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Drinking Coffee in the Early Morning Rain and Thinking of Donald Rumsfeld

Edward Curtin

It’s been raining incessantly for three days. It is a cool early morning in the beginning of July and I have just made a cup of coffee. Now an electrical power outage has occurred and so I am sitting in a rocking chair in the semi-darkness savoring my coffee and feeling thankful that I made it in time.

I have a close relationship with coffee and the end of night and the break of day. As for time, that is as mysterious to me as the fact that I am sitting here in its embrace. The electric clocks have stopped. I think: To exist – how amazing!

More than the coffee, however, I am luxuriating in the sound of the tumbling rain. Its beautiful music creates a cocoon of peace within which I find temporary joy.  The joy of doing nothing, of pursuing no purpose. Of knowing that whatever I do it will never be enough, for me or anyone, and the world will continue turning until time stands still, or whatever time does or is according to those who invented it.

I will be gone and others will have arrived and the water will flow from the skies and the clocks will still tell people what they don’t know – time – although they will continue to tell it.

Humans are the telling animals.

A few weeks ago, when this area was in a mini-drought, the local newspaper, in the typical wisdom of such cant, had a headline that said “there is a threat of rain later this week.”  They are experts at threats. This is the corporate media’s purpose.

Rain is a threat, joy is a threat, doing nothing is a threat, the sun is a threat – but the real threats they conceal.  To create fear seems to be their purpose, as they do not tell us about the real threats.  Their purpose is not to tell the truth, but if you listen closely you can hear it.

In the middle of the night I woke up to go to the bathroom, and outside the small bathroom window I watched the rain engulfing the lower roof and sluicing down the shingles in two heavy streams.  I thought how the desiccated mind of the headline writer must be feeling now, but then I realized that he or she was asleep, as usual.  There is a moist world and a dry one, and the corporate media is run by arid souls who would like to make the world a desert like their masters of war in Washington.

Then as I sit here my brief peace is roiled by the memory of reading Tacitus, the Roman historian, and his famous quote of Calgacus, an enemy of Rome:

These plunderers of the world [the Romans], after exhausting the land by their devastations, are rifling the ocean: stimulated by avarice, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor; unsatiated by the East and by the West: the only people who behold wealth and indigence with equal avidity. To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a desert, they call it peace.

I think of former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on his recent deathbed. Here was a man whose entire life was dedicated to the American Empire.  He spent all his allotted time making war or making money from the spoils of war. He was a desert maker, a slaughterer for the Empire.  No doubt he died very rich in gold.

I can no longer hear the rain because my mind is filled with the loud thought of what Rumsfeld thought as he lay dying.

Was he sorry?  Did he believe in God or was his god Mars, the Roman god of war?   Did he smile a bloody smile or say he was sorry and beg for forgiveness from all his innocent victims?  Did he see the faces of the children of Iraq that he slaughtered?  Or did he pull an Eichmann and say, “I will leap into my grave laughing”?

Your guess is as good as mine, but mine leans toward the bloody smile of a life well spent in desert making.  But that is a “known unknown.”

Rolling thunder and a lightning strike in the east jolt me back from my deaf dark thoughts.  The sound of the rain returns.  The coffee tastes great.  Peace returns with the unalloyed gift of the ravishing rain.

Yet the more I sit and listen and watch it soundly stipple the garden and grass, the more thoughts come to me, as my father once told me: Thoughts think us as much as we think thoughts.  It’s what we do with our thoughts that count, he said, and like lightning, if we don’t flash when we are given the gift of life, when we’re gone, it will be as if we never were, like the lightning before it flashed.

Thomas Merton’s prophetic words from his hermitage in the Kentucky woods in 1966 think me:

Let me say this before rain becomes a utility that they can plan and distribute for money. By ‘they’ I mean the people who cannot understand that rain is a festival, who do not appreciate its gratuity, who think that what has no price has no value, that what cannot be sold is not real, so that the only way to make something actual is to place it on the market. The time will come when they will sell you even your rain. At the moment it is still free, and I am in it. I celebrate its gratuity and its meaninglessness.

There are moments in many lives when, if one is lucky, they are initiated into a ritual that sustains them throughout life. To others, these experiences can easily seem paltry and meaningless, but to the receiver they offer a crack into deeper dimensions of being and becoming. 

For me it was my introduction to coffee during a hurricane.

My father had driven my mother, three of my sisters, and me to Jones Beach on Long Island. This was before people checked the weather every minute. The sky in the southwest grew darker as we drove, but on we went.  The beach was deserted except for some gulls and the parking lot empty.

My father parked the car close to the beach and while my sisters and mother sat in the car, and my mother, listening to the weather reports, issued warnings to us, my father and I ran like wild dogs into the heavy surf despite her admonitions that the hurricane from the south was arriving sooner than expected.

It started to rain hard. The surf picked up.  We swam and got battered and shouted exultantly and came out shaking with the chills. A pure white seagull landed on my wet head and my father laughed.

Awe-struck, I stood stock-still and my shaking stopped. In its mouth the seagull held a purple ribbon, which it dropped at my feet as it flew off.  I grabbed the ribbon and we jogged up to the concession building where there was one man working.  My father ordered coffee and a hot chocolate for me.  But they had run out of hot chocolate.  So my father ordered two coffees and filled mine with three or four sugars.

I had never sampled coffee and didn’t like the smell, but my father said to drink it, with the sugar it will taste good and it will warm you up.  It strangely tasted like hot chocolate. We toasted our adventure as I drank my Proustian madeleine at eleven years old.

I had put the ribbon on the counter as we drank. When we were going back to the car, I noticed there were words on the ribbon. They said: Rest in peace.  I have long lost the ribbon but retain its message.

So now every morning, between the end of night and the break of day, I sit with my coffee and listen. And even when it isn’t raining, I watch the birds emerge from their nightly rests to greet the day with their songs. They tell me many things, and they are all free.

This morning I am wondering if Donald Rumsfeld ever heard them.

I suspect their message was an “unknown unknown” for him, just like the gift of rain. He preferred the rain of death from the skies in the form of bombs and missiles. He was only doing his job.

He made a desert and called it peace.

Edward Curtin is an independent writer whose work has appeared widely over many years. His website is edwardcurtin.com and his new book is Seeking Truth in a Country of Lies.

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Francis
Francis
Jul 21, 2021 8:01 AM

Synchronocity.
On seeing this article, Rain and the Rhinoceros was my first feeling written by Thomas Merton, and low and behold half way down!
I have at least 50 books written by Fr Louis, the contemplative monk, poet and writer- his book New Seeds of Comtemplation was of seminal influence on my inner life; and his essay A Time of No Room in his book Raids on the Unspeakable caused my mind to crack hard against my skull. A modern version of God’s admonition to Lot to leave with his family the toxicity of Sodom and Gormorrah and not look back. But Lots wife did look back- the fear of freedom and the abyss.

strange
strange
Jul 14, 2021 7:13 AM

Good article with wonderful first four paragraphs. Thanks Edward!

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 13, 2021 11:39 PM
aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 8:51 AM

The rain is indeed a beautiful thing. I have many happy memories of times in typhoons with family and friends. You “shocked” my memory and brought back those happy times.

Tamara
Tamara
Jul 13, 2021 9:36 AM
Reply to  aspnaz

“If you have nothing to say, say nothing. I say this to help you.”

-aspnaz

Tamara
Tamara
Jul 13, 2021 5:13 AM

Author speculates on the thoughts & feelings of someone he didn’t know. Evokes images of coffee and rain.

Sentimental drivel. Should play well here.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 8:48 AM
Reply to  Tamara

If you have nothing to say, say nothing. I say this to help you.

Howard
Howard
Jul 15, 2021 3:00 AM
Reply to  Tamara

Coffee and rain fuel sentiment? I guess they do. Thoughts & feelings of a stranger evoke sentimentality? I suppose they can.

But they could also serve as a point of departure for a deeper consideration of human existence.

Mark Twain is often criticized for his overt sentimentality. One could also argue it was a cover for a very radical presentation of life.

Peter
Peter
Jul 13, 2021 12:53 AM

Coffee & Bird Diversity

How coffee plantations affect tropical bird biodiversity (nationalgeographic.com)

(Sadly you have to sign in to read the article).

banjocat
banjocat
Jul 12, 2021 9:02 PM

Well done. I really enjoyed this… spot on with Rumsfeld. Story telling is such a lost art… we need to recapture our language and express ourselves with this type of beauty and rhythm to counter the word spells of the soulless controllers – the locusts that devour this world and destroy all life.

The Coming Revolution
The Coming Revolution
Jul 12, 2021 8:52 PM

Thank you Mr. Curtin for this, I really enjoyed it. It is for all of that you describe that we must fight the darkness that is trying to engulf us, and if, God forbid, we lose, nature in its wisdom has an a answer for that too, for then, life becoming intolerable, to die fighting becomes a deliverance.

Malatok
Malatok
Jul 12, 2021 6:27 PM

Nice Jonathan Livingstone story… shame you had to resurrect the psychopathic ghoul of the unknown knowns to tell it…..I have more respect for Vlad the Impaler than that Pentacon filth that wallowed in the slaughter of the innocent. The list is long…Kissinger, Bush the lesser and his Dubya spawn that was even lesser….

Obomber, Clinton…Creepy Joe … ad nauseam. The sickness of the USSAN nightmare that will not be stopped until it is Hiroshimaed.

Pox Amerikana, like its Kill Bill gates of hell covaids wuflu, can no longer be tolerated.

rob2
rob2
Jul 12, 2021 4:14 PM

My goodness. I think this has to be one of the best essays I’ve read by Mr. Curtain. And that seagull! Remnds me of Jesus’s baptism. Very touching read. Thank you.

Tesla Ozone Therapy works
Tesla Ozone Therapy works
Jul 12, 2021 2:16 PM

“There is a moist world and a dry one, and the corporate media is run by arid souls who would like to make the world a desert like their masters of war in Washington.”

Arid souls. I love that. The cracked, shriveled souls of eugenics and “end of history” ideologies see no reason or value in investing in life-enriching projects, only in devising ways to exacerbate humanity’s demise.

Water is the source of life on this water planet. We should all be grateful to those who recognize its gift to generate power, agriculture and simple pleasures.

How The Rivers Appeared In Libya Just Beneath The Sahara The Amazing Gaddafi Project

DonDon
DonDon
Jul 12, 2021 12:29 PM

That Calgacus quote wasn’t really from Calgacus at all.

It was just made up by Tacitus.

Tacitus was writing propaganda for his father-in-law, Agrippa.

Agrippa was campaigning in Caledonia.

The Romans got their arses ripped.

rubberheid
rubberheid
Jul 12, 2021 3:27 PM
Reply to  DonDon

you’re right up to a point: Calgacus’s words are indeed roman propaganda to glorify the success of the roman scum led by AGRICOLA over such wordy and insightful “barbarians”, indeed. But, the romans didn’t get their arses ripped, they ripped Pict arses instead.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 12, 2021 11:39 AM

Really poetic and flowing peice Edward, minus the bits about Donald Rumsfeld of course. Somehow I greatly doubt he felt any remorse or regret in his dying breaths for his monstrous crimes. Do psychopaths feel remorse? No.
And regards your love of coffee, I write this from one of the very best cities in the world for coffee, Melbourne, and have just made a fresh plunger of Ethiopian yirgacheffe, and so my small cabin is now enveloped in the aroma of freshly made coffee.
And as most are also aware, Melbourne has also been home to some of the harshest lockdowns and covid measures in the world. Mandatory facemasks are still in place inside shops and on public transport.
Melbourne, where most people are in a hypnotic trance regards the supposed pandemic (according to the ‘media’) and literally nothing you say can snap them out of it.
I even had a customer come up to me today and one of the first things they said was they had had a negative test. Perhaps they said it to reassure me they were safe?

JohnEss
JohnEss
Jul 12, 2021 2:05 PM
Reply to  Gezzah Potts

one of the first things they said was they had had a negative test. Perhaps they said it to reassure me they were safe?”

No, Gezzah. I believe they were referring to their IQ score.

Gezzah Potts
Gezzah Potts
Jul 12, 2021 2:15 PM
Reply to  JohnEss

She was wearing a mask outside and was 6 feet from me when she said it, so I should be grateful she was thinking about my safety at the time… 🙃😜
Some days I wouldn’t mind a job cleaning toilets just so I don’t have to hear this crap literally every day.
No pun intended.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 10:50 AM

How odd… when I search Tara McGowan Indonesia… other than the Covid-scare piece where she tells Aussies they need to get vaccinated…. I get a complete blank.

I am wondering if Tara McGowan is a fictional character….

JohnEss
JohnEss
Jul 12, 2021 2:24 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

She’s probably Mark McGowan’s wife/daughter/sister/niece/cousin, mate.

But if it’s on the ABC, then it’s definitely fiction.

Like the pommie BBC, the ABC should be dismantled and sent for scrap.

They are a disgrace to this country.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 13, 2021 12:35 AM
Reply to  JohnEss

Could be Rose McGowan’s sister?

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 10:46 AM

Best Photo of the Day – PR Team Operation Covid

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-10/indonesia-stuck-overseas-helpless-covid-australians-delta/100270898

We like this photo because it implies that hospitals are overwhelmed to the point where people are being buried alive… this is a superb example of using a visual to instil fear.

“They’re removing dead bodies in trucks now because there are just so many, and they don’t have enough ambulances,” Ms McGowan said.

“They’re piling people in, it’s pretty gross.”

Hospitals are already beyond capacity and oxygen supplies are running out.

Reality Check – we operate a small charity school in central Java … and the teacher indicates that a few very old people have died from Covid recently … but there is no crisis… no ‘bodies piling up’

JohnEss
JohnEss
Jul 12, 2021 2:31 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Great post, thank you. Good to hear the truth from someone on the ground.

“If Australians could see what is happening in Indonesia, [they] would be lining up to go get a vaccination, like ASAP,” she said.”

Have you noticed that we never get to see what she suggests we should see?

The only “frontline” images and videos I have seen during this whole shitfuckery have been such blatant fakes, only someone wearing a mask would believe they were real…

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 13, 2021 12:34 AM
Reply to  JohnEss

Remember the photos of the field hospital in Central Park NYC?

A medic working there claimed it was like a war zone — similar to when he was in Iraq… overwhelming….

All the photos were of empty beds and people standing around….

Then there was the military ship hospital… sitting in the harbour as a reminder of the horror… but empty… waiting in anticipation… always waiting … then it left…

And of course there is the Javits Centre… a stadium repurposed with hundreds of beds for the deluge of covid patients …

And how many were spent on Nightingale hospitals in the UK?

And still … the cattle do not sense the wolves…

See how easy it is to control the cattle? You can even show them that there are wolves about to enter the enclosure … but if the MSM tells them there are no wolves…they just continue grazing.

Peter Abraham
Peter Abraham
Jul 12, 2021 10:44 AM

I have kicked the coffee habit. Think of the environmental damage coffee plantations cause, the huge numbers of plant and animal species exterminated.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 12:10 PM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

You’re kidding right?

Have you stopped eating too? Cuz farms cause enormous environmental damage…

JohnEss
JohnEss
Jul 12, 2021 2:32 PM
Reply to  Peter Abraham

Mate, you should get back on it. Your brain needs the oxygen…

Peter
Peter
Jul 12, 2021 11:32 PM
Reply to  JohnEss

Not much concern for the environment. Your muzzle restricts your oxygen flow.

Harry Rogers
Harry Rogers
Jul 12, 2021 8:50 AM

 What an entirely predictable race human beings are.

Edwin Curtin says….USA ..Bad Rest of the World …Good.

Donald Rumsfeld says USA…Good….Rest of the World Bad.

Xi jingping says China…Good…Rest of the World bad.

Add your own simple minded persons to the lists of hundreds and all their millions of sycophantic followers.

Louis Celine serving in the First World War was totally correct about the human race. They just repeat and repeat the inanity of their actions. He couldn’t believe that he was the only sane one among millions who didn’t want to murder anyone.

Never ever discuss the complexity of situations just keep feeding the usual chaff to Mr and Mrs Stupid and watch them get ready to hang the nearest objector.

THEM BAD boss! US GOOD boss! Get’s them every time.

Oh and how quickly it turns when THEM now GOOD boss…US now BAD boss required to confess to chameleons of the crowd.

Never ends. Beam me up again Scotty!

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 1:04 PM
Reply to  Harry Rogers

I believe you mis-characterize Mr Curtin’s position. I believe he evaluates actions people cause, not groupings of people.

On the larger note, however, I can only wish I had your optimistic view of humanity – because what you say, as far as I’m concerned, is much too kind.

Moonsphere
Moonsphere
Jul 12, 2021 7:48 AM

Each of us will go through a period of post death purification, where we expand into a “place” called Kamaloka in the East, Purgatory in the West. A part of this is simply a function of the loss of the physical body. Pleasures that we once enjoyed – such as good food no longer have an instrument to satisfy them. It takes time to let these desires fade. We shall also experience our effect for good or ill on the world. This provides us with a true picture of our worth.

Whilst we live on Earth, it seems that the sun shines on both the evil and the good alike. The physical body is like a life jacket, but after death we find our true point of buoyancy. Our lower self, some call it the “Double” contracts into the subterranean realms.

For the great evil-doers of world history this will mean a plunge far beyond the mineral crust, deep into the magmas and the layers of evil karma laid down since the Earth was formed. This must lead to unimaginable suffering.

Dawden
Dawden
Jul 18, 2021 7:57 PM
Reply to  Moonsphere

Yeah, so why was the Holy Bible inspired and preserved? So that we could all read a book filled with lies. Right. I’m going to put my faith in a Creator who cannot lie and revealed His love for us by dying on the cross for our sins. Then rose again to prove death cannot lay claim to righteousness. We are now made righteous by trusting in that operation of God.
And that same book gives a completely contrary revelation of what you just wrote above.
Let God be true and every man a liar…..Romans 3:4, AV1611 King James

Peter
Peter
Jul 12, 2021 7:47 AM

Kill Gates

The anger against Kill Gates has evaporated over time. Remember him saying normalcy only returns when all 7 billion are “vaccinated”. What evil. David Icke called it arrogance. Fast forward to the present and a large percentage have actually been coerced into accepting the poison. But no sign of normalcy.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 10:23 AM
Reply to  Peter

Gates talks through Fauci, Bezos, Anal-Schwab et al. His arrogant excursion into the spotlight resulted in his divorce … my guess is that he is hiding under a rock somewhere planning how to get his own back on all the normal people who hate him and think he’s a pedo.

Paul
Paul
Jul 14, 2021 11:49 PM
Reply to  aspnaz

Having Gates promote the fake vaccine was causing vaccine hesitancy.

He has been moved out of the limelight for the time being.

The focus now is on the fake data they have literally pulled out of nowhere about how many lives it has supposed to have saved.

Tike
Tike
Jul 12, 2021 6:45 AM

When I hear the name Rumsfeld, I think of aspartame first, then 9/11 and Iraq and all the neocon shenanigans and war crimes he was involved in.

How Donald Rumsfeld Got Toxic Aspartame Approved
https://newspunch.com/how-donald-rumsfeld-got-toxic-aspartame-approved/

Most people have heard of aspartame the toxic chemical sweetener which is now used in thousands of food products, drinks and medicines worldwide.

It just so happens that it is also one of the most dangerous food additives today.

Were you aware that Aspartame was banned by the FDA twice? So how is this product legal now?

Aspartame, the technical name for NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, Equal-Measure and AminoSweet, was originally discovered by accident in 1965 by chemist James Schlatter who was testing an anti-ulcer drug at the G.D. Searle Company.

In 1985, Monsanto purchased G.D. Searle. Rumsfeld is believed to have earned around US$12 million from that sale.

Monsanto was untroubled by the report of a 1980 FDA Board of Inquiry, comprised of three independent scientists, which confirmed that aspartame “might induce brain tumors.” The FDA had previously banned aspartame based on this finding, only to have the then-Searle Chairman Donald Rumsfeld vow to “call in his markers,” to get it approved.

. . . Era of Wisdom reports:

Did you know that Aspartame literally turns into formaldehyde and methanol inside your body?

It breaks down into, according to one paper, “phenylalanine (50%), aspartic acid (40%) and methanol (10%) during metabolism in the body. The excess of phenylalanine blocks the transport of important amino acids to the brain contributing to reduced levels of dopamine and serotonin.”

Well put by another paper: “Aspartame is a widely used artificial sweetener that has been linked to pediatric and adolescent migraines. Upon ingestion, aspartame is broken, converted, and oxidized into formaldehyde in various tissues.”

Hele
Hele
Jul 12, 2021 6:01 PM
Reply to  Tike

This is why you know it’s all a crock.Plus the language is war-speak.
“Marlboro owner takes next step in plan to become ‘healthcare and wellness company’https://www.irishtimes.com/business/markets/tobacco-maker-philip-morris-strikes-deal-to-buy-uk-inhaler-group-vectura-1.4615999

Penelope
Penelope
Jul 12, 2021 10:24 PM
Reply to  Tike

Tike, a guy I cautioned about those little pink envelopes he kept putting in his coffee developed a sort of semi-manic state, wouldn’t believe Nutrasweet could be a problem.
He developed an extreme form of insomnia, doctors had him on all sorts of drugs to try to get him to sleep. By the time I saw him again I’m not sure he could even remember not to take Nutrasweet again; he had hallucinations from lack of sleep. A mere wraith of his former self. The docs were clueless, of course.

PS I think I read that they put formaldehyde in some vaccines, too.

mgeo
mgeo
Jul 13, 2021 8:22 AM
Reply to  Penelope

The large intestine is a major source of essential compunds including neuro-chemicals. Like many medicines, synthetic sweeteners – included in some manufactured foods – kill the symbiotic microbes there. So, your friend’s condition is not surprising.

Rada
Rada
Jul 12, 2021 6:43 AM

Wonderful meditative musings, for which I thank you, with my coffee at sunrise. They resonate deeply within me and evoke joy, peace and gratitude. It is also my habit to sit every morning for a couple of hours with the mind just open for whatever comes. 2 mugs of coffee, bliss.

goldhoarder
goldhoarder
Jul 12, 2021 6:27 AM

Psycopaths don’t think like that. It is the joy of power, control, and domination. That is their “gold”

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 6:13 AM

STORY AT-A-GLANCE

In an audio recording, a Moderna representative admits that everyone who gets a COVID injection is a participant in the trial. He also admits long-term protective efficacy against COVID-19 is unknown

Animal research shows the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein subunit directly damages the heart and causes myocarditis by triggering an exaggerated immune response — a cytokine storm — in the heart cells

The S1 subunit of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein activates NF-kB, a protein that controls not only the transcription of DNA but also cellular survival and cytokine production
This disease process does not involve the ACE2 receptor but rather the toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4), which is responsible for the detection of pathogens and the initiation of innate immune responses

A new and strange pattern is emerging: Many who suffer serious side effects from the COVID shots have normal lab workups, which makes diagnosing and treatment difficult

Let’s have a listen ….

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/07/12/moderna-vaccine-experiment.aspx

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 12, 2021 5:13 AM

Some further thoughts inspired by Mr. Curtin’s meditative article:

It may be of little comfort to most of us, but from what I have seen in the serious teachings about reincarnation, the interval between two different lives is generally supposed to be a very long one – at least in earthly time.
The purpose of this interval is apparently intended to provide an opportunity to prepare for further evolution, but this is only possible by coming to terms with what happened in the previous life.
This ‘coming to terms’ is the crux of the matter, because there is no longer the possibility of shirking responsibility and hiding behind lies and self-deception.
Coming to terms with things done wrongly in a previous life involves more than an intellectual recognition along the lines of, “Well, I suppose I could have done this or that more justly or considerately”…

Karma seems to involve something more like the well-known Purgatory of the Catholic faith, only in an extremely precise way: The idea is that during this interval one experiences the suffering and pain one has caused others as if it were happening to oneself, and there is no escape. How could there be? Only truth and reality are concerned in this matter.
This very hard lesson – the hardest imaginable – is where we find the strength to make good the flaw in our human character which led us to succumb to evil in the past, strength which will instil in us an irresistibly strong impulse to align our next life with an environment which will give us the opportunity to repay the debt in some way – if not exactly in kind. This must inevitably involve a very long process.

And so in the case of our Donald here… I think we can take it as read that he is up for a very rough time.
That thought reminds me of the frightful experiences involving ghosts which some of Shakespeare’s characters had to endure. Only the point in those cases seemed to be to terrify the bad guys, rather than to teach them how to mend their ways.
I don’t expect Shakespeare knew a great deal about karma, but it also strikes me as conceivable that he did, nevertheless, deliberately hint at it in such scenes.

I must admit I see clear possibilities for logical redemption and justice in the concept, but just think of the number of extra lives, along with appalling experiences in them, which would be necessary to repay to any significant extent the suffering of all the individuals harmed by the Rumsfelds, Rices, Clintons, Reagans, Obamas, Wolfowitzes, Cheneys and Allbrights of America, not to mention the leaders of many other countries, past and present…
One can only imagine that time in Hell doesn’t work in the same way as it does up here…

At any rate, as I have mentioned before, I don’t think any of us here who loathe what Rumsfeld stood for will be able to find satisfaction in his coming tribulations, since we won’t be there to witness them. And even if the notion of karma does make sense to us, of course we have our work cut out in taking care of our own spiritual fate.

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 1:20 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Karma seems to involve something more like the well-known Purgatory of the Catholic faith, only in an extremely precise way: The idea is that during this interval one experiences the suffering and pain one has caused others as if it were happening to oneself, and there is no escape. How could there be? Only truth and reality are concerned in this matter.

There are those – I definitely wouldn’t include the Rumsfelds of the world in that list – who experience any and everything they may have even unintentionally visited upon others in the here and now. I would almost say that emphatic quality is precisely what separates good from evil.

I believe artists exhibit this quality perhaps more than anyone else. Which may help explain why those given over to evil seem to loathe artists more than anyone else.

(As to Karma, I just experienced a little of it. While typing this reply I was finishing a bowl of oatmeal. I cannot imagine what terrible thing I did to have oatmeal visited upon me every morning.)

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 12, 2021 4:13 PM
Reply to  Howard

You are quite right to mention those sympathetic and artistic people too.
I hope I didn’t give the impression of thinking that life is all a question of doing horrible things and then just waiting for a future life to make amends…

From what I understand, this ability to experience life as if in the shoes of other people would naturally shorten the number of lives necessary to pay one’s karmic debts.

But, as you imply, we shouldn’t be flattering Rumsfeld with the notion of his being a normal human guy just paying his dues. If he wasn’t born a monster, he certainly became one.

Howard
Howard
Jul 13, 2021 3:37 AM
Reply to  wardropper

I remember reading years – probably decades – ago in an astrology book (I think by Linda Goodman) that, in terms of Karma, those who are mean and insensitive to others are, as she put it, “new kids on the block,” just beginning their trek through existence.

It doesn’t absolve their deeds; but it does help explain their motivation.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 13, 2021 6:31 PM
Reply to  Howard

That does indeed make sense.
As I understand it, there are endless possibilities and examples, and every case is unique. The general idea of karma seems to have plenty of exceptions, and it also seems natural enough to me that every new-born baby will have had either more or less previous karmic experience than the baby in the next crib.

The results of that would undoubtedly come to light in due course, and it would certainly explain why it is sometimes quite impossible for some people to talk together. They are simply not in the same place. Neither better, nor worse people, just at completely different stages of spiritual development.

It is also apparently possible to take backward steps in this evolution, which will hinder development and necessitate a longer period of adjustment, possibly with many physical impediments as a result of the harm previously done to the soul/spirit – all of which takes its due time to be worked through and balanced.

But it’s hard to discuss this matter without feeling that one is somehow off-topic, despite the meditative nature of the above article.

banjocat
banjocat
Jul 12, 2021 9:26 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Curious… I had a strange series of dreams/visions after my father died. It changed my whole view of death. I have written it down here. You’re a stranger, I’m a stranger… but could you give it a read and tell me what you think? Everything you said above rings true to me…

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 13, 2021 3:03 AM
Reply to  banjocat

I would love to talk with you at great length about your moving and beautiful thoughts on that experience, but the topic is really a subject for at least a whole lifetime, so I’ll keep this short.

It’s very rarely that one comes across someone who knows of anthroposophy (I followed the link you provided), and I know myself how much I owe to one of the great piano teachers with whom I had the privilege of studying, particularly due to the fact that he gently and naturally introduced me to its teachings, along with other recommended reading, when I was only eighteen. I have never looked back since.

Now, many decades later, I still feel like a student when I read one of the 5,000 (?) lectures (many of them downloadable in English from the link below) which Rudolf Steiner gave on every subject under the sun.

It seems to me that your open and warm heart has led you in a similar direction, so you might also enjoy finding material there for your own search for perspective and meaning in life. The lectures go into everything in great depth, but Steiner’s use of language is very approachable – and deliberately so.
I’ve noticed he repeats himself a great deal, but with slightly different wording, and I get the feeling that this is also deliberately done to assist the listener/reader with the task of remembering the important points.

Best of luck to you. I wish you lived next door so we could talk more about this, but the world of actual experience is ultimately more important than talking… 🙂

https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/

banjocat
banjocat
Jul 14, 2021 3:35 AM
Reply to  wardropper

Thank you so much for the kind words and encouragement. I am a late comer to Steiner but I recognized the Truth of his message immediately… I am someone that at the age of eight was kicked out of Sunday school for asking difficult questions. In a shallow world that only looks at its reflection in the water – it’s rare to find those that want to dive in and find their God Particle within. Do take care and be well!

Harry Rogers
Harry Rogers
Jul 12, 2021 4:49 AM

Hey Edwin best you don’t watch this its from European Television.

https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078193-000-F/the-new-world-of-xi-jinping/

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 8:52 AM
Reply to  Harry Rogers

Thanks for this … as we can see Xi is a very nasty fellow… I lived in China .. it truly is an Orwellian state… and the Chinese have been turned into zombies because the only information they can access is what the CCP approves… you cannot even open Youtube to have a look at dancing cats.

Hands up those would like someone like Trudeau .. or Ardern… or Amy Goodman… as our dog in the ring with Xi (or Putin).

Gosh Trudeau would surely break out in tears… and Ardern would display her pouty face (Blue Pout?) … Amy would beg for mercy.

I’m thinking I prefer a son of a bitch… someone like Rumsfeld or Cheney… someone willing to do whatever it takes… to ensure our side wins.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Jul 12, 2021 12:09 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Got mit Uns!

Victor G.
Victor G.
Jul 12, 2021 12:11 PM
Reply to  Victor G.

Gott

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 12:59 PM
Reply to  Victor G.

You pissed?

Harry Rogers
Harry Rogers
Jul 13, 2021 12:14 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Ni Hao,Fast Eddy

Thankfully they disliked your post . It would be disappointing to think that all Xi jingping sycophants and trolls aren’t hard at work bowing down to his altar.

Hope fully you get more dislikes to prove this world stupidity.Also hopefully Xi gives them a job in the concentration camps

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 1:05 PM
Reply to  Harry Rogers

Stupidity in the west is in abundant supply, it will be a great harvest. I have suffered the stupidity of westerners who think that Marxism proved its worth in China. But every society needs dunces, so they serve a purpose.

mgeo
mgeo
Jul 13, 2021 8:30 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

China, the supposed workers’ paradise:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56562.htm

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 12:56 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

It takes all sorts to make a world and although I think Rumsfeld was a thug, he had his uses in fighting off the thugs from other nations.

But that was in the days before the USA government and billionaires turned on their own people.

When the guard dog attacks the owner, it’s time to get rid of the dog.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 12:58 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

My full reply is being moderated, but totally agree.

Penelope
Penelope
Jul 13, 2021 5:05 AM
Reply to  Harry Rogers

Fascinating, Harry. Thank you.

Wraith
Wraith
Jul 12, 2021 4:45 AM

Off topic – has anyone else seen this about bird deaths across the US?

https://youtu.be/NbAlfa3-6AI

https://www.dw.com/en/birds-are-dying-in-the-united-states-and-no-one-knows-why/a-58163063

Allegedly birds are dying across America and nobody knows why, another psychological operation or something else?

Cyndee J
Cyndee J
Jul 12, 2021 6:32 AM
Reply to  Wraith

Fortunately the birds in my area of northern Illinois seem fine! My family is currently transfixed by a bird nest of Eastern Phoebes atop a column on our front porch.

There are six greedy baby birds that keep both parents busy flying feeding sorties. The adults are quite small only about five inches long dark with a white breast and a wingspan of nine inches (or so say the experts.)

We sit in our dining room and watch them through the window. Their aerodynamics put man’s flying machines to shame as the parents swoop in gracefully to feed one baby, then speed off and soon return with food for another. They always work from left to right making sure to fill each gaping beak, then they repeat the process. It’s a full time job feeding youngins.

The babies grow daily and are so big their nest can barely contain them. They flutter their wings busily in preparation for their first flight.

I’m sure they will be off soon, we pray for their safety and will miss them.

JohnEss
JohnEss
Jul 12, 2021 2:40 PM
Reply to  Cyndee J

I just researched the Eastern Phoebe and it’s a lovely little fella! Enjoy them whilst they are with you. A breath of the “old normal” is so good for one…

rob2
rob2
Jul 12, 2021 4:28 PM
Reply to  Cyndee J

“They always work from left to right making sure to fill each gaping beak, then they repeat the process.”

Fascinating! I always wondered how nestlings got their fair share. Given the wisdom of nature, this makes sense!

We’ve also got phoebes, as well as other flycatchers like the vermillion and scissor-tails. I make homemade bird cakes during the winter and the phoebes love them!

Cyndee J
Cyndee J
Jul 13, 2021 4:10 AM
Reply to  rob2

Thank you for sharing that!

Peter
Peter
Jul 12, 2021 11:28 PM
Reply to  Cyndee J

I have been a birder for 8 years. I have been fortunate to have seen about 600 species in many parts of the world. But populations are plummeting.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 1:08 PM
Reply to  Cyndee J

Nature will never be upstaged.

Penelope Powell
Penelope Powell
Jul 12, 2021 6:41 AM
Reply to  Wraith

We’ve been seeing it for a few years. I’m guessing it’s EMFs, especially 5G. Birds, especially migratory ones, have a special sensitivity to the earth’s magnetic field, etc.

I remember a story couple years ago about a test of 5G. In a nearby waterway geese were apparently in such pain that they submerged their heads to get some relief. They all drowned themselves.

Then there’s the regular cell phone towers; there’s more of ’em & maybe more powerful?

Tamara
Tamara
Jul 13, 2021 4:59 AM

Source?

Penelope
Penelope
Jul 13, 2021 5:22 AM
Reply to  Tamara

Tamara, there’ve been stories for the past few years about whole flocks of birds dropping from the skies. I didn’t make a note of any particular story. I think the geese drowning themselves in response to the 5G test was in London. They have NOT found any illness to explain the bird deaths, hence the speculation about EMF, 5G, etc– which I have repeated here.

goldhoarder
goldhoarder
Jul 12, 2021 12:08 PM
Reply to  Wraith

I haven’t seen any dead birds

JohnEss
JohnEss
Jul 12, 2021 2:36 PM
Reply to  Wraith

It’s the next pandemic……

rob2
rob2
Jul 12, 2021 4:32 PM
Reply to  Wraith

My husband told me about this report a couple weeks ago, and nope. I’m a bird nerd and haven’t noticed any dead birds. Now the devastating winter storm last February was a literal killer. Heartbreaking.

Ort
Ort
Jul 12, 2021 10:30 PM
Reply to  Wraith

I live in a suburb just outside Philadelphia, PA. Ican’t say for sure that it’s just another psyop, but I’m skeptical that birds are dropping like flies from a novel avian Phantom Menace. I admit that my experience of the Megadeath Virus of Doom scamdemic, a house of Big Lie cards, has hardened my skepticism or cynicism.

A week or two ago I got an e-mail from one of my bird food suppliers announcing this new malady. It cited official recommedations to take down bird feeders “for now” in order to prevent the possibility of the feeders becoming contaminated by infected birds, and in turn infecting subsequent visitors. It’s worth noting that it’s unlikely the supplier is promoting a bird scamdemic, since customers taking down feeders is bad for business.

I haven’t seen any sick-looking birds flopping around in my little back yard, which I call the Peaceable Kingdom. And so far the news media haven’t hyped this story, although the local newspaper’s website published stories about the alleged disease.

Anyone who has bird feeders is probably aware that a cardinal rule– sorry, couldn’t resist– is that, all things being equal, responsible birdfeeding requires a commitment. Since birds come to rely on feeders for a food source, it’s bad etiquette to only fill them haphazardly, or to whimsically take them down and put them up. 

I dread the thought of the same Normals who uncritically bought into the MVD scamdemic obligingly taking down feeders in accordance with official Germ Theory practices. I intend to keep mine up, and trust in Flock Immunity. 😉

rob2
rob2
Jul 13, 2021 2:52 AM
Reply to  Ort

Peaceable Kingdom…good one! I guess you don’t have hummingbirds, then? 😉

Howard
Howard
Jul 13, 2021 3:47 AM
Reply to  Ort

They will go to great lengths to avoid mentioning anything relating to climate engineering – particularly the spraying of aluminum nano-particles, which, along with emf (as another commenter noted) has a horrendous effect on the birds and the bees.

Like you (and I live in a suburb of Baltimore), I can’t say I’ve noticed anything strange about the birds around here. But oh man have I noticed a change in the bees. I’ve seen maybe five so far this season – after gradually descending from a peak of perhaps hundreds feeding on the flowering plants a few years ago.

Bird feeders around here are discouraged – because the squirrels chase the birds away and get all the feed, spilling half of it, which then draws mice. Never a dull moment in the burbs!

Penelope
Penelope
Jul 13, 2021 5:30 AM
Reply to  Howard

Howard, I’m in Central Coast, CA and have not seen a single bee this year although I’m a gardener. Last year I saw fewer than a dozen– half had landed in the cat’s water & had to be rescued from drowning. The other half were wandering disoriented in the dust.

Best explanation I’ve seen of bee colony collapse is neonicotinoids.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/study-strengthens-link-between-neonicotinoids-and-collapse-of-honey-bee-colonies/

spartacus
spartacus
Jul 12, 2021 11:42 PM
Reply to  Wraith

Racing pigeons in the UK, 1000s never returned from a 170 mile race…19th of june.

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 1:06 PM
Reply to  Wraith

Weird but agree, blue jays are a beautiful bird, like my wife.

Peter
Peter
Jul 12, 2021 4:37 AM

There are bigger villains than this cunt. The Trotskyist neocons for instance – Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bolton and a few others. Oil was one objective. The interests of the dominant Middle Eastern state were another. Feith I recall was a dual citizen.

les online
les online
Jul 12, 2021 4:36 AM

Donald Rumsfeld was a driven man… driven by insecurity, driven by the search for security… Damaged, de-stabilised, when very young, by the socialising/civilisation process every newborn is subjected to…

Property arises from insecurity, the state arises out of insecurity… The Class Struggle is a struggle for security…Capitalism is the striving for security that creates insecurity…

The Anthem of My Generation (every generation): “I Want Security” (Thane Russell & 3. 1966).

aspnaz
aspnaz
Jul 13, 2021 1:17 PM
Reply to  les online

People are fascinating, most in the west chase all sorts of goals, available to them because of rich parents. Rumsfeld never needed to feed himself, his brain was free to chase other goals. His decision to choose corruption and subterfuge was mostly because he had that option, but also because he had no moral framework implanted in his brain by his parents.

But he defended the USA people, which is better than the current lot.

Steve
Steve
Jul 12, 2021 3:40 AM

Blessed be Edward Curtin.

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 3:25 AM

As always, a beautiful piece from Edward Curtin.

Ironically, whenever I saw Donald Rumsfeld on TV, I felt like I was watching a comedy skit. But I guess that just goes to show you: a butcher can also be a comedian.

Like those demented creatures who laugh watching their torture victims. Pain, suffering and death is their only “joy” in life. They don’t see what they do as evil; it’s just their way of having fun.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 12, 2021 2:09 PM
Reply to  Howard

When I had my epiphanous awakening to the massive propaganda campaign targeted to the anticipated disbelievers of the cockamamie terrorist story to keep us believing in real death and injury (the strategy was to arm disbelievers with a truth, controlled demolition, and a lie, real death and injury, resulting in a stalemate half-truth) the first thing to come to mind was Rumsfeld and Cheney’s smug and smiling faces.

Cyndee J
Cyndee J
Jul 13, 2021 4:11 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Kinda creepy to remember how avuncular rummy came across.

Harry Rogers
Harry Rogers
Jul 12, 2021 2:20 AM

Perhaps the next time it rains you could also give thought to a whole civilisation being murdered in Western China. Genocide they call it.

The more things change the more things stay the same.

Harry Rogers
Harry Rogers
Jul 13, 2021 12:15 AM
Reply to  Harry Rogers

Only 15 dislikes surely Xi’s followers can do more than that! Are they busy in the concentration camps.

Jeff Carmack
Jeff Carmack
Jul 12, 2021 2:13 AM

“initiated into a ritual that sustains them throughout life” – also adds explanatory power to the behavior of many on the automaton spectrum

Jeffrey Strahl
Jeffrey Strahl
Jul 12, 2021 2:09 AM

Within a couple of weeks after 911, Rumsfeld said he was happy to be living in a world of powerful weapons and powerful people willing to use these powerful weapons. That January, i composed a tune titled “Happiness is Powerful Weapons,” taking off from the first 3 chords of the Lennon-McCartney tune “Happiness is a Warm Gun.”

Thom 9
Thom 9
Jul 12, 2021 1:57 AM

Donald Rumsfeld the man that brought us Aspertame and Tamiflu. The man that arranged the sale of the chemical weapons of mass destruction to Sodam Insane in Iraq in the early 80’s.
The man that announced to the world on Sept 10, 2001 that the Pentacon was missing 2.3 trillion dollars and was a key player in PNAC and the war on (of) terror. And these are only just a few of his highlights in his illustrious career. He had no soul. Like a wraith in Tolkien novel he is forever dammed…
Stay in hell Donald Rumsfeld.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 12, 2021 5:23 AM
Reply to  Thom 9

I’ve often wondered what happened to the very worst of the worst in Hell…
Having no soul makes one a very useful tool to the devil of course.

The Kid
The Kid
Jul 12, 2021 1:45 AM

The saddest part of Rumsfeld’s passing is that it happened WAY too late. About 80 years too late. Let’s hope Kissinger’s demise is not far away and we can, at least, finally be done with these two murderous cretins.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 12, 2021 5:25 AM
Reply to  The Kid

My personal preference is for a not-so-cosy demise in these cases, but divine retribution isn’t supposed to be a side-show spectacle for the likes of ghouls like me…
I’ll just have to accept that, and keep my guard up so that I don’t end my days deserving the same retribution…
Where did these guys go so wrong?
Was it just childhood neglect? Such things can seriously damage a soul.
And damaged is what Rumsfeld certainly was. Makes your hair stand on end to think how little the suffering of others meant to him.

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 3:51 PM
Reply to  wardropper

Perhaps even more than any personal damage inflicted on Rumsfeld as a child, the problem lies with the society he was born into. Perhaps it’s the same everywhere, but in the US “getting ahead” “going for the gold” “being numero uno” has become the be all and end all.

A demented society will necessarily push the most demented people to the top.

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 13, 2021 1:17 AM
Reply to  Howard

Indeed it will.
And then there are the Rumsfelds who don’t even need any pushing…

SEF
SEF
Jul 14, 2021 7:23 PM
Reply to  Howard

I believe the entire structure of “civilized society” was created especially to ensure that the most ruthless and power-hungry psycopaths naturally made their way to the top of the hierarchical systems.

What we need to understand is that these systems can be different and we can create a much better society than anything we have been a part of or know about thus far. Just because it’s “always been this way” doesn’t mean we have to keep accepting and continuing the insanity of it. There are other ways, there are people that have developed good technologies and systems that can work toward the betterment of people and the planet without greed, terror, domination and destruction.

When people start being really honest and start taking full responsibility for themselves and their actions, I think we’ll start to see a shift in our society and reality. When we start to honor, value and care for ourselves we will not let sick individuals rule us. We will be sustained by our own empowerment within and won’t seek power over anyone or anything else. Don’t buy anyone telling you the laws of nature require humans to be ruthless a-holes.

That’s just like, my opinion, man.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 6:37 AM
Reply to  The Kid

Who would you have step into the breach – Amy Goodman?

gordan
gordan
Jul 12, 2021 1:44 AM

assad and putin full compliance

a few good men said no
meet the

dead presidents

anti covid terrorists that denied science and msm world wide fake fuckery show

In Burundi it was President Pierre Nkurunziza
In Tanzania, it was President John Magufuli

in haiti a young bloody President Jovenel Moïse

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 1:40 AM

Edward – once upon a time I used to subscribe to the International Herald Tribune (NYT). I was ‘liberal’ leaning… despised Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld … did not reflect much on the fact that regardless of which party was in power in America, war was a constant.

One thing lead to another and I emerged from the province of DelusiSTAN I was living in for many years…

Reading The Prince was one of the keys to unlocking the gates so I could escape DelusiSTAN.

I suspect this is what Rumsfeld thought as he lay dying…

He believed that he had done a good job ensuring that the American Empire remained intact.

He would have understood the nature of man — and that civilization is but a very thin veneer and underneath there is a rough beast. An animal. A predator capable of extreme violence.

This veneer is maintained by artificial means — laws – police – courts — and ultimately military force. And of course this fragile is also supported by fossil fuels – generally most humans have enough to eat – so they remain relatively docile….

Consider what a hungry human is capable of… put 10 dogs in a cage and give them 200kg of meat per week … then starve the for 3 days and give them 2kg of meat…. try the same with humans — allow them to order in as much free food as they want to their cage… then give them one piece of bread after 3 days without food.

Don would have understood that ‘Imagine’ is just a silly song. He would have a solid understanding of history and thus known that men have always been at each other’s throats… We have always competed for ‘more’ — never have we been sated.

I have read extensively on the collapse of the Ottoman Empire … I recall one passage in a book suggesting the other powers of the time understood that the empire was sick and dying … and they metaphorically described the situation as these other powers surrounding the empire and each positioning to tear off as much meat as possible from the dying beast.

Fast forward to a few years after reading this … I am in Africa … I’ve just seen an antelope give birth … and it is surrounded… jackals, two vultures and if I recall some wild dogs

The vultures watched — as did I — as the predators raced into try to snatch the baby…. the antelope would charge at one … then desperately race back to try to fend off another … ultimately she lost the battle and her offspring was snatched…

the mother was in obvious distress… but the predators did not show her any pity .. instead they tore the baby to pieces and consumed it.

More importantly none of the predators declined their share… because all organisms are competitive … if they fail to compete (for as much meat as they can get) … then they weaken… and they fall sick and die… or they become prey for stronger animals.

I was thinking as I watched this play out … of the Ottoman Empire…. it failed to get enough meat … it weakened … and the jackals set upon it…

There is no room for pity …. as a power you either fight for the meat … or you weaken and your competitors strengthen….

Don surely understood all of this … and I suspect he had a copy of The Prince on his bedside table as he lay dying….

Thus Don would not have thought to ask for forgiveness. I doubt he even believed in God.

He would have died with a clear conscience.

And he no doubt might have thought ‘thank the heavens that there are men like him willing to do what it takes to ensure America (and it’s vassal states) from being encircled by China and Russia … and destroyed’

Amy Goodman is representative of the Koombaya tambourine-thumping Give Peace a Chance crowd — who would – if given the reigns would file down the teeth of America to blunt stubs….

Don may have also been thinking ‘thank the heavens that Amy has not progressed beyond her silly tee vee show where she spews clueless banter demanding peace and democracy’

Don was without question a big fan of this

https://youtu.be/9FnO3igOkOk

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 12, 2021 5:35 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

I would just suggest that in order to die with a clear conscience, you need to have one.

Penelope Powell
Penelope Powell
Jul 12, 2021 6:49 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

The law, courts, etc aren’t “an artificial veneer.” It’s called civilization.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 8:03 AM

Do you see any law courts here?

https://www.quora.com/What-would-the-world-be-like-if-society-collapsed

Seems they get stripped off rather easily … when things go sideways…

And then we return to our natural state …

Civilization itself is the veneer ….

http://img.picturequotes.com/2/41/40006/civilization-a-thin-veneer-over-barbarianism-quote-1.jpg

Two books you might consider:

Heart of Darkness

King Leopold’s Ghost

These demonstrate how easily it’s stripped away…

I assume you have never been to a place where the veneer has been stripped… it’s quite a confronting experience for someone who’s idea of travel is a glass of wine in Tuscany….

But of course – men like Rumsfeld have so far ensured that the veneer has remained in the OECD countries… you should lay a wreath at his grave.

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 4:24 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Perhaps it’s the veneer that’s the culprit. And the essential human question: was civilization created to counter Mr Hobbes’ “life is nasty, brutish and short” – or to simply use it to enrich some at the expense of the rest?

The “civilized” storm troopers can wreak every bit as much carnage as the “uncivilized” hordes. With the difference that you have the right to fight back against the uncivilized hordes – but not against the civilized troopers.

Cyndee J
Cyndee J
Jul 13, 2021 4:13 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

King leopold’s ghost was one of the best most enlightening books I have ever read. And it reads like a fiction book for people such as myself who love info but struggle with poor writing.

Rhisiart Gwilym
Rhisiart Gwilym
Jul 12, 2021 7:01 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Er – that’s ‘reins’, Eddy.

George Mc
George Mc
Jul 12, 2021 7:50 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

men have always been at each other’s throats

The blasé statement of someone who doesn’t have to worry about the fall out.

Victor G.
Victor G.
Jul 12, 2021 12:24 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Diagnosis: mental confusion, senility(?).
Therapy: extended sojourn in the backwoods. Eight hours of meditation per diem until insight.
Prognosis: depends on the aspiration of the patient to Self-Knowledge.
Good Luck, Eddy!

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 4:08 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Though I don’t disagree with you in the overall thrust of your argument, I believe there is in play in human existence a very, very minor (let’s call it “chord”) which recognizes that Mr Hobbes’ “War of all against all” is a self defeating stratagem which must be opposed whenever and wherever possible.

I had seen something in a documentary many years ago which made me question the Western view of Indigenous peoples as primitive savages. A community (I don’t even like the spurious term “tribe”) in the Amazon rainforest would only kill and eat a monkey if they had no other means of sustenance. And, if they did, they would take that monkey’s offspring and raise it as one of their own – and it was taboo for anyone to harm it.

All of which makes me wonder if everything you say – and everything we know to be true – only applies to “civilized” societies, which have the means as well as the penchant for mayhem. Nature, after all, has endowed animals which serve a prey for predators with other skills – like greater speed and greater numbers – which help preserve the species.

Yes, nature could care less about individual creatures; it only cares about species. And, of course, only humans have developed the means to destroy every single species. A big big blunder on nature’s part – which nature seems to be trying to fix.

Maxwell
Maxwell
Jul 12, 2021 12:41 AM

I cut my teeth on virii scams in 2004 when the lame duck Avian voodoo flu couldn’t quite get off the ground to scare enough humans and motivate investors for any length of time.

But there was Donald Rumsfeld and Gilead and for any who did the research this was an obvious “tell” that not all was it seemed with the bogus bird flu.

Even with this poorly conjured scam my local liberal hypochondriacs were all screeching to the roof and claiming ‘end times’ were near if we didn’t all get with our pandemic preparations.

To organize the preparations a Saturday meeting in the local library was arranged. The place was packed to the gills and oddly numerous people had these huge plastic containers “with supplies” that they deemed we would all need to stock up on in order to survive the coming viral storm.

Being well armed myself with numerous articles and information on what the scam was really all about I loudly interrupted the entire show and went through several different pieces of information that I figured would at least raise a few eyebrows- but you know what happens when someone latches onto a cause. No amount of facts could put a dent in that level of brick-headedness.

Since I couldn’t crack through that wall of fear with facts I finally resorted to challenging anyone in the room to a bet of $10 giving them 100-1 odds that absolutely nothing would happen and that we could meet in the same place one year from now and they could collect their $1000 if I was wrong.

It was beautiful- complete stone silence. Not one taker. And it did seem to mute their enthusiasm for doom just a bit.

I stayed after the meeting and harangued a few of the zealots seeing if they would take the bet but still no takers.

Unfortunately I remember this all too well and while this particular Pharma scam came and went quickly the local fear mongers (who have the means to stock up on ready supplies) not only didn’t learn they have doubled down here in 2021 and this fraud appears to have some staying power and certainly many more hungry investors.

Have to say today I was feeling a bit hostile today wondering how it is that so many people have fallen for this obvious nonsense?

Denny KirkQ
Denny KirkQ
Jul 12, 2021 1:40 AM
Reply to  Maxwell

Someone told me today that I was “stupid” for not getting the vaccine. I tried to talk sense to this person but the more we talked the more convinced he was that I was completely wrong.

I have been going through alot of anger today from this conversation and the fact that he referred to me as “stupid”.

I kept my cool because we were in a public setting. I too am amazed at how little people know about the whole Plandemic and what dangers lie ahead for humanity.

Upon reflection, and I think that is what Edward Curtin is referring to, I am glad that I handled it the way that I did. He was very emotional and I tried to remain very logical and peaceful.

These experiences can tear us apart or we can get stronger from them. Reflection is needed in order for the stronger part to become the more dominant aspect of our lives.

Thank you Maxwell for your courage. Peace.

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 3:03 AM
Reply to  Denny KirkQ

I think the best response would be “Let’s meet a year from now and discuss this again.”

Edith
Edith
Jul 12, 2021 4:41 AM
Reply to  Howard

Yes more and more I am accepting what an Aussie lawyer has said…just don’t argue…be polite, smile and just keep doing ones own thing…remaining strong within seems to be important in getting though this game…the crazies seem to sense inner Centeredness and be more prepared to leave one be re all the crazy stuff going on with this game…

Victor G.
Victor G.
Jul 12, 2021 12:33 PM
Reply to  Edith

In agree but tend to lose it when my interlocutor cites NYT, WAPO, CNN, etc. as their sources. That tends to push me to the boiling point.
Luckily, I too am one of the stoopid ones …

wardropper
wardropper
Jul 12, 2021 5:36 AM
Reply to  Howard

Well said, Howard.
I just hope we have a year…

Penelope Powell
Penelope Powell
Jul 12, 2021 7:07 AM
Reply to  Denny KirkQ

Denny, I awoke very early when I was fresh out of high school, so I’ve always had a different frame of reference than many others. You must realize that they often consider themselves well-informed if they listen to two newscasts a day. There are perfectly rational, busy people who simply don’t spend much time online.

You can’t know something before you know it. But your calm & reasoned demeanor may later, upon reflection, begin to make a dent.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 12, 2021 3:07 PM
Reply to  Denny KirkQ

What I realise more and more is that people believe according to their inclination to believe, not the evidence, it simply doesn’t matter how much you rub it in their faces. It is staggering. It doesn’t matter which side of the conspiracy fence they’re on they will believe according to their inclination to believe.

I’ve just been arguing on the site, Piece of Mindful, for the reality of the moon landings. On POM virtually everyone is a moon hoaxer while on OffG – not sure maybe 50/50 so on POM I’m a heretic arguing for their reality.

The point I made very emphatically was that Bill Kaysing, the first person to say we didn’t go to the moon, was an agent which we can see is made very obvious in at least two ways:

— On Wikipedia (edited by intelligence agents and where we always find the clues), we’re told he had a nephew, Dietrich von Schmausen, who, when looked up, turns out to be – allegedly – a Professor of Xenobiology with a fake German accent who keeps an alien brain specimen on his desk. I did laugh even if the amusement was provided by those evil bastards.

— We’re told he was in charge of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne, the company that made the Saturn V rockets for the Apollo program, but in an interview he says that the lunar module would have created a massive crater, blasting sand and rocks everywhere. There’s no sand on the moon, the surface is called regolith and the lunar module would never have made a large crater. The person in charge of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne would never in a million years have said that.

What this indicates is how well the perps know how we think and do our research and how they target us accordingly.

They know that the Disbelievers by Default are not going to do the required research to detect immediately that Bill Kaysing cannot be who he says he is. You can just see them having a chortle. Do they make Bill at least a lowly orderly at Rocketdyne or something like that to give some credibility at least to the fact that he spouts nonsense. Nope. They really go for it and make him Head of Technical Publications. Nephew, Dietrich von Schmausen and Head of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne. They just have the most massive laugh and KNOW that no moon hoaxer is going to pick up that Bill is an agent but then nor is an Apollo enthusiast who wishes to debunk him – an Apollo enthusiast will simply let the very strange anomaly of someone in his alleged position spouting such nonsense slide, they certainly will not think he’s an agent.

But not only did I immediately realise that he was an agent when I looked him up, the very reason I looked him up in the first place was I anticipated that he would be an agent. When it occurred to me that most people are believers of the authorities by default with a small percentage being disbelievers of the authorities by default I hypothesised that the perps would encourage the Disbelievers by Default to not believe in the moon landings so that when they called out the real lies that we’re told on virtually a daily basis their credibility was already undermined by claiming the moon landings were fake … when the evidence clearly shows they were real and the majority of people on this occasion at least are correct in believing in them.

So what I was really trying to do on POM was show people how the perps CONTROL OUR MINDS. How they target us according to our inclination to believe so if our inclination is to disbelieve the authorities they will target us accordingly. I was trying to say that we cannot afford to have an inclination to believe we must always look carefully at the evidence.

The best advice on critical thinking I’ve ever encountered is from Kary Mullis:
the scientist aims to prove their hypothesis wrong.

When I heard that recently I thought, yep, that’s what I do. I actively seek out any contradiction of what I believe to ensure that what I believe is correct. Most people don’t do that, all they do is look for what confirms their belief … and that’s why we’re so easy to control because in the main we believe according to our inclination to believe and the perps understand that perfectly and target us accordingly.

There was no evidence suggesting that what I said had any effect on POM.

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 4:58 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

If I recall, you have consistently maintained that most of what passes for real events is a psyop. So do you believe the moon landing was also a psyop?

I have the “gift” of being a Johnny Come Lately to many conspiracies – except 911 and COVID. That way, most of the charlatans have fallen by the wayside (I’d never even heard of this Bill Kaysing).

The most – and only – compelling moon hoax idea is “American Moon” by Massimo Mazzucco. It’s about 3 hours long and debunks, one by one, the pictures and much of the evidence. However, it does occur to me that perhaps the pictures had to be staged because actual pictures might have been either impossible or ruined by the Van Allen Belt – so even that doesn’t automatically disprove the landing.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 13, 2021 7:27 AM
Reply to  Howard

No, Howard, I don’t believe the moon landings were a psyop. The evidence overwhelmingly shows that the moon landings were real and an absolutely astonishing achievement. It pains me both that a significant number of people don’t recognise that achievement and that the power elite have CONTAMINATED that achievement by pushing out agents (Bill’s not the only one, Dave McGowan is another with his Wagging the Moondoggie) and propaganda to encourage the Disbelievers by Default (DBDs) to not believe in them.

Yesterday, I mentioned that one reason is to undermine the credibility of the DBDs when they call out the lies we are told on a daily basis – “Don’t believe in the moon landings? You’re just a stupid conspiracy theorist.” Perhaps another reason is that although the DBDs are not, by definition, purely evidence-based thinkers they are generally I guess right about their calling out of lies – and on most things my beliefs coincide with theirs. I mean, we are lied to all the time so generally the DBDs will be right in calling out the lies. The power elite don’t want people to be right all the time about them, do they?, they want these people under their MIND CONTROL so it’s not just that they contaminated the moon landings in order to undermine the DBDs’ ability to get the truth out about the lies they tell us they want to control their minds just for the sake of it – just to be able to go ha! ha! you think you’re so clever in disbelieving everything we say but we’ve got you, we controlled your minds to not believe something that’s actually true. And then they have fun with their mind control by making Bill’s nephew, Dietrich von Schmausen and his job title Head of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne while having him say that the lunar module would have created a massive crater blasting sand and rocks everywhere. They’re right, of course, they’re very, very skilled at mind control because they KNOW they can push out absurd stuff that the DBDs will not bat an eyelid at because they’re looking through a biased lens, they’re not looking properly at the moon landings. Actually, some moon hoaxers recognise Dave McGowan as “limited hangout” but this is in relation to other topics. On the moon landings they think what he says is correct but it isn’t.

As I say above I try as much as I can to prove my hypothesis wrong. I watched American Moon but then I googled (must get off that search engine) “debunking American Moon” and found this (see below) – which thoroughly debunks it. I always follow the debunking trail to where it finishes as much as I can. What is very obvious is that Apollo enthusiasts know so very much more about the moon landings than those who don’t believe in them. It’s not like psyops where all you’ve got are people arguing for and against. Apollo enthusiasts I think generally don’t spend much time debunking the hoaxers. They have massive interest in the subject and they’re online to discuss Apollo and other space stuff, not to debunk moon hoaxers whom I think they regard as more of an irritation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/eqfeqs/debunking_american_moon/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/i1rkbp/debunking_american_moon_part_2/

Here’s Wagging the Moondoggie debunked (says Part 1 but cannot find a Part 2)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/hs6zji/debunking_wagging_the_moondoggie_part_1/

I highly recommend the fascinating Moon Machines series which I now can only find with Spanish subtitles (which are hardly a problem).
https://youtu.be/tmIhhVq0w_o?list=PLnwQbMliel6ymcjlTkXyi7myTIIYlgeLm

Of course, even though the evidence clearly shows the moon landings were real a bit of fakery isn’t necessarily out of place, however, I cannot say I’ve ever noticed any or seen any convincingly pointed out.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 13, 2021 8:15 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I don’t claim or believe the moon landings were fake, but even I can see those links don’t debunk anything. Nor do your random claims of some people being cointel – so what? Personal attacks don’t refute data.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 13, 2021 8:34 AM

Why do you say those links don’t debunk anything, Sophie? I just tested them over at POM and the passionate moon hoaxers over there certainly couldn’t come back with anything to refute them so I’m most curious to see how you don’t think they debunk anything.

And we certainly can tell that Bill Kaysing was an agent because a Head of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne would never talk about massive blast craters and sand and rock being blasted everywhere. And if, by the remotest chance they did, then they’d do it debunking style. They wouldn’t just make that assertion, they’d say “Well, they say that only the faintest of craters would be made and that’s what they show us, but, in fact, a large crater would have had to be made because of X, Y and Z.” A person who was head of Technical Publications would demonstrate his credibility in debunking the moon landings and there is absolutely none of that in what Bill Kaysing says.

How much moon landing research have you done, Sophie?

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 13, 2021 9:10 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I don’t investigate it, it’s not my thing. But here’s one question.

Why is NASA now saying it will have to figure out how to get through the Van Allen belts before they can ‘go back’ to the moon? They already sent people through the VABs many times in the 1960s, right? So they know how to do it already.

If they have to ‘figure it out’ now they would appear to be obliquely admitting they didn’t do it in the 1960’s and therefore didn’t go to the moon 🤷‍♀️

PS – that ‘debunk’ is just a guy setting up straw men and knocking them down so far as I can see. He doesn’t address a single one of the real questions I see people on here raise. But what do I know, it’s not my thing.

update – just read the ‘debunk’ of American Moon, which I have not watched. Wow. You really are easily persuaded by any old piece of tat that helps you keep your beliefs intact on this.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 13, 2021 9:30 AM

The debunk guy is debunking specific things, namely, the film, American Moon and the book, Wagging the Moon Doggie. No strawmen, very specific arguments relevant to those two artefacts and if you read his debunking carefully you’ll see how very knowledgeable the debunker is and how obvious from the detail of what he says that the evidence so clearly fits the “real” hypothesis. The evidence fits the hypothesis much too closely, so very like a glove, that it’s really quite impossible for the moon landings not to be real.

The issue of the VABs is addressed Sophie in that debunking but also when there’s a certain amount of evidence for something then it doesn’t really matter what’s raised, you can be sure there will be some explanation. There is simply too much evidence for the moon landings for something as trivial as the VABs to debunk them. The VABs don’t physically stop anyone going through space, do they? There might be concerns about them but they don’t physically stop anyone so if some guy from NASA says something about the VABs that seems anomalous you can be sure there will be an explanation and there is. It’s shown in the second point in the American Moon debunking so I’m not quite sure what problem you have with it. The implication in the explanation, of course, is that they weren’t so much worried about the VABs in the Apollo program because the instruments weren’t so sensitive to radiation but modern instruments are. Their concern now is the sensitive instruments not people.

2. If it were true, like the debunkers maintain, that “a lunar mission entails a total of radiation equivalent to an x-ray”, why does NASA describe today the Van Allen belts as “an area of dangerous radiation”?
The NASA engineer, Kelly Smith, who says the Van Allen belts are dangerous in the clip starting at 1:09:44 actually explains the reason. He says “radiation like this could harm the guidance systems, onboard computers or other electronics on Orion”. Smith does not say that the radiation is a danger to humans. NASA scientist David Sibeck gives more detail here, stating that “Our current technology is ever more susceptible to these accelerated particles because even a single hit from a particle can upset our ever smaller instruments and electronics.” It is the threat to sensitive electronics, not to people, which is the problem.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 13, 2021 10:39 AM

Wow! “easily persuaded by any old piece of tat”. Do you see though how because you don’t back your claim with content it is completely meaningless? Can you not see that?

You need to explain how the debunking is an old piece of tat. And if it is, I’d really wonder why the passionate moon hoaxers over at POM didn’t pick it up. They would have loved to demolish that debunking but they didn’t touch it. So you’re not a passionate moon hoaxer and yet you consider it a bit of tat. Please elucidate.

You never stop surprising me, Sophie. I put something forward that seems so obviously correct so obviously game, set and match and yet you come up with an objection which just strikes me as coming from left field, so completely unexpected, I just have no idea where it could possibly come from.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 13, 2021 4:49 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Oh come on P – how do they ‘debunk’ the VABs question? Misdirection and waffle. Oh, and a lie.

They claim the dosage was overstated. Ok, let’s assume that’s true without evidence. The revised dose is still enough to destroy equipment and damage a human body.

Debunk? Nope.

They claim the hull protected the astronauts, but give no data.Ok, so send the 21stC astronauts to the moon in a replica of the CM from 1969. Problem solved! So, what is NASA worried about?

Debunk? Nope.

They claim the current concerns about the VABs are to do with them potentially knocking out equipment. Well, ok, but again just put the equipment in a replica CM from 1969 and, according to their logic, it will be fine.

But anyhow, they’re lying. The NASA vid I saw specifically said they needed to figure out how to protect PEOPLE from the VABs.

Debunk? Nope

I love how you think you’re so rational and yet what you believe is entirely conditioned by your prior assumptions. You ‘prove’ something by basically eliminating all the evidence against it on the basis of some set of criteria you make up on the spot. You call that ‘being logical’. And when people don’t agree with your arbitrary assumptions you shake your head sorrowfully about how illogical everyone is 😅

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 3:33 AM

Misdirection and waffle?

They claim the hull protected the astronauts, but give no data.

Where’s the data that says it didn’t protect them, Sophie?

What you need to provide is the evidence that the VABs would have stopped astronauts going to the moon. Where is it?

If you don’t have it then it’s rather pointless arguing about the VABs. In my opinion, the radiation aspect is more in the realm of the abstract involving figures that people can easily argue over so, as far as I’m concerned, why even bother with the VABs. I’ve argued with people whose only angle is the radiation – either from VABs or the lunar radiation. When there is a wealth of evidence to look at you don’t make a case just from one angle because you might be mistaken. You don’t make a case against the moon landings based just on the radiation.

It seems, in fact, that lunar radiation DID cause health problems so it’s not that the radiation didn’t stop them going, it’s just that unfortunately it caused problems.
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep29901

Remember how you argued against death and injury being staged because they would have had to evacuate Lower Manhattan. However, you made the false assumption that didn’t happen. That’s why it’s always best to look at the EVIDENCE, Sophie, especially the TANGIBLE EVIDENCE.

So if we put aside the VABs – which you have zero evidence to say they couldn’t have been crossed – can you debunk the debunking?

To suggest that they might use the same equipment from the Apollo missions is just so ridiculous I simply have no words.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 4:29 AM

What I truly wonder about, Sophie, is what your approach is to determine whether claims made are true or not. I wonder how you balance things in your mind, how you rationalise “for” and “against”. I really have no clue.

My approach is pretty straightforward.

I only had any interest in the moon landings after I woke up to 9/11 and my initial inclination was to believe they didn’t happen because they seemed so implausible. 384,000 km away and we’d only gone 400 km in the 50 years since?

The first thing I did was read Wagging the Moondoggie which I found very persuasive (but have since discovered was written by intelligence agent, Dave McGowan, whose purpose was to mislead all those highly-disinclined to believe government to undermine them when they called out the real lies). But then I thought, that, of course, I needed to look at the evidence myself so I listened to audio of conversation between the astronauts and mission control and immediately I thought, “No way could they fake this or even try to. The disjointedness of the dialogue just doesn’t fit scripting at all and it’s just so boring … if you weren’t there at the time so to speak. Test pilots aren’t going to sit in a studio for hours and hours doing this kind of nonsense.”

Moon hoaxers (and even non-moon hoaxers) disagree that the audio couldn’t be faked but the point is I place no value my opinion on the matter – I know that doesn’t count. It’s much better not to use your opinion to try to persuade people of the facts, much better to use facts themselves – not that anything at all, I mean anything at all will work when people are set on believing what they want to believe – and perhaps, in fact, opinion might work better than fact or at least other approaches, not simple facts – and we know that’s the case because propaganda works an absolute treat and while fact may play a very important role in some propaganda often it doesn’t at all and when it does play a role it’s only to mislead anyway.

These are the facts:
— No one has identified any signs of fakery in the audio
— They did hours and hours and hours of it, all the time exposing themselves to greater chance of IDing fakery.

Occam’s Razor favours audio genuine.

Then I looked at how everything we’re shown perfectly matches the unique lunar conditions.
— low gravity
— no atmosphere
— in lunar daytime we see a brightly lit lunar surface with black sky

The swathes of evenly and brightly lit moonscape we see against a black sky so perfectly fit the moon. How do you fake swathes of brightly and evenly lit land on earth in either night-time or daytime?

You know what moonhoaxers respond every single time when I say that everything we see perfectly fits the lunar conditions. Every.single.time.

“But we don’t know what the conditions on the moon are.”

But if you want to use that argument what you have to do is look up WHY it is said the conditions are what they are and why scientists don’t have the knowledge to make those claims.

So, Sophie, it seems you don’t have a definite opinion about the reality of the moon landings. I wonder what it would take for you to decide. Just say you wanted to determine whether they were fake or not, what would your approach be? Do you have any criticism of my approach?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 4:34 AM

Just to add: in relation to the brightly-lit moon surface. When I went to see First Man I predicted that the brightness of the surface of the faked moon we are shown wouldn’t have the degree of intensity of the real moon we see in the footage of the Apollo landings.

I believe my prediction was correct … but just a matter of opinion, of course.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 5:24 AM

Sorry, I tend to react a little too quickly to your comments without looking at them thoroughly.

But anyhow, they’re lying. The NASA vid I saw specifically said they needed to figure out how to protect PEOPLE from the VABs.

But no one’s saying that people don’t need to be protected.from the VABs … and they never did. What they said before was that they were sufficiently protected. Perhaps now – as indicated by the seeming ill-effects of the lunar radiation – they’re saying that the protection wasn’t quite sufficient.

You need to be very careful in your claims, Sophie. The debunker is referring to a particular video and what he says in reference to that video is correct. Perhaps he is unaware of the video you refer to but to make the claim that he’s lying when his approach is simply to debunk what is put forward in American Moon is inappropriate.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 5:51 AM

You must watch… it’s superb….

They even have 5 of the top photographers on the planet analyse the photos and conclude 100% that they are studio work.

https://youtu.be/bdQHKf48Mfw?t=1921

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 3:29 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

The professional photographers know nothing about the moon and the photos were cherry-picked. From Debunking Part 2

Any evidence can seem compelling in the absence of the correct context. The question of light falloff in the Apollo photography is a very good example. The makers of American Moon present some photographs which appear to show falloff. But if it was genuine falloff, it should appear not just in a few photographs – it should appear in all the photographs from the lunar surface. But if you go and actually look at the Apollo pictures, you’ll find thousands – literally thousands – showing large areas of ground with no falloff whatsoever. The pictures in American Moon are cherry-picked. They’re pictures where the slope of the ground has caused shadowed areas. The documentary makers make sure to ignore the thousands of other pictures where this doesn’t happen.
Here’s a gallery I’ve made of pictures with no falloff. In my opinion, none of these pictures could have been done with studio lights, as the lighting is too even:

https://imgur.com/a/yl2ebk4

And then you have this 16mm footage of the astronauts driving over an area much too large to be evenly lit by artificial light:

American Moon even includes footage which disproves the falloff theory, when they show the lunar rover driving around. It’s driving over a large, evenly-lit area. But they make no mention of the fact.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 4:29 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Oh I see… so you want a photographer who has experience with taking photos on the moon.

Nobody has ever been to the moon so ….

And they cherry picked … hmmm… so you are saying that in some photos they did use a second source of light … (the cherry picked ones) and in the others they didn’t?

Light is light … on the moon and on the earth.

And when you take a picture of a person with the sun behind them … their face will not appear illuminated (cuz it’s in the shadow) unless you have a secondary source of light or you are using reflectors.

Check it out 🙂

http://www.studentartguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/photography-reflector.jpg

Now here’s one of the cherry picked photos… are you trying to say that light behaves differently on the moon … it lights up both from the back and the front?

What are you trying to say?

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ee4547978b99f598fd767155d8532b6f-c

Why don’t you watch?

You afraid that you’ll be proved wrong?

If you won’t watch then why are you wasting your time trying to argue this?

Why don’t you just stick your fingers in your ears and shout nah nah nah

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 4:37 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Here is James Van Allan stating in 1958 that the Earth is surrounded by intense bands of radiation that would kill humans if they tried to pass through them.

https://youtu.be/KpuKu3F0BvY?t=3594

Here’s a NASA engineer explaining how they are trying to build a space craft that can pass through the deadly Van Allan Belts.

https://youtu.be/bMfUpqnLFCc

Hmmm… why doesn’t NASA just reference all the engineering plans from the 60’s? Oh right – they were all thrown in the bin because they took up too much space. Hahahahahahahaha… and they erased all the video tapes and reused them ‘because they are so expensive’

And then of course there’s this:

“It is commonly believed that man will fly directly from the earth to the moon, but to do this, we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility. It would have to develop sufficient speed to penetrate the atmosphere and overcome the earth’s gravity and, having traveled all the way to the moon, it must still have enough fuel to land safely and make the return trip to earth. Furthermore, in order to give the expedition a margin of safety, we would not use one ship alone, but a minimum of three … each rocket ship would be taller than New York’s Empire State Building [almost ¼ mile high] and weigh about ten times the tonnage of the Queen Mary, or some 800,000 tons.”

—Wernher von Braun, the father of the Apollo space program, writing in Conquest of the Moon

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 5:59 AM

And then there is this

https://youtu.be/bMfUpqnLFCc

And this is good too

https://youtu.be/16MMZJlp_0Y

And last but not least here is Stanley Kubrick confessing to faking the moon landings… released many years after his death at his request

Sorry but not available on YT… can’t have people finding this can we 🙂

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Xel7cxch6vHH/

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 5:50 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Can I tempt you? Let’s try a short clip that was leaked to NASA that shows Buzz and Neil pretending to be in lunar orbit.

You can even hear the director telling them to ‘talk’

https://youtu.be/bdQHKf48Mfw?t=1921

If that makes you suspicious I highly recommend you watch the full documentary.

You can even see pieces of the lunar module taped on… and some panels that are falling off. Really!

Or do what most people do … and refuse to watch it

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 9:13 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Eddy, I would never not look at evidence. I endeavour as much as I’m humanly able to keep an open mind. I guess though I don’t really have an “open mind” exactly on the moon landings because I’ve simply seen too much to go back. Obviously, it’s just not going to work if someone says to you, “I’ve got evidence that terrorists brought down the twin towers”, right? You know they didn’t. I also know the moon landings were real in the same way, I’ve seen too much evidence to have any doubt … nevertheless I’ll have a look.

I had a look and I think that the snippets were too short with no context to have an opinion. You can’t necessarily take a tiny snippet with no context and say what it means.

With regard to the sunlight, what’s so strange about that? The sun is out there while they’re on their way to the moon, why wouldn’t they at some stage block it out?

The narrator’s voice is just awful.

Can you bookmark exactly where you see panels falling off the lunar module because I really cannot bear that woman’s voice. Also, no one is denying that the cover of the lunar module was held together with tape, that’s explained but panels falling off? That’s a new one.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 14, 2021 9:28 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I would never not look at evidence

🤣 – oh come on Petra, you are one of the most selective thinkers I know. You define your subjectivity as ‘logic’ and then congratulate yourself on how incredibly ‘logical’ all your choices are!

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 1:40 PM

… you are one of the most selective thinkers I know.

Please give an example, Sophie.

Sam - Admin2
Admin
Sam - Admin2
Jul 14, 2021 3:06 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

One example would be linking to a reddit ‘debunking’ of Mazzucco’s video (below), which is not scrupulous work, not in the least. It employs the same tricks ‘Fact Checkers’ use, eg. disputing the issue of Van Allen’s findings on radiation belts by simply stating he sent up many satellites and listing them. Van Allen actually later contradicted his 1962 statement when he said there was no error in his initial radiation findings. This is not a scrupulous debunking of anything.

There are some interesting unanswered questions and apparent contradictions in the moon landing official story, and if you were subjecting it to a level of skepticism and scrutiny consistent with your other views you would seek to have this discussion, rather than shut it down with very mediocre material (by your usual standards).

A2

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 2:50 AM
Reply to  Sam - Admin2

Well, I guess, Sophie, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think it is a scrupulous work. I have the utmost respect for the debunker and the level of detail and research he’s gone to astounds me. His answer to question 24 in Part 2 I find utterly astonishing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/i1rkbp/debunking_american_moon_part_2/

I accept unanswered questions, Sophie, when the evidence overwhelmingly supports an hypothesis. I’m not bothered by unanswered questions necessarily. The moon is the moon and the earth is the earth. It was an astonishing feat and those of us who know nothing about space and the moon, etc will expect to not be able to understand lots of things. Lots of things about the moon might seem anomalous looking through a terrestrial lens. So if someone poses a question to me about the moon landings that I can’t answer, what should I do? I’ll try to look it up but if I can’t find an answer I simply accept is as an anomaly. I’m prepared to discuss, Sophie, but if I don’t have an answer all I can do is accept as an anomaly.

In another comment, Sophie, you said that you took time out to make comments on my comments. Please don’t feel obliged to do that for my sake. I’m perfectly happy for you not to take time out. I spend far too much time arguing with people and I need to reduce it, it skews my opinion of people in general when I think I’m arguing the bleeding obvious backed by good evidence and they don’t agree. In our case it seems we come from two different planets and simply cannot argue things out to where either of us can edify the other’s thoughts. By all means go ahead and make comments on my comments for others or just to express your disagreement with me – I’ll certainly read your comments – but I think I’ll probably not respond most of the time because I think it will be a futile exercise and I definitely need to reduce time arguing with people.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 14, 2021 4:49 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Look over your entire output. Look at the scary gaps in your thinking, the a priori assumptions designed to disguise prejudice as ‘analysis’, the circular reasoning, the unfalsifiable hypotheses, the crazy idea you seem to have that using the word ‘logical’ equates with using logic.

You want the moon landings to be real so badly you grab any old garbage (from Reddit ffs) as ‘proof’.

Ditto climate change.

You bring zero critical thinking to either of these obvious elite mainstream narratives – because you want to believe them. You trust a bunch of proven liars selling a Bill Gates narrative, but at the same time you call the guys who discovered thermite in the WTC dust ‘shills’, even though they lost their livelihoods as a result of what they did.

Zero humility, zero logic, zero respect for data.

You’ve linked to the same photo of a 9/11 ‘jumper’ about 12 times, claiming it ‘looks fake’ and demanding people ‘prove’ it isn’t. And each time you get told that this is what human bodies can look like after intense impact, and you are directed to verify this by talking to first responders and EMTs. And each time you do nothing and don’t listen and then repeat the same BS again.

Because logic – real logic – has ZERO to do with your thinking. You have things you want to believe because they interest or excite you, and then you go find the ‘evidence’ you need to justify your belief, even if it means rooting through a stinky dumpster like Reddit. And when confronted with evidence that challenges or disproves your thinking, you just ignore it, or decide it’s ‘fake’ or grab the first lunatic theoriser you can find and use them as ‘proof’.

The truth P. It hurts, but it can set you free 😉

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 2:58 AM

Oh dear, Sophie, I so emphatically disagree … so yes we shall have to agree to disagree.

If you can explain how Bill Kaysing was the head of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne but said the lunar module would have created a huge crater and blasted sand and rocks everywhere I’d love to know it. I simply cannot think of another explanation other than he was a plant whose purpose was to mislead those who disbelieve everything from the authorities and undermine their ability to spread the truth on the real lies.

I always say that every single piece of evidence must support your hypothesis and that is definitely a rule I follow. A seeming anomaly in the case of the moon landings where there is overwhelming evidence that favours them being real doesn’t count. Neither you nor I nor any moon-hoaxer has sufficient understanding to say a seeming anomaly debunks the moon landings and I’ve seen quite a number of seeming anomalies explained.

Bill Kaysing though is perfectly terrestrial. He’s just a person with a job title saying certain things that are completely at odds with that job title. Please explain him, Sophie, according to the hypothesis we didn’t go.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 3:55 AM

Zero humility, zero logic, zero respect for data.

Zero humility I will accept up to a point, Sophie, not the other two of course – quite the opposite. I do think I’m quite expert on understanding psyops. Why shouldn’t I think that because I see things other people don’t see, Bill Kaysing being an obvious agent, for example. I predicted he was an agent and then recognised the psyop signs immediately. No one else has as far as I know. Should I have be all humble about the ability to recognise plants where seemingly no one else can?

What strikes me about you, Sophie, is that you don’t really have an understanding of psyops or psyop MO and you don’t know how to make facts mean what they must mean. You don’t build a knowledge base with all the little nuggets of gold that come your way, it’s like you look at things without a sense of their context and precedence. You base judgement on stupid things such as the source of the American Moon debunking being reddit. It’s not the source, Sophie, it’s the content and the content is very, very good – you simply cannot recognise it. You’re all caught up in falsifiablity as if it’s the be all and end all. They worked things out before falsifiability came along and there are many ways to work things out. When you understand psyop MO it makes it much easier. Understanding psyop MO is far more useful than bringing falsifiability into it when you’re actually analysing a psyop.

— When COVID hit you didn’t automatically recognise that it was a Trauma-based Mind Control Psychological Operation in the form of a “live” pandemic exercise. I did.

— When COVID hit you didn’t make your mind up on whether there was a virus or not for absolutely ages (not sure whether you finally have). I knew there would be no virus immediately because I knew from my understanding of 9/11 and other psyops that in psyops they only do for real what they want for real and they didn’t want a virus and it wouldn’t work for their narrative in any case, just as planes wouldn’t work for their narrative in 9/11 or killing people for real. Unsurprisingly, of course, the scientific fraud of the supposed virus has been exposed.

— You don’t seem to have any sense of continuum of psyops and how they all display the same hallmarks and are connected to each other.

You go ahead and think and say what you like about me, Sophie, and, of course, I will have my opinion about how you think and what conclusions you draw.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 11:09 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I’ve just given you the most important documentary in the history of the world and you want me to find the snippets of the photos of the lunar junk heap that shows the panels falling off?

Why is it important? Because if they can pull this massive scam off …. they can pull ANYTHING off.

It was roughly a year ago and I downloaded the Apollo movie… my wife and I watched about 45 minutes of it and we looked at each other and one of us said — that piece of junk looks like someone made it in their basement — no way that landed on the moon. No way.

Up until then I just assumed we had…. never really looked into it.

After watching that movie I started to dig — and I found a fantastic essay on this — Moon Doggie (can’t recall the link).

Then I found Astronauts Gone Wild… which lead me to American Moon

That documentary makes a complete mockery of the moon landings…

For instance – they speak to NASA managers who admit they taped over all the footage BECAUSE those tapes are expensive so they had to reuse them… and they junked the plans and other stuff BECAUSE they took up too much space. Duh – the biggest event in history and you dump the plans in the bin????

As for context of the snippet I provided — what more do you need? Are you blind? Do you need it in braille?

They are FAKING being in lunar orbit. Absolutely faking it.

So no I won’t spoon feed you – you either are curious… or you are not and can bumble along in your delusional world.

I’ve already spent far too much time responding to you.

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 1:49 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

I’ve just seen this response now but I’ve responded to another comment you made where you put forward American Moon which I didn’t mention I actually watched – at least it was perfectly watchable unlike Something funny … – oh my goodness, awful … and then I found the debunking of it and the debunking of Wagging the Moondoggie – which was the first thing I looked at when I first embarked on my journey to see if the moon landings were real or not and found it very compelling … until I started to look at the evidence myself and started looking at the debunking of the moon hoax arguments.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 10:45 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

I suppose you think that the American government did not orchestrate 911?

All these men and women are — ‘conspiracy theorists’ – right? https://www.ae911truth.org/

And this is the rantings of nutjobs – right?

https://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf

Then of course… Building 7 collapsed because… um… because?

https://youtu.be/zRpCwKRnL1M

And then last but not least… there are no explosives in this video – right? And when buildings collapse material always flies horizontally – right? (girders ended up across the street…)

https://youtu.be/nUDoGuLpirc

Do you also still believe that Saddam had WMD?

And that Lee Harvey shot JFK?

What else do you believe?

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 12:30 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Let’s examine some ‘conspiracy theorists’…

https://gbdeclaration.org/

Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.

Debunked!

https://theconversation.com/5-failings-of-the-great-barrington-declarations-dangerous-plan-for-covid-19-natural-herd-immunity-148975

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/27/facebook-posts/great-barrington-herd-immunity-document-widely-dis/

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-10-15/great-barrington-declaration-is-wrong-about-herd-immunity

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/herd-immunity-great-barrington-backlash-letter

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/viewpoint-the-not-so-great-barrington-declaration

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 2:16 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Hilarious! You’ve obviously never encountered my comments before.

This is my website.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 5:07 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

I’m ahead of you on WTC-7, Eddy.

It’s not how but WHY. Of course we all know how, it’s so obvious – a little too obvious, perhaps? When they give us the truth in our faces so very, very obviously suspicions should be alerted.

All propaganda is lies, even when one is telling the truth.

George Orwell.

Why did they showcase WTC-7’s collapse? Why did they film it from at least seven different vantage points? Why did they self-incriminate in that way?
https://youtu.be/Vgx8Uwo-Vxc

Huh, Eddy? Why?

Ahead of you there.

I’ve written a poem to mark the 20th anniversary of 9/11.

These are the first four stanzas. More to be revealed closer to the date. But perhaps you can work it out in the meantime.

9/11: A proper gander

They knew tall towers fall not by fuel
But knew they’d fool us that they will
All except who wouldn’t be fooled
But then they fooled the unfooled too

They had us in a trance with
Their gift, the “smoking gun”
An afternoon implosion
Impeccable, superbly done

They showcased their demolition
No vantage points a-missin’
But what could be the reason
For this self-incrimination?

Buildings 3, 4, 5 and 6
Came down later with none transfixt so
On the day of 9/11 why
Make a show of Number 7?

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 10:52 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

You may be able use this to understand your condition … and escape from DelusiSTAN … using this analysis:

On The Psychology Of The Conspiracy Denier
A closer look at the class that mocks.
Why is it that otherwise perfectly intelligent, thoughtful and rationally minded people baulk at the suggestion that sociopaths are conspiring to manipulate and deceive them? And why will they defend this ill-founded position with such vehemence?

History catalogues the machinations of liars, thieves, bullies and narcissists and their devastating effects. In modern times too, evidence of corruption and extraordinary deceptions abound.

We know, without question, that politicians lie and hide their connections and that corporations routinely display utter contempt for moral norms – that corruption surrounds us.

https://off-guardian.org/2021/03/12/on-the-psychology-of-the-conspiracy-denier/#

Oh and did I mention Sweden and their huge success dealing with Covid? Yep – they are 30th on the deaths per capita list…. they were 5th at one point but they adopted Focused Protection (Great Barrington Declaration) and protected at risk people…

Imagine where they’d be on the death count if they had done this from the beginning?

Of course referring to Sweden’s covid strategy a success is a conspiracy theory – right?

Sweden’s medical system and economy have collapsed… Swedes are dying in the streets….

We can’t say there were not warned to lockdown and mask up – right?

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 2:05 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

But I’m not a conspiracy denier, Eddy, I recognise many, many, many psyops. I have a website on psyops so no one would ever call me a conspiracy denier, I’m mostly called a conspiracy theorist although I reject that term and call myself an analyst of Psychological Operations. And I know that the psyops I’m aware of are only a tiny drop in the bucket. Essentially, psyops are perpetrated on us virtually every single day, I’d say. They are relentless.
https://occamsrazorterrorevents.weebly.com/

What moon-hoaxers really don’t pick up on is that the moon landings have absolutely ZERO in common with the myriads of psyops that are committed. There’s no telltale signs … except for those people who tell us that the moon landings didn’t happen, there we can see the psyop signs perfectly. Bill Kaysing, Head of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne. Hilarious!

You seem very fixed in your beliefs, Eddy, so I probably won’t engage with you any further. However, please don’t ever accuse anyone of not looking at the evidence if you’re not prepared to look yourself. If you’re only prepared to confine yourself to material issued in the moon-hoax sphere, please don’t accuse others of not looking. I’ve read Wagging the Moondoggie (before I had a clue either way and found it compelling I have to say – but that was before I had a clue). I’ve watched American Moon. I won’t watch Something Funny … because I simply find the narrator’s voice too awful, the whole style of the film is just appalling. And the fact is I’ve gone too far, I KNOW the moon landings happened, I know there’s no evidence that can say they didn’t.

If you don’t look yourself, if you don’t read the debunking, if you don’t watch Moon Machines then you have zero credibility, you’re just a moon-hoaxer.

Of course, the perps predicted that if someone such as I turned up to show moon-hoaxers, hey, you’re being duped, Bill Kaysing and Dave McGowan are disinformation agents, that my words would be paid no attention to, I’d be ignored.

They understand us so very well, Fast Eddy, so well. We’ve got no chance against them because we have no clue how well they understand us and how easy we are to target with their mind control.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 2:21 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

So you are still refusing to watching American Moon….

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 5:29 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

I told you I already watched it and yes at the time I found the claims about the fall off compelling even though by the time I watched it I was convinced we went to the moon. That is why I looked up debunking of American Moon and found the debunking where unfortunately only in the comments rather than in the body of the actual debunking the debunker shows how the photos were cherry picked and many photos, in fact, don’t show fall off. We also see clear evidence of a vast swathe of land evenly and clearly lit when the rover is travelling over it.

You really need to open your mind, Eddy. You need to go to the other side and see what they put forward.

I watched American Moon when I was convinced we went there.

Are you going to watch at least one episode of Moon Machines? I told you my last reply on the moon landings was my last and now foolishly I’m responding, however, if you watch one episode of Moon Machines I’ll respond to your comment on that. Please do not comment again to me on the moon landings unless you do some proper due diligence and watch at least one episode of Moon Machines and also read the American Moon and Wagging the Moondoggie debunkings carefully, including the comments.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 11:15 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Here we have the interviews with top photographers – every single one of them insists the moon photos are taken in a studio…

Watch … or remain in ignorance…

https://youtu.be/KpuKu3F0BvY?t=8201

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 5:45 AM
Reply to  Howard

Anyone who watches this in its entirety and still thinks we have been to the moon —- should sign up to be the first person to receive a brain transplant.

https://youtu.be/KpuKu3F0BvY

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 11:12 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

I’ve just completed a 6 minute course in brain surgery … I am ready to take this to the next level and try my hand at a transplant.

I need someone to watch American Moon and tell me they still believe we’ve been to the moon …

Standing by,,,

https://youtu.be/-pqxtlCpIoM

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 14, 2021 1:27 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

The film has been debunked, Eddy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/eqfeqs/debunking_american_moon/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/i1rkbp/debunking_american_moon_part_2/

And here is a debunking of Wagging the Moondoggie by intelligence agent, Dave McGowan, (says Part 1 but cannot find a Part 2)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/hs6zji/debunking_wagging_the_moondoggie_part_1/

What you must do, Eddy, is approach the moon landings with an open mind. Every time you see any claims that something indicates we didn’t go – look up if that claim has been debunked and then check if you think the debunking stands up.

I am the only person I know of who’s picked Bill Kaysing, the first person to say we didn’t land on the moon, as an intelligence agent. This is a very significant fact. It is also a very, very, very significant fact that the perps made Bill Kaysing Head of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne, the company that made the Saturn V rockets for the Apollo program, and then they made him spout nonsense about the lunar module making a huge blast crater, blasting sand and rocks everywhere. A person with such a title would never in a million years have said such a thing.

So do you see the implication? The perps had fun with Bill. They anticipated with 100% accuracy that the moon-hoaxers wouldn’t pick that Bill was an intelligence agent. They predicted they wouldn’t go, “Huh? Someone who was head of Technical Publications at Rocketdyne wouldn’t say nonsense about a huge blast crater and sand blasting everywhere. That’s impossible.” They KNEW, Eddy, they KNEW that the moon-hoaxers would look at the moon landings through a biased lens that blinded them from the truth and they aided them in their efforts by pushing out propaganda to match that biased lens. They KNEW the moon-hoaxers would cherry-pick this that and the other, that they would grab at any seeming anomaly and use it as their “evidence” against the moon landings.

The perps have duped those disinclined to believe them to not believe in the moon landings, one of the very rare true events, in order to undermine us in our efforts to expose the real lies of which there are very many. Please wise up to the fact that you have been duped into not believing in the moon landings in order to undermine our truth-telling efforts for other events.

I highly recommend the fascinating Moon Machines series which I now can only find with Spanish subtitles (hardly a problem though).

Will you watch even one episode of Moon Machines, Eddy? Will YOU show an open mind? Or will you just stick to your moon hoax sphere of information?

https://youtu.be/tmIhhVq0w_o?list=PLnwQbMliel6ymcjlTkXyi7myTIIYlgeLm

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 14, 2021 10:26 PM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

This ‘debunks’ nothing … it’s a load of shit.

Can you point me to the part where they debunk the leaked NASA footage that shows them faking the lunar orbit?

Anything about the taped together landing contraption? The panels falling off?

What about the light source for the photos? Professional photographers say these are studio shots… impossible to even address so they don’t.

Then of course there is the Van Allan Belts… James Van Allan appears in American Moon stating it is not possible to pass through them. NOT possible…. they would kill a human

And here we have a NASA engineer explaining how we still do not have a spacecraft that can pass through with humans safely … and we are working on one

https://youtu.be/bMfUpqnLFCc

People ask ‘how can it be possible to convince so many people that something that did not happen happened’

Look in the mirror.

Did you even watch this? Or did you go straight to Google for the ‘debunking’ site?

Did you find debunking sites for the Great Barrington Declaration, Mike Yeadon, Geert Vanden Bossche, Peter McCullough, Pierre Kory, and Robert Malone? They are all crackpots right?

If you do watch this — they address the ‘debunkers’ theories and blow them up with facts. But of course you won’t watch it. Of course.

Which begs the question – why are you on Off G? Perhaps you were looking for The Guardian and made a mistake? Off G is where the thoughtful and curious people are…..

https://youtu.be/KpuKu3F0BvY

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 2:13 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Professional photographers say these are studio shots… impossible to even address so they don’t.

Professional photographers in fashion, professional photographers who know nothing about the moon. Please read the debunkings carefully and just because certain things aren’t debunked doesn’t mean they’re being avoided.

The debunker makes this comment in the comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/SensibleSite/comments/i1rkbp/debunking_american_moon_part_2/

“Yes, this isn’t finished yet. I’m hoping to make regular updates until I’ve answered every point in the film. So do check back.
Any evidence can seem compelling in the absence of the correct context. The question of light falloff in the Apollo photography is a very good example. The makers of American Moon present some photographs which appear to show falloff. But if it was genuine falloff, it should appear not just in a few photographs – it should appear in all the photographs from the lunar surface. But if you go and actually look at the Apollo pictures, you’ll find thousands – literally thousands – showing large areas of ground with no falloff whatsoever. The pictures in American Moon are cherry-picked. They’re pictures where the slope of the ground has caused shadowed areas. The documentary makers make sure to ignore the thousands of other pictures where this doesn’t happen.
Here’s a gallery I’ve made of pictures with no falloff. In my opinion, none of these pictures could have been done with studio lights, as the lighting is too even:

https://imgur.com/a/yl2ebk4

And then you have this 16mm footage of the astronauts driving over an area much too large to be evenly lit by artificial light:

American Moon even includes footage which disproves the falloff theory, when they show the lunar rover driving around. It’s driving over a large, evenly-lit area. But they make no mention of the fact.

I’ll try to answer some other questions from the film soon. In the meantime if you want to link to any pictures here please do.”

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 2:40 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

But petra dahling… fashion photographers understand lighting … and they understand what happens when film gets near a radiation source… and they know what happens to film when it gets extremely cold (and it is extremely cold on the moon)…

Would you prefer a sports photographer? Maybe a family portrait photographer? A news photographer? How about a photogapher who specializes in pets!

What sort of photographer would you prefer petra? Which type is qualified to analyse the moon photos?

I know you have not watched … because they explain all of this on American Moon…

They specifically are asking how when the light source (sun) is at the back of the astronauts … they and the lunar contraption front is lit… how do you do that … without another light source (i.e. studio lights)

They even interview the head honcho from Hasselblad for the moon project (that’s the company that made the cameras)… that’s fascinating to watch (at least for me)

I’ve queued it at the photography section because you are clearly too busy watching American Idol reruns to bother with this …

Please … 10 minutes of your time? Pretty please!

https://youtu.be/KpuKu3F0BvY?t=8200

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 2:51 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Try expanding this — check out the loose panels and tape hahahaha

The debunkers admit to the tape but say they used it because rivets would pop in the extreme temps…

But then if you WATCH American Moon – they show other parts that are clearly riveted together hahahahahaha
comment image

But if you won’t watch … I can’t help you …. you will be trapped forever in DelusiSTAN…. (and as you can see I am dedicated to helping …)

Petra Liverani
Petra Liverani
Jul 15, 2021 4:24 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

You obviously haven’t read the debunking properly, Eddy. The pressure vessel inside was riveted while the blanket was not.

Please look at the comment on the photographs made by the debunker above. They cherry-picked the photographs and, of course, we can see the moon rover cover an extensive area of brightly and evenly lit surface.

I watched American Moon as I’ve said and I thought the comments on the photographs were semi-compelling, however, the debunking explains them perfectly. The fall off is due to shadowed ground and they cherry-picked the photographs.

This is my final comment on the moon landings, Eddy.

All I will say is that you must look at the debunking very, very carefully and you should watch Moon Machines. You have been completely and thoroughly indoctrinated by moon hoax stuff – exactly what the perps wanted in order to undermine your ability to call out the real lies such as 9/11 – you need to give the opposing hypothesis a proper chance.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 4:55 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

It’s taped together… taped together… think about that… temperatures that range from +200 to = 200F…. and they are holding it together with tape.

Did you see those white panels that are handing loose from the upper left side of the vehicle?

Does the debunker explains any any of this?

Watch the documentary…

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 5:00 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Does the debunker explain what’s going on in this leaked raw footage?

Very clearly the astronauts are faking being in lunar orbit… they are in low Earth orbit….

This is NASA raw footage darlin….

https://youtu.be/bdQHKf48Mfw?t=1921

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 4:45 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Let’s listen in to what a pro photograph says happened when he tried to shoot in cold weather in Russia… which is a fraction of the temperatures encountered on the moon….

The camera mechanism freezes up and jams … and the film becomes brittle and breaks….

But of course the camera continues to work in – 200+ F and the magical film doesn’t freeze and break hahahahahaha….

Seriously …. I guarantee if you watch you will do as I did and have a laugh afterwards and think ‘how in the hell did I fall for this for all these years!’

Come on – let’s have a chuckle together… it’s ok to admit you were wrong…. I would never say I told you so … it’s just good to have helped someone see….

https://youtu.be/KpuKu3F0BvY?t=9072

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 15, 2021 5:03 AM
Reply to  Petra Liverani

Let’s have a peak at how Buzz Aldrin reacts when shown that leaked photo of him and Neil faking being in lunar orbit…. fabulous stuff!

The directory corner Buzz another time with this … and Buzz punches him in the face hahahaha.

Let’s watch the interview

https://youtu.be/gLa3_chZCsE?t=131

Cassandra
Cassandra
Jul 12, 2021 12:31 AM

Thank you for a beautiful piece. Love that memory of your dad and your first coffee. Yes, I am always grateful for rain.

Peter Jennings
Peter Jennings
Jul 12, 2021 12:05 AM

Rumsfeld. A vicious and spiteful spoiled brat lived the life of greasy poles. Having independence from Blighty doesn’t mean an absence of absolute rule by despots.

Announcing a 2 trillion dollar deficit two days before targeting the very same office in the pentagon tasked with the investigation, was taking the piss IMO.

It’s a shame on the human race that viruses are created to kill old people when a virus that targets those who consider warmongering to be a lifelong career would be far more beneficial.
As far as we can tell we are alone in this universe yet we do little to stop these people ruining the only habitable planet with their weapons of mass destruction. The damage left behind they blame on the public and fossil fuels.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 1:51 AM
Reply to  Peter Jennings

Since when have we not been ruled by despots?

Victor G.
Victor G.
Jul 12, 2021 12:38 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Barcelona – late 1930s

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 13, 2021 1:46 AM
Reply to  Victor G.

As we have seen… those types of governments often end up as the most despotic of all.

Jim McDonagh
Jim McDonagh
Jul 11, 2021 11:09 PM

Good read and topical as Rumsfeld made millions as a stake holder in the Tamiflu fake vaccine for bird flu scam some years ago .

Edwige
Edwige
Jul 11, 2021 11:01 PM

Rumsfeld was a member of Bohemian Grove and chaired the RAND Corporation for much of the 1980s.

Kalen
Kalen
Jul 11, 2021 10:53 PM

Off-topic

Wonder why price of crude oil skyrocketed in last half a year or so.
pipelines broke? No. OPEC + Russia collusion to collapse oil production? No. China rebound demand? Peak traveling season? No. Peak oil? No.

The real answer is because from 2016-2019 effectively bankrupt US shale oil industry got bailed out by .. big banks and Wall Street and probably Saudi interests buying from these companies oil price hedges guaranteeing them minimum price about 35-45 dollars and maximum price of about $50-$60 per barrel in return for total exclusivity in trade in covered year. By that shall oil industry was effectively taken out of the market.

What resulted was in 2021 unwillingness of shale oil companies to lose millions of barrels and billions of dollars in todays market so they purposefully collapsed their production numbers to limit loses of profit refusing to essentially giving away crude oil while Wall Street takes all profits. It actually resulted in noticeable drop in electricity usage in California, Oklahoma and Texas as shale wells were shut down.

Additionally, politically motivated effective embargo and shutting down huge production in Venezuela (and Citgo pricing power in US) and economic aggression against Iran was last nail to the coffin of cheap oil for a while.

Wall Street and Washington gangsters took over your neighborhood gas station and gauging prices.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 1:56 AM
Reply to  Kalen

Conventional oil and gas discoveries have fallen by the wayside since the shale boom and the subsequent oil price collapse. In fact, they’ve fallen to their lowest in 70 years. But there are still some amazing discoveries in the mysterious deep. 

All in all, this year has seen new discoveries of nearly 8 billion barrels of oil equivalent, compared to 10 billion barrels of oil equivalent discovered last year. 

But what’s most striking is that new discoveries aren’t even close to keeping pace with the loss of conventional resources. According to Rystad, the current resource replacement ratio for conventional resources is only 16 percent. In other words, only one barrel out of every six consumed is being replaced with new resources. 

So not only has our pace of discovery declined, but discoveries are also in much more challenging geological venues and typically offshore, which means it could take many years just to bring new resources online. 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Biggest-Oil-Gas-Discoveries-Of-2019.html

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 1:57 AM
Reply to  Kalen

Conventional Discoveries Have Fallen to Lowest Levels in 70 Years; Major Rebound Unlikely, IHS Markit Says
https://news.ihsmarkit.com/prviewer/release_only/slug/energy-conventional-discoveries-have-fallen-lowest-levels-70-years-major-rebound-unlik

susan mullen
susan mullen
Jul 11, 2021 10:34 PM

Rumsfeld was heavily involved in pharma, was chairman of Gilead (Remdesivir) from 1997 til 2001 when he joined Bush #2 admin. but retained his Gilead stock which in 2005 was valued at $5 to $25 million. He stood to profit greatly from global respiratory epidemics/pandemics. It has become much too profitable to sell us out. The only way we’ll ever be free is by breaking up the US into multiple parts. For example, southwest US could join Mexico.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 12, 2021 6:19 AM
Reply to  susan mullen

The ’empire’ isn’t the physical US. The empire is a locus of power and privilege that is supranational. Currently it seems to be ditching the US and moving to fresh fields.

martin
martin
Jul 12, 2021 2:07 PM

Mars I hope.

Martin Usher
Martin Usher
Jul 11, 2021 9:21 PM

I’ve tried to get into the heads of people like Rumsfeld but I keep drawing a blank. His single minded obsession with invading Iraq despite all of the evidence that said that the WMD premise was false could only have had one explanation — the notion that an invasion was planned well beforehand and all that was holding it up was a suitable opportunity.

I will never forget our compliant media, the way that blatant lies were explained away, and dissenters like Hans Blix were trashed, everything sacrificed to the need to conform. Its a lesson in mistrust, one that’s returned to haunt us because now when anyone from the government or mass media opens their mouth to make an assertion its automatically questioned. The unfortunate truth is, though, they don’t care. They have their bubble and from inside it they continue to create global mayhem — why is anyone’s guess.

As for rain, I grew up in England so I learned to take it for granted. Now I live in Southern California its a bit of a novelty, an event that causes people to rush to the windows and stare at it. The sound of water is comforting — unless its the steady drip, drip of a roof leak.

Penelope
Penelope
Jul 11, 2021 10:44 PM
Reply to  Martin Usher

Hi Martin! I’m in SoCal too. The key to understanding Rumsfeld is simply to see him as a part of the gangster-cabal who intend to rule the world. The Middle East was potentially a rival culture– ME countries have related languages & religions. Twice they nearly united their political/military resistance to the Euro/American juggernaut– once under Haile Selassie, and once under Bashar al-Assad’s father. Worst of all, they’ve a tradition of a non-usury monetary system.

Hence the Cebrowski Doctrine, taught at Westpoint. Some call it the Rumsfeld/Cebrowski Doctrine.

In trying to understand a public figure one just naturally applies a degree of logic to normal motivation. But the high-level PTB are psychopaths– like very organized serial killers, but not content to merely control & torment a FEW victims. For them the meaning of life is to transform all Others to mere tools to their own Will.

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 3:09 AM
Reply to  Penelope

When speaking of incipient Middle East unity, don’t forget Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt. Had he lived, the Middle East would not be in shambles today.

Penelope Powell
Penelope Powell
Jul 12, 2021 7:28 AM
Reply to  Howard

Howard, you’re right– Nasser was another great man. I cried when they killed Muammar Gaddafi. People don’t understand how much he achieved or how just he was. They saw only his eccentricities. All memory of the real man has been wiped out by Western lies. He was on the verge of inaugurating a gold-backed currency to invest in Middle East development projects. They went in and stole all the gold afterwards– flew it out of Libya.

Cyndee J
Cyndee J
Jul 13, 2021 4:21 AM

Gaffafi truly cared about his people or so it seemed.
As the recent world leaders including Tanzania and Haiti who dared stand up to the cabal. And died martyrs.

Edith
Edith
Jul 11, 2021 11:06 PM
Reply to  Martin Usher

Learn astrology it does help to understand these people and their motivations…well we all know power is the main one but the drivers are usually childhood transits to natal points…I.e. I keep being suspicious that b gates had some problem from a very early childhood illness that he thinks could have been prevented with his beloved vax..thus his obsession….so many of these people have self confidence and lack of worth issues…and Donald being born in 1932 had the echo of stock exchange crash and poverty staring them all in the face…no one was ever going to tell him he was wrong with mercury in Leo…

saturn and friends started to take him out last year…and neptune was always going to get him…and did…I don’t know what he actually died from on the certificate but it was a very busy death…but Venus is usually kind to all of us at death and even he got that…

his arrogance had to be great but sadly for us all death comes….taxes may have been avoidable for him but death no.

Edith
Edith
Jul 11, 2021 11:10 PM
Reply to  Edith

Meant to add….at least he got warning of impending death….unlike the poor bastards he organised bombs to rain down upon…

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 2:26 AM
Reply to  Edith

Did you know…. that there was a movement in the US to free up slaves and repatriate them to a Liberia in the late 18th century.

You will never guess what the former slaves did when they arrived in Liberia.

Come on … take a guess!

Ah never mind… I’ll tell you … they enslaved the native people of Liberia!

Then of course we have the Jews — heavily persecuted for centuries… do they look at the Palestinians and say — you poor fellas.. we know how it feels… how can we help?

And then the US — built on revolution … happily smashing revolutions across the world for a hundred+ years now….

What you folks desire is akin to asking a lion to not eat a wounded gazelle.

The thing is …

We are all complicit in these atrocities… even if we criticize the policies… the reason we live large is because of these policies… our countries have won…

And not everyone can be a winner of course…. and for those who think it is feasible to share so that everyone has a decent lifestyle …

Then I suggest we test your convictions… but doing this…

I will set up a fund — you donate half of your income to this fund — I will ensure that all the money is used to help the losers who are living in extreme poverty. I will be transparent and publish info on what every single dollar was spent on.

Can I initially just get some upvotes to see if it is worth my time to prep the fund. We’ll then ask people to disclose all sources of income then set up an autopay facility each month.

I’ve got a bet with my wife that says I’ll get zero takers on this….

rubberheid
rubberheid
Jul 12, 2021 8:00 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

test convictions? well FE, why are you still here? you want an extinction event remember, “we” deserve it, remember? so take yourself right off that cliff or straight under that bus with your convictions.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 8:17 AM
Reply to  rubberheid

But wouldn’t that be futile given there would still be nearly 8B others left who continue to destroy the planet.

And I want to be around for the Big Reveal… that’s when we get to see exactly what these Injections will do to us… I am on Team Bossche — they’ll create a ‘Marek’s’ outcome (deadly variants) and we’ll all die.

Plus it’s ski season down here… I am hoping we can make it till the end of September.

In the meantime I will continue to bring these fabulous insights to all of you so you can have fun downvoting me 🙂

Victor G.
Victor G.
Jul 12, 2021 1:48 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Don’t Bogart that joint, Eddy …

SEF
SEF
Jul 14, 2021 6:04 PM
Reply to  Victor G.

😆😂🤣

rubberheid
rubberheid
Jul 12, 2021 3:35 PM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

such selfishness and an absence of conviction! you crave an extinction but you want to survive. Right you are Eddy. Is your real name Ken? I won’t sate your desire for a downvote, but I do recommend you gain clarity or pick a side.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 13, 2021 1:03 AM
Reply to  rubberheid

Yes I am conflicted…

Mr DNA who wants to call the shots from deep within me… says ‘I want to live’… but I’ve thwarted him by refusing to breed… so I do have veto power….

However I am having so much fun as we slide into the final phase of civilization … you would have thought that someone who understands the oil issue — and recognizes we have very little time left… would fall into deep despair …

On the contrary … since realizing this over a decade ago … I’ve taken the opportunity to embark on so many great adventures… I did all the things that people say they wished they had done but are now too old…

I’ve been on an ice breaker through the Northwest Passage… travelled on a slow train through Burma… hiked in remote areas of Patagonia… slept in the desert with Bedouins… haggled with an Afghani carpet dealer in Bukhara…. been diving in some of Indonesia’s remotest islands… and on and on and on ….

The Great Bucket List is winding down now… yet I have no intention of overruling Mr DNA and shutting things down.

We are experiencing the most momentous period in the history of man…. and it will culminate in our extinction ….

As a life-long student of history … I am not about to give up my front row seat to watch the curtain come down on civilization.

I’ve got the Champagne and caviar chilling (and some very nice single malts)…

The fat lady is warming up!

And the end of humans cannot arrive quickly enough for every species on the planet…

Mother Earth is preparing to put a pillow over the face of the cancerous organism and exterminate it.

Exterminate… with extreme prejudice.
comment image

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 13, 2021 8:22 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

but I’ve thwarted him by refusing to breed

No offence, but did you ever really have the option?

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 13, 2021 8:47 AM

Well… I did wait until I was 42 to get married… not because of lack of options … rather the opposite.

A single male living in Hong Kong … tends to have … options … shall we say.

My wife has also vetoed Mr DNA… children vs travel… travel won…

We could roll in a Tesla to flash some faux green creds… but we instead walk the walk by just saying no

I can’t get enough of this … let’s watch again!

https://youtu.be/rcx-nf3kH_M

What’s your story Sophie?

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 3:16 AM
Reply to  Edith

Supposedly he died of multiple myeloma, which, being a cancer of plasma cells, would indeed be a “very busy death.”

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 2:11 AM
Reply to  Martin Usher

When you operate an Empire… you need to keep countries in line … if you fail to do so … other countries get ideas… because you appear weak…

The Pax Romana was peace backed up by the threat of extreme violence

I’d recommend watching The Sopranos… there are wannabeTony Soprano’s everywhere… Xi and Putin come to mind

Recall how US forces secured the oil fields… they could have cared less about the museums and people… it was not long after this war that conventional oil peaked…

I’ve a good mate who was a partner in a global engineering firm … he was responsible for their work in the oil patch in the US… he mentions that around this time there was a huge push from clients ‘to get as much oil out of the ground as possible’…. all projects were accelerated …

This was the beginning of a desperate battle to ensure supply was sufficient … as we saw that battle was nearly lost as oil hit $147 just prior to the GFC… shale road to the rescue but shale peaked in 2018…. and shale is the last frontier.

It’s all about the oil.

Edith
Edith
Jul 12, 2021 4:53 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

At some level I don’t doubt that re oil…I sense there is quite a deal of confusion about how to keep the train on the tracks…meanwhile the pharma mob just decided let’s get as much money out while we can…and what may have been left in the kitty was transferred to their bank account via central banks and Wall Street…it is almost like Blackwater now rules the western world…

all the lock downs, limits on travel etc appear to be making ready for even more restrictions and after years of being free to waste as much as many liked and take responsibility for little, I suspect my mate pluto in Capricorn still has a bit too run to draw the belt somewhat tighter…most years of this decade do not look good in astrology terms….sometimes I go look and decide it may be better not to know a grim future…

a few windmills and solar panels are not going to keep this lot of wastefulness going…quickly adapting to a frugal living may help some get through…

and no I suspect few if any of us will take up giving much away at this point and for some reason someone gave it a down vote…

Penelope Powell
Penelope Powell
Jul 12, 2021 7:34 AM
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Fast Eddy, Nossir, Peak Oil is another hoax. Please read Wm Engdahl’s online article “Oil, Where Is Thy Peak?”

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
Jul 12, 2021 8:06 AM

Yes of course… oil is infinite right.

Conventional oil and gas discoveries have fallen by the wayside since the shale boom and the subsequent oil price collapse. In fact, they’ve fallen to their lowest in 70 years. But there are still some amazing discoveries in the mysterious deep. 

All in all, this year has seen new discoveries of nearly 8 billion barrels of oil equivalent, compared to 10 billion barrels of oil equivalent discovered last year. 

But what’s most striking is that new discoveries aren’t even close to keeping pace with the loss of conventional resources. According to Rystad, the current resource replacement ratio for conventional resources is only 16 percent. In other words, only one barrel out of every six consumed is being replaced with new resources. 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Biggest-Oil-Gas-Discoveries-Of-2019.html

Keep in mind we’ve been burning nearly 100M barrels PER DAY

The problem is not that we are running out of oil … we are running out of economically viable oil …

HIGH PRICED OIL DESTROYS GROWTH

According to the OECD Economics Department and the International Monetary Fund Research Department, a sustained $10 per barrel increase in oil prices from $25 to $35 would result in the OECD as a whole losing 0.4% of GDP in the first and second years of higher prices.

http://www.iea.org/textbase/npsum/high_oil04sum.pdf

We’ve been offsetting that with stimulus for two decades now … but what cannot continue will stop…

Howard
Howard
Jul 12, 2021 5:10 PM

Let me bring out my “broken record” again, if I may. As I’ve said many times in this forum, big capital – which adores nothing more than a fast, easy profit – would not be contemplating mining the ocean floor if resources abounded at ground level.

Here’s my added two cents: trust alternative pundits a little more than mainstream pundits; but don’t trust them completely. Mr Engdahl has made some excellent points – but also some stinkers. Put a pinch of salt on their tails.

Sophie - Admin1
Admin
Sophie - Admin1
Jul 12, 2021 6:19 PM
Reply to  Howard

That’s a very reductionist view of how money is accumulated. Huge govt contracts and subsidies are a favorite way of shifting money from the masses to the elites. The entire peak oil/climate change morass is worth billions. I bet there’s masses of money to be made by firms getting contracts to design machinery to mine the sea bed – whether necessary or not. It’s not big capital. It’s big scam