The official figures for 24 countries across Europe show, not only that overall mortality is not increasing, but – so far – it is actually well below recent averages.
The statistics were gathered by the European Monitoring of Excess Mortality for Public Health Action (EuroMOMO), an international partnership of agencies from 24 European nations aiming to promote preparedness for public health emergencies.
They track “excess mortality”, meaning the number of officially recorded deaths vs the average death rate.
We recommend you check their website, where each country is broken down by age demographics. Today, we’re focusing on their maps.
Here is the map showing Europe’s excess mortality for Week 12 of 2020 (19th-25th March):
As you can see, currently, the vast majority of Europe shows “no excess”. That means deaths are either at or below expected levels. Italy is the one obvious exception. But note it is only on “high”, not “very high”.
For some context, maybe we should compare it to previous years.
Here is week 6 of 2019:
As you can see, it’s generally much worse. Several countries in “above average”, Spain and Portugal on “high”, and France is even “very high”.
We didn’t have a global lockdown in 2019.
Here are weeks 1 & 2 of 2018:
This was the height of the huge 2017/18 flu season. As you can see, Europe was greatly affected.
We didn’t have a global lockdown in 2018.
Week 2 of 2017 was even worse:
The whole of Western Europe experienced a huge spike in excess mortality, especially bad in all the Mediterranean countries.
We didn’t have a global lockdown in 2017.
Obviously, things may change (week 13’s results are due tomorrow), but – as it stands – the 2020 figures are substantially lower than the previous three years.
So, the question is, if we didn’t have a lockdown in 2017, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2018, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2019….why do we have a lockdown now?
For direct-transfer bank details click here.
MOMO report week 15, 2020:
“Pooled mortality estimates from the EuroMOMO network continue to show a marked increase in excess all-cause mortality overall for the participating European countries, coinciding with the current COVID-19 global pandemic.”
Much the same as 2017 according to their info.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?
All the world now hears every tree fall.
The problem is that there is one major difference.
You compare the data from the past years to the current state without mentioning, that we have drastic prevention systems nowdays. And we really don’t know how it would look like without them.
Miss the point much?
Depends on whether the wily seasonal flu gets through where the dumbass COVID can’t much.
The previous flu seasons had prevention systems…..flu shots (vaccines)
I’d have loved actual numbers, how many in EU got infected and died, and so on per country … in March 2019 apparently 15,000 died of flu! Im not clear because nothing here says what >7 or <3.5 means, I know the symbols, more or less than … but what’s the 7? 7%, or 7,000, or 7million infected?
I went to link and is not much more explicative … yeah, I can see the thousands, and ages … but it still doesn’t easily explain what any given # means …
Someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about here.
In the UK there are 614,000+ deaths a year. With COVID19 deaths so far at 6,000 that’s <1%. Even Italy's 15,000 is less than 3%.
So why the big fuss?
a) We did indeed have considerably fewer deaths from winter flu this year, in Europe, thanks to a record mild winter. Ironically this may have "saved" temporarily some vulnerable people, who otherwise would not have been alive, to then die from COVID19;
b) Compression. The COVID deaths are happening within a period of 2 months.
c) If you look at any list of what people die from over a year, anywhere, the Big Beasts (CVD, cancer, diabetes) are always on top and vary little from month to month; they so over-predominate that even something like COVID19 initially makes little difference;
d) nonetheless, this is an infectious disease, unlike the Big Beasts. So if we did *nothing* COVID would quickly rise to the top of the list, with hundreds of thousands rather than thousands of excess deaths;
e) that would also mean the collapse of the health system, not least due to the deaths of many doctors and nurses, which would cause collateral deaths;
f) the people who die of COVID19 would otherwise have died from months to (in the case of some younger deaths) decades later, so its ultimate burden – the loss of those who would otherwise have lived – is spread over a long time period.That's the true mortality you need to be talking about.
Don't just ignore this piece – tell others to ignore it.
Your points “d” through “f” don’t seem well supported.
Care to provide some data? In particular, I would be interested to know how and why “herd immunity” refuses to work with this particular strain of corona virus but works with all others.
Also, I would be grateful if you could please help me understand how SARS-COV-2 would “rise to the top of the list” when the ratio of detected infections vs. tests seems to be static. That seems to suggest rather strongly that there isn’t large growth in the rate of infection.
It seems that Swiss and German ICUs are showing no more than normal patient load, and in fact Germany is showing falling numbers of cases of acute respiratory diseases.
So it would appear that your apocalyptic visions aren’t supported by publicly available data.
Oh, I get it, the “social distancing” is working, just like the tiger siren in Alaska.
So… what about this??w=600&h=325
It shows the rate of new infections is the same before and after the curfew.
The text accompanying this picture is here https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
All the countries that did not go into lockdown did not have worse conditions than countries that did. Some countries went into lockdown after the deaths had peaked and were already declining and so show that the lockdown measures were pointless and prevented nothing.
All the latest serology anti-body tests done in numerous countries all confirm a fatality rate of 0.1-0.4%.
Thats the same as the common flu. Flu lasts for a season, at most approx. 70 days. Compression?????
This pandemic is a lie.
Agree completely. Whether we’ve been duped or have duped ourselves, we may never know.
Week 13 now released, showing no general spike in total deaths.
Italy and Spain’s late March 2020 death totals are about where they were at peak periods in past flu seasons, 2017 (both), 2018 (both), and (Spain only) 2019. France’s totals have hardly moved. AFAICT, this data reflects conditions through about March 26. No sign of armaggedon.
If you look at the refreshed figures for last week that have come out this week, you will see that they have gone up significantly, as well as the reported stats for this week starting to show the upward curve of two weeks ago. This is because this type of statistics are for monthly and yearly reporting; the weekly snapshots show a minimum number of deaths because it takes a few weeks for the data to be recorded, sent and processed. The death dates are reported dates, which are between two and 10 days after the actual death, and then those reports take time to reach the national statistics database. Processing used to take a couple of days, but since 2018 has been taking much longer, so the metadata clearly states that this is not the place to look for accurate stats for the previous week, as actual deaths will always be higher and they don’t yet know by how much.
I invite you to read their methodology. In it they explain that data collection varies by country. For the most important case here, Italy, all deaths are reported within 72 hours, Death+3days, so there is not much delay.
There is no country that reports some kind of lump-sum of deaths weeks later. Deaths are reported on a sliding scale. They give estimates for what % of deaths are reported by what point, e.g. 50% by Death+3days and 95% by Death+10days in some cases. When the full data comes in, they slightly adjust (blue line [adjusted] vs. red line [original]).
There remains no evidence for any spike in deaths above usual peak-flu activity, and no justification for this kind of response.
Hi thanks for your points. I would like to suggest that comparing previous year excess mortality with current ones is not going to yield accurate results. As you rightly indicate, there are lockdowns going on, whose purpose of course is to stop transmission. If indeed these lockdowns are having the desired effect of lowering projected death rate due to Covid-19, it is only inevitable that the excess death rate would not far outstrip that in previous years. But that equally proves the efficacy of the lockdown.
It doesn’t prove the efficacy of the lockdown. If you shout virus, and keep people inside, and the mortality numbers remain the same, it proves nothing that the numbers remain the same and that somebody has been shouting. Obviously you have not only no scientific training… but you are making a classical mistake in basic logic.
What does give a good indication of scam and collective hysteria is that in London a large morgue has been built , there are reports everywhere of hospitals not having enough capacity to treat the ill, etc.
Now, if people note down the building of the morgue, and keep up with the official mortality rates in the UK for week 14 and 15 (and if possible localized numbers), we will see. Likely the authorities will keep the personnel working here silent, and the lying mouth of the press bureau will provide us with information.
As for lack of a large wave of deaths proving the efficacy of the lockdown, I am sure I don’t have to tell you there is a risk of a serious(ly damaging) logical fallacy in that.
Relatedly, I have an anti-monster device. Yesterday I turned it on and plugged in your name and pressed ‘activate.’ No monsters attacked you for the day. I have protected you from monster attacks! I pressed the button, and none attacked, right? I’ll generously keep using my Anti-Monster Protection Device on your behalf, but operating these anti-monster devices is not free. I think $50 per day is a fair price. I mean, monster attacks! Fear!
How do you know he wasn’t attacked by a monster?
I agree with you by the way.
If lockdown works, the best places to prove it are countries without it, like Sweden.
We could argue uselessly about comparisons of deaths in different countries.
What I direct your attention to is the shape of the “time v daily deaths” function.
It’s the same in Sweden as in lockdown counties.
Nowhere is there a change in slot of the function dating back to when lockdown was started.
For an all-powerful phenomenon, lockdown keeps its effects awfully well hidden.
In my view, the “leaky lockdown” (my description) is so leaky that it’s efficacy in slowing transmission is very slight. That’s the view of the Swedes who considered & rejected it. WHO documents specific that lockdown & social distancing has no evidential basis behind it.
If anyone disagrees, let them cite the compelling evidence.
The latest on Serology/Antibody Testing is a follows:
People in Britain should soon be able to secure an at-home coronavirus antibody test via Amazon or Boots and other high-street retail chemists, Public Health England said Wednesday.
But don’t all rush at once – it’s just another case of old wine in new bottles.
The UK government has ordered 3.5 million of the tests, and the claim is that the test will detect antibodies that an individual produces when fighting the virus. What you are not being told is that serology or antibody tests are unreliable as you can test positive due to current or past health conditions other than being due to the alleged coronavirus being the cause.
Moreover, there are no specific antibodies – they are non-specific for detecting viruses – the body will produce antibodies from plasma cells to all sorts of different antigens (proteins) or ‘foreign agents’ that are circulating in our bloodstream at the time of testing including other microorganisms toxins and ‘wild peptides’ when drugs combine with proteins. The notion that antibodies act by directly ‘neutralising’ viruses has been well disputed by scientists including Albert Sabin, the developer of the oral polio vaccine, in the 1930s.
The problem is that antibodies have a proclivity to react with protein(s) that are not the protein(s) that induced the antibody in the first place. Proteins are very powerful antigens, but even if alleged coronavirus antibodies did exist, a test reaction does not prove that the antibodies are the definite partners of the coronavirus proteins.
Why is that? Because a given antigen (say a coronavirus protein) can react with antibodies directed against other antigens (cross-reactions) already in the body. This implies that there is no proof that any of the antibodies that react in the antibody tests are the result of an infection solely due to an alleged coronavirus.
The only way to determine that is to compare the antibody test with an independent means of verifying the presence or absence of the alleged coronavirus itself, AND such independent means can only be the coronavirus itself. Hence proving the existence of the coronavirus FIRST is absolutely necessary.
This implies that it is not possible to detect an allegedly specific coronavirus virus infection whether past or present from any serology/antibody test.
They had the same problem with HIV – here’s the paper:-
HIV ANTIBODIES: FURTHER QUESTIONS AND A PLEA FOR CLARIFICATION
Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos (1), Valendar F.Turner (2), John M Papadimitriou (3), Gordon Stewart (4), and David Causer (1) Current Medical Research and Opinion Vol. 13: 627-634, 1997
Waiting time for results of NHS staff testing is currently taking 7 days.
My family household includes two Paramedics. The Paramedics were tested at the weekend because they both had a slight temperature and were self isolating. However, because of staff shortages both were instructed to return to work today 3 days before results their results are known.
Thanks for your reply.
What you have said comes as no surprise, I think they know very well that these ‘tests’ are unreliable anyway, even if a positive result is obtained, and one might add, if such’ tests’ have any meaning at all. Different patients will produce different levels of antibodies anyway for a host of other different reasons i.e. reasons other than an alleged pathogenic virus. If one wants to blame a virus then serology/antibody tests are not the way to go about it as I have stated.
You need to isolate the virus from a diseased patient first before anything else in the lab and then prove that it is infectious using the proper controls but that is never ever done because they know full well that viruses don’t cause disease. Rather, viruses that our cells produce e.g. retroviruses can be ‘associated’ or ‘correlated’ with a particular infection but that is not the same as saying they are a cause of it.
Virus theory itself is untenable for a number of reasons. One of them is that the theory is based on the idea that a single type of virus is the single cause of a particular infectious disease or illness. However, the theory can only work by DELIBERATELY EXCLUDING all other potential causes and conditions at work both inside and outside of the cells (and the body) from consideration which is not the way things work in the natural world or in a microbiology or a virology that claims to be in any way ‘scientific’.
Alleged ‘pathogenic viruses’ also appear to have no determinate conditions of existence other than themselves – they are claimed to have ‘evolved’ as determinate unities of being consisting of a bunch of lifeless metabolically inert chemicals. Their origin is unknown. However, Professor Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe believe they came from outer space! (That’s no joke see the pdf file).
Is this correct? No specific antibodies? This goes against much of what i have read about antibodies and specificity. It is explained in many medical papers that the body’ immune system creates highly Specific antibodies for specific viruses.
Chris, that’s a valid question.
Since everybody produces different levels of antibodies to any antigenic substance that happens to enter the body – the antibody (protein) production in that sense is ‘non-specific’. That is why antibody testing does not signify anything specific except that an immune response is in progress. The more exposures a person has had to foreign antigens, proteins and infectious agents, the more various antibodies he or she will have in their system, and the more likely it is that there will be several cross-reacting antibodies, enough to make the antibody test ‘positive’ to coronavirus for example.
However, insofar as Covid-19 is concerned, the only way to prove the specificity of an antibody test or any antibody- antigen reaction, one must first isolate and purify the coronavirus (antigen) itself to use as a gold standard for the reaction.
To pretend otherwise, how can we know that the antibodies produced are specific to the virus, if the virus (antigen) in question has never been isolated and purified? Moreover, as far as I am aware no antibodies have ever been observed ever attacking any alleged pathogenic virus such as a coronavirus circulating in the bloodstream. I doubt that will ever happen because neither the alleged coronavirus nor the antibodies that they believe to be specific to it have been conclusively proven to exist. However, there is a lot more to it than that if you are interested have a look at my other posts on the other Off Guardian threads.
i don’t get notifications for new articles, or comments 🙁
If you actually read the small print on the ONS website, it says “These figures are based on the date the death was registered, not when it occurred; there is usually a delay of at least five days between occurrence and registration (more information is available in our impact of registration delays release)”
So they are last weeks figures.
And that delay between death and the registration of death has been consistent for over a hundred years. Thus the comparisons between corresponding periods are entirely reliable.
Both this and the Public Health England data note the delay in records arriving in their system, in the Public Health England website it specifies that this is due to the NHS computer systems and result in the most recent figures being potentially lower than they should be as of 2018. So not sure they’ve actually got the data for last week yet, let alone this week.
Two days later and no new stats published. I wonder why.
Because the data has to go through the NHS computer system, which they don’t know how to use efficiently at the best of times.
You’ll find out soon enough Injected!! Perhaps the statisticians have all come down with the alleged ‘virus’ and COVID-19!
A live interview with Dr Patrick Quanten explains viruses, antibodies, vaccines and the scam in simple terms for those who are interested.
This is a must watch don’t miss it. Make up your own mind!
A notable over extension around 20 minutes :
Humans as food for mosquitoes.
Yep, and we are steak on the table for the 1% at the top of the global hierarchy!
Thank you for this article. It inspired me…
The answer to why there were no lockdowns in the previous 3 years, but there are lockdowns now is possibly because the financial bubble wasn’t bursting then, but it is now.
Hi Gene G,
The massive financial bubble has been slowly deflating for some time now and is rapidly running out of air that’s why they need a mythical pathogenic virus to blame for it and also for COVID-19 symptoms and to buy a bit more time to figure out the next move to digital cash. See Dr Quanten’s video I have recently posted on this thread – it makes a lot more sense and the sooner people come to their senses the better.
I hate to say this ,but maybe Pompeo’s statement was the truth when he said “This a live experiment “.
I say this because like many on this forum ,I believe that the facts just don’t add up from a rational ,
logical ,standpoint.Much for us that are critical thinkers does not make sense .It is all driven by fear and obfuscation of the statistics .
How easy it is to deceive .
How do you explain that the wealthy and the royals got it to?
Any dead yet?
How do you know they got it? Did you personally test them? Even if they got it, they recovered fast.
An apt comment. However, I must point out that there are no specific tests for this coronavirus NONE except the isolation of the whole viral genome itself which has never been done to date to prove infection. If that’s the case then how can they claim that this alleged virus is the CAUSE of COVID-19. The simple answer is they CANNOT -period! You have to look for a gamut of OTHER causes which they are not doing because its easier to convince people its all down to a deadly disease causing virus when its NOT !!
Pompeo’s claim of this being a live exercise does not preclude the existence of a virus.
Pompeo’s claim is ambiguous IMO anyway.
And Trump replied ,You could have told me .
Just maybe Pompeo was laughing in our face ,i.e. how easy it is to fool the public with the media and statistics.
Just saying.For the most part it is affecting the people already compromised and the numbers don’t put any other years to shame.
Where that crowd are concerned, I wouldn’t rule anything out. I don’t think they’re capable of not playing asymmetric warfare. Their natural behaviour is to permanently lie and confiscate everything.
Cofiscate = Obfuscate. Bloody autocorrect.
Although they do confiscate, too.
Its one thing to prove the physical existence of a particular virus, its another to try and prove that it and it alone is indeed infectious and is the sole cause of a particular disease. Don’t fall for them trying to blame viruses that are not pathogenic and treating them as if they were!. See Dr Quanten’s live interview on UK Column.
I’m not. I’m only pointing out that a psyop does not mean there isn’t a virus. I think there is a lot if nonlinear warfare going on that is blending things that are with things that aren’t.
We’ve seen the testing kits are unreliable, we’ve seen a lack of desire for random sampling. It’s classic obfuscation.
I agree psyop does not mean that there is not a virus. There are numerous viruses in our bodies mostly retroviruses inside our cells but none have been proven scientifically to be the single cause of a disease they are HARMLESS. Don’t be befuddled by all the stuff you read in standard microbiology textbooks and the so-called peer-reviewed papers that are currently published about pathogenic viruses they lead you down the garden path.
You need the original papers and you will never set eyes on them that conclusively demonstrate that any virus is ‘pathogenic’ despite what they claim. We are indeed in a ‘silent war’ and this ‘coronavirus’ and ‘Covid-19’- in what other way you choose to define it (and that’s the big problem) is just another ‘silent weapon’ being used against the global population. It sounds like you know all the rest or at least I hope you do.
Its an excellent way of demonstrating to the serfs that the coronavirus really is the cause of COVID-19 when its NOT – there is not one shred of scientific evidence that it is, and there is no ‘test’ available that can conclusively prove it.
Don’t believe me, try requesting the original scientific paper that demonstrated the physical existence of a pathogenic coronavirus from the authorities on viruses by the correct methods of isolation and the proof that it is infectious -but not by serology tests and PCR. You will never ever receive a copy of the original paper because a ‘pathogenic’ coronavirus DOES NOT EXIST and therefore cannot be the cause of COVID-19.
It is high time this coronavirus and COVID-19 scam is put to rest but that’s not going to happen because of the real mess the global economy and financial system is in. Good luck in your Freedom of Information Act request you’ll certainly need it if you decide to go ahead with it!
The media obviously live on sensationalism, they move from one hype to another, they live on emotionalism, they are the dictatorship of the day, they are totally and utterly worthless for any orientation into reality, they provide ideologically agendized pseudo realities, they create mass hysteria and collective psychosis. They are slavishly sleep walking subject to greater controllers who inject their agenda into this mass omnipresent twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week contamination system.
Just heard on the BBC Radio news bulletin that “a thirteen year old boy and a 19 year old Italian chef in London” have died, believed to be the result of coronavirus. “Both teenagers were in good health according to their families”. Someone needs to remind the BBC that even teenagers “in good health” can die. Just ask Terry Yorath for one. When I was fifteen a class-mate “in good health” suffered a near fatal brain haemorrhage.
I wonder, should it be established that these poor boys died of something other than coronavirus, if the BBC will make it headline news to reveal this. I somehow doubt it.
Highly unlikely because that would be “intrusion into the family’s private grief”.
Unlike the first report, when they were Coronavirus newsfodder and fair game.
I see reports that the 19 year old collapsed clutching his chest and his lips turned purple. He was found to have ‘Covid 19’ in his system post mortem. Rather demonstrates the point we’ve all been making .
Judy you hit the nail on the head:
We are being brainwashed from morning to night with coronavirus this, coronavirus that, and with all the other warnings about this non-existent PATHOGENIC virus. No wonder most people can’t think outside the box – they see deadly virus lurking everywhere ready and waiting to pounce and give them COVID-19. Virus Paranoia has already set in along with stress, anxiety and apprehension. We need concrete scientific proof that this alleged virus really does exist but it has NEVER been forthcoming from the authorities and what has been published concerning this alleged virus in the scientific papers that I have read is complete and utter obfuscation.
This leads to the crucial question that you have posed in relation to the above quote namely, causes at work OTHER THAN coronavirus. I can answer that question with a firm YES there are because there is no conclusive scientific proof – NONE that this alleged virus is infectious no matter how many times they claim it mutates!
The pathogenicity of coronavirus cannot be demonstrated as there are no specific tests to prove it because they haven’t isolated any pure virus particles in the first place to use the genome as a gold standard of comparison for any nucleic acid sequences found in samples from patients and then prove they’re infectious using proper experimental controls -QED.
Will what I have said make any difference to what people believe – probably not, but I’ll carry on saying it anyway with the hope that someday the truth will eventually come out.
Thanks, Tony. I believe that OffG are currently researching the fundamental question of what the current tests are looking for, how accurate they are and the i.d. of Covid-19 as a distinct strain of coronavirus. So we will hopefully be seeing much more on this in the next few days.
I’ve just posted something on this thread that addresses that issue – there are NO such tests available that can do that without proof that they have FIRST isolated the virus itself and then and only then come up with the proof that it is infectious using the proper methods and controls – since no serology (antibody tests) or PCR assays can do that without the actual virus as the gold standard of comparison.
I have now lost count of how many times I have repeated the facts that are required to be established and I am beginning to lose faith in humanity for being taken in by the official version of coronavirus and COVID-19.
They isolated the virus on 13/4.
Provide all the scientific details. If its the same paper I saw they did no such thing the electron micrographs showed other particles and not pure virus. Then they used PCR.
like measles epidemics, you never get the ”nobody died,all well” bit at the end.
More from Peter Hitchens – interview on Sky News podcast. One point which I think he missed an opportunity to make was the very hasty extreme reduction in the IC modelling forecast of maximum mortalities. Laura Bundock refers to 250k as the figure as if it still stands. Peter could well have updated that, and mentioned the High Consequence Infectious Disease listing issue. But I appreciate he had limited time to make as many points as he could. The others discussing it showed an incredible and dispassionate naivety about the economic consequences of the ‘lockdown’.
DDT NEWS !
Dystomous Draconian Times.
Time to sharpen Axes.
MOMO data is 3 weeks behind, and the hockey stick uptrend of cases/deaths in Italy started only around the start of March. It’s too early and misleading to write this article. Wait another 2-3 weeks and we’ll see where we are.
So a person who has advanced cancer and is in hospice and gets COVIN-19 is assumed to die from the virus? Or a person with congestive heart failure who has a heart attack and has the virus is recorded as dying from the virus? I am sure the deep state and their globalist masters have manipulated the records in a way to cause the most panic. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/report-italian-adviser-suggests-that-coronavirus-death-rates-in-italy-may-be-exaggerated/
Josh, please read this carefully
Mortality monitoring in Europe
Welcome to the EuroMOMO website. We publish weekly bulletins of the all-cause mortality levels in up to 24 European countries or regions of countries. The weekly bulletin is published every Thursday around noon.
Don’t spread lies, this is a WEEKLY bulletin.
Brilliant. Thanks for doing this important work. Keep sounding the alarm!
There are numerous reasons for “augmenting” the statistical body count attributed to this “pandemic”. Jon Rappoport has been doing a great job of summarizing the falsity of the WHO data since day one.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed—and hence clamorous to be led to safety—by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
– H.L. Mencken –
(Henry Louis Mencken)
(September 12, 1880 – January 29, 1956)
See this for more details: A Swiss Doctor on Covid-19 – Swiss Propaganda Research
The world’s economies have been tanked for at least the last seven years, whilst arbitrage brokers swap one worthless Ponzi token for another. The capitalist Ponzi game is nearing it’s last move, and the covid pan-panic serves to distract an already distracted proletariat. The ploy is working well…
On the Groaniad front page today:
“Orbán uses virus to seize extra powers in Hungary”.
Gosh! Thank goodness that could never happen here!
I bet they thought that was insightful.
Ha ha ha ha. These numpties have an ethereal lack of self-awareness.
Thanks for the big laugh, ME.
FYI, the Bulgarian NATO Puppet PM Borisov announced yesterday a 5000 Leva fine for failure to wear face masks in public… about 2,500 euros, being more than the average state Annual pension!
On the 20th April 2016, he also passed a law making it illegal to conceal your face in public.
See the problem? We Slavs do, very clearly, lol
Well, in the film Casablanca Major Strasser tells Victor and Ilsa that it is dangerous for them to stay in Casablanca. It is also dangerous to leave Casablanca.
It can’t happen here. So they say…
The Office for National Statistics has just published the number of registered deaths in England and Wales for the week ending the 20th of March. The number is 10, 645. This is slightly higher than the five yearly average for the corresponding week, which is 10, 573. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales
It is interesting to note that special mention is made by the Office of the coronavirus. Counting all deaths where the virus is mentioned (which is very different to saying that the virus caused the death), only amounts to 103 deaths, less than 1.0%.
Thank you for posting.
103 cases where the virus is mentioned as a contributory cause of death? For my benefit, where do you get 103?
Indy and Grauniad have England 367, Scotland 13, Wales 7, 6 N.I. but that was deaths who had tested positive. So I guess you can test positive but it still might not be mentioned on the certificate as a contributor to death.
I read somewhere today that UK legislation has changed to order that if Covid is mentioned on the certificate then it must automatically be a cause of death. Did anyone else hear that?
Download data here
Not heard the change in legislation. Doesn’t surprise me though… add fuel to the NWO theories doesn’t it
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi If this is true you’ll find it here. A statutory insturment is when they change a piece of legislation without bringing in new legislation .
“These figures are based on the date the death was registered, not when it occurred; there is usually a delay of at least five days between occurrence and registration (more information is available in our impact of registration delays release)”
Lessons from Italy’s Response to Coronavirus : https://hbr.org/2020/03/lessons-from-italys-response-to-coronavirus
My favorite one: “The virus is faster than our bureaucracy.”
That is a sound bite presumably aimed at people with limited discrimination, statistically and epidemiological meaningless. I question why you would bother repeating it.
Because it’s funny. 🙂
Even snails are faster.., our modern media and establishments, consisting of congregations and priesthood classes are incompetent of making good jokes, they are the joke themselves.
This Virus Guy doesn’t do funny. Not bad at pompous bombast though.
A new article in The Spectator from pathologist Dr John Lee:
How to understand – and report – figures for ‘Covid deaths’
There’s a link in the article to his previous piece. Both are excellent.
A very clear explanation of the mortality ration problem. Extract:
So we are on the current absurd trajectory the John Hopkins mortality rate is rising ever upwards (towards 50 % ? 60 %? We are all going to ‘die of COVID19 ?).
The good news is we’ve cured cancer and heart disease
Ha ha, very good.
cc CJ Hopkins
The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated areas where public/private partnerships will be necessary during the response to a severe pandemic in order to diminish large-scale economic and societal consequences.
Fresh from Wikipedia.
John’s Hopkins is a Rockefeller run establishment, they were compromised to be America’s model for medicine by the Flexner report. They sued natural drs until their chemical warfare meds were the only legal option left in America. And walla we have cancer galore
Still got some way to go to meet Dr N Ferguson’s (he of famed 200,000 will die from BSE oh sorry it was only 200) predictions of 250,00 or even worse (better) 500,000
I am starting to think that epidemiology is quack science. I am sure that there must have been attempts to standardise the recording of death – something that has been such a fundamental part of medicine for centuries. How can you standardise responses to crises like this without a coherent standardised data set telling you what the situation is? You can’t, it’s utterly absurd.
The politicisation of science (pseudoscience) goes back to the Soviet era and was probably most egregious in the NIST reports, at least in my lifetime. (Before all this of course).
In 1954, Darrell Huff wrote a book called “How to Lie With Statistics”. It was meant to be cautionary. I think some disciplines took it as an instruction manual.
Disciples or disciplinArians? English is not my mother tongue 🙂
Discipline = field of study or endeavour.
a) Because ~50% of covid19 infected have no fever and continued their lives in the West, including working in hospitals, where they infect others. In the East they handled targeted lockdown much stricter and faster. More top down, authoritarian, more serious with possible pandemics.
b) Because covid19 frequently triggers a fast deadly pneumonia in part of the other 50% which can only be overcome with enough mechanical ventilators for otherwise healthy people in a medical facility. The growing numbers due to a) in Italy, Spain, Holland etc. overwhelmed the capacity: Korea, Singapore and China never got to that point.
Thanks Antonym, this place needs sensible and considered comments.
You even applaud yourself via a socky.
2 down votes from same person 😉
I would agree with you, but this website is full of links to reliable published data that provides a basis for factual assessment, why do you prefer to endorse hysterical nonsense?
The whole debacle has been highly exaggerated, and fear has altered the perception of all, and it is agreed what you are saying. what do you say, however, to the nurses I know saying they really are overflowed to capacity, exhausted, and witnessing things they have never seen? Just overblown because of fearing not having equipment they probably don’t need? Or is it actually extra contagious, and this strain makes it harder to breathe..? The nurses I know are not simulators.
This is the lies and outright exapperations that are being constantly peddled by the state.
I am adding to your comment just to add that everything that you have written has been thoroughily debunked by this site. Here, this opinion has a very loud voice pushed by a tiny minority of our frequentors.
Are you shills, are you paid?
We tire of constantly debunking this abject lies that is being disseminated by repeaters of the nonsense of the state.
Typical Ad hominem response: wish there was a vaccine for that, admins.
And you respond with a threat and an insult being so sweet and innocent.
Okay, I shouldn’t have inferred what I inferred….
There was no need, it was a somewhat…redundant a comment that encourages victimhood.
I will watch my mouth in the future admin.
Not an ad hom. He asked you a couple of questions.
Could a) and b) have also been true in previous flu like outbreaks? The growing numbers don’t seem to be present on the reconning highlighted above.
You have just described the normal behavior of every moderately infective pathogen in existence. That is how flu viruses behave, that is how cold viruses (also corona viruses) behave. That is how noroviruses behave. Why have you been persuaded to be afraid of the completely mundane and ordinary?
I see you are using the groundless fear you created in your previous paragraph to promote questionable political measures. Very telling.
Let me stop you there. NCoV19 does not “frequently” trigger a “fast deadly pneumonia”. This is a popular claim not borne out in any of the epidemiology available to us so far.
Once more let’s look at the data.
>80% of infected are asymptomatic, remain well or manifest minor cold like or flulike symptoms.
<15% develop more severe symptoms of high fever, severe cough but can recover at home with fluids and rest.
<5% develop more serious lung complications.
Of these a minority will require ICU care involving positive pressure mask ventilation. An even smaller number will require invasive ventilation.
These numbers are virtually identical to comparable data on most common flu strains. They are not alarming, they do not pose a threat to public health over and above the usual one of underfunded and chronically overburdened healthcare systems.
This sentence seems designed merely to confuse people into thinking 50% of covid19 cases need mechanical ventilation! That is of course nonsense. Only a small percentage even of those hospitalised will require mechanical ventilation, which is a last resort due to the destructive effect it has on lung tissue.
I have no idea why you think you would need mechanical ventilators for “otherwise healthy people”. Healthy people don’t need mechanical ventilators, and >99% of those sick with covid19 don’t need them either. Your comprehension seems addled by semi-digested media fear.
Again you have been persuaded to believe a perfectly ordinary, and in fact encouraging, statistic – the very high numbers of people remaining well after being infected – is something unusual and concerning, if not apocalyptic. This is a failure of basic common sense in the face of panic.
Can I thank you for your regular, rational and scientific dissection of the hysterical narrative we are being constantly bombarded with. Shame you can’t have your own slot on TV to put these points across! I think you would be very persuasive.
I just wanted to ask you for your current thoughts on the testing protocol for diagnosing Covid-19. There seem to be two diverse positions being adopted by medical ‘experts’ (and my own neighbour who is a hospital nurse). One group seem to endorse the view (or at least don’t refute it) that the test definitively identifies Covid-19; the other group has been critical of reliance on the test being used to identify Covid-19 on the grounds that it cannot distinguish between Covid-19 and other coronaviruses and cannot identify the level of infection present in an individual. The reliability of the test is a fundamental issue in determining cause of death, infection in the population, and indeed the level of risk the virus might pose.
I would also be grateful to know whether you think it is likely that the virus being referred to as Covid-19 does exist as a distinct virus in its own right, irrespective of whether the common test being used to identify it in people is flawed. Or is its existence actually conflated with other coronaviruses?
I think you may have covered these points in previous posts so apologies for asking you to repeat your knowledge and opinion. But I am finding these questions are becoming more and more significant to me the more I try to keep abreast of developments.
Please keep up the posts…they are invaluable.
Your comprehension seems addled by semi-digested media fear.
“It is difficult to get someone to understand something, when their salary depends upon their not understanding it.” — Upton Sinclair
Thank you for the factual and sensible post, refreshing to see this in a world of mad sound bites and hysteria.
The evidence is emerging that it can be overcome by chloroquine in combination with other already licensed drugs.
I recommend Vodka:
it kills all known germs dead, better than ‘Domestos’,
in my experience 🙂
10% infection rate and a low mortality rate
Luke Rudkowski interviewed James Corbett on his channel.
What You’re Not Hearing About The Pandemic — What’s The Agenda?
Luke Rudkowski was pushing the official narrative hard. Another so called alt-media outlet that turns out to be nothing more than controlled opposition. That or he is too stupid to do proper investigation. (And if he’s too stupid then why listen to anything he has to say?)
And for some reason he seemed obsessed with masks: “wear masks, wear masks”, repeating this over and over. Yeah right, force everybody to adopt idiotic behavior, just like the mindless clapping and banging on pots like lunatics… (Once you adopt such behavior you will be less likely to question the official narrative, people don’t want to admit to themselves that they were hoodwinked into behaving like a loon.)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/flu-season-surgical-mask-present-spread-a9170916.html “The logic of wearing a surgical mask must surely be: if it works for surgeons, it must work for me. The problem is, the mask isn’t intended to protect the surgeon. It’s intended to stop droplets from the surgeon’s mouth or nose getting into the patient’s wound and causing sepsis.”
“Basically, there is no strong evidence to support people wearing surgical masks in public. Or as the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention put it: “No recommendation can be made at this time for mask use in the community by asymptomatic persons, including those at high risk for complications, to prevent exposure to influenza viruses.”
Even if there are some indications that wearing a mask might help a little bit to protect us from influenza-like viruses… this would mean we should wear these masks all the time, every day of every year. And we should wear them all day long. (And we should also replace them very regularly.) Do you want to wear a mask every single day for the rest of your life? If the answer is still yes you should go live in a hazmat suit for the rest of your life, to be logically consistent. Human beings have an immune system for a reason.
Btw Corbett just had a great video about the latest psyop they’re running. (The clappening.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dslfuSBY2U
Luke Rudkowski was pushing the official narrative hard. Another so-called alt-media outlet that turns out to be nothing more than controlled opposition. That or he is too stupid to do a proper investigation. (And if he’s too stupid then why listen to anything he has to say?)
I put my money on stupid, that guy is a fully paid-up member of the ‘Truther Industrial Complex’.
It’s these guys’ job to muddy the waters.
“So, the question is, if we didn’t have a lockdown in 2017, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2018, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2019….why do we have a lockdown now?”
Because a novel, unusually highly infectious but otherwise as-yet largely unknown pathogen wasn’t around in 2017-2019?
You, whoever you are, don’t believe that just because airlines (and other, particularly very rapid, long-haul people transporters) do not factor into the price of your international ticket an actuarially estimated contingency cost of what they are instead able to regard as an externality (when incorporating it would, in effect, impose a price-enforced inter-national novel disease quarantine) that such costs do not, at some point, have to paid by someone, do you?
And why would you assume that the long-standing standard practices of public health authorities in such circumstances (don’t contradict me, I personally lost several schooldays summer holiday funtimes because of such public health practices) would be any different in this relatively unknown Coronavirus instance than in Anyotherunknownvirus instance?
Why is the overall mortality the same or below recent averages?
I don’t know all of the factors that need year-on-year adjustment to provide directly comparable figures properly corrected for an additional flu-like disease such as COVID-19 (externally weighted as it could be by airline routes, which on first sight would seem not to fit the Poisson regression they use elsewhere, BICBW) and I’m not particularly motivated to spend time trying to find out. Do you?
If not, their FluMOMO model with test data is downloadable, and I presume that a full explanation of all the technical terms can also be found onsite or easily chased up. Go for it.
From one of MOMO’s accompanying explanatories, “Rationale”:
Mate, this is some serious mind bending stuff that can alter arithmetic operations of addition and subtraction…
Where have seen arithmetic denial before? Ah yes,
when is an actuarially estimated contingency cost which is not actually a cost, still an actuarially estimated contingency cost?
when the Party says it is, that’s when.
So Orwell knew fuck all about mathematics beyond folk-simplistic arithmetic either, yet you, who seems to be also equally devoid of statistics, wish to nail your experential social insights to an equal understanding of those disciplines because he was good–chillingly precise, even–at literary metaphor? Talking of metaphor, do you have any idea what “shooting yourself in the foot” means?
So let me sum up your logic:
That, the deaths from the deadly world wide pandemic are unobservable due to the varience of other factors.
That the Draconian actions of the state presumably to save millions of us, is only observable when statistical noise is removed by filtering???
of course the excess deaths are unobservable. that’s why nobody has observed them.
Only the disciplined mind can see reality.
Quick, phone O’Brien, we have someone speaking the truth…
“So let me sum up your logic:
That, the deaths from the deadly world wide pandemic are unobservable due to the varience of other factors.
That the Draconian actions of the state presumably to save millions of us, is only observable when statistical noise is removed by filtering???
Yes, really and no, not really, in that order. On neither count do we know jack shit. On the first we may be able to assign aggregate probabilities when we have sufficient subsequent data retrospectively to do so; on the second we shoud be able to measure it and, though somewhat later, assign some quantification of meaningfulness to your assessment adjective ‘Draconian’.
Cut the flim-flam. The figures are all-cause, all inclusive and need no “adjustment”. Why would they you darn fool? People are either dead in excess numbers or not. The dangers of the situation are measured by the quantity of that excess. These numbers show that up to March 22, NOTHING was causing unusual or dangerous amounts of mortality in Europe. Not covid19 or anything else.
Why have you been locked up in these circumstances? What data is being used to justify these unprecedented measures? None. They are not employing any real data. They are basing this entirely on the projected figures out of Imperial, and ignoring the real world data. You are as much in danger from this as any of us. Playing ostrich will not save you.
Hi Virus Guy, Offg is interested in gathering data sources for corona virus testing. Anything that we can refer to regarding:
– what specific form of test/s are likely being used in the field and in the laboratory to detect this pathogen
– how accurate these tests are at detecting corona viruses
– whether the tests can isolate a specific corona virus eg. the alleged CV19 virus
I know you’ve expressed your opinions on PCR testing before, and we are after any studies, papers, resources, specialists etc. that we can quote as sources.
Thanks very much,
Thanks, admin2. This info would indeed be invaluable in investigating the true scientific value of the information being fed to us via the media. If you could possibly do a free-standing article on the matter to put any data you collect in one place that would be invaluable.
An additional thought, admin2. It would be helpful also to know whether every country is using the same test/s to get their data.
JudyJ nails it … I & some friends wanna’ know, just like you !
Funny how so many balk at such simple questioning. 🙂
The next question being, (logical), who produced the tests,
& their microbiological reasoning, scientifically speaking …
Thanks for that endorsement. 😀
Yep, as much as we can find out about the test/s would definitely be useful.
By the way, how is Balky doing these days? I hope he’s keeping well.
Fit as a fiddle and he’s lost 10 Kilos, after daily training, to focus minds on the most important Matter for humanity, >>> starting with himself. “A good start…”, he just said, “… rather like, 1,000 Lawyers & Doctors, chained to a concrete block at the bottom of the Atlantic 😉 he just added. (His favourite joke 😉 )
For absolute clarity & certain integrity, I’m sure, if I say I’m using my maiden name here, you can guess my ‘family’ surname today: we both love music, above all: which kind of takes us both back in time, to when we first most fortunately encountered one another & JudyJ … ‘In the land of make believe’, simultaneously in the presence of a very unsavoury objectionable character, who…
shall remain nameless 🙂
We concluded that JudyJ is & always would be, invaluable in these OffG columns of comments, at that time and you have proven our judgement to be wholly correct, for which we herewith communicate our heartfelt “Thanks”, from us both and logically, Balkydj, too … 😉 FYI, Balky was also a moderator of local Radio, in the so called
‘Communist Times’… what a laff’ those times were:
nothing like reported or history records. 🙂 even, back then, some people considered The Stranglers ‘Punks’,
with a saxophone or a trumpet, what the hell >>>
Lol, hope this makes you laugh 🙂
Globally Warmest Greetings,
(& a hug)
Tim & Daniela 🙂
Thanks for this, Tim & Dani
I have a friend in the UK who always refers to me as ‘Judge Judy’ (US TV celebrity judge who you may have heard of) because he says I have an opinion on the rights and wrongs of everything! 😉
Sounds as if everything is going well for you all on a personal level – good to hear. I shall think of you all as my friends in Europe!
“Why have you been locked up in these circumstances? What data is being used to justify these unprecedented measures? None. They are not employing any real data. They are basing this entirely on the projected figures out of Imperial…”
They are basing this entirely on what?
In view of your monikered qualifications, may I metaphorize? I trust my recursion to typography matches your mindset sufficiently to make cytosis possible?
How do we know if it is unusually highly infectious?
2/10. Unintelligible. See me.
This is your answer to the very rational question posed in the article “if we didn’t have a lockdown in 2017, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2018, and we didn’t have a lockdown in 2019….why do we have a lockdown now?”
Does the obvious not strike you? If an unusually highly infectious pathogen has indeed been raging through much of Europe and the rest of the world for > 3 months – and had less than zero impact on excess mortality statistics, then either it’s infectivity has been wildly over-assessed or its infectivity must be more than cancelled by its lack of virulence.
It is simply not possible for a pathogen to be both highly infectious anddeadly and have zero effect on excess mortality.
There is no amount of fraudulent verbal gymnastic that can negate the fact that these stats show the nCoV panic to have been a scam.
Why are you introducing this rambling stuff about airlines? I teach. I am familiar with the idea of submitting a term paper of closely written garbage in hopes your bored prof will sign off without reading. It has never worked on me.
In what parallel universe are you living where the entire shut down of society, the destruction of jobs on a global scale, individuals being entirely stripped of their constitutional rights, detained indefinitely, locked up in their homes, permitted to leave once a day for ‘essential’ reason only, deprived of food in some instances, deprived of fresh air, has formed any part of a public health response to a minor coronavirus, or even a major pathogen.
You must either be in denial, or failing to grasp the horrifying extent of what is being perpetrated in the name of this phoney pandemic.
— consider the alternative possibility that such disingenuous arguments are part of a large-scale state propaganda campaign, in which case the subjective motivations of their immediate proponents are of only incidental interest.
Amen, brother! Some people do love their dictators.
I know you all love this guy, so here’s the latest total bullshit…
Remember, record and save everything these people are telling you.
Why do you give this Campbell dude more exposure and views?
An enlightening recent comment, either here on off-G or on the Saker, pointed out that Italy Spain and Iran are highly “social” societies, ie their family and community networks are far more vital to their daily lives than say the US or UK.
To make sure the populations of these countries take the virus seriously their respective governments needed to inflate the threat.
Hence for example we have Italians dying “with” the disease being classified as dying “of” it.
With/of is an acceptable distinction in cases of something like non aggressive prostate cancer where many long term, even very long term, sufferers do indeed die with it rather than of it, in the case of a fast-acting, acute viral infection where co-morbidities seem to be a very significant factor, it is little more than a “fuck you Jack, I’m all right” that is disgustingly close to fundamentalist moralizing in those very many cases where the co-morbidities could range from long-term HIV survival to chronic conditions arising from third world (a.k.a. ‘developing’, which usually means utterly pillaged, ‘economy’) dietary and many other factors.
You are wrong…the deaths ARE being overstated.
The Italian Health authorities have already published a statement to the effect that around 90% of their cases ia attributed wrongly to cv19.
Is just, yet another appeal to emotion of the variety,
“The Nurse looked sad, ‘so I must be correct'”.
I’ll NEVER grow tired of quoting that, thanks for that one admin.
This is a reply to a post in which I claimed nothing at all about death rates?
Are you all there?
Are you aware that, with regard to COVID-19 mortality, several very common drugs prescribed for cardiac problems are emerging as relevant factors both for and against survival simultaneously?
Is your idea of surfing staying behind the wave?
Do you really give a fuck for anyone who is not listed in your address book or perched on your family tree?
co-morbidities seem to be a very significant factor
chronic conditions arising from third world dietary
so if somebody is dying of starvation, and they happen to contract some virus, which in a healthy person would have been a minor and temporary annoyance, but in their chronically weakened state it pushes them over the edge, then you’re willing to credit the virus as the cause of death.
well, that shows which team you’re playing for.
Are later day Judas’s paid their 30 pieces of silver contactless ya think?
“pushes them over the edge […] well, that shows which team you’re playing for. [Emphasis added]”
No, that shows you don’t have fucking clue about how precarious and privileged your life is. Or why so many of the comparatively underprivileged feel that exterminating it as a good way to level the odds is justified in heaven. Or, indeed, that you have any idea at all of which ‘team I’m playing for’. Or even where the clubhouse might be.
We should feel pity for people who have HIV or chronic conditions arising from third world (a.k.a. ‘developing’, which usually means utterly pillaged, ‘economy’) dietary and many other factors and so if they die with coronavirus inside them we should say they died from coronavirus. Or not.
Sort of. We should attribute SARS-CoV-2 as a factor in their death until such time as we have sufficient medical and statistical information to assign aggregate probabilities retrospectively–a long way off yet–then mourn for them all in their anxiety and their sacrifice to our common ignorance and mortality. Those who return whole from a war or who were never called on to go have no moral superiority over those who never came back or who came back damaged in body or spirit.
Greeks are also pretty social and the death toll is relatively low, 46 at the time of writing. There has been a lockdown in force for over a week, supposed to extend to April 6.
Affected by austerity, I doubt whether the Greek health system could cope with a serious uptick but so far the worst seems to have been avoided.
My impression is the Balkans have generally had comparatively low death rates.
I’m sure many people here are familiar with Jon Rappoport.
For anyone interested, Rappoport gave a really good interview on tonight’s Richie Allen show…
The slog has just published its article on Macron’s connections to big pharma.
I checked out the excellent EuroMomo site a couple of days ago and it was very illuminating reading.
So, yes, WHY weren’t we all locked down in 2018 or 2017? Why now? Would it be anything to do with the implosion of the financial ponzi scheme that has been in place the last few decades and the imposition of global digital money?
So much info on where all this is heading, and much of it is really grim. I’d rather know the truth than bury my head in the sand like so many are.
Have just watched the latest Corbett Report (The Great Depression). In fact, have tried to cram in as much information into my brain the last few days, feel like I’m at University.
Sorry Gezzah, but it’s time for class again…😏
Your assignment is to check out Jon Rappoport’s 2 pieces from today, 3/30…
The first deals with the beyond-faulty cov-19 test kits…
The second and most recent post is a longer read, but well worth it, re: engineered viruses…
Up ‘n at ’em, Gezzah…! 😄
[Link fixed. A2]
Dude – I’m having lunch! Then a cigarette and coffee! Tho from tomorrow it’ll be roll your own tobacco – can’t afford cigs anymore (hey, we all have our bad habits, and this one helps me keep sane!)
Then I’ll have a look at Jon Rappoport’s latest… Thanks for the link btw Steve. As I’m stuck at home as my work has been suspended, have all day to investigate this. Mentioned I watched the Corbett Report few hours ago – excellent again.
Are you in a large city or more rural area of the US? Am here in Melbourne, Australia, city of 5 million or so, and they say, in a severe social crisis, large cities are the worst place you can be in.
Appreciate your other comments also, and a belated welcome from me to one of the most sane, rational websites in Cyberspace at the moment.
Hey man, if you got ’em, smoke ’em…
I agree James is great…! And I’m living in the US, just outside Chicago currently (yeah, a really big city), tho I do move around…
I’m truly sorry you’re out of work right now, my friend, as many are… Hang in there, bro…!
Steve. We posted at the same time.
Rappoport gave a really good interview on the Richie Allen show this evening, which I’ve linked to a few posts above.
Thanks, bro… I can’t wait to see it…!
Hi Rob… I think I tried replying to you early today (or last night?) but it wouldn’t post.
Hope your tobacconist is still open!?
It’ll be rollies for me from tomorrow. Here in Melbourne, seems only food shops and cafes that were asking for card payments – still paid with cash at my local supermarket yesterday…
This whole thing is becoming one giant clusterfuck… with very serious, and obviously, deadly consequences for the most vulnerable and poorest everywhere. As if the 0.1% care.
I checked out Jon Rappoport’s latest 2 excellent articles today, plus the latest Corbett Report and a few other sites.
Your assignment is to check out Jon Rappoport’s 2 pieces from today, 3/30…
The first deals with the beyond-faulty cov-19 test kits…
The second and most recent post is a longer read, but well worth it, re: engineered viruses…
this is also important:
Done! (this afternoon) those Rappoport articles need to be got out to way more people.
I’ve told everyone I know, tho whether they read them is another matter.
Here in France the few shops that remain open are asking people to pay by bank card.
I refuse, and they still all will take my filthy bank notes.
A fistful of Euros.
(I don’t have the energy to do a Clint Eastward skit at the moment)
this might explain https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/30/washington-uses-the-pandemic-to-create-a-2-trillion-slush-fund-for-its-cronies
Ah, Counterpunch’s almost there. Almost. Just needs one more push. They’re still shy about calling this made-up horror show a smokescreen for the greatest daylight heist ever and the chief component of a totalitarian nightmare. Still, they’re flirting dangerously with conspiracy thinking. Louis Proyect must be apoplectic.
Louis Proyect must be apoplectic.
— he doesn’t have time to be apoplectic; he’s too busy shilling hard for the Official Story, as usual.
Thank you for reading it so I don’t have to, milosevic! That extract is painful enough. Does he have a go at “the capitalist class”? What a fraud. He is the Eliot Higgins of Counterpunch.
TWO trillion? Try at least seven, what with Mnuchin’s little slush-fund.
I’ll add, for information purposes, that I have two good friends who are Jehovah Witnesses (and I should also add that I’m not the least bit religious). We do language lessons together, one week at my home, the next week at their home, etc.
The Kingdom Hall, which is just up the road from us, has been deserted for the last month. I got an e-mail from my friends this weekend saying that the JWs are now all preparing for the end of the world. The prophecy is about to come true.
I repeat, I’ve got no problem with people’s religious beliefs, and have a wide circle of friends of all beliefs. This one made me laugh, though…
Only God the Father knows.
Ah not again.
If only it were that easy, Rob…
Haha makes me think though. The governments don’t control the sheeple with reasoned debate. This guy’s approach is more likely to wake them up because most people renounce reason on principle.
It is described as a Pandemic but it appears (so far ) to be a specific Western pandemic.
Has anyone got an answer to question as to why the Italian cluster of Deaths is so severe – dito Spain?
I see the average death numbers overshot year on year which suggests that whichever virus gets to work then the infection and death scenery moves year by year virus by virus.
But for me the question isn’t necessarily Why these Countries but why these regions/areas in these countries.
Obviously densely packed areas are more prone to infection – it is a probabilty fact but within these maps there are no further shadings for cities and biggish Towns and smaller Towns.
Wuhan was part of China – not the whole of China.
That would give a more overall view for a given Country rather than just averages.
The question is why such a fiercer cluster of deaths in place A rather than place B?
Relatively speaking of course.
It’s a puzzle not just for this virus but all past viri.
Spain, France and Italy (which form a huge part of Europe) are now centres of resistance to the neoliberal order.
You mushrooms in the UK and USA will never be told this.
Mind you, I have to say that auto workers in the USA recently went on strike (largely unreported, because celebrity facile crap is obviously more important), following on from auto workers in Spain, France and Italy who have also gone on strike in large numbers.
Does that mean this ‘mushroom’ will be welcome into the Resistance…? 🍄
I wish there was a secret signal that we could use to indicate our ‘brotherhood’ as non-believers! Some of us did come up with the suggestion of yellow shorts (don’t ask 😀 ) but that hasn’t really taken off for various reasons. Something a bit more subtle would be good. Any suggestions out there? Not sure how successful it would be but it’s fun to think about it!
I appreciate your suggestion, Judy… We all need to see the lighter side of things from time to time…
In ’69 and the early 70’s, all of us VN war protesters had a “uniform’… Long hair, male beards, puccah beads, tie-dyed T-shirts, torn jeans, sandals, flowers in our hair, etc. They called us hippies, and we had a ‘secret signal’… ✌
Thanks for jogging my memory, Judy, but there’s no way I’m wearing yellow shorts…! 😄
Beware: Winston Smith was convinced that O’Brien, like himself, hated The Party.
Yellow Balaclavas would work better, JudyJ, with a built in respiratory filter 🙂
& ear muffs.
We luv your comments on the Balkans…
Greetings from Tim.
Naughty! Naughty! Don’t forget about us ‘mushrooms’ in most Western-democracies … viz. New Zealand, Canada, Australia, etc.
As far as clusters of respiratory diseases, it’s usually an air pollution issue.
Densely urbanised or industrialised areas combine with geography and weather to produce fairly predictable illness/death spikes.
That’s the case in both Wuhan and Lombardy. Every year they get winter smog and people die. Particularly with viral pneumonia.
The smogs (known as pea-soupers) in the 1950’s caused by Battersea power station in London killed 000’s i just a few days. The UK gov’t called it ‘flu.
Actually Ken, there have been several posts and links in here over the last few weeks explaining Wuhan and Lombardy as ‘hotspots’…
Wuhan, China is reported to have significant air pollution year round, while the Lombardy region in Italy is referred to, in some circles, as ‘Little China’ due to its similar poor year round air pollution… In addition, it has been reported that many of Lombardy’s inhabitants are elderly…
I’ve no idea what’s up in Spain…
See SO2 pollution here:
The context in which the high death rates are noted in Milan and Lombardia is important: this part of Italy is notorious for high air pollution levels due to the concentration of industry in this area and other areas along the Po River valley in northern Italy.
Wuhan and Tehran also suffer from high air pollution levels. In Milan and Tehran, temperature inversions (where cold air sinks beneath warm air and traps aerosol pollutant particles) are apparently common. These cities are built in river or mountain valleys which aggravate the weather phenomenon.
Most people dying from COVID-19 are aged 60+ years and their lungs may have suffered damage from breathing polluted air over the decades.
There have been other environmental issues and problems caused by industry in northern Italy over the years that might predispose people to be vulnerable to COVID-19 infection because their immune systems may be weak from past chronic illnesses and conditions stemming from contact with toxic chemicals. In 1976, the town of Seveso, not far from Milan, was affected by a dioxin gas cloud caused by a leakage in a tank at a factory in the town. People living in the town at the time may be at increased risk for some cancers. Cancer certainly saps a person’s immune system and even a latent cancer could have an effect.
Here is the answer from Holland’s 2 early hotspots: many hospital nurses got infected but didn’t know it (no fever), plus voluntary testing only with shaky testkits. They kept on working with their weakened patients. Also a big yearly social event was allowed to happen (Carnival); in Italy it was a football match against a Spanish team. Guess what happened next…
Read their own experiences (in English): https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.23.20041913v1.full.pdf
To answer your question, there are several factors to consider.
One is air pollution – extremely bad in northern Italy, Madrid (Spain), Barcelona (Spain), and southeast England. There’s also a corridor of bad air pollution in the Benelux region, including eastern France. Nobody has ever asked why eastern France is so hard hit but Paris, an international city, is doing much better.
Secondly, in Italy, roughly 99% of seniors live at home. Old age/nursing homes effectively do not exist. In Spain, the number isn’t that high (I think it’s around 78%), but it’s far higher than in places like Germany (just 13%).
I have no idea about where seniors live in Wuhan, but Hubei province is the most (air) polluted region of China.
Seeing as the prevalence of high air pollution, Italian age demographics and the established living patterns are factors that would be long established, would we expect to see higher incidence of flu-like respiratory infection deaths in Northern Italy in, say a bad flu year?
Not only would we expect to see a higher rate of flu deaths in northern Italy, but they have been recorded several times during previous winters. In addition, the hospitals and emergency rooms of N. Italy have been on the verge of collapse in recent times precisely due to the high number of respiratory disease cases – LONG BEFORE the new coronavirus appeared.
The following link is in Italian but it is from January 2018 (i.e. well before the coronavirus hit) and describes exactly what I’m talking about:
The headline translates to “Milan ICU wards on verge of collapse due to number of flu cases”
Ask Silvio Berlusconi, my guy said:- “Bunga Bunga Party rules, once again!”
Every now and again you read something that adds to the sense of dread – such as the number of dead doctors that upon hearing about, you assume have contracted the virus trying to save patients. It’s interesting to look at the stats about the doctors :
Following the link from the Swiss site, we get to a list of 63 deceased doctors (of various specialities), with 61 of those listed alongside their birth dates. Of those 61, the average age of death is 70 years (Italian national average 81 male, 85.6 female) and the lifespans range from 48 to 90 years. The retirement age in Italy is 67, which puts about a third (22) of those listed under usual retirement age when they died, and two thirds above.
Maybe they brought octogenarian gynecologists out of retirement and put them on the front line fighting the virus, I really don’t know. I hope not.
” such as the number of dead doctors…”
Italy has 38 physicians/10000 and a mortality of 10,4/10,000/year. So any given month some 200 doctors would die in Italy, under normal circumstances. Correct me if calculations are wrong.
Now they have tested that 60 out of, say, 300 (1,5 month of testing times the monthly mortality for doctors) dead doctors carried the new mutation (or any mutation ?) of the Coronavirus. Ie. about 20 %.
Is this abnormal and has the mortality increased for doctors in Italy ?
63 Italian doctors of late middle age to elderly dying in 6 weeks sounds about right to me for any normal winter/spring period, and fits the general ‘hysteria hypothesis’ of ‘the test is the pandemic’.
If the age stats had shown a clear excess of physicians dying in the prime of life, that would be another matter, but they clearly do not.
We mustn’t lose sight of the fact that medics across the globe aren’t mortal like the rest of us. By the nature of what they do, they have discovered the secret of a disease-free existence so any deaths under the age of 100 have to be regarded with suspicion. The exceptional Covid-19 has broken through that doctrine. We should all be afraid, very afraid. 😉
It’s worth taking in to account that many of the medical teams are working incredibly long and stressful hours, this in itself may contribute to a higher death rate due to weakened immune systems through exhaustion. Recently an Italian doctor was interviewed, he had just recovered from CV19 and said we are all exhausted and weak.
Thank God that this is all in the Matrix, that NONE of this real!
You cannot imagine how relieved I am!
Thank you so much, genuinely, from the BOTTOM of my heart!
At the worst, it’s all a staged event, and with crisis actors feigning death, according to Flaxgirl / Petra and some others here.
I am utterly relieved that my friends in Italy and elsewhere are not really experiencing their lungs collapsing!
Thank God it’s all a conspiracy and tthat hey are really OK! I was so worried about them! What a knobhead I was! I bizarrely thought that my friends of 20+ years were actually telling me the truth from their hospital beds! ROFL!
OMG, how stupid I was to believe them! After all these years they were telling me lies, they were really Deep State agents! I was f*k1ng clueless for decades!
Thank God, Jehovah, Alah, Budda…but most especially, thanks to OffG and extra special thanks and kisses to Flaxgirl for revealing the TRUTH. I am forever indebted to you!
You must have a lot of elderly, sick friends!
Such a typical response from your ilk. Nobody here has said that people aren’t dying from Covid 19. But the data shows the world response is vastly overblown.
Knowing that you can’t refute measured and considered arguments, you resort to a juvenile post.
Thank goodness for the experts and reality checkers here.
Back to basics…
– 911 was a Mossad job
– Building 7 was detonated 20 minutes after the BBC reported it (yes I watched it live)
– NATO have sadly become warmongering bastards.
SARS 2 is genuinely killing too many people who would not normally succumb to pneumonia via Influenza. The total death rate for ALL disease this winter is irrelevant to those people who would otherwise still be alive if not for SARS2.
Those who cannot understand this are at best sociopaths, but typically far left ideologues, at worst Stalinists and PolPotists.
You forgot about the whole ediface of the State, including the third estate steaming rollering us all into a war based on a known lie of Sadams WMD…
otherwise, your argument is of the appeal to emotion variety….
The death total from economic armageddon will dwarf SARS2.
Here in Asia, where I am, some people I know have completely outsourced their thinking. These are people who fancy themselves as sophisticated, learned “liberals”. When I tell them about the economic cataclysm that’s riding in on the back of this bullshit, they shut their brains. It’s remarkable to see. They actually say the one has got nothing to do with the other. And that all they’re interested in is what the epidemiologists say about a virus running rampant around the globe. Science, you see, it’s all about the science. The implication being that I’m being anti-science. These morons have absolutely no idea what psychological mayhem lies around the corner. There will be an outbreak of despair, depression and suicides with these lockdowns, police controls and mass unemployment. The authorities know that. That’s why the police state is in place. They expect violence. And they intend to meet it with extreme violence. Already they’ve got people behaving like pathetic little Stasi snitches. When the pressure becomes too much to bear, it’s all going to explode. Thanks, you stupid “liberal” fucks. Now go get yourself injected by that prick Bill Gates. Since when did that software salesman become the world’s foremost expert on viruses?
Thanks for coming back with a less sarcastic response.
For me, I am not arguing that SARS2 does not kill people. It is impossible for me to make such a statement. Maybe it will cause a spike in excess mortality, more than the typical seasonal and yearly variations. So far the data says otherwise.
The death rate being vastly exaggerated by the media is certainly true.
But so far it looks like just a bad flu season. Even some medical experts say this.
Questioning the world response to this does not mean I am a monster. I am none of the above.
I feel sorry for people directly and indirectly affected by SARS2.
Do you not find it odd that suddenly the government cares so much for old, sick people that they are willing to sacrifice the entire economy in order to save some of them from dying a little early?
These are the same old people made to live on a pittance of a pension. Made to wait months/years for operations. Refused the best cancer treatments due to cost. Made to sell their homes to pay for care. Made to pay for a TV license in order to make their lonely existence a little more tolerable. etc. etc.
The budget is tight, we can only give you a £1 per week pension rise this year, sorry!
But suddenly, the leaders demolish the economy and turn on the magic money tap, creating billions of £s from thin air. Suddenly, the old and sick are the top priority.
WE MUST SAVE THEM FROM COVID-19 AT ALL COST!!!
“ALL COST” being:
Removing civil liberties
Imposing martial law
Preventing people for gathering together
Preventing people from working
Preventing people from having an opinion contrary to the official narrative
Making people suspicious of each other
Making people snitch on each other
Destroying the economy
and notably …
Making old lonely isolated people feel MORE lonely and isolated
Cancelling operations that old people desperately need
Cancelling cancer screening that generally benefits older people
Causing mass panic buying
Making it much harder for older people to get food
Exposing old people to the virus by making them go out to get shopping since all online delivery slots are taken
It would have been much better to isolate vulnerable people and their families properly and genuinely provide for their every need whilst allowing the rest of society to carry on as normal.
This would have a) genuinely protected the most vulnerable people and b) had a much gentler impact on the economy.
But, of course, such a measured and caring response, genuinely targeted to help the people most in need, would not allow the furthering of the agenda, would it.
SARS 2 is genuinely killing too many people who would not normally succumb to pneumonia via Influenza. The total death rate for ALL disease this winter is irrelevant to those people who would otherwise still be alive if not for SARS2.
Presumably you would agree that a virus cannot decrease the death rate among people who are not infected with it. Therefore, if the total death rate remains essentially the same, the most that can be attributed to the virus is that it kills people who probably would have died anyway, from flu, pneumonia, or whatever chronic illness they suffer from.
If it were really true that the virus was killing large numbers of people “who would not normally succumb to pneumonia” or something else, the total death rate would have to increase, and it doesn’t appear that it has.
There’s really not much more to it than that.
Credit where it’s due Frank: 911 was a joint Mossad-CIA job.
As was 11/22/63
If this man’s irony were any richer I’d be throwing up.
Okay. Let’s be frank about what IS real Frank:
The One Per Cent are real.
The US empire is real.
Psychopathy at the top of hierarchies is real.
Endless wars are real.
Unfettered greed is real.
Ecological collapse is real.
Fear as a weapon is real.
Paranoia is real.
And of course anti fascists at alternative news sites are real.
Agree with your comment FD… A fearful people are a controlled people.
I assume you’re in Victoria as well?
If you have a get together on your own property with over 2 people – $1600 on the spot fine. Financial hardship is a classic way of keeping people under the thumb.
As are lots of visible police and the army on the streets. Also agree with you about unfettered greed. That is what Neoliberalism has been based on.
We’re in the Victorian bush Geezah.
Evacuated three times in the last ten years because of approaching fires, but still intact.
Like you, I avoid the MSM except to catch the ‘dreadlines’
Tried to educate a few friends and family with the Truth, but they’ve all been sucked into the vortex of panic.
I’m doing a spot of painting (domestic), songwriting and singing in my shed.
At least I know there’s someone else in Victoria who ‘gets it’ and has their eyes open😁. I did met a couple people in Melbourne in the last 12 days out selling the mag (suspended for now) who got what was going on.
Everyone else I know has also been sucked in tho I told them to check out OffG, The Corbett Report, Swiss Propaganda Research, etc.
Have a good evening✌️
I really enjoy Dinkum…!! 👏
I.e., the world, the flesh, and the devil—all real. Bless you, brother.+++
The Italian Health Authority has already admitted, that the deaths due to Cv19 are overstated by around 90%.
So, yes, the shocking thing is, people are dying that cannot be denied. It is not ‘crisis actors’, quite correct. But, many of the deaths are being wrongly attributed to cv19. The figures are grossly inflated…
Why don’t the quacks of doom explain: There have been 128,271 deaths in England and Wales so far in 2020, compared with an average for the same time of year for the past five years of 133,165…
Do you like Father Ted?
Just in case not posted here looks likely to be a debate on GMTV – Morgan and Hitchens. Hitchens seems to have accepted an invitation after arguing on Twitter. Hope it goes ahead as an opportunity to instill some much needed common sense.
Fortunately for us ( the humans) there are probably more scientists and researchers alive today than in the whole of history put together (no proof).
The science on this is fast and full genome sequencing equally so – and getting quicker by the day!
In such an environment the only way of covering-up the truth is by a full spectrum narrative construct and quick management of the countering truths. Limited hangouts become more frequent as real knowledge escapes into the wild uncontrolled world media as a consequence trying to fool their audiences that some exclusive investigative journalism is taking place …i mean people quoting the Sun ffs! Never mind the many controlled sites.
Japanese scientists for example cannot be as easily dismissed as other non-western ones.
If they are proving that the multiple strains around the world are evolutions of a single source, from a single place then identifying that zero point becomes easy by tracing it. Like following foot prints! Easy when you know which ones you are looking for.
It becomes inevitable. It is inevitable. The footprint is identified. The hunt is afoot. The culprit is in sight …
Over a 100 non peer reviewed just TODAY at this one site by intrepid sherlocks https://connect.medrxiv.org/relate/content/181
Get reading folks!
Hmm dungroanin, so long as they have an ology (as Beattie would say in that old phone advert) you know you are safe. I only have an istry …. so you should never trust me 🙂
I rather started going off that money grubbing crone when she was earning zillions from the privatised industry and completely
I completely lost it with her when she turned into a tory promoting, anti Corbynite harpie screeching Judaeo phobia lies.
What a nasty piece of work!
What the ideal world of self-isolators currently looks like
It’s important to bear in mind here that we DO live with some excess mortality associated with influenza, e.g. the 2017/18 season:
We tolerate that as part of life without shutting down society, which is right and proper.
Screwed up my formatting, but you get the picture.
Is that a quote from Picasso?