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Assange Indictment: Old Wine in Older Bottles

Binoy Kampmark

Demonstrators supporting Julian Assange hold banners outside Westminster Magistrates Court in London, Thursday, Jan. 23, 2020. (AP Photo/Kirsty Wigglesworth)

The book of hours on Julian Assange is now being written. But the scribes are far from original. Repeated rituals of administrative hearings that have no common purpose other than to string things out before the axe are being enacted.

Of late, the man most commonly associated with WikiLeaks’ publication project cannot participate in any meaningful way, largely because of his frail health and the dangers posed to him by the coronavirus. Having already made an effort to attend court proceedings in person, Assange has come across as judicial exotica, freak show fodder for Judge Vanessa Baraitser’s harsh version of Judge Judy. He was refused an application to escape his glass commode when he could still attend in person, as permitting him to descend and consult his defence team in a court room would constitute a bail application of some risk. This reading by the judicial head was so innovative it even puzzled the prosecutors.

What we know to date is that restrictions and shackles on Assange’s case are the order of the day. Restricted processes that do nothing to enable him to see counsel and enable a good brief to be exercised are typical. Most of all, the ceremonial circus that we have come to expect of British justice in the menacing shadow of US intimidation has become gloomily extensive.

On July 27, that circus was given yet another act, another limping performance. As before, the venue was the Westminster Magistrates’ Court in London.

During the proceeding, Assange did appear via video link from Belmarsh Prison, albeit it an hour late, and only at the insistence of his legal team. The Guardian report on his presence reads like an account of a sporting engagement.

Wearing a beige sweater and a pink shirt, Assange eventually appeared from Belmarsh prison after an earlier attempt was aborted.”

Others were alarmed. During his call-over hearing, noted Martin Silk of the Australian Associated Press, “neither the Australian, nor his guards, were wearing face masks. I don’t understand the reason for that given we have to wear them inside shops.” This point was also made by Assange’s partner, Stella Moris:

Belmarsh hasn’t provided Julian with a face mask throughout this covid crisis. The prison guards he interacts with don’t wear them either.”

WikiLeaks supporter Juan Passarelli also felt that Assange “was having trouble following the proceedings due to the Judge and lawyers not speaking loud enough and into the microphones.”

Arrangements for the hearing for observers proved characteristically sloppy. Freelance journalist Stefania Maurizi was unimpressed by being on the phone for two hours during which she “couldn’t understand more than 20 percent of what has been discussed.” She was adamant that “UK authorities don’t care at all about international reporters covering” the Assange proceedings. “Dial in system is, as usual,” agreed Passarelli, “a shambles!”

The topic of discussion during this administrative hearing was what was announced by the US Department of Justice on June 24, namely the second superseding indictment. That document proved to be a naked exercise of political overreach, adding no further charges to the already heavy complement of eighteen, seventeen of which centre on the US Espionage Act.

The scope of interest, however, was widened, notably on the issue of “hacking” and conferencing. Assange is painted as devilish recruiter and saboteur of the international secret order, a man of the conference circuit keen to open up clandestine governments and make various reasons for doing so.

According to the charging document, Assange and others at WikiLeaks recruited and agreed with hackers to commit computer intrusions to benefit WikiLeaks.”

Edward Fitzgerald QC, in representing Assange, fulfilled his norm, submitting that the recently revised document did little to inspire confidence in the nature of clarified justice.

We are concerned about a fresh request being made at this stage with the potential consequences of derailing proceedings and that the US attorney-general is doing this for political reasons.”

Fitzgerald reminded the court that US President Donald Trump had “described the defence case as a plot by the Democrats.”

This should have been obvious, but Baraitser’s court would have none of it. To admit at this point that Assange is wanted for political reasons would make it that much harder to extradite him to the United States, given that bar noted in the US-UK Extradition Treaty.

Whilst it was good of Fitzgerald to make this point, he should know by now that his audience is resolutely constipated and indifferent to such prodding. Assange is to be given the sharpest, rather than the most balanced, of hearings.

Accordingly, Baraitser insisted that Fitzgerald “reserve his comments” – she, in the true tradition of such processes, had not been supplied, as yet, with the US indictment.

This made the entire presence of all the parties at the Westminster Magistrates’ not merely meaningless but decidedly absurd.

Assange’s defence team could draw some cold comfort from Baraitser’s comments that July 27 was the deadline for any further evidence to be adduced by the prosecution before the September extradition hearing. One exception was permitted: psychiatric reports.

The current chief publisher of WikiLeaks Kristinn Hrafnsson had a few choice words for the prosecutors of Wikileaks.

“All the alleged events have been known to the prosecution for years. It contains no new charges. What’s really happening here is that despite its decade start the prosecution are still unable to build a coherent case.”

The scrapping of the previous indictments suggested that they were “flagrantly disregarding proper process.”

Assange is facing one of the most disturbing confections put together by any state that claims itself to be free. Should this stratagem work, the publisher will find himself facing the legal proceedings of a country that boasts of having a free press amendment but is keen on excluding him from it.

What is even more troubling is the desire to expand the tent of culpability, one that will include press outlets and those who disseminate classified information.

To the next circus instalment we go: a final call-over hearing in Westminster Magistrates’ Court on August 14, then the September 7 extradition hearing, to be held at the Central Criminal Court most of us know as the Old Bailey. Will justice prove blind, or merely blinded?

Dr. Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge. He lectures at RMIT University, Melbourne. Email: [email protected]

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wiki leaks is controlled
wiki leaks is controlled
Jul 31, 2020 10:19 PM

Wikileaks, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden are all controlled opposition. Why did the elites who run Hollywood make a movie out about Snowden? Real whistleblowers are always silenced, killed, or ignored.

merethan
merethan
Aug 4, 2020 8:40 PM

Trying to look smart?

I have no doubt secret services all around have tried to manipulate the behavior of Wikileaks and Assange, by means such as selectively feeding and/or withholding certain information, stalking individuals etc. Which is something to be taken into account. Calling the whole deal controlled opposition and thus disqualifying it, however, counts as gross to me.

Before talking shit about other people, ask yourself what you have achieved on stages such as this one. I smell an armchair hero here.

Calamity Jane
Calamity Jane
Jul 31, 2020 4:25 AM
Tony
Tony
Jul 31, 2020 8:16 PM
Reply to  Calamity Jane

77th brigade jane up to his/her usual tricks, trying to discredit our most important spokespeople. How much do you get jane? about 25k a year, plus a few exies and a moderate pension (which will be worth fuck-all next year when your bosses have finished crashing the global economy)?

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
Jul 30, 2020 8:50 PM

There’s absolutely no reason for holding Assange, its not as if he can go anywhere. We’re just pre-punishing him for threatening the system. It puts all those pious statements about human rights and the rule of law into perspective — cross the State Apparatus and the Committee for State Security will drop by for a chat. Some societies are at least honest about it. We’re free with the criticism of such societies but when the chips are down there’s a small concrete box devoid of human contact waiting for you.

merethan
merethan
Aug 4, 2020 8:43 PM
Reply to  Martin Usher

The process is the punishment. Even in the unlikely event he walks free after the show, an example has been set for everyone to see.

Darren
Darren
Jul 30, 2020 6:58 PM

If this case did anything to our society, it proved that we do NOT have a completely fair, honest and non-arbitrary system of justice.
Regardless how many people remember or follow Wikileaks, this case has shown that if a small, powerful group of people wants vengeance, victims can expect arbitrary, inquisitional treatment, void of UN human rights charter recognition, democratic constitutional protections, or international law!
This case shows that democratic nations are willing to wash their hands of their own citizens abroad with deafening silence and it shows that institutions like journalism are willing to sacrifice their own basic creeds rather than defend one of their own.
These are the tremors that loosen the communal solum of societies that cause the landslides of revolution.

paul
paul
Jul 30, 2020 4:44 PM

Aren’t we lucky to live in a country with an independent judiciary and the Rule Of Law?
Certainly puts my mind at rest.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 30, 2020 6:51 PM
Reply to  paul

…. and where Kangaroos reign supreme.
comment image

“The session of the Court of Star Chamber will resume after lunch.”

paul
paul
Jul 30, 2020 11:15 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

Perhaps Baraitser could trade in the wig and gown for a kangaroo outfit.

Captain Hindsight
Captain Hindsight
Jul 30, 2020 7:33 PM
Reply to  paul

All that changes when a corporate gun is aimed at your head.

crispy
crispy
Jul 30, 2020 2:33 PM

Justice!!!!

FFS,justice doesn’t come into it

Assange is a traitor to the five eyes,so he’s gonna get a good fucking for his treachery

And,as I’ve pointed out before,nobody gives a flying fuck

I think there’s an Australian journalists currently languishing in an Iranian prison,under pretty horrible conditions,maybe Mr Binoy would be better served trying to get her released instead of wasting his time on Assange

lundiel
lundiel
Jul 30, 2020 5:16 PM
Reply to  crispy

Kylie Moore Gilbert has the classic spy background, I know that doesn’t make her one but the fact that, according to her, the Iranians tried to recruit her says a lot. They wouldn’t bother if she had no links to the intelligence services.
Your sectarian hatred of Iran and idolisation of head-chopping terrorists is pathetic Louis.

crispy
crispy
Jul 30, 2020 6:30 PM
Reply to  lundiel

😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 30, 2020 7:25 PM
Reply to  crispy

Burn any good books, writers or authors lately?

paul
paul
Jul 31, 2020 1:41 AM
Reply to  crispy

Novel concept.
Everybody on the planet regardless of nationality has a duty of loyalty to the odd ragbag of spooks, hitmen, terrorist sponsors, blackmailers, and sex and drug traffickers that makes up the “intelligence establishment” of an alien, rogue state.
Or else they are “treacherous.”
Presumably everybody on the planet had a similar duty of loyalty to the late J. Epstein, Esq., and his handler Maxwell.

crispy
crispy
Jul 31, 2020 4:27 PM
Reply to  paul

Assange is Australian,therefore he’s in five eyes territory

He was a traitor to his own side irrespective of the fact he doesn’t think so

If he then sides with Russian propaganda outfit,RT international, so he’s really flicking the middle finger isn’t he!

He thinks his snowflake conspiracy army of useful idiots will help him,well i haven’t seen any mass global demonstrations to free Saint Julian,he’s certainly no prisoner of conscience like Nelson Mandela,and he won’t be receiving any awards,unless its the Darwin award

Ergo he gets a good fucking,he’s not a journalist,just a gobshite who believed his own fucking childish hype

He hasn’t changed the world,and nobody gives a shit about him,so there you go

Tony
Tony
Jul 31, 2020 8:25 PM
Reply to  crispy

Louis, why do you insist on always making a complete pillock out of yourself on OffG’s btl? I suspect you like your partner to shaft you with a dildo whilst flaying your backside in your between the sheets antics, and your posts on here to be a furtherance of this perversion.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jul 30, 2020 2:23 PM

UK Column News – 29th July 2020

Coroni is confused about spikes. Doctors in Italy say Coronavirus is clinically dead – there is enough immunity around to make it ineffective. Cases matter less than ever… so long as there is a level of immunity that doesn’t merit hospitalization.

PM Bojo is extremely concerned about ‘spikes’ but even the Corporatist Media is struggling to find any spikes.

BBC: Young people could be driving spikes in coronavirus infections
The Guardian doesn’t have anything to report so it looks backwards: The conditions for a coronavirus spike in Spain were clear. Yet no one saw it coming

CNN found a spike – but to do so it had to double Coronavirus deaths in South Africa, saying they had passed 14,000 deaths… more than twice the level clearly evident by cursory research.

So the BBC weighed in to CYA CNN – posing the non-question: Coronovairus in South Africa: Why the low fatality rate may be misleading. Strangely the BBC’s answers seem to have no particular connection to South Africa: fog of war/poor statistics, fear of hospitals, no one using giant field hospitals all apply equally well to the UK.

MASKS ARE THE NEW FRONTLINE
The blowback from COVID is that it’s focused attention on vaccines. As awareness grows about the troubled history of vaccines… governments become more desperate to keep the mask propaganda going.

SNP MSP Stewart Stevenson says he is considering wearing a face mask ‘for the rest of my life’

“I suspect that, for the rest of my life, I shall wish to wear a face mask to protect others from the risk that I might infect them. That is standard practice in many countries in the far east and has been for many years.”

The British government has not produced a Medical Risk Assessment of mask wearing. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Because it would not give the “correct” answer. Likewise the government’s advice ignores the evidence of prominent scientists on how to handle COVID.

The Spanish Flu of 1919 is commonly cited as a comparable pandemic to COVID. The evidence from California was that masks made no difference to the spread of the disease especially as they were usually made of the wrong material.

“As a woman, I find wearing a face mask liberating – I’m no longer judged on my appearance” — The Independent

MASKS ARE BEHAVIOUR MODIFICATION – softening up for vaccines.
Applied psychology is being used to see how much the governments can control people: If you can train people to wear masks as they walk in beautiful sunshine and fresh air… you can get them to accept almost anything.

BBC: Covid studies to examine virus link with ethnicity
Race is a key topic in COVID. The influence of Vitamin D deficiency has been known since the start of Event COVID, affecting races differently but the elderly uniformly. The obese are also vulnerable as Vitamin D gets trapped in fat.

UK STOCKPILES UNAPPROVED VACCINES – BUT WHO’LL PAY?
GSK and Sanofi deal adds another vaccine candidate – 60 million doses of their COVID-19 vaccine based on existing DNA technology used to produce their flu vaccine. A spike, a protein spike this time, is added to the flu vaccine to produce the COVID version.

The UK Government rolled out Business Secretary Alok Sharma to say “researchers are racing to find a safe and effective vaccine at a speed and scale never seen before”. We thought they were all safe?

UK Column has issued Freedom of Information Act request on Astra-Zeneca deal: whether they’ll be paid regardless of whether their vaccine is approved. However the UK Information Commissioner has removed the deadline by which requests should be answered.

FOIA requests will now be dealt on a “pragmatic basis”. Why would one restrict freedom of information? Because COVID.

ECONOMY – HOSPITALITY SECTOR DOWN 87%
Losses in the second quarter of 2020 are 30 billion pounds so far for pubs/hotels/restaurants.
BBC focuses on zombie companies that are living on debt with no income – mulls that things will be rough.

RBS-NatWest promises to support struggling firms. It’s the parent company of RBS that destroyed hundreds of businesses in the crash of 2008 by denying them emergency credit and then seizing their assets. 

SPACE LAUNCH
Public consultation on regulations to support the space industry. The proposal is for the first launch into space from UK territory. Of course the UK had a space programme in 1969-71 that the government cancelled. It was Black Arrow, a three-stage rocket that was designed to accept a fourth stage designed to launch satellites. It was world-class engineering but was regarded as competition to the U.S.

NASA offered to launch British satellites for free. Once the Black Arrow project was cancelled, NASA withdrew the offer.When Britain entered the EEC, the technology was given to France and became the Ariane rocket project. Now UK’s military has woken up and decided it needs modern rocket capability to counter a country that shall remain nameless.

UK Column News – 29th July 2020 https://youtu.be/ffc_642Lao8


Candis
Candis
Jul 30, 2020 4:17 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

”RBS-NatWest promises to support struggling firms. It’s the parent company of RBS that destroyed hundreds of businesses in the crash of 2008 by denying them emergency credit and then seizing their assets.”

That is a very kind description of what RBS did. The reality is far far worse, they asset stripped thousands of small and medium sized companies, who were perfectly solvent, but needed to maintain their loans.
RBS pulled the plug on man yfor fabricaded reson adn demanded repayment driving them into bankruptcy and selling their assets, that more than covered their debt. It was a systematic destruction of the British economy. Look up the guy who took them to court, it beggars belief what they did.

Polly
Polly
Jul 30, 2020 12:15 PM

5 Eyes is seeking to recruit Japan to its ranks, as the monster tightens it grip further on it’s subordinate states.
If the Japanese resist the subjugation of their security services, they will be seriously punished, perhaps with a terror attack, a political scandal, a nuclear power station fire or the burning down of a national monument.

I suspect their reluctance to destroy their own economy, by American order, has been noted, promoting their assimilation into 5 Eyes. It seems to me our own security service and military police our political class on behalf of the Americans.

crispy
crispy
Jul 30, 2020 6:40 PM
Reply to  Polly

Good get the Japanese involved

They like rugby also,maybe we can get them playing cricket???

Polly
Polly
Jul 30, 2020 12:03 PM

I’d be interested to hear what others here think, but for me the choice of London as a place to seek political refuge, even at that time, I thought extremely odd and unwise.

Even Paris with its history of shielding political dissidents, even western ones like Roman Polanski, was much of a safe bet, as well as having an army of willing French supporters at your beck and call, willing to pressure & bully the French government with demonstrations on your behalf, rather than the rag-tag of useless celebs he had collected around himself in London.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 6:07 PM
Reply to  Polly

Well my immediate take on that is that he wasn’t offered a map of the world and invited to pick a country at his leisure.

Eyes Open
Eyes Open
Jul 30, 2020 11:40 AM

The same witch hunt actors that smeared Assange with fake rape allegations are now championing Biden.

Complicit are Sweden who proclaimed Assange innocent after he was imprisoned.

Nixon Scraypes
Nixon Scraypes
Jul 30, 2020 10:41 AM

More like Judge Jeffries than Judy.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 6:08 PM
Reply to  Nixon Scraypes

A joke, who should be jailed for malicious incompetence and malpractice.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Jul 30, 2020 10:40 AM

Instead of the habitual belated crocodile tears – perhaps Alt-G could put the boot in daily and regularly on the On-G DS shills who conspired against Assange? And Starmer who’s office told the Swedes not to dare to retract the fake rape charges?
Or indeed to publish more daily stories of the DS and Military mecenarism of the U.K.?
Or indeed dig out the truth of who exactly is Baraister, a photo even?

Or declare the truth about the Hard BrexShit they themselves have been shilling for ever since being ‘born’!

How about it?

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 30, 2020 1:52 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Odd way you have to say you wish to submit a piece on Assange and Baraister to Off Guardian. Hope it is interesting. Hope it is publishable.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 6:11 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

A picture of Baraitser would be an excellent start. We all need something tangible in order to help us remember what evil incarnate really looks like.

David Matthews
David Matthews
Jul 30, 2020 8:04 PM
Reply to  wardropper

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Vanessa_Baraitser

Craig Murray supported a short video of her singing, but can’t find that now

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 8:19 PM
Reply to  David Matthews

Singing? Wow…
But what I really want is a video of her actually pretending to deliver justice…

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Aug 1, 2020 2:36 PM
Reply to  David Matthews

The singing was a spoof clip from a musical. 🙂

But thanks for that link, now how about her background?

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jul 30, 2020 7:17 PM
Reply to  DunGroanin

These may be photos of Baraister.

https://twitter.com/jlpassarelli/status/1267408303698718720/photo/1

https://twitter.com/msjenniferjames/status/1233045581070848000/photo/1

https://twitter.com/msjenniferjames/status/1233045581070848000/photo/2

As to Julian Assange, this farce and legal travesty must end. He should be freed at once. The war criminals behind his unjust imprisonment should be held accountable for their numerous crimes against peace and crimes against humanity.

breweriana
breweriana
Jul 30, 2020 10:36 AM

“Officially sanctioned media” loved him 10 years ago.
He put a foot wrong somewhere…

der einzige
der einzige
Jul 30, 2020 10:27 AM

Belfast Telegraph: What about 9/11?
Mossange: “I’m constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud.”
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/life/features/wanted-by-the-cia-julian-assange-wikileaks-founder-28548843.html

Howard
Howard
Jul 30, 2020 1:16 PM
Reply to  der einzige

Mr Assange’s categorical dismissal of 9/11 proves that the imperial beast will devour even those who occasionally choose to ignore some of its most egregious operations. No no: you either tow the correct line at all times or there will be hell to pay.

But in Mr Assange’s defense regarding 9/11, it could be noted that, as a journalist, he would be reluctant to accept a mountain of evidence (as compiled by the Architects & Engineers) when his profession requires a brief one-two-three sound bite of evidence.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 6:13 PM
Reply to  Howard

That’s a fair comment on a tricky situation.

David Matthews
David Matthews
Jul 30, 2020 8:09 PM
Reply to  wardropper

no it’s not

what’s the point of exposing the revolting incidents that followed on from 9/11 (which many of us would guess at anyway), whilst maintaining support for the official coverup of the event led to them?

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 9:36 PM
Reply to  David Matthews

What was fair about the comment was that “it could be noted that, as a journalist, he would be reluctant to accept a mountain of evidence (as compiled by the Architects & Engineers) when his profession requires a brief one-two-three sound bite of evidence.”
That is the fair comment I was referring to, and we should have in mind that this isn’t even an “either-or” situation. Assange’s revelations came out before the Architects & Engineers got their act together and before their significant annihilation of the official 911 fairy tale gained traction.
Openly ridiculing the official 911 story back at the time of the most dramatic WikiLeaks publications tended to invalidate the rights of the person involved to be taken seriously on any matter at all, but those 3,000 architects and engineers are now the ONLY people who should be taken seriously on the events of that day.
Which means that it is not now professional suicide both to support A&E and also to draw attention to those revolting incidents that followed on from 911.

David Matthews
David Matthews
Jul 30, 2020 10:47 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Well I had a friend (she now past on) who told me that as she watched the looping TV clips in the *days* after 11th Sept, said to her husband “I bet the Americans did this themselves”

I was pretty late in opening eyes, but it was well before A&E became prominent. The “rumors” (actually pretty good evidence) were out there when Assange said what he said, which AFAIK he never corrected and are a strange take on a startling event for someone that’s focused on government lies and deception.

It’s rather like another me, who has seen what 11th September and 7th July were, deciding to believe the covid story ( which the actual me does not)

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 31, 2020 12:50 AM
Reply to  David Matthews

My experience too. In particular, I thought there was something very wrong in 2003, when I realized how impossible the invasion of Iraq would have been without 911, and then I remembered how Hans Blix was prematurely stopped from doing his job when it seemed obvious he was soon going to announce that there were no WMD in that country.
My point is just that the atmosphere has changed since 2001, so that anybody saying then what A&E are saying now would have been effectively lynched by the media.
My feeling is that Assange just said something off-hand about it, then put it on a back burner while he dealt with his other tasks. We can acknowledge that a prominent person commenting truthfully on 911 is an extremely dangerous thing to do, while the publication of the Collateral Damage video is nevertheless hardly the act of a cowardly person.

David Matthews
David Matthews
Jul 31, 2020 8:12 AM
Reply to  wardropper

Understood.

I think we are more or less on the same page; you see just one of these staged events for what they are and you can never believe government again. Covid-19 comes along and even before I start to research evidence a bit, I’m thinking it’s probably a lie.

And don’t get me wrong about Assange – whatever he really is, if what we think is being done to him now really is, it’s an appalling. crucifixion.

At the back of my mind though is the thought that Jesus as a historical person is probably largely if not entirely a (Roman) government fiction. They wiped the old Egyptian religion off the face of the earth – the most successful government false flag / staged event ever?

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 31, 2020 4:11 PM
Reply to  David Matthews

A very good point about “when you have seen just one of these staged events for what they are”. For me, that trio of WMD, 911 and Covid – where “The Narrative” has assumed far more importance than the scientific truth – means exactly what you say. Anyone with a functioning brain will ask themselves, “So, if I couldn’t trust them on this, and that and that, why should I trust them on anything at all?”
I’m sure we are, indeed, on the same page, although my thoughts on Jesus push me in the direction of the following:
If the Roman government possessed such sublime powers of inspired imagination as to be able to create a spiritually unique personality like that, with a completely new philosophy capable of pointing the whole of mankind in a hitherto unknown direction, then the Roman government was not at all what we all thought it was, and had an astonishingly evolved spiritual-artistic sense…
One might also say that the old Egyptian religion had had its day, and that something had to happen, just as modern corrupt society will soon have had its day, and something will have to happen there too.
In the long term, I think mankind cannot seriously influence the evolutionary things which occur over millennia, and even the inspired thoughts of our greatest personalities need the cooperation of something even wiser if lasting change for the better is to occur.
From what I have learned, for example, the Egyptian society of a few thousand years ago was strictly hierarchical – not merely for practical reasons, but because people simply thought differently in those days. Personal freedom was simply not a thing, and even the pharaohs knew that their very existence was a gift from the gods.
With Jesus, even if we leave aside for the moment His crucial message of Love (not meaning, of course, “sentimental attachment”…) there came the additional new message that a man was responsible for his own soul, and possessed the inner freedom to serve it to the best of his ability, whatever his outer circumstances.
That was interpreted by some at the time as fermenting social unrest, yet it is essentially a 100% peace-making concept, and one of which, to my mind, we are still in desperate need today.
But I also think that it was ahead of its time – not in a negative way, but completely naturally, in the sense that unless you plant seeds, you get no fruit.
You will notice that I have left “The Church” out of my thoughts on this matter entirely. Quite deliberately.

David Matthews
David Matthews
Jul 31, 2020 9:33 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Wardropper!

It feels a bit odd to be having this veering off topic to a private conversation via off-guardian. But here goes anyway.

Firstly I have no interest or desire in persuading any Christian person that they have a fake savior. To me it’s a fuzzy area (maybe it just *is* a fuzzy area) – but the historical nature (or not) of Jesus does not necessarily contradict any religious belief.

According to D M Murdock’s Christ in Egypt, there is hardly anything in the Christian Jesus story that is original and thus the Roman government had no need for sublime imagination.

If you’re interested, you can probably find a pdf copy on the internet. If you can’t and would like to read it, I’ll dump a copy on line for you.

It’s not an easy read, but very, very thoroughly researched – I was 100% convinced in it’s main thrust, that Christianity long predates the common era.

I had a weird experience around this tome – I read it while I was still in Africa, which I had to leave in a hurry. Right at the end of my sojourn there I finally got around to socializing with this African couple that I had identified as likely friends. I’m not a snob, but the man was educated (this was a rural – black only – African area, but I’m a white boy) and the woman was a traditional healer ie a white witch (not white skinned!).

To my great surprise we spent a long evening discussing off-guardian type topics (11th Sept etc). This guy had come on the Jesus in Egypt story from a different angle to me and insisted that it was an elaborate and viscous Roman con, which had wiped Egypt out of human consciousness for hundreds of years – ie until the Rosseta stone.

I haven’t got around to checking out what he said, (Flavian emperors heavily involved), but it seemed to dovetail with the information I had.

wardropper
wardropper
Aug 1, 2020 2:09 AM
Reply to  David Matthews

I can only say that if it was a Roman that came up with the idea of Jesus, it certainly wasn’t a government official. I am certain they had more mundane things on their minds.
But I’m being rather flippant.
I have been reading for decades about the subject of Jesus and his historic, and spiritual, reality, – not in order to become an expert, but because it interests me greatly – and I have endless literature left to pore through before I get too old to digest any more. I will certainly have your recommendation in mind nevertheless. Thank you for that.
Just rest assured that I am not a preacher either, but if we were to meet, I would enjoy sharing those decades of enthusiasm with you, if you wanted.
The coming and going of great civilizations, going back to ancient India, and before that ancient Persia, is a fascinating topic, but it seems to me that when they fell, it was because their time had come.
The corruption of the Roman Empire, for example, preceded its fall, and it could be argued that it had nothing more to say in terms of future human evolution. The ancient Greeks, too, much as I adore their artistic miracles of sculpture and painting, did not think in a way which is compatible with modern mankind’s general insistence upon being allowed to be a free individual, so they, too, fell by the wayside, as we all will at some point.
That’s where Christ Jesus comes in – for me at least.
It points to a future, although the signs are as yet pretty faint. But that topic is so vast (however insignificant it might seem to many people today) that this is definitely not the place for it. So, a final thought:
Inasfar as modern man has a conscience worthy of the name (I’m not talking here about “duty” or “patriotism”), that’s probably the best place to start working towards a better future, as well as working upon oneself.

David Matthews
David Matthews
Aug 1, 2020 8:34 AM
Reply to  wardropper

we sure have some common interests.

dmatthews.org – you’d find my contact details there if you poke around a bit.. I’m in UK BTW

I knew an Italian guy briefly – he said the Romans were bastards. I loved the ancient Greeks since I was a small boy – I traveled around the Peloponnese for two weeks once, Sparta was my favorite spot.

Always been fascinated by the thought that Europeans originated in India – I believe study of languages is strong evidence for that?

I’m gonna again have to slightly disagree with you – according to Murdock the Roman’s Jesus story doesn’t really contribute anything new. It’s largely down to a rewrite of Egyptian religion (which they had plundered a la Henry VIII) which had some influences from Persia and India. Apparently they forbade the use of Egyptian language (spoken and written) and only the discovery of the Rosetta stone made modern investigation into the culture possible.

What they did contribute I think (this is off top of head and not properly thought out or researched) is that the leadership does not have to be at the front of the fighting – someone else can do that for them. Oh and also plumbing!

wardropper
wardropper
Aug 2, 2020 1:23 AM
Reply to  David Matthews

Well, at least I can agree with you that the Egyptians and the mystical origins of Christianity have a lot in common, but it seems to me that Jesus was a unique figure.
Individual self-consciousness seems to be the key, but it’s too vast a subject to summarize here.
Happy researching!

Howard
Howard
Jul 31, 2020 3:05 PM
Reply to  wardropper

If I may interject something at this point, I because wary of the official 9/11 narrative in November of 2001. That was when the infamous video of Osama bin Laden laughing and boasting of having caused the event surfaced. My thought was “How convenient: just when the American public was beginning to have doubts about the official narrative, a video appears out of nowhere ‘proving’ that bin Laden was behind it.”

And, yes, that soon after the incident the people were beginning to question it. But the video kind of quelled all that.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 31, 2020 4:42 PM
Reply to  Howard

Indeed.
Also this from CNN, Sept. 2001:
“In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, “The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.
“I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seem to have been planned by people for personal reasons,” bin Laden’s statement said.”
(Ignored by our government, of course)

David Matthews
David Matthews
Jul 30, 2020 8:05 PM
Reply to  der einzige

yes indeed (=up vote)

TFS
TFS
Jul 30, 2020 10:25 AM

More and more people are waking up and in response from ‘the ruling class’, is that they have decided that they must pull back the curtain on the fraud that is ‘Democracy’ and show Fascism/Totalitarianism at work.

Nostradamus couldn’t hold a candle to George Carlin.

DONNIE
DONNIE
Jul 30, 2020 9:33 AM

“….and the dangers posed to him by the coronavirus.” Here we go again

Cascadian
Cascadian
Jul 30, 2020 9:52 AM
Reply to  DONNIE

What would our lives be if we aren’t exposed such august comments from a sage such as you, DONNIE.

Ask yourself whether you would be able to withstand the pressures being imposed on on innocent man (that is, presuming that you are innocent of something).

DONNIE
DONNIE
Jul 30, 2020 11:03 AM
Reply to  Cascadian

I would not withstand pressures being imposed on me. But I would not worry about coroni while facing those pressures.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 6:17 PM
Reply to  DONNIE

You’re forgetting that they could give him a slight cold, call it covid, put him on a ventilator which would engineer his demise and bury him in an unmarked grave a few days later…
You do realize we are not talking about “nice people” here…?

DONNIE
DONNIE
Jul 30, 2020 6:38 PM
Reply to  wardropper

you and me are on the same page, mate. I’m not forgetting anything, including Sadam’s wmd and Dr D.Kelly. Otherwise, instead of reading off-guardian I would just happily keep watching bbc and live masked and distanced trouble-free life, no questions asked.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 30, 2020 6:50 PM
Reply to  DONNIE

All good. I was just drawing attention to the fact that Assange might have every reason to fear the “coroni”…

TFS
TFS
Jul 30, 2020 10:18 AM
Reply to  DONNIE

‘Here we go again’ what?

Are you suggesting his health is not at risk and the UN and various doctors are LIARS?

Howard
Howard
Jul 30, 2020 1:18 PM
Reply to  TFS

No, “the UN and various doctors” are not at all LIARS! They are very well paid LIARS, thank you very much. Just ask Bill Gates how much it’s costing him.

TFS
TFS
Jul 30, 2020 2:15 PM
Reply to  Howard

So the ‘very well paid’ UN doctors are lying about Julian Assanges health on behalf of their paymaster Bill Gates?

Do you mean the WHO and their funder Bill Gates?

Howard
Howard
Jul 30, 2020 3:45 PM
Reply to  TFS

Sorry, I took you too literally. I didn’t realize you were talking about UN special rapporteur on torture Nils Melzer. My mistake. As to Mr Assange’s health being at risk, that’s not in question; it’s only the COVID-19 angle that’s in question – which is what commenter Donnie was referring to.

crispy
crispy
Jul 30, 2020 6:38 PM
Reply to  Howard

Assange wasn’t tortured,he self isolated for a couple of years before it became popular 😜

Looks like he’ll be self isolated for a long time,shame some of his mates can’t join him,you know like that other pro kremlin stooge Craig Murray

Wasn’t this bloke who wrote this article involved in some sort of daft political party in Australia???

What was it called?

Something like the wiki leaks party,and didn’t they send a contingent over to lick Assads arse,which they did,despicable low life scum in my opinion

So assange was not only a traitor to the five eyes but his silly ‘ political ‘ party was also busy appeasing nasty murderous dictators,no wonder he’s gonna get buried

paul
paul
Jul 30, 2020 11:24 PM
Reply to  crispy

China’s got the right idea. Do a twofer. Pick up a few Canadian spooks by way of reprisal and threaten to shoot them instead of just kicking their spying arses back to Maple Syrup Land.

DONNIE
DONNIE
Jul 30, 2020 6:58 PM
Reply to  TFS

look mr, TFS, there must be some bloody confusion regarding Assange, coroni and doctors. I would say, that doctors talking about Assange’s bad health are telling true story. Some various other doctors telling us about extreme danger of coroni are lying.I think we both understand that if something bad will happen to Julian then it wont be because of coroni.

Polly
Polly
Jul 30, 2020 9:19 AM

The Online Harms White Paper:

”…….Companies will be held to account for tackling a comprehensive set of online harms, ranging from illegal activity and content to behaviours which are harmful but not necessarily illegal.

Eyes Open
Eyes Open
Jul 30, 2020 1:27 PM
Reply to  Polly

The Online Harms Paper will harm society. Human rights lawyers will keep quiet.

Polly
Polly
Jul 30, 2020 2:22 PM
Reply to  Eyes Open

I wonder, why the human rights groups are they so scared, are their lives and careers already being openly threatened? How is this silencing working?

Polly
Polly
Jul 30, 2020 9:10 AM

I know his pursuit by the US sets a terrible precedent for journalist and journalism all over the world, and he should be defended to the fullest, whatever he is, but I can’t help wondering who Assange is ultimately working for.Has my mind been poisoned against hm with subtle black propaganda or is his strange background telling us something else about who he is.
Forgive me Assange if you are the real deal, but as I said, either way we should all be behind your case.

Cascadian
Cascadian
Jul 30, 2020 9:54 AM
Reply to  Polly

You, Polly, should perhaps not pay too much attention to our officially sanctioned media and instead pay a little more attention to those consider him a friend. John Pilger would be a good place to start.

breweriana
breweriana
Jul 30, 2020 10:38 AM
Reply to  Cascadian

officially sanctioned media” loved him 10 years ago.
What do you suppose went wrong?

Polly
Polly
Jul 30, 2020 11:57 AM
Reply to  breweriana

Perhaps when their offices were raided by MI5 as an arm of the CIA and their comments sections taken over by GCHQ, their stance was forced to change?

But like you, I can’t get away from my doubts. The choice of London as a place to seek refuge, even at the time, I thought extremely odd and unwise.

Even Paris with its history of shielding political dissidents, even western ones like Roman Polanski, was much more secure, as well as having an army of willing French supporters at your beck and call, willing to pressure & bully the French government with demonstrations in your defense, rather than the rag-tag of useless celebs he had in London.

paul
paul
Jul 30, 2020 11:25 PM
Reply to  breweriana

He told the truth.

Thom
Thom
Jul 30, 2020 1:41 PM
Reply to  Polly

Yes, I have my doubts too. It may be Assage is on the level but I’m not convinced either way. It is probably better to give him the benefit of the doubt but I wouldn’t go ayny further than that.

Troy
Troy
Jul 30, 2020 4:05 PM
Reply to  Thom

Agreed, and defend him as a journalist. But it wouldn’t be the first time the US had bragged about their evil deeds in public and pretended to prosecute one of their best buddies, Trump comes to mind.

paul
paul
Jul 30, 2020 11:27 PM
Reply to  Troy

This is stretching the psyop theory some way beyond breaking point when you consider the cost to JA.

PrettyPolly
PrettyPolly
Jul 30, 2020 9:09 AM

I know his pursuit by the US sets a terrible precedent for journalist and journalism all over the world, and he should be defended to the fullest, whatever he is, but I can’t help wondering who Assange is ultimately working for.Has my mind been poisoned against hm with subtile black propaganda or is his strange background telling us something else about who he is.
Forgive me Assange if you are the real deal, but as I said, either way we should all be behind your case.

KarenEliot
KarenEliot
Jul 30, 2020 9:04 AM

Interesting how events seem to follow a carefully worked out cycle isn’t it: the intensification of censorship of social media to counter the ‘fake news’ threat reaches boiling point (again, and again) and oh, look, the Online Harms Bill will soon be being debated in the House of Commons. In a plot twist everyone saw coming for years here we see the sacrificial victim being led closer to the pyre.

When I say ‘debated’ it’s of course a foregone conclusion that the paving legislation for a massive and irreversible shutdown of dissent will pass into law, maybe with a few little rough edges knocked off to appease the pearl-clutchers and Red Pepper ‘left’. Keith Starmer and the rest of that mob will clap heartily and then scratch their heads as their poll ratings just carry on as they are.

And we? We can’t associate in public anymore for fear of the plague, can’t smile at one another from beneath our muzzles, can’t even chat in hushed voices by the workplace coffee point (those of us still in jobs, for the time being) because of the “maximum 1 person allowed at a time” directive. All that leaves us is mediated communications via approved unencrypted channels with the threat of instant suspension or banning for questioning the established narrow band of opinions.

Want to buy ‘subversive’ literature? Tough, the last of the independent bookshops will be gone soon. The others will sell you Hello magazine and Sudoku and bottled water (and disposable face masks no doubt) so you’ll have to buy online, leaving an audit trail and a profile that one day or another brings a Transit van full of spooks or a drone to your neighbourhood. Yes it seems terribly paranoid but day after day that tiny bit less… frogs in saucepans aren’t we..?

Polly
Polly
Jul 30, 2020 9:16 AM
Reply to  KarenEliot

The paranoid have been telling us for a long time now that we were being watched, and they were right.

Cascadian
Cascadian
Jul 30, 2020 9:56 AM
Reply to  Polly

‘are’ is a word perhaps not found in your dictionary, Polly?

Grafter
Grafter
Jul 30, 2020 9:52 AM
Reply to  KarenEliot

Good post Karen. Yes I do seem to recollect that this gradual erosion of our liberties was expounded and endorsed by,….what’s his name,… ah yes,…. Adolf Hitler .

Eyes Open
Eyes Open
Jul 30, 2020 11:46 AM
Reply to  KarenEliot

This is so frightening to me, but I’m getting more and more angry too.

Our media, the BBC, the Left, Galloway, Jones etc al, the unions and every one of our politicians is aiding and abetting fascism. They are traitors of humanity.

breweriana
breweriana
Jul 30, 2020 11:49 AM
Reply to  Eyes Open

“Go along to get along.”
At back of it, that’s all they ever really subscribed to.

nondimenticare
nondimenticare
Jul 30, 2020 4:27 PM
Reply to  KarenEliot

Camus’s The Plague could have been written yesterday.

Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings
Jul 30, 2020 8:57 AM

There really isn’t a case for Assange to answer so powerful shysters who should have paid more attention to their computer system security, are making his incarceration last as long as possible.
The rape charge, which originally got Assange attention along with an illegal arrest and deportation by Swedish authorities, has come to nothing as the witness has scarpered. Probably didn’t fancy being cross examined. Or maybe the money ran out.

Apparently it took a while for US/nato spooks to locate a corrupt enough Swedish judge to sign the original arrest warrant.

I would have had more respect for Assange had he not repeated the bushwhacker and said that the Sept 11th twin towers demolitions wasn’t because of a conspiracy involving several gov’ts. It most obviously was and Assange should have known that.

bob
bob
Jul 30, 2020 8:11 AM

British justice doesn’t exist anymore

The circus described above is now ‘normalised’ for ordinary citizens (remember them, that’s us). Freedom of Information requests have been disbanded as the Commissioner thinks there’s no point in mandating a 30 day response by government anymore; health providers can act in discriminatory ways and ignore complaints; insurance companies delay and obstruct reasonable claims on their travel cover; local authorities can now dictate whether a town can open and under what conditions and on it goes – all due to an unproved ‘virus’

The Rule of Law does not exist for anyone

The people are, truly, on their own. The regime and its followers can do what they like – and the mass of the people have accepted this – we are truly fucked, all of us

Tony Bradbury
Tony Bradbury
Jul 30, 2020 8:36 AM
Reply to  bob

Well said Bob!

Ælfræd
Ælfræd
Jul 30, 2020 9:48 AM
Reply to  bob

Did it ever really exist for anyone but the Aristocracy and Plutocracy? Now we have rthe additions of technocrats to the ruling class.

Eyes Open
Eyes Open
Jul 30, 2020 11:48 AM
Reply to  bob

And every single union, who should be fighting on our behalf is turning a blind eye.

Geoff
Geoff
Jul 30, 2020 1:30 PM
Reply to  Eyes Open

Well to be fair unions are only a strong as their membership, and now have virtually no power whatsoever, the morons believed the fascist cow thatcher and gladly obliged in the smashing of them believing them to be ‘too’ militant, when in fact they were one of the weakest in Europe, and I always ask my critics when did we ever win a NATIONAL dispute? never no union was ever going to be allowed to win a national dispute regardless of the cost ,and now everything is great in the workplace isn’t it, they done the same with brexit, and once again the morons followed, maybe in twelve months time if you can find anyone who voted leave . they may express their stupidity

Eyes Open
Eyes Open
Jul 30, 2020 1:39 PM
Reply to  Geoff

EU Article 106 (pro-privatisation, anti-renationalisation legislation) and the vicious austerity enabling Maastricht Treaty were a few of the many reasons I voted to leave the EU. Pardon my stupidity.

I’ve never vilified Remain voters.

Geoff
Geoff
Jul 30, 2020 2:14 PM
Reply to  Eyes Open

But these fascists have all but just renationalised part of our railway so that’s plainly not true : The UK has partially nationalised its railways as a temporary measure battling the coronavirus crisis. Rail freight remains in commercial hands, while the UK government has taken charge of the passenger rail network. All commercial franchisees have been suspended for at least six months from today. Given that the infrastructure manager Network Rail is a government agency, that leaves freight as the most significant commercial operation on the British railway network. 

how come all the water, gas. electricity. rail. most buses trams etc are all nationalised in most European countries, there is no law to say industries cannot be taken back into public ownership, and OK it was a tory government that imposed austerity, OK, you had a reason to vote leave millions didn’t and were just lead

Eyes Open
Eyes Open
Jul 30, 2020 2:21 PM
Reply to  Geoff

It’s not true renationalisation in this case. They’re not owned by the public. (See 4th railway package and recent Norway railway strike (forced EU privatisation from EEA Single Market membership) etc.)

EU member states railway privatisation is ongoing in the same way the UK’s happened. The tracks first, bit by bit. RMT Union (unless they’ve been leaned on recently) warned about it.

Mick
Mick
Jul 30, 2020 3:12 PM
Reply to  bob

Concur.

lundiel
lundiel
Jul 30, 2020 7:59 AM

I’m surprised the Covid-19 deniers haven’t descended en masse to report that Assange has nothing to worry about and congratulate the Belmarsh authorities for their resistance to wearing muzzles.

Thomas S.
Thomas S.
Jul 30, 2020 8:14 AM
Reply to  lundiel

I don’t deny the disease but certainly deny the idea of a “pandemic”. Assange should be careful because, by all accounts, he has had frail health since a few years before the Ecuadorans betrayed him.

But, in general, it does get tiring to hear every prisoner in the world try to get freed cuz “Covid gonna kill me”.

Paul too
Paul too
Jul 30, 2020 1:29 PM
Reply to  lundiel

Enjoy and cherish your muzzle.

Geoff
Geoff
Jul 30, 2020 1:33 PM
Reply to  lundiel

You don’t go around praising people for not breaking into your home .or car, I for one stubbornly refuse to wear a mask , sod them and the fools who follow them

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 30, 2020 3:17 PM
Reply to  lundiel

I’d happily do it.

So you believe that Boris became afflicted just at the time his wife was giving birth, do you, lundiel? That doesn’t stretch your credulity at all?

And you believe that people fall flat on their faces because of this virus, and 90-year-old grandmothers recover miraculously through the eating of potato soup and 52-year-old men are brought back miraculously from death’s door from taking hydroxychloroquine and 82-year-old sufferers of dementia are also pulled back from the brink by a course of antibiotics and they keep highly-infectious COVID patients in ICUs coughing all over the show?

Your credulity stays intact in the face of all these media stories?

paul_m
paul_m
Jul 30, 2020 7:53 AM

the baraitser chamber

definition,a dark,dank fetid outhouse with the msm hanging from a rusty nail.

Wilmers31
Wilmers31
Jul 30, 2020 7:50 AM

All those who are anti-war are being harassed, some pay the ultimate price.
Assange
the late Dr. Kelly
(Dixie) Chicks
Tom Curley (former Associated Press Chief).

And these are only those against the Iraq War, the few that I know of.
Jeff Carney was anti-war in 1983 in Berlin and paid, too.

Politicians even do not use the opportunities which they have. On the day the Assange case first went across the Australian media, then Prime Minister Julia Gillard said of Assange ‘it was an irresponsible thing to do.’

She had the perfect excuse to say that it’s all very new and she had not yet read the file. Now we hear, the Australian anti-China militarism had its beginnings under Julia Gillard. No point voting Labor at all!!!

paul_m
paul_m
Jul 30, 2020 7:35 AM

the baraitser chamber.

definition,a dark,dank fetid outhouse with the british msm hanging from a rusty nail.

Bas
Bas
Jul 30, 2020 7:08 AM

Brains at work and historical samples making headlines. Educated men sailed the Titanic and ordered the Dardanelles attack. Two samples of many we can call disasters as a result. Fitting in that line is the Hess/Assange story. Two totally different men on a mission. One with tales of coming war again the common enemy called communism, the other with tales of how it is, and will be done. Both are not required in the big picture with a unknown outcome. We can clearly see now is for elite gifted brains a bridge to far.

Eyes Open
Eyes Open
Jul 30, 2020 11:54 AM
Reply to  Bas

I’m not seeing any threats of communism. I’m seeing plenty of threats of fascism.

Bas
Bas
Jul 30, 2020 12:09 PM
Reply to  Eyes Open

Me to.

Tutisicecream
Tutisicecream
Jul 30, 2020 5:55 AM

In the year of Covid-19 the mask of the Star Chamber emerges as the core of British justice. 

Definition, a former court of inquisitorial and medieval criminal jurisdiction in England that sat without a jury and that became noted for its arbitrary methods. 

breweriana
breweriana
Jul 30, 2020 10:43 AM
Reply to  Tutisicecream

the Star Chamber emerges”
It’s always been there for the ordinary classes of people.

Antonym
Antonym
Jul 30, 2020 4:45 AM

These Anglo Deep State obstinate obstructions only go to show how desperate they are and how correct Wikileaks was publishing their dark secrets.

Far away from liberty, equality or fraternity in the West.

Nixon Scraypes
Nixon Scraypes
Jul 30, 2020 10:54 AM
Reply to  Antonym

I wonder what liberty, equality and fraternity mean to the organisation that commandeered the saying? Probably the reverse of what most people think.