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The Myth of “Anti-Semitic Violence”

Michael Lesher

The claim that the world is awash in an outbreak of Jew-hatred is a myth – a fiction cynically recycled every few years as a cover for Israeli brutality.

That’s easily said. Still, with so many falsehoods parading as news these days, why single out the lie that Jews are “under attack” in what mainstream media monotonously call a “wave of anti-Semitic violence”? Why not just ignore it and move on?

First, because this particular lie is peddled by so powerful an array of propagandists, and swallowed by so many well-meaning people, that a prompt corrective is needed to set the record straight.

Second, and even more importantly, because the lie is part of an organized campaign to turn reality upside down – to convert supporters of Israeli violence into victims, to blame the real victims for their own suffering, and to subordinate the whole issue of Palestinian human rights to the self-serving dictates of an Israeli-driven propaganda machine as to what does and doesn’t offend delicate Jewish “sensibilities.”

If we allow that kind of lie to stand unchallenged, we’re (quite literally) helping Israel get away with murder.

Not that you’d know any of this from mainstream media. At the moment, it’s almost impossible to find a “respectable” outlet that isn’t brimming with warnings about a worldwide threat to the Jews – and the fact that the same claim has been peddled before, and debunked before, doesn’t seem to bother the purveyors in the slightest.

Yet there really ought to be a few raised eyebrows over the gulf dividing the alarmist tone of the “reports” – “violence and harassment targeting American Jews…coast-to-coast” (BBC); “anti-Semitic attacks and slurs in several American cities” (PBS); “a wave of antisemitic attacks…violence and abhorrent rhetoric” (National Public Radio); “Jews have been threatened and attacked” (New York Times) – from the remarkably murky details purportedly proving them.

The May 26 issue of Ami Magazine, a popular Orthodox Jewish weekly, claims to have information about “several scuffles…including in Toronto, Montreal and New York” and insists that “Jews were beaten at several of these events.”

Ah, but which ones? Ami avoids giving specifics – and a closer look suggests that the facts aren’t on offer because they don’t exist.

Consider Toronto. What was originally described as an “anti-Semitic attack” in that city turned out to have been a fracas instigated by the notorious Jewish Defense League – listed by the FBI as a terrorist organization – in which the Jew identified as the “victim” first swung a large club, then brandished a knife, before being “attacked.” (That didn’t stop Ontario Premier Doug Ford from condemning “anti-Semitism” after the event – a statement he refused to withdraw even when presented with video evidence of the behavior of the “victim.”)

And Montreal? The circumstances of that “attack” are scarcely less turbid. The claims of “violence” against Jews were reported entirely by pro-Israel organizations and their supporters; given the heavy police presence in the area at the time, the absence of corroborating testimony renders the story rather hard to credit.

Meanwhile, a similar report of an “anti-Semitic attack” in Los Angeles (also cited in Ami) was promptly debunked by Richard Silverstein, whose Tikun Olam blog has an excellent track record for accuracy. Here is Silverstein’s report as of May 25:

You may have read about the purported “wave” of anti-Semitic incidents sweeping the world in response to Israel’s attack on Gaza. Don’t you believe it. One of the main incidents supposedly involved a group of Jews eating outdoors at an LA sushi restaurant. The media narrative says that a car full of Palestinians waving the Palestinian fla[g] shouted “fuck you” at the diners and then threw a bottle at them.

My LA Jewish friends who’ve seen video of the incident and spoken to Palestinians involved (who were never interviewed by the media) say that a group of right-wing Iranian Jews saw the car with the flags, shouted “fuck you” at the Palestinians, then threw a bottle from their table at the car.

No wonder Ami doesn’t bother trying to present evidence of that “anti-Semitic attack.”

New York Assemblyman Dov Hikind – a protégé of convicted terrorist Rabbi Meir Kahane – claims to have identified another “victim of anti-Jewish violence” in Las Vegas.

But to eyes less biased than Hikind’s, the facts tell a different story.

By his own account, the “victim” – a Jew from Staten Island – accosted a Palestinian family he encountered at the MGM Casino with the boast that he too is “from Palestine” (he isn’t), and that “Jews have been around for 5,000 years” (they haven’t), adding that he is a “proud Jew” – meaning, evidently, that he supported Israel’s theft of Palestinian land and the massacre Israel was perpetrating in order to secure it. It seems this taunt angered the Palestinian man sufficiently to induce him to push his interlocutor backward, causing him to fall – whereupon the “proud Jew” called the police.

As if being shoved in a casino after bragging about your fondness for racist violence weren’t proof enough of universal Jew-hatred, the “victim” points angrily to the fact that the police are “only” charging his assailant with “battery.” He thinks he suffered a “hate crime” – though from my point of view there’s more “hate” in endorsing mass murder than in getting upset about it.

Anyway, if that’s the horrific “anti-Jewish violence” that’s supposed to be sweeping America, I’m not panicking.

In fact, if the consequences weren’t so sinister, some of the hoopla would be almost funny.

One story making the rounds in mainstream media alleges an “attack” on an empty kosher pizzeria located on Manhattan’s posh Upper East Side. As far as I can tell, all that’s known is that someone damaged the front door during the night – there’s no evidence of a motive, let alone an anti-Semitic motive. But when Israel needs cover stories, a damaged glass door is a Big Deal: the Anti-Defamation League is said to be “working with law-enforcement officials to investigate the incident,” while Ben Kallos, a Jewish member of New York City Council, added: “This is happening everywhere…. People are in fear all over our city.”

By way of contrast, when the owner of the Foodbenders grocery in Toronto was subjected last year to a systematic campaign of harassment, vandalism and threats for posting comments supportive of occupied Palestine in a shop window, the police refused to act – even when video clearly showed an identifiable woman defacing Foodbenders’ front door with spray-painted graffiti. Meanwhile, local politicians attacked the owner, calling her expressions of sympathy for Palestinians “disgusting,” “hateful,” “abhorrent” and “unacceptable.” Double standards, anyone?

If these fictions about “anti-Semitic violence” have a familiar ring, they should: Israel’s mouthpieces have been telling the same tall tales for years. In May 2002, just in time to divert public attention from Israel’s escalating terror campaign in the occupied West Bank (where, in less than a month, Israeli forces killed nearly 500 Palestinians and demolished 878 homes), a Zionist professor at San Francisco State University claimed to have seen an “out of control mob” launch “a raw, physical assault” on “praying [Jewish] students, and the elderly women…who survived the Holocaust.”

The “Palestinians and their supporters,” she wrote, were “literally chanting for our deaths,” while “the police could do nothing more than surround the Jewish students and community members who were now trapped in the corner of a plaza, grouped under the flags of Israel.”

That this story was fabricated – a fact the redoubtable scholar Norman Finkelstein confirmed simply by checking with Jewish eyewitnesses – did not prevent it from being repeatedly broadcast as fact in “worldwide media venues,” as the Jewish Journal boasted within two weeks of the professor’s account.

Media complicity in the propaganda campaign is another persistent component of the problem – a point Finkelstein underscored in his book Beyond Chutzpah. In 2003, as Israel completed its brutal suppression of the Second Intifada, the “progressive” Jewish magazine Tikkun announced that America was experiencing a “virulent new strain” of “anti-Semitism.”

The proof? “A Jewish student wearing a yarmulke at Yale University is attacked by a Palestinian in his dormitory,” shrilled the article’s lead paragraph.

But Finkelstein found that “no one at Yale’s Center for Jewish Life or the university administration had ever heard of such an assault.”

Embarrassing, wouldn’t you think? But if the author of that lie, one Miriam Greenspan, or Tikkun, the publisher, learned a lesson about inventing “anti-Jewish violence” where none exists, you wouldn’t know it from their behavior. Sixteen years later, Greenspan was still complaining in prominent media about “the PC brand of antisemitic anti-Zionism that flourishes today, in which the ancient animosity toward Jews as a ‘race’ has been transposed to Israel as a nation.”

Meanwhile, Tikkun’s Rabbi Michael Lerner was pontificating that “a growing section of progressives are in fact legitimating anti-Semitic tropes,” such as the claim that Israel is a “central ally of global imperialism.” Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

I myself exposed media complicity in another pogrom-that-wasn’t – on the blog site of the Times of Israel, no less. Once again, the context was an Israeli massacre – this time in July 2014, when the assault Israel cynically dubbed “Protective Edge” had already claimed 150 of the more than 2,100 Gazan lives it would obliterate that summer.

Once again, slaughtered Palestinians were upstaged in the press by hysterical reports that a mob of anti-Semites had attacked a Paris synagogue on Bastille Day,while helpless Jews “cowered” inside.

In fact, the synagogue was never attacked at all; the violence was started by Jewish hoodlums who assaulted a group of demonstrators engaged in a noisy but nonviolent protest in the street outside. I haven’t seen any retractions of the original (false) story, though. As far as mainstream media are concerned, stories alleging anti-Semitic attacks don’t require proof – they are true by definition.

Even when not manufactured out of whole cloth, the tales of Jew-hatred are seldom what they seem. In the last two weeks, the New York press has been agog with horrified accounts of a man who started a fire outside a Brooklyn yeshiva and punched a Hasidic man a few hours later. As it happens, there is surveillance video evidence supporting the story.

But the suspect, Ali Alaheri, is also accused of burning an American flag outside a Catholic church and knocking over an image of Jesus in the week prior to the alleged arson at the yeshiva. What is more – though this isn’t mentioned in any of the articles I’ve read – court records show that Alaheri, while in prison on other charges in 2019, was held on a “suicide watch” and was described by a judge as having “significant mental health issues.”

So, while it’s possible that his latest acts reflected anti-Semitism, they’re more likely just the products of a disturbed mind. But don’t expect to learn that from the press.

The editorial bias that makes these bogus stories possible extends to the media’s uncritical reliance on dubious “sources.” When New York City’s Mayor Bill de Blasio promised enhanced police protection for “Jewish communities” on May 23, he was standing alongside Rabbi Bernard Freilich, according to the Jerusalem Post, which also claimed that America is experiencing “the worst anti-Semitic attacks in decades.”

“Antisemitism has to be stopped immediately,” Rabbi Freilich piously added. “It’s just out of control.”

Freilich ought to know something about being “out of control.” In 2011, the rabbi abruptly “submitted his resignation” from a $100,000-a-year job with the New York State Police after he was caught misusing a police badge, a vehicle placard and a set of emergency lights. In any other context, that kind of history might impair his credibility – but you won’t see it mentioned when he’s adding weight to an Israel-inspired propaganda blitz.

Actually, the sheer mendacity of the pro-atrocity campaign is getting so extreme that, apart from shady political fixers like Freilich, Jewish media are having trouble finding mouthpieces unscrupulous enough to fabricate the PR. So we find the latest issue of Ami Magazine relying on a non-Jewish ex-spook named John Loftus for the bizarre claim that Associated Press and Al Jazeera reporters deliberately “looked the other way every single time” Hamas fighters in Gaza aimed mortar rounds at “Israeli school buses full of children” (yes, really), thus rendering the journalists and their employers “complicit” in “war crimes.”

And just who is John Loftus? Well, the most notorious point of his media career occurred when, during an interview on Fox News, he gave out the address of a suburban Los Angeles home with the false claim that it contained a “terrorist,” forcing an innocent family of five to obtain police protection. (Fox called this a “careless error,” but quickly dropped Loftus as a “contributor.”)

Using a guy like that to proclaim Jewish innocence by manufacturing evidence-free conspiracy theories is scraping the bottom of a pretty filthy barrel. But apparently Loftus is kosher as long as he’s whitewashing the right criminals – that is, Jewish ones.

The bottom line? Whenever Israel is dropping bombs on helpless people, and you read in the press that “Jews are under attack,” or that there is a world-wide “wave of anti-Semitic violence,” you can be pretty sure you’re being lied to.

And not just because the “facts” in those stories are generally falsified or embellished.

There’s a deeper problem, too.

The message underlying all the propaganda never varies: Jewish discomfort is somehow the fault of Palestinians and their supporters – “anti-Semitism” is something critics of Israel must either “distance themselves from” or be tarred with. If Jews don’t like the sound of Palestinian activism, the activists need to justify themselves to the satisfaction of the Jews. Otherwise there is no merit in their defense of Palestinian rights, leaving Israel the aggrieved party by default.

Yet the truth is exactly the reverse of this. Jews have never had anything to fear from pro-Palestinian activism. On the contrary: Israel’s propagandists (politicians, pundits, “journalists” included) are not only complicit in Israel’s crimes against Palestinians; they are far and away the most powerful fomenters of anti-Semitism in the world today.

For it is the apologists for Israeli violence, not Palestinians, who scream from every media platform that Jews, by definition, must be criminals: that “Jewish identity” entails the oppression of non-Jews, the theft of their land, the confinement of whole populations in squalid ghettos where they are periodically massacred.

It is Israel’s “supporters,” not Palestinians, who insist that all criticism of Israeli atrocities necessarily offends Jews – who must, ex hypothesi, be defenders of mass murder, torture and apartheid. It is they, not Palestinians, who deny that Jews with ethical principles can really be Jews at all. It is they who equate Judaism with land theft and Jewish identity with ethnic supremacism.

Can there possibly be a more anti-Semitic teaching than this? Anyone who is genuinely concerned about anti-Jewish bigotry is simply wasting time talking about Palestinian activists (whose leading figures, in any case, have scrupulously excluded anti-Semitism from the movement).

The real target should be the pro-Israel crowd that, as I write, is aggressively propagandizing the world with the claim that the word “Jew” and the phrase “lawless, bloody occupier of other people’s territory” mean one and the same thing.

Which brings me to the case of Joseph Borgen. In the midst of all the media fakery about “anti-Semitic violence,” Borgen, a young Long Island accountant, lays claim to being just about the only Jew who has actually experienced a verifiable physical attack in the last few weeks that may have been motivated, in part, by his religious affiliation.

But what actually happened?

According to Borgen’s own account (reported in fawning detail by Ami Magazine), he was on his way to a pro-Israel demonstration in Times Square on May 20 – wearing a yarmulke – when, just “a couple of blocks away from the rally,” he was suddenly surrounded by “a crowd of people” who beat and kicked him, and then “proceed[ed] to mace and pepper spray me” before police arrived. He suffered minor injuries, was treated at Bellevue Hospital, and was released later that same night. As least one arrest has already been made in the case; police are still seeking other suspects.

Ami’s headline for the story is nothing short of hysterical: “ATTACKED by Anti-Semites!” (Yes, the capital letters and exclamation point all appear in the original.)

A bit of historical perspective is in order. The day American hostages, newly released from Iran, reached American soil in January 1981, the New York Times – the same newspaper that is convulsed with indignation if a Jewish supporter of Israeli atrocities gets his hat knocked off – editorialized that there should be “rage and revulsion” in the streets of the US, where Iranian students bold enough to stage pro-Khomeini demonstrations (according to Newsweek) had already been subject to “violent” treatment that included attacks with baseball bats. Khomeini, with all his faults, was guilty of nothing worse than the crimes Israel commits regularly against Palestinians – but the Times considered “rage and revulsion” appropriate ways to deal with people who rallied in his support.

Woody Allen, always an accurate bellwether of orthodox liberal opinion, was even more direct in his 1979 film Manhattan. “Has anybody read that Nazis are gonna march in New Jersey,” he asks in one scene. “We should go there, get some guys together. Get some bricks and baseball bats and explain things to ‘em.” A woman – one of Allen’s stereotypical, myopic bluestockings – mentions a “devastating satirical piece on that in the Times,” to which Allen tartly replies, “Well, a satirical piece in the Times is one thing, but bricks get right to the point.”

For the record, I don’t agree with Allen. Violence breeds violence, and throwing bricks (at whatever target) can only end by elevating the sort of people who prefer brick-throwing to civilization – not the elements we want to strengthen. But I have never sat in a movie audience that didn’t laugh appreciatively at Allen’s suggestion that Nazis deserve a little roughing up.

So where does that leave the Jewish accountant who was so fond of racist brutality that he dropped everything he was doing on May 20 to publicly demonstrate his support for it?

In a 1990 interview, the respected Israeli intellectual Yeshayahu Leibowitz – who was also a religious Jew – warned that Israel was becoming “a Judeo-Nazi state.” Noting that “the Israeli Defense Force, armed to the teeth by American weapons, has assassinated 150 [Palestinian] children in the past two years alone,” Leibowitz insisted that the word “Nazi” was the only appropriate word to describe its conduct:

The minister of Defense [Yitzhak Rabin] who gave the order to break the arms and legs of Palestinian prisoners is a Nazi…And the president of the High Court [Moshe Landau], who judged that torturing prisoners was allowed, is a Nazi.”

I cannot gainsay Leibowitz’s reasoning. So let us use plain language to describe inescapable facts. The Times Square demonstration – the purpose of which was to flaunt Jewish support for crimes against humanity – was a Nazi rally. The Jews who organized it were Nazis. For his eagerness to attend, Joseph Borgen, if not actually a Nazi, was at least a Nazi sympathizer.

And according to the moral standards endorsed by the New York Times, by Woody Allen, and by all of Allen’s liberal admirers, Borgen got off rather lightly under the circumstances: he was kicked and pepper-sprayed, but not clobbered with bricks or baseball bats.

To repeat: I do not endorse that standard. Even Nazis have rights. I think it is entirely proper for Borgen’s assailants to be prosecuted.

But anyone who expects me to be shocked or outraged because one supporter of mass murder got slapped around in Times Square is barking up the wrong tree. What is outrageous is not that someone took a swing at Borgen next door to a Nazi rally he couldn’t wait to join. What is outrageous is that Jews organized a Nazi rally in the first place. That so many Jews enthusiastically attended it makes it doubly outrageous.

“The photos and videos are horrifying,” Ami Magazine declares in the same issue that laments the attack on Borgen. But the “photos and videos” its editors have in mind aren’t of the carnage inflicted by the Holy State on the men, women and children of Gaza. They’re of a handful of Jews who may have paid a small price for the Israeli teaching that Judaism is a violent, racist cult. For Ami and its fellow propagandists, only supporters of violence can be victims; the real victims – Palestinians – are simply nonpersons.

This appalling inversion of moral priorities gives the clue to the real nature of the myth of “anti-Semitic violence.” The myth is not just a distortion of facts. It is a grotesque revaluation of the most basic moral tenets; it makes “victims” of oppressors and converts truth-telling into bigotry.

That’s why we should not dignify the myth with a moment’s pause – let alone respond to it with our own condemnations of “anti-Semitism,” however tempting this may be to decent people who want to stress their freedom from bigotry. To allow phony “anti-Semitism” claims to dominate the public discourse about Palestine – especially under the circumstances we face now, as Israel moves from crime to bloody crime – is only to encourage the propagandists and to betray the Palestinians who await with dread the next Israeli onslaught.

The right approach is perfectly simple.

Denounce the crimes. Resist the criminals. Tell the truth. Support the victims.

And do not stop. Whatever the liars may say.

Michael Lesher is an author, poet and lawyer whose legal work is mostly dedicated to issues connected with domestic abuse and child sexual abuse. His latest nonfiction book is Sexual Abuse, Shonda and Concealment in Orthodox Jewish Communities (McFarland & Co., 2014); his first collection of poetry, Surfaces, was published by The High Window in 2019. A memoir of his discovery of Orthodox Judaism as an adult – Turning Back: The Personal Journey of a “Born-Again” Jew – was published in September 2020 by Lincoln Square Books.

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Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 5, 2021 8:44 PM

UPDATED (again) PINNED ADMIN COMMENT

Please read before commenting

Please reflect that, while there is clearly a huge campaign to associate legit criticism of Israel with ‘antisemitism’ claiming “the Joos”, en masse, as a race are behind this is an absurdly self-defeating argument of the worst kind.

This is NOT the point if the article and if you claim it is as fact you are

1.handing the elites the ammunition they are hoping you will give them and

2.betraying your own genuine antisemitism.

I am specifically talking about people who use a scholarly and worthwhile critique like this one, of how ‘antisemitism’ has been weaponized as a cover for wholesale attacks on the entire Jewish race/culture/faith, up to and including calls for their mass murder.

People are freer to express their opinions on here than on any comparable site. We work hard to tread the line between managing trolls and allowing real commenters to have their say. But no, that doesn’t extend to spouting generic race hate.

If you feel the lack of that then you are free to find a group of likeminded people who enjoy using infantile pejoratives for their fellow humans and/or want to see them slaughtered for their ethnicity. It will never have a home here.

We get 20,000-100,000 visitors a day. These racist freaks are a noisy but tiny minority of this community, even if they do use VPNs in order to create multiple up or down votes.

I have further clarified this statement as requested by the editors.

Sophie

Travis
Travis
Jun 6, 2021 6:17 PM

Thank you for having the guts to tell the truth on this controversial issue. It’s the one no one wants to touch.

You should probably do something about your admin Sophie calling you anti-semitic in the comments with your own logo as her avatar, though. I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess she’s a Jew.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 6:18 PM
Reply to  Travis

Thanks. We’ve decided to leave this here as a perfect example of my point.

Travis
Travis
Jun 6, 2021 6:22 PM

I notice my comment regarding the extreme Jewish supremacist racism in the Talmud isn’t appearing. Are you Jewish, Sophie?

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 6, 2021 11:40 PM

Thank you for clarifying your point Sophie as requested. Kudos.
I have been monitoring comments for 5 years. Two topics stood out by sheer number.

This.
And innumerable variants on
“George Soros is the devil.”
Yeah. That one. But I will avoid going off topic.
What I wanted to say is these literally caused a few sites to get rid of comments. In fact most sites have either eliminated or use a third party service.
This is a rapidly evolving area. Your unique style is one I have seen before watch out for.
You engage with your community while using a firm hand. I recommend it.
Kindest regards.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 6, 2021 11:41 PM

*eliminated comments* *and watch out for*

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 7, 2021 12:17 AM

The George Soros comment is slander. Valid comments about comparisons of racism in various groups, whether religious and racial in terms of the Germans or religious in terms of the Israelis, do not fall into the same category.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 9:56 PM
Reply to  Roslyn Ross

NP. I had no idea who he was at the time and was trying to predict his profile from RT comments alone.
There wasn’t much to go on aside from the quantity of hate.
Then (and only then) I researched the guy.
Okay…. so not the Devil…. but what a guy. Yikes.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 10:06 PM

The story of how George, a young teen, was hidden and survived the war.
That being used against him was among the worst kinds of antisemitism I encountered.
His station in life is irrelevant.
His regime change behavior he is accountable for. And trying to ruin economies.
His religion is irrelevant there.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 9:49 PM

Sheesh… I am trying to design a privacy free speech platform where you decided what garbage you have to look at.
Me thinks A1 might see why.
Anyways, give me break. 😉

Lena Bloch
Lena Bloch
Jun 7, 2021 5:02 PM

Sophie, you are Jewish, I am Jewish, Michael Lesher is Jewish. Why did you choose to defend Zionism from criticism? Branding criticism of supremacist ideology as “antisemitic” because it is Jewish? Why other Jewish people see the truth and you don’t, why did you choose to protect Jewish supremacists from exposure? For example, you are White. Would you do the same against an author of anti-White-supremacism article, accusing him of anti-Whiteness, of White-hatred? My questions are rhetorical. Obviously, you pretend (as Zionists do, too) that “all Jews” are one homogeneous mass, that to condemn one group of Jews is the same as “blame all Jews”. This is ridiculous. Jews are human beings. They have Nazis, anti-Nazis, supremacists, anti-supremacists, chauvinists, anti-chauvinists, Gentile-hating and universalists among them. It is essential to root out the evil. No matter among Jews or among other human identity groups.

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jun 7, 2021 5:13 PM
Reply to  Lena Bloch

Sophie did no such thing. Surely the admin’s religion or ethnicity is irrelevant, by your own reasoning, so why mention it? You mean Lesher, Sophie and yourself are three individuals. Stop talking hysterical nonsense. Stop saying people said things they didn’t say. Stop trying to whip up controversy. Classic trolling tactic. It is so arse-achingly obvious and boring. Actually open your eyes and read the article/comments. Or shut up. Either way it’s fine with me. A2

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 10:19 PM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

Hysteria? Projection? Satire? Wtf was that???
Anyway… that was nothing Sam. It’s groups of humans fixating here, or on Offg, that would be a problem.
With pros showing up as well? You have my sympathy. What a rat hole.

Terry Silk
Terry Silk
Jun 9, 2021 12:01 PM

The art is to continue to taunt then when the taunted fight back beat them in a disproportionate way then blame it on them for attacking you. Someone told me about how the fans of a football club would taunt a handful fans of the visiting team and when the fans chased them their would be hundreds of opposing fans waiting to pounce. What Israel is doing is taunting the Palestinians until they bite back then the Israelis are waiting to pounce and blame it on the Palestinians.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 8, 2021 9:46 AM

On the incendiary topic of the Holocaust, I think the ruling order has reached a crisis of propaganda. Whatever the truth of the matter, there is no other historical event – and no other item full stop – that plays such a crucial role, by way of contrast, in the ceaselessly relayed self image of the West – and America in particular – as The Great Good.

And this is why every figure who opposes Western interests is invariably likened to Hitler – which prompted Gore Vidal to speak about the “Hitler of the Month Club”.

The intended upshot is that the genocidal policies of the West could always be occluded by reference to the Holocaust as The Greatest Crime in All History, which seems to morph into The Only Crime. The very fact it is referred to as THE Holocaust suggests it was the only one.

The crisis – which inevitably worsens as time goes on – is that ever rising new generations care less and less about it, nullifying the effect and, even worse, prompting unwanted questions about what the West is doing NOW.

Hence the ceaseless Holocaust related programmes, documentaries, movies and, more recently – and this is a sign of increasing desperation – the whipped up controversies e.g. “Holocaust denial”.

Tom
Tom
Jun 8, 2021 3:07 AM

Dear Michael, I think it would be great to see you in a discussion with Dr Robert Spencer from jihadwatch.org.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jun 7, 2021 9:02 PM

FYI

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-gary-null-show/id352962705?i=1000523430204

PS Please do not tell me how bad Gary Null is, I have heard it before. At best he is a mixed bag. Just passing this along for ones general edification.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jun 7, 2021 4:13 PM

“Seems quisling toady hack Abbas (who should have been gone ten years ago) is still of some use to his Zionazi Death KKKult handlers/bosses. Meanwhile the white sheeted cone hooded goy boyz from Brooklyn continue their pogrom/ethnic cleansing unabated.”

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/palestinian-authority-rounds-activists

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 10:21 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

Just today I heard his is now completely irrelevant and well beyond redemption.
And rich. Did I mention rich?

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 10:28 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

Your article also mentions he canceled elections and is illegitimate. The site seems really good.

mgeo
mgeo
Jun 7, 2021 9:50 AM

Analysis of genes shows that Yemenis are the most semetic, followed by the Palestinians. Few Israeli citizens qualify.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 10:35 PM
Reply to  mgeo

It’s a religion and thus red herring argument in the end. The eastern sects once shared an empire with 2 other groups. The ME spread out generally.

Anyhoo I don’t think the DNA histories are disputed any more. I hope not. It probably is.

jimbo
jimbo
Jun 7, 2021 5:35 AM

I find the publication, presence and continued existence of this expression of opinion to be remarkable. I believe the latest atrocities committed against the innocent of Palestine by ADF cowards, is commonly referred to by the colonial occupation Zionist gansters as ‘mowing the grass’. Repression, disappearance, massacre, and the global dissimulation and coverup of the crimes of the Apartheid Zionist theocracy is as unrelenting as it is morally repugnant.

Al Jazeera journalist leaves hospital day after Israeli arrestAl Jazeera Arabic veteran journalist Givara Budeiri sustained a fractured hand while being violently arrested in Sheikh Jarrah, occupied East Jerusalem.

In short, Israel is the measure of our failings and our incompetence. We have waited for a great leader for years, but none came; we have waited for a mighty military victory, but we were defeated roundly; we have waited for outside powers (the US or,in its time, the Soviet Union), but none came to our aid. The one thing we have not tried in all seriousness is to rely on OURSELVES: until we do that with a full commitment to success there is no chance that we can advance towards self-determination and freedom from aggression.-1998

E. Said

Tony_0pmoc
Tony_0pmoc
Jun 6, 2021 5:51 PM

In Oldham, I grew up with the Children, of people who had escaped from Eastern Europe to England, before, during and after WWII. My best friend had an exceedingly long surname. It was Edward Siekiowski or something very close. I hope he is still alive. He was a great mate. He often came top of our class. Hannah Hrubiak (or something close) was even cleverer. She taught me how to do up my shoelaces when I had to change them for PE when I was nearly 5 years.

I was proud of my England then, for providing a country to live in where everyone felt safe.

The third best book I have ever read in my life is by Arthur Koestler “Scum of The Earth”

comment image

No doubt Sophie has already pressed Delete, as I am unworthy.

Spare a thought for Craig Murray, who is probably going to be sent to jail tomorrow, for telling the truth, and exposing gross corruption, most recently in The Scottish “Justice” system.

Tony

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 6:35 PM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

If you’re lonely try a dating site, if you want attention, start a blog. I’ll even let you post a link if you do. It’s nothing personal, it’s just people find your made up stuff about your fantasy life to be very boring I’m afraid. If we don’t take it down they complain. 🤷🏻‍♀️

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 12:08 AM

If you’re lonely try a dating site, if you want attention, start a blog.

I started a blog so that I could talk to myself. I found it solved both problems. And! I never have to post links because my audience always shows up for the show.
Err… you’re recommending a dating site? Are you sure about that? I mean sure it solves one problem….

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 12:02 AM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

Sophie has a good suggestion about doing a blog. It adds the the benefit of aggregating your writing.

I do enjoy your OT posts when that’s the case. However sites have rules. It’s really a social media problem I think I have a good solution to. I see variations of it now.

That’s boyh Lengthy and OT. I would rank this site high for being tolerant.

As a guide, I would point to here, where links off-site are mixed with well cited opinion on topic, as being a good style. I would mix links to content I like were I linking my own site to avoid being spammy.

Or… If you would like a troll army of foul mouthed thirteen year olds… that’s another matter. Lol.

Peter
Peter
Jun 7, 2021 11:58 PM
Reply to  Tony_0pmoc

I suspect Koestler was bumped off for writing the Thirteenth Tribe.

Waldorf
Waldorf
Jun 8, 2021 11:29 AM
Reply to  Peter

No, Koestler’s health was in decline. His wife committed suicide with him – she was in good health and some speculated that Koestler, who was accused after he was dead of having committed at least one rape during his lifetime, bullied her into a suicide pact.

Seamus Padraig
Seamus Padraig
Jun 6, 2021 5:24 PM

The Zio-media are an utter, complete and total joke.

Does anybody here remember way back in 2017, when ‘Orange Hitler’ was a freshly minted president? There was suddenly a string of bomb threats made against several US synagogues, and the media went nuts blaming Trump for this tidal wave of anti-Semitism sweeping the country!!!

Then it turned out that these threats were actually false-flags being perpetrated by a Jewish teenager living in Israel — you can’t make this stuff up! To their credit, the Israelis actually found the kid and deported to the US to stand trial. (They’re usually known for sheltering Jewish fugitives from justice rather than handing them over.)

http://www.arabamericannews.com/2017/03/23/u-s-israeli-teen-arrested-in-israel-over-bomb-threats-to-jewish-centers/

So, do you think that the ADL eventually amended their ‘anti-Semitic slurs and attacks’ figure for the year? Not a chance!

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 12:23 AM
Reply to  Seamus Padraig

Well… it was a teenager. I heard but that’s one where it’s good they memory holed it.

The other teenager that comes to mind was kid wthe Maga hat whilet the First Nation elder was drumming at the rally.

The third was PePe the Frog 🐸 4Chan hysteria and the weird man involved with them getting punched on camera.

The comedian Avi (the self identified) The Jew interviewed him but parts of the story remain hidden.

There are a number of prominent left voices on the left discussing these events with academics. The majority seem to be Jewish. This article adds to that growing list.

I appreciate this is difficult for some people but they deserve more respect for addressing this head on.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 3:12 PM

On the topic of (alleged) anti-Semitism, I was curious about the reception given to Alice Walker who dared to express admiration for David Icke. I find on Wiki:

In May 2013, Walker expressed appreciation for the works of the British conspiracy theorist David Icke. On BBC Radio 4’s Desert Island Discs, she said that Icke’s book Human Race Get Off Your Knees: The Lion Sleeps No More would be her choice if she could have only one book. The book promotes the theory that the Earth is ruled by shapeshifting reptilian humanoids and “Rothschild Zionists”. Jonathan Kay of the National Post described this book (and Icke’s other books) as “hateful, hallucinogenic nonsense.” Kay wrote that Walker’s public praise for Icke’s book was “stunningly offensive” and that by taking it seriously, she was disqualifying herself “from the mainstream marketplace of ideas.”

Now I don’t know about you, but I would have thought that the whole point of a marketplace of anything is that no single person decides what should and shouldn’t be part of that marketplace. And yet here we have Kay telling us that Walker has “disqualified herself” – meaning of course that Kay has disqualified her.

In 2017, Walker published what Tablet magazine described as “an explicitly anti-Semitic poem” on her blog entitled “It Is Our (Frightful) Duty To Study The Talmud”, recommending that the reader should start with YouTube to learn about the shocking aspects of the Talmud. The poem includes the lines: “Are Goyim (us) meant to be slaves of Jews?” and “Are three year old (and a day) girls eligible for marriage and intercourse? Are young boys fair game for rape?”

Actually – what the Walker poem does is to express solidarity with the Palestinians, although she certainly queries passages in the Talmud. But no-one thinks the Bible is off limits for criticism. Judge for yourself:

https://alicewalkersgarden.com/2017/11/it-is-our-frightful-duty-to-study-the-talmud/

It is also true that Walker will not permit her book, The Colour Purple to be translated into Hebrew – but she said this was a protest against Israel’s apartheid state – something not mentioned by Wiki.

NickM
NickM
Jun 7, 2021 7:40 AM
Reply to  George Mc

Thank you for that last Link. I have not read “The Color of Purple” but her poem “Talmud” shows a prose writer who can also turn out a prose-poem or poem-in-broken-up-prose. I understand her sympathy with another ethnically discriminated group, the Palestinians; in preWar days she would probably have sympathised with Jews. Black Lives Matter nowadays, where does she stand on that?

Her “Talmud” touches some comically weird but also some deeply serious issues between The Chosen People (in fact, Any chosen people) and The Rest of Us.

mgeo
mgeo
Jun 7, 2021 9:32 AM
Reply to  NickM

What about the 1 billion or so people of a certain faith – or upbringing – who have swallowed that version of Chosen People.

NickM
NickM
Jun 7, 2021 1:33 PM
Reply to  mgeo

MGeo you underestimate its popularity. “Of the world’s major religions, Christianity is the largest, with more than **two** billion followers.”

ToyAussie
ToyAussie
Jun 6, 2021 1:47 PM

“Israel ‘urges’ media crackdown.”

Here is Israel demanding more media control.

The degree of control would be evident in the level of crack down, no?

no crackdown = no influence

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/gantz-urges-facebook-tiktok-executives-to-crack-down-on-social-media-incitement/

It’s not rocket science.

TFS
TFS
Jun 6, 2021 1:17 PM

Here’s Dr Norman Finklesteins take on his view of what he calls ‘The New Anti-Semitism’

http://normanfinkelstein.com/?s=new+antisemitism

wardropper
wardropper
Jun 6, 2021 4:33 PM
Reply to  TFS

Finkelstein is a remarkable man. The very fact of being so much in the limelight attracts far more antagonism than the content of his lectures could ever merit, and his calm, utterly reasonable concern with the facts, and not merely the emotions, of Jewish – Gentile issues is a courageous stance for any modern person to take.

You have to be pretty vicious yourself, or to have been successfully propagandized, not to see that his personal interest in this topic is a human interest, and not a partisan one.
He is an example of what a human being could, and should be, wherever they are born.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 7:40 PM
Reply to  wardropper

This is one of the most amazing exchanges I’ve seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw7FJ9y8m4M

And note how the young woman asking the question has already been wound up to a quivering hysterical wreck before Norman even speaks!

And this one I hadn’t seen before but it may be even better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2zZgFeQr6E

Transcript here:

http://www.allreadable.com/57692ji3

“Norman, I want to ask you about a video, one of the first videos that I’d ever seen of you. The first time I ever discovered that you existed was a video of you on a site Reddit.com and it was a young student and I forget the university you were at and he cried in front of you as you spoke of the Holocaust. It invoked a very visual emotional response in her and you were unwavering in your response to that.

That particular video has a certain amount of mis-understanding about it. First of all, the young woman was not Jewish. Many people think I was lashing out at this young Jewish woman, no, she was German and I found it deeply offensive that a German was telling me, the son of Nazi Holocaust survivors, how I should be talking about the Nazi Holocaust. Now let me make one thing very clear here. I have a lot of very close German friends, in fact most of the my closet friends, many of my closet friends now are German. So I don’t carry my parents baggage, I don’t blame my parents. I certainly understand but I don’t carry my parents baggage when it comes to Germans. The fact is, many Germans of which this young woman was exemplary, for them the Nazi Holocaust is a theatre, it’s a passion plate, you’re supposed to come up on stage and beat your chest and say “How horrible it was, how horrible,” and then you’re supposed to cry. And I don’t, I don’t like that because it’s phony. It’s fake, you’re putting on a show. Even though the tears were probably real, the foundation was fake and phony. She wants to come out and show everybody in that audience at Waterloo how much she as a German is hurt by the Holocaust well number one young lady, I got new for you. As pained as you, I’m a lot more pained because I had to live with my parents suffering for the entire duration of their life, to the last day of their life so I’m a lot more pained than you so please don’t tell me about how to talk about Nazi Holocaust and number two if you really are grieving save it for the privacy of a room, don’t put it on show for everyone because then it becomes a theatre and I’m not interested. As I said, spare me the crocodile tears. I don’t want to hear from it.”

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 12:40 AM
Reply to  George Mc

All performative rituals have many things in common. I totally accept the sentiment expressed here. But…

What’s troubling is not just the level of disconnect involved. The denial and often total lack of rationality.
To me it is the depth of emotion and sincerity that is usually in play.

Russaphobia anyone? There’s many examples. So while I am glad she buys in to the horror and history of genocide, this same phenomena caused it.

CryptoKazar
CryptoKazar
Jun 6, 2021 1:04 PM

For an article proclaiming to be against the weaponisation of “Anti semitism” you certainly do a lot of “Anti semitism” mud flinging, you just cant help yourselves can you

TFS
TFS
Jun 7, 2021 7:02 AM
Reply to  CryptoKazar

Could you give examples supporting your accusation?

A hit & run comment, usually doesn’t sit well with OffG commenters?

The hint is at top of the OffG Website.

offGuardian
BECAUSE FACTS REALLY SHOULD BE SACRED


Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 11:48 AM

Thanks. We’ve decided to leave this here as a perfect example of my point.

victoria
victoria
Jun 6, 2021 10:47 AM

quite strikingly… on jerusalem day, may 10, 2021 (numerology ~ 11) “The pillar of fire and a large plume of smoke were clearly visible atop the Temple Mount as night fell on Jerusalem.” felt like signalling & a tell for things to come … the planned building of the 3rd temple to be completed, the corner-stone laid in the year 2050? the first temple, solomons temple embedded in my mind & belly via trance, rape & torture when i was a child … past/present/future programming ~ ‘endtimes’ … the 3rd temple uniting the 3 major abrahamic faiths – judaism, christianity, & islam. nwo ~ one world religion agenda.

Jo Dominich
Jo Dominich
Jun 6, 2021 9:53 AM

Well said. It’s high time the truth was exposed. The problem is exacerbated because the USA keep vetoing Sanctions against Israel at the UN. Our Govt and opposition here is controlled by the BOD with over 50% of MPS being Friends of Israel. Israel has beenot officially declared an Apartheid Nation and should be treated acordingly. Anyone who remembers the live footage some years ago now on BBC news where a BBC correspondent (with the film crew in a car behind) hands in the air with PRESS largely written on his hat and a Press card displayed approached an Israeli border vehicle requesting entry was, 11 seconds into it executed by an Israeli soldier by a shot to the head. This is a Nation out of control and the USA supports it.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 9:27 AM

I know this is an “unmentionable” topic (and I reckon the true measure of propaganda and manipulation of a system is to look at the truly taboo areas) … but, to posit, if momentarily, that Nazi crimes, vile though they were, have been exaggerated in certain areas is to posit something with jaw dropping consequences i.e. it implies that the Nazis, though evil, no longer constitute an “exceptional” evil.

And such a consideration would remove the magical mystical aura surrounding so much of the later 20th century political and psychological thought e.g. all that Jungian stuff about the demon of “the German collective mind” – and perhaps all that stuff about the demon of any “collective mind”?

And on that topic, consider how we are constantly being urged not to forget the Holocaust and yet delving into the roots, and even the details, of this event is something that is viewed with extreme suspicion and surveillance. We must not forget but we must not ask too many questions.   

Catte Black
Catte Black
Jun 6, 2021 11:28 AM
Reply to  George Mc

It’s not an unmentionable topic, provided it’s done intelligently and with due respect for the fact millions of people did suffer and die. Unfortunately intelligent objective investigation into the historical documentation for the death camps etc tends to be hijacked by covert and unintelligent racists looking to justify their hate by masking it behind an intellectualism they don’t actually care about or even understand. They just want to bash the Jews and sneakily worm in suggestions that Hitler was ok really.

if that can be avoided, no reason informed, fact-based discussion can’t happen.

Michael Lesher
Michael Lesher
Jun 6, 2021 1:11 PM
Reply to  Catte Black

It may be worth mentioning here that Raul Hilberg, the pioneer scholar of the Nazi genocide of Jews, argued publicly that even Holocaust deniers sometimes make observations that improve scholarship on the subject.

And even Nazi atrocities can be exaggerated. For instance, the popular idea that the Nazis made soap from the fat of murdered Jews is a myth that has survived repeated scholarly debunkings. And an excellent book by Norman Finkelstein and Ruth Bettina Birn, A Nation on Trial, thoroughly refutes the fashionable thesis (notably advanced by Daniel Goldhagen) that virtually all Germans were complicit in genocidal policies.

Another of Finkelstein’s books — The Holocaust Industry, a brilliant analysis of the weaponization of the Nazi genocide — demonstrates (among other things) the inflation of the number of death camp survivors by various Jewish-led organizations in order to extract additional “reparations” in recent decades. Finkelstein underscores the irony that if you take these bogus numbers seriously, you are forced to conclude that the death camps couldn’t really have been all that bad — thus aligning the Holocaust Industry with Holocaust deniers.

For proving this, Finkelstein — whose parents were both real death camp survivors, and whose entire family (apart from those two) was exterminated in the genocide — has been repeatedly accused in mainstream media of being a Holocaust denier himself. So it goes.

Catte Black
Catte Black
Jun 6, 2021 5:40 PM
Reply to  Michael Lesher

There are multiple approaches to manipulating the ‘antisemitism’ smear and we can’t afford to be naive about it.

One such approach is, as you discuss so eloquently, to hype up or invent incidents of racial attacks, or to dishonestly conflate critique of Israel with attacks on Jewish people or Judaism.

But there is another, which is to intentionally pollute and discredit any objective discussion of the Holocaust and related issues with gross race hate.

And there is the additional consideration that real neonazis and racist hate merchants congregate around legitimate discussion of such issues and use it as a cover for inserting their apologies and endorsement of the murder and persecution of Jewish people.

This means any such discussion quickly becomes infested with disinformation shills and real Nazis spewing grotesque and extreme hate speech, and with more subtle agents trying to nudge things in the direction of racism at every opportunity.

Whenever we run a piece like this our admin’s lives become a nightmare. They have to sift through gross abuse and hate speech, calls for the ovens to be lit again, allegations that Jews are ‘evil’, slimy dishonest hints about ‘big nosed’ people needing to be put in their place etc.

Because however much it has been co-opted and manufactured – and it surely has – real antisemitism does still exist. Not usually where it’s pointed up in the media, but quietly, in the hearts of a few respectable-seeming people whose deepest thoughts, rarely expressed except anonymously on forums like this, would deeply shock you.

It’s not a joke and it should not be shrugged off. And while I totally agree with you about the current nazification of Israel and the evil of their treatment of the Palestinian people, I also want us all to bear in mind the future potential for huge and ugly backlash, not against Israel or the elites supporting them, but against ordinary Jewish people. I am also acutely aware of the baited traps.

I know you profoundly don’t need to be told this, Michael, but others do, and this part is aimed at them –

There is no binary here. Being lied about and misrepresented does not make someone a good guy.

The Nazis were not misunderstood heroes. Even if you assume, as some do, Auschwitz was not a death camp, they still murdered, displaced, dispossessed and dehumanized millions of human beings.

This does not become ok or untrue because others now do the same or aspire to.

Sorry, this is long. But I’m done now. I’m sure our little gang of vpn-abusing, real or pretend Nazis will have fun downvoting.

Michael Lesher
Michael Lesher
Jun 6, 2021 6:15 PM
Reply to  Catte Black

All true. And I appreciate the extraordinary efforts of the administrators in connection with my writing. I have never intended to complicate their lives, or yours. Unfortunately, writing about inconvenient — but important — facts involves several hazards, not the least of which is attracting the sort of human refuse that preys on these things for all the wrong reasons.

One long-running irritant for me, just for instance, is knowing that my work on sex abuse cover-ups among Orthodox Jews is generally ignored in “respectable” venues, while it’s quoted extensively on neo-Nazi and Jew-hating sites. Needless to say, their interest in this material has nothing to do with my reasons for writing it. But it’s impossible to keep them away.

One reason (among others) I’m so passionate about exposing the Israel lobby’s weaponization of anti-Semitism is that (as I suggest in the article) it can ultimately unleash a backlash against Jews that really would hurt a lot of people. History contains examples of very similar phenomena, and it would be foolish to imagine that our societies are immune. Anti-Semites appear marginal now — but offering them genuine grievances is like pouring jet fuel around a lit match. The heartless propagandists playing that game, from Netanyahu to Alan Dershowitz to Margaret Hodge, are gambling with the lives of my children and grandchildren. And I’m mad as hell about it.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Jun 6, 2021 10:38 PM
Reply to  Michael Lesher

I am just anti violence, and I don’t give a rats if people follow some weird man invented religion to justify it

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 7, 2021 12:47 AM
Reply to  Michael Lesher

You get the good with the bad. The same thing happens, in fact even worse, with Islam and Muslims in this day and age. They are a major target and not just with fanatics.

Such fear/extremism will always be a part of the human condition but generally, truth does out. Unfortunately Judaism and its followers has allowed Israel to get away with the lie that it represents the religion. It does not. It never did. Zionism represents itself and exploits Judaism and its followers and the sooner Jews separate themselves from the State, the better it will be.

Most Jews live safely in many countries around the world and are not at threat. The more the religion can put aside the Israeli State and its own entrenched concept of victimhood, the better will be the religion and the safer its followers.

All humans are descended from trauma. The healthy ones have been able to process it and move on. Where trauma and suffering become entrenched in a religion, or a culture, i.e. the Irish and the Armenians, it is harder, if not often impossible to process and move on. I suspect the ‘iron walls’ of a religion are even harder to break through than those of a culture. But it must be done.

There is much of value in Judaism as there is in all religions, but the mantra of victimhood and the failure to forgive past wrongs, is corrosive and unenlightened. No religion can survive unless it can function healthily in a modern world. An individual trapped in past suffering is in bad shape, but one trapped in past suffering of all ancestors as well as all followers of his religion, for thousands of years, is truly doomed. Salvation rests in the hands of each individual, as does freedom.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 3:27 PM
Reply to  Catte Black

By “unmentionable” topic I referred to those who do in fact query the claim that there was a plan to deliberately exterminate an entire race. I know that there have been plenty of anti-Semitic ravings to carry out such an extermination. The question is whether an actual attempt was made.

There is a website called “Wikispooks” which I have found to be very informative and which seems to me to put forward points in a reasoned way. They refer to the Holocaust narrative as follows:

There are three fundamental tenets which together comprise the Official Narrative of “The Holocaust”:

1.    That extermination of the Jewish populations of Germany and the countries it occupied during World War II had become official German government policy by 1941 (There is even an ongoing debate as to when the “Holocaust” took place. On one hand, there are historians who say it took place in 1933, and on the other hand there are those who say it took place in 1941).

2.    That a large majority of the Jews killed during the war died in purpose-built gas chambers from the effects of inhaling the gas produced by the cyanide-based industrial compound Zyklon-B.

3.    That the total number killed was about 6 million.

These are the propositions that are being queried.

I have no doubt that to raise this issue at all in the mainstream would of course count as “Holocaust denial”. Indeed, there is no way you could raise the issue.   

Catte Black
Catte Black
Jun 7, 2021 8:58 AM
Reply to  George Mc

These points use very squirmy language.

1) while the exact date on which these racist policies became adopted is a valid question for historians it can’t be used to claim Nazi Germany was not a racist state – correct?

2) ok, important question historically, but not morally. Whether they died in purpose-built gas chambers or in purpose-built work camps, or in walled-off ghettoes, or by being shot and dumped in mass graves, they still died, in large numbers and in subhuman conditions. This is still a crime against humanity. Let’s be careful not to sound as if we think that’s actually kinda ok as long as Zyklon B isn’t the culprit

3) again, the numbers matter for historical accuracy and record of course, but we need to be very clear we are NOT saying “it was only 1 million so that’s ok”.

This is slippery and intentionally treacherous terrain. Negotiate with care and respect.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 7, 2021 11:28 AM
Reply to  Catte Black

Wikispooks is listing the three above tenets as what is to be queried. They are querying whether it was ever the policy of Germany to cause the total extermination of an entire race.

Catte Black
Catte Black
Jun 7, 2021 5:43 PM
Reply to  George Mc

I know. You said that in the comment above. Why do you think I’m not aware of that?

The point I am trying to make is this –

The Nazis dehumanized, dispossessed, incarcerated and enslaved millions of Jews, many of whom died either through disease, starvation or direct violence.

So, if we embark on querying whether “it was ever the policy of Germany to cause the total extermination of an entire race” we need to be very careful to do so with due acknowledgment of these undisputed facts. Otherwise we might accidentally become apologists for fascist mass-murder. Which is not anything we want to do.

Agreed?

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 8, 2021 9:24 AM
Reply to  Catte Black

Agreed.

And as I said somewhere, “Holocaust denial” is something which the system’s propagandists like to keep bringing up. They actually don’t mind if vast numbers deny the Holocaust – as long as people keep talking about it. And of course, such denial will inevitably provoke the most violent confrontations – which is, as always, the main aim of the propaganda.

Michael Lesher
Michael Lesher
Jun 10, 2021 1:10 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I don’t usually bother with this sort of thing, but since others seem to have been drawn into the chatter, a few brief words may be in order.

The “Wikispooks” site is utterly worthless. It relies entirely on repeatedly-debunked “sources” and does not cite a single actual historian of the subject.

The text of the “Official Narrative” that heads the site provides an immediate clue to the disingenuous nature of the authors’ enterprise. What is an “Official Narrative”? Who is supposed to have made these specific claims, and what makes them “fundamental”? This is a transparent straw-man maneuver. If serious historical discussion were the authors’ objective, they would presumably have quoted from a historian and then adduced evidence questioning some particular assertion. To make up a “narrative” and then to do a witches’ dance around it is pure nonsense — in this context, sinister nonsense.

The specific claims attributed to the fictitious “narrative” are mostly nonsense themselves. I’m not a historian of the subject — neither, clearly, are the Wikispooks authors — but I believe it’s fair to say that historians continue to debate whether the genocide of Jews was anticipated by the Nazi government as far back as the mid-1930s, or whether the Nazis only arrived at that policy over time. I am not aware of any debate, however, about the fact that the extermination program went into action in 1942, after the Wannsee conference in January of that year. (Of course, many Jews — and many other civilians — had been killed before that, and anti-Jewish policies were in place in Germany as early as 1934. Such killing did not require a policy of genocide.) Thus, the wording of the first “tenet” attributed to the “Official Narrative,” whatever that is supposed to be, renders it quite useless for any serious purpose.

The second “tenet” requires little comment. There can be no serious question about the use of gas chambers as part of the extermination program; the evidence, including eyewitness accounts, is so overwhelming that it would be merely pedantic to discuss it. Jews and non-Jews alike were killed in these chambers. But the authors have loaded the dice by insisting that only Zyklon-B could have been used as the active poison. That is another straw man. In fact, a variant of Zyklon-B was used for the purpose, not Zyklon-B itself — and this was not introduced at the beginning of the program. These are well-known facts, but the authors have given themselves a kind of escape hatch by employing those weasel words.

As for the total number of Jews killed being “about six million,” this is pretty much another red herring. Because an exact death toll is impossible, scholars of the genocide have only offered estimates. To the best of my recollection, these estimates — beginning with that of Raul Hilberg in 1961 — fall between 5 and 6 million (with some room for error in either direction, of course). I notice that Keith Lowe, in his much more recent book Savage Continent, estimates that “at least 5,750,000” Jews were killed in the Nazi genocide. I believe this estimate is somewhat higher than Hilberg’s, but once again it is between 5 and 6 million, which appears to be the scholarly consensus. The specific figure of 6 million is a popular convention, not a scholarly finding. Once again, the authors reveal their disingenuousness by attacking a straw man. (I’m not discussing the mass murders of non-Jewish victims here, but of course that happened as well.) On the other hand, if they mean to claim — without having the guts to say it openly — that the Jewish death toll was nowhere near that figure, then they haven’t a leg to stand on.

Look: there is plenty of solid scholarship on this subject. Instead of playing games with hit-and-run amateurs on the Internet, you can read Hilberg, Henry Friedlander, Christopher Browning, Primo Levi, Ruth Bettina Birn — just to name a few. Yes, a lot of nonsense has been written about the genocide as well. But that hardly justifies churning out more nonsense. You cannot do history by abandoning historical methodology. Read the literature — and if you think there’s an original contribution to be made, by all means do the research and publicize your findings.

But just doing a lot of simpering and gesturing about “queries” you don’t reveal, concerning a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with the article in question, is at best a waste of everyone’s time.

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jun 10, 2021 4:48 AM
Reply to  Michael Lesher

Utterly agree and thank you for your post, Michael. Reading through these comments I think this is a good place to end this thread. There has been some respectful back and forth but, as you rightly mention, it has drifted further and further off-topic and it feels right to end it here. Thank you once more for your message. A2

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 8:19 PM
Reply to  Catte Black

I’m afraid it is an unmentionable topic since there are certain assumptions which any enquirer has to make before investigating this period – and this is not true of any other period. But if some questioners did not make these assumptions in advance then it will automatically be assumed that they “just want to bash the Jews and sneakily worm in suggestions that Hitler was ok really”. And, to make it even more complicated, genuine anti-Semites and paid up trolls will be eager to jump in and really bash the Jews etc.

I can understand this. It may no longer be relevant anyway. It’s how the past is used now that should be highlighted.

Catte Black
Catte Black
Jun 7, 2021 7:50 AM
Reply to  George Mc

I am not talking about what is acceptable in the mainstream. I am talking about what is acceptable here. We work very hard to maintain a fair and decent policy on this tortured topic.

No historical event should be beyond rational analysis, and data should always be paramount. We maintain that as essential.

But we can’t just ignore or underestimate the extent to which Holocaust revisionism has been colonised by those with antisemitic or covert pro-Israel propagandist agendas.

David Irving, for example, never denied there had been wholesale persecution of Jewish people and other groups under the Nazis. He merely made attempts to offer what he saw as factual corrections to details of how this was done.

However most of his ‘followers’ on here have abandoned that nuanced and relatively rational approach in favour of claiming or insinuating that the entire story of Nazi atrocities is a lie.

This is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

Millions of people, Jewish and non-Jewish, were persecuted, dehumanized and murdered by the Nazis.

Nazi society was one in which being of a certain faith, race, sexual orientation or political affiliation was enough to be classified as less than human.

It was a society where a person could be stripped of their home, belongings, identity and literally worked to death in a prison camp – simply for being a Jew, or a gypsy, or a Communist or homosexual etc.

At a time when we are once again being invited to dehumanize and segregate sections of society based on nothing but belief systems, it’s important that we don’t lose sight of this.

And any revisionism must be careful not to become a means of normalizing the unthinkable for a new generation of dupes.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 7, 2021 8:35 AM
Reply to  Catte Black

I understand what you are saying and if I came across as aggressive it is because I thought you had deleted a post I made although I see it is still “awaiting spam check”.

I found this definition which I think is relevant:

A “Holocaust Denier”, contrary to what one might infer is not someone who denies that The Holocaust took place, but someone who questions whether it took place as described by the official narrative.

David Irving is a curious case. I have read some of what he has written on his blog and he doesn’t do himself any favours by specifically mentioning “Jews” in a derogatory way. From what I recall he also has a certain “robust” opinions on other matters e.g. gays (by which I mean he is “old fashioned” in the worst sense!).

I reckon it is easy to spot genuine anti-Semitism: it is precisely those who make a big deal out of someone “being Jewish”. I love the story of singer Randy Newman who didn’t know he was Jewish until he found himself – as a kid – barred from a kid’s party because of his ethnicity and he came home and asked his dad, “What’s a Jew?”

Turning Moment
Turning Moment
Jun 8, 2021 9:07 AM
Reply to  Catte Black

I am not talking about what is acceptable in the mainstream.

No historical event should be beyond rational analysis, and data should always be paramount.We maintain that as essential

This, it could be argued, is disingenuous. Discussion of the factual details surrounding this topic are not just ‘unacceptable in the mainstream’, they are unacceptable anywhere outside of a carefully demarcated political fringe- one that is consistently demonised by mainstream and radical thinkers alike.
How can we understand our history (and our present) in such an atmosphere?
In several countries it is illegal to discuss this topic, something that cannot be said of Covid, 9/11, JFK, the moon landings and other so-called ‘conspiracy theories’. People go to prison for attempts to break with the consensus view. The Holocaust narrative occupies a wholly unique position in our culture, one that many see as imbued with religious qualities. To question the Holocaust (the details or in general) is to be an outcast, not an eccentric ‘ nutter’ , but a dangerous and evil subversive. Period.
To even ask why this is the case, is taboo.
We are taught the narrative as young school children. We see it retold many times in popular films. We can visit one of the dozens of well funded museums which mark the events as holding such special significance that they deserve their own educational (sacred ?) spaces.
The position of ‘the Nazis were evil regardless, so what do the details really matter?’ is a reversal of logic. The Nazi regime, I am convinced, did many things that I object to on a basis of universal morality. However, the perception of them as uniquely evil, as the benchmark definition of an utterly deranged society, is only really sustained and is only sustainable through the religious adherence to the death camp story. Without that element, and with an acknowledgement that the eugenics, the human experimentation, the resort to total war and all the rest was none of it unique to (or even pioneered by) the German experience, we arrive at more level playing field of asking what were the political drives which produced fascism in the first place? Even if we can reason a determined objection to it, can fascism really be reflexively written off as unique mass insanity without the camps story?
This website has built a deserved reputation for digging up the facts which dispute consensus narratives on a number of subjects, but it has not ever gone near an exploration of the Nazi camp system to compare the facts as we know and the official story. It has enormous consequences for all else that is published here. That in and of itself is enormously revealing.
Revisionism is dangerous territory I would agree that much, but it cuts every which way. E.g. the revisionism of Soviet crimes, especially (but not exclusively) in the Stalin era, stand alongside the obscured criminality of liberal capitalist societies. Why do the Nazis get invoked almost exclusively here when trying to make comparisons with our collapsing democracy and rising tyranny, why not the USSR or Communist China ?

Binra
Binra
Jun 6, 2021 9:08 AM

Sophie – Admin1

 Jun 5, 2021 8:44 PM

Please reflect that claiming “the Joos” are inventing antisemitism is an absurdly self-defeating argument of the worst kind.

All you are doing is

1.handing the elites the ammunition they are hoping you will give them and

2.betraying your own genuine antisemitism.

False flag thinking is part and parcel of awareness of the way the mind works its own deceit. So to assert that elements within a group identity cannot set up a grievance as a basis of leveraging fear and funding, while suppressing critical opposition, is entirely without substance.

The whole basis and nature of this pinned non-reply statement is the most self-damning thing I have ever read from OG.
It may be a plea to mitigate criticism of anything associated with the Jewish identity, but if so it backfires by actively joining a denial of freedom of thought and speech.

It would be clear enough to ask for reflection on fear, grievance and hate as sources of inflammation, distortion and violence, so as NOT to join in the language or ‘operating system’ of the ‘psycho-pathy’ – regardless WHO that is associated with in action or reaction.

Venting or dumping hate may be momentarily relieving to the moment of its expression for its dump, but is not more than currency of reaction lacking consciousness that persists the baiting to a lack of consciousness under boot of war, pain fear and loss. Or as in new normal ‘lack of consciousness’ redefined ‘happy’.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 10:41 AM
Reply to  Binra

So to assert that elements within a group identity cannot set up a grievance as a basis of leveraging fear and funding, while suppressing critical opposition, is entirely without substance.

Oh ffs. Of course elements within a group can do that, that’s the whole point of the article! I am specifically talking about people who use this as a cover for wholesale attacks on the entire Jewish race/culture/faith, up to and including calls for their mass murder.

People are freer to express their opinions on here than on any comparable site. We work hard to tread the line between managing trolls and allowing real commenters to have their say. But no, that doesn’t extend to spouting generic race hate.

If you feel the lack of that then you are free to find a group of likeminded people who enjoy using infantile pejoratives for their fellow humans and/or want to see them slaughtered for their ethnicity. It will never have a home here.

Binra
Binra
Jun 6, 2021 8:24 PM

A principle means to suppress awareness, consciousness and action regarding ‘trouble at home’ is the cultivation or flagging up of threats from others or outside that target and perpetuate conditioning from past experience.
We know that a leadership can and does resort to setting up such threats such as the West running ISIS as proxies.

We have some awareness of psycho-pathy in terms of planning and executing fraud and violence as a means to leverage special rights and privileges for defence and counter attack. And so playing the victim card is another such ruse and is a principle basis for cancel culture, climate fascism and covidian cult worship.

Along with all is the setting of what are now called securitised narratives – which is also the ‘political’ (sic) system in which there are no user accessible parts; a sealed unit, ergo Lock In.

Your last paragraph is as puerile as its accusation to me! A pre-emptive strike on anyone doubting your virtue set over and against a clearly extremist and genocidal view.

I find it very easy to see where people apply generic judgements on a group because of assignment of blame and hate to someone associated of that group.
It happens a lot in comment everywhere and not just to Jewish or Israeli issues.

A current target in UK and elsewhere are anti vaxxers – so called.
Upping the anti-semitic media focus will serve THAT incitement to violence.
However I do not give credibility or attention to a lockstepped puppet Media, nor do I believe something is true because the video goes viral.

Hate and fear are fuel and leverage for manipulators.
It’s a form of worship that gives sacrifice to a god of vengeance, whose rites are dutifully enacted by its followers. Hate elevated to the status of virtue, which then breeds a like reaction to reset the world in trauma by which to shift to another set of narratives.
I think the WW2 psyop included predictive programming for industrially managed genetic control. As it didn’t find support overtly, it did away with out capacity to block it by systems of self-incentivised self-destruction or degradation of consciousness. Almost like they insinuate the movies in our mind and we act it out. like mindless golems or captive bot-net.

Whatever agencies are aligned in manipulative deceits, they operate within a society or culture of funding and support. perhaps because they always play to reinforce self-illusion within our own externalised hopes and fears.

Speak to the issues rather than deal in personal denigration from a presumed moral superiority.

You (OG) have every right to act in holding integrity as you feel it in terms of what you open to and what merely operates parasitically or destructive to integrity.
Its your house, and where you choose not to be abused or used for abuse, you can have a clear process and principle for this.

The set of power in the world is very deeply protected from exposure by all manner of complex diversions. My sense it it is forced to a self-disclosure despite and because of its attempts to evade, obfuscate or shut down communication but also from overreach that can no longer be contained or managed even with the help of an artificial or alien intelligence. (For it is a mass abduction rather than collectivist power).

I appreciate you published my reply and that we are all always learning by living.

Binra
Binra
Jun 6, 2021 8:51 AM

Mind Traps are such that any reference becomes a sin excepting to show narrative compliance.
For to not support is seen as supporting attack and thus as one with ‘attacker’ in sin.

The word ‘sacred’ implies special or set apart in worth as well as being set above criticism, editing or change.

Something is considered sacred TO an identity or group, Identities given power to enforce such dictates are then given special right over others whose right is ignored or actively attacked as the taking of power from the subjugation of another.

The critical idea in this is of ‘identity’ set sacred as a right over and against others set outside such right or power. But more insidiously, is the setting OF such identity in power as grievance in guilt set holy and forever beyond change.

It is the worship of guilt as source of power that traps any attempt to question its dictates and assertions in smear and accusation of hateful and invalidating sin. SUCH is the power of guilt to deny, invalidate and dispirit the living, and thereby claim the right to realign the ‘pieces’ that are found after the breaking of Peace.

The correction or undoing of such a reversal is its reversal. To see the witness for Peace in place of conflicting pieces set forever in power struggle, compromise and sacrifice.
For victor today will be victim tomorrow, while both operate in the realm of sin as lack of love given power to kill and deny a shared and loving heart – not least in the name of love framed in victimhood, violation and loss.

The attempt to make anything in our world sacred and thus set outside and apart from change is the mind set apart from Creation itself – as if to make a private creation stand in ITS place or ‘build back better’ from the broken communication set by fear of loss of self.

Right to Self is universal and must be balanced before it can be shared. Such is the idea of Law as the holding of the conditions to support human life. The Law to BE Law must be Universal in Principle, such that none are set special, outside and above account to the taking of another’s right by force, theft or fraud. Elitism is the idea of self specialness set apart from law and life as truth of love. But ‘elite’ or special abilities can be aligned to the benefit of the whole of which we are all of a peace.

The action reaction acts set against wholeness is the mind by which to rule out awareness OF wholeness and peace. While contesting the rule OVER the pieces that remain as the only life or power left in scarcity such that to NOT take the life of others is to lose one’s own. Such is the ‘mindset’ of a life set by and under denial.

That there Is another way of seeing rests on willingness, not on time and circumstance.
All of what I write speaks to what runs beneath the masking of a world set in conflict.

Thom
Thom
Jun 6, 2021 8:02 AM

Jews and Israel are used as a proxy for the United States government. The US knows it is too powerful to play victim so if it’s interests are challenged, its intelligence agencies claim ‘anti-semitism’. This is what happened in the 2019 UK general election, when Jeremy Corbyn was accused of anti-semitism from powerful interests, including within the Labour Party, even though he had never said or done anything anti-semitic. In fact, it was his views of NATO, nuclear weapons and British foreign policy that was the ‘problem’, hence why no one challenged the lack of anti-semitism in Corbyn’s past.

CryptoKazar
CryptoKazar
Jun 6, 2021 12:18 PM
Reply to  Thom

Ohhh those evil white people of European origin again TUT Never mind that there is CLEARLY an agenda by “our” governments and the media owned predominantly by guess who, against white people, including mass immigration policies under the flimsiest of pretexts, Not enough white people being born to staff all the hospitals (all immigrants are nurses and doctors apparently) all the while the same governments and media promote the idea of over population, abortion and same sex marriage, none of which are conducive to increasing a declining population are they, quite the reverse in fact !

And lets not forget the vilification of Nationalism, such as the cultured hatred of the United states and Great Britain, and a push for a globalist non nationalist government. Not exactly the actions of White “Americans” or White “British” wanting to increase their power base is it, unless they hate themselves and their race, and they want to be the last unicorn and ultimately be overwhelmed by other races. Its Clearly the destruction of white western culture and sovereignty ! It cant therefore be the design of White western peoples since the media vilifies them above all others !

Hele
Hele
Jun 6, 2021 8:01 AM

I feel sick for the way Jeremy Corbyn has been treated by the zionist zealots.Poor man.

NickM
NickM
Jun 7, 2021 7:15 AM
Reply to  Hele

It was Jeremy’s own fault for not standing up to the Zionazi bullies. Corbyn threw his staunchest allies to the wolves for the sake of party unity. As you say, a Leader whose performance excites pity rather than awe.

Peter Abraham
Peter Abraham
Jun 6, 2021 4:44 AM

Test
comment image

ThinkTwice
ThinkTwice
Jun 6, 2021 3:27 AM

“What shall I wear…?”
comment image

Waldorf
Waldorf
Jun 6, 2021 11:21 AM
Reply to  ThinkTwice

She has a nice arm.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 2:42 AM

Sensible Jews and those who care about their religion will categorically separate from the pariah State of apartheid Israel.

It is also time for people to start using the correct term for those crushed under Israel’s colonial military boot – NON-JEWS.

It is not because they are Palestinians, or of Palestinian origin, or because their culture is Arabic. In 1947 Israel gave immediate citizenship to all Palestinian Arab Jews so clearly, no issue with Palestinians or Arabs, just with non-Jews.

This religious bigotry is denied everytime people talk about Palestinians or Arabs. The correct focus of Israel’s hatred is, NON-JEWS.

While Aryan is a racial grouping and Jew is a religious grouping, the principles of racism remain the same according to definitions. There is no difference between the targeting of non-Aryans by the Nazis and the targeting of non-Jews by the Zionist Jewish Israelis.

In fact, the latter could be deemed worse because it is a travesty of the best of Judaism and a betrayal of every Jew who cares about their religion.

NickM
NickM
Jun 6, 2021 6:55 AM
Reply to  Roslyn Ross

Arian is a linguistic grouping, as is Semitic. Arian refers to the language of ancient Iran, one of the Indo-European languages. Naturally there is a genetic element as well, because people who lived in Indo-Europe tend to resemble Hindus, Pakistanis and Persians (Englishmen used to refer to “our Arian cousin”). On the other hand, anti-Semitic cartoons of the pre-War era drew Jews whose faces resemble some ancient stone carvings of ordinary Syrians.

NickM
NickM
Jun 6, 2021 7:02 AM
Reply to  Roslyn Ross

No need to invent a new word for non-Jews, the Bible has given us a good old word Gentiles (from the Jewish word Goyim, “the Nations”, via Greek “Ethnos” and Latin “Gentes”). Some Arabs are Jews as you pointed out, but most Arabs are Gentiles, as are 99% of all people.

Jeffrey Strahl
Jeffrey Strahl
Jun 6, 2021 1:25 AM

As if it isn’t bad enough that we have fake reports of “anti-Semitic attacks,” this page seems to have gathered a small crowd of people who push anti-Semitic rhetoric, some times even pro-Hitler sympathies. One is tempted to think that the Mossad has operatives working to create such a presence, which could then be used to push claims that this page promotes anti-Semitic ideas, but i know the Mossad would never do that. 🙂

NickM
NickM
Jun 6, 2021 7:32 AM
Reply to  Jeffrey Strahl

I do not think it is a CIA/MI6 false flag op. There is of course the usual Zionazi cry of “anti-Semitism” being raised to divert attention from Israel’s latest crime against Palestinians. But I detect also some classical, pre-War anti-Jewish prejudice coming back, in the increasingly favourable climate created by and increasingly wide popular revulsion against Israel’s serial misdeeds at home and abroad. I have been warning my Israeli relatives and friends for years that such creatures would come creeping back from under their stones.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 6, 2021 12:57 PM
Reply to  NickM

I see it too, Nick. Being in my ninth decade, I have a lot of cultural memory to which I can refer. And zionistan’s crimes against humanity do seem to be re-respectablising – in the eyes of too many – a return to the casual blanket anti-semitism that I remember to be common in the middle years of the 20th century. Amongst hearers known to be tolerant of it, shallow, unthinking jew-blaming is becoming a bit of sly fun again.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 8:01 AM
Reply to  Jeffrey Strahl

If you think this page is bad you should see what we trashed! One commenter even said he wanted Jewish people to be gassed. Not sure if they are shills or genuine nutcases.

they also use different IDs and VPNs to mass-upvote and downvote. But we think it’s actually no more than five or six active lunatics/disrupters.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 9:01 AM

I suspect shills. This is what the propagandists want – and by propagandists, I don’t mean Jews or even Zionists. The rulers have always known that their most potent weapon is divide-and-rule. And they will use whatever works (some of which they may have manufactured themselves). As I keep saying, there is no bigger Pavlovian button than the Holocaust/Nazi configuration.

I also think that it is such a pragmatic use of imagery that is behind all this kerfuffle about “Holocaust denial” (whatever the truth might be – and since when did the rulers ever give a damn about the truth?)  i.e. I think that the introduction of this specific “denial” term wasn’t fuelled by anger at the “deniers” but by an attempt to keep the Holocaust in the public consciousness. The rulers don’t care if people “deny” the Holocaust, as long as they keep talking about it. (And of course, such denial will only lead to more punch ups which is what the rulers want.) The worst thing for the rulers is that people forget about the Holocaust or (the ultimate blasphemy) no longer care about it.

And if you think it is indeed blasphemous to no longer care about the Holocaust, ask yourself how many previous genocides provoke such emotional outpourings. The massacre of the Native Americans? That gets the occasional nod now and then but not much more.

I recall that there was a week of TV about three decades ago in which the Holocaust was commemorated. And Blair and his fellow parishioners got the chance to do their “concerned faces” routine. But there was one programme (which would absolutely have no chance at all of being aired now) which queried the whole matter – not by asking if it happened at all (perish the thought!) but arguing that, as one of many atrocities, the constant high-profiling of it called for an explanation. The answer given by one of the contributors would have brought the wrath of the entire Western media down now. Some woman said, after emphasising that she did not mean this in a derogatory way, “It’s a good story”. By which she meant that it had clearly identifiable good and bad sides – but of course the very word “story” has certain connotations, one of which is undoubtedly true: that the endless film depictions of the Holocaust (like depictions of any historical event) are necessarily embroidered.

But there was a deeper reason as to the high profile of the Holocaust. To put it bluntly: it happened somewhere else and it was someone else’s fault.

In the light of the fury brought down on Corbyn’s Labour Party, I do feel amused at contemplating the current media reaction were this particular documentary/debate programme to be re-shown.

Watt
Watt
Jun 6, 2021 6:58 PM
Reply to  George Mc

‘ there is no bigger Pavlovian button than the Holocaust/Nazi configuration.’

Covid 19 is catching up fast. An unproveable phenomenon appears, is widely believed and then the new villian, ‘the Covid-denier’ is pushed to the fore.

Sarah Solomon
Sarah Solomon
Jun 7, 2021 5:15 AM
Reply to  Watt

Denier has entered the lexicon in ways never imagined. Such a useful word for any fascist system.

ZigZagWanderer
ZigZagWanderer
Jun 6, 2021 5:32 PM

As with the nasty anti Semitic emails sent to Dame Margaret Hodge MP , that were used to undermine Jeremy Corbyn , the culprits are never apprehended for some reason.
I’d say there are more than 5 or 6 involved. More like 8200 in my opinion.

Sarah Solomon
Sarah Solomon
Jun 7, 2021 5:16 AM
Reply to  ZigZagWanderer

Just who does it serve? That is the question for anti Semitic emails.

Jeffrey Strahl
Jeffrey Strahl
Jun 6, 2021 10:30 PM

A few weeks ago, one comment here exalted Hitler, said his time was the most glorious time for the German people, and anyone who says otherwise just believes propaganda. He didn’t react well to my response referencing the close cooperation between the Nazi regime and multinational capital right through the war.

Sarah Solomon
Sarah Solomon
Jun 7, 2021 5:13 AM

Do not underestimate the power and reach of the Tel Aviv ‘bunkers’ where people, often students out to earn some money, work hard to push the belief in anti-semitism. Moderators need to be aware but not knee-jerk, and such trash comments certainly make them aware, if not fearful of retribution and so, perhaps, they become more kneejerk and more censorious.

The Zionist agenda is to create fear in Jews around the world in a bid to encourage them to become colonists in Palestine. Well, the Zionists don’t call it Palestine but use euphemisms like the West Bank, where it seems more like an outer suburb in Israel, rather than a land which belongs to others.

Quite what the Zionists think they can do with the millions of people who remain in Occupied Palestine in order to make way for millions more Jews is the question; but to replace them is certainly the plan.

And so, the more fear they can manufacture, the more they can believe they are moving toward their goal. If moderators can be frightened into submission, and debate diminished or censored, then the fear campaign is working. If commenters become frightened to voice an opinion, then the fear campaign is working. And so it goes.

I see no way around this given the anonymity of commenters, but would suggest that often the most rabid Jew-hating comments do not come from anti-semitic goyim, but from those who wish people to believe that anti-semitism exists and is becoming worse.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 8:35 AM
Reply to  Jeffrey Strahl

i know the Mossad would never do that

Irony?

Jeffrey Strahl
Jeffrey Strahl
Jun 6, 2021 10:31 PM
Reply to  George Mc

I thought it was obvious!

Ooink
Ooink
Jun 5, 2021 8:32 PM

The world is sick.

niko
niko
Jun 5, 2021 8:08 PM

Welcome to the New Normal, a never-ending shit show of pseudo-events and simulacra, the Spectacle now one big web of Orwellian universal deceit. Today’s ‘news’ flashed in front of me a ‘report’ of mysterious brain and neurological disabilities in New Brunswick, Canada (part of Oceania). No one could really fathom what could be the cause, but the (ludicrous) idea of it being related to covid (non)vaccines was easily dismissed by the chronology of this strange, new disease being pre-covid (even though it was just now gaining Big Brother’s attention). However, suspicion that foul play from a Russian or Chinese bioweapon was not dismissed (hey, maybe it’s from Wuhan!).

moth
moth
Jun 5, 2021 7:24 PM

No surprises here.

Big al
Big al
Jun 5, 2021 7:07 PM

Let’s see, who controls the U.S. Congress? We the People? Ha.

“Congress should hold additional hearings on the increase in hate crimes, the rise of extremist groups and proliferation of their propaganda, and support legislation, including the Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act, that calls on the federal government to improve coordinated responses and collect data on domestic terrorism.”

Antisemitic Incidents Hit All-Time High in 2019 | Anti-Defamation League (adl.org)

Text – H.R.350 – 117th Congress (2021-2022): Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act of 2021 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Truth Prevails
Truth Prevails
Jun 5, 2021 7:59 PM
Reply to  Big al
Big al
Big al
Jun 5, 2021 10:10 PM
Reply to  Truth Prevails

Into “state law”. Wonder what that means since the international definition is about holocaust denial and/or “distortion”. Is it going to be against the law to say anything contrary to the official state version of the holocaust? And why now when Israel is committing (more) genocidal war crimes? Never ending bullshit.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 3:04 AM
Reply to  Big al

Jews who died, alongside tens of millions of non-Jews at the hands of the Germans must be spinning in their graves, rocks and all, at what Israel does in their name.

Big al
Big al
Jun 6, 2021 4:53 AM
Reply to  Roslyn Ross

Well, whoever died during that period, it wasn’t all on the Germans.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Jun 6, 2021 10:49 AM
Reply to  Big al

It sure wasn’t and another taboo seems to be the slaughter of between 6-9 million German mainly women, kids and old people in concentration camps between 1945-49, people left to starve to death or die of thirst within sight of water and anyone who took food or water was shot. This carnage only stopped after about 16 million other German citizens from all over the EU had been ethnically cleansed back to Berlin. And before Sophie intervenes, there are books written with all the evidence anyone would ever need that this is a fact.

Watt
Watt
Jun 6, 2021 7:07 PM

‘Hellstorm’ The Death of Nazi Germany, 1944-1947. Thomas Goodrich. 2010.
This is accompanied by a video of the same name. Neither book or vid are easily digestible. A useful primer on some truths about WW2. ps not for the squeamish or tender minded!

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Jun 6, 2021 10:42 PM
Reply to  Watt

Have read Jacques Baches book, and After the Reich, one thing the nazis and Russians did was keep impeccable records of the torture and so did the Allies. Russian troops alone raped about quarter of a million women and girls from 8-90 until they died, The pictures of diabolically starved children in Berlin in the British quarter were gag material.

Sarah Solomon
Sarah Solomon
Jun 7, 2021 5:17 AM

A forgotten holocaust. One of many.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 7, 2021 12:12 AM
Reply to  Big al

Of course not. But the Germans/Nazis have been made the target as part of a campaign to ‘justify’ the colonisation of Palestine by European Jews.

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
Jun 5, 2021 7:00 PM

Point taken, but let’s not go so far as to automatically dismiss any and all claims of anti-Semitic violence as being bogus. Those of us who support the Palestinian cause based on universal humanitarian values must also oppose anti-Semitism.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Jun 5, 2021 10:58 PM
Reply to  Tim Drayton
  1. The phrase anti semite was invented in 1880 by a racist German who did not understand that Arabs are semites, in fact the largest group of semite on earth. Why on earth are people still claiming the rightful criticism of Israeli mass murders and ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine has anything to do with anything at all called anti semitism, a meaningless phrase in any context. Semite a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs. Now let’s unpack that Jews and Arabs. Arabs are an ethnic grouping, Jews are of any ethnicity on the planet but follow are particular religion, the two have no place being thought of as two distinct sets of people when talking about languages.

When we look at the meaning of the term anti semite under the definition above it literally means hating people who speak certain languages, which is ridiculous.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 3:09 AM

Yes, important points. Jews are followers of a religion, lapsed or not. Just like any other religion. Anti-semitic is meant to mean hatred of followers of Judaism.

Although most Jews have no semitic ancestry while many Muslims do. Such is the way of it as religions evolve and intermix. The lingering connections are with Jews who inbreed, but that is a DNA link and not a cultural link. It is also a DNA link found in many other religions and not particular to Jews.

Arabs are part of a cultural group, generally Arabic speakers, just as Africans are part of a cultural group, despite diversity of language.

Jews, like most religions, comprise all (now scientifically defunct) definitions of race and hundreds of nationalities along with thousands of cultures. The common bond is the religion.

Arabs are held together, by language and culture although anyone spending time in Israel cannot but be aware of how increasingly ‘Arabic’ the culture is. Not surprising since the coloniser tends to absorb the culture of those they colonise. European colonists have in fact become Arab in culture in Zionist Israel.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 3:04 AM
Reply to  Tim Drayton

The suggestion is not to automatically dismiss all claims of prejudice toward Jews, but to demand they are proven.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jun 5, 2021 5:48 PM

“Semitic” denote arab and hebrew speaking cultures from the middle east ? Based on the last millennium Anti Semitic violence there is not a myth ! Whereas Covid most certainly is a new myth . Attempts to link the 2 makes this article simply more of the “poor Palestinians” jargon. With the “great reset” now in progress an issue much less in the media thank goodness.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 3:12 AM
Reply to  Jim McDonagh

The Israeli Hebrew-speaking culture is barely 74 years old. The Arab-speaking culture is thousands of years old.

Yes, Hebrew was retained in a religious sense, but it is only a religious culture as applies to Latin in Christianity. Yiddish, basically a German dialect, was spoken by most Jews until the Zionists decided to re-instate Hebrew as part of their plan to pretend followers of the religion were a people and had rights to a homeland.

As to poor Palestinians, without the parentheses, in the same way we said poor French and poor Poles when they were invaded and occupied, so we say, poor Palestinians, crushed for much longer under Israel’s murderous colonial military boot.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Jun 6, 2021 10:51 AM
Reply to  Roslyn Ross

You read Shlomo Sand’s Who Invented the Jews, didn’t you?

Nottheonly1
Nottheonly1
Jun 5, 2021 5:30 PM

In a slight variation of a popular song:

“How long – will this be going on?”

Derek Williams
Derek Williams
Jun 7, 2021 2:38 PM
Reply to  Nottheonly1

Zappa seemed to have it sorted – after writing “ Jewish Princess” and getting into some form of trouble, he wrote “ Catholic Girls” and everyone seemed satisfied from what I can remember!

Nottheonly1
Nottheonly1
Jun 7, 2021 3:24 PM
Reply to  Derek Williams

There are few people I miss as much as Frank Zappa. He wanted to run for presidency at one point? Reason for his untimely death?

Derek Williams
Derek Williams
Jun 7, 2021 4:45 PM
Reply to  Nottheonly1

Fully agree – he took on lots of sacred cows in a witty but fairly brutal way – even if he was the son of a military family or whatever – as someone knowledgeable pointed out on this site some time ago.
Really miss him too nto1!

dr death
dr death
Jun 5, 2021 5:20 PM

some imbecile once sagely pronounced..

“An anti-Semite used to mean a man who hated Jews. Now it means a man who is hated by Jews.”…

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jun 5, 2021 6:28 PM
Reply to  dr death

Sadly, the variety I exclusively encounter is the former (a small but persistent minority I might add). A2

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 5, 2021 9:27 PM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

I had a friend from the southern US half Jewish, that said they generally kept that hidden. It was certainly an issue.
It was a very religious area; him claiming they were the source. This despite wide support for Israel.
I can’t quite square that.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 3:24 AM

There is real discrimination and there is imagined, expected, required and fabricated discrimination on many counts these days, including by followers of Judaism. The concept of remaining a victim and in need of ‘special treatment’ is part of the Zionist raison d’etre, and has always been critical to the fantasy that Jews, followers of the religion of Judaism, had a right and a need for their own State.

Despite the fact most Jews did not, do not and will never live in UN Mandated Israel and are in fact, safer in the dozens of different countries around the world where they do live, instead of in the Israeli colony in Palestine.

And despite the fact that religions do not get self-determination, homelands or land rights. If Jews had such a right then followers of all religions would have the same right. They do not. The Zionists invented the fantasy of followers of Judaism as a people, and while, as religious metaphor that could be argued, as it can for any religion, it cannot be argued in any literal, legal or real sense.

If the proposal to divide up someone else’s country to allow followers of one religion to set up their own State where they would have superior rights, status and power, were mooted today it would be laughed at and summarily rejected. Zionist power and money, at work from the middle of the 19th century, long before Hitler appeared, was able to ‘sell’ the fantasy in the chaos and trauma following the Second World War.

A land without people, for a ‘people’ without a land, crowed the Zionists, two lies for the price of one.

David G Horsmvan
David G Horsmvan
Jun 9, 2021 8:28 PM
Reply to  Roslyn Ross

Tx. That was a carefully considered response. I’m Canadian, grew up in a closet atheist home in Winnipeg in the 60’s. I’ve lived in all over in Vancouver, the Sunshine coast, Calgary and now Vancouver Island.

I would say that we have our share of bigots here in all ethnicities and they each have their err… focus. But generally, people in Canada couldn’t care less what you religion is and really would rather not hear about.

Ethnic self segregation is very normal. It can cause friction and does at times. It might influence hiring decisions sometimes and to a lesser degree who folks do business with. Overall it’s not a big deal here. We all get along.

For example, at 8 my friend tells me he’s Jewish at some point. I have no idea what he is even talking about and ask my Mom. She says “that just means he goes to a different church than our other neighbors” (my parents were atheists).

It was extremely common in the 60’s for the adults to attach an ethnic adjective to someone’s name. Like Hunky George (eastern Europe) if there was any friction. IE in a fight lots of slurs would be tossed around. It was also uber sexist then.

In my own generation there was quite a transformation and this is a continuous process. But I digress severely.

With anyone I knew, if a person had some fixation and hatred for Jews, or any minority. You were considered weird. Perhaps there was something wrong with you. Generally you would get to know a person a wee bit before asking such personal questions like what their religious views were.

Preaching at people was equally frowned on. As a group we were extremely disinterested in politics. We opted out. They were all fucking fascists anyway.

Today? Every chance I get I tell folks what I do and ask “Do you know anybody that’s interested in politics and world events?” Nope. Maybe that one guy??? Even my own interest is professional. I hate all this evil crap.

So I’m trying to support my point that I don’t care if you’re a purple alien were you running around killing folks. You’re Jewish? Why would you even tell me that? Like why would I care? That’s kind of where I am at where ethical issues are concerned.

In summary, I think all of the sane Jews should get the hell out of Israel if they can. Yes there is bigotry everywhere but you can’t say Jews are not safe in Canada and the US, or most of Europe. I completely agree with Roslyn Ross on this.

That isn’t a statement about any right to exist, which is another issue.

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Jun 6, 2021 10:44 PM

People cannot be half Jewish, judaism is a religion not a genetic group.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 6, 2021 11:24 PM

I understand. I am using their words, not my own. He is non-practicing and highly critical of Israel but found Southern Evangelicals frightening in their bigoted tribalism.
I assume one parent was nominally Jewish. Himself, he was disabled and very into antifascism and antiwar views.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 9:33 PM

He was referring to a parent. I don’t know what he would make of that. It’s policing his speech.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 7, 2021 9:37 PM

Maybe I should qualify that I am aware of that but there’s a cultural element? I was quoting his self-described rather toxic situation.

Sarah Solomon
Sarah Solomon
Jun 7, 2021 5:19 AM

You are Jewish or you are not Jewish. You can be a lapsed Jew like a lapsed Catholic but you cannot be half a Jew or half a Christian.

john dann
john dann
Jun 5, 2021 5:19 PM

I wish that this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB9BOEdLbAw brilliant and concise explanation of Israele – Palestina was available in English. It was made 6 years ago has over a million view (some 400,000 in the last few months). It is a disinterested and artless overview of the ongoing conflict. I bring it up because at the conclusion the narrator cautions us about the use of the term anti-Semitism, since Palestinians are themselves Semitic People. This reality adds another dynamic the the discussion of the use of the term anti-Semitism.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 3:36 AM
Reply to  john dann

Good for those who speak Italian. The reality is the history is irrelevant. The only issue which exists is the reality that the indigenous people of Palestine, some 6 million of them, have been crushed under Israeli military colonial rule for 74 years and are denied all reparation, compensation, recognition and human and civil rights.

The religious and real history of the region matters not a whit, and certainly not to younger generations who don’t care what happened 74 years ago, let alone 2,000 years. And since most people in the world are not fundamentalist Jews or Christians, they care even less.

Peter Abraham
Peter Abraham
Jun 6, 2021 6:32 AM
Reply to  john dann

Short hair on women. Another bankster imposition. I lost count of the number of men I saw this morning on an outing that sported effeminate hair buns.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 8:08 AM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

my Goodness what an ignorant comment. Long hair – and buns – have been symbols of masculinity in different cultures for millennia.

Try to be less parochial.

Mehitabel
Mehitabel
Jun 6, 2021 1:05 PM

I do enjoy that the little gang of racists in the comments here are so obviously sexually insecure aging white guys. 🤣

Marilyn Shepherd
Marilyn Shepherd
Jun 6, 2021 10:45 PM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

Oh dear, what a sad little man.

Peter
Peter
Jun 7, 2021 4:28 AM

I will refrain from speculating on your shape and your state of mind in retaliation. Androgyny is something that is promoted by the banksters. This has reached grotesque levels presently but the promotion started with the Marxist promotion of the switching of hairstyles between the sexes. Rock stars institutionalised this in the sixties. Remember that a majority of musicians visit the apartheid state and are now promoting the deadly injections. We ought to have the freedom to express our opinions on cultural offensives promoted by the banking cartels and their media.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 8, 2021 8:58 AM
Reply to  Peter

So when Viking raiders braided their long locks – were they “switching hairstyles between the sexes”? Being effeminate?

how about a contemporary guy with a man bun and full beard?

Sarah Solomon
Sarah Solomon
Jun 7, 2021 5:20 AM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

Hair buns as a solely feminine practice is historically recent. Males in history have worn hair buns, makeup, high heels and dresses. It is all just fashion or fad.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 5, 2021 5:05 PM

What’s the secret of a good jo-timing-ke.

It’s always the giveaway, even more than ‘follow the money’.

The timing of the accusations is a clue to their being staged. The show must go on and The Producers are on hand to ensure that it does.

“Springtime, da dum-dum, da di-da-di…”

Time is grim for all. There are no prior calls or dibs on grievance in this era

Even if you go looking for it

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 5, 2021 5:36 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

I worry 80% of people under 40 won’t get the joke — that they don’t see how humour is a valid tool to deflate unjustified presumption of power.

The Producers could never be made today. That is why po- faced liars are getting away with false accusations of victimhood!

People share homogenised memes but have no idea of the absurdist anarchy of Mel Brooks or who he was and would hiss and twitter if they did.

We must weaponize humour and keep it alive. Don’t be shy. Tear off your masks and kick your heels high!

Share your guffaws, your spittle — droplets as the disgusting Anthony Fauci calls them — and be proud and liberal with your bodily fluids.

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 5, 2021 7:10 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Apologies to Mr Brooks, a sprightly 94, for skimping on the tense.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 7:48 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

The Producers could never be made today.

And the times they are a’changin’ so fast now that the pedantic and now psychotic terror of offending anyone is applying to more and more recent programmes.

There is the Father Ted mickey take of racism via the Chinese episode. That it may cause offense to anyone at all was something that never crossed my mind. If it had, it may have struck me that the two local Nazi aficionados might be nearer the bone. But then – and this is the whole point – that episode took the piss out of racism itself!

(Incidentally, how long till someone cottons on to the fact that Father Jack is a comic alcoholic and starts up a petition to ban the show for being offensive to recovering alkies?)

And I’m currently just catching up on Peaky Blinders where there’s a gay guy who is, thankfully, not treated with respect – because this is fucking 1930 we are talking about!

I recently attempted to read China Miéville’s October about the Russian Revolution and had to stop when I read a description of the build up to 1917 as involving “dissidents from the queer hinterland”! Gosh I didn’t know that pre-revolutionary Russia had an LGBT movement! (I think starving peasants may have had more to worry about than their sexuality!) 

But perhaps the ultimate example of political correctness serving reactionary ends is the sad fate of the musical Showboat. The very first line of this song was a deliberate affront to the audience. And such it the offence that I doubt if I’ll be able to type it fully: 

“N*****s all work on the Mississippi/ N*****s all work while the white folks play” 

And then the N word became “Darkies” (ooh did I get away with that?) And then “Coloured folks” and then simply “We all work on the Mississippi”. And lo! The entire point of the musical is gone! It’s no longer about racism at all! It’s just an ethnic minority “celebrating diversity”! And the racist past of the US is covered up – just as the racists want it to be!

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 8:13 PM
Reply to  George Mc

My Miéville quote should have been “sexual dissidents from the queer hinterland”. Which makes the following comments more sensible.

Peter Abraham
Peter Abraham
Jun 6, 2021 6:39 AM
Reply to  George Mc

On the now defunct site I used to post on the N world could be freely used and was in the most offensive manner. However the K world was instantly replaced with four x’s. A rather frank Marxist acknowledgement of the hierarchy of the races.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 6, 2021 9:13 AM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

I was wondering what you meant by the “K” word and then I realised you (presumably) mean the one that rhymes with “bikes”?

Yes, mind management is a fascinating topic. The Left have definitely been moulded to fit a certain requirement i.e. the notion that all prejudices are bad, but anti-Semitism is always singled out as some kind of extra special prejudice, occurring on a much more demoniacal level. (And how revoltingly ironic it is that various propagandists always claim that anti-Semitism is the one prejudice that is being overlooked!)

I recall remarking to one Marxist blogger that all sorts of historical documents are just waiting to be exploited as examples of anti-Semitism – when they are not e.g. Marx’s own “On The Jewish Question”. And, instead of taking on my point, this blogger flew into a tirade about how Marx himself would have been carted off to Auschwitz! Thus this blogger himself inadvertently became an example of the very knee-jerk stupidity I was complaining about!

Why are the Left so dumb when it comes to psychological manipulation?

Nottheonly1
Nottheonly1
Jun 5, 2021 5:40 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

One of the funniest movies ever made. And so foreboding.

elsewhere
elsewhere
Jun 5, 2021 6:25 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

Speaking of timing reminds me of ‘My Favorite Year’ where one of the actors explains how to tell a joke: First rule: never tell a joke sitting down. You have to be on your feet – and use your hands: “This guy walks into a Psychiatrist’s office. He has a duck on his head. The Psychiatrist says, “Can I help you?” (Timing: pregnant pause) And the duck says, “Yeah, can you get this guy off my ass?”

Howard
Howard
Jun 6, 2021 5:12 PM
Reply to  elsewhere

I must have a perverse sense of humor. The joke was funnier to me before the punch line. A guy with a duck on his head – and the first words out of the psychiatrist’s mouth is “Can I help you?” That, I would call deadpan.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 5, 2021 9:42 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

I’ve got one for you.

Hitler Orders a Pizza

Big al
Big al
Jun 5, 2021 10:17 PM

Oh man, that is hilarious. That guy should get an academy award.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jun 6, 2021 9:03 PM
Reply to  Moneycircus

“Speaking of which say hello to Adolf’s nutjob kid brother Benny.”

https://twitter.com/suealan07/status/500471039306915841/photo/1

“Both seem to have a penchant for invading places and mass murdering the hoi polloi.”

NickM
NickM
Jun 5, 2021 4:37 PM

“How to Make Friends and Influence People”, by Dale Carnegie.

Some people skip straight to the second part.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 4:34 PM

I mean seriously – considering the absolute monotonous repetition of a miniscule rhetorical space and subject matter all across every slimy tentacle of the media and with the tie-ins between the virus and anti-Semitism and all this happening well in advance i.e. even from last spring, by this point, anyone who doesn’t suspect a conspiracy must be totally brain dead!

CryptoKazar
CryptoKazar
Jun 6, 2021 12:42 PM
Reply to  George Mc

And lets not forget Pfizer is an Israeli company and most of the other Pharmaceutical companies are majority owned by Investment Banks of a certain religious origin, such as Black Rock, but ignore the clear pattern otherwise our media will label you an “antisemite”

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 4:22 PM

Interesting to see the expressions “spike” and “surge” in the above picture. Are we tying into the viral propaganda here: echoes between covid and anti-Semitism? If I start reading about a “tsunami” of anti-Semitism then I think it’s case closed.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 4:27 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Spoke too soon:

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-coronavirus-crisis-unleashed-tsunami-of-anti-semitism-trump-official-says-1.8820596

Coronavirus Crisis Unleashed ‘Tsunami’ of anti-Semitism, Trump Official Says

And this was last year! Gosh they were well trained!

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 5, 2021 9:07 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Lol. I thought of that immediately. How ironic it was.

NickM
NickM
Jun 5, 2021 4:38 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Same Con-spirators calling up the same PR firm?

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 4:14 PM

In the end it’s all about Pavlovian buttons and nothing else. Whatever the truth of the matter (and it’s interesting that the moment you even start asking questions about it, you get jumped on), the Holocaust /Jews /Nazis configuration comprises the most fundamental political crime scenario in Western consciousness – and indeed the Ultimate Evil of All Time!

So there are the buttons just waiting to be pressed: the Jews, the Nazis, the Holocaust, Anti-Semitism, strangely ever inexplicable “hate”, barbed wire, vicious dogs patrolling, chimneys belching etc. 

The rulers and their media could not give a flying fuck about truth or fairness or investigation or critique. All they want to do is activate these buttons. Push push push!

But they are slipping now. It has been over 70 years since the events in question happened (and you can take that “in question” in more ways than one). The more time passes, the more generations rise and fall, the further into the past it all drifts, the harder it is to keep those nice buttons all shiny and effective. Consider one of those claims above: we hear about how in 2002, there was an attack on “elderly women…who survived the Holocaust.” In 2002 you could still say such a thing. But if you tried that in 2021, the question would inevitably rise: “How elderly were these elderly women?” By this time, they must be slipping into triple figures.

Also cf. a comment from Norman Finkelstein’s mother: “If all the people who claim to have survived the Holocaust really did, then who did Hitler kill?”

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jun 5, 2021 6:24 PM
Reply to  George Mc

I appreciate your effort to keep this comment neutral and objective and not linking your hints at ‘questions’ with some broader tapestry of ethnic conspiracy. Given the way Nazis persecuted innocent people from ethnic and cultural minorities, it is utterly hateful when commenters seek to downplay this using diversion tactics, alleging ‘this’ or ‘that’ is false and therefore that the nazis weren’t that bad really. Or, worse still, suggesting the Nazis actions were somehow justified. No other way of looking at it other than disseminating hate. Which breaks our Comment Policy. We have a duty to be scholars and historians, to be dispassionate and disciplined in the way we research and recount the past. Not use it as a means to ‘out the joos’ at every goddam available opportunity. XD A2

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 7:24 PM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

I am fully aware of the emotive powder keg of this topic and of how that very aspect is a tool for propaganda. The moment you take a critical stance, there are those eager to jump on you for being a “denier” meanwhile others are happy to take your hints and distort and inflate them into a full blown genuine anti-Semitic conspiracy theory – this latter serving as a kind of intellectual agent provocateur move.

I never thought of “ethnic conspiracy” (the result of the aforementioned agent provocateur move). But I am aware that certain political groupings are willing to shamelessly play tricks with history to achieve their ends. My basic suspicion – and I am only tentatively suggesting this – is that the whole matter of Nazi atrocities has been ceaselessly trumpeted and (dare I say) embroidered to bolster political ends – mainly on behalf of the then newly arising American Empire.

Every empire needs a good PR image. To insist that it is simply the Great and the Good isn’t enough – though, God knows, we keep hearing it about the fucking Yanks anyway!

But it makes more of an impression to have a truly evil enemy. With the Soviet Union ostensibly “our friend” in the immediate aftermath of WW2, the Big Bad Russian bear wasn’t ready to be rolled out yet as that enemy. So, the most obvious choice was the newly defeated (and conveniently small) nation of Germany. I am not saying that the Nazis were maligned good guys – only that it served the interests of the newly rising “international police force” i.e. the States to have a satisfyingly demonic enemy and the little guy with the funny moustache who screamed a lot and the marching goose steppers fit the bill. So perhaps – just perhaps – some of the monstrous tales we have heard have been a little … enhanced? 

Watt
Watt
Jun 5, 2021 8:04 PM
Reply to  George Mc

See A.R. Butz. Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences. Wrote ‘The Hoax of the 20th Century’. 1976 HR Press. ‘Enhanced‘ is on the path, yes.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 5, 2021 11:29 PM
Reply to  George Mc

Norman Finkelstein nails it when he speaks of the weaponisation/politicisation of the nazi genocide, calling its modern re-invention as a continual excuse and fig-leaf for the genocidal crimes of zionistan-in-Palestine ‘The Holocaust Industry’.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 4:04 AM
Reply to  George Mc

There is no doubt that Nazi Germany was responsible for great horrors. But was it the worst in human history? Probably not. The Germans were not the first, not the last and not the worst in terms of inflicting experiences of holocaust on countless millions.

Stalinism killed 60 million, give or take and the Chinese Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot in Cambodia make for truly horrific reading. As does the Japanese occupation of China.

The problem with singling out Hitler and the Nazis is that it distracts humans from their own capacity for evil and the problem with elevating one experience of holocaust, that of followers of Judaism, to superior level, denies the equal suffering of others.

Is an experience of holocaust suffered in the name of one’s religion, i.e. Judaism, greater than an experience of holocaust suffered in the name of one’s ‘race,’ culture, nation? Of course not. All humans suffer as humans and therefore all suffering is equal.

Perhaps the greatest proof that this elevation of Jewish suffering has not brought positive results, is the reality of the treatment of Palestinian Christians and Muslims today, by Israeli Zionist Jews. When we take up a victim mentality we become blind to our own capacity for evil.

The victim mentality of Judaism was well entrenched long before the Germans arrived on the scene, and one only has to stand at the Wailing Wall in occupied Jerusalem, listening to the prayers, to understand that Judaism encourages suffering for all wrongs ever done to any Jews, including wrongs which are thousands of years old.

In psychological terms, that is unhealthy for a religion, a nation, a culture and an individual where the only healthy response to trauma is to process, release and move on.

Peter Abraham
Peter Abraham
Jun 6, 2021 6:50 AM
Reply to  Roslyn Ross

There was the American holocaust, the Late Victorian Holocausts, the African holocaust and many others.

suddyan
suddyan
Jun 5, 2021 8:22 PM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

[….it is utterly hateful when commenters seek to downplay this using diversion tactics…]

I would appreciate if you were willing to indicate, for all readers to see, exactly where (line and verse) the earlier commenter “downplayed” the “way Nazis persecuted innocent people from ethnic and cultural minorities.

By the way: the first large-scale use of “concentration camps” were by the British during the Boer War. I suggest you go and compare those atrocities by the British (in relative scale against the local white and black people at that time) and see how the odds relate to the Germans actions.

I mention that and others just in case you would like to respond that the German WWII atrocities was “indeed the Ultimate Evil of All Time!“, and saying anything less is “downplaying.” Ultimate is an almost unachievable claim.

Some other examples: Have you any idea at what scale Genghis Khan (and his heirs) operated? Or maybe Tamerlane? What he did to conquered people? Or have you spoken to any Rwandan Tutsis lately?

I condemn all atrocities. I also stand for honest, objective, free speech (including about the exact, true details of all atrocities without any one of them being declared sacrosanct and beyond discussion). Mostly I see such honest, open speech at this site. But I must confess: I found your comment rather worrying.

Note. If you are nervous because your government has declared certain speech (which may even be true speech) illegal, then I suggest that you make it clear that that is the case, and not respond in the way you did.

[We have a duty to be scholars and historians, to be dispassionate and disciplined in the way we research and recount the past.]

Then I highly recommend you do exactly that. Us humans should be able to honestly investigate, discuss, and even compare ALL the bad things we seem to continually be doing to each other. If you stop such discussion, then I suggest you will yourself be a willing accomplice to those bad things you claim to oppose.

[ No other way of looking at it other than disseminating hate.]

Let me also make this abundantly clear: There is not even an inch of hate towards any person or grouping in me or my comment, neither did I detect any in the other commenter’s comment. In turn, therefore, I firstly regard your observation as bordering on false insinuation against the other commenter. Secondly, rather than any so-called “hate,” what I feel is a large amount of sadness at the way so many humans play sanctimonious moral games with the truth.

At the moment you are one of a few beacons of open, free, honest speech around. Here’s my fervent hope that you can keep it so.

Blessthebeasts
Blessthebeasts
Jun 6, 2021 2:17 AM
Reply to  suddyan

I agree. The word “hate” is being thrown around willy nilly these days to attack anyone with an opposing point of view. I would “hate” to withdraw my support of this site, but I notice today that my comments aren’t being posted.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 6:50 PM
Reply to  Blessthebeasts

When we say ‘hate’ we are referring to those who dislike or fear or want to punish or persecute a group of people based on their race or religion.

For example, a person who believes all Jews are somehow to be blamed for the crimes Israel commits and who wants to see the Jewish people ‘pay’ in unspecified ways – we would define that as ‘hate’.

Or a person who wants to see the Jewish elites ‘investigated’, but is apparently fine with non-Jewish elites – we would call that racist.

would you disagree?

and every comment you have made today HAS been posted.

You’re welcome.

Blessthebeasts
Blessthebeasts
Jun 6, 2021 7:14 PM

Oh, I agree that ALL the elites should be investigated, absolutely. I was actually referring to the phenomenon of “hate speech” which has become so prevalent, where any criticism of a “person of color” is branded as racist.
And I still haven’t seen the innocuous comment I made about Palestinians being Semitic people in response to a comment by Tim Drayton at about 7pm. Maybe it’s a glitch because I received an email that someone had replied to it.

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jun 7, 2021 12:24 AM
Reply to  suddyan

You mistakenly think I was criticising the above commenter, whereas if you reread you’ll notice I was doing no such thing.

OK, you aren’t a moderator so perhaps you aren’t familiar with the actual hateful comments I refer to, made by a small minority. Maybe I was too oblique. However, they certainly know who they are.

These are just nasty, petty, racist haters who insinuate themselves into discussions and steer topics in bigoted directions, ensnaring innocent contributors along the way. They also use multiple VPN upvotes/downvotes to create the illusion of support, with comical promptness and predictability.

I put it to you that you wouldn’t enjoy posting here alongside this. ‘Free expression’ would be all but impossible.

It could be that trollers are finding themselves frustrated lately. Since our moderating team does such a good job, they don’t cause half as much nuisance as they used to.

So, as much as I appreciate your spirit, we’re doing the same thing we’ve always done. Do not worry. Thank you for your kind words. I agree, I think Off-g is doing something very rare and special! 😀 A2

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 5, 2021 11:22 PM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

Speaking of which, the nazis had some stiff competition, not least Churchill’s contribution to creating the Bengal famine during WW2, which was quite a wilful holocaust in its own right; but by no means the only one.

If you study Dr. Gideon Polya’s reckoning up of all the historic genocides/holocausts, you begin to realise that the nazis, vile sods though they were, were just following an ancient tradition; and they didn’t exactly lead the field, either.

And then, of course, there’s the genocide-level holocaust of deaths visited on the oil-lands of the ME just recently by the Anglozionist empire – post WW2. With well over a million in Iraq alone, the total – if we ever get to uncover it clearly – must be pushing six million by now, maybe more…

BTW, mine is one of the upvotes for Sam-admin’s carefully-judicious comment just above. Idiotically-racist hostility, insult and actual violence sucks – wherever you meet it. There’s never any excuse. Zionism is a crime against humanity, and has to join nazism and apartheid in history’s toxic waste bins. But anti-semitism – whether against (actually-semitic) jews, Arabs or Iranians, is always an abomination.

mgeo
mgeo
Jun 6, 2021 8:00 AM

No need to go back as far as Bengal. Look at what the Allies (including Russians) did to the Germans and Japs during and after WW2. And the reparations the Germans are still paying.

Roslyn Ross
Roslyn Ross
Jun 6, 2021 3:54 AM
Reply to  George Mc

When a topic is censored, as the Jewish experience of Holocaust is, the only logical conclusion is that there must be information available which questions if not negates the running narrative. I mean, what a plus if they could prove that 6.5 million died, or even 7 million? The problem of course is if the figure was not just lower but dramatically lower.

There is no doubt that followers of Judaism died at the hands of the Nazis, alongside tens of millions of others who died, not for their religions, but for their race, culture, politics, sexual proclivity and plain old fashioned bad luck.

Does it really matter if less than 6 million died? Does it really matter how they died, i.e. poor living conditions and the same brutality everyone else suffered? It does to the Zionists who have made it critical to their ‘argument’ for the right of Jews to colonise Palestine.

However, even if the 6 million figure were correct and all of the stories about how it happened were also correct, does that give a group, in this case, followers of Judaism, the right to inflict holocaust on others who actually had nothing to do with their suffering anyway, and to continue to do so for nearly a century? And seriously, if they had set up their State in Germany and were doing to Germans what they do to Palestinians, would or could that be justified?

Any comprehension of justice, rule of law, human rights, democracy and common human decency would shout a resounding, NO.

Time for Jews to grow up and get over their ‘bad childhood’ and stop playing victim and blaming others. Most have of course, but the fanatics are mired in the delusion of victimhood and will need to be forced out for their own sake and that of others. The religion in fact needs to be saved not just from the Zionists but from the worst of itself.

Peter Abraham
Peter Abraham
Jun 6, 2021 1:09 PM
Reply to  George Mc

All facts are sacrosanct, but some facts are more sacrosanct than others. And some are not sacrosanct at all.

Séance
Séance
Jun 5, 2021 4:00 PM

Thanks Michael valid points
i very much doubt we would ever see in the media a ‘Israel variant’
But Indian, Kent which is near Dover, South Africa and Brazil seem to be okey

Donald Duck
Donald Duck
Jun 5, 2021 3:59 PM

Yep, see the zionist instant response unit (below) on the job. Note: there is no measured response to the article – how can there be a response to mass murder? – just smart Alec quips from smug little smart-arses. The only good arab is a dear arab – Right!

Donald Duck
Donald Duck
Jun 5, 2021 4:00 PM
Reply to  Donald Duck

that’s dead arab. 

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jun 5, 2021 3:56 PM

“Zionism (which is racist and wrong) is not Judaism. Never was, never will be. The Zionazi Death KKKult essentially is a War Racketeer Langley-Land operation. The asshole thugs from Borough Park, Williamsburg, and other parts of Brooklyn, Queens and the greater NYC metro area have much in common with the asshole thugs in white sheets who burn crosses on peoples’ lawns.”

https://electronicintifada.net/

suddyan
suddyan
Jun 5, 2021 8:30 PM
Reply to  S Cooper

[“Zionazi Death KKKult” “War Racketeer Langley-Land” “asshole thugs“]

The schoolyard name-calling is strong in this one. Oh my.

S Cooper
S Cooper
Jun 5, 2021 9:01 PM
Reply to  suddyan

comment image

les online
les online
Jun 6, 2021 2:44 AM
Reply to  suddyan

“…pettiness plays so rough…”

Mike Rogers
Mike Rogers
Jun 5, 2021 3:18 PM

Ahh. A fan of Jeremy Corbin, I see.

Mishko
Mishko
Jun 5, 2021 3:47 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

Bravo sir, well played. =)

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 5, 2021 4:05 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

Er – that’s Corbyn, Mike. Your spelling’s as shit as your logic.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 4:30 PM

And who first mentioned JC anyway? Oh well at least “Mishko” is impressed!

Mike Rogers
Mike Rogers
Jun 5, 2021 8:05 PM

The spell-checker – IE me – got it wrong, for that I apologize, although it seems everybody knew who I meant.
I can’t stand Jew-hatred, wherever it pops up. I don’t expect to be liked for calling out this piece. Being liked is for wimps.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 5, 2021 11:36 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

Can’t disagree with any of that Mike. But whereTF is the Corbyn connection? He doesn’t like anti-semitism either.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jun 6, 2021 6:52 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

The author of this article is Jewish and proud to be so.

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 4:17 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

Who’s Jeremy Corbin?

Moneycircus
Moneycircus
Jun 5, 2021 5:00 PM
Reply to  George Mc

I thought it might have been a Corbijn, as in Anton Johannes Gerrit Corbijn van Willenswaard… but I realize I was in the wrong Mode.

Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton
Jun 5, 2021 7:11 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

Are you referring to the Jeremy Corbyn who, inter alia, organised and took part in the April 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march?

Fifty times Jeremy Corbyn stood with Jewish people
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/09/fifty-times-jeremy-corbyn-stood-with-jewish-people/

Mike Rogers
Mike Rogers
Jun 5, 2021 8:03 PM
Reply to  Tim Drayton

I’ve seen his other stuff. You wonder why Labour went down in flames?

Waldorf
Waldorf
Jun 5, 2021 9:12 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

I know Johnson wrote a novel, Seventy-Two Virgins, containing the claim the media are run by Jewish oligarchs, without stirring up a hornet’s nest. Wonder why that was?

George Mc
George Mc
Jun 5, 2021 11:19 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

More deliberate provocation. The smears against Corbyn were the lowest point for the British media and the worst case of a totally manufactured non-story – at least until covid.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 5, 2021 11:44 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

Once again, Mike: WTF are you talking about? Didn’t you notice how the Labour party ballooned to the biggest mass-membership party in Europe during his leadership? That big mass – which represents an even bigger mass of people in the Brit electorate – flocked to him in hope, because of the policies he helped to get into the 2017 G£ Labour manifesto; which would quite probably have got him the premiership because of the hope it gave to so many Brits, but for the orchestrated vile torrent of – quite knowingly – false accusations of anti-semitism, which he was too mild to throw back into the faces of his accusers, as he should have.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jun 5, 2021 11:46 PM

Sorry: GE!

Mike
Mike
Jun 6, 2021 6:37 PM

Didn’t care for his policies, either. If government acts like Santa to some, it has to act like an armed bandit to the rest.

David G. Horsman
David G. Horsman
Jun 5, 2021 9:10 PM
Reply to  Mike Rogers

Why are we discussing my tailor?