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In Memoriam – Andre Vltchek

OffG is shocked to hear that Andre Vltchek, a long-time contributing author and friend of the site, died yesterday in Istanbul.

He died suddenly whilst travelling in Turkey with his wife. Turkish officials are treating the death as “suspicious”, but as yet no details have been released. He was 57 years old.

Whatever the circumstances surrounding his death may be, there is no denying the loss will be felt – not just by his friends and family – but by the alternate media in general.

He wrote hundreds of articles – many of them for OffGuardian – published several books, and produced many feature-length documentaries. He was an anti-Imperialist, a humanitarian, and an unrepentant socialist.

While we may not always have agreed with each other, there was no doubting his sincerity or his work ethic. He was, until the end, a fierce warrior on behalf of the working class – especially in the developing world.

He was a powerful voice in the alternate media, and he will be sorely missed.

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Margaret
Margaret
Sep 27, 2020 8:06 PM

Hi Admin, Can you tell me why My posts aren’t being accepted?

Eric Blair
Eric Blair
Sep 27, 2020 1:47 AM

Very sad to learn about this earlier in the week. Without a doubt Andre Vltchek was the most passionate and consistent “alt left” journalist out there. I will miss his heartfelt articles and reports from the frontlines of the battle between the western empire and its victims and opponents.

I find it sad that people feel the need to say “I didn’t always agree with Andre” before saying they really respect his work. Since when did respecting someone’s work mean you had to agree with every word they’ve ever written or uttered? Oh yeah since about 2007 or so when the world started going insane. Even on this website when someone posts an opinion that counters the majority view, they will more often than not get haughtily dismissed as chumps, fools or “trolls” even when their post is logical and well-argued (and granted that’s not always the case). You don’t have to agree with an argument to accept that it has merit. After all, how will you learn anything new and develop your knowledge if you never put your own views and beliefs to the test? Anyway. /aside

There aren’t that many dedicated and consistent journalists who put their money where their mouth is and report “on location” rather than sitting in a comfortable room with all the consumer capitalist trappings within easy reach. Andre was one of the few and the absence of his voice will be felt.

Counterpunch guy Jeffrey St. Clair managed to retweet an ‘Andre Vltchek is dead’ tweet. How thoughtful of him. I wonder if he reflected on his own despicable cowardice for kicking Andre off his magazine? Probably not. St. Clair and his Counterpunch buddy, that The Unflinching Marxist asshole, have their heads so far up their own fundaments that the only thing they ever see is their own putrid shit. St. Clair has a raging case of TDS and The Unflinching Marxist is a shill for every NATO/US foreign policy position. Real brave and principled “counterpunchers.” Vltchek ran circles around these guys.

Rest is peace Andre, and thank you for sharing your passion and dedication with us. You will be missed.

Tony
Tony
Sep 26, 2020 10:08 AM
falcemartello
falcemartello
Sep 25, 2020 4:48 AM

Pace e Bene compagno

Margaret Phelan
Margaret Phelan
Sep 24, 2020 5:24 PM

Andre Vlchek without a doubt in my mind, was murdered!!!!!
The noose tightens around our throats, to shut us up, and we are powerless.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 10:40 PM

we are powerless”

Erm, not really. They can’t poison 7 billion people but they can brainwash us into thinking we’re powerless. It might be a good idea for the prominent truth-tellers among us to take the psychopathic bastards seriously, and realize they will kill whoever is a threat, and act accordingly. I think too many of us still believe “They” wouldn’t go that far. They would.

Magnus
Magnus
Sep 25, 2020 8:49 AM

I totally agree with you. We are at a turning point and it is up to us all to make a change not just a couple of thousand, who think only they have the right to dictate mankind’s present and future.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 25, 2020 5:43 PM
Reply to  Magnus

Well, that would be cute of us, all, but they have been hard at work to freeze us out of their hierarchy of security clearances. Most of their scheme is made of invisible barriers that are structured to “hide the Cracker” as one Mason told me.

So, it is that precise, designed structure that needs to be analyzed in depth and detail, as we are almost all unbeknownnst to us, more than anything a resemblance to billions of flies trapped on their worldwide web, not quite dead exactly, but narrowly captured while keeping the “freedom’, like web-based flies, to wiggle our arms and legs. Without really going anywhere, beyond capture.

The last half year has been a pretty stark clue as to the Reality of that. As goeth the fly, so goeth our numbers in a comparable fly-like Virtual House Arrest.

Unless we can understand and counter that mechanism (it seems to be developing into some kind of a very real “Matrix” — quite a bit, in essence, like what we see in the eponymous movies) we will be thrashing about to not much real effect.

Such a slavery is surely not what God intended. But we must see more visibly the gears, themselves.

I will say this much about preparing a right spirit for such a fearsome Odyssey, and as said in a Psalm thousands of years ago, “Who shall acend my holy mountain? Only the one whose hands are clean, who accepts no bribes…”

There will not be any discernment of the Mechanism, worthy of the name without the right spirit. If the quest fails, look closer at the recipe!

SYMPTOMS V. DISEASE:

It seems to me that most address all the deadening symptoms of this global malaise, but the really practical thing would be to see clearly the precise teeth of this machine, and how it chews us up.

I’m speaking now in figures about “It” — for others to fill in the blanks.

As Artaud saw: ” …for it is not man but society which has become abnormal.” How much more so as The Machine is more developed, redundantly failsafe, and normalising 100 years after he wrote that.

I think there is much to be gained in the discernment of That Machine and seeing it’s mechanisms more clearly.

The essayists and posters at this site have a lot of that analytical fervor in their wheelhouse, which is why I post this here, and often visit.

But I still see mostly symptoms overwhelmingly addressed, since we are all more or less symptomatic, ourselves, targets and “captures” even more than we know, of a beastly ungodly Machine (on as many levels as you like to name).

A big feature of that Machine, in “hiding the Cracker” as much as it can (“the Pediment of Appearances lift it’s cowl and scowls” –Wallace Stevens poem) from us, is installing a Wilderness of Mirrors to multiply our bafflements.

I say, see their game and look around them.

There will always be a Reality they can’t hijack.

But it will only be seen if we can see into and around their Machine (hierarchy of security clearances, bribe-ola, mechanisms of practical exactitude in our “capture”, yadaya etc).

Their Profusions of Illusions Ponzi Scheme (global now) gets most of it’s strength from its distractions. Especially distracting us from its precise structure.

Yo, check it out!

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 25, 2020 1:47 PM

I agree Steven that we truth tellers should keep up the momentum, but the MSM presstitute lackeys have dutifully planted the eggs, and the worms are growing in the sheeples backsides, and they are slowly eating their way through to the brains. They have and are ‘poisoning’ 7 billion people with their lies, whether we want to admit it or not. Goebels researched this well and left a blueprint.
Our only tool is to keep researching and sharing what we find, but the outlets for that are becoming more and more limited daily.
Who will stop them Steven? Who?

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 25, 2020 3:04 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Margaret!

All is not lost; if all were lost, “They” wouldn’t be putting any energy into trying to make us believe that it is. We have to form bigger blobs of resistance by using social media more widely and subversively: tell the Truth whenever you can. Start a blog (buy your own domain if you can afford to and host yourself), encourage enlightened friends to do likewise. The listening device of social media is a two-way channel… “They” gather data regarding our attitudes and moods with it… therefore, every comment is a micro-vote… therefore “vote” often and clearly. Everyone needs to become a Well-Educated Thinker and Communicator. We can do that. We can slow the avalanche down!

I’ve written more on all that here, linked below, under section 7 (“Who Are They?”); maybe you’ll find it interesting…? If you have a blog already bring it to my attention, please! If you don’t have one, I urge you to create one!

https://berlin8berlin.wordpress.com/2020/09/21/the-magnificent-agony-of-the-artist-two-kilometers-up-the-sheer-rock-face-of-your-serene-indifference/

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 8:37 AM

My basic point: we have to work harder to Normalize Dissent.

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Sep 26, 2020 10:50 AM
Eric Blair
Eric Blair
Sep 27, 2020 1:55 AM

I don’t know if he was murdered. The Turkish cops say his death was “suspicious” but no further information has been released.

Margaret Kimberly of Black Agenda Report reposted some of his tweets from a few months ago and Andre talked about how he was being fucked around and betrayed and that he might not be alive for much longer, so there is that.

He certainly was very straightforward and criticized people to their face, as it were. Sometimes pissing off a thin-skinned dickhead with connections is all it takes. But as it stands there is no real evidence that he was killed. He did have chronic health conditions and that’s a more likely cause.

Kathy
Kathy
Sep 24, 2020 3:55 PM

This is indeed sad and shocking new. A true, truth seeker..His insightful articles will be greatly missed. My deepest condolences to his loved ones.

Eric Blair
Eric Blair
Sep 24, 2020 3:53 PM

Found out about this yesterday, very sad news. I was sometimes critical of André’s stance on certain issues but the man’s integrity, courage and genuine compassion for people under the imperialist and global capitalist boot was unflinching and came through in all of his work. I have nothing but respect for the man and will miss his passionate reports from the frontlines of empire. RIP my friend.

Abu aisha
Abu aisha
Sep 24, 2020 3:31 PM

A terrible loss, of a great journalist that comes from a generation and mentality which is at an end. Sovietski soyuz for the motherfucking win

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Sep 24, 2020 3:13 PM

Andre had more courage and ethical integrity then that entire clown show over at CounterPuff – which is why the CounterPuff boys had to eventually ban his writing and stop posting him there.

Now that Andre is “safely dead” maybe Amy Goodman over at Democracy Now will finally be willing to acknowledge that in fact he was once actually “alive.” Then again, probably not.

Andre stands head and shoulders above the sanitized fake left in always, always calling out imperialism and challenging the West’s self-deluded lies of – “humanitarian intervention” – exposing it for the lawless barbarity that it invariably has been.

Andre will be very deeply missed.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 3:57 PM
Reply to  Gary Weglarz

Remember the tale of Óscar Romero, assassinated by a CIA asset in El Salvador. It only took the Catholic Church ten years before they grudgingly made him a saint. Going by that cautionary tale, in ten years Counter Putz will be canonising Vltchek. 

Gary Weglarz
Gary Weglarz
Sep 24, 2020 4:24 PM
Reply to  George Mc

“Counter Putz?” – I like that!

Arby
Arby
Sep 24, 2020 2:09 PM

This is kind of shocking. I can’t lie though. I have not been happy with Andres boosting of China and his dismissal of it’s awful, terrifying social credit system. Other than that, I’ve always enjoyed his writing and got something from it.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 10:42 PM
Reply to  Arby

Seconded.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 10:42 PM

The old “Enemy of my Enemy” fallacy…

Koba
Koba
Sep 24, 2020 1:47 PM

Damn. I enjoyed his articles. We will continue his work.

Apolline
Apolline
Sep 24, 2020 12:51 PM

Same for David Crowe. I watched videos where he looked very healthy.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Sep 24, 2020 2:55 PM
Reply to  Apolline

COVID-19 & The Infectious Myth w/ David Crowe, Premiered Jun 18, 2020
https://youtu.be/MFYGwNJgSMg

Apolline
Apolline
Sep 24, 2020 3:03 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Exactly.

Superbuggg
Superbuggg
Sep 24, 2020 8:31 PM
Reply to  Apolline

Wow… didn’t even know David Crowe had passed. It’s always sad, but what a maverick!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 3:46 AM
Reply to  Apolline

Apolline, David Crowe died from cancer. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that looking at his obituary and memorial service. I’m only vaguely aware of him but judging from reading his obituary and having a look at the video of his memorial service (yesterday) he was an amazing person.
Link to obituary and memorial service.
https://theinfectiousmyth.com/

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 3:54 AM
Reply to  Apolline

For all those in Green parties and with Green friends who swallow what the MSM put forward as science on COVID, I see that David Crowe co-founded the Green Party of Alberta in 1990. I’ll be pushing that to my Green friends.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Sep 24, 2020 12:50 PM

R.I.P. Andre Vltchek. Thank you for your dedication. Only the good die young …

(for example, just recently, 84 YO Silvio Berlusconi shook off the dreaded Italian strain of covid19 in just a few days … )

John Goss
John Goss
Sep 24, 2020 12:35 PM

Sad news indeed. Even if there are suspicious circumstances the likelihood of learning the truth are slim. For many years I worked with doctors and lawyers to try and get an inquest into the death of Dr. David Kelly. Despite numerous FOI requests key information has been locked away for 75 years. If it ever gets released we will all be dead and a few curious youths might ask: “Who was David Kelly?”

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 24, 2020 2:01 PM
Reply to  John Goss

The bad news: the 75 years and all locked deep seems to be the Intel template devised for JFK.

The good news: more young people I know seem to know more about him today than ever. And that wasn’t true 20 or 30 years ago.

And more state power has been expended to bury the truth than for anyone since Jesus of Nazareth. And still sparing no expense.

All in all, that may be pretty good company. For Jack, anyway!

John Goss
John Goss
Sep 25, 2020 11:02 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Yes. let’s hope I’m wrong. But it still does no justice to a man who stuck his neck out and told the truth. Telling the truth is frowned upon. Look at Julian Assange. And all this corona nonsense!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 25, 2020 8:29 AM
Reply to  John Goss

What is helpful to understand is that at high levels so very much conflict between groups and individuals and alleged calling out by an individual or group of another individual or group for malfeasance is staged, John.

Power is about controlling ALL narratives – it’s not about only controlling the mainstream narrative. No, no, no, no, no. They don’t maintain power just by controlling the mainstream narrative. They need to be like a mutant octopus with a stranglehold on all narratives – both the ones they invent themselves and the ones they anticipate will spring up among groups whose minds will go in one direction and groups whose minds will go in another – and they know exactly how to anticipate the narratives that will spring up amongst us, eg, that there will be people who will tend to believe that nuclear devices brought down the buildings or that the virus was manufactured in a Wuhan lab.

They 100% follow Sun Tzu’s Art of War in at least one aspect – and no doubt all but so far I’ve been too lazy to read it and try to work it out:

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

The thing is they understand us AND THEMSELVES so much better than we understand ourselves or them and for that reason they have us completely bamboozled. Generally, we really have no idea how they control our minds. I have some idea because I totally swallowed the truther-targeted propaganda to make us believe in real death and injury so I have that very visceral experience of realising that my mind was controlled to think a certain way. I didn’t have the same experience waking up to “inside job” in the first place because I’d never really paid attention to the 9/11 story so it wasn’t as if I felt my mind had been controlled to believe it, I just believed it because I had no idea how the power elite operate and the idea that they could get away with it was outside my paradigm of how the world works. When you have the visceral experience of seeing how your mind has been controlled to think a certain way it gives you a better insight.

They know that to maintain power they need to push out loads of propaganda that actually makes them look bad and it works for them so well because that seems so counterintuitive to us we don’t see it. We think of propaganda as all about making oneself look good – but when you’re interested in power, it doesn’t work trying to make it all about looking good unless you are a totalitarian state but you simply don’t need to actually be totalitarian to rule in a kind of totalitarian way if you propagandise with skill. They are not shy at all at making themselves look bad – either by telling the truth about themselves or lying because it suits their agenda. For example, they faked Collateral Murder, the video of the US soldiers shooting the Iraqi Reuters (always in on these things) journalists as a means to infiltrate Wikileaks. How better to infiltrate with ease than by pushing out something so seemingly incriminating? The fact is there were no repercussions for anyone with regard to the Collateral Murder video and everyone knows how barbaric soldiers are in war, right?, how they break the Rules of Engagement so while, superficially, the video might seem so terrible, it’s not actually against what we believe happens anyway. Some people even think that what the soldiers did was OK because they were, supposedly, acting within the Rules of Engagement. It’s so very easy for them to push our buttons.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/wikileaks-controlled-opposition.html

Isn’t it rather a coincidence that OPCW was set up 5 years before the invasion of Iraq? And as this 9/11 analyst, Angie, pointed out back in 2004: they could have planted WMDs to make their story more convincing, just as they could have made their 9/11 story way, way more convincing. Seriously? The 9/11 story? They didn’t need to have FOUR planes simultaneously flying around the best-defended airspace on earth, did they, one of which played very little role in the terror story? They didn’t need to bring down WTC-7 by perfect implosion on 9/11, did they? Anyone have a clue how they brought down WTCs 3, 4, 5 and 6 – which all came down after 9/11. No. WTC-7 was not a smoking gun so much as a Trojan horse. It was all about keeping us focused on the buildings and away from the more revealing faked planes because faked planes means faked deaths … and that’s a slippery slope to recognising that 9/11 wasn’t a false flag per se but a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise comprising numerous smaller exercises and drills pushed out as a real event … like so many other staged events. The big difference with 9/11 is that they targeted the truthers with propaganda to maintain their belief in real death and injury.

http://www.angieon911.com/id24.html
There’s also been another possible motive for the 9-11 attacks that I’ve speculated about since the beginning. Have you ever wondered why the 9-11 official story was so implausible and so sloppily put together? (you know, the simultaneous hijacking of four different planes by people armed with mere boxcutters, the suicide notes found in luggage that inadvertently didn’t make it on the planes, Arabic flight manuals left in cars in the airport, and a million other things they did which seem like obvious plants, or things they didn’t do or create which would have squelched many of the 9-11 skeptics early on.) It’s as if they want us to see through the whole thing. Could the perpetrators, in fact, want a 911 Truth Movement to flourish? And if so, why?

I believe David Kelly didn’t suicide or was murdered (just like Jeffrey Epstein and no doubt many others). The Daily Mail gives us ALL the clues including the highly Masonic 111 ml of water left in his bottle, the 29 tablets he took – 2+9 = 11, (they love their 11s and multiples). And how’s this: he allegedly suffered from dysphagia, a psychological condition where you can’t swallow pills and they tell us bold as brass that the pack of pills showed no fingerprints.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335961/Dr-David-Kelly-No-fingerprints-pack-pills-supposedly-overdosed-on.html

In Wikipedia we are told:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)

… [he] then cut his left wrist, severing his ulnar artery, with a pruning knife he had owned since his youth.

They put cause of death as: haemorrhage from incised wounds of the left wrist, in combination with co-proxamol ingestion and coronary artery atherosclerosis

Doncha love it?

The post-9/11 anthrax attacks were a complete fake and I have serious doubts about anthrax being an actual bioweapon – when has it ever been used? In fact, I have doubts about bioweapons at all. Am I horribly ignorant but I’m simply unaware of bioweapons ever having been used apart from allegedly small pox rubbed into blankets to wipe out Aborigines in Australia … but I have my doubts about that now because they just push out so very much propaganda it’s hard to know what’s true and what isn’t. Not that I don’t think they wouldn’t do such a thing … sure they’d do it of course … and worse … but whether they did or not or whether it would even work who knows? 

They rub it in our faces, John. It’s all smoke’n’mirrors designed to suppress the truth of what’s REALLY going on.

It is rather interesting how many people have died in recent times suspiciously in Istanbul, isn’t it? And I have to say just as with David Kelly I don’t believe all these people necessarily died.

White Helmets co-founder, James Le Mesurier, 
Journalist, Jamal Khashoggi
Journalist/activist, Jacky Sutton

John Goss
John Goss
Sep 25, 2020 11:08 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I’ve been to Istanbul, well 20 years ago. It was not like the rest of Turkey – very modern – and women were allowed in the streets. James Le Mesurier is an odd person to assassinate. He was one of the establishment. Are you sure they haven’t given him a new identity because of the White Helmets non-charitable aid to try to overthrow Assad?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 25, 2020 11:26 AM
Reply to  John Goss

Exactly what I’m suggesting, John. And so was David Kelly one of the establishment. Check out his background in Wikipedia. What they say about his death is ludicrous, right? Dysphagia, no fingerprints, cut himself with pruning knife he’d owned since his youth, bottle contained 111 ml water – why even mention any amount let alone 111ml, died of haemorrhage from incised wounds of the left wrist, in combination with co-proxamol ingestion and coronary artery atherosclerosis. Are they seriously going to say these things if his wife is not in on this “death”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 25, 2020 6:21 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

The press taunted in like fashion all the hypnotized, billions, in 2014 by reporting Robin Williams had “tried to kill himself before.”

The “before” — beyond being clickbait — “after further review” turned out to be only some minutes or hours immediately before he supposedly hanged himself (sitting in a chair using his belt — seems he’d be cleverer than that, from how we knew him).

Yet, disingenuously, it was reported as a second suicide “attempt”.

With a dull penknife, making a couple lateral scratches, really, barely any blood.

And there were many other absurd touches like that, as if they were phrased purposefully to see who was paying attention.

Not many at all!

I WAS, so add that to a plump dossier somewhere in the bowels of northern Virginia.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 8:17 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

“For example, they faked Collateral Murder, the video of the US soldiers shooting the Iraqi Reuters (always in on these things) journalists as a means to infiltrate Wikileaks. How better to infiltrate with ease than by pushing out something so seemingly incriminating? The fact is there were no repercussions for anyone with regard to the Collateral Murder video and everyone knows how barbaric soldiers are in war, right?, how they break the Rules of Engagement so while, superficially, the video might seem so terrible, it’s not actually against what we believe happens anyway.”

I’m totally with your premise regarding the sophistication of the kind of lies they use against us, and their need for Full Spectrum Dominance of the narratives but… it’s dangerous, I think, to use a “one size fits all” approach, after you’ve developed a controlling theory, and distort the conclusions you come to by trying to fit all evidence into the shape of that theory.

For example, in the case of some “Crisis Events,” deaths are faked because, given the circumstances, faking deaths will have been easier than getting real deaths “right” (as a narrative) and controlling the fallout from these real deaths. But in some events, I believe the deaths are real: The Bastards don’t care either way (because we’re “just cattle” to them), it’s merely a question of convenience. Yes, the “leak” of the “collateral murder” video was fake as a leak… it was released on purpose to make Wikileaks famous and give it credibility…not as a means to “infiltrate” Wikileaks (Wikileaks was an Intelligence Operation from the beginning, which is why major mainstream US news media, and Cass “Cog Diss” Sunstein, praised it, “surprisingly,” at its inception). The people in that “leaked” video, who appeared to die, really died… because, from the standpoint of The Bastards, why not? They probably chose the clip, to “leak”, after the fact; the people had already died, in any case, when they selected it. There must be hundreds of video clips like “collateral murder” stored somewhere… “collateral murder” was the most convenient to “leak” (and the least damaging to the ongoing Invasion and Occupation Business).

I believe, also, that even The Bastards (and their Think Tanks) follow a learning curve: for example, in 9/11 some real people died (the real death-numbers weren’t quite sufficient to produce the epic shock The Bastards wanted and the actual victims weren’t symbolic enough so they invented some and fed us the fake lives as fake deaths they could bolster the narrative with), and that led to the extremely “inconvenient” consequence of various family members going to court and/or pressing for further investigation of the Event. From that I believe The Bastards learned that it is, in many (but not all) cases, preferable to fake the “mass-deaths”; I consider Sandy Hook (if anyone remembers that) to be a good example. Faking the deaths in that case, after basically turning a “sleepy little town” into a “Potemkin Village” of assets, afforded them the luxury of complete control of the narrative.

The parts of any of these stories that appear to be “sloppy” could well be, in fact, merely and actually sloppy (everyone working for The Bastards isn’t perfect, and neither are The Bastards; they aren’t gods: they clearly made a huge mistake with the Greta Thunberg Theater and are currently scrambling to replace her with a much more sympathetic teen “activist”), but I often suspect some “sloppy” bits of these stories are there to excite and exasperate skeptical Parapolitical Critics like us, in order to push us to making bold statements in public, and deepen the gulf between us and the Gullible Dupes among our friends, family, colleagues and neighbors. Also (I fear to add): to make us more visible and easy to track.

I guess my basic point here is that every Event/ Narrative needs to be treated as its own case and analyzed with that in mind, and that to file them all under the conceptual rubric of “Fake Deaths” would mislead us. Well, all of our theories are largely informed guesswork anchored in the “information” we’re forced to read between the lines of, so there’s always that to remember…

But this part (below) of what you write is utterly to the point, and very important for us all to realize, in my opinion:

“Power is about controlling ALL narratives – it’s not about only controlling the mainstream narrative. No, no, no, no, no. They don’t maintain power just by controlling the mainstream narrative. They need to be like a mutant octopus with a stranglehold on all narratives – both the ones they invent themselves and the ones they anticipate will spring up among groups whose minds will go in one direction and groups whose minds will go in another – and they know exactly how to anticipate the narratives that will spring up amongst us, eg, that there will be people who will tend to believe that nuclear devices brought down the buildings or that the virus was manufactured in a Wuhan lab.

They 100% follow Sun Tzu’s Art of War in at least one aspect – and no doubt all but so far I’ve been too lazy to read it and try to work it out:
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

The thing is they understand us AND THEMSELVES so much better than we understand ourselves or them and for that reason they have us completely bamboozled. Generally, we really have no idea how they control our minds.”

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 8:31 AM

For a good example of a hybrid (fake deaths + real death) event, look at the “Gabby Giffords/ Tucson” event. It would appear that Giffords (with her “heroic recovery” narrative) wasn’t really shot and the “child victim” (with her convenient narrative details including, if I recall, her birth “on 9/11”) wasn’t real. But the Federal Judge (I’m doing this from memory)… Judge Roll (sp?)… was a real and very probably targeted death. Possibly. I looked into that one at the time and the major narrative mouthpiece of that “crisis/ recovery arc”, Suzie H., who had been part of Cornell’s “Human Ecology Dept” (or something like that)… who was supposedly shot along with her friend, the (I believe) invented child… had been running a blog, before the event, that “predicted” the event! This event shared lots of narrative DNA with all the subsequent many, many “gun violence” events orchestrated during BHO’s time in office.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 1:02 PM

I have to say Judge Roll looks as if he might have been very straight – went to Mass apparently every day and his face, to me, looks honest (though I would never trust my feelings there) – and it’s very easy to understand how a straight person in his position might be murdered. What is it that makes you think he really was murdered, Steven?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 11:35 AM

Thank you for the appreciation of my post and thanks so much for the term, Full-Spectrum Dominance, Steven. It seems vaguely familiar but somehow not caught my attention before. I will check it out now.

The Collateral Murder video was released on purpose to make Wikileaks famous and give it credibility…not as a means to “infiltrate” Wikileaks

How about both?

I lived next door to Julian’s father, John Shipton, for 13 years. John was in our place all the time and we have been good friends although the relationship has suffered over my telling him about Chelsea being intelligence and the murder video being faked because he won’t countenance my claims. I am quite certain – and I think the evidence of Julian’s state of health acts as very good evidence – that Julian is not intelligence, he’s just been duped massively … as we all have.

What we can infer happens is that as soon as opposition appears in the distant horizon, the octopus tentacles reach out to engulf it and this is what happened with Wikileaks. Sure, they’ll promote it because they, to a large degree, will take control of it and what is leaked to it … which probably includes many fabricated documents such as the Collateral Murder video. It’s a bit of a joke Wikileaks verifying the source of their documents because while the source may be “impeccable” the source, of course, can fake its own documents. They can’t control everything leaked to Wikileaks, presumably, but they’ll do their level best to control things as much as they possibly can.

The Collateral Murder video IS faked and I have done an analysis of the fakery here:
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/wikileaks-controlled-opposition.html

There is simply no evidence of anyone being killed or injured on 9/11, Steven, and I make my case below.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

… and that led to the extremely “inconvenient” consequence of various family members going to court and/or pressing for further investigation of the Event

Nope. These people are all fake and the Lawyers’ Committee into 9/11 Inquiry is just as fake as the 9/11 Commission which was even more fake than people realise as all the “9/11 family members” are fake.

It seems quite a number were simply made up and I came across this post in Let’s Roll just the other day which I need to add to my website. Fascinating.

http://letsrollforums.com//9-11-triplets-separated-t22106.html
The reader may or may not know that just prior to 9/11, Cantor Fitzgerald layed off 800+ employees. Their reason was electronic trading software which made them need less bond traders. Yet after releasing up to 500 of these employees which had been laid off by the providence of god (So they didn’t perish on 9/11) Cantor Fitzgerald did the unthinkable. They hired 200 NEW and YOUNG, VERY YOUNG bond traders. Most of these fresh new faces would be the ones enshrining Cantor Fitzgeralds memorial pages at CNN and Legacy.com. NOT their old timer employees which had been miraculously laid off just prior to 9/11 AND then graciously REHIRED right after 9/11.

If you accept eventually that death and injury were staged I’d like to enlist your support in getting that meme going in the comments because over three years ago I woke up to staged death and injury and I’ve had to endure the complete cobblers published above the line for three anniversaries now, namely, that 9/11 was “false flag” where it was, in reality, an “exercise”. I do not want the 20th anniversary to be a repeat of this cobblers.

9/11 was clearly a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise pushed out as a real event just like all the other terror psyops involving emergency response, media corporations and their reporters (the reporters were scripted), fake loved ones, witnesses and injured, corporations, banks and the list goes on.

I always try as much as I possibly can to make my claims based on good evidence. I approach every event as clear-sightedly as possible and try to make sure every single piece of available evidence supports my claim: I don’t try to make things fit – I make sure the evidence fits what I claim. What I’ve realised about myself where I think I differ from others is that I don’t WANT things to be this way or that way as much as I want to simply present the truth. I don’t WANT every instance of whatever to be a psyop, it’s simply that so many things are, especially at the moment.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Sep 26, 2020 12:28 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Talk about the firemen, Petra … 300 plus fake firemen.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 12:41 PM
Reply to  Victor G.

Here’s some massive firefighter anomalies to get your teeth stuck into, Victor. I must some kind of moron. I’d heard of Let’s Roll and I’m sure I’d been to the forums before. What a goldmine!

http://letsrollforums.com/happened-9-11-firemen-t24265.html

Victor G.
Victor G.
Sep 27, 2020 9:02 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

A goldmine indeed, Petra!
I saw dozens and dozens of fireman beneficiaries named. Presumably this means they, the beneficiaries, have had some sort of payout consequent the decease of a principal in the event.
And that’s where you can begin your true investigation. Take your own 5Gs, fly to NYC, and try to track down these payments; track down the beneficiaries. If you find none (even in a random sample) that’s an important result and will underpin your position no end. If you find one beneficiary, kindly seek to interview them. I imagine that by now those of us who presume to be in the know will be able to sniff out the BS should there be any. And, of course, one colluded “beneficiary” would be incredibly valuable.
5Gs is a good chunk but perhaps you fear it’s not enough to do serious investigation. In that case, I’m pretty sure folks from your link will be interested in forming a posse. You can simply forage them from home.
Unless I’ve misunderstood you, you assert that no person died at the WTC on 09/11/00. Please follow through and do some tangible investigative work. Thanks.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 1:13 AM
Reply to  Victor G.

I’m not an investigator, Victor, I’m an analyst and not the most diligent one – I don’t really like to do too much research. The reason I’m drawn to psyops is that all the evidence required to work out the fundamentals is at one’s fingertips.

To my mind it is not necessary to examine every claim of death on 9/11 to show that no one died. Taking multiple strands of evidence that favour staged death and injury and with zero to contradict it is sufficient for me. If it isn’t sufficient for you fine then either you do the investigative work yourself or you satisfy yourself that you don’t know how many people died on 9/11. As far as I’m concerned, there is zero evidence of anyone dying or being injured and much evidence against it so I go with, :”no one died or virtually no one died”.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Sep 28, 2020 8:10 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Oh Petra … the way it works is like this; if you make an assertion, the burden of proof is on you.
“Zero evidence” is an enormous assertion. Zero.
What you seem to do is waltz around the web, gather information from others who, like you, have done no investigation and “analyze” that info. I think what you’re doing is actually called “speculation”.
Or am I full of Bologna?

PS I know you enjoy getting the last word so I’ll be waiting to hear from you.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 8:36 AM
Reply to  Victor G.

I don’t think you read my last comment properly, Victor.

I have published five 10-point exercises providing EVIDENCE (and logic and reason) that favour five hypotheses over opposing hypotheses.

So I have put forward my EVIDENCE (and logic and reason) and asked for evidence (or whatever reasonable case) favouring the opposing hypotheses.

None has been forthcoming, including from you yourself Victor.

I do NOT assert there is zero evidence. I claim it on the basis of no evidence being presented to me that opposes my hypotheses. If there were, in fact, evidence surely someone would have presented it by now because I know there are quite a few people I’ve engaged with over these challenges who believe the opposing hypotheses, however, they haven’t managed to provide any evidence that favours the hypothesis they believe over mine.

The thing is, if an hypothesis is correct and has a number pieces of evidence that favour it over any opposing hypotheses then one wouldn’t expect to find any evidence favouring the opposing hypotheses, would one? It’s pretty straightforward. If we’ve lighted upon the correct hypothesis then there simply won’t be any evidence supporting any other hypothesis. It’s an impossibility. Any possible seeming evidence will surely be proven not to be evidence when more closely examined.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Sep 28, 2020 12:04 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Last word … Bologna!

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 2:18 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

9/11 was clearly a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise pushed out as a real event…”

Well, it was real to the extent that all those buildings actually imploded; if you’re saying that nobody was killed or injured, that implies that TFIC went to great lengths to ensure that that be the case (considering the magnitude of the collapses during business hours on a work week); are you suggesting that TFIC “don’t really want to hurt anyone”? And why would they bother to fake the “collateral murder” vid when people are drone-killed so commonly during these Invasion/ Occupation/ Terraforming campaigns? Are all the NATO atrocities faked?

Also: re: Wikileaks: well, if it’s a combination honey-pot, limited-hangout, misdirection device put in place by Intelligence, why would it need to be “infiltrated”? And Assange, as we know, got into serious trouble in his “Mendax” youth… yet somehow walked. It appears he was compromised early and was either entirely witting or was arrogant enough to think he could play both sides of the game to his own ends.

I totally agree with the Utter Saturation of our “culture” with Lies and Fakes and Psyops of every kind. I just don’t see a compelling argument for the “nobody died” meme. Again: I think it’s a mixed bag. That strikes me as the mist reasonable (and Occam-compliant) reading of the “info” we’re given to parse. Not that we’ll ever know completely…



Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 2:19 PM

(oops, don’t know why that all came out in “bold” font; I wasn’t being emphatic or anything)

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 2:55 PM

Steven, I don’t concern myself with motives and whether the TFIC care or don’t care, I look at the evidence.

9/11
They admit to part-evacuation of the twin towers, right? And no one questions complete evacuation of WTC-7.

What’s the big deal? Instead of part-evacuation, it was complete evacuation and it wasn’t exactly in office hours. You need to keep in consideration they had complete control of the operation. Complete control – which is, of course, the way they like it. Everything is controlled. The first “plane strike” was at 8:46 and many people start work at 9am. Also, they could have prevented people going up to their floors with all kinds of reasons, even saying that they were worried about a possible attack as they’d had word a plane had gone off-course or something of that nature. We’re also told a number of floors were empty. I’ve read there were subway drills that would have delayed people too. And, of course, once the first plane struck, very easy to stop people going into the South tower, right?

They simply do not kill people in psyops unless they want them killed. It is so easy for them to stage deaths, they’re very, very experienced at it and when you look at the visual evidence for death and injury it’s a complete joke.

It’s really very, very important, Steven, to get that death and injury were staged as it’s clear they have spent millions on propaganda persuading the truthers that death and injury were real … but there is zero evidence that favours real over staged. There is not a single skerrick of evidence that does that. There is simply no reason at all to think that anyone died or was injured.

Think of all the emergency response and media that needed to be in on it. How would they be OK with just “some” people being killed. No! It’s just not the MO and there was absolutely no reason not to fake all the deaths. They have their ways.

I think it’s really important to distinguish what KIND of event 9/11 was. It was an “exercise” not a false flag and not some hybrid event although I will allow that they may well happen, I don’t know.

Collateral Murder

And why would they bother to fake the “collateral murder” vid when people are drone-killed so commonly during these Invasion/ Occupation/ Terraforming campaigns?

My observation tells me that regardless of whether they could use real material, they prefer to fake things. It’s always about duping us. Regardless, bottom line, the evidence clearly shows that the video is faked. They have stitched genuine pieces of audio together over faked footage. It’s as clear as day. There are about 13 callsigns in the video. How could there be 13 callsigns from two Apache helicopters who do not seem to be communicating with anyone on the ground as Ethan McCord tells his fake story.

Are all NATO atrocities faked?

I’m sure they’re not but the Srebrenica massacre was.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/srebrenica-massacre.html

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 3:33 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra:

My observation tells me that regardless of whether they could use real material, they prefer to fake things.”

Hmmm. Conversely, my observations tell me that “They” (are largely if not entirely comprised of psychopaths and) are awfully inclined toward (and would appear to enjoy) killing. Do you think Hiroshima/ Nagasaki were faked? (I know some do; I don’t)

Well, we can agree to disagree, certainly! And we agree more than we disagree, so, that’s a net “plus”.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 4:15 PM

We can agree to disagree, Steven, but can I ask you to look at the evidence before deciding that something is faked or isn’t rather than judging by motivation or whether the power elite care about killing people or not. I have to say it does drive me rather crazy when people say to me – and it happens a lot when I speak of staged death and injury – “But they wouldn’t care about killing those people.” If I thought they cared I would have said from the start of my awakening to “inside job” that they didn’t kill the people but no I completely believed they killed them for four whole years despite awakening to many other staged events. It’s not about caring, not caring or whatever, it’s about the evidence.

Also, for goodness sake, HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN 9/11? It had to be loads and loads right? They are NOT going to kill people in this situation apart from all the other reasons they wouldn’t do it. If they’re only going to partly fake death that would mean some fake loved ones and some real loved ones. How much control over the story do you think they’d have with real loved ones going nuts? No, no, no, no, no. They want control of the story first and foremost and real death and injury doesn’t allow that. Loved ones of people murdered by the state are not all nice and polite like the Jersey Widows and Bob McIlvaine. It’s been 19 years. Are you kidding me?

Hiroshima/Nagasaki
About a year ago someone emailed me about these being fake and it took about 5 minutes to come around to the idea. Yes, they were faked. I keep meaning to do a page on it but somehow don’t.

Think about it:
The two bombs were called Fat Man and Little Boy. The plane that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima was named after the pilot’s mother, Enola Gay. Seriously? The pilot is going to name the plane that’s going to kill all those people after his mother. Interestingly, the plane designated for Nagasaki, “Boxscar” had a 77 on it just like the flight number of the phantom plane at the Pentagon.

Are you aware of the book on it?
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Object-Exploding-Nuclear-Weapons/dp/1545516839

All these events have ludicrous miracle survivor stories. Check this one out.
https://www.bluearmy.com/the-incredible-story-of-the-miracle-at-hiroshima/

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 4:44 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

“We can agree to disagree, Steven, but can I ask you to look at the evidence before deciding that something is faked or isn’t rather than judging by motivation or whether the power elite care about killing people or not.”

Petra, I’m quite a bit older than you and have been at this for a very, very long time. I have, literally, hundreds of books in the part of my library dedicated to the general topic. The “proof” you cite against the reality of Hiroshima/ Nagasaki is not the strongest, logically. (And, of course, phony stories attached to both events don’t, by default, invalidate the events).

“Also, for goodness sake, HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN 9/11? It had to be loads and loads right? They are NOT going to kill people in this situation…”

How many are involved in any major war crime? Were the deaths of Iraqi civilians faked, too?

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 4:54 PM

Think of all the emergency response and media that needed to be in on it. How would they be OK with just “some” people being killed. No! It’s just not the MO and there was absolutely no reason not to fake all the deaths. They have their ways.”

It’s called “need to know”. Most of the people who were involved in 9/11 believed what they were told to believe about what was happening. Do you think every Yankee military paranoiac, from privates to officers, at the height of the Cold War was in on the hoax? Of course not. Only the string-pullers know, for a fact, that these things are Theater. The entire point of the Intelligence Industry is to operate in secret: do you think half the country has “Top Secret” clearance? Disinfo is the coin of the realm. The Kapo-class… far from the top of the pyramid but clearly not the bottom… are, traditionally, Useful Idiots.

The middle of the pyramid should not be confused with the pyramid’s top.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 1:25 PM

Sorry, Steven, I hate the “how many people” argument and I don’t know why I used it.

Let me be more specific.

I think the exchange below between Brian Williams, MSNBC News Anchor and David Restuccio, FDNY EMS Lieutenant about WTC-7 after its collapse clearly shows that they were in on it and were scripted, don’t you? Their exchange actually appears at the end of a video production of a song set to the music of Free Fallin’ by Tom Petty in which a number of other journalists allude to controlled demolition. Although their words are not quite so obvious as the ones below I tend to think they’re also scripted. In psyops they like to control everything, right, you don’t expect them to have reporters speaking candidly in these events, saying whatever occurs to them. So at least these two guys and I’d say we can guess most others, if not all, are in on the operation. Do you think these reporters would be OK with the callous and cold-blooded killing of however many fellow citizens when they know full well that the deaths are easy to fake apart from anything else?

“Can you confirm it was No 7 that just went in?” [“Went in” is a term used in controlled demolition that comes from the fact that the buildings fall in on themselves.]

“Yes, sir.”

“And you guys knew this was comin’ all day.”

“We had heard reports that the building was unstable and that eventually it would either come down on its own or it would be taken down.”

I think it’s very clear that 9/11 was an exercise and there is zero evidence of anyone being killed or injured. If you think that without being able to know for sure about all the people who allegedly died means you need to pull back from calling it an exercise fair enough.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 1:49 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra!

“So at least these two guys and I’d say we can guess most others, if not all, are in on the operation. Do you think these reporters would be OK with the callous and cold-blooded killing of however many fellow citizens…”

With all due respect, I think you’re falling for a fallacy in parapolitical analysis that is common to us non-monsters: you’re judging the psychology of these people as though it were similar to your own. Which, yes: the good news is you clearly aren’t a psychopath. Bad news: you will not be very good at figuring out the behaviors of psychopaths.

Forget, for the moment, 9/11. Think about the kids who were deliberately starved to death, in Iraq, by Maddy Albright and the Bush/Clinton cabal (to send a message to former business partner Saddam and/or destabilize his regime). Remember when Albright was, famously, interviewed about that and asked by the (no doubt complicit) reporter if it was “worth it”, those agonizing deaths (of children)… and Maddy said “Yes!“?

Think about all the peasants in Vietnam but to death by Napalm. Or just by run-of-the-mill flamethrowers.

You think those deaths were faked, too?

This “There were No Deaths, it was all Faked” theory, as applied to every event in History… seems like some kind of fascinating new postmodern variant of political Disneyism (with its friendly bears and singing lions and twinkly old grandpas Reagan, Thurmond and LBJ).

One of the biggest proponents of “There were No Deaths, it was all Faked” theory is Miles Mathis, a flamboyant character I’ve been trying to figure out for years: Slick Shill or Clever Kook? Miles will produce a brilliant nugget of well-reasoned info in one paragraph and hit you with preposterous mega-nonsense in the next (e.g.: not as pedestrian as the “Paul is Dead” nuts, Miles perversely claims “John is Alive!” among other things). Miles’ unique shtick: the weight he gives to genealogical analysis, proving that just about every celebrity you’ve heard of can be traced back to a sinister ruling family in the 11th, 12th or 13th century. Which may, in some cases, be more or less accurate (though perhaps less than explanatory)… but the time Mathis really made me laugh out loud was when he traced a Black celebrity back to one of these clandestinely powerful Venetian bloodlines, seemingly unaware of how Black Americans usually came by their Eurocentric surnames! In Miles Mathis’ parapolitical worldview, Violent Death and Racism don’t exist! How sweet.

There may be a psychological defense mechanism at work here: people (even the most clued-in) would find it infinitely comforting, I’m sure, to be told that all of the apparent blood is really just ketchup in the geopolitical school play. But that’s just not the case. Quite a bit of the blood is real, as are the screams. To claim otherwise is surely in the Killers’ best interests, no?

Petra, do you think The School of the Americas is fake, then, as well…?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 2:10 PM

You’re a fast writer, Steven. Wow!

While I might have a suspicion that this or that event is fake I won’t claim it until I look at the evidence.

I shall drop any “do you think this or that person” but simply stick to the evidence, that is, there is zero evidence for death and injury and clear evidence of its fakery on 9/11. That is all I need. If you need more, fair enough. And while it may seem that way I really never judge anything by thinking “this number of people wouldn’t” or “that person wouldn’t”, I make my judgements by the evidence.

Yes, Miles Mathis is intriguing. There’s another site Piece of Mindful where they think everyone is fake including Paul McCartney. I’m like that is ridiculous!

While I think a lot of things are fake I don’t think everything is, Steven, and when I do it’s always by examination of the evidence … which is never limited to a few photos that I believe are photoshopped.

One thing I believe is the astounding achievement of astronauts landing on the moon … and then I wonder am I crazy? They’ve faked everything else but managed to land on the moon back in 1969? But I think the evidence for it is all good.

I’m afraid I have to confess ignorance. I hadn’t heard of The School of the Americas and just looked it up now … so no opinion on that.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 2:24 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

One thing I believe is the astounding achievement of astronauts landing on the moon …”

Ha ha. No comment, Petra. No comment.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 2:41 PM

Wait a minute… has the penny dropped? I remember debating about the “Apollo” meme, here at OffGuard, with several vociferously pro-Apollo avatars a few years back… and how one of them, on the one hand, believed that the Grenfell Towers fire-deaths were a “psyop” and completely faked (no deaths!?)… while, on the other hand (the most breathtaking cognitive dissonance of that year, for me), she utterly bought into US Gov’s Cold War Apollo spectacle! And I remember thinking: some of this person’s comments are so illogical that this can’t be real. Erm… was that you? It was, wasn’t it? Laugh.

Hmmmmm…

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 27, 2020 7:30 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

The School of the Americas is a festering boil on the larger boil of USAmerican foreign policy. So, instead of lancing it, they just rebranded, to fester anew. SOP.

[GEN’L DISCLAIMER: for those who read my efforts as a plan to infiltrate the Hourly Beast –occasionally known as The CIA & “Known” Associates– that is mostly an endeavor of diminishing returns: quite frankly my efforts have always been to find ways to exfiltrate from ‘the world’. That is simply an aboriginally (Catholic) Christian mission, no more no less. In its purest sense.

But even trickier perhaps than infiltration, of all kinds. In any case, there are those who prefer the prudence of socially distancing themselves from the one, if not the other. ]

Admin1
Admin
Admin1
Sep 26, 2020 5:04 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Just checking – are you claiming Hiroshima and Nagasaki were NOT destroyed?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 6:35 AM
Reply to  Admin1

Can I just check something with you first, Admin, before I answer your question?

Which hypothesis (if either) do you think the following facts favour? If you don’t think there’s any favouring of a particular hypothesis perhaps you can explain why. Of course, I’m not suggesting the facts PROVE anything at all, because obviously if there were clear physical evidence of a nuclear bomb having been dropped they would mean nothing at all, I’m just asking which hypothesis do you think they favour putting aside consideration of any other evidence?

H1 Nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred as we are told.

H2 No nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki occurred and they let us know with things that do not seem consistent with the seriousness of such events and strange anomalies, the “letting us know” being a phenomenon we see commonly in staged events such as the cat and two guinea-pigs in the Skripal story and the popping out of the other side of the South tower by the second plane on 9/11.

1. The pilot named the plane he allegedly flew to drop the nuclear bomb over Hiroshima that allegedly killed at least 80,000 people, Enola Gay, after his mother.

2. The Hiroshima bomb was named Little Boy.

3. The plane that was allegedly flown to drop the bomb on Nagasaki was named Bockscar (sometimes called Bock’s Car) after Captain Frederick Bock although, they tell us, it wasn’t really his plane it was just named after him as Captain Charles W. Sweeney was the pilot who dropped the bomb and had flown Bockscar for 10 training and practice missions.

https://www.lanl.gov/museum/news/newsletter/2016-08/science-question-bockscar.php

4. There is an image of a boxcar with wings on rail tracks on the Nagasaki plane. (We also see the number 77 which might trigger, in the minds of some people at least, a connection to the flight number of the phantom plane we see no images of that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon.)

5. We are told (note two different spellings of Sweeney):

Normally, Sweeney and his crew piloted an aircraft called The Great Artiste, and this plane provided the instrumentation and observation support for the drop on Hiroshima.

For the second mission to Japan, Sweeny and his crew were chosen to deliver Fat Man while Bock and crew were chosen to provide observation support. Weather considerations caused the fight to be moved from August 11 to August 9. This didn’t leave enough time to move the complex instrumentation equipment from The Great Artiste to Bockscar, so the two crews traded planes with each other for the historic flight.

6. A puzzler is presented to us by the explanation that the two crews traded planes when already we have been told that “it wasn’t really Bock’s plane” and the designated pilot, Charles Sweeney, had done 10 training and practice missions in Bockscar.

7. The name of the plane that was to provide observation support to the Nagasaki bomb-dropping plane was called The Great Artiste. (Already indicated but just clearly identifying it as a fact.)

8. The Nagasaki bomb was named Fat Man.

9. We are told a miracle survivor story about Catholic priests being protected from the bomb that stretches credulity beyond its limits and we know that unbelievable miracle survivor stories are a feature of psyops including 9/11, the current COVID, Las Vegas and Christchurch.
https://www.bluearmy.com/the-incredible-story-of-the-miracle-at-hiroshima/

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 2:05 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Petra:

Not a single one of those counter-examples invalidates the theory that atomic weapons were used, by the US, against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These factoids may well be evidence that the propaganda surrounding the events was garbled, or that the people involved had sick senses of humor, or that the Internet is a garbled source of info… but what you need to prove, I should think, is that A) nuclear weapons aren’t possible or B) whether they are possible or not, they are prohibitively difficult to manufacture and deploy and/or C) US Gov would never, under any circumstances deploy such a weapon against people. Your list doesn’t come close to meeting any of those three fundamental challenges. I think you have to think these things through to a further degree of thoroughness. No “mainstream Normie citizen” of 30-years-plus, with a decent education, would, for an instant, take these arguments seriously.

PS Yes, obviously: the Church would scramble in to cook up a “miracle” narrative in there somewhere if it could (I’m sure there were “9/11 miracles” too). That has nothing to do with whether or not those bombs went off, on that day, as described. Though I’ve often wondered if J. Robert Oppenheimer really said that stuff he supposedly said on the occasion…

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 2:22 PM

Steven, I am NOT putting forward my points as evidence against nuclear weapons. Of course not! However, the anomalies are exactly the type we see in psyops generally and the BS miracle survivor story is a very common hallmark. Nevertheless, they cannot be used as evidence, of course.

Unfortunately, I haven’t marshalled my argument so I need to do that. I read the book below (but haven’t maintained its key points in my mind) and it was very compelling. You’ll find 19 out of the 20 reviews praise it highly, some of which are written by people who claim they were skeptical before reading it.
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Object-Exploding-Nuclear-Weapons/dp/1545516839

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 2:53 PM

Just to say we always have to consider that the media story must PROVE itself too. It is not the default! If there is any reason to doubt a story (and my facts – they are not factoids, they are facts! – cast doubt on the story) it must equally prove itself. So they told us they dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki but why, a priori, should be believe that story?

Mushroom clouds?

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 2:58 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Har! Sorry, Petra. After your “Apollo” comment (rather a non-sequitur, wasn’t it?) I figured one or two things out. I’m going to waste my time more pleasurably this Sunday afternoon.

Cheers!

S

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 3:13 PM

I mention the moon landings simply because I want to show I don’t think everything’s fake, that’s all, but I get the impression you think they are.

I wonder what you mean by “I figured one or two things out”. I get the feeling you think I’m being dishonest or something similar. I’m not.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 3:00 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Just to say we always have to consider that the media story must PROVE itself too”

Sez Apollo Gurl

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 3:49 AM

Yes, Steven, says Apollo Girl although I readily admit I have little knowledge of the moon landings – I believe I simply have sufficient to recognise they happened and find any debunking doesn’t stand up. Also, when you see people arguing about the moon landings those who support their reality are always so much more obviously knowledgeable and are always able to debunk the less knowledgeable debunkers no sweat.

But guess what? Despite recognising that astounding achievement, amongst all the mindblowing fakery I did manage to find a psyop CONNECTED to the moon landings. Yes, I wouldn’t be Psyop Girrrrrrrrl if I didn’t find a psyop somewhere in there would I?

My identical twin and I have argued beyond the point of insanity about the moon landings and I’ve also argued about them with a couple of friends. It occurred to me that these three people simply disbelieve everything from government/authority without necessarily looking carefully at the evidence and it also occurred to me that a significant number of others fall into the same profile.

So I wondered, Steven, I wondered.

Could it be that the perps might target this disbelievers-by-default group to encourage their disbelief in the moon landings in order that when they recognise a genuine psyop such as 9/11 they are laughed at as “crazy conspiracy theorists” in a similar manner to the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

Well, blow me down, Steven, I could hardly believe my eyes when I went to my trusty source for psyop clues, Wikipedia, and looked up Bill Kaysing, the first person to come out and say the moon landings were a hoax. This is what I found:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Kaysing

Kaysing’s daughter, Wendy L. Kaysing, has stated that along with Kaysing’s nephew, Dietrich von Schmausen (doncha love it?), she hopes to one day write a book about her father … [with the] working title, … Life and Times with “Wild” Bill Kaysing, the Fastest Pen in the West.[18]

Here is the first part of a talk, Alien Disclosure, by Professor Dietrich von Schmausen of the North American Institute for Xenobiological Research (of which no record outside this video).

Oh my goodness! My paranoid conspiracy-theory thought was validated by the CIA jumping out at me like an evil jack-in-the-box with a ridiculous book title and silly name. 

The opening line from Bill who allegedly worked for Rocketdyne, the company that developed the Saturn V rocket engines, in this interview is:
“The jet of a lunar module lander, the lunar lander would have created an enormous crater. It would have scoured the moon’s surface, it would have tossed up rocks, sand, everything and created a crater so large that maybe the entire lunar lander could have sunk into it.”

This is ludicrous. There is no sand on the moon and if Bill had worked for Rocketdyne he would know the exhaust from the lunar lander would have made only the barest of impacts. See Why is there no blast crater under the lunar module?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 3:04 PM

Also, just to say although my comment was addressed to Admin not to you what I ask in the comment is which hypothesis is favoured.

You see what you’ve done. You’ve taken one point and said “Yes obviously the Church would scramble in to cook up a “miracle” narrative.” Really? Does the Church cook up miracle survivor stories for every big event like this?

The ludicrous miracle survivor is a hallmark of psyops so it perfectly fits the psyop hypothesis whereas it doesn’t fit real nuclear bombing hypothesis perfectly. The psyop hypothesis is favoured.

All my points favour psyop, right? They ALL favour psyop. They aren’t proof, of course, and should there be physical evidence of a nuclear bomb they mean nothing as I said but the thing is ALL 9 POINTS FAVOUR THE PSYOP HYPOTHESIS. That’s a simple fact.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 10:16 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Yes, tell us more about the “psyops,” Flaxgirl! Laugh. Here you are, a few years back, “debunking” the Grenfell Tower fire, applying Super Logic to illuminating effect:

“flaxgirl

 Jun 26, 2017 1:32 PM

 Reply to  StAug

I do not see evidence of injury or death other than easily faked body bags as I said in above comment. And I see zero distraughtness – which I would expect to be extremely manifest. There’s also lots of bizarre crisis acting which I’ve put links to in other comments. I have simply not seen what I consider evidence of the alleged event.

Show me something that couldn’t have been staged and I’ll pay attention.”

Now, I know you’re not doing it on purpose (professionally, I mean, ie: you’re not working for an Agency) , but when so many Crisis Events are absolutely preposterous, and there really is blatant evidence of theatrical staging at the very cores of these events…

… (e.g.: several commentators defended the bizarrely glib/ jaunty behavior of “Robbie Parker,” at the press conference a day after his beloved and very young daughter had supposedly been slaughtered with an assault rifle, by saying “Everyone doesn’t handle grief the same way”… but that was just it: a dozen Sandy Hook “parents” were “handling grief” the same uniformly bizarre way, as though they belonged to a cult: they were acting uniformly perky, chirpy, quippy and “resilient” (the keyword of that failed social engineering campaign)…

.. you can only seriously and damagingly muddy the waters when you come along claiming that “everything is fake/ no deaths” on events notably lacking in preposterous levels of “fakeness” (what exactly jumps out at you in photographs and newsreels of the absolutely flattened and charred, post-bomb Hiroshima? If an atom bomb didn’t do that, whatever did, in one go, is just as awful and vaporized those people just as thoroughly). What good are you doing by treating this as a sort of parlor game in which you just spin theories on the flimsiest “evidence” possible? You’re just helping to add to the chaos of the noise-to-signal ratio. You’re turning earnest attempts to try to figure things out into a total mess.

On Sept. 26th of this year, as Petra, you wrote:

“I lived next door to Julian’s father, John Shipton, for 13 years. John was in our place all the time and we have been good friends although the relationship has suffered over my telling him about Chelsea being intelligence and the murder video being faked because he won’t countenance my claims. I am quite certain – and I think the evidence of Julian’s state of health acts as very good evidence – that Julian is not intelligence, he’s just been duped massively … as we all have.

Which is interesting for two reasons: 1) here you are claiming “everything is staged; everything is faked; no deaths” and yet you’re supporting the Julian Assange narrative (despite seeing Chelsea Manning as “intelligence” and the (“Collateral Murder”)  “murder video being faked”), and claiming that Assange’s “state of health acts as very good evidence… that Julian is not intelligence”. Yet back in 2017, as (the Apollo Moon Landing Believer)  “Flax Girl,” you never mentioned your surprisingly close connection to the Julian Assange case (well, not in our dozens of exchanges) but you were very, very busy claiming that nobody died in the Grenfell Towers fire. Well, if I didn’t know better I would say that that sounds like a reflection of Company Policy regarding Limited Hangouts as they are deployed in “cognitive dissonance” and shit-stirring efforts on “the Internets” .

But I don’t suspect you of that, Petra. I suspect you of a lack of seriousness. And that entails the unpardonable sin of wasting everyone’s time. After some Googling I see you’ve been accused of it before:

 “OR you know exactly what you’re doing, i.e. exercising an intent to sow confusion and promulgate stupidity as part of adding to the legion of mindless “conspiracy theorists” it’s easy for the established to laugh off. If you’re for real, get off that ambiguity fence by putting in some hard work and actually learning your Sunday craft or take your subversion elsewhere. And most of all get off the Occam’s razor bullshit, at least until you learn what it is and, particularly, its uses, misuses and abuses.”

I’m not nearly as irritated as that avatar, so I just suggest: think the theories through, first. Work out the details. Resist the urge to come up with theories “5 minutes” into viewing the evidence and then bombing the comments with kilometers of flimsy argumentation.

You should watch this; watch the interviews with survivors. Watch the people closely as they speak. Learn to tell the difference been the Historically Fake and the Historically Abused.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 12:23 AM

Forgive me Steven if I don’t watch the 43 Grenfell minute film.

Following are snippets of the same woman being interviewed. I couldn’t help noticing in the first snippet she’s holding a mask! How ’bout them apples.
https://153news.net/watch_video.php?v=8SW28BWKY2Y9

She says that people were putting their hands on the windows and:
“… even some people throwing their children, throwing themself from the window even a lady trying to get clothes, tying them up to escape down but we told her, “don’t do that” because there’s no one down there to protect you.”

“I told people to get off, to jump, to control their kids, wanted to get mattresses, wanted to get sheets, police were pushing us away, fathers was coming from the prayer.”

“A friend of mine told me it was a friend of her neighbour her refrigerator blew off.”

“The fire happened from the outside in.”

What we see in this woman’s speech is so very, very typical of psyops.

Gobbledygook: “to control their kids, wanted to get mattresses, wanted to get sheets”

Contradictions:
We told her “don’t do that”/ I told people to get off, to jump.
Fire started from refrigerator / started from the outside in.

Strange wording: blew off instead of blew up.

Incredible and no evidence: “some people throwing their children,” “throwing themself”

There are 16 other videos analysing the hoax that was the Grenfell Tower fire on 153news.net. There were absolutely loads at the time on YouTube but, sadly, all deleted.
https://153news.net/search_result.php?query=grenfell&type=videos&cbsearch=

Steven, if you have any specific clear evidence that anyone was injured or died in this event or any other reason to believe that it wasn’t a fire in an evacuated building, please let me know what it is.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 28, 2020 10:33 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

“Forgive me Steven if I don’t watch the 43 Grenfell minute film.”

Petra, why on Earth would you? Your only interest is in posting Disinfo by the kilometer. No way am I A) clicking any of your links B) engaging with you after this.

Not sure what’s “in it for you” but you’re the one who has to face yourself in the mirror, every morning, so I guess that’s between the two of you.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 11:21 AM

The video I post to is 1:41 minutes long. If you’d posted a short video for me to watch I would have watched it but 43 minutes about an event that I’ve studied in quite a bit of detail is not really reasonable especially when you give no detail about it what it contains that’s so compelling. They have bogus sob story films for loads of events.

What I’ve done is put the significant text of that 1:41 minute video I posted with an analysis of the text. I went to much more trouble than you did to make my case, however, if you wish to give no consideration to that trouble, if you are so committed to your belief in in the Grenfell Tower fire occurring in an unevacuated building that you won’t bother to watch the short video or consider my analysis that is your prerogative.

I went back to our exchanges in June 2017 and saw that I’d posted quite a few videos (now deleted – now WHY would that be I wonder, Stephen, WHY would they censor them?) with analyses that showed serious anomalies. I see there that you simply ignored what didn’t suit your belief. I made my case perfectly well back then – you ignored it then and you’re ignoring it now.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 12:35 AM

Julian Assange
I didn’t mention my connection to Julian (actually met him once) before because I was being discreet. I didn’t really want to air that I had an issue with John trying to persuade him of the fakery of Chelsea and the Collateral Murder video. Is that a good enough reason for you Steven or something still suspicious about it?

What is wrong with the argument of Julian’s health? I think it’s pretty compelling myself. I’m not sure what you believe – do you believe he is an agent? The thing is it’s the only argument I have because I simply don’t know that much about Wikileaks or Julian, despite the personal connection. Didn’t really discuss Julian or Wikileaks all that much with John. I just cottoned onto Chelsea and the video when I saw a glamorous photo of Chelsea which raised my suspicions and then I started to do some digging.

The moon landings
What evidence do you have that they didn’t happen?

This is my case for them happening
http://occamsrazormoonlandings.weebly.com/

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 28, 2020 10:30 AM

Hey MODS: Erm… how the FUCK did They (whoever They are) switch the video I posted… to the video I now see linked above? This is the one (below I originally posted (and if the video linked in my above-comment switches back to the original, in the interim, the one I’m seeing now, above, is titled “Rachel Speaks Out-9 September”… a video I’ve seen posted elsewhere in the threads but that I’ve never watched). So here is the original (and MODS, you might consider installing a different security app! laugh):

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 28, 2020 1:02 PM

So, this morning, after posting the video clip displayed at the end of the post at— https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/23/in-memoriam-andre-vltchek/#comment-247144

…I noticed that a different video had been put in its place; a few hours later the original video was returned. Is the OFFGUARDIAN being fucked with, or is that a “natural” glitch? Are we being Gaslighted? Luckily, I screenshotted the original posting (not out of foresight, in this case, but for a post on my blog):

https://wp.me/a555eV-3aj

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 27, 2020 12:09 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I have to disagree with you Petra about the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. Fortunately there were survivors, who were children who wrote about their experiences. I had such a book many years ago, but unfortunately it became rag eared, and was lost in one of my house moves. But the memory of those children’s horror stories stayed with me for over 50 years. Just as the napalming of thousands of Vietnamese…
The nuking of the WTC’s on 911 did happen, and thousands of people died. Their bone fragments were found miles away on apartment windowsills and rooves. The exploding missiles were a distraction. Many people gained that day, not least the Mafia who had all their incriminating documents burned, and Silverstein who gained millions in Insurance money, and the Banks. You know that Billions in Gold and precious metals were retrieved in the biggest gold heist in history from beneath WTC5?
and Precious metals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmtCBn8CNh0

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 27, 2020 3:32 AM
Reply to  Margaret

9/11

The exploding missiles were a distraction.

The 9/11 story is ALL about distraction and lies, Margaret, including nuclear. It’s all smoke’n’mirrors. They TOLD us there were bone fragments. They TOLD us many many things but lying underneath all the magic propaganda dust is a very simple story, to wit:

On 9/11 buildings were damaged and destroyed by controlled means. The planes were faked and death and injury were staged. 9/11 was a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise pushed out as a real event like all their terror psyops: Sandy Hook, Manchester bombing, and many, many others. It was not a “false flag” per se – false flag is a misleading propaganda term. As Francis Richard Conolly says in his film, JFK to 9/11 Everything is a Rich Man’s Trick, which first woke me up to how the world is run:

All terror is fake.

I have a webpage on on staged death and injury on 9/11 but I’ve only just very recently discovered the Let’s Roll forums (I’ve added their links to my webpage now).

On one page we see an explanation for how they faked the Cantor Fitzgerald deaths – “letting go” of lots of employees just before 9/11 (new technology supposedly making them redundant), hiring lots of new ones (probably made up) over 9/11 and then reinstating the old ones.

There is also a page on the anomalies on the firefighters including deaths within ladders. Instead of whole ladders of firefighters being killed just one or two are killed in each ladder which doesn’t make sense – they’d all be together right? Plus the distribution by seniority of those who died is top heavy. An explanation for this is that those in senior positions probably took early retirement and went off to live somewhere else. Other anomalies are also pointed out.

Where are the firefighters jumping up and down about their 343 colleagues murdered by the State? Where are their loved ones jumping up and down?

Every single skerrick of evidence supports Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise over false flag. Every single piece.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/3000-dead-and-6000-injured-a-lie.html

My latest thought is about WTC-7. The question is rather WHY they brought the building down, not WHAT brought it down. Why did they bring down WTC-7 in a SHOWCASE implosion when we have no clue about how WTCs 3, 4, 5 and 6 eventually came down? The reason is it was part of the propaganda campaign to focus truthers on the building destructions and away from the faked planes … because faked planes means faked deaths and they don’t want any attention on faked deaths, right? The plane faked deaths is a slippery slope to questioning all the deaths.

The reason they can offer the perfect implosion of WTC-7 is that they know the vast majority of the population will be completely ignorant of it (I certainly was), not pay it any attention or with remarkable blindness manage to see that fire brought the building down. It’s the old Emperor’s New Clothes par excellence.

What you need to keep in mind, Margaret, is that they don’t just bluff us they double-bluff as and triple-bluff us. It’s red-herrings all over the show. They’re like magicians. They’re always one trick ahead. A suicide looking suspiciously like a murder? You must think further than that. They know we’re suspicious and they cater to our suspicions.

I’ll respond on nuclear weapons in another comment.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 2:06 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Planes were not used on 911. That was the script used to distract us.
Missiles were used, and the video below could shine some light on it for you?
It is 2 hours long and contains lots of thought provoking stuff, rather like OffG but also meanders a lot – rather like OffG? lol. But there might just be something in there that will fit one of your puzzles?
I began to lose interest after the first half hour, but the photos of the missiles and the aircraft carrier proved my theory, without a shadow of a doubt…
Jason Q on 9/11, NASA, Flat Earth, Trump Resigns, Flynn President, Kennedy and MORE!

I know that Lt. Col.O’Brian was the pilot of the modified C130 aircraft carrier that delivered the missiles to the Pentagon, and Shanksville,
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=steve_o_brien
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_O%27Brien_(pilot)
http://lorainenunley.com/10-things-the-c-130-hercules-can-transport/

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 9:12 PM
Reply to  Margaret

I should have said begin the video at 36 mins… I was sent this video, and watched it late at night so couldn’t actually maintain the concentration, but my ears pricked up at 36 min……

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 29, 2020 12:26 AM
Reply to  Margaret

I have to say my feeling is nothing was used at all other than explosives within the buildings, however, I will watch your video with interest. Someone has explained to me how missiles were used before but I didn’t find their explanation compelling.

To my mind though if the explanation is one that people can easily dispute it’s best to leave it out of the main argument. Sure, it’s interesting if missiles were used but if we just say the buildings came down by controlled means that’s sufficient in my book. I’m not sure why they’d use missiles when I can’t see why they would have had to although maybe they just wanted to test them … or maybe they did in fact have to use them to do the operation the way they wanted.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 8:30 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani
Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 9:08 PM
Reply to  Margaret

The U.S. government orchestrated or abetted the 9/11 attacks. No planes struck WTC7, and the commonly available views of the exterior didn’t show significant damage. Yet, at 5:20 pm, 7 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2), WTC 7 rapidly fell in on itself. Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, it is obvious to a blind man that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition – in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government’s complicity in the terrorist attacks. “It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved,” stated actress and TV personality Rosie O’Donnell of ABC’s The View in March 2007. “For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible,” she said.

http://www.wtc7.net/lcache/wtc7_files/7graph.jpg

NO PLANE HERE !

WTC-7, the “CIA building”, 47 stories, also appeared to be destroyed by Thermite demolitions.

Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Md., said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC. (AFP)

For the VIDEO, click on the address below.

NEWS CAMERA NBC, West Broadway.

680 kilobytes

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7big.rm

“Molten Steel was found in pools in the basement of WTC-1, WTC-2 & WTC-7. Kerosene-based jet fuel, (or the other combustibles normally found in the towers), cannot generate the heat required to melt steel, especially in an oxygen-poor environment like a deep basement.” Thermite can. 

Secretive CIA Site in New York Was Destroyed on Sept. 11
http://www.wtc7.net/lcache/wtc7.htm

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 29, 2020 12:18 AM
Reply to  Margaret

Margaret, My question isn’t why WTC-7?

My question is why bring down WTC-7 in a very, very self-incriminating SHOWCASE implosion on 9/11 when we are given no clue about how WTCs 3, 4, 5 and 6 came down … which they also had very good reason for bringing down too no doubt, however, they didn’t advertise their destructions.

Think about it.

The people pushing 9/11 truth are A&E not pilots or professionals connected with the planes. In fact, 60 aerospace engineers are signed onto A&E but they don’t talk about the PLANES!, no, they talk about the BUILDINGS.

Faked planes mean faked deaths and they want to keep us right away from any fakery of death because if you start thinking about the fakery of plane deaths then you might start thinking about the possibility of fakery of the other deaths.

They know that only a very small percentage of the population will concern themselves with WTC-7 and of that small percentage quite a reasonable percentage – who knows maybe even a very high percentage – will believe it came down by fire!!! They know how we think, they know what percentage will be inclined to think this way and what percentage that way.

9/11 was a massive Full-Scale Anti-Terrorist Exercise pushed out as a real event. The only physical realities of the day were damage to and destruction of buildings. The planes were faked and death and injury were staged.

That’s it in a nutshell. 9/11 was a glorified “exercise” not a false flag per se.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 2:16 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Margaret:

“The nuking of the WTC’s on 911 did happen”

TFIC have really set up an effective wilderness of mirrors around their crimes, I think. Finding our way out is going to be hard…

Claiming a nuclear weapon was used at the WTC complex is an extraordinary claim with very little extraordinary evidence to support it; surely a “briefcase nuke” (if they exist) would be the weapon of choice if they’d wanted to vaporize that entire section of Manhattan. Anybody with a Geiger counter has c. 25,000 years to prove/ disprove that theory (the next 25,000 years, after the first, the signal will have faded significantly).

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 27, 2020 7:04 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

The argument about the improbability of naming the plane after his mother doesn’t really stack up. That’s a typical false flag decoy of the USA military mind, I saw plenty with my own eyes even as a cadet in ROTC. Reversal of meaning, emotion, message, it’s all part of the (long-standing) ‘culture of psyop’.

I saw a t-shirt on the son of an Irish woman I walked home from Mass one night 35 years ago. On the way she tells me, ‘I ask the Lord, “Let me bloom where I’m planted” she said. When we got to her door she introduced me to her son, who was wearing a slogan on his t: ‘KILL A COMMIE FOR MOMMIE'”

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 12:47 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

OK, John, so Little Boy was dropped on August 6 and Fat Man was dropped on August 9. If they called the first plane Enola Gay after the pilot’s mother wouldn’t it then make the naming of Bockscar with a cartoon image of a boxcar with wings look like it might be going to do a similar job.

And isn’t it a little odd that they push out this nomenclature as if it’s all normal. Lay people won’t understand the techniques. Isn’t there the risk of lay people wondering why such disrespect is being shown in the naming of the planes and the bombs? Of course, they haven’t but you’d think they might, right?

This is a video that I think rather compellingly shows the fakery of a test nuclear bomb in Operation Hardtack in 1958. What it shows is that the clouds don’t change that would be affected by the bomb, the implication being that the footage of the bombing is overlaid.
https://153news.net/watch_video.php?v=NMARM7X6O9YH

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 1:02 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Just had another thought. One might argue that they don’t give their secrets away about how they decoy but surely in that case they wouldn’t reveal the names of the planes or bombs ever … because right there they’re giving the game away.

I’m afraid, John, it’s your argument that doesn’t stack up.

God I hate the way I have to defend my signs of psyops. Drives me mad. It’s true signs of a psyop alone don’t prove it is one. Nevertheless they are still signs of a psyop. They are clearly signs … even if ultimately the event proves to be real.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 3:24 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Actually, I thank you for your comment, John, it helps me state my psyop points better. It’s interesting how they advertise the name of the planes and the bombs, isn’t it? We really do have to wonder why they would advertise it the way they have just as they have advertised the FBI codename for investigation of 9/11 as being PENTTBOM.

And what is so very, very fascinating is the way nobody – that I’m aware of anyway – has pointed out the seeming disrespect for the seeming death and destruction caused by these bombs in these names.

They know us so well, John, they know us so well. They know how to control our minds so very easily … and yet when you try to point out to people how they’re controlling our minds they won’t have a bar of it.

People really don’t get how they control our minds and how everything is “hidden in plain sight”. They just do not get it. Nor do they get that they psyop us constantly and these psyops are all on a continuum and share so many common features.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 28, 2020 4:03 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Thanks for the comments, sorry that I can’t always respond to each point. If I had a keyboard, I’d cover more, as I type about ten times as fast as this smartphone, my humbled means for months at the moment! The Main Library here just reopened for PC use! So that may help.

As I’ve said often enough, I admire your essential approach of questioning everything about unusual events, as you turn up hidden gold mines of very valuable questions and perceptions, and we need them now more than ever. Some have taken shots about some not fully hatched theories, but I could care less about those since your remarkable finds outweigh any others, and after all we are involved in secondary evidence. Mostly. One story I’ll share that’s not. But first, you wrote:

***”And what is so very, very fascinating is the way nobody – that I’m aware of anyway – has pointed out the seeming disrespect for the seeming death and destruction caused by these bombs in these names.”***

I can think of one glorious exception, and one of my relative

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 28, 2020 4:39 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I posted this elsewhere here, but it got garbled by some glitch at a point I needed to reword, so ignore that. I’ll try to repost later.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 27, 2020 6:45 PM

That’s closer to my position, why wouldn’t they want a “mixed bag” and a “mixed message” for such a fiasco? Having it so mixed on each front offers even more, not less, cover for them to hide their tracks, which is one of their main missions.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 7:51 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Indeed. For every job, there’s a tool in the toolkit.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Sep 27, 2020 9:12 PM

Geese, we all just made a heap of dough for Petra by engaging her (I presume she gets paid by the post count).
I like the way she shimmies around the word, “evidence”, as if she’s ever provide a sliver of the same …

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 10:34 PM
Reply to  Victor G.

Ha ha! Possibly…

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 27, 2020 10:37 PM
Reply to  Victor G.

You know who/what Petra “Flaxgirl” Liverani’s style reminds me of? Remember “Sorcha Faal”…?

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 28, 2020 10:02 AM

Sorch Faal Lives!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 1:22 AM
Reply to  Victor G.

Victor, how do I not provide evidence or at least logic or reason?

I’ve put forward five 10-point Occam’s Razor exercises mostly using EVIDENCE but also simple logic and reason and I’ve issued a $5,000 challenge for people to respond with an exercise favouring the opposing hypothesis to do the same with favouring of hypotheses reversed and they can choose their own judge from a specified profession.

No one has responded so far.

Do you have a website making cases for arguments? Have you issued a challenge to which no one has responded?

Where is your evidence, Victor? Where’s yours?

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 25, 2020 3:04 PM
Reply to  John Goss

Hi John, Why would you need an inquest into Dr David Kelly’s death?
Everyone knows he cut his wrist with a rusty penknife, and took a few Coproxamol to end his life….
Then miracle of miracles, managed to move positions after he died.
Teflon Tony Bliar had him killed. I believe Alistair Campbell knew the truth, I wonder if that’s why he had a breakdown?

>>> Andrew Watt, quoted prominently in the Saturday edition of Britain’s Mail Online‘ said
“I reported to the Thames force that I believe that the death of Dr Kelly may have been murder,” and said. “I have received an acknowledgement and they have given me an incident number. I have been told that the inquiry is being conducted by a very senior officer.” (lol, lol, lol)
 A team of 13 doctors also challenged the finding, insisting that he could not have bled to death from a wound of that size. This was apparently confirmed in August, when the detective who found Kelly’s body revealed that there “wasn’t much blood about” the scene. The doctors added that the amount of painkiller in his system was not nearly enough to kill him.
Kelly himself had predicted he would be “found dead in the woods” if the UK invaded Iraq.
There is also controversy over whether Kelly’s body was moved to a different location after it was discovered. A paramedic who was at the scene said last month that the body had “obviously” been moved, which would have explained why there was so little blood at the scene, as at least two witnesses claim. “I’ve seen more blood at a nosebleed than I saw there,” the paramedic said.
“I think it is highly likely he was assassinated,” remarked one of the doctors who penned the challenge, speaking to The Telegraph.<<<
https://www.rawstory.com/2010/11/drug-expert-told-police-iraq-whistleblower-david-kelly-murdered/
Ahh, the days before censoring?
It appears that it doesn’t matter how sloppy MI5/6 operations are… the Sheeple will believe them. Princess Diana? The Spy in the holdall?
Cognitive Dissonance rules the day?

John Goss
John Goss
Sep 25, 2020 5:05 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Thank you Margaret for filling in some of the gaps. Andrew Watt did some sterling work – and quite a few others. An inquest was started until Tony Blair’s old friend Lord Falconer advised an Inquiry suggesting that Lord Hutton was a safe bet.

http://www.richardwebster.net/print/xhuttonmirror.htm

Coroners’ Law has changed since this event and technically the Hutton Inquiry was illegal. At that time Inquiries were only called then there were multiple deaths – as with Hillsborough. After the change in law another whitewash replaced an inquest in the case of Alexander Litvinenko. Where we go in the future is anyone’s guess.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 25, 2020 7:47 PM
Reply to  John Goss

Now there’s a conundrum… What exactly did Falconer know?
””The Lord Chancellor, Charles Falconer, who was in London, rang Blair on the aircraft’s phone within minutes of the body being found and in a surprisingly brief call was instructed to set in motion a full-blown public inquiry into Dr Kelly’s death.
“Falconer established this inquiry ‘several hours before’ any exact cause of Dr Kelly’s death had been determined officially – and, indeed, ‘before’ the body found that morning had been formally identified.”
In his opinion this was unusual.
He speculated: “What could possibly have led Falconer and Blair, the two most senior political figures of the day, to take this unusual step on the basis of what, according to contemporaneous police reports, appeared to be a tragic case of a professional man ending his own life?
“Why were they even involved at such an early stage in what was essentially an incident that was local to Oxfordshire?
“What was it about the death of David Kelly that had disturbed Falconer and Blair so much that they went on to interrupt and ultimately derail the coroner’s inquest, which had been opened routinely?
“And why were they content to replace that inquest with a less rigorous form of investigation into Dr Kelly’s death?
“These questions preoccupied me as a journalist for years. They pointed to powerful forces working against the proper investigation of an unexpected event – in this case, a death mired in mystery.” A coroner’s inquest usually takes many months to prepare, and in complex cases can take some years to be heard.
Mr Blair’s inquiry – ‘The Hutton Inquiry’, set up to investigate “the circumstances surrounding the death of Dr Kelly,” opened on August 11 2003, just 24 days after the body was found, and ended ”13 days later”’ on September 24.
The report, published in January 2004, concluded he took his own life.
But there has been much criticism that the inquiry circumvented the normal inquest process.
The body was exhumed last year at the request of the family, amid their concerns about campaigners who are calling for an inquest to be opened interfering with the grave…. (WTF who ever heard of campaigners interfering with a grave? The plot really does thicken)
Dr Kelly was reportedly cremated. Also all of Dr Kelly’s dental records were missing???
Mr Goslett concludes in his book that in his opinion there are many unanswered questions, raised during or since the Hutton Inquiry, which remain.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/938414/Tony-Blair-block-Dr-David-Kelly-inquest-Miles-Goslet-An-Inconvenient-Death

So it would appear to me that Falconer and Hutton were Bliar’s bitches?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 26, 2020 2:41 AM
Reply to  Margaret

Margaret, you’re making the assumption he’s actually dead but all the clues they give us would indicate he isn’t. Wouldn’t his wife be jumping up and down at the utter ludicrousness of the death story. It is ludicrous from top to bottom and side to side.

It’s a thing, in fact, a pretty common thing:

They allege someone has committed suicide but they make it look like murder (in very sloppy fashion mind you) but it’s neither of those. The person is “sheepdipped” – given a new identity and shipped off somewhere. Alternatively, they make it look like murder but same result – the person isn’t dead, they are just sheepdipped.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 8:51 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Definitely, in my opinion, the case with Epstein. The mere fact that even most “Alt” coverage of his “fake-suicide: murder” studiously avoided even mentioning the possibility that Epstein isn’t dead… struck me as suspicious. Along with the supposedly grassroots “Epstein didn’t kill himself” meme invading YouTube comment threads that year.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 28, 2020 10:43 AM

Robin Williams. None of the Press to be found the world over even made a peep, such as,”Is there any possibility of foul play?”

David Carradine. The media reporting his death focused on the lurid sex “evidence” and yet not possible murder? There is a consensus within his famed family that he was murdered. Interestingly, too, that that story is buried, as is the same silence with Kobe Bryant.

Well, the list goes on.

That doesn’t compare to the Epstein issue, except as to a trail of press deceptions.

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 28, 2020 10:20 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Well, it could work like that, and you’re definitely right about the strange inefficiency in staged suicideds that are badly rigged homicides (Marilyn Monroe’s comes to mind; and my father’s, another, where two shots were fired but only one casing found inside the locked car.)

It shows up and comes across as a high-level contract killing, but then stuff is all out of place? Doesn’t add up.

But I don’t follow the sheep dip. If, say, Marilyn took a powder to Siberia, word is going to get out, a face even known in the wilds. Forget about her Omertà, even if she never confessed, just her mere presence would blow the whole game, it would be a proof of a vast network of conspirators, within government. Then come the real hitmen. They could never afford to have her found alive.

Plastic surgery? I dunno, it just seems there would be too many confidentiality problems with Marilyn sheepdipped. She’s a good example, because of all she knew, and as was known.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 11:45 AM
Reply to  John Ervin

Yes, I should have made the point that they may well murder the person even when they make obvious signs and it’s true, I guess, they may have murdered David Kelly. Perhaps his family know perfectly well he was murdered but know they need to keep their mouths shut … or who knows even wanted him dead too for some reason – wild speculation but no doubt in some cases it may be the case although it seems reasonably unlikely???

I guess what I should say is that just because they say suicide and then do a sloppy job where it seems like murder it doesn’t mean they killed the person, they, at least, could have sheepdipped them.

No doubt they really did kill Marilyn Monroe but I’m sure she could make herself look very different from the way she did. She was very much a persona. Perhaps both she and JFK went off to the wild blue yonder 🙂

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Sep 28, 2020 12:01 PM
Reply to  John Ervin

Actually, looking at David Kelly I feel pretty convinced it was all staged. I think all this chemical and biological weapon stuff is just a way of fear-mongering. The post-9/11 anthrax attacks were completely bogus and, of course, David Kelly didn’t come out and say that, did he? No way. He would have known for sure.

Nope. I don’t buy it. I don’t think David Kelly was killed.

This strikes me as funny. Apparently there was a Justice for Kelly (JFK) group who wanted his body exhumed so under their noses it was exhumed at the family’s wishes because they didn’t like JFK hanging around and insisting on exhumation.

They were said to be upset about local campaign group Justice For Kelly visiting his grave to leave notes and flowers — and even threatening to have his body dug up themselves.

In July 2014 the group also placed three placards a few yards from the grave, which read: “Dr Kelly lyeth here today because he told the truth. 11th anniversary of his suspicious death. Coroner’s inquest please. Justice For Kelly (JFK) group.”

Sounds like a big fat fabrication to me. They just wind us up constantly.

Oh yes, and it just happened to be the 11th anniversary.

Freeborn John
Freeborn John
Sep 24, 2020 11:42 AM

Andre’s last appearance on TV

https://youtu.be/pT7b6dTVs7s

Telling truth to tyrants is fraught with danger.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 9:41 AM

David Graeber (59) in Venice, Andre Vltchek (57) in Istanbul. I’d advise Michel Chossudovsky to avoid travelling this year.

timfrom
timfrom
Sep 24, 2020 10:39 AM

I got the impression that Graeber, having been given only a short time to live, travelled to Venice in order to die in his favourite place. It would be my choice, too. Does anyone know what killed him? (Please, God, let it not be Covid-19!)

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 12:27 PM
Reply to  timfrom

I got the impression that Graeber, having been given only a short time to live, travelled to Venice in order to die in his favourite place.”

No such narrative has been reported, as far as I’m aware of. Graeber was given a short time to live, but I don’t think he was notified of the decision beforehand:

“His wife Nika Dubrovsky announced on Twitter that Graeber was vacationing with her and friends in Venice, and that the immediate cause was internal bleeding.”

I mean, sure, I get “plausible deniability” (at least Kari Mullis was 74, despite the incredible suggestiveness of the timing of his death), but Graeber at just 59? Vltcheck at 57? The more gullible we are the bolder they get. I always say that the period immediately before and after a “pivotal” election (as in when the Bush/Reagan junta was ushered in) is unusually dangerous for dissidents but this is getting ridiculous.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 12:43 PM

I mean, how does this NOT sound like poisoning?

“David Graeber’s death cause is unknown yet. However, Graeber posted on Twitter in August that he had “been sick for a month.” He maintained that the illness caused him “weird soapy taste in my mouth, exhaustion, stomach [and] lung-ache.”

Tom Welsh
Tom Welsh
Sep 24, 2020 3:22 PM

Quite apart from Graeber’s magnificent books, he wrote articles like this:

“Turkey could cut off Islamic State’s supply lines. So why doesn’t it?”https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis

Tom Welsh
Tom Welsh
Sep 24, 2020 3:19 PM
Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 5:01 PM
Reply to  Tom Welsh

Yes, that’s right, I forgot about that!

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 5:02 PM
Reply to  Tom Welsh

It used to be easy to search for reliable sites on the theme of “SUSPICIOUS DEATHS of PARAPOLITICAL RESEARCHERS”… much harder now. Know of any…?

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 25, 2020 3:23 PM

The list is endless Steven:
David Ike, and Gilad Atzmon, Norman Finkelstein, and John Pilger, Vanessa Beeley, and Eva Bartlett…All have knives aimed at their backs.

TRUTH-TELLERS “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” Mahatma Gandhi 

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 25, 2020 4:50 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Margaret!

I was looking specifically for (reliable, no-nonsense) sites aggregating lists of “Suspicious Deaths”… hard to find, now.

Oh, and re: Icke: controlled opposition (specifically, they use him to “black-wash” valid parapolitical topics, a la Alex Jones, to scare the Uni-educated, middle class electorate away from radical discourse).

And Gandhi… well… speaking of “truth”… (the rule of thumb should be to look skeptically upon the figures which our Psychopathic Rulers celebrate most energetically):

“let’s take a quick look at a sample of Gandhi’s views on Afrikan-Black people at the age of 36:

22 May, 1906
“It was a gross injustice to seek to place Indians in the same class as the Kaffirs.”
(Vol. V. The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi (Electronic Book) (Vol. 98 volumes). New Delhi: Publications Division Government of India, p. 226)
‘Kaffir’ is an extremely derogatory term used to describe the indigenous Afrikan/Black people of uMzantsi Afrika (South Africa), and Gandhi was aware that the term was as derogatory as the term ‘Coolie’, which was applied to Indians and to which he took much offence (See Willem Adolf Joubert and T. Johan Scott (1981). The Law of South Africa, vol. 6. Cape Town Berea: Butterworths, pp. 251–254.).

26 May, 1906
“Thanks to the Court’s decision, only clean Indians or Coloured people other than Kaffirs can now travel by the trams.”
(CWMG. Vol. V, p. 235)

Now let’s take a brief look at Gandhi’s views on Black people after his supposed transformation, which ostensibly occurred in the middle of 1906:
6 November, 1906
“Boer leaders […] should not consider Indians as being on the same level as Kaffirs.”
(CWMG, Vol. VI, p. 112)

16 November, 1906
“[T]he Boer mind […] refused to recognize the evident and sharp distinctions that undoubtedly exist between British Indians and the Kaffir races in South Africa.”
(CWMG. Vol. VI, p. 95)

12 July, 1907
“If registration is made compulsory, there will be no difference between Indians and Kaffirs…”
(CWMG. Vol. VII, p. 395)

12 December, 1907
“The Indian of the Transvaal […] is indiscriminately dubbed ‘coolie.’ One hears even in official circles such expressions as ‘coolie lawyer,’ ‘coolie doctor,’ ‘coolie merchant.’ His women are ‘coolie Marys. […]
He is even denied the not always obvious privilege of riding in the same municipal tramcars and Government railway carriages as his white fellow-colonists. His children are afforded no facilities for education except they attend the schools set apart for Kaffirs.”
(CWMG. Vol. VII, pp. 445-446) (emphasis added)
We cannot but point out the double-standard in Gandhi’s laments at being called a coolie, while in the next breath he descends to calling Afrikan-Black people “Kaffirs”. This is when Gandhi was 38-years-old.

12 December, 1907
“Compulsory registration is recognised as signifying nothing less than the reduction of British Indians to the status of the Kaffir.”
(CWMG. Vol. VII, p. 447)

July 3, 1907
“Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilised – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals. […] The reader can easily imagine the plight of the poor Indian thrown into such company!”
(CWMG Vol. VIII, p. 199)

2 February, 1908
“The British rulers take us to be so lowly and ignorant that they assume that, like the Kaffirs who can be pleased with toys and pins, we can also be fobbed off with trinkets.”
(CWMG. Vol. VIII, p. 167)

7 March, 1908
“Many of the Native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves in their cells.”
(CWMG. Vol. VIII, p. 183)

3 July, 1908
“We were then marched off to a prison intended for Kaffirs. There, our garments were stamped with the letter ‘N,’ which meant that we were being classed with the Natives. We were all prepared for hardships, but not quite for this experience. We could understand not being classed with the whites, but to be placed on the same level with the Natives seemed too much to put up with.
(CWMG. Vol. VIII, p. 198)

21 March, 1908
“There is nothing for it but to let ourselves be classed with the Kaffirs and starve.”
(CWMG. Vol. VIII, pp. 218-19)

16 January, 1909
“I observed with regret that some Indians were happy to sleep in the same room as the Kaffirs […] We may entertain no aversion to Kaffirs, but we cannot ignore the fact that there is no common ground between them and us in the daily affairs of life.”
(CWMG. Vol. IX, p. 257)

16 January, 1909
“I have, though, resolved in my mind on an agitation to ensure that Indian prisoners are not lodged with Kaffirs or others.”
(CWMG. Vol. IX, p. 257)

The next quote is a brief look at Gandhi’s role in supporting a multi-level caste-like strain of Apartheid in the prisons in South Africa. He was 39 when he wrote this:
23 January, 1909
“[T]here was urgent need for separate lavatories for Indians. I also told him that Indian prisoners should never be lodged with Kaffirs. The Governor immediately issued an order for a lavatory for Indians to be sent on from the Central Gaol.”
(CWMG. Vol. IX, p. 270)

30 January, 1909
“First, why should we bear such hardships, submit ourselves, for instance, to the restrictions of gaol life, wear coarse and ungainly dress, eat food which is hardly food, starve ourselves, suffer being kicked by the warder, live among the Kaffirs […] Better die than suffer this…”
(CWMG. Vol. IX, p. 292) (emphasis added)

Again, we see the blatant “Coolie/Kaffir” hypocrisy in the following quote by Gandhi:
19 July, 1909
“We were locked up with the Kaffirs. There was not a single European officer who described us as Indians. We were called “sammies” or “coolies”.
(CWMG. Vol. X, p. 34) (emphasis added)

8 October, 1909
“We do not get there the food that we are used to, and are classified with the Kaffirs.”
(CWMG. Vol. X, p. 158)

It should be noted at this point that Gandhi lived till 78 and at the time of the preceding quote, he was 40, making him middle-aged (and certainly not in his mid-30s as asserted by Guha). Those who suffer from impropaGandhi-induced cognitive dissonance, who say he was only an anti-Black/anti-Afrikan racist when he was “young”, are being quite disingenuous. Let’s continue:

2 December, 1910
“Some Indians do have contacts with Kaffir women. I think such contacts are fraught with grave danger. Indians would do well to avoid them altogether.”
(CWMG. Vol. X, p. 414)

10 March, 1911
“If the Regulations provide for Kaffir Police, we can fight the Regulations.”
(CWMG. Vol. XI, p. 266)
25 October, 1913
“I saw it reported that we might even ask the Kaffirs to strike. But such is not our intention at all.”
(CWMG. Vol XIII, p. 385)

https://theprint.in/opinion/ramachandra-guha-is-wrong-a-middle-aged-gandhi-was-racist-and-no-mahatma/168222/

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 4:50 PM

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the information about Gandhi, I was surprised and disappointed to read that he was such a racist. In my defence, I was not seeking to deify him by quoting him, but thought the phrase was apt. Likewise, I have no admiration for Goebbels but often quote his opinions about Propaganda and the sheeple.
I had the same reaction to the truth about Mother Theresa, who in spite of her ”totally self sacrificing attention to others” was not a ‘good’ woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa
Sadly I have come to realise quite late in my life, that there are NO perfect people on this planet.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 5:15 PM

Hi Steven,
I wasn’t seeking to deify Gandhi but simply posting a quote which I thought was apt. Just as I posted Goebbel’s opinions about propaganda, but that wasn’t meant to show that I admired him?
I wasn’t aware of Gandhi’s racism, thank you for enlightening me. I am very disappointed, but why should I have been surprised, because there are no ‘perfect’ people on this planet.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 28, 2020 7:32 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Margaret:

On top of his life-long racism (and dodgy sexual practices), are you aware that Gandhi, in essence, killed his wife? Not with a pistol but by denying her a medical treatment that would have contradicted his belief system! Irony: he later needed the same medical treatment… and opted to take it.

It’s not so much that nobody’s perfect (there are lots of genuinely great people on this Earth), it’s just that anyone TFIC grant world-fame to, and then beatify (like the mega-creepy Mother Teresa), we need to be leery of. The Truly Great rarely get famous and often dwell in obscurity… seek one out near you! (Or in you)

Margaret
Margaret
Oct 2, 2020 9:54 PM

What saddens me is that I spent too many years thinking these were good people. I was one of those ‘stuck in the cave’. It came as a great shock to realise that it had been possible to be duped to such an extent. Taught me a lesson though, to research everything minutely.
I need to know what is TFIC?
‘The truly Great’ what like John Lennon?
And yes, I am and always have been, a good person, who has striven even harder, consciously for the past 30 years (since I had my epiphany when I had cancer) to ‘do the right thing’ and help those less fortunate in my community, especially children. Only now I am toothless (not literally) and had I been an Inuit, I would have been left outside the tent years ago. lol… Which causes me a great deal of frustration. That is why I get involved with OffG to try my best to educate and inform people.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 2, 2020 10:34 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Margaret!

Well, yeah, I think Lennon was sort of great… but not in the Disneyfied way the audience has been programmed to demand of their “icons”. He got a lot of stuff wrong in an isolated-ignorant-super-celebrity-of-the-70s way; all that New Age mumbo jumbo Yoko hooked him up to in direct conflict with his common-sense, no-nonsense, “give me some truth” nature. But he struggled mightily to find a way to do good things; he struggled mightily to get to The Truth. But the poor guy was so weak when it came to mother-figures, eh? I know they’re anathema among Beatles “fans” (I’m as thoroughly conversant with Beatles lore as almost any non-scholar could be) but between Albert Goldman’s book, and Fred Seaman’s book, and a teaspoon of grains of salt, I think there’s some pretty bracing (disturbing) info about Lennon’s last years, and how close he came to escaping, and how his weakness/ blind-spots ultimately set him up for his undoing. And, sure, “Imagine” shows John falling right into the Globalist trap… but the John Lennon of Number Nine Dream (and Revolution, fast version; Across the Universe, Day in the Life, Twist and Shout, et al) is my Spirit Animal. Poor guy! What might have been…!

PS TFIC = The Fuckers in Charge

PPS The first section of this essay (below) on “Childishness” is one of my oblique and sober tributes to Lennon, who I’ve always respected enough to criticize:

https://berlin8berlin.wordpress.com/2018/10/13/how-the-century-of-the-child-became-the-most-childish-century/

Margaret
Margaret
Oct 3, 2020 6:36 PM

From the beginning I think John was the driving force in the Beatles, and was ‘a rebel’ who delighted in sarcasm.. because he couldn’t stand the sycophant and falsity. I thought Yoko was a clever con woman, who fascinated John because she took everyone for a ride. Her ‘art’ was akin to Tracy Emmen, and was literally a pile of ‘***’. And as you say she hooked him up to some pretty weird stuff.. And caused him to disown his son Julian.. Who I thought was John when I heard his first record.. But it kept him in the public eye, and definitely made a difference to the ‘Stop the War in Vietnam’ protests. I think that is why the CIA had him assassinated. For it is as clear as day that Mark Chapman was mind controlled.
I read and enjoyed your ‘Century of the Child’. You have the most fascinating way of expressing yourself, but I find myself struggling sometimes to keep up, because clearly I was not educated to your level.
I wondered at times what you were using.. and thought perhaps it would benefit me to be on the same wavelength. lol.
None the less, you amaze and intrigue me. And I loved the story of you and K, and your absolute love for your son.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Oct 2, 2020 10:36 PM
Reply to  Margaret

“Only now I am toothless (not literally) and had I been an Inuit, I would have been left outside the tent years ago. lol… Which causes me a great deal of frustration.”

But that’s the beauty of the internet: you cam present information stripped of all biographical context, if you like! For now, at least…

John Ervin
John Ervin
Sep 28, 2020 10:51 AM
Reply to  Margaret

“Truth is Truth, wherever it is found.”. — Thomas Aquinas

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Sep 24, 2020 3:51 AM

I don’t think any of these horrible people in control of us can change the weather, I don’t think any of them including Piers Corbyn can oredict the weather more than a few weeks if that in advance.

I do not know what the weather is going to do, over the next few weeks and months, but I suspect it may get incredibly cold and you should prepare for it, just in case ALL The power goes off for 3 months, and it gets incredibly cold.

Prepare for it.

Warm clothing – basic camping gear like a little gas stove £20 + gas bottles

If you have got a car -hopefully 4wd + snow chains…Snow boots or ordianary boots, with metallic wife grip under lay. Rucksack, Gloves, Snow Coat, Walking Sticks and Skis, to get any food availabel back from your local supermarket (do you think this Government will Grit The Roads – It seems to me they are Trying to Kill us ASAP

I am merely suggesting you think about these things and prepare.

Sometimes it gets incredibly cold and snowy, even where we live.

The last time this happened where we lived this was about 15 years ago.

The only guy who got through to us through the depths of snow was our Milkman.

He would never let down his customers, if he could get through in any way he could.

Prepare for it.

What are you going to do, if the lights go out..you have no torch and you have no food. in your cupboard or fridge.

Do you think The Government are Going To Help You?

Do you Really Think They could Give a Shit about You?

Do You Think They Care…

Look at The State of Them.

We are going to have to look after ouselves.

The Government is Trying To Kill Us.

You will be O.K., i you get some cheap tinned food in
containing lots of protein – like Fish and loads of dried stuff, flour, sugar, oil, beans rice sphagetti, and friends to brighten it up

With no TV, Radio. Internet, Water, Gas Oil, Food, Drink nor Money we are going to be pretty screwed when The Shit Hits The Fan

Winter is only a few days away

It is going to get cold

Prepare Now

Winter is Coming

Keep Warm and Well

Get a Hot Water Bottle Now.

Tony

Fish & Chips
Fish & Chips
Sep 24, 2020 5:19 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

With respect Tony, this is an article and thread in Memory of Andre Vlthchek.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 5:08 PM
Reply to  Fish & Chips

Dear oh dear Fish and Chips…..
Clearly you haven’t been around OffG very long? FYI, Andre would have loved how his work inspired others to be motivated, and share their experiences and information that would help others..

Perhaps you would like to see this site turned into a simple book of condolence, and then closed?
Or perhaps we could all put too for a meaningless wreath and lay it at the door of OffG?
We… who actually followed, read or knew Andre, are continuing where he left off…
If you don’t like it then just push off!
I’m sure there are other sites where your narrow, limited input would be very welcome.
And that applies to the 25 muppets who voted up Fish & Chip’s comment.

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Sep 24, 2020 8:24 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Tony, before saying ‘no-one can control the weather’, you should go read about HAARP technology, which seeks to mimic the effect of solar CMEs reaching the upper atmosphere, amongst other things. Whilst no-one has contacted Wikileaks to my knowledge to release detailed information on just what the various HAARP stations globally can do and have done (the biggest one is in Alaska, but they also exist in Norway and Russia), I am firmly of the opinion that the US military is actively testing weather control as a warmongering strategy, particularly given the adverse weather conditions that seemed to have visited major sporting events held outside the US in the decade 2010-19.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 9:32 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

“I don’t think any of these horrible people in control of us can change the weather”

Actually, the tech for that has been around for quite some time and its rudimentary civilian iteration is so banal that you can hire a company to make sure it’s a sunny day for your wedding. The service isn’t cheap but it isn’t Sci Fi, either.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 3:18 PM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Hi Tony,
I happen to agree with you, for this is the worst case scenario for many, even now, before the proverbial hits the fan….
My family and I have camped for many years and missing from your list is a wind up Radio: £19.99 .
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Duronic-Radio-HYBRID-Charge-Ways/dp/B002D9FKDS/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2ORRJXZLKQNL0&dchild=1&keywords=camping+radio+dab&qid=1601125076&sprefix=camping+radio%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-3

And a wind up Hurricane lamp:: £19.99
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Duronic-Hurricane-Torch-Rechargeable-Ways/dp/B00BHY7URE/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=wind+up+camping+hurricane+lamp&qid=1601125427&sr=8-

Better still a Solar and Wind up version is the one I recommend because I bought one: £27.99
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AGPTEK-Portable-Camping-Lantern-Rechargeable/dp/B015SGY4Q6/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=wind+up+camping+hurricane+lamp&qid=1601125722&sr=8-9

Also remember to stock up on Vitamins. C/Zinc/CoQ10/Garlic/Cod Liver Oil/Magnesium/Chromium/Selenium/Turmeric. Plasters and Buck
wheat honey, which can be used topically for wounds. I have also invested in Colloidal Silver cream and spray for throat infections, and clove oil for toothache. Not forgetting insect repellant. and a mosquitto
Other staples are 3% Peroxide. Cleaning cloths. Soap/shampoo/body wash. And of course toilet paper and kitchen rolls. All sizes of Kilner jars for preserving food in season, plus white vinegar, sugar and salt. Flour and packets of yeast, and a griddle pan for making pizza bread. £10.99 is the one I bought
https://www.amazon.co.uk/KitchenCraft-Induction-Safe-Griddle-Healthy-Cooking/dp/B000PABYNC/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=griddle+pan+for+camping+and+making+welsh+cakes&qid=1601127121&sr=8-1

As you say, stay warm and well. Layer up and wrap up as soon as the sun goes down, and snuggle down in Fleece blankets, which lock in the warmth. From £3 in Dunhelm.
If you are unfortunate enough to have to live outside, then a tent, and Mosquito stickers are what you will need for the children to avoid spraying chemicals in their faces. and Mosquito bracelets.
Last but not least you will need plastic water bottle or two, depending on the size of your family, I have collapsible ones costing from £7.99.

God forbid that we will actually need these, but they won’t go to waste, for you can discover the joy of camping and nature.
And God help those who are forced to live like this to actually survive.

PS Fish and Chips.. There is nothing in the OG rules that say we cannot go off topic? That is called a conversation, where we move seamlessly from subject to subject, and help one another. I think it is a given, that we are all saddened by Andre’s death,.. which has caused many of us to think about our future and what he warned about.

ZigZagWanderer
ZigZagWanderer
Sep 24, 2020 1:44 AM

One of us … vety sad.

ZigZagWanderer
ZigZagWanderer
Sep 24, 2020 1:45 AM
Reply to  ZigZagWanderer

very

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Sep 24, 2020 1:27 AM

Oh no.

Haven’t seen any of him around him OG for ages.

I liked his consistency.

Wtf?

I am … upset by this…

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Sep 24, 2020 2:36 AM
Reply to  DunGroanin

Dung, Well maybe you were a right wing cnt, and never realised it. and thought you were way Left of Billy Bragg who I like too.

Where you a fan of B’last?

B’last. For an American Band ripping off The Best of British Punk, I thought they were Pretty Good…but not as good as even The Stranglers

I was a hippy at the time, still long hair, still long hair now, but I still went to the punk gigs – they gave me a bit of git in the bogs – but I just said i’m here to see the band – Tubeway Army -and loads of others later. I still wouldn’t cut my hair , and its still growing out of my head and I am 67 years old now, and it still works. No Prescription Drugs.

How about you?

Send us a photo, I have just reconnected with a girl I haven’t seen for years. She is Beautiful and Very Spanish, She loves my wife and I.

I can’t understand a word she says unless I am pissed and can read her lips.

She’s got kids too.

“Bl’ast! – It’s in My Blood”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL0iTNRXWLU

It’s important to communicate with your friends especially as you get older

You can make someone happy and revitalise them, just by sending a text message and say hello.

It is not that hard – just do it. The worst you will get is no response.

The best is much better than that

It’s called Socialism

Being a Friend

Tony

DunGroanin
DunGroanin
Sep 24, 2020 9:48 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

You may have started a hippy Compo but you sold out long long ago – your pretend personality has run its course – there’s is no going back to the righteous path for most. And certainly not without repentance!

That’s why there are lines which must not be crossed.

Once you do , you are forever lost.
Once a scab, always a SCAB!

Got it you old letch?

————-
I went to bed after enjoying last orders one more time before the lockdown, shocked by Andre’s demise, knowing I was going to be angry and be responding accordingly – I shall be taking fewer prisoners from now on.

You have the honour to be the first of these. No more warnings.

Jeffrey Strahl
Jeffrey Strahl
Sep 24, 2020 12:30 AM

RIP, Andre!

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Sep 23, 2020 11:12 PM

This news came as quite a shock to me yesterday when I heard it. Andre was indeed a true internationalist and defender of the underdog and all those ground into the dirt and spat out by Neoliberalism.
I sincerely hope, that people show some respect to this man, even if you disagreed with his politics. At his core, he was a humanist, who cared greatly for the victims of this system. RIP Andre.

tonyopmoc
tonyopmoc
Sep 24, 2020 1:34 AM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

So are you Gezzah Potts in Australia

We have to fight back with our humanity, and the courage that you display.

My wife always buys The Big Issue on The Streets of England…

Except There is Nowt on.

It used to be like Time Out – but with more information about The Best Gigs…

But they have now stopped all the Gigs in London…except if you really want to go to what was a live music pub to see an acoustic duo

Nimber 1 Wear a Mask when you come in,

Number 2 Sit at Your Table – that is allocated to you.

Number 3 Do not get up to go to the Bar

Number 4 You can only talk to the people allocated to your table

Number 5 Do Not Sing

Number 6 Dance -do not be Completely Stupid -That has been Banned since March

Number 7 If you Really need to go to The Toilet – put your hand up and wait your turn. (no more than two girls in the same girls toilet, and no more than two men, in the boys at the same time????????

Number 8 No Drummers Allowed in The Pub under any circumstances.

So to react, I have not been to any pub since March, and that was only when we were Camping, and The Barmaid tried to rip us off…didn’t succeed cos my wife is sharp. That is £10 he gave you not £20. I got my correct change back, but even that pissed me off -and that was in the middle of nowhere on the English/Welsh Country Border

All the pubs are going to go bust.

I am Brewing more of my home beer, and have bought a bass guitar an africian drum and a steel pan chinese drum.

I can’t yet play any of them yet, but our Grandchildren will learn. They are here to play.

Nana (my Wife) is Brilliant with them…she can’t play any of the instruments either, but she can teach our Grandchildren how to read,play and have fun. They are only young. She comes down to the same level as them. They don’t think of her as their Grandmother, but as a playmate too She has always been brilliant at looking after young children, including our own and me. Some girls are just naturals. That’s why I married her. I wanted a family like my mine.

My Mum fell in love with her, the moment I brought her home. She just knew she was going to be my wife.

“Alice Cooper – School’s Out (from Alice Cooper: Trashes The World)”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oo8QzDHimQ

Still Here.

Tony

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Sep 24, 2020 2:04 AM
Reply to  tonyopmoc

Thank you Tony…. and you’re spot on, we have to fight back with our humanity – what it truly means to be a living, loving, empathetic, social, human being.
Because this agenda is wickedly and profoundly anti human.
I bought the NME for about 25 years while I was still in New Zealand and then here in Australia. That was my bible! Reading up on all the gigs at all those iconic venues. Even that’s now gone, and I note quite a few of the NME’s former journalists reside at rags like The Guardian.
Thousands of businesses here in Melbourne are gone for good, especially in hospitality. In the next suburb to me alone, 3 hotels have closed for good. Same with a lot of cafes and restaurants.
Those pub rules are absolutely bonkers by the way. Madness rules, but we have to hold onto our essence, our spirit.
Im more of a shoegaze and psychedelic person: Slowdive, Pale Saints, Swervedriver, Engineers, Stone Roses, Ride, etc, but appreciate your link and will have a listen to AC. Cheers👍

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 3:28 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Hi Gezzah there you are. I was worrying about you because I haven’t seen your writings for a while, and wondered if the establishment had got hold of you, for I know they are stamping on everyone that doesn’t fit the bill in Australia.
Stay strong and keep fighting.
Cheers, Maggie x

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Sep 26, 2020 3:58 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Hi Maggie… appreciate your thoughts, and am still here, tho every now and again need to take a break for a week or so.
I haven’t seen any comments from you for ages either. Hope things are okay with you, and you’re keeping well.
Quite a lot of new names here as you would’ve noticed, especially in the last 3-4 months.
Things in Victoria have been really bad, and the cops have been like Gestapo thugs, lots of people arrested just for not wearing a facemask, curfews, Melbourne is sealed off with 17 checkpoints all round the perimeter of the city, and every vehicle is stopped, and police are also on trains leaving Melbourne, checking where passengers are going.
Yet other parts of Australia – like South Australia or Tasmania, things are virtually normal, like how they were a year ago.
Been watching a live stream of the protest at Trafalgar Square today. Massive turnout. Heartening to see!
Enjoy your weekend👍

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 8:55 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

Hey again G,
The contributors appear to have changed massively, and I can’t get my head around it. They seem to be trying to outdo one another with their verbiage, which in the end means nothing to me and goes over my head?
I read about the problems in Victoria and Melbourne and was pretty appalled. I cannot for the life of me see how the New World Order has progressed so quickly..
We are well on the way now.. They talked about bringing the six rule in on the 12th September, and stopped all comments on MSM articles on the same day???. Six days prior to the first protest????
I stopped watching any TV when the Covid Pantomime began. I researched MI6 assett Dominic Cummings, Bill Gates and the WHO and am satisfied that they are all evil, bent criminals.
I thoroughly researched the ‘plandemic’ and watched what the honest, sane people like Professor Delores Cahill, Dr Rashid Buttar, Dr Judy Makowitz and ex Dragon’s Den Dragon Rachel Elnough have said. Rachel’s observations really resonated with me.

My problem is that I have been waiting since June 2019, to have some investigations and a biopsy on my Pancreas and Liver, which was all stopped in March 2020, despite my having previously had cancer??
My youngest Grandson and I had a serious chest infection in November 2019 and after two weeks I tried to see a GP but was given another two week appointment for my own GP, so agreed to see another in THREE days??? I was very seriously ill and disoriented, so much so that I turned up too late for my appointment. The receptionist could see I was on my knees, and she knew my History, but turned me away and told me to make another appointment… I asked if I could see a GP if I waited, but NO! So I said I would go home and die then, and asked her to pass the message to my GP. I received absolutely no follow up. And spent another eight weeks ill and trying to medicate myself, with Whiskey/Lemon/Honey/and Ginger… Paracetamol and Ibuprofen, and cough linctus. We have no doubt that it was Covid that we had?? :-)) But I have not had one word from my Surgery.
And nothing from the Hospital for SIX months, so I again investigated how I could help myself.. And appear to have got my problem under control. So now the Hospital want me back, to experiment on me and get their per capita payment from the Government. But I am opting out. Call it cutting off my nose. But I have realised that I am no worse off without their intervention.. and will now wait my time to catch the next boat to my new life.. Until then my friend, I am an avid keyboard warrior, and am involved with my oldest Grandson age 10 who is now back at school receiving his daily dose of brainwashing, so I am countering everything and encouraging him to use his critical thinking, before the ‘teachers’ kill it. He asked me the other day if I thought Hitler was Evil? I said I didn’t know the man, I only knew what I had been told.. but I did know that war supresses the good in all men, and elevates the propensity for evil. And asked him how any Government could send young people to kill other young people who they didn’t know, and who had done nothing to them?. He said, ‘but Hitler did evil things to the Jews in concentration camps’ .I asked ‘did he, or was it the Soldiers?’ So we researched the Work camps and showed him that they lived in filthy conditions and that 99% of them were lice ridden and died in their millions indiscriminately, of Typhus, regardless of whether they were Jewish, Jehovah Witnesses, Gypsies, Gays, Romanies. Alcoholics, Deaf, Mentally impaired, all were subjected to the same inhumane treatment. And that even the German people and Soldiers suffered from the lack of nourishing food.
He asked me why Germany declared war. I told him that I believed it was US Jews who did this in 1933, by creating sanctions that limited German imports of oil and food which created malnutrition and hardship. Exactly as the US did against Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Syria etc…
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d2693f40062f.jpg
I asked him to think about how he would have solved this problem if he was Chancellor and his country was being bankrupted by reparation payments for WW1..and suggested he begin with the Treaty of Versailles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CguZY5gKyr4
I think it is vital that our young people grow up ‘critically thinking’ about things rather than learning by rote, and being indoctrinated by everything the corrupt Governments tell them.
Wow! That was some catch up. But way way off topic for Fish and Chips, lol. But right on topic for Andre?? I will probably be quiet now for another six months. But will be watching, God willing.
You take care there. I’ll be thinking of you. Collective consciousness is the only thing that will beat this Hydra…..
Mx

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Sep 27, 2020 8:44 AM
Reply to  Margaret

Hi Maggie… really sorry to hear about your medical issues. You’ve obviously been through a really rough time.
Appreciate those links as well, and as you say, there are ethical, moral medical people out there contradicting the bollocks in the MSM and the Govt, like Rashid Buttar, Judy Mikovits, Dolores Cahill, Dan Ericsson, et al.
I watched the excellent Plandemic documentary a while ago.
And I’m glad you’re teaching your grandson critical thinking coz a lot of adults have lost all capacity for critical or rational thinking!
Here in Melbourne, the vast majority have fully complied without even blinking and then attacked anyone opposed to the draconian measures!
Stockholm Syndrome on steroids here.
They are on their knees begging for their own enslavement which I find really hard to deal with. It’s depressing. They have willingly given up their freedoms and civil liberties for a sense of ‘keeping safe’.
It was really good to see so many at Trafalgar Square yesterday and I think, perhaps there is more resistance in the UK than here in Australia where people are too apathetic or don’t care unless it’s having a negative impact on their hip pocket.
The articles here at Offguardian have been a real godsend, and tons of relevant information and links.
Sadly, I know quite a few of the regular commenters from, say, a year ago at OffG swallowed the MSM narrative about the panicdemic and have since seen them on sites like Moon Of Alabama and Caitlin Johnstone, etc.
Sites who either fully side with the establishment and the WHO narrative, or almost pretend nothing is happening!
Lots of new commenters here, some who are quite troll like. Grrrr.
Anyway, I hope your Sunday is good and your week goes well. Take care Maggie✌️👍😁

Jellic
Jellic
Sep 23, 2020 10:22 PM

I’m very surprised you claim this chap as one of your own, I have not read any article here in the past few months that looked anything like ‘How Washington “Liberates” Free Countries’ by Andre Vltchek, from January, it seems like you guys may have had a change of ‘management‘ over the past few months.

Fish & Chips
Fish & Chips
Sep 24, 2020 5:29 AM
Reply to  Jellic

OffG has definitely changed as you highlight re Vltchek. It’s also poor form that they don’t put up any of Craig Murray’s outstanding court reporting from the Assange trial.

Kate
Kate
Sep 24, 2020 8:41 AM
Reply to  Fish & Chips

I’d like to hear from Admin on this point as Craig Murray makes it clear on his reporting of the Assange hearing that anyone can republish his work.

Jogging
Jogging
Sep 24, 2020 3:08 PM
Reply to  Kate

You may be asking GCHQ to respond to you now, I think they are in control here now.

Arby
Arby
Sep 24, 2020 2:11 PM
Reply to  Fish & Chips

As soon as I commented on Craig’s website, asking him whether he believes that there’s a pandemic, I was unceremoniously shooed away. The betrayals pile up.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 5:20 PM
Reply to  Arby

Shooed away from where Arby… That doesn’t make any sense?

Arby
Arby
Sep 28, 2020 5:51 PM
Reply to  Margaret

I was directed to some sort of forum that was lifeless. I forget exactly what happened but it may have been the case that I didn’t even voluntarily go to the forum. I was just shifted into it with the message, more or less, that I was off topic. I hadn’t seen the cold forum I was sent to before. ‘That’ didn’t make any sense. But it happened.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 28, 2020 5:19 PM
Reply to  Fish & Chips

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-10/

There you are F&C and Kate.. a simple click of a button and you have the information to hand.
No need for approval from OffG. That is what OffG stands for, freedom of speech and expression….

Admin2
Admin
Admin2
Sep 24, 2020 4:00 PM
Reply to  Jellic

I think the argument that the world has changed around us, rather than that we’ve changed in any particular way, is a fair one. I can assure you, whether you put any store in my opinion or not, there has been zero change of ‘management’ here. Thanks, A2

Francesca
Francesca
Sep 24, 2020 8:34 PM
Reply to  Jellic

I used to visit this site for its wide ranging commentary after I got kicked off the Guardian comment section (when they had one)
But now its become almost totally obsessed with Covid 19 and I really can’t be bothered .
I was hoping there’d be something more about Navalny or Assange but its wall to wall nutcases now, and stupid arguments between commenters
What a waste!

Jane in France
Jane in France
Sep 24, 2020 10:12 PM
Reply to  Francesca

Craig Murray is good on the subject of Assange. Moon of Alabama has resumed normal service and is good on Navalny. But I think it is impossible not to obsess about covid at the moment when it is disrupting life as we know it.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 9:00 PM
Reply to  Jane in France

Jane, You can just ignore it.. and get on with your life. It is a vile hoax designed to control the sheep.
Covid is nothing more than flu.. full stop! And it does kill old vulnerable people with compromised immunities like me… but I’m still here, and grateful for every precious moment I have with my family and friends. Flatly refuse to take part in their game .

Charlotte Russe
Charlotte Russe
Sep 23, 2020 9:55 PM

Surprising, that mainstream media news didn’t say Vltchek died from Novichok……..

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 23, 2020 10:54 PM

or COVID.

Fish & Chips
Fish & Chips
Sep 24, 2020 5:30 AM

You surely mean Portonchok

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 9:49 PM
Reply to  Fish & Chips

No Fish and Chips, Novichuckle… though it was created in Porton Down which is run by the CIA. But they got the quantities wrong??? Typical. Sounds like a bungling Boris cock up…
One of the scientists who was involved in developing the nerve agent which the UK referred to as “Novichok” – Vladimir Uglev, formerly a scientist with Volsk branch of GOSNIIOKHT (“State Scientific-Research Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology”), which developed and tested production of new lethal substances since 1972, spoke for the first time about his work as early as the 1990s. He left the institute in 1994 and is now retired – In order to make it easier to understand the subject matter, I will not use the name “Novichok” which is now commonly used by everyone to describe those four substances which were conditionally assigned to me to develop over a period of several years. Three of these substances are part of the “Foliant” program, which was led by Pyotr Kirpichev, a scientist with GOSNIIOKHT (State Scientific-Research Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology). The first substance of a new class of organophosphorous chemical agents, I will call it “A-1972”, was developed by Kirpichev in 1972. In 1976, I developed two substances: “B-1976” and “C-1976”. The fourth substance, “D-1980”, was developed by Kirpichev in the early 1980s. All of these substances fall under the group referred to as “Novichkov”, but that name wasn’t given to the substances by GOSNIIOKHT.
In contrast to former GOSNIIOKHT scientist Vil Mirzayanov, who emigrated to the U.S. in 2000 and is the author of the book “State Secrets: An Insider’s Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program”, Uglev didn’t leave Russia. Mirzayanov gave several interviews over the past few days; these interviews provided most of what is known about “Novichok”. Russian authorities did not officially confirm the development of these nerve agents, actually, quite the opposite: on the 17th of March, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Maria Zakharova stated that there was never, not in Russia, nor in the USSR, “any research which was called or had the code name ‘Novichok’.” Zakharova also named the U.S., UK and other countries as the most likely sources of the chemical agents.
https://thebell.io/en/the-scientist-who-developed-novichok-doses-ranged-from-20-grams-to-several-kilos/
However, RIA Novosti published an interview today with a person called Leonid Rink, who is also identified in the text as the “developer of ‘Novichok’.” Speaking to the news agency RIA Novosti, Rink also dismissed a theory that someone planted “Novichok” poison in the suitcase of Skripal’s daughter in Moscow, before she flew to London. The nerve agent would have had immediate effects, he says, and Yulia Skripal wouldn’t have survived the flight. Rink also accused the British of manufacturing their own supply of Novichok..
https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/03/20/one-of-the-russian-inventors-of-novichok-says-russia-isn-t-to-blame-also-he-may-have-sold-poisons-from-his-garage-in-the-1990
– The British, just like the Germans, are excellent chemists who can with one hint do what in Moscow is classified as top secret. In addition, the secret was already 20 years old in 1993. So the question should be directed to those specialists charged with protecting state secrets: is it possible to keep such information secret without any leaks?

Rhys Jaggar
Rhys Jaggar
Sep 24, 2020 8:27 AM

Whilst authorities are treating his death as ‘suspicious’, he had ongoing conditions which may ultimately be shown to be linked to his death….

Gin
Gin
Sep 24, 2020 8:43 AM

Andre was diabetic, and there was insulin involved, same as how the actor Navalny’s scenario began.. Only later, when the German military became involved, did ‘novichok’ rear its ugly head.. The storyline takes time to develop..

Sally
Sally
Sep 23, 2020 9:49 PM
paul_m
paul_m
Sep 23, 2020 9:21 PM

ramin mazaheri spoke with andre’s wife who told him he died peacefully in his sleep.apparently having had problems with diabetes.he is irreplaceable.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 23, 2020 9:09 PM

If they are treating his death as suspicious, who had he upset the most? I had never heard of him. Strange that a socialist should be assassinated in our Commie world.

Mr Y
Mr Y
Sep 23, 2020 9:53 PM

“Strange that a socialist should be assassinated in our Commie world.”

What?!

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 23, 2020 10:32 PM
Reply to  Mr Y

Do you actually believe there are any powerful right wing governed nations in existence today – apart from Turkey? If so, feel free to name them. I enjoy a good laugh before bed time.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 23, 2020 10:55 PM

I enjoy a good laugh before bed time.

Just read your own posts.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 8:14 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Try making an argument.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 9:08 AM

Why? You didn’t.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 11:43 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I asked a question that you obviously couldn’t answer. Far better than any argument.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 12:25 PM

Governments are there to maintain and protect the capitalist system. “Free” Western populations get to vote for puppets funded by the capitalists. Anyone who offers a serious threat to this will be dealt with through propagandist destruction. If that doesn’t suffice then a few little mishaps will be arranged. Utimately a convenient “lone nut” will oblige.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 1:24 PM
Reply to  George Mc

“The establishment of a central bank is 90% of communising a nation.” – V. I. Lenin

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 1:54 PM

Which is happening here anyway. So if you want to redefine “communism” as “capitalism” then go ahead.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 2:27 PM
Reply to  George Mc

No redefinition is required, Communism and Capitalism have always gone hand in hand.

Here are the top six Planks of The Communist Manifesto:
1) A Private Central Bank
2) A Graduated Income Tax
3) A State Conditioning (Education) System
4) A State Health Care (Disease Management) System
5) A State Welfare System
6) Abolition of privately owned property.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 3:29 PM

Point 6 negates capitalism.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 3:35 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Not if you con people into thinking that they own property when they don’t.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 9:53 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Please George,
Don’t feed the TROLL.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 2:05 PM
Reply to  George Mc

What makes you think Capitalism is right wing?

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 3:28 PM

I don’t.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 3:33 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Glad to hear it.

Fish & Chips
Fish & Chips
Sep 24, 2020 5:32 AM

The United States of America

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 8:06 AM
Reply to  Fish & Chips

“Democrats (Neo-liberals) are Stalinists and Republicans (Neo-Cons) are Trotskyists”

— Eustace Mullins

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 8:28 AM

Oh I forgot – and ISRAEL!

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 9:55 PM

There we go… it is a Hasbara TROLL.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 27, 2020 6:26 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Please engage your brain before commenting.

Gin
Gin
Sep 24, 2020 8:51 AM

Approximately 170; not all of them powerful, by any means..

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 11:44 AM
Reply to  Gin

Give me one example.

Tom Welsh
Tom Welsh
Sep 24, 2020 3:25 PM

The terms “right wing” and “left wing” date from the 18th century, and retained some meaning until about 50 years ago.

Today their only purpose is to confuse and distract gullible people.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 3:32 PM
Reply to  Tom Welsh

Confusing only in as much that the right never existed.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 8:05 PM

Confusing only in as much that the right never existed.”

MARVELOUSLY preposterous bullshit! Do you think (e.g.) The Klan were (are) a LEFT WING phenomenon? Do you think Curtis LeMay was a LEFT WING general, or Spiro T. Agnew a LEFT-WING politician along with the famously “LEFT WING” Ronald Reagan? Do you think Michael Parenti and Joan Baez and Mario Savio were/are RIGHT WINGERS? Laugh.

You’re totally forgiven if you are an under-40 who has never had contact with a genuinely Left Wing person and is therefore easily duped by Right Wingers adopting “progressive causes” (the trans movement, “global warming,” Veganism et al) to Trojan Horse long-game Right Wing goals but… okay. Time to catch up with this shit. The Enemy is subtle and slippery and very VERY good at lying. This isn’t a schoolyard… these Lies have huge budgets and Think Tank strategies to support them. Thinking like gullibly innocent kids will get us duped and caged in no time at all.

Remember this, too: “Capitalism” and “Communism” are tools from two different sides of the same fucking tool shed. The essence of both: Control. The targets? US (the Serfs).

Dwell on that for a bit…

Messenger Charles
Messenger Charles
Sep 25, 2020 6:52 PM

When were the Klan ever in power?

Now you dwell on this:
“When we get ready to take the United States, we will not take it under the labels of Communism; we will not take it under the label of Socialism. These labels are unpleasant to the American people, and have been speared too much. We will take the United States under labels we have made very lovable; we will take it under liberalism, under progressivism, under democracy. But, take it, we will.”

— The Jew, Alexander Trachtenberg (1885-1966) at the National Convention of Communist Parties, Madison Square Garden, 1944

And this:
“Democrats (Neo-liberals) are Stalinists and Republicans (Neo-Cons) are Trotskyists”

— Eustace Mullins

Then have a look at this – your current Trotskyist President giving the Commie clenched fist salute:
https://www.minds.com/media/916279490070208512

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 25, 2020 8:25 PM

(I’m going to play along, although I’m beginning to suspect you’re on the Sunstein Squad)

When were the Klan ever in power?”

I’m glad you asked that question, Sir!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 26, 2020 6:28 PM

And they held a majority? Your non-argument is a joke.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 26, 2020 7:09 PM

Okay then! Next…? May I please argue with a Flat Earther now…?

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 27, 2020 6:14 PM

Clear off and find one and while you’re at it try and find an argument.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 9:59 PM

Ahhh.. the penny drops?
It is a TROLL you are engaging with.

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 27, 2020 6:16 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Ah, the troll ad hominem, sure sign of another loser with no argument.

Steven Augustine
Steven Augustine
Sep 24, 2020 7:53 PM
Reply to  Tom Welsh

Well, ignore the semantics and all the super-slick mindgames practised by obvious Right Wing Moles like The Clintons (and Fidel… drum roll… Castro! Laugh! Maybe I went too far this time) and focus on the primal definitions: The Right Wing are pro-war and pro-slavery and the Left Wing are the opposite. No matter how many games they play (like using smiling people of color as the hood ornaments on their Global Death Juggernauts), the Right Wing are obvious… and obviously running every nation on Earth. As they have been for centuries. The Left are a noble micro-minority; we are Mutants. Don’t allow TFIC to blur the issue for you!

“The beginning of wisdom,” said Confucius, “is to call things by their proper name.”

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 9:57 PM
Reply to  Tom Welsh

And you fell for it Tom…. It is typical TROLL distraction… Please stop feeding it.

Margaret
Margaret
Sep 26, 2020 9:52 PM

Messenger TROLL ALERT!!!!

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 27, 2020 6:19 PM
Reply to  Margaret

Get an education and come back in five years.

DONNIE
DONNIE
Sep 23, 2020 11:09 PM
Reply to  Mr Y

he says he lives in his commie world

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 8:12 AM
Reply to  DONNIE

Our Commie world, not my Commie world.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 12:26 PM

“Our” Commie world? Watch out! That’s a bit collectivist!

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 1:23 PM
Reply to  George Mc

That’s the accursed world I am forced to live in. I know it, you don’t, but instead either live in denial or in your delusions.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 3:30 PM

Damn straight! Imagine having to share a world with other people!

messenger charles
messenger charles
Sep 24, 2020 4:11 PM
Reply to  George Mc

In a Communist world the people have a share in nothing.

George Mc
George Mc
Sep 24, 2020 8:37 PM

So no change there then.