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Looking at the 9/11 False Flag After 18 Years

Greg Bacon

As we enter our 19th year of the event which forever changed our world and brought us the insanity of endless war, and a police state that is slowly choking the life out of freedom loving people, let us look back at that day.

18 years of this never ending War of Terror, waged against nations that had NOTHING to do with that attack, but which the Deep State had already decided they need to be busted up; partially to please Israel and partially to please Wall Street, which is making a killing off the killing.

The lies told about that day of infamy are legion, but we’ll just stick to a few pics from that day and after looking at these and see if anyone still believe the lies told about the 9/11 False Flag.

We were told that two airliners crashed into WTC 1 &2, which caused them to fall. Right. Look at this pic and answer the question posed: Does this look like a building collapse or buildings that had HE–High Explosives–pre-planted and detonated to make the ‘Twins’ fall?

How could a simple building collapse make the plume of smoke, heated gases and evaporated bodies rise over 4,000 feet into the air? This link goes into that much deeper and is well worth your time to look it over.

That site was developed by Heinz Pommer, a German physicist, who knows a little about what force and acceleration can do to a building mass and what happens to a structure that has been blown up.

But WTC 1 & 2 weren’t the only buildings that day which collapsed.

There’s the infamous WTC 7, which the National Institute of Standards and Technology ‘investigated’ and had to invent a new term, thermal expansion to explain why the building fell.

Thermal expansion claims that the fires in WTC 7 were so hot from the fires, the I-beams used to construct the building expanded, pulling apart, and that made the building fall.

A supposition so absurd that 15,000 scientists, including 52 Nobel Laureates and 63 recipients of the National Medal of Science disagreed.

Here’s a pic of WTC 7 before it fell. I’ve seen bigger fires in an out-of-control BBQ pit.

Yet another pic that shows the complete devastation that was allegedly caused by two passenger jets hitting WTC 1 & 2. If that is true, what caused WTC 3, 4, 5 & 6 to self-destruct?

Guess the nearly one BILLION dollars in missing gold and silver from WTC 4 might have had something to do with that False Flag?

Since that day, the USA has been on a lunatic rampage, blaming everyone for 9/11 except the ones who actually pulled off that job. Afghanistan is still occupied and getting bombed, but at least those CIA poppy fields are safe.

Iraq is still occupied and getting bombed. Iraq was a prosperous ME nation, but that’s in the past. They might never recover, not as long as the USA is still there.

Syria too was lumped in with that day, although they had NOTHING to do with that False Flag, but Israel wanted Syria destroyed so they could steal more land and that project is still in the making. Syria would have ceased to exit if Russia had not come to her aid.

Iran is in the Pentagon’s cross-hairs, with NeoCON and Zionist war mongers in the WH salivating at the thought of busting up another ME nation. Yemen too can be added to this lethal list, along with Libya, also blamed for the 9/11 False Flag, with no proof offered.

All it takes in the post-9/11 era to get the B-2’s headed your way are accusations and a lot of cable news talking heads breathlessly reporting lies.

No nation on Earth is safe from these violent lunatics, and neither are people.

Besides destroying nations, the USA has become a de facto police state, that gets more invasive each week, thanks to the advances in digital technology.

And it will continue to get worse until Americans rise up and demand that the truth be told about that day, or we can consign ourselves to living in a nation that thrives on tyranny, endless wars and terrorizing the world.

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Antonym
Antonym

The Al Qaida “planes operation” : https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jul/01/exile-review-osama-bin-laden-al-qaida

From the same researcher team: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2001/jun/23/weekend.adrianlevy

Not exactly UK Establishment supporters…….

Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge

That Physicist’s website you linked to seems to be suggesting Nukes in the basement, at least from one diagram. The building was built onto the bedrock 70ft below the Hudson with a retaining slurry wall. Many sub levels were intact following collapse as we can see from many pictures and videos. Even sections of the mall on the first level were intact. It needed only minor repair before reusing it for the new WTC complex, didn’t flood the PATH tunnels apart from fire hose water easily pumped out. There was no ionising radiation found although there was Tritium in the water samples which needs further investigation as to the nature of the event.

The Pyroclastic appearance of the dust clouds was striking but there was not one person burned by it, described as warm not hot by witnesses. Numerous accounts of people being lifted and placed down rather than violently thrown by an explosive gas expansion.

The website suggests the tiny seismic signals recorded are consistent with a nuclear bomb in the basement? I would have thought that would be an excellent way to generate a huge seismic signal. How can a Physicist seriously suggest hot nukes in the basement fit that evidence?

http://www.deepexcavation.com/uploads/case_studies/WTC_TimesPhoto_Edited_1small.JPG
comment image

Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge

Path tunnel construction. How could a nuke in the basement not fracture the tunnels and flood Lower Manhattan?comment image

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE

In terms of Nuclear Demolition the nukes are measured & controlled to a point of being referred to as ‘mini nukes’. Research Military Nuclear Demolition and you will find a Russian Federation tech specialist that have solved the 911 conundrum of Nuclear Demolition being utilized for WTC 1 & 2 BASEMENT level nuclear detonation & aftermath of photographed bedrock that is available on Google if you search.

Stick to your day job.

MOU

milosevic
milosevic

available on Google if you search

It’s a common characteristic of disinformation, that it makes its claims without citing any evidence at all, and then invites the presumed audience to find it for themselves, “on Google if you search”.

If the proponents of such claims do not take them seriously enough to bother with references to supposedly convincing evidence, then it’s a mystery why anybody else would.

nomad
nomad

havent you heard? this thread is no longer active.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE

The thread started days ago and I’m not exactly enthralled about 911 anymore but I will walk you through the Controlled Nuclear Demolition if you insist, Nomad.

MOU

nomad
nomad

no need. but you can answer the question i posed above. id be interested in that.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE

I am a pinko Commie bastard, Nomad. If an American starts dialog with vituperative denials & rhetoric aimed at pinko Commie bastards like myself I, for one, am hypersensitive to that as a Communist adherent.

The CIA paid trolls are far too transparent to be of any use for propagandistic purposes given that I can spot them a mile offshore every time. OFF-G is loaded with minimum wage Information Operations trolls. Eric Blair is one of them and so too is whatshisface.

MOU

nomad
nomad

ok. i think i understand. but racism is a serious charge. i like to know what people mean when they make the accusation.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE

Corrected link:

https://archive.org/details/911TheThirdTruth-AnInsideStoryBySovietNuclearOfficerDimitri

P.S. I spelled Dimitri’s name wrong on the last link, sorry.

MOU

Maggie
Maggie

MOI
Thank you for this link. I have been researching ever since 911 and this proves everything without a doubt for me…
I have attempted to buy the book?
Guess what? It is unavailable!!

Maggie
Maggie
Maggie

MOI

Not sure now about Dimitri’s evaluations, after watching Part 2?

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE

I had tech help getting all of the 911 documentaries that were published on Internet regarding 911. I spent years watching every single entire published documentary on 911 subject matter and then I let it all jell so I could ruminate on it over time. Dimitri whatshisname from the Russian Federation produced one of the best documentaries ever published about 911.

What I have in terms of Dimitri’s documentary is a four part series of video documentary that is approximately four hours long. I still have the doc if you can’t get it all. Five Eyes Intel has scrubbed most of Dimitri’s stuff today so most of what he researched will not be available to a large segment of the Internet population.

Whenever an incident like 911 manifests you have to get all the information that you can get surrounding the subject matter before the intel agencies scrub the Internet to make sure more researchers can’t get copies. Dimitri’s stuff was heavily censored by the CIA.

If you have any questions regarding Military Nuclear Demolition & the 911 inside job of USA CIA/NSA/FBI/et cetera. feel free to post the questions here and I’ll do my best to help.

MOU

Oliver
Oliver

The warm but not hot pyroclastic cloud? So all those hundreds of burnt out vehicles blocks away were a little bit too warm? Lovely photo by the way. What’s it of?

Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge

As stated the pictures are of the Bathtub wall after clean up, and the PATH tunnel construction through Bathtub wall.

You mean the cars in a parking lot 1/4 mile away where one car will be wrecked and the one next to it not burnt? The cars on FDR 1/2 mile away? Or the cars and train carraiges in the WTC sub levels that were unburnt? How about the ambulance parked outside without a burn or dent in it? What about the car across the road outside WFC that was filpped but not burnt? What kind of special fire proof paper was used in the WTC?
Who could possibly misrepresent such evidence as that of hot dust cloud/nuke in the basement?
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Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge

The car lot 1/4 mile away

Editor: We should point out that the cars were likely towed to this location from points closer to the WTC complex. The claim they were burned at this location and are evidence for ‘directed energy beams’ is therefore not well supported

Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge

I’m sorry but the parking lot cars are beyond doubt. If you watch the video you will see there is a picture from before the collapse of the North Tower (parking lot is NE of WTC), streets full of fire engines but clear of debris, with the same cars in pristine condition and then a picture after collapse of the same arrangement of cars selectively burnt. If you’re in a hurry go to 2:44 for the section on the parking lot.
If these cars were towed there, they would have to remove the previous cars and arrange the burnt cars in the previous pattern of colour and model and then torch a section of the shrubbery behind the cars. That seems less likely to me especially as the wide angle shot shows West street blocked by Emergency Service vehicles.
We have eye witness statements of cars ‘spontaneously combusting’ on FDR drive 1/2 mile away. With the parking lot we have photographic evidence.
I applaud scepticism but this is very important and should not be dismissed so easily just because it doesn’t fit an agenda.
If anyone has evidence to the contrary I’ll be more than happy to hear it. I don’t expect the moderators to watch every link posted. Why should you? But to comment on the “likely” movement of the cars without actually knowing or checking is troubling. Next you’ll be putting a link to a website with the sanctioned version of events under comments like YouTube does on controversial videos.

Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge

And an eye witness statement from Thomas Spinard as they were running North on North End Ave after WTC1 collapse saw the parking lot fire. First and only time I’ve seen paper fires mentioned too.

WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER THOMAS SPINARD
Interview Date: January 11, 2002

“After the second one, they took Joe
away in an ambulance. I said, well, I’m not too
bad. I’ll stay around. I walked back just to
see if I could pull anybody out or put fires out
or whatever. There were cars burning in the
parking lots over here, big paper debris fires
going on all over the place. ”

https://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110445.PDF

Maggie
Maggie

Los Alamos Lodge
”Not one person burned?

What is this then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpadxgHuMEg

Los Alamos Lodge
Los Alamos Lodge

Seriously? The first guy, the only one with a stated history, says he was in an elevator that was “on fire”. How does that relate to me saying the dust cloud was not hot and therefore not a typical Pyroclastic or mushroom cloud of thousands of degrees. Where’s the people burned by the expanding gas clouds or radiation?

Whatever your intention if you present some accurate evidence you might inform people. Perhaps that wasn’t your intention. I can only guess how many bots you can fit in a VW Beetle.

At what temperature does paper burn?
comment image

Oliver
Oliver

I think it’s called inversion, so ‘Los Alamos Lodge’ uses a pseudonym derived from the Manhattan Project to refute Manhattan Project derivatives used in Manhattan 11 September 2001. Neutrons pass straight through dry paper as so on. The main energies used in the destruction of the WTC twin towers were directed upwards so, of course, the ‘bathtub’ integrity would not have been affected.

    Los Alamos Lodge
    Los Alamos Lodge

    That comment shows your intention clearly. “Neutrons pass through dry paper”? So this mini nuke doesn’t produce high temps? Nukes inflict damage by flinging neutrons around? The energy was “directed upwards”? So ‘directional and selective’ mini nukes? Or something deflecting the energy upwards without causing any damage or seismic signal below. I could do with one of those as I was planning on just ducking and covering.
    Los Alamos refers to the laboratory, and the Dept of Energy not the Manhattan project, which was only one project there, but is a useful example of new technology successfully being kept secret.
    It’s amazing how little information and evidence gets referenced by people apparently hoping to find and expose the truth. Comment sections even here are like a microcosm of the internet. Well meaning people drowned out by misinformation, half truths and professional or automated trolls.

    Oliver
    Oliver

    There was plenty of seismic signal. Below ‘Ground Zero’ stayed hot for months and melted granite. The dust was referred to as ‘Fall Out’. It is staring us in the face.

    Editor:

    The dust was referred to as ‘Fall Out’.

    Only by people like you, Oliver

    Los Alamos Lodge
    Los Alamos Lodge

    I’ve just watched Kevin Ryan at the Toronto Hearings and he listed eye witnesses as proof of a hot dust cloud. One was named (Thomas Spinard? NYFD) and around 8 unnamed. One having “1st and 2nd degree burns” and one with a “burning neck”. If anyone has a link to videos, articles or even names I’d be grateful. I can’t find any listing on AE911Truth website, perhaps it’s in one of their videos or articles I haven’t seen?
    Thanks

    Kevin Ryan

    I’ve been asked to have a look at this question. The witnesses are named in The Toronto Hearing Report and in this article.
    https://digwithin.net/2013/12/08/thermite/
    I believe these and similar testimonies are captured at 911DataSets.org as well.

    As for “Mini-nukes,” that hypothesis was put to bed long ago.
    http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/a/Hard-Evidence-Rebudiates-the-Hypothesis-that-Mini-Nukes-were-used-on-the-wtc-towers-by-steven-jones.pdf

    Best wishes. KR

    Los Alamos Lodge
    Los Alamos Lodge

    Thanks, I’m not arguing for mini nukes, quite the opposite. I’m trying to establish the soundness of the claim for the dust cloud being hot, considering the lack of burns to those caught in the roll out and the lush green trees in all directions. We have photographs of car fires in progress (and before and after) in the parking lot NW of Vesey and West yet the trees surrounding it are green by the time the satellite photographs were taken on 23rd. Even trees on Church St beneath WTC5 and 4 are green on the 12th/13th in NYFD videos. St Paul’s Chapel grounds is untouched.
    Thomas Spinard witnessed parking lot fires while on North End Ave. Which means the “something in the dust” you suggested was toasting the cars was not burning trees, the majority of paper or people in between (I’ll look into Marcel Claes, this may be the only documented case. You also mentioned someone with a “burning neck” and another with “socks on fire” in Toronto but I don’t see them listed in the page you linked.) This would appear to be a selective pattern of damage effecting different materials in very different ways.
    Do you have an explanation for this? If the dust is hot enough to set fire to a car how can the trees be green, how can socks catch fire but burn not the wearer’s exposed skin?
    Isn’t the evidence of cars bursting into flames in the parking lot, and also in Seaport witnessed from FDR Drive (by EMT Alan Cook) proof that the official story is false? Wouldn’t this prove that fires in the building and a collapse could not have left this pattern of selective destruction and another investigation could be opened without the need for a jury to agree with the analysis of the red-grey chips as nanothermite or an analogue? Or explain how the temperatures in the debris were so high that metal was molten but also fuse with a bible without burning it while first responders and cadaver dogs were able to navigate the site without burns?
    Clearly the debris was energetic as recorded by the IR images but as with your analogy of “Methane on Titan being accepted by everyone”, if we had abundant contradictory evidence we might have to wonder if something else could be responsible for the reading of that signature wavelength for methane, or temperature in this case.
    Why does AE911Truth dismiss all the toasted cars as having been towed from nearer the WTC despite indisputable evidence to the contrary for the parking lot and further away. Surely evidence like this would be more convincing to the public and a jury than comparing the accuracy of two computer models for the WTC7 collapse and much cheaper.
    If AE911Truth expert witnesses plan on citing a hot or “super hot dust cloud” as evidence in any legal proceedings do you have a more detailed analysis? Dr Neils Harit has in the past explained the toasted car damage as caused by molten iron and unburned Thermite spraying out from the towers and landing on the roofs. Is this the “something in the dust” you suggested at Toronto? This wouldn’t explain the preferential damage to engine blocks or the action on specific materials, the distinct areas of physical damage and geographical distribution.
    Apologies for the overly long post, please don’t feel you need to reply directly at length. I’d be more than happy to see these questions addressed in an article or such (a paper would be even better) but I’m sure you appreciate how important it is to address the physical evidence in it’s entirety and not ‘cherry pick’. I do believe this alone is enough to prove the official story to be false and free the public and the scientific community to reexamine the evidence without derision in a way the free-fall speeds, presence of red-grey chips and microspheres has not.

    Can we afford to put all our eggs in one high temperature basket?
    Let’s hope it’s not too late for truth and justice to win out.

    For those who don’t know the parking lot is to the NW and Seaport is just south of Brooklyn Bridge to the SE of the WTC. Satellite image taken on the 23rd Sept
    comment image

    Los Alamos Lodge
    Los Alamos Lodge

    RONALD COYNE EMT
    “MY SAFETY COAT WAS ALREADY ON FIRE MY SOCKS WERE ON
    FIRE. I WAS ALREADY COVERED WITH SOOT AND ALL SORTS OF
    PARTICLES THAT WERE COMING OUT OF THE BUILDING”
    What temperature would the dust have to be to ignite a safety coat? And why the socks?
    MARCEL CLAES
    “first and second degree burns on my back, ended up in
    the crack of my ass, and that’s where the worst”
    His mouth and throat and eyes were full of dust but they weren’t burnt. Very strange burn patterns for a hot dust cloud. Almost sounds more like chemical burns. Either way that’s two credible account of burns.

    Derek
    Derek

    Vlad didn’t help much…..

    Since that day, the USA has been on a lunatic rampage, blaming everyone for 9/11 except the ones who actually pulled off that job. Afghanistan is still occupied and getting bombed, but at least those CIA poppy fields are safe.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/09/10/ar911.russia.putin/index.html

    When the United States prepared to attack al Qaeda in Afghanistan, Putin offered more than words of support.

    “Russia will continue to provide intelligence information we have collected on the infrastructure, location and training of international terrorists,” he said.

    In a stunning decision, the Russian president coordinated with central Asian nations to allow U.S. forces, for the first time, to use military bases of the former Soviet Union.


    Iraq is still occupied and getting bombed. Iraq was a prosperous ME nation, but that’s in the past. They might never recover, not as long as the USA is still there.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/saddam.terror/

    “I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received … information that official organs of Saddam’s regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations,” Putin said

    BuntingMapIsraelChin
    BuntingMapIsraelChin

    I consider myself a conduit for the truth and I do it to bring justice to the WTC jumpers, police and firefighters who died with a belief that someone would tell the truth.

    Soviet Israel did 9/11

    Israel is a Soviet Russian client state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Israel

    Where are all the Prime Ministers of Israel born?

    Russian Empire, Russian Empire, Russian Empire, Russian Empire, Russian Empire, Jerusalem (parents from Russian Empire), Russian Empire, Russian Empire, Russian Empire, Palestine (parents from Russian Empire), Palestine (parents from Russian Empire), Palestine (parents from Russian Empire), Palestine (parents from Russian Empire)

    Every single Prime Minister of Israel was either born in the Russian Empire, or their parents came from the Russian Empire. All their families came from Communist roots. Israel was created during the Soviet Communist era, and the first ruler of Israel was an admitted Communist.

    “I’m a Bolshevik!” – David Ben Gurion, first Prime Minister of Israel

    “It cannot be overstated. Bolshevism committed the greatest human slaughter of all time.” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Israel is a Soviet era invention and backdoor to the West. Israel/Russia have used Trump to facilitate a manufactured trade war with China, allowing Israel the billions of dollars in trade with China.

    The Times of Israel: In Beijing, Netanyahu looks to ‘marry Israel’s technology with China’s capacity’
    BBC: Unlikely partners? China and Israel deepening trade ties
    Newsweek: How Israel Used Weapons and Technology to Become an Ally of China
    Military.com: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China
    China’s Deepening Interest in Israel “Ties between Jerusalem and Beijing have never been this strong.”

    Every time Trump slaps a couple of hundred billion in tariffs and limits trade with China, in steps Israel with stolen U.S. technology and the trading block of Russia and China in the Belt and Road Initiative draw ever closer. This includes Turkey, who actually makes parts for the Lockheed crown jewel of technology, the F-35.

    The Guardian: “The million-plus citizens of the former Soviet Union who migrated to Israel in the past 20 years have not only made new lives of their own but they have transformed their adopted country. They have influenced the culture, hi-tech industry, language, education and, perhaps most significantly, Israeli politics.”

    The Guardian: Israel to lure Soviet Jews from Germany
    “An Israeli intelligence organisation is to send its agents to Germany to try to persuade tens of thousands of Jews from the former Soviet Union to settle in Israel.”

    The Times of Israel: Top Israeli officials were part of KGB spy ring – report
    KGB Infiltrated Highest Echelons of Israel’s Army, Business, and Political Leadership

    The Guardian: “According to Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics around 30% of immigrants from the former Soviet Union in the 1990s were not Jews. In 2005 that figure leapt to 59%.”

    The Guardian: “Lily Galili, an Israeli journalist writing a book about the impact of the tidal wave from the former Soviet Union; ‘They didn’t want to integrate. They wanted to lead. They changed the nature of the country. For many years the joke was that Israel had become the 51st state of the US. Instead we have become just another Soviet republic. It’s quite a twist in the story.'”

    The most advanced CPU fabrication factory in the world, Intel, is actually in Israel and Russians have the full run of the place.

    Trump is Bibi’s Rabbinic golem and while you’re wasting your time on tranny and race issues, Israel is running the technology out the door as fast as they can.

    With Israel being a cyber technology juggernaut, they’re just going to get a bunch of golem robots. That’s what’s going to happen. They don’t even need us Goyim anymore. They’re going to stick us in smart cities and let us die.

    Is it not so that the former Head Sephardic Rabbi of Israel (Ovadia Yosef), the equivalent to the Pope in Catholicism, stated, as reported in the Israeli paper The Jewish Post… “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel”

    “Why are non-Jews needed?” – Head Serphadic Rabbi of Israel, Ovadia Yosef

    The Goyim will be herded into the United Nations’ habitat smart cities program where human beings will be chipped, surveilled, psychologically conditioned, vaccinated, sterilized, and supervised by a combination of AI and robotics.

    This is the people who will control the smart cities and they actually have to question why you even deserve to live…

    “Cyber is a real domain of power. The future belongs to those who can seize this change. We are positioned right at the cusp of this change. We can take it and we are. It is giving us power that we’ve never had before.” – Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel

    All of this information and much, much, more is in the videos of Brendon O’Connell, who is in exile in Malaysia: https://archive.org/details/2.israelispyingandracismexposed-shortversion

    If you watch the videos listed on that page, you will understand how dire the situation is in terms of the high-tech transfer to Israel.

    “The feigned disunity of the communist world promotes real disunity in the noncommunist world… False alignments, former with third parties by each side against the other, make it easier to achieve specific communist goals, such as the acquisition of advanced technology or the negotiation of arms control agreements or communist penetration of Arab and African states. In Western eyes the military, political, economic, and ideological threat from world communism appears diminished.” – Anatoliy Golitsyn, New Lies For Old

    One must ask, just who is running Israel and who is running the United States?

    “Instead we [Israel] have become just another SOVIET republic.”

    SFGate: US to buy Israeli missile defenses in humiliating admission about failure of US systems

    See, you need to send your high-technology, particularly your military industrial complex, DARPA sections, all your latest and greatest cyber security and missiles, you need to send it to Israel where the Chosen People are, where all the Soviet scientists… I mean where all the precious Jewish Israelis hang out.

    Oh, America. You are in such trouble it’s not funny. I don’t know when pride is going to kick in, but hopefully soon.

    The JC: America announces it will buy Iron Dome defence system from Israel

    America is allowing the transfer of the Silicon Valley high-technology innovation edge to Tel Aviv where all the Russians are, which once you lose you’ve lost forever, and its the end of the United States economically, completely. They’re security is gone. Everything is gone. America may already be there.

    The Belt and Road Initiative (Israel, Russia, China, Iran) will help to establish Greater Israel which will be the new United States. You are being pushed aside now, America. The future high-tech edge is in Israel, Russia, and China. As the Russian Jewish oligarch Boris Berevosky who elevated Putin to the presidency said, with the citizenry thus permanently divided and popular dissatisfaction safely channeled into meaningless deadends, Russia’s rulers would maintain unlimited wealth and for themselves, with little threat to their reign.

    Who do you think was behind the push of the post abortion fake issue? They are trying to preserve the Evangelical vote for Trump because as long as he’s President, the looting of America’s high-tech is a golden calf.

    Instead of talking about the biggest issue right now; penetration of the high-technology innovation edge being transferred to Israel where Russia’s people are. America, you already know you’re in trouble.

    It all started with LEKEM: Dr. Jordan Baruch, Yuval Ne’eman, Meir Amit, Dan Tolkovsky. Israeli military intelligence set-up to find advanced technology for Israel, with a particular focus on the United States, and feed it back to the Soviet Union in the 60s and 70s.

    “I have had long conversations over the past two weeks with contacts at the Army War College, at it’s headquarters, Marine Corps and I made it absolutely clear in both cases that it is 100 percent certain that 9/11 was a Mossad operation. Period. If the American people ever realize whats happened, Israel is done. I have a dream as Martin Luther King Jr. once said and my dream is that the 5th and 6th U.S. Fleet take Israel and cream it.” – Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Head of Studies at the U.S. Army War College

    MASTER OF UNIVE
    MASTER OF UNIVE

    As a self-appointed ‘conduit of truth’ you should know that you are a racist and disqualified from reasoned judgement simply by a lack of education.

    The scientific method will save you.

    MOU

    Mucho
    Mucho

    @ MOU Please enlighten us as to your knowledge of the subjects outlined in this post, and qualify what you have said with counter arguments based on fact. The writer gives links and facts, you offer nothing but assertion. Please specify which parts are racist. Your post is so suspect, you are now on the special list (you already were in my book, and presumably others, but now everyone who maybe gave you credit can put you on the special list as well, so transparent is your style).

    MASTER OF UNIVE
    MASTER OF UNIVE

    You are now on my list too, BuckO. And I don’t waste my time with racist trolls.

    MOU

    Mucho
    Mucho

    Keep digging

    Robbobbobin
    Robbobbobin

    “As a self-appointed ‘conduit of truth’ you should know that you are a racist and disqualified from reasoned judgement simply by a lack of education”

    It’s you who needs the education, Sonny Jim.

    Start here:

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-the-darker-side-of-ben-gurion-1.5354147

    and give yourself some clues from there on: Israel has been an appalling hotbed of vicious racism from the Torah on, and its modern resurgence in Zionism leaves nothing of that ancient tradition unrestored and unadorned. Like Israel and Judah they’re still at it full on internally with Mizrahim and Ashkenazim and externally with Palestinians, Persians and anyone else their primitive tribal God and modern psychotic culture chooses to smote.

    MASTER OF UNIVE
    MASTER OF UNIVE

    I’m far too connected politically to go wading into cultural racism at the level of Israel.
    When involved in politics at the level I am at one must be hyperaware of racist discourse that could later be thrown as mud that sticks.

    I studied Freud for many years, and Marx too. My favorite professors of all time are Jews. I have the greatest admiration for the Jewish scholars that I have studied over time and I feel wholeheartedly uncomfortable being involved in online discourse that slams Jews or their traditions vis-a-vis religion. I’m an Anglican too, and understand how weird organized religion is to people that don’t follow religion at all.

    There is no possible way that I would accept any discourse that would start out with obvious slight towards Jewish culture & people when the word ‘goyim’ is used to set Jews up en masse as being so arrogant that they think they are better than everyone else.

    The Jewish professors that taught me Experimental Psychology never acted like that at all. The most edifying teachers I have had were Jews. I have learned much from Jews and I love them as a people. Starting a discussion about Jewish people from a position of hate & racism is counterproductive from my pedagogical standpoint of utilizing discourse for purposes of education.

    I do not engage in discourse to become indoctrinated in terms of hate. Hate itself is counterintuitive & counterproductive for learning. I am well versed in terms of Learning Theory. I am a Social Scientist that works from logic and not dogma or rhetoric. I follow the Scientific Method, Empiricism, Epistemology, Historiography, & logic.

    MOU

    Mucho
    Mucho

    This is about a cabal, not the entire population of a faith.

    MASTER OF UNIVE
    MASTER OF UNIVE

    One cannot undo wrongs committed in the name of those that dictate terms for the oligopoly or ‘cabal’ as you call it, if one focuses on some nefarious longwinded diatribe of a contrived historiography that descends into yet ever more rabbit holes of contrived historiography that are all layered onto top of something that starts out as biased from square one when regional hatreds reign paramount in discourse.

    Anyone that wades into debates about Jews and Israel ought to know that it is entirely within reason to approach regional disparity between sovereign nations and regions without engaging in historical hatred of ethnicity. Israel is a corporation and as such is liable for wrongs against the Muslim world for their serial felonies committed in the name of sovereignty and not ethnicity. One can indict & convict a corporate entity that is criminally liable for any & all crimes on the books internationally.

    If you are going to go after the corporation of Israel you had best start with a good case to do so. The same applies for indictment of the Corporation of the United States of America.

    P.S. ‘The cabal’ has a CEO.

    MOU

    Mucho
    Mucho

    I think you make great points, that these are corporations, that corporations USA and of course UK, then Saudi and Russia and China and all the rest of the players, are neck deep in this too. It’s a complicated web. It is the corporate world and mantra which needs to be dismantled, anything that produces the MIC has to be viewed as evil and treated as such, certainly not placed centre stage of human existence and given virtually unlimited freedom to do as it pleases. In the links the OP puts, Brendon does put forward a very strong case that Israel is a nefarious player in this and becoming evermore dominant, via technology transfer from the US. There is masses of evidence linking Israel to 9/11, and with this all being so serious, ie wars being waged via lies, we have to look at who the players are. The Clean Break Papers and the track record of the Neocons and PNAC who are intrinsically linked to Israel, plus Israeli influence over US foreign policy and government via AIPAC and dual passport holding government officials, people like John Bolton and Dick Cheney who are US Zionists. Same in the UK via Friends of Israel and scores of other lobby groups and institutions, all geared towards what’s best for Israel and being found out using underhand tactics ie plotting to bring down government Ministers on camera. The list goes on, there is plenty to be legitimately concerned about.

    MASTER OF UNIVE
    MASTER OF UNIVE

    Think laws, and officers of the corporation, and then process them in the courts, for their egregious felonies committed.
    No need to use words like ‘Zionism’ or ‘Globalism’ or ‘Neoliberalism’ when one is working off of criminal code to apply it to the corporate shenanigans, and officers of the corporation.

    The problem of corporate capture & law will never be addressed if these corporate entities are never challenged appropriately via criminal code & objective assessment in a court of law. In brief, logic & laws on the books are pretty much the only tools to use if one wants to indict a sovereign breaking international laws.

    Cheers, MOU

    Oliver
    Oliver

    There is masses of evidence linking 9/11 with Israel. Almost too obvious, really. It is hiding something.

      nomad
      nomad

      im curious. BuntingMapIsraelChin makes some intriguing and perhaps radical assertions, but what is it about them you find ‘racist’? is BuntingMapIsraelChin making false accusations?

      MASTER OF UNIVE
      MASTER OF UNIVE

      I don’t want to re-read his racism to answer your question, nomad. My comments were made a while ago when the thread was active.

      I’m a Communist that watches out for Americans bashing Communists reflexively like knee-jerk responses that are autonomic.

      Anyone that claims to be ‘a conduit of truth’ is neither truthful or acting like a conduit.
      The poster is merely pushing propaganda for the Americans.

      MOU

      nomad
      nomad

      ok. thanks.

      Greg Bacon
      Greg Bacon

      I’d like to add another curious coincidence regarding 9/11. Remember last week when the FBI said they were going to name the Saudi or Saudis that had a hand in the 9/11 attacks? Two days later, the KSA Aramco oil refinery gets attacked, and the MSM start screaming it was Iran. The Usual Suspect in the Congress say Amen to that and that story disappears, buried under war talk.

      Just like what happened on 9/11. The day before, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld stated that 2.3 TRILLION was missing from the Pentagon. What should of been the lead story on 9/11 was buried in the rubble of the WTC.

      Oliver
      Oliver

      Find out who created Saudi Arabia in the first instance to get closer to the perpetrator.

      MASTER OF UNIVE
      MASTER OF UNIVE

      Rummy was point man for the entire operation and was vetted by Pentagon brass for decades before he assumed power & the helm. Rummy was front & center CNN and acted like he was a rock star politician. Rummy gave the American people financial accounting news that made him look honest & credible because it was damning information that the American taxpayers were sure to become irate over if the next day’s events did not overshadow it. Rummy was front & center for the next day’s events when he was first spotted attaining further credibility by helping assist recovery of injured personnel after the missile struck the Pentagon. Rummy was front & center CNN every step of the way and then he was holding daily news conferences via CNN which played orchestral music for soundtracks.

      The greatest news junkie journalist hack that ever existed was Hunter S. Thompson and he advised all to never believe the news being delivered via the main stream news as he was adept enough to know the process & arbitrage of perceptions were completely biased 100% of the time. In the case of 911 Thompson advocated determining modus operandi via money & motive as the most key determinants of interest to inquiring minds pressing for facts that can be checked & verified objectively.

      Rummy was most assuredly the Pentagon kingpin career criminal most trusted by colleagues given that the brass picked him to lead the operation against the American people and world. In brief, on behalf of the Council on Foreign Relations Rummy was point man for the largest power brokers in banking throughout the entire world given that America was forced into war against Iraq by enemies of Iraq. Moreover, we can conclude with accuracy that Rummy dragged Americans unwittingly into preconceived war preparations with the Middle East that were entirely in the interests of the banks alone & the regional enemy of Iraq which is only Israel.

      WTC 1 & 2, plus Building 7 were mere props for public consumption. Israel wanted a regional enemy assassinated. And whomever facilitated the Saudi oil refinery drone attacks & bombing was likely and most probably Israel where Bibi is attempting to secure his hold on power for yet more terms of totalitarianism & more genocide of human beings for political gain.

      Instead of tax breaks Bibi offers sections of the West Bank to Israeli voters. He makes campaign promises to attack Gaza whilst blaming Iran for the incursions via American media so that Americans get all riled up at ethnicities that happen to be ethnicities that Israeli people don’t like based upon historic hatred & racism that has been weaponized via the MSM in the USA & Steve Bannon who plays point man for drummed up regional hatred of the Muslim world which he seems to not like very much as a Catholic from America.

      Did the Roman Catholic Church indoctrinate Steve Bannon to hate Muslim people throughout the entire world? Will the Pope pin a church medal on Steve Bannon when American soldiers start killing Iranians for Israel?

      MOU

      Deschutes
      Deschutes

      Thoroughly enjoyed this article, kudos!

      Whitney Webb has also recently published a great article on 9-11, how 18 years after that tragic day over half of Americans doubt the official U.S. government narrative, and that the Fire Departments of NYC are now demanding a new investigation into what really happened on 9-11. From Webb’s article below linked, is a quote from NY Fire Dept Commissioner Christopher Gioia-

      “Whereas, the overwhelming evidence presented in said petition demonstrates beyond any doubt that pre-planted explosives and/or incendiaries — not just airplanes and the ensuing fires — caused the destruction of the three World Trade Center buildings, killing the vast majority of the victims who perished that day;”

      https://www.mintpressnews.com/americans-questioning-official-september-11-new-wtc-7-evidence/261744/

      The NYC Fire Department, the first responders to the attacks HEARD the explosions going off in the buildings. They want a new investigation, with NO GW Bush-Dickhead Cheney CIA bullshit interference. Good for them.

      Joe
      Joe

      Don’t you nutjobs ever give up? You do realise you’re giving the Guardian a good name don’t you?

      George Cornell
      George Cornell

      It would take a lot more than what you imagine about us lot.

      Joe
      Joe

      Tu

      Deschutes
      Deschutes

      Most insightful thing you’ve said all day.

      RopeResearch
      RopeResearch

      from the article: “This link goes into that much deeper and is well worth your time to look it over”

      Before you click on that link, it is advisable, you first develop a strategy to collect a dropped jaw from under where you’re sitting.

      http://www.911history.de/aaannxyz_ch01_en.html#autoid891273/

      Also, how on earth, it took 18 years for a lot of readers to see this gigantic mushroom rising after the collapse of building 7?

      Convinced that dumbing down of the masses is done intentionally?
      Any doubt, Controlled Corporate Media’s job is to conceal rather than reveal?

      Oliver
      Oliver

      The Manhattan Project remains active even now. It was hidden in the plainest sight September 11 2001.

        Mucho
        Mucho

        It’s no accident that the WTC site is called “Ground Zero”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_zero
        In terms of nuclear explosions and other large bombs, the term “ground zero” (also known as “surface zero”[1]) describes the point on the Earth’s surface closest to a detonation.[2] In the case of an explosion above the ground, ground zero refers to the point on the ground directly below the nuclear detonation and is sometimes called the hypocenter (from Greek ὑπο- “under-” and center).

        Neal Hugh Hurwitz
        Neal Hugh Hurwitz

        huh??????????

        Brian Steere

        The author might do better to say ‘changed my worldview forever’ as a leveraging of narrative control that reveals a mindset – and world of perpetual war – as the means of its own ‘sustainability’.

        Making ‘sacred history’ of deceitful witness is surely taking the bait and running with it.

        The world-view and the real world are NOT the same. But acceptance – by whatever device – of the first inherently and automatically frames the perceptions and experience of the second – and determines all responses or reactions within its mind set.

        The mind of vengeance works self-hate under illusion of victory set over worship of grievance.
        It is a mind-trap. Self-hate is the root of doublethink operating as a narrative identity.

        The world is not as the mind has self-conditioned it to be – unless you insist.
        Then you have your reward until of course, you change your mind about your mind.
        No one can change what they are unwilling or unready to own.

        How ANYTHING affects you is truly by your response to it – and this is an expression of your core definitions and beliefs by which you ‘make sense’ of your life and world – according to the purpose that was running when those strategies of survival were inherited and acquired.

        Running on old fear-mind is a golem that others manipulate. Everyone learns to manipulate others as part of masking in and masking from from feared exposure. Much of this is internalised default of subconscious habit as an implicit sense of self-defence.

        Deceits and denials grow in the dark to undermine us from below and yet within our own thinking.
        We are trained and have learned to think in a currency of derivative and divorced meanings that expresses and perpetuates perpetual conflict – but under the Ministry of truth – such a slavery is declared as freedom. Truth is denied by the attempt to sustain an illusion – set against great fear or evil.

        War on ‘anything’ is setting it as the frame of our sights and propagating it with our ‘answers’. There must be another way of living and seeing – and so the willingness to see must release what we think we know, enough to find out or indeed be found in truth – which simply does not ‘fit’ into the frame of conflicted and polarised symbol and concept. But any moment of truth transforms our thought and perceptions to a more integrative appreciation.

        Do we come here to live or to die?
        The call to embrace life is not the fear of pain of loss – but we have this ‘mind’ within us and it will usurp our mind of its true function – even as we see acted out upon our World.
        Deceits are given power by the heart’s allegiance to them in despair, cynicism, and hate – regardless their masking in positive forms of presentation and appeal.
        Toxic debts pile up to demand payment or to be cancelled.
        The mind of the capacity to repackage hate in complex instruments of conflict management as control is running as survival instinct while delivering us unto evil – because that is its starting place. Garbage in; garbage out. Sowing only as we would in truth, reap is relative to our consciousness now – that is what we have forgotten when we set our reward in some new world order to which now must be sacrificed and so can never truly arrive. Perpetual conflict is built in to the attempt to be what we are not and defend self in image, narrative or model – against the true relational unfolding expression of life.

        Mee
        Mee

        They weren’t passenger planes either – passenger planes have windows!

        Joe
        Joe

        Psycho

        vexarb
        vexarb

        @Joe; Psycho.

        Sorry to hear about your trouble, but how can we help you?

        Joe
        Joe

        You could disappear. That would help.

        George Cornell
        George Cornell

        Just hold your hands over your eyes while we pinch our noses.

        Rhisiart Gwilym
        Rhisiart Gwilym

        Joe, the Tel Aviv Central paid-troll farms are over there, in zionistan. They’re strong on trashing 11/9 truth, because – it seems increasingly likely – that it was zionistani plotters who were the ultimate architects of the atrocities; together with traitor compradors amongst the USAmerican ‘elite’ too, obviously. (Readers, please see https://bollyn.com/ for an extensive hard-evidence collection demonstrating zionistani originating-involvement in the attacks.)

        But Joe, you’re going to have to up your game a whole lot on what you’ve managed so far, if you want them actually to pay you for your bollocks-inputs. Otherwise, your twelve-year-old-like efforts are just going to cause more of the derisive titters that they’ve attracted so far.

        zionistani public-perception manipulators *will* pay for organised, methodical troll-work, but not for low-grade sub-teeny shite like yours has been so far.

        Joe
        Joe

        Amazing. How do you type in a straightjacket?

        Editor: Joe is clearly a witless troll. Please don’t engage with him.

        RopeResearch
        RopeResearch

        I always thought the French have weight in the intellect department. I thought they wouldn’t be susceptible to tribal thinking and the people wouldn’t be led easily like sheep.

        The day following 9/11, the headlines in Paris claimed: Nous sommes tous Américains – “We are all Americans”

        My thoughts were: headlines like that meant to be sarcasm. As the French, in my thinking, expected that after the attacks to be pushed around by the US, yes, like sheep. They wouldn’t have a choice in deciding what to do as the US would effectively take over the decision making process.

        And surely, ever since, the French have been led like sheep and criminal/genocidal foreign policy decisions have been made in Washington.

        18 years later. We saw what we saw. We know what we know, now, the least we expect from the French is to denounce those headlines made in haste and [made] under the pressure of considerable propaganda.

        It was an act of collective idiocy to claim We “We are all Americans”.

        SharonM
        SharonM

        “I always thought the French have weight in the intellect department.”
        Of course, the French have both bright people and stupid people, like every country. But one of the first people to write about a U.S. government orchestration of the 9/11 events was a French guy, Thierry Meyssan;)

        la Cariatide
        la Cariatide

        @theadministrator: if you publish that article which tells us to go to Heinz Pommer website, is that because you may agree with him about the way the 3 wtc were destroyed? you wouldn’t publish something telling the true-truth of 9/11, asymmetric nuclear attack, if you didn’t accept that as the real truth.

        i told you one year ago: https://off-guardian.org/2018/02/27/44920/

        you even had to temporarily close the comments on the thread because the maggots CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH.

        what did you expect? louis ‘quisling’ proyect denies the truth, as for Syria proxy war.

        Oliver
        Oliver

        The enemy has many weapons. The most powerful of all appear to be psychological.

          Robbobbobin
          Robbobbobin

          “@theadministrator: if you publish that article which tells us to go to Heinz Pommer website, is that because you may agree with him about the way the 3 wtc were destroyed?”

          It almost certainly would be if the Off-Guardian were the On-Guardian, but it’s not.

          Oliver
          Oliver

          Her Majesty’s Armed Forces, which include MI5/6, either believe the US government’s version of these events, or they don’t.

          Complicit, at the least.

            TFS
            TFS

            It’s not only the Official Account that needs to be cosidered. It’s also MSM outlets promoting something which can easily be debunked.

            Take the Smithsonian animation of the WTC1&2 collapse.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzInIjD6nKw

            Now look at a picture of WTC2 collapse which is availble from Google.
            comment image

            Do you see the problem?

            I would like the truth (Architects and Engineers) movement to go after this type of slight of hand.

            vexarb
            vexarb

            Brilliantly succinct account by Greg Bacon.

            (Which Greg Bacon would that be? the usual writer’s details are missing at the bottom of this excellent summary).

            Greg Bacon
            Greg Bacon

            That would be me, the retired firefighter Greg Bacon from the USA, who also posted a 9/11 article last year that OffG wsa kind enough to print. Didn’t post my resume this time, since doing it twice would seem like bragging.
            But I will post this: A few months after 9/11, I realized the official story was a combination of lies, distortions, psyops and more lies. On that day, I swore to spend the rest of my life outing these sadistic fiends.
            The 343 firefighters that were brutally murdered on that day, with USG help, deserve no less from a brother firefighter.

            vexarb
            vexarb

            “Ye [few] are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted?” — Matthew 5:13 (King James Version)

            Rhisiart Gwilym
            Rhisiart Gwilym

            Respect, Greg! Keep sluggin’, bro – on behalf of your murdered brothers and sisters of the emergency services, and of all the other victims of these appalling atrocities, including all the millions – sic! – of brown-skinned victims of The War Against Terror, which the 11/9 false-flag was *carefully designed* to start.

            (In Brit-English slang, ‘twat’ means two things: a vagina, and an utter, incorrigible idiot. Currently, the second usage is by far the more common. TWAT will be the death of the Anglozionst empire, because of the Olympic-grade twattery of its sponsors).

            Antonym
            Antonym

            IF 9/11 was a false flag a good number of people inside the US were involved. Four buildings, four planes, four locations over big distances , , over considerable time to plan all this etc.

            HOW did they communicate, as the NSA had no clue – see Edward Snowden’s eyewitness report of the chaotic evacuation of fort Meade. Not by phone / Internet.

            Pained Scientist
            Pained Scientist

            You mean you think we should dismiss the physical impossibility of the official conspiracy theory and the multiple lines of hard evidence all pointing to a controlled demolition with clear involvement of top ranking US officials – because an alleged whistleblower says the NSA didn’t know?

            I’m sure Snowden’s a great guy and his mom loves him to death but if we have to pick a winner between the universal laws of physics being turned off that day or Ed being simply wrong, I think there’s only one way to bet don’t you?

            Antonym
            Antonym

            You’ve got to be a climate scientist: there is only one way. Scientific consensus = nonsense.

            Abrahamic religions run on consensus.

            So how did “your” demolition crews planned and communicated? Many physical meetings and papers? How were the holograms of the airliners created?

            George Cornell
            George Cornell

            One way to elicit the kind of incredulity you exhibit would be to find conspirators planning such an attack. When you are loathed worldwide and have state of the art surveillance systems, this may not be difficult. Then just enable them to do what you would do yourself, but much less safely, and then catch them. And do whatever else that cover might provide.

            This is what “I’m just a patsy” Oswald was enabled to do? Perfect cover for the people who in Operation Northwoods wanted to bomb their own people in that infamous false flag enterprise that may have led to Kennedy’s murder.

            Antonym
            Antonym

            For JFK’s murder there was both motive and proof that CIA elements did it: not so for 9/11.
            It is not a binary world for humans where one has to believe no conspiracies at all OR all of the theories.

            George Cornell
            George Cornell

            Who said it was a binary world? But as in science it boils down to truth in the end, however tortuous.

            Deschutes
            Deschutes

            He’s fond of making crap up as he goes along, regardless of the post he’s replying to.

            George Mc
            George Mc

            Well Ant, we start off with the perfectly logical observation that, whatever happened on 9/11, it sure as hell isn’t what we were told. I won’t reiterate yet again that bit about defying the laws of physics – but if what we were told did happen, it would require belief in miracles that would dwarf the content of all Abrahamic religions put together.

            Deschutes
            Deschutes

            Lame straw man argument. You flopped homey.

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            They had a mass huddle under the Cone of Silence in the Chief’s office before hand so they would not have to communicate in the field when the operation was initiated.

            Control Agents never consort with Chaos Agents like Snowden anymore but if they need to communicate they just use their encrypted iPhone embedded in the soles of the shoes. At least that’s they way Control used to communicate back in the 60s but as I recall they used rotary phones instead.

            MOU

            Louis Proyect
            Louis Proyect

            Embarrassing.

            Pained Scientist
            Pained Scientist

            Don’t be so hard on yourself Louis Something. You try your best.

            Speaking of embarrassing, I along with others here, very much enjoyed your efforts of a few years ago to debunk Newtonian physics from the PoV of a liberal arts grad who had once worked in a tall building.

            Remind us again about that. Very amusing.

            Harry Stotle
            Harry Stotle

            18 years after the event and the best you can manage is an ad hominem – feeble Louis, very feeble.

            Anyway, here’s one for Mr Proyect or other neocon apologists on this thread.

            It’s a matter of public record that Cheney admits ordering Flight 93 to be shot down.

            Yet at Shanksville it was always maintained that the plane crashed into a field even though there was no debris or body parts recovered – just a ditch, albeit a ditch that looked suspiciously like a scene that had been manufactured, and, just like the twin towers, the fortuitous discovery of passports (allegedly belonging to the hijackers), as well as note containing the hijackers ‘plans’ (and, no, I am not making this up).
            Since there is no evidence any plane ever hit the ground at Shanksville this must mean pre-planning was required to create the impression that there had been a bona fida event, albeit the kind of impression that would only ever satisfy gullible 5 year olds or neocon apologists.

            And even though Cheney was able to go after F93 none of the defence systems surrounding the Pentagon were activated – its hard to be sure why, perhaps the staff were on a lunch break, or attending an organisational study day on how to murder fellow Americans.

            Like most 9/11 sneerers it soon becomes apparent Proyect is way out of his depth because resorting to ad hominems almost always betrays a lack of knowledge – on the other hand if Louis wants to make a defence for the sham investigations conducted by Bush and his apparatchiks, then be my guest.

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            Don’t forget the Koran that the CIA found in the strip club where Atta bragged about how famous he was going to be after the CIA made him a household name, eh. The passport found at the base of the WTC wreckage was serendipitous to be sure but felling WTC 1 & 2 at free fall velocity was just spectacular engineering from my standpoint watching it all on CNN from CANUCKISTAN.

            When mass murderer & pure unadulterated slime of the Earth George W. Bush stated that everyone in the Western world had a choice to either support him or ‘the terrorists’ I knew right away that I had a moral duty to join ‘the terrorists’ in terms of opposition punditry.

            I miss the good old days of coded warnings emanating out of George Tenant’s pie hole on CNN. That was great theater especially when the ‘anthrax’ threats were directed at opposition pundits. Politics is just great fun ain’t it.

            Oh happy day!

            MOU

            Rhisiart Gwilym
            Rhisiart Gwilym

            You are, Lou. But there’s no need to keep advertising it.

            Eric Blair
            Eric Blair

            I have no problem with people questioning the accuracy of official explanations for events like 9/11, the Kennedy assassination and Jeffery Epstein’s ‘suicide’, to name a few of the most obvious ones. Covert operations, including false flags, conspiracies undertaken to mindfuq the public and gratuitous lying are all things that governments, intelligence agencies and their partner organizations in law enforcement, tech, finance and other sectors do on a regular basis and anyone who thinks otherwise is incredibly naive or they haven’t been paying attention.

            What I do, however, have a problem with is people who become convinced to the point of obsession that their preferred, and invariably flawed and incomplete, explanation of events is a self-evident and unassailable truth that is on par with the laws of physics.

            This is simply delusional.

            The ambiguities, contradictions and inconsistencies revealed by sifting though media reports, think-tank policy papers, internal documents, video footage, eyewitnesses testimonies and other evidence relating to an event like 9/11 can be extremely useful in establishing the veracity, or lack thereof, of official explanations and suggest other possibilities. What it cannot do, is definitively determine ‘whodunit’ or deliver a smoking gun that leaves no doubt about what happened and who did it.

            Staying with 9/11 as an example, there are several competing ‘truths’ and their purveyors are all equally convinced that they have got it absolutely, 100% right. They even argue, often quite bitterly, amongst themselves over whose ‘truth’ is truer than the rest. Well, they can’t all be right can they.

            So maybe discovering truth with publicly accessible evidence is a lot more complicated than it might appear, impossible even, without falling victim to confirmation bias?

            Trying to discover ‘the truth’ behind every event and situation that seems suspicious is ultimately a fool’s errand. It is impossible to do and it plays into the hands of the establishment, which is thrilled when its potential rivals are caught up in wild goose chases and fighting amongst themselves. Keeping us, the people who can defeat them, disunited is something they work hard to achieve.

            The people who haunt forums like this one and vent bile at anyone who doesn’t buy their delusional ‘truth’, and then try to pressure the hold outs into “believing”, are toxic entities thoroughly enmeshed in their own confirmation biases and the echo chamber phenomenon so common in internet forums.

            They are lazy thinkers who do not understand logic and therefore cannot reliably determine truth from hypothesis and fact from opinion. This and their susceptibility to confirmation biases and penchant for religious style proselytizing makes them very useful to those wishing to uphold the status quo and detrimental to people and groups seeking to overcome it. Arguing with them is usually pointless so ignoring them is the best policy.

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            The Wolfowitz Doctrine did it along with the Council on Foreign Relations, and the supreme douchbags of human torture the ever popular Central Intelligence Agency and their subcontracting scum Mitchell & Jessen.

            Bloody Gina was there too, BuckO.

            MOU

            Pained Scientist
            Pained Scientist

            Arguing with them is usually pointless

            Ah. I guess that’s why you go for condescending dismissal instead.

            You know what I have a problem with? Pontificating intellectuals who wear their moral cowardice and refusal to engage as a mark of superiority.

            Greg Bacon is a retired firefighter who cares enough about his country to speak out.

            who or what are you exactly?

            John Thatcher
            John Thatcher

            You have misrepresented what “Eric Blair” is saying,he is not attacking the writer ,just people like you and the other sad individuals who have predictably given him the thumbs down.

            Robbobbobin
            Robbobbobin

            Pained Scientist

            What is it about Science that pains you so?

            The pain of doing it properly or the pain of the lifetime of uncertainty about the veracity of all that hard hypothesizing potentially disappearing like a desert mirage if even just one of its premises or predictions, just which depending on the problem to hand, went west?

            Ever tried a Zanussi? Try taking a couple of aspirin (the Science) and having a little lie down (the Grandma).

            ZigZag Wanderer
            ZigZag Wanderer

            “The people who haunt forums like this one”. ….. Forums are sites that discuss mountain biking , knitting , shed building projects etc.

            You’ve landed on a Media website . No fluffy kittens here.

            Try Bellingcat.

            Robbobbobin
            Robbobbobin

            ‘“The people who haunt forums like this one”. ….. Forums are sites that discuss mountain biking , knitting , shed building projects etc.’

            You’ve landed on a Media website .”‘

            Are you sure?

            Savorywill
            Savorywill

            So, Eric, you think that ‘lazy thinkers do not understand logic and cannot reliably determine truth from hypothesis and fact from opinion’, but you can? Why do you think so? What makes your opinions or analyses better than those presented here? You are not presenting any specific rebuttals but are just making sweeping assertions which don’t constitute any proof whatsoever.

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            Eric’s hubris was earned when he signed up for Information Operations with the CIA.
            Now his tradecraft is as ‘Eric Blair’ the man on the Clapham Omnibus that peddles his perceptions as ‘truth’ to be absorbed by the masses of serfs he intends on influencing one heart & mind at a time just like the CIA trained him.

            Eric was hired on a CIA make work project but he does get minimum wage now that he has passed basic training at Langley.

            MOU

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            Given the uninitiated illiterate greater fools that downvoted the ‘truth’ so eloquently expressed in my post I, for one, would like the downvoters to understand that ‘Eric Blair’ is actually George Orwell’s real life name. Historically, the dumb arse downvoters should also be aware of the fact that Eric Blair was employed as a propagandist by the United Kingdom all throughout the Second World War and even before that too.

            I actually like the real Eric Blair as he was a great writer, but the fake ‘Eric Blair’ on this forum is tasked to fellate Orange Jesus Cheeto-head-in-cheese so that dupes like the readership on most blogs think that the Orange One is not really deranged, incompetent, and certifiably insane.

            The CIA should have the intelligence to advise their operatives to utilize common names that are not immediate giveaways of famous authors with literary talents admired all over the world.

            Lastly, CIA trained Information Operations Analysts are by no means worldly people as they were educated by the American Public School System which we all know is financially challenged & intellectually challenged too.

            Poor Eric.

            MOU

            CAB
            CAB

            What if Trump meant what he says and is constricted by the confines of the US government ?
            What if he just isn’t finessed and slick ?
            After all, he didn’t actually set fire to Libya did he ?
            He didn’t send troops into NW Syria and pretend he didn’t.
            He isn’t the one who layed the path to hell. He isn’t adored by the media.
            Maybe it’s simpler than some may think.

            Everybody knows who Eric Blair is.

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            If the Government of the United States of America had any sense with regard to business at the international level they would completely change course on the world and become an honest arbiter in terms of the hegemonic macroeconomic system they would really like to govern honestly for ‘we the people’ across the world. America is not up to the task of rebuilding the global economic system from the ground up.

            The facts of contemporary life at this late nadir of macroeconomic incompetence that was ushered in by the Neoliberal Chicago School of Economics via Strauss et al. has in fact given us a crashed USD reserve currency that cannot be revived by pretending that the entire economic system has not indeed crashed.

            If the USA real power brokers had any sense of what to do at all they would not have an idiot like Trump in the Whore House.

            The United States of America needs to understand one thing real straight and that is that money has to be legitimate or the God damned International Monetary Fund and the World Bank are going to be forced to switch to a basket of currencies in order to fully ditch the United States of America right into the shitter of defunct world currencies to be forgotten immediately for an entirely reformed macroeconomic system & landscape.

            Past this my fee starts at $25,000.00 USD per day, ‘Merica.

            P.S. I’m the guy that stole Dr. Alan Greenspan’s mojo, motherfucker.

            MOU

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            What if Spock & Captain Kirk ran into the Klingons….?

            Let’s talk about more important stuff like old Star Trek episodes that don’t involve that mentally disturbed character you keep referencing at the beginning of every sentence.

            Why does that character get worked into discourse anymore?

            I will leave the online chat with you people if every thread turns to reference of that twat clown you have in office.

            I’ve had enough, man.

            MOU

            John Thatcher
            John Thatcher

            You win the prize for the most gratuitously insulting reply to the “Eric Blair post.The CIA operative here will be the one who does most to cause pointless discussion and so distract from any sober understanding.However,given the number of useful idiots posting here who will do the job for free,they probably haven’t bothered to do anything on this particular thread.

            MASTER OF UNIVE
            MASTER OF UNIVE

            Thanks for the accolades, JT. I always try to be magnanimous & generous too. My dead poet old mother taught me to hurl epithets like a longshoreman before I was in grade school back in Toronto in the 60s, man.

            If you grow up in Toronto you know how to fight & be gratuitously insulting whilst walking & chewing gum all at the same time.

            CANUCKS are ambidextrous.

            MOU

            John Thatcher
            John Thatcher

            Well try reading what he has said with an open mind. He explained why he thinks so,to my satisfaction anyway.Which one of the various explanations or “truths” do you think is the correct one,with your superior mind it should be easy.

            Loverat
            Loverat

            There are some interesting points in what you say. On one side there are people who correctly advance major holes in an official narrative, but then go on to develop further theories to prove what did happen. Inevitably different possible scenarios are suggested where as you say, all can’t be right. This then gives ammunition to state players who dismiss everything as ‘conspiracy theories’. Likewise they will pick up on a mistake identified in the hypothesis, as evidence to prove the whole official report is correct and should be questioned no further. I have seen this tactic used to close down further discussion on many events.

            I often wonder if people who are critical thinkers correctly questioning narratives ( which as history shows often gets debunked years later) should follow a position such as ‘ these are the major holes in the official line, please address these discrepancies’. The onus of proof is not on the doubter to identify the discrepancies plus solve the case in micro- detail like you see in an episode of Death in the Carribean, as state players would have you believe. Thats not how weighing up and onus of evidence works in this setting which they know full well.

            They try to have it both ways and say the doubter has to prove conclusively and precisely what happened. They complain when not surprisingly small immaterial parts of the subsequent advanced alternative theory is wrong.

            I think the requirement is for doubters to raise significant questions and in the first instance put these to those who push official narratives . The possible example I like is Piers Robinson and the Syrian working group because they set out their evidence carefully and qualify the points. They refer to key experts and engineering reports. They question and invite others to refute . In response their study of Douma has not been refuted, just met with abuse and smears – a sign their work is rigorous and hit the mark.

            For me personally I look at the most recent events, Syria, Libya and Iraq official narratives, some already debunked in the mainstream even – and those conflicts over the last 50 years. Then with 9/11, I would point to the major discrepancies, 3rd tower collapse, the timeline of historical false narratives and media failing and lack of motives by the alleged guilty party and then frame it as – ‘given all this, how on earth do you expect us to believe the official line you have just fed us?

            And as with the Syria working group keep plugging away, exposing the huge obvious flaws and diminishing credibility of governments, Intel, media, Bellingcat etc in the cover up of pure evil. Combined with the work of independent journalists in Syria, researchers and sites like this, this group have built a compelljng case. Perhaps that’s a model for discrediting official narratives in the future.

            Glasshopper
            Glasshopper

            The dodgy goings on in places like Syria are not really in contention. Our governments freely admit to pursuing regime change, and anyone with any critical faculties can see that they are being fed a lot of propaganda from the MSM.

            Also, there are many credible whistle blowers, and growing all the time.

            There are no 9/11 whistle blowers after 20 years.

            Rhisiart Gwilym
            Rhisiart Gwilym

            “There are no 9/11 whistleblowers after 20 years.” Er – yes there are. Quite a few, and all much sooner dissenting than 20 years. Try this to bring you up to speed:

            https://www.corbettreport.com/911whistleblowers/

            Glasshopper
            Glasshopper

            I watched it last week. No sign of whistle blowers there.

            I’m waiting for one of the hundreds of insiders such a plot would have to involve to spill the beans.

            We do know that there were conspiracies to train Jihadists, and that they are ongoing. Haven’t come across any meaningful whistle blowing though. Despite being a sceptic of the official story myself.

            George Mc
            George Mc

            Hi GlassH – it seems to me you are proposing a new approach to criminal investigation i.e. that no crime can ever be ascertained unless one of the criminals admits to it.

            Robbobbobin
            Robbobbobin

            “it seems to me you are proposing a new approach to criminal investigation i.e. that no crime can ever be ascertained unless one of the criminals admits to it.”

            Hello again George, I hope you are enjoying your upvotes. And that you have realized what a stupid, pseudo metric of SFA they are.

            But no, he is not suggesting that. However, I am suggesting that your handle on the (amongst other aspects) meaning of ‘whistleblower’ is sub-standard button pushy at best.

            Robbobbobin
            Robbobbobin

            …(amongst other aspects, legal) meaning)…

            George Mc
            George Mc

            Well Robbo, I never was one to make an issue over the “whistleblower” angle. I was simply responding to GHopper’s blasé insistence on having those strange creatures around before we can make any kind of assertion. This seemed to me to be a perfectly obvious case of a self-proclaimed “sceptic” stalling the issue.

            Also, I find your comments to be almost as enigmatic as a “down” vote. (Or possibly “up” vote? It’s hard to tell.)

            George Mc
            George Mc

            I don’t see any reason for this blasé assumption that 9/11 as inside-job would have involved “hundreds of insiders”. The whole of our modern society is based on division of labour. Vast numbers of people (actually everyone) is caught up in a productive network where they have no idea where their labour fits in to the overall scheme. And similarly they have no idea about the productive conditions behind the goods they buy. And that’s a matter that applies to regular goods and services. When it comes to secret plots and intelligence agencies, we can expect even greater obfuscation at all levels.

            Furthermore, you seem to be a very odd case of “a sceptic of the official story myself”. You are clearly rejecting the inside-job thesis. So what does YOUR scepticism actually amount to?

            John Thatcher
            John Thatcher

            Excellent response,it takes Eric Blair’s post and moves it on a bit.

            vexarb
            vexarb

            Eric, you are one of those “lazy thinkers” who think that because print is patient, you can waste a lot of words saying nothing more than, A plague on all your houses!.

            “A supposition so absurd that 15,000 scientists, including 52 Nobel Laureates and 63 recipients of the National Medal of Science disagreed.”

            fellatthelast
            fellatthelast

            How to say something without actually saying anything.

            Harry Stotle
            Harry Stotle

            ‘What I do, however, have a problem with is people who become convinced to the point of obsession that their preferred, and invariably flawed and incomplete, explanation of events is a self-evident and unassailable truth that is on par with the laws of physics.’ – silly strawman, Eric – you are better than that.

            Nobody claims a truth that is ‘on par with the laws of physics’ – most of us are simply saying the official version of 9/11 was a lie, and transparently so to all but the dimmest, or most blinkered minds, and that we would finally like this crime to properly investigated (and by a body not fatally compromised by those appointing them).

            Of course a proper investigation is unlikely while certain individuals have so much to hide and while the MSM pretend not to notice gaping holes in the 2 plane 3 building conspiracy theory.

            Rhys Jaggar
            Rhys Jaggar

            The majority of the media were probably like the 19 patsies without Islam thrown in. Loads at college will have drunk copious amounts of alcohol, many will have snorted cocaine and if they didn’t live with pink haired strippers, they probably did have girlfriends who would get seriously down and dirty for free…

            How many journalists do you know who are both intellectually capable and morally principled?

            Julian Assange is one and he is in jail.John Pilger is another and MSM would not touch him with a barge pole.

            You get a job in MSM by being a moral vacuum with writing skills.

            The MSM is the last place on earth to expect false flag events to be investigated.

            John Thatcher
            John Thatcher

            I think that is what Eric was saying,unless I completely miss read his post.

            lundiel
            lundiel

            They are lazy thinkers who do not understand logic and therefore cannot reliably determine truth from hypothesis and fact from opinion. This and their susceptibility to confirmation biases and penchant for religious style proselytizing makes them very useful to those wishing to uphold the status quo and detrimental to people and groups seeking to overcome it. Arguing with them is usually pointless so ignoring them is the best policy.

            Neatly packaged there Eric. A good lesson in how to do a large scale ad hominem…..you could have just called them thick liars and quasi-religious nutters.

            Glasshopper
            Glasshopper

            Small numbers of people could have been involved in Kennedy and Epstein, but 9/11 is another ball game and would involve hundreds of people.

            Where are the whistleblowers? (Yes, I’ve seen the Corbett film)

            I mean people who were actually involved and have decided to spill the beans. There are none.

            Great post Eric.

            Refraktor
            Refraktor

            Anyone involved 911 would have good reason to keep quiet. If the MSM exposed the truth its own complicity would be revealed. However the judicious application of electrodes to Larry Silverstein’s anatomy would reap dividends.

            nomad
            nomad

            I agree. There would have to be hundreds. Over a thirty year period as per Bob Kerry. In addition to the planners who arranged for air defense to be disabled, the command staff that went along with it, the pilots who actually flew the planes, probably by remote control, demolition experts and installers, the people who financed the operation and those who profited from it, the people who rushed to remove the debris evidence and provide the coverup, just off the top of my head. Got to be hundreds. I was disappointed that Corbett’s “whistleblowers” included none of those who participated in committing the crime.

            John Thatcher
            John Thatcher

            Very well said George,and I am afraid the 23 down votes (as I type) are sadly all too predictable in the comments here.Only a fool,or someone paid to,would believe the official account,but as you rightly point out,it is impossible with the evidence to hand to know the truth,I have my own ideas but I keep them to myself.It is my opinion that many of those obsessives you refer to are much more interested in the process that arriving at the truth.The truth being that we will not know for many years, if ever, who was responsible.

            George Mc
            George Mc

            What a pontificating mini-echo chamber of straw men you present. I haven’t seen any “fanatically convinced” ranting from 9/11 sceptic comments in this site – or on most others. Most of the sceptical researchers I have read have been quite willing to revise their ideas when new info arrives.