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Coronavirus Fact-Check #3: “Covid19 is 20x DEADLIER than the flu!”

One of the buzz-stats doing the rounds says this novel virus is far more dangerous than influenza, does the science hold up?

Since the early days of the current pandemic, the go-to comparison has been influenza, both the specific historical outbreaks and the general seasonal “flus” (a catch-all term for respiratory viruses) which hit all over the world every winter.

That comparison is very often met with this simple retort:

Covid is nothing like the flu, it’s 20 times more dangerous!”

But is this true?

No, it’s not.

While the generally accepted flu death rate of 0.1% is twenty times lower than the media reported Covid19 death rate of between 2% and 4%, research suggests the media-reported death rate is far too high.

The World Health Organization has estimated Covid19’s “official” death rate at 3.4%, clinical studies done on Sars-Cov-2 put its actual case-fatality ratio at around 0.1%. Roughly equal that of regular season flu outbreaks.

The problem arises from what scientists and statisticians call “selection bias”:

the bias introduced by the selection of individuals, groups or data for analysis in such a way that proper randomization is not achieved, thereby ensuring that the sample obtained is not representative

Essentially, the way you choose your sample can have a huge impact on the results of your study.

In this case, since only the people sick enough to need treatment in hospitals or clinics are being tested, only those people with severe or critical symptoms will ever be counted in the statistics.

The WHO figure, for example, of 3.4% is based only on those patients who were treated in hospital.

But what about people who got sick but never reported it? Or who never had any symptoms so never knew they were infected?

Studies suggest that 50-80% of people infected with Sars-Cov-2 never experience any symptoms. Many others experience symptoms mild enough they never need medical treatment.

Accounting for these cases brings the death rate down by a factor of ten.

The countries that have done the broadest population studies – ie. testing random sections of the population who have no symptoms – are Germany, South Korea and Iceland.

They return death rates of 0.37% 0.6% and 0.4% respectively.

Dr John Ioannidis from Stanford University estimates a death rate between 0.025% and 0.65%. Another study, from Japan, found the death rate to be between 0.04 and 0.12.

These are both, potentially, markedly LOWER than seasonal flu.

In short: No, coronavirus is not “20x deadlier” than the flu. The science suggests it may be anything from very slightly worse, to noticeably better.

Statistics compiled with the assistance of Swiss Propaganda Research. Visit their site, they are the definitive resource for finding Coronavirus facts, figures and expert opinion.

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Mike Roberts
Mike Roberts
May 28, 2020 3:12 AM

The 0.1% flu fatality rate is based on estimates of influenza infection, which is not a number we know the accuracy of. So Covid-19 and flu can’t be compared directly. There are estimates of Covid-19 infection which are not confirmed through tests but they would also have very large error bars. How deadly Covid-19 is may not be known for years but looking at excess deaths would give a clue. It’s a shame that that basis hasn’t been used in this article.

John
John
Oct 30, 2020 4:15 AM
Reply to  Mike Roberts

CDC statistics on influenza are massively overstated. They combine all pneumonia deaths with influenza. However, when you look for what percentage of pneumonia cases also have influenza the number is 6%. It’s 9% for the human rhinovirus (common cold). So CDC mathematics takes the cause of 6% of pneumonia cases and says that all pneumonia deaths from any cause should be included in influenza numbers. Why? To sell vaccines. If there were only a few thousand deaths it’s hard to scare people into vaccinating.

Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson
Feb 21, 2021 7:52 AM
Reply to  Mike Roberts

If I was diagnosed with COV19 I would immediately wast blood tests and cultures made to identify EXACTLY what it I have contracted.
How would any laboratory identify COVID?

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 10:11 PM

Monday, April 13, 2020 I see significant updating on
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

The expanded overview at top of page would make a good summary to offer the fearful or desperate subject to their willingness to read it.
or worth reposting as a new OG article with full attribution.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 3:45 AM
Reply to  Binra

“The expanded overview at top of page would make a good summary to offer the fearful or desperate subject to their willingness to read it.”

When a purportedly ‘objective, evidence-based’ website references a committed, freeform opinionating, determined-contrarian website such as the Off-Guardian on it’s current perversely inverse reification of what it regards as an MSM (!) panic over COVID-19, I do believe that that can be correctly termed ‘recursion’.

binra
binra
Apr 15, 2020 8:30 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

So you set forth your opinion that the MSM has not and is not inciting panic by design, that also serves WHO/Gates/Pharma/Biotech/Banking – in in a word ‘control’ agenda. I do read your meaning rightly here – yes? I don’t see MSM as panicking but as effectively hollow and captured. The setting up of corporate PR operates a network of self referencing memes and themes to splice its viral message into those willing to take the shot. Where’s the substance to the framing narrative and models of mass ‘infection’ and death invoking dictate for indefinite draconian social controls from now on? Where is ‘covid19’ but a way of labelling that is also called false flag. Yes something causes disease symptoms in highly toxic areas – what could it be? Virology doesn’t even pretend to have isolated viruses any more – it never has – let alone pass Koch’s postulates. It… Read more »

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 13, 2020 6:08 PM
Guy
Guy
Apr 13, 2020 4:30 PM

Iceland has tested its population for antibodies and found that half of the people have been infected. They have 8 deaths in 170,000 infections. That is well below flu. Germany are going to test 100,000 for antibodies, if they come back with the same infection rate of 50%, which is expect, that will be 40 million infected and 3,000 deaths. Prof Gupta of Oxford Uni did a study and it predicted that 50% of the UK has been infected. We have 10,000 deaths from 33 million infections.

Richard
Richard
Apr 14, 2020 1:40 PM
Reply to  Guy

Are you sure about this information. Please can you post a link to a reliable source? The news stories I am reading say that of the people who have tested positive for virus 50% of them had no symptoms. I can see nothing which indicates half the population have been infected. I think they are currently testing for the virus. Not the antibody. This is a really important claim you are making (obvisously huge impact on time to herd immunit) so I would grateful if you can check and return…

Guy
Guy
Apr 14, 2020 2:40 PM
Reply to  Richard
Alex
Alex
Apr 14, 2020 7:48 PM
Reply to  Guy

Where does the nordiclifescience link say 50% or half tested positive for antibodies?

What I read suggested a much lower rate of infection among test subjects:

first 5 571 diagnosed tests have yielded 48 positive samples

As of March 25th, 11 727 individuals have been tested by deCODE or the University Hospital of Iceland and around 737 people have been diagnosed with COVID-19

Guy
Guy
Apr 14, 2020 8:10 PM
Reply to  Alex

Feels like you don’t want to understand this data? It took 10 seconds on Google to find more detail on the testing in Iceland and Vo in Italy which confirms that half of people with antibodies are asymptotic.
https://www.zmescience.com/medicine/iceland-testing-covid-19-0523/

Alex
Alex
Apr 14, 2020 8:16 PM
Reply to  Guy

What you wrote in your initial comment implies something very different!

You wrote: “Iceland has tested its population for antibodies and found that half of the people have been infected. ”

This sure sounds like half of the people tested or the population has had the virus at one time.
This is from your most recent link:

“These results are also indicated by a testing survey carried on an entire Italian town of Vo (population 3,300), where the results showed that more than 50% of all cases are asymptomatic.”

This means that half of the positive cases do not show symptoms.

“The whole population of the village was tested, and 3% of the residents tested positive.”

3% is a far cry from 50%!!!!

Guy
Guy
Apr 14, 2020 10:00 PM
Reply to  Alex

Agreed. Having re-read the articles, it is half of the cases are asymptotic, not half of the population. Misleading headline. I await the actual data from wide antibody testing.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:21 AM
Reply to  Guy

“Agreed. Having re-read the articles, it is half of the cases are asymptotic, not half of the population. Misleading headline. I await the actual data from wide antibody testing.”

Good admission. Little culpability, though, given the reverse reification of a putative panic being stoked by this online publication on the basis of a predetermined, prior-determinant mindset. Lulls many into like-mindlessness.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:06 AM
Reply to  Guy

“Iceland has tested its population for antibodies and found that half of the people have been infected.” ‘Iceland’ has so-far tested about 10% of its population using random selection from the telephone directory. It’s an OK approximation to a true random selection from a specified population for most purposes but ‘for most purposes’ is about as far as that ‘OK’ goes. Furthermore, from that point onwards, the sample is self-selected. Those contacted have asked to attend a clinic for testing and those that wanted to have. But don’t worry about it, partially supported opinion or patchy evidence is the preferred currency hereabouts, as this series is not about COVID-19, it is about the–IMO justified except on a practical bricks in the walls timeline–mounting but not yet provable paranoia of the local denizens that detailed plans for a 1984-like panopticon-surveilled and technology (including biotechnology) fuelled desecration of humanity is about to… Read more »

Bunyip Bluegum
Bunyip Bluegum
Apr 16, 2020 11:39 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

I’m not a statistician, but 10% of the population is a pretty big sample. I think the data from Iceland is about the strongest we have at the moment, given it is such a large sample and not distorted by being made up only of those presenting to hospital with symptoms.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 7:46 AM

Thanks for the excellent report!

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 13, 2020 12:00 AM

My last post tonight but a worthy one!

The latest fully updated Covid-19 report from Swiss Propaganda Research. It may have been posted elsewhere but the more coverage it gets, the better.

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:01 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Item # 12 needs adjustment. They ‘were’ resisting suppression. I don’t exactly where they stand now, but they announced that the population’s days of freedom were over. Of course, they didn’t put it that way. (James Corbett reports from Japan where he lives. He’s covered this subject.) Virologist Guilio Tarro seems to be recommending that increased surveilling of people, including tracking them with their smart phones (which it’s my intention to get rid of) is a good idea. I have some issues with that. He recommends doing it like South Korea (a police State) did it.

What a great resource the SPR site is!

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:37 PM

To those wondering why some of us are sceptical about the pressures that we are told that the NHS is under … a brief anecdote.

I saw my neighbour this morning. She is a nurse at Wrexham Maelor hospital (one of the biggest, if not the biggest, hospital in North Wales). She told me how much she was looking forward to this week because she’s on holiday until 18 April. I said nothing.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:30 PM
Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 13, 2020 12:05 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Excellent article. It should be noted that Ferguson screwed up in 2001 with Foot and Mouth, and again in 2009 with Swine Flu.

This article from Wikipedia (it’s not too bad – lots of reputable sources) enables one to make a comparison with the, arguably, measured global response to 2009 Swine Flu with the mad hysteria that’s happening today.

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 13, 2020 12:10 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench
Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:22 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

John argues his position eloquently. One statement he makes, namely “And as I have previously argued, the way we are recording causes of death in terms of respiratory infection is different in this epidemic from any previous one, meaning that our observation and recording of Covid-19 deaths is more comprehensive and therefore potentially more alarming,” caught my eye. I would perhaps have used the word “generous” instead of “comprehensive.” To the average reader, ‘comprehensive connotes something positive. Utilizing – talk about novel! – the practice of presumption (assuming or guessing) in issuing death certificates is not a positive development.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:31 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

John also writes that “It is for ministers, not scientists, to decide whether, in the light of changing evidence and understanding, our response to the virus is proportionate – and how to take us forward.” But that’s simplistic if, in fact, ministers (governments) are taking their marching orders from the Transnational Capitalist Class (TCC), as Peter Phillips and others have demonstrated they do. See my April 12 blog post on A Yappy Trade Barrier for a couple of excerpts from Peter and William Robinson (in his Introduction) looking at the problem of the TCC.

Covid 19 – As The TCC Ordered: The Global Police State / https://arrby.wordpress.com/2020/04/12/covid-19-as-the-tcc-ordered-the-global-police-state/

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:07 PM

Another doctor (Eric Nepute) speaks out about covid-19.

https://www.facebook.com/drericnepute/videos/212203320055065/

Epic video.

(And before posting disparaging remarks, realize that in 80% of this video he is saying the exact same things offG is saying. Try to watch more than the first 5 minutes.)

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:34 AM
Reply to  jim

Facebook no like. All gone.

Pieter Vermeulen
Pieter Vermeulen
Apr 12, 2020 3:17 PM

The Real Science of Germs Do Viruses Cause Disease? Dr. Andrew Kaufman: “I think there are two significant things about how they train doctors, at least in the United States. One thing is that they have told us, as medical students, right from day one that 50% of what they were going to teach us about medicine is going to turn out to be false in five years. That’s a pretty bold statement. People interpreted it as meaning that there’s gonna be better and better treatments and it’s going to improve, but that’s not really what they meant. Kary Banks Mullis was the first person in the ’80s I heard talking about the questionable origin and scientific evidence for HIV. I immediately did some further investigation going back to my medical training. Most published research findings are false and I think that’s really what they were talking about when they… Read more »

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 4:21 PM

“One day it will be discovered that you, physicians, are responsible for more deaths than all us generals put together…”

Interesting article here seems to fly in the face of the meme that all medics are lifesavers. I have every reason to believe that deaths attributable to medical error could rise even higher when inexperienced staff are let loose on ventilators.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 4:53 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Most doctors are not evil psychopathic killers, most doctors mean well. The problem is that they have to follow orders and procedures, and if they don’t they get fired. If they speak out they get fired. The real problem is the medical establishment that is controlling things from above.

Hospital threatens staff with termination if they speak out about COVID-19 conditions in leaked memo

“A leaked memo from HCA Healthcare revealed that they aren’t afraid of firing nurses, doctors or techs even in the era of a coronavirus outbreak.

Business Insider acquired a leaked memo from the largest hospital system in the country, HCA Healthcare, reminding employees that they aren’t allowed to speak out on social media or talk to the media about anything.”

Doctors and Nurses Beware: Hospitals Are Watching Your Facebook

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 5:30 PM
Reply to  jim

Jim

Thanks for these comments. The primary point I was making was that as soon as figures are bandied around about how many critically patients have died (whether it be from Covid19, or anything else), the overall picture has to be viewed in the context of medical error being a possible contributory factor, if not the actual cause. I doubt that we’ll ever be told what the true numbers are. It has to be repeated that the article I linked to suggests that, in the USA, medical error is the third leading cause of death, only beaten by heart disease and cancer. Not only must it cast serious doubt on any official cause of death statistics but it must raise very serious questions about medical competence in some quarters, probably not just in the US.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 6:14 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

An example would be the incorrect use of the ventilators killing patients.

On the one hand you could say that these are medical errors.
On the other hand you could say that doctors and nurses are FORCED to follow certain procedures and protocols coming from up above.

My point is: don’t blame the doctors (who will be fired if they speak up), blame the medical establishment responsible for the procedures and protocols.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 6:45 PM
Reply to  jim

Thanks, Jim. Yep. I have posted a comment elsewhere that one NY IC doctor had stated in an interview for a Spectator article that patients were being placed on ventilators probably sooner than medical advice would recommend but because administrators were demanding it to reduce the risk of medical staff becoming infected.

beer
beer
Apr 12, 2020 8:55 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

I don’t know the details but I have heard that the hospital is paid $39k by the US government for a Covid-19 patient on a ventilator compared with $13k for a standard Covid-19 patient, so there might be a financial incentive.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:21 PM
Reply to  beer

Thanks, @beer

That’s right. I saw a Youtube video where a doctor explained how that worked and the financial incentive. I have looked at so many videos with ‘dissenting ‘ medical practitioners in the past few days that I cannot remember which one it was, but I have seen it.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 9:03 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

The Highwire is excellent. I don’t share Del’s politics, or Christianity, and I have some issues with some of the positions that the show has taken (not questioning the idea that the virus originated in Wuhan and not even acknowledging that some are looking at a possible 5G connection [having to do with 5G absorbing oxygen!]), but otherwise the show is excellent. There is a Highwire website and, as much as Del frets about being shut down on YouTube, he hasn’t said a thing about what he might do if that happens.

https://thehighwire.com/watch/

Kathy
Kathy
Apr 13, 2020 5:52 PM
Reply to  Arby

Another thing that seems intriguing is how many of the UK.hospitals that are reported as having lots of cases of [Covid 19]. Also seem to be ones which have been found negligent previously. Over years the NHS have run a campaign of bullying marginalizing and or sacking staff who have called out bad practice and those staff trying to expose scandals. I wonder what happens when you are left with less competent but more fearful and compliant staff. would they notice or be prepared to stand up against the use of ventilators being used negligently. Or dare report deaths being recorded wrongly. Just a thought.

Arby
Arby
Apr 14, 2020 8:05 AM
Reply to  Kathy

Exactly!

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:53 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

“…the article I linked to suggests that, in the USA, medical error is the third leading cause of death, only beaten by heart disease and cancer.”

Even clerical error in simple data entry doesn’t approach that. I suspect it could be halved and may even then still be high, with subsequent hindsight by superiors contributing a significant proportion and understandable defensive hubris contributing a lot as well. It cannot be easy to reconcile expected omnipotence and frequent patient dependence with actual profession-wide ignorance in the context of normal human empathy. 30% is about right for the overall number of tteatments, whether resulting in death or not, that are either ineffective or positively iatrogenic.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:58 AM
Reply to  jim

Excellent point and good links. I’ll use them in the covid 19 blog post I’m working on right now, along with the John Lee article that Judy links to. An additional point and perhaps some talking points for us: James Corbett looks at the ‘spontaneous’ balcony applause for nurses that spread throughout major cities all around the world and draws some useful conclusions about that, noting the similarities to the glorification of soldiers in the war on terror that led right into… the Patriot Act. Nurses are the new war heroes (as are bus drivers etc, etc). And when those war hero nurses are asked to give you that vaccine that you don’t want… I’ve also written a number of blog posts about Progressives and a topic that I hammer on, because it’s fundamental, is FUNDERS. More generally, factor in paycheques. We live in a (twisted) money system. We can… Read more »

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 12:02 PM
Reply to  Arby

I can’t link to the articles (excluding John Lee’s) on my blog since they present the pandemic as being real, as in the sense of world-ending. The point about censorship in the two articles linked to above is good and one that I’ll pass on of course. But I won’t add to the harmful panic and I won’t reward those who help spread it.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 4:50 PM

Indeed.
‘Don’t let truth get in the way of a good story’.
Without a payoff no one would buy it or sell it.
But once a story is used as a foundation from which to build industries and controls it is locked into a ‘too big to fail’.

Cover stories to escape feared consequence, became the protection racket.
This also operates for the ‘patient’ seeking to get rid of consequences of imbalance or toxicity without addressing their own core responsibilities.

There’s a lot of various resources on whale.to
I much appreciate having just read Fear of the Invisible – a very readable and well researched account that takes in vaccine background – and the unfolding HIV fraud – but is extremely relevant to today.

Dee
Dee
Apr 12, 2020 9:18 PM

Where can I find this article?

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:41 AM

Interesting! John Rappoport has fairly convinced me that the swine flu didn’t exist. (And I’m still open to being corrected on that.) But he comes at it not as a scientist but a dogged investigator. His interview with Sharyl Attkisson, who was a tv reporter who blew the whistle on the WHO’s (I believe it was) fakery surrounding numbers of people infected with swine flu is a must read. She left network tv of course. I’m not endorsing Sharyl Attkisson. I’m just pointing out that, indeed, there’s room for questions, even big ones, especially give the issues with ‘experts’ that John Lee (few posts above) outlines.

Arby
Arby
May 6, 2020 12:35 AM

There’s a YouTube video in which Stefan Lanka discusses this. I can no longer download ‘any’ YouTube videos. I will, if it’s not gone by the time I get around to it, simply use my camera to video record the video. But does anyone know of videos with Stefan Lanka on other sites? I’m on Bitchute, but it’s search feature is useless. Thanks.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Apr 12, 2020 2:44 PM

Boris Johnson – resurrected on Easter Sunday …
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52262012

MG

Nikolay
Nikolay
Apr 12, 2020 2:12 PM

Australia is finally beginning to wake up

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 4:49 PM
Reply to  Nikolay

Good video. But digressing slightly, I was intrigued by the video at about 4 minutes 30 seconds. It shows patients being wheeled along an external hospital walkway. Seemed a bit odd that there are clear temporary ‘triage’ signs pointing to the left entrance yet we see a trolley being wheeled that way and then the same trolley wheeled back in the other direction; and another trolley being wheeled to the right as well. Are we supposed to deduce that, once triaged, the only access to wards or doctors is along a narrow outside walkway alongside arriving ambulance drop offs and weaving in and out of trolleys parked up on the walkway, by staff wearing surgical gowns and masks in less than clean surroundings?
May be…or may be some of @Petra’s scepticism is catching. 😀

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:42 AM
Reply to  Nikolay

SkyNews-Murdochite fascism and fanatic, racist, warmongering, Sinophobia. What a source!

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 12, 2020 1:53 PM

Huge news: Despite the German CDC’s formal recommendation to pathologists not to examine post-mortem alleged covid-19 dead, Professor Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine in Hamburg, did just this: He examined them all. He says that understanding how patients died gives important insights for the treatment of the sick. He found that all of them had severe underlying diseases, though some didn’t know. For them the virus has only been the last straw. About 20% of the examined died of causes that are completely unrelated to the virus. Püschel says that we don’t need to be scared to death. “This is an infectious disease like the many we have known for years. We have had them in the past. We will have them in the future. When it comes to the risk the virus poses on the individual there is nothing special.” “This virus influences our lives in a completely… Read more »

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 12, 2020 1:55 PM

Two German organizations of pathologists have demanded that as many as possible of those who died of covid-19 are examined postmortem in order to understand the disease better. They hope that this will help to find treatment options. They thus object to the formal recommendation of German Robert Koch Institute to not examine covid-19 deaths.

https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/111792/COVID-19-Pathologen-fuer-moeglichst-zahlreiche-Obduktionen

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 9:09 AM

In that article it is noted that one of the objections of the Robert Koch Inst is that opening up a dead body might release the virus via aerosol, whereas I just read on the SPR website (it’s comprehensive coronavirus fact sheet), that there is research showing that the virus is not going to be spread via aerosols.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 3:02 PM

I’ve been reading about health and medicine (mainly from what you might call an “alternative” point of view, but not wholly so), for decades now, and in some of my reading, I’ve gathered that non-forensic autopsies/post-mortems have become much less common in modern times than they once were. Apart from anything else, they were a great learning exercise for the medical profession, who have lost out by their lack, especially young doctors coming into the profession.

I presume that a combination of modern technology, and the false modern feeling that “we now know everything there is to know about the body”, meant that they thought they could do as well, or better by tests, MRIs, X-rays or better, without the gory business of an autopsy.

Possibly Professor Püschel’s work may reverse this trend.

Tea
Tea
Apr 13, 2020 1:18 AM

“not to examine”

Sounds very unscientific.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 1:37 PM

Only indirectly relevant, but I mention it because I also wrote in another post about improving the health of the nation (UK, I mean): when looking to get a better feel of death rates, and how they have varied over time, I came across this graph: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate It shows very clearly that the death rate, in terms of deaths per thousand, was going down sharply from 1979, when it was about 11.8 until 2013, when it was about 9.0. (It’s rather embarrassing to me, a confirmed anti-Thatcherite, to admit that life expectancy started to improve under Thatcher, but there it is; I’ll leave that for someone else to analyse). However, after 2013, it turned sharply up again, so it’s now about 9.4. That does not sound much, but looking on the graph, there is a clear upward trend, which according to the UN is set to continue (no idea what… Read more »

Eric McCoo
Eric McCoo
Apr 12, 2020 1:19 PM

This is government guru Neil Ferguson predicting 200 million bird flu deaths worldwide. Actual deaths worldwide were 455.

‘Last month Neil Ferguson, a professor of mathematical biology at Imperial College London, told Guardian Unlimited that up to 200 million people could be killed.

“Around 40 million people died in 1918 Spanish flu outbreak,” said Prof Ferguson. “There are six times more people on the planet now so you could scale it up to around 200 million people probably.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/30/birdflu.jamessturcke

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 2:55 PM
Reply to  Eric McCoo

Interestingly, while there have been some attempts to liken the current panicdemic to the 1918 so-called Spanish Flu, by and large they don’t seem to have caught on all that well. There are lots of indications that Spanish Flu was not all it seemed, and someone posted some very interesting links on Off-G a week or two ago. (I don’t just mean the misleading name – there is much more to it than that). I will have to dig out the links. (Interestingly my newish Huawei phone wouldn’t let me link to some of them; it was claiming they were “adult” sites, and my phone was not set to allow me to visit adult sites!). Some day, when the current madness has passed, I hope there will be time to revisit “Spanish Flu” again properly, and see what genuine lessons can be learned from it, as well as from our… Read more »

Portonchok
Portonchok
Apr 12, 2020 12:51 PM

It’s way too easy to get dragged down by the bastards, humour is the best way to help us cope and help us get out of it:

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmUXntGlqFI&w=1052&h=592%5D

Nikolay
Nikolay
Apr 12, 2020 11:54 AM

another wonderful article, which explains why the current panic can actually kill more people than the virus

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/06/covid-with-of-or-because-of/#comments

TFS
TFS
Apr 12, 2020 10:55 AM

In all the chicanery going on across the pond with the counting of Covid victims, I wonder if their figures are also skewered because they are know to more dependent on prescription drugs?

Jason Hitchcock
Jason Hitchcock
Apr 12, 2020 9:32 AM

As anyone with half a brain knows, this is nothing to do with a physical sickness and much to do about a control state..either economically or socially ….perhaps both or more?

axisofoil
axisofoil
Apr 12, 2020 3:42 AM
Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 12, 2020 3:11 AM

Nurses are so busy they are flooding TikTok with clips of their cringeworthy dance routines, https://twitter.com/i/status/1248211031744303104
Some useful information in the reaction, too. https://twitter.com/i/status/1248697036112723969

Ken
Ken
Apr 12, 2020 2:24 AM

Curiously everything they are doing stops the unnecessary use of oil….

Ken
Ken
Apr 12, 2020 2:21 AM

What is the point to all this crap? I mean anyone with a functioning brain knows coronavirus is no more deadly than a common cold so wtf is going on?

Shardlake
Shardlake
Apr 12, 2020 8:34 AM
Reply to  Ken

Western economies have been in dire straits for some considerable time now. Make no mistake this is a misrepresented pandemic and it comes at a convenient time as the bubble was about to burst on those who were already financially gaining so naturally they wish to maintain the status quo. The way this has been done has been to create the myth that this Covid virus is grossly more deadlier than the ‘flu is what it is : purely and simply a myth. Add to this our health and social services systems have been under continual bombardment for over a decade which has left those services unable to function like they should and as a consequence of the financial cuts ruthlessly applied to them through nothing more than an ideological and political choice. Our country will be left fiscally depleted for the next decade, or even longer, so austerity measures… Read more »

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 2:21 AM

Because I was visiting France a few weeks ago, and worried about being stranded there, I’ve been paying more attention than usual to the website FlightRadar24.com

I’ve mostly been looking at flights to and from particular airports, but it also has a blog, which I’d not paid attention to until today. This article is quite interesting and relevant:

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/learning-from-the-curve-chinese-aviation-may-offer-early-signs-of-a-covid-19-recovery/

Flightradar24 Note: Airlines and governments have reacted to the spread of COVID-19 with varying speed and levels of restrictions. With Flightradar24 data, ICF examined flights in China, Europe, and the United States to see what lessons can be learned about the decline in air traffic. Their results below offer a sliver of hope—or cautionary tale—for what comes next

Sam
Sam
Apr 12, 2020 2:15 AM

Some data from Scandinavia:

A Danish study looking for antibodies in blood donors concludes that the mortality rate is about 0.16.

In Sweden a hospital has been testing all pregnant women admitted for childbirth for SARS-CoV-2. So far the rate of infection has been 7%. If that were extrapolated to the Swedish population of 10.23 million with 887 Covid-19 deaths the mortality rate would be about 0.12.

Sam
Sam
Apr 12, 2020 2:24 AM
Reply to  Sam

That 7% is obviously CURRENT infections, too, so it should understate the rate of infection (present and past) and the true mortality rate could be lower.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 12, 2020 2:14 AM

RINSE AND REPEAT

I paid little attention to the alleged 2003 SARS pandemic but it is quite astounding how similar it is to the alleged COVID-19 pandemic. Obviously, it acted as preparation for COVID-19, 17 years later. This is an amusing article, “Cough and Awe”, written by UK health writer, Steven Ransom.

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/sars-campaign-for-truth.html

1of7billion
1of7billion
Apr 12, 2020 1:14 AM

Firstly, I want to thank the off-G for heroically keeping the “flag of truth” flying in the face of a world gone very seriously mad. I mean, I should quality that statement, in the sense, I think the world was already pretty mad – I mean the MSM, politicians, most of the scientists and academics in general, and the proportion of the public who believed any of the foregoing list very much – a few weeks ago before all this started, but now we’ve really had it confirmed. Most of these people are for the moment at least stark raving bonkers and totally impervious to reason and truth. As to the stats above, they have been approximately what I have been calculating all along from data that was available here and there for quite a while, but I just am staggered how the scientific and statistical community and all these… Read more »

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Apr 12, 2020 1:52 AM
Reply to  1of7billion

A couple of points 1 of 7.
A hoax by the Chinese doesn’t make sense, because Trump is no better or worse than any of the other corporate puppets. He shoots from his mouth, but most of the time he just does what he’s told/advised.
If the psychopaths want war, he’ll do his duty as the Emperor of the Empire.
The MSM are up to their necks in this bullshit. I can’t see them backing down anytime soon. They get their jollies with drama like this.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 2:15 AM
Reply to  1of7billion

I’d like a very basic question asked – can we really control any virus? No, of course not. The only sensible thing to do, although it’s a long-term strategy, is to genuinely improve the health of the nation. In very broad terms this means improving nutrition and removing pollution. One reason for poor nutrition is lack of income, so we have to bring people on low incomes up to higher incomes (in a way that doesn’t provoke inflation). Then we have to somehow encourage people to find out what is really good nutrition, and of course, there is no one answer, but people have to have good choices. A lot of current nutritional information is misleading, and that will not be an easy problem to solve. About 3/4 of what is on sale in supermarkets is unhealthy crap, and it we stopped it being sold overnight, supermarkets and food suppliers… Read more »

Jeni
Jeni
Apr 12, 2020 8:25 AM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Thank you Mike Ellwood, your comment gets down to the real issues regarding health and wellness and why we don’t get sick unless our bodies feel that it’s necessary to deal with certain toxins and imbalances.

If everyone got smart about wellness then the medical industry would indeed have to rethink and about time too.

We have been indoctrinated with way too much garbage from the medical and pharmaceutical industries, except of course by certain brave souls who would oppose the current drift of hoaxes and scams.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 10:29 AM
Reply to  Jeni

Just to note in this little health thread, toxicity is the other side of nutrition – and toxicity can and does produce conditions assigned as infectious disease. Because our body is within our field of awareness and responsive to our thought and experience, it is also sustained or toxified by the use to which our mind is put as the purpose we accept and align in. A sense of self-conflict is a lack of wholeness – and a lack of health (fear of loss) seeking OUTSIDE itself, can only reinforce its starting point. For this reason trying to prop us a conflicted foundation with externals leads exactly to the world we suffer by unconscious exchange of false premises in need of reinforcement – and therefore control. The idea of ‘fixing’ a broken system has developed All the king’s horses and all the king’s men engaging in futility as a ‘War… Read more »

Jean Wilson
Jean Wilson
Apr 12, 2020 9:48 PM
Reply to  binra

There is no such thing as a virus, as numerous posters here have pointed out. The so-called covid is an exosome, beneficial, as it helps rid the body of toxins. There is no contagion at all. But rest assured, the string-pullers will try this trick again in order to impose their 4th industrial revolution upon us, and most of the sheeple will fall for it again. then, the compulsory vaccine plus microchip.

1984 has begun, with barely a wimper of protest so far.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 11:11 PM
Reply to  Jean Wilson

Well you certainly know how to preach to the choir. I would love you to become more coherent in your message because there is a recognition that sets us free of powerlessness under fear when we recognise how agency is false flagged onto natural and functional communication so as to evade responsibility for the use to which we put our mind. As one of your numerous posters I have to say that ‘pointing out’ does not establish as fact. I can only point to another way of seeing and interpreting that I find coherent and freeing. Reader can then follow their own questioning and find our for themselves. Fear works contagion and this is most evident as millions of terrified people taken past their tipping point to demand the powerlessness of dictatorship and subjection. Orwell originally called his book, 1948. The shift from covert to overt control is a walk… Read more »

Jeni
Jeni
Apr 13, 2020 6:36 AM
Reply to  binra

It’s very hard to comprehend your message binra…your post appears as waffle without any cogent points…do you mind setting out an argument that might be understood please?

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 8:05 PM
Reply to  Jeni

I don’t believe you.

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 2:24 AM
Reply to  1of7billion

Good commentary 1of7. Though I agree with Fair dinkum that the Chinese are not the culprits here. I seriously doubt that the Chinese control BBC and Sky News, the main perpetrators.

I also don’t believe most of the scientists have failed us. Some have, notably those that are politically -funded/-motivated. But many – examples abound on this website – have tried to speak out. They simply don’t get the proper platform. Again, fingers point to MSM.

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate
Apr 12, 2020 12:17 AM

would say that this Corap has the potential to be thousands of times more dangerous than the Flu – for example – Mandatory Vaccinations, Civil War, 5G ( wireless technology) , Medical Care, Poverty, Famine, Kali Yuga etc etc….etc.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 2:58 PM
Reply to  Doctortrinate

An untapped potential remains a latency that doesn’t have to be brought into expression. Death is another word for change from an invested identity in changing forms. By assigning power and meaning to death and destruction, (in fear of pain of loss), we self-isolate or withdraw and withhold from Life – which was never IN the forms so much as through them. And lockdown in the drive to sustain and protect the life that sets its boundary conditions against an Infinite Potential, in which its sense of control OVER Life is rendered obsolete. If conditions no longer support Life, then Life no longer unfold while they hold, or transforms to adapt. The prevailing belief is that conditions determine responses, but while there are conditions to Life embodied, they are not coercive on us, but reflect deeper agreements of mutual alignment in creating the conditions through which life unfolds. And so… Read more »

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 11, 2020 11:53 PM

Ohio woman diagnosed with covid-19 without a test despite not having a fever: https://twitter.com/EM_KA_17/status/1247760134106824704

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 11:33 PM

Cars Queue for Miles at Food Banks as Coronavirus Leaves Millions Unemployed

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:17 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

What about rent? Food is only a tiny fraction of that.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 11:21 PM

I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure, there are too many hysterical people, propagandists, exaggerators, , liars, taboos, censors and ultimately prison cells, waiting to stop us getting to the truth.

RobG
RobG
Apr 11, 2020 11:10 PM

In the hope that it might be helpful for some people, I am someone who’s suffered from chronic anxiety attacks all my life.

It’s a very crippling condition, which you have to accommodate, but I have never, ever let it stop me from a very fulfilling life.

In the present circumstances I know many people will be feeling anxiety, etc.

For people like me (who know a bit about anxiety) it’s just water off a duck’s arse.

I don’t mean to belittle people’s concerns. I suppose I’m just trying to say that there needs to be a bit of perspective.

Death and taxes; you know the old saying.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Apr 12, 2020 12:35 AM
Reply to  RobG

That’s lovely x

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:18 PM

‘Good cop’ Trump is pointing at the 1st of May, early release for good behaviour. But I think ‘bad cop’ military industrial complex might have a different view.

RobG
RobG
Apr 11, 2020 11:14 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

“early release for good behaviour” is never going to happen. These vermin think they will get away with this, and they will unless millions get out on the streets and protest.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 11, 2020 10:12 PM

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-could-biometric-id-cards-offer-the-uk-a-lockdown-exit-strategy-11970628

Identity cards have been mandatory only twice in British history – during the two world wars – moments of enormous national emergency.

Should they be brought in again to deal with the COVID-19 crisis?

The question is more pressing than you might think. Although experts are unsure if the UK’s coronavirus curve is beginning to plateau, we will certainly hit the peak soon.

The “experts” are unsure about the plateau but this writer (Alexander Martin) is certain we will hit the peak soon. (And strictly speaking, you can’t both peak and plateau)

Do these people even read what they write?

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:27 PM
Reply to  George Mc

None of this surveillance is necessary. We just need to protect the vulnerable and keep them safe in in protected areas, and now we know who the vulnerable are following months of data collection, they are the old and the sick.

One of the reasons perhaps why the fit and the young keep appearing to dye in the UK media, because it keeps people away from the obvious solution. ‘Everyone is vulnerable’ they keep saying over and over agin, which is a blatant lie, we are not all vulnerable.

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 11, 2020 10:47 PM
Reply to  George Mc

That is why biometric ID cards have been proposed.

By whom? Sky News?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 12:41 AM
Reply to  Alan Tench

Could be kite-flying by trusted friends. I imagine we’ll be seeing a lot more of that.

May Hem
May Hem
Apr 12, 2020 10:02 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

by gates and his chums. and after this first lockdown ……

“when society isn’t under lockdown will be there an expectation (soon enforceable) that all individuals participate in a strengthening regimen for their bodies and minds in anticipation of the NEXT outbreak? Adherence tracked viadigital fit bits and brain wave headbands? Leaderboards? Badges?

Black Mirror today, but how about next year? Five years from now? What is your “health brand” in this new age of pandemic? How “risky” are you? What level of discrimination will you be subject to? How are you managing your health? How are you tracking it? How will we hold you accountable?” and of course, how can we make a profit out of you.

this coming digital nightmare is full explained on the great blog of alison mcdowell at her website wrench in the gears

Tom Welsh
Tom Welsh
Apr 12, 2020 11:58 AM
Reply to  George Mc

As a professional writer and editor, I always reread what I have written. If no obvious errors jump out at me, I can often find ways to say it better.

As for the “journalists” who write for the MSM, they are like politicians in that they try actively to avoid saying anything falsifiable. Instead, they paint a kind of impressionistic picture with words and phrases.

The average reader is not meant to parse and construe news stories. Instead, he lies back and lets them wash over him like music. What matters is the overall emotional impact.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:22 PM
Reply to  Tom Welsh

A lot of what you find in the msm is just a copy paste of what you find on news services like reuters and ap etc. So the vast majority is coming straight from there. That’s how they so easily propagandize the world in a coordinated fashion.

Portonchok
Portonchok
Apr 11, 2020 9:48 PM

Pretty Vacant was laying down the law today, and in a new “Prime Ministerial” trained voice. So now we know where she’s been hiding for the past few weeks – taking elocution lessons to try and sound Prime Ministerial like Maggie did.

She’s clearly letting the boys fight it out and let them take the flack for the COVID disaster, then she will glide in, cold, calculating and with her new artificial Maggie voice.

The plebs will fall for it and she’ll be the UK’s next PM for sure.

Benji and Mark will be so happy that her “secret“ 2 weeks “holiday” in Israel are giving them their expected returns finally.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:09 PM
Reply to  Portonchok

With her powerful friends in Israel, who helped the tories pull off the antisemitism campaign against Corbyn, you’re right, she’ll be the next Vicereine.

paul
paul
Apr 11, 2020 10:14 PM
Reply to  Portonchok

How diverse! How progressive! A coloured vagina!

hotrod31
hotrod31
Apr 12, 2020 1:55 AM
Reply to  paul

This hypothetical little strategy worked quite well in the US – Obama served as the perfect foil for 8 years of rape and pillage of the 6-7 countries slated for regime change, courtesy of the Ju-virus Yanoon plan.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 11, 2020 10:48 PM
Reply to  Portonchok

“I DO care; I DO care” . . . Yes, Margaret, of course you do. Now have another cup of tea before we look for another helpless group of people to exploit and rob because of our superior bank balances and tax-free perks.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 9:14 PM

In the UK’s government briefing today, apart from the obvious arrogant, corrupt, callus bunch of crooks lying in front of a podium to a dishonest, cowardly press core, I saw what I thought was a paralyzed government, which has got the puppet media ranting endlessly about gloves and face-masks, the current blanket news item in the UK, to distract everyone from the very obvious troupe of elephants in the press room, which could be addressed by the question: Why the bloody hell are we doing this incredibly stupid thing to ourselves and our country? It is the same question which could have easily been asked during the other great American victory, Brexit.………I personally don’t believe our government are paralyzed because Johnson is struck in a hospital bed, I think they are frozen rigid because they are terrified to break ranks and defy US orders. Who I believe is orchestrating this… Read more »

Adam
Adam
Apr 11, 2020 10:33 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Very smartly observed Jim, we’re still not clear on all motives, but collectively we’ll see through this eventually.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 11, 2020 11:28 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

They are also frozen rigid because they know what is coming – the thing this virus scare was supposed to make us not notice…
Stay awake, people.

Binra
Binra
Apr 11, 2020 11:57 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Monopoly globalism is not US as such though it has considerable assets there – which can be brought to bear when needed.

Almost everyone is paralysed. Fear communicates in different forms and yet the form of fear that operates is an enforcable control via different vectors of persuasion and penalty.

Hitchens pointed out the unbelievable belief given to media, gov, and global WHO edict by so many who he thought had a capacity for critical thinking.
Yet it was a walk in.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 12, 2020 12:06 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

“It is the same question which could have easily been asked during the other great American victory, Brexit”

So, why did Obama make the anti-Brexit Intervention that he did?

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 12, 2020 12:10 AM
Reply to  clickkid

https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/05/01/eu-cia-covert-operation/ Snippet: “In the midst of the cold war, the United States and its European allies conceived the EU as the political concomitant of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). The basic idea was to counterpose a European identity against the “internationalist” ideology of the Soviets and their increasingly powerful fifth columns in the West. The “European Movement,” which was and still is the “grassroots” organization that relentlessly pushed for the creation of a European super-state, was financed to the tune of $1 million a year by the “American Committee for a United Europe” (ACUE), which was founded by Allen Dulles, who was at that point chairing a committee tasked with looking at how to organize the nascent CIA, and William “Wild Bill” Donovan, who had been head of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), forerunner of the CIA. Allen Dulles, who would become a CIA’s director, was the Vice… Read more »

Dave Lawton
Dave Lawton
Apr 12, 2020 1:58 AM
Reply to  clickkid

Allen Dulles also created the MK Ultra brainwashing program and hired Sidney Gottlieb to carry out the task.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 12, 2020 9:37 AM
Reply to  clickkid

to clickkid

The same reason he claimed he was going to help millions out of poverty, he was a liar. The war against European via the TTIP which Europe rebuffed and against the the Euro was much alive when he was in power.

hotrod31
hotrod31
Apr 12, 2020 2:01 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Touche!
One exception, if I might … The US is in a similar conundrum because their orders come from , you know where … wink, wink – nod, nod. Ju-virus …

Mucho
Mucho
Apr 11, 2020 8:56 PM

Brendon O Connell broadcast here with some of his best work to date. Starts off with a jaw dropping clip of Steve Bannon waxing lyrical then a summary of some of the most important aspects of his research. Very interesting and very highly recommended.

50. BANNON KISSINGER COVID 19 & THE PRELUDE TO WAR IN JULY 2020

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 9:23 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Steve Bannon the saviour of the Chinese people ? very funny, I don’t hear him trying to stop the US genocide against the Iranian and Venezuelan people. Of course not he is a lying fascist.

Mucho
Mucho
Apr 11, 2020 9:59 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

You smell of agenda

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:10 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Yes, an anti fascist agenda.

Tea
Tea
Apr 12, 2020 1:27 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

“Steve Bannon the saviour of the Chinese people ?”

Steve Bannon is worshipped in underground churches in China along Jesus and other nasty Pentagon officials. This is what proselytising is for.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:49 AM
Reply to  Tea

BULL etc. Or are you taking the mickey?

paul
paul
Apr 11, 2020 10:20 PM
Reply to  Mucho

This guy is even more demented and reptilian than Kissinger.
A sort of downmarket Alex Jones.

hotrod31
hotrod31
Apr 12, 2020 2:17 AM
Reply to  Mucho

Thanks for sharing this podcast. Bannon is another vomit-inducing grub because he has proven to be in bed with the parasites raping and pillaging the resources of the resource-rich, poorer nations.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 8:55 PM

I really value these pieces on the virus but one thing is never explained. The general message seems to be that covid is not particularly worse than the flu. If so, how do you account for the fact that ICU’s are overwhelmed and quite a lot of doctors have died? One possible theory is that covid takes out people who would’ve died anyway in the flu season, it just takes them out at a faster rate, overwhelming ICU’s but not affecting total death rates across the whole season.

Chicot
Chicot
Apr 11, 2020 9:00 PM
Reply to  Mark

Are you sure that icu’s are actually overwhelmed? The government seems very reticent about providing actual figures about that. In the US, it’s becoming pretty clear that they have plenty of spare capacity. I think Cuomo said at one stage they were going to need 30,000 ventilators for NYC and, at present, they need 600! As for doctors dying there’s clearly something going on there. I can only guess that they’re getting a higher viral load than people who normally get the disease due to insufficient quantities of PPE.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 11:36 PM
Reply to  Chicot

Unfortunately I only have it from a good friend in France who knows doctors that ICU’s are overwhelmed there. But I agree you can’t find proper statistics and information on this in the media and that is part of the problem.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 10:34 PM
Reply to  Mark

Narrative, narrative, narrative -and mainstream narrative at that.

I you want to talk about overwhelmed ICUs I want to see well-sourced data – even footage, credible footage of how does the mainstream put it – ‘tsunamis’ of patients pouring in to the ICUs.

Should such data be found, then I want it put into context ie previous years.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 11:37 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I agree, a lot of information is via “I know someone who told me”.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:37 PM
Reply to  Mark

They said today at the new conference, that a large number of medical staff had died, (9 I think) but no details were given or seem to exist in the press. Were they all old and/or with medical conditions ? I heard on the radio we are asked to ‘respect the privacy of the families’, which I think translates as, we’re not bloody telling you.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 11:37 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

These are good questions, why can’t we get answers?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 12:46 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

And of course they could very easily give anonymised statistics without disrespecting anybody’s privacy. So that line is pure humbug.

Binra
Binra
Apr 12, 2020 12:07 AM
Reply to  Mark

If you followed up on the site recommended and used as a basis for the article you would have a better understanding. Or at least a healthy scepticism to the reporting of news.
In Italy – many (I don’t know what proportion) of the doctors who died were retired – in the 80s or 90s and different kind of doctor – ie not front line medical staff.
Deliberate misrepresentation for shock effect – and justification therefore for draconian disempowerments of natural rights of living, and long fought for rights under law – ought to disqualify any such news service or politician from credibility henceforth.

Have a read through and follow the news that is otherwise withheld you by lockstep before it too is locked down.

Mark
Mark
Apr 12, 2020 12:45 AM
Reply to  Binra

I certainly have a scepticism with regards what is being reported in the mainstream and agree this is looking a lot like the usual misrepresentation. Which site are you referring to (there are many links in the article)?

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 4:34 PM
Reply to  Mark

OG take note of Mark’s user experience. It was put at the bottom of the article as the best source of cvd news the link is https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ Though the site has been edited for clarity and a summary at the top recently, there haven’t been any more updates for a few days. However, the overview of information available is key to anyone who has run with the bait and cannot see outside the frame being pushed. It doesn’t go into all areas – but it does point very clearly to the deceits, errors and omissions – that are of course operating a deliberate pretext for overt control under globalist dictate. In this case it was a walk in – without even a metaphorical shot being fired. Will it ‘take’. Are we wanting to be ‘taken in’? So far my sense is that like all wars before – the propaganda simply… Read more »

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 12, 2020 12:17 AM
Reply to  Mark

Good question, Mark, and probably you won’t find the answer here as everybody is too busy talking about fascist take-overs, MSM false narrative pushing and manipulated numbers. You know, all the same ol’ boring alt internet forum stuff. To answer your question (as good as I can): As far as I understand, COVID-19 might or might not be worse than the flu. That is simply not known yet. What is known, is that this is a new virus and nobody is immune to it yet. So if you let it run its course, it could infect many people. Some claim 60-70% of the population. This is different than a normal flu, which returns every year, and for which over the course of a few years, many people have become immune to. Therefore there will be a smaller part of the population infected, I believe 10% is typical for seasonal flu.… Read more »

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

You cant really shut down (cellular) communication (virus), but you can demonise it and get people to shut down their own life support system.

But even within the viral paradigm look at the scientific voices not being given voice on
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 2:40 PM
Reply to  binra

And what you could also do, is make sense.

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 6:44 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

I did wonder if ‘cellular’ would only mean mobile phones to many… Living cells create virus or exosome (nothing else can) as extracellular communication systes of information exchange. They are a packet or packets of information wrapped in proteins – which may be part of their ‘addressing system’ – so as to be recognised and taken in by other cells who can then receive the ‘toxic alarm’ and instruction set for dealing with it. If they have no significant toxic load they may be ‘asymptomatic’ – ie show no symptoms of any clinical illness. The virus (Greek; toxin) – is defined in medical terms as contagious (toxin) and demonised as a pathogen with the ability to disguise itself, hijack cells and attack the body. They HAVE no such intelligence but are ‘given’ it by the casting of the narrative. If you did not get that overall picture, ask me for… Read more »

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 7:02 PM
Reply to  Binra

When engaging with random people on the internet, one needs to determine which ones are worth the time. You called Swiss Propaganda Research the best source for COVID-19 news, so I know enough.

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 8:00 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Well OG did say that – perhaps I did also. I have value all sources – and Swiss Propaganda Research is only collating various resources that are denied a voice regardless of qualification to comment. You draw your own conclusions.

But – again – you dump and run.
What have you got to offer?
I’m not looking to shoot it down – just share something you find of value in all this.

There is nothing random about me or your meeting me.
You chose to react to my post – that is your decision.
Based – whether you know it or not – on your own inner responses to an actual meeting with me.
You knocked.
I answered.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 8:36 PM
Reply to  Binra

I think there is something wrong with your short-term memory. In this very thread you called SPR “…the best source of cvd news…” (scroll up a bit). And you were the one reacting to my post first. You knocked. I’m just being civil. In that post I explained Mark in what sense COVID-19 might be different than seasonal flu. What I got from you, was a totally irrelevant reply, suggesting (from what I understand) that the virus and its mechanisms could also be a metaphor for how things play out politically. How on earth does that engage with what I said?

If you want to engage with me, specifically tell me where I’m right and wrong in my post to Mark. If you want to talk politics, please go play somewhere else.

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 10:06 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Apologies if I didn’t go back and reread the whole history – I have read and commented to very many article around the Net since and so I may have lacked a proper contextual response. I write to the theme which is much bigger than a few stats pushing a narrative. Billions worldwide are forced out of work – for what? Draconian powers taken and martial law enforced and for what? I don’t care if its fascist or anything-else-ist – that fact is a takeover by state power that is globally orchestrated. I just reread your reply to Mark and I state that many articles by qualified people refute what you are saying. It is simply untrue. I don’t say that you do not believe it – and perhaps your opening dismissal of ‘all the usual boring facist takeovers’ would provide a reason for why you would have to believe… Read more »

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 10:59 PM
Reply to  Binra

Good to hear my reply taught you how a forum works.

Also good to know my points are simply untrue. You have convinced me I was wrong. I will look for the answers (if I dare) on a website on which all articles point in the same direction. I see they even have some articles that use this website as a source (and I know that this website is very balanced and intellectually honest). And oh wait… the contributors of said site prefer to stay anonymous. Thanks for the link!

I don’t think you are as critical as you think you are. And I also think you don’t really understand how power works. Maybe you should comment a bit less and think a bit more for yourself. At the moment they have you exactly where they want you.

binra
binra
Apr 14, 2020 1:44 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Well, your cynical smugness and smear aside, the collated reports on the Swiss site are documented and for the most part highly qualified or respected – there are a few links to mainstream news pages that may not meet that criteria. I also said ‘if you care’. If you have any link to examples of your superior critical thinking as to how power really works – please enlighten me to even more than ‘linear forum protocols’. You mention ‘they’ have me where ‘they’ want me. Who might ‘they’ be? If you know anyone else who thinks like me I would love to meet them 😉 Thinking divorced from the heart operates a loveless and even ‘Luciferian’ agenda – in cynical, hateful, undermining of life, by attacking itself in others from a false light of smug self-certainty. I respect your freedom to look where you see fit. The nature of a… Read more »

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 2:38 PM
Reply to  Mark

I managed to talk to an expert (virologist) about this, and it turns out that with seasonal flu, far fewer people end up in ICU. And if they do, they typically leave the ICU within a few days (instead of with COVID-19, where people might stay in ICU far longer). I’ve seen conservative estimates where ICU admissions with COVID-19 are 15 to 35 times higher than with seasonal flu. And that’s with the current lock-downs in place. So you can imagine that this number would be far higher if we let the virus run its course. The expectation of way more people in ICU and them staying longer is what led to the current measures. And remember, the peak is yet to come in many countries. I was also told that doctors are quite shocked at how destructive this virus is. Those who survive could be left with a lot… Read more »

Mark
Mark
Apr 13, 2020 11:40 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Thanks that’s helpful. I wish we had these virologists on TV, it seems like all sensible discussion is “I know someone who told me”.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 14, 2020 12:57 AM
Reply to  Mark

Well, from your point of view my reply should also look like “I know someone who told me” 😉 But I agree that, while not interesting to everyone, some people are interested to know answers to questions like “is this different than the seasonal flu?” A website like this does a horrible job, because they already know the answer. So they get some quote from some critical scientist and some numbers from Swiss Propaganda Research and feed it to the gullible pack here. That has nothing to do with critical journalism. (But that’s also not the goal of this website, as should be clear.) I really wish the answers to questions like these could be found on for instance the WHO website. Governments need to be aware that lies or half-truths on the internet can go viral, so they need to counter it and provide their own source. Not to… Read more »

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 11, 2020 8:29 PM

“We are at a dangerous threshold, on the cusp of an internationally orchestrated, fascistic financial coup” -Ernst Wolff

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 8:44 PM
Reply to  DavidW

You mean USA orchestrated fascistic coup, there is no other, world structure, system or organisation other than the military industrial Corporate complex of the USA able to do any of what you claim these ‘financiers’ are going to do. It is a national operation by the Empire, the one we must never never mention. You can blame the bankers the oligarchs or even the jews but don’t mention the USA, that is not allowed, despite the mass of evidence pointing directly at the USA.

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 11, 2020 9:01 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

I’m not claiming anything Jack. just passing on something I think might interest other people. I like that the focus is mostly on what is happening with the Western financialisation meltdown, it really makes you realise how much of a sideshow the Corona stuff is.

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 11, 2020 9:07 PM
Reply to  DavidW

I also think ‘they are all in it together’. The global elite is in play here. this is way above governments.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 9:32 PM
Reply to  DavidW

It would be interesting to watch Elon musk a few Bankers & Oligarchs explain that to a room full of US generals and the head of the CIA & NSA, when they have their entire lives totally bugged and a few hundred thousand primed men and missiles at their fingertips. I’m sure they can do business but the greater American project is the only game in town.

Binra
Binra
Apr 12, 2020 12:34 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Well you can run with that but it’s transnational or ‘global’. You can sort of identify a power class that like a Mafia has territorial squabbles but unites in protecting its common interest. You can focus on different levels – for the ideas are sown first and the policies follow – with political sideshow to divert attention. The right to rule is actively claimed by doing it, and learning to do it in ways by which we do it for them, against ourselves. Not least by manipulating guilt and fear as identity assets. I find blaming to be a complete waste of time and life – but I hold responsibility as foundational to life and freedom. A system of cover stories set against owning and meeting consequences became ‘The Economy’ of destruction by which to raid anything left to support its habit. Dissociation can run a self-evasion under the belief… Read more »

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 12, 2020 12:50 AM
Reply to  DavidW

Bloody hell… He says he doesn’t want to encourage panic, but my local bank is going to notice if a stack of people suddenly want to take out a fair bit of money… Still, I suppose at least that would hasten the inevitable – a sort of mercy-killing of the banks…?
He is a very persuasive speaker, clearly exceptionally on the ball regarding world finance. This content doesn’t fall into the “conspiracy theory” categories set for controversial and uncomfortable ideas, but he states what he sees happening as if stating it was the most obvious thing to do in the world. One of those rare videos which clarify controversial things instead of shrouding them in even thicker fog.
Thanks for posting it.

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 12, 2020 8:50 AM
Reply to  wardropper

Hi Wardropper, I think if you look at the numbers its obvious the economy is truly knackered. The level of corporate debt is insane. A corporation doesn’t reinvest its profits in real things like more production, expansion anymore but buy backs of its own stock. They even borrow to do this. This is not real growth and it will pop at some time. With the interest rates being so low from the ‘money tree’ the elites have had access to almost free money since 2008. The fed pumped 1.5 Trillion into the markets on the 13th March and it buoyed the markets for 2 hours before it disappeared without trace. He states in the vid that the BIS have calculated an estimate of the derivative debt bubble and its estimated at 700 TRILLION. A great economist who was one of the few who saw the 2008 crash coming is Michael… Read more »

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 13, 2020 2:19 AM
Reply to  DavidW

I agree totally with everything you say, David. and I thought the video was exceptionally clear and informative. The first part of my comment was just a comic outburst of over-acting based on the purely selfish idea that my local bank would probably panic in such circumstances, and refuse to let anybody take any significant amounts of money out, as Dr. Wolff suggested might be a sensible thing to do… When it comes to any sort of official services, we have few friends in the world, and bankers, the media, the police and Parliament are not our friends. I still remember vividly the embarrassing shenanigans in the US Senate as Ben Bernanke of the Fed Reserve calmly lied about what was going on in 2008. Despite some fine token criticism and interrogation, he was not arrested, or even fired, for his shameless defence of utter wickedness. I gather he is… Read more »

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 11, 2020 8:23 PM

How about this?:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-3d-model-reveals-how-covid-19-can-spread-in-supermarket-11971373

Particles carrying the coronavirus can remain in the air longer than previously thought, according to researchers.

Scientists in Finland have released a 3D model showing how coronavirus is transported through extremely small airborne aerosol particles when a person coughs, sneezes or talks.

They said their findings “emphasise the importance of avoiding busy indoor spaces” during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Watch that CGI simulation. Two figues separated by shelves and standing about 10 m apart. But watch that lethal cloud!

So – new rules? Forget the 2m space. We must have much much greater distance. And objects in between won’t help!

OK here’s an idea: How about just show us John Carpenter’s “The Thing” where ANYONE could be one of THEM. And being one of THEM makes you turn into a rampaging tree-sprouting spider head!

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 11, 2020 8:38 PM
Reply to  George Mc

From the above link:

Researchers find particles carrying the virus can remain in the air for several minutes after a COVID-19 sufferer coughs.

Perfectly true of course. I was in Tesco’s today with about 40 other people. One of them coughed and about 30 dropped dead right away. I only managed to stay alive by speeding towards the door and just narrowly overtaking that fetid cloud.

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:57 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Clearly the only ultimate solution to this situation is everyone permanently living in their own secure biorepository vessel. A stainless steel, twin walled chamber of about 2m x 1m x 1m should do it, with an IV food drip, internet connection and all serviced by Amazon robots.
We’ll beat this thing !

MrChops
MrChops
Apr 12, 2020 12:20 AM
Reply to  crank

Almost the synopsis for The Matrix………

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 11, 2020 11:05 PM
Reply to  George Mc

People have become so brainwashed that you could get let out the loudest most foul smelling gas and you would get fewer dirty looks than if you sneezed.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Apr 12, 2020 12:55 AM

A nice lady sneezed in front of me and immediately laughed and said she ought to be careful.. I warned her of the danger of getting shot.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:26 PM
Reply to  George Mc

And cops have an invisible shield of protection around them, so they can be next to each other no problem.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 8:48 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Fuck that, I’ve had enough of this shit already. If I get it, then I get it, I want to die a free man not cowering in my flat from an invisible fantom of the facist media’s creation.

Stan Smith
Stan Smith
Apr 11, 2020 8:10 PM
clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:38 PM
Reply to  Stan Smith

Thanks Stan, I like a good horror story, but remember that in serious discussions, arithmetic always trumps narrative.

By the way you were lucky to beat Ilie Nastase at Wimbledon 1972.

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:40 PM
Reply to  Stan Smith

Thanks for that Stan.
It was entertaining.
If we think the exaggeration is bad here, I guess we need to remember the vultures, the cadavers on trains and the burning piles of corpses in the streets…etc. Real Sunday Sport stuff.
Please be more discerning, or something.

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:04 PM

In OffG’s article about Death Figures, Kit mentions the delay between reported deaths and registered deaths, and the danger of double counting: The ONS system is predicated on the registration of deaths. Meaning they count, not the number of people who die every week, but the number of deaths registered per week. This, naturally, leads to slight delays in the recording of numbers as the registration process can take a few days. However, with coronavirus deaths, since its a “national emergency”, they are now including “provisional figures” which will be “included in the dataset in subsequent weeks”. This leaves them wide open to – either accidentally or deliberately – reporting the same deaths twice. Once “provisionally”, and then once “officially” a week later. This from CEBM explains that the media quoted figure for ‘today’s deaths’ is in fact not referring specifically to people who have died today, but today and… Read more »

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 11, 2020 9:25 PM
Reply to  crank

A couple of good documents. Well worth reading to get an idea of what’s likely to be going on. Their assessment is that the death rate may have now peaked. However, we’ve still got the ‘infected person run over by a bus’ problem.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:15 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

You mean Data collection anomalies.

P K
P K
Apr 11, 2020 8:00 PM

How do we explain the situation in New York? This is a common objection I get when I present articles like this to people who are paralyzed with fear of this virus. The numbers haven’t lied to us thus far in terms of other countries realizing low mortality rates of this virus. But you also can’t hide deaths either, and there are a larger number than normal in NY. I know that worldwide, and especially in the U.S., there has be a very overzealous and judicious use of the term “COVID-19 death” for practically any death that happens. And I also know that countries that are truly looking into deaths are realizing that the majority of deaths labelled as COVID aren’t actually COVID, but ‘normal’ deaths or multiple medical problems compounded by COVID. And I can pretty well guarantee that the U.S. will NEVER look into by COVID and with… Read more »

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:12 PM
Reply to  P K

Got any figures on NY deaths now and other years?

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:35 PM
Reply to  P K

Just spent a couple of mins lookuing at Basic stats.

According to Wikipedia (sorry) -there have been 7844 deaths so far from CV in about a month.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_New_York_(state)

According to this:

https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2017/table31a.htm

There were a total of 155191 deaths in the state in 2017.

That’s about 13000 a month.

So, we have plenty of normal deaths to hide a covid-19 epidemic in – if we so wish.

March is a typical flu month – so that makes it even easier.

Total mortality statistics are your friends.

P K
P K
Apr 11, 2020 8:44 PM
Reply to  clickkid

IOW, no real excess mortality, and with COVID-19 deaths falling off in the next week or so, the likelihood of excess mortality will decrease or barely make a bulge in the stats.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 11, 2020 10:42 PM
Reply to  P K

Abnormally high population density. Heavy reliance on the subway. NYC is more like an East Asian city than a typical America one.

Reg
Reg
Apr 11, 2020 11:30 PM
Reply to  P K

P K, think of it this way. You’ve seen or read about magicians making trains or elephants or the Empire State Building disappear, right? That’s where we are. It’s an illusion. A trick. They have fucked with your mind and robbed you of every penny you had and now they will tag you and make sure you never think or say anything unorthodox ever again. This is Armageddon. Freedom v slavery.

livingsb
livingsb
Apr 12, 2020 12:17 AM
Reply to  P K

They fucking rigged the two largest buildings in the world to collapse into their own footprints in NYC and few made a peep about some sort of proper investigation. So proving a point isn’t the issue, its getting people out of their cognitive dissonance.

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 1:08 AM
Reply to  P K

One possible answer is that people are now afraid to call for an ambulance when they have a cardiac arrest. This caused an excess of 1,250 deaths in the week of 5 April.

Of course they will all be “due to covid 19”, even though by definition none of them were tested.

May Hem
May Hem
Apr 12, 2020 5:53 AM
Reply to  David

i’ve watched bits of TV here in australia – no other topic but the plandemic. but i’ve never viewed a real person with the alleged virus. its always scenes of hospital corridors with lots and lots of machinery and screens, people in plastic and masks writing notes down or typing on a computer and walking up and down corridors. so where are the sick people?

and on the scenes of mass graves in new york – this could all be fake. lots of crisis actors out of work? yes, i’m a cynic when it comes to mainstream media and the necessary fear porn prior to imposing their fourth industrial revolution upon us all…..if we let them!

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 6:13 AM
Reply to  May Hem

Then you might enjoy this hazmat suits video from the UK. A guy who supposedly died from covid19 was actually alive and well.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:54 AM
Reply to  David

That’s astounding, David. Whatever happened clearly took some forethought and couldn’t just be explained away as a misunderstanding.

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 10:59 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Yes Judy. Scary isn’t it?

bob
bob
Apr 11, 2020 7:37 PM

This might seem a silly comment but has anybody written to their MP about this? Has anybody expressed their displeasure at what is happening? MPs are running scared of the public because they know they have set something up that is problematic. Most MPs are COWARDS – a mass public campaign to write to these people – elected only a few months ago – why are we letting them get away with all of this shit?? We have to wake up too and act according to our consciences. You may not get any replies – I haven’t – and bear in mind each MP has a crowd of ‘helpers’/ gatekeepers, volunteers or paid (by us) mandarins who think they are in charge. Delusion idealogues who are perpetrating the mythology of their superiority – they need bringing down. This is something we can all do. These twats need exorcising and it… Read more »

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 11, 2020 7:57 PM
Reply to  bob

I did email the other day, mainly to send her information about Andrew Saul’s website and recent videos, but I also said that I thought the lock-down was doing damage and should be ended as soon as possible. I didn’t go into details, but I just thought I should express the view in case she is under the impression that everyone approves of it. I hope other sceptics write to her.

bob
bob
Apr 11, 2020 8:18 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

well done Mike – it’s the least we can do – we underestimate the power we have as a community- these MPs are paid by us to represent us but they don’t – and few seem to mind or even think!! Just when are we going to fight back????

““The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie–deliberate, contrived and dishonest–but the myth–persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

[Commencement Address at Yale University, June 11 1962]”

― John F. Kennedy

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:32 PM
Reply to  bob

“written to their MP”

Pointless. That will only get you on their blacklist which they will use when it’s time to round up potential troublemakers.

Stop thinking that politicians are going to save you or turn things around. The entire system needs to be rebuild from the ground up. How many decades of disappointment is it going to take to realize this?

Willem
Willem
Apr 11, 2020 7:23 PM

This is from Orwell (https://orwell.ru/library/essays/Spanish_War/english/esw_1) ‘I know it is the fashion to say that most of recorded history is lies anyway. I am willing to believe that history is for the most part inaccurate and biased, but what is peculiar to our own age is the abandonment of the idea that history could be truthfully written. In the past people deliberately lied, or they unconsciously coloured what they wrote, or they struggled after the truth, well knowing that they must make many mistakes; but in each case they believed that ‘facts’ existed and were more or less discoverable. And in practice there was always a considerable body of fact which would have been agreed to by almost everyone…. … It is just this common basis of agreement, with its implication that human beings are all one species of animal, that totalitarianism destroys. Nazi theory indeed specifically denies that such a… Read more »

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:14 PM
Reply to  Willem

And what instance is there of a modern industrialized state collapsing unless conquered from the outside by military force?

The Soviet Union.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:15 PM
Reply to  clickkid

plus satelites.

Willem
Willem
Apr 11, 2020 8:25 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Good one. Thanks for that

NickyJenkins
NickyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 6:48 PM

Greetings from the west Wales coast UK, this website has been mentioned by a poster on the tivysideadvertiser and you would think this was a place full of anarchistical dropouts with far too much time on their hands, and what do I find, ballanced journalism with links to the sources, a lobby for people to discuss event which looks incredibly civil compared to the tivy with people actually debating in a respectful and informative manner which leads me to ask if I am in the right place as according to some on the tivy you people here are lunatics, conspiracy theorists and anarchists. Thank you for a wonderful website that appears to be on the button regarding current affairs and a forum where petty insane squabbling is not obvious, ( I haven’t seen any petty minded squabbles here yet) In my area of Cardigan Bay, last Thursday at 8pm my… Read more »

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 7:08 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Nice to have you here Nicky -looking forward to your contribution.

Now that you’ve priased us or not being petty-minded, we’ll have to try and live up to it.

Betrayed Planet
Betrayed Planet
Apr 11, 2020 7:11 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

I laughed when I read your post. I live in the Beacon’s and I had the identical situation with my neighbours. The hypocrisy of it all burns. Also my son, an A/E doc said he is bored, hardly anyone attending A/E. What is going on? I have just read in the now offensive Guardian, Wintour asking the question as to what comes when this is over. What ” New World Order” will be created and who will run it. Astonished at the gullibility of people however there are signs that a decent % are not swallowing the hype or rather hysteria.

NickyJenkins
NickyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 7:22 PM

The police and the army ready to enforce the new world order, not just them, jobsworths in the local Tesco store have pushed me to do all my shopping in Aldi where they are much more chilled and relaxed and some staff not buying the narrative being fed either, shopping in Tesco’s here is like stepping back in time to 1930’s Berlin, I wanted to scream at some staff that they are only shop assistants but that would not be fair on the majority of staff who are very nice. We are banned from our beaches here, council closed coastal paths and police stopping us to ask who we are and where we are going, it cant go on much longer, people eventually/hopefully will have to bite back.

NickyJenkins
NickyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 7:23 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Forgot to add, I love my avatar, not a million miles away from the reality that is moi! 😉 🙂

marvin
marvin
Apr 11, 2020 9:36 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Yes – i do that too ! I go into a shop – if i find they are acting like little Nazi’s – then i walk out and find one that is far more laid back !! So far i have found B+M’s pretty good, my local SPAR, the OneStop shop, Lidl and Poundland to be very laid back. I went into Sainsbury’s with a family member and the family member was pounced on and asked to leave as they said they now have a one person policy !! I won’t be shopping there ever again ! I intend to remember which shops acted like idiots long after this nonsense is done with !!

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 11, 2020 8:08 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Shwmae Nicky a chroeso cynnes.

Mae gynon ni hyd yn oed ychydig siaradwyr Cymraeg yma. (Dim ond dysgwr ydw i 🙂 )

Welai di yma eto yn fuan, gobeithio.

Hwyl fawr.

Hi Nicky, and a warm welcome.

We even have some Welsh speakers here. (I’m only a learner 🙂 ).

See you here again soon, I hope.

Cheers.

NIckyJenkins
NIckyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 8:51 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

noswaith dda mike,

dwi’n dda iawn diolch, I actually hail from Plymouth Devon, but of Welsh parentage and strong family links here, I speak a little which always goes down well with the natives, English is the 2cd language here and it really is a delight to see young mothers chatting and singing to their newborns in Welsh when they are out shopping etc, Welsh language alive and kicking here and sure you would be welcomed with open arms, I only have to say Diolch yn Fawr to get the big thumbs up.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 1:08 AM
Reply to  NIckyJenkins

Da iawn! Initially started learning with Say Something in Welsh. A great bunch of people. When I started, the level one course was totally free, and they had levels 2 & 3 that you could pay for via a subscription model. I think it’s different now, and you might only get a few lessons free and then start paying, but it’s still great value. I’m still subscribing. They’ve branched out into other languages, but that was developing slowly last I heard, but it may have taken off more recently. One great thing they do with Welsh was a “bootcamp”. 7 days in a communal living setting with NO English. I did 2 of these,in Tresaith, Ceredigion, and they also ran them in North Wales. Only did 4 a year (2 north 2 south). Great place, Tresaith: reminded me of “The Prisoner”. 🙂 They have separate courses for North Walian and… Read more »

ame
ame
Apr 11, 2020 6:39 PM

NHS website as of now
QUOTE we are pausing the collection and publication of these and some of our official statistics UNQUOTE
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/critical-care-capacity/

Ted
Ted
Apr 11, 2020 6:07 PM

Sigh … even as overall rates show the original models to be wildly, dangerously wrong. Today the New York Times releases another deep state powerpoint that presents wildly inflated numbers, should they end totalitarian rule too soon….

http://ocregister.ca.newsmemory.com/?publink=1732ef16c

Willem
Willem
Apr 11, 2020 6:35 PM
Reply to  Ted

Boycot the New York Times

John ErvIn
John ErvIn
Apr 11, 2020 7:00 PM
Reply to  Willem

Hell, those CIA assets there have an impregnable paywall now. I used to read it online at my libraries, out of morbid curiosity for research on their unique brand of propaganda.

Now, they block even most of the libraries, those pimps.

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 11, 2020 7:45 PM
Reply to  John ErvIn

When did the NYT start a paywall? They’ve made it free now for the duration of the panic-demic, but I recall it was free a few weeks ago.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Apr 11, 2020 7:10 PM
Reply to  Ted

NYT is absolute horse cock.

livingsb
livingsb
Apr 12, 2020 12:19 AM
Reply to  Ted

Fuck the NYT.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 11, 2020 6:03 PM

The lastest SWEDISH UPDATE from the Daily Mail is out.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:36 PM
Reply to  Seamus Padraig

As predicted the Sweden-bashing has already started:

“Sweden’s flawed coronavirus battle plan hits the poor & elderly, resulting in worst death count among Nordic countries”

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/485522-sweden-coronavirus-worst-death-count/

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:52 AM
Reply to  jim

Is it true or not?

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Apr 13, 2020 12:50 PM

One would need to compare this to something comparable, say past flu-seasons? Although these numbers are minuscule by comparison. Time will tell in Sweden, or course.

Greg Bacon
Greg Bacon
Apr 11, 2020 5:58 PM

What we’re seeing here is a controlled demolition of the world’s economy. On 9/11, that type of planned destruction led to nearly 19 years of “Let’s kill Muzzies” fear that worked wonderfully for those asshats that were behind the 9/11 False Flag.

Now the same schlockmeisters are back, and this time, they’re hiding the Wall Street pigs greed of not being able to support the 1.5 QUADRILLION derivatives bets from collapsing and taking down Wall Street and markets all over the West, but we don’t hear about those bad bets being covered, we’re being told endlessly, “You’re going to DIE unless you give up civil liberties and get a Bill Gates approved vaccine!”

Pieter Vermeulen
Pieter Vermeulen
Apr 12, 2020 3:00 PM
Reply to  Greg Bacon

In his book entitled Confessions of a Medical Heretic, Dr Robert Mendelsohn MD indicates that belief in the ‘authority’ of the medical establishment is misplaced. He expands on his discussion of the problems with ‘modern medicine’ by reference to similarities between beliefs, religion and ‘modern medicine’. He describes the medical establishment as ‘the church of modern medicine’ and justifies this description with the statement that: “Modern medicine can’t survive without our faith, because modern medicine is neither an art nor a science; it’s a religion… Just ask ‘why’ enough times and sooner or later you’ll reach the chasm of faith.” Science is an ongoing process of enquiry and discovery; this means that scientists should reassess theories that have been found to be flawed and generate more compelling explanations for the phenomena under review. Yet the ‘germ theory’, which can be shown to be fundamentally flawed, has not been subjected to… Read more »

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:55 AM

When I started working in hospitals, neurologists declared, to a man, that brain damage and decline was irreversible. Then they discovered otherwise. Generally they do seem to learn from experience, but often very slowly and only when the Head of Department turns up his toes.