469

Asking Questions of The Other Considering Michigan’s Protests in Lockdown Time

Christine E. Black

I belong to one of the historic peace churches. Where I worship there is a sign in the hallway that has become dear to me. It is known as the Quaker Peace Testimony, a Declaration to Charles II in 1660. It says:

We utterly deny all outward wars and strife and fightings with outward weapons, for any end, or under any pretence whatsoever; and this is our testimony to the whole world.”

It goes on to describe the spirit of Christ, as the writer sees it.

The language is lovely and poetic.

I would never carry a gun to a public protest, and I have been in many public protests and demonstrations, especially against the U.S. government’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sometimes counter-protestors screamed in our faces or blocked our way or created a gauntlet through which we had to walk while being screamed at in close proximity. In one, I wondered afterwards why the DC police stood by and let the screaming and blocking happen.

I have never owned a gun and have no interest in owning one. I don’t remember ever touching a gun. I know very little about them. Last week, I watched, along with others in this country, as men, and some women, carried guns, in the open, to the steps of the Michigan state capital and then into the capital building.

If I was a reporter covering the story of that protest and some of the protestors appeared carrying guns, I would want to ask one or two of them, “Why did you decide to bring a gun to this demonstration, and carry it out in the open?” Because they made a decision so different than the one I would make and because this virus and lockdown have created such a climate of fear and panic amid a storm of daily conflicting opinions and information, I would be genuinely interested in their response. It may help with understanding.

I would want to include their comments in my story on the protest and others like it, protests that have been written about in various ways all across US and international newspapers with reporters saying the gun-carrying protestors are “Right-wing extremists,” “White Supremacists,” and “Nazis.” I have read of Swastikas and Confederate flags and nooses being present.*

If I was there with my notepad, I may ask: “What are you protesting, and why are you here with a gun?”

When I was a reporter for a paper in North Carolina years ago, I often knocked on doors in what, many thought, were dangerous neighborhoods, or I talked to people out in the street, so I could learn and get a clearer picture of an incident or a trend.

More recently, while working in rural areas where many people own guns, know about different types, perhaps collect them, I have come to understand that Second Amendment rights advocates may be hunters or sportsmen who use guns, but they also argue that the purpose of the Second Amendment of the Constitution, the right to bear arms, is to protect the citizens against government tyranny.

I may not agree with this. I may not have thought about it as deeply as many people obviously have.

The gun-carrying man at the Michigan capital may have government over-control, even tyranny, on his mind as the government has recently ordered businesses closed, rendering many unable to work. Some of the signs in various protests have read, “Let Me Work” or “I Want to Work.” Perhaps the government is becoming or has become what this protestor fears the most?

I do not think I would be afraid to politely approach him and ask him my questions.

His gun is out in the open, as is legal in that state and others. I may not agree with that law. Lately, some gun owners have told me that they would not carry a gun openly in that situation, because they feel that it would scare people and would send the wrong message and may even distract from the message the protestors hope to convey.

And yet, this man with a weapon in the open, has come to the place where he feels so desperate or cornered or emphatic that he has made this decision.

Because he is very different from me, I would want to hear from him.

A friend said that the governor in Michigan prohibited people from fishing on their boats during this lockdown. I have not researched whether or not this is true.

But I know from learning about people very different from me, who own guns, maybe farm, hunt and fish, build and fix things, work outdoors a lot, that if the state or federal government told this man he could not work to support himself and his family, maybe his business was forced to close – and we were not sure how long this government control would go on – and, in addition, he could not fish on a public lake in his own boat, he would not like it. At all.

He may even begin to feel desperate and angry and trapped. He may decide to go to a public protest and carry a weapon openly.

I do not believe I would be afraid to approach this man to ask my questions because his message (and even his weapon) are in the open. The barrel of the gun is pointed downwards, however. I do not believe I would be afraid of getting shot. Though I have no interest in owning a gun and know almost nothing about them, and may not agree with the laws that allow some people to have them, in rural areas where I have worked, I have known many men who own guns and who do know a lot about them.

They may collect them, clean them, build them, use them safely for hunting or other sports. They may believe guns are needed for protection. I am not entirely sure what they do with their guns.

However, I have never been afraid that one of them would shoot me or someone I care about. I know many to be kind-hearted men, law-biding people engaging in lawful activities, laws that I did not create, may not agree with or even fully understand. And yet, I have often felt safer with some of these men, who have become friends, than I have felt in the past with some people I have known, sadly, people who do not own guns, never have, but who do their malice in cowardice and in secret.

More than 20 thousand people gathered in Richmond in January to support Second Amendment rights. I read that there were no injuries, no arrests, and that participants even picked up their own trash. I thought that was admirable.

As for Confederate flags in Michigan (not sure about the Swastika or why it would be singled out for a picture on the news), a flag is just that – a flag. Some people may be wrong about it, but who am I to interpret its meaning to someone else? A flag does not shoot someone. A person does. I may think it’s inappropriate to carry a Confederate flag to a protest, but it is not against the law.

Similarly, I could stand on a street corner with a sign that says, “All wars are wrong” or “This war is wrong. End it” and someone could scream in my face that I was unpatriotic, hated this country, was a traitor, or was helping to get their son killed, their son who was fighting in a war that I was protesting.

In the early days of the US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, wars most of the public now agree were horrible mistakes, I remember a news commentator criticizing protestors aggressively on TV: “Once troops are committed, you shut up!” he said.

He would have not liked me standing on that corner with my sign.

Others critics may say I was not supporting the soldier, for instance, or I was lowering the morale of the troops because those troops may see Americans carrying signs against the war while American soldiers were getting shot at in another country. If troop morale is low, troops may be more vulnerable to getting shot and killed, critics may argue (or shout in my face).

All these charges have been leveled against peace activists who protest the money and lives spent on the government’s wars.

Some have said that soldiers fight in wars so that I am able to stand there with my sign. Some have said that conscientious objectors were wrong to object while some men were drafted to fight and others volunteered. I may not agree with or understand this thinking.

Those who oppose the government’s wars have been accused of getting more people killed; anti-lockdown protestors are recently accused of getting more people killed from this virus.

If some guy wants to show up at an anti-lockdown protest with a Confederate flag, I may think he’s wrong, may not like the flag or its history. The guy may be racist, or he may not be racist at all. He may be wrong or misinformed about the flag’s history or its meaning to some people; however, I cannot jump inside his head and know what that flag means to him at that time when he decided to bring it to carry.

It’s a flag. It doesn’t shoot someone any more than my anti-war sign shoots someone. He has a right to carry as dumb a sign or flag as he wants to. He has the right to think that my sign is dumb or naive or misguided.

I would never show up at a protest with a sign that says, “Jesus is My Vaccine,” but I have seen that sign in a picture of an anti-lockdown protest.

I could be wrong or deluded or not have enough information, but I get a flu shot most years and take my teenaged son to get them too. I took my children to get all doctor-recommended vaccines. I know that many people feel strongly about vaccines and their risks or harms. I often question government and mainstream media information and regularly seek alternative sources.

I remember being overwhelmed and sad at Target recently, trying to pick water bottles for my sons that were good quality and did not have BPA, which I read could cause cancer or other health problems. I wondered why in a country with expensive bureaucracies, tasked with testing products and ingredients for public safety, would a mom like me have to stand there for almost an hour, worrying about which water bottle would be safe to buy for my sons.

Some men at anti-lockdown protests are wearing desert camo. Do they have desert camo in the middle of spring in the U.S. because they bought it at an army supply store, or are they vets who were they sent to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

I could ask them.

Most of the population in this country acquiesced, or even rallied support, while both Democrat and Republican politicians voted year after year to fund those wars, sending about 8 percent of the population, mostly men, to multiple combat tours, some as many as 8 or 10 tours, which is physical and psychological savagery.

That many deployments caused immeasurable harm and often permanent mental and physical injuries. The U.S. government’s Stop Loss policy forced many service members to stay in the military past the terms of their original contracts and many to go to war repeatedly.

In DC with a mother of an Iraq War veteran and thousands of others, I protested the government’s Stop Loss policy, which many thought was tyrannical. I still remember the looks of contempt of people who shouted at us. They saddened and confused me.

Previous wars sent men into combat once, sometimes twice; those 8-10 multiple deployments were unprecedented. At Fort Bragg, one of the largest military bases in the world, I learned recently that most of the population at the base and the surrounding town voted for Trump – and probably will again.

I have wondered why this is. We could ask and listen. This issue may be worth thinking about and reading about in our newspapers and magazines as we are entering another presidential election in several months.

Journalists have noted that anti-lockdown protests have few or no black or brown people present. I was pleased to hear an NPR story this past weekend on who is doing the so-called essential jobs during the government lockdowns. The answer is black and brown people, mostly women.

They are changing bedpans and giving baths in nursing homes, working in chicken factories, checking groceries, working at drive-through fast food places. I see many Mexican men laying pipe, repairing roads, running power lines. Black and brown people may not be attending protests because they are working, harder than most people in ordinary times and even harder now, or they are exhausted, working at jobs others often do not want to do now – and did not want to do before lockdown. This virus panic exposes important socio-economic, race, and class issues. I hope we continue examining these issues as time and panic passes.

Highly-paid TV or large media journalists, politicians, and bureaucrats still have incomes and are able to work from home computers. When they question where black and brown people are at anti-lockdown protests, I may wonder – who is cleaning their houses, taking care of their elderly parents, doing their hair and make-up and nails (if they are on TV), tending their yards and gardens, nannying their children? Who is doing the farm work and working in the dairy plants?

In this time of crisis, panic, and confusion, we have a lot to learn from people different from us who probably want many of the same things all of us do. I would not carry a gun to a protest, but that guy in Michigan and I may have common concerns. I also dislike government over-control, lockdown and widespread panic and confusion.

Further, I have protested the government’s control over war-making with its ensuing waste, losses, and destruction. The guy with a gun in Michigan and I may both have old parents and children in school.

We may share worries about sickness and death, getting the information we need to care for ourselves and our families, being able to make decisions about work and having enough money to survive and provide for children as they need us.

In this time of worldwide panic and confusion, with information changing every day, we may learn by thinking independently, by talking and questioning dominant narratives that too-often pit us against each other.

Christine E. Black’s work has been published in The American Journal of Poetry, New Millennium Writings, Nimrod International, The Virginia Journal of Education, Friends Journal, Sojourners Magazine, English Journal, Amethyst Review, and other publications. Her poetry has been nominated for a Pushcart Prize and the Pablo Neruda Prize. Her essays have been published in Off-Guardian, Cold Type, Global Research, Joyful Dissent, and other publications.

can you spare $1.00 a month to support independent media

Unlike the Guardian we are NOT funded by Bill & Melinda Gates, or any other NGO or government. So a few coins in our jar to help us keep going are always appreciated.

Our Bitcoin JTR code is: 1JR1whUa3G24wXpDyqMKpieckMGGW2u2VX

5 1 vote
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
469 Comments
newest
oldest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
David Latham
David Latham
Jun 25, 2020 11:51 PM

Christine your open mindedness and willingness to consider the thoughts, opinions and concerns of others makes you unique in this day of 24/7/365 news coverage. Keep up the good work!

WildWestStarMan
WildWestStarMan
May 24, 2020 2:26 AM

I am A proud Mexican American.
I support the Constitution to all of its ends and edges
I support public option healthcare, more money to food stamps/education and public programs.
I am staunch civil liberties support, and privacy advocate.
I am traditional and believe in traditional gender roles.
I feel 9/11 was a lie for power and profit, as is CVD19.

I am solid gun owner, and feel it is our last option for preservation of rights no matter how fleeting they may be. I think Trump is a fool and Obama is a criminal.
I am hard to pin down politically or culturally.
I am NOT unique, there is millions who feel like me I think, and in these treacherous times we need to find each other and become friends and allies.
Want to know what the ‘other side’ side is like? ASK THEM. You will find you have 99.% in common.

luke2236
luke2236
May 20, 2020 2:57 AM

Sorry Ms Black – you are clueless.
You are correct that those people protesting WITH their guns in hand would not shoot you ; in fact, those are the ONLY people, quite frankly, that would not. The cops and the govt would GLADLY kill you for disagreeing with the narrative.
We carry our guns because that is ALL (((they))) understand; reason holds no sway and right is contrary to their way of thinking. The fear of violence is ALL they ‘get’.
‘blacks and browns doing all the work’?!?!?! What universe do you live in? The reason that you see WHITE people at these protests is that white people are the ones that have something to lose; the blacks and browns just continue on the merry way of welfare and dont care. Also, and most importantly, white people are the ONLY group that has ever even conceptualised freedom, individual liberties and Republican government. Read a little real history.
[oh, and btw…thats what that Confederate flag stands for…]

George Mc
George Mc
May 21, 2020 8:19 AM
Reply to  luke2236

“white people are the ONLY group that has ever even conceptualised freedom” by enslaving the rest!

Fair dinkum
Fair dinkum
May 21, 2020 10:50 AM
Reply to  luke2236

‘Read a little real history’
Would that include the blood soaked history of the world’s empire builders as they stole, raped, slaughtered and destroyed anything or anyone that stood in their way?

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 11:03 PM

Video: Angelika Barbe statement after brutal arrest at Berlin demonstration. https://www.mmnews.de/politik/144832-video-angelika-barbe-statement-nach-brutaler-verhaftung-bei-berlin-demo

GDR civil rights activist Angelika Barbe (68) was arrested last Saturday at the Berlin demonstration on Alexanderplatz. A video shows the police’s brutal actions. In conversation with Michael Mross, she describes the background.

from Vera Lengsfeld

While a former GDR lawyer was elected constitutional judge in the state parliament of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, on Saturday scenes took place on Alexanderplatz that we knew from GDR days and never thought we would have to experience again.

The police arrested my old friend Angelika Barbe, a comrade-in-arms since the days of the Pankow Peace Circle, co-founder of the SDP, later SPD of the GDR, colleague in the first joint Bundestag after reunification, co-founder of the Citizens’ Office for the Victims of the SED tyranny.

Here the officials, who remained passive against the Antiifa, who, in contrast to Angelika, really demonstrated on the Alex, who preferred to “de-escalate” at the revolutionary May Day demonstrations against masked hooligans than to take action, who preferred to show leniency towards criminal clans than to stop criminal activities, proceeded with all severity.

Sending a handicapped elderly lady is also safe. I have always had a great deal of sympathy for the police and taken their side when they were denounced by the left, but the action taken against Angelika Barbe is unworthy and fundamentally unlawful. For Article 2 (2) still applies: Everyone has the right to life and physical integrity. The freedom of the person is inviolable. These rights may only be encroached upon on the basis of a law. (https://vera-lengsfeld.de)

Statement Angelika Barbe:

This arrest is shocking in several ways, not only because of the degrading film footage.
We arrived at the Alex at about 2:50 p.m., which was not very busy, and were surprised about a cordoned-off area in the middle of the square. I turned to a policeman, who kindly explained to me that this was the approved part for the Antifa demo.

If we wanted to participate in it, we could do it. In the meantime several passers-by had become curious, we started talking. Suddenly I was barked at by a policeman with the number 34113, I should leave the Alex. Perplexed, I answered that I was here with a friend and my husband, that I wanted to talk to people and also go shopping.

He was obviously angry that I did not obey his order immediately. He immediately verbally sent me off. In surprise I turned to another policeman and asked him why the Antifa was protected but we passers-by were not allowed to stay.

He also asked me to leave. I relented and explained that I wanted to go shopping, but he let me go on. A few moments later, 34 113 came storming after me and shouted: “No, we’ll report them!” 
Thereupon about 5 policemen rushed at me from behind, two took my arms brutally and mercilessly, dragged me on by force, two flanked the attack.

As I recently had a knee operation and I am still suffering from pain, I cannot run so fast and I kept shouting that they should be slow and not rush me, I would not resist and go myself. On the contrary, they ran faster, still twisted my arm and bent my left hand, which the spectators could not see. I pointed at my knee scar and desperately asked to walk slowly.

They saw this as resistance. 


It was an arbitrary arrest, I did not resist and was fished out of the discussion group. My husband asked the policemen why they had arrested me of all people, especially since several of them were also standing on the square and remained undisturbed.
He then waited far away from other passers-by in front of the barrier where the reports were made and was ordered to leave Alexanderplatz immediately. He replied that he was waiting for me.

Thereupon he was also arrested in proven GDR-clan custody for alleged “endangerment of security”. After one and a half hours we were sent off for May 16 and each of us received a report. They did not explain what for. Actually we were only prevented from listening to the Antifa.

They did not accuse us of not keeping the distance or not wearing a muzzle. 
At Christmas, grannies were still denigrated as environmental swine and now they are being taken away when they are standing where they should not be. But no order has yet been given for pensioners to cross the crossroads when it is red. 
Shocking was aggression and the police’s use of force.

Shocking was the arbitrary access of any single person from the crowd. 
The aim was to create fear with totally inappropriate, totally excessive and disproportionate use of force against non-violent citizens.


They wanted to avoid images from the previous week, when thousands of people on the Alex shouted “Freedom” and “We are all the people”.
When the law no longer applies, then we are all at the mercy of the state’s arbitrariness – even with regard to compulsory vaccinations. That is why demonstrations are and will remain important for freedom.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 11:11 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

https://wikihausen.de/2020/05/11/grundgesetz-demonstration-in-oldenburg-vom-02-05-2020-menschenwuerde-demo-de-wikihausen-vor-ort/
Saturday, 02 May 2020: As in the week before, another demonstration for the preservation of the basic rights enshrined in the Basic Law took place in Oldenburg at 15:30 hrs. This time about 100 citizens came to the Schlossplatz, which doubled the number of participants within one week. The police had to block the square for additional demonstrators due to the hygiene regulations, which prevented about 20 more people from entering the area. The initiator of the demonstration, Mrs. Friederike Pfeiffer, placed human dignity in the center of the demonstration. The protesters’ displeasure with the corona regulations was expressed in numerous speeches. Especially because the now proven low risk posed by the Sars-COV2 virus does not in the least justify the severe restrictions on the basic rights of citizens, the participants of the rally assume that corruption in the ranks of the Federal Government is the real reason for the numerous measures that are contrary to the constitution. They see this as a fundamental threat to democracy. Bill Gates in particular, who wants to vaccinate 7 billion people against Corona, enjoys a highly dubious reputation, according to a participant in the rally. For example, some participants considered monetary donations from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to the Robert Koch Institute and the Charité as a possible reason why the institutions mentioned regularly published grossly distorted accounts of the situation regarding the Corona pandemic. Especially the distorted reporting of the established media was a thorn in the side of the participants. Differing opinions to the one of virologist Dr. Drosten and the Robert Koch Institute were only insufficiently presented in the mainstream media. The financing of a project by “Der Spiegel” with 2.3 million euros in donations from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation could be the reason for the patchy reporting of the former news magazine. During the last demonstration the question was raised where the antifa is when you need it. This time there were about 6 people present who could be assigned to this circle. They greeted passers-by in their usual friendly manner with a “fuck off! Obviously the persons, who were all hooded and did not want to be recognized under any circumstances, had only come to spin out the rally. Subsequently, from this group of people, untenable and completely fantasized accusations about the demonstrators were published. This resulted in a criminal complaint against the slanderers. From the defamations it can be seen that the troublemakers, all of whom were dressed in black uniforms, must have come not from the radical left but from the right-wing extremist and nationalist camp. For some time now, experts have suspected that this violent grouping is being controlled by one or more foreign secret services. What is striking in any case is that these rioters observed by the Verfassungsschutz frequently appear as counter-demonstrators at peace rallies. Friederieke Pfeiffer has placed information about the rally on a newly created homepage about the demonstration. The website menschenwuerde-demo.de also contains further information on the following demonstrations, which will have to be moved to another site due to the expected increase in the number of participants.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 11:12 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

https://wikihausen.de/2020/05/11/grundgesetz-demonstration-in-oldenburg-09-11-2020-menschenwuerde-demo-de-wikihausen-vor-ort/
Oldenburg, 09 May 2020, On the Schlossplatz, a demonstration for the preservation of basic rights took place once again on Saturday at 15:30. While last time more than 200 people were present at the rally, which was only permitted with 80 people, this time exactly 200 people were admitted to the rally by the city. On and around the area surrounded by a barrier tape, however, this time there were more than 500 demonstration participants about one hour after the event started. While the police were still very relaxed and friendly at the last rallies, this time the situation was much more tense, which could be seen from the sometimes harsh instructions of the officers. The police squad requested from outside had to separate the registered large rally from about 20 people, who obviously formed an unauthorized counter-demonstration in front of the barrier tape. The counter-demonstrators, who were completely masked, obviously wanted to disrupt the main demonstration and chanted wild insults and hate messages in a chorus and used the compressed air horns known from the football stadium to spread disturbing noise. The participants of the main rally were generally insulted as anti-Semites, Nazis and conspiracy ideologists. Many of those who were thus degraded were deeply affected and angry because they initially suspected that the counter-demonstrators in the Antifa camp were all very young. However, this was not the leftist Antifa. The counter-demonstrators were right-wing extremist nationalists, who as a rule are unreservedly in favour of wars that were and are being instigated by the US and Israeli governments. They advocate a violent expansion of the Israeli state by force of arms at the expense of the neighbouring states and also demand, for example, a nuclear first strike and war of aggression against Iran. In this country, these dangerous and violent psychopaths are conspicuous by the fact that they demand a world without borders and gladly also the atomic destruction of the German state, as one can read and hear for example in the lyrics of the rappers “Antilopengang” in the song “Baggersee”. The Office for the Protection of the Constitution refers to members of this extremist worldview as so-called anti-Germans. A more appropriate term, however, is TransatlANTIFA, because this militant group always fully supports the market radical and warmongering policies of the transatlantic alliance. Supporters of this dangerous ideology can now be found widely in numerous left-wing parties, the Fridays For Future Climate Movement and in the mainstream media, which could explain why they report in a concerted manner on the nationwide demonstrations to preserve the German constitution in a false manner. Even simple questions to the counter-demonstrators could or would not be answered by them. The Basic Law demonstration, which took place under the leitmotif of human dignity, was characterized by several physicians present, who this time pointed out in numerous contributions that the current corona regulations cannot be scientifically justified and are therefore unconstitutional. Individual participants in the demonstration compared the regulations with the Enabling Act in the Third Reich. In this context, the Bill-and-Melinda-Gates Foundation was pointed out several times, which determines the policy of the World Health Organization and apparently also has great influence on German policy via the Robert Koch Institute, which it co-finances. The question arose as to why German politicians adopt the views and vaccination recommendations of a Bill Gates who has no expertise in medicine or biology. In particular, compulsory vaccinations against corona with an mRNA vaccine that has not been sufficiently tested for safety aroused the anger of the demonstrators. They saw this as a gross violation of the integrity of the human body guaranteed in Article 2 of the Basic Law.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 11:19 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Homburg
https://ideas.repec.org/p/han/dpaper/dp-671.html

“The paper assesses the effectiveness of the large-scale lockdowns that took place during the SARS-CoV-2 (corona) pandemic. Countries considered include the United States, South Korea, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, and Sweden. Our research strategy utilizes the fact that fatal outcomes follow infections with a delay of 23 days. Therefore, the dates of the actual infections can be inferred from the data. The results suggest that lockdowns were superfluous and ineffective.”

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
May 20, 2020 2:01 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

Thank you for the work you put in translating that material.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 21, 2020 10:00 PM
Reply to  Tim Drayton

Thank you very much for your appreciation.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 10:47 PM

Merkel & Macron distribute the tax money of their citizens with the watering can. These
creatures lack any instinct for the proportionality of sums. All this is to be repaid one day.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/merkel-and-macron-roll-out-e500-billion-covid-19-recovery-initiative/

Allmighty G7 countries by gdp at the time of their foundation (left)
compared to today (right). Conclusion: G7 is just a cabinet of jokes.
They are not “the greats of the world”. Only EU member is Germany.

comment image

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 10:50 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

The EU is nothing more than a liability and redistribution community.
The above is from the book by Markus Miller “Financial Self-Defence”.
https://www.m-vg.de/finanzbuchverlag/shop/article/17183-finanzielle-selbstverteidigung/

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 10:58 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

The technical term for this is “cold expropriation”. The EU
is a globalist cartel for the expropriation of its citizens.

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
May 20, 2020 12:20 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

@Coronacrap. Your posts are interesting but not always on-topic. Please keep observations concise to avoid long strings of messages in reply to yourself. This helps to keep our comments sectioned streamlined. Thank you. A2

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 21, 2020 10:17 PM
Reply to  Admin2

I understand your concern and appreciate your efforts to formulate it neutrally and objectively. Thank you for your appreciation, my distraction is not at all malicious. My intellect is dualistic and dialectical. As soon as I have a thought, the next thought comes immediately as the opposite pole: “But you can also look at it all quite differently!”

Actually, I don’t enjoy knowledge so much as the opportunity to get in touch by exchanging knowledge. At school my teachers regularly judged: “He has an above-average general knowledge, but no interest in school subjects!” That I have my general knowledge through my non-fixation did not make sense to them.
https://www.liveabout.com/mercury-in-gemini-mercury-signs-206922

I’m the one who knows what to say about everything at a party, I’m the opposite of a “Fachidiot” https://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Fachidiot.html. You could call it “brilliant sciolism.” 🙂

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 21, 2020 10:33 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

Btw., you Brits are “world memory champions”.
Just learned what a learning/forgetting curve is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Memory_Championships

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 21, 2020 10:46 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

“Fachidiots”, however, have by far the greatest chance of achieving fame and success. Recently, a talent trainer asked me why I’m not really a digital nomad? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_nomad

She asked me good questions. “What would you do if you had no money worries and everything you need is paid for?” I probably would have become a sound engineer.

Unfortunately I have tinnitus, which made this career wish impossible. In my youth I had often worked in recording studios, where interesting sound engineers were (mainly from the UK), always highly professional and super friendly.

That’s a world of its own. There, isolated from the rest of the everyday madness, you can follow your talent and influence the world through beautiful art. One reason I have a weakness for England.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 21, 2020 11:03 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

The happiest people are those who can combine their talent to enlighten and improve the world a little. Those who can write songs or write poetry, and at the same time have a soft spot for children, could write encouraging songs for kids suffering from cancer.

“Unfortunately”, our entire educational system is so oriented that it is all only about “economics” (and in the end personal enrichment). Although life is so short. There is still no subject “Happiness” in schools, although there is Happiness Research & Positive Psychology.

Everyone has a special talent and could use it to make the world a better place. But almost everyone is frustrated because they feel like victims of circumstances. In my opinion, this is the main reason for our problems. Our world is based on competition and not on cooperation.

Doctortrinate
Doctortrinate
May 19, 2020 9:45 PM

just chillin out by the charming lagoon, how naughty of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pBM8S_Fm0w

…. sort of sums up this whole comedic affair, with the kids debased, and willing to play along.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 9:43 PM

Didn’t Billy Idol sang “I don’t need a gun”?
***youtube.com/watch?v=MWe8Z1kY_u8
https://www.wired.com/story/guns-in-america-five-charts/

As a Brit he had to sing “I don’t need a knife” these
days, that wouldn’t change reality like his gun song.
https://qz.com/1212809/compare-us-mass-shootings-and-gun-control-to-germany-china-russia-switzerland-and-australia/

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 9:59 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

Chinese don’t need guns either, after
all they have mighty invisible viruses.
youtube.com/watch?v=WII9YWwe61Y

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 10:08 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

Evil animal world strikes back youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU

ame
ame
May 19, 2020 9:32 PM

U>k real world news

Claims to the value of more than £6 billion made to Self-Employment Income Support Scheme in first five days since opening
New HMRC statistics also show that 2 million claims had been made to the scheme by midnight on 17 May 2020

Claims to the value of more than £6 billion have been made to the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS) in the first five days since it opened, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has announced.

In a new weekly statistics release on take-up of the SEISS and the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (CJRS) issued today, HMRC reports that –

441,00 claims were made to the SEISS on the day it opened on 13 May 2020;
total claims increased to two million as at midnight on 17 May 2020; and
the value of claims made up to 17 May 2020 was £6.1 billion.
In addition, providing an update on CJRS claims data that, until recently, had only been published on HMRC’s twitter feed, it advises that –

almost one million employers (986,000) furloughed their staff between 20 April 2020 (when the CJRS opened for applications) and 17 May 2020;
eight million employees have been furloughed up to 17 May 2020; and
a total of £11.1 billion has been claimed from the scheme.
————————————————————————

More than four million people are now claiming universal credit, according to new DWP statistics
In Universal Credit: 29 April 2013 to 9 April 2020, published today, the DWP reports that there were 1.2 million starts to universal credit in the period 13 March 2020 to 9 April 2020, resulting in a claimant count of 4.2 million by the end of the period – a monthly increase of 40 per cent, as compared to an average monthly increase of 4 per cent in the year between April 2019 and March 2020.

note DWP doesn’t show if the claim are complete meaning did the claimants get the money or did the UC computer say no

Legal action launched challenging DWP’s continued application of benefit cap and deductions for advances during coronavirus pandemic
Leigh Day solicitor Carolin Ott said –
‘The increase to the universal credit standard allowance was intended to help the most vulnerable in society meet the extra costs they would face because of the COVID-19 pandemic. In fact, our client has been left worse off because the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has applied the benefit cap and advance payment deductions.

“Our client argues this is unlawful as it is irrational and discriminatory. The benefit cap is a measure intended to encourage benefit claimants into work but it is absurd for it to deprive individuals of much needed support during a time when it is entirely unrealistic for them to enter into employment.’

https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/Press-releases-2020/May-2020/Mother-launches-legal-case-after-benefit-cap-wipes

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/latest-figures-show-millions-benefitting-from-treasury-coronavirus-support-schemes

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/news/item/more-than-four-million-people-are-now-claiming-universal-credit

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 9:03 PM

NEW ZEALAND: YOU CANNOT SHOP UNLESS YOU ARE TRACED!

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 9:06 PM
Reply to  MoH

They are so blatantly doing everything they can to thwart every minute detail of our lives to make it is uncomfortable as possible. Food stores can get away with this but no other business can as people will just stay away. Businesses are the one group that should be fighting this tooth and nail but they say nothing

gordon
gordon
May 19, 2020 9:39 PM
Reply to  MoH

why would you shop in that store

i have already taken plenty of notes on the shops who refused my cash
trendy hipster bakeries run by zombie satanic twats with tattoo and beards
fuck em

baking my own bread grinding my own emmer wheat and rye

kenny gordon
kenny gordon
May 21, 2020 8:38 AM
Reply to  gordon

….what were the men like….and the way you’ve described the women, i’m not sure that i’d like to “fuck em”….but i’m with you on your sentiment….!!

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 9:25 PM
Reply to  MoH

Is this the law or just a couple of actors role-playing?

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 9:32 PM
Reply to  Julie

I dont know the intricacies and its doubtful that its ‘law’. Head girl globalist Jacinda Arden has given herself dictatorial powers so this is by decree. It looks real and I feel sorry for the girl as its not her fault, but this is yet more divide and conquer to get us bickering over their bullshit to keep us out of the way at home. I bet we get this is in the UK in two weeks max.

Another factor not being discussed is how all their measures are repeated in every country almost at the same time. Country A suggests 14 day quarantine after oversea travel and then they all do. Country B suggests psychological terror camps at schools (that would make Pol Pot blush) and then all the countries introduce the same torturous plans that they invert Orwellian style as ‘easing restrictions’

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 9:29 PM
Reply to  MoH

For contact tracing you are required to:

keep contact tracing records or register for all workers and those who carry out work for the business or service.

Note contact tracing records for customers are not required.

https://worksafe.govt.nz/managing-health-and-safety/novel-coronavirus-covid/covid-19-alert-level-2-public-health-requirements-what-you-need-to-know/

RealPeter
RealPeter
May 19, 2020 10:07 PM
Reply to  MoH

I’m a Kiwi (though I don’t live there). This is embarrassing.

How to deal with the situation:

1) Ask the poor checkout girl to call the manager. Sneeze in the manager’s face and tell him/her/it to stick his/her/its head where it belongs.

2) Go and do your shopping somewhere else.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
May 20, 2020 9:49 AM
Reply to  RealPeter

1b) Manager punches you in the face.

Tom
Tom
May 20, 2020 4:49 AM
Reply to  MoH

Happening in Malaysia too. We just write fake names and numbers. That itself tells you how stupid and pointless this whole thing is.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 8:37 PM

I recently quoted someone who published his books in English.
If you come from Europe, you must choose an American proxy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_Genesis
https://www.proxysite.com

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 9:42 PM
Reply to  Coronacrap

Another CIA honeypot? I hope not.

Coronacrap
Coronacrap
May 19, 2020 9:56 PM
Reply to  Julie

From a purely statistical point of view, this would mean unaffordable personnel expenses.

Kalen
Kalen
May 19, 2020 8:31 PM

Recruitment of mercenary surveillance and control army resembling Nazi Stormtroopers.

From CNBC

The U.S. government should pay people to enroll in a coronavirus contact tracing program, billionaire global investor Barry Sternlicht suggested Tuesday.1:09 pm ET — Global investor Barry Sternlicht suggested that the U.S. government should pay people to enroll in contact tracing programs.

“Once we can track the virus, we can deal with this virus,” the Starwood Capital founder said on “Squawk Box.”

Sternlicht said the payment could be between $500 to $1,000, serving as an incentive to get people to sign up.

“I think this contact tracing is a really big deal,” Sternlicht said, calling the public-health strategy “a game changer” in helping accelerate the U.S. economic recovery. —Kevin Stankiewicz

Boy these billionaires are cheap even in sounding taxpayer money in anyone but themselves.
We must denounce those fascist mercenaries sellouts.

In Nuremberg even secretaries were found guilty of crime against humanity by belonging to criminal organization of NSDAP.

Jose Silveira
Jose Silveira
May 19, 2020 11:55 PM
Reply to  Kalen

In the text you quoted, just replace “virus” with “people” to get the correct sense. Then all is clear.

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 8:11 PM

It has to be said – the police are cunts

Carnyx
Carnyx
May 19, 2020 8:47 PM
Reply to  bob

Corrupt c*nts

Hail
Hail
May 19, 2020 7:12 PM

Relevant question: Would the protest have gotten favorable coverage if absolutely zero people with camouflage or anything resembling a gun or any other weapon had been there?

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
May 19, 2020 7:28 PM
Reply to  Hail

No.

Hank
Hank
May 19, 2020 6:06 PM

Personally I would rather be around these protesters guns and all than at an extinction rebellion protest, climate change protest or in a room with Gates, Soros, , Gore, Xi Xi, KKK, Nazis, BLM, Killary, Obama, Fauci, Heil Merkel or any UN boss.

Don’t let the Media fool you into thinking they are nazis as it has been shown leftists infiltrate these events just for shaming the Trump supporters.

Media and Obama have divided America. Democrats are race baiters. They started in schools and teach it right through university.

Extremists on either side are not welcomed. A gun doesn’t make you an extremist.

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 19, 2020 7:10 PM
Reply to  Hank

And here we go. There are some comments below asking about the readership’s leanings and I’m glad you’re coming out into the open. There’s no difference between this site and Breitbart I’m sorry to say. For shame.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
May 19, 2020 7:30 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

Breitbart is Zionist controlled opposition.

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
May 20, 2020 2:23 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

I see a broad spectrum of opinions being represented here.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
May 20, 2020 9:50 AM
Reply to  Hank

You prefer mutual gun masturbation, do you? No surprise there.

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 5:54 PM

Jason Goodman interviews Alan Dershwitz regarding vaccines

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/power-to-plunge-a-needle-into-your-arm-dershowitz-says-forced-vaccinations-are-constitutional

the impression i get here is that Goodman does a good job but the ‘other’ Alan Dershowitz leaves a lot to be desired

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 6:00 PM
Reply to  bob
WorldParole
WorldParole
May 20, 2020 2:25 PM
Reply to  bob

This again?? Sorry Dershowitz, but passing executive orders without legislative body is NOT Constitutional.

jacklord
jacklord
May 19, 2020 5:23 PM

These guys taking guns to demonstrations are all for show. If an actual altercation with police/ military arose, they would piss themselves. Plus, they’re not helping the cause any. They give it a bad look. I wish they would realize that.

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 19, 2020 5:33 PM
Reply to  jacklord

They’re hijacking the opposition and making us out to be a laughing stock. Interestingly, some of these people are likely paid protesters, but you won’t hear the “right” calling out staged protests in this case.

Hank
Hank
May 19, 2020 5:38 PM
Reply to  jacklord

They don’t give it a bad look. At least they’re out there.

What gives it a bad look is that everyone is not out there.

You talk about them being scared, where were you?

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 19, 2020 6:42 PM
Reply to  Hank

Obese, out of shape neckbeards with mismatched desert fatigues, goofy jeans and hiking boots. The Nazi regalia and grammatically incorrect, low effort signage don’t help either. Trust me, these people aren’t seen as anything but clowns outside a very small segment of the population.

Maybe step out of your echo chamber once and a while and get a lay of the land. But that would require some mental clarity and yes, even courage.

Lucky
Lucky
May 19, 2020 9:32 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

When lacking an argument attack the messenger not the message, formally known as an ad hominem logical fallacy. Organic protests don’t come wrapped in professional PR rhetoric –did you mention something about an echo chamber?

WorldParole
WorldParole
May 20, 2020 2:32 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

Jimmi – everyone needs to be protesting now. Guns at this point are basically irrelevant. Brandishing a weapon is small potatoes to the complete usurpation of basic rights.

Dhisna
Dhisna
May 19, 2020 5:42 PM
Reply to  jacklord

I think, giving a bad look to the cause is an intention, may agent provocateurs at work trying to achieve such goals.

Dhisna
Dhisna
May 20, 2020 1:20 AM
Reply to  Dhisna

oops! many i meant ……..sorry

luke2236
luke2236
May 20, 2020 3:03 AM
Reply to  jacklord

you may hope so, but dont bet on it asswipe… there are many that are tired of it and ready to take the country away from (((tptb)))). suggest you hide in mommies basement and get out of the way.
[now kevin, go on your rant about mean ol nazis, rednecks, and how intelectual you are etc etc etc ad nauseam…

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
May 19, 2020 5:23 PM

UK: Jeremy Corbyn’s brother among 19 arrested at London anti-lockdown protest

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 5:28 PM
Reply to  Tim Drayton

It’s a shame that the far right are trying to hijack the protests, such as they are.

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 5:45 PM
Reply to  Julie

What exactly is the ‘far right’? How can wanting to stop this fascism be in any way ‘far right’?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
May 19, 2020 9:36 PM
Reply to  MoH

Thank you.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
May 19, 2020 6:12 PM
Reply to  Julie

And I call troll.

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 7:30 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

You should know better than most.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
May 19, 2020 6:03 PM
Reply to  Tim Drayton

Is it my imagination or are there more police than protesters? The police are definitely not operating anywhere near 2m apart!
Pity they weren’t deployed to North Yorkshire, to catch bikers blasting through small ribbon development villages at 60+mph!

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 4:49 PM

Damien Collins MP – (who voted for this creep?) – says it should be illegal for people to make what he calls ‘conspiracy theories’

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/make-it-illegal-to-persistently-spread-covid-19-conspiracy-theories/18/05/#.XsKpD4GQMX4.twitter

it’s hard trying to talk to somebody who is not rational, won’t engage with you and expects laws to be made to criminalise your point of view – how many here have had replies to letters from their MPs – our so called representatives in parliament – i’m sure mine has blocked me – so much for representation!

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 4:52 PM
Reply to  bob

here’s Collins’s twitter page

https://twitter.com/DamianCollins/status/1262421400545112064

there’s variety of words i could use to describe this ****

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
May 19, 2020 5:57 PM
Reply to  bob

Some cracking comments though!

JudyJ
JudyJ
May 19, 2020 5:11 PM
Reply to  bob

I would be intrigued to know what Mr Collins regards as the distinction between healthy debate and ‘conspiracy theory’. I think we all know the answer to that but someone needs to ask him.

In the article I see that Dr Allington of Kings College, London, suggests any clamping down should distinguish between professional conspiracy theorists -‘like David Icke and the LondonReal website’ – and people like celebrities and social media/BTL commenters who are simply “mistakenly” sharing conspiracy theories. In other words, Dr Allington presumes that only certain people (no doubt himself and Damien Collins included) have the intellect to recognise ‘the truth’ and when it is being egregiously compromised.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 4:35 AM
Reply to  JudyJ

And these eejits seem to have completely forgotten about the concept of free speech.

(Although they always seem to claim the right for themselves).

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 5:27 PM
Reply to  bob

You do not get flak until you are dropping bombs on target.

Ken Kenn
Ken Kenn
May 19, 2020 9:41 PM
Reply to  jay

The current Military thinking seems to be – kill from a distance.

That way none of ‘us’ get hurt.

The people who are for war ironically are usually those that dodged the Draft.

The protesters on the street are more than likely desperate (meaning their hero Donald has and is deserting them in their hour of need ) to go back to work because they need the money.

Ergo- if they ‘ need ‘ the money then the State they voted for and believed in is is letting them down badly.

Not so much The American Dream rather the American Nightmare.

The Democrats are not much better.

The question is – who do you trust now?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 4:33 AM
Reply to  bob

There is a conspiracy theory that claims that the UK House of Commons represents something known as Democracy.

I don’t believe in it myself, having never seen any evidence for it.

I don’t believe in those sort of Conspiracy Theories.

I do however, believe in factual descriptions of the many real conspiracies to which we have been and are subjected.

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 4:48 PM

Only 5% of teachers think it safe to reopen English schools, poll shows
Survey by NASUWT union shows more work needed to win trust and allay fears

This is how the Guardian does it. They dont reveal the questions that was asked to what those 5% were actually asked as I suspect that there were several questions and the spread of those agreeing to opening would be higher among the categories (such as a) opening tomorrow b) opening next week c) opening net month etc). But the Guardian on behalf of its masters will do anything to manipulate peoples minds to keep the lockdown going on indefinitely, especially by misrepresentation of polls. Of course many teachers would not want to impose such inhumane ‘social distancing’ on pupils so they too dont want to go back, though the Guardian again misrepresents by pretending its all about fear of the plague (I am not discounting that this fear is genuine and a big factor). They always somehow turn a negative into a positive and I so wish people were aware of its snide tactics and anti human agenda

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/19/only-5-of-teachers-think-it-safe-to-reopen-english-schools-poll-shows

kevin
kevin
May 19, 2020 5:32 PM
Reply to  MoH

This also applies to people seeking medical treatment at hospitals for strokes and heart attacks. Here in Canada the MSM tells us it’s because people are afraid of contracting the virus at the hospital. This may be true due to the MSM’s own fear mongering but I think for some people at least it has more to do with dying alone in a hospital without ever seeing your family again because of hospital policies. I actually find it pretty terrifying that this is not even allowed to be acknowledged.

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 5:49 PM
Reply to  kevin

Strange how the same thing is happening in the UK. Its almost as though there is some sort of globalist governance directing these things

To be fair many people are cottoning on to the euthanasia of the elderly, even those who believe in the bug. This number will grow, but its all a question of whether they will ever be held to account as other groups will be targeted for ‘depopulation’ next such as dissenters, the unemployed and those being kept alive by expensive medical treatment

Dhisna
Dhisna
May 19, 2020 5:51 PM
Reply to  MoH

Are the teachers getting paid to stay @ home? if so, then why bother going to work at all?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 4:37 AM
Reply to  MoH

The Guardian is the traditional journal of teachers and social workers, and so thinks it can answer the question for itself, without going to the trouble of actually posing the question to the people for whom it claims to speak.

No wonder Off-Guardian.org had to be created.

Dee
Dee
May 19, 2020 4:02 PM

Hey Admin2.
Must I write the one about 5G radiation myself? Where is the SUN? It feels colder than usual… How are 5G rollouts affecting the ozone? No to The New Normal. No to the Chinese Industrial Model. No to the Industrial Model point blank. Remember clay pots? No, you don’t but I do. Remember wicker and grass/papyrus baskets instead of plastic bags? No, you don’t but I do.

China = Plastic Dump.
US = Plastic Dump.
EU = Plastic Pumps.

Given me those African solutions! Wicker, clay, paper, cloth even steel and iron are biodegradable but these plastic phones?…

No to the 4th Industrial Revolution! Give me the real solution!

Howard
Howard
May 19, 2020 3:54 PM

The Second Amendment is strictly symbolic. A house full of AK-47s will protect no one from, let’s say, the kind of assault which devastated David Koresh’s Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. And make no mistake: that is the kind of force the gun toters are up against. Gun control will never happen in America, if for no other reason than the state’s wish to maintain the illusion among citizens that they actually have a way to fight back if the state chooses to come after them. So, at the end of the day, it isn’t anti-social to carry a weapon to a protest. It’s merely a reminder of what the people have long ago given up.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 4:01 PM
Reply to  Howard

One word. Vietcong.

Howard
Howard
May 20, 2020 3:21 PM
Reply to  jay

Along with that one word, one very clear message: it’s much easier to fight an invading army than one’s own army.

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 5:31 PM
Reply to  Howard

That comment will not go down well with the majority right-wing permanent residence here.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 9:43 PM
Reply to  Howard

I agree that “gun control will never happen in America”, but for a different reason than yours. The idea that authorities want to take America’s guns away is fake. America is a weapons-manufacturing, gun-loving country. Selling guns to Americans is a huge business. It will never be eradicated here.
The right wingers who fear everything anyway, are so easily riled up they will vote for any moron to office who says they’re for the second amendment. Of course these same right wingers will tell you that they need the guns to fight against a possible government that is too authoritarian, but they actually would never fight against an authoritarian government. They’re the ones who vote for fascism. They’re the ones who send their kids off to murder people in foreign lands for corporate and hegemonic goals. They’ll be the first ones to use their guns on their neighbors long before they would ever think of using their guns against the government.
(Of course, America is a violent country, and people should have the right to have a gun for protection, in my view.)

luke2236
luke2236
May 20, 2020 3:11 AM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

gee sharon…or is that karen – what planet have you been living on? TPTB have been trying to take our guns away for 150 years. Turn off npr and cnn and smell the pizza.
Actually, America isnt that violent of a place…once you eleiminate a half a dozen cities, all majority black and demomarxist run. In fact, just by eliminating the top 4 crime cities in America, The US drops to 4th from the bottom in murder worldwide. AMERICANS arent by nature a violent people, its the thirdworld masses having been forced upon us. Even the govt admits that 3% of the population – black males from 14 to 24 – commit ~55% of all murders. When the rest of that ‘demographic group’ is included, the number approaches 70…

The idiots in government are as clueless as you – they dont seem to think the people will ever stand either. But youre both wrong.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 20, 2020 4:02 AM
Reply to  luke2236

Gee luke…or is it duped? The government doesn’t want your guns, they want you to buy as many guns as you can get credit cards for. And don’t tell me about America not being violent. That’s utter bullshit. Rape, assault, serial killers…Mass murder had been an almost daily occurrence. If people want to have a gun to protect themselves, I don’t blame them.

Howard
Howard
May 20, 2020 3:33 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I’m not entirely sure about the gun fetish; but I am reasonably sure about the Confederate flag fetish – and it’s nothing like the media portrays. Yesterday evening I happened to hear a song from my high school days: “Rebel Rouser” by Duane Eddy. It brought back memories of being a teenager in a border state (i.e., the border between North and South – in this case Maryland).

That was slightly pre-60’s and being a rebel, then and there, meant finding the Confederate flag just about the coolest thing going. And even though I was more a book worm than a rebel, I too found that flag cool. It still has a certain aesthetic appeal; but otherwise I’ve long since outgrown it. But many others clearly have not.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 20, 2020 3:58 PM
Reply to  Howard

The confederate flag is criticized because of insensitivity to Americans who haven’t forgot their history. Maybe people think the design is cool, or maybe people think of State’s rights. But I personally think of torture, murder and enslavement. I wouldn’t outlaw the flag because of that, though, Howard. It’s good for me to have conflicts in my mind when I see it. Maybe others feel the same?

paul
paul
May 20, 2020 7:07 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

If people want to ban the Confederate flag because it is a symbol of torture, murder and enslavement, why haven’t they banned the US/ British/ Israeli/ French/ Belgian/ Italian/ Dutch/ Portuguese/ Spanish flags as well?

paul
paul
May 20, 2020 7:08 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Some people just cherish the courage and endurance of the men who carried it.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 20, 2020 9:15 PM
Reply to  paul

I’m sure Pol Pot’s men had courage and endurance too, but what they used it for was a horribly oppressive government.

kevin morris
kevin morris
May 19, 2020 3:49 PM

I have the greatest respect for Quakerism and the story of Ghandi’s fight for independence is truly a remarkable one.

However, I always remember the explanation given for Britain’s abandoning of its plan to assassinate Hitler being because the latter’s meddling in military affairs from 1943 onwards was thought actually to be lessening the effectiveness of Germany’s war machine.

I deplore violence wherever it happens, be it in occupied Palestine, in occupied Tibet in occupied Eastern Turkestan, or elsewhere in the world but in view of some of the very shocking news that has been reported through these pages recently, would it be ever morally justifiable to destroy one of the wealthiest men in the world because his aim is to destroy or at least to seriously imperil many of us.

Does the imperative to remove one of the most evil beings on this earth because of what he is about to do to us override every other moral imperative?

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
May 19, 2020 11:40 PM
Reply to  kevin morris

Neither Tibet nor Xinjiang (the use of the terrorist description ‘East Turkestan’ is despicable)is ‘occupied’.

kevin morris
kevin morris
May 20, 2020 1:00 PM

Hello fifty cents! Eastern Turkestan exactly describes the ethnic origin of the people who have lived there for centuries but whom the CCP is determined to destroy. Incidentally, Chinese archaeologists found a mummified human thereabouts. He was dressed in clothing that resembled nothing more than scots plaid, and the hair that still clung to his skull was ginger.

Needless to say, the Chinese are very embarrassed since the discovery rather flies in the face of the party’s usual claim that it has been Chinese ‘since ancient times’ as they also still lie about Tibet or ‘Western Treasure House’ in Chinese ‘Xizang’ as the CCP prefers to call it.

paul
paul
May 20, 2020 7:16 PM
Reply to  kevin morris

China is such a huge country they have had distinct minorities from time immemorial.
The people peddling fairy stories about Tibet and Xinjiang are the same people who were peddling the lies about Iraq Incubator Babies/ Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian WMD, the Viagra fuelled Libyan rape gangs, the Holohoax, Skripal, Russiagate, and a laundry list of similar garbage.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
May 22, 2020 7:44 AM
Reply to  paul

Exactly-the exact same racist, Western, bullying thugs who hate China’s rise with a frenzied intensity. Morris cares no more for the Uighurs or Tibetans than he does for any other ‘lesser breeds’.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 4:42 AM
Reply to  kevin morris

Have you ever read “Rogue Male” by Geoffrey Household?

A novel about an attempt by a lone unnamed Englishman on the life of an unnamed dictator. Clearly meant to be Hitler, but at the time it was published, it would not have been wise to make it too specific.

It was a pity that there had not been a real attempt at that time, and that the attempt had been specific. Mighyt have saved a deal of trouble.

In the story, he wasn’t doing it for patriotism, but for love.
But that’s novels for you.

kevin morris
kevin morris
May 20, 2020 1:23 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

No, Mike, I never came across that title. As for real attempts on Hitler’s life at the time, there were several and a very active anti Nazi movement both before and during World War 2.

There has long been a claim that in 1938, the Wermacht was anxious about war with Czechoslovakia, since contrary to the common British view of the time, the Czechs had a very good and well equipped army and a very well developed armaments industry. I was shocked for example to learn that many of the German tanks that faced the BEF in 1940 were actually Czech manufactured.

According to the story, in 1938 Admiral Canaris, head of the Abwehr, is said to have contacted the British secret service and told them that if Chamberlain was to stand in the way of Hitler’s designs on the Sudetanland and the subsequent Czech rump, the Wermacht would stage a coup and remove Hitler.

Sadly, it remains one of those might have beens.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 5:53 PM
Reply to  kevin morris

No, Mike, I never came across that title. As for real attempts on Hitler’s life at the time, there were

It’s a really good story, somewhat in the mould of John Buchan’s “39 Steps” but without the imperial jingoism; I recommend it.

I’ve seen a documentary, probably on BBC4, about one British attempt, probably by SOE. It was apparently planned in great detail, and seems to have had a reasonable chance of success, but was then pulled for the reason you mention above.

There has long been a claim that in 1938, the Wermacht was anxious about war with Czechoslovakia, since contrary to the common British view of the time, the Czechs had a very good and well equipped army and a very well developed armaments industry. I was shocked for example to learn that many of the German tanks that faced the BEF in 1940 were actually Czech manufactured.

I believe the Czech Republic still has a well-respected arms industry. Not arms, but my Leki Nordic Walking poles are made in the Czech Republic (although Leki is a German brand). They have done well to maintain their manufacturing industry.

According to the story, in 1938 Admiral Canaris, head of the Abwehr, is said to have contacted the British secret service and told them that if Chamberlain was to stand in the way of Hitler’s designs on the Sudetanland and the subsequent Czech rump, the Wermacht would stage a coup and remove Hitler.

Sadly, it remains one of those might have beens.

Indeed. I wonder if he got the message, or if he did, whether he believed it, or if he did, whether he thought the word of Canaris would be reliable?

I don’t know what they thought of Hitler’s views on Czechoslovakia, but my understanding is that the Wehrmacht were very gung-ho about the attack on Russia, even “Good Germans”, like Erwin Rommel.

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 3:38 PM

just WTF is Johnson doing?

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-19/boris-johnson-bill-gates-melinda-gates/

meanwhile the nation goes down the plughole

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 3:41 PM
Reply to  bob
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
May 19, 2020 5:51 PM
Reply to  bob

All that yellow and black tape! Making 5 year-olds wait to go to the toilet is bound to make them wet themselves – or worse. And then to have to clean themselves up with no help? This is proposed child abuse. I wouldn’t send my child back there to those conditions.

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 3:47 PM
Reply to  bob

Criminally conspiring with a eugenicist (genocidist)

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 4:03 PM
Reply to  bob

Boris actually is Melinda Gates…

Trent
Trent
May 19, 2020 5:07 PM
Reply to  bob

When the far-right (boris) is feeding you the conspiracy theories that they would like you to run with, then be suspicious. Boris and Gates both know that Gates is the perfect cover for that fact that this is a CIA operation. Gates I’m sure is happy to oblige. Just like Soros was happy to be the fall guy for the US blocking the UK’s entry into the euro.

kevin
kevin
May 19, 2020 6:40 PM
Reply to  Trent

The CIA is a tool of the “liberal” globalist establishment which includes Gates and Soros.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 3:26 PM

Questions are beginning to be asked at last. The tories, aka the lockdown killers.
They blame “lack of testing”, but we all know that the tests are useless…Sick Old people were being sent back to care Homes to die when they still needed hospital care.

Now the government blames SCIENTISTS for Coronavirus failures: Furious finger-pointing breaks out over testing fiasco and failure to protect care homes as Cabinet minister Therese Coffey says blunders were down to ‘wrong’ science advice

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 3:59 PM
Reply to  jay

Don’t blame the tories, Prof Shagga looked a sound bet with his wind-up, barrel organ prediction machine that ran on bananas, it even came with its own squirrel munkey…

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 4:48 AM
Reply to  jay

Yes …. both lots of tests are useless – so-called virus tests, and the antibody tests.

It’s all a complete, and very expensive farce.

And it has been and will be very destructive.

I wonder how much of this farce could have been avoided if they’d had a few more scientists (and engineers, who have to be robustly logical, and usually understand complex systems) and a few fewer classicists, lawyers and PPE wallahs in the government and civil service?

Lawyers may be able to fool judges and juries with clever word-play, but they can’t even solve a quadratic equation, let alone get a handle on the human immune system.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 1:52 PM

I’m very curious about how many OffGuardian readers/commenters consider themselves right wing or left wing? Can OffGuardian take a poll, please? Thank you:)

Loverat
Loverat
May 19, 2020 2:43 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Before doing that it might worth knowing what being left or right wing is these days.

For me, I don’t identify with any party. Just happen to admire a handful of politicians and commentators who speak and promote truth. Some of them might say they are broadly left or right, but this does not go into my decision as to whether they’re worthy of supporting. And the issues I support are a mixture of what you would previously call left or right wing.

So I for one would need help before voting in any poll.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 3:21 PM
Reply to  Loverat

That’s entirely understandable, Loverat. If you consider yourself neither left wing or right wing, it should be a choice in the poll:)

wardropper
wardropper
May 19, 2020 2:54 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I would, however, like to suggest that there be a third option: “Do you consider ‘left’ and ‘right’ to be obsolete terms when discussing the politics of the 21st Century?”
I have always considered myself to be “left-wing”, in that I ask questions which my “Conservative” friends and relatives would clearly rather I didn’t, but since Tony Blair made the Labour Party into the “Tory-2” Party, I have not been able to identify with that sort of “leftism” any more. Which leaves us with… well, what?
So, for me at any rate, it is now a question of being pro- Corrupt-Establishment, or against it, and CoVid has shown us very clearly where our enemy lives.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
May 19, 2020 3:22 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Third option for me – for the same reasons.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 3:24 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Yes, wardropper, if you don’t feel believe in the left/right anymore then you should be able to consider yourself as neither:)

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 3:39 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Left/Right? Isn’t there just one way that is correct?

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 5:20 PM
Reply to  jay

No they are political doctrines. They exist even when you don’t.

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 2:54 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

We might also like to ask what off-guardian considers itself to be, left or far-right wing?

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
May 19, 2020 3:23 PM
Reply to  Julie

I’m not sure it matters. What’s important is that the MSM propaganda is exposed and questioned and that we have access to the truth.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 3:28 PM
Reply to  Julie

I’m pretty curious about OffGuardian myself, Julie. I assume that they’re left wingers, but assuming what people believe has only been a 50/50 endeavor for me;)

Loverat
Loverat
May 19, 2020 4:12 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I have a feeling Ive read somewhere maybe on this site they are ‘left leaning’ ex Guardian readers. Left leaning is how I have regarded this site but certainly Ive never seen ideology influence the truthful coverage here. Maybe as others above have alluded being left or right has gone out of the window this last few years with the world in such peril and focus on international matters. I don’t think Ive ever disagreed with the Of G articles – perhaps only a brief time when I thought the BREXIT coverage was a bit over the top imo.

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 5:02 PM
Reply to  Loverat

Looking at that talking points they share most of them with the far-right. There is nothing left wing about them at all, I don’t know where you get that from. Maybe I missed the articles about union rights.

Loverat
Loverat
May 19, 2020 5:25 PM
Reply to  Julie

I don’t recognise that at all. As I say during my two years of reading, much has been about foreign affairs. Geo-politics and especially media in this context. Syria, Iran, China, OPCW. Assange, a bit of US politics and Brexit.
Really questioning those narratives.

Whats that saying – something like if we follow the logic in your post about sharing talking points , all vegetarians would be Nazis because Hitler was.

A ridiculous statement to make and one I don’t recognise. Perhaps you should back up your comment.

Richard Le Sarc
Richard Le Sarc
May 19, 2020 11:42 PM
Reply to  Julie

And, look, they don’t like being identified.

Julie
Julie
May 19, 2020 5:21 PM
Reply to  Loverat

They borrow all their talking points form the far right. Nothing left wing about any of it.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 5:58 PM
Reply to  Julie

What’s the right’s views on the invasion of the Middle East? Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.? OffGuardian has featured articles in protest of the invasion of the Middle East. That’s anti-imperialism. That’s left wing, not right wing, Julie;)

crank
crank
May 19, 2020 8:08 PM
Reply to  Julie

‘Julie’ why are you on here making these assertions?
Just do the most rudimentary research and you will see that OffGuardian has published hundreds of articles that it is fair to say are coming from a Leftwing position : anti-establishment, anti-imperialist, pro-democracy, anti-corporate, pro-Corbyn Left, Lexit …
Please retract your absurd statements and stop trolling or go away.
https://off-guardian.org/?s=corbyn&submit=Search

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 4:50 AM
Reply to  Loverat

Disillusioned left-leaners, is how I tend to think of it.

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
May 20, 2020 12:04 AM
Reply to  Julie

Perhaps left and right are pretty meaningless when both are in favour of a mass roll-out of authoritarianism?

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 20, 2020 4:53 AM
Reply to  Admin2

The “political compass” throws some light on the question:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

At least it adds another dimension. I’m sure there are other ways of looking at it as well.

Ash
Ash
May 20, 2020 9:50 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. Left/right has utility and a specific meaning as an ECONOMIC continuum, but when all politics are deliberately simplified to a single line, forgoing TPC’s authoritarian/libertarian axis or any other form of additional nuance and leaving people insisting this or that social issue is “left” or “right”, how do you not end up with today’s state of discord and confusion when you try to have a conversation about it?

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 20, 2020 4:52 PM
Reply to  Admin2

Or maybe we’re seeing a clearer version of leftism? One that is more up to date? Maybe the old left has missed an important part of modern leftism, one that has adopted conspiracy theory which the Internet has provided?
If Noam Chomsky was the old left, refusing to allow conspiracies such as the 9/11 event into his thinking, then the modern left would allow it and find it an important subject to study;)

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 19, 2020 2:56 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

You’ll get the inevitable “there’s no left or right wing these days” deflection, but if you read carefully, most veer decidedly right wing.

To say that there’s no left or right wing is a lazy cop-out. It’s true in a way because both sides serve neo-lib / neo-con Anglo-American hegemony, but the content here seems mostly critical about the usual suspects on the “left” part of the spectrum. That should tell you enough about the readership here.

You’ll never read an article about the thieving NRA and its political pawns or the morally bankrupt Steve Bannon. Or even Trump who quips about having “total authority” whilst his rabid “Constitutionalist” sycophants cheer him on. The hypocrisy and mental gymnastics are all rather dull. I’m quite disappointed that this is yet another echo chamber of misinformation and ignorance. Not unlike the comment section of The Guardian in many ways.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 3:38 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

While I agree that some people say that the left/right dichotomy is non-existent are maybe doing a “cop-out”, there are those who have thought deeply about it and have come to that conclusion. Like the political anarchist, for example. And of course Trump has really caused many problems for people trying to remain consistent in their thinking.
But I do not agree with you that OffGuardian is an “echo chamber of misinformation and ignorance”. I wouldn’t be here if I thought that. Why are you here if you feel that way, jimmi?

wardropper
wardropper
May 19, 2020 3:59 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I agree, Sharon, although I think there are a great many people who are not doing a cop-out at all, but who simply see clearly that their informed opinion no longer fits into “left/right” categories.
I also protest, as you do, against the idea that OffG is “an echo chamber of misinformation and ignorance”… After all, what is an echo chamber but a reflection of what goes on inside? Some of it might be misinformation, and some of it might be ignorance, but nobody who has seriously followed most of the discussions here for any length of time could doubt that there is a great deal of genuine information to be found in them, none of which rules out the right of people like Jimmi to express alternative opinions.

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 19, 2020 4:35 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Explain to me then why there are no articles criticizing the “right”. This is a very simple question that doesn’t require much thought aside from looking beyond your own biases.

I don’t deny that there are some truths conveyed here. But the same can be said for all the other media outlets.

Maybe I just haven’t been around long enough to see a wider sampling, but several months in and there hasn’t been much difference in tone and content with what you might read on Breitbart.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
May 19, 2020 4:37 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

Plenty on the Guardian for that.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 4:52 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

There are articles criticizing the right, here at OffGuardian, jimmi. They have a tone of articles criticizing imperialists and their wars, for example. Are you going to find that at the New York Times or Breitbart? For those publications it depends on who, or which party, is conducting the war. They’re both imperialist publications.

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 19, 2020 5:13 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Really now. I’d like to see these articles. Where might they be? Please provide links and I’ll gladly be proven wrong. I do mean it as I was hoping OffG to be an impartial source for facts, not spin.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 5:33 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

Just type into your search engine: OffGuardian Syria, or OffGuardian Libya, etc.

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 19, 2020 6:46 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Yeah, more right wing talking points. I also searched Trump.

I don’t have a problem with right wing propaganda. I have a problem with people who gaslight and say they’re impartial when they’re clearly not. People and organizations should own up to their beliefs. But that’s just my view. Facts and truth are impartial. They have no allegiance to ideology or political identity. Yes, I’m very disappointed, but I shouldn’t be.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 9:22 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

Jimmi, here is the very first thing pinned on OffGuardian’s Twitter account:

“They lied about #Iran
They lied about #Vietnam
They lied about #Chile
They lied about #Iraq
They lied about #Afghanistan
They lied about #Iraq. Again.
They lied about #Libya.
They lied about #Syria.
But yeah, sure, THIS TIME it’s for a good cause. #Venezuela”

Now how is that right wing propaganda? You’re not making a good account of yourself;)

Jimmi
Jimmi
May 20, 2020 3:25 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Only these aren’t right wing talking points. No, have you considered that you’re the one who’s misled, willfully ignorant or otherwise intellectually dishonest?

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 20, 2020 4:32 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

You see all those countries invaded? They were invaded by right wingers. Imperialism is a right wing ideology.

luke2236
luke2236
May 20, 2020 3:14 AM
Reply to  Jimmi

First, theres nothing TO criticise on the true Right.
secondly, every article criticises the ‘right’.
Go back to your mommies basement.

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 3:40 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

‘Not unlike the comment section of The Guardian in many ways.’

With the fundamental difference that Off Guardian doesnt delete comments or posters that go against the narrative.

wardropper
wardropper
May 19, 2020 4:01 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

Personally, I take exception to your insistence that “left-wing” means what I would call “right-wing”, (JackJim sometimes does the same here), which could easily be interpreted as a deliberate attempt to confuse the issues. I am in the fortunate position of having realized that ever since I ditched both of those terms some time ago, I have felt it much easier to be focused on those issues, yet of course I wouldn’t dream of denying your right to continue as you see fit.

wardropper
wardropper
May 19, 2020 4:07 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Oh, and the “inevitable”, “there’s no left or right wing these days” “deflection”, is far from inevitable, and it is only very rarely that I see that view expressed. I would like to see it much more frequently. And, no, it is NOT a deflection, but a reasoned response to the knee-jerk reaction of so many people to label something they disagree with as “far-left”, or “far-right”, when they actually have no idea what they actually mean by those terms.

Reg
Reg
May 19, 2020 4:50 PM
Reply to  Jimmi

What do you mean “misinformation”?

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
May 19, 2020 3:20 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Gonna be one of those sods who answers a question with a question. What do you mean by right wing or left wing? Do you mean left wing now, by the standards of Antifa and SJWs, of the neoliberal Democratic party that appears to have jettisoned civil liberties, or the right wing that has embraced them in place of rigid standards that put loyalty to the state above all?

That’s not even touching upon the sliding scale of totalitarianism where national socialists play footsie with Marxists and libertarians sip craft beer with anarchists. https://researchguides.ccc.edu/c.php?g=990058&p=7162073

Plus it would make sense to ‘weight’ the answers according to degree of activism. Talk is cheap, after all. Activism nails a person down to the degree that another person can say, I consider your organization to be X on the spectrum. Only former activists have the freedom to define themselves. Then, they’ll be accused, most commonly, of growing more or less conservative with age: in other words, “your just an old fogey/hippy”.

If activism anchors one’s politics, what are we to make of the Covid totalitarians who parade their subservience, or the Covid constitutionalists who brandish their guns, or the Covid civil rightists who gather in parks. Where may I place them on a left-right spectrum? Is someone who says everybody’s rights should be taken away for the common good, and all should shut up and lump it, is that person purely concerned about health, even if that’s what she honestly believes? Must I ignore what that says about that person’s attitude to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Is it a matter of health alone if someone supports digital tattoos, biometric IDs, vaccines with chips – and the INTENDED and DECLARED purpose of chipping people * – because we are currently told that is necessary to fight Covid, even though the people behind those proposals (GAVI, ID2020, USAID, U.S. Treasury) have openly admitted the TRUE PURPOSE of those “treatments”. Is that chippist a healthist or a bankist or an imperialist and where do they stand on the left-right spectrum?

* https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/business/is-bill-gates-treating-india-like-a-guinea-pig-norbert-haring-war-on-cash-us-security-agencies-commercial-interests

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 3:52 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

I’ll just go bare-bones here, Moneycircus, and say that the Left is anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist. Whereas the right wing are the imperialists, colonialists, capitalists, monarchy, plutocracy, autocracy, etc. The world has been run by right wingers for quite some time. And there are no left wingers in the U.S. regime. You can’t be for some type of socialism while supporting an imperialist regime, and be a leftist. In my view:)

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
May 19, 2020 6:24 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Nice riposte, Sharon. I think the fascists have run the world since before WW2 but I would still say a left-right analysis doesn’t cut it,
You see I can make a conclusive argument that the EU is a fascist, U.S.-Nazi project and the facts prove that beyond contention. The conceived the idea and they financed it and they financed the main politicians promoting the EU. But this established history strong>IS resisted… by the left!! The very people who should be competent to see it.
And how do people decide if they are left-right? By their loyalty to the EU which they regard as a ‘communitarian’ project, totally missing its corporatist function and control. How to square that?
You can’t go bare bones, I’m afraid.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 9:58 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Oh, Moneycircus, you picked an example that I just can’t speak on:( I’m just too ignorant about the EU. Sorry. I’ll give you an upvote anyway:D

Mr X
Mr X
May 19, 2020 3:29 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I’m a socialist who consider capitalism an illness, whether that is left or right I don’t care.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 3:37 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

“The left/right paradigm” is just for the sheeple…

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 3:57 PM
Reply to  jay

I’m pretty sure that sheep are getting sick of being called people, jay;)

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 5:07 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Sheep are apparantly not as “sheep-like” as you have been led to believe.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 5:47 PM
Reply to  jay

No no no, sheep are not as people-like as you have been led to believe;)

Ted
Ted
May 19, 2020 3:56 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Hi Sharon, I feel like this distinction is a pre-packaged one that effectively carves out the contours of what the elites prefer people to talk about, while preventing us from seeing that most of us actually have quite a bit in common as we are all exploited and oppressed by the state and corporate capital similarly.

This article is a great example. It works mainly on two dimensions that one can easily detect in all media and political stage management these days. The “left” vs. “right”, with the author here seeming to wrap herself in a caricature of a female persona of anti-war protests, east coast liberals, NPR, and non-violent religious sects. On the right we have a caricature of a male persona toting assault rifles, the 2nd amendment, hunting camouflage, nazi or confederate emblems, and rural lifestyles. There is a nod here that the author might be able to empathize with the gun-toting other, but she is unsure. These are not the author’s own inventions of these caricatures, as they are easily recognizable as images widely circulated by the corporate press and in political rhetorics in the US. That she traffics in them is a testament to the power of mass media to create individual imaginations of personal identity.

The second dimension is one the accompanies the first. It is a racial dimensions of “white” vs “black and brown.” It follows the usual racist trope, active now for over two centuries, that imagines that white people have the luxury of being political agents (since apparently they do not do service work), and that “black and brown” people cannot be political agents because they do do so. Notice too, the assumption that these two groups of people are assumed to be equally represented in populations, such that in a truly just society about 50% of any public gathering would be made up of “black and brown” people.

I cannot say what people who have come to this site think about these dimensions, but I myself reject both as accurately characterizing the human condition in which we are all enmeshed. I find myself instead interested in conversations that challenge these prepackaged tropes and those who enact and embody them and look instead for ways of better understanding our shared humanity and shared oppression and exploitation.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 4:30 PM
Reply to  Ted

Wow, that was an excellent critique of this article, Ted. I didn’t like the article either, but your critical articulation cleared up my thoughts about it. Thanks:) All I felt reading it was that it floated by me very slowly–no conviction. It needed a dose of rage. NPR does that–low-volume imperialists. Pleasant war-mongering. Christine Black is the type of anti-war protester NPR would love to interview, you know, to show how open they are to other points of view;D

Howard
Howard
May 19, 2020 4:05 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

One might say it isn’t left or right any longer but for or against life. I certainly considered myself far far left; but I find no rational discourse on the “pandemic” anywhere on the left. And those who support the lockdown and also support the continued assault on the biosphere as well as on fellow humans cannot remotely be considered to be for life – and it does seem that most who support the lockdown also support the declaration of war against the planet. So they cannot be for life.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 4:35 PM
Reply to  Howard

Yes, we’re the Left’s problem child now, Howard. Once China and Russia said the virus is uber-dangerous then our Left refused to dive into the waters of conspiracy;)

Dee
Dee
May 19, 2020 4:11 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

Admin2 says that to go and fuck yourselves ”if you like your narratives simple and along party lines”…

Now what did Bob Dylan say? – ”Don’t follow leaders, watch the parking meters!” #SubterraneanHomesickBlues courtesy of Eritrea!♥️

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 4:55 PM
Reply to  Dee

Are you Admin2, Dee?

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
May 19, 2020 4:28 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I’m not a bird.
I don’t have wings.

Hank
Hank
May 19, 2020 5:46 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I’ll make it easy. Are you a snowflake, no, then you’re right.

MSM doesn’t define it and neither does politics. It’s a way of life.

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 6:05 PM
Reply to  Hank

Hank, I don’t understand what you just said. So you didn’t “make it easy” 😀

Hank
Hank
May 20, 2020 4:32 PM
Reply to  sharon marlowe

I gave it a good crack Shaz.

Most people know where they stand. The rest will figure it out.

George Mc
George Mc
May 19, 2020 1:47 PM

https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202005161079323828-patels-social-distancing-is-here-to-stay-warning-presents-inhumane-nightmare-vision-of-future/

“I think we all recognise now social distancing is here to stay,” – Priti Patel

We all recognise NOW? Wasn’t this the mantra even from the start? All of it curiously prophesised by impeccably logical “Scientific” prognosis.

But this is why you cannot possibly protest against the pandemic vision. It is “Scientific”. It is “Logical”. It is “Oppositional”. It is “Proletarian”. It is embedded in the “Grass Roots”. It is “Anti-Capitalist”. Therefore, to contest it is to be Right Wing, illogical, a patsy for big business etc.

John Pretty
John Pretty
May 19, 2020 1:56 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Well I don’t recognise it, George. And I will never recognise it.

Two wings are required for flight – so the birds tell me.

I shall be free.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 19, 2020 2:12 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Fortunately, Priti Patel isn’t here to stay (in government, that is).

sharon marlowe
sharon marlowe
May 19, 2020 2:19 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Do they want violence in the streets? Are they daring the public? This world-wide destabilization is quite a hubristic challenge.

Howard
Howard
May 19, 2020 3:33 PM
Reply to  George Mc

These are the times that try men’s…focus. Being a dyed-in-the-wool Luddite, when I hear that something is “Scientific,” I automatically question it. Name, if you can, one single modern death dealing device that was not the product of “Science.” Science is not even the double edged sword it’s said to be. Take away its entertainment value, and you have very little to show for it – certainly not enough to even begin to counter its malevolence. I love hearing Anton Petrov greet his viewers with “Hello Wonderful Person.” And that’s about it for Science.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
May 19, 2020 4:14 PM
Reply to  Howard

Howard, the Luddites weren’t opposed to science or technology. They were opposed to technology being exploited to destroy their livelihoods and families, culture and communities.

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
May 19, 2020 7:02 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Quotes from Bonny Henry, provincial health officer in British Columbia responsible for the COVID-19 response.

Re having a couple friends over to her front yard for Victoria Day: “It was a bit awkward and strange and a little bit of anxiety not having socialized for several months.”
Re Phase Two, a partial opening-up (while watching for a Second Wave): “We are still learning the new ways of social interactions and doing things we’ve never had to do before and that in itself can create anxiety and concern. … It’s not going to be back to normal, it’s going to be back to something that’s really unusual and different for us.” [i.e., the new normal]

Is she at all aware that she is in her tiny way part of the attempt to change the way we interact as social animals, i.e., what defines us as human?

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 1:19 PM

GNUs Flash…

The Case Continues…Did Gates “Steal” the Patent idea for Mark of the Beast from the Bible?

His Lawyers claims that Gates is the inventor based on the notion that ‘Bill is The AntiChrist’ have been rejected. The judge was quoted: ” you might be an evil little basterd, perpretating misdeeds around the world for money, but no. You even forced windows 10 on me, but I am convinced, you are not “THE” Antichrist. The Antichrist reputedly is a man of no small charm and magnetism, so it is not you…

There were loud Cheers from the AntiChrist’s bench: His legal representative, Satan thanked the judge, saying, my client cannot appear today but is here in spirit. We the Dragon thank the Judge for His wisdom.

Satan, then walked over to a dejected Gates, hugged him and said, “don’t worry, we will always be pals”.

Liam
Liam
May 19, 2020 1:44 PM
Reply to  jay

The gates story is the only thing stopping the victims of empire marching on every us embassy around the world, it’s working well. ‎

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
May 19, 2020 4:36 PM
Reply to  Liam

How is it working specifically??

Liam
Liam
May 19, 2020 5:11 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

I don’t see any protests outside your embassies.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
May 19, 2020 7:48 PM
Reply to  Liam

Well we had two well known outspoken ex journalist’s bring the government to court over the illegal moves towards Irish constitution.
Is a protest going to do more than that?

George Mc
George Mc
May 19, 2020 1:18 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/18/lockdown-protests-spread-coronavirus-cellphone-data

Note the video attached: “Who is driving the US protests against coronavirus lockdown? – video explainer” (How nice to have a “video explainer”!)

Predictably, we hear that these protests are driven by right wing groups (the expression “right wing” appears four or five times). It is also being driven “from the top”. Lots of mention of Trump. Meanwhile “most Americans” support the lockdown and these protestors AGAINST the protesters have “huge support on social media”. Interesting. The forces behind the protest are highlighted as high level but the forces FOR the lockdown are just assumed to be from the grassroots. Naturally the MSM is part of that grassroots – or more precisely, this odd situation of mass media support FOR the lockdown is not mentioned at all. Just quietly and relentlessly reinforced.

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 1:36 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Meanwhile “most Americans” support the lockdown and these protestors AGAINST the protesters have “huge support on social media”. Interesting.

Constructing the illusion of consent is one of their greatest tricks. They lie about the amount of people against the lockdown to exploit innate herd behaviour psychology to get people in line. I notice there is growing dissent in the Guardian comments so this trick is becoming less effective

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
May 19, 2020 7:13 PM
Reply to  MoH

The US public is constantly fed the notion that disagreement about lockdown/social distancing/masking is pro-Trump and therefore unthinkable (likewise his support for use of hydrochloroquine). They never are “permitted” to see videos of rallies and protests in other countries against lockdown by “normal” people like themselves (though they could, of course, if they searched as we here do).

But I have great sympathy for my usually thoughtful friends and relatives who are being sold and have bought this bill of goods. My only way to fight it has been to send links to those rallies (in Germany, Slovenia, etc., etc.) without comment.

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
May 19, 2020 7:34 PM
Reply to  MoH

I feel like I’m watching a second remake of “The Invasion of the Body Snatchers” – making the snatchees more obvious with the use of masks.

bob
bob
May 19, 2020 4:41 PM
Reply to  George Mc

anecdotally, there seems to be growing evidence that those who are ‘furloughed’ see their position as revolutionary – they are not questioning the narrative rather taking advantage of what they think is their right – ie getting paid whilst in limbo – this is not revolutionary of course, it is merely exemplifying their selfishness … yet another barrier to being free rather than being ‘safe’ – i can’t see a way out of this for free people – the loons are truly running the asylum

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
May 19, 2020 12:55 PM

The continued militarization of police forces is sending a clear message. Federal Government Buys Riot Gear, Increases Security Funding, Citing Coronavirus Pandemic https://theintercept.com/2020/05/17/veterans-affairs-coronavirus-security-police/

Treating dog walkers, ramblers or joggers as saboteurs/dissidents is an indication the constabulary has become a political police force. Regardless of whether you believe the Covid narrative or think venturing outdoors is reckless, the police are not treating this as health and safety or a matter of legitimate protest.

Civil disobedience implies the civilian has rights. The way the police are going after people who mutiny against the lockdown suggests they see the public as insurgents/subversives to be suppressed. They may not be using the military gear for now but, as The Intercept article shows, they are militarized and the only logical interpretation is that we are the enemy.

THE NEW NORMAL = NORMALIZATION

Often quoted but no apology. Yuri Bezmenov’s analysis in 1984 was spot on:
“The next stage, crisis, takes as little as six weeks, and with a violent change of the power structure and the economy you have the period of normalization, which can last indefinitely. This will happen if you let them bring the country to crisis, they will destabilize the economy, eliminate free market competition and install a big brother government… Your country is in an undeclared state of war against the principles on which it was founded.”

https://youtu.be/rlbWqwKFFqY?t=383

TrueNorth
TrueNorth
May 19, 2020 3:33 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

At the end of the article Fang adds body bags just in case anyone would have any doubts arising while reading the rest of it.

Carnyx
Carnyx
May 19, 2020 11:58 AM

Wouldn’t give up hope just yet… Things are beginning to change. The longer they enforce this phone-baloney lock-down the more people are starting to question their motives and methods.

Folks are calling out the likes of Bill Gates and Fauci and each day more are starting to sit up and pay attention.

They’ve over-egged the custard… The smart money is on red pills not vaccines!

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 12:54 PM
Reply to  Carnyx

Sure, the shadows will burn their puppets to further destroy belief in the edifaces in society further to the NWO…
This is how they work…
Order out of Chaos…

Joerg
Joerg
May 19, 2020 11:14 AM

Unlike nearly all of us, Julian Assange, who has a lung problem (at 21:40 in the video cited below) is in grave danger to die of pneumonia – never mind if caused by SarsCov-2, by Influenza-A, Influenza-B, by Retroviruses and so on.

MSM and our politicians never mention this!
And this although even those fabricated reasons for Julian Assange’s extradition and thus his imprisonment have – at least by now! – dissolved into thin air.

See: “DNC HACK HOAX EXPOSED, TIME TO FREE ASSANGE” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW5n19krCfE&spfreload=10

Some time ago even the ex-director of the NSA, Bill Binney, gave – by the known technical details if this supposed “hack” – conclusive proof that there never was a “hack”, but only a thumb drive smuggled out of the DNC headquarter.
See: “AMERICA RESTORED_ FORMER NSA TECHNICAL DIRECTOR BILL BINNEY SPEAKS TO TOMI COLLINS” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3mS-3-W0ig

At least now those who are responsible for Julian Assange’s still being imprisonment should have to face criminal charges – especially this disgusting judge Vanessa Baraitser!

BigB
BigB
May 19, 2020 10:54 AM

People believe all sorts of things. People believe thermodynamics do not exist. People believe we can have infinite growth on a small planet. People believe the world is exterior to them. People believe only civilisation exists. People believe all sorts of flat earth impossible things. And some of them believe in impossible things: and back up their rights with guns. Are we to accommodate all these beliefs as universally equal and valid? The bigger the gun: the better the beliefs?

If I see a guy or gal with a confederate flag: I can be pretty sure they know exactly what that means to them. That is what cultural iconography is for: to display your worldview. Do they have a right to that view? If so: do they have a right to defend that view with a gun?

Christine seems to have taken her Christianity to the point of total confusion. Which is commendable: but liberal as sugar water. Gun lore is not liberalism: it’s tyranny …and we’ve been there before (for most of history).

So them with the hypersonic multiple warhead planet destroying hyper-neutrino plasma bombs are correct in their worldview?

The problem is that we can now believe anything and defend it: to the death if need be. In contradistinction to the brute facts of reality. If we have competing worldviews with guns – and aren’t there nearly as many handguns in America as people …and that is before you include the hunting rifles and assault weapons? Or mystical truth bestowing plasma bombs. It is an ”armed madhouse” to quote Ginsberg. The way forward cannot be the worldview that is supported by the biggest collection of assault weapons …that is fascism countering fascism. The tyranny of the most perfected arsenal: which is the story of history.

Currently: I’m not that convinced there is a way forward. Civil war is a real possibility. And state monopoly violence is hardly to be commended. That is another impossible worldview defended by violence. There are ecological facts: and we have come to replace them with flat earth economic and sociological impossibilities. Truth – defended by real and symbolic violence – is totalitarianism.

There is a pragmatically correct and responsible set of choices we can make: in response to to the brute facts of the impossible belief systems being tested in real time. Tested by the epistemology of Nature. In tolerant ignorance of this: that set of choices is narrowing day by day. It will no doubt be ignored: but the feedback as we approach the ”edge of chaos” is clear. All these people are basically defending the right to be rational; the right to be objective; and the right to claim the state of independence of scientific realism. So when are they going to apply their own rights to themselves?

They won’t in all likelihood. They will defend their confederate lunacy to the end. There is a rational and responsible response: but it will not come from the barrel of a Colt AR-15 semiautomatic. Which I don’t think anyone should be afraid to say.

The natural and organic facts will stand: industrial capitalism has reached the end of its road. We accept this: or we kill each other …while they sell us the bullets at a price-gouged premium. It would be so much easier just to get on. By aligning the weaponised metaphysical Truth with the brute facts of the natural reality we have been fighting in clans to avoid accepting for most of history. Particularly modern history.

If we claim the ‘Truth’ is rational and objective – but then have to resort to at least symbolic violence to defend it – the truth-claim is invalidated. We have to reclaim rationality and objectivity and validity from their distorted industrialised violent forms …for the embodied rational ones. That is, after all, how we claim we deal with reality. Most opinionated truth-claims – even many of the scientific ones – are just wrong. They do not become right by liberal tolerance of a democratic all-opinion validity: by the merest claim that they are an valid opinion held dear by someone. Cherished by someone with a gun.

If they contradict the laws of thermodynamics, for instance, and most opinions do, then they are wrong. There are ecological facts: it is about time we dealt with them. Without forming what Becker might call death denying ersatz immortality cults built around impossible truths – defended by ever more efficient killing machines. I believe that is exactly how we got here.

The facts, not the guns, have it. It is not wrong to be intolerant of violently cherished falsity and impossibilities. You cannot force someone to believe: they have to do so of their own autonomy. Whether they do or not will soon be apparent. But it won’t be the intolerance of impossible beliefs and fantasy realities that caused it. It will be the assault weaponised liberal tolerance of afactual anti-natural unrealities …most of which are completely stupid and wrong. But everyone has a liberal tolerant free speech right to ultra-stupidity these days …what was it Popper said?

Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance.

We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.

With the main proviso that we deal with the natural facts – especially thermodynamics – and denounce as intolerant the violent denial of depletion – we’d all be in a better place. If no one wants to deal with the necessary logic of ecological naturalisation – and continue to weaponise intolerant impossible things …let the violence begin. And the one left standing with the biggest AR-17 automatic machine-like phallus must be right?

Or are they all just stone age knuckle-dragging morons …how illiberal of me to say. If the resistance to one truth imposed by violence is another truth imposed by violence – the NRA motto of a ”Good man with a gun” we are in a Westworld futurama. That is totally fucked up covidiocracy: if it is not too intolerant to say?

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 11:29 AM
Reply to  BigB

“People believe thermodynamics do not exist”.
You mean people who believe that a state of disorder can become a state of order?
Like after the ‘big bang’?

Mr X
Mr X
May 19, 2020 1:17 PM
Reply to  jay

States of order can only maintain their order as long as there is enough energy.

Mr X
Mr X
May 19, 2020 1:22 PM
Reply to  Mr X

In modern times this energy has come from fossil fuels but the earth is finite and so is cheap coal, gas and oil. So far there are no energy sources big and cheap enough to replace the fossil gold so prepare for a lot less order.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 1:22 PM
Reply to  Mr X

So, if we had a big enough explosion, in a big enough junk yard, we could create a Jumbo Jet…

breweriana
breweriana
May 19, 2020 6:36 PM
Reply to  jay

Yes, and then throw some “primordial ooze” into the ‘plane, and in a few million years, passengers will appear!

breweriana
breweriana
May 19, 2020 6:34 PM
Reply to  jay

“people who believe that a state of disorder can become a state of order”
No real scientist believes that nonsense.
There must have been some “harmonising force” acting, that we still do not understand.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
May 19, 2020 1:38 PM
Reply to  BigB

Tested by the epistemology of Nature.

This sentence is not even wrong. Epistemology is the study of the bases of knowledge. Nature does not engage in study.

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
May 19, 2020 1:38 PM
Reply to  BigB

Only thing I heard about thermodynamics was Richard Feynman used to study in a strip bar.
What’s it all about?

Almondson
Almondson
May 19, 2020 10:32 AM

The militias in the US are quaint but sadly lacking in brains. They would never stand a chance against the military and its tech. The only hope for the USA and the the planet in general is for the police and military to massively abandon their jobs after realizing who/what they were working for. This is slightly more likely than flying elephants.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 10:48 AM
Reply to  Almondson

I wouldn’t be so sure…
A few rice powered, shoeless Asians with AK47s kept the mighty US army tied up for 20 years and then sent them home to think again.

MoH
MoH
May 19, 2020 12:44 PM
Reply to  Almondson

It happened in Romania in 1989. It must happen again

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
May 19, 2020 10:30 AM

Just watched a video clip of a man in Ireland, with his young daughter present, arrested for fishing in a river. For fishing. I’ve seen several videos of people in Australia standing on a street being jumped on and arrested.
A young mother with her child jumped on by several cops at a New York train station in what was pure thuggery.
School children returning to school are to be kept apart and dehumanised and programmed into the ‘new normal’.
Medical experts and Doctors repeatedly having videos removed from YouTube.
Censorship is off the charts. A lot of people reporting that Facebook are now blocking people from sharing articles with friends. A few hours ago, I found 47 ‘fact checkers’ on my phone after articles I tried to share were blocked.
To all those who really really think there is a pandemic – explain the above.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 10:45 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

On my riverside walk, Covid cyclist cops were observed to fine or warn two folk fishing on the opposite bank. The route to get to them would have taken then at least 2 miles across rough terrain…
Now, you phone in that your house has been burglarised and they won’t even come out.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
May 19, 2020 10:57 AM
Reply to  jay

Interesting that lockdown is policed differently to crime and certainly not how the police respond to a health and safety incident. Police are treating lockdown more like civil disobedience, ie fishermen and dog walkers become dissidents and “to serve and protect” becomes Loyalty to the party – Loyalty to motherland; Верность партии — Верность Родине

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
May 19, 2020 11:25 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

In the US, while the police are busy in some jurisdictions arresting corona-demonstrators, many of their governors and mayors are busy emptying the prisons and jails of real criminals!

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 11:31 AM
Reply to  Seamus Padraig

They release prisoners to cause trouble, this has been done many times before.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
May 19, 2020 11:56 AM
Reply to  jay

Hi Jay… yeah, I saw your original comment on what you witnessed.
I’m actually quite stunned how fast things have moved in the last 2 months, and the thug tactics of the cops (and no, I’m under no illusions who they are)
Hope the weather is not too grey where you are…

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 12:24 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Hello, yeah it is grey…
I was talking to a bloke who said that his niece is a cop, apparantly She has been sent to work in Stirlingshire from Glasgow.
These are the actions of a police state, there can be no pretence now.

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
May 19, 2020 3:15 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Hello Gezzah, I just came across this author for the first time today on Global Research and thought you might also enjoy her work.

http://helenofdestroy.com/index.php/165-duck-and-cover-and-burn-the-heretics-the-modern-day-cult-of-corona#disqus_thread

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
May 19, 2020 9:17 PM
Reply to  Gary Weglarz

This looks excellent Gary, thank you.
I managed (after blocking the fact checkers on my phone) to share an article from Global Research about the real agenda of the lockdowns (by Peter Koenkg) and an article from Cory Morningstar on 5G and the chilling implications of the Internet of Things.
Way more people need to wake up to what is happening.

Brian Sides
Brian Sides
May 19, 2020 9:23 AM

Off Topic But Important
The Newspapers finally catch up with a story I have known about due to alternative news sites for the last two months .
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/05/16/coding-led-lockdown-totally-unreliable-buggy-mess-say-experts/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/05/16/neil-fergusons-imperial-model-could-devastating-software-mistake/?li_s
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8327641/Coronavirus-modelling-Professor-Neil-Ferguson-branded-mess-experts.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11642959/neil-ferguson-stay-at-home-lockdown-advice-unreliable-code/#comments

But I have not seen it on the TV news. Not on BBC , SKY, ITV, CH4
This may be news yesterday but forgotten tomorrow.

Just to be clear The Lock Down is due to the government acting on the predictions that came from this faulty pandemic model computer code.

If you read Report 9
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

This is the report that was used to get the UK into Lock Down based on the results of the faulty pandemic modelling.
The report states that the available data from China is used. But the data is not sourced or questioned . The report is full of assumptions. Why these assumptions are made or used is mostly not explained.
“Infection was assumed to be seeded in each country at an exponentially growing rate (with a doubling time of 5 days) from early January 2020″

At that rate the entire world would be infected in six months.

” in an unmitigated epidemic, we would predict approximately 510,000 deaths in GB and 2.2 million in the US”

This is the key statement to the prediction in the report “an unmitigated epidemic”

Why unmitigated?
This is the worst possible case scenario. The perfect storm.
But this is not reality. There are many mitigating factors in the real world.
Why would these real world mitigating factors not be included.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 9:49 AM
Reply to  Brian Sides

I haven’t seen the source code, apparantly it is in C++, but from the descriptions that I have heard from former senior programmers, even a schoolboy would have recognised bad practice for a supposidely professionally written program.
The spin is, that ‘Ferguson’s advice was only one of several’. Ferguson did sit on SAGE, but then so did several other scientists. The main problem with that excuse is not only the gross and obvious incompentinace of the error but also the political prominance and high profile given to “Prof Lockdown”.

George Mc
George Mc
May 19, 2020 9:54 AM
Reply to  Brian Sides

Why would these real world mitigating factors not be included.

Because computer models don’t deal with real world mitigating factors or indeed the real world.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
May 19, 2020 11:27 AM
Reply to  Brian Sides

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Neil Ferguson himself admit that his simulation was wrong several weeks ago already?

Henriette
Henriette
May 19, 2020 11:27 AM
Reply to  Brian Sides

Actually the lock&down is due to the governments carrying out a coup . The Ferguson story is a so called distraction.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 11:32 AM
Reply to  Henriette

Agreed, Ferguson was a shill and this is the proof.

Mike Ellwood
Mike Ellwood
May 19, 2020 11:51 AM
Reply to  jay

But then he was shopped, because he obviously didn’t think the lockdown applied to him or his paramour. Now why was he shopped, and by whom?

Suspect list:
– MI5
– Jealous colleagues, or colleagues who knew he was breaking lockdown and thought he shouldn’t get away with it
– just pure “investigative journalists” spying on his house (but who tipped them off that there was a story?)
– the husband of the paramour or friends of his (but it was said to be an “open marriage”, so why would they care?)
– civil servants
– government politicians

Most likely I think it was politicians helped by MI5. They needed a sacrificial lamb for when it becomes more widely appreciated and accepted that the lockdown was never justified. It is the “dodgy dossier” of the “Covid-19” saga.

It doesn’t get them off the hook of course because they should have asked for second opinions, but it provides a useful distraction.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 12:30 PM
Reply to  Mike Ellwood

They could have D-Noticed it, the fact that the story is in the MSM is further proof that this is a hoax. If the danger is real, Boris would have had the perfect reason for saying ‘in the grip of this fearfull pandemic’, it is not in the public interest to publish.
Also, Strange How His bit stuff has connections to No 10 is it not…

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
May 19, 2020 1:43 PM
Reply to  Brian Sides

I cannot understand how any scientifically literate person could think that the outcome of a computer model is scientific evidence. It isn’t. It is the mathematically inevitable result of the assumptions.

jay
jay
May 19, 2020 9:15 AM

Under the guise of caring for us all, Satanically inspired criminal fools are preventing my Wife from seeing, visiting Her first Grandchild, just turned 18 months. It is breaking Her heart. ..This is nothing compared to the pain and suffering others are caused because of this evil fakery. This isn’t “neonazism”, is it??? Is it worse or better than what Hitler would have done? Are the lies more damaging than Goebels? Did Dr Mengelas inject aborted fetus material into the bodies of His victims?

Clearly, Christ did not forbid the bearing of arms, since at least one of His Apostles bore arms. Peter acted in a miss-guided way, as He no doubt thought to defend Christ when they came to arrest and then crucificy Him.

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear.

Christ does Heal the man.

However, during these end times, we are minded:

Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

We canna change the law’s of prophecy Captin…

In rising up, we would simply become part of the problem. Evil is being given enough rope to hang itself right now. This is part of God’s plan. At the end, Christ will do what He has to on our behalf to remove the evil doers. They will have had their chance, His cheek has already been turned and it will not be smacked again and the Lake of Fire awaits the unrepentant. So, let’s just let it do exactly that without helping it.

Now as for the Quakers, while it is not against any commandment to live, isolated from the world. Christ did not, did He?

You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.

As a Christain, I believe that there is no such thing as “race”. We are all from Noah, all are at least cousins. “Racism” is a misnomer which describes peoples cultural habits which rub us up the wrong way. These habits can, wrongly be judged by a persons appearance. Don’t worry: Eventually, they will all be wanting to ‘change sex’, be a rap star or lift other men’s shirts. Even the Children of the Muslims…

Indeed, the purpose of mass immigration is NOT about helping the poor, the ultimate aim is to bring us all down. So, as a Christian my conscience is clear when I criticise such politically motivated actions. Rest assured, the real ruler of this world hates us all, straight, gay, black and yellow etc etc

I am by no means a fan of any man inspired ideology. But, racism, gun bearing, genocide is that all the fault of the Right Wing Nut Jobs and Hitler fans?

Of course, Stalin, was a well known neo-nazi who killed many more people than all of the other Nazis in History. Stalin was at one time ‘our’ ally. Add the terrors of Stalin to the murders commited by Mao, another 100 million…

But, it is perfectly acceptable for politicians to say, that they are “fans” of Mao without suffering the same critiscm if they said they were fans of Hitler…

Stay Safe, follow Christ!

Dee
Dee
May 19, 2020 9:26 AM
Reply to  jay

Go and see your grandchild. Nobody can prevent you from being with your own family members.