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Coronavirus Fact-Check #3: “Covid19 is 20x DEADLIER than the flu!” One of the buzz-stats doing the rounds says this novel virus is far more dangerous than influenza, does the science hold up?

Since the early days of the current pandemic, the go-to comparison has been influenza, both the specific historical outbreaks and the general seasonal “flus” (a catch-all term for respiratory viruses) which hit all over the world every winter.

That comparison is very often met with this simple retort:

Covid is nothing like the flu, it’s 20 times more dangerous!”

But is this true?

No, it’s not.

While the generally accepted flu death rate of 0.1% is twenty times lower than the media reported Covid19 death rate of between 2% and 4%, research suggests the media-reported death rate is far too high.

The World Health Organization has estimated Covid19’s “official” death rate at 3.4%, clinical studies done on Sars-Cov-2 put its actual case-fatality ratio at around 0.1%. Roughly equal that of regular season flu outbreaks.

The problem arises from what scientists and statisticians call “selection bias”:

the bias introduced by the selection of individuals, groups or data for analysis in such a way that proper randomization is not achieved, thereby ensuring that the sample obtained is not representative

Essentially, the way you choose your sample can have a huge impact on the results of your study.

In this case, since only the people sick enough to need treatment in hospitals or clinics are being tested, only those people with severe or critical symptoms will ever be counted in the statistics.

The WHO figure, for example, of 3.4% is based only on those patients who were treated in hospital.

But what about people who got sick but never reported it? Or who never had any symptoms so never knew they were infected?

Studies suggest that 50-80% of people infected with Sars-Cov-2 never experience any symptoms. Many others experience symptoms mild enough they never need medical treatment.

Accounting for these cases brings the death rate down by a factor of ten.

The countries that have done the broadest population studies – ie. testing random sections of the population who have no symptoms – are Germany, South Korea and Iceland.

They return death rates of 0.37% 0.6% and 0.4% respectively.

Dr John Ioannidis from Stanford University estimates a death rate between 0.025% and 0.65%. Another study, from Japan, found the death rate to be between 0.04 and 0.12.

These are both, potentially, markedly LOWER than seasonal flu.

In short: No, coronavirus is not “20x deadlier” than the flu. The science suggests it may be anything from very slightly worse, to noticeably better.

Statistics compiled with the assistance of Swiss Propaganda Research. Visit their site, they are the definitive resource for finding Coronavirus facts, figures and expert opinion.

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Mike Roberts
Mike Roberts
May 28, 2020 3:12 AM

The 0.1% flu fatality rate is based on estimates of influenza infection, which is not a number we know the accuracy of. So Covid-19 and flu can’t be compared directly. There are estimates of Covid-19 infection which are not confirmed through tests but they would also have very large error bars. How deadly Covid-19 is may not be known for years but looking at excess deaths would give a clue. It’s a shame that that basis hasn’t been used in this article.

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 10:11 PM

Monday, April 13, 2020 I see significant updating on
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

The expanded overview at top of page would make a good summary to offer the fearful or desperate subject to their willingness to read it.
or worth reposting as a new OG article with full attribution.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 3:45 AM
Reply to  Binra

“The expanded overview at top of page would make a good summary to offer the fearful or desperate subject to their willingness to read it.”

When a purportedly ‘objective, evidence-based’ website references a committed, freeform opinionating, determined-contrarian website such as the Off-Guardian on it’s current perversely inverse reification of what it regards as an MSM (!) panic over COVID-19, I do believe that that can be correctly termed ‘recursion’.

binra
binra
Apr 15, 2020 8:30 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

So you set forth your opinion that the MSM has not and is not inciting panic by design, that also serves WHO/Gates/Pharma/Biotech/Banking – in in a word ‘control’ agenda.

I do read your meaning rightly here – yes?
I don’t see MSM as panicking but as effectively hollow and captured.

The setting up of corporate PR operates a network of self referencing memes and themes to splice its viral message into those willing to take the shot. Where’s the substance to the framing narrative and models of mass ‘infection’ and death invoking dictate for indefinite draconian social controls from now on?
Where is ‘covid19’ but a way of labelling that is also called false flag.
Yes something causes disease symptoms in highly toxic areas – what could it be?
Virology doesn’t even pretend to have isolated viruses any more – it never has – let alone pass Koch’s postulates. It can now take code fragments from extracted serum (from often extremely few samples) that has had its larger particles centrifuged out – and remodels the ‘virus’ to then clone it by splicing RNA in a lab.

The best analogue to understand virus is computer code.
The best understanding of ‘virus’ is exosome – as CELL PRODUCED – extracellular communication and exchange of instructions.
While I do not accept the anthropomorphic attribution to a virus of hijacking a cell.
It is possible that directly injected ‘cloned’ virus can hack our DNA – especially when that is their express purpose – as with the new wave of ‘immunisations’.
Superstition is much more powerful than science – and the ability to mess around in the human genome is always a shot in the dark – but then the subjects are expendable – and iatrogenic consequence can always be ‘flagged’ as a more aggressive disease development requiring more ‘powerful treatments’ from a cowed and demanding population.

The ability to set out definitions, models, treatments and laws without due scrutiny of transparency and accountability is the establishing of narratives by which the engaging in the process of such, is deemed not merely contrarian but traitorous.

Without captive fear this whole thing takes all its apparent substance from the results of REACTION. Manipulating narrative perception is the way to frame and direct reaction and interpret the result from the baited and invested frame.

I don’t see your comment being anything but contrarian , while hiding it in clever sounding supercilious insinuations. Are you suggesting MSM induced panic is indeed ‘saving lives’? – not to mention ‘saving’ (UK) our private-public (captured) NHS?

A lie will say and seem to do anything to get its own way. Birds of a feather flock together – and shit from on high. This is a globalist ‘pandemic’ using our core protective response as weapons against us – just as auto-immune disease – or perhaps more akin to a parasitical redirection of the host’s nervous system that uses other’s good intentions to entrap them in powerlessness.

Why would a lie be given power over truth but that we are already looking out from its premises?

Thanks for prompting this morning meditation. You have a knack of sparking good connections in me – perhaps because I have a sense of you alive, human, and as a feeling being regardless your retorts. For if you have a sense of what is wrong then surely this counters something you truly care for – and a machine cannot but mimic care as ‘services delivered’. Whatever you choose to believe – at least connect with what you truly care for.

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 13, 2020 6:08 PM
Guy
Guy
Apr 13, 2020 4:30 PM

Iceland has tested its population for antibodies and found that half of the people have been infected. They have 8 deaths in 170,000 infections. That is well below flu. Germany are going to test 100,000 for antibodies, if they come back with the same infection rate of 50%, which is expect, that will be 40 million infected and 3,000 deaths. Prof Gupta of Oxford Uni did a study and it predicted that 50% of the UK has been infected. We have 10,000 deaths from 33 million infections.

Richard
Richard
Apr 14, 2020 1:40 PM
Reply to  Guy

Are you sure about this information. Please can you post a link to a reliable source? The news stories I am reading say that of the people who have tested positive for virus 50% of them had no symptoms. I can see nothing which indicates half the population have been infected. I think they are currently testing for the virus. Not the antibody. This is a really important claim you are making (obvisously huge impact on time to herd immunit) so I would grateful if you can check and return…

Guy
Guy
Apr 14, 2020 2:40 PM
Reply to  Richard
Alex
Alex
Apr 14, 2020 7:48 PM
Reply to  Guy

Where does the nordiclifescience link say 50% or half tested positive for antibodies?

What I read suggested a much lower rate of infection among test subjects:

first 5 571 diagnosed tests have yielded 48 positive samples

As of March 25th, 11 727 individuals have been tested by deCODE or the University Hospital of Iceland and around 737 people have been diagnosed with COVID-19

Guy
Guy
Apr 14, 2020 8:10 PM
Reply to  Alex

Feels like you don’t want to understand this data? It took 10 seconds on Google to find more detail on the testing in Iceland and Vo in Italy which confirms that half of people with antibodies are asymptotic.
https://www.zmescience.com/medicine/iceland-testing-covid-19-0523/

Alex
Alex
Apr 14, 2020 8:16 PM
Reply to  Guy

What you wrote in your initial comment implies something very different!

You wrote: “Iceland has tested its population for antibodies and found that half of the people have been infected. ”

This sure sounds like half of the people tested or the population has had the virus at one time.
This is from your most recent link:

“These results are also indicated by a testing survey carried on an entire Italian town of Vo (population 3,300), where the results showed that more than 50% of all cases are asymptomatic.”

This means that half of the positive cases do not show symptoms.

“The whole population of the village was tested, and 3% of the residents tested positive.”

3% is a far cry from 50%!!!!

Guy
Guy
Apr 14, 2020 10:00 PM
Reply to  Alex

Agreed. Having re-read the articles, it is half of the cases are asymptotic, not half of the population. Misleading headline. I await the actual data from wide antibody testing.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:21 AM
Reply to  Guy

“Agreed. Having re-read the articles, it is half of the cases are asymptotic, not half of the population. Misleading headline. I await the actual data from wide antibody testing.”

Good admission. Little culpability, though, given the reverse reification of a putative panic being stoked by this online publication on the basis of a predetermined, prior-determinant mindset. Lulls many into like-mindlessness.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:06 AM
Reply to  Guy

“Iceland has tested its population for antibodies and found that half of the people have been infected.”

‘Iceland’ has so-far tested about 10% of its population using random selection from the telephone directory. It’s an OK approximation to a true random selection from a specified population for most purposes but ‘for most purposes’ is about as far as that ‘OK’ goes. Furthermore, from that point onwards, the sample is self-selected. Those contacted have asked to attend a clinic for testing and those that wanted to have.

But don’t worry about it, partially supported opinion or patchy evidence is the preferred currency hereabouts, as this series is not about COVID-19, it is about the–IMO justified except on a practical bricks in the walls timeline–mounting but not yet provable paranoia of the local denizens that detailed plans for a 1984-like panopticon-surveilled and technology (including biotechnology) fuelled desecration of humanity is about to be sprung under the cover of the current pandemic, whatever that pandemic’s cause, actual nature or final outcome.

That and an armageddon of a collision between the new, footloose, overpriviledged children of capitalism’s contempt for any society except the facile society of the ‘free’ self-indulgent self on one hand and, on the other, the identity-disregarding constraints of a physical world that engenders amongst the former an overwhelming epidemic of snit-fuelled foot stamping, gargantuan outbursts of magical thinking and their inevitable complement of resentful assertion, along with so many lips chapped from all their service to the economic disaster being inflicted on the poor, innocent and defenceless (however objective that perception is) that there are not enough sticks of tamper-proofed balm in the known universe to meet the really really needs of more than a tiny fraction of them.

Bunyip Bluegum
Bunyip Bluegum
Apr 16, 2020 11:39 AM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

I’m not a statistician, but 10% of the population is a pretty big sample. I think the data from Iceland is about the strongest we have at the moment, given it is such a large sample and not distorted by being made up only of those presenting to hospital with symptoms.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 7:46 AM

Thanks for the excellent report!

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 13, 2020 12:00 AM

My last post tonight but a worthy one!

The latest fully updated Covid-19 report from Swiss Propaganda Research. It may have been posted elsewhere but the more coverage it gets, the better.

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:01 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Item # 12 needs adjustment. They ‘were’ resisting suppression. I don’t exactly where they stand now, but they announced that the population’s days of freedom were over. Of course, they didn’t put it that way. (James Corbett reports from Japan where he lives. He’s covered this subject.) Virologist Guilio Tarro seems to be recommending that increased surveilling of people, including tracking them with their smart phones (which it’s my intention to get rid of) is a good idea. I have some issues with that. He recommends doing it like South Korea (a police State) did it.

What a great resource the SPR site is!

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:37 PM

To those wondering why some of us are sceptical about the pressures that we are told that the NHS is under … a brief anecdote.

I saw my neighbour this morning. She is a nurse at Wrexham Maelor hospital (one of the biggest, if not the biggest, hospital in North Wales). She told me how much she was looking forward to this week because she’s on holiday until 18 April. I said nothing.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:30 PM
Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 13, 2020 12:05 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Excellent article. It should be noted that Ferguson screwed up in 2001 with Foot and Mouth, and again in 2009 with Swine Flu.

This article from Wikipedia (it’s not too bad – lots of reputable sources) enables one to make a comparison with the, arguably, measured global response to 2009 Swine Flu with the mad hysteria that’s happening today.

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 13, 2020 12:10 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench
Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:22 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

John argues his position eloquently. One statement he makes, namely “And as I have previously argued, the way we are recording causes of death in terms of respiratory infection is different in this epidemic from any previous one, meaning that our observation and recording of Covid-19 deaths is more comprehensive and therefore potentially more alarming,” caught my eye. I would perhaps have used the word “generous” instead of “comprehensive.” To the average reader, ‘comprehensive connotes something positive. Utilizing – talk about novel! – the practice of presumption (assuming or guessing) in issuing death certificates is not a positive development.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:31 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

John also writes that “It is for ministers, not scientists, to decide whether, in the light of changing evidence and understanding, our response to the virus is proportionate – and how to take us forward.” But that’s simplistic if, in fact, ministers (governments) are taking their marching orders from the Transnational Capitalist Class (TCC), as Peter Phillips and others have demonstrated they do. See my April 12 blog post on A Yappy Trade Barrier for a couple of excerpts from Peter and William Robinson (in his Introduction) looking at the problem of the TCC.

Covid 19 – As The TCC Ordered: The Global Police State / https://arrby.wordpress.com/2020/04/12/covid-19-as-the-tcc-ordered-the-global-police-state/

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:07 PM

Another doctor (Eric Nepute) speaks out about covid-19.

https://www.facebook.com/drericnepute/videos/212203320055065/

Epic video.

(And before posting disparaging remarks, realize that in 80% of this video he is saying the exact same things offG is saying. Try to watch more than the first 5 minutes.)

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:34 AM
Reply to  jim

Facebook no like. All gone.

Pieter Vermeulen
Pieter Vermeulen
Apr 12, 2020 3:17 PM

The Real Science of Germs

Do Viruses Cause Disease?

Dr. Andrew Kaufman:

“I think there are two significant things about how they train doctors, at least in the United States. One thing is that they have told us, as medical students, right from day one that 50% of what they were going to teach us about medicine is going to turn out to be false in five years. That’s a pretty bold statement. People interpreted it as meaning that there’s gonna be better and better treatments and it’s going to improve, but that’s not really what they meant.

Kary Banks Mullis was the first person in the ’80s I heard talking about the questionable origin and scientific evidence for HIV. I immediately did some further investigation going back to my medical training. Most published research findings are false and I think that’s really what they were talking about when they taught us about different diseases, including infectious diseases and that 50% of what they were going to teach us about medicine is going to turn out to be false in five years from that moment. They told us what caused the disease, but they never presented the evidence of how that was discovered. They just said basically that it was a fact and all of the other knowledge that we were taught was built on those fundamental principles that we never investigated the scientific basis for. Primary scientific evidence to show what the exact causes of illness are is such a brilliant way to approach this. If there isn’t any evidence, then it would crumble down the whole body of knowledge, because if it’s built upon a false foundation, it cannot stay erect.

In 1918 (four years after the harsh conditions of WW-I), during the period of the Spanish “flu”, large doses of aspirin were causing people to have really serious respiratory problems. They taught us in medical school that aspirin can make, for example, asthma worse. The Spanish “flu” may have not been one illness but it may have been a combination of different illnesses and there’s really no evidence that there was an influenza virus at all. Viruses are very tiny particles which they only discovered once they’d invented the electron microscope and these nice big 3D moving animations that you see on the media are just computer-generated video sequences. That is not what you see down an electron microscope; the images are just black and white and you would certainly not see movement. The invention of the electron microscope by Max Knoll and Ernst Ruska at the Berlin Technische Hochschule in 1931 overcame the barrier to higher resolution that had been imposed by the limitations of visible light. No COVID-19 virus has actually ever been photographed or isolated so far and there is no proof to show that it’s actually invading cells destroying them. The primary scientific papers that prove this conclusively are absent.

COVID-19, as depicted in the media, is an exosome. Exosomes are beneficial messengers in our immune system that have been known for 30 years now and if you apply the power of language to any kind of particle you can observe using an electron microscope, this can greatly influence the way in which ‘scientific’ research is carried out (or not).”

James Hildreth, M.D., former professor at Johns Hopkins HIV Research Centre:”… the ‘virus’ is fully an exosome in every sense of the word.”

Kary Banks Mullis (December 28, 1944 – August 7, 2019) was an American biochemist. In recognition of his invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) technique, he shared the 1993 Nobel Prize in Chemistry with Michael Smith and was awarded the Japan Prize in the same year. Kary Banks Mullis:“The scientific papers to even proof the existence of an HIV-virus are not there.”

Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist and molecular biologist, doesn’t want to use the term ‘virus’ because he no longer believes in disease causing viruses. He is well-known worldwide for his early experiments with a virus-like object he found in marine algae, his early concerns about the HIV theory, and his recent court cases with the measles virus. When Lanka put up a monetary prize for someone who could prove the measles virus existed, a doctor came forwards with six classic measles papers, although stunningly, Lanka reports that the doctor didn’t feel he needed to read them. Lanka lost the first court case, but won on appeal.

Lanka is internationally mostly known as an “AIDS dissident” (and maybe “gentechnology dissident”) who has been questioning the very existence of “HIV” since 1994. In the past years, however, he stumbled over a breathtaking fact: Not even ONE of the (medically relevant) viruses has ever been isolated; there is no proof of their existence. Actually, Dr. Lanka already stated three years ago, in the almost “legendary” Zenger´s interview:

“So, for a long time I studied virology, from the end to the beginning, from the beginning to the end, to be absolutely sure that there was no such thing as HIV. And it was easy for me to be sure about this because I realized that the whole group of viruses to which HIV is said to belong, the retroviruses – as well as other viruses which are claimed to be very dangerous – in fact do not exist at all.”

He thoroughly read the literature on those “other viruses” again, and after he could still not find any paper which would provide the evidence, he encouraged people not to BELIEVE him but to ask the institutes and authorities themselves. This has actually eventuated, mostly initiated by mothers. The responses were revealing. In September 2001 the German book “Impfen – Völkermord im dritten Jahrtausend?” (Vaccination – Genocide in the third millennium?) by Stefan Lanka and Karl Krafeld was published in which they state that there is still no proof of any (medically relevant) virus.

Napoleon:“One day it will be discovered that you, physicians, are responsible for more deaths than all us generals put together …”

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 4:21 PM

“One day it will be discovered that you, physicians, are responsible for more deaths than all us generals put together…”

Interesting article here seems to fly in the face of the meme that all medics are lifesavers. I have every reason to believe that deaths attributable to medical error could rise even higher when inexperienced staff are let loose on ventilators.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 4:53 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

Most doctors are not evil psychopathic killers, most doctors mean well. The problem is that they have to follow orders and procedures, and if they don’t they get fired. If they speak out they get fired. The real problem is the medical establishment that is controlling things from above.

Hospital threatens staff with termination if they speak out about COVID-19 conditions in leaked memo

“A leaked memo from HCA Healthcare revealed that they aren’t afraid of firing nurses, doctors or techs even in the era of a coronavirus outbreak.

Business Insider acquired a leaked memo from the largest hospital system in the country, HCA Healthcare, reminding employees that they aren’t allowed to speak out on social media or talk to the media about anything.”

Doctors and Nurses Beware: Hospitals Are Watching Your Facebook

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 5:30 PM
Reply to  jim

Jim

Thanks for these comments. The primary point I was making was that as soon as figures are bandied around about how many critically patients have died (whether it be from Covid19, or anything else), the overall picture has to be viewed in the context of medical error being a possible contributory factor, if not the actual cause. I doubt that we’ll ever be told what the true numbers are. It has to be repeated that the article I linked to suggests that, in the USA, medical error is the third leading cause of death, only beaten by heart disease and cancer. Not only must it cast serious doubt on any official cause of death statistics but it must raise very serious questions about medical competence in some quarters, probably not just in the US.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 6:14 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

An example would be the incorrect use of the ventilators killing patients.

On the one hand you could say that these are medical errors.
On the other hand you could say that doctors and nurses are FORCED to follow certain procedures and protocols coming from up above.

My point is: don’t blame the doctors (who will be fired if they speak up), blame the medical establishment responsible for the procedures and protocols.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 6:45 PM
Reply to  jim

Thanks, Jim. Yep. I have posted a comment elsewhere that one NY IC doctor had stated in an interview for a Spectator article that patients were being placed on ventilators probably sooner than medical advice would recommend but because administrators were demanding it to reduce the risk of medical staff becoming infected.

beer
beer
Apr 12, 2020 8:55 PM
Reply to  JudyJ

I don’t know the details but I have heard that the hospital is paid $39k by the US government for a Covid-19 patient on a ventilator compared with $13k for a standard Covid-19 patient, so there might be a financial incentive.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:21 PM
Reply to  beer

Thanks, @beer

That’s right. I saw a Youtube video where a doctor explained how that worked and the financial incentive. I have looked at so many videos with ‘dissenting ‘ medical practitioners in the past few days that I cannot remember which one it was, but I have seen it.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 9:03 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

The Highwire is excellent. I don’t share Del’s politics, or Christianity, and I have some issues with some of the positions that the show has taken (not questioning the idea that the virus originated in Wuhan and not even acknowledging that some are looking at a possible 5G connection [having to do with 5G absorbing oxygen!]), but otherwise the show is excellent. There is a Highwire website and, as much as Del frets about being shut down on YouTube, he hasn’t said a thing about what he might do if that happens.

https://thehighwire.com/watch/

Kathy
Kathy
Apr 13, 2020 5:52 PM
Reply to  Arby

Another thing that seems intriguing is how many of the UK.hospitals that are reported as having lots of cases of [Covid 19]. Also seem to be ones which have been found negligent previously. Over years the NHS have run a campaign of bullying marginalizing and or sacking staff who have called out bad practice and those staff trying to expose scandals. I wonder what happens when you are left with less competent but more fearful and compliant staff. would they notice or be prepared to stand up against the use of ventilators being used negligently. Or dare report deaths being recorded wrongly. Just a thought.

Arby
Arby
Apr 14, 2020 8:05 AM
Reply to  Kathy

Exactly!

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Apr 15, 2020 5:53 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

“…the article I linked to suggests that, in the USA, medical error is the third leading cause of death, only beaten by heart disease and cancer.”

Even clerical error in simple data entry doesn’t approach that. I suspect it could be halved and may even then still be high, with subsequent hindsight by superiors contributing a significant proportion and understandable defensive hubris contributing a lot as well. It cannot be easy to reconcile expected omnipotence and frequent patient dependence with actual profession-wide ignorance in the context of normal human empathy. 30% is about right for the overall number of tteatments, whether resulting in death or not, that are either ineffective or positively iatrogenic.

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:58 AM
Reply to  jim

Excellent point and good links. I’ll use them in the covid 19 blog post I’m working on right now, along with the John Lee article that Judy links to. An additional point and perhaps some talking points for us: James Corbett looks at the ‘spontaneous’ balcony applause for nurses that spread throughout major cities all around the world and draws some useful conclusions about that, noting the similarities to the glorification of soldiers in the war on terror that led right into… the Patriot Act. Nurses are the new war heroes (as are bus drivers etc, etc). And when those war hero nurses are asked to give you that vaccine that you don’t want…

I’ve also written a number of blog posts about Progressives and a topic that I hammer on, because it’s fundamental, is FUNDERS. More generally, factor in paycheques. We live in a (twisted) money system. We can talk about the motives of different individuals and groups and analyze their personalities and talk about social psychology until the cows come home (and that’s all fine and dandy), but if we forget that the paycheque is a big factor, then our people’s science is no good. It’s a money system and, while it shouldn’t be the case, money in this system of things means life. If you want people to do certain things (perhaps not for their benefit but for yours), and you possess power (and in a cashless society, which is on the horizon, people’s money), then you can tell those people that if they want to be able to get paid for their work, or buy food or pay rent, then they have to obey you or they will not be able to do those things. If you don’t obey us then you will not be able to do this or that. You will have to survive without those necessities (die).

Here’s an excerpt from that excellent Corbett Report show: “Insidious Engineered Adoration” / https://www.bitchute.com/video/JIR8OvizdsKg/

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 12:02 PM
Reply to  Arby

I can’t link to the articles (excluding John Lee’s) on my blog since they present the pandemic as being real, as in the sense of world-ending. The point about censorship in the two articles linked to above is good and one that I’ll pass on of course. But I won’t add to the harmful panic and I won’t reward those who help spread it.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 4:50 PM

Indeed.
‘Don’t let truth get in the way of a good story’.
Without a payoff no one would buy it or sell it.
But once a story is used as a foundation from which to build industries and controls it is locked into a ‘too big to fail’.

Cover stories to escape feared consequence, became the protection racket.
This also operates for the ‘patient’ seeking to get rid of consequences of imbalance or toxicity without addressing their own core responsibilities.

There’s a lot of various resources on whale.to
I much appreciate having just read Fear of the Invisible – a very readable and well researched account that takes in vaccine background – and the unfolding HIV fraud – but is extremely relevant to today.

Dee
Dee
Apr 12, 2020 9:18 PM

Where can I find this article?

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 8:41 AM

Interesting! John Rappoport has fairly convinced me that the swine flu didn’t exist. (And I’m still open to being corrected on that.) But he comes at it not as a scientist but a dogged investigator. His interview with Sharyl Attkisson, who was a tv reporter who blew the whistle on the WHO’s (I believe it was) fakery surrounding numbers of people infected with swine flu is a must read. She left network tv of course. I’m not endorsing Sharyl Attkisson. I’m just pointing out that, indeed, there’s room for questions, even big ones, especially give the issues with ‘experts’ that John Lee (few posts above) outlines.

Arby
Arby
May 6, 2020 12:35 AM

There’s a YouTube video in which Stefan Lanka discusses this. I can no longer download ‘any’ YouTube videos. I will, if it’s not gone by the time I get around to it, simply use my camera to video record the video. But does anyone know of videos with Stefan Lanka on other sites? I’m on Bitchute, but it’s search feature is useless. Thanks.

Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
Apr 12, 2020 2:44 PM

Boris Johnson – resurrected on Easter Sunday …
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52262012

MG

Nikolay
Nikolay
Apr 12, 2020 2:12 PM

Australia is finally beginning to wake up

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 4:49 PM
Reply to  Nikolay

Good video. But digressing slightly, I was intrigued by the video at about 4 minutes 30 seconds. It shows patients being wheeled along an external hospital walkway. Seemed a bit odd that there are clear temporary ‘triage’ signs pointing to the left entrance yet we see a trolley being wheeled that way and then the same trolley wheeled back in the other direction; and another trolley being wheeled to the right as well. Are we supposed to deduce that, once triaged, the only access to wards or doctors is along a narrow outside walkway alongside arriving ambulance drop offs and weaving in and out of trolleys parked up on the walkway, by staff wearing surgical gowns and masks in less than clean surroundings?
May be…or may be some of @Petra’s scepticism is catching. 😀

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:42 AM
Reply to  Nikolay

SkyNews-Murdochite fascism and fanatic, racist, warmongering, Sinophobia. What a source!

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 12, 2020 1:53 PM

Huge news: Despite the German CDC’s formal recommendation to pathologists not to examine post-mortem alleged covid-19 dead, Professor Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine in Hamburg, did just this: He examined them all. He says that understanding how patients died gives important insights for the treatment of the sick.

He found that all of them had severe underlying diseases, though some didn’t know. For them the virus has only been the last straw. About 20% of the examined died of causes that are completely unrelated to the virus. Püschel says that we don’t need to be scared to death. “This is an infectious disease like the many we have known for years. We have had them in the past. We will have them in the future. When it comes to the risk the virus poses on the individual there is nothing special.”

“This virus influences our lives in a completely excessive way [which] is disproportionate to the danger posed by the virus… [likewise] the astronomical economic damage now being caused is not commensurate with the danger posed by the virus. I am convinced that the corona mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality.” He states that in Hamburg for example, “not a single person who was not previously ill had died of the virus: all those we have examined so far had cancer, a chronic lung disease, were heavy smokers or severely obese, suffered from diabetes or had a cardiovascular disease. The virus was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. Covid-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection.”

pressreader.com/germany/hamburger-morgenpost

Related Youtube video with the aforementioned professor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlIDG_8wfY8&
…..

[German CDC counts everyone who died with the virus as covid-19 death.]

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 12, 2020 1:55 PM

Two German organizations of pathologists have demanded that as many as possible of those who died of covid-19 are examined postmortem in order to understand the disease better. They hope that this will help to find treatment options. They thus object to the formal recommendation of German Robert Koch Institute to not examine covid-19 deaths.

https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/111792/COVID-19-Pathologen-fuer-moeglichst-zahlreiche-Obduktionen

Arby
Arby
Apr 13, 2020 9:09 AM

In that article it is noted that one of the objections of the Robert Koch Inst is that opening up a dead body might release the virus via aerosol, whereas I just read on the SPR website (it’s comprehensive coronavirus fact sheet), that there is research showing that the virus is not going to be spread via aerosols.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 3:02 PM

I’ve been reading about health and medicine (mainly from what you might call an “alternative” point of view, but not wholly so), for decades now, and in some of my reading, I’ve gathered that non-forensic autopsies/post-mortems have become much less common in modern times than they once were. Apart from anything else, they were a great learning exercise for the medical profession, who have lost out by their lack, especially young doctors coming into the profession.

I presume that a combination of modern technology, and the false modern feeling that “we now know everything there is to know about the body”, meant that they thought they could do as well, or better by tests, MRIs, X-rays or better, without the gory business of an autopsy.

Possibly Professor Püschel’s work may reverse this trend.

Tea
Tea
Apr 13, 2020 1:18 AM

“not to examine”

Sounds very unscientific.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 1:37 PM

Only indirectly relevant, but I mention it because I also wrote in another post about improving the health of the nation (UK, I mean): when looking to get a better feel of death rates, and how they have varied over time, I came across this graph:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate

It shows very clearly that the death rate, in terms of deaths per thousand, was going down sharply from 1979, when it was about 11.8 until 2013, when it was about 9.0.

(It’s rather embarrassing to me, a confirmed anti-Thatcherite, to admit that life expectancy started to improve under Thatcher, but there it is; I’ll leave that for someone else to analyse).

However, after 2013, it turned sharply up again, so it’s now about 9.4. That does not sound much, but looking on the graph, there is a clear upward trend, which according to the UN is set to continue (no idea what that’s based on though).

I am tempted to conclude that the reversal of the previously improving trend is because of cuts imposed first by the 2010 Coalition, and then by the majority Tory government, affecting public services but also the incomes of people at the lower end of the scale. Poverty and poor health are often linked, historically.
I could be wrong, of course.

However, here is Danny Dorling writing about it in the New Statesman:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/07/mortality-rates-are-rising-uk-and-everyone-ignoring-it

“4 JULY 2019
Mortality rates are rising in the UK – and everyone is ignoring it”

[Danny Dorling, Halford Mackinder Professor of Geography, University of Oxford.]

Warnings for the future
Something is going very wrong. And whatever is going on is unique to the UK because in no other European country have there been overall falls in life expectancy that look at all like this. The figures for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are almost certainly as bad as England, but no one has as yet bothered to study them in any detail – let alone tried to work out where they are heading.

Eric McCoo
Eric McCoo
Apr 12, 2020 1:19 PM

This is government guru Neil Ferguson predicting 200 million bird flu deaths worldwide. Actual deaths worldwide were 455.

‘Last month Neil Ferguson, a professor of mathematical biology at Imperial College London, told Guardian Unlimited that up to 200 million people could be killed.

“Around 40 million people died in 1918 Spanish flu outbreak,” said Prof Ferguson. “There are six times more people on the planet now so you could scale it up to around 200 million people probably.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/30/birdflu.jamessturcke

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 2:55 PM
Reply to  Eric McCoo

Interestingly, while there have been some attempts to liken the current panicdemic to the 1918 so-called Spanish Flu, by and large they don’t seem to have caught on all that well.

There are lots of indications that Spanish Flu was not all it seemed, and someone posted some very interesting links on Off-G a week or two ago. (I don’t just mean the misleading name – there is much more to it than that). I will have to dig out the links.
(Interestingly my newish Huawei phone wouldn’t let me link to some of them; it was claiming they were “adult” sites, and my phone was not set to allow me to visit adult sites!).

Some day, when the current madness has passed, I hope there will be time to revisit “Spanish Flu” again properly, and see what genuine lessons can be learned from it, as well as from our present situation.

Portonchok
Portonchok
Apr 12, 2020 12:51 PM

It’s way too easy to get dragged down by the bastards, humour is the best way to help us cope and help us get out of it:

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmUXntGlqFI&w=1052&h=592%5D

Nikolay
Nikolay
Apr 12, 2020 11:54 AM

another wonderful article, which explains why the current panic can actually kill more people than the virus

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/06/covid-with-of-or-because-of/#comments

TFS
TFS
Apr 12, 2020 10:55 AM

In all the chicanery going on across the pond with the counting of Covid victims, I wonder if their figures are also skewered because they are know to more dependent on prescription drugs?

Jason Hitchcock
Jason Hitchcock
Apr 12, 2020 9:32 AM

As anyone with half a brain knows, this is nothing to do with a physical sickness and much to do about a control state..either economically or socially ….perhaps both or more?

axisofoil
axisofoil
Apr 12, 2020 3:42 AM
Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Apr 12, 2020 3:11 AM

Nurses are so busy they are flooding TikTok with clips of their cringeworthy dance routines, https://twitter.com/i/status/1248211031744303104
Some useful information in the reaction, too. https://twitter.com/i/status/1248697036112723969

Ken
Ken
Apr 12, 2020 2:24 AM

Curiously everything they are doing stops the unnecessary use of oil….

Ken
Ken
Apr 12, 2020 2:21 AM

What is the point to all this crap? I mean anyone with a functioning brain knows coronavirus is no more deadly than a common cold so wtf is going on?

Shardlake
Shardlake
Apr 12, 2020 8:34 AM
Reply to  Ken

Western economies have been in dire straits for some considerable time now. Make no mistake this is a misrepresented pandemic and it comes at a convenient time as the bubble was about to burst on those who were already financially gaining so naturally they wish to maintain the status quo. The way this has been done has been to create the myth that this Covid virus is grossly more deadlier than the ‘flu is what it is : purely and simply a myth.

Add to this our health and social services systems have been under continual bombardment for over a decade which has left those services unable to function like they should and as a consequence of the financial cuts ruthlessly applied to them through nothing more than an ideological and political choice.

Our country will be left fiscally depleted for the next decade, or even longer, so austerity measures can continue to be imposed on the poorest and weakest in our society to the tune of at least £200 bn. by the time we see this declared finished. When this economically induced panic is deemed ‘over’ there will be a reckoning to be paid in higher taxes by those who can least afford it, but also expect the same people who gained from austerity during the last decade to continue where they left off; that’s the name of the game.

The insurance industry is set to make billions of pounds extra in profits as the nation reduces the usage of vehicles through the lockdown measures, as less usage radiates to less accidents and therefore less payouts resulting in more revenue to be paid to its executives and shareholders.

The coronavirus and its attendant miseries will be used to retain control in the hands of unseen and unheard-of individuals who will use and instruct governments to prosecute conflict in their own financial interests, or even against their own citizens. Wars were never used to promote national pride, they have always had their origins in commerce, materialism and greed. Armed forces who perish in such conflicts do not die for their king and country, they die for the anonymous individuals who pull the strings of power.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 2:21 AM

Because I was visiting France a few weeks ago, and worried about being stranded there, I’ve been paying more attention than usual to the website FlightRadar24.com

I’ve mostly been looking at flights to and from particular airports, but it also has a blog, which I’d not paid attention to until today. This article is quite interesting and relevant:

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/learning-from-the-curve-chinese-aviation-may-offer-early-signs-of-a-covid-19-recovery/

Flightradar24 Note: Airlines and governments have reacted to the spread of COVID-19 with varying speed and levels of restrictions. With Flightradar24 data, ICF examined flights in China, Europe, and the United States to see what lessons can be learned about the decline in air traffic. Their results below offer a sliver of hope—or cautionary tale—for what comes next

Sam
Sam
Apr 12, 2020 2:15 AM

Some data from Scandinavia:

A Danish study looking for antibodies in blood donors concludes that the mortality rate is about 0.16.

In Sweden a hospital has been testing all pregnant women admitted for childbirth for SARS-CoV-2. So far the rate of infection has been 7%. If that were extrapolated to the Swedish population of 10.23 million with 887 Covid-19 deaths the mortality rate would be about 0.12.

Sam
Sam
Apr 12, 2020 2:24 AM
Reply to  Sam

That 7% is obviously CURRENT infections, too, so it should understate the rate of infection (present and past) and the true mortality rate could be lower.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Apr 12, 2020 2:14 AM

RINSE AND REPEAT

I paid little attention to the alleged 2003 SARS pandemic but it is quite astounding how similar it is to the alleged COVID-19 pandemic. Obviously, it acted as preparation for COVID-19, 17 years later. This is an amusing article, “Cough and Awe”, written by UK health writer, Steven Ransom.

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/sars-campaign-for-truth.html

1of7billion
1of7billion
Apr 12, 2020 1:14 AM

Firstly, I want to thank the off-G for heroically keeping the “flag of truth” flying in the face of a world gone very seriously mad.

I mean, I should quality that statement, in the sense, I think the world was already pretty mad – I mean the MSM, politicians, most of the scientists and academics in general, and the proportion of the public who believed any of the foregoing list very much – a few weeks ago before all this started, but now we’ve really had it confirmed.

Most of these people are for the moment at least stark raving bonkers and totally impervious to reason and truth.

As to the stats above, they have been approximately what I have been calculating all along from data that was available here and there for quite a while, but I just am staggered how the scientific and statistical community and all these “human rights” groups have all let us down, but the scientists in particular for not daring to use their training and skill in sufficient numbers to dispute these so called “facts.”

I mean, it is really this simple in my view.

The official figures for the UK at present are roughly 80,000 infected and 335,000 tests and 10,000 deaths (I mean it’s probably about 2,000 really due to covid-19) but anyway though that looks superficially like a shocking death rate of about 1 in 8 or 12.5%, the real truth is what we are seeing is an infection rate of 80,000 / 335,000 which is about 23.8%.

I’ve been carrying this exercise out for quite some time, and the UK rate has hovered around 25% testing positive for about 2 weeks or more (it was much harder to find testing rates before, and I still only know of this one site offhand that is showing them)

https://corona.help/

Other countries are showing similar proportions and France is showing as high as bout 38% testing positive.

This frankly means in most or all of the big Western nations MILLIONS have got this thing and probably have had for a long time, so it’s probably 12-15 million at least in the UK, i.e. about 25% who have got it or have had it and recovered already, which is in line with the Oxford University study.

So then we get a mortality rate of 10,000 dead out of 12-15 million infected, which is minuscule, in the same ball park as a seasonal flu, and let’s be generous (to the propagandists I mean) and use only 12 million infected, which gives us a fatality rate of 0.08%, about 1 in 1200 deaths of infected persons, which once again is typical of seasonal flu, which is pretty much the same as the Japanese study or Dr Ioannidas Stanford figure.

I think it’s worth looking at the following chart (the very top one) to see the statistical blundering that has caused the gross error in our so called scientists, which in any case, even an averagely educated politician should have been able to spot.

https://epidemic-stats.com/coronavirus/uk

The orange line is the infected number and the red/maroon line is deaths.

Note how the orange list in going up exponentially, i.e. doubling or whatever every day, but the line the propagandists *claimed* would be going up exponentially, the red/maroon deaths line is not, it’s a fairly linear one – i.e. a pretty steady death rate every day.

The point being, the confirmed infection rate is thus going though the roof but the death rate isn’t, simply because it’s only now they are starting to do enough testing, so that the truth that this thing is only killing a very small proportion of those who have it is starting to become clear.

So clear hopefully, that even the dullards who are responsible for this mess will soon start seeing the truth. Though I’m not betting on it any time soon.

But I have got some good news for anyone reading this.

Firstly, the guv has started relaxing restrictions on the parks, and I think this is happening because they know the weather is picking up, and they are going to have serious problems keeping people inside, and the last thing they want to do (they are gladly hopefully not quite this stupid) is have any riots anywhere, for fear that they will then start everywhere.

So in reality, the lockdown is already crumbling, but they are just pretending it isn’t, and probably just trying to make a few examples of people here and there, to make out they intend to enforce it, whereas in reality I think they frankly don’t dare (unless they really are going to call in the troops and start shooting their own people, which I don’t think is on the cards).

Because we saw what happened the last time we had riots, and the police just stood by most of the time and let it happen. As they’d have either had to mow down all the looters with automatic weapons or without that kind of firepower a lot of them likely would have got murdered, by bear in mind quite a lot of people who may even have been carrying firearms themselves, as well as knives.

So really, the lockdown is crumbling already, and I don’t really think Boris Johnson fresh out of hospital wants mass rioting all over the country on his hands, if he tries to get tough and prevent it.

The other good news is China has officially declared the lockdown in Wuhan (the main seat of infection) over, and bear in mind this is a region of 11 million people, so more than the population of several smaller European countries such as Norway (only 5 million).

Which frankly I think shows the fact this was pretty much a hoax to begin with – that remains my belief – that China hoaxed the Western world successfully, in order to damage and try to get rid of President Trump, by causing him to take actions that would result in economic collapse, which they may well have succeeded in.

So my own technique of predicting what this government would do was to watch what they were doing in other countries first, and President Trump is also floating 1 May to end the lockdown somebody said so no doubt with their usually incredible originality the British and other nations will likely follow suit.

Because I think now Boris has “come round” he’s going to start getting very worried about public order, especially if the weather stays sunny, which is clearly motivating an incredible number of British people to go out.

So my money is on an easing of the lockdown starting in the next 2 or 3 weeks – he will likely do it at the very first excuse.

I’d simply point out, that in fact, for we and the people at the off-G who have resisted the propaganda, though we may be largely ignored for now, it might actually be at that time, when the lockdown ceases and the “inquest” beings, that we can then make an effective contribution, because there has got to be a very big inquiry that brings out the truth about what has been done and why, if only to make sure they can never pull this stunt again.

I’d like a very basic question asked – can we really control any virus?

Which when the numbers who likely really have this thing come out – 25% or more of the population probably will make further “social distancing measures” look totally ridiculous.

Bear in mind 37 million are currently HIV positive and nearly a million die every year of it, and not only have the authorities therefore failed to stop the spread of it, they’ve also not developed a vaccine for it since it first appeard in 1981 – think, that’s nearly 40 years!

And as to controlling covid-19, unless they never reopen the pubs and clubs, do they really think that when that happens they are going to be able to stop men and women putting their hands on each other, as has been the typical behaviour of humans for about a million years (I mean, since there were humans)?

No law is *ever* going to stop that.

I mean, I know a lot of people here think it’s “New World Order” stuff but although I am well aware of the growing tyranny of surveillance and restriction of free speech and so on in general, I don’t think this particular episode was anything but Laurel and Hardy, or you might rephrase that as “Hancock and Johnson” (as they have roughly the same respective shapes) – so just another fine mess.

And as I’ve said before, I don’t think either Trump nor Johnson wanted to take these measures but were bullied into it by political opponents in both the opposition parties and the media, who wanted to use what seemed to them a golden opportunity to get rid of both these men – Johnson hated for sponsoring Brexit, and Trump for populism and defeating Hilary Clinton respectively.

Bear in mind Hilary Clinton would have been America’s first ever woman president, that’s how massive it was, so it’s hardly surprising the PC crowd have been incandescent ever since, trying to bring Trump down with any means imaginable however dishonest and dirty.

So a lot of people are going to stand trial after this mess, in all kinds of ways, so it will be interesting what they are going to say in their defense, and that may be the time also when perhaps the work we’ve done here and elswhere investigating the truth of the matter, will make us well qualified to point out the failings and prevent this becoming just another cover-up and the despots getting away with it once again.

For once enough of the public see that this was neither necessary or wise, if they really do lose their jobs and businesses in large numbers, there is really going to be “hell to pay”, the public are not going to easily forgive this.

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
Apr 12, 2020 1:52 AM
Reply to  1of7billion

A couple of points 1 of 7.
A hoax by the Chinese doesn’t make sense, because Trump is no better or worse than any of the other corporate puppets. He shoots from his mouth, but most of the time he just does what he’s told/advised.
If the psychopaths want war, he’ll do his duty as the Emperor of the Empire.
The MSM are up to their necks in this bullshit. I can’t see them backing down anytime soon. They get their jollies with drama like this.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 2:15 AM
Reply to  1of7billion

I’d like a very basic question asked – can we really control any virus?

No, of course not.

The only sensible thing to do, although it’s a long-term strategy, is to genuinely improve the health of the nation.

In very broad terms this means improving nutrition and removing pollution.

One reason for poor nutrition is lack of income, so we have to bring people on low incomes up to higher incomes (in a way that doesn’t provoke inflation).

Then we have to somehow encourage people to find out what is really good nutrition, and of course, there is no one answer, but people have to have good choices. A lot of current nutritional information is misleading, and that will not be an easy problem to solve.

About 3/4 of what is on sale in supermarkets is unhealthy crap, and it we stopped it being sold overnight, supermarkets and food suppliers would go bankrupt.

And probably more than about 3/4 of pharmaceutical products are useless or worse than useless and should be banned. But then most of Big Pharma would go bust. Not a totally bad idea, but it needs to be done in a controlled manner. There should remain a capability of producing good quality generics and vitamins and mineral supplements.

This would probably lead to many conventional doctors becoming redundant, but hopefully, the best of them could retrain to become holistic naturopaths, or other holistic practitioners.
The aim would be for the NHS to evolve into a Health service, and not the Illness service that it is now.

The founders of the NHS naively believed that over time, the people of the UK would get healther (thanks to the NHS) and that it would need fewer resources over time, not more.
Yes, they were a bit naive, but actually, they had the right idea, in principle.

To go back to the original question: No, we cannot control any virus, but if we have a population that is full of people with a sound immune system, then they will resist any virus thrown at them.

And people don’t have “compromised immune systems” for no good reason. In many cases, it’s because of previous or ongoing medical treatment.

Jeni
Jeni
Apr 12, 2020 8:25 AM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Thank you Mike Ellwood, your comment gets down to the real issues regarding health and wellness and why we don’t get sick unless our bodies feel that it’s necessary to deal with certain toxins and imbalances.

If everyone got smart about wellness then the medical industry would indeed have to rethink and about time too.

We have been indoctrinated with way too much garbage from the medical and pharmaceutical industries, except of course by certain brave souls who would oppose the current drift of hoaxes and scams.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 10:29 AM
Reply to  Jeni

Just to note in this little health thread, toxicity is the other side of nutrition – and toxicity can and does produce conditions assigned as infectious disease.

Because our body is within our field of awareness and responsive to our thought and experience, it is also sustained or toxified by the use to which our mind is put as the purpose we accept and align in.

A sense of self-conflict is a lack of wholeness – and a lack of health (fear of loss) seeking OUTSIDE itself, can only reinforce its starting point.

For this reason trying to prop us a conflicted foundation with externals leads exactly to the world we suffer by unconscious exchange of false premises in need of reinforcement – and therefore control.

The idea of ‘fixing’ a broken system has developed All the king’s horses and all the king’s men engaging in futility as a ‘War on Truth’ but presented as the mind-frame of ‘War on the demonised and falsely flagged cause’. For without such ‘war’ self-seperating isolation from the Field of Awareness – which is Light and Communication of being – would be over – or rather – awakened from in the recognition that self-isolation was never true – but had all the truth and power we gave it – who are one with truth.

Locking down in a limiting and limited frame of self isolating separation in conflict that drives the seeking of control as the basis of life.
The healing of a false foundation is in looking on it as it is, and recognising it is not life – FROM the always already Communication Of Life that is you are.

All genetically coded communication and instruction runs within the unique correspondence of its ‘operating system’. There are commonalities that connect all living things but as unique expressions of the whole in the many and the many in the whole. Hierarchy of context is not that of control. We stand under life because we receive it. Communication is a giving and receiving both. Maintaining the flow and integrity of the channel is the balancing of inner and outer as one.

The attempt to Do our being is getting in our own way, and the replacement of communioned qualities of being with behaviours by which to judge and be judged.
The mind of judgement substituting for the heart of discernment. A self-separating control – and subjection, for the navigating of the balance points of all that you are.

This post continues on :

https://willingness-to-listen.blogspot.com/2020/04/life-is-communication.html

Jean Wilson
Jean Wilson
Apr 12, 2020 9:48 PM
Reply to  binra

There is no such thing as a virus, as numerous posters here have pointed out. The so-called covid is an exosome, beneficial, as it helps rid the body of toxins. There is no contagion at all. But rest assured, the string-pullers will try this trick again in order to impose their 4th industrial revolution upon us, and most of the sheeple will fall for it again. then, the compulsory vaccine plus microchip.

1984 has begun, with barely a wimper of protest so far.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 11:11 PM
Reply to  Jean Wilson

Well you certainly know how to preach to the choir.
I would love you to become more coherent in your message because there is a recognition that sets us free of powerlessness under fear when we recognise how agency is false flagged onto natural and functional communication so as to evade responsibility for the use to which we put our mind.

As one of your numerous posters I have to say that ‘pointing out’ does not establish as fact. I can only point to another way of seeing and interpreting that I find coherent and freeing. Reader can then follow their own questioning and find our for themselves.

Fear works contagion and this is most evident as millions of terrified people taken past their tipping point to demand the powerlessness of dictatorship and subjection.

Orwell originally called his book, 1948.

The shift from covert to overt control is a walk in because all the bases were already captured. Appeal to reason has no one listening able to move, nor appeal to humanity, compassion or moral integrity. Consciousness is being shut down. Do you regard sheeple as a derogatory judgement by the smugly superior? Have you caught the disease of elitism?

Our science is largely biased and subverted to a corp-gov agenda.
Virology is not just where the money is, but where the back door of pretext by which to shut down (crash) the already bust global economy and freeze a locked down and fragmented population while bringing in a completely new order. Much much more systematically integrated to centrally orchestrated control than most can imagine – but yet has been imagined planned for and implemented.

Jeni
Jeni
Apr 13, 2020 6:36 AM
Reply to  binra

It’s very hard to comprehend your message binra…your post appears as waffle without any cogent points…do you mind setting out an argument that might be understood please?

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 8:05 PM
Reply to  Jeni

I don’t believe you.

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 2:24 AM
Reply to  1of7billion

Good commentary 1of7. Though I agree with Fair dinkum that the Chinese are not the culprits here. I seriously doubt that the Chinese control BBC and Sky News, the main perpetrators.

I also don’t believe most of the scientists have failed us. Some have, notably those that are politically -funded/-motivated. But many – examples abound on this website – have tried to speak out. They simply don’t get the proper platform. Again, fingers point to MSM.

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate
Apr 12, 2020 12:17 AM

would say that this Corap has the potential to be thousands of times more dangerous than the Flu – for example – Mandatory Vaccinations, Civil War, 5G ( wireless technology) , Medical Care, Poverty, Famine, Kali Yuga etc etc….etc.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 2:58 PM
Reply to  Doctortrinate

An untapped potential remains a latency that doesn’t have to be brought into expression.

Death is another word for change from an invested identity in changing forms.

By assigning power and meaning to death and destruction, (in fear of pain of loss), we self-isolate or withdraw and withhold from Life – which was never IN the forms so much as through them.
And lockdown in the drive to sustain and protect the life that sets its boundary conditions against an Infinite Potential, in which its sense of control OVER Life is rendered obsolete.

If conditions no longer support Life, then Life no longer unfold while they hold, or transforms to adapt.

The prevailing belief is that conditions determine responses, but while there are conditions to Life embodied, they are not coercive on us, but reflect deeper agreements of mutual alignment in creating the conditions through which life unfolds.

And so to consider that Consciousness pervades All That Is – will seem patently absurd to a meatbrain in its- body bag that is trained to self-identify exclusively under the conditioning of imposed, accepted and acquired rules, judgements and meanings – given to our world – that operate a programming that not only adapts – but generates and maintains the model through which we experience each other within a world of shared meaning.

The recognition of this is in the attempt to manually reprogram humanity by manipulating the ‘code’ on which we run – but this operates the same error of seeking only what the programming frames us in wanting; ie possession and control.

The undoing of a mindtrap is not to be effected by the mind or purpose that set it up and so the need is to release the fixation and allegiance to the negatively polarised attempt to control or fix perceived threat of chaos, and actively seek the realignment to an integrative perspective that paradoxically is already our true nature – but covered over with learned habits of choices set in conflict – that run on fear and persist conflict as necessary ‘salvation’ from infection by ideas and information that would undo the chosen or collapsed identity.

The thing with dire warnings is that for the most part they become propagation of the fear under illusion of doing something about it. This is how an identity runs within the conflict identity that effectively denies any free attention and awareness for what runs beneath the reactions we take as our self.

If we see these evils are already upon us – in the day thereof – as they come into the sphere of our own consciousness, relationships and responsibility, then we are in a starting place for a willingness to see and be shown the more of what we are as a spontaneous of free alignment that is also releasing what we are not – and do not want – without negatively charging it as a potential to manifest in our lives.

It may be possible for many here to notice that the attempt to avoid, escape or war on something feared or hated – is working the opposite to its stated intent.
This is to say evil works its own destruction – especially when masked in good intentions and paramount concerns that belie the fruits.

When the mind of whose purposes are legion (many and conflicting), runs out of the capacity to maintain such a juggling act, the invested identities can compete for dominance in ever shifting patterns of narrative assertion and justification – all of which deny the heart of a unified purpose that a mind in its own spin, interprets as concealing its OWN usurping intent. For is the light came back on, WHO would control the chaos of a mind in darkness?

But in light of a true discernment and recognition – what need is there for an interjecting ‘controller, or a sabotaging ‘fear’?
How does an Infinite Potential transform deeply set and defended habits?
By returning the gift of your now as a shifted perception more aligned transparency to self-honesty – as you are willing to accept, one step at a time.
This is not waiting on conditions, but open to look with new eyes.
That conditions then realign to reflect a new consciousness is also the opening of paths otherwise hidden.

Are we being shown what lies underneath as an opportunity to release it from service?
Do we have to physically die to release psychic-emotional patterns of negatively reinforcing results? Maybe there is something in ‘dying and rebirth’ within Life rather than mutating into Clingons possessed by fear of loss – acting out from believing we’ve already lost it and making it our pattern of repeating history – over and over again.

Regardless the Gates of Hell beckon, I say we are the being of the freedom to choose to look upon them and KNOW they are not our true foundation.

(A song from the 60s came to mind: “Come away Melinda. Come in and close the door..)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5CqRSg9Org

Prior to a conflicted mind, is beneath what runs as time set in loss.
I do not underestimate the pain of lost love.
But releasing to Life allows all that we lived to live on in us.
Gracefully or otherwise – fundamental changes are already in motion.
Fear can be turned to prayer of a true desire unfolding a true fulfilment.
Instead of a projection of masking substitutions, cover stories and other self-evasions.
No blame in our starting place or nothing can rise through Big Brother’s stamp.

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 11, 2020 11:53 PM

Ohio woman diagnosed with covid-19 without a test despite not having a fever: https://twitter.com/EM_KA_17/status/1247760134106824704

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 11:33 PM

Cars Queue for Miles at Food Banks as Coronavirus Leaves Millions Unemployed

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:17 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

What about rent? Food is only a tiny fraction of that.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 11:21 PM

I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure, there are too many hysterical people, propagandists, exaggerators, , liars, taboos, censors and ultimately prison cells, waiting to stop us getting to the truth.

RobG
RobG
Apr 11, 2020 11:10 PM

In the hope that it might be helpful for some people, I am someone who’s suffered from chronic anxiety attacks all my life.

It’s a very crippling condition, which you have to accommodate, but I have never, ever let it stop me from a very fulfilling life.

In the present circumstances I know many people will be feeling anxiety, etc.

For people like me (who know a bit about anxiety) it’s just water off a duck’s arse.

I don’t mean to belittle people’s concerns. I suppose I’m just trying to say that there needs to be a bit of perspective.

Death and taxes; you know the old saying.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Apr 12, 2020 12:35 AM
Reply to  RobG

That’s lovely x

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:18 PM

‘Good cop’ Trump is pointing at the 1st of May, early release for good behaviour. But I think ‘bad cop’ military industrial complex might have a different view.

RobG
RobG
Apr 11, 2020 11:14 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

“early release for good behaviour” is never going to happen. These vermin think they will get away with this, and they will unless millions get out on the streets and protest.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 11, 2020 10:12 PM

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-could-biometric-id-cards-offer-the-uk-a-lockdown-exit-strategy-11970628

Identity cards have been mandatory only twice in British history – during the two world wars – moments of enormous national emergency.

Should they be brought in again to deal with the COVID-19 crisis?

The question is more pressing than you might think. Although experts are unsure if the UK’s coronavirus curve is beginning to plateau, we will certainly hit the peak soon.

The “experts” are unsure about the plateau but this writer (Alexander Martin) is certain we will hit the peak soon. (And strictly speaking, you can’t both peak and plateau)

Do these people even read what they write?

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:27 PM
Reply to  George Mc

None of this surveillance is necessary. We just need to protect the vulnerable and keep them safe in in protected areas, and now we know who the vulnerable are following months of data collection, they are the old and the sick.

One of the reasons perhaps why the fit and the young keep appearing to dye in the UK media, because it keeps people away from the obvious solution. ‘Everyone is vulnerable’ they keep saying over and over agin, which is a blatant lie, we are not all vulnerable.

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 11, 2020 10:47 PM
Reply to  George Mc

That is why biometric ID cards have been proposed.

By whom? Sky News?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 12:41 AM
Reply to  Alan Tench

Could be kite-flying by trusted friends. I imagine we’ll be seeing a lot more of that.

May Hem
May Hem
Apr 12, 2020 10:02 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

by gates and his chums. and after this first lockdown ……

“when society isn’t under lockdown will be there an expectation (soon enforceable) that all individuals participate in a strengthening regimen for their bodies and minds in anticipation of the NEXT outbreak? Adherence tracked viadigital fit bits and brain wave headbands? Leaderboards? Badges?

Black Mirror today, but how about next year? Five years from now? What is your “health brand” in this new age of pandemic? How “risky” are you? What level of discrimination will you be subject to? How are you managing your health? How are you tracking it? How will we hold you accountable?” and of course, how can we make a profit out of you.

this coming digital nightmare is full explained on the great blog of alison mcdowell at her website wrench in the gears

Tom Welsh
Tom Welsh
Apr 12, 2020 11:58 AM
Reply to  George Mc

As a professional writer and editor, I always reread what I have written. If no obvious errors jump out at me, I can often find ways to say it better.

As for the “journalists” who write for the MSM, they are like politicians in that they try actively to avoid saying anything falsifiable. Instead, they paint a kind of impressionistic picture with words and phrases.

The average reader is not meant to parse and construe news stories. Instead, he lies back and lets them wash over him like music. What matters is the overall emotional impact.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:22 PM
Reply to  Tom Welsh

A lot of what you find in the msm is just a copy paste of what you find on news services like reuters and ap etc. So the vast majority is coming straight from there. That’s how they so easily propagandize the world in a coordinated fashion.

Portonchok
Portonchok
Apr 11, 2020 9:48 PM

Pretty Vacant was laying down the law today, and in a new “Prime Ministerial” trained voice. So now we know where she’s been hiding for the past few weeks – taking elocution lessons to try and sound Prime Ministerial like Maggie did.

She’s clearly letting the boys fight it out and let them take the flack for the COVID disaster, then she will glide in, cold, calculating and with her new artificial Maggie voice.

The plebs will fall for it and she’ll be the UK’s next PM for sure.

Benji and Mark will be so happy that her “secret“ 2 weeks “holiday” in Israel are giving them their expected returns finally.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:09 PM
Reply to  Portonchok

With her powerful friends in Israel, who helped the tories pull off the antisemitism campaign against Corbyn, you’re right, she’ll be the next Vicereine.

paul
paul
Apr 11, 2020 10:14 PM
Reply to  Portonchok

How diverse! How progressive! A coloured vagina!

hotrod31
hotrod31
Apr 12, 2020 1:55 AM
Reply to  paul

This hypothetical little strategy worked quite well in the US – Obama served as the perfect foil for 8 years of rape and pillage of the 6-7 countries slated for regime change, courtesy of the Ju-virus Yanoon plan.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 11, 2020 10:48 PM
Reply to  Portonchok

“I DO care; I DO care” . . . Yes, Margaret, of course you do. Now have another cup of tea before we look for another helpless group of people to exploit and rob because of our superior bank balances and tax-free perks.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 9:14 PM

In the UK’s government briefing today, apart from the obvious arrogant, corrupt, callus bunch of crooks lying in front of a podium to a dishonest, cowardly press core, I saw what I thought was a paralyzed government, which has got the puppet media ranting endlessly about gloves and face-masks, the current blanket news item in the UK, to distract everyone from the very obvious troupe of elephants in the press room, which could be addressed by the question: Why the bloody hell are we doing this incredibly stupid thing to ourselves and our country?
It is the same question which could have easily been asked during the other great American victory, Brexit.………I personally don’t believe our government are paralyzed because Johnson is struck in a hospital bed, I think they are frozen rigid because they are terrified to break ranks and defy US orders. Who I believe is orchestrating this whole show, and the British are dutifully waiting for new instructions. These are not people able to make independent decisions, they are not in control and they didn’t look or carry themselves like they are in statement, they are functionaries, like Viceroy Johnson himself. I think they have no idea when the US is going to allow them to reverse this house arrest, if ever, all they know is they must keep enforcing it, for as yet unspecified personal rewards.

Adam
Adam
Apr 11, 2020 10:33 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Very smartly observed Jim, we’re still not clear on all motives, but collectively we’ll see through this eventually.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 11, 2020 11:28 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

They are also frozen rigid because they know what is coming – the thing this virus scare was supposed to make us not notice…
Stay awake, people.

Binra
Binra
Apr 11, 2020 11:57 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Monopoly globalism is not US as such though it has considerable assets there – which can be brought to bear when needed.

Almost everyone is paralysed. Fear communicates in different forms and yet the form of fear that operates is an enforcable control via different vectors of persuasion and penalty.

Hitchens pointed out the unbelievable belief given to media, gov, and global WHO edict by so many who he thought had a capacity for critical thinking.
Yet it was a walk in.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 12, 2020 12:06 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

“It is the same question which could have easily been asked during the other great American victory, Brexit”

So, why did Obama make the anti-Brexit Intervention that he did?

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 12, 2020 12:10 AM
Reply to  clickkid

https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/05/01/eu-cia-covert-operation/

Snippet:

“In the midst of the cold war, the United States and its European allies conceived the EU as the political concomitant of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). The basic idea was to counterpose a European identity against the “internationalist” ideology of the Soviets and their increasingly powerful fifth columns in the West. The “European Movement,” which was and still is the “grassroots” organization that relentlessly pushed for the creation of a European super-state, was financed to the tune of $1 million a year by the “American Committee for a United Europe” (ACUE), which was founded by Allen Dulles, who was at that point chairing a committee tasked with looking at how to organize the nascent CIA, and William “Wild Bill” Donovan, who had been head of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), forerunner of the CIA. Allen Dulles, who would become a CIA’s director, was the Vice President. On the board was Walter Bedell Smith, the CIA’s first director, as well as number of spook-ish figures who played various roles in the American intelligence community at one time or another. Prominent politicians such as Herbert Lehman and businessmen, such as Conrad Hilton, were involved, as well as left-leaning labor leaders, such as David Dubinsky and the ex-Communist Jay Lovestone. CIA agent Tom Braden served as Executive Director.”

Dave Lawton
Dave Lawton
Apr 12, 2020 1:58 AM
Reply to  clickkid

Allen Dulles also created the MK Ultra brainwashing program and hired Sidney Gottlieb to carry out the task.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 12, 2020 9:37 AM
Reply to  clickkid

to clickkid

The same reason he claimed he was going to help millions out of poverty, he was a liar. The war against European via the TTIP which Europe rebuffed and against the the Euro was much alive when he was in power.

hotrod31
hotrod31
Apr 12, 2020 2:01 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Touche!
One exception, if I might … The US is in a similar conundrum because their orders come from , you know where … wink, wink – nod, nod. Ju-virus …

Mucho
Mucho
Apr 11, 2020 8:56 PM

Brendon O Connell broadcast here with some of his best work to date. Starts off with a jaw dropping clip of Steve Bannon waxing lyrical then a summary of some of the most important aspects of his research. Very interesting and very highly recommended.

50. BANNON KISSINGER COVID 19 & THE PRELUDE TO WAR IN JULY 2020

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 9:23 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Steve Bannon the saviour of the Chinese people ? very funny, I don’t hear him trying to stop the US genocide against the Iranian and Venezuelan people. Of course not he is a lying fascist.

Mucho
Mucho
Apr 11, 2020 9:59 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

You smell of agenda

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:10 PM
Reply to  Mucho

Yes, an anti fascist agenda.

Tea
Tea
Apr 12, 2020 1:27 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

“Steve Bannon the saviour of the Chinese people ?”

Steve Bannon is worshipped in underground churches in China along Jesus and other nasty Pentagon officials. This is what proselytising is for.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:49 AM
Reply to  Tea

BULL etc. Or are you taking the mickey?

paul
paul
Apr 11, 2020 10:20 PM
Reply to  Mucho

This guy is even more demented and reptilian than Kissinger.
A sort of downmarket Alex Jones.

hotrod31
hotrod31
Apr 12, 2020 2:17 AM
Reply to  Mucho

Thanks for sharing this podcast. Bannon is another vomit-inducing grub because he has proven to be in bed with the parasites raping and pillaging the resources of the resource-rich, poorer nations.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 8:55 PM

I really value these pieces on the virus but one thing is never explained. The general message seems to be that covid is not particularly worse than the flu. If so, how do you account for the fact that ICU’s are overwhelmed and quite a lot of doctors have died? One possible theory is that covid takes out people who would’ve died anyway in the flu season, it just takes them out at a faster rate, overwhelming ICU’s but not affecting total death rates across the whole season.

Chicot
Chicot
Apr 11, 2020 9:00 PM
Reply to  Mark

Are you sure that icu’s are actually overwhelmed? The government seems very reticent about providing actual figures about that. In the US, it’s becoming pretty clear that they have plenty of spare capacity. I think Cuomo said at one stage they were going to need 30,000 ventilators for NYC and, at present, they need 600! As for doctors dying there’s clearly something going on there. I can only guess that they’re getting a higher viral load than people who normally get the disease due to insufficient quantities of PPE.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 11:36 PM
Reply to  Chicot

Unfortunately I only have it from a good friend in France who knows doctors that ICU’s are overwhelmed there. But I agree you can’t find proper statistics and information on this in the media and that is part of the problem.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 10:34 PM
Reply to  Mark

Narrative, narrative, narrative -and mainstream narrative at that.

I you want to talk about overwhelmed ICUs I want to see well-sourced data – even footage, credible footage of how does the mainstream put it – ‘tsunamis’ of patients pouring in to the ICUs.

Should such data be found, then I want it put into context ie previous years.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 11:37 PM
Reply to  clickkid

I agree, a lot of information is via “I know someone who told me”.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:37 PM
Reply to  Mark

They said today at the new conference, that a large number of medical staff had died, (9 I think) but no details were given or seem to exist in the press. Were they all old and/or with medical conditions ? I heard on the radio we are asked to ‘respect the privacy of the families’, which I think translates as, we’re not bloody telling you.

Mark
Mark
Apr 11, 2020 11:37 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

These are good questions, why can’t we get answers?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 12:46 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

And of course they could very easily give anonymised statistics without disrespecting anybody’s privacy. So that line is pure humbug.

Binra
Binra
Apr 12, 2020 12:07 AM
Reply to  Mark

If you followed up on the site recommended and used as a basis for the article you would have a better understanding. Or at least a healthy scepticism to the reporting of news.
In Italy – many (I don’t know what proportion) of the doctors who died were retired – in the 80s or 90s and different kind of doctor – ie not front line medical staff.
Deliberate misrepresentation for shock effect – and justification therefore for draconian disempowerments of natural rights of living, and long fought for rights under law – ought to disqualify any such news service or politician from credibility henceforth.

Have a read through and follow the news that is otherwise withheld you by lockstep before it too is locked down.

Mark
Mark
Apr 12, 2020 12:45 AM
Reply to  Binra

I certainly have a scepticism with regards what is being reported in the mainstream and agree this is looking a lot like the usual misrepresentation. Which site are you referring to (there are many links in the article)?

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 4:34 PM
Reply to  Mark

OG take note of Mark’s user experience.

It was put at the bottom of the article as the best source of cvd news
the link is
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Though the site has been edited for clarity and a summary at the top recently, there haven’t been any more updates for a few days. However, the overview of information available is key to anyone who has run with the bait and cannot see outside the frame being pushed. It doesn’t go into all areas – but it does point very clearly to the deceits, errors and omissions – that are of course operating a deliberate pretext for overt control under globalist dictate.
In this case it was a walk in – without even a metaphorical shot being fired.
Will it ‘take’.
Are we wanting to be ‘taken in’?
So far my sense is that like all wars before – the propaganda simply works.
But this ‘war’ is directed at the people by a corporate canopy that effective regulates what we can do by controlling the means to live.
Monopolies operate by inducing scarcity, debt, toxicity, guilt and lots of leverage.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 12, 2020 12:17 AM
Reply to  Mark

Good question, Mark, and probably you won’t find the answer here as everybody is too busy talking about fascist take-overs, MSM false narrative pushing and manipulated numbers. You know, all the same ol’ boring alt internet forum stuff.

To answer your question (as good as I can):

As far as I understand, COVID-19 might or might not be worse than the flu. That is simply not known yet. What is known, is that this is a new virus and nobody is immune to it yet. So if you let it run its course, it could infect many people. Some claim 60-70% of the population. This is different than a normal flu, which returns every year, and for which over the course of a few years, many people have become immune to. Therefore there will be a smaller part of the population infected, I believe 10% is typical for seasonal flu.

Having 70% of the population infected (instead of 10%) is in itself not a problem, as for many people the symptoms will be mild. What those numbers do though, is that the vulnerable demographic (mostly older people in this case) will be much more exposed to infected people. So many more will end up in hospital if you let the virus run its course. So many in fact, that there simply won’t be enough hospital capacity. That would mean so many preventable deaths, that governments have decided to not let the virus run its course. Some of them too late, like Italy and the third world country known as the US. But realize that what you see now is the consequence of countries taking strict measures to contain the virus, not what happens if you let it run its course. So a direct comparison to normal flu numbers is hard to make.

Regarding the ICUs: It’s important to realize that the peak in ICUs comes a couple of weeks after the peak in new cases. So even if the number of hospitalizations go down, that doesn’t mean the worst has passed. That’s why anybody claiming this is all a hoax because their local hospital is not full (as quite a few have done here), simply doesn’t understand the basics of the situation. I don’t know why so many people do end up in ICU, and whether that’s more than normal. The Dutch health organization (RIVM) at one point changed their model by raising the average number of days people needed to spend in ICU from 10 to 23. So it could be that people with COVID-19 spend more time in ICU than normal flu patients and that that causes overload. But that’s speculation, I’m still looking for an expert opinion on this.

binra
binra
Apr 12, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

You cant really shut down (cellular) communication (virus), but you can demonise it and get people to shut down their own life support system.

But even within the viral paradigm look at the scientific voices not being given voice on
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 2:40 PM
Reply to  binra

And what you could also do, is make sense.

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 6:44 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

I did wonder if ‘cellular’ would only mean mobile phones to many…

Living cells create virus or exosome (nothing else can) as extracellular communication systes of information exchange. They are a packet or packets of information wrapped in proteins – which may be part of their ‘addressing system’ – so as to be recognised and taken in by other cells who can then receive the ‘toxic alarm’ and instruction set for dealing with it. If they have no significant toxic load they may be ‘asymptomatic’ – ie show no symptoms of any clinical illness.

The virus (Greek; toxin) – is defined in medical terms as contagious (toxin) and demonised as a pathogen with the ability to disguise itself, hijack cells and attack the body. They HAVE no such intelligence but are ‘given’ it by the casting of the narrative.

If you did not get that overall picture, ask me for more clarity in whatever specific way might help.
If you got that – NOW look at the exact same pattern in human affairs.
Fear-toxic communications or deceits are taken in and used to deny and shut down communication. It isn’t that people do not have toxic fears and guilt – but that the propaganda ‘false flags’ fear and threat to a virus – and amps it up with ‘leaked bio weapon reports’. The instructions or payload of the PR is that NOT doing what it says will kill Many – maybe MILLIONS of people – and in the UK will destroy our NHS. And so shutdown and control everything in the body politic and body corporate – ie Life support – under pretext of avoiding what the lockdown will do. After transferring wealth and power from Billions of people while they bang a pan and cheer as some sense of positive expression under dread terror of a ”disease process’ that about 80% have NO clinical symptom and of those who do, very few (haven a figure in my head but read the link I offerred) have critical challenge to health of who by far the majority are already suffering ‘comorbidity’ or others disease conditions, on various medications that may aggravate thei condition and receive treatments that do NOT support their immunity but at best manage or suppress symptoms – on ways that can suppress or deny the process of the sickness as a natural function instead of supporting and nursing through it, and at worst can kill the patient or be the final straw in tipping the balance.
While also – generally – withholding treatments that are pharmaceutically ‘incorrect’ – such as IV Vit C in high dose, and the protocols with antimalarial drugs – which affect the inability of the blood to oxygenate, excess oxidisation of free iron, and the damage and breakdown of vital organs for lack of energy under great need of it.
I know of no proof that covid19 is THE cause of this late complication in some patients. I know of no proof that presence of a small percent of RNA fragments that ‘match’ the novel virus definition CAUSE disease – (the tests do not indicate quantity and OTHER virus are also often present.

I know ‘Lets ONLY seek and find models and causes of disaster that implicate or statistically enhance CO2 as the ‘toxic threat. Did I jump stories or are they essentially different levers for the same outcome? Shutting down such Civilisation as we have known it – on a global scale to re-consolidate a centrally managed control system that its controllers may see as the wherewithal to recreate life in their own image.
It is so often true that our goals are symbols for something innate but overlooked or denied and so is pursued as dominance, possession and control.

Now that you have opened a communication with me, I ask – if you don’t understand – then what – in and of yourself DO you understand?
Perhaps a belief that we already know what is happening works the capacity to be deceived while being robbed – as in being phished or manipulated into a false set of assumptions.

The refusal to understand is the post-truth blanking of any perceived challenge to narrative identity. Shut it down, invalidate it, smear – but don’t relate or you may become infected with ‘weird ideas’.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 7:02 PM
Reply to  Binra

When engaging with random people on the internet, one needs to determine which ones are worth the time. You called Swiss Propaganda Research the best source for COVID-19 news, so I know enough.

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 8:00 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Well OG did say that – perhaps I did also. I have value all sources – and Swiss Propaganda Research is only collating various resources that are denied a voice regardless of qualification to comment. You draw your own conclusions.

But – again – you dump and run.
What have you got to offer?
I’m not looking to shoot it down – just share something you find of value in all this.

There is nothing random about me or your meeting me.
You chose to react to my post – that is your decision.
Based – whether you know it or not – on your own inner responses to an actual meeting with me.
You knocked.
I answered.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 8:36 PM
Reply to  Binra

I think there is something wrong with your short-term memory. In this very thread you called SPR “…the best source of cvd news…” (scroll up a bit). And you were the one reacting to my post first. You knocked. I’m just being civil. In that post I explained Mark in what sense COVID-19 might be different than seasonal flu. What I got from you, was a totally irrelevant reply, suggesting (from what I understand) that the virus and its mechanisms could also be a metaphor for how things play out politically. How on earth does that engage with what I said?

If you want to engage with me, specifically tell me where I’m right and wrong in my post to Mark. If you want to talk politics, please go play somewhere else.

Binra
Binra
Apr 13, 2020 10:06 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Apologies if I didn’t go back and reread the whole history – I have read and commented to very many article around the Net since and so I may have lacked a proper contextual response.

I write to the theme which is much bigger than a few stats pushing a narrative. Billions worldwide are forced out of work – for what? Draconian powers taken and martial law enforced and for what?
I don’t care if its fascist or anything-else-ist – that fact is a takeover by state power that is globally orchestrated.

I just reread your reply to Mark and I state that many articles by qualified people refute what you are saying. It is simply untrue.

I don’t say that you do not believe it – and perhaps your opening dismissal of ‘all the usual boring facist takeovers’ would provide a reason for why you would have to believe the official narratives.

That we project anthropomorphic meanings onto nature is not my main point but one of my latter points.
I write the the general interest in the whole issue. It was not specifically and particularly to you and clearly made no sense or offered none to the sense you are seeking to verify.

If you are unwilling to read the collated reports at the site linked, there is no point in writing them all out for you here. But there is a good summary overview that is hardly taxing to read.
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

If you want to NOT include politics – why are you reading and posting Off-guardian? (I do not engage in traditional politicking which has become largely a sideshow of diversion and division. Social engineering – or the manipulation of people’s beliefs and identities, is the nature of politics as the management of ‘Human Farm’.

I’ll leave you be and wish you well in your endeavours.
I realise now that you had a context for questioning what my relevance was to your points. I’ll be more specific should another occasion arise – and put more general comment where you don’t have to take it personally.

The medical Industrial Complex effectively runs WHO. Its financial leverage completely distorts politics, science, media, education – regardless what system of politic or where on the globe. Not least because it masks as neutral and devoted to the good of humanity as a whole. Look closer. If you dare – or care.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 10:59 PM
Reply to  Binra

Good to hear my reply taught you how a forum works.

Also good to know my points are simply untrue. You have convinced me I was wrong. I will look for the answers (if I dare) on a website on which all articles point in the same direction. I see they even have some articles that use this website as a source (and I know that this website is very balanced and intellectually honest). And oh wait… the contributors of said site prefer to stay anonymous. Thanks for the link!

I don’t think you are as critical as you think you are. And I also think you don’t really understand how power works. Maybe you should comment a bit less and think a bit more for yourself. At the moment they have you exactly where they want you.

binra
binra
Apr 14, 2020 1:44 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Well, your cynical smugness and smear aside, the collated reports on the Swiss site are documented and for the most part highly qualified or respected – there are a few links to mainstream news pages that may not meet that criteria.
I also said ‘if you care’.
If you have any link to examples of your superior critical thinking as to how power really works – please enlighten me to even more than ‘linear forum protocols’.
You mention ‘they’ have me where ‘they’ want me. Who might ‘they’ be?
If you know anyone else who thinks like me I would love to meet them 😉

Thinking divorced from the heart operates a loveless and even ‘Luciferian’ agenda – in cynical, hateful, undermining of life, by attacking itself in others from a false light of smug self-certainty.
I respect your freedom to look where you see fit.
The nature of a mind is that it can change perspective according to the will that guides it.
I do not freely choose to align in coercion and deceit and so I leave the bait hanging. But any who run with it, reinforce its narrative.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 13, 2020 2:38 PM
Reply to  Mark

I managed to talk to an expert (virologist) about this, and it turns out that with seasonal flu, far fewer people end up in ICU. And if they do, they typically leave the ICU within a few days (instead of with COVID-19, where people might stay in ICU far longer). I’ve seen conservative estimates where ICU admissions with COVID-19 are 15 to 35 times higher than with seasonal flu. And that’s with the current lock-downs in place. So you can imagine that this number would be far higher if we let the virus run its course. The expectation of way more people in ICU and them staying longer is what led to the current measures. And remember, the peak is yet to come in many countries.

I was also told that doctors are quite shocked at how destructive this virus is. Those who survive could be left with a lot of damage to their lungs. With seasonal flu, doctors have a pretty good idea for which patients it makes sense to admit them to ICU, and for whom it would only prolong suffering. But COVID-19 is new, so they can’t make an informed decision yet. It could be that when COVID-19 comes back doctors will be more familiar with the long-term damage the virus can do. And maybe then a lot of people that now are admitted to ICU won’t be in that case, just because doctors expect that the chances of good recovery are slim.

So yeah, “this is just like seasonal flu” my ass.

Mark
Mark
Apr 13, 2020 11:40 PM
Reply to  Mike Mos

Thanks that’s helpful. I wish we had these virologists on TV, it seems like all sensible discussion is “I know someone who told me”.

Mike Mos
Mike Mos
Apr 14, 2020 12:57 AM
Reply to  Mark

Well, from your point of view my reply should also look like “I know someone who told me” 😉

But I agree that, while not interesting to everyone, some people are interested to know answers to questions like “is this different than the seasonal flu?” A website like this does a horrible job, because they already know the answer. So they get some quote from some critical scientist and some numbers from Swiss Propaganda Research and feed it to the gullible pack here. That has nothing to do with critical journalism. (But that’s also not the goal of this website, as should be clear.)

I really wish the answers to questions like these could be found on for instance the WHO website. Governments need to be aware that lies or half-truths on the internet can go viral, so they need to counter it and provide their own source. Not to stamp the disinformation out, but just for balance.

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 11, 2020 8:29 PM

“We are at a dangerous threshold, on the cusp of an internationally orchestrated, fascistic financial coup” -Ernst Wolff

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 8:44 PM
Reply to  DavidW

You mean USA orchestrated fascistic coup, there is no other, world structure, system or organisation other than the military industrial Corporate complex of the USA able to do any of what you claim these ‘financiers’ are going to do. It is a national operation by the Empire, the one we must never never mention. You can blame the bankers the oligarchs or even the jews but don’t mention the USA, that is not allowed, despite the mass of evidence pointing directly at the USA.

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 11, 2020 9:01 PM
Reply to  jack(jim)

I’m not claiming anything Jack. just passing on something I think might interest other people. I like that the focus is mostly on what is happening with the Western financialisation meltdown, it really makes you realise how much of a sideshow the Corona stuff is.

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 11, 2020 9:07 PM
Reply to  DavidW

I also think ‘they are all in it together’. The global elite is in play here. this is way above governments.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 9:32 PM
Reply to  DavidW

It would be interesting to watch Elon musk a few Bankers & Oligarchs explain that to a room full of US generals and the head of the CIA & NSA, when they have their entire lives totally bugged and a few hundred thousand primed men and missiles at their fingertips. I’m sure they can do business but the greater American project is the only game in town.

Binra
Binra
Apr 12, 2020 12:34 AM
Reply to  jack(jim)

Well you can run with that but it’s transnational or ‘global’. You can sort of identify a power class that like a Mafia has territorial squabbles but unites in protecting its common interest.
You can focus on different levels – for the ideas are sown first and the policies follow – with political sideshow to divert attention.
The right to rule is actively claimed by doing it, and learning to do it in ways by which we do it for them, against ourselves. Not least by manipulating guilt and fear as identity assets.

I find blaming to be a complete waste of time and life – but I hold responsibility as foundational to life and freedom.

A system of cover stories set against owning and meeting consequences became ‘The Economy’ of destruction by which to raid anything left to support its habit.

Dissociation can run a self-evasion under the belief and experience of a winning hand.
Those who would possess, become possessed, hollow and driven.
Ideas communicate and corrupted thinking can be inserted into the minds of the unwary by many tricks and devices. Then the people can be effectively run on the ideas they think are theirs – but to truly own your thought is to be responsible to the meaning you give and receive – and not to sleepwalk though someone else’s dream.
The USA is being destroyed from within – no less than Europe.
Greedy people make useful tools for those who are adept at using them.
This can include the masses who idolate in order to set up others for their own image, and tear down when they no longer serve purpose.

You want to make it simple – but in a way that makes you simple to manipulate or divert.
I am not at all excusing or justifiying the appalling behaviour of US leadership – or rather Corporate puppets. Dr Fauci seems to have taken over now. Dr WHO? …No, just a representative.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 12, 2020 12:50 AM
Reply to  DavidW

Bloody hell… He says he doesn’t want to encourage panic, but my local bank is going to notice if a stack of people suddenly want to take out a fair bit of money… Still, I suppose at least that would hasten the inevitable – a sort of mercy-killing of the banks…?
He is a very persuasive speaker, clearly exceptionally on the ball regarding world finance. This content doesn’t fall into the “conspiracy theory” categories set for controversial and uncomfortable ideas, but he states what he sees happening as if stating it was the most obvious thing to do in the world. One of those rare videos which clarify controversial things instead of shrouding them in even thicker fog.
Thanks for posting it.

DavidW
DavidW
Apr 12, 2020 8:50 AM
Reply to  wardropper

Hi Wardropper, I think if you look at the numbers its obvious the economy is truly knackered. The level of corporate debt is insane. A corporation doesn’t reinvest its profits in real things like more production, expansion anymore but buy backs of its own stock. They even borrow to do this. This is not real growth and it will pop at some time. With the interest rates being so low from the ‘money tree’ the elites have had access to almost free money since 2008. The fed pumped 1.5 Trillion into the markets on the 13th March and it buoyed the markets for 2 hours before it disappeared without trace. He states in the vid that the BIS have calculated an estimate of the derivative debt bubble and its estimated at 700 TRILLION. A great economist who was one of the few who saw the 2008 crash coming is Michael Hudson. Been reading his stuff for a while. according to him:

“The Fed’s Quantitative Easing since 2008 plus large companies using their earnings for stock buybacks drove the prices of financial assets into a realm of unreality. The result was that markets already were teetering on the brink of fragility. Any rise of normal interest to more normal conditions, or any external shock, was bound to crash the artificial values at which financial markets were priced. The Fed’s policy was to perpetuate this situation for as long as possible by pumping in yet more credit. But at near-zero interest rates, there was little that could be done.

https://michael-hudson.com/2020/03/unpayable-corporate-debt-a-brady-bond-solution-for-americas-economic-crisis/

This could be a great opportunity for the people to reclaim the creation of money. Because when you boil it all down this is what gives these people their power.

This has been coming since 2008, it was just a matter of when. But it looks like there aint enough money to print this time. The fact that the western economic system has totally failed is the reason we are in this farcical virus B-movie.

wardropper
wardropper
Apr 13, 2020 2:19 AM
Reply to  DavidW

I agree totally with everything you say, David. and I thought the video was exceptionally clear and informative. The first part of my comment was just a comic outburst of over-acting based on the purely selfish idea that my local bank would probably panic in such circumstances, and refuse to let anybody take any significant amounts of money out, as Dr. Wolff suggested might be a sensible thing to do…
When it comes to any sort of official services, we have few friends in the world, and bankers, the media, the police and Parliament are not our friends.
I still remember vividly the embarrassing shenanigans in the US Senate as Ben Bernanke of the Fed Reserve calmly lied about what was going on in 2008. Despite some fine token criticism and interrogation, he was not arrested, or even fired, for his shameless defence of utter wickedness. I gather he is doing very well for himself these days on the lecture circuit, like a whole bunch of other treasonous serpents.
I also remember the more awake of our political commentators (very few, of course) warning of another devastating crash unless we got rid of the current evil in our western financial system.
But the wiser Presidents who knew about, and very much wished to put a stop to the ruinous hold which that evil has over our governments have all been silenced.
Bribery can silence many, and threats or actual assassination will silence the rest. That’s the root of our problem.

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 11, 2020 8:23 PM

How about this?:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-3d-model-reveals-how-covid-19-can-spread-in-supermarket-11971373

Particles carrying the coronavirus can remain in the air longer than previously thought, according to researchers.

Scientists in Finland have released a 3D model showing how coronavirus is transported through extremely small airborne aerosol particles when a person coughs, sneezes or talks.

They said their findings “emphasise the importance of avoiding busy indoor spaces” during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Watch that CGI simulation. Two figues separated by shelves and standing about 10 m apart. But watch that lethal cloud!

So – new rules? Forget the 2m space. We must have much much greater distance. And objects in between won’t help!

OK here’s an idea: How about just show us John Carpenter’s “The Thing” where ANYONE could be one of THEM. And being one of THEM makes you turn into a rampaging tree-sprouting spider head!

George Mc
George Mc
Apr 11, 2020 8:38 PM
Reply to  George Mc

From the above link:

Researchers find particles carrying the virus can remain in the air for several minutes after a COVID-19 sufferer coughs.

Perfectly true of course. I was in Tesco’s today with about 40 other people. One of them coughed and about 30 dropped dead right away. I only managed to stay alive by speeding towards the door and just narrowly overtaking that fetid cloud.

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:57 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Clearly the only ultimate solution to this situation is everyone permanently living in their own secure biorepository vessel. A stainless steel, twin walled chamber of about 2m x 1m x 1m should do it, with an IV food drip, internet connection and all serviced by Amazon robots.
We’ll beat this thing !

MrChops
MrChops
Apr 12, 2020 12:20 AM
Reply to  crank

Almost the synopsis for The Matrix………

Shaking My Head
Shaking My Head
Apr 11, 2020 11:05 PM
Reply to  George Mc

People have become so brainwashed that you could get let out the loudest most foul smelling gas and you would get fewer dirty looks than if you sneezed.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Apr 12, 2020 12:55 AM

A nice lady sneezed in front of me and immediately laughed and said she ought to be careful.. I warned her of the danger of getting shot.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:26 PM
Reply to  George Mc

And cops have an invisible shield of protection around them, so they can be next to each other no problem.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 8:48 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Fuck that, I’ve had enough of this shit already. If I get it, then I get it, I want to die a free man not cowering in my flat from an invisible fantom of the facist media’s creation.

Stan Smith
Stan Smith
Apr 11, 2020 8:10 PM
clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:38 PM
Reply to  Stan Smith

Thanks Stan, I like a good horror story, but remember that in serious discussions, arithmetic always trumps narrative.

By the way you were lucky to beat Ilie Nastase at Wimbledon 1972.

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:40 PM
Reply to  Stan Smith

Thanks for that Stan.
It was entertaining.
If we think the exaggeration is bad here, I guess we need to remember the vultures, the cadavers on trains and the burning piles of corpses in the streets…etc. Real Sunday Sport stuff.
Please be more discerning, or something.

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:04 PM

In OffG’s article about Death Figures, Kit mentions the delay between reported deaths and registered deaths, and the danger of double counting:

The ONS system is predicated on the registration of deaths. Meaning they count, not the number of people who die every week, but the number of deaths registered per week. This, naturally, leads to slight delays in the recording of numbers as the registration process can take a few days.

However, with coronavirus deaths, since its a “national emergency”, they are now including “provisional figures” which will be “included in the dataset in subsequent weeks”. This leaves them wide open to – either accidentally or deliberately – reporting the same deaths twice. Once “provisionally”, and then once “officially” a week later.

This from CEBM explains that the media quoted figure for ‘today’s deaths’ is in fact not referring specifically to people who have died today, but today and over several days previously:
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-update-9th-april/

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 11, 2020 9:25 PM
Reply to  crank

A couple of good documents. Well worth reading to get an idea of what’s likely to be going on. Their assessment is that the death rate may have now peaked. However, we’ve still got the ‘infected person run over by a bus’ problem.

jack(jim)
jack(jim)
Apr 11, 2020 10:15 PM
Reply to  Alan Tench

You mean Data collection anomalies.

P K
P K
Apr 11, 2020 8:00 PM

How do we explain the situation in New York? This is a common objection I get when I present articles like this to people who are paralyzed with fear of this virus.

The numbers haven’t lied to us thus far in terms of other countries realizing low mortality rates of this virus. But you also can’t hide deaths either, and there are a larger number than normal in NY. I know that worldwide, and especially in the U.S., there has be a very overzealous and judicious use of the term “COVID-19 death” for practically any death that happens. And I also know that countries that are truly looking into deaths are realizing that the majority of deaths labelled as COVID aren’t actually COVID, but ‘normal’ deaths or multiple medical problems compounded by COVID. And I can pretty well guarantee that the U.S. will NEVER look into by COVID and with COVID deaths as other countries have in order to keep numbers inflated.

But the numbers remain, there are a lot of people dying in NY right now. Is it just a local hotspot of overly at risk people? Is it lack of treatment and facilities- this one seems odd with looking at the citizen journalists who have filmed absolutely empty hospitals. Or is there something bigger that we’re missing, as in high air pollution and high Legionalla infection and general old age as we saw in Italy? Perhaps other Epidemiologies- suicide, domestic/ violent crime increase, etc.?

I am interested to see what others thoughts are on this. I fully believe that this is truly a virus of media panic and hype far more than any actual serious illness, but the case of NY is puzzling to me. As one who works “on the frontlines” in EMS, all I have truly seen are empty hospitals, COVID-19 wards being closed because “the surge” we’ve been promised by our public health officials for weeks now has never come to fruition.

crank
crank
Apr 11, 2020 8:12 PM
Reply to  P K

Got any figures on NY deaths now and other years?

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:35 PM
Reply to  P K

Just spent a couple of mins lookuing at Basic stats.

According to Wikipedia (sorry) -there have been 7844 deaths so far from CV in about a month.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_New_York_(state)

According to this:

https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2017/table31a.htm

There were a total of 155191 deaths in the state in 2017.

That’s about 13000 a month.

So, we have plenty of normal deaths to hide a covid-19 epidemic in – if we so wish.

March is a typical flu month – so that makes it even easier.

Total mortality statistics are your friends.

P K
P K
Apr 11, 2020 8:44 PM
Reply to  clickkid

IOW, no real excess mortality, and with COVID-19 deaths falling off in the next week or so, the likelihood of excess mortality will decrease or barely make a bulge in the stats.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 11, 2020 10:42 PM
Reply to  P K

Abnormally high population density. Heavy reliance on the subway. NYC is more like an East Asian city than a typical America one.

Reg
Reg
Apr 11, 2020 11:30 PM
Reply to  P K

P K, think of it this way. You’ve seen or read about magicians making trains or elephants or the Empire State Building disappear, right? That’s where we are. It’s an illusion. A trick. They have fucked with your mind and robbed you of every penny you had and now they will tag you and make sure you never think or say anything unorthodox ever again. This is Armageddon. Freedom v slavery.

livingsb
livingsb
Apr 12, 2020 12:17 AM
Reply to  P K

They fucking rigged the two largest buildings in the world to collapse into their own footprints in NYC and few made a peep about some sort of proper investigation. So proving a point isn’t the issue, its getting people out of their cognitive dissonance.

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 1:08 AM
Reply to  P K

One possible answer is that people are now afraid to call for an ambulance when they have a cardiac arrest. This caused an excess of 1,250 deaths in the week of 5 April.

Of course they will all be “due to covid 19”, even though by definition none of them were tested.

May Hem
May Hem
Apr 12, 2020 5:53 AM
Reply to  David

i’ve watched bits of TV here in australia – no other topic but the plandemic. but i’ve never viewed a real person with the alleged virus. its always scenes of hospital corridors with lots and lots of machinery and screens, people in plastic and masks writing notes down or typing on a computer and walking up and down corridors. so where are the sick people?

and on the scenes of mass graves in new york – this could all be fake. lots of crisis actors out of work? yes, i’m a cynic when it comes to mainstream media and the necessary fear porn prior to imposing their fourth industrial revolution upon us all…..if we let them!

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 6:13 AM
Reply to  May Hem

Then you might enjoy this hazmat suits video from the UK. A guy who supposedly died from covid19 was actually alive and well.

JudyJ
JudyJ
Apr 12, 2020 10:54 AM
Reply to  David

That’s astounding, David. Whatever happened clearly took some forethought and couldn’t just be explained away as a misunderstanding.

David
David
Apr 12, 2020 10:59 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

Yes Judy. Scary isn’t it?

bob
bob
Apr 11, 2020 7:37 PM

This might seem a silly comment but has anybody written to their MP about this? Has anybody expressed their displeasure at what is happening? MPs are running scared of the public because they know they have set something up that is problematic. Most MPs are COWARDS – a mass public campaign to write to these people – elected only a few months ago – why are we letting them get away with all of this shit?? We have to wake up too and act according to our consciences.

You may not get any replies – I haven’t – and bear in mind each MP has a crowd of ‘helpers’/ gatekeepers, volunteers or paid (by us) mandarins who think they are in charge. Delusion idealogues who are perpetrating the mythology of their superiority – they need bringing down. This is something we can all do. These twats need exorcising and it is something we can do en masse. Come on then …………

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 11, 2020 7:57 PM
Reply to  bob

I did email the other day, mainly to send her information about Andrew Saul’s website and recent videos, but I also said that I thought the lock-down was doing damage and should be ended as soon as possible. I didn’t go into details, but I just thought I should express the view in case she is under the impression that everyone approves of it. I hope other sceptics write to her.

bob
bob
Apr 11, 2020 8:18 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

well done Mike – it’s the least we can do – we underestimate the power we have as a community- these MPs are paid by us to represent us but they don’t – and few seem to mind or even think!! Just when are we going to fight back????

““The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie–deliberate, contrived and dishonest–but the myth–persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

[Commencement Address at Yale University, June 11 1962]”

― John F. Kennedy

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:32 PM
Reply to  bob

“written to their MP”

Pointless. That will only get you on their blacklist which they will use when it’s time to round up potential troublemakers.

Stop thinking that politicians are going to save you or turn things around. The entire system needs to be rebuild from the ground up. How many decades of disappointment is it going to take to realize this?

Willem
Willem
Apr 11, 2020 7:23 PM

This is from Orwell

(https://orwell.ru/library/essays/Spanish_War/english/esw_1)

‘I know it is the fashion to say that most of recorded history is lies anyway. I am willing to believe that history is for the most part inaccurate and biased, but what is peculiar to our own age is the abandonment of the idea that history could be truthfully written. In the past people deliberately lied, or they unconsciously coloured what they wrote, or they struggled after the truth, well knowing that they must make many mistakes; but in each case they believed that ‘facts’ existed and were more or less discoverable. And in practice there was always a considerable body of fact which would have been agreed to by almost everyone….

… It is just this common basis of agreement, with its implication that human beings are all one species of animal, that totalitarianism destroys. Nazi theory indeed specifically denies that such a thing as ‘the truth’ exists. There is, for instance, no such thing as ‘Science’. There is only ‘German Science’, ‘Jewish Science’, etc. The implied objective of this line of thought is a nightmare world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event, ‘It never happened’ — well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five — well, two and two are five. This prospect frightens me much more than bombs…

[and this is the situation we are now in: are we to believe that 2+2=5 because they say that Covid19 is a deadly disease that can only be cured by indefinite totalitarian rule, while in reality Covid19 is nothing more than flu]

…. Against that shifting phantasmagoric world in which black may be white tomorrow and yesterday’s weather can be changed by decree, there are in reality only two safeguards. One is that however much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing, as it were, behind your back, and you consequently can’t violate it in ways that impair military efficiency. The other is that so long as some parts of the earth remain unconquered, the liberal tradition can be kept alive.

[so we know what to do: strive for truth, and keep dissenting opinion open in ‘the open society’, but Orwell continues]

Let Fascism, or possibly even a combination of several Fascisms, conquer the whole world, and those two conditions no longer exist. We in England underrate the danger of this kind of thing, because our traditions and our past security have given us a sentimental belief that it all comes right in the end and the thing you most fear never really happens. Nourished for hundreds of years on a literature in which Right invariably triumphs in the last chapter, we believe half-instinctively that evil always defeats itself in the long run. Pacifism, for instance, is founded largely on this belief. Don’t resist evil, and it will somehow destroy itself. But why should it? What evidence is there that it does? And what instance is there of a modern industrialized state collapsing unless conquered from the outside by military force?

[to which I would say: don’t despair. We have had plenty of times that we had to believe that 2+2=5, just think of all the wars in which we had to support our troops who were on a peace mission in syriraquistan, which were/are in reality wars about oil and gas and who controls the lever. So we have been there before, which is bad enough, yet society survived. Society will survive again, but, surely it would be something if we could accomplish that they are not capable to convince society this time that 2+2=5. To me, that is the thing we are trying to achieve here, and elsewhere and which is worth the time and energy for the struggle]

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:14 PM
Reply to  Willem

And what instance is there of a modern industrialized state collapsing unless conquered from the outside by military force?

The Soviet Union.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 8:15 PM
Reply to  clickkid

plus satelites.

Willem
Willem
Apr 11, 2020 8:25 PM
Reply to  clickkid

Good one. Thanks for that

NickyJenkins
NickyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 6:48 PM

Greetings from the west Wales coast UK, this website has been mentioned by a poster on the tivysideadvertiser and you would think this was a place full of anarchistical dropouts with far too much time on their hands, and what do I find, ballanced journalism with links to the sources, a lobby for people to discuss event which looks incredibly civil compared to the tivy with people actually debating in a respectful and informative manner which leads me to ask if I am in the right place as according to some on the tivy you people here are lunatics, conspiracy theorists and anarchists.

Thank you for a wonderful website that appears to be on the button regarding current affairs and a forum where petty insane squabbling is not obvious, ( I haven’t seen any petty minded squabbles here yet)

In my area of Cardigan Bay, last Thursday at 8pm my neighbours went outside and clapped for the NHS, I am disgusted in them, two family members work in the general hospital in Carmarthen and have said they are bored out of thier skulls, they saw 5 people all day yesterday, and my neighbours are under the illusion that it busting with very sick people with covid19, I never realised just how many hysterical people there are in my immediate area, I can never look at them in the same vein ever again.

clickkid
clickkid
Apr 11, 2020 7:08 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Nice to have you here Nicky -looking forward to your contribution.

Now that you’ve priased us or not being petty-minded, we’ll have to try and live up to it.

Betrayed Planet
Betrayed Planet
Apr 11, 2020 7:11 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

I laughed when I read your post. I live in the Beacon’s and I had the identical situation with my neighbours. The hypocrisy of it all burns. Also my son, an A/E doc said he is bored, hardly anyone attending A/E. What is going on? I have just read in the now offensive Guardian, Wintour asking the question as to what comes when this is over. What ” New World Order” will be created and who will run it. Astonished at the gullibility of people however there are signs that a decent % are not swallowing the hype or rather hysteria.

NickyJenkins
NickyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 7:22 PM

The police and the army ready to enforce the new world order, not just them, jobsworths in the local Tesco store have pushed me to do all my shopping in Aldi where they are much more chilled and relaxed and some staff not buying the narrative being fed either, shopping in Tesco’s here is like stepping back in time to 1930’s Berlin, I wanted to scream at some staff that they are only shop assistants but that would not be fair on the majority of staff who are very nice. We are banned from our beaches here, council closed coastal paths and police stopping us to ask who we are and where we are going, it cant go on much longer, people eventually/hopefully will have to bite back.

NickyJenkins
NickyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 7:23 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Forgot to add, I love my avatar, not a million miles away from the reality that is moi! 😉 🙂

marvin
marvin
Apr 11, 2020 9:36 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Yes – i do that too ! I go into a shop – if i find they are acting like little Nazi’s – then i walk out and find one that is far more laid back !! So far i have found B+M’s pretty good, my local SPAR, the OneStop shop, Lidl and Poundland to be very laid back. I went into Sainsbury’s with a family member and the family member was pounced on and asked to leave as they said they now have a one person policy !! I won’t be shopping there ever again ! I intend to remember which shops acted like idiots long after this nonsense is done with !!

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 11, 2020 8:08 PM
Reply to  NickyJenkins

Shwmae Nicky a chroeso cynnes.

Mae gynon ni hyd yn oed ychydig siaradwyr Cymraeg yma. (Dim ond dysgwr ydw i 🙂 )

Welai di yma eto yn fuan, gobeithio.

Hwyl fawr.

Hi Nicky, and a warm welcome.

We even have some Welsh speakers here. (I’m only a learner 🙂 ).

See you here again soon, I hope.

Cheers.

NIckyJenkins
NIckyJenkins
Apr 11, 2020 8:51 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

noswaith dda mike,

dwi’n dda iawn diolch, I actually hail from Plymouth Devon, but of Welsh parentage and strong family links here, I speak a little which always goes down well with the natives, English is the 2cd language here and it really is a delight to see young mothers chatting and singing to their newborns in Welsh when they are out shopping etc, Welsh language alive and kicking here and sure you would be welcomed with open arms, I only have to say Diolch yn Fawr to get the big thumbs up.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
Apr 12, 2020 1:08 AM
Reply to  NIckyJenkins

Da iawn! Initially started learning with Say Something in Welsh. A great bunch of people. When I started, the level one course was totally free, and they had levels 2 & 3 that you could pay for via a subscription model.

I think it’s different now, and you might only get a few lessons free and then start paying, but it’s still great value. I’m still subscribing.

They’ve branched out into other languages, but that was developing slowly last I heard, but it may have taken off more recently.

One great thing they do with Welsh was a “bootcamp”. 7 days in a communal living setting with NO English. I did 2 of these,in Tresaith, Ceredigion, and they also ran them in North Wales. Only did 4 a year (2 north 2 south). Great place, Tresaith: reminded me of “The Prisoner”. 🙂

They have separate courses for North Walian and South Walian, and they are recorded by “native speakers” of the respective dialects. I can’t say enough good things about SSIW. 🙂

Haven’t done too much active learning recently, but I Skype once a week with a chap in Wales who didn’t learn Welsh when young and is catching up with his heritage, as it were. He’s quite into literature (doesn’t have to be hifalutin) so we tend to go through passages from books together, which is not too taxing, but quite rewarding in terms of vocabulary, and also culture to some extent.

Hwyl am y tro.
Bye for now. 🙂

ame
ame
Apr 11, 2020 6:39 PM

NHS website as of now
QUOTE we are pausing the collection and publication of these and some of our official statistics UNQUOTE
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/critical-care-capacity/

Ted
Ted
Apr 11, 2020 6:07 PM

Sigh … even as overall rates show the original models to be wildly, dangerously wrong. Today the New York Times releases another deep state powerpoint that presents wildly inflated numbers, should they end totalitarian rule too soon….

http://ocregister.ca.newsmemory.com/?publink=1732ef16c

Willem
Willem
Apr 11, 2020 6:35 PM
Reply to  Ted

Boycot the New York Times

John ErvIn
John ErvIn
Apr 11, 2020 7:00 PM
Reply to  Willem

Hell, those CIA assets there have an impregnable paywall now. I used to read it online at my libraries, out of morbid curiosity for research on their unique brand of propaganda.

Now, they block even most of the libraries, those pimps.

Alan Tench
Alan Tench
Apr 11, 2020 7:45 PM
Reply to  John ErvIn

When did the NYT start a paywall? They’ve made it free now for the duration of the panic-demic, but I recall it was free a few weeks ago.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Apr 11, 2020 7:10 PM
Reply to  Ted

NYT is absolute horse cock.

livingsb
livingsb
Apr 12, 2020 12:19 AM
Reply to  Ted

Fuck the NYT.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Apr 11, 2020 6:03 PM

The lastest SWEDISH UPDATE from the Daily Mail is out.

jim
jim
Apr 12, 2020 5:36 PM
Reply to  Seamus Padraig

As predicted the Sweden-bashing has already started:

“Sweden’s flawed coronavirus battle plan hits the poor & elderly, resulting in worst death count among Nordic countries”

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/485522-sweden-coronavirus-worst-death-count/

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:52 AM
Reply to  jim

Is it true or not?

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Apr 13, 2020 12:50 PM

One would need to compare this to something comparable, say past flu-seasons? Although these numbers are minuscule by comparison. Time will tell in Sweden, or course.

Greg Bacon
Greg Bacon
Apr 11, 2020 5:58 PM

What we’re seeing here is a controlled demolition of the world’s economy. On 9/11, that type of planned destruction led to nearly 19 years of “Let’s kill Muzzies” fear that worked wonderfully for those asshats that were behind the 9/11 False Flag.

Now the same schlockmeisters are back, and this time, they’re hiding the Wall Street pigs greed of not being able to support the 1.5 QUADRILLION derivatives bets from collapsing and taking down Wall Street and markets all over the West, but we don’t hear about those bad bets being covered, we’re being told endlessly, “You’re going to DIE unless you give up civil liberties and get a Bill Gates approved vaccine!”

Pieter Vermeulen
Pieter Vermeulen
Apr 12, 2020 3:00 PM
Reply to  Greg Bacon

In his book entitled Confessions of a Medical Heretic, Dr Robert Mendelsohn MD indicates that belief in the ‘authority’ of the medical establishment is misplaced. He expands on his discussion of the problems with ‘modern medicine’ by reference to similarities between beliefs, religion and ‘modern medicine’. He describes the medical establishment as ‘the church of modern medicine’ and justifies this description with the statement that:

“Modern medicine can’t survive without our faith, because modern medicine is neither an art nor a science; it’s a religion… Just ask ‘why’ enough times and sooner or later you’ll reach the chasm of faith.”

Science is an ongoing process of enquiry and discovery; this means that scientists should reassess theories that have been found to be flawed and generate more compelling explanations for the phenomena under review. Yet the ‘germ theory’, which can be shown to be fundamentally flawed, has not been subjected to any rigorous reassessment. If it had been, scientists would have discovered that the theory is contradicted by a significant volume of empirical evidence, which is normally regarded as paramount. The intransigence of the scientific community on this topic has turned the ‘germ theory’ into dogma, not science.

Dr Mendelsohn recommends that people ask the question ‘why’; but the problems with the ‘germ theory’ require that people also ask the question ‘how’; were they to do so, they would soon encounter the ‘chasm of faith’, which is likely to manifest as the familiar phrase, ‘trust me, I’m a doctor’.

COVID-19, as depicted in the media, is an exosome. Exosomes are beneficial messengers in our immune system that have been known for 30 years now and if you apply the power of language to any kind of particle you can observe using an electron microscope, this can greatly influence the way in which scientific research is carried out (or not).

James Hildreth, M.D., former professor at Johns Hopkins HIV Research Centre:”… the ‘virus’ is fully an exosome in every sense of the word.”

Kary Banks Mullis (December 28, 1944 – August 7, 2019) was an American biochemist. In recognition of his invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) technique, he shared the 1993 Nobel Prize in Chemistry with Michael Smith and was awarded the Japan Prize in the same year. Kary Banks Mullis:”The scientific papers to even proof the existence of an HIV-virus are not there.”

Napoleon:”One day it will be discovered that you, physicians, are responsible for more deaths than all us generals put together …”

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
Apr 13, 2020 11:55 AM

When I started working in hospitals, neurologists declared, to a man, that brain damage and decline was irreversible. Then they discovered otherwise. Generally they do seem to learn from experience, but often very slowly and only when the Head of Department turns up his toes.