American Conspiracies & Cover-ups
JFK, 9/11, the Fed, rigged elections, suppressed cancer cures and the greatest conspiracies of our time
Douglas Cirignano
In today’s world, the phrase “conspiracy theory” is pejorative and has a negative connotation. To many people, a conspiracy theory is an irrational, over-imaginative idea endorsed by people looking for attention and not supported by the mainstream media or government.
History shows, though, that there have been many times when governments or individuals have participated in conspiracies. It would be naïve to think that intelligence agencies, militaries, government officials, and politicians don’t sometimes cooperate in covert, secretive ways. Following are five instances when it’s been proven that the government engaged in a conspiracy.
THE GULF OF TONKIN RESOLUTION
On August 4, 1964, Captain John J. Herrick, the commander of the USS Maddox, a US Navy vessel that was on an intelligence-gathering mission in the Gulf of Tonkin, reported to the White House and Pentagon that North Vietnamese patrol boats had fired torpedoes at his ship, and, so, the Maddox had fired back.
Two days later, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara testified to the Congress that he was certain that the Maddox had been attacked. On August 7, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was passed, the Congressional act that allowed President Johnson free reign to commence war; Johnson immediately ordered air strikes on North Vietnam and the Vietnam War—which would eventually kill fifty-eight thousand Americans and two million Asians—was underway.
Since then, it has been shown and proven that no North Vietnamese boats ever fired on the Maddox, and that McNamara had been untruthful when he testified before Congress. According to the official publication of the Naval Institute,
…once-classified documents and tapes released in the past several years, combined with previously uncovered facts, make clear that high government officials distorted facts and deceived the American public about events that led to full US involvement in the Vietnam War.”
In the weeks prior to the Gulf of Tonkin incident, South Vietnamese ships had been attacking posts in North Vietnam in conjunction with the CIA’s Operation 34A. According to many inside sources, the Johnson administration wanted a full-scale war in Vietnam and through Operation 34A was trying to provoke North Vietnam into an attack that would give Johnson an excuse to go to war. But when McNamara was asked by the Congress on August 7 if these South Vietnam attacks had anything to do with the US military and CIA, McNamara lied and said no.
Within hours after reporting that the Maddox had been attacked, Captain Herrick was retracting his statements and reporting to the White House and Pentagon that “in all likelihood” an over-eager sonar man had been mistaken and that the sonar sounds and images that he originally thought were enemy torpedoes were actually just the beat of the Maddox’s own propellers.
Herrick reported that there was a good probability that there had been no attack on the Maddox, and suggested “complete reevaluation before any action is taken.”
McNamara saw these new, updated reports and discussed them with President Johnson early in the afternoon of August 4. Even though this was so, on the evening of August 4, President Johnson went on national television and announced to the American public that North Vietnam had engaged in “unprovoked aggression” and, so, the US military was retaliating.
A few days after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, Johnson remarked, “Hell, those damn stupid sailors were just shooting at flying fish.”
Recently, new documents related to the Gulf of Tonkin incident have been declassified and according to Robert Hanyok, a historian for the National Security Agency, these documents show that the NSA deliberately “distorted intelligence” andand “altered documents” to make it appear that an attack had occurred on August 4.
When President Lyndon Johnson misrepresented to the American public and said he knew that North Vietnam had attacked a US ship, and when Defense Secretary Robert McNamara lied to the Congress and said he was sure that the Maddox had been attacked and that the CIA had nothing to do with South Vietnam aggression, and when NSA officials falsified information to make it appear that there had been an attack on the Maddox, that was a government conspiracy.
OPERATION NORTHWOODS
In 1962, the most powerful and highest ranking military officials of the US government, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, felt strongly that the communist leader Fidel Castro had to be removed from power and, so, came up with a plan to justify an American invasion of Cuba.
The plan, entitled Operations Northwoods, was presented to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, and was signed by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Lyman L. Lemnitzer.
Operations Northwoods was a proposal for a false flag operation, a plan in which a military organizes an attack against its own country and then frames and blames the attack on another country for the purpose of the purpose of initiating hostilities and declaring war on that country.
The proposal was originally labeled Top Secret but was made public on November 18, 1997, by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board. The complete Operation Northwoods paper was published online by the National Security Archive on April 30, 2001, and this once-secret government document can now be read by anyone.
The actions that General Lemnitzer and the other chiefs wanted to d to take under Operations Northwoods are shocking. According to the plan, CIA and military personnel and hired provocateurs would commit various violent acts and these acts would be blamed on Castro to “create the necessary impression of Cuban rashness and irresponsibility” and “put the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances.”
One of the most ambitious plans of Operation Northwoods was to blow up a plane in midflight. The strategy was to fill a civilian airplane with CIA and military personnel who were registered under fake ID’s; an exact duplicate plane—an empty military drone aircraft—would take off at the same exact time.
The plane of fake passengers would land at a military base but the empty drone plane would fly over Cuba and crash in the ocean, supposedly a victim of Cuban missiles. “Casualty lists in US newspapers” and conducting “fake funerals for mock-victims” would cause “a helpful wave of national indignation” in America.
The Operation Northwoods proposal also states: “We could blow up a US ship and blame Cuba.” Whether the ship was to be empty or full of US soldiers is unclear. The document also says: “Hijacking attempts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged.”
Some of the recommendations of Operation Northwoods would have surely led to serious injuries and even deaths of Cuban and American civilians. The plan suggests:
We could sink a boatload of Cubans on route to Florida (real or simulated).”
And:
We could foster attempts on lives of anti-Castro Cubans in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized…We could explode a few bombs in carefully chosen spots.”
Lemnitzer and the chiefs wanted many of these staged terrorist attacks to be directed at the Guantanamo Bay United States Naval Base in Cuba. The plans were:
- “Start riots near the entrance to the base”
- “lob mortar shells from outside the base to inside the base”
- “blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires”
- “burn aircraft on airbase (sabotage)”
- “sabotage ship in harbor; large fires—napalm.”
When Secretary of Defense McNamara was presented with the Operation Northwoods plan, he either stopped and rejected the plan himself or passed it on to President Kennedy and JFK then rejected it. But if Kennedy and McNamara had agreed with the plan, then the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to begin enacting Operation Northwoods “right away, within a few months.”
Even though Operation Northwoods was never initiated, when the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the other highest-ranking military officials of the United States Government planned to organize violent attacks on Americans and anti-Castro Cuban citizens, knowing those attacks could severely injure and kill those citizens, and when they planned to blame those attacks on Cuba and then use that as an excuse to invade Cuba, that was a government conspiracy.
FBI AND THE MAFIA
In March 1965, the FBI had the house of New England organized crime boss Raymond Patriarca wiretapped and overheard two mobsters, Joseph Barboza and Vincent Flemmi, asking Patriarca for permission to kill another gangster, Edward Deegan. Two days later, Deegan’s blood-soaked body was found dead in a Boston alley.
Within days, an official FBI report confirmed that Joseph Barboza and three other mobsters were the murderers. Instead of those men going to prison for murder, though, three years later a man named Joseph Salvati was brought to trial for the murder of Edward Deegan. At that trial Joseph Barboza testified and lied that Salvati was one of the murderers. On the basis of Barboza’s testimony, Joseph Salvati was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison.
At that time, in the mid 1960s, the FBI was being pressured more and more to do something to stop organized crime. The bureau began using members of the mafia—criminals and murderers—to inform against fellow mafia members. Joseph Barboza was one of these FBI-protected, paid informants. The FBI didn’t want Barboza to go to prison for the murder of Deegan because they wanted him to continue infiltrating the mafia and testifying against other mafia members.
The bureau, apparently, did want a conviction in the Deegan murder case, though, and, so, let Barboza lie under oath and let a man they knew to be innocent, Joseph Salvati, go to prison.
The Witness Protection Program was first created for Joseph Barboza, and Barboza was the first mafia informant to be protected under the program. After helping to convict a number of mobsters, Barboza was sent off to live in California. While under the Witness Protection Program, Barboza committed at least one more murder, and probably more.
On trial for a murder in California, FBI officials showed up for Joseph Barboza’s trial and testified on his behalf, helping Barboza to get a light sentence.
Joseph Salvati ended up serving thirty years in prison for a murder that he was innocent of. During that thirty-year period, lawyers for Salvati requested documents from the FBI that would have proved Salvati’s innocence, but the bureau refused to release them.
Finally, in 1997, other evidence came forth suggesting Salvati’s innocence and the governor of Massachusetts, William Weld, granted Salvati’s release. A few years later, the FBI was ordered to release all its reports on the case; hundreds of documents showed the FBI knew that Barboza was a murderer, that he had murdered Edward Deegan, and that Joseph Salvati had had nothing to do with the crime.
Salvati was exonerated in a court of law, and was eventually awarded millions of dollars in a civil lawsuit against the government. (Three other defendants were also exonerated. At the 1968 trial, Joseph Barboza had testified that three other men—men who were also not guilty—had participated in Deegan’s murder. These three innocent men were, with Salvati, also sent to prison.)
Perhaps the most shocking thing that the FBI documents showed, though, was that FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover himself knew Salvati was innocent and that Barboza had killed Deegan.
Hoover was working closely, almost daily, with the agents handling Joseph Barboza, and it was probably Hoover directing the operation. The congressional committee that investigated the case was the House Committee on Government Reform and Congressman Dan Burton was the chairman.
When asked by CBS’s 60 Minutes journalist Mike Wallace “Did J. Edgar Hoover know all this?” Burton replied:
“Yes . . . It’s one of the greatest failures in the history of American justice…J. Edgar Hoover knew Salvati was innocent. He knew it and his name should not be emblazoned on the FBI headquarters. We should change the name of that building.”
Congressman Burton claimed there was evidence that there were more cases when the FBI did the same sorts of things they did in the Joseph Salvati case; when Burton and his committee requested the files on these cases, the Attorney General and the White House refused to release them.
When FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and top FBI officials let a known murderer lie and perjure himself in a courtroom, when they let four men they knew to be innocent suffer in the hell of a prison cell for thirty years, and when they deliberately covered that up for decades, that was a government conspiracy.
THE MANHATTAN PROJECT
In 1939, Albert Einstein and two other European physicists sent a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt informing Roosevelt that the German government was working on developing the science that could lead to the creation of a nuclear bomb. FDR immediately formed a committee to look into the idea of the US government making an atomic bomb.
In 1942, the Manhattan Project, the United States program to build a nuclear bomb, headed by General Leslie R. Groves of the US Army Corps of Engineers, was formed.
The program existed from 1942–1946, spent two billion dollars, had plants and factories in thirty cities, and employed 130,000 workers. But virtually no one knew about it. The Manhattan Project is considered the “Greatest Secret Ever Kept.”
The US government wanted to keep the Project a secret lest Germany or one of America’s other enemies found out about it and built—more quickly—a larger, better bomb. In the early 1940s, when American scientists began working on splitting atoms and nuclear fission, US government officials asked the scientists to not publish any reports on the work in scientific journals. The work was kept quiet.
In 1943, when newspapers began reporting on the large Manhattan Project construction going on in a few states, the newly formed United States Government Office of Censorship asked newspapers and broadcasters to avoid discussing “atom smashing, atomic energy, atomic fission . . . the use for military purposes of radium or radioactive materials” or anything else that could expose the project. The press kept mum. The government didn’t talk about the Manhattan Project, the press didn’t report on it, and the public knew nothing about it.
Not even the 130,000 Manhattan Project laborers knew they were building an atom bomb.
In 1945, a Life magazine article wrote that before Japan was attacked with a-bombs, “probably no more than a few dozen men in the entire country knew the full meaning of the Manhattan Project, and perhaps only a thousand others even were aware that work on atoms was involved.”
The workers were told they were doing an important job for the government, but weren’t told what the job was, and didn’t understand the full import of the mysterious, daily tasks they were doing. The laborers were warned that disclosing the Project’s secrets was punishable by ten years in prison, and a hefty financial fine.
Whole towns and cities were built where thousands of Manhattan Project workers lived and worked but these thousands didn’t know they were helping to build nuclear bombs.
The Manhattan Project finally became known to the public on August 6, 1945, when President Harry Truman announced that America had dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima, Japan.
Truman, himself, had not been informed of the Manhattan Project until late April 1945.
When the government kept the purpose of the Manhattan Project a secret from the press, from the public, from America’s enemies, from Harry Truman, and even from the 130,000 laborers who worked for the Manhattan Project, that was a government conspiracy.
THE CHURCH COMMITTEE INVESTIGATION
In the early 1970s, after the Watergate affair and investigative reports by the New York Times, it became apparent that the CIA and other US intelligence agencies might be engaging in inappropriate and illegal activities. In 1975, the Church Committee, named after the Committee’s chairman Senator Frank Church, was formed to investigate abuses by the CIA, NSA, FBI, and IRS.
The Church Committee reports are said to constitute the most extensive investigations of intelligence activities ever made available to the public. Many disturbing facts were revealed. According to the final report of the Committee, US intelligence agencies had been engaging in “unlawful or improper conduct” and “intelligence excesses, at home and abroad” since the administration of President Franklin Roosevelt.
The report added that “intelligence agencies have undermined the Constitutional rights of citizens” and “checks and balances designed by the framers of the Constitution to assure accountability have not been applied.”
One of the most well-known revelations of the Committee was the CIA’s so-called “Family Jewels,” a report that detailed the CIA’s misdeeds dating back to Dwight Eisenhower’s presidency. The committee also reported on the NSA’s SHAMROCK and MINARET programs; under these programs the NSA had been intercepting, opening, and reading the telegrams and mail of thousands of private citizens.
The Church Committee also discovered and exposed the FBI’s COINTELPRO program, the bureau’s program to covertly destroy and disrupt any groups or individuals that J. Edgar Hoover felt were bad for America. Some of the movements and groups that the FBI tried to discredit and destroy were the Civil Rights movement, the anti-Vietnam War movement, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and individuals such as Martin Luther King Jr.
The most alarming thing that the Church Committee found, though, was that the CIA had an assassination program. It was revealed that the CIA assassinated or had tried to assassinate Dinh Diem of Vietnam, Raphael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic, General Rene Schneider of Chile, Fidel Castro, Patrice Lumumba of the Congo, and other political leaders throughout the world.
The Committee learned about the different ways the CIA had developed to kill and assassinate people: inflicting cancer, inflicting heart attacks, making murders look like suicides, car accidents, boating accidents, and shootings. At one point, CIA Director William Colby presented to the Committee a special “heart attack gun” that the CIA had created. The gun was able to shoot a small poison-laden dart into its victim. The dart was so small as to be undetectable; the victim’s death from the poison would appear to be a heart attack, so no foul play would be suspected.
In response to the Church Committee report, in 1976 President Gerald Ford signed Executive Order 11,905, which forbade employees of the US government from engaging in or conspiring to engage in political assassinations.
In that same year, the Senate approved Senate Resolution 400, which established the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the committee responsible for providing vigilant oversight over the intelligence agencies.
Many former CIA employee-whistleblowers and other people, though, claim that US intelligence agencies are still acting in improper ways. In 2008, it was revealed that the CIA had hired Blackwater, a private company made up of ex-Navy Seals, to track down and assassinate suspected terrorists.
Later in the 2000s, when the Congress formed a committee to investigate if CIA waterboarding and other methods of interrogation constituted torture, congressmen complained that they couldn’t get to the bottom of the matter because CIA officials and the CIA director were lying to the congressional committee.
Forty-five years after the revelations of the Church Committee, it seems US intelligence agencies are still engaging in covert and improper conduct.
When US intelligence agencies and the CIA plot to influence the affairs of foreign nations, when the CIA plots assassinations and assassinates foreign leaders and political dissidents, when the CIA develops new ways to kill and assassinate and interrogate and torture, and when the CIA keeps all that from Congress, the press, and the public, that’s a government conspiracy.
*
If these five instances of government engaging in conspiracies have been proven to be true—and they have been—isn’t it logical to assume that government agencies may have engaged in other conspiracies? It is the very nature of intelligence agencies and militaries to act in secretive, conspiratorial ways.
The phrase “conspiracy theory” shouldn’t have a negative connotation. Politics always plays out with backroom handshakes. It is the suggestion of American Conspiracies and Cover-Ups that government agencies and officials and the special interests that influence them are often engaging in conspiratorial actions, and that conspiracies have been behind some of the most iconic and important events of American history.
A conspiracy theorist was regaling a friend with one conspiracy theory after another. Finally, the friend interrupted and said, “I bet I know what would happen if God Himself appeared out of the sky right now, looked down at us, and said, ‘There is no conspiracy.’ I bet you would look up and say, ‘So the conspiracy goes higher than we thought.’”
Perhaps if the Almighty appeared to inform us that politicians and governments and government officials don’t act in secretive, covert, conspiratorial ways, then we could accept that.
But when the evidence indicates otherwise….
Theories questioning if multiple people might have shot at JFK, or if interior bombs brought down the World Trade Center, or if somebody was able to rig the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections can make for dramatic, sensational storytelling.
But it is not the purpose of American Conspiracies and Cover-Ups to be sensational; the purpose of this book is to talk about “conspiracy realities” that can hopefully give us a deeper and more meaningful understanding of politics.
If elements in the intelligence agencies participated in assassinating President Kennedy, then how can the intelligence agencies be better controlled? If elements in the government allowed or caused 9/11 to happen to give us an excuse to go to war in the Middle East, then how much of the War on Terror is disinformation and propaganda?
If presidential elections can be rigged, then how can we have fairer, uncorrupted elections? If secretive influences behind the scenes, a Deep State, are controlling our social, political, and financial systems for their own selfish purposes, then it would benefit us to expose who and what these secretive influences are.
American Conspiracies and Cover-Ups may give us a glimpse into the way that government and politics work.
Or don’t work.
This is an extract from American Conspiracies and Cover-Ups, by Douglas Cirignano published by Simon&Schuster. It can be purchased in hard copy, digital and audio-book form through Amazon and other booksellers.
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A lot of the cowboy antics of the Deep State can be accounted for by pure self interest and careerism. These parasitic bottom feeding spooks and snoops and dirty cops are quite content sucking on the taxpayer teat for ever. $1,134 billion for the current military budget. $85 billion for the Black Budget. $100 billion for “Intelligence.” Nearly $1 trillion for “Homeland Security” since the 9/11 hoax. Do anything that threatens to spoil their party and they react like a dog when its bone is taken away. A comfy air conditioned job for life in a Washington office with zero accountability, no matter how badly you screw up, no matter how much money you waste and steal, no matter how many serious crimes you commit. A licence to “lie, cheat and steal.” Followed by a gig as “resident scholar” on some Neocohen think tank, a lobbyist, or a talking head… Read more »
It is revelatory how the DS minions work here btl.
You are seen like rabbits in the lights you are.
Yoyoyo, that’s why they have names like ‘Crispy’, before we burn them to a crisp: and they just can’t believe what they are seeing & reading: left dumbfounded & speechless, every darn time 🙂 LouisP. needs back up from NormP. , coz’ LouisP. has lost the plot & will to contest anything constructively & factually, simply because the DS suckers are ALL out of Ammo. It’s great fun when all yer’ ducks are in a row and all you have to do is pull the trigger. 😉 On a more constructive & positive note, regarding Assange & Flynn, i thought the X22 Report was not bad yesterday: at least he sees how the Deep State specifically operating within GCHQ & the CIA, desperately need Julian Assange entirely ‘unavailable’ for comment. Now, all we have to do is re-educate Legally, the minds of the masses, who got wholly suckered by the… Read more »
I posted comment on this on the other DS article
https://www.oscr.org.uk/media/3771/2019-10-31-statecraft-s33-report-pdf.pdf
IoS / II busted as not charities.
Another of interest regarding JE And the MSM sitting on information
https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1191716801178034180
Great link, Thinker, that exemplifies how the news was/is so staged & censored by the rich & powerful who still feel themselves to be untouchable. People like Amy Robach will not lie in court, subsequently …
Moreover, Communications & Media Law has long been so outdated, that radical change in ownership & editorial accountability is now demanded.
Sitting on info. is just the tip of the iceberg, as we know, moreover, failure to report by omission with conjecture, supposition, suggestion, ‘appears to be allegedly’ totally beyond the pale, with masses of evidence of same and there is no further need for any uncorrupted judge to allow people in positions of responsibility to get away with playing with words… and societal perceptions.
Hang ’em High, out to dry >>> Brainwash is DANGEROUS !
And in futures far brighter, prison sentences become mandatory.
‘ the purpose of this book is to talk about “conspiracy realities” that can hopefully give us a deeper and more meaningful understanding of politics.’
Frankly, I don’t want “a deeper and more meaningful understanding of politics”.
I want the criminal conspiracy realities to stop and for those guilty of carrying them out to be brought to justice.
The only way to stop such conspiracies is to identify the problem, that real conspiracies exist. For a long time, at least since JFK’s assassination, conspiracies have been poked fun at by the powers that be to hopefully cause the public to think they’re absurd. However, much of the public distrusts the government and are more than ready to assume they are guilty of some part in the incident.
Any time two or more people get together to commit a fraud on the people, a conspiracy exists.
“Encouraged?
Tha’s lovely! and more lovely, this “Operations Northwoods” was planned by highest ranking military officials of the US government.
I recently re-read a biography called “A Man Called Intrepid” about the life and work of a relatively low key Canadian, William Stephenson. This fellow pretty much wrote the book on the use of intelligence and dirty tricks in warfare. He worked closely with Churchill and Roosevelt, acting as a private go-between back before the US was involved in WW2 (and was heavily non-interventionist). He organized a huge black operation, an operation that was initially based in New York. The book is worth reading because once read it takes little interpolation to get from where they were in the 1940s to where we are today. Stephenson didn’t invent dirty tricks, of course, but he understood their value and the role of propaganda. His role is very much like Edison’s in invention — Thomas Edison didn’t so much invent machines as invent industrial scale research and development, he industrialized the process… Read more »
Japan Mil. Inc. was pretty early in the false flag incident business: 1931 with their Mukden incident; their start of their invasion of Manchuria, as North Eastern China was called than (wonder why?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident
They didn’t even damage their own railway track: more like the real deal compared to 9/11.
So 9/11 is still too recent to call out as an inside conspiracy, is it? Only 18 years old so it can’t be called out. So much less taboo to call it out though (except, of course, for the massively obstructive-to-truth-and-so-very-conveniently-relied-on taboos around death) when we recognise that 9/11 was essentially a massive Full-Scale Exercise involving a large number of drills pushed out as a real event where the only major reality of the day was the destruction of and damage to buildings. That’s it, folks! A massive Full-Scale Exercise pushed out as real – similar in type but generally much greater in size to many other staged events including Pearl Harbour, 1980 Bologna station bombing, 2002 Bali bombing (got it virtually from the horse’s mouth – a Balinese man I met recently whose father worked next door who said when called to help the injured there were none to… Read more »
Just to add – I cannot help being mystified by why truthers are so attached to the idea that 3,000 people died on 9/11, notwithstanding the taboos around death. Sure, it took me 4 years of study to work it out even though I came across Simon Shack’s work probably 2-3 years in (and also knew that other events were completely staged) but when I could see how the propaganda campaign was pitched at truthers to make us believe in death and injury to hamstring us into not being able to get the truth out because non-truthers, most correctly, would never accept that the US government would kill all those people in the buildings, my attachment to “3,000 deaths” was broken in an instant. In fact, I don’t think I was ever really attached to the idea, I only believed it because of the propaganda. The perps knew, of course,… Read more »
Warning! Deep State sponsored nutjob presents the official nutjob version of the event.
Boot Hill, what we could classify your argument as – if we could call it that – falls into the logical fallacy, argument from incredulity. Because, at first sight, what I say seems preposterous you write it off as actually being preposterous. But it is only preposterous at first sight. When you look at the case I make for my argument it is perfectly sound. Argument from incredulity also applies to Rhisiart’s form of argument but I won’t persecute him with any more replies as he’s indicated he doesn’t want them. One thing for readers of OffG to bear in mind is that while it may seem I’m a lone nutjob in some of my views I’m certainly not the only person to say the AE9/11Truth is controlled opposition and Bob McIlvaine is an actor. Other people on other sites also say it (as well as calling out many other… Read more »
Have you considered seeing a shrink, Petra? I dare say Bob McIlvaine, for example, could recommend one, if you approached him personally. Find someone who specialises in web-surfing-triggered delusions. Lot of it about lately.
When “disinformation agent” who pretends to be a loved one is outside your paradigm of how the world works then I understand your thinking I’m crazy, Rhisiart. The best solution to this situation is for you to extend your knowledge of how the power elite operate and what techniques they employ. Obviously, I cannot unknow what I know to delude myself that Bob McIlvaine must be genuine because he presents himself that way. It’s really up to you to up the sophistication of your knowledge – there’s about 8,000 of them and 7 billion of us – they’ve got a few tricks up their sleeve. No one has responded to my $5,000 Occam’s Razor challenge to provide 10 points that favour “real” death and injury on 9/11 over “staged” while I have provided 10 points that favour “staged”. Perhaps if you’d really like to prove how wrong I am you… Read more »
P, I’m already confident that pretend-grievers are real. The ‘Robbie Parker’ incident was a dead giveaway. As a retired act0r, I’m a veteran when it comes to the signs of ‘An Actor Prepares’, and whoever was playing ‘Robbie’ was certainly behaving like an actor in the wings waiting for his cue to go on. Didn’t realise that he was already being filmed, clearly. Quite unmistakable whispering-cheerily-in-the-wings behaviour. So, you see, I do agree that crisis-actors, including bereavement-actors are real. I’m quite at ease with that *fact*. Even without hard evidence of their existence, familiarity with the moral nadir to which the Angl0zionist empire has come by now would make me hypothesise their existence anyway. But as a long-time supporter of AE9/11Truth (I’m an amateur engineer as well as professional actor), I see the great cloud of signs that there were indeed multiple casualties from the 11/9 atrocities. Their surviving loved-ones… Read more »
I can add to your knowledge a little here, Rhisiart, and this may help you understand that Bob McIlvaine is indeed an actor – he just does a much better job than Robbie Parker. The difference in their convincingness is not an accident, it’s quite intentional. They always give us the signs, known as “revelation of the method” – when I learnt this then I understood Robbie Parker. His big smile, the histrionic breathing, the 17-minute press conference where twice he mentioned a fundraising site already set up (this was just the day after) were all completely intentional – nothing accidental about it just as so many things obviously wrong with Sandy Hook were intentional (also in 9/11 such as the nose cone of the second plane popping out the other side of the South tower). In the case of Bob McIlvaine he’s different from all the other crisis actors… Read more »
Use the blockquote (b-quote) function when quoting please! Your posts are virtually indecipherable if you don’t
Just to add – I take exception to “well-developed idee fixe”. I’m not a person of fixed ideas – what I’m always doing is asking the questions: — Does ALL the evidence fit my hypothesis and none contradict it? — Is there any other hypothesis that might fit the evidence? It took me quite awhile to accept Simon Shack’s hypothesis that death was staged because all the seeming evidence didn’t fit his hypothesis. Finally, I realised that what I thought was evidence, eg, Bob McIlvaine, the Jersey Widows and a number of other things was not, in fact, evidence at all but fakery that formed part of the truther-targeted propaganda campaign to keep the idea firmly planted in our minds that death and injury were real in order to hamstring us in getting out the truth because non-truthers, most correctly on their part, would simply not accept the notion that… Read more »
Whatever, P. I told you, I’m not getting sucked into this.
PS: Thanks for one actual laugh-out-loud: AE is gov. sponsored! Sic! Priceless!
Really P: think about a shrink.
And now: goodbye to this topic – from me, anyway.
Rhisiart, do you think I just pluck these ideas from thin air? It took me a long time to come to the realisation that AE was government sponsored – quite a long time after I had initial doubts. What you have to do is look at the reasoning and evidence I provide for it. And when I say that it’s government-sponsored I don’t mean necessarily that all members are in on it – not at all. I think there are probably lots of genuine members – they like to mix it up. The reasoning is simple: They have us all focused on controlled demolition and mix that truth with the lie of 3,000 dead/6,000 injured which in turn stagnates the truth because non-truthers, perfectly correctly, will not accept that the US government killed all those people in the buildings. Seriously, Rhisiart, do you not get how utterly insane that would… Read more »
Just to add, Rhisiart, while you accuse me of craziness and needing a shrink what you don’t have in the slightest is a case for real death and injury. The convincing appearance of Bob McIlvaine as a genuine loved one (even if we forget about the doctored photos) doesn’t make a case for real, does it? He could be an actor and shed tears regardless of the contrast with Robbie Parker. Bob McIlvaine is not a case for real death and injury. Don’t you want to feel you have a case for it rather than simply an isolated piece of alleged evidence that on its own could go either way. Where is your case? I have a presented a case that includes: — Anomalies in the Social Security Death Index and in the memorial discrepancies — Issues with evidence for 3 of the alleged dead people provided by another analyst… Read more »
P, I’m really not getting sucked into your obsession. Look at all the chop-logic stuff you churn out about it with a colder eye. And see a shrink! You’re not ‘crazy’, but – it seems to me – you are nurturing a delusion that needs assistance to get resolved. Off-G keep reminding me by email when you post yet another screed trying to suck me in. Any more that come will be deleted unread, sorry. No discourtesy intended, but I’m really not going to take part in your delusions. (I sound like a lamestream mediawhore such as Jon Snow or Kath Viner, fending off a persistent citz-journalist who’s asking awkward questions, don’t I? 🙂 You can reassure yourself that I’m just the same kind of headinthesander as them, if it’s a comfort. But you’ll have to face the shrink option eventually, if you want to get straightened out.) This is… Read more »
That’s your prerogative, of course, Rhisiart, but you provide no refutative argument, simply a constant repetition of assertions that I’m delusional, need a shrink, etc. I simply don’t understand how you believe that making assertions and not actually dealing with my actual content has any value.
As controlled opposition, Petra/ Flaxgirl, you really should be dealing with my accusations and FACTUAL Content, discussing Bill Binney and “PARALLEL PLATFORMS” !!!
I simply don’t understand how you believe that making assertions and not actually dealing with my (F) actual content has any value. ! ? Petra, when will you respond, finally ?
Must try harder 😉
YOU PETRA / FLAXGIRL have still never responded to my question of whether you understand finally what a “Parallel Platform” is ? Why is this ? Bill Binney has told you very clearly about the existence of same and FFS Flaxgirl, are you not even the slightest bit interested in where all the missing D.o.D $$$TRILLIONS$$$ of Bucks disappeared down the rabbit hole / worm hole >>> Gawd n’ Bennet, Flaxgirl, we start our constructive take down of the deep state and D.o.D Fascists with Corporate Governors, in Law & the Science of same, first with the impossible State Declarations from NIST on WTC 7.
Get your fucking ducks in a row, legally speaking !
Please educate yourself on the contents of WTC 7 !!!
After you have studied “Parallel Platforms” !
(don’t bother replying to me)
Quote from Carl Sagan that can apply to truthers bamboozled by the 3,000 dead/6,000 injured propaganda as well as it can apply to non-truthers bamboozled by the 19-terrorists-with-boxcutters propaganda –
One of the saddest lessons of history is this:
If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle.
We’re no longer interested in finding out the Truth. The bamboozle has captured us.
It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken.
Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.
“So 9/11 is still too recent to call out as an inside conspiracy, is it? Only 18 years old so it can’t be called out.” 9/11 will never be called out as far as the mainstream media is concerned. Can you imagine the effect if they did? The entire edifice of “The West” would collapse and the Islamic world would explode in deservedly righteous fury. The case is similar, though on a much smaller scale, with that of Tony Blair. He was exposed as a liar and should have been tried as a war criminal. But there was no way that was going to happen since it would necessarily lead to the Western governments throwing up their hands and admitting that they were conscienceless manipulative bastards. In short, the game would be up. On the one hand, 9/11 and Blair’s bullshit serve the ruling class interests and, on the other… Read more »
When they can’t do anything else, they’ll offer up Shady Wahabia as a convenient whipping boy, to divert attention from Kosherstan. This is their fall back position. Offer up the Shadies as the Lee Harvey Oswald of the operation.
“So 9/11 is still too recent to call out as an inside conspiracy, is it? Only 18 years old so it can’t be called out.”
Châteaurati Lafite Rothschild. Well spotted.
I thought I was doing well to steer clear of the Camelot Conspiracy Theory – and the resultant hagiography of the Dead Kennedy’s. In the Curtin/Douglass/Talbot alternative reality version of history: a lot is made of the Northwoods document. In this contrafactual conspiracy virtual historiography: some really, really, bad men – called the JCOS, the CIA, or the ‘Unspeakable’ – try and dupe our rational, morally probate heroes – determined on peace and Catholic sanctification – into committing acts of war on Cuba that no ethically responsible POTUS could even contemplate. So he got rid of Lemnitzer and Dulles: and tried to make peace with Castro …after having saved the world from some really horrible Commies who were trying to blow up the planet. If Operation Mongoose is admitted into this fantasy at all: it was the nasty CIA going behind our glorious heroes backs. As far as I am… Read more »
BigB, this is not the first time you have scribbled uncharitably about the Kennedys and you provide less documentation for this than Curtin et al. provide for their point of view. “Catholic sanctification”? “Camelot conspiracy”? Sounds very objective.
For someone who rails vs racial or religious stereotyping I am surprised. So Lemnitzer gives Kennedy a raving lunatic proposal and weeks later Lemnitzer is gone. Your point about mad dog Lemnitzer hardly needs any Catholic conspiracy innuendo. And you seem to grudgingly acknowledge dots to be connected? And soon after Kennedy is assassinated, Lemnitzer resurfaces in NATO inter alia. So Kennedy likely stood on principle on Northwoods, something in very short supply in US foreign policy, resisted nuking Cuba or anyone else and enjoyed remarkable public popularity. Yet you can’t resist slagging him off yet again and are unable to give him any credit. Why?
Read the documentation. Then re-appraise what you just said in light of the fact that the Kennedy’s ran Operation Mongoose. A fact long denied by those who prefer opinion over fact. My rhetoric is deliberately escalated by the long time championing of fact over constructed fiction: for which I have received unfavourable criticism from above and below the line. Opinions are sacred: facts are not. I prefer fact: which after all is what this site is supposed to be about. I initially believed the Douglass version. But not content with uncritical absorption: I checked the references. This led me to read Stern and other sources. The contradictions between the two cannot be easily resolved. Douglass has created an abstract interpretation of the historical record to create a mythology. This is most clear in his version of the Cuban Missile Crisis – which is a modified ‘Thirteen Days’ historiography. It simply… Read more »
Operation Mongoose had its roots in the Eisenhower admin. starting more than 18 months before Kennedy in Nov 1961. It was ineffective and caused little mayhem, coming to a halt just a year after Kennedy took over. RFK was trying to broker a deal where US Jupiters would be removed from Turkey in exchange for removing Soviet missiles from Cuba.
They did not invade and backed off because other countries including Trudeau’s Canada opposed the mad dog invasion ideas, which simmered and found voice in numerous other nations, all without a Kennedy. At the time, with Russian missiles 90 miles away, I can see how hawkish ethos would thrive. Indeed invasion seemed plausibly supportable.
The most disgusting thing the Americans did there among many, was the embargo, which at its worst caused starvation to the point thousands of Cubans developing nutritional blindness.
Neither was this Kennedy’s fault.
RFK said there would be no ‘quid pro quo’ to Dobrynin and heavily implied that if the Soviets did not remove the missiles – they – the US miltary – would. As in: “there would be drastic consequences”. Which meant invasion. It is all on record. Corroborated by the ExComm tapes (see Stern’s quote posted below). https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/111553.pdf?v=68796a468e2ca4ba537e49353bc97721 Dobrynin had a different, less threatening recollection. So who knows what was actually said? History is seldom black and white. Nor does it easily fulfill binary simplification. However: on November 16 – nearly a month on from the Crisis – the US instigated a full scale rehearsal of the Cuban invasion. With six marine battalions; four assault ships and two helicopter carriers. JFK had 100,000 troops; 40,000 marines; 14,500 paratroops; 550 combat aircraft and 180 ships at the ready. All the time he was bluffing Khrushchev about ‘non-invasion’: he was in full readiness… Read more »
Small point and forgive the pedantry, but plurals DON’T carry apostrophes. Only possessives do. The plural of hat is hats not hat’s. The plural of Kennedy is Kennedys not Kennedy’s.
Except for plurals that are also possessives.
The Kennedys brought the world to the brink? Don’t you think placing the missiles on Cuba had something to do with it? I think the Americans did the right thing, for once, and it was a win win or near to. Missiles gone, no invasion. Then they blew it by starving the Cuban people for decades, and increasingly becoming a plague on mankind.
I hope you don’t mind me saying but given all the American atrocities subsequently, this is very small beer. I am reminded of the old joke. Why do Southern Baptists prohibit sex before marriage? Answ: They are afraid it might lead to dancing. Aren’t you worrying about the dancing? Excuse me for using it but this joke is a contemporary of the Cuban crisis.
Apologies, George: I went off the deep end. Much of what I said was better directed at the comments below yours. My ardour got the better of me. The ad homs actually came from elsewhere. Ignore the last bit or read it as a more general statement to Gary below. It was not personally directed. I do not like being accused of trolling for posting facts.
No worries BigB. I admire your thoroughness, attendance to detail and passion. We do disagree on this one.
Unless you hear the voices of the brothers in any of the data you refer to, BigB, I wouldn’t necessarily believe it. I would put no limits on the extent of fakery (including alleged transcripts) except faking their voices. Zelikow? Being part of 9/11 I’d believe nothing from him unless there was clear evidence. They must have faked the $1 billion quote for the asbestos abatement in the Twin Towers to make truthers believe the perps were capable of anything. As if they’d allow the whole city to be covered in asbestos fibres that couldn’t possibly avoid people in on the operation apart from any other reason. A huge number of people would be affected and they wouldn’t be lying low about it, that’s for sure – yes we’ve got the token few disinformation agents pretending injury (or suffering real injury but not from twin tower asbestos) but this is… Read more »
Oops! There are freely available audio tapes so I retract what I say in my earlier comment.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170124152832/https://millercenter.org/scripps/archive/presidentialrecordings/kennedy/1962/10_1962
Right on time with your CIA talking points Big B. Very nice. I’ll just say it again as it bears repeating, you are a master of the (“The 4 D’s: Deny, Disrupt, Degrade, Deceive”) Big B. And you are predictable as they come. You manage to attack the credibility of Ed Curtain, James Douglas, David Talbot and David Ray Griffin all in one post. Truly impressive work. Why you would think anyone would find your evidence-free nonsensical attacks on those scholars who devote their lives to doing actual independent investigative research on topics such as the assassinations of America’s progressive leadership during the 1960’s, 9/11 as a false-flag, the CIA’s decades of illegal mayhem, etc. – I truly have no idea. However, I must say you’ve absolutely made your case clear that those who dare call out the mayhem and criminality of Western empire are your chosen targets for critique.… Read more »
This is your second evidence-free accusation of trolling. I actually try to steer clear of this nonsensical riposte to legitimate and factual criticism. It literally says: I have no counterargument …so I will resort to the level of dark intellectualism and post-modern anti-argumentation and make troll accusations. You seem to want to have your own truth-hypothesis protected from scrutiny? Which means, *a fortiori*, it can only be a very weak truth-claim, tenaciously defended. I made a long-standing claim – that Douglass and Talbot (see quotes below) – fabricated their versions of the Cuban Missile Crisis. I make very specific references that show this to be true (again, see below and the DNSA documents above). These negate the fabricated versions on the basis that RFK was the chief Cuba hawk. NOT as Talbot and Douglass claim: that they stood alone against the Unspeakable …as Douglass chose to reframe it. This can… Read more »
@All in this thread – try to avoid accusations of trolling unless there is considerable evidence – beyond mere differences of opinion.
Admin – To be clear, I’ve never accused BigB of “being a troll, ” just pointing out that he is routinely – “posting like one.” Anyone who has followed this site for as long as I have is certainly aware of this state of affairs. It is nothing new.
I find BigB’s demeaning and/or bullying tactics directed toward those who disagree with him (be they authors or fellow commenters) to be quite in line with the trolling manual Ed Snowden released. (“The 4 D’s: Deny, Disrupt, Degrade, Deceive.”) Some of us, I at least, have grown tired of such nonsense.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Personally I could care less whether BigB is a troll or not, I just think in the name of basic human decency that he should stop posting like one.
Everything I posted here is factual. Most of it copied verbatim from the primary record; with links where necessary. If you want to respond: respond directly. The primary record is not the Holy Grail. It needs contextualising: which can be discussed. I have never tried to shut down the conversation: merely expand it. Douglass’ and Talbot’s version of the ‘the Brothers versus the Rest’ – the Unspeakable – does not match the historic record. For which I have provided more than adequate references. The article above claims that Northwoods was never implemented. Insofar as it stands: that is true. It is not the whole truth though: as Operation Mongoose did proceed and was instrumental in precipitating the CMC (see comment to George above). I showed that the brothers – far from being deceived – where instrumental in the planning of Operation Mongoose from start to finish. This is made clear… Read more »
Not to disagree, but would it not be fair to say tho that you interpret the facts in line with your own preconceptions, as indeed do those who oppose you?
The data is ambiguous. Often capable of many readings. To say you cite the sources is not the same as claiming the sources prove your certitude?
Perhaps some give or take on both sides is needed.
Admin please close this entire fucking mad house down as it’s literally infested by mad people!
No wonder you lot got thrown off Comment is free, you’re all flipped in the head
Take my advice go seek medical help, and stop your self harming anger and rage!
I’m out, thought I’d give this site the benefit of dought, but no just another mad conspiracy place for nutters
Please ban me, so that i know there’s no point in ever coming back, just in case I’m ever tempted
OVER AND OUT!
Thanks for the advice. You spelled ‘doubt’ wrong.
Sorry but we don’t ban people – even when they ask us to.
Hohoho, I knew it wouldn’t take long to get rid of ‘Crispy’ no-name, no-brain and not a single fucking constructive intelligent or intellectual thing to say, whilst trolling. On yer’ bike crispy no-name, no brain > you’ll be back in some other disguise, I’m sure, but it won’t be in your own name, unlike Dilyana Gaytandzhieva & Myself ! Because you are a fucking huge coward that cannot face or refute FACTS !!! You tosspot with wee wimpy big mouth and no TESTICLES. Before you depart, FYI, you fucking dumb arrogant cheeky cnut, I was a Transport Manger on the Isle of Wight, in the early 80’s AND I’m was so far ahead of David Icke, from Ryde, way back then, whilst he was still keeping Goal and kicking balls around for fools like you, crispy, who was probably not even born back then, still sperm in yer’ father’s underwear.… Read more »
I know i shouldn’t and i did promise i wouldn’t but its just to irresistible
I claim my £10,you are Walter Mitty,😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 😅😅😅😅😅😤😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sorry Admin for that, but its like walking past a slightly open door and a glimpse of something so mad and insane is in sight that you just can’t resist it was
I’m sure ” Tim” gets it!
There is plenty of dought here as in doughty.
Apologies for the rough treatment of the both illiterate & very very young lad, George: it just seemed pointless allowing ‘him’ to continuously spout crap and trying to turn this site into the ‘Beano’: his methods were obvious to all from the outset. Clearly he got the message that he was out of his depth, discussing things beyond his knowledge, like…
Lieutenant Pigeon (brain) – Mouldy old Dough, springs to mind 🙂
You perfectly summed it as the Beano,well done Walter,wink,wink😉😉
Queenie, she’s a big fucking green lizard, oh but let s has evidence of trolling, you’re having a joke ain’t ya!
you don’t even know who Dilyana Gaytandzhieva is and you also don’t have the courage that she or I have, let alone our combined knowledge, that will always transcend wankers like you, because we are meticulous in the detail of our vocational experience, scientifically and journalistically speaking, ALL way above your head & TCHÜSS 🙂
Sounds like a Russian porn star
Sounds like a fuming angry red faced spoilt little ignorant brat boy fascist troll from the 77th Brigade kiddies dept. is desperately butthurt & insulted by the reality of being called out for what he truly really is >>> A COMPLETE COWARD, that has never seen a dead body, let alone witnessed the actions or aftermath of Genocide or any war, for that matter, on the frontline. You’d be shot in an instant, were we at war together and nobody would ever give a damn that your life was terminated and with zero sense of guilt, likely even your mother would be relieved: only the eternal shame of your treasonous behaviours would be the remains of the day. Treasonous to the Science of Humanity, you will always remain a no-name, no -brain, so to say, a real ‘thicky’ and no loss to anybody, not even your section medic, mother or… Read more »
Just a curious after thought, seriously: I was wondering if you happened to have grown up without a father, but with your mother, who loathed & resented you from a very early age, as she did your father ? This would explain your shameful childish behavioural patterns and your lack of care or attention to detail,
beyond any ‘dought’, a love drought !
Your shtick is old and stale BigB. I’ve watched your tired routine too long to have any further patience with your nonsense. Andre Vltchek posts regarding the observable differences between Western/American imperialism and the actions of China & Russia in the world – and you of course attack Vltchek, China & Russia ignoring global reality in the process. Renee Parsons posts on the efforts by the American political class, MSM, Hillary ‘the rot’ Clinton (face of the CIA) – to exclude Tulsi Gabbard’s open public challenge to the U.S. war machine, and you of course attack Tulsi Gabbard – a candidate anyone with the slightest clue knows has no chance of winning the nomination, but one who offers the only public exposure most Americans will ever get to hearing some basic reality regarding our support for jihadists, our illegal immoral regime-change wars, and our support for the war in Yemen.… Read more »
I have now referenced three archives of facts: plus the primary archive of the ExComm tapes. You can stick your fact-free wherever you want. Where are your facts? The DNSA Cuba and Mongoose archives negate the Thirteen Days Sorenson bullshit that Talbot and Douglass rely on. Where are their facts? Anyone can look at what I have posted and appraise them for themselves. What links can they follow to establish your ad-hom analysis?
Let me see if I get this. You are referencing U.S. government archives to defend U.S. government criminality? The Warren Commission (for example) and it’s associated massive file of “archives”) defend a “magic bullet” while distorting the associated historical record beyond all recognition. Government archives are your “factual record?” Thanks. That clarifies things completely.
Here is a little followup on the “official record” and “facts” paradigm you seem to be so very loyal to BigB. C.J. Hopkin’s just posted this. It is worth the read as it is an example of how when all is said and done “the record” is simply what is convenient to those who wield power, and doesn’t necessarily bear the slightest resemblance to “reality” no matter how “official” said record may be. The notion that you are creating your very own “reality” out of some sincere examination of U.S. government records is frightening in itself, but that is your business.
https://consentfactory.org/2019/11/05/the-ministry-of-wiki-truth/
Distressing to see this starting to spiral out of control between two admirable and thought-provoking contributors, ones who surely share more attitudes than is evident on this thread.
BigB. Your naïveté is almost touching: you claim archives as truth, despite all that we know about the CIA deliberately creating false archives. Just as Orwell said: Who controls the present controls the past, controls the future. Watergate burglar Hunt admitted under oath that he had altered records to show that JFK had ordered the assassination of Diem: he did so so as to tarnish his reputation amongst Catholics. I also recall that your beloved scholar Zelikow was taken to task for doing much the same thing in the JFK archives. Your logic is bizarre: you think Lemnitzer was part of the assassination plot. But if that were so, then how did he get away with it? Might it not require huge swathes of the military, CIA and State departments and the entire MSM to be complicit. Iy would seem that you are flogging a dead horse on this website… Read more »
I know I am flogging a dead horse: which is why I gave up. The DNSA archive revived my interest. You and I could have sorted this years ago with a comparative reading of Stern and Douglass side by side. The offer is still open. The CIA did not fabricate the ExComm tapes. Let us make that perfectly clear. That is a non-argument. They probably did not even know about them. They were never meant to be made public. That RKF was the chief hawk for Cuban invasion is clear and negates the narrative construction that they were against the Unspeakable. They were part of it. End of. This allows me to reach exactly the same conclusion that Lemnitzer and Dulles were involved. Without the whole fabricated ‘turning to peace’ constructivism and an overlay about the Unspeakable. There is hardly anything that distinguishes the Unspeakable in my eyes. Apart from… Read more »
Your take on events might be accurate but you rather miss the point; the original article simply contends that JFK was murdered by the state in a coup d’etat, which is still denied to this day. Whether he deserved to die (presumably you think so) is immaterial. By my simple logic, he couldn’t have been all bad if the really really bad guys murdered him. Furthermore, such logic is also consistent with JFK’s political views before his Presidency e.g. his support for post colonial leaders like Lumumba, Sukarno etc. and his views on peace e.g. “war will continue until that distant day when the conscientious objector is revered as the warrior is today. Blessed are the peace makers. May you find some in your tortured illogical mind.
The original article claims Northwoods was never implemented: which is only partially true. It was rejected because it was overt. Covert operations – Operation Mongoose – where carried out until 1963. They were run by the Kennedy regime as the highest priority. As I have now provided several archives to back up.
We can easily establish the facts without resort to comments about my tortured illogical mind. The actual Kennedy’s have nothing to do with this. It is the invented Kennedy’s that are constructions of the imagination in comtemporary minds. That is illogical, Hugh. For everything anyone contends about the imaginary Kennedy’s – there is a primary historic record – that prevents the invention.
It still needs contextualising: but out and out fabrications – such as Douglass and Talbot put forward are easily refuted. Or not. The legend lives on and the facts do not. Not on this site anyway.
Quite an effort to blame the Kennedy brothers over the other power brothers, not even mentioned: John Foster Dulles US secretary of State and Allan Dulles boss and co-creator of the CIA. They had already organized coups in Iran and Guatemala, so the intent and experience were there: no need for newbie JFK. This “Cuban project” was commissioned in March 1960; JFK only became president in January 1961.
The fact that Castro thought he was going to be invaded was a key driver in reaching out to Khrushchev.
The Bay of Pigs “Invasion” happened on 17 April 1961: the Kennedy brothers would have had 3 months to prepare that as compared to the Dulles brothers over 10 years. New presidents need time to settle in…
JFK had that taping system installed only in the spring of 1962, way before the Bay of Pigs. https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/white-house-tape-recordings
before = after
There are terms which become used and accepted as a currency of abuse and therefore are devalued from serving any other use. While the rational mind can engage in the showing the irrational nature of the term – that has no effect on its usage – as a polarising of identity rather than opening communication. So regard the use of such terms as a block to communication – masking AS a communication. Telling people they are wrong does not make us any more right. Evasion and deflection of culpability seeks to push its wrongness away from itself onto others so as to regain a relative self-righteousness. How much is nature and how much is nurture? Self-interest can react in ways that escapes a sense of threat and thus finds ways to deflect or divert unwanted attention – while such conditioning may not be our original nature it runs upon it… Read more »
A conspiracy theorist was regaling a friend with one conspiracy theory after another. Finally, the friend interrupted and said, “I bet I know what would happen if God Himself appeared out of the sky right now, looked down at us, and said, ‘There is no conspiracy.’ I bet you would look up and say, ‘So the conspiracy goes higher than we thought.’”
This sounds droll until you realise that the friend is automatically assuming that God would say “There is no conspiracy” i.e. the friend is automatically assuming there is no conspiracy.
Sorry – I meant to put a block quote round the first bit.
“[…] intelligence agencies, militaries, government officials, and politicians don’t sometimes cooperate in covert, secretive ways.”
…sometimes?
Back here there are so many conspiracies, I can’t even remember some of them and I’m sure I don’t even know about many. What immediately popped into my mind was the 18 years given to Carl Beech. I don’t know whether he was guilty or innocent of the charges levelled at him. I do know, however, there was a group of paedophiles connected to the Elm Guest House and there was at one time evidence which might have convicted people but too much time has passed and too many people who might have given evidence have died.
I certainly believe that there is nothing our security services like more than a paedo.
Thank you for the book recommendation:)
Last night, I watched “The Panama Deception”(1992). It’s an incredible documentary unveiling a horrible conspiracy. Here it is:
The current conspiracy against their president (jfk & Carter being the previous ones) is gloriously falling to pieces by the day. This one can not be denied or from a long time ago. The ‘whistleblower’ of the Ukrainian phonecall turns out to be a CIA operative, worked with Biden and conspired with Schiff to make the anonymous allegation that would lead to impeachment and stop Trump standing for the second term. That whistleblower, his name is public now as is his continued CIA employment, is now NOT going to testify to the Impeachment c’tee, nor is the second one; the ones who have are found to be Ukrainian quislings dressed up as US patriots. The blowback means – Biden is the one who will have to withdraw. It means the democrat leadership and their DS wonks are fucked as well as the msm stooges who have been shoving anti –… Read more »
“Vote them out”, good luck with that. Both of the two corporate and billionaire/trillionaire sponsored national political parties serve the same masters, and they are not the mass of individual voters. Those two parties have exclusive Media presence. US Presidential elections are always a false binary choice. Every US President has been related to an elite, ultra wealthy, intertwined group of families. Even Barack Obama is related, his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was related to Lord Stanley and the Dunham family. Checks and Balances are a ruse. The Supreme Court only reviews an Act of Congress, signed into Law by the US President, if someone litigates a challenge through the US Court system, and even if the case gets to the Supreme Court level, then the Supreme Court is not required to review every case. The Justices, being human, can make a bad decision on bad law. The US Constitution… Read more »
The US can go for the indy candidate if they want. The support being one third each. The indy third being the target for all the billions spent in US elections. Here in the UK there has been capture of the main opposition party by the ‘ancients’ for at least 50 years. Through overt and covert infiltration, by the CIA controlled Atlantists and the CIA controlled extreme ‘leftists’. Causing the takeover of the Labour party by the neoliberal neocon global forces. They are the 5+1 eyed empire. But the British electorate have finally got the chance to make the same choice their grandparents did in 1945 (by good fortune of the hubristic NuLabInc 2015 leadership election). 1945 saw the great ‘Winnie’ dumped and a Atlee government elected by a massive majority that set up the NHS and other socialist policies. 2019 should see the ‘Mini Winnie’ being dumped a ‘Modern… Read more »
The most alarming thing that the Church Committee found, though, was that the CIA had an assassination program. It was revealed that the CIA assassinated or had tried to assassinate Dinh Diem of Vietnam, Raphael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic, General Rene Schneider of Chile, Fidel Castro, Patrice Lumumba of the Congo, and other political leaders throughout the world.Forty-five years after the revelations of the Church Committee, it seems US intelligence agencies are still engaging in covert and improper conduct. If I would be a comedian, I would probably say “Church Committee My Ass”. Since I am not a comedian – at least not one I know of – I will simply state that “Only a moronic fool could think that these terror agencies stopped what they were paid for”. Now, to back that up a bit, I like to refer to this article on Global Research that – coincidentally… Read more »
The Epstein case deserves Being an addendum to this documentary. The forces promoting the preposterous official story must be as powerful as can be. Andrew, Clinton, et al. This is one which can be replayed before anyone forgets. And Sandy Berger stashing secret documents implicating Clinton under a construction hut? Clinton came out with a jovial explanation about Berger’s absent-mindedness. So all of you absent-minded professors who have misplaced something. Look under your nearest construction hut. But not if you live in Washington. There may be no more room.
Interesting to find Berger’s name pop up in Epsteins black book and his name on the manifest of the Lolita Express. He died a few years ago, claimed to be from cancer, not before Tel Aviv University gave him an honorary degree. Now what exactly would the National Security Advisor have done for Israel in the interests of the American people?
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-high-society-contacts.html Makes for fascinating reading.
It is not enough to know that we are vindicated because of the conspiracies that turned out to be true events , how can the system be fixed when the conspirators are actually in control .Corruption breeds more corruption and here we are ,living in such a quagmire of lies and deception .The exposé of the 9/11 event will go a long way to correct the state of affairs of the criminal acts by our own governments. Bring it on and let the fallout begin.
The only way to achieve change is for the people to act in a way that they are not directed to do.
Storm the Bastille.
Repeat 1945.
And of course there’s those old chestnuts.
Belief in a God or lots of money will make you happy.