168

The Art of Doublespeak: Bellingcat and Mind Control

Edward Curtin

In the 1920s, the influential American intellectual Walter Lippman argued that the average person was incapable of seeing or understanding the world clearly and needed to be guided by experts behind the social curtain.

In a number of books he laid out the theoretical foundations for the practical work of Edward Bernays, who developed “public relations” (aka propaganda) to carry out this task for the ruling elites.

Bernays had honed his skills while working as a propagandist for the United States during World War I, and after the war he set himself up as a public relations counselor in New York City.

There is a fascinating exchange at the beginning of Adam Curtis’s documentary, The Century of Self (above), where Bernays, then nearly 100 years old but still very sharp, reveals his manipulative mindset and that of so many of those who have followed in his wake.

He says the reason he couldn’t call his new business “propaganda” was because the Germans had given propaganda a “bad name,” and so he came up with the euphemism “public relations.” He then adds that “if you could use it [i.e. propaganda] for war, you certainly could use it for peace.”

Of course, he never used PR for peace but just to manipulate public opinion (he helped engineer the CIA coup against the democratically elected Arbenz government in Guatemala in 1954 with fake news broadcasts).

He says “the Germans gave propaganda a bad name,” not Bernays and the United States with their vast campaign of lies, mainly aimed at the American people to get their support for going to a war they opposed (think weapons of mass destruction).

He sounds proud of his war propaganda work that resounded to his credit since it led to support for the “war to end all wars” and subsequently to a hit movie about WWI, Yankee Doodle Dandy, made in 1942 to promote another war, since the first one somehow didn’t achieve its lofty goal.

As Bernays has said, “The American motion picture is the greatest unconscious carrier of propaganda in the world today.”

He was a propagandist to the end. I suspect most viewers of the film are taken in by these softly spoken words of an old man sipping a glass of wine at a dinner table with a woman who is asking him questions.

I have shown this film to hundreds of students and none has noticed his legerdemain. It is an example of the sort of hocus-pocus I will be getting to shortly, the sly insertion into seemingly liberal or matter-of-fact commentary of statements that imply a different story.

The placement of convincing or confusing disingenuous ingredients into a truth sandwich – for Bernays knew that the bread of truth is essential to conceal untruth.

In the following years, Bernays, Lippman, and their ilk were joined by social “scientists,” psychologists, and sundry others intent on making a sham out of the idea of democracy by developing strategies and techniques for the engineering of social consensus consonant with the wishes of the ruling classes.

Their techniques of propaganda developed exponentially with the development of technology, the creation of the CIA, its infiltration of all the major media, and that agency’s courting of what the CIA official Cord Meyer called in the 1950s “the compatible left,” having already had the right in its pocket.

Today most people are, as is said, “wired,” and they get their information from the electronic media that is mostly controlled by giant corporations in cahoots with government propagandists.

Ask yourself: Has the power of the oligarchic, permanent warfare state with its propaganda and spy networks increased or decreased over your lifetime.

The answer is obvious: the average people that Lippman and Bernays trashed are losing and the ruling elites are winning.

This is not just because powerful propagandists are good at controlling so-called “average” people’s thinking, but, perhaps more importantly, because they are also adept – probably more so – at confusing or directing the thinking of those who consider themselves above average, those who still might read a book or two or have the concentration to read multiple articles that offer different perspectives on a topic.

This is what some call the professional and intellectual classes, perhaps 15-20 % of the population, most of whom are not the ruling elites but their employees and sometimes their mouthpieces. It is this segment of the population that considers itself “informed,” but the information they imbibe is often sprinkled with bits of misdirection, both intentional and not, that beclouds their understanding of important public matters but leaves them with the false impression that they are in the know.

Recently I have noticed a group of interconnected examples of how this group of the population that exerts influence incommensurate with their numbers has contributed to the blurring of lines between fact and fiction. Within this group there are opinion makers who are often journalists, writers, and cultural producers of some sort or other, and then the larger number of the intellectual or schooled class who follow their opinions.

This second group then passes on their received opinions to those who look up to them.

There is a notorious propaganda outfit called Bellingcat, started by an unemployed Englishman named Eliot Higgins, that is funded by The Atlantic Council (a think-tank with deep ties to the U.S. government, NATO, war manufacturers, and their allies), and the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) (another infamous U.S. front organization heavily involved in so-called color revolution regime change operations all around the world), that has just won the International Emmy Award for best documentary.

The film with the Orwellian title, Bellingcat: Truth in a Post-Truth World, received its Emmy at a recent ceremony in New York City.

Bellingcat is an alleged group of amateur on-line researchers who have spent years shilling for the U.S. instigated war against the Syrian government, blaming the Douma chemical attack and others on the Assad government, and for the anti-Russian propaganda connected to, among other things, the Skripal poisoning case in England, and the downing of flight MH17 plane in Ukraine. It has been lauded by the corporate mainstream media in the west.

Its support for the equally fraudulent White Helmets (also funded by the US and the UK) in Syria has also been praised by the western corporate media while being dissected as propaganda by many excellent independent journalists such as Eva Bartlett, Vanessa Beeley, Catte Black, among others.

It’s had its work skewered by the likes of Seymour Hersh and MIT professor Theodore Postol, and its US government connections pointed out by many others, including Ben Norton and Max Blumenthal at The Gray Zone. And now we have the mainstream media’s wall of silence on the leaks from the Organization for the Prohibition on Chemical Weapons (OPCW) concerning the Douma chemical attack and the doctoring of their report that led to the illegal US bombing of Syria in the spring of 2018.

Bellingcat was at the forefront of providing justification for such bombing, and now the journalists Peter Hitchens, Tareq Harrad (who recently resigned from Newsweek after accusing the publication of suppressing his revelations about the OPCW scandal) and others are fighting an uphill battle to get the truth out.

Yet Bellingcat: Truth in a Post-Truth World won the Emmy, fulfilling Bernays’ point about films being the greatest unconscious carriers of propaganda in the world today.

Who presented the Emmy Award to the filmmakers, but none other than the rebel journalist Chris Hedges.

Why he did so, I don’t know. But that he did so clearly sends a message to those who follow his work and trust him that it’s okay to give a major cultural award to a propaganda outfit. But then, perhaps he doesn’t consider Bellingcat to be that.

Nor, one presumes, does The Intercept, the billionaire Pierre Omidyar owned publication associated with Glen Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill, and also read by many progressive-minded people.

The Intercept that earlier this year disbanded the small team that was tasked with reviewing and releasing more of the massive trove of documents they received from Edward Snowden six years ago, a minute number of which have ever been released or probably ever will be.

As Whitney Webb pointed out, last year The Intercept hosted a workshop for Bellingcat. She wrote:

The Intercept, along with its parent company First Look Media, recently hosted a workshop for pro-war, Google-funded organization Bellingcat in New York.

The workshop, which cost $2,500 per person to attend and lasted five days, aimed to instruct participants in how to perform investigations using “open source” tools — with Bellingcat’s past, controversial investigations for use as case studies…

…Thus, while The Intercept has long publicly promoted itself as an anti-interventionist and progressive media outlet, it is becoming clearer that – largely thanks to its ties to Omidyar – it is increasingly an organization that has more in common with Bellingcat, a group that launders NATO and U.S. propaganda and disguises it as “independent” and “investigative journalism.”

Then we have Jefferson Morley, the editor of The Deep State, former Washington Post journalist, and JFK assassination researcher, who has written a praiseworthy review of the Bellingcat film and who supports Bellingcat.

“In my experience, Bellingcat is credible,” he writes in an Alternet article, “Bellingcat documentary has the pace and plot of a thriller.”

Morley has also just written an article for Counterpunch – “Why the Douma Chemical Attack Wasn’t a ‘Managed Massacre’” – in which he disputes the claim that the April 7, 2018 attack in the Damascus suburb was a false flag operation carried out by Assad’s opponents.

“I do not see any evidence proving that Douma was a false flag incident,” he writes in this article that is written in a style that leaves one guessing as to what exactly he is saying.

It sounds convincing unless one concentrates, and then his double messages emerge.

Yet it is the kind of article that certain “sophisticated” left-wing readers might read and feel is insightful. But then Morley, who has written considerably about the CIA, edits a website that advertises itself as “the thinking person’s portal to the world of secret government,” and recently had an exchange with former CIA Director John Brennan where “Brennan put a friendly finger on my chest,” said in February 2017, less than a month after Trump was sworn in as president, that:

With a docile Republican majority in Congress and a demoralized Democratic Party in opposition, the leaders of the Deep State are the most—perhaps the only—credible check in Washington on what Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) calls Trump’s “wrecking ball presidency.”

Is it any wonder that some people might be a bit confused?

“I know what you’re thinking about,” said Tweedledum; “but it isn’t so, nohow.”

“Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

As a final case in point, there is a recent book by Stephen Kinzer, Poisoner in Chief: Sidney Gottlieb And The CIA Search For Mind Control, the story of the chemist known as Dr. Death who ran the CIA’s MK-ULTRA mind control project, using LSD, torture, electric shock therapy, hypnosis, etc.; developed sadistic methods of torture still used in black sites around the world; and invented various ingenious techniques for assassination, many of which were aimed at Fidel Castro.

Gottlieb was responsible for brutal prison and hospital experiments and untold death and suffering inflicted on all sorts of innocent people. His work was depraved in the deepest sense; he worked with Nazis who experimented on Jews despite being Jewish himself.

Kinzer writes in-depth about this man who considered himself a patriot and a spiritual person – a humane torturer and killer. It is an eye-opening book for anyone who does not know about Gottlieb, who gave the CIA the essential tools they use in their “organized crime” activities around the world – in the words of Douglass Valentine, the author of The CIA as Organized Crime and The Phoenix Program.

Kinzer’s book is good history on Gottlieb; however, he doesn’t venture into the present activities of the CIA and Gottlieb’s patriotic followers, who no doubt exist and go about their business in secret.

After recounting in detail the sordid history of Gottlieb’s secret work that is nauseating to read about, Kinzer leaves the reader with these strange words:

Gottlieb was not a sadist, but he might well have been…. Above all he was an instrument of history. Understanding him is a deeply disturbing way of understanding ourselves.

What possibly could this mean? Not a sadist? An instrument of history? Understanding ourselves? These few sentences, dropped out of nowhere, pull the rug out from under what is generally an illuminating history and what seems like a moral indictment. This language is pure mystification.

Kinzer also concludes that because Gottlieb said so, the CIA failed in their efforts to develop methods of mind control and ended MK-ULTRA’s experiments long ago. Why would he believe the word of a man who personified the agency he worked for: a secret liar? He writes,

When Sydney Gottlieb brough MK-ULTRA to its end in the early 1960s, he told his CIA superiors that he had found no reliable way to wipe away memory, make people abandon their consciences, or commit crimes and then forget them.

As for those who might think otherwise, Kinzer suggests they have vivid imaginations and are caught up in conspiracy thinking: “This [convincing others that the CIA had developed methods of mind control when they hadn’t] is Sydney Gottlieb’s most unexpected legacy,” he asserts.

He says this although Richard Helms, the CIA Director, destroyed all MK-Ultra records. He says that Allen Dulles, Gottlieb, and Helms themselves were caught up in a complete fantasy about mind control because they had seen too many movies and read too many books; mind control was impossible, a failure, a myth, he maintains. It is the stuff of popular culture, entertainment.

In an interview with Chris Hedges, interestingly posted by Jefferson Morley at his website, The Deep State, Hedges agrees with Kinzer. Gottlieb, Dulles, et al. were all deluded. Mind control was impossible. You couldn’t create a Manchurian Candidate; by implication, someone like Sirhan Sirhan could not have been programmed to be a fake Manchurian Candidate and to have no memory of what he did, as he claims. He could not have been mind-controlled by the CIA to perform his part as the seeming assassin of Senator Robert Kennedy while the real killer shot RFK from behind. People who think like this should get real.

Furthermore, as is so common in books such as Kinzer’s, he repeats the canard that JFK and RFK knew about and pressured the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro.

This is demonstrably false, as shown by the Church Committee and the Assassinations Record Review Board, among many others. That Kinzer takes the word of notorious liars like Richard Helms and the top-level CIA operative Samuel Halpern is simple incredible, something that is hard to consider a mistake. Slipped into a truth sandwich, it is devoured and passed on. But it is false. Bullshit meant to deceive.

But this is how these games are played. If you look carefully, you will see them widely. Inform, enlighten, while throwing in doubletalk and untruths.

The small number of people who read such books and articles will come away knowing some history that has no current relevance and being misinformed on other history that does. They will then be in the know, ready to pass their “wisdom” on to those who care to listen. They will not think they are average.

But they will be mind controlled, and the killer cat will roam freely without a bell, ready to devour the unsuspecting mice.

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Anne frank
Anne frank
Aug 19, 2020 7:23 AM

This is a very good story. It was nice to read this and you update the story so that we can get information about it.
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j g
j g
Dec 23, 2019 9:50 PM

You put out a headline about Bellingcat, then your article spends the first half talking about other shit. Learn to get to the point.

Marb
Marb
Dec 17, 2019 1:23 AM
Bootlyboob
Bootlyboob
Dec 17, 2019 10:08 AM
Reply to  Marb

Would be interesting to know how he was duped.

nwwoods
nwwoods
Dec 17, 2019 7:15 PM
Reply to  Marb

I am not seeing Hedges defending himself with respect to this issue, nor even mentioning it on his Twitter timeline.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 19, 2019 1:37 AM
Reply to  nwwoods

If Dr. Chris Hedges would provide at least an email address for opposition arguments or purposes of telling him to go fuck himself I, for one, would believe his faux benevolence & wholesome edifying newspeak more often than not. The same goes for all the other rock star Journalists out there.

Hedges & Truthdig are so yesterday’s rhetoric.

Let’s move on from that cheesy propaganda rag Truthdig & Scheer’s petards.

MOU

nwwoods
nwwoods
Dec 19, 2019 2:56 PM

His twitter account might be more effective for such a purpose, as he’d be challenged publicly. In contrast, virtually nobody is going to see emails except a few Facebook friends or something.

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 16, 2019 9:38 PM

I don’t know if this entry is relevant here but, bearing in mind that I take a bit of time to fully absorb matters, I just had to dump this somewhere. I have found the last few days more depressing than most of what I can remember. Long ago, I gave up on watching the mainstream news – although I still tuned into the BBC text pages occasionally. Because of a report I had heard on BBC bias on the day Rabbi Mirvis attacked Corbyn, I had a look at the BBC 6 O’clock news on iPlayer and couldn’t believe the screamingly obvious manipulation of prejudices. Still I thought that Corbyn might win and part of me was actually dreading that because of the inevitable increase in venom from the media with Corbyn as PM. But when I saw the result at 11 pm on the net on Fri 12th,… Read more »

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle
Dec 16, 2019 10:07 PM
Reply to  George Mc

The concern trolling from the Guardian is especially difficult to stomach.

Articles that are tedious and self-serving in equal measure, essentially all saying the same thing: has Labour learned its lesson about picking a leader that dared stray from the neoliberal fold?

The new leader will no doubt espouse the right sort identity politics bullshit but must under no circumstances threaten economic hegenomy – bascially it will be our version of an Obama or a Hillary or some other political figure that satisfies the tickbox mentality but will do nothing to reverse the austerity juggernaut.

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 16, 2019 11:04 PM
Reply to  Harry Stotle

I wonder how many of the electorate have worked out the fraud of New Labour (Thatcher’s proudest achievement – by her own reckoning). You can now gauge the integrity of genuine Labour politicians by the way they are received by the media. As I said before, even those who claim to loathe Blair don’t seem to object to him the way they just ‘felt there was something bad about Corbyn’. The media is a vast womb which sends out pleasant vibrations to everyone and when the system’s antibodies feel a threat, the vibrations turn nasty. Everyone feels the strain. And the masterstroke is not so much a dislike of the demonised person as a feeling that you will be shunned by all if you side with that demonised person. You can already feel the intolerable burden of public censure weighing on you to reject the one deemed a threat. Thus… Read more »

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
Dec 17, 2019 4:35 AM
Reply to  George Mc

The ‘felt there was just something wrong about him’ is the hallmark of a successful propaganda campaign. The purpose of propaganda is to generate visceral feelings about a subject or person. Its usually a simple message along the lines of “four legs good, two legs bad” that’s delivered in various ways and may even include elements of truth.

All this is well known; what needs to be figured out is how it works so well despite it being quite obvious what’s going on.

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle
Dec 17, 2019 6:36 AM
Reply to  Martin Usher

They couldn’t get Corbyn for his policies (which were bascially decent) so instead made the election about personalities, despite the fact Johnson was a leader who clearly had undergone an integrity by-pass many years ago. And lets be fair, the whole operation was a text book example by the MSM, especially the Guardian and the BBC in how to conduct a character assassination (including the BEEBs risible investigation into antisemitism: a programme more or less made via the Israeli embassy). The public were asked to believe and apparently had no problem accepting the idea that Corbyn was both a Trotskyist and Nazi at exactly the same time posing a mortal threat to ‘our way of life’, and to Jews in particular: many who had already packed their bags and were ready flee to the the illegal settlements if Corbyn triumphed (at least according to Jonathan Freedland’s and Nick Cohen’s analysis).… Read more »

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 16, 2019 10:54 PM
Reply to  George Mc

George just to try and put some alternative perspective and hopefully help you stand up and dust yourself down i give you the … The RINO LINO extinction. Remainer-in-name-only Labour-in-name-only MP’s cackling in uncontrolled delight when the exit poll arrived, as they saw that the Corbynites had failed and their own masters had delivered the promised defeat. And same for libdems who are specialists in betrayal since the 80’s. These rino-lino’s actions and words in this election should not be forgotten quickly. In several seats ‘independent’ MP’s stood and took large numbers of Labour votes. Many Labour voters would never have turned tory. Another Master’s plan that worked. These neoconmenandwomen of NuLabInc will get their seats on the boards of companies taking billions in profits every year from the NHS as they do from Education and other privatisations. The Rino-Lino tribe. Private school>posh Uni> political apprentice > spad > parachute… Read more »

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 17, 2019 7:59 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Thanks DunG always a pleasure to read what you say. There’s so much to digest there and I have little time now so I’ll just give immediate impressions. It is now blindingly obvious – more than ever before, that the masses have no representative in the political system. Labour is dead. The reasoning you offer about sleazy machinations in timing the vote to minimise Labour voting all makes sense. Part of my depression comes from the fact I live in South West Scotland – a traditional Tory stronghold, populated by farmers who are thicker than the pigshit they mop up. I have never felt so strongly the fact that MSM news is just a big movie and not even a well-made one – packed with the cheapest effects and insulting even to four year olds. And yet vast numbers still suck on it like a huge slimy dummy tit. I… Read more »

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 17, 2019 9:26 AM
Reply to  George Mc

George, what happened in this country is exactly analagous to what happened in WW1/WW2..infact every fucking war ever! And the Brexit referendum! We didn’t see posters and graffiti – it was done using the most advanced tech and communications on the planet – via Facebook and individual targeting of these adverts DIRECTLY into the eyeballs and minds of all who let it get into their souls. It sounds ‘agricultural’ and blunt but it was sophisticated – not just Huns (EU) but also demonisation of Corbyn and the crassest of old fashioned RACISM against the likes of Abbot. It didn’t collapse the Labour vote , far from it. But it allows the vote rigging to be obfuscated. ‘Of course they lost EVERYONE was seeing and spreading this on the net’. And it is designed to illicit exactly the defeatist feeling that you me and 11 million voters who did not fall… Read more »

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 19, 2019 8:00 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

I’m a bit confused by your advocacy of Richard Murphy. Granted he doesn’t do much of that Left sabre rattling thing – which is fun but gets tiresome quickly. But I’m not quite sure what he stands for. He favourably quotes Nik Cohen i.e. he of the Eustonite Left i.e. the pro-war Left i.e. the non-Left Left. Well I suppose Murphy would tell me to stop my adolescent game of aggressive “us and them” name calling. But I find that the favourable attitude comes from the declaration that neoliberalisn is dead. The neoliberals themselves no longer believe in it. But “the Left” do? Which “Left” still believes in neoliberalism? Which “Left” accepted neoliberalism in the first place? I also noticed that Murphy has a bad habit of not explaining himself. He has an article on MMT where he says this (providing a link to the giggle inducing analysis): “If you… Read more »

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 19, 2019 2:03 PM
Reply to  George Mc

George, I don’t necessarily agree with everything that RM says – particularly when it involves the Groaniad, as you may have guessed about me. Also he has actual work that he does and that blog is what he does in his spare moments so i don’t expect him to reply to, or publish every comment he gets – I believe he personally reads them all! He has certainly criticised Labour and its leadership and advisors as well as praised them over the years – that is contradictory but not wrong and not salient – what is though is the pragmatic nature. You can see for yourself by searching his site and picking the category that says Labour or MMT or whatever. Also his page on ‘comments’ on his site. I am inclined to listen to experts and proper investigative journalists at multiple sites. This one which i read yesterday is… Read more »

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 19, 2019 6:23 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

In one big way that link to the consortium news is heartening i.e. the bit where they don’t feel the anti-Semitism smears had much effect. (They think – probably correctly – that it was all down to Brexit.) As CJ Hopkins latest post shows, this AS smear campaign was incredibly well choregraphed and had vast sums of money and resources thrown at it. Following CJ’s links is one hell of a depressing experience. More depressing still are indications that, although Corbyn is gone, the AS bullshit is being revved up again for future threats to big money knobs. It seems that Bernie Saunders is about to get his chance to wear the little moustache. If it’s true (And please god – let it be true) that vast swathes of the population don’t go for this belligerent excrement then there is still hope.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 20, 2019 12:27 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I haven’r read CJ yet so am replying to your comment blind of that.
The AS smear was only about giving the msm interlocutors a point to pick on which avoided asking about the actual popular policies being offered by Labour.
The really nasty stuff was RACIST abuse of Abbot – ‘Can you imagine HER being in charge of OUR security next week? And ‘jezza is a commie, pacifist, IRA and Muslim terrorist, who is unpatriotic and therefore dissing all your ancestors who fought and died in the wars’

IT HAS BEEN THE DIRTIEST ELECTION EVER IN A ‘DEMOCRACY’.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 17, 2019 1:09 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Gore Vidal always knew how spineless editors of the MSM were throughout his writing life.
Great writers & thinkers like Gore Vidal rise above the pettiness of the editorial boards of the world to distinguish themselves as thinkers apart from the automatons that govern public discourses on the MSM.

Extremely opinionated people like Gore Vidal simply press on from the mundane to achieve thought parallel to all mature contemplatives of which the MSM are not.

MOU

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle
Dec 16, 2019 4:32 PM

“As Bernays has said, “The American motion picture is the greatest unconscious carrier of propaganda in the world today.” – the ‘entertainment’ industry is guilty of historical revisionism on a scale that would make David irving blush. ‘Cowboy films’ are the perfect exemplar. Instead of depicting historical fact i.e genocide perpetrated against an indigenous population the film industry would have you believe sophistictated Europeans undertook a quest to bring civilisation to superstitious and morally dubious natives. There are many revolting elements to these narratives not least the idea tribal leaders would willing side with the oppressor, for example by accepting the sort of crypto-penal conditions characterising reservations, and thus the idea of resistance being corralled under the watchful eye of those who know better. This indifference to asymmetrical violence plays out across every generation of film maker as wars in Korea, Iraq and Latin America are all viewed through the… Read more »

Andreas Schlüte
Andreas Schlüte
Dec 16, 2019 12:34 PM

MKultra dead? Mind control not possible? Yep, thus goes desinformation! See also:
“Mkultra Alive? An Alarm Call”: https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2018/01/10/mkultra-alive-an-alarm-call-mkultra-lebt-ein-alarmruf/

BigB
BigB
Dec 16, 2019 12:31 PM

I’m off to update my belief system and regularise my psychological self-defence against CIA infiltration. By reading the Warren Commission, the Iran-Contra committee, the Kerry Committee, and the 9/11 commission reports. Now I know that the American government is a sound epistemological ground on which to base my incorruptible belief system. And its congressional committees offer a sound evidence base to prevent my perception being distorted by propaganda. The Church Committee? The Assassinations Board? Does that epistemology include the Mueller Report? Or the House Judiciary Impeachment committee? If anyone is interested – and I swore I wouldn’t do this again – I’ve posted about three archives of information that shows the Kennedy’s ran Operation Mongoose as the “highest priority of their administration”. If you can contort all the evidence – including that RFK ran the operation personally, and JFK sat in on at least one meeting – into ”they didn’t… Read more »

Geordie
Geordie
Dec 17, 2019 12:06 PM
Reply to  BigB

I left school at 16, but even I know the plural of Kennedy is Kennedys.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Dec 16, 2019 11:14 AM

Whilst I myself don’t ‘Tweet’, I do follow Twitter to see what is being said. I was interested in the recent exchanges between OffGuardian and Huw Edwards regarding BBC bias…or not. It struck me that Edwards’ position is rather at odds with that of his erstwhile colleague John Humphrys. In his post-BBC autobiography published this autumn and referred to in a Guardian article, Humphrys … described what he labelled as the “institutional liberal bias” at the BBC and condemned the “Kremlin”-style corporation for being out of touch. He writes that BBC bosses were devastated by the victory of the Leave campaign, and likened their expression following the referendum to a football fan whose team has just missed a penalty. [Following BBC journalist Carrie Gracie’s complaint about BBC gender pay differences] Humphrys thought “Well at least I’ll be able to grill her [they were co-presenters on the Today radio programme] about… Read more »

austrian peter
austrian peter
Dec 16, 2019 8:28 AM

Excellent article, thank you Louis. I am reminded of a book I read twenty years ago which changed my thinking and caused me to write my own book, outing the TPTB through the global financial system aspect:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/fnahvp-free-book a free PDF is available on request to [email protected]

The book in question is well worth a read: Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins who also has an active website: https://johnperkins.org/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-Economic-Hit-Man-shocking/dp/0091909104

Frank
Frank
Dec 16, 2019 7:58 AM

Thanks a lot, Louis, for your sterling work. For those among us who’ve long since abstained altogether from the mainstream media narrative, you appear to encapsulate everything about it that is transparently duplicitous, underhanded and untenable to everyone but a geopolitically illiterate drooling idiot.

Your contributions remind us why we avoid the MSM completely. Long may you continue to post here.

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 16, 2019 10:39 AM
Reply to  Frank

Nice one Frank.

Orage
Orage
Dec 16, 2019 10:50 AM
Reply to  Frank

How can a Marxist side with the Atlantic council and Jihadists?

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 16, 2019 2:33 PM
Reply to  Orage

Say what?

Orage
Orage
Dec 16, 2019 7:17 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Referring to Louis, self declared Unrepentant Marxist

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 16, 2019 7:42 PM
Reply to  Orage

Ah. Thread ordering gets confusing after a while, Orage. And yes, Louis’ stance is baffling – but he is by no means alone on the Trotskyist Left. I wrote a recent piece on this.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 16, 2019 9:44 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Aaahh Philip… I just replied to Orage about all these various Trotskyite groups and idiots like Proyect, and was trying to rack my brains thinking of the title of an article Diana Johnstone did on this very subject couple years ago, and told him to type in her name, Syria and Trotskyists and then I scroll down and see your comment…. With attached link to your article! Sigh. Will read it later, as on way to sell the mag. Will be much interested in your take as, I’ve just joined the Socialist Equality Party. I don’t even consider myself a Trotskyite. I greatly respect all the work the SEP has done in defending Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning, and I fully agree with much of their analysis. Given the parlous state of the anti capitalist Left worldwide, including its lobotomisation by identity politics, and the very real threat of all… Read more »

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 16, 2019 10:58 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Lets join Labour and stop the Blairites coming back from the morgue of their backbenches.

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 17, 2019 9:25 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah my article singles out SEP as an “honourable exception” to the rule of Trotskyist positions on middle east and Russia both. I’m not a member myself. A former Workers Power escapee, I’m wary of having my style cramped (or too addicted to petit-bourgeois lifestylism) but visit WSWS site frequently. It’s a great resource, refreshingly free of the algorithmic predictability and hackneyed tone of such as Socialist Worker.

I haven’t read DJ though a mate of mine speaks highly of her. I’m aware of her parting of the ways with CounterPunch but not of the substantive details.

Best.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 17, 2019 10:24 AM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Philip – just read your ‘Syria How Did Trotskyism Get It So Wrong’ peice. I agree with literally everything you wrote, excellent and powerful, and your summation of events in Syria is what I have believed occurred for quite a few years now. As I said, I agree with the analysis of the WSWS regards Syria and elsewhere, and noted at the end of their very deserved take down of Mr Proyect, they labelled him a ‘liar and provacateur’. I couldn’t resist a chuckle. I attended another meeting on Sunday held by the Socialist Equality Party in defence of Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning and to build a campaign to oppose extradition, and I joined up after the meeting. There’s just too much shite going on in the World. And things are only going to get worse. Better to physically be around like minded people who also oppose capitalism and… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 17, 2019 7:42 AM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

“…pissing contest;” ?

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 17, 2019 10:26 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Happy to be proved wrong on the point, mate. I did follow with, “I’ve given a one-sided account .. my interlocutors would no doubt give different versions …”

From where I pen, I see a lot of armchair sneerers. If you are not one of them, if the cap don’t fit, then I’ll be delighted.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 17, 2019 1:56 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Do you remember the O-G article header? I keep no record and have never mastered O-G’s search functions.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Dec 18, 2019 2:06 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

It’s a simple word or phrase search. Or alternatively out can look in the category or tag archive that seems appropriate

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 19, 2019 3:45 AM

Sorry, I should have asked for a link, not a name. I thought that Philip’s similar comments on the subject on this site sounded like something he mentioned in his own blog. Here they were–I think–under an article he did not write and, to date, searching for such comments using the available site tools is not something I have figured out, whereas, in an On-Guardian search, ones own comments (or those of them that haven’t been openly censored or completely disappeared) provides a way that’s less than a herculean task. (But I do see that permitting unregistered pseudonyms as Off-Guardian does (hurrah) maybe just kicks that ball across the road, dumping the herculean task onto the programmer rather than the user.)

Orage
Orage
Dec 17, 2019 10:49 AM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Thanks Philip. Brilliant article BTW.

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 17, 2019 1:17 PM
Reply to  Orage

Thanks man!

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 16, 2019 9:26 PM
Reply to  Orage

Bingo! Exactly what I’ve been thinking for a long time. Whole range of pseudo socialist groups and individuals like Proyect, the Democratic Socialists Of America (Jacobin mag) former International Socialist Organisation, here in Australia, Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance who have got things so warped, they are shills for imperialism, and as you say, literally cheering for jihadists!
Truly bizarre.
Diana Johnstone did a really excellent peice on this a couple years back. Can’t remember title of her article, but try Diana Johnstone Syria Trotskyists.

Deb
Deb
Dec 17, 2019 3:32 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

The article you mention was published on Consortium News. Maybe type Trotskyists into Consortium News search bar and her article will show up in a Google search.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 17, 2019 4:05 AM
Reply to  Deb

Thanks Deb. Coz I use a smartphone, can’t open up a new window to find something while I’m using another window to comment here – if that makes sense.
Diana Johnstone’s article was very powerful, and described people like Louis Proyect and his fellow travellers at orgs like Socialist Alternative in Australia and the Democratic Socialists in America to a perfect tee.
Incidentally, Socialist Alternative are now frothing at the mouth about the Hong Kong ‘democracy protesters’ without mentioning NED, the CIA, the United States embassy, Jimmy Lai, Steve Bannon, or the Ukrainian Neo Nazi’s who have joined these ‘protests’.
The mind boggles how they could get things so wrong.
However, I strongly suspect some of their leadership may be, shall we say, ‘compromised’.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 17, 2019 6:57 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Coz I use a smartphone, can’t open up a new window to find something while I’m using another window to comment here – if that makes sense.

No, it doesn’t. What sort of smartphone (operating system, not brand). Why can’t you?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 17, 2019 7:10 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Hi Rob. It’s a Huawei android. I’ve tried that before several times – making a comment here, then wanted to look up something to add to the comment, opened up a new window to find info I wanted, went to go back to my first page, and it, um, cough, disappeared, so I had to start comment from scratch.
You’re talking to someone with the most basic computer literacy. I mean Basic.
Don’t even know how to do a link to an article I’m referencing (much to Milosevic’s bemusement!)
I had a similar comment with him a while back. Sigh. Thanks.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 17, 2019 2:00 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

…went to go back to my first page, and it, um, cough, disappeared…

How disappeared? The article and all or just your comment?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 17, 2019 8:19 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Everything Rob – Not just my comment, the whole page, so I have to bring up the page, say Offguardian again, then start my comment from scratch. It’s like when I go to find the original page with my comment on it, it’s gone.
Rushing for trains and buses, on way to ‘work’… Have a good evening

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 18, 2019 2:25 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

OK. Huawei’s Android phones may come with one or two browsers. One is called “Browser” and the other, if it’s installed, “Chrome”. I also use a Huawei (about 4 years old, about £40, so it’s probably about the same ‘level’ as yours) and entering part of a post then opening another ‘tab’ (not ‘window’ with a new instance of the browser), selecting and cutting something from it, and going back to the original tab to paste it into a half-completed post there works on both “Browser” and “Chrome”. So, which browser do you use? Either of the two likely to be pre-installed or a different one?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 18, 2019 7:50 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

Hi again…. Its Chrome. There’s an instruction manual thing in phone manager or settings or somewhere on my phone. I’ll just go into that and work things out myself, thanks Rob.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 19, 2019 1:24 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah,

Don’t feel bad about being a Luddite. I’m on 56k dialup modem with Windows 7 Professional which is no longer supported by Microsoft as of Jan 15th 2020. You have High Speed iPhone with Chrome for a browser. My browser is Explorer which is slower than turtles and has the efficiency of an atrophied dementia riddled & autopsied blog of dying grey matter floating in a jar of formaldehyde with a 6 volt battery attached by probes.

I’d take high speed over 56k dialup modem any day of the week & twice on Sundays.

MOU

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 19, 2019 2:03 AM

Thanks MOU… I’m 57, no computers or laptops when I went to school (obviously) and usually go to an Internet cafe, where everything is already set up, tho that’s not feasible when I’m home or out working and making comments here.
So, basically, never learnt to be computer literate.
NEWSFLASH*** Trump has been Impeached. What now? Does Christian Fascist and Rapturist Mike Pence became President?

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 19, 2019 3:16 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Happy to share Trump’s impeachment with announcement of it coming from Oz first. Down under got the headline before moi.

Oh happy day!

Cheers!

MOU

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 19, 2019 3:39 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

So, basically, never learnt to be computer literate.

At the time that Nicholas Negroponte was setting up the “One Laptop per Child Association” to bring digital literacy to a grateful world, David Suzuki was fronting the leading popular science program on Canadian TV. His response to Negroponte? The world and its children would be far better off with a plant pot or an ant farm per child to bring environmental sensitivity to an even more grateful world.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 19, 2019 3:16 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Now we’ve off-topiced this far, might as well complete it. On the top row of the Chrome browser, you’ll see a either box or an icon that looks like a stack of books with a number either inside or beside it (1 if you’ve just started browser up and have gone to only one site). Touch it to go to a list of the tabs you have open. Beside that list, usually at the top, you’ll see a + sign. Touch it to open a new tab and a blank start page will open. Use it to go to the second site. You’ll see that the number has changed to 2. When you’ve found what you want on the second site, touch the tabs icon again. In the list, touch the first item and you’ll find you’re back on the first site again, with anything you might have typed in… Read more »

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 19, 2019 10:33 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

When I went to school in the late 60s and 70s, no such thing as Internet or laptops or smartphones or even video players!
Just never learnt. Been going to Internet cafes for years where everything is already set up for you. Now, no need to even go to Cafes when everything is on your phone.
Thanks for this advice Rob, appreciate.
Have a good weekend😁

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 19, 2019 8:26 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Don’t even know how to do a link to an article I’m referencing

Just type or cut-and-paste the address (‘URL’, i.e. http://example.com/page) of the site/page you want to reference into the text you are typing. Leave at least one space or newline on each end.

In O-G’s editor you can also make some of the text itself into a link. Select the text concerned and touch the link button at the top of the text box. Type or cut-and-paste the URL into the box that pops up. No need to worry about spaces.

Deb
Deb
Dec 18, 2019 12:27 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

I go to WWSW to read occasionally, mainly their History section and the Archives, always look at the comments section of their articles too. I noticed they are copping a lot of criticism with their HK articles and so they should, support of “democracy protestors”, yeah sure they are, tools a better word for them. Like you I have my doubts about them, mainly because they follow US Foreign Policy in this weird way if you get what I’m saying. They have never corrected the Tiannamen Square “massacre”, if they are a news source they should. I have a FB friend who is a SEP follower of Trotsky and WWSW, and I put it to him about it needed to be corrected, and he said I was wrong, thousands massacred in Tiannamen Square. So I asked for evidence and he said he was researching it and would get back. Still… Read more »

Deb
Deb
Dec 16, 2019 1:16 AM

Dr Timothy Leary, “turn on tune in drop out” fame, claimed in an interview that 80% of the time the CIA was telling him what to do. IMO the CIA used MK-Ultra techniques and propaganda on their own people.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 16, 2019 3:00 AM
Reply to  Deb

Leary was a professor of Experimental Psychology. No professor on the face of planet Earth would state that the CIA ‘was telling them what to do’. If any professor stated something along those lines they would immediately be summarily fired outright from any academic institution in the Western world.

MOU

Deb
Deb
Dec 17, 2019 3:36 AM

Well, he did say that on an interview, and long after he had held that position, and been in gaol. I don’t think he belonged to any academic institution at the time of the interview. If you want I will look for the article and link it here, if you still insist I am making this up or it’s fake news.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 17, 2019 3:52 AM
Reply to  Deb

Please link the article.

MOU

Deb
Deb
Dec 18, 2019 8:08 AM

Google MKUltra, read The Politics of Heroin, Google Iran Contra, it’s well known CIA involved in drugs and disguised it. Read “Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond.” Even people like Ken Kesey and William Burroughs have questioned whether Leary was a tool of CIA to destroy the new left. I can’t seem to find where I got this quote from an article but I’ll post it anyway, because it’s well known. “According to Angleton’s deputy, Scott Miler, in early October 1970, CIA is busy trying to answer the question: “What was Eldridge Cleaver doing in Algeria?” Curiously, Leary now flies to Algiers and joins up with Black Panther Party leader Eldridge Cleaver. Leary’s travels, and the operation to spring him from jail, have been financed by Stark and the Brotherhood. By October 21, 1970, a CIA memo reports prized CHAOS source is… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 17, 2019 7:00 AM
Reply to  Deb

MOU is hardly master of his own keyboard. Best left as ‘practice for the reader.’

mikael
mikael
Dec 16, 2019 12:09 AM

Ok, this was an god flashback to whats defined as propaganda. BUT. Then comes the cowboys riding, and shoots down the entire debate, with what, truths, holohoax, sorry, I dont belive an single word of it, camps yes, but massgraves, nothing( 3.2 million khazar jews, changed their names in Poland, from 48 to 60s, and the holohoax propaganda was created late in the 60s and thru out the 70s to whats known to day, this millions of jews never was gassed or killed, they simply changed their names and I have much more than just this, but I know some Polaks knows this to, like the presen Pope whom is orignaly an Jew and go to sites like UNZ, and read about a lot of this peopeganda ripped to shreads, and thats a lot of it to) , not an single mass grave and yet if I write this you… Read more »

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 16, 2019 1:08 AM
Reply to  mikael

Well! ..? … just asking.

Maybe translation software? Or just pissed? Does not matter. Nice rant.

nottheonly1
nottheonly1
Dec 16, 2019 9:58 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Right. Quantum physics today is just a scam.

Of course it is to those who a) never heard of, or b) never understood the ‘Double Slit Experiment’.

It has become apparent most recently, that it is statements like that (and similar) give away that someone knows absolutely nothing – but the whisperings of propaganda. WikiPedia becomes a trustworthy source and by deducting one propaganda from another, one becomes as brilliant as above. Discrediting those, who truly continue the process of thinking.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 16, 2019 10:50 AM
Reply to  nottheonly1

?

Bootlyboob
Bootlyboob
Dec 16, 2019 10:01 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Two rule of thumbs is better than one right?

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 16, 2019 10:51 AM
Reply to  Bootlyboob

? ?

Do both you and NTO1 intend these comments to moi?

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 18, 2019 3:54 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Do both you and NTO1 intend these comments to moi?

No they do not mean it as a reply to you except, possibly, as a response to your apparent possible “approval” of some of the content of the original post that could be implied from your “Nice rant.”

NTO1 is taking exception to the original poster’s bullshit (not the first instance on this site) and Bb seems to be commenting, quite wittily, on the average matrix bottom dwellers’ primary interface to the real world.

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect
Dec 15, 2019 4:09 PM

It’s had its work skewered by the likes of Seymour Hersh and MIT professor Theodore Postol, and its US government connections pointed out by many others, including Ben Norton and Max Blumenthal at The Gray Zone. — That’s some group of authorities. LRB eventually stopped publishing Hersh even though it was hitherto a treasure-trove of pro-Assad propaganda. Postol writes a piece absolving Assad for the peer-reviewed journal at Princeton upon whose board he sits and they find it unworthy of publication. Finally, as for Norton and Blumenthal, who reversed themselves 180 degrees on Assad after Blumenthal attended a gala dinner for RT, they have just written an article that takes up the cause of a Syrian fascist as I pointed out before. —– In an astonishing display of how low Max Blumenthal and Ben Norton have sunk, a recent article (https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/08/us-uk-military-intelligence-apparatus-destroy-jeremy-corbyn/) about “Russiagate” type smears against Corbyn includes this paragraph:… Read more »

lundiel
lundiel
Dec 15, 2019 5:29 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Hahaha, I wondered when you’d show up, was going to mention it but I couldn’t remember you name. This one’s all about you “comrade”.

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 15, 2019 5:54 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Interesting post there Louis. The bit about Syrian Girl appears to be copied from Wiki who give us nothing on Ryan Dawson other than to say he’s a “Holocaust Denier”. Googling around, I find myself confronted by the usual vacuity of stuff like this: “Ryan Dawson, RT’s “Human Rights Activist,” A Holocaust Denier Who’s Friends With Hate Criminals” Those “Hate Criminals” again. What are they? Criminals who have been seduced by some mysterious entity called “Hate”? From Dawson’s own Twitter account I see this: “Holocaust exaggerations are the main cause of Holocaust denial. There was a Holocaust. It was bad enough on its own. Starvation, shootings, disease, beatings and being worked to death. You dont need to add extraordinary bullshit to it like soap lampshads gas and ovens” He’s not denying a Holocaust although he is certainly rejecting some of the claims. And as for that Syrian Girl quote you… Read more »

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect
Dec 15, 2019 6:21 PM
Reply to  George Mc

People can judge Ryan Dawson from this softball interview he did with Eric Hunt.

https://altcensored.com/watch?v=qJn7lO1DcwM

I should add that Hunt disavows his past videos, like “The Jewish Gas Chamber Hoax”. I can’t say if Dawson has as well.

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect
Dec 15, 2019 6:27 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

I should add that Dawson, like Marian Susli, thinks it is okay to be interviewed by white supremacist David Duke.

https://davidduke.com/monday191111-2-2/

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 15, 2019 8:03 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Yes I have seen this ‘contamination’ manoeuvre before i.e. to say that if X has material published on a white supremacist site then every argument X makes must be ditched. Back in the months following 9/11, when I queried Richard Seymour about why he didn’t suspect the official account, he responded with a reference to one ‘truther’ who, Seymour was careful to point out, was a ‘Holocaust Denier’. Implication: doubting the official account of 9/11 makes you a ‘Holocaust Denier’. Well it doesn’t.

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 15, 2019 7:57 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Interesting link with the Hunt video there. I have seen this ‘revisionist’ argument before. The basic point is made about 6 minutes in i.e. not querying that people died, not querying that they died in vast numbers – but querying that there was an extermination programme involving gas chambers. Now I know this is an incendiary matter. But I’d like to know one thing. Is it actually illegal to make this last named query? If I look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial there is the comment (emphasis added in capitals): “The EU extradition policy regarding Holocaust denial was tested in the UK during the 2008 failed extradition case brought against the suspected Holocaust denier Frederick Toben by the German government. As THERE IS NO SPECIFIC CRIME OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL IN THE UK, the German government had applied for Toben’s extradition for racial and xenophobic crimes. Toben’s extradition was refused by the Westminster Magistrates’… Read more »

nottheonly1
nottheonly1
Dec 16, 2019 10:05 AM
Reply to  George Mc

…Toben’s extradition was refused by the Westminster Magistrates’ Court…

Too bad Julian Assange is not a holocaust denier.

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 15, 2019 6:18 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

So. LRB and Princeton editors find those who’d defend Assad from imperialist propaganda too hot to handle. Well well well, how surprising. LRB is hardly alone on the liberal left in finding Hersh – who broke the My Lai story – now too hot to handle. Like the veteran John Pilger, Hersh has difficulty getting published anywhere. And you – a marxist?!? – see such de facto blacklisting as evidence not of the very points Ed Curtin is so ably making, but as pointing to defects in Seymour Hersh’s character, his sanity even. Shame on you, sir.

Assad’s a Syrian fascist? There was a time when marxists, unrepentant ones at any rate, took great care with the f-word. It was not to be lightly tossed around like a schoolyard epithet. Shame again.

You ready yet to apologise for your Vanessa Beeley misogyny?

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect
Dec 15, 2019 6:38 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

So. LRB and Princeton editors find those who’d defend Assad from imperialist propaganda too hot to handle.

You make it sound like being pro-Assad is like being such a fearless exercise. In fact, Charles Glass writes for the NY Review of Books, Harpers and other prestigious magazines making the same points that Edward Curtin made above. Meanwhile, the Nation Magazine publishes James Carden and Stephen F. Cohen who also agree with Curtin. With Postol, Hersh and the Grayzone boys, it is a matter of not being elegant enough when it comes to defending hospitals in Idlib being bombed. You need to be more nuanced when it comes to legitimizing war crimes.

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect
Dec 15, 2019 6:55 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

I should add that Tucker Carlson, the white supremacist Fox News host, has also put down the red carpet for Blumenthal and others who agree with Curtin. This is not exactly the kind of spiel that would risk losing your career over.

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 15, 2019 7:36 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

You lose me with the syntax and hence the meaning of your second sentence but I get the drift, I think. Curtin and Blumenthal are damned by being endorsed by Carlson.

And vegetarians by the fact Hitler was one.

Sonia Heaney
Sonia Heaney
Dec 15, 2019 8:00 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

All vegetarians are racists! That’s logic. 😉

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 15, 2019 7:33 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

I’ve been unable to decide in your case whether I’m dealing with one who is obtuse or dishonest. I’m coming to the reluctant conclusion it’s the latter. Of course it is permissible to write as Ed does, and be published. But that’s not what we’re speaking of here – as you well know. We’re speaking of blacklisting voices questioning the specifics of an empire friendly narrative on Syria. It follows that your final two sentences are demonstrably false not only in ignoring mounting evidence against, and lack of evidence for, war crimes in Syria. (I’m sure these are being committed because that’s the nature of war. But at issue is whether Damascus, in a life and death struggle against imperial aggression, is doing so egregiously. For instance, was Russian bombing of Aleppo somehow worse than US bombing of Mosul, where my daughter was based at the time and can vouch… Read more »

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect
Dec 15, 2019 8:08 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Could you direct me to the more nuanced and elegant “legitimizers of war crimes” who are being published in the mainstream?

Sure. David Bromwich, Hugh Roberts, Patrick L. Smith, Robert F. Worth, and Andrew Cockburn. They’ve all written pro-Assad articles for the LRB, the NYRB, the NY Times, and other top-drawer periodicals but less obviously propagandistic than the crap that Blumenthal writes. I guess Blumenthal doesn’t care about being considered toxic in these magazines since he can always count on the rubles pouring in.

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 16, 2019 2:32 AM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Louis this is an example of precisely why I fear I may have to join so many others in giving up on you as a serious debating adversary. As George Mc points out elsewhere on this thread, links you provide too often turn out not to back up the point you appear to be making. I too have experienced this in past exchanges. It smacks of dishonesty, of smokescreening in the hope people won’t check your ‘sources’. I guess that’s a self fulfilling hope because, guess what, I too am on the verge of not bothering. In this case, however, you provide no links at all. Just a slew of names. To be clear, albeit repetitively so, what I ask of you is evidence of mainstream journalists and commentators who (a) challenge the specifics of imperialist allegations in respect of Douma last year and (b) do so from an anti-imperialist… Read more »

RealPeter
RealPeter
Dec 16, 2019 5:14 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

Just after the Douma incident, I distinctly remember reading a piece by Robert Fisk, who went to the area in the days following the alleged gas attack. He spoke to a number of local residents, none of whom had suffered from, witnessed or heard of any such attack. His conclusion was that no gas attack had occurred. Fisk is no friend of the Assads.

Unfortunately, I can’t remember where the article was published. Perhaps some Off-G reader can help with a link.

Peter Fletcher
Peter Fletcher
Dec 17, 2019 9:38 PM
Reply to  milosevic

Milosevic, thanks for the link to Fisk’s article, showing what appears to have been, not to put too fine a point on it, a simple but toxic (pun intended) propaganda stunt – not toxic for the children filmed being hosed down in misleading videos, but for the ignorant Western publics being lied to yet again. Highly recommended reading – a pity it’s a bit lost in the present thread.

Louis Proyect
Louis Proyect
Dec 15, 2019 8:22 PM
Reply to  Philip Roddis

For instance, was Russian bombing of Aleppo somehow worse than US bombing of Mosul, where my daughter was based at the time and can vouch for its ferocity?

Of course not. They were both war crimes, as far as I am concerned. In fact, I consider aerial bombardment ipso facto criminal.

https://louisproyect.org/2015/11/17/a-history-of-bombing/

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Dec 15, 2019 8:51 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Please try to use the blockquote option when quoting text, it makes it much easier for readers to follow the conversation. You can find it in the editor tab just above the text area

Philip Roddis
Philip Roddis
Dec 16, 2019 2:40 AM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Ah. On this at least we might find ground for progress. ALL aerial bombardment is to be condemned. Excellent. What I need now are links to your doubtless many articles and posts condemning what happened at Mosul. What I also need are either your plan for a Syrian “third way” that posits Ba’athism’s demise without that country falling into the US orbit … or your plan for how Damascus could have resisted the terror unleashed on it, and reclaimed its sovereign territory from Isis and the like, without resort to aerial bombing.

The USA, as we’ve agreed, couldn’t pull that off in Iraq, but I’m sure you have the blueprint for success in Syria …

Orage
Orage
Dec 15, 2019 7:09 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Louis
There are people within the OPCW who have objected to the final report and who think that that report did not represent the scientific findings:
https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/document/
Any comments?

Orage
Orage
Dec 15, 2019 8:53 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

I thought you should be more rigourous than that in trying to produce a counterargument. This is a quote from Mr Whitaker of Al Baab

Note: I shall be studying WikiLeaks’ batch of documents in more detail over the next few days and hope to have a more detailed report later.

Mr Brian Whitaker is the man behind Al-Bab. a one man band and his opinion may or may not be reliable. Any other sources?

Per/Norway
Per/Norway
Dec 15, 2019 9:22 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

I only feel pity for people like you bc there is only 2 alternatives to who/what you are.
1. NPC/useful idiot
2. A traitor paid to post propaganda online
So no matter which is true you are a traitor and a 5th column that help to destroy innocent childrens lives around the world and in your own country. Watch Bezmenov`s intervju after he betrayed Sovjet, pay extra attention when he starts talking about “useful idiots” and their fate😏

Per.

Sonia Heaney
Sonia Heaney
Dec 15, 2019 7:57 PM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Syrian Girl’s name I believe is ‘Maram’ – an ethnic Arab name and not your colonially patronising ‘Marian’!!

Tells us all we need to know about you.

Frank
Frank
Dec 16, 2019 7:59 AM
Reply to  Louis Proyect

Thanks a lot, Louis, for your sterling work. For those among us who’ve long since abstained altogether from the mainstream media narrative, you appear to encapsulate everything about it that is transparently duplicitous, underhanded and untenable to everyone but a geopolitically illiterate drooling idiot.

Your contributions remind us why we avoid the MSM completely. Long may you continue to post here.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 15, 2019 3:58 PM

The CIA & Five Eyes still practice neurological control today & they also practice Satanism. Benevolence was never an inherent attribute of the CIA or any of the intel agencies. Collectively, they are all criminally connected to organized crime & Murder Inc., and have always been criminally ungrounded. Without Bernays’ promotion of Professor Emeritus Sigmund Freud the world would never have heard of him. Bernays was not all skullduggery historically. The CIA was built upon Systems Theory & Western religion undergirded by Capitalism with a culturally deviant homosexual at helm of the FBI. Secrecy about sexual orientation was paramount for all homosexuals during that era and beyond. The homosexuals naturally gravitated towards the areas of LE & government that engaged in that form of societal control. Homosexuals also gravitated towards organized religion over time knowing that their lives were cloistered similarly to that of gay clergy in the Roman Catholic… Read more »

BigB
BigB
Dec 16, 2019 11:53 AM

Is that strictly true, MOU? Freud – and his contemporaries Jung, Fromm, and Adler – exerted huge influence on the Continental School …most notably on Lacan. Even those who rejected him – such as Deleuze and Guattari – where nonetheless hugely influenced by him …eg ‘anti-Oedipus’ or ‘anoedipal’. Are you saying that was down solely to Bernays?

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 16, 2019 4:00 PM
Reply to  BigB

Yes it’s true given what biographers have stated about the historiography. Any historian worth their salt knows the integral part Bernays played to get Freud’s writing to American markets & readers.

Adler was booted from the Wednesday Society by Freud himself. Jung was supposed to take over from Freud but diverged instead and formed his own models.

Freud demanded that colleagues follow his theories as dogmatic adherents. Jung & Adler were far too individualist & independent to require mentorship as Freud envisioned it.

Fromm was heavily influenced by Freud’s work to the point where Freud’s historiography was key to his own theorizing and undergirded it.

MOU

lundiel
lundiel
Dec 15, 2019 3:05 PM

Anyone know how they proceed with deradicalisation? ‘They’ claim it works. My guess is a mixture of blackmail (threatening to inform their fellow travelers they’ve been turned, whether it’s true or not. Evidence held proving they are complicit with authorities), threats to harm their families, rewards and showing them how insignificant they and their loved ones truly are…..I don’t imagine they actually attempt to alter their beliefs.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 15, 2019 11:40 PM
Reply to  lundiel

Look at how the USA deradicalized Kanye West post White House visits to Trump wearing a red MAGA baseball cap for some attention.

Kanye West is now doing the televangelist circuit and speaking out against ‘the devil of Hollywood’.

King Trump demoted him.

That’s how they proceed with deradicalization.

MOU

lundiel
lundiel
Dec 16, 2019 8:10 AM

I meant the official Muslim deradicalisation in place in Britain. Msm often speaks of it but I haven’t a clue as to what it entails.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Dec 15, 2019 2:23 PM

Edward Curtin, thankyou for the article and info though I am confused by the lack of two items in the piece which i believe would sit well in the piece.

1.No mention of the ‘sheeple’ man?

Alex Carey : ‘It is arguable that the success of business propaganda in persuading us, for so long, that we are free from propaganda is one of the most significant propaganda achievements of the twentieth century.’
https://off-guardian.org/2019/08/16/inside-the-submissive-void/

2. ‘Stockholm Syndrome’

‘The victim sees the abuser as the “good guy” and those trying to win his/her release as the “bad guys”, as this is the way the abuser sees things.’

Part of my tracking of excuses to cover the blatant FIXING of the election.

Brian Steere
Brian Steere
Dec 15, 2019 2:02 PM

All children learn to ‘see’ and develop their own understanding of their world from their relationship with parenting, their peers and their society. So there is a neccessary adaptation within an inherited, acquired or imposed ‘curriculum’ of education that initiates and conditions or trains us to social functions – within which are personal or individual responsibilities. Civilising might be a better term for awkened responsibity for life – and socialisation might be better to differentiate the identification with the ‘social curtain’ of masking persona – that embodies a ruleset or narrative set of socially held definitions that are outwardly presented but also inwardly and secretly concealed. Without awakened relational responsibility – is a masking survivalism – of life or self identified in the mask or ego of a set of beliefs and self-definitions running the cover story, for the hidden agenda. The mask is the split of mind as to… Read more »

Berlin beerman
Berlin beerman
Dec 15, 2019 1:48 PM

It starts with schooling of young children. Propaganda starts from day one. The entire methods to learned behaviour begin early.

Its become rather evident in the last two decades that youth have little ability to differentiate between opinion and fact, hence opinions become facts and history re-writes more easily than ever before.

Presenters on the tele are not research based reporters anymore, not that that made a difference in the past 50 years but at least you saw the reporting which made you think. Today we do not even know who is reporting.

Fresno_Jim
Fresno_Jim
Dec 15, 2019 7:02 PM
Reply to  Berlin beerman

Not so sure reporters were ever not pressing a political agenda. I visited Sam Simeon Ca., the William Randolph Hearst mansion actually. In the tour the guide stated unequivocally that W R Hearst was know in the 1920’s as the king-maker. If you wanted to be President of the US you first had to kiss his ring. The names and players may have changed but the game is still the same.

Berlin beerman
Berlin beerman
Dec 15, 2019 8:39 PM
Reply to  Fresno_Jim

Propaganda. Hurst was appalled at the Hollywood propaganda machine. He saw the damage it caused and he had the weapons with which to fire back opposing opinions. Today the media outlets rarely have opposing views and if they do its still not entirely on a global agenda. Today you have speed of information, granted it can be flawed and dishonestly interpreted, yet its upon us in a heart beat and on mass. Today you have opinions stated and written as fact with minions who can not fathom the difference between the two. Fact and fiction have been part of world history from the beginning. Eventually some begin to see and to understand and to hate and to feel violated, of wasted time, and worse. Propaganda usually works on uniformed, simple minded individuals. The propagandists are not much different other than they are in tune with their evil and self centered… Read more »

Fresno_Jim
Fresno_Jim
Dec 15, 2019 11:15 PM
Reply to  Berlin beerman

Actually Hearst is the definition of yellow journalism.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 16, 2019 7:33 PM
Reply to  Fresno_Jim

Hearst was the grandfather of yellow journalism.

MOU

Ivan
Ivan
Dec 15, 2019 1:02 PM

A good article. I too cannot understand how a journalist who cares about truth agrees to present awards to “Bellingcat”, since it looks so probable that they are tied to western “secret services”, thus CIA/NSA/… This should discredit at least his judgement, if not himself as a person who cares about morality of his actions.

Ivan
Ivan
Dec 15, 2019 2:28 PM
Reply to  Ivan

“to present awards to “Bellingcat”” – sorry, I was not citing the article correctly, it was actually an Emmy award to a film whitewashing “Bellingcat”, not an award to “Bellingcat” itself.

paul
paul
Dec 15, 2019 4:36 PM
Reply to  Ivan

Why shouldn’t Elliott get an award?
He was previously Underwear Salesman Of The Year.
He has a history of excellence in whatever field he is in.

ArseaboutFace
ArseaboutFace
Dec 15, 2019 12:58 PM

Interesting that Firefox screenshot seems to have gone mental when trying to save this for future reference …

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Dec 15, 2019 2:19 PM
Reply to  ArseaboutFace

Always better to save the whole page / article as an archive file in Firefox, or else print it as a PDF file.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Dec 15, 2019 12:13 PM

Actually the most dangerous situations are mass media organisations which build a decades long brand for some point of view being turned into the exact opposite without telling the readers. The Guardian is the classic example. It is now owned by neocons and so, surprise surprise, it is now a neocon outlet. But still the sheep on the left keep reading it. It is no more left wing than Boris Johnson is monogamous. The Democratic Party is also now a neoliberal party, utterly disconnected from blue collar IS workers. Just like New Labour ended up and London Labour now is. The EU started with a reputation of being communautaire, but is now unashamedly neoconservative and fancies being a global imperialist. But still the duped Remainers think otherwise. When there are bloody coups, everyone knows what has happened. Ukraine, Bolivia, Venezuela etc. When it is Major to Blair, no one gets… Read more »

paul
paul
Dec 15, 2019 4:43 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

The MSM is dying on its feet. It is laying off tens of thousands of people in the US and being outsourced to “Steve from Mumbai” for $5 an article. People just aren’t buying what they’re selling any more. All the lies have become too obvious. It has lost all credibility and become a standing joke, only partly because of Trump. Ditto Britain. All the real journalists are as dead as the dodo, replaced by clickbait.

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 15, 2019 10:47 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

That bit about ‘the sheep on the left’ who carry on reading a ‘traditionally left wing’ paper without noticing that it has turned completely around reminded me of the story of actress Maggie Gyllenhaal who appeared in the anti-union propaganda film ‘Won’t Back Down’. On being criticised for this, Gyllenhaal said, ‘There’s no world in which I would ever, EVER make an anti-union movie. My parents are left of Trotsky.’ Note the typically American glitzy hyperbole that shows no awareness of what she’s talking about. But the main wonder is that she embodies that ludicrously shallow notion that you can be something by simply calling yourself it.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 16, 2019 1:39 AM
Reply to  George Mc

It’s not easy being the greatest drummer in the entire world but someone has to be that individual even if I don’t proclaim it often enough to warrant being characterized as shallow.

MOU

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 20, 2019 4:58 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

…the most dangerous situations are mass media organisations which build a decades long brand for some point of view being turned into the exact opposite without telling the readers. The Guardian is the classic example. It is now owned by neocons and so, surprise surprise, it is now a neocon outlet. The Guardian was never, not ever–from its foundation by Midlands mill owners united against their workers, in Manchester or anywhere else–left of centre, and it has frequently veered to the deep right. The Democratic Party is also now a neoliberal party […] Just like New Labour ended up… “New” Labour was always Tory Light. Tony Blair’s pitch to the Labour party for the leadership role, which he won 2 treacherous years 9 treacherous months and 11 treachourous days before becoming Prime Minister, was a quite explicit break not only from the “old” Labour left but also from any meaningful… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 20, 2019 5:06 AM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

It amazes me that those on the left have not done the same or if they have, what they are doing about it.

Putting together, if too late, flawed movements, conflicted parties and honest publications. What did you think?

BigB
BigB
Dec 15, 2019 12:04 PM

Lipmann was also the Father of Neoliberalism: which is often traced to the Lipmann Colloque in 1928. Menger, Mises, and Hayek gestated their ideas in thinktanks sponsored by the Mount Pelerin Society and City of London before starting their great social-Darwinian behaviorism and and social engineering project in Chile. The rest they say is history: or is it? The big idea was organising society around the equilibrium of supply and demand: which was the only emancipatory distribution of production which led to absolute freedom. So long as the state stepped out of the way. Of the many flawed fallacious contradictions that have come to light – such as the extremised and polarised inequality of distribution (ah, but the market is neutral – it’s your fault if you are not making it large) – was that the market mechanism was severely crisis prone. So the state remained integrally valuable as the… Read more »

The consensual contr
The consensual contr
Dec 15, 2019 12:20 PM
Reply to  BigB

Oh come on. Firstly, we are powerless to initiate change, you said it yourself. The consensual contract with the state – quasi- formalised by the state electoral process (voting) – sets the relationship of the market subject to the state as one of obedient powerlessness So why is your narrative always that we are morons for even bothering to try and force a small change on the back of neoliberalism’s obvious failure. If we can diagnose the market state economy and its integral ideology industrial complex as insane: surely we have to lend our legitimacy to a greater sanity? Which leads to the greatest impasse of all. The Great Sanity is a synonym of the Great Simplification. Embracing sanity means great personal sacrifice and relinquishing of status, security, wealth, and self-importance – which are market dependencies – in return for love, compassion, loving-kindness, humility and emancipatory alter-globalised equality – which… Read more »

lundiel
lundiel
Dec 15, 2019 12:21 PM

I posted the above, not the consensual whatever.

BigB
BigB
Dec 15, 2019 9:30 PM

Yes, because working hand in hand with neoliberalism to produce universal-emancipatory humanism is working out just fine, so far. We’ve state-socially agreed our way to the event horizon of species extinction …and we are still negotiating for corporate concessions as we enter the egoically devolutionary black hole. If you try a set of behaviours and they fail …you adapt and try a new set. If you stick with the same set over and over expecting different results …is that a definition of sanity or insanity? Why are we so wedded to the capitalist state and the expedited extinctionism on offer? And the white supremacism …the ethnocentric exceptionalism …the imperialism …the extractivism …the toxic social inequality? Maybe next time conscious capitalism will raise the global poor out of poverty by another cent to compensate for subsidising the global rich for another year? Last week: 30 million people voted to extend this… Read more »

Geordie
Geordie
Dec 17, 2019 12:24 PM
Reply to  BigB

I’ m not sure what some of those words mean, bonny lad, but if I can just ask — what you you think us ordinary people struggling to help make a difference should do if voting doesn’t work?

My dad was a coal miner, I drive a delivery van three days a week so I’m after practical suggestions not a philosophical treatise, if it’s all the same man.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 20, 2019 5:49 AM

So why is your narrative always that we are morons for even bothering to try and force a small change on the back of neoliberalism’s obvious failure.

That’s not what he’s trying to say. What he’s trying to say is that no change at all is any longer (see ‘negentropy’ as repositioned by Fantappiè and subsequent commentators) if you persist in trying to place and effect that change within the anti-life framework that has spawned, amongst other anti-human monstrosities, neoliberalism.

Schoolboy dreams.

Actually, vice versa.

Molloy
Molloy
Dec 15, 2019 1:52 PM
Reply to  BigB

Yes. Is this not the psyops, deliberate indoctrination, that more than 60% are afflicted by — — despair and learned helplessness?
For me, utterly amazing how many seemingly become so apathetic re blatant election fraud.
What can we do?!!

BigB
BigB
Dec 16, 2019 11:12 AM
Reply to  Molloy

They play a part. When I said human perception is distorted before we become aware of it …I mean thousands of years before. We inherit the sedimentation of millennia of assumptions and beliefs. That is what a culture is. And cultural-linguistics are the means of inter-generational transmission …which is epigenetic. The categories we use are a little modified direct epigenetic transmission straight from Aristotle. The major politics – of progressivism and conservatism – stem largely from Aristotle and Plato. Which have evolved as syncretic ideals accordingly. But not that much if you struggle to read at least some of the Republic. It’s pretty much all there. “Authoritarianism is the footnotes to Plato” is how I frame that. We essentially inherit shit distorted representations of the world: and make them more shit and distorted inter-generationally. It is an epigenetic anti-evolution. The distorted conceptual representations determine the distorted appearances of the world:… Read more »

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Dec 20, 2019 5:21 AM
Reply to  BigB

Which is a conclusion I suspect many will be coming to as the only solution to the multiplex of ecological, social, and psychological crises we face.

Enough, if enough enough still remain, will only be coming to that conclusion when, as an assistant to the manager of the Playboy Club in Park Lane said long, long ago, the most “will be dropping like flies” dead in the streets.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 15, 2019 11:35 AM

Very powerful peice of writing Edward, thank you. ‘Bellingcat: Truth In A Post Truth World’. Jayzus… Who came up with such bullshit? Higgins himself? The loon wouldn’t know Truth if it fell on him from a 5 storey building. And the bloody film wins an Emmy!? Its almost as Orwellian as Obama winning a Nobel Peace Prize. The first thing we need to do is detach ourselves from the propaganda matrix as much as possible, if not fully. Dump the mainstream presstitutes where they belong: The Sewer. I totally avoid American brainrot TV shows like NCIS and 24 and all the other crap, which is just crude propaganda. In fact, I watch almost no TV at all, except the occasional game of football, and once in a blue moon, a documentary. I won’t watch anything from Hollywood full stop. Interesting to note the CIA’s idea of courting the compatible Left… Read more »

milosevic
milosevic
Dec 17, 2019 9:39 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

The disclosure earlier this year of who was funding the defunct International Socialist Organisation in the United States all made perfect sense

Who was funding them?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 17, 2019 12:58 PM
Reply to  milosevic

Hi Milosevic…. The defunct International Socialist Organisation and their publishing arm Haymarket Books had an umbrella organisation called Centre For Economic Research And Social Change – CERSC. At least 37% of CERSC funding came from Democratic Party aligned think tanks and foundations including the Wallace Fund, Tides Foundation and Lannan Foundation. Since 2007-08, CERSC received $3.172 million from these and other foundations. Rockefeller Brothers Fund gave CERSC a $40000 grant in 2018, and they also received a $25000 grant from the UNZ foundation… as in Ron Unz. Billionaire businessman. Why would he, and the Rockefeller’s give grants to a ‘revolutionary socialist’ (cough) organisation? The Tides Foundation as mentioned above was established by an RJ Reynolds tobacco heiress, and was recently being funded millions of dollars by…. Guess who. Yep, George Soros. The Lannan Foundation was set up by a Financier, Patrick Lannan. Another funder for the Tides Foundation has been… Read more »

Geordie
Geordie
Dec 17, 2019 12:27 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

I personally have my reservations about Consortium News too, and not sure what to make of Caitlin Johnstone after her bit of line-toeing over 9/11.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Dec 17, 2019 1:15 PM
Reply to  Geordie

Hi Geordie… I make comments at Caitlin Johnstone, and yeah, saw that article on 9/11, and like you was quite perplexed by it.
After that, will be more aware of what she says.
I also note with her blog, the topic of the Zionist lobby or even Israel itself hardly ever gets mentioned. At all.
Also note she uses the phrase ‘American Centralised Empire’ which strikes me as a bit odd.
However, most of what Caitlin says, I do agree with quite strongly.

George Cornell
George Cornell
Dec 15, 2019 11:31 AM

Freud’s influence has waned dramatically over the last 2 generations. Psychoanalysis is now seen as charlatanesque by many and importantly it has never been shown to work for anything in a randomized trial.Its practitioners said that trials were unnecessary, it’s benefits were so obvious. In the 70’s I recall asking analysts in NYC, home of the great Institute, if it did any good. I finally got one to reply without the steely stare reserved for those suspected of wanting to starve the offspring of analysts. He said with a thick Brooklyn accent, “Does it do any good?! Look, I got a house, a car and a big boat!” He meant it. Ah the candour before post-truth. It has been supplanted by CBT which does work. But for decades analysts were the embodiment of the poseur, but never achieved much cred among their medical colleagues who saw them for what they… Read more »

lundiel
lundiel
Dec 15, 2019 12:23 PM
Reply to  George Cornell

I couldn’t agree more.

Molloy
Molloy
Dec 15, 2019 1:58 PM
Reply to  George Cornell

“….supplanted by CBT which does work..”
CBT only works in the minority of cases; often by victim blaming and persuading the individual to conform with mainstream stupidity.

George Cornell
George Cornell
Dec 15, 2019 3:30 PM
Reply to  Molloy

Yes that’s why a Nobel was given for it. You may wish to read the citation. Your summary of CBT is frankly unreasonable, unsupported and naive. It does not work well for many personality disorders but nothing does. They are the only maladies failing to respond to placebo and a measure of their intractableness is that even metastatic bone pain responds to placebo.

Molloy
Molloy
Dec 15, 2019 3:47 PM
Reply to  George Cornell

“We found no evidence for the superiority of CBT or short-term psychoanalytical therapy…..”
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanpsy/PIIS2215-0366(16)30378-9.pdf

George Cornell
George Cornell
Dec 15, 2019 5:13 PM
Reply to  Molloy

My dear Molloy, I hope you don’t mind me saying that link is very misleading in this context and you fail to point out that the study you cite is solitary, in a very specific condition, viz. adolescent unipolar depression, and one which hardly be expected to shed light on the general run of psychiatric disorders, and does not address the usual bedevilling issues of dose, context, and duration. Yes these are formidable.

If personality disorders and psychiatric diseases are anything they are heterogeneous and multifactorial.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 16, 2019 2:12 AM
Reply to  George Cornell

Personality Disorders & Psychiatric Disease models are primarily western inventions whereby referents of disease are based in the individual instead of the society & environment. Causality & direction of causal determinants of psychopathology are culturally determined.

The American Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is an insurance manual for physicians & MDs mostly. Only wealthy cohorts get to see a Clinical Psychologist or Psychiatrist in practice. Wealthy clients are not research data for most academic studies as they are protected via privacy rights. Most academic work is done on university undergrads which skews generalizability to the population as a whole.

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is great for dogs & cats. I suspect it works for seriously phobic individuals too.

No psychotherapy is a panacea for self knowledge & introspection except maybe Psychoanalysis.

MOU

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 16, 2019 1:54 AM
Reply to  George Cornell

Freud was the first to systematize Psychosexual Development & Psychological Defense Mechanisms, plus he was midwife to Psychoanalysis which was actually given to him by Joseph Breuer his mentor & the grandfather of Psychoanalysis proper. Freud was grandfather of Psychoanalytic Theory.

Psychodynamic discipline in Personality Theory is historically known as First Force Psychology & Depth Psychology. Freud also was instrumental vis-a-vis the Third Scourge of Humanity via Uber Coca and his introduction to the world of Cocaine.

I thought he was the cat’s pajamas, frankly.

MOU

George Cornell
George Cornell
Dec 16, 2019 2:13 AM

But many think psychoanalysis, especially as it became practised in his later years on rich neurotics, to be akin to frenzied self-abuse. He spawned hordes of cash and carry analysts who never found it necessary to ask if it was actually of any value to the patients nor to subject it to the usual measures of efficacy. It being helpful to themselves was sufficient. He owed more than he allowed to Pavlov.
But he surely contributed to many fields including aphasia, understanding humour and to dreams. Cats knickers yes.

MASTER OF UNIVE
MASTER OF UNIVE
Dec 16, 2019 2:50 AM
Reply to  George Cornell

I collaborated on academic research with two APA Chairs of Psychoanalysis back in the 90s. They are both serious Experimental Psychologists with extensive research track records. They were never inclined to entertain neuroticism as being fundamental aetiology of psychopathology.

Read Frank Sulloway’s _Freud: Biologist of the Mind_

Freud was also the first to invent & develop cell staining technique with a silver Golgi stain for analysis of cell tissue. He was a Neurobiologist before he invented Psychoanalytic Theory.

MOU

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 15, 2019 11:10 AM

This may seem off topic but I think it’s an indication of the vast change the entire Western world is going through:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP4TUARDa4A

S B Cohen is speaking on behalf of the old media paradigm i.e. the one I grew up in where I could simply put my faith in “proper news” – indeed it was unthinkable, as in unthought – to have to say “proper” there. There was one main news outlet. This has of course broken down with the internet and the old order are panicking.

There’s too much going on in this clip to summarise but I will highlight the brilliant observation that Cohen’s supposed unmasking of prejudice is actually a projection of stereotypical prejudice which his victims momentarily go along with just to please him. In short, it’s a microcosm of the basic tactic of creating your own enemies to justify your own aggressive acts.

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 15, 2019 6:16 PM
Reply to  George Mc

From S B Cohen’s speech:

“…Zuckerberg says that “people should decide what is credible, not tech companies.” But at a time when two-thirds of millennials say they haven’t even heard of Auschwitz, how are they supposed to know what’s “credible”? How are they supposed to know that the lie is a lie?”

You’re not to be trusted to know what’s ‘credible’ unless you know about Auschwitz. The Holocaust is your guide to everything!

And isn’t it curious how the Holocaust has ceaselessly been used to emphasise a misanthropic view that says human nature is irredeemably evil – especially when amplified by masses. And to note that SBC’s ‘humour’ is based on ‘proving’ that everyone is racist and bigoted. Note how all this feeds so conveniently into that oldest political trick: divide-and-rule.

J-J
J-J
Dec 15, 2019 9:35 AM

Chris Hedges was shown for the lackey he’s always hidden from view when he called Lenin a right wing dictator! And as for Glenn Greenwald hes another shill controlled opposition journo for liberal kiddy winks

George Mc
George Mc
Dec 15, 2019 9:31 AM

The only ‘rule’ I have for tackling disinformation is to mistrust any site that offers itself up as a ‘guide to disinformation’. I’m afraid there is no alternative but to roll your sleeves up and get in there and keep your critical faculties working all the time. What makes it even more arduous – or ‘interesting’ – is that you may find a site that is offering obvious bullshit or which has a basic point of view that seems contemptible – and yet it may offer up info that is genuine, this being an attempt to ‘stain’ the good stuff with the bad.

The entire thrust of a consumer capitalist world is to hear, ‘Don’t do the work. Let us do it for you’. Never trust that. There is simply no substitute for thinking for yourself.

J-J
J-J
Dec 15, 2019 9:39 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Well people like you and I are in the minority because I show people the evidence for certain things and their responses is along the lines of “but the news/papers said so, why would they lie” even though these are same people that say “I don’t believe a word I’m told by the media” the mind boggles

Brian Steere
Brian Steere
Dec 16, 2019 3:34 PM
Reply to  J-J

Perhaps we cannot confront people directly without triggering defence. It may be that our trying to get through generates the very reaction that blocks. Integrating what we open to as our own life, is a freedom to be who we are, that doesn’t need to recruit or convince anyone – but does pass through loneliness and exclusion with all that that brings up – as PART OF a deeper reintegration. But it will seem a block or negative outcome at first and for many is a block that prevents even listening. Fear OF exclusion, of isolation, of loss of supported identity, clings to the ‘known’, because on one level it works – even if when pushed it is a pack of cards – and so is strongly or artfully defended. A world of lies is a very hard and dark world to live in – if you have no foundation… Read more »

Molloy
Molloy
Dec 15, 2019 2:02 PM
Reply to  George Mc

IF you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies, Or being hated, don’t give way to hating, And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream – and not make dreams your master; If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools: If you can… Read more »

Brian Steere
Brian Steere
Dec 16, 2019 2:07 PM
Reply to  George Mc

If you don’t read what I write in joining with your comment – the short version is yes, and thankyou. I’ve been skimming through comments on this page and so much is ‘making an identity by reaction’ rather than growing a consciousness from which to share in. From the attempt to understand in a frame that precludes understanding perhaps. In a curious way, clashing identities reinforce each other no less than by ‘agreement’ – within the contest of some arguable facet of truth. But this merely makes ‘noise’ by which the signal is lost – and into which ‘taking sides’ attracts emotional identity investment. A battle of illusions from which truth must be excluded if we seek to make it a weapon against anything. A key recognition in my appreciation is that the truly helpful is often uncovered where we would least and last look – or behind what we… Read more »

lundiel
lundiel
Dec 15, 2019 8:55 AM

Bernays did use his knowledge for peaceful purposes. He took a cakemix that wasn’t selling well and reasoned that it was because, with only the addition of water to the mix, housewives didn’t feel they were actually ‘makeing’ the cake. His solution, he removed the dried egg powder and got ‘housewives’ to beat VB an egg into the mixture. The cakemix was hugely successful after that. It’s taught to all marketing students and shows how easily you can control thinking by playing up to social customs. In his own way, Higgins does the same. He started out as “Brown Moses” during the distruction of Libya. He had an obsession with weapons but developed a following, firstly among Sunnis living in Britain, and secondly by conservative supporters wishing to justify Libyan (and then Syrian) intervention. At the time, I thought he was in Libya/Syria, it was only later when he started… Read more »

lundiel
lundiel
Dec 15, 2019 9:00 AM
Reply to  lundiel

An afterthought. In our society Higgins is an entrepreneur.

Bootlyboob
Bootlyboob
Dec 15, 2019 8:41 AM
Hugh O'Neill
Hugh O'Neill
Dec 15, 2019 8:32 AM

First they came for Democracy, having captured justice, fairness, kindness, the ability to think, and finally they murdered Truth. The latest election in the UK is just the latest example of the choreographed slaughter of truth, and the unstoppable boot of Fascism stamping on the Face of Humanity. But as long as a few candles (like Offguardian) still burn, then perhaps there is still a flicker of hope? For if we abandon hope, then evil has finally triumphed. Still mourning the UK election, I was reminded that everything in the end is corrupted, just as in Nature. In the Western Christian church, incorruptibility was one sign of sainthood. (Though in the Eastern tradition, did it mean vampire?). Many thanks for reminding us of which quasi-truth tellers have joined the Hellish Chorus of lies and half-truths. As always, the Litmus Test is the assassination of JFK. Thinking of Kinzer here, his… Read more »

George Cornell
George Cornell
Dec 15, 2019 3:35 PM
Reply to  Hugh O'Neill

Hugh you have a platinum tongue.

Roberto
Roberto
Dec 15, 2019 5:09 PM
Reply to  Hugh O'Neill

First, the Labour Party voted to remove their leader, but he refused to resign. Then, that leader led the Party to their worst defeat since 1935, and he didn’t immediately resign. He promises to resign after a ‘suitable period of reflection’. What is it with leftist leaders who will just not go? Propaganda aside, the Party’s message just did not resonate with voters, who realise that political idealism, and especially radical idealism, has had an unfortunate record of failure in history simply because of the forced conformity it requires. The typical reaction of leftist failure is to blame everyone and everything else; there is evil, corruption, superior propaganda, fascism, untruth, and inhumanity because they didn’t win, and they mourn the result. That’s when you realise that to leftists, an election is only an unfortunate stumbling block to gain power; ideally (and historically), voting for the candidate of your choice of… Read more »

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Dec 15, 2019 5:36 AM

‘In the 1920s, the influential American intellectual Walter Lippman argued that the average person was incapable of seeing or understanding the world clearly and needed to be guided by experts behind the social curtain.’

Lippmans hubris blinded him to the fact that most education systems around the world teach young people WHAT to think, not HOW to think.
That, and the massive education divide between the haves and have nots, has produced a mainly compliant, obedient and gullible
society.
We reap what we sow.

J-J
J-J
Dec 15, 2019 9:42 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

I sure didn’t sow it but I am reaping the rewards of past generations stupidity and fear of their own thoughts