UPDATED: Skripal Case: Gaping Holes in New Narrative
The article was amended 6/9/18 to correct a factual error – it originally asserted that the perfume bottle had been discovered in Amesbury, that was a mistake. Although Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess reside in Amesbury, Rowley is alleged to have found the perfume during a shopping trip to Salisbury.
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) named their suspects in the poisoning of Sergei Skripal et al. today. The two men – named as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov – entered the country on legal VISAs but are alleged to be travelling under aliases. The CPS has charged the men with a laundry list of offenses, but not applied to Russia for extradition as it is forbidden, by the Russian Constitution, for the Russian federation to extradite a citizen.
These are the new facts, but like all the previous announcements in this bizarre odyssey, they present more questions than answers.
1. Why did two alleged GRU agents travel under false names and fake passports, but still use Russian names and Russian passports? If they had used EU passports – say from Lithuania or Estonia for example – they wouldn’t have needed a visa, thanks to EU freedom of movement agreements, and could still have spoken Russian without raising suspicion.
2. Was the novichok gel or liquid? We’ve never been given clear information on the actual poison – how deadly it is, how it’s made, where it was applied, how long it takes to work – all of these are complete unknowns. What sparse information we HAVE been given is contradicted by today’s announcements.
We were told previously that the novichok allegedly used on the Skripal’s was in “gel form” and “smeared” on the front door. Whereas the poison that Rowley and Sturgess later came in contact with was in a perfume bottle, and therefore a liquid capable of being atomised. These were never referenced as the same thing, until today.
Speaking to the BBC, Scotland Yard’s Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu claimed:
the manner in which the bottle and packaging has been adapted makes it a perfect cover for smuggling the weapon into the country, and a perfect delivery method for the attack against the Skripal’s front door”.
So was the poison sprayed on, or smeared on? Do they have any idea? Which brings us to the next question…
3. How did they re-seal the perfume bottle? Assuming that Basu is right, and the perfume bottle WAS used to attack the Skripal’s front door, how did they re-seal it afterwards? Rowley has always been very sure the bottle of perfume was in a sealed box and wrapped in cellophane – here’s a link, with a screencap below just in case it gets memory holed.
The police themselves don’t seem to sure on this point, Basu said:
We don’t yet know where the suspects disposed of the Novichok they used to attack the door, where Dawn and Charlie got the bottle that poisoned them, or if it is the same bottle used in both poisonings.”
We DO know where Dawn and Charlie got the bottle that poisoned them, Charlie said he took it from a charity donation bin Catherine Road in Salisbury on June 27th.
So maybe they didn’t re-seal the bottle, they just brought another one.
So did the suspects bring TWO (identical?) bottles of poison with them? Did they use one and leave the other one in a charity donation box? Why would they do that? We are told the suspects left the country after the attack on the Skripals on March 4th, so they must have dumped the “perfume” the same day? Is there CCTV footage of the “suspects” on Catherine Road that day? If not, how did it wind up there? And how did it sit undisturbed in a charity bin for nearly 3 months?
4. Why did no one at their hotel get sick? The police have claimed that the hotel the two men stayed at was “contaminated with novichok”, and yet no one has reported and symptoms at all.
How can a hotel room be “contaminated” with novichok? Novichok is not radioactive, it is a nerve agent. To contaminate the room the suspects would have to physically apply the poison to it, and since they allegedly left country on March 4th – the same days as the alleged attack – the contamination must have happened BEFORE Sergei Skripal was poisoned. How? The police are telling us the suspects must have opened their bottle of “deadliest poison ever” the day before they needed it AND in their own hotel room. Why would they do that?
We’re told that novichok is especially potent (deadlier than VX, which can kill in doses of 10mg or less) and does not degrade, and despite 2 months passing between the attack and police searching the hotel, not one single person was affected. Why not?
As usual with the Skripal Case, more questions than answers.
UPDATE:
5. What is wrong with the CCTV? Further questions have been raised regarding the released “evidence” of CCTV captures. Namely that 2 separate stills, of two separate men, from the same CCTV camera display the exact same time, down to the second:
This calls into question the reliability of all the photographic/video evidence. MoonofAlabama has an excellent write-up on this issue here, as does Craig Murray, who has done great work on this case.
6. So what is the new timeline? The Police narrative puts our two “suspects” arriving in Salisbury at 11.48am, but the Skripal’s left their home ay 9.15 that morning, so Borishov and Petrov were far too late to “smear” novichok on the front door. The two suspects then, supposedly, left Salisbury for London at 1.50pm, over two hours BEFORE the Skripals were taken ill on that park bench. So what is the timeline?
Novichok, and all nerve agents, work extremely fast (they are designed to). People usually experience symptoms within seconds of exposure. This does not fit with our supposed suspects leaving hours before Sergei and Julia were sick. The speed of nerve agents taking effect has never fit this narrative, but the open-ended nature of the window meant the police could always, eventually, change tack and claim the Skripals were attacked as they sat on the bench. This announcement cements the UK government to a timeline that is almost impossible to reconcile with both their previous statements and common sense.
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It will probably be a 100 years + before we get to see the forensic examination of various phones including those of the Skripals. Did they remove their batteries for the 4 hours when their phones were ‘switched off’? Did the ‘agents’ have phones? Phone records can be illuminating in any investigation and I imagine even more so here.
My point is phones can still be tracked when simply turned off. Criminals say you must remove the batteries but doing that in itself suggests a guilty mind; in this case a fear of surveillance; why would that be? Who did they fear? Were the phones really switched off or is that an invention to avoid saying where they went during those 4 hours?
Still unexplained is how the ‘agents’ arrived at around noon to smear the door handle but there is nothing to suggest the Skripals went back to the house after 12 noon. This is the trouble with stories created in panic; the contradictions mount.
No doubt the steeple are uncritically swallowing this “proof” of Putin’s (as opposed to Mother Theresa’s) guilt. For a nation braying constantly into computer pockets, we are pathetic. Thank God for ‘fake news’ sites like this that keep journalism alive.
Latest news is that decontamination of the Skripal house has begun.
But how, where and when did Wiltshire Council officers consult with and obtain permission from the Skripals to start the work?
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2679075/skripals-consulted-over-salisbury-house-decontamination/
And shouldn’t the neighbours have been advised to leave or even be evacuated for health and safety reasons, rather than be given a choice of whether to stay or to leave?
“How the Brits soiled their pants in the Skripals case” by Russian humorist Ruslan Ostashko, Translated and subtitled by Scott Humor, Vineyard of the Saker,
September 07, 2018
https://thesaker.is/how-the-brits-soiled-their-pants-in-the-skripals-case-by-ruslan-ostashko/
Ruslan Ostashko is a good humorist but finds himself outclassed by the long running British farce, renovated with fresh characters at Whitehall Theatre of the Absurd.
Thus is what I think happened in the Skripal poisoning.
After his wife’s and son’s death Skripal became very lonely and isolated in the UK. He wanted to go home. His mother was elderly and not in good health. His daughter was in Russia.
So he made contact with the Russian government but he had to offer something valuable to the Russian government for his repatriation. Negotiations had to done through his daughter as obviously everything else would be monitored. Most probably he offered information on the dodgy dossier which he had helped compile and which had been commissioned by the UK government/Establishment to damage the chances of Trump in the election. Any evidence of this would have been dynamite for the Russian government.
However, his daughter would have most definitely been under intense surveillance in the UK so taking physical documents would have been impossible. So I suspect the role of the two guys in Salisbury was to check Skripal had the evidence he said he had.
According to news reports on 3 March the Skripals left home early in the morning with their phones switched off possibly to avoid being located. During that period Julia may have had an MI5/MI6 proof phone and was in contact with the two guys as they travelled to Salisbury, who they met sometime after their arrival..
Aware that something was odd was going on MI5/MI6 contacted Skripal once the phones were switched to tell him that they needed to meet at around 4pm in the park. This may well have been why Skripal was so worried and anxious in the restaurant. The couple filmed near the park carrying a red bag, may have poisoned him with fentanyl as it was necessary for MI5/MI6 to put Skripal out of action as soon as possible to stop the role of the UK government/Establishment in the dossier being revealed. Trump might very well have cut off relations with the UK. To put all this behind them the UK government invited Trump for a state visit.
Any holes?
I don’t see the two men bringing documents but agree JULIA was key; after all they had arrived just the day before her. I imagine she had the conditions attached to his return to see his mother or stay for the last few years of his life. It would involve de briefing of course. Travelling all over Europe is likely to have involved a bit more than spinning old yarns about how he sold his ex-mates to the British. You can’t conjure up many after dinner jokes on the back of rank betrayal. Julia’s contacts with the Russian secret services via her boyfriend and his mother is well established. She was the message bringer. It seems her father was upset by lunch time but was that because of the conditions (like ‘I give back the money’ would be hard for him to stomach). So maybe there was another message that irked him; flat refusal from MI6 to allow him to go. If he was involved in the Urination Dossier then he’d very probably spill the beans; it’s a draw back when employing double agents, they can turn and turn again. So incapacitate was the order of the day; who knows his plan might have been to go home immediately, with Julia. With the pair safely in hospital the idea to say it was Russians using a nerve agent was put forward. It’s unraveled as such strikingly imaginative Spook’s ideas tend to. It would be horrible to think the woman Dawn died to “prove” that there really was a deadly nerve agent around but once you start digging a pit then it’s sometimes hard to stop. Meanwhile it forms a nice backdrop to the coming effort to persuade Trump to go in big time in Syria when the expected Chemical weapon is exploded.
Love it! What about the cat and the twi guinea pigs and Julia’s tracheostomy scar?
The cat and guinea pigs are an indication of the panic within the authorities as they rushed to come up with a narrative. The Spooks took over freezing the police out so the pets got abandoned. It was a prize Egyptian cat that Sergei was apparently very fond of. Presumably the guinea pigs were kept for traditional reasons – dying in toxic circumstances. They did their job, pity Sergei didn’t notice.
The cat(s) and the guinea pigs are alive and well and long reunited with the Skripals – which I knew anyway, as I have believed more or less from the outset that this whole saga was staged – and as reported in an article in the Sun on March 17th, in which Sergei Skripal’s vet is quoted as saying that he contacted the police as soon as he learnt it was Mr Skripal who was involved, to let them know about the pets. Plus it was also reported a few days later that investigators and forensic experts were at the house checking for any packages that Yulia may have brought with her (and in the Real World, the first thing they would have done before entering the house is check the front door handle, but we didn’t hear anything in relation to the door handle until more than three weeks later, on March 28th if I remember correctly, as if to say they’d only just thought to check it THEN and, in doing so, supposedly found Novichok on the handle).
So why did a government appointed or employed vet describe to the media in graphic detail how the pets had died of neglect, (no food or water) and the cat had been in “great distress”. There were sort of apologies as well. What would be the point of inventing that? The vet said the bodies had been destroyed so there was no point in seeing if any Novo was in the blood; it sounds as if they knew there wouldn’t be otherwise surely they would have looked? It seems you have no proof, just a ‘feeling’? What’s your feeling about where father and daughter are now?
Did you check out the Sun article I mentioned? And is it possible – as reported at the time – that they were at the house checking for packages that Yulia may have brought with her, and that they just left the animals there when they finished. In the Real World, they would have been at the house in a matter of hours after DS Nick Bailey was admitted to the hospital with the same symptoms as the Skripals.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5833121/russian-sergei-skripals-pet-cat/
And as reported on March 8th (“fingertip search of house”):
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/russian-spy-nerve-agent-plot-police-officer-talking-to-investigators-in-hospital-as-sergei-skripal-a3784531.html
In the early days there were photos of the cat, a glorious pussy. Presumably he/she is now subject to a D Notice so no photos or even a mention is allowed? But what was it’s name? He/she deserves to join the famous animals of the past caught up in double dealing and murder – like poor Rinka.
the cat was called Van Drake, RIP.
Thank you. Be good if there was a candidate in Salisbury at the next election representing Cat Lovers. Residents would have a chance to register their unhappiness with the collapsing story. Van Drake would look good on posters, much more cuddly than the Tory candidate I suspect.
The pets are all alive and well and long reunited with the Skripals:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5833121/russian-sergei-skripals-pet-cat/
In the Real World, the investigators and forensic experts would have been at the house in a matter of hours after it was determined that the Skripals and DS Nick Bailey had been poisoned with a nerve agent, and any other scenario is inconceivable, but here’s an article dated March 8th that has them in the house:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/russian-spy-nerve-agent-plot-police-officer-talking-to-investigators-in-hospital-as-sergei-skripal-a3784531.html
Yes, it is horrible to think MI5/MI6 got rid of Dawn to reinforce their narrative but they’ll do anything to preserve the power of the Establishment
horrible but certainly likely……this is why something new must now be discovered to show how the Skripals got contaminated from their doorknob well after 11.48 before the Weds debate cus even a Jon Baron like backbench Tory might pick this one up ….otherwise May could be left with Novichok all over her mask
The chemical brothers tour of Salisbury, a recap.
Saturday 3rd our intrepid assassins do a recce. We don’t know when they arrived or where they went, good spycraft there but we do know when they left as they conveniently posed for a picture at Salisbury station.
Sunday 4th, the big day. We have a picture of them arriving and then, really fortuitously, a date stamped picture outside the petrol station on Wilton Road. (personally I think the shadows are not right). Maybe the spycraft on the recce wasn’t so good. To get this far they managed to avoid the cctv camera at the juction of S. Western Road and Fisherton Street, just down from the station and the camera on St Pauls roundabout. They should have used Google maps, this would have directed them via the A360 and not Wilton Road.
A quick bit of daubing/spraying of the most deadly nerve agent known to man and they were off. Back to the station, of course not. Lets go sightseeing in Salisbury. A very quick 30min hike into the town centre passed all the cameras mentioned and probably a few more and they are next seen on their way back to the station on the bridge at 13.05pm. Except there are doubts on this photo too (its those pesky shadows).
Time for a bit of window shopping at the coin shop, probably the only shop in Fisherton Street with cctv, these guys are really unlucky. Why did the Daily Mail not ask about the time stamp, which contradicts the Mets timeline, and how did they get the footage so quickly?
They then hang around for 40minutes on the very street corner Sergei is going to pass on his way to lunch then back to the station and away, of course carefully missing the camera pointing up S. Western Road.
What pisses me off is that this account takes at face value the information we have been given. The Police have had 6 months to get this together and this is the best they can come up with?
I always thought HMG [of all political persuasions] was incompetent. But the way they have dealt with BREXIT and the Salisbury incident. IMHO just proves that they are incompetent.
My contribution to the discussion (also commented this at Craig Murray’s site):
Although I’m from the Netherlands this Skripal affair really intrigues me.
Right from the start the scenario that the Russian state would use a chemical weapon to murder an ex-spy on UK soil, right amidst the constant karfuffle about chemical weapons in Syria, has struck me as very very very unlikely. And that it was supposed to be done using ‘novichok’, the same agent which appeared in a recent TV spy film in the UK, just added to that. The scenario is just ‘too good’ to be true.
Putting all the info we now have together I would say that the Skripals in reality were never intoxicated with nerve agent. They were decapacitated using BZ agent (by the police officer who also suffered symptoms?) and they were then brought to hospital (initially thought to be a fentanyl intoxication). Them not being intoxicated with nerve agent is in agreement with the lack of health complaints by the medical docter who took care of the Skripals when they were outside in the Salibury park and the report by the medical docter at the Salisbury hospital emergency unit that no patients were brought in with nerve agent symptoms on that day.
The operators responsible for the set-up (secret agents) had already practiced the trick of how to insert contaminated blood samples into the investigation process in Syria (Khan Sheikhoun) and they applied this trick repeatedly in the Salibury case. (The chemists at Porton Down doing the chemical analyses may be perfectly sincere, as will be those at the designated labs used by the OPCW.) That doctered blood samples were analysed explains the fact that the concentrations of nerve agent as found in the Skripal blood samples by the OPCW were impossibly high (they could never have survived such high levels and note that these measurements date from weeks after the event). Now with the release of the pictures of the two supposed culprits we see that the plot included laying out this video trail of the “GRU-men”. Remarkable how strongly these guys were attracted to the street video camera’s of Salisbury! Notice how at Salisbury train station they stand still waiting for the video camera to catch them. They may be patsies or they may have done this trip with full knowledge. For the secret agents behind the whole thing it surely is no problem finding some suitable guys who were willing to do this trip from Moscow to London and then on to Salisbury. Contacts with this or that oligarch or some other secret service (Ukranian?) would be enough. The fact that the UK authorities refuse to supply their Russian counterparts with the finger prints of the two indicates that they do not want them identified.
The mismatch in the police timeline between the time of arrival of the two men in Salisbury and the time when the novichok supposedly was applied to the door knob makes clear the UK police is still not there as to a consistent version of the (mostly fictional) events.
Anyway, this is what I make of it at this stage. Best,Paul
”The UK must provide fingerprints of the suspects in the Skripal case to Interpol, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova stated on Wednesday on the Rossiya-1 channel.
“We should start the conversation with facts, that is, with fingerprints. If according to the British side, these people have come from Russia, they must have received British visas, so, please, “fingers at the table”. Because none of us can work without Interpol here,” the diplomat stressed.
Earlier, she stated that British Ambassador to Moscow Laurie Bristow declined to provide the fingerprints to the Russian Foreign Ministry.” (TASS, September 5.)
http://tass.com/politics/1020148
What valid reason could there be not to give the fingerprints to the Russians?
Nothing but playground mentality as initiated by Johnson and Gavin Williamson in particular … aka ‘ the go away and shut up’ syndrome. Stamps foot (picture the Haribo advert if you live in the UK) “No, I’m never, never going to talk to them again…ever”.
To answer your question, Thomas, there is no valid reason. My view is that someone in the UN really needs to give the UK an order to provide everyone – and not just Russia – will all the ‘evidence’ they keep claiming is being kept under wraps for security reasons. But presumably such an edict would be subject to a vote which the UK would of course veto …for security reasons. It really does seem to be an impasse.
Of course it is a joke.
But the right question is: why now?
There is a general parliamentary debate about the Skripal affair next Wednesday – i.e. horrid Russia = chemical weapons.
There has been plenty written about a false flag planned by the British in Idlib to coincide with the likely Syrian attack there. According to Thierry Meyssan of Voltaire.net the British military contractors Olive Group are planning something really nasty there (involving kidnapped children and chlorine) to be used as a casus belli for the next “Coalition” attack on Syria.
So if they are going to do it, why not just before the Parliamentary debate?
As with Libya the British and French won’t put their own heads much above the parapet but expect America to obey the propaganda pressure. A war against Russia would also be very expensive. Looks as if the Americans fall for it again. Trump wants out but the Pentagon Generals see that as a retreat so they’ll disobey him just as they used to do with Obama.
Watching the UNSC proceedings today, the US appear to have shifted the goalposts even more in favour of military intervention by them and their allies. Haley was basically stating that if ANY military assault on Idlib results in deaths of ‘civilians’ the Syrians and Russians will face the consequences … not even focusing on chemical weapons as an excuse. I couldn’t believe the hypocrisy when you think of US activities in Libya and Iraq, and specifically Mosul latterly, and Raqqa in the case of Syria.
Stephen McIntyre on Twitter asks an interesting question: why did the UK give visas to people who they believe to be GRU officers, while denying visas to Skripal’s closest family?
The perfume bottle saga is interesting. Liquids cannot be brought on planes except in plastic bags. Certainly not in sealed boxes. Nothing proves this perfume came from Russia. The most likely use of this perfume bottle was as a present for Yulia, whose birthday was 17 March. It was sent to the house (by MI6) in the expectation both would sniff it and croak. But suspicious Sergei threw it out in the rubbish in its box. MI6 was of course trying to stop Sergei leaving the UK for Russia to sell what he knew about the Steele dossier he worked on with his handler Miller. Yulia was the GRU go-between arranging his trip out. She had to be stopped as well from talking. The parcel probably came with Russian stamps on it so they could blame Russia. Since Sergei threw it out MI6 had to try again and spray them in town. They succeeded. Then MI6 had to explain how they got poisoned so they put some on the doorknob. Meanwhile the bottle was found in the rubbish by Rowley. Both Sergei and Yulia are being held against their will by MI6 and it is time somebody demanded they be represented by a lawyer. If the two Russians photographed had anything to do with it they were delivering the false passport for Sergei to get out. Unfortunately MI6 got to him first.
There were press stories of Sergei being upset because Julia had forgotten to bring his favourite buck wheat. She then is said to have arranged for a friend to fly from Moscow with the buck wheat. The fact it appeared in several outlets suggests a briefing. It was an odd story.
Story being the operative word.
If Russians entered the UK with Russian passports, they had visas. Visa applications contain full name, address, date of birth, passport number, profession etc. Why was this information not released? It would enable the Russian police to find these people immediately. Clearly that is not what the UK govt wants. It just wants to bang on about Russia and prepare the public for a new false flag gas attack in Syria.
Until I see irrefutable evidence (and definitely not just HMG’s word for it) of Russian passports, associated visas and travel from Moscow I shall believe nothing we are told. What I have established from online research is that there is currently (and I am presuming it was so in March) an incoming daily flight to Gatwick from Kiev (Turkish Airlines) which arrives at Gatwick at roughly the same time as the Moscow flight. Ukrainian nationals coming to the UK have to have a British visa so photographs of them could be obtained from that application. Whatever the purpose of their journey here, it wouldn’t look good to identify these men as Ukrainian but it would be VERY beneficial to say that they were Russian. We know the UK Government lies so why not lie about this? Let’s face it, Ukraine aren’t likely to hold their hands up and say ‘Hang on, they’re Ukrainian not Russian’.
What strikes me is the confidence of these operatives. The Dubai assassination squad on the Hamas official consisted of 20+ odd people (non permissive environment, sophisticated surveillance environment etc). The team that attempted to kill Meshaal in Amman was 5 people. Heck even the Bangkok bombings of 2012 had a 4 to 8 person “Iranian” team. My point being actions such as these require teams to guarantee success.
Assuming intelligence agencies follow pretty similar op patterns, either the “Russians” were very confident of their target, access and contingency planning and felt 2 ppl were enough or we are not being told the total extent of evidence that suggests state sponsorship or the story is bollox.
The govt wants us to believe the Russian state sent 2 guys, who rocked up to Salisbury after a quick recce, daubed Novichok on door handles then scarpped that same day back to “Russia”.
Perhaps that Novichok assassination document gave up more clues than we’d been led to believe.
Yes, I had precisely the same thought. There would surely have to be a surveillance squad in addition to the hit squad, and quite a lot of traffic between the two, very likely mediated by a comms / operation management squad. Two people is simply not enough!
Russian agents entering the UK on Russian passports? Ridiculous notion, it’s probably the first rule of the security agencies to disguise yourself. To me, these two look to be Bulgarian or Romanian, but they could be Israeli or of other nationality too.
I’ve been trying – with difficulty – to identify from the shop window cctv the logo on the baseball cap worn by ‘Boshirov’. I looked at various football logos and the nearest I have come to so far is the logo for Bulgaria – a distinctive white circle (almost like a simple daisy) with a black centre and black segments round the edge. Probably a red herring but…?
You sleuth you! 🙂
FS – that maybe and I’m always up for a challenge, but some would say (myself included) that I really need to get out more!
J
Obviously the whole „Novichok“ saga is a (rather primitive) PSYOP to demonize Russia (punishment / political warfare for interference in Syria) .. when logic and analytical thinking is applied, the whole „case“ quickly falls apart … but I would like to add my two cents regarding one aspect of the „evidence“ the MET has released which (as far as I know) has not been investigated here:
THE PERFUME BOTTLE
From the press-release (Neil Basu):
“Charlie“ told police he found a box he thought contained perfume in a charity bin on Wednesday, 27 June. Inside the box was a bottle and applicator. He tried to put the two parts together at his home address on Saturday, 30 June, and in doing so got some of the contents on himself. He said Dawn had applied some of the substance to her wrists before feeling unwell.
„PREVIOUSLY, during a search of Charlie’s home address in Muggleton Road on 10 July a small box labelled as Nina Ricci Premier Jour was recovered from a rubbish bag in the kitchen. On 11 July a small glass bottle with a modified nozzle was found on a kitchen worktop. Tests undertaken at DSTL established the bottle contained a significant amount of Novichok.“
The MET also released a photo of the „small box“ allegedly containing the perfume bottle. But what is shown here, is not a normal perfume cardboard-box but a paper/foil-material shaped like a book-cover, with a flap, for a tiny perfume sample (placed in the middle): 5,5 ml – 0.17 oz (which was certainly not wrapped in cellophane). (Normal perfume-bottle sizes are 30, 50 or 100 ml).
So „Charlie‘s“ story about wanting to give this perfume as a gift to Dawn Sturgess sounds rather absurd. It gets even more absurd because conventional perfume-bottles are being sold as „vaporisateur-sprays“, there is no need for the customer to „put parts together“.
His testimony is not credible at all (he told the Guardian (or they simply claimed) he could not remember where he found the „sealed box“ but told a different story to the police. He said it did not smell like perfume, was unpleasant (and yet Dawn applied it to her wrist?)
It is also kind of strange that the police discovered this phony „box“ (in the rubbish) on July 10 but missed the small glass-bottle on a kitchen-worktop, „found“ one day later“. (Who „planted“ it there? CT-police? MI6?)
It gets even more strange because the perfume-bottle (with an enormous, ridiculous „applicator“ attached to it) shown in the photo the MET published, could not possibly have been in the paper-wrap (called „box“) they found in the rubbish, simply because it is too big.
And – of course – the only source „establishing“ that this ominous mini-bottle contained „Novichok“ is Porton Down …
Conclusion: THERE WAS NO NERVE-AGENT (A-234) POISONING in SALISBURY (it is all innuendo, massive suggestion and constant repetition .. much more likely is this:
https://drugabuse.com/library/fentanyl-overdose/ and the „BZ“ (which – conveniently produces amnesia…)
Recommendation: Do watch the (manipulative) BBC documentary with the misleading title: „Skripal Poisoning: Medics reveal fears“ about the Salisbury hospital-staff closely and you can see it clearly (together with all the other contradicting evidence)….
Since we’re reading, OffGuardian, we’re probably inclined to easily believe that the whole Skirpal saga is something made up by British Intelligence. Fortunately for our beliefs the facts and the holes in the official story are on our side. One thing is for sure – Either the British or the Russian tradecraft has declined in observable amounts. The same sloppiness is observed in the alleged Litivinenko assassination. One has to wonder why the Russians would go to such trouble to kill Skirpal or Litivinenko and not try to kill William Browder. I also wonder why fleeing Russian oligarchs go to Britain when it seems like half of them die. .
14 deaths out of 700 Russian ‘sterling’ visas issued in recent years.it doesn’t seem a lot considering these are Mafia type gangsters. Pots of money for London Society and the Tory Party. All laundered thefts from the Russian State safely salted away in British tax havens. You bet the Government has ‘moved slowly’ to stem blatant laundering!
Funny how the GRU always target people who are almost completely unknown in Russia, weren’t very senior when they were there, and have long since outlived their usefulness to British Intelligence. And they always carry out these plots in Britain.
Me’nwhile in the real world of Truth, Faith and Courage:
Maaloula, Syria | September 2018 |
Restoration of the Church of St George
The police claim that the two were seen on CCTV at the railway station at 11:48 am and at (or near) the Skripal home by 11:58 ie 10 minutes later. The distance appears to be about 1.2 miles which means they would have to travel at about 7 mph to cover the distance in that time (not allowing for time to cross busy roads). Normal walking is about 3.5 mph and jogging about 5.5 mph so they would have had to run all the way. These guys must be superhuman to do that without breaking into a sweat.
of course, they are “GRU operatives from Putin’s Russia”
i expect an imminent release of information from the Police ,under huge political pressure, but have held to their description,havent they????, of the 2 men as Russians ( unlikely agreed as expressed elsewhere here and more probably paid Ukrainians ,Bulgarians) rather than ” Russian agents”, to rectify these ruinous time-lines for the official narrative …..something like-“new CCTV discovered evidence that Yulia returned home briefly much later say around 12 as she had forgotten something ……blah blah blah” It cant be left as it is.Will follow all these brilliant articles and comments over coming days ….as the best site out there….
Here’s information from the OTHER police report.
“So, Boris–”
“Wait, I’m supposed to be Ruslan.”
“I though I was him . . . who am I then?”
“You’re, um . . . oh, just look in your fake Russian passport.”
“Oh. Right. I’m Alexi.”
“Okay. So we get off the plane and go through the photo booths. Keep in step so we can go through different booths at EXACTLY the same second.”
“You’re kidding, right, Bor– Ruslan? Have you ever tried to get two people off a plane at exactly the same time?”
(Later)
“So this is the hotel room. Pretty crappy. We have much better in Moscow.”
Well, sure, Alexi, but you know how cheap GRU, or OGPU, or KGB or whoever is . . . come to think of it, we’d better have a look at the stuff, you know, make sure they gave us the right one.”
“Stuff? What stuff? . . . Oh. You mean the . . . PERFUME.”
“Da. The . . . PERFUME. Hmm. Seems to work okay. Right then. Off to . . . where is it again?”
“Salisbury . . . You know, Alexi, I can’t understand why we didn’t just kill this Skripal guy in prison. I mean, the guy’s a filthy traitor, why did we turn him over to the dickheads?”
“Indeed, Ruslan, and why do we have to kill him now, eight years later?”
“Oh well, I suppose Vladimir Vladimirovich knows what he’s doing.”
(later)
“Job done then, Alexi. PERFUME duly smeared. Or sprayed. Whatever. On the doorknob. Good job!”
“So what do we do with the empty bottle?”
“Ah, see, that’s the cleverest part of the plan! I brought another bottle!”
“What for?”
“Well see, we dump the empty in this convenient bin . . . now the other one’s still all wrapped up. We leave it in this other bin here, where it won’t get emptied and will remain unaffected by rain, sun, wind or anything else. Nobody will notice it for six weeks or so, and then some unfortunate drunk will grab it and . . . kablooey! Total confusion!”
My own theory about the Skripal case is that Skripal and his daughter are both MI5 agents who both agreed to take part in a staged assassination attempt on them. And so no chemical substances were ever used in this operation.
Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey is also an MI5 agent (and one who has mysteriously disappeared from view), as are Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowely. Sturgess (or whoever the agent is) is not dead. If she had died there would have been media coverage of her funeral. There wasn’t. There was only a single video clip of a hearse with a coffin in it going through a gate to some sort of “compound”. There were no onlookers or family members present.
The whole operation was designed to serve as a false flag in order to enable the UK and US to sanction Russia and further demonise it for wanting to be independent geopolitically and not a poodle of the US like the UK and most of Europe is.
Simon, your idea has the elegance of total simplicity. Of course! They are all members of the Whitehall cast.
One thing I am in absolutely no doubt about is that there was no nerve agent used in salisbury. End of.
Now you see that does make sense.
Sounds good to me.
We can now start to draw up a list of corrupt public officials knowingly promulgating false information, wasting the taxpayers’ money and inflaming international sentiment for no good reason whatsoever.
Sadiq Khan; Neil Basu; the CPS.
A few BBC scriptwriters; Theresa May and Boris Johnson; no doubt some professional liars on Waterloo Bridge.
I want to see their passport data page scans and their UK visa scans. I’d suggest that the names given to the media ARE false and different to the names they travelled under to and from the UK. That way, the Russians get left in the dark until they trawl through their records, rather than being given the passport/visa/finger scans by the British. These guys might well be the hit squad but who they were working for? Not Russia or they’d have travelled in from another country. The narrative is all bullshit.
Totally agree, the British government can release these details if they have them. Of course they would appear not have this info otherwise, as you say, why not publish and damn any other theories.
If they had it why not confront the Russians with it at the UNSC. They didn’t so they pretty clearly don’t have it or any other factual evidence.
The whole affair is a joke really. A perfect example government conspiracy deception!
Two Russians – if they are indeed Russian – obtain visas from the UK consulate to visit the UK. So what? Ah, but they came to the UK armed with a deadly nerve gas only made and available in Russia and poisoned an ex-Russian double agent, and his daughter. Q. What was the motive for this? A. Putin just likes killing people. Okay. Q.How do you know that these two male persons were commissioned by the Russian state to carry out this assassination? A. Just trust us.
Q. Given that Sergei Skripal was a double agent he obviously and had betrayed many of his comrades, it would seeem that he would have made many enemies. Could possibly be a revenge attack by private, non-state actors possibly exacting revenge for the death of members of their family. A. No, it was done under Putin’s authority. Q. How do you know this? A. We just know. Q.Could those two ‘Russians’ have possibly have been businessmen or tourists. A. Guffaws of laughter.
And on, and on it goes. The anti-Russian rhetoric is being hyped up across the whole, media, political, surveillance and spy class. Along with sanctions there is an obvious push toward greater and greater confrontation whose end result can only be conflict at various levels.
”The State Department’s announcement on August 8 that the US government was going to impose sweeping new economic sanctions on Russia over the still mysterious and unresolved Skripal Affair was a truly fateful one. The famous Doomsday Clock of The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists should have immediately been moved forward to one minute to midnight on receipt of the news. (It already is set at only two minutes to the midnight that signifies catastrophic global thermonuclear war.)
For the lesson of history is a clear one: Such sanctions do far worse than prevent constructive dialogue and efforts to settle major differences of policy and interest between great nations. When they are seen as an existential threat to the very existence of that nation, they drive the targeted country’s government to consider all-out war.
That is exactly how the trans-oceanic total war between the United States and Japan – the very first and so far thankfully only war that has seen the use of nuclear weapons against cities and human populations – began. And it was the United States that triggered it.”
MARTIN SIEFF | 21.08.2018 | FEATURED STORY – Strategic.Org.com
One Minute to Midnight: Latest US Sanctions Propel Nations Towards Risk of War
This lunatic policy will be the death of us, quite literally.
The Luke Harding piece is instructive, inasmuch as, rather like the BBC’s ‘reconstruction’ of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance, it points the way to what the UK security services want the public to focus on, and what they wish to distract from.
The application of Novichok to the Skripal’s door handle, despite being ludicrous, is to be retained. Why? 1/ This fiction doesn’t require the Skripal’s to have knowledge of who attacked them. 2/ Attention is drawn away from the centre of Salisbury/the park bench, which is the most probable location for the atrack to have taken place. It doesn’t really matter if the public laughs at the official account, so long as it’s pushed by the media and discussion centres on it, that’s a win.
The most preposterous part of this doubling-down is, of course, the fact of a bottle of Novichok being dumped a ridiculously long way from the Skripal’s front door, but minutes from the park bench they were found slumped on.
Given the timing of this ‘news’ that Putin himself gave the Ok to assisinate Sergei, ‘news’ that could have been released weeks if not months ago is there any doubt this is designed to put pressure on the US to follow through with war against Assad when reports begin to arrive of the use of ‘chemical’ weapons. It becomes Mr P’s MO. France and the UK are keenest on a new war. This furore will pressure Trump to strike back big time the minute the report comes of ‘suspected chemical weapon use’. The two unknown men are the first sally in a new war led by the weakest leader in the world, Mrs May.
Dmitry Orlov of ClubOrlov wrote a great article about this (for patrons only via PATREON). One commenter wrote something quite interesting that should be taken into account:
“Andrew Wilson
2While I do not think that this is in any sense ‘real’ there’s one point that I should make. At British airports we have a system for surveillance/identification just before passing out of air-side, past customs. This is a set of gates in the form of a short corridor. There’s 4 abreast of these at each place I have seen them. The two guys were walking through adjacent corridors. Now, I still think it unlikely that they’d both pass at exactly the same moment past the camera in the tunnel given the crowd of people using these gates at peak times, but it is possible. Whatever has been faked, the photos are likely real.”
To which Dmitry responded:
“Yes, and these characters walked through the SAME gate at the same time.”
Followed by this response by Andrew Wilson.
“No, they walked through adjacent gates at the same time. I’d say that you have to have seen and gone through these gates to get the point. The corridors/gates are identical in manufacture and, as can be seen, the cameras are set up in pairs. Only one person can enter each gate at a time, the doors close barring entry. It seems to me that getting into the corridor and walking through at exactly the same time is unlikely at a busy time of day, but it is possible.”
Further down:
“Andrew Wilson
Here’s a thing, anyone who has been through a British airport in the past few years will recognise the environment where the pics were taken of these gentlemen. There’s so many aspects of the whole Skripal tale that are simply incredible, in the truest sense of the word. Those who are arguing that the case is fake, a skein of lies, does their cause no favours by focusing, incorrectly, upon one area of the tale that can be easily demonstrated to be real. We do not know who these guys are, we do not know what happened to any of the stakeholders in the case, but it is simple to sow doubt among the minds of the ‘undecided’ by showing that all the hullabaloo around these images and the timestamps was itself false, mistaken.”
The BBC have just clarified this point (Jeremy Vine Show …and no, I’m not a regular listener!) Two guys, parallel corridors, exactly the same time …sorted! What’s not to doubt about the
CIA, sorry, BBC?This Andrew Wilson claims that “they’d both pass at exactly the same moment past the camera in the tunnel given the crowd of people using these gates at peak times”.
Where is this “crowd of people” ? In both photos, the corridor / chute behind the photographed individuals is empty – not a solitary soul behind them. What ‘crowd of people’ then ? Why isn’t there a ‘crowd of people using these gates’ ?
Oh what timing….EU just extended sanctions against Russia yesterday too…..
Yup, the saga is awoken and kicking.
Some minore hints.
Intresting, isnt it, I read some good coments regarding what do we have in front of us, really, look at the images, witch I see is two “photos” of an image on another screen, and the angle comes from the fact the “photographer” have moved His/Hers ( to be an tiny but PC this days so nobody gets offended ), camera (obscura), so the angle is not the same in the 2 images we sees, witch in that I mean the images witch is their prof, tells me nothing, the day/time, etc isnt there, no location of the premisses in either sign nor paisted into the image thru data programs so the location is clear, in case of issues as public safty as an fire, etc, or hart attack, but the images says nothing.
Two.
Why on earth are then the “photos” of an image taken from an airport ternminal gate ways, uses with an time frame attached to it, to make it to what, an CCTV image, etc, or faked images to make acusations, based upon previous acusations witch even makes an Swiss chees look like solid mass and have the weight off lead.
huh
Again, of course, since we all are either nazis, reightwinged, hehe, or putin trolls, the saga continues, and we await the next eh….. moves regarding this solid investigation made by mor….. police, are you kidding me, the police whom cant find their own asshole in an flod lighted stadium, to call them maggots is an diwnright insult to maggots, pardone moi, maggots, but even they get it, I am not shure the mor…. sorry the Police force will do, yeah its an natural law isnt it, low life scums allways tend to cluster, shit atracts more shit, with shit in and shit out we have an genuine freak show, live, in real time.
Third.
Whom thiis people are,, we may know soon, but this, is hillarious.
Thanks, and dont blame us, you pooped on your self.
Forth.
Where did I put the bl… popcorn….
peace
There was a third man. Putin but you can’t see him in the photo because he took a Novichuk invisibility drink. But no doubt British X-ray sleuths will uncover him given another six months.
My guess is that the people responsible for this whole theatre are laughing themselves sick at our expense. None of it is even supposed to be credible – it’s a wind-up. The aim is simply to keep banging the PR drum Russia = Chemical Weapons.
Sergei Skripal is probably somewhere safe, being hidden from the Mueller commission, and as it is going to be a long haul, asked for his daughter to keep him company. The unfortunate Bailey is keeping an eye on them. The three of them are getting really good at crosswords and have watched every box set known to man.
There never was any novichok.
As someone posted in reply to me: the gentleman in the photo from Zizzis, the day before the non-poisoning – who many took to be Miller – looks more like Alexander Skripal. Perhaps his dead son is also getting good at Sudoku! The whole thing is a Novijoke farce and insult to the intelligence.
I hope one of the box sets was Sandbaggers, to help them keep a grip on reality. sarc off
Following is from Marcel Sardo twitter. Reminds me of Clinton’s reset button. They couldn’t get that translation right either. Sloppy work by MI6. They had all summer to get it right. Stalin would have had the lot put in front of a firing squad. Likely they will get promoted.
@marcelsardo
Another hint in today’s #SkripalHoax – The name BOshirov is uncommon in Russia. The Name BAshirov is.
Now here is the thing: An A is actually expressed like a O in Russian – for me a clear Indication those names were pulled out of some asses unknown of Russian language details.
elena
Only if it is a typing mistake. I found 2 Ruslan BOshirovs so far, one graduated from the Tomsk University, the other was on the Uzbek terror list
okimova
Then we should focus on the Uzbek Guy. Don’t you think?
My wild guess is that they may well be Chechen Mafia, part of, or legacy from, Boris and Badri’s (Berezovsky and Patarkatsishvili) terror network from the “Great Mob War”. To be clear, they would be in the employ of MI6, or the Old Boy network I call the Dearlove Cabal …that includes Steele, Miller and very plausibly Sergei Skripal …and nothing to do with the Kremlin.
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/soc.culture.ukrainian/RxBODvhVEXk
[original article 404: not found …luckily someone archived it.]
Yes I’m thinking Chechens, Ukrainians, Georgians. 2 guys pretending to be Russians.
Russian GRU agents traveling on Russian passports …gimme a break! But then, the Russians do smuggle coke from embassy to embassy with the federation flag on the package! And every bottle of Novijoke comes stamped “Made in Russia”!
Chechens, Ukrainians, Georgians, a couple of guys from Langley …I’m not a gambler: but I’d put a few quid on very long odds – Chechens.
This CCTV mystery is solved: parallel gates at Gatwick International arrivals: https://twitter.com/bleidl/status/1037540166020280320
The other holes stand prominently, apart from others like why was most Salisbury CCTV imagery never released, when can anybody independent film both Skripals or why find these two “Ruskies” only months later etc.?
Take a look at this:
The flipped-photograph meme has come alive again!
Meanwhile in the real world 5 September، 2018, courtesy SANA:
Moscow: Fight against terrorists in Syria will continue until eliminating them totally
US Senator Richard Black expressed joy over the return of security to Syria, hoping that Syria would eliminate what has remained of terrorist cells.
Senator Balck, In a press statement at Jdidet Yabous crossing point, said that the whole world has to be glad over the victories achieved by Syria.
He added that during the visit to Syria he felt the Syrian people’s love for Syrian Arab Army and leadership who maintained the unity of the country and restored security to it.
The American Senator pointed out that when Syria and its allies were fighting Daesh (ISIS) terrorist organization, the Western intelligences in UK, US, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey sent support, orders and funding to the terrorists.
Mr. Black praised the security and stability situation in the areas he visited and the role of reconciliation sponsored by the Syrian state and the return of locals to their homes.
He’s American. And he’s a Senator-in the West Virginia state senate. Too bad he isn’t in the US Senate. Maybe he will be some day. He would certainly be an improvement on West Virginia’s current duo.
He’s a member of the senate of Virginia.
Shh, or someone from Langley, Virginia, will be paying him a visit.
You would think Russians like these guys would have their luggage thoroughly searched by UK Customs. They would have found the novichok filled perfume bottles if they had done that.
Oh well, guess we know for next time.
This Portonchok substance has incredible properties. I’m looking forward to watching the BBC Horizon science programme about it ;o)
Monbiot (of course) attacking anyone who is asking questions or has doubts about the government jackanory.
A neat summary of his history of fake-posturing-establishmentarianism by J. Emersberg:
twitter.com/rosendo_joe/status/1037503619011096576
Joe could have included Monbiot’s chamioning of Al Nusra, and several other things.
Most of Monbiot’s respondents are rightwing now, which kind of shows how he has failed as a gatekeeper, yet I wish I could move on from being annoyed by this false man’s continuing platform.
one more link for the paper chain:
http://johnhelmer.net/the-new-allegations-in-the-skripal-case-and-the-standard-of-proof/#more-19679
More holes than a Swiss cheese. It amazes me how all this [including faked photo shopped] info was just waiting for September and the government’s returned from its summer break. Clearly the public tired as they are of these stories were not considered to be at risk.
Luke Harding predictably has his “Dime Detective” story ready to run where like a cracked record he churns out the same old disconnected memes we have heard for so long. If the people of Salisbury were to hope they could get their lives back to normal after all this nonsense their hopes have been clearly dashed by the feral media and their MI6 minders. While the related spooks, Miller and Steel evaporate from view along with the whereabouts of the Skripals like Novichok from the proverbial doorknob…
So the narratives faithfully rolled out by our erstwhile MSM question nothing and cover-up blatant faked images. Unless anyone was under any illusion that whole narrative was being cynically manipulated the Graun yesterday even described Skripal as a Russian defector! Quite how a pardoned double agent released from a Russian prison and exchanged in a spy swap is a defector I do not know. They sometime later corrected the error without stating the fact.
Meanwhile in the real world, Dr.Assad drives around in his Honda amid the traffic jams of newly Liberated Syria:
Meanwhile in the real world, Russia strikes NATZO assets in the battle for Idlib, the last stronghold of ISIS (Israel’s Surrogates In Syria). I am afraid St.Theresa of Westminster will fail to accomplish her humanitarian mission with taxpayers money alone: neither her Novijoke nor her White Helmets can save ISIS; she had better pray for a miracle instead:
https://twitter.com/RisboLensky/status/1037349069289598976
Pray along with St.Theresa and JC, this is what those evil Russians are up to in Syria; and the Novijoke seems unable to stop them. Only a miracle can now save ISIS:
All ye true Believers, beware those evil CW Russians, pray heed the warning of your true Brit St.Theresa and JC:
Thanks for your posts, vexarb. I posted the South Front video on the Guardian’s Politics Live blog, but they didn’t seem to appreciate it, for some unfathomable reason.
Unlike another recent occasion when they deleted a comment of mine, though, at least they left a sign of this one’s deletion with a ”This comment was removed by a moderator…”.
Clearly, I’m going up in the Guardian’s estimation.
:o)
It’s also great that all these CCTV photos of the assassins are so clear, when every other CCTV photo of every other person involved in the story has been a piece of fuzzy shit (cf woman with red bag). Isn’t it great that our fantastic security services occasionally get something right!!!
Hmmmmm….compare with exactly how many cctv photos there are of the Skripals…….
https://imgur.com/fWAovRq – this is an enhanced series of images of the woman with a red bag
Two western-owned Ukrainian assets, meandering round the English countryside by omnibus, Boris bike and wheelbarrow, making no attempt to conceal their identities while ostentatiously ensuring that they are clearly photographed in as many incriminating locations as possible…
By deception you may wage war.
Famous Mossad saying. Seeing that Israel is a Rothschild construct then when can suppose that the anglo-zionist are the instigators of such ruthless deception and lies.
Rocky and Bullwinkle any one.
How Orwellian the time we are living.
Arab semites never left the ME
Agreed. I smell Mossad involvement here. I suppose that makes me an anti-semite according to current hysterical mores… I’ll go and sit in the naughty corner.
Why now, when the CCTV ‘evidence’ must have been available for months? Just like the Douma pantomime and subsequent bombing of Syria, this is clearly setting the scene for a western assault on Idlib, possibly this weekend.
https://syrianobservatoryforhumanwrongs.wordpress.com/2018/07/09/an-idiots-guide-to-the-skripal-affair/
Exactly.
Love the prose in your “idiots guide….”.
Comments forum attached to Moon of Alabama’s post on the two photographs contains this interesting contribution from someone called “Norwegian”:
This is an obvious fabrication of evidence. What they did was to take 2 photos from the same tunnel using the same camera at different times, but with the camera rotated about 20 degrees between them (notice the slightly different fish-eye lens distortions). Afterwards they flipped one of the images horizontally and added time-stamps to the images, but forgot to change the times between them.
I reversed the above process, aligned the images and made a GIF animation to prove it, see https://postimg.cc/image/x1ixk7r4x/
These people are stupid.
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 5, 2018 5:29:46 PM | 45
They didn’t forget, it’s all deliberate. They love mashing their hoaxery in our face. I mean, come on, of course, it’s intentional.
I think the corridors the two guys walked down are jet bridges. If Aerflot flight SU2588 used only one jet bridge then the photos have to be fake. If they had two, then it would be a very strange coincdence. We need to find out.
Exit corridors at International Terminal (?) at Gatwick International Airport:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1570429,-0.1626642,2a,89.7y,192.36h,83.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5aRAGxER5MlF-9kpw8ZyRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Note the exit corridor at the far right corresponds with the one that appears in the photographs of the two men.
But where are the glass doors with the red circles (and the white bars) in the photos?
I know Gatwick really well, that’s not an exit tunnel, it’s a corridor to the broom cupboard!
They’re not jet bridges. Jet bridges don’t have an automatic barrier on them.
One of the foundations of the assertions being made by May and her sleazy friends is that Ryssua will not allow the extradition of citizens.
This is categorically untrue.
Like any state prizing its sovereignty Russia insists that there be real evidence-available to Russian courts-of those charged with crimes being legitimately suspected.
In other words if the UK wants to try these two men all that it has to do is to share the evidence it has of their involvement in crimes with Russian courts.
It is that simple. There is nothing in the Russian Constitution preventing the extradition of those accused of crimes, provided that they are not being charged with political offences.
The following-from the MoA site- is the source of this information:
“Here is an interesting side note, relating to the statement made by “Sue Hemming, the CPS director of legal services”
“We will not be applying to Russia for the extradition of these men as the Russian constitution does not permit extradition of its own nationals. Russia has made this clear following requests for extradition in other cases. Should this position change then an extradition request would be made.”
This is a blatant lie. Russia’s Constitution (available here in Russian states the following in Article 63, Section 2:
В Российской Федерации не допускается выдача другим государствам лиц, преследуемых за политические убеждения, а также за действия (или бездействие), не признаваемые в Российской Федерации преступлением. Выдача лиц, обвиняемых в совершении преступления, а также передача осужденных для отбывания наказания в других государствах осуществляются на основе федерального закона или международного договора Российской Федерации.
Which means (my own translation, but Google Translate is your friend if you do not believe me):
In the Russian Federation it is not permitted to extradite to other states individuals who are persecuted for their political beliefs, as well as for actions (or inaction) that are not deemed criminal in the Russian Federation. Extradition of individuals accused of committing a crime, as well as transfer of convicts to serve their sentences in other states, is performed on the basis of federal law or international agreements of the Russian Federation.
I must confess that I am not up on the most current version of Russian criminal law, but I believe “attempted murder utilizing a banned chemical weapon” does still qualify as a crime over there, and, moreover, is not considered “political beliefs”. But, of course, an official extradition requests would entail also handing over the Crown’s evidence against the accused, which…well, clearly there is so much of it that the Crown just doesn’t wish to share any.”
Thanks to the poster Angry Panda at the MoA.
You read the wrong section of the Russian Constitution, Article 61 concerns Russian Citizens, Article 63 concerns political asylum to foreign nationals and stateless persons.
Статья 61
Гражданин Российской Федерации не может быть выслан за пределы Российской Федерации или выдан другому государству.
Российская Федерация гарантирует своим гражданам защиту и покровительство за ее пределами.
Article 61
A citizen of the Russian Federation may not be deported from Russia or extradited to another State.
The Russian Federation shall guarantee to its citizens protection and patronage abroad.
Статья 63
Российская Федерация предоставляет политическое убежище иностранным гражданам и лицам без гражданства в соответствии с общепризнанными нормами международного права.
В Российской Федерации не допускается выдача другим государствам лиц, преследуемых за политические убеждения, а также за действия (или бездействие), не признаваемые в Российской Федерации преступлением. Выдача лиц, обвиняемых в совершении преступления, а также передача осужденных для отбывания наказания в других государствах осуществляются на основе федерального закона или международного договора Российской Федерации.
Article 63
The Russian Federation shall grant political asylum to foreign nationals and stateless persons according to the universally recognized norms of international law.
In the Russian Federation it shall not be allowed to extradite to other States those people who are persecuted for political convictions, as well as for actions (or inaction) not recognized as a crime in the Russian Federation. The extradition of people accused of a crime, and also the handover of convicts for serving sentences in other States shall be carried out on the basis of the federal law or the international agreement of the Russian Federation.
Yes, the extradition would not be excluded in principle by the Russian constitution. Aber es heißt eben auch: “Выдача лиц, обвиняемых в совершении преступления, а также передача осужденных для отбывания наказания в других государствах осуществляются на основе федерального закона или международного договора Российской Федерации.” Russia does not have an extradition treaty with Great Britain (there are also many people Russia would want to have extradited from Britain – mainly exile Russians – and Britain does not extradite them). So, I think Britain and Russia agree that Russia won’t extradite the suspects. But Russia has been asking Britain for evidence for a long time, so that it can use them in a trial in Russia. A criminal case had been opened for the poisoning in Russia some time ago (probably mainly because victims are Russian citizens, but if there is now evidence about Russian suspects, Russia will probably use it.
If May wants to get on her high horse: it does well to bear in mind that Londongrad was set up as a safe haven for illicit Soviet dollars (it was the 1950s) precisely because we do not have an extradition treaty with Russia. It was done to protect the oligarchs …one can hardly turn round now and use it to smear the Russians: can she!
If my memory serves me correctly, the Russian constitution was written with the help of the Yanks. (What us, interfere in another countries politics? Na.) At the time their man Yeltsin was in power. That is the reason given the president was made a powerful head of state and I would imagine that is why this clause was inserted into the constitution. Correct me if I’m wrong. Unintended consequences.
The cop on the left may pass fleetingly as a Russian in a bad b-movie with that daft goatee beard and that Hollywood moulded expression but the cop on the right is a 100% Brit!
Is this another Brexit distraction I wonder?
You know that how? Do you have evidence proving these guys are Brits?
They could be Ukrainians. Highly likely so. 🙂
Yes, I can see Ukrainians travelling directly from Russia to the UK using false names and false Russian passports and visas so as to implicate Russia further in this sorry Novichok perfume saga.
BTW Yukies, how’s the Nordstream II gas pipeline opposition going? Still trying to scare the Germans into backing off from it?
This is the most hilarious, convoluted false-flag hoax ever. How do people keep up with it all?
We don’t. That is why the British government keeps on stoking it up as though Treason N Mayhem was desperate for increased TV ratings.
Those two men in the CCTV video, look suspiciously like two cops posing as BAD RUSSIANS! It’s almost like a bad Hollywood B-Movie, deliberate ethnic profiling, yes make it obvious stand in front of CCTV camera but hey you missed a trick, where’s the fat pot-bellied middle-aged bald man with the ridiculous pony tail? If you don’t want to appear conspicuous, why not pair them up with male and female, not two gay couples from the police force. Our government is an embarrassment, they do not represent the interest of its people, instead they pick battles they can’t finish. Sad really.