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President Obama Threatens President Putin with Nuclear War

by Eric Zuesse.


“It’ll be at a time of our choosing,” says U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, on NBC’’s “Meet the Press,” to be aired on Sunday, October 16th.

Interviewer Chuck Todd had asked him, “Why would he [Obama] send a message out to Putin?” Biden pursed his lips, paused, and said, with a grim look on his face, “We sent him the message.” Of course that didn’t answer Todd’s question, which was “Why?” Biden and Todd both remained silent for another tense moment. Then, Biden picked up again: “We have the capacity to do it, and, uh,” and Todd interrupted him there with “He’ll know it?” Biden replied: “He’ll know it, and it’ll be at a time of our choosing, and under circumstances that have the greatest impact. Uh, the capacity to do, to fundamentally alter the election, is not what people think; and, uh, I tell you what: to the extent that they do [‘do’ presumably meaning: fundamentally alter the election], we will be proportionate in what we do. And, uh,” Todd again interrupted his interviewee, and said, “So, a message is going to be sent. Will the public know?” Biden replied, “Hope not.”

Of course, that “Hope not” could mean many things. It might mean: A blitz nuclear attack in line with our government’s belief that we now enjoy Nuclear Primacy (an idea that was first published by the Council on Foreign Relations in 2006, and which has never yet been renounced by the U.S. government, during the decade since). That would be very much a public response, which Biden would “hope not” to be ’necessary’. In other words: Biden might have meant, there: “I hope it won’t have to be that.” But, clearly, Biden isn’t wanting the public to understand anything, other than that President Obama has threatened President Putin, with something, and that it will be “proportionate,” and the excuse for it will be — if it will happen — that Putin had done something which Obama thinks caused Hillary Clinton to lose the election to Donald Trump.

Standing behind what Biden is saying there, is the belief that Putin does have in his possession some option that might “fundamentally alter the election.” This is clearly a threat that’s meant to deter Putin from doing something that Putin hasn’t yet done. Obama is telling Putin that either the winner will be the person he wants to be his successor, or else — or else what?

In other words: what Biden is saying, is that, if Trump wins this election, then there is going to be some sudden, unannounced, U.S. government response against Putin, and that only after it is over, will the U.S. government explain to the public why it did what it did.

But, of course, that assumes Americans will still be alive, even if Russians are not; and, so, if the “proportionate” response turns out to be a blitz nuclear attack against Russia, then anyone who is still alive will be wondering: what was it ‘proportionate’ to?

The United States is no longer — at least not in Syria — actually fighting the thing that Trump calls “extremist Islamic terrorism”: we are instead arming Al Qaeda in Syria to overthrow and replace Putin’s ally, Bashar al-Assad, there. All of the U.S. government’s talk against “ISIL” (the Sauds’ preferred acronym for “ISIS”) is mere distraction from the tens of thousands of other jihadist fighters from other jihadist groups that have also been imported by the U.S. and Saudi governments into Syria as Obama’s and the Sauds’ “boots on the ground” to overthrow Assad there. The leadership now for all of those jihadist groups (except for ISIS itself) is, in fact, Al Qaeda in Syria, which has gone under the name “al-Nusra.” Nusra is supplying the leadership now to all the jihadist factions that have been sent into Syria; Nusra is the only jihadist group that possesses the long experience and training in jihad and military matters, which is needed in order to be able to overthrow Assad. Al Qaeda is now America’s essential ally, at doing what the U.S. government most wants to do: overthrow and replace Assad. The U.S. is deadly serious about that intention, as can be seen here from the NBC News preview video of their interview with Biden, from which the above quotations are sourced. Looking at Biden’s face there, one can see that this is deadly serious. This isn’t about sexual aggression — either Donald Trump’s or Bill Clinton’s — it’s about the survival of civilization, or else nuclear war.

There have been many reports in the U.S. press saying that Obama has, ever since at least October 6th, been contemplating an all-out U.S. bombing campaign to bring down Assad. But that would mean war with Russia, which has been actively bombing Nusra and all the other jihadists in Syria.

Hillary Clinton is urging a “no-fly zone” in Syria, so that we can do to Assad what we did to another ally of Moscow, Muammar Gaddafi. However, when that was done to Gaddafi, Putin stood aside and wasn’t supplying military assistance to Gaddafi, which would have enabled Gaddafi to wipe out the fundamentalist Muslims who were trying to overthrow him. Russia is involved actively, this time, to prevent happening in Syria what happened in Libya. A no-fly zone in Syria would thus mean U.S. war against Russia.

These are tense times. Any escalation that the U.S. can do against Russia, can be met by an escalation that Russia can do against the United States.

Consequently, whatever escalation Obama is now threatening against Putin, might be met by an escalation on the other side. Where will it stop, or would it even be able to stop?

Whatever escalation Obama might consider to be ‘proportionate’, could consequently end up ending the world as we know it — and not for the better. Hillary Clinton has threatened Putin with war; now Barack Obama has done likewise.

Whatever Biden’s assignment here actually was from Obama, one thing about it is clear: this President is determined that Hillary Clinton be his successor, and Obama will target anyone who gets in his way if he doesn’t win his way on this. And Obama wants the American public to know that this is how he feels about the matter.

This Biden-interview is really intended, in that sense, to be a threat aimed at America’s voters, telling them, telling each one of us: Vote for Hillary Clinton, or else! He’s not telling us what that “or else!” is going to be — and maybe he himself has no accurate idea of how far it will ultimately cycle and go. Ultimately, whatever he thinks it would be, might not turn out to be the last step in this cycle of escalation — unless it’s going to go directly to a blitz attack against Russia.

Obama is thus coercing us, before he coerces Putin. He’s telling us: If we vote against Hillary Clinton — if she loses this election — then President Obama has something in mind that we won’t like — and he won’t wait until the next President is inaugurated on 20 January 2017 to do it, whatever ‘it’ might be. Obama here is threatenting not only Vladimir Putin, but the American people. Even if Obama truly believes that he alone possesses all the power, he does not, unless he possesses the power to terrorize America’s voters to elect Hillary Clinton, even if we otherwise would not.

Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of They’re Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event that Created Christianity.


  1. Arthur says

    Taking in consideration the Muslim Obama, “death to America” is all what they want. So, yes, he’s able to do it. He’s the most disgusting traitor we had, he and the Clintons. Trump may not be good, but is much better than these two garbage.

    • damien says

      The ridiculous canard of “Obama as a Muslim” has its origins in a dodgy 2013 report from the Gatestone Institute, working with a nonprofit neocon organization called the Clarion Project which produces alarmist films and publications aimed at hyping the threat of “Radical Islam”. Gatestone was founded in 2011 by Nina Rosenwald, a wealthy Israeli heiress and a key philanthropic backer of anti-Muslim groups. It promotes Israeli foreign policy interests and its members include many noted neocons who sponsored the US invasion of Iraq and who have called for attacks upon Iran. It is chaired by John Bolton, a former Bush administration diplomat and a conservative hardliner.

      The nonsense Gatestone-Clarion report claimed that Muslims were involved in a decades-long plot to infiltrate the US government and spread “Sharia law” in North America through “front groups” like the Muslim Students Association and the Council on Islamic-American Relations. It put forward the lie that the Obama administration had been infiltrated by Islamic extremists tied to the Muslim Brotherhood.

      The Clarion Project is an odious agency that misrepresents Islam at all levels. Notorious Islamophobes Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer and Geert Wilders figure prominently there. It was founded in 2006 by Raphael Shore, a conservative Israeli rabbi. Its advisory board includes mostly neoconservatives and other US war hawks: Frank Gaffney of the Center for Security Policy; Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum; Ilan Sharon of Minnesotans against Terrorism; Zuhdi Jasser, founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD); Clare Lopez, executive director of the Iran Policy Committee; Harold Rhode, a former staffer under Douglas Feith in the Donald Rumsfeld Pentagon who serves as an adviser to the Gatestone Institute; and Sarah Stern, president of the Endowment for Middle East Truth,which has assisted in the distribution of Clarion films.

      In 2014 Clare Lopez toured Australia at the invitation of the Q Society to speak on the threats of Islam to the West. She found a good audience of frightened people who relied on her expertise. It’s a pity some of those who invited her here did not study her background more closely.


      • archie1954 says

        Bolton was a recess appointment and never should have been honoured with such a position. He was regularly laughed at by the other UN appointees and was the worst ambassador the US ever appointed to that august body.

      • archie1954 says

        At one point a few years ago, a relatively activist group of Muslims organized a petition to the government of the Province of Ontario in Canada to allow Sharia law to be used within the province for personal and divorce matters etc. The provincial government at one point was leaning toward allowing such matters to be governed by Saria for Muslims living there. However a much larger group of Muslims told the government that they opposed such a change in Canadian laws in the province and the government backed off. So it was the Muslim community itself that opposed Sharia anywhere in Canada.

    • Kenny Vee says

      If Obama WAS a Muslim, would it matter? There is no requirement in the law or the Constitution of the United States that a president belong (or not belong) to any particular religion. In fact, the First Amendment to the Constitution would specifically forbid any such requirement.

      So please stop using your own religious intolerance and hatred of the Constitution of the United States of America as a reason to hate a president. We all know you just hate him because he’s…well, it could be because he’s black, it could be just because he’s a Democrat, it could just be because you don’t like his speech patterns, or it could be that you just don’t like him, specifically, as a person. It wouldn’t be fair for me to decide the reason for your dislike of him.

      But to use a religion that he’s never claimed (or shown himself) to be a member of as a scapegoat just shows that you hate one of the basic tenets upon which this nation was founded. So who is the traitor? The person who served in Congress and was duly elected under our Democratic process to be our leader, or the random internet commenter who calls that president a traitor based on you thinking that he’s something that has been protected by this nation’s Constitution for the entire 240 years that we’ve existed?

      Sounds to me like if there’s a traitor in this scenario, it’s you.

    • whats sad, is we are seriously on the verge of WW3 with RUSSIA and American people are more concerned over some trite non issue weather if Obama is a Muslim or not.

      • John2 says

        True, Bob. But what bugs me is US 4 Star General, Mark Milley, yelling about Russia “opposing” [actively resist or refuse to comply with (a person or a system)], but what is Russia doing? Even Mark Milley KNOWS the US was to invade Syria and (6) other countries in (5) years. So, the US freely invades other countries, kills, destroys, whatever they wish, and these Democrats begin to cry, because Russia sees no reason for the US to invade anyone, especially when the US is killing the good, so the (their) bad can succeed? Absurd way of oppsing.

    • Americans need to wake up. There is more to the Russia thing then what trump says. Trump has NO Idea what is going on over there is not even in the white house. He prob wont be. Right now our NEWS is not even pressing what is happening in RUSSIA. Russia just threatened to nuke us if we stop them from heading into the UK. Everyone in Europe knows that Puttin is full of it and he wants to take over the lands he once owned…which were not HIS to begin with. All of this, is going on and our NEWS wont press it.

      • archie1954 says

        Total BS and the ravings of a very ignorant individual who doesn’t get out much. It is Russia which is being surrounded by American and NATO missile bases, not the other way around and this is being done by the US in total contravention of Reagan’s solemn word that NATO would not move one foot Eastward! It was the US that destroyed Ukraine’s nascent democracy and installed an incompetent and fascist puppet government, after removing the legitimate and democratically elected government. It was the US that supported and funded ISIS and other terrorist groups in Syria for a long time until Russia stepped in to turn the tables on international terrorism. What rock do fools like this commenter crawl out from under?

      • Brian Harry, Australia says

        “Right now our NEWS is not even pressing what is happening in RUSSIA. Russia just threatened to nuke us if we stop them from heading into the UK”.
        BULLSHIT, what are you on about?………..”must try harder”…………

      • Should Americans of the United States ever be intimidated by the rulers of another nation or fear the threats of enemies?

        Should anything or anyone other than the inner consciousness and heart of any U.S. citizen influence the privilege to vote?

  2. That a total blather merchant like Obama would start The Big One to turn an election against Trump is beyond silly….not so much off Guardian as off the scale.

    • the press has NOT BEEN sharing what has been happening with Russia. its not siilly…its serious. we are UNINFORMED BECAUSE WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY MESSED UP PRESS. They wont press it.

  3. John says

    I think Eric has got his facts wrong.
    Most western media is interpreting Biden’s remarks as relating to cyber warfare – not nuclear war.
    I think the Dem strategy represents an attempt to look tough so that Trump cannot out-flank them in this area.
    They may also be lining up their excuse – Russian involvement – if Clinton loses the presidential election.
    I daresay the US Supreme Court would be happy to make a reversal ruling – look what happened to Gore.
    The Clinton cabal cannot harbour any desire to inherit a wasted USA – which it would be with nuclear conflict.

    • Before Eric’s next nuke blast, or you go into a panic of a nuke winter.. maybe he/you need to pause.. and look outside the the nasa/seti/Govt lies. Google Larry King CNN ufos shut down missile silos in US, UK and USSR. ‘They’ still monitor 24/7. They’ve zapped a few suspicious launches, even one on a pad a few weeks ago. They’ve told us ‘no nuke war allowed as it will also affect them’. ‘They’? Those guys and gals in touch with Swiss B Meier for over 70 years. http://www.theyfly.com, also well explained in the Pleiadian Mission by R Winters. Sci fi? Decades of investigation by a team led by Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF Intel. Rtd, failed to debunk Meier.. with evidence on 1000+ close-up photos, (100 analyzed by JPL), 8mm cine film, (analyzed by NHK Tokyo), metal fragments, (analyzed by IBM chief scientist Marcel Vogel), sound recordings, (analyzed by MGM sound studios), and accurate prophesies.. have failed to debunk Meier. (Many uTube vids. of this investigation).

    • Nickolaos Filopoulos says

      When warmongering America will stop threatening the world don’t they know they have no friends anymore only one or two lap dogs.

      • Look, just because we agree with that Philippine leader that Obama is a whore, I think he should have at least one friend, maybe Satan.

        • Brian Harry, Australia says

          ‘Satan’?…………….You mean, Satan Netanyahu? I don’t think Obama likes Netanyahu, but Netanyahu is quite happy to ‘get into bed with anyone’ who can ‘give him whatever he wants’……..

          • John2 says

            Yeah, Brian, Satan Netanyahu! Give him control or he’ll cripple your country’s finances,, well unless he gets some GAS pains!

    • John, I think you are correct. US wants to Hack Russia!! Maybe gain some leadership skills!

  4. Brian Burgess says

    Couldn’t Biden be talking about hacking attacks rather than nuclear attacks? Makes more sense if his comments are read in this context.

  5. Manda says

    The psychotically delusional, psychopaths have taken over the biggest nuclear arsenal on the planet. We already know slightly less psychotically delusional have exploded nukes over civilian cities with no hesitation or regret…

    • They can’t use that arsenal and they all know it. That’s why the 3 top boys are developing hypersonic delivery vehicles for conventional warheads. See my new post. It’s all bluster. Vladimir also knows that. The West is in a sheer panic and sprouting these vague threats, as their hegemon goes down the drain, their Catarrrh gas pipeline becomes history, not forgetting the dozens(?) of embedded special forces in Syria/Iraq that are being and will get … vaporized.

  6. Daniel Bilbruck says

    It is bad when countries leaders can take us to war without our permission. My belief is we need to put these kind of leaders on a deserted island and let them kill each other and then we shoot the last one. Save a lot of money that is needed to save this planet.

    • Brian Harry, Australia says

      Unfortunately, “We” don’t have the power to do it, and they know it…….

      • archie1954 says

        But Australia doesn’t have to be a lapdog for the US. That is the case only because the Australian government wants to be on its knees before the US empire!

        • Brian Harry, Australia says

          Australia, does what it is told, by a country that can(and will) takes all we’ve got, if, and when, it suits them……..Just ask the American people……….

  7. Because Russia is smarter and the US swaggering “John Wayne” attitude is just that – attitude not competence. The same applies to the Uk Right wingers who still think that Britain “rules the waves” when in fact, they can’t even rule their own country.

    • Manda says

      They rule it just the way they like it and for their own and their ‘masters’ benefit.

  8. Reblogged this on Worldtruth and commented:

    I just wish Hillary Clinton would die, she has certainly caused enough death to have earned her reward in hell.

    • Brian Harry, Australia says

      The Devil wouldn’t let her in……………

      • She’ll pay for it in the next incarnation, when those who were killed as a result of her decisions, then also incarnate. They’ll get the payback at the expense of her then health and energy. Some call it Karma, but it’s just the Creation’s leveling of the playing field. The Pleiadian Mission by R Winters explains.. , but this only for those who doubt the fairy story that 4M years ago out ancestors were chimps.

        • John says

          Are these the ravings of a lunatic creationist?
          This is just the kind of mentality that will tip peoples and nations into all-out conflict.

        • Brian Harry, Australia says

          Thanks. I want to add that my comments are in no way aimed at the American people……but are aimed at the “political garbage truck” known as the American government……..

          • archie1954 says

            Unfortunately the American people elect the garbage that rules them!

  9. Isn’t this article’s information pathetic? Once again it’s shoot the messenger! If Mme. Clinton did something that would turn the US public against her than she is responsible for the resulting loss of the White House, not the party that tells the World about it. To constantly blame Russia for all of America’s home grown ills is totally foolish and outrageous. Own up to the fact that 90% of America’s problems were Made in the USA!

  10. Stephen Ward says

    Mabe some one should shoot that prick b4 he starts WW3 who the fuck does he think he is You yanks go on about 2nd ammendment the sort your hse out and kill this crazy bastard along with Hillary Clinton b4 it’s to late.

  11. Leslie T Kamery says

    Born to life,condemned to death!! We built this shit, what did they think would happen!!

  12. Hay cosas que me siguen resonando en mi cabeza y una de ellas es cuando, hace uno o dos meses atrás, Barack Obama se pronunció (arbitraria y prohibitivamente) en contra de Donald Trump al decir que “…Donald Trump NO puede ser el Presidente de los Estados Unidos…”

    Sin dudas éstas elecciones marcan una ruptura en le panorama político norteamericano. Veremos que sucede.

    • damien says

      The problem is there is no ‘getting it over with.’ The consequences are dire and forever. The world already faces insurmountable species extinction threats: global overpopulation, resource depletion, species and biodiversity decline, poisoned or insufficient water supplies, an excess of weapons, a dysfunctional global economy, and a lack of robust governance mechanisms.

      All it takes is one sizeable nuclear war to bring all this crashing down and send us into permanent Mad Max territory — hundreds of millions of refugees exiting uninhabitable radioactive wastelands and forcing their way across national borders; a global collapse in law and order. Any General, from any nation, who seriously suggests the world can recover from nuclear war should be frog-marched from office at the point of a gun. They are certifiably insane.

      If the Hiroshima bomb represented approximately 27 freight cars filled with TNT, a one-megaton warhead would require a train 300 miles long. Each Russian RS-20V Voevoda intercontinental ballistic missile packs 10 megatons. Just five of these Russian heavy ICBM rs-20 Voevoda SS-18 Satan missiles can wipe out the Eastern seaboard of the US. Russia has 40 of them.


  13. rtj1211 says

    If Obama has to threaten nuclear war to install Clinton, then she is clearly totally unfit to be President, incapable of getting elected and incapable of engaging the American electorate.

    I do hope US voters understand how to express their contempt for such behaviour and the world will applaud them if they demonstrate this.

    • Brian Harry, Australia says

      Given the appalling choices on offer(and the probability that some sort of vote ‘rigging’ is entrenched in the system), the American people are powerless to stop the final decline of “Democracy” in the USA. The USA Congress stands condemned for passively allowing this corruption to occur in broad daylight. The Lunatics have finally, taken over the Asylum…….

      • archie1954 says

        But there is no reason that Australia has to participate in the insanity, yet it does!

  14. No matter what psyops are perpetrated by what apparent parties in or about any apparent conflict – you are the power to discern the true because the truth of you is not of your making and anything brought to truth will be revealed truly. The baiting of fear into fight and flight is an unsettling and diverting strategy.
    Conflict, fear and horror fascination is an addictive catch 22 that a merely reactive identity perpetuates in place of awakened responsibility. Nothing in the world as presented and believed is what it seems or is framed to be.
    But looking outside for the truth cannot work unless the honesty of acceptance recognizes within – what was brought to awareness via an apparently external event or communication.
    Mind-control is not the only or even natural use of mind, and the insane world that rises as a result of identifying within its narrative identity of control can be a point of recognizing that insanity is not healed by persisting in it but by waking up. Firstly to that you’ve been framed – secondly that you have participated in ways that are hidden and thirdly that your choice is not a proof of guilt but a current capacity to make a better one – aligned with who you feel and know yourself to be – as your current expression of innate integrity.
    Living FROM fear was how we grew it as second nature. Willingness to live from a current awakening responsibility is breaking an addiction – but the recognition of your peace is the most powerful motivator there is. But within the framing of conflict – fear and anger seem to be power and love seems weak. But what you focus in is what you value and therefore what you accept as love. But loving to hate is an insane addiction.

  15. Jenna Simons says

    I really like this article, but the headline is too sensationalistic. We don’t actually know what nasty thing the democrats have up their sleeve. I would share this piece, but I make a point of avoiding articles that use hyperbole in their headlines. I know the point is to attract readers, but it takes away from the credibility of the article. Just my two cents of constructive criticism.

    • You really don’t think that Biden’s statements amount to a repeat of the threat of nuclear annihilation the Obama administration has issued to Russia? Especially given the boastful threat of the same by Mark Milley, US Army chief, on October 5, i.e. only 10 days ago?


      I note that in the above Biden says “We sent him the message,” using a verb tense that can only refer to those prior threats by Milley.

      • johnschoneboom says

        A verb tense that can only mean prior threats by Milley? It seems to me that the verb tense could mean any sort of message that previously occurred. Sorry, I’m with Jenna on this one. To construe Biden’s comments even as maybe meaning nuclear war takes a few speculative leaps. To construe them as definitively meaning that requires a feverish paranoia bordering on the surreal. (And I’m a certified feverishly paranoid surrealist!) I mean, it’s hard to make any sense at all out of Biden’s comments. I know these guys are nuts, but a nuclear strike being proportional to election meddling? I guess it’s refreshing not to be the most paranoid guy in the room for a change…

        • What message do you think Biden is referring to, then, that is consistent with the rest of his threat?

          • johnschoneboom says

            I don’t have the slightest idea. I don’t think it’s possible to tell. I think it’s just as likely that this is utterly empty bullshit “tough talk” as anything else. Or it could be a threat of any action from more tough talk to any of the usual kinds of CIA shenanigans involving mercenary “jihadists”, or economic penalties overt or covert, or literally anything at all. He certainly doesn’t say anything about any sort of physical violence, let alone nuclear bombs. I should think the burden of a rationale falls on those who presume it can only mean nuclear attack. I read his words and all I can think is that he has uttered some barely coherent nonsense. It’s not that I discount the threat of nuclear attack in general — I just don’t see why it should be presumed to be a likely meaning here, let alone the only possible one.

      • Brian Harry, Australia says


        I seem to recall that, that’s what the USA was thinking during the Vietnam War(Known as the American War, to the Vietnamese)until they fled back to the USA, soundly beaten, and rather embarrassingly called it an “Honourable withdrawal”……

  16. Jim Porter says

    When a bully keeps threatening you, sometimes the only answer is to strike first. I really hope that Russia’s technology gives them the edge (as I heard one of the US generals mention – ‘US is outTeched’) in that they don’t strike the first blow and can rely on their tech to respond quickly to attack – less chance of nuclear war, hopefully.

    • archie1954 says

      It is difficult fr me to wrap my mind around the “outTeched” remark. The US spends more its military than the next ten largest nations’ expenditures for defense. The US has intentionally hobbled Russia’s economy with sanctions to make it even more difficult for it to spend on defense, yet it outTech’s the American defense complex. How can they do it?

      • Russia has for the past decade at least developed better weapon systems then the US has. Without going into a lot of details… they have improved good older systems and brought much of it into the space age… . Their defense budget is about a tenth of ours…. but costs are much lower. Their national debt is minute compared to ours also…and they have larger Gold reserves than most western and European countries. The sanctions are a minor irritation to them , and actually affect the EU worse . In short…if it comes to a hot war…they’ll kick our asses. I’ll close by saying that war is not what they want….our Neocons ..overflowing with hubris would like war.

      • johnny says

        “The US spends more…”
        Well that is what the whole MIC is for isn’t it? The military pay $30 for a nut and bolt that could be had at the pound shop for a pack of three, everything else is pro-rata – that is the nature of the game, as is the foreign aid given to various countries spent back in the USA on weapons that are probably 30x overpriced. It’s nice work if you can get it

        • Brian Harry, Australia says

          “The military pay $30 for a nut and bolt……..”
          AND, the minimum wage in America is $7.50/hour. It’s “slavery”, but called “free enterprise’ to make it look acceptable……

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