point of all their sins against Humanity?
But when will people finally take their heads out of the sand and see the world as it really is? Why have so many academics, journalists and judges sold their souls so cheap? What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but suffers the loss of his own soul? To which one might add their dignity, integrity and self respect. For what is a man, if he has no dignity?
At such times, The words of JFK spring to my mind: for in the final analysis, we all share the same small planet. We breathe the same air. We cherish our children’s future.And we are all mortal. But goddammit, JFK was a commie lover and deserved to die….Good God defend us from their closed minds.

John A
John A

The Guardian has an article about ‘The weaponisation of information’ by some Chatham House troll. No mention of US, UK or NATO as propagandists, only the usual suspects. Utterly risible, and bog standard for that pathetic rag.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin

I came across an obscure reference if how the Observer editor in the 50’s (?) was part if the elite fascist set of the prewar era. I’ll try to see if can find it again.

Ironically the only people i know who still think the Guardian is a lefty anti tory stalwart are these reading just the hard copy daily – mainly for the crosswords – they miss out in the btl comments.

They think they are luddites!

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar

I think one should distinguish between statements that Epstein WAS replaced by a double and demands to use proper forensic ID techniques to prove the body in question IS Epstein. You know: DNA tests, dental records, finger prints, retinal scans etc.

That takes under one week and all arguments are resolved if things are done proper and professionally. Either the body is Epstein or it is not. Facial surgery does not change DNA, after all. And the authorities gain credibility if independent third parties confirm their story.

Of course, if muddying the waters is the aim of game, inspiring constant conspiracy theories, people should step aside.

But the first way to stop top criminals doing what they want is ensuring that autopsies and investigations are not sordid cover ups.

wardropper
wardropper

Totally agree.
But they won’t let me in to check that their autopsies and investigations are not sordid cover-ups…
Nor do I even know anybody whom they would allow to do so…
I’m stuck.