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The MH17 Show Trial Isn’t About Justice Or Closure, But Information Warfare

Andrew Korybko
The MH17 tragedy is back in the news after the start of this case’s show trial in the Netherlands, which isn’t about bringing the alleged perpetrators to justice or helping the victims’ families find closure, but waging information warfare against Russia in an attempt to “conclusively” pin the blame for this crime on its supposed proxies in Eastern Ukraine so as to ruin President Putin’s international reputation once and for all.

The world is once again talking about the MH17 tragedy after the start of this case’s show trial in the Netherlands, where four of the alleged perpetrators are being accused of murder. It’s unlikely that they’ll appear before the court, so the entire process is more about show than substance.

In case the reader doesn’t remember exactly what happened on that fateful summer day on 17 July, 2014, the author recommends that they review his most recent analysis on the issue from earlier this year titled “Latest MH17 Documentary By SBU Whistleblower Shares Some Shocking Truths”, which covers what he believes to be the most convincing version of events that transpired immediately before, during, and after the passenger jet was shot down over Eastern Ukraine.

In short, the conventional narrative that the Russian-aligned rebels there were responsible is debunked as a convenient cover-up for masking Kiev’s culpability, which in turn also makes that government’s Western backers — and not Russia — indirectly responsible. It’s therefore understandable that a lot of powerful forces are invested in making their manufactured version of the “truth” the “official” one, hence the show trial, which is nothing more than an attempt to “conclusively” pin the blame for this crime on Russia and its supposed proxies in Eastern Ukraine.

Before going any further, it needs to be said that victims’ families have every right to be upset about what happened, and that everyone should respect their right to draw their own conclusions about what took place even if one doesn’t ultimately agree with them. The author doesn’t believe that Russia or the Eastern Ukrainian rebels were responsible, but acknowledges that some of the victims’ families think differently, especially after some of them staged a silent protest outside of the Russian Embassy in The Hague over the weekend.

Nobody should criticize the victims’ families and thus make this all the more harder for them to deal with, but there’s also nothing wrong with talking about how their reaction to this tragedy is being exploited by those who are relying upon it to convince others that their interpretation of events is the only correct one.

Politicizing the suffering of innocent people is wrong no matter who does it or why, which is why it’s morally reprehensible that others are taking advantage of them under the guise of “giving them a voice” in order to push their narrative onto the broader public. The ongoing trial isn’t about bringing the alleged perpetrators to justice or helping the victim’s families find closure, but waging information warfare against Russia, the purpose of which is to ruin its international reputation and that of its leader once and for all.

President Putin is generally despised by the West but loved by the non-West because of his domestic and foreign policy successes over the past 20 years, which greatly contributed to bringing the emerging Multipolar World Order about. Even his detractors recognize that he’s an epochal figure whose legacy will certainly be studied for generations to come by people all across the world, they just regard Russia’s return to international prominence as being detrimental to their countries’ zero-sum interests.

Nevertheless, they also wisely understand that soft power is more important than ever before in today’s interconnected, globalized world, especially after the information-communication technology revolution of the early 2000s, so they have a driving motivation to defame the Russian leader any chance they get.

Regrettably, the MH17 tragedy is cynically seen as the “perfect opportunity” to ruin his legacy by forever associating him with what happened even though he played no role in those events whatsoever, nor did his countrymen. All that’s important to the “perception managers” who manufactured this weaponized narrative is that the lingering suspicion of President Putin’s possible involvement “credibly” exists, which explains the infowar importance of the ongoing show trial for supposedly “confirming” that.

Back to the show trial itself, it’s predictable that the accused will probably be found “guilty” for the aforementioned political reasons of pinning the blame for that tragedy entirely on Russia and the Eastern Ukrainian rebels so as to defect from the “inconvenient” facts that have since come to light implicating Kiev and its Western backers, which was explained in the author’s analysis that he cited in the opening paragraph of this article.

The overall soft power impact of this seemingly inevitable conclusion will likely be minimal, however, seeing as how most people have already made up their minds about who was really responsible. Those who are convinced that Russia played a role will feel “vindicated” by the anticipated verdict, while those who have remained skeptical this entire time could use the newfound attention to this case to share the “inconvenient” evidence that was just touched upon with others.

The takeaway from all this “legal” drama is that tragedies will almost always be politicized for information warfare purposes, especially if the case can remotely be made that Russia or any of the West’s other geopolitical rivals might have had even an indirect role in whatever it is that transpired, so these countries should brace themselves to expect more such show trials in the future and take steps to ensure that their side of the story is heard by as many people as possible.

Originally published by One World Press

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Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 20, 2020 12:12 AM

MH17 Show Trial

The MH17 tragedy is back in the news after the start of this case’s show trial in the Netherlands, which isn’t about bringing the alleged perpetrators to justice or helping the victims’ families find closure, but waging information warfare against Russia in an attempt to “conclusively” pin the blame for this crime on its supposed proxies in Eastern Ukraine so as to ruin President Putin’s international reputation once and for all.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 15, 2020 8:07 AM

I see that the stinking, Evil, farce of the Lockerbie set-up has taken its inevitable U-turn.
When Libya was set up by the West as the patsy over Lockerbie, it was well-known what the truth of the matter was. Iran had paid the PFLP in Beirut to bring down a US plane in revenge for the USS Vincennes’ deliberate destruction of an Iranian air-bus, over the Persian Gulf. The PFLP secreted the bomb on board, inside a radio, having penetrated a US DEA drug sting operation, that ensured that the baggage was not checked on its voyage towards the USA.
However, the US needed Iran and Syria to stay out of the way as Iraq was destroyed in the First Gulf War, so the phony ‘Gaddaffi did it’ garbage was concocted, and a corrupt show trial, conducted from the body of the court by US officials openly signalling the prosecution. was conducted.
But it was CERTAIN that one day, when a casus belli for ‘obliterating’ Iran was required, that the culpability of Iran would be ‘discovered’. With Megrahi and Gaddaffi dead, and Libya destroyed, the time is now ripe, and the vilification will begin. Evil in the highest degree.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 14, 2020 8:42 PM

Excellent article:

MH17 — The trial of shame has begun in the Netherlands

http://www.donbass-insider.com/2020/03/12/mh17-the-trial-of-shame-has-begun-in-the-netherlands/

Antonym
Antonym
Mar 14, 2020 5:40 AM

While Dutch prosecutors are playing international political games they lost focus on domestic crime: Dutch national charged in takedown of obscene website selling over 2,000 “real rape” and child pornography videos, funded by cryptocurrency

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Mar 13, 2020 6:50 AM

It’s just like 9/11: ignore any evidence that does not fit the narrative.

9/11 first responder evidence was stonewalled en masse, as multiple independent witnesses testified about explosions and repeated bangs consistent with controlled demolition.

All the crime scene evidence was shipped off to China without criminal investigators being able to examine it first. A1 criminal procedure, that.

WTC7 was covered up, is still covered up by the MSM. Oops: a building which was brought down but not by terrorists.

Everyone covered up what was nicked from the WTC vaults. It might provide some answers to cui bono.

Exactly the same is happening in the MH17 saga: the script is that ‘it’s Russia wot dun it.’ Anything which deviates from that must be deemed inadmissible.

This is not due process, it is due malfeasance.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 13, 2020 9:33 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Unfortunately, like 9/11, Rhys, people are believing that people died in a plane crash and are debating who was responsible just as they believe that people died on 9/11 and are debating who was responsible when:

All the evidence shows that death and injury were staged on 9/11
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

All the evidence shows that the crash of MH-17 was faked
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/did-mh-17-crash-in-eastern-ukraine

They push out Story 1 for the believers, Story 2 for the skeptics and disbelievers when all along it’s Story 3. It’s a simple propaganda technique using focusing and terms such as “false flag” (it wasn’t the alleged group responsible but another) to lead people astray.

Stonky
Stonky
Mar 14, 2020 12:35 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra, if these events are staged, then somebody is staging them, with the hope or intention of benefiting from them. Yes? Otherwise why would they bother staging them?

So please. Before you post any more of your inane drivel. Would you try to provide a coherent answer to this simple question:

WHY would the people who benefit from these events go to all the trouble of staging them, when it is a million times easier just to do it for real? WHY? WHY?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 14, 2020 10:39 PM
Reply to  Stonky

I judge by the evidence not the whys and wherefores, Stonky, and the evidence clearly shows that death and injury were staged. As I keep repeating very monotonously, they always TELL us when they’re staging and in the case of 9/11 they give us obviously fake dead bodies, obviously photoshopped photos of people with their lost loved one, alleged victims who are, in fact, suffering from vitiligo.

Just to point out that you don’t need a motive to make a claim about something, only evidence. A motive does not prove or disprove anything although it can help your case, of course.

In any case, however, I’m not sure why you think it would be so much easier to do it for real. That really puzzles me.

— Many people needed to be involved in the massive exercise that was 9/11 and I don’t think all the people involved would be too happy about their government killing 3,000 of their fellow citizens in the buildings when they didn’t have to. Not too happy at all. We know that Brian Williams and David Restuccio were involved by this obviously scripted dialogue – and, of course, this scripted dialogue is another example of them telling us that they are responsible:

Conversation between Brian Williams, MSNBC News Anchor and David Restuccio, FDNY EMS Lieutenant about WTC-7 after its collapse:

“Can you confirm that it was No 7 that just went in?” [“Went in” is a term used in controlled demolition that comes from the fact that the buildings fall in on themselves.]

“Yes, sir.”

“And you guys knew this was comin’ all day.”

— Doing it for real means loss of control of the 9/11 myth that they wish to perpetuate in the history books forever presumably. Big loss of control and control of the myth is of utmost importance. Can you imagine the loss of control with the loved ones of 3,000 dead people descending on the Capitol and running amok when the evidence of controlled demolition is so obvious. Can you imagine? While people might accept propaganda, if reluctantly, from the powers that be under normal circumstances when a loved one is killed they are able to magically see through the propaganda and turn into super sleuths fighting to their death for truth and justice.

Perhaps you can explain to me, Stonky, why you think it would be so much easier for them to do it for real and exactly how they would have done it for real?

Questions for you Stonky:

— Do you believe that the number of the 3,000 dead that they give us just happened by chance or that they orchestrated the event to come up with 3,000 dead people?

— Do you think that 265 people died in planes? If not, what do you think happened to the 265 people who allegedly died in the planes? If so, on what evidence do you believe that people died in planes? I say that the plane crashes were faked and here is my case:
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/11.html

— Can you give some idea of how they would they have conducted the evacuations to ensure some people were left behind and some people escaped and who would the people be who orchestrated this? A bit of a Sophie’s choice type exercise, would you agree?

— Do you have any explanation for how 6,000 people were injured? They tell us that there were very few survivors of the building collapses (to my mind I find it hard to believe that there would have been any) so can you provide any suggestions for how 6,000 people were injured? Here are the stories of the alleged survivors of the twin tower collapses. How credible do you find them, I wonder, Stonky. How credible?
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/2003/n_9189/

As for the virus thing? What’s easier about doing it for real and how could they do it for real? I do not understand that at all.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 14, 2020 10:40 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Oops! “alleged victims who are, in fact, suffering from vitiligo” should be “alleged burns victims …”.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 15, 2020 8:38 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Sorry, scrap, virus, it’s the plane crash we’re talking about. It’s pretty easy to stage a plane crash when you stage it like MH-17’s, that is, with complete absence of realism.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 15, 2020 9:00 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

If it was entirely staged it would have needed cooperation from the ordinary people and militias of Donbass who were st the time in the midst of a very real struggle for their survival against the neo-Nazi regime in Kiev. MH17 provided an excuse to hit these people even harder. They gained nothing from it and lost a great deal. A false flag is probable, a hoax in these circs seems vanishingly improbable.

Tho for the record one of the Donbas locals first on the scene did claim the bodies smelled of formaldehyde. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 15, 2020 10:50 AM
Reply to  Admin1

Admin, one must judge by the evidence, not speculation about what you think should or would have happened. Evidence rules!

What the evidence shows is that the crash was staged. Period. And there is zero, absolutely zero evidence to contradict that hypothesis.

If you think you have any, please let me know what it is, because they are, as I keep saying, utterly scrupulous in never faking a piece of evidence so well (and I’m sure they could if they wanted to) that a believer of their story can brandish it in support of it.

Admin, you never really seem to get that evidence rules, do you? Your argument is pure speculation and “vanishingly improbable” is a completely meaningless conjecture when the evidence clearly shows staging.

What doesn’t count as evidence:
— People being interviewed and saying one thing or another – these people could be crisis actors
— A photo of itself unless it clearly shows what it purports to show because it could be a staged or photoshopped photo

And as you point out yourself, a Donbas local claiming that bodies smelt of formaldehyde is anomalous to a real crash, isn’t it? “Bodies smelling of formaldehyde” perfectly fits the always two-part hypothesis that occurs with staged events, “staged with deliberate anomalies”. It couldn’t fit it better but for a real event we’d really have to ask why the bodies smelt of formaldehyde?

I have given my evidence in this comment here:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/12/the-mh17-show-trial-isnt-about-justice-or-closure-but-information-warfare/#comment-126422 and no one has sensibly contradicted the evidence or refuted it including you.

On my webpage I analyse the photo of alleged bodies and wreckage in greater detail.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/coronavirus-hoax-jan-2020

Please, Admin, evidence or refutation of what I present as evidence that the event was staged. You cannot argue “would have or should have” – that is the logical fallacy, Argumentum ad speculum.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 15, 2020 5:51 PM
Reply to  Admin1

I remember seeing the video by the woman who claimed that the bodies smelled of formaldehyde. That video has been removed from YouTube – I found the reference to that video on Live Leak:
comment image

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 16, 2020 11:49 PM
Reply to  Stonky

WHY would the people who benefit from these events go to all the trouble of staging them, when it is a million times easier just to do it for real? WHY? WHY?

So, Stonky, got any answers to my questions? Your question indicates that you are utterly convinced that doing it for real is so much easier. Where is your explanation for that conviction?

You know what disappoints me most since I woke up:
— Not that the power elite are totally hoaxing us
— Not that people won’t give consideration to the evidence

Nope.

What disappoints me the most is how belief-driven people are regardless of what side of the conspiracy fence they’re on and the fact that they will simply withdraw from argument because they cannot defend their belief but refuse to recognise that as they cannot defend it they should change their minds about that belief.

My identical twin and I have argued for years over the moon landings (one thing I believe to be real). Both of us never, ever give up in argument. We will keep going as long as the other person is prepared to keep going. Finally, though, I have my sister in a corner that she cannot defend and what does she do? She says she won’t discuss the moon landings any more and will delete any further emails I send her on the subject. That is not my sister talking, that is her attachment to her belief. Why people are so attached to beliefs I do not know. I find it fun to change my beliefs on things a lot of the time, although some, too, are difficult because they are so disillusioning.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 2:49 AM

In the photo at the top of the article, that pale bald judge looks as if he suddenly realized he was caught about to whip it out and masturbate…

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 13, 2020 12:32 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

That aside, who on earth designed those legal robes? Most peculiar. Some ‘designer’ was presumably paid thousands of pounds to come up with that unique styling. But why? It’s not a fashion show, for heaven’s sake.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 6:14 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

ln Europe, in court, it is a long-held tradition that the lawyers and the judges wear robes. In the UK and all the British ex-colonies, they also wear wigs.
comment image
comment image

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 13, 2020 6:56 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Hi V,

I realise that it is convention to wear robes within certain disciplines – I’ve worn them myself. But have you actually studied the design of the ones being worn in the picture from the Netherlands court room? Apart from the ornate embroidery on what would appear to be ceremonial robes worn by the UK Supreme Court judges, robes are usually a simple design, sometimes accompanied by a sash of some sort – why would they need to be anything other than plain. But the ones in the picture look like they were designed by Jean Paul Gaultier. 😀

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 8:09 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

The designs vary from country to country. Some are elaborate, others are very simple.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 8:11 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Jean Paul Gaultier would have designed robes that hug the body and reveal a lot of flesh!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 13, 2020 10:16 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

And Bibs for the drooling. Either from senescence or anticipation, or both.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 6:16 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

UK Supreme Court judges’ robes:
comment image

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 6:24 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

US graduates and UK university graduates also wear robes and weird hats with tassels!
comment image

paul
paul
Mar 14, 2020 12:15 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

This chap would be improperly dressed at Oxford without black shoes and a white bow tie.
(Though he could now self identify as a woman and wear a black skirt and white blouse instead.)

An undergraduate taking his finals complained that he had not been served a tankard of ale, to which he was entitled.
He was given a tankard of ale, but was then fined for failing to wear his sword.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 14, 2020 10:03 AM
Reply to  paul

I found that picture on an American website selling graduation regalia to American students.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 13, 2020 10:15 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Or he had just finished, and was re-adjusting his dress.

Mike Nagel
Mike Nagel
Mar 14, 2020 12:52 AM

A Kangaroo costume seems appropriate seeing as the “court” most likely has already reached a verdict.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 14, 2020 9:36 PM
Reply to  Mike Nagel

‘Most likely..’-masterly understatement!

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Mar 12, 2020 11:45 PM

The World turns …

Off Topic prob

‘The grand jury investigating WikiLeaks was dismissed by federal judge.’

But this is immense and I will post it at a current article – feel free to delete mods – i only post it here as most readers prob only ever go to the most recent article.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kgosztola/status/1238233439247257601

It speaks to the concept of Show Trials and maybe a few goodfolk who believe in justice.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Mar 13, 2020 12:00 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

It appears truth is breaking out everywhere

‘A FOURTH whistleblower from the OPCW has now spoken out to defend inspectors who challenged a cover-up of the chemical weapons probe in Douma, Syria’
https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1238194099548762112

JudyJ
JudyJ
Mar 13, 2020 12:02 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

I caught up with this on Piers Robinson’s twitter feed, re-tweeted today by OffG. It is exactly the sort of progress required for the truth to become impossible for the MSM to ignore. I have forwarded the Grayzone article to my MP, who was aware of my disgust at the coalition attack on Syria post-Douma from my previous communications with him.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 6:30 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Also, a Federal judge ordered the immediate release of Chelsea Manning from jail, the court hearing scheduled for today was cancelled, but she still has to pay the $264,000 fine.

Hopefully, someone will create an official fundraiser with a credible fundraising site such as GoFundMe to raise the money to pay her fine.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 15, 2020 6:07 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

The day after I suggested on YouTube that an official fundraiser should be organized to pay for her court fines on GoFundMe, someone did just that:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/Help-Fund-Chelseas-Living-Expenses

It took about one and a half days for the money to be raised! As that fundraiser was exclusively for paying her court fines, a new GoFundMe was created to help her with living expenses:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/Help-Fund-Chelseas-Living-Expenses

I tried to donate to the first fundraiser, but my payments wouldn’t go through, so I checked my account and found that I’m totally broke – I only have 80 Swiss centimes (0.8 of a Swiss Franc) left in my account. The only way I could help was to share the links on Facebook – on my wall and in a group – and on several YouTube videos about her.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 12, 2020 10:19 PM

It’s hilarious. I’ve argued about the staging of this crash on OffG before and after the arguments I made my own blog post and ensured that I made my case clearly to defend against those arguments. I didn’t just put a link to my blog post in my comment below (because commenters can, of course, choose not to consult it) but made the effort to include much of the argument with evidence directly from the media which could not show more clearly that the crash was staged and yet still there is “argument” against staging – no reasonable argument, of course, which isn’t possible because in the staging of events, deliberate anomalies are always present and there is a complete absence of anything convincingly real – they’re scrupulous in that way when they stage – but “argument” nevertheless.

In addition to the “argument” there are a number of downvotes. Can you wonder about how they treat us when people confronted with evidence that could not possibly be clearer still “argue” against it?

The one thing that is in my blog post that I didn’t put in my comment for anyone who’s interested is a more detailed breakdown of the image of the alleged wreckage with bodies.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/did-mh-17-crash-in-eastern-ukraine

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Mar 12, 2020 11:21 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

If you, the reader, of Petras comment, are ired to respond, please consider this comment i made earlier.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/12/the-mh17-show-trial-isnt-about-justice-or-closure-but-information-warfare/#comment-126531
Copied to clipboard!

Sorry Petra, i’m not letting you get away with this. Lets dance.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 13, 2020 12:01 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

And, of course, if one plane crash faked why not another … and another … and another? I do like the creativity of the YouTuber in this one for PS-752, the Ukrainian plane alleged to have crashed in Tehran. https://youtu.be/vftD3hh6Yro

Jcrash
Jcrash
Mar 14, 2020 4:49 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

You are a small minded, naive, insensitive and inexperienced twit. I hate responses like what I am sending to you. I hate name calling. But the sheer stupidity of your post made me very angry. I go to crash sites. It is my job. I know families who bury hands, feet and limbs. I know MH 17 families that did so. I have seen and touched wreckage. I have seen and touched pieces of the weapon. The murdering, lying, propaganda masters from Russia did this. Period. A person of some intelligence and who’s eyes really see the broken world the way it is, know that this was a real horrific tragedy and not some fantasy to entertain idiots like you.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 14, 2020 5:26 PM
Reply to  Jcrash

The murdering, lying, propaganda masters from Russia did this.

Complete and utter bullshit. There is zero evidence that Russia was involved, and a mountain of evidence that the Ukraine did this.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 14, 2020 8:44 PM
Reply to  Jcrash

The murdering, lying, propaganda masters from Russia did this. Period.

Proof that you are wrong:

http://www.donbass-insider.com/2020/03/12/mh17-the-trial-of-shame-has-begun-in-the-netherlands/

Jcrash
Jcrash
Mar 14, 2020 11:54 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

News articles are not proof. You do not know what evidence is. You are not involved. You are not close enough to know anything. You are a useful idiot. A troll. A lost soul. With no hope of being anything else.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 15, 2020 5:15 AM
Reply to  Jcrash

Oh look – it is Crispy back with a new handle and potato!

ROTFLMFAO!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 15, 2020 8:11 AM
Reply to  Jcrash

Stop the projection, YOU Ukronazi troll.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 14, 2020 11:20 PM
Reply to  Jcrash

I know families who bury hands, feet and limbs.

Please give your proper name, who you work for and credentials and then you will have some credibility. Otherwise, you have zero.

Jcrash
Jcrash
Mar 14, 2020 11:57 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Might have credibility. But not security. Playing your wasteful game just became too risky. Good luck hating.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 16, 2020 7:29 AM
Reply to  Jcrash

Keep up the lying, old boy-it suits your type.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 16, 2020 7:28 AM
Reply to  Jcrash

I believe your supposed biography not one jot.

Mishko
Mishko
Apr 30, 2020 1:57 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I applaud your consistency and sense of conviction.
PC language tends to steer into a nowhere where we sort of
agree to disagree w/o saying So.

Detail: dutch PM Mark Rutte attended the festive Global Citizens Award
hosted by the Atlantic Council in augustus 2019.
https://atlanticcouncil.org/events/flagship-event/global-citizen-awards/mark-rutte/

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Mar 12, 2020 8:41 PM

Never ending show trials ..Lockerbie! (Russia wasn’t no 1 bogey then)… Magetsky …Skripals…Douma…to this and Assange and Salmond here!

Meanwhile no Russian Intelligence Committee report, no child abuse Inquiry or trials etc

If anyone doubts we live in a DS cauldron in a junta run government with fixed elections and Media spreading propaganda – how many more absurd narratives do you need?

Koba
Koba
Mar 12, 2020 8:06 PM

“ Nobody should criticize the victims’ families and thus make this all the more harder for them to deal with” how about no! Let’s criticise them

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:15 PM
Reply to  Koba

They have suffered great tragedies, then been ruthlessly brainwashed with the threat of instant MSM vilification if they deviate from the script, so, no, we shouldn’t criticise them.

paul
paul
Mar 12, 2020 5:43 PM

I remember the day this happened. I told some Eastern European people I know who hadn’t heard about it and they didn’t want to know any details, just became highly agitated and started jumping up and down, shouting, “Putin! Russia!! Putin! Russia!! Putin! Russia!!”

The following day the Daily Bugle and all the rest of the MSM were screaming, “Putin Murderer!! Putin’s Victims!! Putin’s Thugs!!”

When I first saw the photos, the wrecked cockpit was riddled with what looked like machine gun bullets to me. It seemed highly likely, to coin a phrase, that it had been brought down by short range gunfire targeting the pilots.

Whether that’s what actually happened, I don’t know.

Historians are divided about King Charles I, who was put on trial and beheaded in 1649.
Some think he was an out and out tyrant, others that he was just a weak and foolish man.
It’s possible to make out a case for either point of view.
But whatever side they take, none would argue that the issue was decided on the authority of the kangaroo court of the time that declared him a tyrant.

It’s the same with our hopelessly compromised, corrupt, politicised “judicial” systems, tools of persecution and intimidation. Courts like this lack all credibility and integrity and no one needs to take them seriously. They can be casually ignored – just like the US and Israel ignore the ICC.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 12, 2020 10:25 PM
Reply to  paul

I’m not good at projectile impacts Paul but as the evidence shows this was staged I wouldn’t be surprised if your supposition that the cockpit was riddled with machine gun bullets is correct … and then there’s the issue of us being shown cockpits that look different from each other.

Certainly, it doesn’t look as if it was riddled with the projectiles described below, does it?

In the first video at this ABC News article (at 2:51), they tell us:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/breaking-mh17-crash-reports-findings/story?id=34441015

The aeroplane was perforated by hundreds of high-energy objects shaped like cubes and bow-ties.

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Mar 13, 2020 12:59 AM
Reply to  paul

It was, I believe, Geoffery Robertson who declared that Charles got far better justice than he ever gave any of his people.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Mar 12, 2020 4:33 PM

Good article , however the vested interests in the west will continue to spin this monstrous lie . It was obvious the day this happened that only ukrainian fascists had anything to gain from this act of savagery. The Dutch should be ashamed of themselves for facilitating this fraud .

Mishko
Mishko
Apr 30, 2020 2:23 AM
Reply to  mcdonagh4

I am dutch, and amazed how -dutch- people keep on going
with the “Russia Russia” no matter what.
I admit to being a fan of The Poetinator, un frere de poetain so to speak.

But apart from my warm admiration for his eloquence and statesman-ship,
there were too much shenanigans mixed in the whole situation.
The Russians provided radar data, and the all the officials do
is act and complain like a bunch of winey bitches without any
sense of duty or proper decorum.

Mr. crypto-jew bonesman John Kerry had the satelite images
but refused to hand them over because FU little people.
The Ukraine has been granted veto right in the JIT investigation.
That in itself gives the game away in my perspective.

And Bellingcat. What a creepy asshole. Words fail me, ugh.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 12, 2020 12:52 PM

The MH-17 trial is simply charade as the MH-17 plane crash was staged and very obviously so.

Go to webpage (https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/did-mh-17-crash-in-eastern-ukraine) or read below

IMAGE OF BODIES AND SHREDDED WRECKAGE
http://nrt24.ru/en/news/russia-has-counter-evidence-regarding-probe-mh17-crash-ukraine
In the image in the above article we see:

  • Zero aspects of the bodies and aircraft debris favouring real over faked
  • Absence of any visuals of blood, severance edge or other indicators of violence (these are not essential but obviously their absence does not help in making the image compellingly real)
  • The flesh tone is perfectly even which doesn’t match reality and doesn’t really look the colour of flesh
  • The extremely shredded debris is difficult to relate to an airliner and if it did come from an airliner, the degree of shredding seems both unusual and difficult to match to the relative intactness of the much softer bodies.

CONTRADICTORY IMAGES OF COCKPITS (1 AND 2)
1 – https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/mh17-east-ukraine-malaysian-airlines-flight-kuala-lumpur-amsterdam-russia-17-july-2014-1024693-2017-07-17

2 – https://tass.com/world/1081006

​1: Dirty marks around cockpit windows / 2: No dirty marks

1: Vertical hole under first window straight and does not extend / 2: Curved hole.that extends more thickly

1. Small hole under right vertical frame of second window / 2. Much more extended hole and the start of the hole a different shape

1. Little crinkling at red and blue stripes / 2. Great deal of crinkling at red and blue stripes

LACK OF CREDIBILITY IN ALLEGED PROJECTILES

In the first video at this ABC News article (at 2:51), they tell us:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/breaking-mh17-crash-reports-findings/story?id=34441015

The aeroplane was perforated by hundreds of high-energy objects shaped like cubes and bow-ties.

Really, cubes and bow-ties? Wouldn’t the physics be against such military projectiles? And what would be the purpose of the two different types?

RAINING BODIES?
Text accompanying a video published one year on by the Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168095/Harrowing-new-footage-captures-moment-traumatised-couple-watch-MH17-victims-fall-sky-wreckage-crashes-field.html

‘It’s raining bodies’: Harrowing new video captures the moment traumatised couple watch MH17 victims fall from the sky as they drive past burning wreckage in Ukraine
— Shocking video captured on mobile phone as couple drove past field
— Man shouts: ‘F***! So many people! Someone’s leg, did you see that?’
— Woman so disturbed she says she can’t stay and insists on driving away

Harrowing new footage of the moment parts of MH17 crashed into a Ukrainian field has emerged one year on from the tragedy.

The shaky mobile video entitled ‘It’s raining bodies’ has been released on the internet and was shot by a traumatised couple as they drove past the scene where the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 was shot down, killing all 298 people on board.

The woman is so disturbed by seeing people falling from the blitzed plane amid the burning wreckage that she cannot stay and insists on driving away.

Comment:
​The video only shows some burning in the distance without any evidence of what the people in the video refer to. Why would they say, “It’s raining bodies,” when there is no footage of a plane actually crashing and while the Daily Mail reports that that is what is said these words are not presented in the subtitles.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 12, 2020 1:37 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Oh and here’s the grief-stricken Maslin parents of three young children who allegedly died on MH-17. The dad says that he doesn’t feel anger to those who caused it to come down (oh haven’t we all heard that lack of emotion before?), he feels something much worse – pity. Much worse to feel pity than anger, eh?

Mishko
Mishko
Apr 30, 2020 2:38 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

In this fragment the guy is smiling, but because some time has passed
I do not want to call that out as duping delight. But definately strange.
https://youtu.be/i_ll6AlkajE

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 3:59 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

A body was found on a tree, some bodies were found on rooftops. Other bodies were found in gardens. Body parts were found scattered over a fairly large area.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Koba
Koba
Mar 12, 2020 8:11 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Provide evidence then vierotchka

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 4:50 AM
Reply to  Koba

Here you go.

Excerpts:

Bodies dropped from the sky onto streets and houses like weights as the burning Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 disintegrated as it plummeted to the ground, rural Ukrainians recalled.

and

Nikolai Kovannyi, 45, said he saw the body of a woman and another body he thought might have been her infant son falling to the ground.

“The baby was caught among the branches of a tree and his body was not broken. His mother … it could have been his mother … fell on the ground. They were not far from each other,” he said, declining to describe the condition of the woman’s body.

Marina Volkova, 45, said: “I was in my house when I heard two booms outside. Then something fell on my roof.

“My husband ran out to investigate. He came back in a state of shock.”

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-ukrainian-villagers-recall-the-day-bodies-fell-from-the-0

At the time, I saw quite a few videos in which several local witnesses said that bodies landed atop trees and on rooftops.

See also:

‘It’s raining bodies’: Harrowing new video captures the moment traumatised couple watch MH17 victims fall from the sky as they drive past burning wreckage in Ukraine

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168095/Harrowing-new-footage-captures-moment-traumatised-couple-watch-MH17-victims-fall-sky-wreckage-crashes-field.html

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:17 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

It’s very, very, nassty stuff, though, isn’t it.

Koba
Koba
Mar 12, 2020 8:10 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

A real pity your Indian article won’t let me past there daft cookie screen

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Mar 12, 2020 9:47 PM
Reply to  Koba

Here is another instance of the same photo:
https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018/07/391798/mh17-how-dozen-persons-secured-evidence-bodies-ground-zero

Also all the images are displayed on my webpage for easier comparison.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/blog/did-mh-17-crash-in-eastern-ukraine

I always accept cookies, Koba. You can delete them later but I don’t really bother. Perhaps I should.
— (In Chrome) click three vertical dots at top right
— Click Settings
— Under Privacy and security click Site settings
— Click Cookies and site data
— Click See all cookies and site data
— Delete cookies for individual sites as desired

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Mar 12, 2020 8:22 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Flaxgirl got so sick and psychotic i advised her to tune out for a few weeks and look at nature as i was worried she was spinning out…

She came back as Petra !

I suggest the same to you as I did to Petra and maybe seek some help?

For everyone else inclined to reply to ‘her’ i would suggest not to and treat as one does with genuine trolls. DRDADE.

crispy
crispy
Mar 12, 2020 11:29 AM

Oh dear,Off guardian still publishing pro Putin propaganda

As soon as i looked at the name of the author of this article i knew as was going to be treated to the usual pro kremlin trash

Korybko is a kremlin shill,really not a serious person

As for Putin he’s just a sly sleazy criminal, and yes it was his fault this plane got shot down,as he started this crisis in Ukraine, due to his inability to except the fact that Ukraine rejected his bent so called alternative

Ukraine isn’t going to join anything Russia has to offer, because Putin hasn’t got anything to offer

Putin, a criminal, and backwards looking failure of a man, who can’t except the collapse of that totalitarian shit pit the USSR which unfortunately gave birth to this odious prick

Putin is driving his country towards slow motion decline and irrelevance,the sooner he’s gone the better

Sid
Sid
Mar 12, 2020 2:45 PM
Reply to  crispy

Yawn…

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 3:48 PM
Reply to  crispy

You are simply projectig your own flaws onto Putin.

crispy
crispy
Mar 12, 2020 4:22 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

…but Putin,well he’s a dictator, born intoba totalitarian state

I’m afraid your wrong my dear I’m just pointing out a few facts

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 6:38 PM
Reply to  crispy

You wouldn’t know a facct if it sliced and diced and salted and peppered and spiced and dipped in batter and deep fried and force fed you your pox-ridden glutes, pudding.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:21 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

V, you’ve got a feisty side! Very good proposal, ‘modest’, even.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 2:45 AM

I’ve got many sides – you haven’t seen one tenth of them! 😉

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 13, 2020 11:44 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Stick it to the creepy little sod V.
One of the best responses I’ve ever seen to one of our odious trolls at OffG. Unfortunately, this site, being what it is, is always going to attract them.
I usually do the DRDADE… Don’t read, don’t answer, don’t engage.
Tho I did respond to Crispy Duck a while ago, and regretted it.

Tim Jenkins
Tim Jenkins
Mar 14, 2020 9:38 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

CFCs reproduce CFDs … & CFDs+Ds, worse still:-
crispy fried ducks & dunces, with awful spelling bees.
CFD+D must ‘Accept’, constructive critical correction,
of Mafia Monarchists’ gaffers,

“…who can’t except the collapse of that totalitarian shit pit…”

D’UKErainians, i say 😉 :- and, as ever, (in the highly unlikely case that others are concerned about what’s happening in reality, on the Balkans), NATO is swivelling puppet PM’s on their middle finger and Borisov has announced ‘Lockdown’ until mid-April, whilst he used the National Celebratory Day of remembrance of freedom and beating the Ottoman Turks, with Russian assistance @Shipka, to visit his own personal business interests in Turkey: he also had NATO Refugee & Migrant business to ‘Handle’, whilst using the virus as a cover story for closing all celebrations in Sofia, threatening journalists with a migration invasion,” if they want” and arranging for BNT (the Bg. BBC), to censor President Radev’s speech by cutting his transmission to the Nation from the top of Shipka and
Bulgarian National Tv blaming bad weather, though…
Kanal 3 were able to transmit. Radev opposes Borisov, and is therefore now being censored on State TV… President Radev (Ex-General of the Airforce and highest rating by NATO Command Strategy in 2009, found on Wikileaks) and everybody with a brain, not suckered, knows the NATO/EU reality now, same ole’, same ole’, MIC mafia empires’
games & goals
just gone viral …

Greetings Gezzah,
Keep the ‘Conscience’ Whole 😉
in this warmest Winter of discontent,
expect a heatwave & water shortages.
All our reservoirs are empty: record low precipitation levels,
in this ‘greenhouse’ we’ve created, exporting electricity for corporate returns, whilst sacrificing our own huge reserves: eg. to Greece.
I remember real mountain ‘Dew’:
most seem wholly oblivious to the nature & natural moisture,
but very soon, tables will turn and ‘water tables’ 🙂
as people learn to share water,
instead of engineering for corporate gain,
& moreover control.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 14, 2020 1:05 PM
Reply to  Tim Jenkins

Hey Tim, good to hear from you. I was under the impression Crispy Pork Crackling was in the far far left Spartacist League like Espartaco? Maybe I’m mistaken as someone else here mentioned he was Ukrainian.
Am trying to DRDADE, even when fecken Louis Proyectile shows up.
Jesus… Bulgaria in lockdown until mid April? So much is happening so fast now, its difficult to keep up now.
I think the Czech Republic has gone into lockdown as well and Austria a partial lockdown? Correct me if I’m wrong, I read that somewhere, but a long day, really tired, and it’s 11.50 pm in Melbourne.
A lot of people are in for a huge shock, especially when the Economic Titanic sails off the cliff into the deep abyss… taking many people with it.
I’m much more worried about the consequences of the economic meltdown than the Coronavirus.
These bastards at the very top have slaughtered millions. They couldn’t give a fuck how many hundreds of millions die. They already have lakes of blood on their hands. They’re going for the entire Planet. Every square mile.
I was about to ask if you had a decent vegie garden, then reread your comment: ‘all our reservoirs are empty, record low precipitation levels’… and you’re heading into summer.
I see what you mean about discontent.
Things are going to get really turbulent and more surreal than an LSD trip pretty damn soon.
Buckle up Tim. Good luck to you and your family😁

crispy
crispy
Mar 15, 2020 10:06 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Ah, Louis a real hero,proper lefty

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 15, 2020 10:43 PM
Reply to  crispy

DRDADE…. 🔇🤔

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 16, 2020 7:37 AM
Reply to  crispy

A flea with a rat as a hero-there is a metaphor there, somewhere.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 16, 2020 7:36 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Gezzah, The Collapse is here. The final implosion of the debt bubble has commenced. Covid19 will devastate populations and economies. The climate destabilisation Holocaust is accelerating. The other ecological Holocausts are all rapidly worsening. And the insane, racist, hatred of China that drove this bio-warfare attack, and the earlier African Swine Fever and bird flu attacks, is growing utterly demented. This Is It. Good Luck, and get to The Land of the Wrong White Crowd, pronto.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 16, 2020 11:01 AM

I know it is Richard. Things are happening fast now. The great unravelling…
I wonder how long it is before Australia is put in lockdown? I hear Universities and Schools will be closed soon, and large shopping centres.
Good luck to you and your family.
Am just taking things day by day. I was going back to NZ anyway.
All the monstrous psychopaths who caused this horror will be hiding out there. In their bunkers.

Koba
Koba
Mar 12, 2020 8:12 PM
Reply to  crispy

You’re either an ultra lefty weirdo or you’re a Brit shill

crispy
crispy
Mar 12, 2020 10:56 PM
Reply to  Koba

Eh, no, actually the whole point of Off Guardian was to cater for the rather odd tastes of ‘ ultra lefty weirdo’ types,who’d got themselves banned from the official Guardian

For me this site is nothing more than a drive by curiosity

I’ll appeal to the mods,but perhaps this one will also go down the memory hole!

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Mar 13, 2020 12:21 AM
Reply to  crispy

Funny – we’ve just been called Reaganites on Twitter and ‘ultra Lefty weirdos’ by you. It seems idiots will label anything they don’t understand as embodying the opposite of themselves or their beliefs and being therefore hateful.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 13, 2020 10:22 PM
Reply to  crispy

Drive by…on the way to pick up its cheque at the Integrity Initiative.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:21 PM
Reply to  crispy

Reeks of Ukronazi psychosis.

Gall
Gall
Mar 12, 2020 11:03 PM
Reply to  crispy

You got a perfect handle for someone who’s brain is totally fried like a KFC chicken 🙂

lundiel
lundiel
Mar 12, 2020 4:37 PM
Reply to  crispy

As soon as I looked at the name crispy i knew as was going to be treated to the usual anti-Putin/Russian tabloid intelligence level propaganda.
Crispy shit pit odious prick etc.

paul
paul
Mar 12, 2020 5:10 PM
Reply to  crispy

Oh dear, an obnoxious little turd is spreading its usual poison.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:20 PM
Reply to  crispy

Integrity Initiative scrapes bottom of barrel, or Azov Battalion butcher with no ‘Moskalis’ to torture, getting bored.

paul
paul
Mar 14, 2020 12:21 AM

Those boys at 77 Bde have to take whoever they can get.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
Mar 12, 2020 10:57 PM
Reply to  crispy

”… he (Putin, of course) started this crisis in Ukraine, due to his inability to except the fact that Ukraine rejected his bent so called alternative.”

I think you’ll find that it was Yanukovich’s rejection of the EU’s Association Agreement that precipitated the events in the Maidan. These events were funded and sponsored by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and Soros’ Open Society. According to Victoria Nuland, the then Assistant Secretary for Eastern European affairs, the coup cost a cost a cool $5 billion – this according to her talk to the American press club in a meeting in Washington this was apparently the going rate for colour revolutions. Prior to this she and the US Ambassador in Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt were openly strolling around Independence Square in Kiev at the height of the events encouraging the likes of Right Sector, Svoboda, and various other ultra-nationalist groups to overthrow the legitimate President Yanukovich.

Just what right the Americans had to interfere in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation state. But of course I forget that the US is the exceptional nation – a rouge elephant running amok whose policy is quite simple.1. The US should rule the world. 2. This means dominating those nations – europe in particular – and 3.waging war against those other nations who want to defend their sovereignty.

Capricornia Man
Capricornia Man
Mar 13, 2020 1:11 AM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Thank you, Francis, for stating the plain facts so clearly and succinctly. Doubt whether you’ll get a coherent response from Crispy, though – or any response at all!

Brozza
Brozza
Mar 13, 2020 9:39 AM
Reply to  Francis Lee

A rouge elephant eh?
Perhaps a pink elephant is apt, as the U$ is really dumb when it comes to attempted covering up of their numerous ‘misdeeds’ around the world since at least ww2.

Baron
Baron
Mar 12, 2020 11:10 PM
Reply to  crispy

You got released too early, crispy.

Ever heard of cui bono? The Romans figured it first. Today, it’s the foundation of many a legal system world over. Your ranting contradicts it, in what way has Russia benefitted from the downing of the MH17 airliner, heh?

crispy
crispy
Mar 14, 2020 10:44 AM
Reply to  crispy

53 down vote thingies

wow!

Loverat
Loverat
Mar 12, 2020 11:03 AM

I think what is concerning about the official MH17 narrative is not just the discrepancies which have been highlighted but as mentioned below, the long track record of miscarriages of justice and false pretexts. The list is endless – even over 25 years from questionable events in Bosnia, then Kosovo, Iraq, Libya and Syria the most shocking of all. Aside from the doubts expressed by various independent journalists/researchers about this, anyone with a functioning brain and attention span of a few minutes must doubt this official narrative.

This event follows the pattern of all the others subsequently disproven – blame first, politicising, smearing doubters and and media hysteria. The onus of proof falls strongly on those making the allegations, especially so their previous lies and crimes follow them like a stench.

The truth will come out on this and if (and I’m open to a number of possible scenarios) Ukraine and allies are responsible and there was a cover up, the anger of the relatives of the victims will likely act as a catalyst to prosecute and throw away the key for all those who covered up a crime against humanity and promoted misinformation. And heightened global tensions and endangered all of us.

In the meantime, those of us who think critically and ask perfectly valid questions should continue to rise above the politicising and noise and be sensitive to the relatives of the victims. The unravelling of the OPCW narrative into a farce may be just the start of unravelling of this and other questionable events. We may learn one day, the relatives have been used as pawns in a much bigger game and the fury will engulf those who took part.

lundiel
lundiel
Mar 12, 2020 12:58 PM
Reply to  Loverat

The truth will come out on this and if (and I’m open to a number of possible scenarios) Ukraine and allies are responsible and there was a cover up, the anger of the relatives of the victims will likely act as a catalyst to prosecute and throw away the key for all those who covered up a crime against humanity and promoted misinformation. And heightened global tensions and endangered all of us.

I wouldn’t hold your breath. After 30 years and the conviction and subsequent death of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi for the Lockerbie bombing, apart from a few of the victim’s relatives who campaigned against a wrongful conviction, it is only now that there is political interest in reopening the case.
I bet a straw poll, if conducted today, would find a huge majority believing al-Megrahi was rightly found guilty.

Loverat
Loverat
Mar 12, 2020 2:22 PM
Reply to  lundiel

I wouldn’t be so sure. Douma from 2018 has now been debunked. Yes, we still need to chip away at the ignorance in the general public because MSM still largely not reporting that. But as one huge lie gets exposed and more widely reported the others will go. There’s too many people starting to question, and mainstream journalists coming over slowly. Once a bit of momentum builds they’ll all start to come out of denial mode. That’s human nature and what the powers of be are terrified of.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:24 PM
Reply to  lundiel

Megrahi’s biography outlines the fabrications there, as does ‘The Maltese Double-Cross’ video. The Dutch elite are as morally corrupt as is imaginable.

Jen
Jen
Mar 12, 2020 11:12 PM
Reply to  lundiel

A huge majority of people polled would certainly believe al-Megrahi to be guilty. Whether he actually was guilty is another thing.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 15, 2020 8:20 AM
Reply to  Jen

The truth, that Iran paid the PFLP in Beirut to bring down a US plane as revenge for the deliberate shooting-down of an Iranian air-bus, over the Persian Gulf, by the USS Vincennes, and that the bomb was secreted aboard, inside a radio, by the penetration of a US DEA drug-sting operation, was well-known within weeks. In fact it was thus reported for c.18 months in the Western MSM, but then, when Iranian and Syrian acquiescence was required for the destruction of Iraq in the First Gulf War, the Western MSM presstitutes changed the narrative instantly and completely, and the truth was flushed down the ‘Memory Hole’, and Libya blamed instead. You need truly vile presstitute liars and hypocrites to pull this sort of thing off, and they are as multitudinous as cockroaches, but less appealing.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:22 PM
Reply to  Loverat

Lie after lie, kangaroo court after kangaroo court-the ‘Rule of Law’ in the Glorious West in all its splendour.

paul
paul
Mar 17, 2020 4:13 PM

Instead of wigs and gowns, the judges and barristers should just get togged up in kangaroo outfits.

Mishko
Mishko
Apr 30, 2020 2:54 AM

The International Court Of Justice (YA RLY) that has shown its true colours by
focussing on african militia leaders, and was complicit in the death of Milosevic
and had one suspect commit suicide while in court…

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
Mar 12, 2020 9:15 AM

He we go again. The ever compliant Dutch have, at the bequest of their American masters, been ordered to squeeze every last drop of propaganda out of this episode which in fact still remains a mystery to this day. So starting from the premise: Putin did it: This farce has already been decided in advance. Guilty, guilty, guilty. One would have thought in terms of motive – cui bono? Why would Putin carry out such an irrational act? But such considerations are waived aside; we know who the guilty ones are. This being the stated case there seem little point in pursuing the matter any further.

But hey, if you wish to raise the issue again there was the little matter of Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy. That was an open and shut case and 274 passengers died. Double standards are what? And by the way the US captain, Rogers, as awarded the Legion of Merit “for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer […] from April 1987 to May 1989”. The award was given for his service as the commanding officer of Vincennes from April 1987 to May 1989. The citation made no mention of the downing of Iran Air 655. All conveniently forgotten of course. Then of course there was the Gulf of Tonkin incidents – a farrago of misinformation but which enabled the US to extend its war against Vietnam. Then of course their is the ongoing Assange episode

All of which amply demonstrates 1. The blatant double standards by which the media and the courts present these cases, and 2. The absolute subservience of the Europeans to their American masters.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 9:24 AM
Reply to  Francis Lee

It isn’t really a mystery at all, it is a fake mystery. The BUK belonged to the Ukrainian military.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Mar 12, 2020 4:37 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Agreed and proven at the time.

John A
John A
Mar 12, 2020 8:48 AM

I was wryly amused by the headine in the graun yesterday, though I didn’t bother to read further in that rag, namely:
Lockerbie bomber conviction ‘may have been miscarriage of justice’

You don’t say! Only 30 years late. I wonder if some headline in the 2050s will scream “MH17 shootdown conviction ‘may have been miscarriage of justice'”.
Because, as with the Skripals and Assange, guilty verdict first, sham court proceedings later.

Gall
Gall
Mar 12, 2020 8:36 AM

Show trials have now moved the west after once being a feature of the Soviet Union.

wardropper
wardropper
Mar 12, 2020 5:53 PM
Reply to  Gall

The west isn’t so bad at doing its own show trials when high political reputations are at stake, but I’d agree that they are becoming every bit as shameless as anything McCarthy ever carried out.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:26 PM
Reply to  wardropper

In the USA conviction rates, without ‘plea bargaining’, approach 100%. But that’s the ‘Rule of Law’, and don’t forget-it’s better to be guilty and rich, than innocent and poor.

Brozza
Brozza
Mar 13, 2020 9:48 AM

Of course having a private prison system, that reeks of corruption from law enforcement to law enactment, has nothing at all to do with such incredibly high conviction rates, (he says sarcastically).

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 12, 2020 8:32 AM

Just as Julian Assange will be extradited to the United States to face a grotesque show trial there, and almost certainly be found guilty, so too, the 4 ‘defendants’ in this ‘trial’ will be found guilty.
Already, that disgusting toilet paper substitute, The Guardian, has come out with the headline:
‘MH17 trial: Russia Keen to Thwart Investigation Says Prosecutor’.
There you go in a nutshell. As you so aptly point out Andrew.
From the very same sewer who has smeared, lied, censored, and ridiculed Julian Assange. And still profited most handsomely from Wikileaks expose’s.
You just cannot get any lower. Anywhere.
And with this trial, the boot will be stuck into Putin and Russia over and over repeatedly.
Was it Goebbels who said ‘if you repeat a big lie often enough, people will come to believe it’?
And who I really feel sorry for in all this, is the victims families, who will be squeezed like lemons to produce the desired propaganda result.
Like all those children paraded by the White Helmets in Syria.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 8:37 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

I would never use The Guardian as toilet paper, I don’t want my bottom to be covered in ulcers!

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Mar 12, 2020 8:54 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Ugh… Yeah, point taken V. Was about to have a look at the video clip you posted further down.
And yes, correct, it was Kiev who diverted the flight over the conflict zone. I wonder how much coverage that’ll receive in the glorious free press of the Empire.
That was sarcasm btw. I’m almost expecting a few headlines along the lines of… ‘Putin Personally Ordered MH17 Shot Down’.
You know, just like Assange smeared faeces on his walls. Or that pigs fly. Or that true democracy and freedom flourishes in the West.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 15, 2020 8:21 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

‘Putin pressed button himself!’

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:27 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

‘Like to treat like’, doesn’t work with excrement.

lundiel
lundiel
Mar 12, 2020 8:15 AM

Eliot-“suckmyballs”-Bellingcat-Brown Moses-Higgins involvement should alert everyone that the whole thing is a sham and that British intelligence is deeply involved.

Harry Stotle
Harry Stotle
Mar 12, 2020 7:47 AM

Anyone who has confidence in the impartiality of courts convened to investigate the actions of any state that is not aligned with the US is naive in the extreme.

Such parties have about as much chance of receiving justice as Julian Assange does.

It might be different if we had a MSM capable of independent thought, or not in thrall to fake news but instead we have the Beeb and the Guardian neither who can be trusted as far as you can throw them.

Einstein
Einstein
Mar 12, 2020 7:41 AM

It is sad to see learnèd men, such as judges and lawyers, willingly cooperating in this kangaroo court.
What has happened to the Dutch? They seem to have sunk to levels even below the boot-licking British.
When this cynical charade blames innocents to exonerate the evil régime in Kiev, we’ll know that Kabuki theatre is alive and well.

wardropper
wardropper
Mar 12, 2020 5:56 PM
Reply to  Einstein

It’s true. Netherlands has long had a reputation for risking political incorrectness in the pursuit of common decency and justice.
I guess the bribe money is reaching legendary proportions…

Mishko
Mishko
Apr 30, 2020 3:29 AM
Reply to  Einstein

We have become a total cuck nation.
I blame Bilderberg and the pedopower EU aka the NeoLibs.
The Netherlands is a narco state (Commission Van Traa 1994 – 1996).
Alleged pedophilia/child abuse among high officials/elites
(Rolodex-Affaire, shut down) not proven.
The political murder of Pim Fortuyn (RIP 6th may 2002) took place in a MEDIA-park…

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 7:40 AM

A show trial as absurd as the Lockerbie travesty. The Netherlands is a true stooge regime. The sudden transfiguration of the disaster from ghastly accident, to deliberate ‘murder’ is particularly revolting.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 9:27 AM

I don’t think it was an accident at all, Kolomoisky’s declaration notwithstanding.
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/what-is-the-role-of-oligarch-kolomoisky-and-his-private-army-in-the-shot-down-of-mh17/

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 13, 2020 10:27 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Is that the Kolomoisky described in Haaretz ‘..the most powerful Jew in the world’?

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 14, 2020 12:36 AM

Yes.

mcdonagh4
mcdonagh4
Mar 12, 2020 4:41 PM

It was no accident the Ukrainian fascists shot down the airliner in a successful attempt to justify more arms and aid form the US..

Mishko
Mishko
Apr 30, 2020 3:33 AM

Our government just wants the US to be happy.
They are very eager to please, thus the bit of extra effort.
https://www.government.nl/documents/speeches/2019/07/18/speech-by-prime-minister-mark-rutte-at-the-atlantic-council-washington-dc

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 6:42 AM

JIT WITNESS: Two fighter jets were following MH17

Premiered 19 hours ago

Joint Investigation Team interviewed witnesses that confirmed presence of Ukrainian fighter jets near MH17 shortly before the crash. This video features one of these witnesses Alexander Bozenko. We were able to trace him in Donbass rebel territory and check his testimony.

Link to a complete JIT file on the witness can be found in our newsletter https://us4.campaign-archive.com/?u=055d0542fc506a8c7b6067843&id=7b8d85b159

Antonym
Antonym
Mar 12, 2020 5:56 AM

Who benefited from downing civilian MH17?

Not Russia or the rebels it supports, they didn’t need any more bad PR abroad.
Not the Dutch, Malaysians or Australian populations.
West Ukraine wanted to blacken enemy Russia and had the gloves off – so motive available.
The Five Eyes wanted to split Ukraine’s industry from its symbiosis with Russia’s – motive available.
Why did the EU allow civilian air traffic over that semi air war zone? To save some aviation fuel in case of bypass?

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 6:24 AM
Reply to  Antonym

The EU had nothing to do with allowing civilan air traffic over that conflict zone. It is Kiev which instructed MH-17 to divert its flight a bit northward and over the conflict zone.

Malaysian Airlines MH17 Was Ordered to Fly over the East Ukraine Warzone

Malaysian Airlines Confirms that it was Instructed to Fly MH17 at Lower Altitude over East Ukraine

Excerpt:

The flight path on July 17th was changed.

The flight and its operators followed the rules. But on the ground, the rules of war were broken. In an unacceptable act of aggression, it appears that MH17 was shot down; its passengers and crew killed by a missile. (MAS, ibid)

While the audio records of the MH17 flight have been confiscated by the Kiev government, the order to change the flight path did not come from Eurocontrol.

Did this order to change the flight path come from the Ukrainian authorities? Was the pilot instructed to change course?

British Media Fabrications: “Lets Conjure Up a Storm”

British news reports acknowledge that there was a change in the flight path, claiming without evidence that it was to “avoid thunderstorms in southern Ukraine”.

MAS operations director Captain Izham Ismail has also refuted claims that heavy weather led to MH17 changing its flight plan.“There were no reports from the pilot to suggest that this was the case,” Izham said. (News Malaysia July 20, 2014)

What is significant, however, is that the Western media acknowledged that the change in the flight path did occur, and the that “heavy weather” narrative is a fabrication.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-ordered-to-fly-over-the-east-ukraine-warzone/5392540

Gall
Gall
Mar 12, 2020 8:29 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Exactly. That’s a key point that I remembered about the whole affair which places the blame squarely on Ukraine despite whatever other “evidence” these Dutch lackeys fabricate.

crispy
crispy
Mar 12, 2020 11:33 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Globalresearch,fake news, conspiracy website run by nutters

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 3:46 PM
Reply to  crispy

Compared to you, they are the paragon of sanity!

wardropper
wardropper
Mar 12, 2020 6:04 PM
Reply to  crispy

You should consider what it means to be a regular opponent of genuine fact-finding. Surely that’s not exactly an example of mental stability. Or, we could more appositely consider Krishnamurti’s perceptive comment that “it is no measure of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”…
C’mon. It’s not too late. Refuse the peanuts they’re paying you for being an amateur jerk, and think about your moral future.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:30 PM
Reply to  crispy

Pot, kettle.

Gall
Gall
Mar 12, 2020 11:06 PM
Reply to  crispy

Obviously you are suffering from rectal cranial inversion.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
Mar 13, 2020 12:47 PM
Reply to  crispy

Pray what conspiracy did you see printed in Globalresearch? Just asking.

Haltonbrat
Haltonbrat
Mar 12, 2020 6:04 PM
Reply to  Antonym

Who benefited? Was Malaysia being punished for their opposition to Israel?

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:31 PM
Reply to  Haltonbrat

You betcha!

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 4:31 AM

This is a continuation of a centuries-old phenomenon, as is well explained in the article I link here.

March 6, 2020
The Long Roots of Our Russophobia

Exerpt:

The origins of Russophobic discourse date back to a schism in the Church during the Middle Ages when Charlemagne was crowned emperor of the Roman empire and modified the Christian liturgy to introduce reforms execrated by the Eastern Orthodox Churches of the Byzantine empire.

Mettan writes that “the Europe of Charlemagne and of the year 1000 was in need of a foil in the East to rebuild herself, just as the Europe of the 2000s needs Russia to consolidate her union.”

Before the schism, European rulers had no negative opinions of Russia. When Capetian King Henri I found himself a widower, he turned towards the prestigious Kiev kingdom two thousand miles away and married Vladimir’s granddaughter, Princess Ann.

A main goal of the new liturgy adopted by Charlemagne was to undermine any Byzantine influence in Italy and Western Europe.

Over the next century, the schism evolved from a religious into a political one.

The Pope and the top Roman administration made documents disappear and truncated others in order to blame the Easterners.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/06/the-long-roots-of-our-russophobia/

Antonym
Antonym
Mar 12, 2020 5:28 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

The Dutch used to have good connections with Russia: Peter the Great worked “incognito” in the Netherlands and pick up plenty of ideas.

The spoil sports now are the CIA eagles who need an enemy to keep their budgets up. They found another poodle in Europe – Dutch PM Rutte – who is doing their bidding. The whole Dutch establishment- including MSM are following his lead – into the wilderness. They followed him blindly into the biomass burn fiasco, the N2 fiasco and the Natural gas abolishment fiasco. He might not survive a next election.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 5:37 AM
Reply to  Antonym

Indeed – Peter the Great traveled incognito (despite being six feet eight inches tall). He went to Holland to learn shipbuilding. I have an engraving of the simple wooden cabin he lived in during his stay there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czar_Peter_House_(Netherlands)

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 8:53 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Incidentally, Ann of Kiev, Queen Consort of the Franks is my 27th great grandmother, and Henry I, king of France is my 27th great grandfather.

Patrick McGrath
Patrick McGrath
Mar 12, 2020 9:36 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

The novel, The Betrothed Sister by Carol McGrath deals with Ann of Kiev’s family. Apologies for being off topic..

crispy
crispy
Mar 12, 2020 11:38 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

….no its a reaction to authoritarian head bangers like Putin,who’s basically creating a proto fascist,ultra nationalist army to fight his war against the liberal world

An army of fascist scum and their delinquent camp followers in the so called anti war,anti globalisation movement,oh, plus a bunch of angry silly lefty types

He does this because he’s a weak,angry and insecure man,who was brought up and mentally conditioned in a totalitarian Stalinist state

What could possibly be wrong with such a person???

Answers on a post card!

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 3:44 PM
Reply to  crispy

Good gracious, how utterly wrong you are. It is abundantly clear that you don’t have the first scintilla of the first iota of the foggiest idea about Putin.

You are full of hatred. That kind of hatred is the result of the distillation of ignorance by the fire of fear.

crispy
crispy
Mar 12, 2020 4:11 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Tell me what part is false?

Putin born and brought up in a totalitarian state

Trys as hard as he can to undermine western liberal order,because the weaker it is the more impressive he looks,domestically and on the international stage

Constantly plays the big victim

Constantly plays the big ‘ Russia saved the world from fascists’

Encourage fascist and neo Nazis in Europe,ask yourself do you encourage such people?

Do such people have hearts of gold?

He’s basically taken it upon himself to now stand as president for life,more like dictator for life!

By all accounts life is becoming more authoritarian in Russia,journalists,bloggers and activists are all targeted,some murdered,others beaten up,or giving criminal conviction in real kangaroo courts

If you want a proper discussion on Putin lets have one,but i don’t think its the kind of thing Off Guardian likes to encourage,hense my opening comments about the author of this article,who pedals feel good blather about people who really should be exposed for what they are,criminals!

Its called propaganda,now lets see if the moderator will allow me the right to reply?

Maybe if they do we’ll have a debate

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Mar 12, 2020 10:32 PM
Reply to  crispy

Ukronazi for sure. In a basement in Kiev, possibly, or somewhere in the emigre’ infestations.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 12:17 AM
Reply to  crispy

All of it is false, and just as false is your above response to me.

wardropper
wardropper
Mar 12, 2020 6:10 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

It may not be hatred. Just humdrum peskiness of the kind which can be bought cheaply by some vested interests.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 12, 2020 6:40 PM
Reply to  wardropper

You are far too generous!

wardropper
wardropper
Mar 12, 2020 10:08 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Perhaps you’re right …
I reserve the right to change my mind though …

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
Mar 13, 2020 1:01 PM
Reply to  crispy

”Putin,who’s basically creating a proto fascist,ultra nationalist army to fight his war against the liberal world.”

The only ‘proto fascist ultra nationalist army’, you are likely to see in the Ukraine are the US/EU backed irregular militias comprising of Svoboda, Right-Sector, the Azov Battalion, the Tornado Battalion, the Aidar Battalion all who hail from all points west of Kiev, stretching back to the Lviv and the Carpathians.

Whisper it softly, but of course all of this is consistent with US foreign policy; it is an open secret that the US, along with the vassal Saudis, has backed, trained and paid for the most reactionary jihadists, and whabbist ultras in their wars against other countries not controlled by the US.

crispy
crispy
Mar 13, 2020 3:37 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Yawn!

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Mar 13, 2020 6:48 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

You forgot to mention that these militias you mentioned are for the most part neo-Nazi and quite openly so.