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An Open Letter to Pearl Clutchers re No-Deal Brexit

Catte Black

Dear Pearl Clutcher,

I know you’re very preoccupied panic-buying essential drugs and spare body bags (for when some of your family members inevitably die following a no-deal Brexit).

I know you’re seething with social-media-meme-induced rage about – well, you aren’t totally clear but you know BoJo is behind it all – and are too busy hammering out hysterical status updates to think too much. Even if thinking were your strong suit, which, let’s be honest Pearl, it isn’t.

I know you’re worn out from listening to that nice Owen Jones squeaking about ‘democracy’ at all those #stopthecoup rallies you went to with your Guardianista chums. And you have a dozen ready meals to prepare for the freezer (for when the EU takes away all our food), and biofuel to buy for the generator (for when the EU turns off the electricity).

But can I just grab a quick moment of your time, Pearl? Just to point out one small fact you might want to consider.

Here’s a thought experiment for you.

* * *

You are a landlord.

A not very nice landlord.

One day one of your tenants comes to you and says he wants to leave. He asks for his deposit back in full.

You say actually he forfeited his deposit because his dog wrecked the carpets and there’s paint on the kitchen tiles. But you’ll agree to him having a partial refund, provided he lets you keep his furniture.

The tenant says ‘but my furniture is worth more than the deposit, so no thanks.’

You say, ‘well that’s the deal, take it or leave it.’

The tenant says ‘I’ll leave it thanks.’

He leaves it and moves out with his furniture

* * *

Now re-run that scenario, only THIS time a new law means the tenant can’t leave without accepting a deal.

What will you do now? Bear in mind, YOU can refuse the deal, but HE can’t. YOU can offer almost any terms you want. HIS only option is to ask nice for something better. So, will you:

  1. Offer him better terms than before because he asks nice?
  2. Screw him every frickin which way you can and give him an even worse deal than before – because he literally can’t refuse?

With this in mind, what do you think the media hysteria about No Deal might actually be about?

Do you still believe neoliberal warmonger austerity-fan Hilary Benn was thinking about YOU when he tabled that bill?

I know the Guardian and its shrieking sisters have all been telling you that No Deal Brexit is even worse than just regular Brexit, and that probably it will mean everyone in the country dies (instead of just most of us), the sun boils and the Kraken wakes from the depths to devour all those who still breathe upon our shores.

But you see, Pearl, that’s reductionist garbage.

Forget Boogeyman BoJo and the blaring Carnival of Fear, and think. In the real world outside the perceptual insanity of media memes being able to walk away with No Deal is an essential part of any negotiation isn’t it? Without it you can’t deal at all.

And if you’re negotiating with a jerk who refuses to budge from his unacceptable terms then walking away is all you can do.

It’s definitely not better to say ‘oh well, I can’t have no deal so I guess I just take whatever you got.’

All Boris’s antics and Hilary’s timely intervention has done is bring us to this pass where the UK population is cheering the fact they have handed themselves over to the oligarchs wholesale.

Oh and, according to George Galloway, John McDonnell et al even persuaded Corbyn to vote against an election – against his own best instincts.

The media will tell you this was sound tactics because Corbyn would certainly lose.

Well, maybe, but let’s not forget if Corbyn loses an election, the old Blairite rump get to force a leadership contest and maybe foist Benn or Phillips on us. And let’s not forget Phillips and others are on record saying they don’t want a Corbyn government.

So, I suggest it’s possible the Labour Right doesn’t want an election because they know Corbyn could win.

Further they’ve managed to spin this so that Corbyn is now associated with Remain – thus alienating much of his natural base.

It’s all round so far a victory for the status quo, the centrists, the anti-democrats, the 1%.

BoJo seems passing good at not getting what he allegedly wants but what the ruling elite need, doesn’t he?

So, Pearl, do you feel silly now for basically campaigning for the oligarchs to shaft you?

Yup, you should.

How long before the cheering Left clue into the silent coup just pulled on them?

OffG co-founding editor. Writer. Opinionated polemicist.

Filed under: Brexit, featured, latest, UK, UK domestic politics

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OffG co-founding editor. Writer. Opinionated polemicist.

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Admin
Admin
Admin

A surprising number of comments on this thread (including the most aggressive and childishly insulting) are aimed at refuting or abusing opinions or claims the article does not make.

Before posting please do the following:

1. READ the article.

2. Comprehend that it is NOT claiming the U.K. should leave the EU without a deal.

3. Avoid refuting this claim or any other claims NOT made in the article.

4. Avoid using ad hom in place of argument

Thank you.

Peter Moritz
Peter Moritz

And if you’re negotiating with a jerk who refuses to budge from his unacceptable terms then walking away is all you can do.

The childish behaviour exhibited is by an author of an article who apparently slings insults at the EU – not that this organisation does not deserve it in spades – that are simply pulled out of her behind and fail the reality check when one consults the WA agreement.

And if you’re negotiating with a jerk who refuses to budge from his unacceptable terms then walking away is all you can do.

That has nothing to do with the reality of the EU and the obviously incompetence of the UK lower house that apparently following the discussions although never familiarized themselves with the text or even the brief.

This is the second article by Ms. Catte that lets me to believe that she argues in many ways similar to what I read on alt right sites, and let me to suspect that she is rather a plant to obfuscate instead of pursuing whatever the truth is. Iwonder who her paymaster – at least intellectually – really is.

Jeremiah
Jeremiah

I say this person is a paid troll and should be shut down.

MLS
MLS

Yeah he’s a troll or lunatic but he doesn’t have to be shut down if there was some support shown BTL for the site!

I am starting to think the open comment experiment is proving a failure. Noisy minorities move in to heckle the writers and admins and abuse the site’s free speech. The silent majority just stand back and watch it happen. Can’t even be bothered to vote down obvious abuses. Zero censorship requires community support and responsibility. If we don’t support it we lose it.

William HBonney

Noisy minorities move in to heckle the writers and admins and abuse the site’s free speech.

Free speech cannot be abused.

Edited by Admin to fix formatting

Jeremiah
Jeremiah

Known troll ‘William H Bonney’ turns up and the incoherent hate comments against this site all magically get a slew of new upvotes.

Someone is clearly using proxies to multi-vote for troll posts.

MLS
MLS

11 people voting up a comment that is almost literally incoherent, attacks the article for ‘slinging insults at the EU’ when it doesn’t and attacks an OffG editor for being a paid agent!

Only 6 people vote up a reply that calls the commenter a troll and 8 people vote it down.

What is going on here? This wouldn’t happen on any comparable site. If a portion of the readership hates this place enough to vote up even crazy nasty obvious trolls just because they’re being rude and the majority doesn’t even rally any support, how much longer is this place going to be here? The editors will get sick of the abuse. Close down comments or close down the site, and then what?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“The editors will get sick of the abuse. Close down comments or close down the site, and then what?”

Then move the comments offsite, to an internal “sister site” or a freebie open forum (e.g. Twatter or anywhere similar that permits or inherits–in the OOP sense–onsite login credentials from here (i.e. practically none, as is appropriate and sometimes necessary for free, anonymous expression) with an autolink back to the article on this site appended to each.

In my experience, many less than committed visitors to a (any) site dislike even scrolling down so I’m assuming even fewer would be tempted to follow (and, more importantly, post to) a link under each article pointing to offsite comments (or a text box under each article expressly gathering comments for offsite display: incidentally an approach significantly more protective of posters’ security and anonymity).

Maybe even import, on editorially agreed basis, “editor’s selections/curations” (similar to the On-Guardian’s “Picks” but with less of a their-smugboot-in-your-face frame of mind) back to this current Off-Guardian BTL cage fighting spot (in effect the equivalent of editorial upvotes, sans any no votes and downvotes, which would be left behind in the offsite comments, if not abandoned).

Admin
Admin
Admin

We appreciate the call for support. But we are not going to be closing down or further censoring the comments! We get thousands of readers per day, only a tiny percentage of them are trolls and very very few of those become a problem.

Chris Rogers

Lets not behave like The Guardian, which, whilst a once valuable place to discuss serious issues, transformed into a place where no critique of its own views could be allowed, which is hardly upholding notions of freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

Some points arising (but not scored):

“READ the article”

1. Despite an overwhelmment of in-their-face evidence to the contrary, the proportion of the otherwise IT-sophisticated commentariart that consistently overlooks or forgets that the great wen that comprises its electronic legacy is largely recorded in WOM* still retains its element of surprise. Go to point 2, below: ↓

2, “Avoid refuting this claim or any other claims NOT made in the article.”

This is known as ‘recursion’→ See point 1, above: ↑

“Avoid using ad hom in place of argument”

3. One of the more spectacularly successful confusions deployed by the degenerate lowlife hanging out in the open cesspits and sewers serving as the sanitary infrastructure of the aforementioned great wen has been to erase in the minds of many of the less mendacious inhabitants, for much of their online time, the crucial distinction between ad hominems and ad modus operandiems.

* Write-Only Memory

Northern
Northern

This article and the discussion below the line has been a much needed break from the hysterics seen elsewhere. Between the intense media driven polarisation and the extreme arrogance of the political class, it’s hard to see how they’re going to put the lid back on this one now. As one poster below alluded to, things are starting to look a little too like Russia circa 1917 for comfort.

mark
mark

I’ve been trying to work out the Labour position on Brexit for some time now.
So far as my limited intellect can grasp, it appears to be something along these lines:-
Labour will respect the referendum result and leave.
But it will not leave without a deal under any circumstances.
If it wins an election and forms a government, it will seek to obtain a new deal from the EU.
Even though the EU has said it will not offer any new or improved deal.
So it will accept any deal the EU does condescend to offer.
But at the same time this deal has to meet a whole series of different requirements that are impossible to meet.
And Thornberry, Watson, Starmer and most of the Blairites who make up 80% plus of the PLP are determined to Remain regardless of any deal that is theoretically offered by Brussels.
So they will actively campaign against any deal they themselves will presumably just have negotiated.
And this will be subject to a second referendum.
They will advise the population to reject the deal they themselves have just negotiated.
And they may or may not respect the result of this referendum.

There now, come to think of it, it’s all very clear and logical, isn’t it?
Glad we got that all cleared up.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin

RED LINES.

Basher
Basher

A Labour govt would secure a deal. It wouldn’t prioritize offshore money etc, that for the Tories are absolute prerequisites, required by their billionaire backers, both leavers and remainers. Normal people would be a priority – imagine that……a UK govt putting its populace first

mark
mark

The UK under a Labour government would be shafted even worse than Greece under Syriza.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig

Mark, for a guy with a “limited intellect,” you sure catch on fast!

michael55
michael55

The irony is that Corbyn is a ‘big girls blouse’ but not necessarily for not calling a GE.
More so for his failure to get to grips with the division within the Labour Party and particularly the PLP faction.

mark
mark

Bojo kicked out 21 mutinous MPs.
Jezza needs to kick out about 221 Blairite Backstabbers.

Bailed
Bailed

Admin, the answer would be to limit comments to one per day…
Posters would have to think before they write.
The discussion would still move forward without trolling.

M. Le Docteur R
M. Le Docteur R

Catte and Everyone Else

If you have not read it and did not know of its existence take a look at:

“The Impact on the U.S. Economy of Including the United Kingdom in a Free Trade Arrangement With the United States, Canada, and Mexico”
published by US International Trade Commission in August 2000.

Experiment 2: the UK withdraws from the EU and joins NAFTA (i.e. a no deal Brexit) was estimated in 2000 to result in a 17.54% increase in US exports with a $2250 million surplus in the US’s favor.

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/docs/pubs/332/pub3339.pdf

Now tell me Washington are not pulling the strings on Brexit.

Antonym
Antonym

Craig Murray has come out of the Remainers closet after watching the Boris’ Pro-rogue show in Parliament: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/09/really-a-right-wing-coup/comment-page-3/#comment-892069
This makes him a pearl clutcher apart from an Islam apologist and a convert to the CO2 craze.

the pair
the pair

all this nonsense and screeching over an arrangement that didn’t exist in its current form until 1992. i have t-shirts older than the EU. all this panic that a small country which somehow managed to rule most of the known world for a few centuries couldn’t possibly exist without the good graces of a bunch of yuppie twats in belgium.

all this focus on supposed “leaver” racism (which in many cases does exist but would have whether or not brexit was ever a “thing”) toward immigrants and refugees instead of introspection regarding the UK/US/saudi/israel axis that caused the flood of refugees in the first place. not a lot of attention paid to the irony of the UK doing said things while being harassed from outside its own borders by mirror images of their own neoliberal plutocrats and bean counters. maybe we’ll see a flood of british refugees flooding…norway? who knows?

and last of all…the irony of MPs (menial prostitutes) bleating about “democracy” while attempting to block the will of the majority. good times. good laughs.

ANDREW CLEMENTS
ANDREW CLEMENTS
Dungroanin
Dungroanin

AndrewC,
Seriously ? You are shilling that rag here now? You do know of its the origination?

‘Spiked’s predecessor, Living Marxism, the journal of the Revolutionary Communist Party, which ceased publication after ITN won their libel action against it.’

You do know the author of the piece you quote can himself be desrcibed as a ‘piece of work’ ?

He has opined such sageness as :

“If You Were Abused By Jimmy Savile, Maybe You Should Keep It to Yourself”,[10] O’Neill argued against victims of sexual abuse by high-profile individuals coming forward publicly…”
&
Referring to high-profile cases of racial abuse and alleged racial abuse, he argued, “these incidents and alleged incidents are not racism at all, in the true meaning of the word”, due to the levels of passion involved, describing anti-racism efforts as “a pretty poisonous desire to police the … working classes”.
&
He is opposed to the legalization of same-sex marriage in Australia, arguing that it has been “attended by authoritarianism wherever it’s been introduced”
Etc etc etc
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_O'Neill_(columnist)

There is more there about his fellow travellers – a rum bunch – it show how the two ends of a string are tied together as common controlled opionionators, whose prime motives seems to create maximum divisions between peoples, using identity politics from both ends of the artificial one dimensional spectrum.

AC that article belongs down a WC

For these wondering where many of the highly charged brexity commentators and splurge of them here on O-G may have originated this is looking like the smoking gun.

ANDREW CLEMENTS
ANDREW CLEMENTS

Dungroanin thank you for your reply, I was unaware of the genesis of Spiked but take heed of your comments but what is the difference between Spiked and the BBC in regard to Saville
do you boycott the BBC ? My question is purely rhetorical but I’m glad to have read your recourse and will check the bona fide of links in the future, so thank you for that

Dungroanin
Dungroanin

AndrewC,
Glad that you are not defending them and anybody in doubt that the full spectrum – out means out, hard brexit better than a soft brexit – non stop blitz, from both ends, should realise they have been played like suckers and ADMIT it to themselves first.

Nobody likes to think they have been fooled and they end up compounding their folly by refusing to acknowledge it.

I haven’t engaged in Beeb/tv news media for a couple of years now and wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole – just a bit of research on their senior editors, correspondents and management easily reveals that they are a major propaganda machine.

That is why i refuse to pay their regressive poll tax licence ‘fee’ to be propagandised to.

‘Never believe anything you here and only half believe what you see’ – until you have verified it, is my guiding principle to reduce the risk of being suckered.

It is now time to turn and face the truth and fight these who hunt us to control the public perception.

Goodluck.

ANDREW CLEMENTS
ANDREW CLEMENTS

Frankenstein Labour Partyhttps://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/04/why-remoaners-are-so-terrified-of-a-general-election/

mark
mark

There have been various polls floating around, for what they’re worth (probably not very much.)
One puts the Tories/ Labour on 37/30 % in an October election.
28/28% dead heat if it goes to November.
How credible those figures are is open to question.
Another puts the Tories/ Farage on 35/12%, with Farage picking up 18% if it goes to November.

If Bojo wants to save his skin, he has to do two things: (1) convert the Tories into a Brexit rump, and (2), enter into a formal pact with Farage. Nothing else works for him.

Corbyn has been taken hostage by hard line Remainers.
He’s not particularly interested in the issue. He’s never been a Brussels Groupie. He wants to renationalise the railways and implement an industrial strategy – and the EU will just veto that out of hand.

Labour’s Brexit policy shifts on a daily basis and Thornberry is incoherent. It will not bear up to much scrutiny.

Other considerations.

Bojo will present this as an issue of People v. Parliament.
The French Foreign Minister has said he will veto any further extensions.
Expect the unexpected.

Expect a lot of court cases as well.
Whatever the outcome, the Kritarchy will be unpopular.
People don’t like the idea of Men In Wigs ruling on contested political issues.

Expect Project Fear to go into overdrive in the MSM as well.

Despite all the obstruction and obfuscation, the centre of gravity appears to be shifting towards Brexit.

None of the mutineers like Umuna, Berger, Woollaston and the rest have the courage to risk a by election. They know that they have about as much chance of retaining their seats as they do of being struck by lightning.

Farage intends targeting vulnerable Remainers like Watson and Kinnock. More power to his elbow.

Remain have been indulging in fantasies and wishful thinking that all the Leavers have either died or become discouraged. A Bojo/ Farage coalition has the potential of picking up 400 seats.

But who knows? It’s all up for grabs.
Anything can happen in the next 24 hours.
Hang on to your jimmies, folks.
Just break out the choc ices and the popcorn.
Sit back and enjoy the fun.

William
William

Are you so determined to leave the eu that you are happy to see the likes of Farage Johnson Duncan Smith & the unelected Cummings etc in complete control? If so what advantages do you see for ordinary working class folk?

mark
mark

I’m not advocating anything, W.
I’m just going through the possible permutations of what is likely to happen.
You have to do this when you live in a banana republic like Britain.
Bojo plus Farage probably makes sense from their point of view.

Ordinary working class folk get shafted whatever happens.
That’s Rule No. 1 of the Westminster Parliamentary Rules.

The main point is this has the potential to bring the whole rotten system crashing down – when possibly ordinary working class folk will cease to be shafted.

ANDREW CLEMENTS
ANDREW CLEMENTS

Remain = Punch in the face (tyranny)
Leave = Kick in the bollox (capitalist free for all)

either way the working class get to vote
for the least worse option a bit like general elections
shame Corbyn never got to be in charge on a no deal brexit

different frank
different frank

This ideological project, one that has been in the planning stage for years wants to take neoliberal capitalism to the final stage. It wants to completely abandon the social and economic model that has underpinned most western economies for the last seven decades. What they really want is a Britain that eventually emulates what will look like the worst of America. These extreme capitalists want a low regulation, small state economy, where privatisation, and the so-called free market, completely takes over. There have been many warnings about this in the last decade, but little in the way of real resistance.
As the people of Britain continue just to accept whatever happens without much complaint (like state surveillance, destruction of privacy, loss of workers rights, civil liberties, et all) the next stage of their destiny is depressingly playing out to a plan. After bailing out the banks for their egregious crimes a decade ago, it became apparent that there was little in the way to stop extreme neoliberal capitalism from marching on. With renewed vigour, camouflaging their ambitions in a web of lies, deceit, disinformation and propaganda to both confuse and avoid alienating voters, the race was on to force and then win the EU referendum Brexit vote.
Evidence of corporations having unreasonable power in Britain arrived when, in an irony worthy of comedy series ‘Yes Minster,’ transnationals such as PepsiCo, Mars and Diageo were put at the heart of writing government policy on obesity, alcohol and diet-related disease almost as soon as the Conservative’s arrived in office in 2010. Civil Society was not represented. This is the basis of their plan. Seriously, it is.

mark
mark

Another Tory minister has just jumped ship, Rudd.
Jacking in the Tories completely.
Bojo could be on his own soon.

Tom
Tom

Absolute rubbish. Brexit is more like leaving the golf club but expecting to still be able to play and use the clubhouse.
As for the ‘media hysteria’ – the media hysteria seems to be more about our democratically-elected Parliament doing it’s job and preventing something very damaging.
I guess our media would rather our political class tugged its forelock to American billionaires and powerbrokers who want to asset-strip and dominate the UK without the EU being involved.

MLS
MLS

Another first time out of nowhere troll poster promoting anti-democracy and blowing smoke.

The type of negotiation isn’t the point you knuckle-head. Doesn’t make any difference if it’s a landlord, a golf club or a car dealership or anything else you name. Point is you have to be able to walk away or you can’t negotiate.

But you’ll probably get a bunch of vote ups from the other malignant knuckleheads here.

Jeremiah
Jeremiah

‘Tom’ had 0 upvotes at 9am BST. Now he has 5. And MLS now has 5 down votes.

In fact all the troll comments acquired 5 new upvotes at around the same time WHBonney posted.

I strongly urge the site admins to look into this. Trolls are using proxy IPs to do fake upvotes. It’s incredibly petty but intended to spread discord.

David Gibson

In the article by Catte Black and subsequent discussion re “An Open Letter to Pearl Clutchers”. I find it extraordinary that the bigger picture hasn’t been remarked upon!

That is the role of the USA. After Pompeo saying that Jeremy won’t ever be PM coupled with the endorsement that Trump gave Boris leads me to believe that the NSA/CIA working with MI5 and MI6 along with Mossad and every other hostile anti-democratic swamp creature would have had a hand in the original proposal to wrench the UK away from Europe and into the ‘Free Trade Agreement’ with the USA thereby achieving two if not more aims of the Empire.

The first to sow division and weaken the competitor trading block to the USA and secondly to consolidate the role of the USA as the leading force of the white Anglo-Saxon former colonies of the old British Empire. The UK becomes what has been evident for a long time,…the UK is a vassal state of the US Empire.

Does one not think that the wars in the Middle East didn’t have an added bonus for the US, in that they knew Europe would be the overwhelmed by the flood of refugees? Thereby weakening the ‘unity’ of Europe to the commercial and hegemonic advantage of the US.

The US global plan has been carefully thought out and implemented over the last 70 odd years. As the USA is the aggressor with a plan it is flexible enough to accommodate changes in tactics as the need arises, but hasn’t strayed from the strategic plan of world domination.

After the UK, Germany will be pulled into gear. The current stumbling blocks of China and Russia are being encircled by NATO and short range nuclear missiles. Iran and other recalcitrant would be independent countries have to be dealt with as well.

Brexit, stay or leave was a trap and like previously in 1971when Parliament voted 356-244 in favour of making a new application to become a member of the EC subsequently the working class became divided in the lead up to the referendum of 1975 as many believed with justification that being in the EC wouldn’t give them any improvement in their working lives.

Now working people think that they will be better off out of the EU! In my humble opinion the Free Trade Agreement with the US will make them worse off vis a vie the NHS and GM food.

Observations from a faraway ex pom.

mark
mark

What is this all about?
What is going to happen over the next few weeks and months, and in the longer term?

This is a failure of the political class to deliver Brexit.
There was a clear mandate to do so over 3 years ago.
But the political elite failed to deliver Brexit because it never had any desire to do so. It never had the slightest intention of doing so.
17.5 million people have been cheated.
We now have a failed, corrupt, broken, dysfunctional system, which has been tested and found severely wanting. Our sham democracy has been revealed for all the world to see.
It is deadlocked and utterly incapable of resolving the crisis.
It no longer serves any useful purpose whatsoever.
It cannot continue without root and branch reform.

So where do Johnson and the Tories go from here?
The Tories are imploding. They are visibly disintegrating.
Johnson went for broke in an attempt to deliver Brexit by 31 October.
And he has gone broke. This is a busted flush. It isn’t going to happen.
Labour/ SNP/ Liberals/ Tory Rebels will deny him an election until after 31 Oct.
There will be no election until he has been visibly humiliated and failed to honour his pledge to deliver Brexit. They want him broken and humiliated.
He will probably resign rather than revel in the humiliation of following his orders to go begging Brussels for yet another pointless extension.
The shortest serving PM in history, and the most abject failure.
Who will then lead the Tories? Who cares? Will there be any Tory Party left?

This leaves a significant vacuum for Farage to fill in an election around November.
The Tories are a joke and all the other parties are now openly Remain.
The 17.5 million and the former Labour heartlands have no other political home – unless something far more extreme emerges, and this won’t happen by November.
Farage’s party were the clear winners in May. They are likely to gain mass support in the general election.

Could Labour form a government?
Unlikely. They will lose the support of millions of traditional Labour Leave voters.
And the Remain vote will ebb away to the Liberals/ Greens.
Labour has been weakened by the endless Blairite Backstabbing, and the anti Semitism and other anti Jezza smears. Many people can see through this for what it is, but others will be taken in by it.

The Liberals and Greens will probably pick up support, but this is unlikely to be converted into long term strength. It will be a flash in the pan.

So what is a possible election outcome?
A much diminished rump Tory party. A sizeable Brexit bloc. Liberals picking up support, if only temporarily.
Possibly some kind of very weak coalition led by Labour, with Liberal/ SNP/ Green support.
Jezza either replaced as Labour leader by some pro austerity neoliberal warmonger nonentity, or allowed to stay in place with his powers severely circumscribed.

This coalition would then either go through the charade of re negotiating with Brussels, or just ditching Brexit out of hand, with or without a second referendum.

But nothing will ever be resolved. Nothing will be settled. This will run, and run, and run, and run. It will go on for years, and years, and years, and years.

Brussels has its Fifth Column firmly in place in the British Establishment. It has no incentive to make any concessions whatsoever. It will treat any Labour coalition like it treated Syriza. Britain will be broken on the wheel, like Greece before it. It will probably impose humiliating and stringent terms on any Labour administration seeking to remain in the EU. Maybe joining the euro and greatly hiked budget contributions. A veto on the composition and policies of any future government, such as it imposed on Greece, Italy, and Spain. Maybe they’ll just appoint EU Commissioners to rule Britain. This is what they have done before.

One thing is certain.
The divisions will continue.
There will be no improvement.
Things will only get worse.
There is no light at the end of the tunnel.
There is no end of the tunnel.
This will continue indefinitely.
Whatever view you take of Brexit.

Graft
Graft

“We now have a failed, corrupt, broken, dysfunctional system, which has been tested and found severely wanting” we now have this? Now? How about always had?!

mark
mark

Very true. But they can no longer paper over the cracks.

michael55
michael55

The ‘hidden hand’ will decide what happens regarding Brexit. How convenient though that all the established parties want to remain and now it looks like poor Boris will have to go begging for an extension. A lot of ‘smoke and mirrors’ in my opinion to get the desired result for all concerned (obviously not including the 17.4 million people who voted leave and the unwitting remain faction)

It begs the question where does someone go who is politically inclined when they realize that they have been royally shafted by all sides and the Red /Blue façade is just that, a great big con.

mark
mark

The big winner could be Farage, as in May.
The only political home left for Brexit supporters.
And everybody who wants to register their disgust with the existing system.

That is a possible outcome – a new party fighting its first GE winning.

But anything is possible.
You roll the dice and see what happens.

Should we even expect an imminent election?
The Opposition could keep Bojo in office indefinitely, a lame duck leader of a zombie administration, endlessly prolonging the agony. Maybe for years, a full term till 2022.

Don’t expect any quick resolution.
This could go on, and on, and on, and on.
For years, and years, and years.

Unless the peasants with pitchforks put an end to the whole tawdry, degrading spectacle.
Or somebody like Fuhrer Tommy Robinson takes over the streets.

Antonym
Antonym

How easy is it to manipulate voting results in the UK? In the US it was done through immigrants and through Google/Facebook, in Holland / France it might have been done post voting too.

different frank
different frank

Clear mandate?

RobG

I keep taking Laudanum, but still can’t thinking that I’m living a nightmare.

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn

So – what do you do when you end up on the street and a seemingly nice American man suggests that he can look after you for the rest of your life?

Once the UK is out of the clutches of one bloc of evil they will end up in another bloc of evil.

I am an aetheist but using that word for effect.

Perhaps a worse one without the semblance of a welfare state?

Welcome to Bourgeois Democracy.

The choice of the least worst option.

Problem is I don’t hear the rumble of Revolution.

I hear the right but not the left.

British Socialism and revolution do not go together.

For now Bourgeois Democracy it is and no leftist posturing is going to change that fact.

Not for the present.

This is the era of Reformism not Revolution so we have to live with the choices.

Peter Moritz
Peter Moritz

Before anyone believes the Catte-puke nonsense one should actually read at least the briefing notes of the WA beforeget all hot under the collar about the mean EEEEEUUUU…not that I am a fan of the seame, but posting absolute shite does not help anyone. The main problem is the border between NI/IR, which of course needs provisions to be kept open

Under the ‘backstop’ the UK will form a customs union with the EU (except for trade in fisheries and aquaculture products, which should be the subject of a further agreement on fishing opportunities by 1 July 2020). The UK will conform to specific EU legislation on customs, including with respect to third countries, and some harmonisation of law will continue on taxation, the environment, labour law, state aid, competition and public companies/monopolies, but with no obligation to keep up with new EU legislation and CJEU case law.
To provide a ‘level playing field’ the UK commits to non-regression on EU environmental protection, labour and social standards, state aid and competition, and state-owned undertakings in respect of administration of tax.
EU law on free movement of persons, services and capital, and contributions to the EU budget, will not apply. But there will be free movement for goods moving from NI to the rest of the UK and the EU. The EU and the UK will seek to facilitate trade between Britain and NI with a view to avoiding controls at NI ports and airports.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8453

Without this backstop a hard border will have to be established in order to prevent no EU compliant goods entering the EU through NI. And guess what – none of the member states will look favourably at Britain being able to freely export to the EU without any rules.
A Brexit without agreement will mean one thing for sure – a reestablished border in Ireland and the risk of strife again with somethings blowing up or maybe finally a reunification, as the majority in NI voted to remain.

In conclusion – I have yet to read an article of such a low quality in any left leaning alternative outlet except maybe the shite that is sometimes posted on RI. The post is even useless as manure.

Peter Moritz
Peter Moritz

to make it clear – RI is definitely not left leaning but alt right, so low quality is a thing there of course. But to read “Stuss” (an encompassing German expression of “shite” and related stinking manure) here..is disappointing.

Jeremiah
Jeremiah

To echo PSJ you shower this scatalogical generic insult on the article and then make a slew of points that have nothing whatsoever to do with anything in it.

I think you should be asked to indicate which part of the article you disagree with and produce some kind of framework to justify your language. Failure to engage should mean your comment is dropped down the spam drain.

I know there’s a no censorship policy here but it’s hard to see it abused by nasty pieces of work like this just trying to disrupt and intimidate. The ones upvoting his smears are not much better. Why the fuck are you here if dumb fuck binaries is all you can handle.

Sorry admins for ranting. I like this site and too many of the noisiest commenters are just here for the wrong reasons and just totally take advantage to splurge hate.

I think you should have zero tolerance for personal attacks especially against your writers. That doesn’t impact free expression but it does stop the well being poisoned by creeps and haters.

Peter Moritz
Peter Moritz

The totality of her article is an insult to those who can read and understand the WA agreement which has little to do with the idiocies she propounds. If she wants to be taken seriously she should maybe consult at least the briefing notes I linked to and then it is up to her to specifically address what irks her regarding the WA instead of an idiotic slam dunk.
If that it is asked too much, then this site as many others who pretend to be left or at least critical of Gov. policies but are nothing other than ill informed vanity shows and not worth my time.

Jeremiah
Jeremiah

You were asked to specify what you dislike or find inaccurate or to resemble puke in the article. You totally fail to do that, but let’s take a look at what you do say:

The totality of her article is an insult to those who can read and understand the WA agreement which has little to do with the idiocies she propounds

This is a bit weird, because the article isn’t concerned with and doesn’t discuss or allude to the Withdrawal Agreement (WA) . It is not about any aspect of the WA or even about Brexit as a good or bad entity, so this observation is really non sequitur, odd and meaningless.

Why are the things she propounds ‘idiocies’? You don’t explain that at all. In fact you literally don’t talk about a single actual word she writes.

If she wants to be taken seriously she should maybe consult at least the briefing notes I linked to and then it is up to her to specifically address what irks her regarding the WA instead of an idiotic slam dunk.

She does not say anything irks her about the WA because she does not mention it even obliquely. Why do you keep talking about the WA when it has nothing to do with this article?

If that it is asked too much, then this site as many others who pretend to be left or at least critical of Gov. policies but are nothing other than ill informed vanity shows and not worth my time.

I think judging by this sentence English is not your first language and I think we can charitably suggest this is why you have totally failed to understand what this article is about.

Or maybe you’re just obsessed with the WA and think everything you read is about that even when it clearly is not.

Or maybe you’re a troll.

None of that explains your abusive rage though, which I think is down to inadequacy on your part.

What’s really funny is more than one person upvoted you either on the basis you were being personally rude and aggressive to this woman or because they, like you, are so unable to read English they don’t know what the article is even about.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“…this site as many others who pretend to be left or at least critical of Gov. policies but are nothing other than ill informed vanity shows and not worth my time.”

So long.

MLS
MLS

This article is not about the WA. You don’t even have anything to say about the article. You just throw abuse words and people vote you up. Disgusting.

Tony
Tony

In practice, there won’t be a hard border. There never has been. Ever.

Peter Moritz
Peter Moritz

There never has been. Ever.

That answer needs to be surrounded with a gold frame to clearly draw the attention as to the carelessness of the respondent. Either he missed history in class, or he went to a school where the topic was not addressed.
I remember crossing the border after a long wait at a crossing close to Londonderry in 1971, with a watchtower in the center of the village and machine gun armed soldiers in the tower and at the border control station.
I guess I must have been dreaming that border that was more like the one between East and West Germany than a border between two neighbours with a similar political and economic system.

mark
mark

There has never been a hard border with Ireland since 1922. The one exception was a couple of weeks in 1944 prior to D Day on security grounds, when the border was closed. This is a non issue, an invented problem to sabotage a democratic referendum.

Tony
Tony

Correct. And we have identified a troll.

Graft
Graft

No hard border since 1922? So those armed checkpoints were what then? And we won that vote for a united Ireland and Britain still said no

mark
mark

Armed checkpoints were set up all over NI to try to stop bombings and shootings, most of them nowhere near the border.
Then, as now, the border was an irrelevance.
The main issue with the border was pig smuggling. Irish and NI farmers smuggled pigs back and forth across it to claim double subsidies. Irish pigs temporarily became British pigs, and vice versa.

Ben Trovata
Ben Trovata

I own up! I’m really hoping that story was true and not pinched from Flann O’Brien: The Poor Mouth: a bad story about the hard life’

mark
mark

No, it is quite true. Almost as big a problem as coke smuggling on the Mexican border. Pig subsidy abuse was a major issue.

Tony
Tony

They used to do it with fuel, something to do with different tax an VAT rates. They’d dig a secret pipeline across the border and have a storage tank connected to each end on either side of the border.

PSJ
PSJ

‘Catte puke’?

I wonder why you wrote that infantile ad hom down and thought it added weight and credibility to your argument.

The question becomes more relevant when you consider Catte’s article isn’t about and doesn’t even mention any of the points you talk about.

The topic of Brexit seems to have people in the UK reduced to such simplified binary thinking they no longer read what their supposed opponents say but simply bombard each other with competing factoids and concomitant abuse.

I don’t believe Catte was taking any part in this black/white Remain/Leave ‘debate.’ I believe she was making a point of some insight and with her trademark wit and clarity that has altogether passed you (and, sadly, several others here) by.

Why not read her article again. You many even understand it on a second run. It would only benefit you.

Graft
Graft

>>“Not that I’m a Fan”
>>proceeds to shill HARD for the EU

wardropper
wardropper

A fine article, which avoids the mistake of over-simplification.
This isn’t a simple matter.

Savile's Leiche
Savile's Leiche

Very apposite, but you talk about shafting Britain like it’s a bad thing. Before Britain tried to escape the EU, it shredded all it could of its residual human rights protections and tried to do the same internationally in Chagos and the Mideast. If the EU stripped Britain’s assets like it did to Greece, that would materially diminish the threat posed by the runt of the P-5 litter. Isolation and slavish dependence on its CIA handlers would help justify curbs on its veto impunity and waterfall privileges in the Secretariat.

Conall Boyle
Conall Boyle

Landlord-tenant? See, yet again the image of oppression! Get over this Bullshit. The EU is a Club that benefits its members.

Chris Rogers

Shame it don’t benefit the average Joe, shame its economic proscriptions ensure perpetual austerity for most, just a shame it exists at all really given it now but another part of a large neolibreal ecosystem we are all supposed to worship.

gardenfiend
gardenfiend

And it supports Nazis in Ukraine.

Graft
Graft

Austerity is an EU thing enforced on us! The EU is not your friend and was set up by literal nazis and the CIA

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

There seems to be a lot of Corbin trolls on this thread. How anyone can shill for Corbin after his links to ” so called ” billionaire, Geoffrey Epstein have come to light? Epstein was the leader cospiracy to rape, abuse and traffic young teens. I am not saying Corbin has done anything wrong but I am not buying Corbins crap about ” Geoffrey had a beautiful mind – and a billion dollars – whats a girl to do ?” He at least should be investigated. And as for all you Corbin trolls who march in lock step towards the establishment of Corbin’s 1000 year reich, I genuinly pity you.

different frank
different frank

Learn to spell pablomillerunit.

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

fortunatly, different frank you are not my teacher – just a wannabe who couldn’t get into the spelling police

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

To the people who just voted down, why ? I was under the impression that most members of the establishment are involved- if not in the crimes of raping, abusing and trafficking young teens at least in the poorly essayed cover up that we now witness. Who have we got here ? Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Tony Blair, some governor and whatnot, correct me if I’am wrong,but thats a full house. I , naturally assumed because Corbin is a member of the establishment, he was involved, sorry if I got that wrong. If that is why you downvoted I accept you correction Corbin was NOT involved in the Epstein conspiracy otherwise an explanation might be nice?

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

Leadership is a question of moral character.

wardropper
wardropper

I’m voting that up, because it’s true.
However, you seem to have no idea where that moral character is to be found today.
Try a new compass.

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

Is it possible you could state the grounds for that claim?

wardropper
wardropper

Basically just your willingness to swallow a cheap story about Corbyn being involved with “the Epstein conspiracy”.
He’s about the only prominent politician today with anything resembling a conscience, and most of us who read OffG are here because we are very much against swallowing cheap stories.
My criticism and suggestion were based upon that perception, but I apologize if I used overkill, since I noted that you accepted a correction on the above Corbyn issue.

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

I reckon you were right to upvote – I think its a tautology.

wardropper
wardropper

It’s just that we got off to a pretty bad start with your,

“There seems to be a lot of Corbin trolls on this thread. How anyone can shill for Corbin after his links to ” so called ” billionaire, Geoffrey Epstein have come to light?”

I have not encountered the phrase “shill for Corbyn before”…

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

I’m not suprised about that, there is no one shilling for Corbin.

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

he is on his own unless we help him

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym

Are you thinking of establishment mediawhore stooge Jane Corbin, Pablo. Such an elementary error wouldn’t surprise me, considering the dog’s-breakfast you lot made of the Skripal scam – to the extent that you now have to keep them kidnapped away somewhere unknown (or dead) just to keep them quiet. Er – the real world’s over here – when you want to re-join…

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

No I was thinking of what Joules Moules said the other day on a thread something about along the lines of ” in a long and dissolute life experience has taught me to suspect everyone ….” ,in the cui bono thread, which I cant find to give you the full correct quote.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“I was thinking of what Joules Moules said the other day on a thread something about along the lines of ” in a long and dissolute life experience has taught me to suspect everyone ….”

No, you weren’t “thinking along those lines”. You were pursuing a particular, defined end. You were fabricating, or knowingly quoting a fabrication of, a direct quote, with intent to establish, or help establish it as real news.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin

“I , naturally assumed because Corbin is a member of the establishment, he was involved [with Geoffrey Epstein”]

No, you didn’t “naturally assume” that. You didn’t “assume” it at all. In fact you supported it with a direct quote ( ” Geoffrey had a beautiful mind – and a billion dollars – whats a girl to do ?” ) specifically in order to cement it as actual information.

“sorry if I got that wrong.”

No, you didn’t get it wrong. You got confronted with it and backed off with a phoney apology that. And you’re not sorry, except for finding you have to back off or look like what you are. If you hadn’t been confronted with it you would happily skipped the apology and let it ride on.

Why don’t you just write your mind as it is without all the bullshit pfaffing around with phoney claims, phoney retractions and phoney apologies, lest some readers begin to imagine they can smell a rat.

wardropper
wardropper

You don’t pity us at all.
You wish you were capable of independent thought too.

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

You need to relax- I was attempting to make a joke – but with a point behind it. I was trying to suggest that the established leadership cadre seem shot through with corruption and maybe it is time for a change. I prefer Corbin, on moral grounds, over any other option, available in the voting booth. I trust Corbin more than any other option. Corbin attempts to refer to the moral category. None of the others do. Maybe its time to look at all this politics through a slightly different lens. Whether he succeeds or not is immaterial. As for pitying you, in reality why would I – I’m one of you.

wardropper
wardropper

Well then all is good.
I’m pretty relaxed generally, but without knowing people at all it is obviously easy to misunderstand the “tone” of their written comments.
I’ve landed in that quandary myself as often as anyone else, and I’m certainly with you in wishing for a real change.

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

You got class– even though you shill for Corbin! Cheers Wardropper

wardropper
wardropper

Oh, one tries…

Yarkob
Yarkob

oh ffs, it’s CORBYN. someone you seem to dislike and profess to want to help in the space of two posts. are you schizophrenic? At least deign to spell the guy’s name properly, eh

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig

I haven’t heard anything linking Corbyn to Epstein. Where did you here this? Being an anti-zionist, I can’t imagine why Corby would want to hang out with someone like Epstein. But maybe you know differently?

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

I’m sorry Seamus I was attempting to be satyrical I haven’t written anything for 30 years and since reading a lot CJ Hopkins over this past summer he has made be begin writing, which is great except it all comes out as a cack handed sub copy of CJ’s stuff. It will pass. For the record Jeremy Corbin never met Jeffrey Epstein. Cheers

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig

Phew! You had me going there for a minute. I thought I’d missed some important news nugget out there.

Yarkob
Yarkob

stick to your day job of poisoning your assets

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

Why , are you against people expressing themselves? I would of thought the average off-guardian reader would be delighted at someone doing something creative, especially if that person had done very little that was creative for a long while. You don’t seem to fit that pattern. Your comment seems pointlessly controversial, have you anything intelligent to say ? This isn;t an ” abuse ” board – its a comment board – try writing a comment and show some backbone.

milosevic
milosevic

f*** off, troll.

pablomillerunit
pablomillerunit

Milosevic, I agree with you. On the the humour bypass, do not worry, it happens to comedians from time to time – you have proably been overdoing it. Take a few day off, do nothing and let your batteries recharge, Don’t listen to the knockers ! You will be funny again. Over the last year some of you comments have made me laugh. Mark my words, a bit of rest and some pandering and you will be back to your razor sharp best. Remember, I believe in you, even if sometimes you do not believe in your self. You are too hard on your self, sometimes honesty shades into self doubt. Do not feel you are on your own, I am there for you every step of the way Cheers!

pablomillerunit

Steve Hayes

How intelligent does one have to be to be unable to understand the verb: to leave?

FrankSpeaker
FrankSpeaker

The verb to leave the EU is clear enough…

But no mention about leaving the Customs Union or the EEA, nor leaving without a deal, nor when the UK leaves.

So the Parliamentary representative democracy (voted in POST the referendum by the people) is put to work to try and make this desire to leave the EU work in practice; it’s not like walking out of the door when you cancel your gym club membership…

Democrats understand this, but extremists and anarchists struggle with the concept somewhat. And obscenely rich oligarchs who want to keep their tax havens use the media to sell the citizens a lie.

Steve Hayes

FrankSpeaker. The government’s Remain leaflet, sent to every household at more then £9 million, made it perfectly clear that if we voted to leave that would include leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union. https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160813202542/https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk

FrankSpeaker
FrankSpeaker

The leave the EU is clear enough…

But no mention about leaving the Customs Union or the EEA, nor leaving without a deal, nor when the UK leaves.

So the Parliamentary representative democracy (voted in POST the referendum by the people) is put to work to try and make this desire to leave the EU work in practice; it’s not like walking out of the door when you cancel your gym club membership…

Democrats understand this, but extremists and anarchists struggle with the concept somewhat. And obscenely rich oligarchs who want to keep their tax havens use the media to sell the citizens a lie.

mark
mark

The “parliamentary representative democracy” never had the slightest intention of implementing Brexit.
It just went through endless arcane mental and linguistic gymnastics to try to pretend otherwise, whilst doing precisely nothing for 3 years.