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Coronavirus Fact-Check #1: “Covid19 is having an unprecedented impact on ICUs” The media claim this pandemic’s effect on hospitals around the world has never been seen before, but is that true?

This the first of a new on-going series of micro-articles tackling the prevailing, media-generated talking points of on Sars-Cov2 and Covid19.

Those of you who have spent any time debating or discussing the current coronavirus “pandemic” on social media will almost certainly have encountered an argument that goes something like this:

“Coronavirus is nothing like the flu, the seasonal flu doesn’t overwhelm health services like this.”

But is this true? We’ve done some research.

In 2018 hospitals all across the United States were full to capacity with flu patients. Alabama declared a state of emergency. Elective surgeries were cancelled, patients were turned away.

California hospitals were “war zones” where people were treated in hastily erected tents.

The same year ICUs in Milan were “totally overrun” with flu cases.

In December of 2019 the NHS had to implement “emergency temporary beds” in 52% of its hospitals to account for their regular “winter crisis”. Most of those hospitals still had temporary beds operating from the previous winter.

Last November experts were publishing reports warning that the NHS was under too much pressure to deal with the seasonal flu.

The 2009 Swine Flu pandemic turned out to be no worse than a bad flu season in the end, but nevertheless had a huge impact on hospitals across the United States.

[UPDATE 3/4/18Our readers have done their usual stellar job and sent in some great examples.]

In Spain, flu collapses hospitals almost every year.

In 2017 the Spanish-language Huffington Post site asked “Why does the flu mean collapse in Spanish hospitals?”.

In the 2017/18 flu season, hospitals all over the country were in a state of collapse.

Last March, hospitals were at over 200% patient capacity.

In 2015 patients were sleeping in corridors.

Even in January this year, before the coronavirus had impacted Europe, nurses were complaining that the flu season was stretching healthcare to breaking point.

A paper in the JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) states that Lombardy’s ICUs “typically run at 85-90% capacity in the winter months”.

Going by just the last couple of years, the evidence suggests flu severely impacts health services quite frequently.

Raising the question: How does the current state of ICUs compare with these other recent crises? To which, we must remember, no one ever suggested the solution was destroying the economy and instituting a police state.

Are you aware of any other examples of recent health-care crises? Post them in the comments below, or drop us an email, and we’ll add them to our list. Likewise, if you have a common misconception on the coronavirus you’d like to see refuted, suggest it and we may include it in our series.

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Education Abroad
Education Abroad
Oct 16, 2020 5:08 AM

Nice work , actually now everybody needs to clear their thoughts on this virus.

adamf
adamf
May 18, 2020 1:04 PM

Hello,

Yes, in Canada : https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/02/13/toronto-hospital-flu/

Have a nice day

Pepper
Pepper
May 12, 2020 5:18 PM

In reply to Mik W and HjS, David Icke mentioned in his interview on London Real that families of hospitalised elderly had written to him saying that the hospitals were trying to get older people to sign the DNR paper once they were in hospital. As family members could not get into the hospital they could not intervene. He mentioned one lady of 80, who had been hospitalised for an orthopaedic problem, but who had all her faculties about her and not sick with anything else was asked to sign such a paper which she refused to do.

The irony is that the lock down was supposed to have been implemented to protect the older people.

Mik W
Mik W
Apr 25, 2020 10:20 PM

a friend of mine works in guy’s st thomas, where a large part of the COVID patients are kept in London. she works on a ward where the worst cases are kept, apart from those who are in ICU. she’s told me that roughly 95% of the patients there are ‘DNR’ Do Not Resuscitate – in other words these are patients that are in a stage of their life where they are considered not worth keeping alive, or better off dead.

HjS
HjS
May 11, 2020 10:12 PM
Reply to  Mik W

To say “they are not worth keeping alive” is an unbelievable lie! This is fakenews! If you are that stupid not to understand the settings of “Triage” – shut up!

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 16, 2020 9:20 PM

14.04.2020

Neutralizing antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in a COVID-19 recovered patient cohort and their implications

Authors measured antibodies in plasma collected from 175 COVID-19 recovered patients with mild symptoms. around 30% had very low levels of antibodies and 6% had no detectable antibodies at all, even 14 days after recovery.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v1.full.pdf

Annoying person
Annoying person
Apr 9, 2020 8:31 AM

All of those examples are from countries where neoliberal models for public health are enacted. There is no level of spare capacity. But why did China have to mobilise its resources and be so stringent over this? https://youtu.be/UqdNbuPrkYc

HjS
HjS
May 11, 2020 10:18 PM

What about NHS? Neoliberal or just insufficent because of “other reasons”?

Lee Ashton
Lee Ashton
Apr 9, 2020 7:18 AM

My local hospital the Medway Maritime in Kent England was reported to be like a war zone on the highest alert level. Operations were cancelled and patients were not receiving adequate care. This was January 2019. The newspaper then said that conditions were even worse in 2018.

Deplorable D
Deplorable D
Apr 7, 2020 12:15 AM

Interesting comparisons. I have posted several about the way different countries are responding to Wuhan Virus and their results and death rates. Now that bell curves are forming, we can see the length of time of the left side of the growth rate, which predicts the right side decline. There is a chart on Wattsupwiththat showing despite what actions countries take, they peak about the same time in terms of the growth rate of cases and deaths.

So, here are some numbers of when a country first started climbing in case/death count and when they show a peak (currently) on a bell curve.

Spain 3/10-4/2 23 days, lockdown/no masks
Italy 3/7-3/28 21 days, lockdown/no masks
Sweden 3/24-4/2 9 days, no lockdown/no masks
S Korea 2/20-3/3 12 days, light lockdown/wear masks
Hong Kong 3/17-3/29 12 days, light lockdown/wear masks
Taiwan 3/14-3/23 9 days, no lockdown/wear masks
US 3/22-4/4 13 days, lockdown/no masks
Belgium 3/20-3/31 11 days, lockdown/no masks
United Kingdom 3/21-4/4 14 days, late lockdown/no masks
Germany 3/20-4/2 13 days, lockdown/no masks
France 3/18-4/2 15 days, lockdown/no masks

Spain and Italy possibly due to demographics had a longer climb to the top. Otherwise, lockdown or no lockdown, masks or no masks does not seem to matter. Sweden has been no worse off than any other country, and their response has been to allow the virus to run its course naturally. It looks like no matter what policy a country follows, the rise to the peak is about 2 weeks. Perhaps this is something to look at. I am just an observer with a knack for noticing patterns.

Objective
Objective
Apr 7, 2020 3:04 AM
Reply to  Deplorable D

Absolutely right, our bodies have evolved over millennia to deal with viruses, evidently the numbers show even the best health care in the world has negligible impact on the overall outcome.

Its all boils down to neo-liberal ideology and reliance on vaccines, liberals are control freaks, lets get back to respecting nature not corporate profit.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 8:56 AM
Reply to  Deplorable D

It’s the ‘Fort Detrick virus’, actually.

Penelope
Penelope
Apr 12, 2020 5:30 AM
Reply to  Deplorable D

Dear Deplorable D
You would love Dr. Knut Wittkowski’s presentation of just that pattern & of what interrupts it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg

AndrewF
AndrewF
Apr 14, 2020 12:54 AM
Reply to  Deplorable D

Actually, it’s just the science surrounding these things – the Knut….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK5sKNCSsX4

Antonym
Antonym
Apr 5, 2020 6:44 AM

Is it true? Yes in all hot spots.
In the NYT: Coronavirus has pummeled a Brooklyn hospital, and its patients.

Yes, the NYT meta morphed in a Deep State megaphone the last decades, but can they fool New Yorkers about New York?

janaka
janaka
Apr 4, 2020 9:42 PM

It may be relevant to the conversation about hospitalization, and all the other irregularities with the idea this is a special infectious disease, to become aware of what is happening, in the US, with “influenza-like illnesses” (ILI), the term of art for “flu”, a real cluster***k of a concept. Here is a link to the CDC website on the 2019-2020 “flu” season (Oct 1, 2019-Mar 28,2020) in the US: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm.

flu illnesses: 39,000,000-55,000,000
flu hospitalizations: 400,000-730,000
flu deaths: 24,000-63,000

Followed by the following text:

[begin quote]
*Because influenza surveillance does not capture all cases of flu that occur in the U.S., CDC provides these estimated ranges to better reflect the larger burden of influenza. These estimates are calculated based on CDC’s weekly influenza surveillance data and are preliminary.

**Influenza testing across the United States may be higher than normal at this time of year because of the COVID-19 pandemic. These estimates may partly reflect increases in testing in recent weeks and may be adjusted downward once the season is complete and final data for the 2019/20 season are available. [end quote]

Since I think any case or fatality in which C19, or its surrogate, is detected is identified as a C19 case or fatality, then some proportion of those cases/fatalities have been reassigned from the above cases (i.e., since those susceptible to C19 are also susceptible to ILI minus C19 [C19 is an ILI also]). It would make sense then, i think, to understand some of those cases/fatalities have a double identity – they could be assigned to “flu” or C19. Schrodinger’s C19. That would mean at the end of the day the flu mortality is going to be under-counted, and the C19 mortality over-counted. I think this means the true ILI mortality will be determined by adding C19 deaths to “flu” deaths, and only when we have that number can we determine how much of a bump, if any, C19 gave to the seasonal ILI burden. In this regard, it is interesting that the the fatality rate of the 2009 Swine Flu season turned out in the long run to be less than the “regular” flu.

I think my logic makes some sense, but maybe i missed something.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Apr 4, 2020 5:32 PM

The 10% fatality rate is obviously wrong – given the ~4% in Wuhan.

It would indicate that many more infections exist that have not been picked up and that the epidemic has been spreading for longer than admitted – and that would also explain why people who are dying of other factors ALSO have covid.

So any guess of what the genuine rate of infection may be?

Heres a clue
(70%??)

‘Confirmation came from the results of tests and swabs: out of 60 citizens of Castiglione D’Adda, one of the municipalities in the former red area of ​​Lodi, 40 tested positive without knowing it.All asymptomatic, escaped official statistics: they came into contact with the disease, they did not develop it, but they produced antibodies, …

https://www.lastampa.it/topnews/primo-piano/2020/04/02/news/coronavirus-castiglione-d-adda-e-un-caso-di-studio-il-70-dei-donatori-di-sangue-e-positivo-1.38666481

notreallyanonymous
notreallyanonymous
Apr 4, 2020 5:18 PM

The NHS in the UK has been in terrible shape due to real-term cuts to the system every single year since the conservative party took power. It has been systematically underfunded and sold to private interests – the theory, I assume, is when it finally collapses, it will be fully sold to the private healthcare industry and an insurance based system like the USA will be thrust onto the British public.

Having said that, here are is a bit more about the crisis and underfunding.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2019/12/five-reasons-why-nhs-winter-may-be-different

UK bed capacity at ‘over 90%’ all year round, according to this article from the Independent:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nhs-ae-gp-appointments-hospital-beds-winter-crisis-staff-a9348361.html

Dr. John H
Dr. John H
Apr 4, 2020 3:46 PM

What about the ventilator shortage that is being reported in the media?

Dr. Magoo
Dr. Magoo
Apr 5, 2020 6:58 PM
Reply to  Dr. John H

Its possible, that WRONG Ventilation KILLED and KILLS MORE, as it helps!
See for Example: https://medicaldialogues.in/critical-care/news/prone-position-improves-ventilation-in-severe-covid-19-patients-findswuhan-study-64202 & two VIDEOS from One INSIDE the Hospitals (USA/NYC): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GYTc53r2o bzw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWaq8HoEROU

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 4, 2020 8:12 AM

Below is my crude executive summary of responses from Hendrik Streek, a professor of virology during a recent podium discussion (German) on ZDF, an MSM channel.

Streek led a team that conducted a house-to-house study on covid-19 infection pathways and infectiousness. The study examined symptoms, how people became infected, what medicines were taken, took saliva and blood samples, tested for presence of covid-19 on door handles, in the air, on toilet bowls, mobile phones, kitchen surfaces, etc.

Findings
Almost everyone reports loss of smell and taste that lasts a few days, severe enough to not be able to smell vinegar. Some partially lose hearing.
No living viruses found on any surface, even in households with several infectious inhabitants.
The only way we can spread covid-19 is face-to-face coughing, hugging, etc. Catching it from tins at the supermarket is almost impossible, unless infected people cough on the tins and someone else picks them up, and rubs their hands in their face shortly thereafter.

Recommendations
Carefully rolling back lockdown in accordance with what science is now establishing as it collects solid data.
Finds Korea’s approach sensible: massive testing producing data that then determines how to react in a highly target way, and how best to protect the vulnerable … no lockdown.
German government should have listened to multiple virologists with different areas of specialisation, not just Dr Drosten.

Opinion
He finds the lockdown measures “very drastic”, especially considering how comparable covid-19 is with recent flu pandemics, none of which needed lockdowns.

What I find encouraging is that his views are finding a wide public audience on a major German channel. He is calm, measured, understated, reasonable and polite. He uses German polite understatement to make his points well without offending anyone.

jim
jim
Apr 4, 2020 9:05 AM
Reply to  Toby Russell

No living viruses found on any surface, even in households with several infectious inhabitants.

Viruses are not alive. Viruses can’t replicate on their own. Wikipedia says that viruses replicate inside cells. The alternative theory is that so called viruses are created by the cells themselves as a reaction to toxins or damage. (So viruses don’t really exist, not in the way they are traditionally portrayed.) Which also means you can’t “catch” a virus from somebody else. “No living viruses found” corroborates (again) the alternative theory.
The only way we can spread covid-19 is face-to-face coughing, hugging, etc</em

That is the assumption. That is what you have to assume if you believe the official story on viruses. Notice how they have to go to the extreme "face-to-face coughing" because it's so hard to prove infectiousness.

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 4, 2020 9:18 AM
Reply to  jim

Perhaps I should have used the word “active” rather than “living”, but I do take your point, at least to the degree that there are so many unanswered questions around viruses. I watched a presentation by Andrew Kaufmann on exosomes which I found very compelling, so do have a big interest in determining its veracity and thus the veracity of the view you have. The documentary on HIV AIDS, House of Numbers, is equally compelling, but I lack the expertise to be certain one way or the other about all viruses being in fact exosomes.

Tony
Tony
Apr 4, 2020 12:09 PM
Reply to  jim

Jim,

If I may, I would like to add the following comment:

They can’t prove that coronavirus or any of its alleged ‘mutations’ are indeed infectious or that it the virus is cause of COVID-19 because no scientist has ever claimed to have physically isolated it by the proper methods of ultrafiltration, ultracentrifugation and electron microscopy. If that’s the case, they cannot claim that an alleged virus is a cause of anything

Moreover, there is no original scientific paper that can conclusively demonstrate the existence of this alleged ‘pathogenic virus’ or that it causes COVID-19. No scientist has produced one – why?

See my other posts on other threads for virus isolation details and the erroneous methods being used that claim to detect viral antibodies etc.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 4, 2020 11:15 PM
Reply to  jim

The alternative theory is that so called viruses are created by the cells themselves as a reaction to toxins or damage. (So viruses don’t really exist, not in the way they are traditionally portrayed.) Which also means you can’t “catch” a virus from somebody else. “

Which raises the interesting question of whether you can really catch a virus from an animal or non-human creature.

dhinds
dhinds
Apr 5, 2020 4:32 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

If “”viruses” are created by the cells themselves as a reaction”

It is a Behavior that can be replicated by providing stimuli. (That’s why laughter is added to the soundtracks of comedies).

In this case, the question is what conditions are propitiating the syndrome? (Both the expectation and the reaction. Obviously, the expectation of it is already present – and in fact was planted in the public’s consciousness in a now very visible way by Bill Gates -a known and very influential con man- in 2015).

Lastly, there are also obviously very clear winners and losers (in terms of economics and political power), in the context of this scenario.

fred
fred
Apr 4, 2020 6:50 AM

https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1244730196038647809

To the 4 nurses in Ireland who fought so hard for so many patients, but who themselves fell ill, and have now passed RIP
https://twitter.com/HSELive/status/1244942663142563841

@HSELive doesn’t comment on individual cases to protect people’s privacy. However, when we become aware of fake news that causes distress to our staff and families we must act. Contrary to tweets sent yesterday – thankfully none of our nurses have died in Ireland from #COVID19.

fred
fred
Apr 4, 2020 6:14 AM

Coronavirus: Italy’s COVID-19 situation is dire but a photo of coffins is not from the coronavirus pandemic
However, the photo is unrelated to COVID-19. It shows some of the coffins of migrants who died after a boat sank off the southern Italian island of Lampedusa in 2013.

Antonym
Antonym
Apr 4, 2020 2:49 AM

In the south of Holland they had to move ICU corona patients first to the north and now to Germany, even-though they expanded capacity strongly : https://www.ad.nl/dossier-coronavirus/nu-1324-coronapaenshy-tienenshy-ten-op-intensive-care-stijging-van-51~ac3b50db/

Ab-normal.

Antonym
Antonym
Apr 4, 2020 5:47 AM
Reply to  Antonym

Or here: Verder aangescherpte richtlijnen voor opname intensive care bij beddentekort

New Dutch ICU rule yesterday: “If there are not enough intensive care beds left, there may be a situation where no one at the IC is still being resuscitated. If the shortage of beds were to increase even more, people aged 70 years and older will no longer be admitted.”

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Apr 4, 2020 1:08 AM

Duh – it was about the NHS, stoopid!

Not brexit brexit brexit for 3 years.

US now has a quarter of all cases in total and rising. Field hospitals are not what civilians, of the richest countries in the world, should have to be facing.

Think the lock down is a elaborate joke?

Hey if there was some other ulterior motive – like a greatet disastet looming – then I’d say the world government is doing the right thing.

For example the astronomers have found a big one heading our way…
They want us all having our last days at home with our families …or something like that.

Anyway it will be de riguer to be wearing masks in the future – I’m designing one with a mouth hole that allows quaffing of beer and smoking. I have it lined with a foldable led screen so i can project my face through it, photoshopped for a chisel jaw and great teeth.
I think it may set back facial recognition investments substantially.

These Burka wearing ladies won’t be so easy to mock and bully now.

Ma Malone
Ma Malone
Apr 15, 2020 11:30 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

da hole will not impede you to suck c*cks either.

Dors
Dors
Apr 3, 2020 7:11 PM

OffG: If you have a common misconception on the coronavirus you’d like to see refuted, suggest it

Wearing masks ! It’s all like
“the other side is very irresponsible and stupid for saying they should be … / NOT be worn.”

Noteworthy :

This NP propaganda misrepresents 3 scientific articles, while being silent on the scientific work that found COVID19 is NOT spread by asymptomatic infected persons…

(https://twitter.com/denisrancourt/status/1246070568090288128)

CPR
CPR
Apr 3, 2020 5:41 PM

I very much mistrust the mainstream media. But I am not sure I agree with this assessment.

The author is basically noting that in some places the hospitals are already often at capacity during Influenza season (Lombardy Italy, Spain). They are also saying that in different years, at different locations (California, Alabama), flu cases create a surge in occupancy/strain capacity. This implies that some hospitals are full, and at certain times struggling to maintain adequate care is a challenge. This is well known, and hardly changes the current situation. A full hospital last year can still be even more overrun by COVID today.

There are also readers in the comments who then go on to say that they’ve seen videos (or personally seen) hospital ICUs that are virtually “empty” and there is no evidence that the system is being overtaxed. Which is it? Are hospitals always full, even without COVID? Or are they all empty, as some readers suggest?

Fact is, there is no evidence that hospitals are “empty” in areas where the pandemic has hit (e.g. New York). If you have friends who work in healthcare in Spain and New York, ask them. There are many posted videos showing the opposite: Hospitals are being overrun with coughing critical COVID patients. Doctors and nurses are traumatized. NY state is offering 13,000$ a week for physicians assistants and nurse practitioners to come there to work. No doubt the hospitals are making money, but why would they do that if they didn’t have the patients.

I agree we need to be cautious about how we interpret the mainstream media. But the Center for Disease Control and other science organizations are not out to get us. This is super scary, and people are taking refuge in the idea that it’s not that bad. The world isn’t going to end, but it’s bad.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 3, 2020 7:09 PM
Reply to  CPR

Are hospitals always full, even without COVID?

One would certainly expect main hospitals to be fairly full most of the time, with continual arrivals and departures of patients and their relatives with or without ‘Covid19’.

Or are they all empty, as some readers suggest?

It’s not OffG readers suggesting it; they are recounting what others claim to have observed and filmed in multiple locations.

If we are not being deceived, I wonder how you might explain the following footage from different locations and the reactions of staff confronted about the ‘visual’ anomalies. Not even routine patients visible, never mind Covid19 emergencies.

This footage was linked on the website of Swiss Propaganda Research.

SteveEss
SteveEss
Apr 3, 2020 10:34 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Awesome video link, Judy!
I knew I’d seen that hospital ward before (In Italy)… Suddenly it’s in NYC… Abrakadabra!

There’s about 40 ‘deaf-ear’ people I know that I’ve sent that video to… Lets see if they also have ‘blind-eye’…
Thank you, and SPR…!

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Apr 3, 2020 7:10 PM
Reply to  CPR

Unless you are claiming the flu has not routinely overwhelmed hospitals in years past, you are not disagreeing with this article, because that is the only point it is making.

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 3, 2020 7:32 PM
Reply to  CPR

The reports might be true to some degree, but not necessarily for the reasons given. Like you, I do not trust the MSM at all. So I try to crunch the numbers and see what I get:

Population USA (today): 330,537,436
Population NYC (2018): 8,398,748
Number of US covid deaths (today): 6,786

Population of NYC as % of USA: 2.54%
2.54% of US deaths: 172.36
If two weeks since crisis started, ave. deaths per day in NYC: 12.31 (though this is averaged out, so hard to see how relevant this figure is)
BUT: daily NYC deaths: 420
The numbers so far don’t suggest that morgues and crematoriums should be overwhelmed, even if we double the figure because NYC is a hotspot for the disease. And don’t forget, the people that die ‘with’ covod-19 are the elderly and sick, so won’t actually cause a blip in the average numbers.

Full hospitals
Number of (acute care) hospitals in NYC: 188 (I copied the list at the linked site into a spreadsheet to count the entries)
If daily deaths ‘with’ covid are at around 20-50, this should not overload 188 acute care hospitals.

As for the number of cases hospitalised, that will be some percentage of total recorded cases.
Total cases USA: approx. 253,000 (recovered cases removed from current total)
% of total cases hospitalised: 30% (I just picked this hit, don’t know how accurate)
No. hospitalised cases USA: 75,900
% in NYC (2.54% of total): 1,928
Number of staffed beds in NYC: 57,261
Number hospitals: 188
Approx. cases per hospital: 10.2 (approx. 20 if we double cos NYC is a hotspot)

The figures I found from ordinary sources suggest there is no need for NYC hospitals to be overcrowded. What explains the MSM stories is not clear to me, either cynical manipulation of existing facts to sell papers and increase viewing rates, or something more sinister, but it doesn’t appear to be the numbers.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Apr 4, 2020 4:56 AM
Reply to  CPR

Well said CPR. Yes I massively distrust the MSM, but that doesn’t mean COVID is a conspiracy as some lunatics are claiming. It won’t change their minds until perhaps they collapse and can’t breathe.

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 4, 2020 7:09 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

That would depend on our definition of conspiracy. For me, conspiring is planning to do something in secret you know people won’t agree with, but is the right thing (somehow) to do despite that. Isn’t that how govt. works, a lot of the time? “We can’t handle the truth”, after all, and there’s the official secrets act, top-secret and above-top-secret classifications, and so on. The world runs on conspiring. For me, the mere fact that “conspiracy theory” is a pejorative is evidence of just how much conspiring goes on. It’s necessary. It’s how the world works.

Now that doesn’t mean there are no “lunatics” claiming this or that wild theory is true. But there are also “lunatics” insisting highly feasible theories are not true. “Lunatics” can be slavishly attached to orthodox thinking, or slavishly attached to crazy thinking. That’s what “lunatics” of the type you imply, do, by definition. So we can hardly blame them for it.

In the case of covid, the numbers don’t justify the UK’s, France’s, Germany’s, the US’s … etc., draconian measures. Many highly expert and reasonable voices are saying so, and the numbers support them in my view. Is there some conspiracy afoot here? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Perhaps it’s rank opportunism right across the world. Perhaps the numbers are going to get far worse than we’ve ever seen. We don’t know enough yet either way, though I will be extremely surprised if the latter turns out to be true, especially considering the data analysis shared on yesterday’s UK Column broadcast. What is not justified, either way, is dogmatic assertions that one side or the other is correct on this point of conspiring.

It won’t change their minds until perhaps they collapse and can’t breathe.

What will change your mind? Never collapsing and not breathing? I mean, that happens to us all one way or the other, in the end. Don’t forget, we can’t do this twice – although recent flu epidemics exceeded these numbers, suggesting no lockdown was necessary, no forced vaccination laws were needed, no removal of jury trials for death-by-covid-19 cases, etc., not to mention Sweden’s example – so the govt. can say, “See, we flattened the curve, protected the NHS and saved lives! Go us! And you guys out there were just great!” We cannot prove beyond all reasonable doubt that behaving in a more relaxed manner would not have made the matter much worse.

That said, I’m about to post a summary of an interview of a German specialist on how covid-19 is transmitted. His is the only research I am aware of on this important point. The interview was on ZDF, a mainstream channel in Germany, so has been seen by millions. If his research is sound, the draconian measures were not needed in Germany, nor in the UK, etc.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 9:06 AM
Reply to  Toby Russell

There are open conspiracies galore. The conspiracy to oppose the use of hydroxychloroquine is one, based on BigPharma greed and MSM hatred of Trump. It’s like nearly all MSM conspiracies-no secret orders required. Just let it be known what the ‘powers-that-be’ require, and the robopaths fall into line, 100%, in ventriloqular Groupthink.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 4, 2020 3:04 PM
Reply to  CPR

CPR, care to comment on the Italian hospital promoted as being a NY hospital in the video below ?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 3, 2020 5:05 PM

http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/04/more-on-sars-cov-to-ace2-binding-and-true-covid-19-that-discredits-uk-governments-pretext-for-creating-economic-disaster/

“More On SARS-COV-ACE2 Binding & “True” Covid-19 That Discredits UK Government’s Pretext For Creating Economic Disaster”

“The germ is nothing; the terrain is everything”.
Louis Pasteur

Joerg
Joerg
Apr 3, 2020 5:04 PM

There is a total lack of logic with those governments that are shutting down the country:
The supporters of the “herd immunity” strategy (Sweden – without coercive measures) and those of the “curve flattening” strategy (USA, UK, F, D and other) agree that the number of infections with SARS-Cov-2 in both strategies will be exactly the same . The only difference is that – unlike the “herd immunity” strategy – the “curve flattening” strategy will result in not one, but several subsequent waves of infection (2?, 3?, 4?).
There is also agreement that the number of Covid-19 deaths in both strategies will be exactly the same. Only(!) if hospital capacities are insufficient in a country will the herd immunity strategy this will result in more deaths because sick people who could have been saved in the hospital (respirators) can no longer get in there because of the overcrowding.

Such a danger never existed for example in Germany (probably also in the Netherlands, Denmark and so on) ! The tough measures (curfew, social distancing, closing nearly all shops and restaurants) were ordered in the 12th.week. But as shown in the graphic by the Robert Koch Institute comment image ) there would have been no respiratory illnesses (including all kinds of corona viruses) just a few weeks after the 12th week (mid March).

In addition this: 85% of those suffering from Covid-19 suffer from little or no symptoms at all from the disease. A clear sign that the population (at least in East Asia, USA, Europe) has long since developed an immunity to corona viruses (including: SARS-Cov-2) at the latest since the wave of corona infections in Europe in 2002/03

Every year in Germany, at least 8000 people die in the winter respiratory disease wave (popularly: “flu wave”). In winter 2017/18 there were even 25,100 deaths. Like probably in all countries also in Germany exclusively the strategy of “herd immunity” has always been followed – even in winter 2017/18!
Why was there now a deviation – shortly before the wave of diseases ended (see graph above)?

Her one explanation:
comment image

Joerg
Joerg
Apr 3, 2020 5:19 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Let me add this: A few days ago the German minister of health declared that 45% of hospital beds are free and waiting for Covid-19 patients.

What a waste of free hospital beds!
Also with this “curve flattening” strategy we will have, let’s say, three waves of infections.
So when any one of these curves goes down (possibly very fast) we don’t have enough infected to fill the hospital beds.
So then the governments have to advice the opposite of “social distancing”. That is: Not to stay inside the house, to hug, to kiss, to shake hands and to go to bed with each other as often as possible. Also: Standing very, very close to each other at the cash register in the supermarket.

Germs Bond
Germs Bond
Apr 3, 2020 8:42 PM
Reply to  Joerg

Ha ha remember the distancing should also reduce flu and common cold. The hospitals will be triple empty.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Apr 3, 2020 4:54 PM

Some people are really nice. Whilst we know a lot of people who live in the road we live, and met many more in The Street Party we had a few years ago, a couple who we don’t know are posting a leaflet through every door in our road, offering help, and setting up an online community via telephone numbers, whatsapp, facebook to help keep us all alive – and deliver stuff.

My wife and I had already done the deliver stuff, to a friend who lives a few miles away, who’s 91 year old Dad, died earlier this week, and she is self isolating, because she thinks she has got it too.

So we haven’t given up yet, and I reckon, the same kind of thing is happenning all over the world.

We are not dead yet.

We have got a community.

Tony

Ted
Ted
Apr 3, 2020 3:52 PM

If you haven’t seen this yet, it is possibly evidence that the USian official view of Covid19 is under pressure … likely because it is not yielding anything close to the predicted scary numbers. Also note where the 2.2 million deaths number came from (drum roll) Team Neil Ferguson!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/02/experts-trumps-advisers-doubt-white-houses-240000-coronavirus-deaths-estimate/

Ted
Ted
Apr 3, 2020 3:46 PM

Anyone notice this opening from the linked 2018 LA Times article?
.

Ana Oktay rushed to the hospital in late December struggling to breathe, with a 102-degree fever and a cough that wouldn’t let up.

​​​​​She expected doctors to tell her she had pneumonia or bronchitis.

“They were just like: ‘It’s just influenza A. It’s just what’s going around,’” said Oktay, 49.

An influenza A strain known as H3N2 is making people so ill in California that thousands have shown up in recent weeks at hospitals struggling to fight the infection.

Exactly the same symptoms of COVID19? But then just a boring and normal strain of influenza. Which raises the question, is anyone even testing for influenza anymore since a month ago?

Delta Gee
Delta Gee
Apr 3, 2020 3:29 PM

Here is the US there are now many claims supported by free lance video evidence of no overcrowding of hospitals even in New York City. Also, the 2 US Navy hospital ships have had very few patients transferred to them in either LA or NYC. Can Off Guardian or someone else respond to this one way or the other.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Apr 3, 2020 4:15 PM
Reply to  Delta Gee

It appears to me from numerous sources, that

1. Most Doctors GP’s surgeries have been closed and replaced by online diagnosis.
2. Most operations for even serious diseases such as cancer, have been rescheduled to October
3. On seeing videos taken, even from outside hospitals from various places across the world, I often see a photoshoot – for propaganda purposes, with for example emergency supplies of (I guess blood) of large numbers of motorcycles in unison. They together park outside the hospital, and large numbers of medical staff, from inside the hospital greet them, and they all clap. Meanwhile, there is no evidence of any actual patients, and maybe 1 if any ambulances.
4. I have seen the videos from inside the hospitals, taken by people, who just walked in, and it seems there is almost no one else there.

In my view this does not represent real life now, and whilst I have no personal medical or military experience, both my older brothers volunteered to work for The Royal Army Medical Corps.

Personally, I think this is far worse than most people think.

The Mass Human Cull is on, and there will be no resistance. In fact most people will queue up for it, whilst I try to ignore them, and dig my garden to grow food. It’s impossible to buy it online now.

Tony

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 9:09 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Another open conspiracy-to use the plague as an excuse to further the drive to privatise the NHS.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 7, 2020 12:46 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

In my neck of the woods it is perfectly possible to buy food online from many shops which deliver it to one’s door, and from farmers and organic produce associations who also deliver fresh vegetables to one’s door.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 3, 2020 5:44 PM
Reply to  Delta Gee

For anyone who hasn’t seen examples of the video evidence, this You Tube video is worth watching. This was a link provided on today’s Swiss Propaganda Research Covid19 report.

Refraktor
Refraktor
Apr 4, 2020 1:09 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Incredible thanks for posting.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 3, 2020 3:12 PM

Vivian J
Vivian J
Apr 5, 2020 1:51 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

An extremely important video, thanks for posting.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 3, 2020 2:53 PM

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 3, 2020 2:15 PM

In Germany, it seems resistance has started appearing in the mass media. I’ve translated most of the article, not because it contains shocking new information, but because it is clearly slanted against the political intention to keep the lockdown going (emphases in the original):

“Focus Online
Friday, 03.04.2020, 06:08

In the debate on an early end to social-distancing measures in the Corona crisis, Karl Lauterbach [the SPD’s health expert] said to the “Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger” he thought it “wrong and confusing” to be considering easing the restrictions so soon. “It would be a dangerous trivialisation of the situation”, said the politician and doctor.

“If we were to ease the social-distancing measures too soon and the virus were again to spread rapidly, we would end up worse off than we are now.” Instead, we have to stick to these measures “until we’ve reduced the number of new infections to an absolute minimum and and are able to keep them there.”

He then set out his reasoning. Lengthy intubation generally leads, in his view, to severe damage to one’s health. “Brain functioning is most often seriously impaired, not only in older people, and dementia occurs far sooner.

The health expert also spoke to the “Passauer Neue Presse”, explaining that people must understand Covid-19 is not only fatal in some cases. Many of those who survive will suffer considerable handicaps.

He further claimed that even young patients could suffer lasting lung damage, and with it serious restrictions to their quality of life. “This sort of lasting damage is not the exception, it happens frequently. Many old people who survive this disease will end up in permanent care. Musculature and brain function are both diminished.”

Neurobiologist Pöppel: “Lauterbach doesn’t have a clue about brain research”

“That’s nonsense”, says neurobiologist Ernst Pöppel, outraged. “Herr Lauterbach obviously has no clue about brain research.” Pöppel adds that there is no scientific data at all on lasting damage to the brain. Even if it were the case that lengthy intubation could negatively impact a person’s health, at the moment there is nothing concrete that can be said about the consequences of a Covid-19 illness.

Currently, the probability that brain function is impaired is the same as it remaining unaffected or improving – we just don’t have the data”, explained the neurobiologist. 

Issuing such statements in public, states Pöppel, is monstrous. “It’s fear and panic mongering from Lauterbach, pure and simple,” adding that this is unacceptable behaviour from a politician. “He should know better”, Pöppel continues, especially considering that Lauterbach himself has a medical background. “Any politician behaving in such a manner should resign their office.”

Do not confuse science for politics

Pöppel sees the SPD politician’s rash announcements as an attempt to bolster his political position that the lockdown should be kept in place, strengthened. “But we must not conflate science with politics,” Pöppel stresses. “And science must not be exploited to advance political positions. That must never be allowed to happen.”

Ernst Pöppel is a neurobiologist and medical psychologist at the Ludwig-Maximillian University, Munich. From 1991 to 1992, he headed the German Society for Medical Psychology. He was awarded the silver Bayerischen Verfassungsmedaille (Bavarian Constitution Medal) in 2005. In 2015, he was appointed to the Academia Europaea, the European non-governmental scientific society.”

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Apr 3, 2020 2:31 PM
Reply to  Toby Russell

Toby Russell.

I would merely change two words from above

” Lengthy Isolation generally leads, in My view, to severe damage to one’s health. “Brain functioning is most often seriously impaired, not only in older people, and dementia occurs far sooner.”

Tony

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 3, 2020 2:41 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

It’s not a direct quote though, Tony. In the original article, this passage uses a tense not present in English called Konjunktiv 1. It’s used primarily in journalism and means the words written are a claim by or the opinion of whoever spoke them, rather than a fact. A handy grammatical tool, in my view. 😉

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Apr 3, 2020 2:56 PM
Reply to  Toby Russell

Toby,

The point I was trying to make is that the cure is far worse than the disease. Solitary confinement is often referred to as torture, especially when it is imposed against one’s wishes, without any previous experience of it.

It’s very important to get out in the sunshine, and get some exercise, like digging the garden to grow some vegetables, which is what I am about to do. If I see a neighbour over the fence, we might even have a discussion.

Tony

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 3, 2020 2:59 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

I couldn’t agree more. But it would nevertheless be an incorrect translation of the article that way.

Enjoy the sun!

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 9:14 AM
Reply to  Toby Russell

Time will tell. Reports from Hong Kong say that recovered patients sometimes have suffered loss of pulmonary function, which is only to be expected. And patients who undergo intubation are thereafter often not neurologically what they were before. The same is true of surgical operations, particularly if protracted, and heart-lung by-pass is very nassty, which is why they have worked, in recent times, on still beating hearts, and using arterial grafts, rather than venous.

Jane
Jane
Apr 3, 2020 1:30 PM

On 21 March RT Francais led with an article about fears of 100,000 people dying in elderly care homes. I found an article from the Figaro of 21/01/2014 lamenting the deaths of 90,000 people in elderly care homes every year, which works out at 250 a day. RT don’t seem to know about that; they certainly didn’t mention it. So assuming RT is correct, and their worst-case scenario comes true, it means we have to shut down the whole country for the sake of ten thousand extra deaths among old people who, by RT’s own admission, have an average age of 85 and six chronic illnesses?

Jane
Jane
Apr 3, 2020 2:02 PM
Reply to  Jane

It wasn’t six chronic illnesses but eight!

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 3, 2020 3:36 PM
Reply to  Jane

It is RT France and not RT Français.

You seem to have an eugenicist attitude towards the elderly. That’s a very slippery slope.

Jane
Jane
Apr 3, 2020 5:18 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

You didn’t understand the point I was making. 90,000 people die every year in these places and nobody says a word.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 3, 2020 5:25 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Since the lockdown measures will lead to far greater suffering and death than covid-19, particularly amongst the less well-off., it is those who support those measures, who are, in effect the eugenicists.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 3, 2020 5:31 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Prove it.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Apr 3, 2020 7:18 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

You are questioning the fact that 6.6 million people newly unemployed in the US alone will cause a humanitarian catastrophe beyond the impact of a relatively mild virus that causes minor flu symptoms in the vast majority of people who become infected?

You clearly live a very sheltered life.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 3, 2020 9:22 PM
Reply to  Admin1

Time will tell, and no, I do not usually live a sheltered life, but now I am confined as I do not want to get the virus. My husband, who is in a nursing home specialized for Alzheimer’s, now has it and is dying, even though he was in excellent physical health, so stuff it.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Apr 4, 2020 5:34 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Well said Vierotchka, and my thoughts are with you at this very difficult time.
I came to the conclusion quite a long time ago that political idealogues of both right and left are in fact callous sociopathic bastards. Some will get a perverted erection from hurting others.
Don’t let them hurt you more. Some nasty piece of excrement here may even say you are an establishment shill spreading fake news. Ignore the *unts.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Apr 4, 2020 5:39 AM
Reply to  Vierotchka

I heard a few weeks ago that very high dose vitamin C given intravenously can rescue people from this, will try and find the link, think it was 12 grams two or three times a day. Apparently China is recommending it officially. Tell them to try it. Best wishes and good luck.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 9:17 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Anti-oxidants, as the virus seems to invade and destroy red-blood cells, releasing iron free radicals, that do the damage, particularly down among the alveoli. Two routes to hypoxia. [source requested -ed]

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Apr 7, 2020 10:40 AM

Since we’re in the realm of medicine, and particularly as these are sensitive times for alt. media, you won’t mind if I request a source for this assertion about the virus invading red-blood cells? Admin2

Vivian J
Vivian J
Apr 5, 2020 2:00 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

Why did you post the above video about the current testing procedures with Prof Kaufman (basically explaining that the tests are bogus and that the virus itself may not exist) and yet also completely buy into the whole ‘very scary and dange and highly contagious virus’ mindset? Completely nuts…

Vivian J
Vivian J
Apr 5, 2020 2:02 PM
Reply to  Vivian J

For dange read dangerous

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Apr 3, 2020 1:26 PM

The Coronavirus Act 2020 is our version of the Enabling Act 1933. Fascism has been sold again as the solution to a population first whipped into a panic by hysterical fear-mongering. https://viewsandstories.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-fascism.html

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2020 12:46 PM

Interesting twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/elleprovocateur/status/1245780895073816576

“stress-system overload can significantly diminish a child’s ability to learn and engage in typical social interactions across the lifespan.”

i.e. the cultivation of a new serf class to recall the superstitious peasants of the Middle Ages.

MrChops
MrChops
Apr 3, 2020 11:22 AM

What is Covid-19 and if you don’t know what it is how can you test for it?

Tish Farrell
Tish Farrell
Apr 3, 2020 1:15 PM
Reply to  MrChops

Very clear explanations of how so much has been misjudged including poor quality of tests

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Apr 3, 2020 1:47 PM
Reply to  MrChops

What’s the take from this video?

Tish Farrell
Tish Farrell
Apr 3, 2020 3:18 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

If anyone starts offering me a vaccine for this ‘virus’ I’d decline.

MrChops
MrChops
Apr 3, 2020 3:31 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

It’s a very deep rabbit hole to go down………………..but it opens up the idea that you can’t catch a virus – it is a secretion of the bodies cells against toxins which may include RF radiation (5g). You asked.

Quinn
Quinn
Apr 3, 2020 4:51 PM
Reply to  MrChops

This is bullshit

Mr Chops
Mr Chops
Apr 3, 2020 6:52 PM
Reply to  Quinn

That’s as maybe – and your offering of science to the discussion is precisely………..

Germs Bond
Germs Bond
Apr 3, 2020 9:00 PM
Reply to  Quinn

Agreed not least because YouTube send me a message recommending this video which is the reason I’d already seen it.

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 3, 2020 9:39 PM
Reply to  Germs Bond

YouTube doesn’t send people messages recommending videos, doofus!

Germs Bond
Germs Bond
Apr 4, 2020 12:53 PM
Reply to  Vierotchka

It sent me one ducky!

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 4, 2020 1:05 PM
Reply to  Germs Bond

Pants on fire.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Apr 4, 2020 5:46 AM
Reply to  Quinn

Dangerous bullshit too, by some arsehole who thinks he’s smarter than the collective knowledge of all the people around the world who study viruses.

MrChops
MrChops
Apr 4, 2020 7:53 AM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

I see a tag team forming hahaha………….

Germs Bond
Germs Bond
Apr 4, 2020 1:08 PM
Reply to  Frank Speaker

Frank his IQ test led to interrogation by the authorities. We should trust this man.

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 4, 2020 8:54 AM
Reply to  Quinn

It’s a falsifiable theory I would like to see either confirmed or refuted, but “This is bullshit” isn’t enough. If you do have any information to back up your assertion, I would like to hear it.

Magggie
Magggie
Apr 3, 2020 12:17 PM
Reply to  VenomBag

Venombag, What is the purpose of posting these links here, unless they are translated?

Yarkob
Yarkob
Apr 3, 2020 12:25 PM
Reply to  Magggie

there is an english translation button, Maggie. i imagine VenomBag expects us to make use of it with their very informative links

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Apr 3, 2020 1:32 PM
Reply to  Magggie

Maggie,

I don’t know how to do this on a mobile phone, but I imagine it is much the same as on a PC. Google translate works reasonably well, but you first have to open a window – search for Google translate and then copy and paste the text into the Google Detect Language box.

You can also add an extension to eg Firefox, which makes the process easier and quicker. There are similar extensions to other browsers.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/to-google-translate/?src=featured

I’ve just tested this and it works, though there is a limit on the amount of text it will translate in one go.

Tony

Vierotchka
Vierotchka
Apr 3, 2020 3:37 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Copying the url suffices.

VenomBag
VenomBag
Apr 3, 2020 10:41 AM
VenomBag
VenomBag
Apr 3, 2020 10:36 AM
VenomBag
VenomBag
Apr 3, 2020 10:35 AM
Mark L
Mark L
Apr 3, 2020 9:48 AM

Comrades

Perhaps we/you could address this point that does seem to carry weight with many:

Some on the left use the cui bono argument in relation to C19: it must be a real threat because the damage done to the capitalist system – in terms of public loss of confidence/belief in it as much as anything else – far outweighs any benefits gained by the PTB.

They don’t appear convinced that hiding another financial crash and gaining unlimited coercive powers is benefit enough.

Thoughts?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2020 10:27 AM
Reply to  Mark L

There does seem to be a fundamental rift between the Left and, for lack of a better word, what I will call the skeptics. Both sides view it as a real virus and both realise that the ruling class will, as always, use it to further their own aims. But the Left “buy into” the mainstream media’s insistence that this is a deadly new strain and is therefore a real problem for everyone. And they see it as a threat to the capitalist system. Which of course gets them all excited. Cf. this from Jonathan Cook:

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2020-03-24/coronavirus-terrified-us/

Our leaders are terrified. Not of the virus – of us

You can sense the ripples of excitement there, the relish of impending triumph.

The skeptic case is far more unsettling. This case is that the virus is a seasonal flu variant which has been seized on with an astonishing air of relentless hyperbole to serve as a smoke screen behind which the ruling class can implement the most draconian “rewiring” of the entire socio-political structure since World War 2. For one thing it may spell the end of the welfare state.

This is a truly terrifying scenario since it means that finding a cure is not on the true agenda at all. This virus scenario can be played out as long as they want since they have effectively “morbidized” the flu and turned it into an almost supernatural spectre (with the appropriate scientific jargon – which may be no more than the regular flu diagnosis given hysterical proportions). This little scenario can be pushed for as long as anyone coughs or has a temperature. Or for as long as the population accept it – which may not matter since, by the time they realise what’s happening, the trappings of a police state will be well established.

The Left have always emphasised that this scenario doesn’t make sense since it would – supposedly – wreck the capitalist system itself. But I have suggested here that this virus manoeuvre (virus as smoke screen) could be in the nature of a last resort. It will certainly damage capitalism but the ruling class are aware that there is a huge crash on the way anyway. And they are prepared to sacrifice small and medium businesses to save the whole system.

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 3, 2020 11:00 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Yes, it’s not capitalism per se that the ruling classes require, it’s that they remain the ruling classes.

Invisible Man
Invisible Man
Apr 3, 2020 5:13 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Jonathan Cook, and many others on the left, are engaged in a logical fallacy, in my opinion. They want to see capitalism as we know it brought to its knees, the ostensible pandemic is doing precisely that, therefore they assume it must be real. They’re evaluating its reality based on what they want to see ultimately happen (i.e. oligarchs and plutocrats toppled) instead of dispassionately weighing the evidence.

Ironically, many people on the alt right do the same. They’re hyping this alleged pandemic to the skies because it confirms their pre-existing biases. They see to as confirmation that too much immigration is terrible (immigrants as disease vectors) and are busy peddling the “it’s all the Chinese’s fault” narrative. They see Covid19 ushering in a future of curtailed immigration, stopped illegal immigration, and a return to fierce nationalism and strong borders.

Because both leftists and rightists have a certain endgame they want to achieve, and they both see corona as bringing about a radical shift in consciousness, they can’t seem to separate any of that from what the facts actually are. There simply is no credible case to be made that we’re in the grip of a real pandemic. The 22 dissenting experts who challenge the mainstream panic narrative are simply ignored as irrelevant. The are given a platform nowhere in the MSM to air their POV.

And then there’s this:

https://theinfectiousmyth.com/book/CoronavirusPanic.pdf

People all over the political spectrum need to realize they might well be correct about the likely long term consequences Of the pandemic panic…. yet none of that proves that the pandemic (the deadly new strain) itself is real! It’s the belief that is upending everything and throwing the world into chaos – but none of that proves the belief is grounded in solid fact.

Invisible Man
Invisible Man
Apr 3, 2020 5:37 PM
Reply to  Invisible Man

“The Left have always emphasised that this scenario doesn’t make sense since it would – supposedly – wreck the capitalist system itself. But I have suggested here that this virus manoeuvre (virus as smoke screen) could be in the nature of a last resort. It will certainly damage capitalism but the ruling class are aware that there is a huge crash on the way anyway. And they are prepared to sacrifice small and medium businesses to save the whole system.”

Yes, and there’s another fallacy implicit here. It’s the assumption that the elite is all one monolith. Many billionaires may indeed be mortified by the lockdown and the economic crash, they may indeed be opposed to these measures, but Big Pharma clearly benefits from a world of universal mandatory vaccination. The MSM benefits from everyone being glued to their TV sets (not to mention most of their ad revenue is from the pharmaceutical industry). Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation see their mission as the promotion of ubiquitous vaccination and the chipping of the whole human race as medium of stabilization and control. WHO sees itself as deserving of being the overseer of all medical protocols and procedures for the entire human race. Their ideal is a world without any more individual physicians’ judgment, but all medical decisions are made in a top down manner according to what WHO declares to be true and false. Governments always use crises – real or manufactured – to seize greater powers for themselves, which they then do not relinquish when the crisis is over.

And so on. What leftists fail to see is that there is not one hive minded elite. I’m sure many billionaires are horrified to see the world economy melt down. But clearly there are other members and sections of the elite that stand to see their power enormously increased in the wake of a pandemic. They crave massive power and control, not money per se.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2020 7:47 PM
Reply to  Invisible Man

Good points but I’m not sure about this one:

The MSM benefits from everyone being glued to their TV sets

I would have thought that the 24/7 doom show would really start pissing people off so that they just don’t bother tuning in. Admittedly I never bothered with the MSM news much anyway. But right now is the first time I’ve gone out of my way to avoid it. Now I only watch TV when I’ve got a DVD on.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 9:23 AM
Reply to  Invisible Man

Don’t forget the tribal and religious divisions among the ruling elites.

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
Apr 3, 2020 6:42 PM
Reply to  Invisible Man

Indeed. The link explains in written form much of what the link to Dr. Andrew Kaufman above describes orally ( Mr. Chops – “A Breakdown of Current Testing Procedures”).

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 9:21 AM
Reply to  George Mc

That’s for sure. With NO future left, the ‘useless eaters’ simply become a threat, so the next novel virus will be more ‘effective’. This was probably a trial run, or a happy accident for the ‘Gods Upon the Earth’.

Frank Speaker
Frank Speaker
Apr 4, 2020 5:50 AM
Reply to  Mark L

Thoughts?

Yes, I’m not your comrade.

elsewhere
elsewhere
Apr 3, 2020 9:37 AM

Just found a lucid analysis at Oriental Review (via Zero Hedge):

https://orientalreview.org/2020/03/31/putin-and-trump-vs-the-new-world-order-the-final-battle/

A quote: “We’re about to learn that European countries fear that China or Russia finds the truth in the Lombardy region, where people are not dying from some corona bug, but probably from a deadly cocktail hybrid from two earlier vaccines for meningitis and influenza, that they were injected in separate vaccination campaigns.”

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 3, 2020 8:31 AM

Craig Murray makes some good points, namely that a flu pandemic has been predicted for years, it was widely foreseen, yet there was no provision made for it.

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 3, 2020 8:47 AM
Reply to  lundiel

Just found this on Information Clearing House:

What is abundantly evident is that the US, Britain and other Western states are not prepared to deal with the present crisis because of their rundown public health services. That structural problem is a matter of government neglect over many years to ensure that their citizens are adequately protected in a time of crisis. And that neglect stems from
deliberate policy choices, such as showering the rich with tax breaks and squandering trillions on militarism, while relentlessly cutting funds for public services.

I think this is the message we should be concentrating on. Rather than trying to communicate facts that most people don’t wish to know. It would be pertinent to remind them that the NHS always works at 100% every winter and is almost overcome every year. Yet, as Craig says:

It is incredible to me that the UK is willing to throw away some £220 billion and rising on Trident against a war scenario nobody can sensibly define, but was not willing to spend a few million on holding stock of protective clothing for the NHS against the much more likely contingency of a pandemic. What does that say about our society?

I would go further. Why ever did we pay for two aircraft carriers that are essentially just another battlegroup for the US navy, along with our nuclear submarine fleet?

Grafter
Grafter
Apr 3, 2020 9:36 AM
Reply to  lundiel

With respect to Craig Murray’s article I find nothing “incredible” that we spend £220 billion on the lunacy of Trident. There’s money to be made for the few from these and similar abominations who have infiltrated the mindset of politicians ever since WW2 with an agenda of the fear of “them”. Slavishly we have followed American paranoia on this misguided path and continue to do so. The majority of the population now have a mindless acceptance of this situation in the belief that by spending these astronomical amounts of money on this madness they will be “safe”. Yet again we begin to see another form of this phenomenon of fear and acceptance with a virus whose manipulated death count has the power to confine us indoors with the same mantra of keeping us. “safe”. Politicians and those who control them have ensured that we can be coerced into whatever path the elite few wish us to take whilst we continue to live under an illusion of democracy.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 3, 2020 10:18 AM
Reply to  Grafter

Absolutely Grafter.

The insidious aspect though, as you’re probably aware, is that –

… to confine us indoors with the same mantra of keeping us “safe”.

the bastards tell us we should stay inside to keep OTHERS safe. Far nastier, emotional blackmail under false pretences !

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Apr 3, 2020 11:22 PM
Reply to  Grafter

“With respect to Craig Murray’s article I find nothing “incredible” that we spend £220 billion on the lunacy of Trident. There’s money to be made for the few…”

*This.*

… – whilst the warheads are british, the D5 missile is wholly *made in the USA* (as has been the case since the polaris days), courtesy of – guess who?… – yep! lockheed martin, – the same assholes responsible for foisting the *incredible* f-turdy five practical joke on US-allied taxpayers, *everywhere*.

– incidently, this was wikiganda’s front-page ‘featured article’ the other day, and gives the historical background on the above arrangement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_US%E2%80%93UK_Mutual_Defence_Agreement

Antonym
Antonym
Apr 3, 2020 10:08 AM
Reply to  lundiel

That Trident is also to justify keeping the UK as a permanent member of the UN Security council. That position is totally dubious compared to India, Japan, Germany or Brazil for normal people, but not for the Five Ayes.

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Apr 3, 2020 11:37 AM
Reply to  lundiel

We think the most important facts are often the ones people may not wish to hear. Sooner or later, when the full impact of the authoritarian ‘response’ to covid19 begins to hit them, people will begin looking for the truth beyond the propaganda.

In fact this is already happening. People who were chastising us for refusing to endorse the hysteria just a week ago are now agreeing with us and supporting our stance. We are being inundated with messages of encouragement, and have gained thousands of new social media followers in a matter of days.

Because, however it might be presented to us in the media, ‘fundamentally people are suckers for the truth’.

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 3, 2020 12:18 PM
Reply to  Admin1

I don’t use social media, but that’s great to hear.

Toby Russell
Toby Russell
Apr 3, 2020 2:02 PM
Reply to  Admin1

That’s wonderful news! You guys really do deserve the support and encouragement.

Yarkob
Yarkob
Apr 3, 2020 2:16 PM
Reply to  Admin1

and at that very moment in time Twitter starts to censor your posts.

Coincidence, much?

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2020 3:43 PM
Reply to  Admin1

People who were chastising us for refusing to endorse the hysteria just a week ago are now agreeing with us and supporting our stance.

Glad to hear it. One encouraging matter is that, with plenty of time on their hands and no job to take up their energies, people who don’t usually think much are starting to wonder and ask questions. And the fear porn must reach saturation point. People start to switch off. That is one of my dream scenarios: that the MSM start to notice that less and less are watching their putrid little penny dreadful.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 3, 2020 7:44 AM

Raising the question: How does the current state of ICUs compare with these other recent crises? To which, we must remember, no one ever suggested the solution was destroying the economy and instituting a police state.

Well precisely. And that was the big giveaway from the start. I knew something was wrong the moment it al began and I didn’t even have to know the statistic. Quite often the way an article is reported tells you everything. And in this case, I felt that instead of being given a report, we were being told what “the program” was i.e. what they were intending to do. And yet even I couldn’t find the right way of expressing myself and ended up being denounced as a “conspiracy nut” by friends. I should have said, “Just listen to the way you are being told. Listen to the tone, the whole orientation of the reporting. It just doesn’t sound right at all. If this were a genuine pandemic, they would not be announcing it in the way they are.”

And the odd presentation continues. Last night I caught a bit if the news. (I usually avoid it like – pardon the expression – the plague) But apart from the announcement that the virus was wreaking as much damage as expected (surprise surprise), we were being told about brave souls who had given their lives. I have no doubt that there are brave souls etc. But the way it was being reported seemed unduly maudlin. Indeed, it sounded like war propaganda.

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 3, 2020 7:56 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Yes, gasp……..a 108-year-old woman died, one of our war heroes cruelly taken from us in the prime of her life.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Apr 3, 2020 7:01 AM

There is no truth in the media, because if there were, they would be printing: ‘your Government has just taken $60,000 from each and every one of you, mostly poor and humble, and given it pretty much lock stock and barrel to corporations so swilling in wealth and cash as to make it the biggest case of reverse Robin Hood in history. And what is more, lawmakers were too cowardly to vote it through because they knew you would kick them all out if they did.’

You can say the same in the UK, using slightly different figures.

A pathological media which lies for a living has been here since 9/11 in virulent form. It always existed to a certain extent, since the whole perceived role of media according to ruling elites is simply to befuddle the population through constant misinformation.

From now on, it should be assumed that absolutely every single story in the UK and US media is made up lying until proven otherwise. Media Studies courses should be rebranded as ‘Lessons in Lying’. And any journalist claiming they are fit to chair any debate about any subject of significance should be run out of town by a rampaging mob.

They could of course simply resign and face economic armagaddon like the millions they have been exhorting to jump off cliffs the past two months.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 3, 2020 1:44 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

The Flu-Coup of 2020!

Butties
Butties
Apr 3, 2020 2:26 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

But Rhys, this another WMD situation shurely (sic) Lies, Lies, Wuhan Mass Death. Current directives are not working. You must now queue 2.0m apart standing on one leg. In years to come some tot will ask his ma at the checkout queue why everyone is standing on one leg.

Alien Observer
Alien Observer
Apr 4, 2020 1:28 PM
Reply to  Butties

Wuhan Mass Death

No, that’s not lies, except the official numbers of dead only count those who died in hospital. The actual number is the region of 3 times higher according to an undercover Chinese investigator who spoke with many funeral homes / morgues.

Butties
Butties
Apr 4, 2020 2:06 PM
Reply to  Alien Observer

Well see Brookings study for Chinese deaths stats where are your undercover stats?

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 5, 2020 12:28 AM
Reply to  Alien Observer

Sinophobic propaganda lies. ‘..undercover Chinese investigator..’ my arse.

Willem
Willem
Apr 3, 2020 6:38 AM

C/ every flu season there is a crisis at ICs
Difference with Covid19 is the naming of the disease.

But there still is a crisis, like every year when flu like diseases are spread through the air

The difference with flu, is that for covid19 ‘they’ made a VERY big point out of it.

They exaggerated the crisis and that is only worsening the health of the state.

Which reminds me of (I think it was Woodrow Wilson who longed for war to cure the economy in pre wwI USA) that ‘War is the health of the State’

That is what we are witnessing today

Willem
Willem
Apr 3, 2020 6:42 AM
Reply to  Willem

Slightly mistaken. Here is Howard Zinn on war and the health of the state

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnwarhea14.html

fred
fred
Apr 3, 2020 10:51 AM
Reply to  Willem

Vitamin D May Cut Risk of Flu
“Study Shows Vitamin D May Help Prevent Respiratory Tract Infections
Vitamin D may reduce the incidence and severity of influenza and other infections of the upper respiratory tract, new research indicates.
Simple steps such as eating foods rich with vitamin D and getting more sunshine may help to reduce your chances of contracting flu and other similar illnesses, shows a study by scientists at Yale University School of Medicine and Greenwich Hospital in Connecticut.”

Government: “Everybody stay inside, out of the sun!”

fred
fred
Apr 3, 2020 10:55 AM
Reply to  fred

How does a ‘carriage return’ create more empty space than an ’empty line’? Comment software is wonky.

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 3, 2020 11:31 AM
Reply to  fred

Yet another university study confirms what our grandparents already knew. 🙂

They ‘reintroduced’ rickets to the UK, by telling people to stay out of the sun. And use sunscreen when they did venture out. Nasty stuff. Nasty people.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 3, 2020 1:02 PM
Reply to  JohnB

Quite. The advice to stay out of the sun is one of many pieces of government/orthodox medical advice that I’ve ignored over 3 or 4 decades. And as you say, sunscreen is nasty stuff. When you’ve had enough sun, cover up.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 3, 2020 12:57 PM
Reply to  Willem

Although I am a sceptic, isn’t the timing a bit different? Surely end of March should normally indicate the end of the usual “flu season”. With the numbers reducing, not increasing, during March.

So something different is happening here. I think it’s too early to know the truth, but I hope we find out the truth eventually.

Meanwhile, I am sure this has been posted already, but for those who haven’t seen it:

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/01/covid-its-not-one-thing-its-not-one-disease

and

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/02/jon-rappoport-major-announcement-to-my-readers

(The latter is a link to a link to 3 podcasts. I found it better to download them rather than attempt to listen online (which just timed out for me)).

Kim
Kim
Apr 3, 2020 1:23 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

I’ve spent the past week reading Jon Rappoports blog (no more fake news) He makes a great deal of sense. People should also check out Amazing Polly on You Tube. Watched one of her videos last night on “not so trusted voices”. Excellent.

Dennis Brown
Dennis Brown
Apr 3, 2020 6:35 AM

If indeed their best, and most apparently innocuous, argument for this attack on our rights as citizens is to prevent the Health Care system from being overwhelmed until the curve flattens, why have these same politicians been so ardent in slashing health care budgets for the past 40 years? Methinks there is far more that that involved here!

Sgt Oddball
Sgt Oddball
Apr 3, 2020 11:34 PM
Reply to  Dennis Brown

indeed, dennis. – and to the point of the article, re: ‘overburdened’ healthcare systems: – remember when they *repealed* ‘austerity’, after the last financial crisis?…

… – *oh, wait*!…

Sam
Sam
Apr 3, 2020 5:46 AM

According to the WHO, upper respiratory diseases (flu, pneumonia, et al) are the third leading cause of death in the world – EVERY YEAR.

Rise
Rise
Apr 3, 2020 7:08 AM
Reply to  Sam

For the Elites, this is a reputation problem that can be solved by throwing more money into public relations firms (usually owned by their rich friends).

fred
fred
Apr 3, 2020 10:43 AM
Reply to  Sam

The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don’t want you to know about
“A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.”

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 3, 2020 1:22 PM
Reply to  fred

There is even an adjective that describes this: iatrogenic.

There are some nice quotes (among much other good stuff) at http://www.doctoryourself.com

e.g.

“One grandmother is worth two M.D.s.
Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.”

“Of several remedies, the physician should choose the least sensational.
Hippocrates”

“Health is the fastest growing failing business in western civilization.
Emanuel Cheraskin, M.D., D.M.D. in Human Health and Homeostasis”

“When in doubt, try nutrition first.
Roger Williams, PhD in Nutrition Against Disease”

“Disease is the censor pointing out the humans, animals and plants who are imperfectly nourished.
Wrench, G. T. The Wheel of Health, 1941. London: Daniel, p 130.”

“Medicine doesn’t get to the root of the trouble. It only conceals it. The result is a more highly poisoned condition which may become chronic disease. All drugs are harmful to the system. They are contrary to nature. . . . Mark my words. There is no way to health except the natural way.
“M,” to James Bond 007, in Ian Fleming’s Thunderball.”

“The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.
Voltaire”

“he test to which all methods of treatment are finally brought is whether they are lucrative to doctors or not.
George Bernard Shaw”

“Doctors are the same as lawyers; the only difference is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you too.
Anton Chekhov, who was himself a practicing physician”

“Some physicians would stand by and see their patients die rather than use ascorbic acid because in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin. Vitamin C should be given to the patient while the doctors ponder the diagnosis.
Frederick R. Klenner, M.D.”

“The best doctor gives the least medicines.
Benjamin Franklin”

“Doctors give drugs of which they know little,
into bodies, of which they know less,
for diseases of which they know nothing at all.
Voltaire”

“The germ is nothing; the terrain is everything.
Louis Pasteur” [towards the end of his life].

“The physician should not treat the disease but the patient who is suffering from it.
Maimonides”

“One-quarter of what you eat keeps you alive.
The other three-quarters keeps your doctor alive.
(Hieroglyph found in an ancient Egyptian tomb.)”

“Let food be thy medicine, and let thy medicine be food.
Hippocrates”

“Vitamin C can truthfully be designated as the antitoxic and antiviral vitamin.
Claus W. Jungeblut, M.D.”

“Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a better world.
Linus Pauling, in How to Live Longer and Feel Better, p. 274”

“The specific disease doctrine is the grand refuge of weak, uncultured, unstable minds such as now rule in the medical profession.
Florence Nightingale”

“Conspiracy nut, leftist, madman. These are terms of dismissal so you don’t have to listen to the argument. It would be healthier and more fun to hear what someone has to say.
Oliver Stone”

“Be careful in reading health books. You may die of a misprint.
Mark Twain”

“Dios es el que sana, y el médico lleva la plata—Though God cures the patient, the doctor pockets the fee.” – Spanish proverb. Also attributed to Benjamin Franklin, as “nature cures the patient…”.

fred
fred
Apr 3, 2020 10:46 AM
Reply to  Sam

Death By Prescription
“By one estimate, taking prescribed medications is the fourth leading cause of death among Americans.”

Bruce Tonka
Bruce Tonka
Apr 3, 2020 4:37 AM

I think it’s abundantly self evident that Corona is a crock. Scapegoat for planned financial implosion. The real question is do they plan to release a “real” virus. The so called second wave.

Rise
Rise
Apr 3, 2020 7:22 AM
Reply to  Bruce Tonka

If this virus was not planned, almost certainly, something very big was about to happen.

The US Empire is both ideologically and financially bankrupt, living off using One: Treaties, Two: Threats (which lately became unhinged), and Three: Wars.

Add to this, the state of (more than) economic war that the US keenly started to stop the Rise of China. I don’t think, it is an underestimate to say, the US Exceptionals view China as an ‘existential threat’.

paul
paul
Apr 3, 2020 3:12 PM
Reply to  Rise

Their current budget deficit is $1,850 billion.
They borrow about 35 cents of every dollar they spend.

paul
paul
Apr 6, 2020 9:35 PM
Reply to  paul

The budget deficit has suddenly ballooned to $2,045 billion.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 7, 2020 9:37 AM
Reply to  Rise

China is a religious threat. God himself ordained US led, Western, Judeo-Christian Civilization MUST rule the Earth, forever. As you can discern from the psychopathic fury of the Right’s lies re. this Fort Detrick virus, they are simply slavering for a casus belli. At least five years ago one US think-tank proclaimed that the US had ten years to bring China down, or it would be too technologically and militarily advanced to do so.

beth
beth
Apr 3, 2020 4:36 AM

I would like you to define all the (bugs)that make us ill. I am seeing different defns on various websites.
Thanks.

Rise
Rise
Apr 3, 2020 8:17 AM
Reply to  beth

margaret thatcher, tony blair, john howard, obama, reagan, the judge in Assange case, police bias, neoliberalism, religion and more and loop electronic music

Gregg McKenzie
Gregg McKenzie
Apr 3, 2020 8:23 AM
Reply to  beth

There are only three types of pathogen, fungi, bacteria and viruses. There are only three disease vectors, blood borne, air borne and faecal-oral. Our bodies are 90% living bacterial cells. Antibiotics NEVER work against viruses as they are not alive, as are bacteria and fungi. Viruses have no respiratory system and do not produce their own RNA for reproduction.

Overall, the germ theory is wrong! Both Robert Koch and Louis Pasteur came from an era driven by reputation and profit, and the ethic to not cut corners and falsify parts of their work took a back seat. Koch, who discovered the first bacterium ‘anthrax’, himself never met the four ‘Koch Postulates’ in his own experiments. And Pasteur, who gave us virology and vaccination kept tandem notebooks with his real research, as exposed in 1971.

Otto von Bismarck used ‘fear of contagion’ to malign the British, who had bankrupted Egypt and made their way through the Suez canal, saying the British carried anthrax and pestilence from the sub-continent. It was a ruse that both Koch and Pasteur were pritibaly involved in.

The germ theory is WRONG, but over the years it has sold an awful lot of soap with morning TV

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Apr 3, 2020 3:55 AM

We all know the four biggest businesses on the planet (apart from food) are weapons, oil, drugs (prescription and illegal) and financial ‘services’.
As the vortex of panic grows deeper and faster it’s obvious that these corporate cartels will come out almost unscathed.
https://dissidentvoice.org/2020/04/war-profiteering-in-the-time-of-corona/#more-102872
Funny how that works, isn’t it?

JohnB
JohnB
Apr 3, 2020 10:22 AM
Reply to  Fair dinkum

I was told recently that ‘data’ is now a top four – not sure how true this is.

NowhereOH
NowhereOH
Apr 3, 2020 12:10 PM
Reply to  JohnB

Unfortunately, that is truer every day, JohnB. While much of what is being bandied about regarding the capabilities of AI is either grossly exaggerated, so proprietary as to preclude authentication, or both (geeze, what isn’t these days), data itself is quickly becoming a type of currency. Part of it is the hype around ‘predictive analytics’ (at least from the short term money-making perspective), but the long-term players know that the low cost of data storage means they can keep almost everything they collect, whether it has value at the present moment or not. When it comes to propaganda, marketing, and overall fear-based control, it’s ideal.
There are people out there endorsing the notion that ‘data is the new DNA’– as if we are all merely a collection of actions and information. It’s just as reductive as purely medical definitions of identity, if not more so.
… *deep breath* Sorry, I work in a technology field I got into before many of these agendas became as strong/transparent as they are today, so I sometimes have strong opinions because I feel like I live in the belly of the beast.

Croach
Croach
Apr 3, 2020 3:25 AM

My cousin died in 2018 with flu induced pneumonia (he had undiagnosed liver disease).
He was only 43.

Anyone taking the flu lightly is an ignorant moron.
I’d advise anyone who is confronted with the ‘not just the flu’ brigade tells them as much.

Bruce Tonka
Bruce Tonka
Apr 3, 2020 4:38 AM
Reply to  Croach

What is your point?

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 3, 2020 11:12 AM
Reply to  Bruce Tonka

Read the last sentence of his comment.

Jane
Jane
Apr 3, 2020 4:24 PM
Reply to  Bruce Tonka

I think Croach’s point is that since flu can also be a dangerous disease, which can also kill young people, then why are they making so much fuss about coronavirus and why are they saying “it is not just flu” as though flu were trifling and relatively benign?

lundiel
lundiel
Apr 3, 2020 8:02 AM
Reply to  Croach

Interesting. Was the flu recorded as the cause of death?

Guy
Guy
Apr 3, 2020 8:38 AM
Reply to  lundiel

Influenza virus is a pathogen/virus, not a cause of death. It usually kills by causing excess fluid in the lungs, which is called pneumonia (but it can kill you other ways). So cause of death was pneumonia and agent was flu virus. Pneumonia can also be caused by bacteria or fungus.

Tom
Tom
Apr 3, 2020 11:08 AM
Reply to  Guy

I think lundiel’s point was that undiagnosed liver disease (also unspecificed: hepatitis? cirrhosis? cancer?) was somehow discovered (autopsy?) and thus, was wondering whether the liver disease was mentioned in the cause of death.

Croach
Croach
Apr 3, 2020 3:32 PM
Reply to  Tom

I’m afraid I don’t know (and don’t feel comfortable asking) whether the ultimate underlying cause was listed as the liver disease (cirrhosis) or the pneumonia.
There was a post-mortem and a coroner’s enquiry. The process took nearly four weeks and it was almost eight before the funeral.
The reasoning given for the delay in both was that both systems were overwhelmed processing deaths from the winter flu season.
He died early march.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Apr 3, 2020 10:05 AM
Reply to  Croach

If you can’t tell but I think the majority here thinks its much more than the flu.