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The Groupthink Pandemic

Kevin Smith

Image source here.

Groupthink is all around us. Decision-making in government, in the media and at work. It’s slowly killing the world.

In the background of the most important events, the Covid-19 response and increasing tension and conflict in the world, it might be worth looking through some of this in a bit more detail.

I’ve experienced groupthink working for large organisations, most notably in my last job. We were tasked with investigating and solving complex problems. Some technical expertise helped but was not crucial to the role.

Critical thinking and balancing evidence and differing viewpoints was key.

Yet the organisation decided that this was no longer required and changed the whole operating model to a one-size fits all type of call-centre. This new high-risk approach was recommended to us by the outside consultants Price Waterhouse Coopers (PWC) who were clueless about our business.

Those of us who were experienced in the role argued that the model wouldn’t work. But the organisation ploughed on regardless. It was obvious from day one that the financials didn’t stack up which they tried to deny and later concealed.

The executive largely ignored our concerns to start but then paid limited lip-service when the wheels started to come off. Anyway, in the end they offered us redundancy while employing fresh university graduates to replace us. As far as I know the place is still in denial and heading down the pan.

Groupthink is described as follows:

Groupthink is a term first used in 1972 by social psychologist Irving L. Janis that refers to a psychological phenomenon in which people strive for consensus within a group. In many cases, people will set aside their own personal beliefs or adopt the opinion of the rest of the group.

People who are opposed to the decisions or overriding opinion of the group as a whole frequently remain quiet, preferring to keep the peace rather than disrupt the uniformity of the crowd’.

Groupthink is common where group members have similar backgrounds and particularly where that group is placed under stress, resulting in irrational decision outcomes.

These are the main behaviors to watch out for:

  1. Illusions of invulnerability lead members of the group to be overly optimistic and engage in risk-taking.
  2. Unquestioned beliefs lead members to ignore possible moral problems and ignore the consequences of individual and group actions.
  3. Rationalising prevents members from reconsidering their beliefs and causes them to ignore warning signs.
  4. Stereotyping leads members of the in-group to ignore or even demonise out-group members who may oppose or challenge the group’s ideas.
  5. Self-censorship causes people who might have doubts to hide their fears or misgivings.
  6. “Mindguards” act as self-appointed censors to hide problematic information from the group.
  7. Illusions of unanimity lead members to believe that everyone is in agreement and feels the same way.
  8. Direct pressure to conform is often placed on members who pose questions, and those who question the group are often seen as disloyal or traitorous.

There are two further observations I made in the workplace, particularly relevant to groups going through major change or/and a crisis.

Firstly, they tend to swing from the status quo to the complete opposite. In our organisation, we definitely needed some changes and tweaks but we lurched towards a model which was completely unsuitable and unsustainable operationally and financially.

The other thing I noticed was our employers became control freaks. They started to talk down to us and our customers like children. They introduced office slogans such as ‘let’s crack on’ or ‘we’re all in this together’ and deflected from the problems of the disastrous reorganisation towards ‘celebrating diversity’ in the workplace. Critical thinking, creativity and expression were sucked out of the place.

The obvious analogy for all these behaviors is the response to Covid-19 when government ministers were collectively panicked into making extreme decisions on lockdown, using just one preferred source of ‘expertise’.

At the same time, they sidelined dissenters and independent experts who could have offered a calm, rational perspective and a targeted response to Covid-19.

In summing up this thinking and behavior, I’m reminded of these observations from Dr Malcolm Kendrick and Lord Sumption about the response to Covid-19. Dr Kendrick here:

We locked down the population that had virtually zero risk of getting any serious problems from the disease, and then spread it wildly among the highly vulnerable age group. If you had written a plan for making a complete bollocks of things you would have come up with this one”.

And Lord Sumption writing in the Mail on Sunday:

The Prime Minister, who in practice makes most of the decisions, has low political cunning but no governmental skills whatever. He is incapable of studying a complex problem in depth. He thinks as he speaks – in slogans.

These people have no idea what they are doing, because they are unable to think about more than one thing at a time or to look further ahead than the end of their noses.

The BBC – a case-study

A large organisation which has a high opinion of its news service. But of course, the reality is the opposite. There are so many groupthink case-studies but the BBC is as good as any, particularly in terms of making a bollocks of things.

The executives at the BBC and some senior correspondents will no doubt be aware that they run a politicised agenda of bias and misinformation on a grand scale. Outsiders who’ve researched their coverage will recognise this too. But this won’t be obvious to the vast majority of BBC employees, the victims of groupthink.

This came across in some of Andrew Marr’s incredulous reactions to Noam Chomsky’s observations about the media during their interview:

Andrew Marr: How can you know I’m self-censoring?

Noam Chomsky: I’m not saying you’re self-censoring. I’m sure you believe everything you say. But what I’m saying is if you believed something different you wouldn’t be sitting where you’re sitting.

I believe the foreign affairs reporting of the BBC is where this problem stands out most. Real expertise and impartiality has been completely absent from any reporting I’ve seen in recent years.

First, while not unusual in this profession, most journalists employed by the BBC will have a degree. Typically, when you look at today’s ‘top’ BBC journalists, many have attended the elite universities which tends to create a culture of like-minded people of similar backgrounds. This has been identified as one cause of creating groupthink.

Also, the younger journalists will be impressionable within the BBC hierarchy to the views and ways of the senior house-hold name journalists.

It’s sometimes said that there aren’t specific rules within the BBC and other media stating what a journalist can and can’t report and write and they generally don’t knowingly mislead. But they will learn almost instinctively to self-censor and operate within a set of unwritten, unspoken rules and a strait-jacket narrative.

The other problem in foreign affairs reporting is that BBC journalists and most others rarely visit the warzones. On Syria, they typically report from Lebanon or Turkey only occasionally venturing into a government or relatively safe terrorist or Kurd held area. So unlike previous conflicts, such as Bosnia where I remember at least a tiny degree of balance, journalists seldom see what is actually going on.

Under the pressure of deadlines they rely on dubious sources such as Al Qaeda terrorists and Bellingcat and pre-determined assumptions which conveniently slot in with the anti-Assad narrative of the BBC and establishment.

Recently, some grave doubts emerged about the OPCW report on the Douma incident, a huge story which has wider implications.

The investigations of Robert Stuart into a likely previously staged incident involving BBC journalists was swept under the carpet. Both matters have been ignored because the BBC have no way or will to refute evidence which goes against their bias.

On the other hand, the BBC are more than happy to provide extensive coverage to more allegations against Russia and Trump from anonymous sources, providing no background or balance within the overall of climate of related allegations which have collapsed or are unproven.

And in recent days the BBC has provided coverage on Hong Kong which looks like it’s come from a script.

It’s well known BBC journalists are silent on malpractice. We saw this with the Jimmy Savile scandal and decades of sexual abuse. This attitude is similar to what I experienced with my employer who were very vocal and proud of their anti-bullying and mental health policies. Yet when the staff were surveyed anonymously, bullying rates were through the roof.

The other obvious signs of groupthink within the BBC, particularly during the Covid-19 crisis, is dumbing-down and its slogan-filled website written as though their readers are idiots.

Another strong theme is a preoccupation with race and diversity, American affairs and general tittle-tattle, to the detriment of more pressing matters such as the longer-term and wider impact of the world’s current problems.

Covid-19 and our response to it is probably the most important event of our lifetime but there’s barely a peep about whether the response is necessary and proportionate. Instead, this totally rational viewpoint is only ever mentioned in the context of BBC articles about Covid-19 ‘conspiracy theories’.

Many of the examples I’ve described neatly fit in with groupthink behaviors and experiences I encountered in a large organisation.

But I think the biggest groupthink problem is with senior BBC journalists. Ultimately their lazy arrogance has trickled down to the newer journalists and so over time, wrong behavior has been normalised throughout.

The BBC ‘Grandees’

A few months ago Huw Edwards made some comments about accusations of bias directed towards the BBC, defending the corporation and journalists. These are some of the specific comments he made which to me showed a complete lack of understanding of the concerns people have.

The BBC is not, to put it politely, run like some newspapers, with an all-powerful proprietor and/or editor making his or her mark on the tone and direction of the coverage […] BBC News is a rather unsettling mix of awkward, contrary and assertive people who (in my very long experience) delight in either ignoring the suggestions of managers or simply telling them where to get off. That’s how it works.”

Around this time, I also recall Edwards arguing on Twitter on the subject and he said that it was ridiculous to say that journalists within the BBC were willfully misleading the public. His Twitter opponent replied that this was not what he had said and was simply stating that the BBC had fallen victim to groupthink. Edwards just couldn’t get his head past this, while continuing to attack and misrepresent BBC critics.

This defensive attitude and stereotyping of critics is classic groupthink behavior in which he, Nick Robinson and others have taken part.

I used to admire John Simpson and in the 1980s he visited Iran post-revolution. He wrote a book of the visit which I enjoyed. But in recent years, he has shown that he doesn’t understand modern geo-politics and like the BBC can only assess it in terms of the ethno-centric British view on the world and our influence.

In this President Putin press conference he asked the most ridiculous question imaginable which confirms he’s lost the plot. His question was about Russian behavior in the world and whether Putin wanted to create a new Cold War.

Putin wiped the floor with him pointing out the hundreds of NATO bases and numerous wars which put Simpson’s aspersions into their rightful place.

Jeremy Bowen is another who has lost his way. I saw a recent report from him from the position of a Christian militia unit fighting terrorists in Syria.

Again, BBC arrogance was on full display. His report made generalised comparisons between him meeting Serbs in Bosnia in the 1990s and these Syrian fighters, clearly indicating that he doesn’t listen and is not interested in Syrian views on western complicity and the White Helmets.

In the usual group-speak he described the Syrian Government ‘the regime’ and Al Qaeda as ‘rebels’. His report simply rubber-stamped the BBC coverage of the whole conflict.

This arrogance is typical of journalists who rely on their past achievements, creating an air of gravitas to impress their audience. The reality is his reporting is based on no substance and outdated and lazy assumptions.

The madness of John Sweeney

Ex-BBC nowadays, John Sweeney’s arrogance is off the scale. These days he spends his time on Twitter attacking lockdown sceptics, like Peter Hitchens accusing him of ‘killing’ his Mail on Sunday column readers with his views on Covid-19 lockdown.

Sweeney is off his trolley but the reality is he probably always was as this clip during his BBC days shows.

This behaviour, extreme as it is, certainly suggests groupthink played a big part somewhere in his career.

An illusion of sanity

BBC Dateline is a current affairs TV panel discussion which I occasionally watched. The panel which changed regularly were seemingly well qualified with foreign writers and journalists which included Russia or Arab affairs experts.

Sitting around that table they gave the impression of people who knew what they were talking about.

However, when you listened carefully to what they were saying, there was very little substance. Their arguments, all based on a simple premise that Russia/Syria are bad, the West is good, tempered with a little occasional criticism of western policy to give the illusion of balance.

Occasionally you would have a more pro-Russia expert on but with the prevailing consensus of the rest of the panel, his or her views would be ridiculed. It got to the point any dissenting panel member started to self-censor to sound more credible, perhaps to remain on the panel. This is the dilemma for any progressively minded BBC guest nowadays.

Peter Hitchens who complains the BBC never invite him on, appeared on Good Morning Britain (GMB) recently. As is normal with many GMB debates, the discussion on Covid-19 descended to retorts and abuse and was simply not the forum for Hitchens to get across his well thought out points on the big picture.

But I don’t think he would have fared any better on the BBC. The BBC create an illusion of civilised, intelligent discussion but the reality is there is no substance, depth or balance. The crucial discussion points about Covid-19 or conflict in the world don’t get a hearing. The premise and the rules are already set in stone before the guests arrive.

Final thoughts

There are many reasons why the world is in its current madness and on the brink of serious conflict.

Groupthink in government, the media and the general public is probably a key factor as this represents the thinking culture alongside and below the psychopaths and war criminals who pull the strings.

It’s almost impossible to break this cycle by chipping away at it. But it’s possible a large event connected to Covid-19 or a major war will be the catalyst which might shock us out of our distorted view of reality.

In the meantime, independent commentators and ex-MSM like Peter Hitchens, Anna Brees and Tareq Haddad, are putting their careers on the line and self-interests aside. We can only encourage others employed by the BBC and other media to be brave and do the same.

Certainly, the consequences will be far more disastrous doing nothing and not speaking up.

In the sudden, new founded willingness to demonstrate on the streets perhaps those participating might be better reflecting on who and what the real enemy is.

Party politics, Brexit and Black Lives Matter really don’t matter.

Groupthink, escalating world conflict, All Lives Matter, including Syrians, Libyans, Palestinians and Blacks,(including those outside of US,UK and Europe) together with the post-Covid-19 march to an uncertain ‘new normal’, are the issues which matter right now.

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Categories: latest, Media Criticism, UK
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Science Of No Mind
Science Of No Mind
Jul 11, 2020 9:41 AM

During the current ‘pandemic’ the UK government has employed ‘scientists’ and the 77th Brigade of the British army, to engage in information warfare using psychological operations online against British citizens to influence and control their behavior, with supporting propaganda and classical conditioning methods facilitated through the mainstream press and media. To what end? The sociopaths who are responsible for this catastrophe are the politicians who are in power. They want more and more power. They want the full population to fully embrace their totalitarian agenda. Unenlightened people are always self-destructive. They are self-destructive because they don’t know why they are here, where they are going, what the meaning and purpose of their life is. Without knowing anything about themselves, whatever they do is going to be harmful. It is going to be harmful to you, and through you, to others. They cannot do anything but harm because their eyes are… Read more »

David A
David A
Jul 10, 2020 10:48 PM

It seemed like we worked for the same company, until I saw the consultants were PWC. Substitute with Ernst & Young and I had exactly the same experience.

Binra
Binra
Jul 10, 2020 1:02 PM

Nested or derivative and dissociated identity operates a hierarchy of control.   That which identifies us truly, opens fluid hierarchies of workable potential as the movement of our being. When we are wholly given to what we do we know freedom to be ourselves as a relational quality of our being.   The first represents fear blocking awareness of being in demands that deny the second.   The hierarchy of control is overtly denying individual right and freedom of expression and association as a kneel or be kneeled on chokehold of regulatory imposition and enforcement.   That which identifies us in living expression is not coercive upon us – but if we seek to usurp or control life, we meet an experience of being denied and controlled that may at first hide behind the mask of the belief we can control life, and that we want to.   Our capacity… Read more »

Arby
Arby
Jul 9, 2020 1:31 AM

Consultants! They are a bane. They are a ruined bunch advising a ruined bunch. Things go from bad to worse with consultants. Omnicom (whose official title I don’t know; consultants or something else) advises the Toronto Transit Commission I’m sure. It says a lot that the company I work for, the transit system I use and Omnicom, which has as a major client, the TTC, all make an appearance (not favorably) in Peter Phillips’s “Giants – The Global Power Elite.” I made it known to the TTC, in a complaint letter, that I know that they are a major client of a company that is invested in (via marketing for) companies that make all kinds of nasty products, including pharmaceuticals. They responded with a non response. My complaint included info that Vaccine Choice Canada passed to me when I pointed out in my back and forth with them that I… Read more »

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Jul 9, 2020 8:30 AM
Reply to  Arby

I worked for consultants for some years and the truth is that they are fronts for the security services in many cases. They put their own employees under 24/7 surveillance, tap their telephones, hack their home computers and pay bribes to public officials to win contracts. They also blackmail public officials they discovered were shacking up with prostitutes occasionally.
 
‘International Trade’ is a front for the Security Services.

Arby
Arby
Jul 9, 2020 12:38 PM
Reply to  Rhys Jaggar

Interesting.

richard
richard
Jul 8, 2020 5:22 PM

The good news is the BBC is haemorrhaging viewers, losing 35% in the last 6 years. This is a loss of income of about £1.5 billion. The median age of their viewers is 60.

hotrod31
hotrod31
Jul 9, 2020 11:58 PM
Reply to  richard

I don’t believe that the BBC haemorrhaging viewers is necessarily ‘good news’. Murdoch and his minions have been plugging away tirelessly to diminish or eradicate all public media platforms, in most countries. In Australia, he has ensured that the various Conservative Governments have reduced the ABC to virtual lap-dog status … by starving the network of funding. As bad and biased as the public networks have become – at least they are beholden to some public scrutiny … once they’re ‘gone’ they’re gone.

Binra
Binra
Jul 11, 2020 11:45 AM
Reply to  hotrod31

Its function is what operates through what is left of a ‘masking of public service’. If you want the ‘service’ use it. If you recognise the function operating as the framing of your thought, lose it.   If BBC was scrapped it would only be to use other or new forms of identity reinforcement and social engineering. For those who are invested in such functions have the wherewithal to play apparently competing or contrasting roles from the shadows.   Good news meets you in truth. But invested identity in outcomes, sets the prerequisite for an identification in the form of an outcome as invested ‘truth’.   Token gestures can be used to maintain an illusion of accountability. The knitworking of the function of control to gain invested outcomes – over against feared pain of loss – is an establishment of distributing fear, pain and loss, to the population at large… Read more »

Colin Fenwick
Colin Fenwick
Jul 15, 2020 6:38 AM
Reply to  hotrod31

“In Australia, he [Murdoch] has ensured that the various Conservative Governments have reduced the ABC to virtual lap-dog status … by starving the network of funding.”
 
Nonsense. The ABC receives over $1 Billion in annual funding from taxpayers which continues to increase very year.
 

richard
richard
Jul 8, 2020 5:12 PM

Great article. I know some people who have made Panorama programmes who would totally agree with the above.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Jul 8, 2020 4:45 PM

Testing, testing: my first comment on an article about censorship has gone to moderation.
 
It may be due to using a word associated with excrement of the male bovine.
 
Let us see if this passes the censors 😁

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Jul 8, 2020 4:43 PM

The reality is that Groupthink is a result of incompetent leadership allied to extreme ambition.   When you have an extremely ambitious incompetent skilled at climbing greasy poles, it does not take too long before more intelligent people see through their bullshit and call them out on it.   Obviously, in that scenario, either the buffoon must resign or they must assert their dominance, which of course has to come through suppressing critical thought as critical thought will lead to their dismissal.   Extreme understanding of the process skills of political machiavellianism allied to a technical incompetence is the surest route to dictatorship, conformity and Groupthink known.   The important point is that certain actors behind the scenes prosper when idiots are in positions of public leadership.   The central discussion should focus on who benefits from third rate senior management and public leaders and why everyone tolerates their actions… Read more »

Carlo Weeks
Carlo Weeks
Jul 8, 2020 2:13 PM

Mainstream media have been biased for a very long time. However, this so called “pandemic” has tightened the censorship of any real news and turned news outlets into propagators of propaganda for the population reduction agenda.
 
This is verified on The Centres for Disease Control and Prevention website. It contains “recommendations” from Event 201 (a practice Pandemic emergency).
 
http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/exercises/
 
It’s clear from their exercises in Pandemic response that it requires the media, public health authorities, social media companies, faith leaders etc to get behind the official line, everything else is deemed to be fake news and will be actively suppressed
 
Not only is there no freedom of the press, we are being actively manipulated by the press and social media!

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 8, 2020 1:12 AM

Worth watching….short
https://youtu.be/3yk3xezML8Q

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 10:53 PM

” It is crowds rather than isolated individuals that may be induced to run the risk of death to secure the triumph of a creed or an idea…it is of such heroism that history is made ” ( Gustave Le Bon )   A group is composed of individuals united by a common goal , idea or ideology. Unfortunately, these individuals also share another commonality.And that’s the unfortunate trait that desires only a superficial outline of the finer details of the particular cause they have chosen to follow the herd to fight for.They have no desire to throw away time asking questions or studying. They see no benefit in thinking critically. They prize the membership of a club more.This makes them easy prey for any leaders who wish to harness large numbers to follow him and his cause.To the unscrupulous leader, the short attention span and lack of intellectual curiosity of potential… Read more »

Zen Priest
Zen Priest
Jul 8, 2020 8:08 AM
Reply to  jura calling

Fantastic comment.

Ian
Ian
Jul 8, 2020 4:26 PM
Reply to  jura calling

This is the most insightful and thought-provoking comment I’ve read in a long time. Thank you for restoring a little of my rapidly evaporating sanity. Trying to stay sane and positive whilst envisioning the technological dystopia into which humanity appears to be sleepwalking is a challenge, to say the least. Perhaps I need to take up Buddhism, or something of that nature.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 8, 2020 7:29 PM
Reply to  Ian

Thanks Ian and Zen…
 
We have to keep the faith. A battle in itself. To one side are the nihilists playing with our minds and our planet ; to the other is the massed ranks eating it all and obediently challenging us on their behalf.
 
As conventional religions go, Buddhism’s at least useful. It doesn’t tell us to sit and bow and wait for a caped crusader -style messiah to turn up. It encourages us to look inside and teach ourselves to understand the ( mental ) illness inflicted on the whole race.In theory we are our own God.
 
The Kybalion is a good choice of read. That is more about the human condition and the tricks we play on our own minds.How we create illusions then allow ourselves to be confounded by them. Worth thinking about.

Ian
Ian
Jul 9, 2020 6:34 PM
Reply to  Jura Calling

I’d not heard of the Kybalion before; I’ve done a quick bit of research and it looks interesting, so I’ve ordered a copy. The older I get, the more I realise that inner stability is key to living a balanced life, so any reading material offering advice along those lines is surely worth a read. Thanks for the recommendation.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 9, 2020 8:54 PM
Reply to  Ian

You’re welcome Ian. You won’t be sorry.

Zen Priest
Zen Priest
Jul 9, 2020 6:51 AM
Reply to  Ian

One of the things that attracted me to Buhddism and Taoism is that it’s therapy for the mind. It’s all about undoing the bullshit that we tie ourselves in knots with. I have decided that whatever the bastards take from me, they won’t take my sanity. I will remain clear headed even if it comes to taking down a couple of these tyrants if they ever come for me in the night.

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 7, 2020 5:32 PM

Some of the “best and brightest” are actually the biggest group thinkers.
 
The majority of the As and A*s in science at my school were those who lapped up all the scientific theories which make up the majority of ‘science’. The ‘Big Bang’, space etc. These were not original thinkers necessarily. Simply people who would believe what they were told and remember it.
 
I was completely turned off by science as I saw none of it could be tested and verified. To be good at science you just had to join in on the cult of whatever the science said.
 
And some of those others went on to study science at uni and can now call themselves ‘scientists’. Without necessarily having a scientific mind at all.
 
A person can make a good living from being a reliable group thinker.

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 7, 2020 5:32 PM
Reply to  ZenPriest

*much of it could not be tested and verified.

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 5:56 PM
Reply to  ZenPriest

Education is about rote learning.Grades are awarded in line with your ability to remember what it said in the book. Exams at school at any level are memory tests.This isn’t a positive thing for herd mentality. It rewards groups that don’t question the official book versions of a discipline.Achieving an A* is a mark of how good your memory is.School doesn’t teach, it trains.It prepares you to take that mindset into the world.Only when you begin to question do you begin to learn.

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 7, 2020 6:41 PM
Reply to  jura calling

Well put. What motivation is there for the student whose teachers can’t adequately answer the majority of his questions? Apathy, and a desire to learn for oneself was the outcome for me.

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 10:40 PM
Reply to  ZenPriest

I suppose the way to expose the limits of the conventional teaching and learning standards is to point to the difference between knowledge and understanding. Can the student who gave the right answer to a question be relied upon to expand and talk about the area ? I can quote the equation for Einstein’s theory of relativity. Everyone can.But who can explain it.

Ian
Ian
Jul 8, 2020 4:53 PM
Reply to  ZenPriest

Likewise. I increasingly spent my time in a prestigious secondary school feeling isolated and under-stimulated, which led to me acting out, skipping lessons, being suspended numerous times (all stick, no carrot) until finally being expelled. Secondary school, and perhaps the lack of father figure too, had transformed a bright 10 year old, eager to learn, into a 16 year old outcast. I had no clue what to do with my life. I spent the next 10+ years in the wilderness, drifting between manual labour jobs, battling depression and anxiety, until something snapped and I voluntarily picked up a book for the first time in over 15 years (as a child, I’d had a voracious appetite for reading). The book was Moby Dick. It was a largely dry read, interspersed however by paragraphs of such poetic beauty that I was overwhelmed; they seemed to flick a switch inside me. I gradually… Read more »

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 8, 2020 6:53 PM
Reply to  Ian

Nice to read your story. A lot rang true for me.
Maybe one of the good things to come out of this scamdemic is that education is completely overhauled. Conventional schooling seems increasingly irrelevant to me for all, not just the bright ones lacking parents to push them.

richard
richard
Jul 7, 2020 8:51 PM
Reply to  jura calling

Yes, I think that is mostly right, tho’ I remember the odd teacher that introduced us to critical thinking -(a long time ago).
However, you can read a book on music or painting but it won’t make you creative if you have no talent – something you are born with – a gift. Likewise, you can know all about the great philosophers but that won’t make you philosophical in yourself.

Peter
Peter
Jul 7, 2020 1:18 PM

Excellent article, much appreciate the links. But i have some points.   “We locked down the population that had virtually zero risk of getting any serious problems from the disease, and then spread it wildly among the highly vulnerable age group. If you had written a plan for making a complete bollocks of things you would have come up with this one”.   I would lie to agree with you that the plan was a complete bollocks, but the plan achieved everything it it was intended to do. 1] regardless of party, both major parties have said that the elderly are now to expensive to maintain. So the removal of [at last count over 20000 in the UK] is a large saving. 2] Residential homes for the elderly are now in dire straights [financially] as such will be vunerable to takeover by large health care providers, who in turn will… Read more »

Glenda
Glenda
Jul 7, 2020 6:02 AM

“Where all think alike, no one thinks very much” Walter Lippman, twice winner of Pulitzer Prize in journalism.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 7, 2020 12:39 PM
Reply to  Glenda

How to turn a commonplace but reasonably meaningful oft-thought thought into dressed up trite, should one so wish? Check out the bold face:

“Where all think alike, no one thinks very much” Walter Lippman, twice winner of Pulitzer Prize in journalism.

richard
richard
Jul 7, 2020 1:49 PM
Reply to  Robbobbobin

trite is an adjective – not a noun.
 

zippyb
zippyb
Jul 7, 2020 8:00 PM
Reply to  richard

possibly meant ‘tripe’

richard
richard
Jul 7, 2020 8:54 PM
Reply to  zippyb

oops, yes you’re right. Apologies to Robbobbobin

Mishko
Mishko
Jul 7, 2020 3:19 AM

As an infant I was struck by Kate Bush and Debbie Harrie.
How beautiful and talented etc and so on. Grace, presence.
So many years later after having lived and learned a little I now admire
actual and real women minus the music industry PR machine.
Such as Vanessa Beeley, Eva Bartlett and Corey Morningstar.
I mean, goddamn. My hat off and a bow to those three.

…and the lady from Frome Stop War and the feisty writer of the
Wrench In The Gears blog ofcourse. Goes without saying. A given.
Did I actually forget a certain canadian woman that blogs as PennyForYourThoughts2?
Why would I do that? I mean, she punches harder and pierces deeper
with her analysis than MoonOfAlabama, consistently. But anyways.

richard
richard
Jul 7, 2020 1:52 PM
Reply to  Mishko

these women are a group. I think.

sam2
sam2
Jul 7, 2020 12:39 AM

Dear Prime Minister, CHALLENGE TO PUBLIC HEALTH ENGLAND THAT THEY MUST SHOW PROOF THAT A VIRUS EXISTS WHICH CAUSES COVID-19 OR DECLARE THERE IS NO VIRUS AND END THE VAX AND TRAX PROGRAMMES We understand that the World Health Organisation has advised Public Health England not to isolate and purify a ‘virus’ said to cause the disease ‘Covid-19.’ There are major questions over the validity of the testing procedures being used to determine the presence in the UK population of the putative ‘Covid19 virus’ specifically relating to the throat swab (RT-PCR test) and evidence of previous infection using antibody tests. The disease-causing effects of any virus are scientifically verified using Koch’s Postulates of which four conditions must be met. Currently the virus thought to cause Covid-19 does not meet any of them. Fulfillment of Koch’s Postulates requires that the so-called Covid-19 virus must be isolated and purified. This has not… Read more »

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 4:38 AM
Reply to  sam2

link, please. especially for this part:
 

We understand that the World Health Organisation has advised Public Health England not to isolate and purify a ‘virus’ said to cause the disease ‘Covid-19.’

sam2
sam2
Jul 7, 2020 11:19 AM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

yes. I’ve lost the link
Its Piers Corbyn’s STAND UP X twitter account or from his website
http://www.weatheraction.com/

Bo Lox
Bo Lox
Jul 7, 2020 1:50 PM
Reply to  sam2

Dr Kevin P. Corbett BA (Art) University of Reading, Higher Diploma (Fine Art) Slade School of Fine Art University College London

 

Piers Corbyn

 
An artist and an oddball who makes poor weather forecasts (I know, I paid good money for one). Yep, their knowledge of epidemiology must be taken really seriously.
 

sam2
sam2
Jul 7, 2020 9:20 PM
Reply to  Bo Lox

He’s only asking for the government to prove they have isolated the virus. What is wrong with that? people with no arguement always attack the messenger
 

Mr Bo Lox
Mr Bo Lox
Jul 7, 2020 1:56 PM
Reply to  sam2

 

Dr Kevin P. Corbett BA (Art) University of Reading, Higher Diploma (Fine Art) Slade School of Fine Art University College London

 

Piers Corbyn

 
An artist and an oddball who makes poor weather forecasts (I know, I paid good money for one). Yep, their knowledge of epidemiology must be taken really seriously.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 8, 2020 11:25 AM
Reply to  Mr Bo Lox

epidemiology is dodgy output data then used to claim the theoretical input is true. adrenal fatigue caused by media terrorism, low sun exposure, dangerous medical treatments are the verifiable mechanistic inputs.

manuel
manuel
Jul 6, 2020 11:57 PM

It seems really nnaive to keep on thinking that thidbwhole thing is due to stupidity, grpup mentality or incompentence. To eeay to be true. This whole thing is a plan in wich, even counting wwit tth stupiditu of some politicians, everyone pplys a role, whwhth they know or not. People that had plan this ararent stupid. Are evil. And the rest of humanity that follows are sheep mentality. Too many years programed by tv and media. Now mind are comoletely hijacked. And the rest of us ttha are not in that, in a difficult situation. All we can do is fight against( not the best choice in my opinion) or try to create a new world based in separation. New communitys . Our from cityies. There is no exit. Humans are far ffro wwakin up. We are total slaves ttat llove to be enslaved, as parrots that u live the… Read more »

richard
richard
Jul 7, 2020 2:05 PM
Reply to  manuel

typos notwithstanding, a big “yes” to everything you said. Though I’m not so sure about starting up our own world…

Manuel
Manuel
Jul 7, 2020 3:45 PM
Reply to  richard

They will want us to live in cities to control us better It is time to run away from big cities to countryside or so. If they let us. We will see. Greetings😊

sam2
sam2
Jul 6, 2020 11:51 PM

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/
<i>High Court Decision
Disappointed beyond measure to let you know that we have received the
High Court ruling and the Judge has disallowed our case – essentially
this means we have no recourse to the law.

Robbobbobin
Robbobbobin
Jul 7, 2020 1:00 PM
Reply to  sam2

Good to see there’s still a High Court Judge with at least half a brain.

Kalen
Kalen
Jul 6, 2020 10:42 PM

Spreading baseless long repudiates by hard evidences COVID propaganda about efficacy of face masks, social distancing and lockdown by corporate health providers. An example from from OMNI group.

http://omnifamilyhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/E04A20B_2020_Facebook_Post_Images_June-Chance-of-Transmission.jpg

It has uncanny resemblance to terrorism risks color code scheme from 2002.

kevin king
kevin king
Jul 6, 2020 8:46 PM

I think you’re being far too generous to these journos.They are prostitutes for the global corporations, the deep state and the intelligence services.They are simply on payroll. The level of corruption is no better described by Udo Ulfkotte in his book ‘Gekaufte Journalisten’. If you read that then you can understand that the MSM is nothing more than the propaganda arm of the cabal running this covid hoax. Ulfkotte supposedly died of a heart attack at 56. Having read the book I have little doubt he was murdered. Group think has nothing to do with it.

The Dead Messenger
The Dead Messenger
Jul 7, 2020 10:18 PM
Reply to  kevin king

Maybe for some, but it’s a real thing in many settings, not least social media.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 8, 2020 11:32 AM
Reply to  kevin king

they are terrorists not journalists.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 6, 2020 8:02 PM

MISNOMER ALERT!
“Groupthink” (such as in critical thinking or critical thought) has nothing to do with it.This is more in the line of ass kissing, butt licking, brown nosing or just plain old fashioned groveling.
Whatever, they should get used to the jackboot stomping on their sheep like faces forever.

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Jul 6, 2020 5:49 PM

Should we consider it an example of “group think,” (or simple ethical and moral corruption), that our Western MSM will studiously refuse to report the obvious reality – which is that Ghislaine Maxwell’s “legal charges” are not only laughably inadequate to her alleged crimes, but also involve only an early 1990’s time-frame that thus manages to avoid seeking any later evidence that would implicate most of the most powerful people on the planet who are connected to her and Epstein? Whitney Webb as usual is spot on the money with this analysis.

Daniel Spaniel
Daniel Spaniel
Jul 6, 2020 5:13 PM

“If the formation is itself off course, then the man who is really to get “on course” must leave the formation. But it is possible to do so, if one desires, without screeches and screams, and without terrorizing the already terrified formation that one has to leave.” RD Laing, The Politics Of Experience, p. Penguin 1967, p.99.

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Jul 6, 2020 5:55 PM
Reply to  Daniel Spaniel

Laing also points out that it isn’t the paranoid schizophrenic who is the true “danger to society,” but rather the well trained bomber pilot who on a moments notice and without questioning – will take to the air and proceed to drop nuclear weapons on literally millions of innocent fellow humans. This obedience to such complete insanity – as Laing points out – shows the pilot passes the test as meeting our Western society’s criteria for what is considered – “normal” – “sane” human behavior.

sam2
sam2
Jul 6, 2020 4:34 PM

Groupthink plays its part but its worse than that
Those in senior positions at the BBC know what they are doing. Dissent is not accepted. MI5 have always had a presence there. Many journalists have marxist beliefs and think its a ‘good thing’ to bring down our civlisation so go along with it. They are useless idiots and will be got rid of as soon as their usefullness is over.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 7:42 PM
Reply to  sam2

they prepped it for years like all the hospital dramas, the costume dramas etc. they all pretty much are built to show the doctors, police etc saving the day. they put all sorts of germ theory in these. then they make actual pandemic ones aswell. sometimes the virus might be a serial killer or a ghost. it is the general belief in the external threat, danger lurking in nature, death in the shower, bath. it is satanic really. always tragedy, betrayal, murder etc. it is harmful to watch this shit day after day warping minds into some darkness and openness for bad outcomes. it goes back into history like i saw romeo and juliet and thought realy this is shit satanic stuff not some great play. how did that manage to be considered good? i was shocked.

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 5:22 AM
Reply to  sam2

MI5 have always had a presence there. Many journalists have marxist beliefs
 
yes, obviously nobody is more eager to obey the secret agents of the capitalist state, than marxists.

sam2
sam2
Jul 6, 2020 4:32 PM
bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 5:52 PM
Reply to  sam2

once again ‘no impact assessment’ has been made – they do not care one bit about the consequences to the population of these misdeeds and now they have absolutely no opposition to lockdown it’s full steam ahead for the dictatorship – hope everyone is happy
 

bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 4:25 PM

 
 
@simondolan
 
UPDATE
 
Very disappointed to let you know that the Judge refused permission to challenge the Lockdown.
 
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/DolanJudgment-FINAL-003-1.pdf

Grafter
Grafter
Jul 6, 2020 11:29 PM
Reply to  bob

British democracy in action .

Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings
Jul 6, 2020 3:27 PM

The managers at the bbc think they are being clever. They think that their bias and lies are going unnoticed.   The lies, the misdirection, the propaganda being slipped into bbc programming schedules, this hasn’t gone unnoticed by many Brits which is reflected in the dwindling tribute being forced from the public. Those of us who cannot stand the stench given off by the bbc stopped paying for this disservice and switch off long ago. So now they resort to the courts to extract money with menaces via Capita, one of the largest shyster corporations in Blighty.   This organisation did not lose its way, it was expunged of critical thinkers and infiltrated with useful idiots. Many ‘journalists’ at the bbc are just treading the grapes of propaganda knowing full well that down the line British lives will be lost because of their duplicity. Still it pays the mortgage and… Read more »

PWL
PWL
Jul 6, 2020 2:23 PM

Peter Hitchens is doing a swell job without going on the BBC – in fact his success depends on it. Sweeney still works for the same master (same one as does Hitchens) – but while seconded to the BBC collaborated with the “Tommy Robinson” industrial complex in a failed attempt to provoke street politics.
 
Group think equals a bad excuse for being crap.

Paul
Paul
Jul 6, 2020 1:56 PM

I think it’s an excellent idea for the brainwashed sheep to wear these face nappies.

It’ll catch the shit coming out of their mouths.

timfrom
timfrom
Jul 6, 2020 1:21 PM

That John Sweeney clip is an absolute peach! I’d not seen it before, so thanks.

Great article all round, in fact. You’re definitely onto something, Kevin.

Penny
Penny
Jul 6, 2020 12:49 PM

Some interesting news regarding this virus- Coronavirus Pandemic UNLIKELY To Have Started in China. Reality Check For the true believers & the deceivers  Not sure if it was mentioned here at off Guardian that covid-19 had been found in waste water collected in 2019? Of, course it had also been found in waste water in other locations in late 2019. What I find very interesting is Dr Tom Jefferson at the Centre for Evidence Bases Medicine is suggesting this virus had a very different mode of transmission. Having to do with feces and unwashed hands and contamination via those unwashed hands and through the products those filthy hands have touched.   I’m advocating for an “ass mask” aka diaper. So you can defecate into the ass mask and not have to worry about wiping or washing your hands… Thereby keeping the transmission of the virus down. 😉   “Dr Tom… Read more »

Mr Perfect
Mr Perfect
Jul 6, 2020 1:21 PM
Reply to  Penny

Instead of wiping your arse you filthy Anglo-Saxons ,why don’t you use a bidet ,a high tech Japenese version or the very satisfying ,if the pressure is right,Thai Bum Gun.

Mike Ellwood (Oxon, UK)
Mike Ellwood (Oxon, UK)
Jul 6, 2020 6:49 PM
Reply to  Penny

SARS1 “disappeared” because it probably never existed in the first place. How did they purify, isolate and identify it? Probably the same way they are doing with SARS-CoV-2: i.e. not at all; not really.

Penny
Penny
Jul 7, 2020 1:57 PM

Hey Mike
 
Anything is possible. I go on the premise these things have been identified, cause I really can’t comfortably prove otherwise

Binra
Binra
Jul 9, 2020 10:56 PM
Reply to  Penny

Why put the onus on disproving an assertion that is used to leverage such draconian and catastrophic consequence?
 
You can read books like Fear of the Invisible or Virusmania and get a good overall background on the corruption involved.

Penny
Penny
Jul 6, 2020 12:40 PM

Not all of us have a distorted view of reality. Some of us go about finding out information for ourselves- not being assimilated into a group think mindset.
 
Though I can see that group think is a huge factor in this Covid psyop. Having written briefly about it last month
 
Covid 1984- Group Think and Mass Hysteria 

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs when a group forms a quick opinion that matches the group consensus, rather than critically evaluating the information. Mass hysteria can be seen as an extreme example of groupthink. 

Groupthink seems to occur most often when a respected or persuasive leader is present, inspiring members to agree with their opinion.

 
 
 

Penny
Penny
Jul 6, 2020 12:42 PM
Reply to  Penny

Bill Gates certainly represents the most persuasive leader- recalling his ever present ugliness everywhere.
 

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Jul 6, 2020 4:05 PM
Reply to  Penny

He is utterly revolting constructed looking creature isn’t he?

He is looks like the contents of every dirty overflowed ash tray in the dwelling of a chronic chain smoker who’s been dead for months in his bedsit.

Penny
Penny
Jul 6, 2020 4:59 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

“He is utterly revolting constructed looking creature isn’t he?”
 
Him and his wife She’svery Stepford like in her mannerism
(Stepford wives)
And those that believe them???? stepford as well

Arsebiscuits
Arsebiscuits
Jul 6, 2020 5:05 PM
Reply to  Penny

Lockstepford
 
Shes a Microsoft stepford wives prototype model.
 
fairly shit and full of viruses.

Penny
Penny
Jul 7, 2020 1:58 PM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits

Lockstepford
 
Love it!

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 6, 2020 11:54 PM
Reply to  Penny

Not fair. At least his wife’s a real man 😉

Penny
Penny
Jul 7, 2020 1:58 PM
Reply to  Jura Calling

:))
 

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 5:40 AM
Reply to  Arsebiscuits
Penny
Penny
Jul 7, 2020 1:59 PM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

eerie similarity sans freckles
god that woman is homely!

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 2:57 PM
Reply to  Penny

I wouldn’t go home to her :/

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 9, 2020 12:00 PM
Reply to  Penny

it’s the demonic possession that does it.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Jul 6, 2020 3:27 PM
Reply to  Penny

@Penny: “Groupthink seems to occur most often when a respected or persuasive leader is present, inspiring members to agree with their opinion.”
 
Group Think in itself is no bad thing if the Leader leadeth us to green pastures. It can be a valuable means of mutual cooperation, as the Russian evolutionary theorist, Prince Kropotkin, pointed out a century ago. When most of Siberia is under rock hard ice, the Elk (or Moose) tend to follow an experienced Leader who remembers the way to winter feeding grounds. A fictional example of Good Leadership in a group of animals under Existential Threat is Watership Down.
 
Unfortunately I can see no good Leaders and no mutual cooperation in “The West” today — only Capitalist Class War Lords and their deluded sheeple.
 
“The hungry sheep look up, and are not fed” — Dante, Paradiso

Penny
Penny
Jul 6, 2020 4:55 PM
Reply to  Dr NG Maroudas

If I dare say, animals are not nearly as gullible and easily manipulated as most humans are.
 
 
 
 

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Jul 6, 2020 5:56 PM
Reply to  Penny

Superior intelligence might lead us astray. They say our greatest erogenous zone is the mind.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 8:20 PM
Reply to  Penny

i think humans have been abused for thousands of years. in the old days they would call the neighbouring country the virus and get the young men to invade. then they would have them rape the females. these would then be used to incubate more rapists and killers. the virus would then be inside, ingrained in the dna. slave, killer, rapist, rape victim etc. when people began to recover they would use more trauma. now is time to end the cycle by focusing on real health and closing the door on terrorist ideology for good.

Penny
Penny
Jul 7, 2020 2:01 PM
Reply to  Rachel

Rachel
 
I think there is something to the idea of trauma/fear being used to shape the minds of humanity through the many years…
 
Via numerous catastrophes- some natural /some manmade
 

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 5:45 AM
Reply to  Penny

cat herders might have something to say about that.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Jul 7, 2020 9:24 AM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

Herding cats is a sobering occupation: it teaches Homo Sapiens sapiens that he and his fellow herd and pack animals — dogs, horses, sheep and other cattle – are not the Lords and Lackies of Creation.
 
“A dog looks up to you, a cat looks down on you, a pig looks you in the eye, your brother”. — Winston Churchill, quoted by Isabella Tree, in Wilding.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 12:38 PM

The notion that the response to the coronavirus is an example of groupthink is far too polite. It is a case of collective madness, at best. The only other alternative is that there is an ulterior motive.   The ulterior motive explanation would necessarily involve a great many people acting collectively to exploit the pandemic by claiming to be concerned to protect public health whilst secretly wishing to achieve a completely different (set of) objective(s). The number of people who would have to be involved and their conflicts of interests makes me rule out this possibility unless and until there is evidence to prove it.   I therefore favour the collective madness explanation. We have seen cases of collective madness in the past. One of there features is that those affected by the madness are obviously incapable of seeing it as madness, but so too are many of those who… Read more »

Howard
Howard
Jul 6, 2020 1:08 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Your doubt about some sort of conspiracy, while of course it may prove correct, is based on very faulty logic. Specifically, you assume just because a great many people would have to be in on it, that alone makes it unlikely.
 
But in fact, your idea of collective madness itself casts doubt on your doubt, in that hundreds of million of people are clearly shown to be of the same (deluded) opinion. So, clearly, the thousands of people who would have to be of the same mind regarding any conspiracy to deceive the population becomes a very real and very doable proposition.
 
Getting a whole bunch of people to go along with something is child’s play.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 1:51 PM
Reply to  Howard

Howard, you misrepresent my reasons for doubting a conspiracy. I cited two factors. First, the number of people and second the fact that those people would have many conflicts of interest.
 
In your second paragraph you conflate collective madness with conspiracy as though they were the same: people holding the same opinion. But they are completely different. In a conspiracy people know they are engaging in deceptive behaviour; they know they are being dishonest; they know they are being manipulative. Whereas, in a case of collective madness people are being sincere; they believe what they say.
 
As to your claim that getting a whole bunch of people to go along with something being child’s play – are you speaking from experience?

Howard
Howard
Jul 6, 2020 3:08 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

On a very small scale, my experience with a Homeowners’ Association (HOA) showed how easily almost an entire community can be swayed.
 
While on the HOA Board, a situation developed wherein a homeowner with an almost painfully clear ulterior motive (having his condo, which he neglected for years, virtually rebuilt) was able to convince enough of the community that the Board and its property management company were guilty of such egregious wrongs against his condo that the Board – at the community’s expense! – ended up rebuilding one entire wing of a 12 unit building. It cost the community almost a third of its annual budget.
 
Child’s play.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 3:29 PM
Reply to  Howard

That’s not evidence from your experience. It is an anecdote.

Howard
Howard
Jul 7, 2020 3:03 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

You’re “nit picking” to strengthen your argument. You asked for evidence from my experience; I presented you with an experience which tended to underscore my argument. Perhaps you should re-read the last sentence of your reply to my argument, which will better frame my own reply.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 7, 2020 3:06 PM
Reply to  Howard

You are accusing me of “nit-picking” because I know the difference between evidence from experience and anecdotal evidence. When did accuracy become so unfashionable and unacceptable? I can remember when it wasn’t and I recognise that it now is, but I cannot pin point when the change happened.

Howard
Howard
Jul 7, 2020 3:27 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

You have it backwards. “Accuracy” – which is at best a studied illusion given the immense complexity of the universe – has become very very fashionable, to the extent that ONLY pinpoint accuracy is acceptable. That sure does limit what “evidence” one can offer.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 7, 2020 3:44 PM
Reply to  Howard

I cannot tell whether you do not understand the logical fallacy known as equivocation or whether you do and are using it deliberately.

Howard
Howard
Jul 7, 2020 4:12 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Is there anything you DON’T have a logical fallacy for? And has anyone ever mentioned to you that dismissing arguments as logical fallacies is merely a substitution for a rebuttal?
 
We are surrounded by constant demands for “sources” for everything we say. Unless someone else said it first, it carries no weight. That regimen serves well in a formal debate; but the comment section is not an Oxford debating society.
 
In the real world, one gleans a wealth of information during a lifetime – if one has actually sought out information. Simply because it’s inconvenient to source everything one says does not render what one says illogical or incorrect.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 7, 2020 4:28 PM
Reply to  Howard

What renders what one says illogical is making errors of logic. These errors are not mine. They have been well known for thousands of years.
 
What renders what one says incorrect is making factual or definitional errors.
 
As to knowing things: one only knows something that one can demonstrate.
 

Howard
Howard
Jul 8, 2020 3:08 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Thank you for clarifying. Now, if you would be so good, please demonstrate how you know – as you keep insisting – that the COVID crisis is a case of “collective madness.’
 
Thank you.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 8, 2020 3:50 PM
Reply to  Howard

I did not claim to know that the response to the coronavirus is a case of collective madness. As I made clear in my original comment, there are two possible explanations: either there is an ulterior motive or it is a case of collective madness. Given the absence of evidence to show that there is an ulterior motive, my judgement is that it is a case of collective madness.

Howard
Howard
Jul 9, 2020 2:59 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Conversely, there being no evidence to suggest collective madness, I presume there is an ulterior motive in play. Indeed, I think the most logical presumption is that there’s an ulterior motive – since that fits in with other things the ruling class has done.

Howard
Howard
Jul 7, 2020 3:11 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

One additional thing: by specifying something from someone’s experience, you are necessarily asking for an anecdote. It’s clear though that what you’re actually getting at is whether one’s “experience” is of a formal study.
 
So please refrain from insulting others by attempting to set them up for a “gotcha.” Off Guardian is not a You Tube channel, where respectful argumentation is eschewed.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 7, 2020 3:43 PM
Reply to  Howard

Howard, you seem overly defensive and insecure to be arguing on the Internet with strangers.

Howard
Howard
Jul 7, 2020 4:15 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

I would ask for an explanation; but doing so would doubtless constitute yet another logical fallacy. And I’m running out of space to store them all.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 3:22 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

there was a pre existing network conspiring to cover up ‘vaccine’ injuries and comission battery and poisoning of children. this network ofcourse included media actively taunting those “anti vaxxers” and seeking to recruit family members and the wider community to support the repeated battery and poisoning of children.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 3:30 PM
Reply to  Rachel

And your evidence to support this is?

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 4:28 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

your pretty obviously involved using the disinfo tactic known as playing dumb. there is vast numbers of agents posting in comments sections using such disinfo tactics. they may however post under multiple ids to give impression they represent a majority.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 4:41 PM
Reply to  Rachel

So rather than provide evidence to support your assertions, you accuse me, which is the well known logical fallacy called ad hominem.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 5:17 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

its not ad hom since it is your job rather than you i am pointing to. you have already seen much evidences i and others have posted yet use disinfo tactics like playing dumb, requiring impossible proofs. the main evidence is the disinfo tactics used, the same arguments popping up everywhere in comments. lack of a conspiracy in no way changes the fact of a crime. manslaughter is still a crime. the idea behind your argument is to dismiss the crime on grounds it would be impossible. it has been done and you are playing dumb to try and give impression it is somehow ok if people were acting in good faith.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 7, 2020 10:08 AM
Reply to  Rachel

You are now jumping to conclusions, pretending you can min read, and completely misrepresenting me. You apparently think you know things that you cannot demonstrate.

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 3:11 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Hope this helps
 
https://worldtruth.tv/50-reasons-not-to-vaccinate-your-children/
 
https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/government-experts-cover-up-vaccine-hazards/
 
Dr Lucija Tomljenovic writes:
 
“In 2010, the World Health Organisation (WHO) was accused of dramatizing worldwide influenza cases in order to result in much higher vaccine sales since many countries had signed contracts with a stipulation to automatically buy vaccines when the WHO gave the highest alert level.”
 
Worth bearing in mind that Anthony Fauci has made billions from Pharma and is controlling the covid narrative with Bill Gates- who just happens to be driving the narrative and instructing leaders to tell everyone they need a vaccine he is working on. He is also controlling the WHO by being it’s largest financial contributor.
 
https://www.wakingtimes.com/2012/11/14/time-for-a-wake-up-call-the-vaccination-hoax-debunked/

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 8, 2020 11:59 AM
Reply to  jura calling

I have no idea why/how you think this would help me.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 8, 2020 7:47 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

You were in a debate’ with someone else that was going around in circles. It was for both parties.Not just you.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 9, 2020 10:15 AM
Reply to  Jura Calling

You replied to me, not someone else.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 9, 2020 8:52 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

I’ll say three hail Marys.Lets’ hope God understands my terrible error.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
Jul 6, 2020 1:33 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

I would suggest that the article gives credence to your ulterior motive suggestion.
Look how many of the prominent figures on the SAGE team are associated with organisations that are funded by Gates, Wellcome being an obvious case. How else can you possibly defend Devi Sridhar’s weird stranglehold over Scotland?

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 1:40 PM
Reply to  Cheezilla

Your suggestion that people on SAGE having connections to Gates supports the ulterior motive explanation has the problem that SAGE did not recommend the lockdown.
 
I have no idea what you mean about my defending Sridhar.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
Jul 6, 2020 1:52 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Initially reluctant maybe but there was a sudden seachange and ever since, SAGE “experts” have constantly repeated the 2nd wave mantra, which has served to prolong the lockdown. Their recommendations have become more draconian and more psyop-like as the weeks have passed.
 
Re Sridhar, I did not mean to imply that you’d defended her. Sorry.
I should have said “How can one possibly ….. etc”. Unfortunately, no-one normal uses “one” nowadays, though it was certainly better for clarity.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 2:03 PM
Reply to  Cheezilla

Re: your first paragraph. Have you read the SAGE minutes?
 
Boris Johnson started to roll out the lockdown measures on 20 March and did so completely on 23 March. Parliament, without scrutiny or division passed the Coronavirus Act 2020 on 25 March. At no time prior to this had SAGE recommend the lockdown. The decision to introduce the lockdown measures was not based on “the science”. It was a wholly political decision.
 
Re: use of the word “one” – thanks, I had not realised that I am no longer normal; although I was well aware that I am not a follower of contemporary fashions.

JohnB
JohnB
Jul 6, 2020 3:18 PM
Reply to  Cheezilla

One certainly does ! 🙂

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 10:26 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

The SAGE paper was official by March 22nd. The UK slice of the pandemic was all of a week old.But it’s authors were seemingly well prepared by countries who had been infected longer.   Recommendations were made by behavioural psychologists. They were commissioned by the Government. Bear in mind that the government were ready to pay big money for media outlets to stick to fear -mongering rather than facts, and to pay doctors to pretend a lot more people were dying from covid than actually were.The Government were paying doctors to lie to uphold it’s agenda, and the media to do the same.And then psychologists.The conclusions reached all matched those insisted were needed by Gates the vaccine man.   To enforce the the most efficient training of the public, the best parts were cherry – picked from elsewhere with the intention of scaring the public( for their own good naturally)… Read more »

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 8, 2020 12:05 PM
Reply to  jura calling

SAGE did not advise the lockdown measures. The sub-committee you are referring offered the government advice on how to ensure compliance with the government’s measures.

Jura Calling
Jura Calling
Jul 8, 2020 7:34 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Ahhh right, it was a ‘sub committee then’ . Who invited them to throw their hat in the ring- the government or the behaviourists charged with ensuring we learned obedience and fear..

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
Jul 6, 2020 2:00 PM
Reply to  Cheezilla
ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 6, 2020 2:28 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

Even in my lowly job you can see the groupthink. A key feature of groupthink is that the participants don’t necessarily have to agree with it, they just go along with it anyway because they’d rather pretend than risk ostracisation, or worse losing their livelihood. If I, and friends are witnessing this in ordinary jobs with no real risk, then it’s likely that the rest of the country is at it as well.
If we are at it, can’t you see then that more prestigious jobs would be even worse for it? Politicians, higher ranking business persons and leaders of institutions, can’t exactly speak their mind if it’s anything other than PC. You don’t get to the dizzy heights of any hierarchy, unless you play the game. By and large.
This is how ‘everyone can be in on it’.

ZenPriest
ZenPriest
Jul 6, 2020 2:30 PM
Reply to  ZenPriest

In case you didn’t get it, not everyone is ‘in on it’ – it just seems that way because people go along with it out of fear.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Jul 6, 2020 2:58 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

@Steve Hayes: “The ulterior motive explanation would necessarily involve a great many people acting collectively to exploit the pandemic by claiming to be concerned to protect public health whilst secretly wishing to achieve a completely different (set of) objective(s).”
 
Precisely what was predicted by Hilaire Belloc in “The Servile State”, 1911. By that time a class of Anglo Zio Capitalists had already taken over both parties in Parliament, and Belloc went on to argue that they would split up families and control people by introducing Health and Safety Legislation. See Mavis Ward’s biography of GKC, especially the chapter called The Eye Witness.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 3:01 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

the whole thing was carefully scripted by psychologists. specific langage carefully designed to instill terror. recycled stories used in different countries. all sorts of evidence of deliberate pre meditated genocide and crimes against humanity

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 3:33 PM
Reply to  Rachel

Perhaps you would care to present the evidence?

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 4:47 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

they used the term deadly virus similar to the satanic conditioning drs use telling people they have an incurable disease, only a month to live etc. https://youtu.be/SXQoCvwjiTY

kevin
kevin
Jul 6, 2020 3:17 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

It is not true that the ulterior motive explanation would require everyone to be knowingly participating. It is possible to have a small number of powerful individuals knowingly participating in the plan and then compartmentalization and groupthink accounting for the participation of the rest. Only a few dozen people knew that the purpose of the Manhattan Project was to build an atomic weapon while over 100,000 worked on the project unaware of the purpose of their work.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 3:28 PM
Reply to  kevin

You do realise this is a global phenomenon? It is not a secret war time policy of a single government. It involves governments across the world. It involves supra-national organisations. It involves health professionals, scientists and other experts. It involves opposition as well as governing parties. It involves the corporate media. The numbers would be massive and all these differing social actors have, not just different but conflicting interests.
 
Nevertheless, I am, as I indicated, I am open to considering any evidence for the ulterior motive explanation.

kevin
kevin
Jul 6, 2020 4:38 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

In the particular case of a global “health emergency,” if you control the WHO you can exercise control over the entire world. All of the government officials take their directives from the WHO and the health professionals in every country fall into line, no different from taking orders in a military hierarchy. The media, playing a crucial role, are controlled by the same network which controls the WHO. Bill Gates is part of this network.
https://cfrmedia.com

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  kevin

The World Health Organisation were behind the curve on this at every step of the way, constantly having to revise its advice to bring it in to line with the lockdown measures governments had introduced. The chronology simply does not support your claim.

kevin
kevin
Jul 6, 2020 5:49 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

You have the order backwards. On March 11 the WHO declared COVID-19 a pandemic. It was in the days following this declaration that world governments introduced lockdown measures. Globally, only some parts of China and Italy went into lockdown prior to the WHO declaration.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 7:16 PM
Reply to  kevin

they were all over the comments on youtube demanding who call it a pandemic. they have had these people posting, complaining and down voting real people etc. the when the who declares the pandemic they start demanding lockdowns be stricter, longer etc. this is done to give the impression who should have declared it sooner, whos declarations matter, the public support lockdowns etc.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 7, 2020 11:22 AM
Reply to  kevin

World Health Organisation advice for a pandemic, not only did not advise lockdowns, it specifically advised against such measures.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 6:10 PM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

the cult call members steak holders. your argument is a nonsence. the who is a pharma front group. they all work together but the who is cited since it has an official sounding title. sounds better than citing gsk or merck. same like citing oxford sounds better than citing gsk or monsanto.

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 5:57 AM
Reply to  Rachel

steak holders
 
but what about the pork-chop holders? and the lamb-cutlet holders? why won’t anybody think about them???

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 6, 2020 12:38 PM

Quote from Daniel Andrews the Premier of Victoria at his press conference:
“we will not be returning to normal – because there will be no vaccine in the weeks ahead, some would argue, even in the months ahead, and unless, and until that vaccine is developed and then Administered To Every Single Victorian, we will have to live with, and embrace a Covid normal”.
Straight from the horses mouth. There is also talk of a Covi Pass being rolled out in 15 countries. No pass means no work, no cafes or pubs or anything. How much more evidence is needed before people wake the hell up.
Please remind me again that the actual mortality rate from the virus is? Around 0.3% and that the vast majority who have died have been elderly or those with underlying medical conditions.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 1:04 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

It will be enforced, as you say, through “voluntary compliance” – you just won’t be able to work, travel or shop without accepting the “entirely voluntary” vaccine.
 
Bill Gates is already saying it won’t be mandatory – and if the Great Billy Goat says it….

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 6, 2020 1:35 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Yep… it’ll be entirely your choice M. Did you see all this coming 5 years ago? We’re in a right pickle mate.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 2:11 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Totally blindsided by the timing and magnitude. With hindsight… that fluffy comforter… I should have combined in my mind the elements of financial crisis, climate change and Agenda 21.   I failed to put 2+2 together on round two of the financial crisis. Knew it was due. Knew the bill could not be paid this time. Failed to conclude that it meant the financial system would have to be shut down. It nearly happened in 2008 in the West. It did happen in the emerging markets. Experienced it first hand.Should definitely have seen that.   Failed to see that Climate Change had a big old expiry date on it as a strategy for imposing change. The camp, over-the-top nature of Extinction Rebellion was the swan song. Greta Thunberg was there to keep us looking at Climate Change (as well as the rolling out of Naomi Seibt, the anti-Greta) while they… Read more »

JohnB
JohnB
Jul 6, 2020 3:25 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

eff all happened on Y2K because a lot of work was done shifting computerised year data from 2 to 4 digits.
There were a couple of organisations that ground to a halt anyway. Italy/Germany ring a vague bell.

Howard
Howard
Jul 6, 2020 1:17 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

This is precisely the kind of thing which, to me, adds credence to the view (held by Dane Wigington of geoengineeringwatch.org et al) that we cannot return to the old paradigm of normalcy because we have wrought so much damage to the natural world that the old endless growth insanity is gone and will never return. As Mr Wigington stresses, this old paradigm “was never sustainable.”
 
We’re at the end of Earth’s carrying capacity for the billions of humans the industrial revolution has given rise to. So the ruling classes had to come up with something to “compel” them to cast humanity adrift while they live out their days in unbridled luxury. What else can a good ruler do?

Reg
Reg
Jul 6, 2020 1:49 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

People will refuse to wake up, Gezzah. They will fight tooth and claw against it. They love their tranquilised state.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 6, 2020 2:18 PM
Reply to  Reg

The majority, yes, they just can’t see what’s coming, and they can’t let go of their MSM comfort blanket, but I do think more are waking up to this panicdemic. Call it a gut feeling.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 6, 2020 12:25 PM

Group “think” is a misnomer, as groups never think: group think is the process of neutering your thinking ability and being happy about it. It is a process of accepting that you are tired of fighting to be you, so you will relax and be someone else, taking on their thought, their opinions.

Why do this? Hey, why not, the guys down the pub will think I’m cool because I am concerned about covid. Shite attracts shite.

George Mc
George Mc
Jul 6, 2020 12:25 PM

I was following the Off-G Twitter feed and just had to copy paste this exchange in. It’s comedy genius:   Ann Ross: “.. my heart goes out to those health care workers and their families who died of Covid to save the rest of us… disgusting lack of respect”   chris brogan: “I’m keeping my wife safe. She has been locked in the attic since March. She did not like it at first but 4 months on she is getting used to it. She says that everyone should be made stay in to keep them safe forever. Actually she didn’t say that because she is very quiet but safe”   Brian Reese: “This isnt funny.”   chris brogan: “That’s what she said at first but now she has come to love her isolation. You will too Brian.”   B&M4Life: “That’s good. Am glad. She might starts to show signs of depression… Read more »

Superbuggg
Superbuggg
Jul 6, 2020 12:11 PM

Everyone should know Robert Stuart’s exemplary work on the bog BBC ‘saving Syria’s Children’ https://21stcenturywire.com/2019/06/07/syria-and-war-propaganda-robert-stuart-vs-the-bbc/
 
I know one of the BBC Panorama video editors who worked on it with Ian Pannell personally. I was able to convince my friend using Robert Stuart’s videos that the whole thang was staged, however a month later he had flipped back to group-think saying, verbatim “…if I mentioned that at work, it would be more than my job’s worth – and I’ve got kids”! Hmnnn…
 
Ian Pannell also covered the bogus ‘Kentucky firing range’ footage that was recycled as ‘Turkish attack in northern Syria against Kurdish civilians’ by ABC.
 
Conclusion: spooks are hired as news anchors – Pannell is likely MI6!

JohnB
JohnB
Jul 6, 2020 3:28 PM
Reply to  Superbuggg

Worth reading Jon Rappoport on news anchors.

Superbuggg
Superbuggg
Jul 6, 2020 6:10 PM
Reply to  JohnB

Thanks… ‘will do!

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 11:09 PM
Reply to  JohnB

John Rappaport can’t be faulted for his drive and passion. Unfortunately, he seldom provides a source for his bigger bullet points.

hope
hope
Jul 6, 2020 11:44 AM

About my experience of trying to go to a passport office at the other end of town with public transports without wearing a mask: I think it is RobG who pointed out that for example the new lockdown in Leicester or wherever concerned mainly working class areas. He may have been right that you are now treated differently according as to whether or not you are willing to pay for the privilege of not following the measures. I sincerely was surprised to find you could buy this privilege, it was extremely expensive, but given I did not wish to wear the mask, I had to at each stage pay for the privilege. I was each taken away from the crowd, made to sit down in near isolated surroundings, escorted, with people fawning offering you coffees and biscuits, taking up to the door of the office, and then escorted by someone… Read more »

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 12:53 PM
Reply to  hope

I’ve written about this as the formalization of corruption: Once there was a rule and a procedure, which you could circumvent if you worked for a particular department or knew certain people. An example, from 30 years ago, would have been acquiring a passport in a hurry. It could be done if you had the connections.
 
This has been formalized into a two-tier system by charging for the fast track. It’s now considered normal for government departments to charge a fee in order to jump the queue (circumvent the rules). It’s justified as providing a service but it works exactly the same way as corruption. Even the fee goes into private pockets nowadays.

JohnB
JohnB
Jul 6, 2020 1:15 PM
Reply to  hope

It would be useful to know where this was, Hope.

hope
hope
Jul 6, 2020 2:09 PM
Reply to  JohnB

This was in France. Basically, I said I did not want to wear a mask at the ticket desk. I was then told that it was fine, they now offered other means of transport which would not require a mask. Then at the office, which has nothing to do with the transport people, I was first told I could not get in without a mask, and I said I did not wish to wear a mask but had to get in, and they said well then they had a different service and it cost a certain amount… All in all I could have gone to London and back with what I paid. Its all been rather extraordinary.
So bizarre.

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Jul 7, 2020 6:51 AM
Reply to  hope

@Hope: “This was in France.”
 
The AZC is a global regime that controls all those neo-Liberal, freedom-loving anti-Russian, anti-Chinese, anti-Muslim “Western” democracies which are currently publishing awfully high death rates from a mysterious Killer Virus. This new “existential threat”, which I name Con19, is distantly related to an ordinary flu virus known as Covid19 but closely related to the “existential threat” of 2001 and its ensuing Bush War on Terror, which I call Con911.

hope
hope
Jul 6, 2020 2:21 PM
Reply to  JohnB

I should add though that all together it cost less than what the fine would have been had I said I refuse to wear the mask, but dont want to pay for extra services…

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Jul 7, 2020 6:31 AM
Reply to  hope

@Hope: “privilege is for sale”.   Everything_ is for sale in Anglo Zio Capitalistan. Read Hilaire Belloc’s book, The Servile State, pub 1911. Belloc was a Member of Parliament until he discovered that the Liberal Party was merely the second front for an Anglo Zio Capitalist regime that ruled from a financial square mile in The City of London, and from nepotist bloodlines scattered around the country in The Stately Homes of England.   The coming of the Labour Party and the Attlee Revolution changed things for a while, but now The Empire has struck back, with New Liebour replacing the Liberal Party as AZC second front in Parliament, former PM TB.Liar securely installed as a director in House of Rothschild, and Britain well on its way to consolidating The Servile State of 1911 — Great Britain, the servile AZC state which declared war on Germany in 1914, and whose… Read more »

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 11:31 AM

social closening is in. the terrorist ideology of lockdowns is out. the group think can act as a tsunami crushing the losers terrorist ideology. it is of the heart rather than the mind. common sense we know it is time to come together and heal from the terrorist attack. we lock the door and throw away the key so that never again may the terrorist ideology infect us.

77 Brigade - Retired
77 Brigade - Retired
Jul 6, 2020 12:50 PM
Reply to  Rachel

Group Think which uses its many “assets” like BLM which is supported by millions of “useful” idiots including potatoe-head “sportsman” and the media – all choreographed by the world elite via their dance instructor in chief – the BBC.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 6, 2020 10:46 AM

Your list of groupthink behaviours Kevin immediately reminded me of those who have drowned themselves in Identity Politics, along with all those who have fully succumbed to the Covid19 panicdemic propaganda. Here in Melbourne, 3000 residents of 9 Housing Estates are now under complete house arrest, with up to 500 police stationed on all levels of the properties to ensure no one leaves their Flat. No one is allowed outside their door for Any reason, including to get food or medicine. These lockdowns will last anywhere from between 5 and 14 days. Any resident who refuses testing for the virus will be detained for a further 14 days. How have the majority in Melbourne reacted to this? The majority seem to fully support these draconian Stasi like measures. Groupthink on steroids. It’s now one week since I started selling the mag again, and while out selling, conducted a small experiment… Read more »

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 11:54 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

the vaccine cults ideology is very much a multi level terrorist recruitment ponzi scheme. they take people hostage and threaten death if there is not cooperation. they target travel and social venues very much like other terrorist attacks on bali, planes, trains, concerts, sea side resorts etc. same signature except this time they are out in the open admitting who is involved.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 6, 2020 12:47 PM
Reply to  Rachel

Agree Rachel. At those Housing Estates under house arrest, they are playing announcements over the loudspeakers saying: ‘the sooner you are all tested, the sooner this situation will be over for you’. I listened to it just then, it was posted on one of the FB groups I’m on.
Melbourne is obviously one of the testing grounds, like Leicester is also.

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 1:14 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

they should be jailed for such behaviour. indeed they will be. it is crimes against humanity and is already being brought to trial. the front line will be charged. following orders is no defence. best they collect evidence on those ‘above’. submitting to testing could be considered aiding and abetting the terror network to generate case reports which aid in their terrorist recruitment activities.

timfrom
timfrom
Jul 6, 2020 1:25 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Smashing the power of the MSM is now an existential priority. Without it, the ruling class will be powerless!

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 1:47 PM
Reply to  timfrom

maybe call it the alien media or the terror training manual? it is not mainstream tho. nobody watches apart from sub human aliens. vermin, creeps and bimbos.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 7, 2020 4:04 AM
Reply to  timfrom

I just boycott the filth fullstop. Virtually all of them are ethically and morally bankrupt.
Avoid fake news. It’s good for your mental health!

Dr NG Maroudas
Dr NG Maroudas
Jul 7, 2020 6:57 AM
Reply to  timfrom

@Timfrom: “Smashing the power of the MSM is now an existential priority. Without it, the ruling class will be powerless”.
 
I think the public’s priorities are other way round: “Smashing the power of the ruling class is now an existential priority. Without it, the MSM will be powerless!

bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 10:31 AM

“So we have to implement a grassroots movement, nationally and internationally, to CONFRONT THIS DIABOLICAL PROJECT and to restore our national economies, our national institutions. And, to DENY THE LEGITIMACY OF THE DEBT PROJECT. And to investigate the elements of corruption which have led to this diabolical adventure, which is affecting humanity in its entirety.

This is a war against humanity, implemented through complex economic instruments.”

 
 
https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-the-2020-economic-crisis-global-poverty-unemployment-and-despair/5717157

elsewhere
elsewhere
Jul 6, 2020 10:48 AM
Reply to  bob

Unfortunately, as Chossudovsky also points out, where do we get the money to start our grass-roots movement?: “We can’t ask the Rockefellers, “Please lend us the money” to pay for our expenses, we have to do that on our own. And that’s why all these NGOs, which are funded by corporate foundations, some of the things they do are fine, but they cannot wage a campaign against those who are sponsoring them, that’s an impossibility.”

 

bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 12:05 PM
Reply to  elsewhere

agree – as i’ve said repeatedly on here – we are on our own

Grafter
Grafter
Jul 6, 2020 10:14 AM

The old standard of reply to someone stating “factual reporting” still applies – “Is that the truth or did you hear it on the BBC ?” Now more than ever their ongoing coverage of Covid-19 underlines their true purpose of disseminating lies, half truths and news by omission . I can’t for life of me understand why people pay these criminals a “licence fee” and yet complain about their malign propaganda .

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
Jul 6, 2020 2:03 PM
Reply to  Grafter

Interesting how many people have suddenly cancelled their tv licence over this last few weeks.

Grafter
Grafter
Jul 6, 2020 5:22 PM
Reply to  Cheezilla

Evidence ?

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
Jul 6, 2020 9:04 PM
Reply to  Grafter

Look at the comments on Lockdown Sceptics! Leaving the beeb in droves.

Francis Lee
Francis Lee
Jul 6, 2020 10:10 AM

Groupthink as suggested by William Whyte, author of the ‘Organization Man’, and developed by psychologist Irving Janis, describes a process where a group with similar backgrounds and largely insulated from outside opinion and makes its decisions without critically testing, analysing and evaluating ideas. It involves collective rationalisations, conviction about the inherent morality of its views, and illusions about unanimity and invulnerability. The group holds stereotyped views of outsiders, and no toleration of dissent. (Satyajit Das – Extreme Money) This is precisely the mentality to be found in the MSM and the three departments of state in the UK, the Foreign Office, the Home Office and the Treasury. A number of events took place in the UK during the context of the Libyan colonial adventure when the US, Britain and France led the charge against Gaddafi and his decision to trade income from Libya’s oil reserves into Gold. In the aftermath… Read more »

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 11:20 AM
Reply to  Francis Lee

Good points. The group think now extends beyond and outsize the organization… thanks to censorship and the filter bubble.   Governments seem determined to censor all discussion or information except for the official narrative. Yet, at the same time, most intelligence information, 80% or more, comes from open sources, … newsletters, newspapers, commercial data bases, public announcements (Strategic Intelligence: Theory and Application, edited by Douglas H. Dearth, R. Thomas Goodden).    As Event Co-vid has exposed, the UK government is using Behavioural Insight Teams to directly “nudge” public behaviour which will then feed back into one insane loop of self-confirming or self-defeating information.   In the world of managed outcomes, where governments only hear what they want to hear, and only allow discussion that supports predetermined outcomes — and then monitor those outcomes and those censored discussions for feedback via intelligence and behavioural units — I suspect group think is… Read more »

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 12:34 PM
Reply to  Francis Lee

the concert of a vegan who licked a donut in the shop and said i hate america, i hate americans. https://youtu.be/wv3PhFDZGBw

martin
martin
Jul 6, 2020 10:01 AM

Pretty much any organisation has an ISO Quality Management System running in the background. This sounds like no more than checking widgets but actually a QMS sets out just about everything the org does. It has the express purpose of taking responsibility away from individuals and giving it to the group. The QMS formalises group-think both legally and subjectively. It makes you personally liable (duty of care, malpractice) if you don’t follow it, and if you are not sure what it is then you ‘cover your arse’ the best way you can. The effect is to pass real decision making to a very narrow group at the top. Your QMS will follow a chain out into the wider world eg to the WHO. In times gone by department heads, Ministers etc had to exercise personal judgement. Systems took over. This goes hand in hand with communications technology. How the narrow top group… Read more »

Einstein
Einstein
Jul 6, 2020 12:37 PM
Reply to  martin

This is why medicine is no longer an empirical science in Britain, Ireland, Newzealand, etc., etc. Groupthink, run by mangers and, ultimately, Matt Hancock(!) determines a patient’s treatment.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 6, 2020 9:35 AM
snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 6, 2020 11:22 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. The Party intellectual knows in which direction his memories must be altered; he therefore knows that he is playing tricks with reality; but by the exercise of doublethink he also satisfies himself that reality is not violated. The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt. Doublethink lies at the very heart of Ingsoc, since the essential act of the Party is to use conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty. To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it… Read more »

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 6, 2020 12:15 PM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

Amazing that 1984 was required reading in grammar school.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
Jul 6, 2020 2:06 PM
Reply to  axisofoil

It was during the cold war. At the time, your teachers thought they were bashing the communists.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 6, 2020 5:49 PM
Reply to  Cheezilla

Animal Farm was another Orwell look at human nature, projected onto the ‘communist’ meme.

Nemo Nomark
Nemo Nomark
Jul 6, 2020 5:19 PM
Reply to  axisofoil

Brave New World was also on my curriculum. Strangely though, my uncle’s name was John Savage! I could see they were attempting to groom us into joining their class war because it was implied that we were, of course, the Alphas. As a bright boy from a poor family, I was already aware of class prejudice.   The most vivid example of grooming psychology was in the first few days of being at the five hundred years old grammar school, when the form master gave us a speech, telling us that we were “special”, the cream of our cohort, not like our old friends in primary school but the potential leaders of society. He then instructed us to forget about our old friends, and family if need be, because we were destined to be the great men of tomorrow. I was immediately suspicious, knowing that flattery is deception.   Then… Read more »

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 2:56 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

I’m pretty sure that my teachers didn’t understand it, although I did. It seemed like a documentary to me, even before 1991, when it turned out that Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia.

Yarkob
Yarkob
Jul 7, 2020 9:25 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

i had great expectations and julius fucking caesar. would have loved 1984! i found shakespeare a bit irrelevant back then. not sure i’ve moved on much!

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 7, 2020 11:13 PM
Reply to  axisofoil

More interesting is that it’s the most banned book in the world along with Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World. Read them as two parts of one message and you’ll understand what the world is doing right now.It’s a shame the books didn’t have lots of nice pictures in for the sheep.

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 8, 2020 12:49 AM
Reply to  jura calling

I have 22 copies of 1984 and 5 of brave new world……yard sales over the years. Thinking ahead.

jura calling
jura calling
Jul 8, 2020 3:39 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

Good stuff. Now all you need to do is develop a way of mailing it into peoples’ heads..;)

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 6, 2020 12:18 PM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

BTW Thanks for that link.

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 2:35 AM
Reply to  axisofoil
axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 7, 2020 7:26 AM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

Thanks,
That link was also excellent. I am a big Orwell fan. I actually think he was a bit of a prophet.

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 7, 2020 8:45 AM
Reply to  axisofoil

I’ve been amusing myself by reading Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago, which was only published in English in the 1970s, long after Orwell’s death. It is absolutely astonishing how much he understood about the Stalin regime, from the outside.
 
leaving aside, of course, the subject of how the repressive machinery of Western Liberal Democracy(TM) has vastly surpassed anything that Stalin and Hitler could have even dimly hoped for. the current situation being a paramount example — nothing remotely comparable was ever attempted by either of those regimes.
 
one wonders if Solzhenitsyn ever read 1984, and if so, what he thought of it.
 
actually, through the magic of the telescreens, one doesn’t have to wonder:
 
READING FICTION TO UNDERSTAND THE SOVIET UNION: SOVIET DISSIDENTS ON ORWELL’S 1984

axisofoil
axisofoil
Jul 8, 2020 12:53 AM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

The Gulag Archipelago, is on my list to read. IBM and the Holocaust is another one I couldn’t put down.

Yarkob
Yarkob
Jul 7, 2020 9:21 AM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

let’s turn that on it’s head:
 
“the mark of a first rate intellect is the ability to hold two opposing thoughts in o es head and still retain the ability to function”
F. Scott Fitzgerald
 
people are told one thing, yet deep down they know it to be untrue, yet it’s repeated at them like a mantra, NLP-style. it’s the people that can cope with this, and still research, and rebut it, that will survive this bullshit.
 
also, i’m not so sure about Anna Brees. she has odd contradictions in her shows, like accepting cv is not what we’re told, then tutting about people not social distancing; telling us how important independent media is (true) while criticising those who wish to remain anonymous on twitter

bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 9:29 AM

OG – why, for the second time in a couple of weeks, has my post been labelled ‘awaiting approval’???

bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 9:36 AM
Reply to  bob

in the meantime, everyone should have a look at this:
 
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809
 
“if we do a PCR corona test on an immune person, it is not a virus that is detected, but a small shattered part of the viral genome. The test comes back positive for as long as there are tiny shattered parts of the virus left. “
 

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 11:49 AM
Reply to  bob

Beda Stadler’s article is a humdinger.   “So if we do a PCR corona test on an immune person, it is not a virus that is detected, but a small shattered part of the viral genome. The test comes back positive for as long as there are tiny shattered parts of the virus left. Correct: Even if the infectious viri are long dead, a corona test can come back positive, because the PCR method multiplies even a tiny fraction of the viral genetic material enough [to be detected]… It is likely that a large number of the daily reported infection numbers are purely due to viral debris.   “… Let’s call them “immunity deniers” just for fun. This new breed of deniers had to observe that the majority of people who tested positive for this virus, i.e. the virus was present in their throats, did not get sick. The term… Read more »

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 2:04 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

i dont thik silent carriers came out of a hat but was related to the term sleeper cell and carefully developed by psychologists.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 6, 2020 9:46 AM
Reply to  bob

The system automatically holds back any comment with more than 3 hyperlinks

bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 10:32 AM

ta :0)

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 6, 2020 11:26 AM

it’s also holding back comments with no hyperlinks, so it appears that there’s a length threshold which triggers moderation.
 
and don’t you mean to say, “three or more hyperlinks”?

johny conspiranoid
johny conspiranoid
Jul 6, 2020 8:54 AM

Could scientific knowledge of group think be used in a conspiracy to get a group to think in a certain way?
Groupthink probably worked out fine for hunter gatherers thanks to the daily reality check from eating/not eating. In the modern world there is larger time lag before reality arrives.

bob
bob
Jul 6, 2020 8:46 AM

here’s the link to the changes in the nhs   https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8353999/amp/NHS-wont-service-people-previously-health-chief-says.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true       Albert Trigg @alberttrigg   #COVID19 is the vehicle being used to impose the #4IR & #GreatReset   In one foul swoop the #NHS has been stripped back and kept from the people   Unusable to the point were people will have to access “private solutions” or suffer or die     Events for me over the last week or two confirm the nhs is not fit for purpose – what are the 1.5 million people employed by the nhs and paid for by us DOING? Where are they? The service will not be resumed for anything other than ’emergencies’ defined by them not us. Why aren’t people asking these questions? The criminal cabal is getting away with murder. Simon Dolan appears to be the only one prepared to stand up to the regime – he awaits… Read more »

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 6, 2020 9:53 AM
Reply to  bob

The only option left as the hard BS is pushed through and the quick and dirty deals signed with the US pharma, med ins. Hedge funds etc is to hit the streets in a GENERAL STRIKE.

OUR NHS.
OUR SCHOOLS.
OUR HOMES.
OUR UTILITIES.
OUR FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT.
OUR EUROPE AND EU.

The riots are being primed. The TSG are agitating. The IDF trained forces are ready with their lynching technique of knee on neck.

If people can not see, refuse to see, how the pandemic is being used here to cover the long planned hard BS and the rewards of it for the few – they will never be able to complain they didn’t know!

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 6, 2020 11:57 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

Fully agree with your comment Dun, including the need for a General Strike or a mass civil disobedience campaign.
The 0.01% including Big Pharma are licking their lips at the prospects of $$$ to be made.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 8, 2020 1:25 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

It will happen – because the mask has slipped and the mesmerism of the last 10 years is dissipating as the populace sees the scoundrels for the scammers they are!

Btw – are YOU receiving email notifications of replies to your comments?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 8, 2020 3:04 AM
Reply to  Dungroanin

No, some replies I havn’t gotten notifications for, but they seem to be a small minority. Have discovered that when someone else has replied to my comment.
I’m still clinging to a sliver of hope that enough people will wake up and start pushing back.

Steve Hayes
Steve Hayes
Jul 6, 2020 12:46 PM
Reply to  Dungroanin

IDF trained forces are ready with their lynching technique of knee on neck.

As I understand it, the Labour Party (and others) judge that assertion to be antisemitic.

Dungroanin
Dungroanin
Jul 8, 2020 1:22 AM
Reply to  Steve Hayes

As you may know by now Steve

I don’t give a damn about what any idiot erroneously thinks about judaeophobia.

Which unfortunately does exist. I have no truck with any such beliefs and will fight ANYONE attempting to push it around my hearing. As I will anyone who supports and spouts patriotic nationalism, fascistic, racist and anti equality bullshit – on principle. As I also refute Judeonationalism and its supporters.

Fuck them all!

Is that clear enough for you Steve?

Btw – have you answered my question as to whether you are receiving notification emails of replies to your comments here?

lundiel
lundiel
Jul 6, 2020 8:26 AM

Excellent article. Unfortunately, inverted group-think is very prevalent here since the site became a melting pot for virus deniers and odd-bods . I think we all agree the pandemic reaction was driven by panic, there again, can we? Some here think the reaction was a deliberate act to trigger a global reset…that’s “really out there” group-think. However, I’m more concerned with the total lack of any fact driven research into the plight of the vulnerable by the keyboard warriors assiduously reporting “facts” which are actually the opinions of some maverick scientist or other (since when did we promote scientists above politicians? Especially as they have equally conflicting opinions but don’t consider the political/economic fallout in their studies). They all love death-rate stats but shy away from confronting actual deaths. They also love to say how “Bill Gates is a eugenicist” but never suggest taking any actions themselves that might protect… Read more »

George Mc
George Mc
Jul 6, 2020 9:20 AM
Reply to  lundiel

Oh where to begin?   “inverted group-think” is just group think.   “virus deniers” – begging the question   I think we all agree the pandemic reaction was driven by panic, there again, can we?   Not necessarily.    Some here think the reaction was a deliberate act to trigger a global reset…that’s “really out there” group-think.   It sounds like “group think” is how you define any thought you don’t agree with.   …. the total lack of any fact driven research into the plight of the vulnerable….   Yes let’s get those “vulnerable” in to tug the heartstrings.   ….by the keyboard warriors assiduously reporting “facts” which are actually the opinions of some maverick scientist or other….   Aren’t mavericks the opposite of group thinkers?   (since when did we promote scientists above politicians?…   Since forever.   Especially as they have equally conflicting opinions but don’t consider the political/economic fallout in… Read more »

lundiel
lundiel
Jul 6, 2020 9:26 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Oh George I’ve seriously ruffled your sharp, brittle feathers and your response is like an angry sneer, not attractive.

George Mc
George Mc
Jul 6, 2020 10:38 AM
Reply to  lundiel

I’d say it was a long and detailed “sneer”. But if it’s “attractiveness” you want then I can post some nice pictures of little kittens.

snuffleupagus
snuffleupagus
Jul 6, 2020 11:35 AM
Reply to  George Mc

comment image

Gwyn
Gwyn
Jul 6, 2020 4:10 PM
Reply to  snuffleupagus

Okay, that cat’s got a mask…but it clearly isn’t social-distancing. Doesn’t it watch the BBC or read the papers?!?

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 6, 2020 11:31 AM
Reply to  lundiel

Perhaps you should check out the World Economic Forum website lundiel which has a Covid19 Response Model which has so many layers and subsections, it would’ve taken them years to plan out; not months. They also have a page on their site called The Great Reset. Perhaps also, you could investigate the ever increasing number of people who have killed themselves because of what has been perpetrated on humanity by these complete psychopaths. Perhaps you could ask the many thousands of small business owners who have lost everything because of what has been done to the economy, or the tens of millions of ordinary people who have lost their jobs, many of whom will almost certainly end up under a bridge or in a park. I hear Moon Of Alabama and the WSWS are such melting pots of diverse opinions on the virus, and doing their utmost to faithfully parrot… Read more »

Yarkob
Yarkob
Jul 7, 2020 1:20 PM
Reply to  lundiel

question to lundiel: why are you here if it’s an “echo-chamber”? doesn’t that just mean a group of people with similar views that don’t accord with mine? why use a pejorative term? isn’t everywhere people gather with similar views the same? you sound like someone whose job it is to provide discord and pointless argument on sites such as this. if it’s so bad, leave. not that hard

Rachel
Rachel
Jul 6, 2020 10:27 AM
Reply to  lundiel

they do need protecting. protecting from dangerous drugs, poor nutrition, being kept indoors, social isolation, terror etc. i remember dr morse saying sun was so important people should crawl out to get some if necessary.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 6, 2020 10:55 AM
Reply to  lundiel

I suspect what you miss, Iundiel, is the red-vs-blue, left-vs-right pantomime. You mistake the absence of pantomime for uniformity of thought.   I see shades of every political hue behind the comments here – but most posters are practised or mature enough not to let their own political allegiances interfere with the pursuit and sharing of information.   Unlike your good self they appear to withhold judgement. The result is that people of differing political views can have a robust discussion on almost any topic without name-calling or the need to moderate comments because of the level of vitriol. This is quite unlike the world outside: see every single Corporatist Media site.   It tells me nothing if people wear their politics on their sleeve: certainly not that they’ve thought about a topic before firing off a post. Nor would anyone, because not even I, find my politics interesting.  … Read more »

lundiel
lundiel
Jul 6, 2020 11:43 AM
Reply to  Moneycircus

No chance of a lack of badge wearing from you with your daily links to UK Column.

Einstein
Einstein
Jul 6, 2020 12:58 PM