DISCUSS: Exit Polls and Election Results
Studio Shot of a Ballot Box
The polls are closed, and the exit polls are in, and apparently Labour has had a terrible day. The story taking shape is that Brexit, over everything else, was the deciding factor.
The first results show Blyth Valley, a Labour safe seat since 1950, has turned blue. Over Brexit. It will be the first of many. That’s allegedly what the exit polls are saying.
But can Exit Polls be relied upon? No one at OffGuardian has ever been included in an exit poll, or knows anyone that has. It’s possible they are invented, or at least manipulated.
It’s still only early, but right now this result makes very little sense to us.
As always, discuss below.
- Are these exit polls accurate?
- If so, what hurt Labour in the polls?
- Does the projected result really seem believable?
- …have any of our readers ever been in an exit poll?
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Added to what i said what i said earlier, these are the minimum standards i think any1 who can influence society should meet, let alone politicians: Bauhaus – Double Dare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUDjhyrjDes
So sorry, my paranoia is seriously at problem levels if i question the good ppl. This is the link to the post, Rico Smokescreen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJKfJIwSncM
All that’s magical sweet ppl and let’s try to make this a magical New Year! Loadsa love, all that’s good =)
Would love to now why my just now post needed censoring offg?
Your post is right there.
Think i’m among the few who don’t believe this election result, a gobsmacking 38% of results were postal results, that’s fairytale land.
Smacks of rigging, it shouldn’t be accepted. This is how it feels to me:rico https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJKfJIwSnc
But now they’ve messed with your URL. Oooo, sneaky what?
“”Concerns raised over senior Tory MP link to election count firm””
2016 but never investigated, I bet.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14478267.concerns-raised-over-senior-tory-mp-link-to-election-count-firm/
There are numerous posters on this site who would “raise concerns” over the authenticity of the BBC’s time pips should the opportunity arise for them to so do.
Exit Polls ?…Pfft, just means that once again, folk turned out to divide themselves – which is always a win For the Established Order.
I worked on the bbc/sky/itv exit poll for Ipsos-Mori. They are real, honest!
Nah, it’s all good. I don’t want to see the Ponzi di tutti Ponzi going tits up with Jezza at the wheel. Just imagine Grauniad, BBC & Co – “It all went so well until he came along, we warned you”. I say, let our neoliberal overlords ride this torpedo until the end.
My apologies for coming off stronger than usual. However, humanity needed Jeremy Corbyn to take over Downing Street Nº 10 in this election.
Do you really believe the winning loser will not have a splendid relationsship with the Bolivian coup plotters?
No, we did not have the time to lose this election. ‘We’ – as in ‘Humanity’.
There is what appears to be a large demonstration going on in London right now (Friday evening)…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bD1Ais23ek
It’s difficult from the above livestream to see how big the demo is (it doesn’t seem to be that big, although there’s lots of scuffles with the police).
The main chants are “Tory scum, off our streets” and “Our NHS is not for sale”.
The baying mob are making their way towards the gates of Downing Street.
When people realise what a total betrayal Bojo’s Brexit is, you can probably multiply such public disorder by at least a hundred-fold.
This crowd are apparently Antifa, a dangerous bunch of neo-Bolsheviks, sponsored allegedly by Soros.
a whole lotta cheating goin’ on. The intention may have been to have the Cons win a small majority..(.seats would have been contested), but by the powers that be giving the Cons a huge majority it will be hard to dispute. I don’t believe for an instant that the Cons won this election. Trump stated they wouldn’t, Pompeo stated they wouldn’t and a British general said some time ago that Corbyn would be assassinated if he won.Democracy does not exist and where it does a coup takes place.
yes sir
a sham a scam
the numbers give it away
all ritual.
it all smells fishier than a 3 fish pie
at a masonick mongers meeting
in the city the london
fishmongers halls
The Tory Government’s main support base, is certainly not in London, within The M25. It is now in Northern England’s Working Class, most of who’m have never voted Tory before.
Thatcher shutdown most of the wealth creating industry in The North of England, forcing me to move to London to get a job. Norman Tebbit, told me to get on my bike. So I did, because I did not want to be totally impoverished.
BREXIT may actually be delivered now…
But what is far more important, is That The Working Class, have the opportunites to get back to work, and create something useful, like what we used to do.
Boris Johnson is not all bad. I think he did a great job as Mayor London, and carried on the work of Ken Livingston, with many quite socialist policies, like free bus, tube and trains, for the over 60’s or people on benefits, and even “Boris Bikes” – a bit like Amsterdam – at least in theory.
What is needed is massive infrastructure and other investments, particularly in the poorest part of the country, so young people actually have an opportunity to do some useful work, such that they can create something of value and be proud of it.
I don’t know if The Tory Government will deliver it, but The North of England is now their support base, by people who want to work, who used to vote Labour, but have been completely ignored, and deserted by The Labour Party. Such people are actually very conservative with a small c., They have traditional family and working values and they do not like being betrayed by any of these neoliberal f’ckers who think the entire effin world resides within the M25, regardless of their political label.
So UP YOU!!!!! I am thinking of the image from The Film Kes.
Great vote for DEMOCRACY
The MP’s should have done what we told them to do over 3 years ago, which was to leave The EU.
They agreed they would, but they used every excuse in the book to do Nothing, and called us thick, stupid, uneducated – telling us that they knew better (cos they liked their gravy train and pigs in blankets at the trough, whilst doing Sweet FA of any value). They didn’t even make any sensible decisions about anything.
You didn’t do it, and are now on the dole (including a lot of The Blairite Fascists, which includes my former MP)
Tough sh1t. Must be a bit of a shock to you.
We’ve got a Tory now.
I did not vote for him
I couldn’t quite bring myself to vote Tory, though I did think about it, and I think he is a good young man.
I can’t believe he is now my MP.
Tony
Tony, I always enjoy your insights and your take on things, and long may you post.
At the moment, though, I think you might be calling this incorrectly.
Labour heartlands, devastated by Thatcher, and now by ‘austerity’, do not suddenly vote Tory, and the unicorns.
It just doesn’t make sense.
Labour heartlands were devastated by Labour to begin with. Thatcher performed the coup de grace with heartless abandon.
Do some research on pit closures during the 70’s.
The Conservative party is bloody awful and they will screw this up, but to imply that this result is a conspiracy reveals condescending arrogance.
Labour heartlands were very much taken for granted by New Labour too, who were content to warehouse those people on benefits, provide no help with reskilling and import millions of immigrants to compete with them for a diminishing number of poorly paid, precarious jobs.
Maurice Glasman seems to be the only Labour figure who really understands what is going on. check out this interview https://www.spiked-online.com/podcast-episode/globalisation-has-made-our-lives-empty/.
I know, I know it is with Spiked, but ignore the interviewer, listen to the interviewee.
The scum dregs of the working class will vote Tory so long as they think that it will be others, their neighbours and fellow workers, who get screwed, but not themselves. When they get stabbed in the back by their new Tory ‘friends’, they’ll turn to fascism.
Nobody is more depressed than me at the thought of five more years of BJ and the neo-liberal wrecking crew. I hold the Labour party wholly responsible for this, specifically the treacherous PLP and the Blairite wreckers who put a turd in the pinch bowl of their manifesto, forcing us all to choose between more Tory misrule and Brexit or a rigged second referendum.
On a brighter note, the working classes, for so long ignored, demonised and kicked in the teeth, have woken up and shown that their vote can no longer be taken for granted, nor can their complicity in whatever political projects the soi-disant elites wish to inflict upon them.
I’m sure there must be a fair few crinkly sphincters in Whitehall tonight at the realisation that if handled badly we could have a very vigorous gilets jaunes movement on these shores and that future politicians will need to go out of their way to win and keep the loyalty of the working classes.
Things could get very interesting over the next few years…
people who want to work, who used to vote Labour, but have been completely ignored, and deserted by The Labour Party. ???? you do realise of course , the tories have been in power for the last ten years?
I live within blyth valley (thankfully not in blyth itself) and the local labour bootboys were very desperate with their pleas to get out and vote off-Red. Always knew brexit and being a weak as piss Trotskyist was going to tank Corbyn it’s his own fault.
When all else fails there’s still real beauty in the world and the out of this world fusion of Bob Marley and Annie Lennox.
Still waiting in vain for justice, democracy and peace. When will it end?
sad 2 say annie is a project so very little joy too be had with that.
i believe one of her lyrics had the line
so many monsters
music industry is all deception
tired soles bad actors
sold souls
So! What’s your point?
Having difficulty working it out yourself?
No, looking at the speed of replies I know exactly what’s going on.
How Annie Lennox is such a problem with you people I don’t know. Is she Jewish?
no more i love you”s for you
you monster.
annie is inverted
sold her soul
traded it for fame and fortune
they rarely write the lyrics
some of them do sing some with vocoder some
naturally.
all actor
kingsmen and queensmen
some castrato others never had
annie likes dressing up as a man or is it as a woman.
whats my point
the world is weird
init
That would be fitting to be put on your tombstone. The sooner the better.
That’s not very pacifistic is it.
How so?
naughty boy simon i am a semite
are you a nazi?
sounds like you directing a threat in my direction
your a new hitler or a new churchill
you brute…
We should be taking advice from a Norman Wisdom avatar. Seriously!!!!!!!!!!
When we get the cojones to hang the royal family and not before.
If you think murder is justice then its no surprise why we are in the state we are in.
Tell that to the Appellate Committee of the House of Lords. Murder indeed.
Amazing how so many people have piled into a post that just wanted to let people hear a beautiful song. Something very wrong going on here.
Sorry, Simon. Tough choice. Liking your music, a possible diversion?
Or, questioning UK State’s electoral criminal conduct re so-called “free-democratic elections”?
OK moron what’s the ‘meaning’ of this one?
What’s the meaning of a silly pop group comprised of a paedo and a gentleman farmer other than they weren’t quite so obvious when young, or maybe they were (pictures of Lily eh, nudge, nudge).
So what music or art are you prepared to permit us to like according to your totalitarian politics?
Or what is ‘wrong’ with this music?
I don’t. If you think anyone can dismantle the security state, army, civil service and elite rulers without spilling blood, you’re crazy.
It’s not going to happen of course, the best we can hope for long term, is to survive a nuclear war and given we’re such a small compact Island on the edge of the chosen battlefield, the likelihood of that is miniscule so I’d rather dream of the revision we need but will never have.
The trite reply of every totalitarian murderer in history.
There speaks the twisted voice of “the Liberal left”. Murder is committed every day, from homelessness to benefit sanctions to enforced suicide to the poor Skripals to our brave special forces shooting women and children in Afghanistan.
It’s too late for us to kick back now, every aspect of our lives is regulated and people like you are the enablers.
All you are doing is trying to justify murder on your own twisted terms. I am a liberal pacifist who has never hit or harmed anyone in my whole life. You obviously don’t see things the same way. You are as much a part of the problem simply because you see yourself as the violent solution.
I despise Liberals.
Every fascist does.
You, on the other hand are not a bit condescending, supercilious or suffering from sophomania.
They are not jewish but they are black. What is ‘wrong’ with this music?
I don’t understand where you’re coming from Simon. Music is good, some used to document the struggle. Now it means nothing beyond personal preference. It’s like art and books, simply a timely retelling of something that has been done before and can’t be trumped (haha). An example is Strange Fruit Billie Holliday or books by George Jackson/Angela Davis etc. In light of them the Who, good as they were, are just entertainers who got rich.
I have no idea where you are coming from other than your propensity to wish to hang people and call for violence and wars whether that be class, gender or race and think its clever.
Like Liberals don’t do wars eh?
You are a totalitarian moron who doesn’t appreciate what liberalism means.
fascist
Hahaha.
I’m a Trudeau Liberal until he finishes his second term and then I’ll go independent.
MOU
I used to be one for a short while, a long time ago, until they were hijacked and became ilLiberal.
There is no ‘liberal’ left any more just fascists like yourself.
Silly boy.
The entire Western security complex was eviscerated March 10th 2008 around 11:00am Bear Stearns time NYC. No blood was spilled in the takedown of Western Imperialism & the Western Fractional Reserve Banking System. Not a drop.
MOU
The Russians did something like that, and it didn’t end well.
Let them stay, but put them on civil service pay grades (not too senior) and conditions as part of their “royal duties”. They’d have to pay rent. Can’t afford the rooms in the palaces? No problem, let them go on the local housing list, and turn the palaces into museums.
All this would have to be after Brenda goes to join the choir invisible. Everyone loves Brenda (or has to pretend to). Plus, she got the job under different terms and conditions. Sort of like TUPE.
That live and let live policy did for Libya and Venuzeala and will do for the rest of central/South America and Nicaragua. They’re too good at fostering discontent, economic warfare and financing puppets.
Soon.
What a surprise. Well blow me down. Knock me over with a feather. Who’da believed it?
Not very. Their sampling methods are necessarily to sketchy. But the people trying to earn a poond out them try to do an honest job–the only penalty for getting them wrong is a shrinking clientele base. Nobody likes to pay for crap,
If so, what hurt Labour in the polls?
Longer post.
They over-estimated the Tory wins, and over-estimated the Labour losses. And over-estimated the SNP gains.
But they weren’t all that far off.
many folks think liverpool care pathway where loan wolf glitch in the system
rather than policy
i’m all right jack
thatchers legacy
society what
the old folks the useless eaters the broken not so old soldier
liverpool care pathway for all .
from many lands
millions will come for tesco and amazon and starbucks
under donmeh not so young turk boris.
the able youth drones of the future
replacing the ancient broke backed and once was.
it is math accountancy taxation
the city of london fishmongers fishers of souls
tax collectors harvesters of humans
you will be factored evaluated for tax value
let lived or dr harold shipman snuffed out
the demons of the city
beyond the kings reach
will it
so it will be so
a pathway all goyim can believe in already
for we so love and believe in are doctor
Reading round the liberal media, the tears of the snowflakes, the bewilderment of the Corbynistas, the angry blame game about Corbyn’s leadership and the barely concealed glee of the bitter Blairites, not to mention theusual hate-filled gammon baiting that we have seen for the last three years, I can’t help thinking that not only is the British electorate far more politically and economically literate than the metropolitan soi-disant elites, but that these ‘elites’ really are the stupid, reactionary and bigoted ones.
”I can’t help thinking that not only is the British electorate far more politically and economically literate than the metropolitan soi-disant elites, but that these ‘elites’ really are the stupid, reactionary and bigoted ones.”
Agree absolutely. The metropolitan middle-class do not have relationship to the means of production as the working class and haute bourgeoisie do. So they tend to drift along latching on to the latest ideological craze – be it identity politics, woke consciousness, post-modernism, a borderless world … transgenderism and the works of Ayn Rand. All very trendy and right on.
As Karl Mannhiem pointed out.
‘There are two courses of action which the unattached middle-class have taken out of their middle-of-the-road position: firstly what amounts to a largely voluntary affiliation with either of the antagonistic classes; secondly scrutiny of their own moorings and the quest for the fulfillment of their mission a s the predestined advocate of the middle-class interests as a whole.”
The Anglo-American middle-class as a whole I find to be politically sub-literate. Of course there are honourable exceptions but in the main one is struck by their mediocrity.
Poor Corbyn and Labour, but it has to be said…..
https://youtu.be/2Ttsa4__Ewk
The Curmudgeon
I think it’s also significant that since being elected Corbyn has been a leader who was popular with the greatly increased Labour Party membership, but was loathed by the majority of Labour MPs in Parliament where it counts politically. So Corbyn was like the captain of a ship where the crew are on the verge of mutiny all the time.
Corbyn was desparate, to a fault, to keep the Labour Party together, at all costs and not give the Blairites the excuse or opportunity to break away or topple him from power. This meant he really spent most of his time and energy merely surviving as leader, rather than developing new policies and addressing the ‘menace’ of Brexit.
Corbyn was balancing between the Party and the Parliamentary Labour Party, endlessly. The Blairites saw Corbyn as a bigger threat to their position than the Tories. In fact, they are closer to them than to Corbyn’s brand of revived social democracy. The Labour Party is, now more than ever, at least two parties or factions, forced to work together. If the UK had a normal European voting system, where the votes are all equal and seats are allocated proportionally… Labour would have split decades ago.
Boris Johnson was far, far, better at running the Tory Party effectively than Corbyn was.
The Labour Party will now lurch into open civil war.
………. Again. Each election brings the risible right wing entities into play as labour spends the next five years staring at its navel – behaving in many ways like the Democrats across the pond. There’ll be inquest after inquest resulting in more inquests and the continuation of the process of demise because labour will not address the elephant in its room. What exactly does today’s, modern labour party stand for and who exactly does it appeal to???
The worst part of it is many are already saying that, apart from Corbyn himself (they don’t like his mouth or teeth or beard, or his skewed glasses), the only reason Labour lost was they didn’t come out strongly enough for remain (unlike Batshit crazy Swinson eh?).
What does ‘labour’ even mean anymore in a society/economy like the UK’s? The old bedrock the Labour Party was founded on: the mass, industrial, working class… is gone.
Whatever happened to, solidarity?
The Tories are, ironically, perhaps the most class-concious party we have. A movement determined to preserve their status and position in the economy and wider society.
What happens now? Does Labour disintegrate? Does it return to the ‘golden years’ of Blairism, that was really Tory lite, or does it swing towards something else? Is the era of a mass ‘left’ party in UK politics actually over?
England is a true neo-liberal society. Atomised, socially vicious, dog-eat-dog, every man for himself and the Devil Market take the hindmost. All others competition at best, in a race to the bottom, or enemies to be crushed by any means necessary.
Boris didn’t have to run the Tory Party, himself, he had the Tory Establishment PR machine, and the BBC, behind him – the same people who were behind the anti-Corbyn smear campaign.
The Parliamentary Labour Party was thoroughly behind the anti-Corbyn smear campaign.
Yes, them too. But mainly the right-wing, warmonger, British Establishment and their clandestine propaganda machine.
Before the election, OffGuardian ran an article suggesting that someone in the Labour Party may have done a deal with the Foreign Office to reassure them that, if Labour won, they wouldn’t threaten any core interests of the Foreign Office, or other powerful parts of the establishment. I don’t know whether that true, or not. It wouldn’t surprise me. I certainly believe they would have side-lined Corbyn, or toppled him, if he hadn’t gone along with an establishment imposed agenda. But, now, we’ll probably never know.
Caitlin Johnson wrote, on her website, that the smear campaign against Corbyn was “unprecedented”. But similar things have happened before, with the Zinoviev Letter, the Wilson Plot, and the smear campaign against Tony Benn, during his bid for the Labour Party deputy leadership, after he had promised to introduce internal democracy in the Labour Party – a promise which was repeated in the Corbyn leadership campaign, but which has never really been fulfilled. If there had been internal democracy, Corbyn would have been more able to implement his agenda, and it is even possible that they might have won this election, or the previous one, in 2017.
The ‘antisemitism’ smear campaign was unprecedented for its deranged viciousness, persistence and total inversion of reality. And it is the template for future campaigns against the Left as ‘antisemites’ a lie that can be concocted out of absolutely nothing.
For more details about the smear campaign against Tony Benn in 1981, see ‘The Benn Heresy’ by Alan Freeman, Pluto Press, 1982. The blurb on the back cover states:- “No politician since the war has suffered more abuse, from both right and left, than Tony Benn. Reviled either as a dangerous revolutionary, a power-mad dictator, or an incorrigible reformist, he has nonetheless inspired the rank and file of the Labour movement and changed the face of British politics.” (I remember it well, I was a local Labour Party member at that time)
It is true they didn’t (as far as I can remember) accuse Benn of “antisemitism”. But they did accuse him of just about everything else. It was also a total inversion of reality.
The prologue to Freeman’s book says; “….the Benn movement, though a minority current, is nonetheless deeply popular. It has swept the constituency Labour Parties. It won over two million votes in the unions. In December 1981 a poll indicated that forty percent of Labour voters in the unions wanted Benn to continue his campaign in the Labour Party. Wherever he speaks, Benn attracts record audiences. This is a new, mass, popular social movement”.
Then the Labour Party and the trade unions marginalised the popular Benn movement, and Benn was, thereafter, confined to the back benches. Just as the parliamentary Labour Party and the warmonger, pro-nuclear, trade union bosses will soon marginalise the popular grass-roots Corbyn movement (whilst perhaps keeping a few, jam tomorrow, alleged “anti-austerity” policies and future broken promises in their manifesto, as window dressing, to try to keep the Corbynistas on board for as long as possible.
Yesterday I got a a note from a friend who described Corbyn as “is a unpleasantly reptilian fellow who nobody can trust”. We’re Americans, admittedly with British connections (I was born and spent the first half of my life in the UK), so how could someone who doesn’t live there day to day form this kind of visceral opinion on someone they don’t know? The answer’s pretty obvious and speaks a to a more important truth about contemporary politics, one that’s important to us because the same political consulting companies, the same communication (propaganda?) entities and even the same strategies are going to be recycled for next year’s election cycle.
(FWIW the only details I know about Corbyn outside his public persona is that he leads a fairly quiet life and grows vegetables in a community garden (“allotment”) in his spare time.)
One thing that did stand out from this election is that the Conservatives made serious inroads into what were once Labour strongholds, the equivalent of our rust belt areas. I’m not sure what’s going on here but I’d guess that the mistake is to assume that these areas, once significant industrial centers with a large working class population, are now not working class at all but mostly administrative & technical with what industrial activity being warehousing and light manufacturing. It would be interesting to find out what’s keeping these economies afloat.
What is going on, very simply, is that the people wanted Brexit and Labour which had once supported it changed its position. Jeremy Corbyn who is by instinct a Brexiteer and an honourable man, tried to place himself above the fray in order to placate his largely remain Parliamentary party. WHilst there is a good deal of hand wringing, many in the party will be secretly feeling relief that after two attempted coups, finally he will be going. Meanwhile, once Brexit has happened or as is more likely, partially happened, the people will wonder if it was really worth it. Had Jeremy actually followed his instincts and the party hadn’t blocked Brexit in parliament for two years, we wouldn’t have been having an election yesterday, and Labour would probably have had time to build to an election victory in 2022 over a largely tired Conservative Party led by Theresa May.
My party has only itself to blame for this result and sadly, many of its natural supporters will never vote for it again.
FWIW, we have similar “experts” on Trump over here. (Not that I’m a fan of trump. TBH, I don’t actually care about Trump. He’s America’s problem).
I imagine that it is straight projection, and it is your ‘friend’ who is the unpleasant reptile. That, you see, was Corbyn’s real crime-he was and is a man of principle, integrity and honour in a world dominated by Evil swine.
We’re both Americans who live in California. I’m originally from the UK, been here 35 years ago, the reptilian may be the same but may just have English relatives. The reptilian is actually quite a nice person with significant progressive leanings, not a MAGA type at all, so something’s got to him. I’m interested in this sort of thing because…
Primary season is just around the corner. I’m hoping the Democrats are boxing clever; the lack of a clearly identified front runner could be a sign of confusion in the ranks or it could be a deliberate strategy to keep the opposition guessing (because we all know what will happen once we have a candidate….).
If Labour had won, the Blairite Quislings would have defected, en masse, to a coalition with the Tories, because Corbyn is an ‘antisemite’, and the concerns, real or invented, of Jewish elites definitely outweigh any interests of the 99% of mere goyim and ‘self-hating’ Jews.
The turkeys have voted for Christmas, LOL. It’s like a non-stop belly laugh a minute tragic comedy playing out right before your eyes, a real popcorn moment. Brexit means an enormous privatisation of the NHS, hence why the Brexit diplomat/envoy to Washington DC quit, because everything the turkeys believe to be true about Brexit is, in fact, a pile of bullshit. A serious rude awakening awaits these turkeys. Brexit means an even more corporate Britain, more Amercanised than it already is. The Donald is rubbing his hands, and US corporates are going to make a killing at the expense of those who gave this madness the green light. A no deal Brexit is now very much on the cards. Ouch. I don’t think anyone, anywhere, has given one single rational argument that this is a good idea on any level whatsoever. Ooops, silly turkeys.
Some of the most brainwashed of the core Labour vote apparently hate Jeremy Corbyn because he’s supposedly a “rabid antisemite” (I heard this very quote on the radio this morning, some Northerner geting very hot and bothered, parroting lies as he has been successfully programmed to do by the Zionist controlled British media), when the truth is that JC is the most non-racist, pleasant, cool, calm and collected person you could ever imagine. How he kept his cool under such enormous pressure is testament to his strength. When that idiot shadow minister had his phone call recorded and broadcast for public consumption during the election, instead of hitting the roof and acting like 99% of us would, JC took it in his stride and acted in a way which I will never forget. It was a truly remarkable credit to his character. I will actively try to build this kind of coolness into my own character, because I lack it, so for that alone, thanks Jeremy.
If the British public truly understood what is going on in Israel in terms of the ongoing genocide of an oppressed, defenceless people, how Israel negatively influences British politics, how Israel is the primary reason why we are at war in the Middle East and all the other illegal war criminality we are involved in, they would see this man in a different light. That’s not to let the disgusting British Establishment off the hook, they are just as sick and barbaric, ditto the US establishment. But they don’t. That’s the brainwashing kicking in. It is only the fact that I researched 9/11 that led me to understand what is happening there. The British media does not educate the British public about it, instead it’s just one massive cover-up after the next of some of the most horrific crimes against humanity you could ever imagine in your darkest nightmares. Apparently being opposed to this makes YOU a racist. Ok, whatever. Keep your Satanic inversion techniques to yourself, thank you.
Those who make a living by covering up these gravest of war crimes in the criminal British media should hang their heads in shame. Those who have profited by portraying JC as an antisemite racist should do the same. You are a scourge on the human race. Hell awaits you.
“In October 1936, Jeremy Corbyn’s mother participated in the battle of Cable Street in defence of British Jews after British fascists had staged an assault on the area. Corbyn was raised in a household passionately opposed to antisemitism in all its forms.”
It’s quite clear that JC has continued his mother’s fight against fascists, and today the biggest fascists in the world are the Western nations, chiefly UK, US and Israel…..the unholy trinity of nations.
The media has shown all its might in these past few years, to the point where the poorest people of Britain have just elected a man who wouldn’t cross the street to piss on them if they were on fire, as opposed to a man who would do everything in his power to help them.
Excellent comment.
Indeed, excellent comment, but I must in all conscience mention the following, regarding your statement:
Paul Craig Roberts is an extremely rational man, and here is his rational argument from September last:
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/09/24/brexit-spiked/
I do urge people to read it. From an American, it’s really saying something important.
The issue is – quite unfortunately – tied to the masses. Or the mass. The mass can come up with stuff the one cannot. But it works both ways. The mass also could prevent any progress in the existence of Homo Sapiens by adhering to habits/rituals/programs that are killing/sickening/suiciding the one, the many and our Mother Earth – if the term ‘Mother’ is still allowed to be used.
The truth is always there. Today it comes from any of the many people simply speaking truth to mass. Mass is busy, though. With a gazillion of more important things than progressing itself out of the path that leads over the cliff. But the fact is, that there is only grass in most parts of the landscape before the actual drop off of the cliff.
The mass deems itself safe enough to not investigate the locations, where under the sod there is nothing but a lot of air/doom/death between columns of cliff. The camera captures scores of mass – dropping down the cliff way before they thought it could happen.
Yes, indeed. In general terms, that’s exactly the way it is.
Frankly, never has the Good Shepherd been more needed than now, and your comment points very clearly to the sheep involved.
But it seems harder than ever to find that Shepherd now. Some serious digging and thinking have to be done. Hanging around waiting won’t cut it any more.
Get it right, Mucho. Some of the turkeys voted for Christmas, but most of them voted for Hanukkah.
Mucho man.I enjoy reading your posts.If we are the 99 percent and they are the 1 percent,how are they getting in? How has the American been elected as PM ? Please get back on to the flat earth stuff soon, its more real.luego.
Here you go Marfanoid.
In a nutshell, to answer your first point, we need to appreciate that the reason they get in is because they are total geniuses when it comes to power. They are the masters, they’ve been developing systems of power for centuries and they are supremely intelligent. They have all the resources, they have no morals, no low is too low for them. They will do anything to hold onto their power. Anything. You have to hand it to them. Also, people are pretty stupid, we all are. Knowing that you are stupid makes you less stupid and less pliable, but the old phrase about it being easier to lie to people than to tell them they have been lied to is true.
I have a real flat earth treat for you here. You need to know the nuts and bolts of why people are questioning the validity of what we are told by NASA blah blah blah, I imagine you do. This is off the scale and will hopefully make you laugh and cheer as much as it did me.
This. Is. Fucking. Genius.
waykiwayki Freiburg undercover 1: The Famous Astrophysicist
The nuts and bolts of why people are questioning the shape of the Earth.
The Science of Flat Earth
The Universe is more like an organism than anything else. It grows.
“Those who make a living by covering up these gravest of war crimes in the criminal British media should hang their heads in shame. Those who have profited by portraying JC as an antisemite racist should do the same. You are a scourge on the human race. Hell awaits you.”
Yes.
¡No pasarán!
All you lucky workers are going to get a £78:00 a year tax cut. Rejoice.
the hanging chads have been plucked picked
not counted
collected swept clean soon too bee incinerated
holed
or not as the case maybe.
care not who makes the laws of england
for the power lieth in the foreign lands called the empire city of london.
batten down the hatches bitches
burgs and ice bergs ahead
I thought that this was fairly obvious and it was predicted some time ago by George Galloway.
For me, the disgraceful treatment by the PLP of Chris Williamson sums it all up. Chris lost his deposit in Derby North, which just goes to show that people tend to vote tribally or on issues (in this case Brexit) rather than for individuals. His seat is now in the hands of the Tories. A perverse sort of justice for Chris, perhaps.
I thought he was the best of Corbyn’s lieutenants, but was deselected from what I can make out on the flimsiest of grounds, essentially for not demonstrating sufficient fealty to the Israel lobby that now appears to dominate the PLP.
I don’t like the Conservative Party, but Labour is equally cancer stricken. I was going to hold my nose and vote Labour, but my MP is Jon Ashworth. His unguarded comments to his Tory pal the other day left me unable to register even him with my vote.
I took the advice of Peter Hitchens and stayed home with a cup of tea instead.
Well said.
I did the same.
John2o2o
Can I suggest that you fuck off and go play with your back stabbing friends. You lost the right to comment about anything when you decided not to vote and your actions and other thick twats like you, let the Tories win and have given them a green light to shaft all those who are helpless and can’t keep their heads above water. You should be ashamed…. and I hope you live long enough to suffer what they have in store for you.
And NOTE to Off G.. please stop this reptile from posting here again.
“other thick twats like you”
Thee’s your problem right there and the reason you lost both the referendum and this election.
Labour have found out the hard way that if they don’t deselect their treacherous MPs, the voters will do it for them.
Forced into a choice between re-electing the Tories and a rigged second referendum, they wisely chose the former. Quite possibly to their own and all of our detriment, but until Labour start listening to the voters, especially their old working class, small-c conservative core then they will continue to lose.
They need policies that the voters want, not policies that they think they know are best.
You are so right, but loons like Hodge see it the other way. This morning she blamed Corbyn for the loss of her fellow Zionist assets rather than examine their tratourus support for a criminal foreign power over the wishes of the electorate.
“Dame Hodge”, as Norman Finkelstein so beautifully labels her.
“There is nothing like a dame…….” South Pacific.
Rodgers was the best composer in the world, but I doubt the average American is thinking of this Hodge specimen when the word, “dame” comes up…
Let’s not get carried away here and discount the possibility that this election was rigged too. Florida 2000 started the current fashion – which means our manipulators now have 19 years of further experience and practice – and the owners of our mainstream media have not gone away or died yet. I no longer trust our electoral system, but one does what one can; so I will stop voting only when irrefutable proof of serious tampering emerges. Perhaps WikiLeaks will have something interesting to say on that soon.
With respect, Maggie, I wonder if you realise how that discourse speaks volumes about you?
@Maggie: What did you expect him to do? Go and vote for someone who very publicly and on record, stabbed Jeremy Corbyn in the back? Consciously abstaining from voting is as much a part of democracy as voting. You seem to have a limited understanding of democracy, and no understanding of freedom of speech.
Except for a very occasional glance at and post elsewhere, Off-Guardian is the only sort-of-news and opinion site I fairly consistently look at any more, for two reasons: (1) it actively censors nobody beyond its very few “community standards” and not consistently even then, and (2) it is one of a rapidly decreasing range of sites that combine mostly-interesting editorial comment from a broad, mostly radical viewpoint with, most importantly, pretty good BTL (pseudo-)anonymity for those who want it. The world, real and virtual, is full of people who bait others, both for fun and for profit. Or in some cases because they’re sickos. If you can’t handle that why not join a knitting circle instead? There are only two stitches and each stich is both, depending on which way you look at it. Very unchallenging, very sedate, no room for disruption, either of opinions or behavior.
That said, simply in order to stay accessible in an increasingly hegemonic world, the Off-Guardian may in the future find it advisable to link but distance its A and B TL components.
That’s why Labour lost. The deplorables north of Watford were just taken for granted.
– They’ve got nowhere to go. What are they going to do, vote Tory? Hahahahaha!
Just like the Democrats in flyover country.
Blair makes a comeback?! When, of course he should be on trial in the Hague!
Actually, he should have swung long ago.
OMG, the King across the Water. “Will ye no’ come back again?”
I checked with google, what had become of the last “Young Pretender”:
Very appropriate for such a loyal European.
“Blair makes a comeback?!”
Yes – it makes a nonsense of that famliar Western sneer against totalitarian states that always have the same faces at the top.
The elites are laughing at us. Let’s spend our time ripping Labour a new one. Makes total sense.
Friday the thirteenth: nightmare on Downing Street.
In a result as predictable as it has ever been since we had universal suffrage: the capitalist state and its finance-capital market economy was duly elected. It is the only result on the ballot sheet there has ever been. Only, for many, it was the wrong brand of market social metastases. Nonetheless, we are now ever more firmly constituent members and automatic subjects of market dynamics and market forces. The interpenetration of the globalised market economy and our market society continues to deepen. The unrest and dissension are clear: so who is now ready for a more radical politics that breaks the association of the natural person – that’s us – from the quasi-legal fictive person – that’s the state – of the incorporated neoliberal globalised market economy we have elected to become?
Votes do not only count when we win. We enter into a term-contract to devolve our self-responsibility and power of attorney to the newly inaugurated state: win or lose. Our ability to make all but the most mundane decisions is consensually and consequently past to the state legislature regardless. For the next five years we are its intentionally self-disempowered constituent elements. We are the state’s automatic subjects in its extended form as the inter-subjective market economy society. All we retain is the co-responsibility for our absolving actions.
It is the definition of childhood that we are not deemed mature enough to decide for ourselves. That intentional power has to be passed to the legal-rational authority of proxy adults. For five years we are the orphaned children self-abandoned to a psychotic clown …played not by Joachin Pheonix …but by Bojo. But the joke is on us for entering into this Faustian adoption agreement once again.
Reality is not individually, but socially constructed. Political reality is a state-social agreement to enter into the Social Contract by the co-constitution of the General Will. The General Will we have elected the Tories to direct. Already the blame and acrimony are rife: but in the period of reflection – will any of it be self-reflection? Deferring our will to be a co-constituent of the Tory directed General Will is self-defeating and infantalising when we are perfectly capable of making our own decisions. Which is the only hallmark of socio-political maturity and self-responsibility.
Whatever our psychotic proxy adults and pseudo-carers decide in the next few years we are a co-constituent party to. Everything. The hyper-individual excuse will be “I did not vote for that”. Actually, we did. It is not until we can turn the light of reflection on ourselves and take responsibility for the decisions we made that we can also decide to change the way we do things. By organising for a more direct rule of co-equality would be a good start. Which means an intentional break from the Parliamentary cretinism of electoral politics for good. Unless you actually like the shit end of the infantalising stick? Or want to bitch and complain about how the otherised and projected you has ruined your party for the whole five years. Which is another hallmark of childish immaturity.
Electoral politics is dead in the UK. Surely everyone can see this now? We just gave a huge majority to a group with a bare grasp of literacy; who could barely string the pre-school slogan “Get Brexit done” together; who produced a glossy holiday brochure, full of nice pictures, as a no-policy manifesto; and whose idea of a campaign was to keep Bojo from making a major gaffe for long enough to get elected. Which we duly did. And in a lesser of two evils unpopularity contest: the other candidate in the mock Presidential election proved resoundingly worse.
Yes, blame the Establishment and media smears: but the only real loss is politics itself. At no point at all were any real world political issues unearthed. Except in the most fleeting and superficial way. Perhaps there can be a turn to real in-depth root of the root radical and revolutionary politics to usurp the Spectacle of market socialism? And get rid of Conservative neoliberal authoritarianism and austerity at the same time? Neither are fit for purpose. Not if we ever want a universal-emancipatory humanist and ecological politics organised around sustainable degrowth. We might not want such: but it will be the only necessary means to survive in the 21st century. If we want to survive. Which I remain unconvinced of thusfar: because it will require a monumental self-sacrifice and self-alignment with freedom the vote can never allow.
The capitalist state is the real problem. The market economy society – reliant on eternal expansionism – is the real problem. The invisibilised inner logic of self-maximising exponential accumulation – as the main driver of the market societies contingent social welfare – is the real problem. The neoliberal globalisation and perpetual expansionism of capitalist accumulation is the real problem. The late cancer stage of capitalist extractivism is the real problem. The cancerous capitalist imperialism over all life is the real problem. We are the real problem if we cannot break free of the vicious vortex dynamics and death spiral. We need to break from and end capitalism: before it ends us.
That humanity can never be fully human while it is infantalised and irresponsibly wedded to capitalist state sanctioned accumulation is at the root of the root of the real set of problems we face in the 21st century. The state and the reinstatement of the state is the addictive cycle we have to break in order to evolve. Maybe this will become clear in the period of sober reflection on what we have just done? And how we achieved it by abdicating self-responsibility in an Americanised pantomime unpopularity contest? Abdicated to a fact and policy-free psychotic clown. Blame the press. Blame the voters. But if we really want to see who lost this election: let us look in the mirror of self-responsibility? And BTW: we would have lost even more if we won. Only perhaps the smallest consolation is that the radical result may become self-apparent now …and lead to positive change in reaching maturity? Wherein a bourgeois market socialism victory it would not.
Did any of your readers experience evidence of an exit poll? I didn’t, and I commented on that at the time. So I was surprised when I got home to see so much discussion on the BBC of exit poll results. The Laura Kuensberg story seems compatible with this, too. So how did they know?
Ipsos MORI is one of many exit pollsters in the UK. They ask every xth exiting voter at the same polling stations in the same 150-odd constituencies (boundary changes, etc., excepted) in every election using a kind of simulation of the actual voting process (unmarked papers into an unviewed box, counted back at the head office). Postal votes are assessed by estimations based on continuous monthly constitueency surveys, the actual number of postal votes received, etc. So if you’ve never seen any of their workers at this election, short of your moving or a boundary change or similar you won’t see any at the next and, even if you have, you only have a 1/xth random(ish) of getting exit polled at any. Ipsos MORI have a website and a Twitter account where they chatter on about it. They do weight by last election/s’ constituency marginality, etc. There are plenty of rivals (ICM, YouGov, etc), so enough of any conspiracy bullshit: they don’t rig anything as they have a vested interest in getting it right. Good luck to them with that. None of the exit pollsters are permitted to release any results during the last y days of hustings until the actual polling stations close. There may well be conspiracies in some elections, past present or future, and not all of the published pollsters are fully transparent, but there is no clear indication that there are serious, persistent irregularities in any.
I was taking this reply seriously until I reached “so enough of any conspiracy bullshit”. It didn’t answer the question, nor did it explain how Laura Kuensberg knew about the postal voting. If a small number of people are noticing that there was no exit polling when they normally experience exit polling when they vote, then it is perfectly rational to ask a wider sample of people. That follows the same principles that trained pollsters follow, and the same principles that I followed as a QC engineer. If people had been answering positively that they had seen exit pollsters, then that would have suppressed any “conspiracy theory”. Not answering the question, but merely describing a system that we all know about anyway is a standard cover-up technique.
Your initial post was, in full:
So, assuming the “they” referred to someones plural, whereas if you meant LK the pronoun would be “she”, I (more or less) answered it with reference only to Ipso MORI: they use monthly surveys and past form to arrive at probabilities for the number of postal votes received and incorporate that into their actual exit results.
You responded:
Re exit polling, it did answer the question. If you want a fuller and more exact answer, check the info on the Ipso MORI web site, or if it’s inadequate, ask them.
So now, suddenly, your “they” (previously mentioned) and and your “she” (previously unmentioned) are both involved, apparently ignoring the fact that you are insidiously conflating two different processes: exit polling and actual polling.
But, briefly, because you’re not worth more, Keunsberg was referring to the opening and verification of postal votes, but not their counting, which takes place along with the actual count following the closing of the polls. You will find full details of that process in a 45 page pdf, with supporting flowchart and spreadsheet, on the Electoral Commission web site, including details of how the party representatives and others present must be shown those results (which are also available to the public after the results are finalized) so that they may challenge any decisions (but obviously excluding sight of the “secret ballot” papers themselves, which are separate from the verification documents in the package sent to those requesting a postal vote).
As far as I know, there have been no legal challenges to the verification process although they are expressly permitted in the aforementioned ruling document should any of the observers encounter any evidence of irregularities.
As you seem not to know, I suggest you ask Kuensberg how she obtained her information: was it the result of individual electoral officials breaching the confidentiality requirements of the electoral process and passing actual ballot information onto candidates or just some of her political chums seeking to leak their doorstep experience without losing their anonymity.
As for your sudden introduction of “If a small number of people are noticing that there was no exit polling when they normally experience exit polling when they vote” (with no citation or any indication of what “small” means). Ipso MORI field only about 150 teams across 50,000 polling station, about 0.3% of the total. Of those, say as many as 10% (?) changed since the 2015 election, i.e. at as many as 15 (?) of its polling stations voters might have noticed a difference. And how many of those do you imagine would have given it a second thought? And how many of those second thoughts would have correlated the absence of exit poll teams with, for them, a minor relocation of venue? And given that a second thought?
I suggest you stick to your day job, which appears to be that of a quietly addling, retired QC engineer with a penchant for political conpiratorial theory of the bullshit kind.
Just as well you stopped there, as that’s verging on the bizarrely addled.
I’ll stop with an apology to the exit pollsters. Sometime in the last few weeks, on this topic, I was somewhat dismissive of some of their techniques. A subsequent conversation with an old colleague has since led me to research that a little and I now see I was reprinting yesterday’s newspaper. Over the last few years they have significantly upgraded their toolkit.
Oh dear. Laura Kuensberg’s information wouldn’t just have been private information. The use of ‘they’ was legitimate for that situation. My point was that your reply turned to insults and innuendo, which greatly devalued your explanation. I had no ‘conspiracy theory’ – I was just checking. The lack of confirmation of exit polling plus the personal attacks which ensued is reasonable grounds for suspicion. If everything was done correctly and by the book, then fine, but in that case you’ve done a pretty good job in discrediting it.
Same leader as in 2017, pretty much the same policies except for one – Brexit.
The thought of a rigged second referendum went down like a cup of cold sick pretty much everywhere.
Watching the contortions of the bitter Blairites and Graun columnists reveals they won’t win until they realise that 3 years of calling your core supporters ignorant, racist gammons does not a Parliamentary majority make and that they think all they need to win next time is a Bliar 2.0.
I blame them for inflicting a reactionary Boris government on the rest of us and that Labour party deserves to die.
That’s what you get for being the British equivalent of the German SPD. People have figured out that Labour as much as the SPD are FAKE LEFT ‘parties’. These preposterous excuses for a TRUE LEFT party deserve not even 1%. Their party members are woven of the same irredeemable brown shirt fabric and have absolutely no other reason than to bind minds to a certain way of thinking and acting.
THERE IS NO LEFT IN THE U.K.
Where is there a TRUE LEFT community of dedicated to the well being of the working and poor classes party leaders and membership base? Corbyn needs to go and eff himself after he has allowed the Effists to eff him.
We live in a time in which a politician must be – MORE THAN EVER BEFORE – aware that his life is worth the used chewing gum on a kid’s bike in India, when it comes to stand up against the Christian Fascists. IF there are no attempts on your life – you are definitely NOT standing up against the military-industrial-petroleum-pharmaceutical-disease-propaganda-torture-exploitation-brainwash-impunity-and-above-the-law-of-the-land cartel.
Get the Eff out of the way if you don’t have the dedication a Mahatma Ghandi had. If you are not willing to lose your life like Kennedy, you will be unfit to rip the present set of MoFo’s a large number of new Assholes.
Oh, and yes, before I forget. Do you know who Greta Thunberg is?
People are sold effing climate change for the Fascism that is on its way to make the whole planet a happy Christo-Judeo Fascist Überland. Planet SPACEBALL.
In other words, cangratulations to the people living on the piece of rock that comes after a little bit of water roughly west of Europe. You now have to get your shit together quickly and – if you are willing to continue the peaceful, democratic attempt to bring about change – come up with a COLLECTIVE TRUE LEFT movement. This is the time that makes ‘Das Kapital’ look like children’s literature.
I’ll do it. But there has to be something in for all the Felines and Animals in general. And Plants.
Your choice. Planet Spaceballs or a Blue Gem in the lovely vastness of the Universe?
“Oh, and yes, before I forget. Do you know who Greta Thunberg is?”
– A child who is being exploited to serve the interests of a political lobby group.
a lobby “group” maybe, but political? these people don’t do politics. Politics is for the little people. they aren’t even a “lobby group”; they’re the man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. They’re as impotent as he was, too; we just don’t realise it yet. They do
Not only that. That on top of the abuse that is taking place. The question here however is, what kind of urgency the erratic climate should have on the list of priorities of those who have the means to change things in a whiffy.
I am so frustrated right now – observing a certain resignation about what just happened in the U.K., as if it would be a soccer, or cricket game the U.K. did not win.
There was no time left when the choice was there to change the course of HMS Britannica. The one spot that Greta Thunberg holds rightfully, is the one of bringing to attention to a larger number of human inhabitants, that there is a lot of trouble down the road. Right now. Conspiracies, politics and corruption left aside, humanity is going where it never went before.
That includes the eagerness to go to war with China and Russia – as the two are no longer available as individual enemies. And Iran. And Syria. And Venezuela. The West has created a formidable alliance that can already no longer be conventionally be defeated. Nor with nuclear weapons. But there are people in control now that are convinced that they have to do it – to self-fulfill whatever prophecy they are slaves to.
We had no time to not have Jeremy Corbyn residing at Downing Nº 10.
Bad day for Julian Assange, bad day for anyone who believed a bunch of gangsters would not be allowed to inflict 10 years of austerity on us, and get awy with it.
Well, the Brits have chosen to fuck themselves – obviously it will be impossible to contain the
schadenfreude when electoral self-harmers are punished for their monumental stupidity.
And believe me quite a few of them will suffer.
Yes most of them that voted for the slob.and all the leave voters who were glad to see the end of neo liberalism from the nasty EU, thank fuck we won’t see anymore of that will we? I thought after years of the fascist thatcher, people would never vote for it again, how wrong I was, anyone in their 70s will be lucky to see a Labour government again
So it’s all the fault of the voters then, and not in any way the fault of the Labour leadership?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_L%C3%B6sung
well it’s the people who put these fascists in place, make of that what you will
It’s all just a big game!
It may only be a big game, trouble is it’s always us who are the losers, and people can’t resist having another go.
And people die but it’s still a game for the rich
I voted Labour last time. I did not vote this time, because the democratic will of the people had been ignored for over 3 years. Despite this I was saddenned, when I heard the exit poll at 10pm last night, and went to bed.
It was however a win for Democracy. Most people are not that politically motivated, but what they can’t stand is Betrayal. The Lib Dems suffered the same fate after 2012, because they reversed All their promises and principles, when they came to a power sharing agreement with The Tories. From that point onwards I refused to vote Lib Dem again, for that very reason. I can’t stand betrayal either.
Ian Lavery who lost his Labour seat explains the situation precisely.
BLYTH VALLEY
“It’s Brexit’: Ian Lavery blames second referendum offer for Labour losses”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftO16FI83Ow&feature=youtu.be
Tony
I agree Tony. I think the result was entirely predictable and Labour have only themselves to blame.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Congratulations to Boris Johnson on his great WIN! Britain and the United States will now be free to strike a massive new Trade Deal after BREXIT. This deal has the potential to be far bigger and more lucrative than any deal that could be made with the E.U. Celebrate Boris!
Woops !! There goes your beloved NHS.
We want Dollar General! We don’t want choice we want fatty ground beef meatloaf and apple pie and Hershey bars. We don’t want bank holidays, we want Thanksgiving, that’ll do us. We want guns, freedom, glorified sheds and caravans to live in. We don’t want “welfare”, we want to stand on our own feet and not have to pay for anyone worse off than us. We want to climb to the top and kick those below is. We want God on our side.
Oh, and we want a bloated security state and everlasting war.
Fair play; we already have that.
As someone standing on the outside of it and looking in, I am not the slightest surpriced and the rethoric is a bit amusing to be honest, Labour wacked them self, by giving half of the Brits the middle finger, and when the moron Bozo the Clown was crystal clear, what else could happen, the Brits told the world what they wanted thru the voute on Brexit.
They, the Labours lost even and despite the massive attack from the always rotten to their core MSM, from hysterical dooms day propaganda to anti-semetism, of course, everything they had of ammo was thrown into this, and Labour lost mainly because of been an treasonous bitch, not that it would make any difference but they lost, and like in Norway, the labout party have since the 80s become an rightwinged rich kids party, rmpant nepotism, cleptoratic, warmongreling, imperial asslikers, globalism, neo-liberalism and run by f….. that never had any desent job and is by large ignorant morons, and lies about everything apart from the issues they fake, and have like labour in britanian simply ignored their own people and karma is indeed a bitch sometimes when you lett the fringes of sanity and poltics run your program/s, labour ended up with reaping what they them self had sawn, I in an sense dont blame GoreBin, but why was He so god dammed week, we want f…. with balls, not sqirmish asslikers, people whom do what they told and have been given the mandate to do, fight for the Brits, when given the direction, we exspected You to fight for it, not undermine it, and that goes to the whole Party, and this rant is also to the Tories as well, but they are in that part more locky, not in any way better, because Labour crashed them self.
Bozo the clown is just that, an clown and the neo-liberalistic forces have this creep by whats left if an balls, and He will dance when they squice, and lie when they say He must.
The problems.
As far I can judge, Britain will be the 53 state of the imperial banana republic, the documents about NHS was not an acsident, but the truth about the reality Bozo the Clown have jumped onto and will drag Britain into, since been an Moronikan Bitch the neo-lberalism will endure and take what should rightfully be in Britain to go outside, more or less, legalise plundering of the British people.
The imigration issue was a no no from both.
The wars so.
The austeritys was not mentioned.
Etc.
Etc.
And Labours Blairtes won the lection along with the neo-cockservatives in the Torys, so all in all, Britain, witch vouted for independence will not get that, because of Bozo the clown have sould His soul to the City of London witch means the downfall will continue, the Labour party if its going to survive must be much, much tougher, and the pathetic sucking up to the neo-liberalistic agenda must end.
I am not that intresting in debating various issues when the problem is that nobody is honest, the economic issues arent debated, the EUs hypes are just hypes, the Scots are dumber than what I could imagine by drooling something about staying in something they think is an democratic union, huh, what on earth are they thinking, if thinking at all.
Hurmf, I feel sorry for the Brits, to me, both where scumbags, the only difference is, that GoreBin lost because of betraying their own people, period, and Labour lost because half of them ignored the British people, they made the victory for the Tories easy, where as Bozo, was persistent, Labout vigled and ended up with been untrsutwurthy, and mumbling, anwering questions with nonsense, took the alegations without fighting back, and generally lacked the thing people wanted, an spine.
But again I hope that I am wrong about whats coming, and self determination and local rule, isnt possible if you become an rim state of the imperial banana republic, other than just another pathetic bitch, rubbed and raped to oblivion.
Be watchfull Brits and never give up the fight for Britain, that, isnt over, the real deal is what comes.
Yeah, intresting times, indeed. ( hehe, its an ancient Chines curse)
Cheers.
At least, you are out of the plauge EU, and that alone is never the less an start, the rest is up to you Brits.
peace
I always thought that Corbyn was a good backbench MP; but never a qualified leader for the Labour Party. In the vicious light, the glare of UK electoral politics, he was found wanting. I think he did his best, only his best wasn’t good enough. That’s not really is fault, but the fault of the ‘left’ and Labour that there was really no one better suited or qualified for the job around. More than media bias, which is, I think, a dangerous ‘excuse’, the question why the left hasn’t produced better and more competent leaders, needs to be addressed, urgently.
It’s not as if the Tories have been better, only their failures are hidden and tolerated by the UK’s political culture to a degree that’s rather impressive and deeply depressing at the same time.
My concern is that traditional social democracy, or Labourism, may have run its course in UK politics, as has traditional Conservatism. What seems to be emerging is something ‘new.’ A form of ‘National Social’ political movement, where ‘welfare’ and ‘social justice’ are not so much linked to ‘class’, but rather to ‘identity’ and ethnicity. One could see the triumph of the Scotttish National Party in this ‘social national’ light too.
Remember 2017.
Same leader, same policies.
It’s Brexit.
Simples.
The pundits glee was apparent from the get go…..2 results in and they were extrapolating the demise of Labour and ultimately their goal Corbyn and thus it proceeded. The desired result to allow the prepared script. The odd expert pointing out that the Brexit factor had shifted votes in leave seats, clearly seen by Brexit
Party votes and very little increase in Tory votes. The anti-Corbyn Labour representative talking head saying that the factor had been nobody liked Corbyn. Clearly if you’ve been demonising the man since he arrived…. there is going to be a sizeable negative from that…..were they necessarily Labour supporters…..or floating voters. This was revenge for the establishments embarrassment at the referendum and the last election…..their plate of hate eaten in full view!
Jeremy Corbyn was weak in his responses to the fake anti-semitism and the fake Cold War 2.0 Russiagate charges furiously put about by the secret police, their think tank cut-outs and media mouthpieces. Here also is a good GrayZone article on the smearing of Corbyn:
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/08/us-uk-military-intelligence-apparatus-destroy-jeremy-corbyn/
Corbyn and his supporters should have forthrightly denounced all of the smears from the very beginning, and not only destroyed their substance but also exposed the perfidy of their sources, including the Israel lobby, MI6, the Atlantic Council and all the rest, but he didn’t. Instead he went along with the hounding of Chris Williamson out of the BLP; he opposed Brexit (sotto voce); and he backed down on NATO and Trident (as stated in the Labour manifesto). He essentially capitulated to the Blairites and can never hold his head up high in waging a good fight.
The Cold War 2.0 smearing is what any other mild progressives elsewhere can expect when running in bourgeois elections (eg, as is happening now to Sanders or Gabbard in the US). Fake Russiagate and/or anti-semitism smearing is being globalised as SOP to push back against any attempts, no matter how mild and pallid, to oppose imperialist wars and depredations, or the ravages of neoliberal austerity, privatisations, upward wealth transfers, and all the accompanying social pathologies that have decimated most capitalist countries over the last 40 years. From the US to the UK, and back for the 2020 US elections and anywhere in between, the Russiagate cancer is metastasising.
Labour, like the bourgeois Democrats in the US and social democratic parties elsewhere, never fail to disappoint. Labour didn’t deserve a vote this time round because never attempted to draw even a crude class line, for example by forthrightly saying to hell with the Anglo/Franco/German imperialist club of the EU or for the abolition of that feudal relic the monarchy, as distinct from putting up a shopping list of reforms that Corbyn and the BLP knew very well could never be fulfilled under EU rules. So to hell with the BLP. Sorely needed is a workers party that properly represents working class interests, one that has no truck with being ‘responsible’ guardians of the treasury benches or faithful administrators of the capitalist state.
True.
The Australian Labor Party is worse, lacking even a Corbyn. The current ALP line (repeated to me by a member) was that former (relentlessly smeared) leader Bill Shorten was “unelectable”. (Where have we heard that one before?)
The party power brokers now think his very mildly social democratic programme was “extreme”. So the current leader prostrates himself to the coal industry and professes to think that such a position is “not inconsistent” with action on climate change.
The utter debasement of Labor politics could hardly go further…or could it?
Every word you typed above is true. Thanks for saving me the effort of posting my own comment here!
The result is both complex and awfully simple at the same time. In essence, as I’ve said before, the election was primarily a second referendum, with everything else pushed into the background. The big difference being it wasn’t an election where all the votes carried equal weight and every vote counted. It was a referendum, but one ‘magicked’ by the awfrul first past the post system of counting votes, which translates into the scales being manipulated or, ‘rigged.’
The Tories only received about 1% more votes than at the last election which they ‘lost.’ They only got about 43% of the votes cast in the UK. So, it’s difficult to see how one can honestly call this a ‘landslide’ or a massive mandate for their version of Brexit.
What’s significant is the collapse of support for Labour in their traditional northern heartland, which were also the areas that voted for Brexit during the referendum. Labour has paid a terribly price for not having a coherent and effective European strategy because the party was so finely balanced between contradictory views about what that strategy should be. Sitting on the fence looks like confusion and chaos to lots of people. Was Labour for or against the European Union?
It didn’t help that Corbyn’s strongest card, his moral standing in opposing Blairism and the wars, was severely undermined by the successful way he was smeared as a rotten anti-semite. He and his teams reaction and strategy for dealing with this smear campaign was absolutely awful; ineffective and weak.
Why are the left so poor at election strategy, so inefficient and ineffective? Why is the leadership of the left so poor? I suppose they don’t call the Tories the ‘Ruling Classs’ for nothing?
Given the UK’s political culture, as it is configured, Boris Johnson was a far more effective player than Corbyn. He’s more articulate, confident and has charisma to burn. One could of course have said pretty much the same about… Mussolini!
Perhaps the ‘left’ is doomed in British politics for a long time to come? The economy, society and culture have changed a lot over the last few decades. The Tories are now emerging as a kind of National Social party, with substantial ‘working class’ support, whilst Labour has been losting ‘working class’ support for a long time.
Perhaps what’s needed is radical realignment of all the non-Tory parties, the parties that really represent the ‘split majority’ of the country?
So one had an election where Labour didn’t seem to understand what was happening and respond to it properly and effectively. It was two elections in one. A ‘presidential’ one between two very different candidates and a second referendum rolled together; yet the left and Corbyn weren’t fighting it like that and what’s worse, didn’t even see it like that and respond effectively to the challenge, compared to the Tories.
Finally, it’s not enough to blame it all on the media. Trump showed that it’s possible to actually turn the media’s bias to one’s electoral advantage and he’ll do it again; only the left seem not to understand any of this or capitalise on the mass of discontent out there. That’s probably why the future is… National Social.
You might think so. But the LibDems hate the Labour Party more than they hate the Tories. As they proved by going into coalition with the Tories in 2010.
And as they proved again by declaring in advance that they would not go into coalition with Labour if the latter was the biggest party. (Admittedly, they also said they would not go into coalition with the Tories, either, this time). This was when Jo Swinson was going through her “I would make a better Prime Minister” fantasy period.
And clearly, the Lib Dems are not going to join forces with the Brexit Party, for example.
Think on, as they say in those northern
LabourTory heartlands.Welcome to America
this hits labour correctly for its anti-democratic stance over brexit:
https://www.thefullbrexit.com/why-labour-lost
Good read, spot on.
Sorry – we the people failed to believe in hope
Sorry to all the people who believed and have been crushed.
The CITY Won the British people LOST. .
The postwar social democratic covenant has been betrayed by its grandkids and the ancient powers finally after 40 years of relentless pressure – Thatcherism Triumphant.
Her NuLabInc bastard children colluded. It feels like 1983 without the SDP breakaway spoilers – replaced this time by the Brexit liars instead.
The brexit party spoiler by only standing in seats tories could win worked. and nicked deluded Labour voters who bought their lies.
Bannons mega US billionaires and their alt- rightist Faragists have set us on a path of corporatist future – we will be owned and judged by them – their modern slaves.
Low turnout added to damage. The winter election ploy worked.
The grand children and great grand children of the postwar social democratic state – destroyed their ancestral legacy.
They bought into the prewar elitist Downton Abbey elitist worshipping idyllic lie.
The price will be high for their grand kids.
The Gauntlet was mighty – Pompeo promised it and they threw EVERYTHING at it.
Propaganda and postal ballot stuffing immense – there is no way IDS could have won otherwise.
The mudslinging stuck.
The gaslighting worked.
The HARD brexit is a zombie arisen.
The Trump Trade deal will make us their 51st state.
We will be a Singapore on Thames.
The Tax havens will remain.
The rich will get richer.
The NHS will succumb.
The EU will not make it easy and many of their settled peoples will be packing now – their decades of being British taxpayers but not able to vote means they have been sacrificed.
Floods of poor 3rd world refugees will be imported to do the dogsbody work. The 21st Century Windrush will be bigger as we need more younger people to look after our old – the racists voters have guaranteed their own worst nightmare.
Sorry for us in England & Wales.
Goodluck Scotland the battle for independence will be as ugly with all the same forces lined up against you.
To everybody who believed – Sorry
Sorry sorry sorry.
sorry, but whatabout labour’s refusal to accept the referendum result, the calling of people who voted leave as ‘thick’, the denial of representation and thereby democracy, the alignment with a foreign nation to call Corbyn for everything etc etc …. labour lost this election because it betrayed its working class roots – fullstop!!!!!!!!!!!
no full stop about it, Bob. labour also lost the election because of rampant, obvious bias and misinformation (lies and constant smears) in the media for the last 4 years. he had no chance against that level of corrupt, corporate interference.
So you voted leave to get away from neo-con policies, and voted and got……………………..well done, clever that,never mind we can vote them all out at the next election can’t we? Labour will not see power for over a decade, thanks mainly to the idiots who vote leave,” forgive them for they know not what they’ve done.”
Leavers did not have a choice of any other as soon as Labour abandoned their pledge to respect the referendum result.
Those stupid, racist gammons appear to value democracy more than you do.
If you’re kidding yourself this country works on democracy, then you are nothing but a fool
Bob et al.
Expect a proper dissection of the changing seats in the future when i and others get around to it.
The Labour wall didn’t collapse just because Lab voters all suddenly voted Tory.
There were other spoilers besides Brexit party – look at Ashfield/ Bassetlaw etc the NuLab zombies did their bit to stuff their erstwhile Labour party.
LibDems did their bit such as in London with ChukkaU and Sam G and miss moneypants ran cover campaigns with full media (LBC) support, to takeLab votes and let/kept Tories in.
This kind of spoilering along with dog whistle racism (can you IMAGINE Dianne? – look at dem gangsta grime yoof.., Corbyn the muslim lover …) AND ballot RIGGING using postal votes, GUARANTEED a labour defeat.
Here are the top 3 comments from the vote tory plastered Mail main article yesterday to show how the donkeys were led by the nose back to the cliff edge and then encouraged to jump.
1.st
Posh14a, Alfreton, United Kingdom, 1 day ago
Prayer for today. Please God save us from Corbyn. Amen
13,000 likes
2nd.
Steve, Bridgend, 1 day ago
‘Braving the weather ??? I”d walk over broken Glass to keep Corbyn away from number 10. !!’
10,500 likes
3rd
SlowDeath, None, United Kingdom, 1 day ago
The NHS is struggling because of mass immigration and that is down to Blair.
9,600 likes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7784125/Election-2019-Boris-Johnson-voters-cast-ballot.html?offset=2755&max=100&jumpTo=comment-491718413#comments-7784125
See ?
Many of us aren’t so easily fooled.
It is exactly reminiscent of 83.
It kicked off the big attacks on society after the austerity of mass unemployment, a jingoistic war. But what won it for them was the proto NuLabourites -the SDP – without whom Thatcher would not have got a second term.
These who remember will not forget the creation of the first national police force state in this country to fight the miners and unions.
We won’t forget that led to eventual resistance in the poll tax riots via anti-apartheid and various other causes including Greenham Common and womens lib movements starting with the RACE riots. Yeah. That.
The tory voting Glasto loving monied classes forget the free festivals that originated their Yurty playpens of fun. Some probably used to be these anarcho hippy types!
The moral corruption is advanced.
BUT…
Corbynism has succeeded in politizing a whole new generation of young – as we were in the 80’s – and boy I tell you, we are not going to let them carry the fight by themselves, for their emancipation causes and we won’t let them be railroaded by the next SDP/NuLabInc clones whose apparatchiks betrayed the movement with their visceral hatred of little socialist Jeremy, because they are so deluded by the presidential model of governance.
And we won’t let it take another generation to rise.
The Empire struck back but that just means a bigger battle is on its way.
But not right now – there is tea to be drunk, EU citizens to console and xmas to be had – then watch out – think the poll tax protests were bad? watch what happens when the HARD brexit approaches in January.
Things are gonna get… interesting.
Reminscent of Brecht. The Communist party of East Berlin opined:’The people let us down and should be dissolved and a new people should be elected.
Reminiscent of St.Augstine, ‘God give me celibacy and chastity, but not yet!
Reminiscent of Dick Richard Tuck ‘ American political consultant who stood for election … “The people have spoken, the bastards.”
I thought it was obvious enough that Labour’s capitulation to the London Reminers cost them their seats in the north and midlands ultimately the election itself.
Yes, we’re going to vote conservative, that’ll teach ’em.
I guess that’s the way democracy works?
I just hope barely functioning parts of the country (because of austerity) enjoy the next 5 years.
After all, who needs things like education, health care, secure homes or freedom from debt?
One things for sure, we are bound to see a few more bobbies on the beat.
Johnson’s new regime might not deliver the kind of nirvana working class voters are expecting and once it begins to dawn on them how stupid they have been things could start to become a bit ugly.
It won’t dawn on them, Harry. That’s not how this works. No lessons will be learnt. There’ll be no downtime for them to reflect on their choice. Not since the advent of 24 hour news has there been an opportunity for the herd to grope towards its own dangerous conclusions.
The media machine will keep them spinning in one distracted frenzy after another ad infinitum and ad nauseam.
I imagine media apparatchiks are already fashioning a new bogeyman as lies told about Corbyn begin to lose traction.
Jeremy will adopt the role of elder statesman becoming one of the few leaders who’s reputation does not go the same way as hate-figures like Thatcher, Blair, or the repulsive fridge-dweller, Boris Johnson.
Who will the Guardian award the next mantle to: the new enemy within?
To the establishment, left-of-centre ideology poses a grave threat to the totalitarian state and dissenting voices like Julian Assange, Jeremy Corbyn, or any number of left wing Jewish intellectuals must be crushed mercilessly to protect our flourishing corporatocracy.
Brexit will be done, democracy will be saved, shafts of light will penetrate the dystopia the British electorate have fashioned for themselves, the thick, self-harming fuck-wits.
There is a very easy way: tune out from 24hr news.
That is such a simple act of revolution. Do not watch Sky, BBC, ITv news. Stop reading the Sun, the Mail, the Mirror etc.
That is of course exactly what people did in 1979. And that was after “Farmer Jim”, who did not exactly come over as a red hot marxist.
And they kept on doing so, all the way up to 1997.
In the meantime, Labour tried going left, with Michael Foot, a Corbyn-like figure of his day, and just as badly smeared by the Tory press (mercifully, this was before the internet, or it would have been much worse).
So the Labour Party went right, towards Blair and Brown, by way of Kinnock & Hattersley, dropping unilateral disarmament and Clause Four along the way.
Not quite liking the way Blairism had panned out, Labour tried going left again, or at least part of it did. Another part of it had quite liked Blairism, and could not wait to get rid of this “backward looking” socialist. Add the complication of the EU and Brexit, and that’s how we got to where we are now.
Labour, whether Old, New/Blairite, or Corbynite, seems to have a uniquely deaf-ear when it comes to listening to the people. Rather unfortunate for a people’s party. I think it comes from a patronising, or at least a paternalistic attitude, of “we know best what’s best for you. Just cross the box here and we won’t bother you again”.
oops, “unilateral nuclear disarmament”, of course.
You will carry on losing with delusions like that.
Spare us your insincere apologies, the noisy Remainiacs were just an entitled minority.
Three years of demeaning your core voters made the difference.
Labour lost because of their Brexit “policy”, that is all.
dunmoanin’ dungroanin?
(Sorry). It’s not the end of the world. And IMO Labour have only themselves to blame.
Labour have only themselves to blame, but of course will blame anybody but themselves.
Here’s a ray of early morning sunshine for you: RUTH SMEETH has gone.
Don’t get too excited. It’s like that Greek myth about the Hydra. Cut one head and two more spring up.
and the rest of the Lobby’s fifth columnists. i think the lot of them lost their seats, as did the girly swot, Swinson. Rejoice in those small mercies. Bojo you can keep, though. no rejoicing here about that.
what’s fascinating now is the dichotomy of hearing the post morgen from labour politicians and pundits saying labour didn’t make their (Keir Starmer and the Blairites’) stand on brexit clear enough, but at the same time saying they should have come out more clearly for a 2nd ref.
i’ve already had to point out that the tories didn’t once argue for a 2nd ref, and here we are. seems a bit obvious to me.
their karma ran over their dogma
And don’t forget the awful the Jo Swinson!
Yes. only just picked up on that with all the focus on Corbyn. I’m absolutely delighted and fervently hope to never see nor hear of her again.
Ditto Chuka Umanna and Luciana Berger.
Oh joy. Expect The Atlantic Council/Open Society/NGOs/Human Rights groups will reward them all with lucrative positions.
Don’t mention Berger, you’ll be accused of being an antisemite.
Nah. It’ll all quietly go away now. Almost as if it was all a hoax.
Exactly Lundiel. I said the same 4-5 days ago on one of the other stories here.
I try and boycott the slime, but briefly watched a panel discussion on one of the commercial Aussie channels on the UK election last night.
And as surely as night follows day, one of the presstitutes on the panel started banging on how anti semitism had flourished under Corbyns leadership, and that there were ‘very good examples of this’.
Of course, this creature didn’t even state what these ‘good examples’ were, he didn’t say anything else, just sat there smirking.
Bastard.
The whole anti semitism hoax has been getting quite a lot of traction down here as well. But we’re in agreement – it’ll all just fade away now.
It will fade away, but not today, GP.
Radio National has handed the microphone to its usual line-up of Blairites (to represent the ‘left’): Blair himself, Alastair Campbell (of dodgy dossier infamy) plus Nick Rowley, a former adviser to Blair. Truly a broadly representative group! The latter two trotted out the usual ‘anti-semitic’ smear.
The only one missing was John McTernan, former private secretary to Blair and the ABC’s go-to ‘expert’ on ‘anti-semitism’ in UK Labour.
No effective internal mechanism exists by which the presstitutes responsible for broadcasting this propaganda for more than a year could be made accountable for their actions. The only avenue would be to cut off their money supply and hopefully end the careers of some of them. For the first time in my life, a cut to the ABC’s budget would not bother me.
So ‘Aunty’ was very happy to hand the mic to blood drenched war criminals and fifth columnists who should be sitting in jail cells in The Hague.
Which, as long as this depraved Empire still exists, will never happen.
Such is international justice.
I’m actually more depressed that any slight chance Julian Assange had of getting out of Belmarsh, or somehow avoiding extradition to the United States has now been snuffed out.
The only other way is to boycott the bastards, but as I said, I tend to slip up occasionally, and watch snippets of their bileous bilge.
Have a good weekend CM.
Yes, I’m a ‘self-hating’ Jew
How the fuck did Hodge keep her seat?
So the first Exit Polls agree with the pre-election Public Opinion Polls which agree with the Bookies Betting Odds: Labour is _likely_ to lose. Not until the final count shall we really know. But if Labour has lost again, then Cry the Beloved Country.
Good morning everybody. Welcome to your first American election.
Caitlin explains >>
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/12/13/someone-interfered-in-the-uk-election-and-it-wasnt-russia/
Yes, she’s excellent as ever on this.
….forgets to mention v high likelihood of rigging; election fraud. Caitlin is good for smoke & mirrors = absurd that 4m in poverty + food banks might have voted for more cruelty. Concealment of fraud = crime.
Totalitarian MO = Propaganda + Lies + Rigging Ballot Boxes.
”Exit, Poles!”
It was all a misunderstanding…
Where’s Flaxgirl / Petra / Persona #149 when she’s needed, to inform us that the whole GE was a hoax, all staged, no actual votes were cast, it’s all clever CGI nobody will die as a result?
Thanks for the laugh on what’s a fairly grim morning, Frank. :o)
She’s getting ready to receive her OBE
Petra has been over at Caitlin Johnstone blog quite a bit lately Frank.
You realise also that any slim chance Julian Assange would be released if Labour got elected is now Kaput.
I know that was clutching at straws… Sigh.
The NHS is royally screwed, and Julian Assange will be on a plane to the United States, unless he dies first.
I just took a quick squizz at the map about halfway down the page here and the most obvious sight is that despite the graun and associated neolib propagandists’ claims to the contrary, it was the selfish greedheads’ in the south who provided the bulk of Johnson’s support.
That won’t be the meme going out tho. The ‘official story’ will be that it was some pissed off about brexit in the midlands & further north types who decided to go tory to achieve a tory support less than 70% of tory support in the South-East who caused the win & Brexit without protections for Jo/Joe citizens.
Sir John Curtice actually does honest rigorous exit polls and the last two elections he has been almost spot on both times.
His work should be distinguished absolutely from the shonky and shoddy nonsense called ‘opinion polls’ which are often framed to drive ‘momentum’.
The sad reality Rhys is that many did not wish to listen to what Sir John was noting in the electoral map, namely that labour was losing traditional votes in seats it could not afford to lose – London only has so many seats, and all of London could have voted Labour, but under FPTP the Tories still win – we had six losses in wales, that means we are down to 22 labour seats from 28 in 2017, and, in 2017 we were very close to winning another two seats, so an absolute disaster, one many of us saw coming once the Party effectively became a remain party, one of several remain parties.
and yet, Chris, it will be argued (with a straight face, no less) that labour weren’t remain enough. nobody will engage in any self-reflection regarding brexit. the shrill cries from the awful Toynbee about how it’s all his fault have already begun… i wonder what the ever-changing labour party will become now..a return to the sunlit neoliberal warmongering days of blair, or a disappearing act up its own backside with all women shortlists and Jess “slasher” Philips as leader. can’t wait…
Jess Philips as leader would be tragedy, comedy and farce, all wrapped up in one gobby package. ssh! Whisper who dares! She is the sort of person who gets all-women shortlists a bad name.